October 21, 2025 • 27 mins
Ready to trade sky-high prices for salty air, pine forests, and a mortgage that finally makes sense? In this episode of the Let’s Move to Maine podcast, Elevate ME Realtor Kirk Duke reveals the under-the-radar towns and neighborhoods where out-of-state buyers are finding real value. From coastal hamlets just beyond the tourist map to inland mill towns reinventing themselves with cafés, coworking, and trail networks, Kirk breaks down where the deals are, why they’re still affordable, and how to move fast when you spot a good one.
You’ll hear smart, straight-talk- he warns of potential of sacrificing some lifestyle treasures, and balancing “wish list” features (water access, garages, acreage) with winter-ready realities (snow removal, heating systems, commute routes). Whether you’re planning a remote-work base, a first home, or a low-maintenance landing pad for weekend escapes, this playbook will help you buy confidently—and like a local.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Let's move to Maine is what we are talking about.
Kirk Duke joins us from Elevateaine.com. That's elevateaine.com. Kirk, how
are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm doing great. It's a beautiful fall day here in Maine. Um,
the leaves are sort of past their prime in many
sections of the state, but, you know, it's always beautiful
when the leaves are changing and
You know, and the weather's
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And Maine is one of those typical New England towns
where if you traverse the state, you you've got everything,
you've got coastline, you've got mill towns, you've got beautiful
woodland areas and everything in between. Talk a little bit
about uh the the various living spaces in the Pine
Tree State. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I
would love to talk about that because I think a
lot of people start their journey in thinking about moving
to Maine.
They have this idyllic picture of a little fishing village,
but they don't truly understand the real rural nature of Maine, and, um,
to your point first, um, yeah, there is, there's a
little bit of everything. We've got the the very long
and interesting coastlines, so you have the ocean, you have seafood.
(01:04):
Um, we've got mountains, we've got skiing in the winter,
we've got lakes, we've got woods, we've got camping, we've
got hunting, we've got snowmobiling, all those things, but in
terms of what I think some people think about when
they're thinking about a potential move to Maine is, again,
they've got that picture of some idyllic little village, but
they don't necessarily couple that with the reality that quite
(01:27):
often that really little village is surrounded.
by a lot of nothing in terms of population. So,
maybe less services, maybe, you know, a hospital not quite
as close by as you would like to have it.
And if you look at Maine, the entire state, there's
only a handful of states that have less population total
than Maine. Maine's at about 1.4 million people at this point,
(01:47):
and that is partially spread out over a pretty big
chunk of land. There is a definite population density in
the southern section of Maine.
And as you go north and east and west from
sort of the Portland area, it thins out pretty quickly.
When you're thinking about a potential move to Maine, a
lot of people start with Portland, uh, and that makes
perfect sense. It is our largest city, but I use
(02:09):
the term city loosely. Um, you know, if you, if
you think about the small cities in the country, cities
like Boston, cities like Baltimore, you know, West Coast, Seattle, Portland, Oregon,
those cities are all, I don't know, 500, 600, 700,
maybe 800,000 people.
And generally speaking, the world thinks of those as small cities. Portland, Maine,
is about 1/10 that size, coming in just under 70,000 people. So,
(02:32):
our largest city is really just a big town, and
as you start to move through the rest of the
state and the other population centers, Lewiston-Auburn is just a
little smaller than Portland, and then you get up to Bangor,
and it's about half that size at about 35,000 people.
So my point with all of this is just making sure, yes,
we do have modern stuff, we've got great restaurants, we've
We got, we've got paved roads. Gosh darn it. And
(02:57):
we've got the internet, and we've got technology, we've got
technology companies, and we've got lots of great stuff, but
a lot of the state is very rural. So when
you're picturing where you want to land in Maine and
you're basing that purely on price, remember to sort of
cross-check where you're looking with the things that are important
to you. If being out in the middle of nowhere,
(03:18):
you know, far away from population centers is what you're
After, you will find tons of that. But if healthcare
is important, if box stores are important, just be, make
sure you do your research before you commit to an area.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
The state of Maine, no pun intended, has an awful
lot of real estate that's just that, it's it's a
lot of land, you can find yourself a very, very
long way from the nearest Walmart.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
You sure can.
You sure can. That said, we do have some Walmarts though,
so if that is important to you, you can still
find the right spot. And
Speaker 1 (03:48):
let's be fair to to
Portland, it's got coastline, uh, it has restaurants galore, it
has a very vibrant nightlife, it's got a very vibrant
media scene, uh, both the television, radio, and and online
within the city. It is, as you said, it's it's
a big town, but it is a great town.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
It is indeed, and it does have a little bit
of everything else in Maine, in fact, if I go
back to my previous career good 20 plus years ago,
I was working for an ad agency in Portland and
We developed the tourism line for Portland, which was everything Maine,
because there is a little slice of everything that you
get in the rest of Maine. You've got the ocean,
(04:28):
you've got mountains. Now, granted, you don't have big mountains,
but you've got small mountains nearby. Um, you have lakes
nearby and you have wilderness and all of that kind
of good stuff. As you mentioned, then in the city itself,
great restaurant scene, theater, concerts, breweries, there's a lot going on,
but
Not everybody's looking for a little city to move to
(04:49):
when they move to Maine, of course, a lot of
people are looking to get away from population. It's kind
of why some people are coming here. It's kind of
why I came here about 25 years ago. But to
your point, yeah, Portland is a great city. I live
right outside of Portland. I love it, but I also
have what many Mainers have, which is what we call
a camp, and a camp can be anything from a
(05:11):
big mansion on a lake, which is not really a
Camp all the way down to, you know, almost a lean-to.
