15 Nov 2025

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:13):
Hi, I'm Mustafa Abadi, a member of the Australian team,
and you are listening to Laser Link with Peter Greco
on the Vision Australia radio network.

S2 (00:49):
It's just gone 5:00 as I walk. If you want
me to laser link here on Business Radio. Radio 1190
7 a.m., Adelaide, online at VA radio via Radio Digital
and Adelaide-darwin through the Community Radio Plus app. Look for
Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide your favourite podcast or streaming service.
You'll find us there as well if you're listening through 3.9%

(01:14):
in Western Australia. Hello to you. If you're listening to
the Reading Radio Network anywhere in Australia. Hello to you.
Anywhere in the world for that matter. And if you're
listening and, uh, catch the program on powered media. Media.
That's through the Disability Media Australia organization. You can find
leisure Link there as well as lots of great information.

(01:36):
And we thank Disability Media Australia for their wonderful support.
Peter Greco saying thank you so much for coming along
and joining us on the program. This program coming to
you from Gardiner Land, coming to you very soon. We'll
catch up with Mustafa. He is playing boccia and Australia
hosted a big tournament recently in Canberra. Will find about that.

(01:58):
We'll also catch up with Daniel Pauly from Little Athletics.
He's a club development manager. Also speak to Tommy Turbo
and Rebecca mattison. They're a coach and athlete or athlete
and coach to be exact. the Heart Foundation helped launch
a very big program for Little Athletics, a para pathways
program for young people with disabilities to get involved with sport.

(02:19):
Will find out about that. Pam Mitchell will join us.
Our resident counsellor. Pam's topic is gambling addiction. We'll speak
to Catherine Pereboom, who will talk to us about the
Melbourne Disability Expo coming up this Friday and Saturday. Your
personal invitation to attend is on the radio very soon.
We'll also catch up with Jack from Vision Australia, the

(02:43):
employment service. Apple have received an award regarding employing people
with disabilities. We'll chat about that with Vildana. And also
Doctor John Jorgensen will join us. He's a bariatric surgeon.
Talk about obesity. Maybe it's misunderstood. We'll find out more
from the good doctor before we go. Well, very recently,

(03:08):
a big budget tournament took place in Canberra in Australia.
Of course, a young man who was there was Mustafa.
Adi was the great to meet you and thank you
so much for your time.

S1 (03:19):
Thank you. It's it's a pleasure to be a part
of this entity. Thank you for the opportunity.

S2 (03:26):
Uh, we got to get the good people on. We'll see.
So remember that, uh, tell us about your involvement with boccia.
How'd it come about?

S1 (03:34):
Um, I thought I'd prefer Australia in two other sports, actually.
Hockey and football. Um, about ten, 11 years ago, and I,
I stopped playing that sports because they were a Paralympic sport.
And then, um, 20, 23, uh, pandemic. I decided I

(03:57):
wanted to get back in sport. And I thought, what
is the way you guys? I love games that are
very strategic and Became competitive. And then I thought, I'll
give it a go. And then I fell in love
with the sport. Honestly, my first competition was 2024, in
February in Canberra Cup, and from there, 19 months later,

(04:23):
I qualified and represented Australia. Becoming a trained Australian athlete,
which is a remarkable achievement. But yeah, it's. I've got
a long way to go, but I'm really proud and
honoured and privileged to represent the green and gold again.

S2 (04:43):
Uh, terrific. Well, uh, we'll talk about your future goals
before we wrap up, but, uh, what about the sport itself?
I mean, we've got a couple of very good Australian players.
I guess they're kind of good role models and good
people to kind of help you through as far as
any questions and that sort of thing goes.

S1 (04:59):
Uh, I'm very fortunate that the number one male 53,
which is the category that are playing and the number
abolition number two in the top five female players in
the world and BC are both from Sydney, where I'm from,
so I have so much to learn from them. But

(05:21):
it's really good to pick their brain, and I think
I'm very fortunate that the foundation I have from my
previous sports have have allowed me, has allowed me to
pick up, you know, all the different fundamentals a lot
quicker than you normally would. So I'm really fortunate than
than Michelle and James Layton training right alongside me, which

(05:46):
I honestly can't wait because in the past I haven't
been able to train because of me. And now in
the next 12 months, being able to train regularly alongside
me is going to help take my game to that
next level.

S2 (06:01):
Yeah, you're dead Again and Jefferson are a great people.
We've spoken to them regularly over the program over the years,
and there are certainly characters, and I reckon they'd be
more than happy to share their knowledge and their abilities
with you. Um, what about recently in Canberra? Tell us
about that competition. I believe it's the first time that
Australia has hosted a competition of this magnitude for quite

(06:23):
some time.

S1 (06:24):
Yeah, it's been 12 years. So it's it's been about 2013,
2014 games. It's been quite a while and we are
hoping to host a few more. And you know, hopefully
it'll only be a few years and not another series
the same. You know as you know we got the

(06:46):
Paralympics in Brisbane as well. So yeah, hopefully we'll be
able to hold a cup or two well before then
and help the sport grow and move forward.

S2 (06:57):
How big was it in terms of athletes in different
countries that were represented.

S1 (07:02):
Uh, there are 200 about 55 athletes with a quite big.
We had athletes from Singapore, India, Mongolia, Chinese Taipei, China,
Hong Kong, New Zealand, Spain, Australia. Uh, I don't know

(07:23):
if I've missed out on this. I'm trying to remember.
So it was a fair I and Malaysia, I was
there as well. And it was a remarkable experience seeing
how every athlete warms up and prepares differently. For me,
it's just like observing not only how I went, but

(07:48):
also how every individual prepared and plays. And I'm planning
to take a little bit of a little bit of
kind of a slice of how does a little piece of,
you know, every player that I can enjoy and bring
it to my own game kind of thing. And I

(08:08):
think that's what's going to make me a more well-rounded player. Um,
moving forward.

S2 (08:14):
I guess it's one thing to train. It's another thing
to see these athletes and compete against them. Um, you know,
kind of in real life, as it were.

S1 (08:21):
Um, I had a really tough pull in my one
I had because I'm coming in unranked, uh, the number
six in the world, the number 19, who I believe
have already been to the Paralympics. So just being in
that pool group alone with play that's been at the
top level for 5 to 10 years, it's such good

(08:45):
exposure and it gave me a sense of that. I
belong there on that stage and I know where I
want to work on. I know what I need to
work on, so it's just giving me a lot more.
I have excitement and yeah, I just can't wait to
get back into it next year.

S2 (09:03):
That's a great attitude. What about in terms of how
Australians or how the Australian players went? How did we go?

S1 (09:10):
Uh, we did fantastic. We had um we had three
in the semi finals for the first time and I
that we got a silver medal in the basic two category.
And then Michelle and James won the gold in the

(09:31):
BT three categories as well. And then we also secured
gold in in the pairs with Dan and James. Um, yeah.

S2 (09:42):
Dan and uh, Jameson were a little bit unlucky in uh,
in Paris. I don't know if you saw it.

S1 (09:46):
Yeah, I believe they were. I actually like I actually
stayed at for the morning watching the game again alive.
They were extremely unlucky in saying that, though they did
get the highest, um, you know, medal that in Britain
have has ever gone with a really great, um, achievement.

(10:12):
And yeah.

S2 (10:14):
We wish them well as well. I must, um, what
are you doing away from Bodger? You're you're, um, a
bit of a, um. Well, a bit of a student
as well. Or in fact, more than a bit of
a student.

S1 (10:23):
Uh, a lot like the, um, um, coach and counsellor and, um,
working towards a doctorate in clinical and sports psychology.

S2 (10:37):
Okay. Is that for personal use and for professional use
as well?

S1 (10:42):
Yeah. Well, I got, I got I did say to me,
you and my mother being yourself and believing in yourself.
I'm hiring to inspire millions of people worldwide, and I'm
a really big advocate on mental health, self and self-belief,

(11:05):
and being your authentic self. So that's why I'm doing
all of this kind of stuff. And yeah.

S2 (11:14):
Are you loving it? Is it a kind of a
study but also very enjoyable?

S1 (11:18):
I mean, doing that if I don't love it because
it is, oh my God, it's so much, so many
hours have gone into it. It's so stressful. But yeah,
it's so rewarding, especially when I have my counselling clients
from all different kind of, you know, mental health, um,

(11:39):
disorders and things that they're going through that they're able
to like, inspire and help them progress in their lives
is just a reward in didn't. You can't beat that
kind of. It's a feeling being able to help others.
You know, whenever possible. So that's something that I'm very

(12:03):
grateful for.

S2 (12:05):
And that lived experience of disability would be so important.
I mean, even it's not directly related to the person
you're working with. Just that lived experience can count for
so much.

S1 (12:15):
Exactly. Uh, I really love using my. Nickname for Pia.
I don't even know where can you. A young man
who homeless. And I came up to him and, like,
how are you today? And he goes, I'm not wearing
I'm homeless. And I'm like, yeah, and I can't walk.

