November 25, 2025 • 26 mins
Jesus said in Matthew 11:28-30, 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” It is no surprise that with all of our amazing technology, we are more stressed out, struggling with mental health and ultimately, disconnected from each other and God! in this episode of K&C, after spending 6 weeks with the Amish, Benedictine Monks and his family without any connection to screens and devices, Social Media Influencer, Carlos Whittaker helps us reconnect to what, or rather who, is most important!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to Kingdom and Culture where we do our best
to intersect truth with grace and seeing the kingdom of
God advance. Uh, today we're gonna talk a little bit
about connecting with God. Jesus said in Matthew 11:28-30, go
online to seek all meaning of life and argue ferociously
(00:35):
with those with whom you disagree, and then you will
find true peace.
Now before all the people in the audience stop and
go wait that's heretical, that's not what Jesus said well
I want to say you're right because that's not what
he said and I'm trying to use humor to outline
the fact that Jesus actually said the opposite. He said
in Matthew 11:28.
(00:56):
Come to me all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon
you and learn from me, for I am gentle and
humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls,
for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
So to help us unpack this often quoted, but I
think often misunderstood passage of scripture is Carlos Whittaker. He's
(01:19):
the author of Reconnected.
And how to human. He's also a fellow podcaster and
I'll be honest, he is a really cool online influencer,
social media influencer. I don't know whatever titles you want
to add to that, but Carlos, welcome. Good to have you.
What did I miss? What do you want to pack
in there as people just get to know who you
are on radio and on podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, first of all, thanks for, thanks for having me. Uh, I,
I think the first thing people need to know besides
all the great.
Nice things you just said about me is that like,
like I may live in Nashville, Tennessee, but I'm a
SoCal guy. So like when, when I, when I got
an email or my assistant was like, hey, Kwave wants
to do it, I was like, K wave, you mean
the K wave that I was listening to when I
(02:03):
was the worship pastor at Sandals Church in Riverside, California,
the 909 before it came to 951, like, like, like
I'm like, I'm like in man. I'm IE to the
core and uh, and so anyway I.
I, I love the ministry of K-wave. I love what
you guys have done for so long, and, um, I
also am grateful that you're, you know, asking me to
(02:24):
just even partake a little bit in this conversation where
we have found ourselves as a kingdom culture, I think,
accidentally reading the scripture the way that you were jokingly
reading it at the beginning of that little segment where,
you know, come to me.
Who are weary, uh, and find me online and maybe
(02:45):
you can find a little bit of peace there. No,
like that, that's not, that's not what Jesus said and
so I, I'd love to dive in a little bit
in this conversation because, you know, I actually get the
honor of, and we'll talk about this a little bit,
but I get, I get the honor of being Jesus'
hands and feet in a secular culture outside the walls
of the church, um, and I'm telling you, I'm telling you,
(03:07):
I'm telling you.
Christians need to understand that the world is watching the
world is watching how they treat each other. The world,
the world is watching them devour each other, and I
am getting the questions from the world going like, hey,
you like you're a part of that Christian thing like help,
help us understand. So it is so vital this conversation
that we're gonna have today.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, and if anybody's well people that are watching, you
can follow Carlos on on Instagram just Carlos Whittaker um.
If you have and or do follow Carlos, you, you
intersect with both and you, I've seen you offend both
sides of the aisle, Christians, non-Christians, you've lost followers over
it and actually it makes me go this guy is
(03:49):
real and it doesn't mean we always agree whether you
or me or whoever else online it means though you
have a conversation.
And you bring people to the table to have that conversation.
So yeah, we're I'm, I'm excited to jump in on
this um so like you just mentioned, people misunderstand scripture,
misquote scripture, think that they can find peace and or
meaning in the midst of what I would call unhealthy
(04:12):
or toxic conflict, but uh as you mentioned, it's no
news that American society is overwhelmed with overstimulation of information online.
Um, probably not from books as much as online. Uh,
in fact, probably good to go read a book or two,
but you recently participated in a real-life documentary with the Amish.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I did.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
That's first of all, who gets to
do that?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, I know. I'm I'm actually, I, I lived my
wife's dream. I got to live with her, who, who
she dreams of living with every day, the Amish
Speaker 1 (04:46):
that seriously, and so there's, it's this documentary called Reconnected
and so uh can you just uh talk a little
bit about that.
And catch our audience up to speed with your experience,
how and why you sought to go into that endeavor,
kind of what we've just mentioned, but what, yeah, what
led you to say, hey, I'm gonna go spend a
(05:07):
month with the Amish connect myself to some things to
figure out my, my vital signs and see if I'm
a better man by the end of it, which I'm
kind of, I don't want to get the cart ahead
of the horse here so I'm gonna let you talk.
So yeah, why'd you do that?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, thanks so much. Yeah, you know, I've got a
book and a documentary called Reconnected, um, and, and the
subtitle is How Seven Screen-free Weeks with monks and Amish
Farmers Helped me recover the Lost Art of Being Human.
So there it is. You don't even have to read
the book or watch the documentary. You got it all
right there. Like it's the longest subtitle on planet Earth,
(05:40):
but it explains exactly what.
Happened and you know what, what the kind of the,
the genesis of this experiment for me was a couple
of years ago, you know, I got a screen time
notification that we all get on Sundays that tells you
how many hours a day and minutes a day you've
averaged staring at your screen and mine was 7 hours
and 23 minutes a day, which was shocking. Um, and
(06:01):
then I did the math and this is where, you know.
Your listeners can, the first thing I ask people to
do is do the math. Find out your screen time
and do the math. And here was what my math
told me. That equals 49 hours a week, which is
two entire cycles of the sun that I spend looking
at my phone, which also equals 100+ days a year.
(06:21):
Now listen to that for a 2nd. 100 days a year,
I'm literally non-existent, just staring at a screen, and if
I live to be 85 years old, I'll spend over
12 years of my remaining life.
Staring at my phone. So that was the genesis. I
said I can't do this anymore. I flew to LA,
got my brain scanned by a neuroscientist, then I left
(06:43):
the neuroscientist's office after my brain scan and cognitive memory testing,
and I moved in in the high desert of Southern
California with 20 Benedictine monks, and I lived with them
for 2.5 weeks. Then I, after then, there I flew
to um.