It's just anything you have to get yourself into the
woods on a lake or a river or just in
the woods. Many, many meaners live near a population center,
but all of those population centers are within striking distance
to true wilderness, where if you have a little camp,
(05:33):
you can go spend parts of the summer, uh, or
the winter if you're, you know, a snowmobiler and that
sort of thing. So, I love Portland, but Portland's not
for everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And you are correct in
that the state of Maine does play a little fast
and loose with the term camp, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yes, we sure do. It just whatever you have is
a camp.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And to your point about the rural nature of Maine,
I think a lot of people would be surprised that
Augusta is probably one of the smallest capital cities of
any state in the nation. Would you agree with that? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (06:04):
absolutely. I'm, I'm pretty sure that, you know, of the,
I mentioned Portland, I mentioned Lewiston-Auburn, which are technically two
separate cities, but
They sit on either side of a river and so
the community is really one community, which is the 2nd largest,
if you put the two together, the 2nd largest city, Bangor,
I'm pretty sure is 3rd, so Augusta isn't even the
3rd largest city in the state.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Let's look at both ends of the spectrum, starting with
on the young side, somebody just starting out, maybe a
first home purchase. Where would you advise them to look
in the great state of Maine?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
That's a tough question because I would actually flip that around.
And wanna know what is important to them, why are
they moving to Maine? A lot of people will, when
they start this journey of, I want to move to Maine,
they don't necessarily understand that Maine is very, very different
in the different regions. There's definitely a through line kind
(06:59):
of where you can go anywhere in Maine and it
still feels like Maine, but the coast is very different
from the mountains. Southern Maine is very different than northern
Maine or eastern Maine.
So my first question to that person would be, why
are you moving here? Do you have a remote job
where you can live anywhere? If that's the case, then
that opens the door to living anywhere, in which case
(07:20):
we would probably look to talk to you about places
way up north or even somewhat up north like Holton,
which is one of the most accessible from an affordability
point of view, towns in Maine, but that's, you know,
that's pretty far up there. So, if you, if, uh
if you need to be near a
Job center, then you need to be closer to a
place like Bangor or Lewiston-Auburn or Portland. Portland has been
(07:45):
rising in the ranks of, you know, all those top 5,
top 10 lists of best places for jobs and income
and best growing city, you know, whatever. Google Portland, Maine,
and you'll find it on many lists like that. There
are great jobs there. There are high paying jobs there.
There are big, you know, national and international corporations in
(08:06):
and around.
Portland like IDEX and Coveris in the veterinary sciences space.
There's Wex, which is a corporate payments giant that is global.
There's Unum, which is an insurance company that's no longer
headquartered in Portland, but they still have a pretty big
footprint there. There's LL Bean, which is a little outside
of Portland in in Freeport. That said, if you don't
need to be in and around Portland itself, but you
(08:29):
do need a population center, you know, a large town
or city, then look to Lewiston.
Auburn, look to Bangor, look even farther if, again, if,
if you are flexible in what you wanna do, what
you need to do, or if you have a remote job,
then you could start looking at places like Holton. Skowhegan
is another one that's sort of a big town, kind of,
(08:51):
sort of between Augusta, Waterville and Bangor. It's a little west,
so it's not really in between those two, but it
gives you the ability to commute to Bangor or to
Waterville or even to Augusta.
Uh, and it's a neat little town itself, and it
has a Walmart, so if stores are important to you,
Skhegan might be something to look at.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I don't think I've ever lived more than 30 or
40 miles away from a coastline, so I, I'm assuming
I'm like Aquaman, if I, if I get more than
40 miles away from from the ocean, I'll probably die,
and I know for a fact that if my wife
got more than 30 or 40 miles away from the
nearest mall, she would probably die. So with with that
is criteria, what are some suggest?
(09:32):
you might make.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So thinking about the Maine coast in, in general, first,
let me kind of break it up into three sections
for you. So, we kind of think of Portland and South,
really Brunswick and south as Southern Maine coast, and then
from about Brunswick across to Belfast, and people draw these
lines slightly different places, but I, I kind of consider
(09:54):
uh Brunswick to Belfast being what we call the midcoast,
and then past Belfast, when you get past Penobscot Bay.
And head farther east, that's what we consider down east.
And a quick note about that, uh, and this is
something that a lot of people who haven't really looked
at the map closely don't really realize, is the main
coast runs mostly east and west. It's absolutely running north
(10:16):
and south a bit as well, but it's mostly running
east and west. So when you hear us say down east,
to get there, you are indeed traveling east. So you're
not really going that far north, and when you get
to the very end of that far-flung coastline of down east.
And you get to the towns of Lubeck and Eastport,
aptly named Eastport, and then from there you can look
(10:38):
across the water and see Canada. There is still probably
2/3 of Maine north of you that is surrounded by Canada.
So the vast majority of the land mass of Maine
is actually not on the water. It's actually tucked up,
wrapped on three sides by Canada. So, keep that in
mind when we're talking about the Maine coast, you're not
necessarily going that far north into Maine.
(11:00):
Now, back to those three sections of coastline, Southern Maine
coast is by far the most expensive. Again, you've got
Portland in there, the area between Portland and Brunswick is
full of, you know, it's essentially the Portland suburbs. You know,
that said, compared to a larger city, those suburbs are
still fairly rural feeling. You know, I live right outside
(11:22):
of Portland and I am surrounded by woods, so
You really can get sort of that best of both
worlds in Portland, but that comes with a price tag.
It is not cheap. I was fortunate enough to buy
here long before prices went crazy, so I, I wouldn't
be able to afford my house now, I guess is
what I'm saying. So keep that in mind when thinking
(11:42):
about the southern Maine coast, you know, going south of
Portland back towards New Hampshire, you know, going to towns
like Wells and Kenny.
port and um even Soco Bitterford is is on the rise,
although in that strip, Soco and Bitterford is probably where
you're gonna get your best bang for the buck. They're
old mill towns, they're experiencing a sort of a revitalization
(12:03):
as many mill towns do across the country, breweries, restaurants, um,
folks priced out of Portland, but still within striking distance
to commute.
So, southern Maine, check out Soco Beterford. Uh, as you
go into the midcoast, there's, that's another pricey chunk of
real estate as well. That's where the, the coast is
(12:26):
really probably the most quintessential Maine, what you picture, um,
with the little fishing villages, you know, with the rivers
and peninsulas that kind of come down and
You know, when we get into the Maine coast, we
use the term river pretty loosely. If it was a river,
you know, 50 miles north of there, but it's really
essentially ocean now, if it's wrapped on both sides by
(12:48):
a peninsula, we still call it a river, even though
it's probably saltwater. Um, but it's kind of that part
of the coastline that goes in and out and in
and out and in and out. Um, so there's tons
of coastline, which means there's much more waterfront property than
there would be if that coastline were a straight line.
