July 8, 2025 • 26 mins
Are you single? Dating? Engaged? Married? If single, should you date? If dating, should you get married? If you are in any of these relationship categories, Kaylee and Jacob Nowlenfritchman help answer these questions as they share biblical wisdom & practical life answers based on their “God-written” story of friendship and eventual dating to marriage.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In Song of Solomon, 3 different times, the Bible tells
us to not awaken or arouse love until it so desires.
Kayle and Jacob are a newly married couple in the
last year, and they tell a story about how God
orchestrated their story. And so I want to encourage you
to get your heart ready to receive the word of
(00:21):
God in the framework of relationship. So let's go ahead
and walk into this episode of Kingdom and Culture with
Jacob and Kayle.
(00:43):
Honestly, we'll just get started because we only have a
little bit of time together and so you tell what
you want about yourselves, but I do want to give again,
um I did kind of accidentally, depending on one's theological
perspective here, I kind of did accidentally prophesy their marriage. Yeah,
so I'm just gonna start off with it. Why not? Um,
so they were in our chapel of Vanguard and you know,
(01:05):
it was around the time where couples might
Might not start dating and, and so I saw the
two of them, Jacob and Kaylee in our chapel in
the back and I said, are, are the two of
you dating? And they looked at each other like, no,
why would you say such a thing? They were almost
offended that I would even suggest that they'd be dating.
Oh my bad, my bad, um, uh, come to find
(01:25):
out that later, about a month later they, they did
start dating and then got engaged and then.
I'm just gonna call. I got to be the guy
that officiated your wedding. So all right, I've said enough
about me that's my perspective. So let's backtrack, get to
your story, go for it, how you guys met and such.
(01:47):
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:48):
well, it started at Vanguard. We had been on different
worship teams and I'm, I'm Jacob, by the way, and.
Uh, met at Vanguard, we're doing worship and just kind
of really didn't know each other that well. We just
kind of saw each other, but had different instances where
we would spend time together doing worship rehearsals, whatever it was,
(02:09):
and eventually just formed into a really good friendship.
And from that friendship, it got to that point where
we're like, no, we're just friends and so we thought
it was funny when you're like, Oh, you guys
dating
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I was like convinced that he's like my brother. Like
my parents would ask I talk about him. They're like,
don't you? I'm like, he's just like a brother I
was her pigtails or we
mess
Speaker 2 (02:37):
with each other. Yeah, we did, but I don't know,
like I just.
You know for a while it was just that until
I don't know just like I think just one day
it just switched I think it was for it took
Kaylee a little bit longer because for me I was
like OK I was set
Speaker 1 (02:50):
once
you knew that this is the woman for
you
Speaker 2 (02:52):
yeah but from then it's just been so many different.
Things that have happened within the last year. I know
you've been a part of it, which is, but it's
just a matter of graduating, getting married and moving and
now in our jobs and but it's just, it's been crazy. Well,
Speaker 1 (03:07):
let's
let's tap in a little bit of that. So um
just so that everybody knows we'll come back to it later.
But um so what are you doing now? Where if
each of you could uh
Let us know what position you hold at your church.
It's a vineyard church in Los Angeles, but yeah, just
that that kind of what's happening now and then we'll
kind of reconstruct how you got there because what I
(03:29):
want to show is like if there's like a 15
or 16 year old here, even a 20 or 21
year old wondering, God, what do you have for me?
Who am I going to marry? What am I going to?
do for a living? How am I going to make it?
We want to encourage people that God is faithful. And
so I kind of gave the punch line there in
terms of the goal. But yeah, tell a little bit
about what you're doing now and your position because I
(03:50):
know you, you, you, you're actually filling into your major
in many respects, but in a ministry context, and Jacob.
I guess business does apply to the church, the Lord's business,
but yeah, so whoever wants to start, maybe Kaylee will
start with you. Yeah. I'm the communications manager for Vineyard
(04:11):
Church and I get to do all the social media, um,
some design things and all like the mass communication like
emails and texts and
All that and I still get to do worship with
Jacob sometimes, but you were a communication at Vanguard, so
you're you're able to apply what you learned in your
gifts and talents there. Yeah, I actually, I wanted to
(04:34):
do worship going into Vanguard, but
I came in undeclared because I didn't know what I
wanted to do and I didn't think I needed a
degree to worship. So wherever you go. You worship God
wherever you go. But I communication.
I think my sophomore year I declared communication as my major. OK, cool.
(05:09):
And now you're
Speaker 2 (05:09):
doing it. And you said vineyard church now which vineyards.
It was West Side, but it was really cool. It
was the founding vineyard. It used to meet on the beach.
Santa Monica.
And so we have now just kind of transitioned instead
of there's all like kind of vineyards are distinguished as
we have like mid City, then we had West Side
and all this, but now we're just vineyard Church because
it's where it started
Speaker 1 (05:29):
and
and in Los Angeles. OK. So Jacob, what are you
what are you doing? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I'm
the worship pastor over at Vineyard Church, so handling.
Um, any and all things worship, production, that sort of
thing get to oversee multiple teams, which is very similar
to what I did at Vanguard, which was awesome because
had all that preparation that got me to this and yeah,
just being on a team as just the pastoral kind of.
(05:58):
Guy that people on the team can go to, people
are interested in music and production and.
Yeah, it's just, it's really cool to see how that
has kind of shifted my responsibilities in a way from
just leading a worship team to now like what I'm doing.
