July 22, 2025 • 27 mins
Can Faith and Movies or Christianity and the theatre arts get along? Sue Berkompas answers this question and more on K&C! Sue is the current Chair and Professor for Theatre Arts at Vanguard University, as well as owns her own theatre company in Southern California. Approved by nationally ranked theatre companies, Sue has been involved in the theatre arts for over 30 years. She creatively integrates her Christian faith with the theatre, helping tell God's redemptive story through the arts, while inspiring and raising up young, aspiring Christian actors and actresses.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
In 1 Corinthians chapter 9, the apostle Paul says, in
order to reach people, he becomes all things to all
men that he may save some. Now, I've often likened
that to drama or skits in the Christian context. Our
next guest on Kingdom and Culture for.
12 is Super Compass. She is a theater director. She's
(00:21):
actually nationally renowned, and she writes material. She's gonna share
about how she integrates faith into theater, and it's not
cheesy stuff. She's got quality. So let's hang out with
Sue as she helps us integrate faith and culture through theater.
(00:49):
How long have you been at Vanguard in this role
and um maybe color some other things in there as
to whether or not you have a dog or a
fish or a parrot or some other cool creatures at home, uh,
your husband, I don't know whomever but uh yeah, how
long you been there and and a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, I have been at Vanguard University in the role
of theater arts department chair for 27 years, and yes,
I cannot say I'm this old.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You're not old. You are wise and experienced because I'm
older with you because I was actually a student at Vanguard,
just finishing up as you came in. So, um, so
I remember you from back in the day, um.
But that's a, that's a good run. And you've been,
so you've been leading the theater department at Vanguard and
(01:42):
there can be a high turnover at times in university, but, um,
you know, uh, we'll get to the personal stuff soon.
But what has kept you there that long and in
theater in particular like to stay that consistent for 27
years with students, um, leading the theater department?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I did have a couple of opportunities
to leave through the years and it just wasn't right.
I just knew it was not right to leave. I
just knew that the Lord was telling me that he
wasn't finished with me here and um that I needed
to stay.
(02:21):
And so I did and it's all about the students.
It's always about the students and um I'll tell you
I've I've had some amazing, outstanding personalities and talents and
and um you know, just
Wonderful spirit-filled students over the years, students who are mature
(02:45):
in their faith, students who are just kind of finding
their faith, students who really don't quite know what their
faith is, if any, and that's such a challenge. If it,
if it was just students who had this strong um
Parent-based faith and it was consistent that way. I don't
(03:07):
think I would have stayed. You know, there's just a
plethora of um students in their faith, different faith walks,
and a lot of them really don't know what they believe.
Many of them.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Would you say in that, and we're just jumping right
in here. I love this, uh, would you say in
in your role, uh, there's kind of an evangelistic component
to what you're doing, utilizing theater as a way to
reach students who maybe don't have that clear definition of
faith from their parents like you said, or from wherever.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, the arts industries, as you know, um, theater.
Uh, film, television, they are very dark industries and God
needs his warriors ever so much more than ever, you know,
in those industries and if we are not training up
(04:04):
these people to go out and to be excellent and
to be called into these industries, who, who is going
to bring the word to these industries?
Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1 (04:15):
well, and to give some credence to what you have done,
I know of one or two cool things students have
left Vanguard to go do and during their time of Vanguard,
but please feel free to fill in some last 27
years of students that have gone on to do cool things, um.
Uh, one being, and this I'll just say it because
everybody loves this guy, Spider-Man. Isn't there a guy that
(04:35):
is Spider-Man at Disneyland and he was in the theater
department with you, but now he's, so that's Brenner Farr. OK,
so you have the guy's name. Hey, Brenner, thanks for you.
He got some promo there. So he's, is he currently
still doing Spider-Man at Disney or he was
Speaker 2 (04:50):
he was for a long time. I think he is
no longer doing Spider-Man, but then, you know, he's he's
doing all kinds of um
Uh, he works at Universal Studios too. Um, he does
a lot of stage combat type of
Speaker 1 (05:09):
he
he does some like cool move type things, choreography and
all
that
Speaker 2 (05:14):
right and he's he's, he was wonderful there, everybody loved
him and I think that he has an opportunity to
keep going back, but he's branching out and he's doing.
Other things. But yeah, there's there's a
Speaker 1 (05:30):
lot of yeah, what else do you want to share
of students that have gone on to do cool things
in theater and
Speaker 2 (05:36):
there's
a lot of students over the years who are doing
this professionally. Um, you know, Christina Kuzmitch has made
Quite a mark with two books out now, bestselling books,
and she started out as the Truth Bomb mom on Instagram.
I remember
Speaker 1 (05:55):
that I know her actually.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, that's right. And now YouTube and and um her
following is huge, um and she has made quite the
career out of her comedy and her self-help.