Um, Holmes County, Ohio, and I moved into an Amish
sheep farm, uh, with the Amish for 2.5 weeks. Then
(07:03):
I moved back home for 2.5 weeks and lived with
my family with no screens. I had no screens. They
still had screens. Then I flew back to LA, got
my brain rescanned, and and I'll, I'll go and say
this about the Italian, yeah, yes, there's, there's, you can
watch a documentary, you can see my brain scan results,
all kinds of things, crazy things changed.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
For the skeptics they'll need to, they'll wanna, they'll want
to look at all that, yeah, for sure,
Speaker 2 (07:25):
absolutely, um, but, but I think what, what hit me
first and was probably the most, um, jarring thing was
that after 3 days of not having my screen this
no longer became an experiment about a screen. It no
longer became an experiment about phone, it became an experiment
about oh my god.
Gosh, look at all of these lost art forms that
(07:48):
we have forgotten how to do that God has created us,
put inside of the fabric of our DNA to have
community with each other, to sit across from people that
we disagree with. Hey, believe it or not, if you
look at a picture of me, I'm not Amish. And
so guess what? When I sat across from Willis, my Amish, uh,
my new Amish best friend, we, we.
(08:10):
Vehemently disagreed about a whole lot of things. I tell
like my super conservative friends, you know, like I'd get super,
I'm talking about. I tell my friends all the time,
y'all are the most liberal Amish people I've ever met.
Like y'all, y'all think you're conservatives. No, man, like listen,
because there, there, there was, I mean, such a, obviously
they're Amish for a reason because they believe in conserving
(08:33):
this way of life, right? And so this is, here's
a beautiful thing.
I sat across from Willis, my new Amish best friend,
over 2.5 hour dinners. Like, we, we vehemently disagreed about
all sorts of things, but guess what? He became one
of my closest friends on planet Earth. Why? Because I
believe we broke bread together, we commune together, and these
(08:53):
screens have allowed us to basically be consumed in an
ecosystem of rage that God did not.
Create us for and so I'm just trying to help
people really try to live out the beatitudes and and
what Jesus is actually calling us to do.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Well, that's what we're hoping this short little podcast will
will lead us toward uh maybe you could say it
one way this just came to my mind to replace
your tablet with the table. Oh, that'll preach that'll
Speaker 2 (09:21):
preach put that on a t-shirt. I'm buying it right now.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, that's good. So again, without giving too many spoilers,
um you kind of touched on it, but what main
takeaway can you share with us with our audience about
how we can best disconnect from being online from our
cell phones, our computers, our tablets in order to better
connect with God and each other? What would be that?
(09:46):
What's the, what's the secret sauce?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah man, no, it's so good. Um well, the first
thing that I want to make sure that people understand is.
Exactly what you just said. I disconnected to reconnect. That's
why the documentary is called Reconnected because everyone was coming
up to me and going, dude, how was it when
you disconnected for two months? And I was like, actually
I reconnected. I plugged back in to the voice of God. I,
I would say the biggest thing for your listeners to
(10:09):
understand is there is no way on planet Earth that
you can clearly hear the voice of God and be
discipled by the voice.
Voice of God when you were spending 5 to 7
hours a day being discipled by podcasters and pundits and
all of the voices coming from your phone when I disconnected,
I reconnected with a booming voice of God that I
(10:31):
had not heard in years and it was such a
breath of fresh air into my lungs that, you know, I, I,
when I got my phone back, I'm now averaging 2
hours a day on my phone after.
Averaging 7 hours, that's 5 hours a day that I've
gained back into my life that, um, that you don't
have to go live with monks or go live with
(10:51):
the Amish in order to pull this off. And so,
Speaker 1 (10:54):
but I kind of want to do that now that
you've said it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Totally no, you know, it is, it's an introvert's dream.
I'll go ahead and, you know, be honest with you, but, but,
but even, you know, I, some other things that I
realized was like, you know.
I, I thought, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna have
my screen, like, you know, I'm just gonna be so bored, like,
what am I gonna be able to do? There, there
is so much life going on around us that God
has placed in front of us that we can be
(11:18):
caring and concerned for. So like when I was living
with the Amish, guess what? I didn't, I wasn't worried
about what was happening around planet, you know, on the
other side of the, the world that I was reading
on X, but I was concerned about Ms. Smith.
Out that she had a cancer diagnosis two farms over,
suddenly I'm like pouring into there and then I found
out that the postmaster, you know, uh, was having problems
with one of his kids, and I poured into there
(11:40):
and suddenly, man, I realized there is enough for us
to pray and be concerned about within 1 mile of
our home that the, the cares and the concerns of
the world, I don't know if we were actually designed.
With the capacity to consume and care about all the
things that are being presented in front of us, that
does not mean that those things aren't important. That does
(12:02):
not mean that we shouldn't care about those things. But
what I am telling you is what I realized is
there is so much directly around us in our family
and friends and church and just, just our community that
should be the place that most of our caring.
Hands in front of so that that was one of
the huge things I learned when I was with the
monks and the Amish.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
So two verses are coming to my mind. Sorry, my
pastor brain's going into mode here. John 15 where Jesus says, uh,
you know, um, plug into me basically, uh, connect with me, uh,
you know, I am the vine, you are the branches, and,
and so to be connected to Jesus and then the
second one I think of is Acts 1.
(12:41):
Where Jesus says, uh, go into all the world and
preach the gospel. Well, that's Matthew 28, excuse me, uh
you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, to the
ends of the earth. So it, it obviously Jesus wants
us to branch out.
But maybe there's something there of starting in that core
place at home with your neighbors, uh, with your community
(13:01):
and connecting together and from there you then together because
even Jesus said go two by two, he didn't say
go alone, don't be a lone ranger on the Internet,
so to speak, maybe connect with others and do it
together in community.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And yes, and when you uh when you do that,
when you, when you do it in community, when you,
you know, take the great commission and you, you know,
start going out to the ends of the earth, uh,
if you are truly connected in community close to where
you live, I believe that you will be so much more, um.