(12:38):
What what.

S2 (12:39):
What.

S1 (12:40):
What's your point? And that, that completely broke the ice
and made him smile and talk to me like no tomorrow,
He said, you're the best I've ever seen. I'm like,
you know it. It's good to get, like, kind of
reaction from them. And sometimes I get people coming and going,

(13:02):
oh my God, I can't complain anymore. Like, what do
you mean? There you go. Look at like, you know,
they can't shock them. But at the same time, I
think my disability as an advantage because I don't live
my life like I'm in one. But when people see
the wheelchair, they're like, they feel really comfortable to open

(13:25):
up because they know I understand what they're going through
kind of thing. So it's really, um, I'm really fortunate
to be in that situation.

S2 (13:36):
That's a great message. I must be great to meet
you for the first time. I'm sure this won't be
the last time we speak. We, uh, wish you well.
Thank you for making time for us. We really appreciate that.
Congratulations on the rapid rise to being an Australian player already,
and I'm sure there's much bigger and brighter things ahead
of you. We look forward to following your progress and

(13:57):
speaking to you again in the future.

S1 (13:59):
Thank you very much, Peter. Hopefully I'll be talking to you.
Paralympic team.

S2 (14:05):
Um, well, it's a date. It's a date?

S1 (14:08):
That's the date?

S2 (14:09):
Yeah, exactly. Okay. Good on you. Thank you. That's Mustafa Ardati,
who's just been playing bocce in Canberra for Australia, first
time in Australia for over 12 years and Australia doing
very well and a very bright career ahead of our guest, Mustafa. Well,

(14:34):
it's been a big day today for particularly our young
budding Paralympians. Let's chat about it with the club development
manager from Little Athletics, Daniel Pauly. Daniel, great to meet you.
First time we've spoken. Welcome. And it's been a big
day for you today.

S3 (14:47):
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here, mate. And. Yeah, look,
it has been a very busy day. I would say
we had, uh, our first Beyond Barriers para pathway event today. Uh,
it's for children aged 6 to 17 living with a disability,
whether it's physical, intellectual or they may be neurodivergent. So
we have plenty of athletes and parents that made it

(15:08):
out and enjoyed themselves. Um, we're really lucky, I guess,
with what we're doing. We have such great support from
our coaches. And, um, we really utilized current para athletes
as ambassadors who are coming back and and being involved
in developing the next generation of para athletes coming through. Um,

(15:30):
we had athletes enjoy sprints, long jump, discus and shot
put frame running, which is basically a tricycle of sorts, um,
for athletes that have cerebral palsy and seated throws, which is, um,
a similar sort of a throwing frame that's taped down
or hung down onto a solid ground. And where athletes

(15:54):
can sort of stand and do shot put and throwing clubs, etcetera, etcetera. So, um,
we're very lucky because we had, uh, the Hart Foundation
out there showing their support to our program as well.
So we had plenty of support, plenty of people out
there and a lot of happy faces. So the day
went really well.

S2 (16:11):
Happy faces from the kids and I'm sure from the
parents as well. Daniel.

S3 (16:14):
Oh, 100%. And I think, you know, the parents can
really see the value in this. Um, as far as,
you know, the physical and the the mental and even
the social development for children, which is so important for,
you know, any child being involved in sport. But I
think particularly for those living with a disability, because it
can be so much more difficult for them.

S2 (16:34):
So you've got something like $30,000 from the Hart Foundation.
So it's a wonderful kind of kickstart, if you like.

S3 (16:40):
Oh, 100%. So we applied for the Heart Foundation Active
Australia Innovation Challenge, and that was basically a funding opportunity
for us to get a little bit of a kick
start with what we're doing. And and they really bought
into the program and what we're trying to develop. So
without them, this would have been really difficult to run. Um,

(17:01):
it's really given us a kick start, like I said, to,
to purchase new equipment to upskill coaches. And we've been
really lucky to be involved with them and they've been
supporting us. Ongoingly um, since we've received the application, which
is fantastic. And, you know, we've had a lot of
support in the development of this program from stakeholders within
our community. Um, we've got a partnership with sport for

(17:23):
all who do fantastic work for for any athlete or
person with a disability trying to be involved in sport
and Little Athletics Australia as well our, um, broader national.
So I guess you could call it their great support. Um,
our program falls under their strongly developed inclusion methods as well.
So we've had plenty of support and we're just keen

(17:45):
to keep it growing.

S2 (17:46):
So I guess you've got kind of a little bit
of an eye on, if you like, 2032 Brisbane. I mean,
that'd be a wonderful, wonderful location, but it's kind of
bigger and more wide ranging than that, isn't it? A
program like this 100%.

S3 (17:58):
And, you know, little athletics at its core is grassroots.
It's about everyone being involved in sport. It's about not
being necessarily the best. It's about just having fun. And
of course, we reward kids for for beating their personal
best rather than beating the the athlete next to them.
And I always think that little athletics can be really
humbling because there's such a wide variety of sports. So

(18:20):
one kid who's the fastest in the 100m probably isn't
generally going to be throwing the furthest in discus. So it.

S2 (18:26):
Teaches.

S3 (18:27):
From a from a young age that you're not going
to be the best at everything. And with that, and
as far as Paralympics is concerned, like, we would love
to see some of these kids make it to the
Paralympics one day. It's not not the whole reason that
we're doing it, but it could be a starting block
to that. And when we've got ambassadors like, uh, Katrina Webb,
who's a Paralympic gold medallist, and, and Malcolm Bennett, who's

(18:51):
a world championship gold medallist, and he's coming back and
is involved in a coaching capacity. We've got Lynne Larson
as a coach as well who's a gold medal coach.
It really has the potential to make a big difference, um,
with the development of these kids.

S2 (19:07):
And it's quite cool because it's kind of running, if
you like, hand in hand with the last few years,
the higher profile, the Paralympic Games, uh, tremendous coverage last
year from channel nine. You know, it kind of, uh,
it's easy to kind of identify with this now, you know,
I've spoken to athletes who said, oh, you know, to, uh,
you know, someone came out and spoke to me. I
didn't even know such a thing as Paralympics existed. So

(19:29):
it's much more broader now and much more well known
on a sort of mainstream scale, if I could put
it that way 100%.

S3 (19:35):
And like, it should be, you know, some of the
athletes in the Paralympics are absolutely phenomenal. What they can
do in in a wide variety of sports and, and the,
I guess, the mental sort of strength to overcome what,
you know, an able bodied person might not. And it's really,
really impressive. So I think that there's a maybe, like

(19:55):
you said, that maybe a lack of awareness of of
what's available and what's out there. And there are potentially
in South Australia anyway, not that much available for for
kids and obviously us being a 3 to 17 program
in general across Little Athletics, um, we feel like we
have sort of a responsibility to provide those pathways. And

(20:17):
little athletics really develops. Its a skill development program in
a sense. It develops your run, jump and throw. So
we're really a potential pathway into any sport that kids
want to do in a really good introduction into sport.

S2 (20:31):
That's a great point isn't it? Because I guess, you know,
the high profile, the elite athletes, those that winning gold medals.
We kind of get to know them and, you know,
want to put our arm around them. But, you know,
you've got to have that grassroots level that, you know,
they've got everyone's got to start somewhere 100%.

S3 (20:45):
And you see a lot of Olympians that are in
the track and field, etc., that, you know, they say,
I remember starting out at my little athletics club and
the benefit that that had for me, and I've got
a lot of love for little athletics. And you have,
you know, people like Matt Denny who have come back
and they're ambassadors of, of little athletics. And it makes
such a difference when you have, you know, athletes like

(21:06):
that that are at the elite level, that are coming
back to little athletics clubs and, and showing them that, that,
you know, it all starts here basically.

S2 (21:14):
Daniel, what about geographically, how kind of far and wide
did this program go? You know, how far does it
spread its tentacles?

S3 (21:21):
Well, the program itself, um, it runs fortnightly on Saturday mornings.
It's at the Saff Stadium in, in Mile End. So
I think at this stage, what we really wanted to
do is develop a program that's sustainable. So we're doing
fortnightly training sessions, I guess, in running linear to the
program itself, where we've created, with the assistance of Little

(21:43):
Athletics Australia, again, a coach of para athletic coaching course.
So that's to sort of increase the capabilities of people
in this space. The more coaches that we have, the
more people that are comfortable in coaching children with disability.

S2 (21:59):
Yeah.

S3 (22:00):
Or we can grow. And what we've seen is, you know,
we had at the coaching course, we had a coach
from Barmera Berri, which is.

S2 (22:07):
Fantastic.

S3 (22:08):
Riverland. We had one from Mildura. We've had a kid
from Waikerie come out to the program as well. So
we would love to, you know, long term be able
to make this sustainable in regional areas as well. But
the the main priority now is build the capabilities in
central Adelaide and then try to tentacle out from there.