Um, information and um you know, the talks that she
(06:21):
has with huge groups of people. I think that she
targets mainly young moms and she gives all kinds of
really cool information about, you know, walking that walk and
and and not buckling to the demands of the culture
and the demands of um
(06:41):
How we think we should be as mothers and as parents,
you know, she's she's helped a lot of people and
she's huge. She's out there everywhere.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And so you get to say you were part of
that formative stage in her life. Would you say, and
I think you kind of already answered that, but would
you say that's part of the staying power for you
that you get to see this happen.
As you do everything in your power to train them
up both in quality and excellent theater and and training
(07:13):
them in that, but then also in faith and then
to see them go do that.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean we've got Emily Rose Mayer, I think she
went to school with her maybe, but she of course,
you know, starred in um yes, she was on Entourage.
She's more popular though she starred in the television series
Haven for 5 years. She's been doing film and television.
Ever since, um, she also with a partner now owns
(07:40):
her own production company and they're producing other people's works
and you know, scoping out fresh stories, um but she's
been doing this all of her life now. We've got
a lot of alumni who are doing musical theater, Broadway,
off Broadway, national tours, um.
(08:02):
We had someone just come off of a tour of
6 and off of Broadway doing doing the musical 6.
Troy Iwata's been doing film and television for quite a
while now and started on Broadway. Um, so yeah, we've
we've had, we've got a lot of alumni out there
working and if they're not working full time professionally, it's
(08:24):
still a side gig, you know, it's still something they'll
do if they've got a day job.
You know, they're still, they still have their hands in it,
so many of them do. Um we've got um Winter
Bassett and um Vince Catalina and um Jordan Lemlin who
(08:45):
just produced, directed and wrote and acted in their own
um independent film called Lost Joy.
Um, a psychological thriller, which is very good because I'm
very into psychological thrillers, and they duped me. I thought
I had it figured out and I didn't,
Speaker 1 (09:06):
but it's like a thing and you did not have
it figured out.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I
didn't have it figured out and I usually figure them
all out because
Speaker 1 (09:09):
you know all the
plots.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
It's just how my mind works. I can figure out
just about every second.
thriller very early on. And um they're winning all kinds
of awards and they're a blast. Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So there, there it is. So this kind of we
we delved into it, but it sounds like, and I
think like you said, Hollywood or anything in the entertainment industry,
whether music or theater or movies, TV, whatever can be
very dark. But when things are the darkest, to use
the classic phraseology.
(09:44):
Just the smallest light will light up a room and, uh,
you know, I've seen you in action. I've got to do, um,
I'm gonna just say that I got to do improv
with you and I'm not great at improv at all,
but it was fun and you, you are legitimately on
the front lines as you train these students in theater, um, but.
(10:08):
When, when they graduate, what would you say is your
greatest hope? Maybe part of that was realizing that all
the things you were able to just name the names
of students. They're not just people these are people that
you have a relationship with, but what is your greatest
hope is they're processing through their 3 or 4 years
with you in the theater department and then launching out?
(10:28):
What is your greatest hope both for them and for
what they will accomplish? And if I could say.
In terms of how do you want to see the
kingdom of God advance through the um the the creative arts,
if you will, through theater.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Well, you know, Mike, I think early on in my
career um
I was
Probably just really selfish and all I wanted was to
further my own career and to further my own resume,
to build my own resume, yeah, yeah, but I was
very self focused and I wanted to.
(11:03):
Build this theater program up big and far and wide,
and we did that, you know, we did a lot
of that. We got NAS accreditation, which is the highest
accreditation in um theater arts for university level.
And we are only one of 3 Christian universities who
have that NAST accreditation.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I didn't know that
that's a big deal. Now for those who don't know,
is that an
acronym?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
NAST is National Association for schools of theater and it
is akin to um WASP or university, but it's theater
arts programs. So
Speaker 1 (11:45):
An elite
Speaker 2 (11:45):
class. That's cool. I know we are and that's all God,
you know, because um we've always operated on very limited
resources and uh when I first came in, I wanted
to treat
The program as if it were a professional theater company
(12:07):
and so that's kind of how I just ran everything
and we've we've worked towards that and um
I also have a professional theater company called American Coast
Theater Company and it is about 15 years old now
and running strong and we do two shows in the summer,
um professional shows and then one Christmas cabaret, and this
(12:29):
also serves as a professional internship to our students who
need that bridge from educational theater to the professional internship
and they're required to take an internship as well. Um,
so yeah, it's, it's been
Kind of me centered in the beginning and I see
that now looking back, you know, hindsight is just bad
(12:51):
works in such great ways with hindsight and and um
being able to look back on your life and say wow,
that was all for me. And you know it's just
been lately and I think COVID really shook me up
as well as the world um and I realized that
I've just been living too much of, you know, um.