Uh, powerful when you, when you go out, you know what,
(13:38):
you can tell, you can tell people online or whatever
it is that aren't connected in true community at home
when they're out there just kind of like, you know,
wild wild west of the Internet, throwing their opinions here,
doing this, it's like you, you, you just have this
gut feeling like, but like, do they actually have any
friends at home? Like are they really this way at home?
And so, you know, I, I just think especially talking
(14:00):
about our screens when I did not look at a screen.
For 2 months. I will tell you, it was the
greatest 2 months of my adult life. Like I just
was like, the Lord created us to wonder about things
that we don't know. I mean, that was one thing
that immediately I realized, wow, we've lost the sense of wonder.
We no longer wonder about anything anymore because we can
(14:22):
find out the answer in 1 2nd. Well, guess what?
I had 2 months where I couldn't find out the
answer to the questions that I had. And guess what
I had to do? Wonder. Like it's this thing that.
It's been extinct for the last 10 years, one, but
I was able to do that again and there's all
of these beautiful things that God created us to do
that we no longer do anymore because we can get
the answers to things so quickly that that I, I
(14:44):
just think that we got to start reconnecting with some
of those lost art forms in order to truly be
who God has called us to be. Well,
Speaker 1 (14:50):
this next thing is not in my notes, so to speak,
but I'm going to say it anyway. You, one of
your recent stories, you were standing underneath the Big Dipper.
And you have a picture of you and the Big Dipper, dude,
I love that shot like I want to go now
take a picture with the Big Dipper. I can't hear
in SoCal because cloud cover and no stars, but when
(15:11):
I get to the stars next, that's it. I'm doing it.
It's, it is,
Speaker 2 (15:16):
it is, it, it, you know, and my, my, my
wife and I had spent 48 hours in the backcountry
in Montana and Wyoming camping, uh, no cell service, and,
and it was actually the harvest moon that had kind
of come over the horizon and it literally looked like a,
like a suburban with its bright lights flashing on our,
(15:36):
you know, on our campsite because it was so bright,
but all of these things.
That we forget are there for us to experience all
of the beauty of God's grand like you cannot stand,
look at that moon and see the Big Dipper and
not believe there's something bigger, something greater than you that
is out there and so yeah man, just get back
out there, touch the grass, take off your shoes, put
(15:59):
the phone down and uh and start getting some of
your life back.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well, and that leads into here's the irony.
So you're an online influencer. That's what you do now.
Also worship leader, you can do that if we had
a guitar and a fire pit, you'd probably pick it
up and start leading us.
Uh bro,
Speaker 2 (16:15):
if it, if it was late 1990s vineyard, I will
crush those songs on a guitar by Campfire.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Way to be self-aware, uh, but you, you, you're an
influencer to both believers and unbelievers like we talked about earlier,
so it obviously seems a little bit counterintuitive, um, or
maybe overly anti-cultural to totally abandon all online activity. We,
we have to engage the culture in that way.
Uh, but how might we find a balance between good
old fashioned in-person connection that we're talking about while still
(16:45):
being relevant both in person and online, and so what
tension do we need to manage between the online and, uh,
real life connection world?
You know, I, I,
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I, well, no, it is a tension, and I, it's
a tension that I walk in on a daily basis.
I mean, I freaking wrote the book called Reconnected about
not being on your screen for two months, and I
make a living talking to my screen, right? And so, um, I, I, I,
I just think that it, it's us learning.
To make sure that we are in charge of the
screen and the screen isn't in charge of us and
so most of my, most of my heart conversations aren't
(17:20):
online like like I, I used to spend so much
time arguing or trying to prove someone right and this
is just a question I ask everybody.
When is the last time that you met somebody that
you disagreed with online and your thumbs were able to
convince them to change their mind? Probably the answer is never.
So why are you wasting your energy doing that, um, online?
(17:42):
So what, what, what do I use my online presence
for now is encouragement. I, I, I, I try to not,
you know.
Use my online presence to like, you know, argue with people.
If people are mad at me, like you talked about
at the beginning, if somebody disagrees with me about something
and they come at me in my DMs and they're
like firing off a paragraph with their thumbs. You know
what I do every single time? I, I, I look
(18:03):
at what they say, and even though my heart wants, um,
to like reply back to them and like one up them,
I open up my camera every single time. I do
this multiple times a day. I open up my camera,
I aim it at me and I hit record and
I go, hey man.
I, I just wanted you to see me. This is Carlos,
the guy that you just, and, and I just want
to let you know that I, I wanna thank you for,
(18:23):
for what you said to me. We're probably not gonna
see eye to eye on this, but I just want
to say thank you. And I just wanted you to
see me, see you because like you matter. Bro, 99
times out of 100, what does that do? It diffuses any,
any sort of like, um, uh, animosity and.
Again, 99 times out of 100, these people become like, oh,
(18:45):
you know what, I trust you. I don't don't necessarily
agree with you, but I trust you. And so like,
what are ways that we can use these screens to
uh foster true community? It won't be the real commu
it won't be the, the, the perfect version of community,
but I do believe that they're, it's a start. I
do believe that people can hear what I have to say, maybe,
maybe think a little bit, um, and I'm a safe
(19:06):
place to have.
Uncomfortable conversations and grace-filled ways and I, I, I feel
like that's a great way to
use it.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Well, I love that approach you have too. It's, it's
acknowledging the Imago day that hey, I'm, I'm creating the
image of God. You're creating the image of God. Can we,
can we find some common ground here? Like Carlos, I
don't know if you're a Dodger fan because Nashville doesn't
have a team, but you know, the Dodgers have been
so often a common ground for me with so many
people that I probably would disagree with. But hey, we're
(19:33):
gonna root for the Dodgers all day every day.
Yes,
Speaker 2 (19:38):
find something you can root for together. I tell people,
I do a lot of de-escalation talks in the corporate sector.
I do a lot of, um, talks like that, and I,
I tell people all the time, I don't care who
it is. I don't care how vehemently you disagree with them.