S2 (22:26):
What about in terms of wanting to find out more
if there's a parent, or if there's a young child
between 3 and 17. And congratulations are showing great taste
to listen to this program. Um, where would they go
to find out more?

S3 (22:39):
Yeah. Look, if you're aged between 3 and 5 or
3 to 4, I guess you can join a little
athletics club. We have a fantastic tiny Tots programme, which
is all for skill development and motor skills. The para
programme itself is for 6 to 17. So if they
want to get involved, just go on to our website.
Right little Athletics South Australia and into Google and you'll

(23:00):
see very quickly on our website. It's one of the
rotating tiles on there. Just click on that and it'll
take you to a registration page. Um, you'll also have
an email if you're on that website that you can
contact me basically, and we can have a chat if
you have any other questions. But the program is taking
registrations ongoing. It's completely free. Really important part of this

(23:21):
program and the funding that we got from the Heart Foundation,
we wanted to reduce barriers as much as possible. So
making this program completely free and and we are accepting
registrations at any time so anyone can sign up at
any point. And you know, we'd love to to to
have you out there.

S2 (23:36):
No physical or financial barriers. I like that, Daniel. That's
very good, very inclusive, very accessible. We'll put those details
up with our show notes so people can go there
if they have any difficulty. And we can certainly help
them out if they want to contact. Here's the radio station. Daniel,
congratulations to you. Well done to the Heart Foundation. It's
a tremendous initiative. I know it will go from strength

(23:57):
to strength. And as you said, who knows? Not that
it really matters, but there might have been someone out
there today that in seven years time, you know, that
might have been where they got their start.

S3 (24:06):
Yeah, that would be fantastic, mate. And thank you for
having me. It was a pleasure to be here.

S2 (24:11):
It's Daniel Pauly there who's the development manager for Little Athletics.
With that wonderful program underway and well done to the
Heart Foundation, $30,000 is not an insignificant amount of money
to put that in for this program to go from
strength to strength.

S4 (24:26):
You're in elite company Listening to Lashley here on Business Radio.
Radio via radio, Digital via radio and through the TuneIn
radio app.

S2 (24:39):
Well, we spoke a bit earlier about the Little Athletics
Power Pathways program. Let's catch up with a couple more
people about and speak to Tommy Turbo. Thomas Madison, good
to meet you. Thanks for your time.

S5 (24:50):
Thanks for having me.

S2 (24:52):
And Coach Rebecca is online with us as well. How
are you, Bec?

S6 (24:55):
Very well, thank you Peter. Very well.

S2 (24:57):
Now, the launch was earlier today. We spoke to Daniel
about that. Tommy, tell us a bit about how you
race and the equipment that you use.

S5 (25:05):
I race using a three wheeled frame and I use
a bike seat to sit on, and I use a
chest plate to transfer my weight into the front of
the device. And there's no pedals for the frame. So
you just your legs all the pedals.

S6 (25:27):
Essentially, he also uses a seat when he does throws
for shot put and his form of javelin, which is
called club as well. He uses the frame for running,
which supports his weight, and a seat that he sits
on is strapped to to do all of his field events.

S2 (25:44):
How did you find this frame? Is it something that's
kind of universal? Because I know Tommy's been overseas racing.
So how'd you kind of come across the equipment in 2020?

S5 (25:54):
My mom found this woman called Amy Tobin, and she
runs a program called now I Can Run. And she
had frames in Australia, and they were available to test
at a common try. And we went to that common try.

(26:15):
And I fell in love with it ever since.

S2 (26:18):
Fantastic. What sort of distances do you race over when
you're doing the running events?

S5 (26:22):
I know 100, 400, 300.

S2 (26:27):
Okay, I bet you're a coach. Could it take much
adjusting from your point of view to coach and sort
of work on the sort of theory of this?

S6 (26:34):
Yeah, so I did my level two coaching once. I
found that Tom had fallen in love with this sport,
and really, it started from him being a ten year
old that really needed to get fit. And because he
has severe cerebral palsy, running quickly and getting fit wasn't
in our scope. So that's when we fell into the
sport of frame running, which was very new in Australia.

(26:56):
And as any parent does, you basically find out as
much as you can. And then I got resourceful, so
to speak. So transferring a normal running style to a frame,
really it's on the individual person that you're working with
because everybody has strengths and weaknesses when they're sitting on
the frame, because cerebral palsy comes in all sorts of forms.

S2 (27:18):
Sure.

S6 (27:19):
So it's a matter of adapting the frame and adapting
their running style to suit how their body works.

S2 (27:26):
Hey, Tommy, how much is your time improved since you
first started over the 100 or 200? How much time
have you knocked off your PBS then?

S5 (27:33):
Knocked off by quite a bit now.

S6 (27:36):
So I think his first 100 race, he raced at
about 38 seconds for 100m, and last weekend he ran
a 22nd PB.

S5 (27:47):
It was great for the time. We got very excited
when we got the PB back. Then we cut it
down by almost 10s.

S6 (28:00):
Yeah, we've we've come down a lot. We definitely are moving.
And each time I make a new goal with Tom,
each time he breaks that goal so quickly, we have
to make another goal, which is a good thing to
have happen.

S2 (28:11):
Yeah. Keep goal setting. Hey, Tommy, you've been overseas, haven't you,
with this? Is that right?

S5 (28:14):
Yes.

S2 (28:15):
Where have you been?

S5 (28:16):
I've been to Copenhagen, Denmark, competing in the Cpisra games,
and it's a games where all athletes with cerebral palsy
or mobility issues can come and attend, and it's there
every year. And I have been there for four years

(28:39):
in a row competing for Australia.

S2 (28:42):
I hear that 2028 might be on your calendar.

S5 (28:45):
Yes.

S2 (28:46):
Why is that?

S5 (28:47):
The Olympics in Los Angeles?

S6 (28:50):
That's right. So yes, only this year has the sport
made it into the Paralympics for the first time. It's
only the T-72 classification which is the higher classification, but
they're running 100 and 400 meter distances. So at the
moment Tom is the open men's national champion. He's working
really hard to try and make it for next year

(29:11):
to Oceania in Darwin. And then, you know, looking forward,
obviously training very hard to try and make it on
a Paralympic squad to go over to Los Angeles or Brisbane.

S2 (29:20):
Yeah, of course, Brisbane in 2032. But what about from
your point of view? Of course. This program has just
been launched. What does it mean for kids that are
coming through the system? I mean, we spoke a bit
about it with Daniel, but what about from your point
of view, particularly from a coach's point of view?

S6 (29:33):
It's a fantastic opportunity for people to come along and
try different sports in a very non-judgmental way. And we
can cater to just about anybody's needs, which is lovely.
It's not hectic on the track, so if you have
someone with autism that struggles with loud noises and things
like that, we try very hard to accommodate their needs.

(29:54):
But the program itself is really designed to just give
you a flavor or a taste of, of sports, and
we can coach them over a number of weeks and
find the right equipment, because that's another challenge that you
have where you'll learn quickly depending on the people turning up,
what sorts of things that you might need, and then
adjusting things and getting them moving and running and doing

(30:15):
really fabulous things that make them feel fast and have
lots of fun.

S2 (30:20):
Very important and a big thanks to the Heart Foundation
for their support for the funding they've given you guys. Hey,
tell me what sort of differences have made to your
life being able to do this.

S5 (30:28):
In frame running? It's made a massive difference in my
life because if I didn't find frame running, I would
I would be as unfit as anything. And my hip dislocation,
I have dislocated hips. And what that's been able to

(30:49):
do is realign them. And it makes it easier to balance,
easier to do most everyday things.

S6 (30:57):
So where Tom had a lot of muscle wasting and
problems with his hips, it has been upright and running.
It's put weight through those hip joints and he's now
avoided having surgery to his hips. But not only that,
I think mentally all the problem solving that he has
to do the communication. Just going out and talking to

(31:17):
anybody out there and having the confidence to do that
has been life changing for him. And I also think
it's given him a purpose. So he's an ambassador for
Little Athletics, and that's been a really amazing opportunity for Tom,
because it's allowed him to speak in front of audiences
and share his knowledge, support other athletes in their journey

(31:40):
from beginners up to more advanced athletes, and sharing those
challenges and finding connection within his community. So it's meant
an awful lot to us as a family and obviously
to Tom personally. So he's fitter, but he also gets
that lovely stimulation of building a whole community where he
feels safe and valued and all those important things.

S2 (32:00):
And educating a lot of people that otherwise might not
know about it.

S6 (32:03):
Absolutely.

S2 (32:05):
Hey, Tommy, who gave you your nickname, Tommy Turbo? Is
that self-appointed, or did someone give you that?

S5 (32:09):
Someone gave me that.

S2 (32:12):
Hey, tell us a bit about your throwing events. How
does that work and which is your favorite there?

S5 (32:16):
You have straps to anchor your bum on the seat,
because if you somehow lift your bottom in a competition,
they will make that a foul.