Running just, you know, due east. Um, but within those,
(13:09):
within that coastline, it can still get very pricey, and
there are sort of pricier areas and less pricey areas.
You can still, if you're willing to go fairly east
through there past West Cassett and maybe past Damascata, and
getting into sort of down into friendship or some back
to more population, Thomas.
(13:31):
and Rockland is a place that I would look, if
you're the kind of person who is looking for, you know,
sort of that Camden, Maine experience, but you don't want
to pay those Camden, Maine prices. Now, a gorgeous house
on the water in this area is still gonna be pricey,
but compared to other places in the country, that waterfront
(13:52):
property is somewhat reasonable, and I'll say somewhat, again, that's
all relative, but Rockland, Thomaston,
Uh, and then, if you're willing to go down any
of those peninsulas farther away from the population centers, down
to places like, I, I already mentioned Friendship, Port Clyde,
even some places around Bristol, you can still get kind
(14:13):
of a deal, but again, this whole stretch, you know,
when I say deal, that's a relative thing. So that
takes me to turning the corner.
Downeast, and when you get to Penobscot Bay, there is
a bunch of really interesting towns that are before we
really call it Downeast, there's sort of this middle ground,
(14:34):
so Sedgwick, Brooklyn, Brooksville, Blue Hill, and then go over
the bridge to Deer Isle. That's all very quintessential Maine
looking as well, and
Again, can be pricey, but that's a relative thing. You
go east from there, you go past Ellsworth, which is
also a great town and sort of the last population
(14:54):
center where there's like a real hospital, there's there's some
box stores uh in Ellsworth, but as you get past
Ellsworth and you get past Acadia National Park, then you
head into True Downeast, and this is really where the
deals are for people who are looking for, you know,
that oceanfront.
Rock bound coast, coastline, you know, the, the fishing villages,
(15:18):
and a very sparse population, no box stores, no McDonald's,
you know, none of that. This is all uh very rural,
local businesses, mom and pop restaurants, that sort of stuff.
Towns like Millbridge, towns like Columbia Falls and Jonesport, and Jonesboro,
and even out to Machias, and then eventually, like I
(15:39):
said before, you eventually will find yourself
At the easternmost part of the United States, which is
sort of a a claims battle between Eastport and Lubeck.
Lubeck is slightly more east, but technically not a city,
so Lubeck gets to be the easternmost municipality, and Eastport
gets to be the easternmost city in the United States.
(16:00):
But both of those places are very affordable. But again,
back to my very original point when we started talking,
all of these places I just described in Down East Maine.
Extremely rural. You're driving 1 hour plus to get to
a hospital, you're driving 1 hour plus to get to
a Walmart. You're driving 1 hour plus 2 hours to
(16:21):
get to an airport. So, if that's what you're seeking,
this is the place to get the most bang for
your buck. But again, you've got to balance that with
what your needs are, if you need to be near
an airport, if you need, you know, sophisticated
healthcare, you need to sort of rethink that as as
a place you might want to move to. Alright,
Speaker 1 (16:38):
we talked about the coastline, let's talk about the the
other waterside living in the state of Maine, lake life.
Tell us about that. So
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Maine is full of lakes. That's one of the great
things about the state. There are some large lakes, there
are uh some medium lakes, and there are countless small lakes.
So the biggest Southern
Main lake is Sebago Lake, which is sort of a
a summer spot for people who live in the Portland area.
A lot of folks live on the lake year round.
(17:08):
A lot of people have summer places there, camps if
you will, but it can be pretty pricey, as, you know, again,
it's a big recreational lake, it's, you know, easy drive
from Portland, so you can get there, you know, you
can day trip it from anywhere around Portland.
So, property around Sebago Lake is very expensive on Sebago Lake, very,
very expensive, cause similar to, you know, being oceanfront. However,
(17:30):
if you go just a little farther, there are some
towns a little farther north and a little west of
Sebago Lake, Towns like Harrison and Bridgton, and Casco, they're
all on lakes as well, and
You can get much more for your money in those
areas and still be, it depends on your tolerance for
(17:51):
your commute, but you could still consider certainly Casco and Naples,
and maybe even Bridgton as commutable to Portland, you know,
especially if maybe you only have to be in an
office a couple of days a week or something like that,
and you can work from home some days, probably, you know,
an hour and a half from Bridgeton, something like that.
But, again, compared to Sebago Lake, a lot more bang
(18:13):
for your buck. But if, again, if you don't need
to be in the southern Maine area, with all property
types in Portland, as you get farther away, I'm sorry,
all property types in Maine, as you get farther away
from Portland, the more you'll get for your money. And
as you head up way up, uh sort of north
uh into Maine, the uh Moosehead Lake region.
(18:34):
I, I, I believe it's technically larger than Sebago Lake. It's,
it's hard to visualize because Sebago Lake is one big
sort of, not quite circular, but mostly an oval where
it makes you, you know, you can visually see how
big it is. Moosehead Lake has a lot more nooks
and crannies, so I think it's actually bigger in total volume,
but it is way up there. And then when I
(18:56):
say way up there, it's kind of like what I
was saying with the easternmost.
Part. It's way up there, but there's still a lot
of Maine north of it still. Um, so looking at, uh, Greenville,
which is the largest town on Moosehead Lake, uh, which
is the very southern southern tip of Moosehead Lake, and
then up the western coast up to Rockwood, and then
west from there to Jackman, you know, now you're out there, you're,
(19:18):
you're in the sticks. In fact, my family has a
camp and we're near Jackman. Uh, we got a lot
of bang for our buck.
You know, I've mentioned already, I live right outside of Portland.