I've been here, it's been really good. I
Speaker 1 (06:17):
love it. You're 23, Kaylee. You're 24, Jacob. You guys
just got married.
In June, May, May of 2024. I should know that
I appreciated the wedding. It's in my calendar. I just
didn't have it in my head. Um, so, uh, I,
I love it because you're, you're serving God, you're, you're
(06:39):
getting a paycheck, praise the Lord in ministry, and that's,
I mean, count your blessings, name them one by one
type thing, right? Um, so we're gonna, we're going to
backtrack a little bit on that. So.
You guys met and you're in college you got engaged
after you graduated, right, Jacob? So you, OK, so you
then you while she was a senior at Vanguard, you got,
Speaker 2 (07:02):
she got the flex her ring on campus. Yes,
Speaker 1 (07:04):
she did and she did. Oh, she did like it
was the ring of power from Lord of the Rings
like she was like precious and so and
so it hurts
like, oh, your left bicep looks a little larger than.
because you're just lifting so much gold and jewels.
Yeah.
OK, that was fun. Thanks for going with our jokes
(07:24):
on that. That was great. Hey, um, so while you
were there, what, what, uh, what kind of thoughts were
you guys having? What kind of led up to you,
your heart's coming to a place where not only, you know,
here you are going to get married, but that.
Hey, ministry is where we're going, especially being non-ministry majors
(07:45):
in uh college, how did you, how did you come
to that place of peace to say, here my Lord,
send me, uh, in terms of your uh now current
chosen profession.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, I, yeah, for me, it was kind of crazy
because I think the
My the ministry aspect of it kind of happened before
me and Kaylee even really knew each other. It was
after SFG and the spiritual formation department at Vanguard when
I had gotten involved and I came in as a
business major, not really knowing what I was going to do.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Like at all and you transferred from San Diego State,
Speaker 2 (08:21):
San Diego State, and I was in engineering. Yeah. So
that was, I was like, I was good at math.
Let's do it. I I almost failed physics. It was
so bad. But I came in, not knowing exactly what
I wanted to do and it wasn't until like my
sophomore year, when I came to that realization that people
have always been my mission and this is ultimately what
I've always been doing but never knew that that's actually
(08:43):
what I wanted to pursue. And so that came into play.
And when I had met Kaylee, I don't want to
speak for her, but it was almost like we kind
of already had that set like that was already something
like this is what we're doing, this is what we're
pursuing so when we got to know each other and
we kind of progressed in our relationship that was never
a like debatable like it was always like no we
(09:05):
both have this foundation. I think that was a big
part of like what drew us together too is because
that was never a.
Maybe we do ministry and maybe we like no, it
was like, no, we're we're doing ministry. And
Speaker 1 (09:16):
so
it's kind of like you're both following Jesus together and
your paths converged as you're serving God, now you're serving
God together. I mean, that's oversimplification, but I think a
good picture.
Of a faithful pursuit of Christ first and foremost, and
then God brings your paths together to serve him together
(09:36):
and what a blessing that is that you, you get
to do that using your gifts and talents. Obviously not
limited to Jacob, you actually are a dry witty humor guy.
You could do stand up comedy, I'm sure one
Speaker 2 (09:48):
day if I got over my nerves. I'm sure
Speaker 1 (09:50):
right there you go. But you, you're up there leading
worship on a regular basis every Sunday at least and
then some.
Uh, you're helping with leading worship as well because Kaylee
also I, I've seen both of you lead worship quite
effectively and both of you have different styles too, which
I love, um, and, and God kind of does that too.
He brings kind of opposites track type thing. So, um, OK, uh, so.
(10:15):
You know, as we continue, uh, hoping to that, you know,
high school and college students are listening right now for
those that are listening, what would you say, you know,
in terms of now we're deconstructing from where you are now,
college sort of and you can dip into that a
little if you want, but.
I guess the question would be best framed, could you
(10:35):
have ever seen yourself, your high school self and young
college self following God first and foremost as you did
and then coming to this place of pursuing godly relationship together, um,
I guess, yeah, what would you say to your high
school aged self, uh, if you could tell that person.
(10:59):
87 years ago, hey.
God's got this. Trust him a little bit. Don't try and,
you know, date the next guy that comes your way
or the next gal that comes your way, Jacob, you know,
what would you tell your, your high school self in
terms of how God orchestrates relationship on a romantic level, um,
(11:20):
and how to trust some of that? I know that's,
that's deep and there's a that could go on any direction,
but hey, I'll let you guys walk that trail. Yeah,
I wish.
I could have, or I could tell my younger self
that like God's got it, like chill out. I was
like so obsessed with trying to find my person and
(11:42):
that led me to date like really bad people. And
I think I would just. Do you mind me asking,
maybe you haven't shared this with your husband.
How many guys did you did you date? I mean,
oh good, good. So it's not new. Oh, good thing
we got that out. So then you can tell us, yeah,
(12:04):
on the internet to the World Wide Web.
Um, I could count on two hands.
OK. Yeah, I did a lot of people. Yeah. And what, what, why, why,
and that's again, nothing against you for that. Uh, why
do you think that was for you? Well, high school
was weird.
High school, I was in like a rebellious stage. So
(12:27):
I was just dating to date because it was fun.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with dating, but I,
I wish I didn't just because it was kind of pointless.