(13:15):
This life for me, even though I, I was following
Christ that whole time, but I could see the narcissism
and everything and I think we all have a little
bit of that. And um so now, you know, since COVID,
I've
Just ask the Lord, you know, there were some really
hard things that went down at Vanguard for for theater arts,
(13:37):
really tough things. And I just, you know, cried out
to the Lord, you know, whatever you want of me,
I will do, just show me, show me, show me,
and he has really shown me everything. Um, it is
really truly about the students and their walk and furthering
God's kingdom.
(13:58):
Through their gifts and we've got a lot of gifted
talented students who come in with a modicum amount of
skill and they leave, you know, ready to do Broadway.
They really are. We've got a fantastic musical theater program,
but um.
I'm very
(14:20):
saddened by by by what I see and hear sometimes
because these are young students who, you know, they're just
trying to find their ground with their faith and
I
I really try to impress upon them that it is
not about us. Theater is so much about me and
(14:41):
you know, um, accolades for me and me being the
center of attention. It is all about that and that
the arts does that to us and it really is
the crux of what what the arts is.
And
Speaker 1 (14:56):
would you
say you're kind of peeling back the veneer here right now? OK,
Speaker 2 (15:01):
peel it back, folks, you know this isn't about you,
it's not about me and if God wants you in
these industries, he's going to use you on his terms
and um it's it's gonna be about him and if
it I just had this talk again with my students
(15:23):
that because I, I.
Kind of saw some things happening, um.
Uh, centering around the last musical that we did that
people were getting hyped up and hyped up and hyped
up and, and it was all about, wow us, oh, cool,
we're so great, you know, this was great, the show
was great, we looked great, we sounded great. Our dance
(15:45):
was great and I saw that happening and it really
scared me for them and so I, I, you know,
talked with them about.
Remembering that this is not about you and that if
you make this, if you continue to make this about you,
(16:07):
God will take this away from you. He will. If
you're not honoring him and and furthering his kingdom.
And, and in this, to speak clearly to others about
who Jesus is and to, you know, be used as
his instrument in these areas if you're in this to
(16:31):
glorify yourself and not to glorify him.
Then he will take you out of it because he
wants you and he doesn't want to lose you to
the to the devil in these industries and so you know,
he's gonna hold on to you and what that means
is he'll start with the desire of your heart first.
He'll just take it away.
(16:53):
They'll just take it right away and you just won't
want it anymore and and and that's a lot of
times how how God works, you know, because he loves
you so much, he does not want to lose you
to this narcissistic um me centered culture and this me
(17:14):
centered industry.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Uh, there's the phrase preaching to the choir. I think
you're preaching to the theater, but not just that, you're preaching,
I think to anybody and everybody that will listen in
any industry, whether and I'll say this, the pastor on
stage who is used to being the center or the
worship leader who's used to being the center, or whomever.
(17:38):
The the all-star athlete that's used to being the center.
And I think you, yeah, that Psalm 374, you just
quoted it, that if we delight ourselves in him, he
will give us the desires of our heart. But then
what is the alternative to that if we don't delight
ourselves in him?
(17:59):
I never thought that reverse motion that it's possible God
could take it away.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Absolutely. I
Speaker 1 (18:06):
mean, I, I'm kind of speechless right now. I, I
did not expect as we're gonna have this podcast that
you were gonna start getting prophetic like this, but it
really is that. I mean, you're speaking about your craft, theater,
performing arts, and how that impacts the culture. But if
we conclude that theater.
(18:27):
And or performing arts or anything entertainment really is the
leading edge of our culture. It defines kind of as
a whole, whether we're Christian or not, where we are
as a culture, then you, you are then reverse engineering
that you're speaking to the fact that if we don't
uh as believers, if we're not careful with how what
(18:49):
we take in and or produce outward from who God
has made us to be.
That God is more concerned about our soul, about who
we are in him than he is about what we
do
Speaker 2 (18:59):
and our spiritual growth and our maturity in him, you know, um, yeah,
and that is why these industries remain so dark because
they're also me centered and self glorifying that it's really
a struggle. It's a constant um uh struggle to to.
(19:24):
To be sort of enveloped in these in these fields
and to keep yourself out of it. And you've got
to be strong, you know, I tell my students, if
you're going to do this professionally, you've got to have
um um
You've got to have a group of soul carrying Christian
friends who take care of you and hold you accountable.
(19:46):
You've got to be in a Bible study constantly. You've
got to be going to church. I know it's hard.
You're going to be doing a lot of shows every week.