It takes us about 3 hours to get there, but
boy are we in the middle of nowhere when we
are there. It is glorious. And, you know, when you're
in Jackman, you're only a short drive from there to
the Canadian border, if you wanted to, you know, maybe
(19:41):
take a trip to Quebec City or something like that,
you're you're within easy reach of that once you get
up in that
area.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Let's talk a little bit about Maine as
One of the New England states that since COVID has
seen an influx of population from people that now can
work remotely and for the love of God, they've got
to get out of Boston, they've got to get out
of Providence, they, they've got to get to some place
that that that they can do some work, but they,
they just can't take the big city life anymore. So
(20:10):
if the criteria were simply I need internet and price points.
What would be a good low price point place and
a uh good high price point place if money were
no object?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
OK, uh, well, we'll start with that one cause that's easy.
I think most of those people who are coming from
larger cities where they just can't take it anymore, but
they've got, you know, they've got the nice remote working
job which often, not always, but often comes with a
a sizable paycheck.
They're probably gonna wanna be in Portland, or very near Portland,
(20:42):
because even though Portland, like, is the largest city in Maine,
compared to what they're probably coming from,
It's small, it's a big town. It's not really a city,
you know, like we said, compared to a Boston or
it's definitely compared to a New York City or a Chicago. Now, again, price,
no object there, right? Cause you're gonna need price to
be no object to get something in Portland. That said,
(21:03):
I work with a lot of first time buyers around Portland.
It is possible to buy a house in the Portland area,
depending on how wide you're willing to call the Portland area.
You know, $300,000 400,000 dollars, which is out of reach
for many people, there's no doubt, but it's not like
you need a $900,000 budget to buy a house in Portland.
(21:25):
There are lots of houses that are $900,000 or 15
or 2.5, or whatever, but there are modest residential communities
around Portland where if your budget allows you into the
300 to 400 range, don't
Give up on it entirely. It it'll take some work,
it'll take some luck, but it is doable. Now, flipping
that around to, doesn't matter where you live, I'll say,
(21:49):
doesn't matter where you live, but you still want some
city amenities, 100% I would send you to Bangor. Bangor
is a great little town, you know, 5, 10 miles
north of it is the University of Maine's primary campus.
Bangor itself has restaurants, has a cute little downtown.
has good concerts. There's a great outdoor concert theater there
(22:10):
that's now been running for about, oh jeez, maybe 20
years or so. Big acts come there. It has an
airport where you can get to a lot of places,
at least in 2 flights. But Portland's in Portland, you
can get to more places than you can from Bangor,
but most of those places you're still gonna need two flights. So, uh,
I would definitely say if you want some of those
city amenities, Bangor would be great.
(22:32):
If you are more interested in being close to the
coast and you don't need those city amenities, but money
is part of the, you know, big part of your
equation here, then I'll take you back down east where
we were just talking about places like Millbridge, Columbia Falls, Jonesport, Machias,
and even uh Lubeck and Eastport, you know, the Lubeck
(22:53):
and Eastport are very, very much have that quintessential main look.
They're just
A long way from everywhere.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
At some point in the past 15 or 20 years, I,
I think developers figured out that all these old mill
buildings were so overbuilt and are so strong that it's
easier to to remodel and repurpose them than it is
to knock them down and and try to build something else.
What's a town that that's making good use of some
(23:21):
of the old mill structures in Maine?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So what one is um is one that I mentioned already, uh,
in the context of good bang for your buck in
southern Maine, Saco and Bterford. A lot of towns in
Maine are built on a river, and so usually, or
at least often, either side of that river is technically
a separate town, but the community is kind of one community,
although their their schools might have rivalries and things like that,
(23:45):
but Soco and Bitterford is one of those scenarios.
which is just south of Portland, maybe half an hour
or so drive, and they sit on either side of
the Saco River as it makes its way to the ocean,
so just inland a little bit.
So, you're very close to beaches, you're very close to Portland,
but to your actual question, they have started redevelo they
(24:07):
were totally a mill town, both, both of them, and they,
they have been rehabilitating those mill buildings for quite some
time now, and doing a nice job of it. Sometimes
it becomes residential, sometimes it becomes businesses, sometimes it becomes
a brewery, but Sacco Bitterford would be a great example
of that.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You
mentioned earlier in the interview that in a form
life, you worked at an ad agency and you created
a slogan for the uh the city of Portland. If
you had to create a slogan for the entire state
of Maine, what do you think it would be?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Oh, wow, that is a tough question. I, I, I
don't really think of those terms much anymore. I don't
know how creative I can get on the spot here. Um, so,
so rather than try to make it a, a five-word slogan,
I will just say that I will go to the
statewide slogan that was the statewide slogan that made me
move here in the first place. I, like many people, uh,
(24:58):
I came here on a vacation 25 years ago, and
at the time, the state tourism slogan was, Maine, the
way life should be. And I bought my little t-shirt,
I went home, and, you know, after about a month,
it stopped being funny and and it started
being serious, and my wife and I were like, you
(25:19):
know what, I would like to live there. That is
the way I would like my life to be. And
we kind of chucked everything and, and moved here 25
years ago. So, I will sort of put some parameters
around that, though. So think back to the conversation you
and I just had along this podcast. Understand that it
is very rural. Understand that
(25:41):
You know, affordability sometimes means being in the middle of nowhere.
Understand that you're not taking a flight out of Portland, Maine,
and landing in London. You know, you know, think, you know,
consider those things as well, and, and, but if that
sort of rural, you know, sensibility makes sense to you.
(26:01):
And we haven't actually talked about weather at all yet, and,
you know, winters are much more mild than they were
even when I moved here 25 years ago, but we
still have real winters, so keep that in mind too.
If winter is not your thing, this is not the
place for you, but if you enjoy the changing seasons,
you enjoy the, the sort of rural, rugged nature of
a place that can be rural, rugged, and quaintly beautiful
(26:25):
at the same time.
Then, you know, maybe it is the way your life
should be.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Elevateaine.com is the website, Elevateaine.com. Kirk Duke, which by the way,
is the greatest cowboy name ever, and why there isn't
a character on Yellowstone named Kirk Duke, I will never know.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Maybe they'll make a movie someday and and they'll they'll
add one.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
And on your business card, Kirk, you have a special
phone number that's called your VIP line with listeners of this.