The goal wasn't marriage. I was not thinking about marriage,
but I knew like I knew I wanted to get
married young and I wanted to have a husband, but
in high school I was not thinking about who my
(12:48):
husband because you can't know what you just don't know. Yeah.
And listen, I'm not.
Trying to angle for a I kiss dating goodbye thing
here that's not, that's not what we're going for here.
This is, but how do we, how do we make
sure we keep our eyes on Jesus, uh, whether you're
in high school, college, or postgraduate type life. I think like.
In college, at least for me, like I was so,
(13:11):
everyone's so obsessed, especially the Christian college with finding like
the one get their MRS degree. And I think, I
think the thing, the whole like
Just topic of the one is what we wrap our
identities into because then when we're dating somebody, it's like
all this pressure on this one person. And if something
(13:33):
goes wrong, then it's like, OK, they're not the person
for me. But with us, I feel like since it
happened so naturally and we were friends for a while beforehand,
we were like, wait, I like don't want to live
without this person and despite fighting and going through some
like hard times, wait.
You fight. Oh, you guys, nobody else fights. You're the
(13:57):
only ones
Speaker 2 (13:58):
not on good,
Speaker 1 (14:00):
good call, and that's on you, Jacob, that's on Jacob.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
She makes a really good point about, yeah, when we.
Obsessed over this like the one and looking for that
person and dating with that kind of mindset, it becomes
this checklist of like all these different things that we
might be looking for that we're looking that they don't
have and in reality what we have found and some
days harder than others, but it's about choosing that person.
(14:28):
Day after day after day and that pursuit, it's not
a matter of like, OK, they have to check my
boxes it's like I'm never gonna check all of her
boxes and vice versa in in a way, but it's
about I love this person so much. I want to
grow with them, I want to be better with them
and about choosing and I know that's something we found out.
(14:48):
Um, very quickly because I, I think we had mentioned
before that if it had been about finding the one
and meeting this criteria, we don't know if we would
have continued dating because that was somewhere where there was
always something coming up and we're like, man, we're arguing
till 2 in the morning or we can't get over
this one topic and if we had let that just
if it had been about dating, if we had come
(15:10):
to each other and it's like, OK, yeah, I wanna,
we wanna pursue this relationship, however that looks like.
And it had not been about that pursuit of that
relationship founded in the word and founded in what marriage
is supposed to reflect, then we would have just kind
of given up and just be like, this is too
much work, this is not what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Well, and could you say maybe, uh, you know, as
you look in scripture, 1 Corinthians 13 and love is patient,
love is kind, love does not boast, it, it does
not envy, it is uh.
And not self-seeking, love forgives, it, it, you know, it endures, um,
and you look at scripture and even in Ephesians 5
in the marriage context where men are to love their
(15:54):
wives as Christ loved the church, that's sacrificial, but in
many respects, women, you know, honoring your husbands, that's also
sacrificial because listen, I've been married for 22 years and
when my wife believes something.
And she humbles herself to honor me when she does
not want to do it. But um that's 22 years
(16:15):
talking right there. But you, so could you say maybe
love in the biblical Christian sense is less a feeling
and more a choice? Yes, yes, good answer. 100. Can
we put a 100 emoji? That's 100%. Yeah, I think.
(16:37):
If you don't choose to love the person, that's how like,
I feel like I've heard so many stories of people
getting divorced and they say like their love, they just
fell out of love. And like I think the feelings
of like
What's that word of like infatuation there are feelings nothing
against the well the arrows, the romantic love as scripture
(17:00):
talks about. And there's still that, but it changes in
a beautiful way. I think choosing to love someone despite
their flaws and
Like that's more beautiful than just being infatuated with the like,
what you think of how they
(17:20):
are. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (17:21):
that's what you want in a life partner you want
somebody who's going to choose you just be in a
honeymoon phase with like.
Whatever these things that you bring or whatever attributes
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Jesus does with us like he chooses to love us
despite our flaws, and he chooses us every day. What
role did your friends and your community play in your
uh coming together and staying together?
Because at your wedding I saw that there were people
on both sides, uh, your bridesmaids and your groomsmen, great people, um,
(17:55):
funny people, the guy's hilarious, dude, the guy with the
rose petal, your flower, your flower man Parker Parker Parker
did amazing. Sorry you had to be there, everybody,
Speaker 2 (18:05):
but he had a fanny
Speaker 1 (18:06):
pack, fanny pack with rose petals. It was great, great
flower man, um, so, uh.
Yeah, what, how, what did, what role the community and
friends play in your uh steps together?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I think friends and community played.
More heavily into our relationship with Christ rather than directly
our relationship together. I felt,
Speaker 1 (18:32):
except for me, of course, I was like a direct
like you're dating and that's yeah
Speaker 2 (18:37):
but I found a we times and Kaylee would tell
me she'd go talk to her best friend when we'd
have a fight and shout out to
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Sarah
Speaker 2 (18:45):
go talk to Matt, my best friend, and it really
helped to.
Either have perspective or just someone to listen, but not
necessarily it wasn't to you didn't need someone to say
like you're in the right, you're in the wrong. It
was more so just having that ability to just talk
and we talk obviously there's talk of having healthy relationships, um,
(19:05):
with friends, but we felt in that regard, our friends
really helped feed just ourselves when we had those conversations,
but I think especially, and this is what I was
when you were talking and
The question about what we would tell our younger selves,
community plays so much into your relationship with God. And
I saw that in our, just our friend group at
(19:28):
Vanguard and then our church friends and everywhere around like
it just constantly was.