Sundays are hard, but you've got, you've got to do it.pline.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So and that would be true like if you're in
high school or college, like wherever you are, whether a
secular school or a private Christian school, stay the course,
Speaker 2 (20:07):
course, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Um, man, so I, I mean, I knew you before,
but we haven't really, this is the first time we've
really sat down like this. Well, we sat down before,
but like getting into this like, um, I would even
say there's a pastor's heart in you to see these
students spiritually mature. Yes, and something that you love theater, um, but,
(20:31):
but making the main thing, the main thing, and that
is Jesus. And so I would say even to parents
or anybody listening that.
Considering if you want to be a theater major, I
think where Sue's at, which currently is Vanguard University, you'd
be in good hands uh to uh to be a
part of that. um, uh, you, you shared with me
(20:51):
probably sometime last year about a book or a playwright
or something you're writing, can I get into that? Um.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Oh, I don't
Speaker 1 (21:01):
you're talking
Speaker 2 (21:02):
about journey to the center of the earth that my
student and I. No,
Speaker 1 (21:05):
that's cool though.
They just, you just did that.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I wish you would have seen
that.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I didn't get to see that. Um, I heard
a lot of good things about it, but really fun
um you were doing like a spiritual warfare or something
or other, maybe that's on hold or
Speaker 2 (21:22):
it
is because I am crazy busy with this, but um.
You remember Edward Barchek? OK. Well, he and I, um.
For a little over a year, um.
have been writing a drama series, a limited series made
(21:45):
for television. Um, and we were pretty far with it,
but now after
Some consultation with um um a couple of producers and
a casting director who is a prolific casting director slash
producer as well, um.
(22:07):
Gave some really great feedback, um.
And said, this is great. You really need to just
sit down and write it because we have the
Series Bible, we've got everything, you know, all the characters,
all the characterizations, the series Bible, the um the synopsis
of every single episode, it's like 12 episodes, um, and
(22:32):
now we really just need to sit down and write it.
I have the um I have the first um the
first uh episode written.
Um, and the storyline is all, it's all there, but
we have to sit down and write the script. So
I have the first and
Speaker 1 (22:51):
it but it delves into the reality of spiritual warfare
to a certain degree. OK,
so, so it is.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I can't, I can't give away too much, but it
really is about the origin of the devil.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
And would it be kind of like not to cross
streams too much, but like screw tape letters with CS
Lewis gives us a little window into how
That communication line might be working in terms of behind
the scenes, what we can't see, but to give some
insight to that. Well, when and if it should arise,
so we look forward to that with only a few
minutes as our listeners, uh, what, um, what are some
(23:28):
things you're excited about that's up and coming as, you know,
practical things as you have shared your heart for students,
spiritually and practically? What are some things you have coming
up that you're excited about and
That students are gonna be a part of with what
you do at Vanguard and yeah, some productions you have
coming up and yeah, anything you got. Well,
Speaker 2 (23:47):
we've got um some really cool we've got an improv
team called Popular demand so if they're interested in improv
rooms and just you know learning about improv. I had
no idea that I was good at improv and apparently
I am. I've seen you've done.
Um, but it is essential improv in everything, you know, um,
(24:10):
Fortune 500 companies, um, book improv teams to come in
and teach their teams how to, how to do that thing,
you know.
Um, how to think out of the box and, and
how to the yes and all of that. So we
also have um shows coming up. We've got in the
fall and students don't even know this, so I'm hoping students,
(24:32):
I hope my students don't listen to this. I'll find
it Friday. It will be. OK, good. Um, so, um,
in the fall we've got um the musical Cinderella, the
Rodgers and Hammerstein, um Disney version of Cinderella.
And then um Elizabeth Bennett Christmas at Pemberley for our
(24:52):
Christmas show and then in the spring we've got um
Guys and Dolls happening that fun musical and then a
TBD drama that I'll be directing and I'm really just
fishing for something really great and you know, really intense
and something people can bite on and chew on and
And we also have a class that we just started
(25:15):
offering this spring called um educational tour, and they have
toured 6 different local public schools around the campus of
of Vanguard, and they have performed a 45 minute version
of Romeo and Juliet.
And have gone out, it's basically a PR tour and it,
(25:37):
you know, helps the students understand English students, drama students
understand better when you bring the book to the to
the performance level.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Well, what would you say um just to theater students,
people interested in theater out there, what, you know, high
school student, what what would you say would be your encouragement,
you kind of gave us some of that in the
course of this, but just an encouragement to them as
they
Um, delve into the realm of theater and performing arts
and their dreams forward. What would be a piece of
(26:09):
advice you would give?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I would say, you know, obviously train as hard as
you can in all areas, um, whatever area you're interested in,
whether it be musical theater, tech, design or um acting
for the stage and screen and directing. um.
Train as hard as you can, be as excellent as
(26:32):
you can and be ready to serve the Lord in
everything you
do.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I'm so thankful for people like Super Compass who have
chosen to let their faith be exercised through theater. With
all the darkness out there, it's wonderful.