S6 (32:31):
So Tom sits on a specialized seat that has a
foot plate and his feet are strapped to the foot plate.
He has his thighs anchored and his waist is also anchored,
and that keeps his body absolutely still. And then he
has to use his upper body to do the normal
shot put motion of a shot put. So it's no
different to an upright motion, except obviously he's not rotating,

(32:55):
he's just putting the shot. And then in addition to that,
he throws a club and club replaces a javelin. Giving
Tom a sharp implement probably isn't the best idea. So
we give him a club instead. And he actually sits
backwards on the seat and throws backwards over his head.
It is an amazing sport to watch. You can't believe

(33:16):
how far he can throw. Just tossing a club which
looks very much like a bowling pin with a weight
on the bottom, slightly smaller, and he will toss that
over his head and he can't see where it's going
to land, but he can tell if it's been a
good throw by the sound it makes when it hits
the ground.

S2 (33:33):
Hey Tommy, I reckon your muscles would have got a
bit bigger over the years, wouldn't they? Your arm muscles?

S6 (33:38):
Very much so.

S5 (33:39):
When I'm running, I go turning left and turning right.
And that's made my muscles grow.

S6 (33:47):
Yes, his brothers are slightly disappointed because he's actually more
ripped than they are. Well done.

S2 (33:54):
Well, long may it be so. Tommy and Rebecca, thank
you so much for speaking to us. And well done
again to the Hart Foundation wins Oceania.

S6 (34:00):
That will be the middle of next year.

S5 (34:03):
And it is a qualifier for the World's.

S6 (34:07):
Fair, the world's and for obviously for getting into the Paralympics.

S2 (34:12):
Right. We've got to your details. So we might touch
base with you around about that time and see how
you go. But no pressure, Tommy. Okay.

S6 (34:18):
Yeah. That would be amazing. No, we would love to
give you an update.

S2 (34:22):
Thanks to both of you for speaking to us. And again,
well done to the Heart Foundation as well.

S6 (34:25):
Thank you. And Heart Foundation. You do an amazing job.
You know, we wouldn't be able to do this without
their support. So it matters a lot.

S5 (34:32):
Thank you very much.

S2 (34:33):
That's Tommy Turbo Tommy and also Rebecca Madison. Tell us
about that pathways program for Little Athletics. We'll put those
details up on our show notes. We spoke about it
earlier with Daniel. And if you'd like to access them
go there and you'll find out a bit more about it.

S7 (34:49):
Hi, I'm Angie Ballard, co-captain of the 2024 Australian Paralympic Team,
and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on
the Vision Australia radio network.

S2 (35:11):
What? Around about this time of the afternoon, the third
week of each month, we catch up with our resident counselor,
Pam Mitchell. Pam. Welcome again.

S8 (35:18):
Thank you, Peter, and hello to everyone that's listening in today.

S2 (35:22):
Pam. Obviously, the last few weeks have had a bit
of racing in the mainstream headlines with, uh, the Melbourne Cup, etc.
you're going to talk about a serious topic, gambling addiction.

S8 (35:31):
Yeah, it's a bit important, isn't it? Um, and we,
we do see a lot of it. Um, Australians are
pretty notorious. And the statistics show that that, that we
do like to have more than a flutter and a flutter,
you know, Melbourne Cup, Caulfield Cup, whatever it is, we
all have a little bet at work or a sweep
or something like that, and that for most of us,

(35:52):
and we just walk away from that and are happy
that we've done that. But, you know, it can be
far more serious, of course. And today we're talking about
the more serious aspects of that, where it becomes something
that people feel they just cannot Resist that they realize
something is ended. Their system where there is a compulsive

(36:12):
need to go and, um, place money in some way.
And there are things that people would be aware today.
Not only do we have Alcoholics Anonymous, but we have
Gambling Anonymous. Uh, we also have helplines and and I'll
just start this with a couple. If you someone can
grab a pen somewhere or a computer and put these in. Um,

(36:35):
if you know of anyone that needs help or you're
listening yourself and you know you want help, there's a
national gambling helpline, uh, completely online service available 24 over seven.
And the number is a very easy one. It's 1808
58858 1808 58858. That's Australia wide. In South Australia there's

(37:02):
Gamblers Anonymous and that is a bit like an Alcoholic
Anonymous where you actually go to meetings. And the number
for that is a local number 8212693. They have meetings
in various suburbs and you can go. You don't have

(37:22):
to say who you are. You can just sit there,
be with others, learn and seek help. Uh, you can
take someone with you, which is a good idea as well.
So these things exist. Also, people that work in this
sphere also can help. I see people that have a
range of addictions, and that also includes gambling addiction or

(37:43):
propensity to be an addiction. People that want to come
early because they're noticing a tendency. And so you can
reach out to counsellors for that purpose. It's important to
recognize that sometimes it's just not a gambling issue that
we're involved in. I mean, that kind of that can
have emerged from other circumstances. It can be because of

(38:05):
our mental health state that we're suffering from some form
of depression and anxiety that's occurred in our life, and
we suddenly find ourselves turning to an outlet. We might
just be going into a pub and having a drink,
and we find ourselves sitting in front of a poker machine,
but then it becomes a habit to recognise that again,
escape from the real world, go in and get some

(38:25):
comfort with ourselves with a drink and pulling that handle,
hoping for something that's going to give us a ray
of sunshine in the day. Sooner than later, that becomes
something that becomes far more regular and can become out
of hand. People that are lonely, people that feel isolated
and don't have much social connection around them. People that
have been bullied and harassed. People that possibly are in

(38:49):
debt and owe money back and are feeling at risk
in their lives or and their family or exposure at work,
for instance. And they decide I'd they will gamble because
that may be a way out of this. They may
be told by some people that are saying, you owe
us this much, or they're being bullied, and people will say, well, stop.

(39:13):
If you give, give us this. And so they're hoping
that that will happen. But of course it doesn't. It
just becomes a link in where they're further involved. It
can link also with other addictions. So you know, you
may be a gambler but it can link with substance abuse.
It can link also with uh, DV uh, where we

(39:34):
we're not able to control our mood. That can come
from mental health issues or financial difficulties, for instance, relationship breakdowns,
legal issues, all of these things that can implicate that process.
So drug addiction, alcohol addiction, plus these life issues, things
can have a ripple effect if you like. And the

(39:57):
swells get larger and larger and that it gets deeper
and deeper. It's like being in a pool. You find
yourself not being a very good swimmer, and you're suddenly
in the deep end trying to tread water. But what's
happening is you're sinking, and you can't make your way
back to the shallow end to rescue yourself, to get out.
So it starts very simply in some cases. Oh, let's

(40:21):
go to the casino. The social club says. So you
get there and you have a spin on the chocolate
wheel or whatever they call it. And and the thing
goes around and you think, oh, that's going to be me,
but it's not. So you have another go and another go.
And then before, you know, you've spent a little bit
too much. It can be random nights, social club nights.
It can be bets on the Melbourne Cup, whether that's
in a pub or at the track. It can be

(40:43):
a syndicate persuaded to go into a weekly pool or
something of that nature. People can notice things and changes
in us when we are in that sphere. So it
can be a school teacher that just noticing you're a
bit sluggish. Um, and, you know, you just seem to
don't seem to be wearing the same clothes. You're not
eating properly, you're losing weight, and you think, what's going

(41:06):
on with that person? Not recognizing that there may be
a juvenile who is actually getting involved with themselves in debt. Um,
parents notice it, of course. Partners, siblings, our friends, our workmates,
our employers, banking and finance bodies sending out more and
more to say that you're further and further not meeting
your repayment repayments. Sporting coaches, colleagues, our own children. I

(41:32):
have a story like to include a story occasionally just
to bring some real life to what I'm talking about.
This is years ago and I was in Rundle Mall
and went in to buy a lottery ticket, and I
was aware of this person with two little kids standing
next to me, and he was buying an instant money ticket.
My lottery ticket I was about to leave his was
instant ticket. So you scratch, scratch scratch which kids are

(41:56):
helping him, and all of a sudden he said, ah,
we've won. Now we can go and pay the electricity bill.
And I just realized in that moment that that was
not something that was unusual for kids. This was obviously
something they did as a means to be able to pay.
But I wonder how many days that he went that
he wasn't able to pay. It really struck me very

(42:17):
seriously that day. I've never forgotten that. So look, we
bet on things. A lottery tickets, instant money tickets. We, uh, uh,
reach out and think that that sports betting thing will
only be a once only. But suddenly we discover it's
not poker machines. As we said, 2 in 5 adults
gamble on something at least weekly. 73% of us gamble

(42:42):
on something in Australia, and with 30%, 38% of those
doing that on a weekly basis. So it is about
reaching out before this gets further out of hand, possibly
inviting a good mate, a buddy. It happens to females
and males, not just men, to come with you to
a meeting. One of these gambling anonymous meetings. They can

(43:05):
come with you. They can be your your set of
wheels to take you, um, sit there with you, support you.
If you come to reach out to a person professionally,
they will provide a nonjudgmental environment for which is confidential
for you to begin to set some of your own
boundaries and to be able to journal things and your achievements,

(43:25):
and to be able to come and have a means
to celebrate the achievements, but to find future goals on, uh,
for the coming week, to be able to keep to
those goals that you were able to and then extend
them further and to recognize this is a life commitment.
This is a journey not for counselling, but the need
to actually change a lifestyle, to get some extra help,

(43:49):
to build the self-respect, the self-esteem and to feel like
again that you can hold your head up high. You
can go out in public or wherever it is. You
can have friends and feel that you're not a victim
to this gambling, uh, addiction.