Conversations, it was constantly check-ins and it just really fed
and inspired us. I feel like to just keep, keep
on going.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
But would you say, well, Christ being your foundation, his
word together as you walk that together and you're pursuing
Christ together maybe communities is kind of the air you
walk through that is surrounding you, uh, giving you a
hope and fun and accountability. I'm sure you know there's that, uh,
even to this day, the accountability factor of.
(20:07):
Uh, as, as you have men of God, you can
as iron sharpens iron, so as one man sharpen another
or as an iron sharp, maybe a woman sharpening another. Sarah,
you mentioned your friend, um, uh, and, and so you
guys are getting sharp and continuingly in that, um, that's, yeah.
And you know, as we frame this time together, um,
(20:29):
you're obviously serving the Lord together, which again I think
is um.
It can branch out to others like you don't have
to be in a pastoral ministry or in a church
working as the communications manager to to serve God together.
You can be in any framework of serving God, but
in the church, whether you're in a pastoral position or
(20:50):
a leadership position or you're serving in the church as
a volunteer but uh doing your day job, um, in
light of all of that.
You know, getting back to how you guys are now
working together in the church, um.
In light of what you're both doing with you doing communication,
(21:12):
social media, graphic design in the church, and Jacob you
being the worship pastor, um,
How do I mean, we kind of touched on a
little bit with regard to the relationship side of things,
but how can a high school student or a college
student today prepare their hearts for service, whether that be
full time uh in the church or serving God and
(21:34):
through the church and in their uh their vocational calling. Um,
what kind of things would you say to
To uh maybe a junior or senior in high school
preparing to go to college and maybe somebody in college
is there walking that road. They're just trying to get
good grades, maybe play sports, maybe do music, whatever it is,
maybe they do have a relationship, um, but how, how
(21:56):
would you suggest they add into their framework of understanding.
And don't forget about preparing yourself for service unto the Lord.
Does that make sense? Yeah, that's kind of a wordy question,
but
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I like how you bring up sports. I have a
great example is this youth kid, his name's Chaz, and
he explained to me, he's like, yeah, like I decided
I'm not going to do sports in high school. I'm
just gonna focus on being a drummer for youth group
and they have a big youth group, like 300 kids.
And just what I got from that is just being
willing to sacrifice and having that mindset of things that
(22:31):
I want versus things that are gonna grow me and
that are gonna prepare me. So I'm not necessarily saying
you need to like quit this and do this instead,
but you have to have that mindset of I'm willing
to give this up if it means you're forming my
heart or you're forming my perspective and that just, I
feel like that's where service stems from is like.
(22:51):
I can give this up or I'm willing to give
this up. I will give this up. And he's just,
I mean, he's a freshman in high school and he's
deciding just right off the bat, I'm going to serve
the church. I'm not going to do sports in high
school and for me, I, I don't think I could
have done that because there
Speaker 1 (23:07):
is
Speaker 2 (23:07):
a
Speaker 1 (23:07):
tension there like you have practice and getting the youth
group and if you're, you can't do that if uh yeah,
you have all that that that other commitments. So you're
saying kind of go all in for Jesus type thing.
That's, that's powerful, not easy, but uh, but once you
make your mind up to serve God that way as
a freshman in high school, way to go
(23:28):
Chaz.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It took me like a while to even think about
that for I came in as a freshman in college
and ultimately has kind of led to like where we're
at now, but kind of with the same decision. I
was like, do I either try to walk on at
Vanguard or do I pursue worship and that was for baseball. Yeah, baseball. So.
Did baseball my entire life from when I was 4
(23:50):
and that was just a decision
Speaker 1 (23:51):
and I've seen him play everybody, he actually is really
good in the infield. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (23:56):
it was great um but ultimately made that decision for worship.
Long story short, worship led to meeting Kaylee. Kaylee led
to meeting different parts of her family that then leading
to getting introduced to Vineyard and now.
being installed as a worship pastor at Vineyards. It's like
that one decision for me and my path led me
(24:17):
all the way to where I'm at now and the capacity,
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I think I think finding like your gifts and like
identifying the gifts that God's given you like naturally like
if you're really, if you're naturally a pastor like and
you're part of a baseball team and you don't want
Like you, you don't have a heart for local church ministry,
being a pastor to your baseball team is just athletes
(24:43):
or something like that. And like, yeah, I think just
identifying your gifts and what you're naturally good at is
how you can prepare yourself to serve the local church
or to your community.
In the best way because God works through those things.
So awesome. Well, as we wrap our time together, um,
(25:04):
how do people, I'm going to look at the communications manager,
how do people know about your church in Los Angeles?
Maybe some of our listeners there in LA and how
do they, how can they get in contact with your church?
Is there a website? Yes, there's a website and our Instagram.
I'm in charge of Vineyard Church LA.
And then our website is vineyard Church.la. Oh, that's awesome.
(25:27):
You can do it. Lla? Oh, cool. So whether you're dating,
whether you're married or you're just praying about what that
means and you're single, God has a plan for your life. Ultimately,
the plan is to stay with him and be true.
Relationship with him above all else. But until Jesus returns
or we go to meet him, God has a story
to write for you. So I hope you'll take Jacob
(25:49):
and Kaylee's story and their words and be encouraged and
continue to walk faithfully with Jesus. We'll see you next
time on Kingdom and Culture.