To know that there's somebody shining light through the darkness,
utilizing their gifts. So keep Sue in prayer and as
she mentioned, you can follow her on Instagram or go
(26:58):
to her theater department at Vanguard through vanguard.edu. God bless
you and we will see you in season 2 for
Kingdom and Culture.
In 1 Corinthians chapter 9, the apostle Paul says, in
order to reach people, he becomes all things to all
men that he may save some. Now, I've often likened
that to drama or skits in the Christian context. Our
next guest on Kingdom and Culture for.
12 is Super Compass. She is a theater director. She's
(00:21):
actually nationally renowned, and she writes material. She's gonna share
about how she integrates faith into theater, and it's not
cheesy stuff. She's got quality. So let's hang out with
Sue as she helps us integrate faith and culture through theater.
(00:49):
How long have you been at Vanguard in this role
and um maybe color some other things in there as
to whether or not you have a dog or a
fish or a parrot or some other cool creatures at home, uh,
your husband, I don't know whomever but uh yeah, how
long you been there and and a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, I have been at Vanguard University in the role
of theater arts department chair for 27 years, and yes,
I cannot say I'm this old.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You're not old. You are wise and experienced because I'm
older with you because I was actually a student at Vanguard,
just finishing up as you came in. So, um, so
I remember you from back in the day, um.
But that's a, that's a good run. And you've been,
so you've been leading the theater department at Vanguard and
(01:42):
there can be a high turnover at times in university, but, um,
you know, uh, we'll get to the personal stuff soon.
But what has kept you there that long and in
theater in particular like to stay that consistent for 27
years with students, um, leading the theater department?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I did have a couple of opportunities
to leave through the years and it just wasn't right.
I just knew it was not right to leave. I
just knew that the Lord was telling me that he
wasn't finished with me here and um that I needed
to stay.
(02:21):
And so I did and it's all about the students.
It's always about the students and um I'll tell you
I've I've had some amazing, outstanding personalities and talents and
and um you know, just
Wonderful spirit-filled students over the years, students who are mature
(02:45):
in their faith, students who are just kind of finding
their faith, students who really don't quite know what their
faith is, if any, and that's such a challenge. If it,
if it was just students who had this strong um
Parent-based faith and it was consistent that way. I don't
(03:07):
think I would have stayed. You know, there's just a
plethora of um students in their faith, different faith walks,
and a lot of them really don't know what they believe.
Many of them.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Would you say in that, and we're just jumping right
in here. I love this, uh, would you say in
in your role, uh, there's kind of an evangelistic component
to what you're doing, utilizing theater as a way to
reach students who maybe don't have that clear definition of
faith from their parents like you said, or from wherever.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Yeah, absolutely. Um, the arts industries, as you know, um, theater.
Uh, film, television, they are very dark industries and God
needs his warriors ever so much more than ever, you know,
in those industries and if we are not training up
(04:04):
these people to go out and to be excellent and
to be called into these industries, who, who is going
to bring the word to these industries?
Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1 (04:15):
well, and to give some credence to what you have done,
I know of one or two cool things students have
left Vanguard to go do and during their time of Vanguard,
but please feel free to fill in some last 27
years of students that have gone on to do cool things, um.
Uh, one being, and this I'll just say it because
everybody loves this guy, Spider-Man. Isn't there a guy that
(04:35):
is Spider-Man at Disneyland and he was in the theater
department with you, but now he's, so that's Brenner Farr. OK,
so you have the guy's name. Hey, Brenner, thanks for you.
He got some promo there. So he's, is he currently
still doing Spider-Man at Disney or he was
Speaker 2 (04:50):
he was for a long time. I think he is
no longer doing Spider-Man, but then, you know, he's he's
doing all kinds of um
Uh, he works at Universal Studios too. Um, he does
a lot of stage combat type of
Speaker 1 (05:09):
he
he does some like cool move type things, choreography and
all
that
Speaker 2 (05:14):
right and he's he's, he was wonderful there, everybody loved
him and I think that he has an opportunity to
keep going back, but he's branching out and he's doing.
Other things. But yeah, there's there's a
Speaker 1 (05:30):
lot of yeah, what else do you want to share
of students that have gone on to do cool things
in theater and
Speaker 2 (05:36):
there's
a lot of students over the years who are doing
this professionally. Um, you know, Christina Kuzmitch has made
Quite a mark with two books out now, bestselling books,
and she started out as the Truth Bomb mom on Instagram.
I remember
Speaker 1 (05:55):
that I know her actually.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, that's right. And now YouTube and and um her
following is huge, um and she has made quite the
career out of her comedy and her self-help.