Podcast count as VIPs? 100%. 207-709-1223 if you want to
get directly in touch with Kirk Duke, cowboy extraordinaire and
real estate agent extraordinaire as well. The VIP line is
(27:05):
207-709-1223 Elevateaine.com for let's move to Maine, I'm Mark Erickson.
Kirk Duke, thank you for spending time with us.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Thanks, Mark. I really appreciated the conversation.
Let's move to Maine is what we are talking about.
Kirk Duke joins us from Elevateaine.com. That's elevateaine.com. Kirk, how
are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
I'm doing great. It's a beautiful fall day here in Maine. Um,
the leaves are sort of past their prime in many
sections of the state, but, you know, it's always beautiful
when the leaves are changing and
You know, and the weather's
beautiful.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
And Maine is one of those typical New England towns
where if you traverse the state, you you've got everything,
you've got coastline, you've got mill towns, you've got beautiful
woodland areas and everything in between. Talk a little bit
about uh the the various living spaces in the Pine
Tree State. Yeah,
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I
would love to talk about that because I think a
lot of people start their journey in thinking about moving
to Maine.
They have this idyllic picture of a little fishing village,
but they don't truly understand the real rural nature of Maine, and, um,
to your point first, um, yeah, there is, there's a
little bit of everything. We've got the the very long
and interesting coastlines, so you have the ocean, you have seafood.
(01:04):
Um, we've got mountains, we've got skiing in the winter,
we've got lakes, we've got woods, we've got camping, we've
got hunting, we've got snowmobiling, all those things, but in
terms of what I think some people think about when
they're thinking about a potential move to Maine is, again,
they've got that picture of some idyllic little village, but
they don't necessarily couple that with the reality that quite
(01:27):
often that really little village is surrounded.
by a lot of nothing in terms of population. So,
maybe less services, maybe, you know, a hospital not quite
as close by as you would like to have it.
And if you look at Maine, the entire state, there's
only a handful of states that have less population total
than Maine. Maine's at about 1.4 million people at this point,
(01:47):
and that is partially spread out over a pretty big
chunk of land. There is a definite population density in
the southern section of Maine.
And as you go north and east and west from
sort of the Portland area, it thins out pretty quickly.
When you're thinking about a potential move to Maine, a
lot of people start with Portland, uh, and that makes
perfect sense. It is our largest city, but I use
(02:09):
the term city loosely. Um, you know, if you, if
you think about the small cities in the country, cities
like Boston, cities like Baltimore, you know, West Coast, Seattle, Portland, Oregon,
those cities are all, I don't know, 500, 600, 700,
maybe 800,000 people.
And generally speaking, the world thinks of those as small cities. Portland, Maine,
is about 1/10 that size, coming in just under 70,000 people. So,
(02:32):
our largest city is really just a big town, and
as you start to move through the rest of the
state and the other population centers, Lewiston-Auburn is just a
little smaller than Portland, and then you get up to Bangor,
and it's about half that size at about 35,000 people.
So my point with all of this is just making sure, yes,
we do have modern stuff, we've got great restaurants, we've
We got, we've got paved roads. Gosh darn it. And
(02:57):
we've got the internet, and we've got technology, we've got
technology companies, and we've got lots of great stuff, but
a lot of the state is very rural. So when
you're picturing where you want to land in Maine and
you're basing that purely on price, remember to sort of
cross-check where you're looking with the things that are important
to you. If being out in the middle of nowhere,
(03:18):
you know, far away from population centers is what you're
After, you will find tons of that. But if healthcare
is important, if box stores are important, just be, make
sure you do your research before you commit to an area.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
The state of Maine, no pun intended, has an awful
lot of real estate that's just that, it's it's a
lot of land, you can find yourself a very, very
long way from the nearest Walmart.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
You sure can.
You sure can. That said, we do have some Walmarts though,
so if that is important to you, you can still
find the right spot. And
Speaker 1 (03:48):
let's be fair to to
Portland, it's got coastline, uh, it has restaurants galore, it
has a very vibrant nightlife, it's got a very vibrant
media scene, uh, both the television, radio, and and online
within the city. It is, as you said, it's it's
a big town, but it is a great town.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
It is indeed, and it does have a little bit
of everything else in Maine, in fact, if I go
back to my previous career good 20 plus years ago,
I was working for an ad agency in Portland and
We developed the tourism line for Portland, which was everything Maine,
because there is a little slice of everything that you
get in the rest of Maine. You've got the ocean,
(04:28):
you've got mountains. Now, granted, you don't have big mountains,
but you've got small mountains nearby. Um, you have lakes
nearby and you have wilderness and all of that kind
of good stuff. As you mentioned, then in the city itself,
great restaurant scene, theater, concerts, breweries, there's a lot going on,
but
Not everybody's looking for a little city to move to
(04:49):
when they move to Maine, of course, a lot of
people are looking to get away from population. It's kind
of why some people are coming here. It's kind of
why I came here about 25 years ago. But to
your point, yeah, Portland is a great city. I live
right outside of Portland. I love it, but I also
have what many Mainers have, which is what we call
a camp, and a camp can be anything from a
(05:11):
big mansion on a lake, which is not really a
Camp all the way down to, you know, almost a lean-to.
It's just anything you have to get yourself into the
woods on a lake or a river or just in
the woods. Many, many meaners live near a population center,
but all of those population centers are within striking distance
to true wilderness, where if you have a little camp,
(05:33):
you can go spend parts of the summer, uh, or
the winter if you're, you know, a snowmobiler and that
sort of thing. So, I love Portland, but Portland's not
for everybody.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
And you are correct in
that the state of Maine does play a little fast
and loose with the term camp, doesn't it?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yes, we sure do. It just whatever you have is
a camp.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
And to your point about the rural nature of Maine,
I think a lot of people would be surprised that
Augusta is probably one of the smallest capital cities of
any state in the nation. Would you agree with that? Yeah,
Speaker 2 (06:04):
absolutely. I'm, I'm pretty sure that, you know, of the,
I mentioned Portland, I mentioned Lewiston-Auburn, which are technically two
separate cities, but
They sit on either side of a river and so
the community is really one community, which is the 2nd largest,
if you put the two together, the 2nd largest city, Bangor,
I'm pretty sure is 3rd, so Augusta isn't even the
3rd largest city in the state.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Let's look at both ends of the spectrum, starting with
on the young side, somebody just starting out, maybe a
first home purchase. Where would you advise them to look
in the great state of Maine?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
That's a tough question because I would actually flip that around.