In Song of Solomon, 3 different times, the Bible tells
us to not awaken or arouse love until it so desires.
Kayle and Jacob are a newly married couple in the
last year, and they tell a story about how God
orchestrated their story. And so I want to encourage you
to get your heart ready to receive the word of
(00:21):
God in the framework of relationship. So let's go ahead
and walk into this episode of Kingdom and Culture with
Jacob and Kayle.
(00:43):
Honestly, we'll just get started because we only have a
little bit of time together and so you tell what
you want about yourselves, but I do want to give again,
um I did kind of accidentally, depending on one's theological
perspective here, I kind of did accidentally prophesy their marriage. Yeah,
so I'm just gonna start off with it. Why not? Um,
so they were in our chapel of Vanguard and you know,
(01:05):
it was around the time where couples might
Might not start dating and, and so I saw the
two of them, Jacob and Kaylee in our chapel in
the back and I said, are, are the two of
you dating? And they looked at each other like, no,
why would you say such a thing? They were almost
offended that I would even suggest that they'd be dating.
Oh my bad, my bad, um, uh, come to find
(01:25):
out that later, about a month later they, they did
start dating and then got engaged and then.
I'm just gonna call. I got to be the guy
that officiated your wedding. So all right, I've said enough
about me that's my perspective. So let's backtrack, get to
your story, go for it, how you guys met and such.
(01:47):
Yeah,
Speaker 2 (01:48):
well, it started at Vanguard. We had been on different
worship teams and I'm, I'm Jacob, by the way, and.
Uh, met at Vanguard, we're doing worship and just kind
of really didn't know each other that well. We just
kind of saw each other, but had different instances where
we would spend time together doing worship rehearsals, whatever it was,
(02:09):
and eventually just formed into a really good friendship.
And from that friendship, it got to that point where
we're like, no, we're just friends and so we thought
it was funny when you're like, Oh, you guys
dating
Speaker 1 (02:18):
I was like convinced that he's like my brother. Like
my parents would ask I talk about him. They're like,
don't you? I'm like, he's just like a brother I
was her pigtails or we
mess
Speaker 2 (02:37):
with each other. Yeah, we did, but I don't know,
like I just.
You know for a while it was just that until
I don't know just like I think just one day
it just switched I think it was for it took
Kaylee a little bit longer because for me I was
like OK I was set
Speaker 1 (02:50):
once
you knew that this is the woman for
you
Speaker 2 (02:52):
yeah but from then it's just been so many different.
Things that have happened within the last year. I know
you've been a part of it, which is, but it's
just a matter of graduating, getting married and moving and
now in our jobs and but it's just, it's been crazy. Well,
Speaker 1 (03:07):
let's
let's tap in a little bit of that. So um
just so that everybody knows we'll come back to it later.
But um so what are you doing now? Where if
each of you could uh
Let us know what position you hold at your church.
It's a vineyard church in Los Angeles, but yeah, just
that that kind of what's happening now and then we'll
kind of reconstruct how you got there because what I
(03:29):
want to show is like if there's like a 15
or 16 year old here, even a 20 or 21
year old wondering, God, what do you have for me?
Who am I going to marry? What am I going to?
do for a living? How am I going to make it?
We want to encourage people that God is faithful. And
so I kind of gave the punch line there in
terms of the goal. But yeah, tell a little bit
about what you're doing now and your position because I
(03:50):
know you, you, you, you're actually filling into your major
in many respects, but in a ministry context, and Jacob.
I guess business does apply to the church, the Lord's business,
but yeah, so whoever wants to start, maybe Kaylee will
start with you. Yeah. I'm the communications manager for Vineyard
(04:11):
Church and I get to do all the social media, um,
some design things and all like the mass communication like
emails and texts and
All that and I still get to do worship with
Jacob sometimes, but you were a communication at Vanguard, so
you're you're able to apply what you learned in your
gifts and talents there. Yeah, I actually, I wanted to
(04:34):
do worship going into Vanguard, but
I came in undeclared because I didn't know what I
wanted to do and I didn't think I needed a
degree to worship. So wherever you go. You worship God
wherever you go. But I communication.
I think my sophomore year I declared communication as my major. OK, cool.
(05:09):
And now you're
Speaker 2 (05:09):
doing it. And you said vineyard church now which vineyards.
It was West Side, but it was really cool. It
was the founding vineyard. It used to meet on the beach.
Santa Monica.
And so we have now just kind of transitioned instead
of there's all like kind of vineyards are distinguished as
we have like mid City, then we had West Side
and all this, but now we're just vineyard Church because
it's where it started
Speaker 1 (05:29):
and
and in Los Angeles. OK. So Jacob, what are you
what are you doing? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I'm
the worship pastor over at Vineyard Church, so handling.
Um, any and all things worship, production, that sort of
thing get to oversee multiple teams, which is very similar
to what I did at Vanguard, which was awesome because
had all that preparation that got me to this and yeah,
just being on a team as just the pastoral kind of.
(05:58):
Guy that people on the team can go to, people
are interested in music and production and.
Yeah, it's just, it's really cool to see how that
has kind of shifted my responsibilities in a way from
just leading a worship team to now like what I'm doing.
I've been here, it's been really good. I
Speaker 1 (06:17):
love it. You're 23, Kaylee. You're 24, Jacob. You guys
just got married.