There is something you, you can find that you can
root for together, I promise you there is.
So if it's the Dodgers, if it's, you know, for me, unfortunately,
(19:59):
it's the Atlanta Falcons, you know, like there's a lot
of long longsuffering Falcon fans that I, that I probably
would not vote for the same person as them, but
boy do we scream our heads off on Sundays and
suffer together, right? And so like, what are those things
that we can find that we can, that can bring
us some unity?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, I love it. Oh man, Carlos, um.
I definitely want you to keep, keep talking because you
got so much to offer and I mean this is
just one topic again I uh for those that just
joined us we're with Carlos Whittaker. You can find him
on Instagram at Carlos Whittaker um and he is the
author of Reconnected um and spent some time with Amish and.
(20:35):
And uh monks, Christian monks, just so we're clear, uh,
Benedictine monks you said yeah, I love that. I teach
church history and so the Benedictine order is powerful but
uh so in light of unplugging from our screens and
online activity and as you said already plugging into Jesus,
(20:57):
the vine as we already mentioned John 15.
Uh, plugging into Jesus more and from there allowing that
core plug into Christ to it and then to each other,
what final words of encouragement like this is the this
is that big altar call moment for you, um, uh,
do you want to leave with, you know, students that
(21:18):
are listening because our students, you know, whether junior high,
high school or college, arguably probably.
Spend more than 7 hours a day online, uh, on
their phones or wherever, and what final word of encouragement
do you want to leave with those students or parents
and how do parents navigate that? Maybe that's a new
category too if you want to address parents real quick.
How can parents interact with their kids to help them,
(21:39):
you know, I, I, my daughter and I joke, she'll
be on her phone.
And I'll come up it's like this thing where I'll
come up and try to slap it out of her hand.
I bought the phone so I make sure there's a
padding underneath it before I have to pay for a
new one, but, and she, she smiles at me, but
I'm like it's like a game now where I just, I,
I'm like, hey screen time, you're gonna have bedrock or
whatever they call it where the kid just sits there
and just scans on TikTok. How do you help parents
(22:02):
and or parents to get off their phones when they're
not paying attention to their
kids?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It it definitely is not a.
A generation thing anymore. I mean, there's my, my mom's
generation is more addicted to Facebook and, you know, I
mean it, it's just everywhere. And so this is what
I would say. I, I, I would say that that
the most important thing to understand, especially with technology and screens,
is that I think we make the mistake of, of
thinking that we're addicted to our phones. Um, and I
(22:27):
tell people all the time, you're not addicted to your phone.
The phone is the needle, OK? That would be like
any sort of addict is addicted to the.
Needle. Well, no, they're not addicted to the needle. They're
addicted to the drug that's coming through the needle. So
I think the most important thing to figure out isn't like,
throw the phone away. No, the phone's just a needle.
You can go to the hospital and they can administer
life-saving medicine to you through the needle, or you can,
(22:47):
you know, get a drug that's going to harm you
through the needle. You have to find out what is
the drug, what is the thing that you're actually addicted to,
and 9 times out of 10 for an adult in America,
it's rage, right?
The drug is rage. The drug is, it, it fuels
us and we want to fight and we want to
argue and so I, I think what I would encourage parents,
or again if you're a student, is stop trying to
(23:09):
figure out why you're on your phone so much and
like maybe like lock your phone away. No, like you've
got to start asking Holy Spirit. OK, Holy Spirit, what
is this, what is the drug that is coming through
the needle that somehow is replacing what you are supposed
to give me?
And I think when you ask that specific question, Holy
Spirit will give you a specific answer, and then at
(23:30):
that point you're going to start seeing your screen time
slowly but surely begin to go away. You don't have
to throw the phones away. I still use my phone
every single day, but what I realized is, oh, the
drug that I was addicted to was control, not the phone.
When I let the Lord start controlling my life, guess what?
My screen time began to go down.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
That's
so good.
Carlos, there's so much spiritual connection we've quoted scripture we've
talked about, you know, how you uh.
Unconnect or deconnected or unplugged to plug into Jesus and
people um I feel like there's a spiritual connection even
for those listening right now whether on radio or or
through podcasts that if you could pray over people and
(24:13):
even for chains to be broken uh to that drug
as you mentioned that toxicity that online toxicity and and
for the listeners if you just be open to what
Carlos is about to pray I trust this man he
is full of the Holy Spirit.
He knows God's word and and so I just would
ask that you would open your heart to what Carlos
is about to pray and we'll we'll let God do
what he wants to do right now over the airwaves
(24:34):
and in the Internet.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Let's do it. Let's do it. So um Holy Spirit,
we come to you, God the Father Jesus, and we
just ask we consecrate the next few seconds to you,
whatever consecration needs to happen in everyone's heart in anyone's
heart that's listening to this right now.
Spirit, will you be the convictor? Do not allow any
of Mike's words, any of my words to be convicting.
(24:56):
May you be the convictor. May you be the one
that shows us exactly what it is we need to
release control of and allow you to be the thing
that controls every facet of our life. So Lord, there
is zero shame. If anyone feels any shame, I just
rebuke that shame and I send it to the cross.
We don't.
have to deal with shame anymore, but what I ask
(25:16):
for is total freedom and dependence on you, Holy Spirit.
May you be the light, the air, the, the, the
breath inside of lungs that maybe somebody's only been breathing
at 50%. May this conversation be the thing that allows
them to breathe at 100%. May they know that there
is so much more for them, and may you be
that more, for it is in the name of Jesus
(25:36):
we pray. Amen. Amen.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Carlos Whittaker, thank you for fulfilling your lifelong dream to
be on K-wave radio and the Kingdom Culture podcast.
But seriously, thank you for joining us. Uh, I've, I've
been blessed by this. I, I know our listeners have been,
so man, God bless you and everything you do and
if you want to follow Carlos uh uh at Carlos
Whittaker on Instagram is probably the best way to follow
(26:00):
what he's doing and, uh, and then his, his book
reconnected and I'm not going to say all the rest
of the title because it's pretty long, but look up
Carlos Whittaker and reconnected on Amazon. I'm sure you could
find his book there in the in the documentary. Carlos,
thank you so much. God bless you, man.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Hey, thanks for having me.