Um, information and um you know, the talks that she
(06:21):
has with huge groups of people. I think that she
targets mainly young moms and she gives all kinds of
really cool information about, you know, walking that walk and
and and not buckling to the demands of the culture
and the demands of um
(06:41):
How we think we should be as mothers and as parents,
you know, she's she's helped a lot of people and
she's huge. She's out there everywhere.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And so you get to say you were part of
that formative stage in her life. Would you say, and
I think you kind of already answered that, but would
you say that's part of the staying power for you
that you get to see this happen.
As you do everything in your power to train them
up both in quality and excellent theater and and training
(07:13):
them in that, but then also in faith and then
to see them go do that.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I mean we've got Emily Rose Mayer, I think she
went to school with her maybe, but she of course,
you know, starred in um yes, she was on Entourage.
She's more popular though she starred in the television series
Haven for 5 years. She's been doing film and television.
Ever since, um, she also with a partner now owns
(07:40):
her own production company and they're producing other people's works
and you know, scoping out fresh stories, um but she's
been doing this all of her life now. We've got
a lot of alumni who are doing musical theater, Broadway,
off Broadway, national tours, um.
(08:02):
We had someone just come off of a tour of
6 and off of Broadway doing doing the musical 6.
Troy Iwata's been doing film and television for quite a
while now and started on Broadway. Um, so yeah, we've
we've had, we've got a lot of alumni out there
working and if they're not working full time professionally, it's
(08:24):
still a side gig, you know, it's still something they'll
do if they've got a day job.
You know, they're still, they still have their hands in it,
so many of them do. Um we've got um Winter
Bassett and um Vince Catalina and um Jordan Lemlin who
(08:45):
just produced, directed and wrote and acted in their own
um independent film called Lost Joy.
Um, a psychological thriller, which is very good because I'm
very into psychological thrillers, and they duped me. I thought
I had it figured out and I didn't,
Speaker 1 (09:06):
but it's like a thing and you did not have
it figured out.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I
didn't have it figured out and I usually figure them
all out because
Speaker 1 (09:09):
you know all the
plots.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
It's just how my mind works. I can figure out
just about every second.
thriller very early on. And um they're winning all kinds
of awards and they're a blast. Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So there, there it is. So this kind of we
we delved into it, but it sounds like, and I
think like you said, Hollywood or anything in the entertainment industry,
whether music or theater or movies, TV, whatever can be
very dark. But when things are the darkest, to use
the classic phraseology.
(09:44):
Just the smallest light will light up a room and, uh,
you know, I've seen you in action. I've got to do, um,
I'm gonna just say that I got to do improv
with you and I'm not great at improv at all,
but it was fun and you, you are legitimately on
the front lines as you train these students in theater, um, but.
(10:08):
When, when they graduate, what would you say is your
greatest hope? Maybe part of that was realizing that all
the things you were able to just name the names
of students. They're not just people these are people that
you have a relationship with, but what is your greatest
hope is they're processing through their 3 or 4 years
with you in the theater department and then launching out?
(10:28):
What is your greatest hope both for them and for
what they will accomplish? And if I could say.
In terms of how do you want to see the
kingdom of God advance through the um the the creative arts,
if you will, through theater.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Well, you know, Mike, I think early on in my
career um
I was
Probably just really selfish and all I wanted was to
further my own career and to further my own resume,
to build my own resume, yeah, yeah, but I was
very self focused and I wanted to.
(11:03):
Build this theater program up big and far and wide,
and we did that, you know, we did a lot
of that. We got NAS accreditation, which is the highest
accreditation in um theater arts for university level.
And we are only one of 3 Christian universities who
have that NAST accreditation.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I didn't know that
that's a big deal. Now for those who don't know,
is that an
acronym?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
NAST is National Association for schools of theater and it
is akin to um WASP or university, but it's theater
arts programs. So
Speaker 1 (11:45):
An elite
Speaker 2 (11:45):
class. That's cool. I know we are and that's all God,
you know, because um we've always operated on very limited
resources and uh when I first came in, I wanted
to treat
The program as if it were a professional theater company
(12:07):
and so that's kind of how I just ran everything
and we've we've worked towards that and um
I also have a professional theater company called American Coast
Theater Company and it is about 15 years old now
and running strong and we do two shows in the summer,
um professional shows and then one Christmas cabaret, and this
(12:29):
also serves as a professional internship to our students who
need that bridge from educational theater to the professional internship
and they're required to take an internship as well. Um,
so yeah, it's, it's been
Kind of me centered in the beginning and I see
that now looking back, you know, hindsight is just bad
(12:51):
works in such great ways with hindsight and and um
being able to look back on your life and say wow,
that was all for me. And you know it's just
been lately and I think COVID really shook me up
as well as the world um and I realized that
I've just been living too much of, you know, um.