In June, May, May of 2024. I should know that
I appreciated the wedding. It's in my calendar. I just
didn't have it in my head. Um, so, uh, I,
I love it because you're, you're serving God, you're, you're
(06:39):
getting a paycheck, praise the Lord in ministry, and that's,
I mean, count your blessings, name them one by one
type thing, right? Um, so we're gonna, we're going to
backtrack a little bit on that. So.
You guys met and you're in college you got engaged
after you graduated, right, Jacob? So you, OK, so you
then you while she was a senior at Vanguard, you got,
Speaker 2 (07:02):
she got the flex her ring on campus. Yes,
Speaker 1 (07:04):
she did and she did. Oh, she did like it
was the ring of power from Lord of the Rings
like she was like precious and so and
so it hurts
like, oh, your left bicep looks a little larger than.
because you're just lifting so much gold and jewels.
Yeah.
OK, that was fun. Thanks for going with our jokes
(07:24):
on that. That was great. Hey, um, so while you
were there, what, what, uh, what kind of thoughts were
you guys having? What kind of led up to you,
your heart's coming to a place where not only, you know,
here you are going to get married, but that.
Hey, ministry is where we're going, especially being non-ministry majors
(07:45):
in uh college, how did you, how did you come
to that place of peace to say, here my Lord,
send me, uh, in terms of your uh now current
chosen profession.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, I, yeah, for me, it was kind of crazy
because I think the
My the ministry aspect of it kind of happened before
me and Kaylee even really knew each other. It was
after SFG and the spiritual formation department at Vanguard when
I had gotten involved and I came in as a
business major, not really knowing what I was going to do.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Like at all and you transferred from San Diego State,
Speaker 2 (08:21):
San Diego State, and I was in engineering. Yeah. So
that was, I was like, I was good at math.
Let's do it. I I almost failed physics. It was
so bad. But I came in, not knowing exactly what
I wanted to do and it wasn't until like my
sophomore year, when I came to that realization that people
have always been my mission and this is ultimately what
I've always been doing but never knew that that's actually
(08:43):
what I wanted to pursue. And so that came into play.
And when I had met Kaylee, I don't want to
speak for her, but it was almost like we kind
of already had that set like that was already something
like this is what we're doing, this is what we're
pursuing so when we got to know each other and
we kind of progressed in our relationship that was never
a like debatable like it was always like no we
(09:05):
both have this foundation. I think that was a big
part of like what drew us together too is because
that was never a.
Maybe we do ministry and maybe we like no, it
was like, no, we're we're doing ministry. And
Speaker 1 (09:16):
so
it's kind of like you're both following Jesus together and
your paths converged as you're serving God, now you're serving
God together. I mean, that's oversimplification, but I think a
good picture.
Of a faithful pursuit of Christ first and foremost, and
then God brings your paths together to serve him together
(09:36):
and what a blessing that is that you, you get
to do that using your gifts and talents. Obviously not
limited to Jacob, you actually are a dry witty humor guy.
You could do stand up comedy, I'm sure one
Speaker 2 (09:48):
day if I got over my nerves. I'm sure
Speaker 1 (09:50):
right there you go. But you, you're up there leading
worship on a regular basis every Sunday at least and
then some.
Uh, you're helping with leading worship as well because Kaylee
also I, I've seen both of you lead worship quite
effectively and both of you have different styles too, which
I love, um, and, and God kind of does that too.
He brings kind of opposites track type thing. So, um, OK, uh, so.
(10:15):
You know, as we continue, uh, hoping to that, you know,
high school and college students are listening right now for
those that are listening, what would you say, you know,
in terms of now we're deconstructing from where you are now,
college sort of and you can dip into that a
little if you want, but.
I guess the question would be best framed, could you
(10:35):
have ever seen yourself, your high school self and young
college self following God first and foremost as you did
and then coming to this place of pursuing godly relationship together, um,
I guess, yeah, what would you say to your high
school aged self, uh, if you could tell that person.
(10:59):
87 years ago, hey.
God's got this. Trust him a little bit. Don't try and,
you know, date the next guy that comes your way
or the next gal that comes your way, Jacob, you know,
what would you tell your, your high school self in
terms of how God orchestrates relationship on a romantic level, um,
(11:20):
and how to trust some of that? I know that's,
that's deep and there's a that could go on any direction,
but hey, I'll let you guys walk that trail. Yeah,
I wish.
I could have, or I could tell my younger self
that like God's got it, like chill out. I was
like so obsessed with trying to find my person and
(11:42):
that led me to date like really bad people. And
I think I would just. Do you mind me asking,
maybe you haven't shared this with your husband.
How many guys did you did you date? I mean,
oh good, good. So it's not new. Oh, good thing
we got that out. So then you can tell us, yeah,
(12:04):
on the internet to the World Wide Web.
Um, I could count on two hands.
OK. Yeah, I did a lot of people. Yeah. And what, what, why, why,
and that's again, nothing against you for that. Uh, why
do you think that was for you? Well, high school
was weird.
High school, I was in like a rebellious stage. So
(12:27):
I was just dating to date because it was fun.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with dating, but I,
I wish I didn't just because it was kind of pointless.
The goal wasn't marriage. I was not thinking about marriage,
but I knew like I knew I wanted to get
married young and I wanted to have a husband, but
in high school I was not thinking about who my
(12:48):
husband because you can't know what you just don't know. Yeah.