Welcome to Kingdom and Culture where we do our best
to intersect truth with grace and seeing the kingdom of
God advance. Uh, today we're gonna talk a little bit
about connecting with God. Jesus said in Matthew 11:28-30, go
online to seek all meaning of life and argue ferociously
(00:35):
with those with whom you disagree, and then you will
find true peace.
Now before all the people in the audience stop and
go wait that's heretical, that's not what Jesus said well
I want to say you're right because that's not what
he said and I'm trying to use humor to outline
the fact that Jesus actually said the opposite. He said
in Matthew 11:28.
(00:56):
Come to me all you who are weary and burdened,
and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon
you and learn from me, for I am gentle and
humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls,
for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
So to help us unpack this often quoted, but I
think often misunderstood passage of scripture is Carlos Whittaker. He's
(01:19):
the author of Reconnected.
And how to human. He's also a fellow podcaster and
I'll be honest, he is a really cool online influencer,
social media influencer. I don't know whatever titles you want
to add to that, but Carlos, welcome. Good to have you.
What did I miss? What do you want to pack
in there as people just get to know who you
are on radio and on podcast?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, first of all, thanks for, thanks for having me. Uh, I,
I think the first thing people need to know besides
all the great.
Nice things you just said about me is that like,
like I may live in Nashville, Tennessee, but I'm a
SoCal guy. So like when, when I, when I got
an email or my assistant was like, hey, Kwave wants
to do it, I was like, K wave, you mean
the K wave that I was listening to when I
(02:03):
was the worship pastor at Sandals Church in Riverside, California,
the 909 before it came to 951, like, like, like
I'm like, I'm like in man. I'm IE to the
core and uh, and so anyway I.
I, I love the ministry of K-wave. I love what
you guys have done for so long, and, um, I
also am grateful that you're, you know, asking me to
(02:24):
just even partake a little bit in this conversation where
we have found ourselves as a kingdom culture, I think,
accidentally reading the scripture the way that you were jokingly
reading it at the beginning of that little segment where,
you know, come to me.
Who are weary, uh, and find me online and maybe
(02:45):
you can find a little bit of peace there. No,
like that, that's not, that's not what Jesus said and
so I, I'd love to dive in a little bit
in this conversation because, you know, I actually get the
honor of, and we'll talk about this a little bit,
but I get, I get the honor of being Jesus'
hands and feet in a secular culture outside the walls
of the church, um, and I'm telling you, I'm telling you,
(03:07):
I'm telling you.
Christians need to understand that the world is watching the
world is watching how they treat each other. The world,
the world is watching them devour each other, and I
am getting the questions from the world going like, hey,
you like you're a part of that Christian thing like help,
help us understand. So it is so vital this conversation
that we're gonna have today.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, and if anybody's well people that are watching, you
can follow Carlos on on Instagram just Carlos Whittaker um.
If you have and or do follow Carlos, you, you
intersect with both and you, I've seen you offend both
sides of the aisle, Christians, non-Christians, you've lost followers over
it and actually it makes me go this guy is
(03:49):
real and it doesn't mean we always agree whether you
or me or whoever else online it means though you
have a conversation.
And you bring people to the table to have that conversation.
So yeah, we're I'm, I'm excited to jump in on
this um so like you just mentioned, people misunderstand scripture,
misquote scripture, think that they can find peace and or
meaning in the midst of what I would call unhealthy
(04:12):
or toxic conflict, but uh as you mentioned, it's no
news that American society is overwhelmed with overstimulation of information online.
Um, probably not from books as much as online. Uh,
in fact, probably good to go read a book or two,
but you recently participated in a real-life documentary with the Amish.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I did.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
That's first of all, who gets to
do that?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yeah, I know. I'm I'm actually, I, I lived my
wife's dream. I got to live with her, who, who
she dreams of living with every day, the Amish
Speaker 1 (04:46):
that seriously, and so there's, it's this documentary called Reconnected
and so uh can you just uh talk a little
bit about that.
And catch our audience up to speed with your experience,
how and why you sought to go into that endeavor,
kind of what we've just mentioned, but what, yeah, what
led you to say, hey, I'm gonna go spend a
(05:07):
month with the Amish connect myself to some things to
figure out my, my vital signs and see if I'm
a better man by the end of it, which I'm
kind of, I don't want to get the cart ahead
of the horse here so I'm gonna let you talk.
So yeah, why'd you do that?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, thanks so much. Yeah, you know, I've got a
book and a documentary called Reconnected, um, and, and the
subtitle is How Seven Screen-free Weeks with monks and Amish
Farmers Helped me recover the Lost Art of Being Human.
So there it is. You don't even have to read
the book or watch the documentary. You got it all
right there. Like it's the longest subtitle on planet Earth,
(05:40):
but it explains exactly what.
Happened and you know what, what the kind of the,
the genesis of this experiment for me was a couple
of years ago, you know, I got a screen time
notification that we all get on Sundays that tells you
how many hours a day and minutes a day you've
averaged staring at your screen and mine was 7 hours
and 23 minutes a day, which was shocking. Um, and
(06:01):
then I did the math and this is where, you know.
Your listeners can, the first thing I ask people to
do is do the math. Find out your screen time
and do the math. And here was what my math
told me. That equals 49 hours a week, which is
two entire cycles of the sun that I spend looking
at my phone, which also equals 100+ days a year.
(06:21):
Now listen to that for a 2nd. 100 days a year,
I'm literally non-existent, just staring at a screen, and if
I live to be 85 years old, I'll spend over
12 years of my remaining life.
Staring at my phone. So that was the genesis. I
said I can't do this anymore. I flew to LA,
got my brain scanned by a neuroscientist, then I left
(06:43):
the neuroscientist's office after my brain scan and cognitive memory testing,
and I moved in in the high desert of Southern
California with 20 Benedictine monks, and I lived with them
for 2.5 weeks. Then I, after then, there I flew
to um.