(13:15):
This life for me, even though I, I was following
Christ that whole time, but I could see the narcissism
and everything and I think we all have a little
bit of that. And um so now, you know, since COVID,
I've
Just ask the Lord, you know, there were some really
hard things that went down at Vanguard for for theater arts,
(13:37):
really tough things. And I just, you know, cried out
to the Lord, you know, whatever you want of me,
I will do, just show me, show me, show me,
and he has really shown me everything. Um, it is
really truly about the students and their walk and furthering
God's kingdom.
(13:58):
Through their gifts and we've got a lot of gifted
talented students who come in with a modicum amount of
skill and they leave, you know, ready to do Broadway.
They really are. We've got a fantastic musical theater program,
but um.
I'm very
(14:20):
saddened by by by what I see and hear sometimes
because these are young students who, you know, they're just
trying to find their ground with their faith and
I
I really try to impress upon them that it is
not about us. Theater is so much about me and
(14:41):
you know, um, accolades for me and me being the
center of attention. It is all about that and that
the arts does that to us and it really is
the crux of what what the arts is.
And
Speaker 1 (14:56):
would you
say you're kind of peeling back the veneer here right now? OK,
Speaker 2 (15:01):
peel it back, folks, you know this isn't about you,
it's not about me and if God wants you in
these industries, he's going to use you on his terms
and um it's it's gonna be about him and if
it I just had this talk again with my students
(15:23):
that because I, I.
Kind of saw some things happening, um.
Uh, centering around the last musical that we did that
people were getting hyped up and hyped up and hyped
up and, and it was all about, wow us, oh, cool,
we're so great, you know, this was great, the show
was great, we looked great, we sounded great. Our dance
(15:45):
was great and I saw that happening and it really
scared me for them and so I, I, you know,
talked with them about.
Remembering that this is not about you and that if
you make this, if you continue to make this about you,
(16:07):
God will take this away from you. He will. If
you're not honoring him and and furthering his kingdom.
And, and in this, to speak clearly to others about
who Jesus is and to, you know, be used as
his instrument in these areas if you're in this to
(16:31):
glorify yourself and not to glorify him.
Then he will take you out of it because he
wants you and he doesn't want to lose you to
the to the devil in these industries and so you know,
he's gonna hold on to you and what that means
is he'll start with the desire of your heart first.
He'll just take it away.
(16:53):
They'll just take it right away and you just won't
want it anymore and and and that's a lot of
times how how God works, you know, because he loves
you so much, he does not want to lose you
to this narcissistic um me centered culture and this me
(17:14):
centered industry.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Uh, there's the phrase preaching to the choir. I think
you're preaching to the theater, but not just that, you're preaching,
I think to anybody and everybody that will listen in
any industry, whether and I'll say this, the pastor on
stage who is used to being the center or the
worship leader who's used to being the center, or whomever.
(17:38):
The the all-star athlete that's used to being the center.
And I think you, yeah, that Psalm 374, you just
quoted it, that if we delight ourselves in him, he
will give us the desires of our heart. But then
what is the alternative to that if we don't delight
ourselves in him?
(17:59):
I never thought that reverse motion that it's possible God
could take it away.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Absolutely. I
Speaker 1 (18:06):
mean, I, I'm kind of speechless right now. I, I
did not expect as we're gonna have this podcast that
you were gonna start getting prophetic like this, but it
really is that. I mean, you're speaking about your craft, theater,
performing arts, and how that impacts the culture. But if
we conclude that theater.
(18:27):
And or performing arts or anything entertainment really is the
leading edge of our culture. It defines kind of as
a whole, whether we're Christian or not, where we are
as a culture, then you, you are then reverse engineering
that you're speaking to the fact that if we don't
uh as believers, if we're not careful with how what
(18:49):
we take in and or produce outward from who God
has made us to be.
That God is more concerned about our soul, about who
we are in him than he is about what we
do
Speaker 2 (18:59):
and our spiritual growth and our maturity in him, you know, um, yeah,
and that is why these industries remain so dark because
they're also me centered and self glorifying that it's really
a struggle. It's a constant um uh struggle to to.
(19:24):
To be sort of enveloped in these in these fields
and to keep yourself out of it. And you've got
to be strong, you know, I tell my students, if
you're going to do this professionally, you've got to have
um um
You've got to have a group of soul carrying Christian
friends who take care of you and hold you accountable.
(19:46):
You've got to be in a Bible study constantly. You've
got to be going to church. I know it's hard.
You're going to be doing a lot of shows every week.
Sundays are hard, but you've got, you've got to do it.pline.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
So and that would be true like if you're in
high school or college, like wherever you are, whether a
secular school or a private Christian school, stay the course,
Speaker 2 (20:07):
course, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Um, man, so I, I mean, I knew you before,
but we haven't really, this is the first time we've
really sat down like this. Well, we sat down before,
but like getting into this like, um, I would even
say there's a pastor's heart in you to see these
students spiritually mature. Yes, and something that you love theater, um, but,
(20:31):
but making the main thing, the main thing, and that
is Jesus. And so I would say even to parents
or anybody listening that.