And listen, I'm not.
Trying to angle for a I kiss dating goodbye thing
here that's not, that's not what we're going for here.
This is, but how do we, how do we make
sure we keep our eyes on Jesus, uh, whether you're
in high school, college, or postgraduate type life. I think like.
In college, at least for me, like I was so,
(13:11):
everyone's so obsessed, especially the Christian college with finding like
the one get their MRS degree. And I think, I
think the thing, the whole like
Just topic of the one is what we wrap our
identities into because then when we're dating somebody, it's like
all this pressure on this one person. And if something
(13:33):
goes wrong, then it's like, OK, they're not the person
for me. But with us, I feel like since it
happened so naturally and we were friends for a while beforehand,
we were like, wait, I like don't want to live
without this person and despite fighting and going through some
like hard times, wait.
You fight. Oh, you guys, nobody else fights. You're the
(13:57):
only ones
Speaker 2 (13:58):
not on good,
Speaker 1 (14:00):
good call, and that's on you, Jacob, that's on Jacob.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
She makes a really good point about, yeah, when we.
Obsessed over this like the one and looking for that
person and dating with that kind of mindset, it becomes
this checklist of like all these different things that we
might be looking for that we're looking that they don't
have and in reality what we have found and some
days harder than others, but it's about choosing that person.
(14:28):
Day after day after day and that pursuit, it's not
a matter of like, OK, they have to check my
boxes it's like I'm never gonna check all of her
boxes and vice versa in in a way, but it's
about I love this person so much. I want to
grow with them, I want to be better with them
and about choosing and I know that's something we found out.
(14:48):
Um, very quickly because I, I think we had mentioned
before that if it had been about finding the one
and meeting this criteria, we don't know if we would
have continued dating because that was somewhere where there was
always something coming up and we're like, man, we're arguing
till 2 in the morning or we can't get over
this one topic and if we had let that just
if it had been about dating, if we had come
(15:10):
to each other and it's like, OK, yeah, I wanna,
we wanna pursue this relationship, however that looks like.
And it had not been about that pursuit of that
relationship founded in the word and founded in what marriage
is supposed to reflect, then we would have just kind
of given up and just be like, this is too
much work, this is not what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Well, and could you say maybe, uh, you know, as
you look in scripture, 1 Corinthians 13 and love is patient,
love is kind, love does not boast, it, it does
not envy, it is uh.
And not self-seeking, love forgives, it, it, you know, it endures, um,
and you look at scripture and even in Ephesians 5
in the marriage context where men are to love their
(15:54):
wives as Christ loved the church, that's sacrificial, but in
many respects, women, you know, honoring your husbands, that's also
sacrificial because listen, I've been married for 22 years and
when my wife believes something.
And she humbles herself to honor me when she does
not want to do it. But um that's 22 years
(16:15):
talking right there. But you, so could you say maybe
love in the biblical Christian sense is less a feeling
and more a choice? Yes, yes, good answer. 100. Can
we put a 100 emoji? That's 100%. Yeah, I think.
(16:37):
If you don't choose to love the person, that's how like,
I feel like I've heard so many stories of people
getting divorced and they say like their love, they just
fell out of love. And like I think the feelings
of like
What's that word of like infatuation there are feelings nothing
against the well the arrows, the romantic love as scripture
(17:00):
talks about. And there's still that, but it changes in
a beautiful way. I think choosing to love someone despite
their flaws and
Like that's more beautiful than just being infatuated with the like,
what you think of how they
(17:20):
are. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (17:21):
that's what you want in a life partner you want
somebody who's going to choose you just be in a
honeymoon phase with like.
Whatever these things that you bring or whatever attributes
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Jesus does with us like he chooses to love us
despite our flaws, and he chooses us every day. What
role did your friends and your community play in your
uh coming together and staying together?
Because at your wedding I saw that there were people
on both sides, uh, your bridesmaids and your groomsmen, great people, um,
(17:55):
funny people, the guy's hilarious, dude, the guy with the
rose petal, your flower, your flower man Parker Parker Parker
did amazing. Sorry you had to be there, everybody,
Speaker 2 (18:05):
but he had a fanny
Speaker 1 (18:06):
pack, fanny pack with rose petals. It was great, great
flower man, um, so, uh.
Yeah, what, how, what did, what role the community and
friends play in your uh steps together?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
I think friends and community played.
More heavily into our relationship with Christ rather than directly
our relationship together. I felt,
Speaker 1 (18:32):
except for me, of course, I was like a direct
like you're dating and that's yeah
Speaker 2 (18:37):
but I found a we times and Kaylee would tell
me she'd go talk to her best friend when we'd
have a fight and shout out to
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Sarah
Speaker 2 (18:45):
go talk to Matt, my best friend, and it really
helped to.
Either have perspective or just someone to listen, but not
necessarily it wasn't to you didn't need someone to say
like you're in the right, you're in the wrong. It
was more so just having that ability to just talk
and we talk obviously there's talk of having healthy relationships, um,
(19:05):
with friends, but we felt in that regard, our friends
really helped feed just ourselves when we had those conversations,
but I think especially, and this is what I was
when you were talking and
The question about what we would tell our younger selves,
community plays so much into your relationship with God. And
I saw that in our, just our friend group at
(19:28):
Vanguard and then our church friends and everywhere around like
it just constantly was.
