April 29, 2025 • 29 mins
With most people now preferring to focus on celebrating life rather than mourning at funerals, we explore the new ways people are choosing to commemorate loved ones, and hear first hand experience of what it's like to grieve in the public eye, with acclaimed author Blanche d’Alpuget, widow of former Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke, and experienced funeral and life celebrant Evelyn Calaunan.
About the episode – brought to you by Australian Seniors.
Join James Valentine for the sixth season of Life’s Booming: Dying to Know, our most unflinching yet. We’ll have the conversations that are hardest to have, ask the questions that are easy to ignore, and hear stories that will make you think differently about the one thing we’re all guaranteed to experience: Death.
Featuring interviews with famous faces as well as experts in the space, we uncover what they know about what we can expect. There are hard truths, surprising discoveries, tears and even laughs. Nothing about death is off the table.
Blanche d’Alpuget is an acclaimed Australian author and the widow of former Prime Minister Bob Hawke. In this episode, Blanche reflects on public and private rituals of mourning, what it means to say goodbye well, and how grief reshapes us. Her latest novel, The Bunny Club (her first murder mystery), is out now.
Evelyn Calaunan is a celebrant who has conducted more than 600 ceremonies, including living funerals that are heartfelt gatherings held before death to honour a life while the person is still present. Drawing on her background in palliative care and community work, Evelyn helps individuals and families create ceremonies that are deeply personal.
If you have any thoughts or questions and want to share your story to Life’s Booming, send us a voice note – lifesbooming@seniors.com.au
Watch Life’s Booming on YouTube
Listen to Life's Booming on Apple Podcasts
Listen to Life's Booming on Spotify
For more information visit seniors.com.au/podcast
Produced by Medium Rare Content Agency, in conjunction with Ampel
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Disclaimer: Please be advised that this episode contains discussions about death, which may be triggering or upsetting for some listeners. Listener discretion is advised.
If you are struggling with the loss of a loved one, please know that you are not alone and there are resources available. For additional support please contact Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636.
TRANSCRIPT:
S06EP04 Going out with style
James: Hi, I'm James Valentine. Welcome to Life's Booming. This season is Dying to Know. We're having the conversations that are often the hardest to have with people who've experienced life's one great certainty, death.
It touches everyone, but how we honor our loved ones in death is changing, with most of us now preferring to focus on celebrating life rather than mourning at funerals.
So in this episode, we expl
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, I'm James Valentine. Welcome to Life's Booming. This season
is dying to know. We're having the conversations that are
often the hardest to have with people who've experienced life's
one great certainty.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Death.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
It touches everyone, But how we honor our loved ones
in death is changing, with most of us now preferring
to focus on celebrating life than rather than mourning at funerals.
So in this episode, we explore some of the new
ways people are choosing to commemorate life, as well as
hearing first hand experience of what it's like to grieve
in the public eye. Generously sharing their professional and personal
(00:39):
stories are our guests. Evelyn color Unan is an experienced
celebrant who specializes in living funerals and blast Apooge is
an acclaimed author and widow a former Australian Prime Minister
Bob Hawk Ceveland Blanche Bob with Life's Booming.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Oh thank you, James. Evelyn.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You describe yourself as end of life celebrant. What exactly
does that mean?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
End of so I've done I've done ceremonies as well.
I used to be a wedding celebrant and I've married
a few couples where one of the partners was diagnosed
with a terminal illness, so I would do the ceremony,
and that turned out to be sort of a life celebration,
(01:20):
and they just wanted to marry before one of them died.
So and then I've done a ceremony where the person
was actually dying and we did the end of life
sort of life celebration for him, and he passed away
I think ten days after the ceremony. That's why I
think it's it's best just to celebrate life now, like
(01:41):
have those milestone birthdays or whatever birthday number you're turning
and have a great party. Now, why wait till you
have a diagnosis or a terminal illness that's looming. So
it's important to have those those celebrations now. However, in
saying that, sometimes people are diagnosed and like, oh god,
I didn't have that, so I want to have something now.
(02:03):
I did do a life celebration for my girlfriend who
was diagnosed with cancer, and I did a little bit
of a ceremony and a ritual and I shared a
poem and I was getting a bit too sad for
everybody there because we were really, it was like a
seventies party. We're all dressed up and enjoying each other's company.