And wanna know what is important to them, why are
they moving to Maine? A lot of people will, when
they start this journey of, I want to move to Maine,
they don't necessarily understand that Maine is very, very different
in the different regions. There's definitely a through line kind
(06:59):
of where you can go anywhere in Maine and it
still feels like Maine, but the coast is very different
from the mountains. Southern Maine is very different than northern
Maine or eastern Maine.
So my first question to that person would be, why
are you moving here? Do you have a remote job
where you can live anywhere? If that's the case, then
that opens the door to living anywhere, in which case
(07:20):
we would probably look to talk to you about places
way up north or even somewhat up north like Holton,
which is one of the most accessible from an affordability
point of view, towns in Maine, but that's, you know,
that's pretty far up there. So, if you, if, uh
if you need to be near a
Job center, then you need to be closer to a
place like Bangor or Lewiston-Auburn or Portland. Portland has been
(07:45):
rising in the ranks of, you know, all those top 5,
top 10 lists of best places for jobs and income
and best growing city, you know, whatever. Google Portland, Maine,
and you'll find it on many lists like that. There
are great jobs there. There are high paying jobs there.
There are big, you know, national and international corporations in
(08:06):
and around.
Portland like IDEX and Coveris in the veterinary sciences space.
There's Wex, which is a corporate payments giant that is global.
There's Unum, which is an insurance company that's no longer
headquartered in Portland, but they still have a pretty big
footprint there. There's LL Bean, which is a little outside
of Portland in in Freeport. That said, if you don't
need to be in and around Portland itself, but you
(08:29):
do need a population center, you know, a large town
or city, then look to Lewiston.
Auburn, look to Bangor, look even farther if, again, if,
if you are flexible in what you wanna do, what
you need to do, or if you have a remote job,
then you could start looking at places like Holton. Skowhegan
is another one that's sort of a big town, kind of,
(08:51):
sort of between Augusta, Waterville and Bangor. It's a little west,
so it's not really in between those two, but it
gives you the ability to commute to Bangor or to
Waterville or even to Augusta.
Uh, and it's a neat little town itself, and it
has a Walmart, so if stores are important to you,
Skhegan might be something to look at.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
I don't think I've ever lived more than 30 or
40 miles away from a coastline, so I, I'm assuming
I'm like Aquaman, if I, if I get more than
40 miles away from from the ocean, I'll probably die,
and I know for a fact that if my wife
got more than 30 or 40 miles away from the
nearest mall, she would probably die. So with with that
is criteria, what are some suggest?
(09:32):
you might make.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So thinking about the Maine coast in, in general, first,
let me kind of break it up into three sections
for you. So, we kind of think of Portland and South,
really Brunswick and south as Southern Maine coast, and then
from about Brunswick across to Belfast, and people draw these
lines slightly different places, but I, I kind of consider
(09:54):
uh Brunswick to Belfast being what we call the midcoast,
and then past Belfast, when you get past Penobscot Bay.
And head farther east, that's what we consider down east.
And a quick note about that, uh, and this is
something that a lot of people who haven't really looked
at the map closely don't really realize, is the main
coast runs mostly east and west. It's absolutely running north
(10:16):
and south a bit as well, but it's mostly running
east and west. So when you hear us say down east,
to get there, you are indeed traveling east. So you're
not really going that far north, and when you get
to the very end of that far-flung coastline of down east.
And you get to the towns of Lubeck and Eastport,
aptly named Eastport, and then from there you can look
(10:38):
across the water and see Canada. There is still probably
2/3 of Maine north of you that is surrounded by Canada.
So the vast majority of the land mass of Maine
is actually not on the water. It's actually tucked up,
wrapped on three sides by Canada. So, keep that in
mind when we're talking about the Maine coast, you're not
necessarily going that far north into Maine.
(11:00):
Now, back to those three sections of coastline, Southern Maine
coast is by far the most expensive. Again, you've got
Portland in there, the area between Portland and Brunswick is
full of, you know, it's essentially the Portland suburbs. You know,
that said, compared to a larger city, those suburbs are
still fairly rural feeling. You know, I live right outside
(11:22):
of Portland and I am surrounded by woods, so
You really can get sort of that best of both
worlds in Portland, but that comes with a price tag.
It is not cheap. I was fortunate enough to buy
here long before prices went crazy, so I, I wouldn't
be able to afford my house now, I guess is
what I'm saying. So keep that in mind when thinking
(11:42):
about the southern Maine coast, you know, going south of
Portland back towards New Hampshire, you know, going to towns
like Wells and Kenny.
port and um even Soco Bitterford is is on the rise,
although in that strip, Soco and Bitterford is probably where
you're gonna get your best bang for the buck. They're
old mill towns, they're experiencing a sort of a revitalization
(12:03):
as many mill towns do across the country, breweries, restaurants, um,
folks priced out of Portland, but still within striking distance
to commute.
So, southern Maine, check out Soco Beterford. Uh, as you
go into the midcoast, there's, that's another pricey chunk of
real estate as well. That's where the, the coast is
(12:26):
really probably the most quintessential Maine, what you picture, um,
with the little fishing villages, you know, with the rivers
and peninsulas that kind of come down and
You know, when we get into the Maine coast, we
use the term river pretty loosely. If it was a river,
you know, 50 miles north of there, but it's really
essentially ocean now, if it's wrapped on both sides by
(12:48):
a peninsula, we still call it a river, even though
it's probably saltwater. Um, but it's kind of that part
of the coastline that goes in and out and in
and out and in and out. Um, so there's tons
of coastline, which means there's much more waterfront property than
there would be if that coastline were a straight line.
Running just, you know, due east. Um, but within those,
(13:09):
within that coastline, it can still get very pricey, and
there are sort of pricier areas and less pricey areas.