S2 (44:03):
I am wonderful, and we do appreciate your, uh, stories
that you relate so well regarding, uh, actual things that
have happened. So thank you for that. Now, for people
to contact you. You are a counselor by profession.

S9 (44:13):
0418 835 767 always here.

S2 (44:18):
Now, we'll speak to you in December, for I think
I can call it your time honored Christmas message that
you've done for the last, I think, 21 years. So
we look forward to, uh, the, uh, third week in
December and we'll catch up then.

S10 (44:30):
And looking forward to it about to decorate the sleigh.

S2 (44:32):
Okay, Mitchell, they're our resident counselor. 0418 835 767. Should you wish
to contact Pam.

S11 (44:42):
Keep in touch with Vision Australia Radio in Adelaide on
1190 7 a.m..

S2 (44:48):
Let's talk about employment such an important topic. Recently, Apple
were awarded to by Virgin Australia for their work in
the employment sector. Let's chat to a project from Australia.
Lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

S12 (45:02):
Thank you Peter. Thank you for having me.

S2 (45:03):
This is obviously pretty good. A company like Apple can
be recognised for employing or making employment a bit more inclusive.

S12 (45:10):
Absolutely. And we've been working with them for, um. Yeah,
two years now. They're really excellent partner in kind of
creating those opportunities for people who are blind or have
low vision to pursue the meaningful career. I suppose, like
anyone else that wants to have a meaningful career.

S2 (45:25):
Yeah, of course, many people use Apple products, and VoiceOver
is such a ubiquitous thing amongst people who are blind
or low vision. So, uh, you know, kind of, um,
accessibility is built into their products.

S12 (45:36):
Absolutely. And what I'm finding really in working with them,
it's absolutely a part of their culture. It is one
of the core values, the core business value as well.
It's about access and inclusion. So they're they really, you know,
walking the walk and talking the talk. Absolutely.

S2 (45:51):
Yeah. And I think I know maybe two or 3
or 4 biggest companies in the world. So it's kind
of cool that a company like that has got that ethos.

S12 (45:59):
Absolutely I think so. And, you know, all of their products,
I'm absolutely enabled access to information for many people who
are blind or have low vision, but broader community as well.
So absolutely very grateful. And even for myself, I have
low vision. So yeah, Apple products are a game changer
for sure.

S2 (46:17):
It's a great point you make because of course we
talk about voiceover, but there's a screen magnification that can
make such a big difference as well.

S12 (46:24):
Yes yes it can. And I think in between screen
magnification and voiceover and you can adjust your contrast and
your settings around, you know, with the color color scheme
you want to have. And yeah, I find them extremely,
extremely accessible.

S2 (46:38):
Well done. Any idea how this came about or how
long Apple and Vish Australia have kind of been working together?

S12 (46:43):
Yeah, it's about 3 or 4 years now. it's just
a couple of employment consultants in Sydney have reached out
to Apple because one of our clients was interested to
get a job there, and that's how the relationship started.
Apple recruitment team is very open minded, very inclusive. And um, yeah,
they just kind of turned this into a bit more

(47:04):
formal relationship. And it has really resulted with some incredible, um,
achievements for our clients.

S2 (47:10):
Well, be a pretty cool thing when you meet someone
and they say, what do you do? And you say,
I work for Apple. I mean, that'd kind of make
you feel a little bit taller.

S12 (47:19):
Totally. But I must tell you that they're one of
the most grounded people I've met. So, yeah, very simple,
grounded people.

S2 (47:27):
And I guess in a sense, I'm sure that the
process that they go through make sure they get the
best person for the job. But by the same token,
if that person does their job well, then I think, well,
you did a good job, then we can get someone
else as well. So it's kind of a multiplier effect 100%.

S12 (47:45):
So and that's exactly what we do in employment services
at Vision Australia. So our employment consultants, they work very
closely with the employer but also with the job seeker
or candidate. You know we help people prepare for the interview.
We make sure that your resume is really up to
date and your, um, cover letter kind of response to
what the key selection criteria is. But on the other hand,

(48:07):
you know, with Apple, we know exactly, you know, from
working with them so closely, we know what kind of
talent they're looking out for. So we kind of do
a bit of a match making magic there. And it resulted. Yeah,
it has resulted with, I think around 15 people who
applied for admission working in Apple and or have been
employed in Apple for the last 3 or 4 years.

S2 (48:29):
Yeah, I guess companies can't be expected to know everything,
but there is assistance out there. I mean, obviously, you know,
it's a pretty tough business world, but if, uh, things
like government support can make a bit of a difference.
Workplace modifications, that sort of thing that can play a role. Well, actually,
we can pardon the sort of expression, but we can
kind of take a chance on this and sort of

(48:50):
roll the dice and see how it goes.

S12 (48:52):
No, absolutely. I think I mean, um, specifically with Apple,
the government support was not really a game changer. They're,
they're sort of ethos is around the access and inclusion.
They're very sort of like we're doing this regardless of
whether support is there or not, that we work with
many businesses around the country. And, you know, everyone comes
from different sort of levels of knowledge and confidence around

(49:14):
employing someone who has low vision or blindness. And, you know,
Vision Australia has been providing employment services, you know, for
more than 25 years, close to 30 years, actually. And we. Exactly. Um,
so it's a no judgement sort of conversation. We exactly
know what you know, what sort of fears or misunderstanding

(49:35):
can be out there around, um, you know, with employers
around employing someone who's blind or has a vision, and
we've been successfully employing, um, our, um, job seekers, you know,
for years. And it's possible. I think it's just having
the seat at the table, talking through things. Um, non-judgmentally
asking the right questions, and then we connect them, you know,

(49:56):
with the right talent and the government support where that
is necessary.

S13 (50:00):
Well, I guess, yeah. As I say.

S2 (50:01):
You can't kind of blame corporates for not knowing what
they don't know. I guess if they've got that open
minded and you've got that foot in the door, then
you know, things can sort of roll on from there.

S12 (50:10):
Absolutely. Yeah. And that was really leading by example there.
So um, and this sort of desire to be inclusive
employment place, um, it really comes from the very top.
And I think that's what we always find a lot
of success when the executive team or the leadership team
in the organisation is on board, everything else really falls

(50:31):
into place. So yeah, we, we, um, had a lots
of great examples where that has worked And unfortunately some
examples where, you know, we tried very hard and it
didn't work out well. So yeah.

S2 (50:44):
Well, I guess, you know, there's lots of lots, but
I'm sure there's a number of people who go for
a job, get it, and it doesn't turn out. And
sometimes it's just for not for the want of trying.
Sometimes as you talked about matchmaking, sometimes the matchmaking doesn't
turn out okay, but that's kind of cool. You move on,
you pick yourself up and dust yourself off.

S12 (51:02):
Absolutely. And I think that's pretty standard, really, for anyone
who's looking for work, whether you have blindness, low vision
or disability in general, you know, sometimes it works and
sometimes it doesn't. What we do work a lot with
our job seekers is we really sit down and look at, okay,
what is our current skill set, you know, what are
your superpowers? You know? And by that I mean around,

(51:24):
you know, uh, knowledge and use of access technology, you know, um,
how independent are you in getting around, um, the community,
you know, do we need to support you there? You know,
just some of these basic sort of making sure that
all of these skills and knowledge is in place. So
the talent and the knowledge and the qualification can shine
through and, you know, the screen reader side of things

(51:47):
or getting around catching public transport. We've already done that.
We've practiced that with the client. We we provided the
support and access to specialists. So yeah, that sort of
job readiness is what we really focus on. And that's
why that employment retention for us is pretty high for
our clients that they get jobs. Many of them maintain

(52:09):
the employment beyond 52 weeks, which is one year. Um,
we're on track that after. But, um, yeah, that mark
is absolutely indicate that, you know, 50% of our clients
that gain employment stay beyond one year mark, which is
higher than national average, I believe, for people with disability
that currently sits around 19%.

S2 (52:28):
Wow. That's a very much impressive figure. That's great. I
was thinking I'm not sure if I'm is the right word,
but Apple do make their products very accessible because of
their products being accessible. They can actually help people get jobs.
So it's kind of an interesting irony is the right way.
But more than serendipitous, I would say.