And then after a while we could tell people really
getting upset because of her diagnosis. And then she came
(02:25):
on the microphone she said, Okay, okay, that's enough, Evelyn,
Let's go on to karaoke. You know. So, yeah, it
turned out to be a lovely celebration, and she wanted
to invite people there from all parts of her life
and just be able to have a good party with
them while she was still feeling well. Yeah, yeah, And
(02:46):
I've done about six hundred end of life ceremonies.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It just sounds like six hundred sounds like a law.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, but in the context of seventeen years, that's really not.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I think the thing is struck. Maybe about that number
was it. Did it get routine?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Not really.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I mean a lot of the script is, or the
script that I have. I mean, there's only so many
ways you can say, I'd like to welcome everyone here today.
So I'll write a ceremony and I might say, oh,
you know, Joe blow leaves behind his loving sister, and
then the parents will come back. I'll say, please take
loving out they couldn't stand each other. So you know,
(03:23):
there's a lot of adjectives that are changed because I
kind of make my ceremonies quite flowery and people like
to change that and make it more real.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So yeah, but you had the experience of, in a way,
one of the biggest funeral, the biggest moments of public
grief in Australian life, the death of Bob Hawk and
the funeral and memorial service of Bob Hawk. The how
much did you and Bob plan those events together?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Not at all? No, No, that was all left up
to me, right, Oh, so you planned those bits.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So yeah, because my understanding is Bob knew he was dying, right,
you knew it was. It's a year before that kind
of think. You knew it was, would well be coming.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
You don't know exactly when when he started dying. It
just felt like an axe. It was very sudden, out
of the blue. We were having dinner and he was
in a bad way. He was in a lot of
pain from peripheral neuropathy, so he was on morphine tablets
(04:33):
and the defends and all patches. So obviously it was
going to be at some stage. But suddenly we're having dinner,
and we finished dinner, and he got up from dinner
and he actually went into the living room actually threw
up and he was in enormous spain suddenly, and he
(04:55):
got on the floor and said, oh, it's unbearable, the
pain bearable. And I said to him, yes, Bump, you're dying.
And that was so that was the beginning.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
How did he take that?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
So?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
How did he take his death?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So the humans of his death?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Well, he'd said all along, I have no fear of death,
and I used to think, all along, wait until you get.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
There to one thing.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Not fearing death, it's another thing fearing dying, and dying
can be difficult. Being born's difficult. Life is difficult, and
dying can be difficult too.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But then I think it's wonderful.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
When you actually because I believe in that the spirit
and the soul, and I've seen enough of people dying
to be convinced there's an absolutely uplifting feeling as it
does as it leaves the body.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
What did he believe in? Particularly at that point I.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Sort of badged him with my ideas for twenty five years.
He'd started off an agnostic, and he was still probably agnostic, but.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
When he died, he wasn't. I mean, I could see
it on his face.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
He didn't say, oh my God, can I see heaven?
But there was such a heavenly look on his face
as I saw on my mother's face.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
What do you see level?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And the difference between do you see a difference between
those who are dying and have belief and faith in
those who don't. How does that express itself? How do
you see it play out?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
What I've I've seen or what I've experienced talking to families,
is that that they could see at the end that
they if they were quite sick. Because I always ask
I always ask my families, how was it the last
few days? And they always say to me and that,
you know, just about a few days before they died,
(07:21):
they had this really lucid moment where they sat up
and we had a really good conversation, conversation, and then
a few days later they passed away. And another thing
that I actually really would like to share is that
most of the families, they get really upset if their
(07:43):
person hasn't passed in front of them. They're waiting for
that moment. But I have found in all of the
many funerals I've done, I would say about eighty percent,
if not not more. The loved one usually passes away
and someone will just go out to the toilet there
or go. But I have I've had to explain that
(08:05):
to families because they're so upset. Like, you know, I
was sat there, I slept on by the side of
the side of the bed of my mother and I
was holding her hand and I just had it on
the toilet. I come back and she died on me,
you know, But it's so common.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Why are you have you heard this too?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Oh? Yes, it's very well known that because the loved
one is hanging on emotionally, psychologically to the one who's dying,
and so that the dying one can't leave in that
testic greb the moment with that, Yeah, I definitely, I.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Definitely move and I've I've heard the stories too many
times to not discount that. And I think at the
end of life, I think we just kind of resort
to being kind of like cats or dogs, you know,
how they go to a corner to die. I think
we kind of are are like that as well.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Were you there with Bob dot Ye holding his hand,
I'd done a very foolish thing. Before I'd spent all
day lying down beside him, and he had pneumonia. He
developed pneumonia, and I had an appointment with an acupuncturist
(09:23):
and I went to see her. She took my pulses,
which is the first thing you do with acupuncture, and
she said, what have you been doing? And I said,
I've been lying down with Bob.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
He's died. She said, you've got no pulses. You'll die,
she said, She.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Said, you've given him all your life energy and you
must stop. And you can only hold his hand. You
mustn't touch any more of his body than than that.