You can still, if you're willing to go fairly east
through there past West Cassett and maybe past Damascata, and
getting into sort of down into friendship or some back
to more population, Thomas.
(13:31):
and Rockland is a place that I would look, if
you're the kind of person who is looking for, you know,
sort of that Camden, Maine experience, but you don't want
to pay those Camden, Maine prices. Now, a gorgeous house
on the water in this area is still gonna be pricey,
but compared to other places in the country, that waterfront
(13:52):
property is somewhat reasonable, and I'll say somewhat, again, that's
all relative, but Rockland, Thomaston,
Uh, and then, if you're willing to go down any
of those peninsulas farther away from the population centers, down
to places like, I, I already mentioned Friendship, Port Clyde,
even some places around Bristol, you can still get kind
(14:13):
of a deal, but again, this whole stretch, you know,
when I say deal, that's a relative thing. So that
takes me to turning the corner.
Downeast, and when you get to Penobscot Bay, there is
a bunch of really interesting towns that are before we
really call it Downeast, there's sort of this middle ground,
(14:34):
so Sedgwick, Brooklyn, Brooksville, Blue Hill, and then go over
the bridge to Deer Isle. That's all very quintessential Maine
looking as well, and
Again, can be pricey, but that's a relative thing. You
go east from there, you go past Ellsworth, which is
also a great town and sort of the last population
(14:54):
center where there's like a real hospital, there's there's some
box stores uh in Ellsworth, but as you get past
Ellsworth and you get past Acadia National Park, then you
head into True Downeast, and this is really where the
deals are for people who are looking for, you know,
that oceanfront.
Rock bound coast, coastline, you know, the, the fishing villages,
(15:18):
and a very sparse population, no box stores, no McDonald's,
you know, none of that. This is all uh very rural,
local businesses, mom and pop restaurants, that sort of stuff.
Towns like Millbridge, towns like Columbia Falls and Jonesport, and Jonesboro,
and even out to Machias, and then eventually, like I
(15:39):
said before, you eventually will find yourself
At the easternmost part of the United States, which is
sort of a a claims battle between Eastport and Lubeck.
Lubeck is slightly more east, but technically not a city,
so Lubeck gets to be the easternmost municipality, and Eastport
gets to be the easternmost city in the United States.
(16:00):
But both of those places are very affordable. But again,
back to my very original point when we started talking,
all of these places I just described in Down East Maine.
Extremely rural. You're driving 1 hour plus to get to
a hospital, you're driving 1 hour plus to get to
a Walmart. You're driving 1 hour plus 2 hours to
(16:21):
get to an airport. So, if that's what you're seeking,
this is the place to get the most bang for
your buck. But again, you've got to balance that with
what your needs are, if you need to be near
an airport, if you need, you know, sophisticated
healthcare, you need to sort of rethink that as as
a place you might want to move to. Alright,
Speaker 1 (16:38):
we talked about the coastline, let's talk about the the
other waterside living in the state of Maine, lake life.
Tell us about that. So
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Maine is full of lakes. That's one of the great
things about the state. There are some large lakes, there
are uh some medium lakes, and there are countless small lakes.
So the biggest Southern
Main lake is Sebago Lake, which is sort of a
a summer spot for people who live in the Portland area.
A lot of folks live on the lake year round.
(17:08):
A lot of people have summer places there, camps if
you will, but it can be pretty pricey, as, you know, again,
it's a big recreational lake, it's, you know, easy drive
from Portland, so you can get there, you know, you
can day trip it from anywhere around Portland.
So, property around Sebago Lake is very expensive on Sebago Lake, very,
very expensive, cause similar to, you know, being oceanfront. However,
(17:30):
if you go just a little farther, there are some
towns a little farther north and a little west of
Sebago Lake, Towns like Harrison and Bridgton, and Casco, they're
all on lakes as well, and
You can get much more for your money in those
areas and still be, it depends on your tolerance for
(17:51):
your commute, but you could still consider certainly Casco and Naples,
and maybe even Bridgton as commutable to Portland, you know,
especially if maybe you only have to be in an
office a couple of days a week or something like that,
and you can work from home some days, probably, you know,
an hour and a half from Bridgeton, something like that.
But, again, compared to Sebago Lake, a lot more bang
(18:13):
for your buck. But if, again, if you don't need
to be in the southern Maine area, with all property
types in Portland, as you get farther away, I'm sorry,
all property types in Maine, as you get farther away
from Portland, the more you'll get for your money. And
as you head up way up, uh sort of north
uh into Maine, the uh Moosehead Lake region.
(18:34):
I, I, I believe it's technically larger than Sebago Lake. It's,
it's hard to visualize because Sebago Lake is one big
sort of, not quite circular, but mostly an oval where
it makes you, you know, you can visually see how
big it is. Moosehead Lake has a lot more nooks
and crannies, so I think it's actually bigger in total volume,
but it is way up there. And then when I
(18:56):
say way up there, it's kind of like what I
was saying with the easternmost.
Part. It's way up there, but there's still a lot
of Maine north of it still. Um, so looking at, uh, Greenville,
which is the largest town on Moosehead Lake, uh, which
is the very southern southern tip of Moosehead Lake, and
then up the western coast up to Rockwood, and then
west from there to Jackman, you know, now you're out there, you're,
(19:18):
you're in the sticks. In fact, my family has a
camp and we're near Jackman. Uh, we got a lot
of bang for our buck.
You know, I've mentioned already, I live right outside of Portland.
It takes us about 3 hours to get there, but
boy are we in the middle of nowhere when we
are there. It is glorious. And, you know, when you're
in Jackman, you're only a short drive from there to
the Canadian border, if you wanted to, you know, maybe
(19:41):
take a trip to Quebec City or something like that,
you're you're within easy reach of that once you get
up in that
area.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Let's talk a little bit about Maine as
One of the New England states that since COVID has
seen an influx of population from people that now can
work remotely and for the love of God, they've got
to get out of Boston, they've got to get out
of Providence, they, they've got to get to some place
that that that they can do some work, but they,
they just can't take the big city life anymore. So
(20:10):
if the criteria were simply I need internet and price points.