Um, Holmes County, Ohio, and I moved into an Amish
sheep farm, uh, with the Amish for 2.5 weeks. Then
(07:03):
I moved back home for 2.5 weeks and lived with
my family with no screens. I had no screens. They
still had screens. Then I flew back to LA, got
my brain rescanned, and and I'll, I'll go and say
this about the Italian, yeah, yes, there's, there's, you can
watch a documentary, you can see my brain scan results,
all kinds of things, crazy things changed.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
For the skeptics they'll need to, they'll wanna, they'll want
to look at all that, yeah, for sure,
Speaker 2 (07:25):
absolutely, um, but, but I think what, what hit me
first and was probably the most, um, jarring thing was
that after 3 days of not having my screen this
no longer became an experiment about a screen. It no
longer became an experiment about phone, it became an experiment
about oh my god.
Gosh, look at all of these lost art forms that
(07:48):
we have forgotten how to do that God has created us,
put inside of the fabric of our DNA to have
community with each other, to sit across from people that
we disagree with. Hey, believe it or not, if you
look at a picture of me, I'm not Amish. And
so guess what? When I sat across from Willis, my Amish, uh,
my new Amish best friend, we, we.
(08:10):
Vehemently disagreed about a whole lot of things. I tell
like my super conservative friends, you know, like I'd get super,
I'm talking about. I tell my friends all the time,
y'all are the most liberal Amish people I've ever met.
Like y'all, y'all think you're conservatives. No, man, like listen,
because there, there, there was, I mean, such a, obviously
they're Amish for a reason because they believe in conserving
(08:33):
this way of life, right? And so this is, here's
a beautiful thing.
I sat across from Willis, my new Amish best friend,
over 2.5 hour dinners. Like, we, we vehemently disagreed about
all sorts of things, but guess what? He became one
of my closest friends on planet Earth. Why? Because I
believe we broke bread together, we commune together, and these
(08:53):
screens have allowed us to basically be consumed in an
ecosystem of rage that God did not.
Create us for and so I'm just trying to help
people really try to live out the beatitudes and and
what Jesus is actually calling us to do.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Well, that's what we're hoping this short little podcast will
will lead us toward uh maybe you could say it
one way this just came to my mind to replace
your tablet with the table. Oh, that'll preach that'll
Speaker 2 (09:21):
preach put that on a t-shirt. I'm buying it right now.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, that's good. So again, without giving too many spoilers,
um you kind of touched on it, but what main
takeaway can you share with us with our audience about
how we can best disconnect from being online from our
cell phones, our computers, our tablets in order to better
connect with God and each other? What would be that?
(09:46):
What's the, what's the secret sauce?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah man, no, it's so good. Um well, the first
thing that I want to make sure that people understand is.
Exactly what you just said. I disconnected to reconnect. That's
why the documentary is called Reconnected because everyone was coming
up to me and going, dude, how was it when
you disconnected for two months? And I was like, actually
I reconnected. I plugged back in to the voice of God. I,
I would say the biggest thing for your listeners to
(10:09):
understand is there is no way on planet Earth that
you can clearly hear the voice of God and be
discipled by the voice.
Voice of God when you were spending 5 to 7
hours a day being discipled by podcasters and pundits and
all of the voices coming from your phone when I disconnected,
I reconnected with a booming voice of God that I
(10:31):
had not heard in years and it was such a
breath of fresh air into my lungs that, you know, I, I,
when I got my phone back, I'm now averaging 2
hours a day on my phone after.
Averaging 7 hours, that's 5 hours a day that I've
gained back into my life that, um, that you don't
have to go live with monks or go live with
(10:51):
the Amish in order to pull this off. And so,
Speaker 1 (10:54):
but I kind of want to do that now that
you've said it.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Totally no, you know, it is, it's an introvert's dream.
I'll go ahead and, you know, be honest with you, but, but,
but even, you know, I, some other things that I
realized was like, you know.
I, I thought, oh my gosh, I'm not gonna have
my screen, like, you know, I'm just gonna be so bored, like,
what am I gonna be able to do? There, there
is so much life going on around us that God
has placed in front of us that we can be
(11:18):
caring and concerned for. So like when I was living
with the Amish, guess what? I didn't, I wasn't worried
about what was happening around planet, you know, on the
other side of the, the world that I was reading
on X, but I was concerned about Ms. Smith.
Out that she had a cancer diagnosis two farms over,
suddenly I'm like pouring into there and then I found
out that the postmaster, you know, uh, was having problems
with one of his kids, and I poured into there
(11:40):
and suddenly, man, I realized there is enough for us
to pray and be concerned about within 1 mile of
our home that the, the cares and the concerns of
the world, I don't know if we were actually designed.
With the capacity to consume and care about all the
things that are being presented in front of us, that
does not mean that those things aren't important. That does
(12:02):
not mean that we shouldn't care about those things. But
what I am telling you is what I realized is
there is so much directly around us in our family
and friends and church and just, just our community that
should be the place that most of our caring.
Hands in front of so that that was one of
the huge things I learned when I was with the
monks and the Amish.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
So two verses are coming to my mind. Sorry, my
pastor brain's going into mode here. John 15 where Jesus says, uh,
you know, um, plug into me basically, uh, connect with me, uh,
you know, I am the vine, you are the branches, and,
and so to be connected to Jesus and then the
second one I think of is Acts 1.
(12:41):
Where Jesus says, uh, go into all the world and
preach the gospel. Well, that's Matthew 28, excuse me, uh
you'll be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, to the
ends of the earth. So it, it obviously Jesus wants
us to branch out.
But maybe there's something there of starting in that core
place at home with your neighbors, uh, with your community
(13:01):
and connecting together and from there you then together because
even Jesus said go two by two, he didn't say
go alone, don't be a lone ranger on the Internet,
so to speak, maybe connect with others and do it
together in community.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
And yes, and when you uh when you do that,
when you, when you do it in community, when you,
you know, take the great commission and you, you know,
start going out to the ends of the earth, uh,
if you are truly connected in community close to where
you live, I believe that you will be so much more, um.