And indeed, while I was lying down beside him, He's
breathing improved, his color came back, he started, he was
(10:04):
he was had more fans.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was in a more than sleep. But he just
started to look good.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
And but as soon as I it just moved away
from him.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
He went back into pneumonia and die. Did you see
the moment? Yeah, oh yes, it was marvelous. It was.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He gave a huge sigh and then I felt.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I felt the room was full of angels.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
It was very very uplifting, It was very thrilling, and
the same thing with my mother. Actually, I was with
her when she died, and it was so exciting. I
wanted to ring her up immediately and say, hey, Mom,
guess what.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I just saw.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
She probably do.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
What kind of descriptions do you hear of the moment?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, I hear the same as well, that when they
finally took their last breath, they just looked so peaceful,
and they looked without pain. Yeah. But in saying that,
because I am, I do the funerals, like you know,
a few days after they die. A lot of things
happen at the funerals too, like you know, birds brushing
up against the window when they mentioned their name, or
(11:31):
you know, light fluttering in when you're doing a reflection.
So I've witnessed a lot of that, or even electric
electrics going out during certain motions and then someone will
ring out, Oh that's Mom. She always wanted to make
a big scene.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So I've witnessed a lot of that to know that
there is something beautiful, you know, beautiful on the other side.
And I feel when their body is still here on
the on the plane, like that time from when they
die to when the funeral, I feel there's there's soul,
their essences is really all around us, and some of
the essence does come out at the funeral and some
(12:09):
of the things people say and just yeah, it's just beautiful.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yes, it's a fusion, I suppose, like I'm feeling a
sense of a fusion of a spirit and whatever that
may be. But also our huge consciousness of them. You know,
there's so much consciousness of them where there's suddenly you know,
sometimes hundreds thousands of people will be thinking among this
person and remembering. You know that that's that's also a
(12:33):
life force in some ways, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yes, Yes, I remember at the private funeral, I had
no idea what I was going to say, and suddenly
I looked in my handbag and there was a piece
of paper with a poem on it, and there was
exactly the right thing. I hadn't seen the polt before,
but it was exactly the right thing to read in
the circumstance if someone popped it in there or no,
(13:01):
I'm weird.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I suppose I wondered about the experience of grief when
it's going to be that public and there's a public funeral,
but there was an also there's an immediate sorry, private funeral,
but there's also an immediate public thing you've got to
deal with with media and with the nation learning of
all that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
That was a nightmare, a real nightmare.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
I think I probably had a thousand emails and texts
for status, and I was really grieving, really really upset,
and so I'd go up shopping and burst into cheese
overs the Collie flowers. I have anything against college. And
(13:51):
I didn't have a moment really to grieve properly. I
mean I had the odd moments, but it was so
busy once he died because of who he was and
everybody wanting his slice of the salami. Basically, yeah, how'd
you handle it? You just do James, It wouldn't stuff
(14:14):
gets thrown. Actually, you just handle it as best you can.
Whether I did it well or really, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So then what how did you handle your grief?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Did you have to do that?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Later?
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Unfortunately, and I got so the next year I got
breast cancer, and I do think that was grief. He
died in May, I moved out of the house in September,
and I was diagnosed with breast cancer in February.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, that's too much isn't it. Well, it's lice, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It just got to accept this, yeah, because it seems
to unimaginable, like just having to have so much to process,
even to hold.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
There's a whole other complication.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
And people still come up to me almost six years
later and say I wish he was still here.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, that's quite common, especially as we approach it. Yeah,
well yes, I could feel that too. And is that
is that a nice thing? Is it nice even remembered
like that?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yes, because it's always very civil and kind.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And yeah, I think people feel like they know him,
even though he wasn't you know, their husband or father.