What would be a good low price point place and
a uh good high price point place if money were
no object?
Speaker 2 (20:22):
OK, uh, well, we'll start with that one cause that's easy.
I think most of those people who are coming from
larger cities where they just can't take it anymore, but
they've got, you know, they've got the nice remote working
job which often, not always, but often comes with a
a sizable paycheck.
They're probably gonna wanna be in Portland, or very near Portland,
(20:42):
because even though Portland, like, is the largest city in Maine,
compared to what they're probably coming from,
It's small, it's a big town. It's not really a city,
you know, like we said, compared to a Boston or
it's definitely compared to a New York City or a Chicago. Now, again, price,
no object there, right? Cause you're gonna need price to
be no object to get something in Portland. That said,
(21:03):
I work with a lot of first time buyers around Portland.
It is possible to buy a house in the Portland area,
depending on how wide you're willing to call the Portland area.
You know, $300,000 400,000 dollars, which is out of reach
for many people, there's no doubt, but it's not like
you need a $900,000 budget to buy a house in Portland.
(21:25):
There are lots of houses that are $900,000 or 15
or 2.5, or whatever, but there are modest residential communities
around Portland where if your budget allows you into the
300 to 400 range, don't
Give up on it entirely. It it'll take some work,
it'll take some luck, but it is doable. Now, flipping
that around to, doesn't matter where you live, I'll say,
(21:49):
doesn't matter where you live, but you still want some
city amenities, 100% I would send you to Bangor. Bangor
is a great little town, you know, 5, 10 miles
north of it is the University of Maine's primary campus.
Bangor itself has restaurants, has a cute little downtown.
has good concerts. There's a great outdoor concert theater there
(22:10):
that's now been running for about, oh jeez, maybe 20
years or so. Big acts come there. It has an
airport where you can get to a lot of places,
at least in 2 flights. But Portland's in Portland, you
can get to more places than you can from Bangor,
but most of those places you're still gonna need two flights. So, uh,
I would definitely say if you want some of those
city amenities, Bangor would be great.
(22:32):
If you are more interested in being close to the
coast and you don't need those city amenities, but money
is part of the, you know, big part of your
equation here, then I'll take you back down east where
we were just talking about places like Millbridge, Columbia Falls, Jonesport, Machias,
and even uh Lubeck and Eastport, you know, the Lubeck
(22:53):
and Eastport are very, very much have that quintessential main look.
They're just
A long way from everywhere.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
At some point in the past 15 or 20 years, I,
I think developers figured out that all these old mill
buildings were so overbuilt and are so strong that it's
easier to to remodel and repurpose them than it is
to knock them down and and try to build something else.
What's a town that that's making good use of some
(23:21):
of the old mill structures in Maine?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
So what one is um is one that I mentioned already, uh,
in the context of good bang for your buck in
southern Maine, Saco and Bterford. A lot of towns in
Maine are built on a river, and so usually, or
at least often, either side of that river is technically
a separate town, but the community is kind of one community,
although their their schools might have rivalries and things like that,
(23:45):
but Soco and Bitterford is one of those scenarios.
which is just south of Portland, maybe half an hour
or so drive, and they sit on either side of
the Saco River as it makes its way to the ocean,
so just inland a little bit.
So, you're very close to beaches, you're very close to Portland,
but to your actual question, they have started redevelo they
(24:07):
were totally a mill town, both, both of them, and they,
they have been rehabilitating those mill buildings for quite some
time now, and doing a nice job of it. Sometimes
it becomes residential, sometimes it becomes businesses, sometimes it becomes
a brewery, but Sacco Bitterford would be a great example
of that.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
You
mentioned earlier in the interview that in a form
life, you worked at an ad agency and you created
a slogan for the uh the city of Portland. If
you had to create a slogan for the entire state
of Maine, what do you think it would be?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Oh, wow, that is a tough question. I, I, I
don't really think of those terms much anymore. I don't
know how creative I can get on the spot here. Um, so,
so rather than try to make it a, a five-word slogan,
I will just say that I will go to the
statewide slogan that was the statewide slogan that made me
move here in the first place. I, like many people, uh,
(24:58):
I came here on a vacation 25 years ago, and
at the time, the state tourism slogan was, Maine, the
way life should be. And I bought my little t-shirt,
I went home, and, you know, after about a month,
it stopped being funny and and it started
being serious, and my wife and I were like, you
(25:19):
know what, I would like to live there. That is
the way I would like my life to be. And
we kind of chucked everything and, and moved here 25
years ago. So, I will sort of put some parameters
around that, though. So think back to the conversation you
and I just had along this podcast. Understand that it
is very rural. Understand that
(25:41):
You know, affordability sometimes means being in the middle of nowhere.
Understand that you're not taking a flight out of Portland, Maine,
and landing in London. You know, you know, think, you know,
consider those things as well, and, and, but if that
sort of rural, you know, sensibility makes sense to you.
(26:01):
And we haven't actually talked about weather at all yet, and,
you know, winters are much more mild than they were
even when I moved here 25 years ago, but we
still have real winters, so keep that in mind too.
If winter is not your thing, this is not the
place for you, but if you enjoy the changing seasons,
you enjoy the, the sort of rural, rugged nature of
a place that can be rural, rugged, and quaintly beautiful
(26:25):
at the same time.
Then, you know, maybe it is the way your life
should be.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Elevateaine.com is the website, Elevateaine.com. Kirk Duke, which by the way,
is the greatest cowboy name ever, and why there isn't
a character on Yellowstone named Kirk Duke, I will never know.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Maybe they'll make a movie someday and and they'll they'll
add one.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
And on your business card, Kirk, you have a special
phone number that's called your VIP line with listeners of this.
Podcast count as VIPs? 100%. 207-709-1223 if you want to
get directly in touch with Kirk Duke, cowboy extraordinaire and
real estate agent extraordinaire as well. The VIP line is
(27:05):
207-709-1223 Elevateaine.com for let's move to Maine, I'm Mark Erickson.
Kirk Duke, thank you for spending time with us.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Thanks, Mark. I really appreciated the conversation.
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