S12 (52:49):
Well, I think it's very intentional on their part, to
be honest. Um, because at the end of the day,
you don't want to have as a business, you don't
want to have a group think where, you know, everyone
is just a clone of each other. And, you know,
we all think the same. Having that diversity. And as
you know, Peter, people with disability in general, particular blindness
and low vision, your whole life is, you know, a

(53:09):
whole bunch of workarounds. You just have to problem solve
all the time and rely on your logic and interpreting
information in all sorts of ways. And, you know, spotting patterns.
And that's all such incredible skills. And it really helps
any sort of workplace thrive.

S2 (53:25):
Uh, how do you go? Are you looking for more
employees to take on people? Are you looking for more
people to say, I'd like to work? How's the bouncing
in your office?

S12 (53:35):
Both. We always want to work with more employers, and
we always want to work with more people who are
blind or have low vision and are really kind of
keen to, um, you know, gain whether that's first time
employment or change their career, you know, or just try
something new. We we love working with anyone. Really. So. Yeah. Um,
reach out please. Um. We just. Yeah. A phone call away.

S2 (53:58):
Okay. What? The fire, the, uh, website or the one
300 number? The best starting point.

S12 (54:02):
Either or whatever works for you. One 300 number will
absolutely put you through to someone that can have a
bit of conversation with you, but it can always, um,
on a Vision Australia website, there's also a form that
you can fill in if you're expressing interest in employment services.

S2 (54:17):
All right. We'll put those details up there. It's good
to talk. We must talk more in the future about
employment opportunities. And you know, I guess it is difficult. But,
you know, by the same token, it's good to celebrate
the wins when they come about.

S12 (54:29):
I so agree, great pizza and thank you so much
for the opportunity.

S2 (54:33):
If you've done a project there from the Employment Service Australia,
and again, boil down to Apple for that corporate award
handed out or awarded last week.

S14 (54:44):
Hi everyone. I'm Alison Davies, I'm a registered music therapist
specializing in using music to support our brain to function
at its best. You're listening to leisure link with Peter
Greco on the Vision Australia radio network.

S2 (55:04):
The Melbourne Disability Expo is coming up on the 21st
and 22nd of November. We're about to give you a
personal invitation via the radio, and one of the keynote
speakers is our guest, Catherine. Catherine, welcome and thanks so
much for your time.

S15 (55:16):
Oh, thank you for having me on the show. I
really appreciate it.

S2 (55:19):
How much are you looking forward to this? Do you
enjoy this sort of public awareness and spreading the word
about the work that you do, and the importance of
access and inclusion?

S15 (55:26):
I think it's so critical for our community to have
these opportunities to not only speak to you, but to
be part of such a wonderful event that Impact Institute
puts on. It raises awareness, it brings the community together,
but it brings people outside of the disability world into
our spaces so we can create more inclusive spaces out

(55:49):
in that general public. So I think it's really important,
the work that we do.

S2 (55:54):
Fantastic. And I guess, you know, I often say to people,
everyone potentially is but a heartbeat away from either being
on the NDIS or needing support in this area, even
though you might be impacted or affected at this very moment,
you just never know what's around the corner.

S15 (56:07):
Absolutely. You never know what's going to happen tomorrow. And
at some point we all age and we become vulnerable. So,
you know, I think the more that we can discuss
and have these opportunities, people become more educated. And the
more education that you have, the more empathy that you
can have for somebody who you may not share the

(56:27):
lived experience right here in this moment, but I bet you,
you know somebody in your network or in your family
that has been affected by some disability, whether it's temporary
or permanent.

S2 (56:40):
And of course, you know, disability is such a broad brush,
isn't it? Can be psychological, emotional, physical people that might
be neurodivergent, etcetera. There's a number of categories under that
major category, if I can put it that way.

S15 (56:51):
Yes, you're absolutely right. The list of disabilities and vulnerabilities
are extensive, and they're not all visible. You hear this
term all the time, but just show kindness. You never
know what somebody is going through. And in a world
of social media and keyboard warriors, if you don't understand it,
be polite, ask a question if you're genuinely curious, and

(57:15):
if you've got something not so kind to say, scroll
on by.

S2 (57:21):
I like that I'll write that down. I think I'll
use that in the future. Catherine. I'll credit you with it. Now,
Another thing is that there's so much information and so
many services out there, and so many different ways to
access things. Something like this Melbourne Disability Expo, 200 plus
organizations or service providers, all in the one place, kind
of does save a bit of shoe leather or indeed
having to sort of search different sites, etc. to have

(57:42):
them all in one stop shop.

S15 (57:43):
The work that Impact Institute does across Australia. It's remarkable.
This year I believe we've been, I think, everywhere except
for Perth, and I know that Perth is on the
agenda for next year. They have been at the forefront
of creating these events where they bring together every walk
of life for the community, from first responders through to

(58:07):
service providers and most importantly, the disability community themselves. Having
a safe space where they can openly be themselves, they
can explore services with dignity and walk away empowered to
hopefully reach out to somebody that can support them in
their day to day life and make them have just

(58:28):
a more fulfilling day to day life.

S2 (58:31):
Part of the focus that the Impact Institute has had
throughout this year has been connecting employers and potential employees,
and we actually spoke to Catherine Kerr a few weeks ago,
been to Darwin. And out of that, within a day
or so an apprenticeship had eventuated, which was such a
powerful thing. And I guess we all do what we
do because we think we're doing a good job and
we love it. But when you hear results like that,

(58:51):
you think, well, this is really worthwhile for sure.

S15 (58:54):
The workability component of the expo this year has been
such a valuable asset. I've had the pleasure of presenting
within that workability space, as well as the disability expo space,
and the questions that come out from people who are
looking to have gainful employment, and then employers sitting there saying, hi,

(59:16):
I'm ready for people to come and work with our
organisation and marrying. Those two have just been so impressive
and really, honestly life changing. Because at the end of
the day, emotional satisfaction really does tie in hand in
hand with financial gain. So if you are credibly working

(59:37):
and earning a living, it changes your mental health and
your wellbeing and they are tied together. So this workability
that Impact Institute has put on this year has changed
so many lives for the better. It's just been awesome.

S2 (59:50):
And the punctuality, the reliability, the loyalty of particularly employees
with disabilities, it's kind of a good investment from a
business point of view.

S15 (59:59):
Couldn't agree with you more. Everybody, every single person has
attributes that they bring to any organization. And just like
finding your perfect partner in life, it's the same thing
with finding the right employer for you and in the
disability space. Sometimes we need to identify the red flags
or the green flags before we take on a role.

(01:00:22):
And it's really about empowering our community to ensure that
they ask the questions of the future employer to make
sure that it's going to be a right fit. And
when that right fit happens, as you know, it's magical.
It can be wonderful.

S2 (01:00:37):
It may be even better than a good relationship. Well,
maybe equally as good. We won't go there. Of course.
The other another thing is I talked about the reliability
and punctuality and the loyal employees. The other thing is
it kind of adds a bit of perspective to the workplace,
a bit of diversity, a bit of inclusion, those sort
of things that, again, are kind of intangible but tangible
at the same time.

S15 (01:00:56):
In 2025, moving into 2026, I think a lot more
awareness in employment is there. And you've seen major billion
dollar organizations or very big organizations leading for many years
with inclusivity and really wanting to have that triple bottom
line and that social inclusion. And I think the more

(01:01:17):
Organizations that we can get bringing in a diverse workforce,
the better it is for everybody. I think we've learned
from Covid that the old methodology of working doesn't really
make it or cut it anymore. We've got people working
from home, we've got people doing shared job responsibilities. We

(01:01:38):
now have people working in different countries or different states,
and they all contribute in different ways. And so bringing
now the disability community to the forefront just adds a
really wonderful layer into the employment pool.

S2 (01:01:55):
Than just a little bit about your keynote. We're rapidly
running out of time. We could talk for ages, what's
your kind of message? And also happy to chat to
people afterwards and maybe do a bit of Q&A, that
sort of stuff as well.

S15 (01:02:05):
Absolutely. What I do, I make sure that I have
time to speak to every single person that would like
to engage with me at the end of my keynote talks.
It's so humbling to get off the stage and have
a line of people there who are willing to share
their vulnerabilities and trust me with some of their stories and,

(01:02:27):
you know, some of their stories have not necessarily been kind,
and they face a lot of discrimination and they face
a lot. So to have that level of trust when
I get off the stage is impressive. The types of
talks that I do vary, so I do train. I'm
the country's only trainer of police officers and paramedics to
understand the disabled in the field. So I do talks

(01:02:49):
around safer interactions between both communities. I do a workability
presentation on helping the disability community obtain gainful employment. I've
done lots of different talks with the Impact Institute over
the years and I just adore them. They are kind
of like my family at this.

S2 (01:03:08):
Point, working.

S15 (01:03:09):
Together for so long. Please, please, if you haven't come
across to one of our expos, Exposed, they're free to attend.
Melbourne is coming up on the 21st and 22nd of November,
and keep an eye out on the schedule for 2026.
It's already got a really impressive lineup.