They wanted a piece of him, and I think they
wanted to fully grieve and honor his life. And that's
why having that public chunel was very was very necessary,
because I do think memorials or anything is necessary, even
(15:52):
if you just for five minutes, it's like, let's just
stop and think about whoever's passed.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
We need that, We need that.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
And I've seen too often in my in the over
the years where a ladies passed who was in her eighties,
and what was going to be put in the coffin
with her were ashes from her stillborn child. So she
never did a ceremony for that. And I remember her
husband was telling me, said, you know, she always talked
(16:20):
about her her stillborn and they never knew what to
do with the ashes. And so I think if they
would have had just a little bit of a ceremony
honoring that that child or the still birth, that would
have helped for them to go further.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So we just need it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
We just need moments to get together.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And tell me more about why I think it's necessary.
What what?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
What is the because because a lot of people will
say the cowboy box will be out and with the rubbish,
you know, helping the top panic, let the criers have
a go, you know, like you get that sort of expression,
but then you're you know what you're saying is it's
very important nothing not just for the person that's died,
almost more for everybody else.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I think.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I think funerals and of life ceremonies are really important
for the people who are left behind, Like just us
being together and honoring that person in a space and
having this sort of energy directed towards this person that
we love. But but people they don't want to have
these ceremonies and and I don't I don't know if
(17:20):
it's an Australian thing, you know, because I've heard that
a lot. Just put me out on the you know,
on the trash and I'll be I'll be right, mate.
But I think I think honoring that person is really
important just for those who are left behind Australian Astralia.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And because.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think, yeah, well, I think a lot of the
a lot of the discussions we've been having here, all
the point of these discussions in this in this series
has been because we've lost you know, if half of
us were Catholics, they have a half for Anglicans, and
you know, there were a few other sacs alongside that
gave us the structures and gave us the rituals of
the funeral. Whereas these discussions them, a lot of it
(18:01):
it's been about well, if you're not that, and that
is an increasingly larger proportion of the population, Well what
is it?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
What are you mark? What is death? What is the funeral?
What is the ceremony for? What? What's the funeral?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
For?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
The funeral is to celebrate the life.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
And I might say that although I want an inexpensive
casket or coffin, I don't want and nothing funeral. I
want when the Saints go marching in played at the
end of it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yes, is fun Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Did Bob have much planning in the memorial? Did he
think about that?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
No?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
None, Unlike Goth yea god planned his funeral down to
the last t.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Bob lifted entirely to others. He didn't even think about it.
And what what hand did you have in that?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Was that something where it was it was hard to
express perhaps your love because there's protocol, there's stuff that
had to be done.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Oh well, there was a number of formal speakers who
had to be there, and I wasn't one of those.
The one person representing the family was his eldest child,
so and then all the rest were polices.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And did it feel like you were did that feel
like a memorial of Bob Hawk or did you know
the Bobhork you knew or the Bob Hawk we knew
it was a Bumbhork the public.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
But there was also a lot of, as you would say,
a lot of information in that.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, And I'd like to share this that
at a funeral, at least eighty percent of the guests there,
we'll find out something new about a person that they
never knew and we can all relate to that. So
it's very common. And even sons and daughters I've found
they know very little about their parents from before they
(19:53):
were born. So you know, they don't even know this
basic sort of questions when you ask them along where
they were married, but they don't know the basic question.
So I think there is a need to talk about
you know, talk about our lives more, not talk about death,
but talk about our lives more so that our children,
you know, know about our lives before you know.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I think it's one of the last aspects of a
funeral is find that relative you don't know very well
and have a chat. I mean, so much will come out,
great stories will come out, and there will be those
things like what do you mean they did that after
the war?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
What are you talking about? You know, because often that
will never say it. How, Budge, how do you think
we should talk about death? Positively?