Conversations, it was constantly check-ins and it just really fed
and inspired us. I feel like to just keep, keep
on going.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
But would you say, well, Christ being your foundation, his
word together as you walk that together and you're pursuing
Christ together maybe communities is kind of the air you
walk through that is surrounding you, uh, giving you a
hope and fun and accountability. I'm sure you know there's that, uh,
even to this day, the accountability factor of.
(20:07):
Uh, as, as you have men of God, you can
as iron sharpens iron, so as one man sharpen another
or as an iron sharp, maybe a woman sharpening another. Sarah,
you mentioned your friend, um, uh, and, and so you
guys are getting sharp and continuingly in that, um, that's, yeah.
And you know, as we frame this time together, um,
(20:29):
you're obviously serving the Lord together, which again I think
is um.
It can branch out to others like you don't have
to be in a pastoral ministry or in a church
working as the communications manager to to serve God together.
You can be in any framework of serving God, but
in the church, whether you're in a pastoral position or
(20:50):
a leadership position or you're serving in the church as
a volunteer but uh doing your day job, um, in
light of all of that.
You know, getting back to how you guys are now
working together in the church, um.
In light of what you're both doing with you doing communication,
(21:12):
social media, graphic design in the church, and Jacob you
being the worship pastor, um,
How do I mean, we kind of touched on a
little bit with regard to the relationship side of things,
but how can a high school student or a college
student today prepare their hearts for service, whether that be
full time uh in the church or serving God and
(21:34):
through the church and in their uh their vocational calling. Um,
what kind of things would you say to
To uh maybe a junior or senior in high school
preparing to go to college and maybe somebody in college
is there walking that road. They're just trying to get
good grades, maybe play sports, maybe do music, whatever it is,
maybe they do have a relationship, um, but how, how
(21:56):
would you suggest they add into their framework of understanding.
And don't forget about preparing yourself for service unto the Lord.
Does that make sense? Yeah, that's kind of a wordy question,
but
Speaker 2 (22:07):
I like how you bring up sports. I have a
great example is this youth kid, his name's Chaz, and
he explained to me, he's like, yeah, like I decided
I'm not going to do sports in high school. I'm
just gonna focus on being a drummer for youth group
and they have a big youth group, like 300 kids.
And just what I got from that is just being
willing to sacrifice and having that mindset of things that
(22:31):
I want versus things that are gonna grow me and
that are gonna prepare me. So I'm not necessarily saying
you need to like quit this and do this instead,
but you have to have that mindset of I'm willing
to give this up if it means you're forming my
heart or you're forming my perspective and that just, I
feel like that's where service stems from is like.
(22:51):
I can give this up or I'm willing to give
this up. I will give this up. And he's just,
I mean, he's a freshman in high school and he's
deciding just right off the bat, I'm going to serve
the church. I'm not going to do sports in high
school and for me, I, I don't think I could
have done that because there
Speaker 1 (23:07):
is
Speaker 2 (23:07):
a
Speaker 1 (23:07):
tension there like you have practice and getting the youth
group and if you're, you can't do that if uh yeah,
you have all that that that other commitments. So you're
saying kind of go all in for Jesus type thing.
That's, that's powerful, not easy, but uh, but once you
make your mind up to serve God that way as
a freshman in high school, way to go
(23:28):
Chaz.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It took me like a while to even think about
that for I came in as a freshman in college
and ultimately has kind of led to like where we're
at now, but kind of with the same decision. I
was like, do I either try to walk on at
Vanguard or do I pursue worship and that was for baseball. Yeah, baseball. So.
Did baseball my entire life from when I was 4
(23:50):
and that was just a decision
Speaker 1 (23:51):
and I've seen him play everybody, he actually is really
good in the infield. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (23:56):
it was great um but ultimately made that decision for worship.
Long story short, worship led to meeting Kaylee. Kaylee led
to meeting different parts of her family that then leading
to getting introduced to Vineyard and now.
being installed as a worship pastor at Vineyards. It's like
that one decision for me and my path led me
(24:17):
all the way to where I'm at now and the capacity,
Speaker 1 (24:22):
I think I think finding like your gifts and like
identifying the gifts that God's given you like naturally like
if you're really, if you're naturally a pastor like and
you're part of a baseball team and you don't want
Like you, you don't have a heart for local church ministry,
being a pastor to your baseball team is just athletes
(24:43):
or something like that. And like, yeah, I think just
identifying your gifts and what you're naturally good at is
how you can prepare yourself to serve the local church
or to your community.
In the best way because God works through those things.
So awesome. Well, as we wrap our time together, um,
(25:04):
how do people, I'm going to look at the communications manager,
how do people know about your church in Los Angeles?
Maybe some of our listeners there in LA and how
do they, how can they get in contact with your church?
Is there a website? Yes, there's a website and our Instagram.
I'm in charge of Vineyard Church LA.
And then our website is vineyard Church.la. Oh, that's awesome.
(25:27):
You can do it. Lla? Oh, cool. So whether you're dating,
whether you're married or you're just praying about what that
means and you're single, God has a plan for your life. Ultimately,
the plan is to stay with him and be true.
Relationship with him above all else. But until Jesus returns
or we go to meet him, God has a story
to write for you. So I hope you'll take Jacob
(25:49):
and Kaylee's story and their words and be encouraged and
continue to walk faithfully with Jesus. We'll see you next
time on Kingdom and Culture.
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