Uh, powerful when you, when you go out, you know what,
(13:38):
you can tell, you can tell people online or whatever
it is that aren't connected in true community at home
when they're out there just kind of like, you know,
wild wild west of the Internet, throwing their opinions here,
doing this, it's like you, you, you just have this
gut feeling like, but like, do they actually have any
friends at home? Like are they really this way at home?
And so, you know, I, I just think especially talking
(14:00):
about our screens when I did not look at a screen.
For 2 months. I will tell you, it was the
greatest 2 months of my adult life. Like I just
was like, the Lord created us to wonder about things
that we don't know. I mean, that was one thing
that immediately I realized, wow, we've lost the sense of wonder.
We no longer wonder about anything anymore because we can
(14:22):
find out the answer in 1 2nd. Well, guess what?
I had 2 months where I couldn't find out the
answer to the questions that I had. And guess what
I had to do? Wonder. Like it's this thing that.
It's been extinct for the last 10 years, one, but
I was able to do that again and there's all
of these beautiful things that God created us to do
that we no longer do anymore because we can get
the answers to things so quickly that that I, I
(14:44):
just think that we got to start reconnecting with some
of those lost art forms in order to truly be
who God has called us to be. Well,
Speaker 1 (14:50):
this next thing is not in my notes, so to speak,
but I'm going to say it anyway. You, one of
your recent stories, you were standing underneath the Big Dipper.
And you have a picture of you and the Big Dipper, dude,
I love that shot like I want to go now
take a picture with the Big Dipper. I can't hear
in SoCal because cloud cover and no stars, but when
(15:11):
I get to the stars next, that's it. I'm doing it.
It's, it is,
Speaker 2 (15:16):
it is, it, it, you know, and my, my, my
wife and I had spent 48 hours in the backcountry
in Montana and Wyoming camping, uh, no cell service, and,
and it was actually the harvest moon that had kind
of come over the horizon and it literally looked like a,
like a suburban with its bright lights flashing on our,
(15:36):
you know, on our campsite because it was so bright,
but all of these things.
That we forget are there for us to experience all
of the beauty of God's grand like you cannot stand,
look at that moon and see the Big Dipper and
not believe there's something bigger, something greater than you that
is out there and so yeah man, just get back
out there, touch the grass, take off your shoes, put
(15:59):
the phone down and uh and start getting some of
your life back.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Well, and that leads into here's the irony.
So you're an online influencer. That's what you do now.
Also worship leader, you can do that if we had
a guitar and a fire pit, you'd probably pick it
up and start leading us.
Uh bro,
Speaker 2 (16:15):
if it, if it was late 1990s vineyard, I will
crush those songs on a guitar by Campfire.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Way to be self-aware, uh, but you, you, you're an
influencer to both believers and unbelievers like we talked about earlier,
so it obviously seems a little bit counterintuitive, um, or
maybe overly anti-cultural to totally abandon all online activity. We,
we have to engage the culture in that way.
Uh, but how might we find a balance between good
old fashioned in-person connection that we're talking about while still
(16:45):
being relevant both in person and online, and so what
tension do we need to manage between the online and, uh,
real life connection world?
You know, I, I,
Speaker 2 (16:56):
I, well, no, it is a tension, and I, it's
a tension that I walk in on a daily basis.
I mean, I freaking wrote the book called Reconnected about
not being on your screen for two months, and I
make a living talking to my screen, right? And so, um, I, I, I,
I just think that it, it's us learning.
To make sure that we are in charge of the
screen and the screen isn't in charge of us and
so most of my, most of my heart conversations aren't
(17:20):
online like like I, I used to spend so much
time arguing or trying to prove someone right and this
is just a question I ask everybody.
When is the last time that you met somebody that
you disagreed with online and your thumbs were able to
convince them to change their mind? Probably the answer is never.
So why are you wasting your energy doing that, um, online?
(17:42):
So what, what, what do I use my online presence
for now is encouragement. I, I, I, I try to not,
you know.
Use my online presence to like, you know, argue with people.
If people are mad at me, like you talked about
at the beginning, if somebody disagrees with me about something
and they come at me in my DMs and they're
like firing off a paragraph with their thumbs. You know
what I do every single time? I, I, I look
(18:03):
at what they say, and even though my heart wants, um,
to like reply back to them and like one up them,
I open up my camera every single time. I do
this multiple times a day. I open up my camera,
I aim it at me and I hit record and
I go, hey man.
I, I just wanted you to see me. This is Carlos,
the guy that you just, and, and I just want
to let you know that I, I wanna thank you for,
(18:23):
for what you said to me. We're probably not gonna
see eye to eye on this, but I just want
to say thank you. And I just wanted you to
see me, see you because like you matter. Bro, 99
times out of 100, what does that do? It diffuses any,
any sort of like, um, uh, animosity and.
Again, 99 times out of 100, these people become like, oh,
(18:45):
you know what, I trust you. I don't don't necessarily
agree with you, but I trust you. And so like,
what are ways that we can use these screens to
uh foster true community? It won't be the real commu
it won't be the, the, the perfect version of community,
but I do believe that they're, it's a start. I
do believe that people can hear what I have to say, maybe,
maybe think a little bit, um, and I'm a safe
(19:06):
place to have.
Uncomfortable conversations and grace-filled ways and I, I, I feel
like that's a great way to
use it.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Well, I love that approach you have too. It's, it's
acknowledging the Imago day that hey, I'm, I'm creating the
image of God. You're creating the image of God. Can we,
can we find some common ground here? Like Carlos, I
don't know if you're a Dodger fan because Nashville doesn't
have a team, but you know, the Dodgers have been
so often a common ground for me with so many
people that I probably would disagree with. But hey, we're
(19:33):
gonna root for the Dodgers all day every day.
Yes,
Speaker 2 (19:38):
find something you can root for together. I tell people,
I do a lot of de-escalation talks in the corporate sector.
I do a lot of, um, talks like that, and I,
I tell people all the time, I don't care who
it is. I don't care how vehemently you disagree with them.
There is something you, you can find that you can
root for together, I promise you there is.