S2 (01:03:26):
Alright, we'll put details of the Expo and also Impact
Institute on our show notes as well. You talked about
interaction with first responders, police, etc. of course, people with
disabilities are overrepresented when it comes to justice system as well.
So it's such an important thing that in a sense,
that first point of contact that a police officer may
have with a person with a disability.

S15 (01:03:46):
It's so critical and there's lots of miscommunications, there's lots
of misrepresentation of what physical attributes can look like to
a first responder. And it's been my journey over the
course of the last nearly ten years, going across the
country free of charge and training police officers in person

(01:04:06):
and online to bridge that communication gap and make sure
that the disability community is safe. They have reduced trauma
and they understand what their legal rights as well are
for any interaction. So it's a very powerful dialogue. Being
able to be in my position and work with both
first responders and the disability community.

S2 (01:04:28):
Catherine good luck. You don't need luck. I'm sure you'll
do another great job the 21st and 22nd. The Melbourne
Disability Expo, as you said to attend, is free. We'll
put those details up in our show notes. And also
the venue is very, very accessible, which is important as well. Catherine,
I'd love to chat to you in the future. Thank
you for some time this afternoon.

S15 (01:04:45):
Thank you so much. My pleasure.

S2 (01:04:47):
Catherine. They're a great advocate and also one of the
keynote speakers at this year's Melbourne Disability Expo.

S4 (01:04:56):
On the Australia Network through your favorite podcast service on
1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide. You're listening to leisurely.

S2 (01:05:05):
I'm really pleased to welcome to the program, Doctor John Jorgensen,
who's a bariatric surgeon, and talk about obesity. John, if
I may call you that. Thank you for your time
and appreciate you speaking to us. Pleasure. How big an
issue is obesity, particularly in Australia today?

S16 (01:05:21):
Oh, it's a huge, uh, problem. Uh, obesity is a
global epidemic affecting pretty much every country in the world.
I think at least 1 in 3 adult Australians are
either overweight or obese, and something like, uh, 2 to 4%
are severely overweight with body mass indices over 3035, which

(01:05:45):
places them at significant risk of health related issues. It's
a sort of dual epidemic of obesity and diabetes that
go hand in hand because obesity is tied into metabolic disease,
which drives the underlying metabolic disease or dysfunctions. Really, what's
driving the obesity and the hypertension and the diabetes and

(01:06:08):
the cardiovascular disease of polycystic ovaries, even Alzheimer's disease, sleep apnea.
There's just pretty much all modern disease can be owned
into underlying metabolic dysfunction and obesity. Part of that.

S2 (01:06:25):
As a kind of occurred gradually. Have we kind of
is it kind of snuck up on us, if I
can put it that way.

S16 (01:06:31):
Yes, you could say that. I mean, he hasn't really
been an issue for the community in certainly not a
hundred years ago. I think the big upswing in people
being overweight and obese started in the sort of late 60s,
early 70s, and it's continued ever since. So it's not

(01:06:51):
a huge it's not a long term. I mean, people
did used to be overweight in the past, but it
was the odd person you could probably remember yourself being
at school that, you know, there wasn't all that many
overweight kids. I'm 65, so when I went to school
in the 70s, certainly it was very unusual to have
overweight friends at school, whereas these days 1 in 3

(01:07:14):
children are overweight. And so we've certainly changed a lot
as a species. One of the most telling. If you
see pictures from the old days, like the, uh, you know, 1950s, 60s,
all the men were lean. Now you see pictures of
a crowd of Australians. You'll notice that there's been quite
a big change in the way we look.

S2 (01:07:35):
Good snapshot in more ways than one. John, you're a
little bit concerned about maybe some people, they way they
the way they get labelled if you like or blame
for their obesity. It's not just necessarily bad choices in
food or too much inactivity. There's other things that go
with this.

S16 (01:07:54):
Uh, well, I think that it's fairly unhelpful to blame
an individual in an epidemic. Epidemics are usually a combination
of Their genetic predisposition combined with a big change in
the environment. Usually it's not the individual that's changed the environment.
So the fact that the whole world is suffering from

(01:08:16):
a burden of obesity means that the so-called environment has changed,
because our genetics haven't changed probably for 100,000 years. What's
really changed is the food environment, the exercise environment, our
sleep environment, our stress environment. And then you could also
lots of things that we don't necessarily know so much about,

(01:08:41):
like the industrial pollutants we now have in our environment,
plastic molecules, pesticides, etc.. So this all comes together as
so-called the obesogenic environment. And whether that affects you as
an individual or not depends then a lot on your
genetic predisposition. A bit like if the let's say the

(01:09:02):
ozone hole got bigger over Australia and the sun got
more powerful. Then the people that would be more susceptible
to that change would be those that have genetically fairer skin,
like someone with red hair. So whereas someone with darker
skin might not get a problem from that because they're
still well protected, so that your genetic predisposition to environmental

(01:09:26):
changes are critical. And I think therefore it's a little
bit unfair to vilify people in this context of when
we look at the pathophysiology of obesity across the whole population.

S2 (01:09:40):
Because I guess you can also think about the impact
on a person's mental health, how they feel about themselves. If,
you know, if that's if that that low self-esteem, that
doesn't do anyone any good either.

S16 (01:09:52):
No it doesn't. And I think when we talk about
genetic predispositions to we also understand that this pertains to
our psychology as much as their physiology. Say your ability
to deal with things is also fairly genetically determined. The
amount of resilience you have and and your ability to

(01:10:12):
manage long term goals, etc. probably is much genetic as anything.
But then you're quite right that we have this, because
perhaps one of those diseases that you can see externally,
as opposed to say, if someone has high blood pressure
or has asthma or something like that, nobody sort of thing.

(01:10:33):
That where the beta is, is a little bit about
how we look. Therefore, I think it it does affect
people's self-esteem and confidence quite significantly.

S2 (01:10:44):
I speak to a number of doctors. We talk health
a lot on this program, John, and often the the
GP is kind of referred to consult your GP, see
your GP. I mean there's a lot of pressure on
them but what's the role can they play I guess
in the maybe, if not the prevention, but the better
management of obesity.

S16 (01:11:04):
Well, I think probably the first, most important concept is
that we should treat obesity as a disease. And that's
not me saying that. That's the World Health Organization. And
most medical societies around the world have classified obesity as
a chronic relapsing disease. And being labeled a disease, it

(01:11:26):
needs to be treated on best evidence, just like you
would treat hypertension or asthma, as I mentioned before, based
on evidence based protocols. So the most important thing, I think,
is to understand that obesity is a disease and that
the GPS now have very good protocols in place based

(01:11:47):
on good research and outcome data as to what works
and what doesn't work for people of different weight categories.
So the important thing is that people comfortably can talk
to their GP about their obesity and probably more importantly,
the metabolic dysfunction that's underlying it. And this can be

(01:12:08):
very easily looked at by not only your weight and
your waist hip ratio, but also looking at your metabolic profile,
such as your liver function tests to see if you
have fatty liver. Looking at your lipid profile to see
if you have any lipid issues, blood sugars, a1-c and
perhaps most importantly, your fasting insulin level, which is a

(01:12:31):
very standard easy test to get. This will tell people
whether they're hyperinsulinemic secondary to insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is
probably one of the biggest drivers of metabolic disease. And
you can see these things very clearly, objectively in these
sorts of, uh, easy to get blood tests. And that

(01:12:55):
sort of takes the focus a little bit off our fat.
You are, if you like, as opposed to whether you
have metabolic disease. And that makes it more of a
medical issue and therefore also makes it, I think, um,
you can then have some objectivity about what you're trying
to achieve.

S2 (01:13:14):
What about the role of surgery? You're a bariatric surgeon,
so that's probably come a long way and kind of
improved in terms of both the outcome and recovery, that
sort of thing in in the last few years. What
sort of role can bariatric surgery play in, in a
situation like this?

S16 (01:13:31):
Well, yeah. So bariatric surgery is definitely the biggest tool
we have in the toolbox in managing people who are
really overweight. We tend to recommend interventions based on people's
BMI just as a surrogate of the severity. But as
I mentioned, your underlying metabolic disease is possibly even a

(01:13:53):
more accurate way of looking at it, but generally with
a BMI of 25 to 27. This is what we
call overweight, and people in that group should probably just
be advised about good lifestyle changes. 27 to 30. Even
up to 35 is the space now that, um, is

(01:14:14):
occupied with lifestyle changes. Doesn't matter what you do, you're
always going to have to carry your lifestyle change into
that area. So then you might in the 27 above,
you might consider some of the new weight loss medications.
And the the ones that everyone knows about is of
course the GLP one, the Ozempic and Wegovy and Mounjaro etc..