Considering if you want to be a theater major, I
think where Sue's at, which currently is Vanguard University, you'd
be in good hands uh to uh to be a
part of that. um, uh, you, you shared with me
(20:51):
probably sometime last year about a book or a playwright
or something you're writing, can I get into that? Um.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Oh, I don't
Speaker 1 (21:01):
you're talking
Speaker 2 (21:02):
about journey to the center of the earth that my
student and I. No,
Speaker 1 (21:05):
that's cool though.
They just, you just did that.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
I wish you would have seen
that.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Yeah, I didn't get to see that. Um, I heard
a lot of good things about it, but really fun
um you were doing like a spiritual warfare or something
or other, maybe that's on hold or
Speaker 2 (21:22):
it
is because I am crazy busy with this, but um.
You remember Edward Barchek? OK. Well, he and I, um.
For a little over a year, um.
have been writing a drama series, a limited series made
(21:45):
for television. Um, and we were pretty far with it,
but now after
Some consultation with um um a couple of producers and
a casting director who is a prolific casting director slash
producer as well, um.
(22:07):
Gave some really great feedback, um.
And said, this is great. You really need to just
sit down and write it because we have the
Series Bible, we've got everything, you know, all the characters,
all the characterizations, the series Bible, the um the synopsis
of every single episode, it's like 12 episodes, um, and
(22:32):
now we really just need to sit down and write it.
I have the um I have the first um the
first uh episode written.
Um, and the storyline is all, it's all there, but
we have to sit down and write the script. So
I have the first and
Speaker 1 (22:51):
it but it delves into the reality of spiritual warfare
to a certain degree. OK,
so, so it is.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I can't, I can't give away too much, but it
really is about the origin of the devil.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
And would it be kind of like not to cross
streams too much, but like screw tape letters with CS
Lewis gives us a little window into how
That communication line might be working in terms of behind
the scenes, what we can't see, but to give some
insight to that. Well, when and if it should arise,
so we look forward to that with only a few
minutes as our listeners, uh, what, um, what are some
(23:28):
things you're excited about that's up and coming as, you know,
practical things as you have shared your heart for students,
spiritually and practically? What are some things you have coming
up that you're excited about and
That students are gonna be a part of with what
you do at Vanguard and yeah, some productions you have
coming up and yeah, anything you got. Well,
Speaker 2 (23:47):
we've got um some really cool we've got an improv
team called Popular demand so if they're interested in improv
rooms and just you know learning about improv. I had
no idea that I was good at improv and apparently
I am. I've seen you've done.
Um, but it is essential improv in everything, you know, um,
(24:10):
Fortune 500 companies, um, book improv teams to come in
and teach their teams how to, how to do that thing,
you know.
Um, how to think out of the box and, and
how to the yes and all of that. So we
also have um shows coming up. We've got in the
fall and students don't even know this, so I'm hoping students,
(24:32):
I hope my students don't listen to this. I'll find
it Friday. It will be. OK, good. Um, so, um,
in the fall we've got um the musical Cinderella, the
Rodgers and Hammerstein, um Disney version of Cinderella.
And then um Elizabeth Bennett Christmas at Pemberley for our
(24:52):
Christmas show and then in the spring we've got um
Guys and Dolls happening that fun musical and then a
TBD drama that I'll be directing and I'm really just
fishing for something really great and you know, really intense
and something people can bite on and chew on and
And we also have a class that we just started
(25:15):
offering this spring called um educational tour, and they have
toured 6 different local public schools around the campus of
of Vanguard, and they have performed a 45 minute version
of Romeo and Juliet.
And have gone out, it's basically a PR tour and it,
(25:37):
you know, helps the students understand English students, drama students
understand better when you bring the book to the to
the performance level.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
Well, what would you say um just to theater students,
people interested in theater out there, what, you know, high
school student, what what would you say would be your encouragement,
you kind of gave us some of that in the
course of this, but just an encouragement to them as
they
Um, delve into the realm of theater and performing arts
and their dreams forward. What would be a piece of
(26:09):
advice you would give?
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I would say, you know, obviously train as hard as
you can in all areas, um, whatever area you're interested in,
whether it be musical theater, tech, design or um acting
for the stage and screen and directing. um.
Train as hard as you can, be as excellent as
(26:32):
you can and be ready to serve the Lord in
everything you
do.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I'm so thankful for people like Super Compass who have
chosen to let their faith be exercised through theater. With
all the darkness out there, it's wonderful.
To know that there's somebody shining light through the darkness,
utilizing their gifts. So keep Sue in prayer and as
she mentioned, you can follow her on Instagram or go
(26:58):
to her theater department at Vanguard through vanguard.edu. God bless
you and we will see you in season 2 for
Kingdom and Culture.
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