So if it's the Dodgers, if it's, you know, for me, unfortunately,
(19:59):
it's the Atlanta Falcons, you know, like there's a lot
of long longsuffering Falcon fans that I, that I probably
would not vote for the same person as them, but
boy do we scream our heads off on Sundays and
suffer together, right? And so like, what are those things
that we can find that we can, that can bring
us some unity?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, I love it. Oh man, Carlos, um.
I definitely want you to keep, keep talking because you
got so much to offer and I mean this is
just one topic again I uh for those that just
joined us we're with Carlos Whittaker. You can find him
on Instagram at Carlos Whittaker um and he is the
author of Reconnected um and spent some time with Amish and.
(20:35):
And uh monks, Christian monks, just so we're clear, uh,
Benedictine monks you said yeah, I love that. I teach
church history and so the Benedictine order is powerful but
uh so in light of unplugging from our screens and
online activity and as you said already plugging into Jesus,
(20:57):
the vine as we already mentioned John 15.
Uh, plugging into Jesus more and from there allowing that
core plug into Christ to it and then to each other,
what final words of encouragement like this is the this
is that big altar call moment for you, um, uh,
do you want to leave with, you know, students that
(21:18):
are listening because our students, you know, whether junior high,
high school or college, arguably probably.
Spend more than 7 hours a day online, uh, on
their phones or wherever, and what final word of encouragement
do you want to leave with those students or parents
and how do parents navigate that? Maybe that's a new
category too if you want to address parents real quick.
How can parents interact with their kids to help them,
(21:39):
you know, I, I, my daughter and I joke, she'll
be on her phone.
And I'll come up it's like this thing where I'll
come up and try to slap it out of her hand.
I bought the phone so I make sure there's a
padding underneath it before I have to pay for a
new one, but, and she, she smiles at me, but
I'm like it's like a game now where I just, I,
I'm like, hey screen time, you're gonna have bedrock or
whatever they call it where the kid just sits there
and just scans on TikTok. How do you help parents
(22:02):
and or parents to get off their phones when they're
not paying attention to their
kids?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It it definitely is not a.
A generation thing anymore. I mean, there's my, my mom's
generation is more addicted to Facebook and, you know, I
mean it, it's just everywhere. And so this is what
I would say. I, I, I would say that that
the most important thing to understand, especially with technology and screens,
is that I think we make the mistake of, of
thinking that we're addicted to our phones. Um, and I
(22:27):
tell people all the time, you're not addicted to your phone.
The phone is the needle, OK? That would be like
any sort of addict is addicted to the.
Needle. Well, no, they're not addicted to the needle. They're
addicted to the drug that's coming through the needle. So
I think the most important thing to figure out isn't like,
throw the phone away. No, the phone's just a needle.
You can go to the hospital and they can administer
life-saving medicine to you through the needle, or you can,
(22:47):
you know, get a drug that's going to harm you
through the needle. You have to find out what is
the drug, what is the thing that you're actually addicted to,
and 9 times out of 10 for an adult in America,
it's rage, right?
The drug is rage. The drug is, it, it fuels
us and we want to fight and we want to
argue and so I, I think what I would encourage parents,
or again if you're a student, is stop trying to
(23:09):
figure out why you're on your phone so much and
like maybe like lock your phone away. No, like you've
got to start asking Holy Spirit. OK, Holy Spirit, what
is this, what is the drug that is coming through
the needle that somehow is replacing what you are supposed
to give me?
And I think when you ask that specific question, Holy
Spirit will give you a specific answer, and then at
(23:30):
that point you're going to start seeing your screen time
slowly but surely begin to go away. You don't have
to throw the phones away. I still use my phone
every single day, but what I realized is, oh, the
drug that I was addicted to was control, not the phone.
When I let the Lord start controlling my life, guess what?
My screen time began to go down.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
That's
so good.
Carlos, there's so much spiritual connection we've quoted scripture we've
talked about, you know, how you uh.
Unconnect or deconnected or unplugged to plug into Jesus and
people um I feel like there's a spiritual connection even
for those listening right now whether on radio or or
through podcasts that if you could pray over people and
(24:13):
even for chains to be broken uh to that drug
as you mentioned that toxicity that online toxicity and and
for the listeners if you just be open to what
Carlos is about to pray I trust this man he
is full of the Holy Spirit.
He knows God's word and and so I just would
ask that you would open your heart to what Carlos
is about to pray and we'll we'll let God do
what he wants to do right now over the airwaves
(24:34):
and in the Internet.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Let's do it. Let's do it. So um Holy Spirit,
we come to you, God the Father Jesus, and we
just ask we consecrate the next few seconds to you,
whatever consecration needs to happen in everyone's heart in anyone's
heart that's listening to this right now.
Spirit, will you be the convictor? Do not allow any
of Mike's words, any of my words to be convicting.
(24:56):
May you be the convictor. May you be the one
that shows us exactly what it is we need to
release control of and allow you to be the thing
that controls every facet of our life. So Lord, there
is zero shame. If anyone feels any shame, I just
rebuke that shame and I send it to the cross.
We don't.
have to deal with shame anymore, but what I ask
(25:16):
for is total freedom and dependence on you, Holy Spirit.
May you be the light, the air, the, the, the
breath inside of lungs that maybe somebody's only been breathing
at 50%. May this conversation be the thing that allows
them to breathe at 100%. May they know that there
is so much more for them, and may you be
that more, for it is in the name of Jesus
(25:36):
we pray. Amen. Amen.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Carlos Whittaker, thank you for fulfilling your lifelong dream to
be on K-wave radio and the Kingdom Culture podcast.
But seriously, thank you for joining us. Uh, I've, I've
been blessed by this. I, I know our listeners have been,
so man, God bless you and everything you do and
if you want to follow Carlos uh uh at Carlos
Whittaker on Instagram is probably the best way to follow
(26:00):
what he's doing and, uh, and then his, his book
reconnected and I'm not going to say all the rest
of the title because it's pretty long, but look up
Carlos Whittaker and reconnected on Amazon. I'm sure you could
find his book there in the in the documentary. Carlos,
thank you so much. God bless you, man.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Hey, thanks for having me.
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