(01:14:37):
And then once you get to 30 and certainly above 35,
the severity of the obesity is such that surgery would
be an appropriate consideration. So we're trying to match the
severity of the problem with the magnitude of the intervention.
And we have, you know, uh, in terms of surgery,

(01:14:58):
we have 30, 40 years of data on outcomes. And
as you mentioned, the morbidity and the mortality of surgeries
got a lot less, given that we have the whole
surgery and robotic surgery as the main approaches now rather
than big incision surgery. And we have data from the

(01:15:19):
Australian Bariatric Surgery Registry, which are really can be given
very objective data to people when they're considering surgery as
what the risks are and what the outcomes are. But
the sort of paint the picture a little bit. The
best case scenario, the GLP one in highly controlled trials

(01:15:42):
is the weight loss of about 12, maybe up to 15%
total body weight. But with modern surgery, we can definitely
get about 30% to 35% total body weight loss. So
surgery is still by far the most effective intervention that
we have. And we're very familiar with the sort of

(01:16:02):
perioperative care getting people as fit as possible for the
surgery and then do the surgery. And usually the surgery
is done, as I mentioned, with keyhole surgery. So most
people have been in hospital for about 2 or 3
days and could be back to work in about two weeks.
So the intervention is not anywhere near as massive as
it used to be.

S2 (01:16:23):
And then the kind of maintenance of the weight after
the surgery, that's pretty critical as well. Or once you've
had the surgery because of the surgery, it's nature. You
don't eat as much and perhaps the light doesn't come
on as quickly.

S16 (01:16:36):
Yeah. So the all of these operations and and also
the GLP ones work on this concept that we understand
about obesity. And I think we're all personally familiar with this,
and it's what's called the set point abnormality, and that
is that your body will always want to drift back
to the heaviest weight you've ever been. So whatever you

(01:16:58):
do to lose weight, i.e. restrict calories or exercise more,
or take ozempic or have surgery, if any of that,
then you will regain the weight. That's pretty much the
rule rather than the exception. Now surgery works by changing
your gastrointestinal physiology. So yes, it does give you a

(01:17:20):
smaller stomach depending on what type of surgery you have,
but it also increases your incretin hormone response. Which other
GLP one gi x Amylin pyy said lots of GI hormones.
So in effect, because we've changed the speed that food
enters the GI tract, we trick the body into thinking

(01:17:44):
that it's eaten a lot more than it has, and
therefore people get satiety and fullness with a smaller amount
of food. And this is then the tool that allows
them to eat less calories and thereby lose weight. Now,
initially when you have surgery that's fairly intense, and then
over 12 months, most of the weight that people lose,

(01:18:04):
they lose in the first 12 to 18 months, and
then they tend to be stable. Now, long term weight
loss maintenance then, is a combination of good lifestyle choices
in terms of food choices, in terms of exercise, sleep,
stress management and your surgery. But the surgery is permanent.

(01:18:25):
So that's going to be part of the long term
solution if you like, because it's constantly there. Whereas if
you're just on a diet, you can be on the
diet or off the diet, or if you're on meds,
you can be on the meds or off the meds.
So but they do tend to be a little bit
more permanent in that in that sense. But you definitely

(01:18:46):
need to combine surgery with a good lifestyle. And I
say that neither drugs nor surgery make junk food or
a toxic lifestyle healthy. You've got to combine that healthy lifestyle.

S2 (01:19:02):
That's very good. John, we're running out of time rapidly,
but just quickly, if you can. Are you comfortable with
the kind of long term effect of the weight loss drugs?
Because they're fairly new. So I guess in a sense,
I probably should ask you this in 5 or 10
years time.

S16 (01:19:17):
Yeah. So look, the longest study that we have on
surgery and its outcome, the surgery to beat objects, which
tracks people out for 30 years. So we're pretty comfortable
as surgeons talking about the outcomes of surgery. These weight
loss drugs are still inside a five year follow up.
And we would call that a honeymoon period. There are

(01:19:37):
a lot of operations that we've done that have come
and gone within five years or ten year time timeframe.
So I think you're quite right. We don't really know
where we are at ten years. And I would say
that while some GLP one for diabetes, like Exenatide have
been around for a long time, this sort of large
dose of fairly powerful incretin hormones that are coming out

(01:20:00):
now is really a, um, a new phenomenon. And we
don't have long term data. Hopefully it's all going to
be good, but I certainly couldn't vouch for that at
this point in time.

S2 (01:20:11):
So, John, in terms of people wanting to find out more,
I guess, uh, a good relationship with your GP is, uh,
kind of first and foremost.

S16 (01:20:17):
Yeah, I think so. And I think if they are
interested in surgery, they should get on the Australian Metabolic,
Bariatric and Metabolic surgery website, asmbs. And that would and
answer cos I think it is actually Australia New Zealand
metabolic and obesity surgery. So anz m o s you

(01:20:37):
get on their website, they have uh you know, a
lot of, uh, well, uh, written articles on, on all
these aspects we've been talking about, but also on the
different operations and what they can and can't do. But
that would be a good starting point if you're interested
in surgery, but definitely go to the GP and ask
them to look at you from a weight perspective and

(01:21:00):
ask them if you have metabolic syndrome and get the
simple blood test. They can give you answers. Uh, you know, ten,
15 years before you run into trouble from diabetes or
heart attack. So, you know, that sort of like really
looking at preventative strategies before they become a problem, which
I think is really how we should try and practice

(01:21:22):
medicine if we can.

S2 (01:21:23):
John, it's been a fascinating discussion. Thank you so much.
And we'll put those details up on our show notes.
We wish you well.

S16 (01:21:29):
Okay. Thanks for having me.

S2 (01:21:31):
That's Doctor John Jorgensen there who's a bariatric surgeon talking
about obesity. And we'll put those details up on our
show notes. And if you want to find out more,
go there. If you have any difficulties, as always, call
us here at the radio station. Third Sunday of the

(01:21:52):
month tomorrow club. Call it the gathers on. Uh, about 10:30.
Doors open till about 2:30. Great food, good music, live music, dancing,
good company and celebrating 25 years of club call tomorrow.
So to Andrew and Tanya and Rob and all the crew. Congratulations.
A mighty effort 25 years. If you want to find

(01:22:13):
out more details 04088486490408848649. That's for club call at the
gov tomorrow. About 10:30 the doors open. It's about 2:30
in the afternoon. And the great thing about the gov
live music, great food no pokies. So well done to

(01:22:36):
uh Are Richard and the team at the guv. Also,
when you threw that Aeron chair from guard dogs. Saint
has announced his retirement. Probably March April next year, I believe.
A very emotional Aeron when he gave a notice to
both the staff and volunteers during the week. So, moving

(01:22:57):
on to greener pastures, I guess, but hasn't been a
great friend of the show for many, many years. Nine
years I think. Garen has been at Guide Dog, so
we'll see if we can catch up with her in
the next few weeks. But certainly a job well done
by Aeron chair. Moving on from guide dogs. Now, a
couple of quotes before we go. Here's one that, uh,

(01:23:17):
mermaid has sent through. Warren Buffett, that great investor and
also philanthropist, made his last speech to shareholders this week.
So he was talking about the fact that, uh, he
is now going to hand over to, obviously, his, uh,
business interests to his, uh, His two, I see. But
talking about his children, who said that they were now

(01:23:40):
in a position to be respected as far as experience
and wisdom went. But they weren't old. So experience and wisdom,
but not old. So that's a nice quote or nice
reference there from, uh, Newman and Marika has sent a
quote through. We had World Kindness Day during the week and, uh,

(01:24:00):
three rules as far as living your life by goes by.
Marika says three rules. One, be kind to be kind.
Three be kind. So thank you for that. We'll actually
chat about World Kindness Day on the program next week.
Couldn't quite organize our clocks and watches to be synchronized

(01:24:21):
for that, but, uh, we'll be doing that on the
program next week, November 30th with World Kindness Day. But
a message that I often say is relevant all year round.
And we do say be kind in Now tries so big.
Good job done by us. Self recommendation is certainly, uh
alive and well here. A couple of birthdays before. Here's

(01:24:44):
a couple of fine people having birthdays. Adrian Matthew, that
wonderful musicologist, is having a birthday. So happy birthday to you, Adrian.
And also Mark Halliday having a birthday as well. That
physiotherapist from Sydney, so originally from Adelaide, now living in Sydney.
So happy birthday to you Mark. Both great their professions.

(01:25:04):
Pretty lousy cricketers. That's it for the program. Sam Richard,
thanks so much for your help. Pam Greene, thanks so
much for yours, James and Cab, I think I didn't
mention you last week, so thank you for your help
last week. Thank you for your help this week. May
it be ongoing. And apologies for missing you out last week. Now,
if you're listening through 1190 7 a.m. in Adelaide, you

(01:25:25):
ain't going anywhere because coming up is Vicki Cousins to
present Australian Geographic's Be Kind to yourselves. Be thoughtful and
look out for others. All being well, let's look back
at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio
and the Reading Radio Network. This is leisurely.

S17 (01:25:46):
Huh? Woo hoo! Woo hoo!

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