Speaker 4 (20:37):
It's inevitable and therefore to be not to be feared
and shrunken away from, but to anticipate with a certain
degree of excite. Look, I think it's a great adventure
because we don't know what's going to happen afterwards. But
if you have a positive attitude, it's really worth looking
(21:02):
for looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, have you go with the positive attitude? Has it
that'll be pleased to see you? Stay?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Is that nice blouse?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Go on it.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
There?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Where should we Where should we be talking about deaths?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
When should we talk about death?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I well, I'm one of the very low percent percentage
of people who actually enjoy talking about death. And I've
been doing funerals for such a long long time, and
I find something really interesting is that I feel I
live my life really quite fully because of you never
know what's going to happen around the corner. And I
(21:38):
deal with all ages, you know, from from just a
baby to someone who's really old, but you know, deal
with suicides and people die in accidents. So I know
that life is really quite brief and is briefer than
we even think, you know. And yeah, so I don't
(22:00):
know what's the question.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean, I think it picks up a little more
more planned to say that. You know, it's a secular society,
as even more secular society.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Than ever was. We're even more removed from.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Death, and we go back a few generations.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
You know, and death was it death was at home,
the medicalized at home.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You know, the body would be in the home, children
would die. You know, we're around that death a lot
more so. I mean, now it's it's it's separated from us,
and then we don't even talk about it. So and
I suppose I'm interested in sort of when, you know,
do we should it be in schools?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Do we talk? Should we talk about it? You know
more do you talk to your parents about their funeral plans?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
When should we talk about it?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I think we should bring it in as soon as
soon as possible, because we have animals that die. We
just need kids to know what it is to die,
grandparents who died, and you know, bring it, bring it
in as soon as possible, and elementary school, high school
or you know, we just need to get that conversation,
conversation going. Unfortunately, we only think about it when we're
(22:59):
die gnosed with something or if we lose a loved one.
We think about it. Then we think life, We can
live life infinitely, but then something happens. So I know
it's probably not not the topic that people want to
talk about, but there can be something quite beautiful, like
when we start talking about our funeral songs. When we
just start talking about our lives, I think it's I
(23:21):
think it's quite exciting.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
So yeah, I think it's But obviously for kids it's
when their grandparents die. Is that well, sometimes they're already
adults when their grandparents died, but.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
It's the little kids start talking then.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, well, increasingly like when my grandpo when my first
grandmother died, I was maybe said, right or something like that,
was not done to take the children to the funeral.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
But now I think we do bring the children to
the f I think.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
That's giant, yes, And I think that's that's positive. And
actually that's an uplifting funeral. Yeah, that's right, that's right,
or even if it's even if it's not, I mean
children should experience that too, shouldn't they They should understand
the breadth of that emotion.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
But whether it's uplifting or not doesn't depend on the
nature of the death. No.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I do think that sometimes when a person does die
tragically accident or suicide or even murdered, there should be
this there should be like an authenticity about saying what happened,
but really just the one sentence because I know that
you want to address the elephant in the room because
(24:40):
people often say, oh god, how's she going to do this?
So I often say, you know, there's there's no words
of comfort, you know that we can really say that.
You know, she's died tragically, and you do have to
use the word died. She's died tragically, but that's not
who she was. This was just an event that was
you know, it just took her life. We're not going
to focus on that. We're going to focus on, you know,
(25:01):
what she loved to do, the music she loved, the
people she loved. But I do think you do need
to address that. You can't sugarcoat that. So so sometimes
celebrates and priests they do make it all about the death.
But you know, but I do think it is important
to address the death and and be transparent about that,
(25:22):
and then then you focus on the celebration.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So I use the word died all the time too,
Like I'm a daily writing broadcast the rule of my people.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
That's say they died yesterday, they died.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Died in the past pastway. I don't like it. I
didn't that's it, they died, But it's such sense to
I don't know, it makes it. The euphemism sort of know,
it takes away from the solemnity, the significance, you know,
the I think we were talking before about you. We
don't think people want to talk about it. I think
(25:54):
people love telling me about it. And again on the
right as show, we do quite often people love it.
You know, they righting, they engage, they want to talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I did it to it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I was with a friend the other night and I
for some reason it came up, and I mean I
started talking about my beliefs whatever, and you see, the
friend just suddenly stepped and went, well, this is interesting,
you know, like it's sort of the whole conversations fact
I was like at a whole new level and in
a relationship, you know, And I think that that's what
(26:25):
these conversations are about, is hopefully they encourage you know,
other people listening to have.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Them to talk about that and of those that check.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, how funerals change, perhaps even in the course of
your seventeen years over the six hundred, but also yeah,
maybe gonna remember your grandmother's or something like that.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
How do anythink funerals have changed?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Well, funerals have definitely changed in the last few years.
Mainly because of COVID and we're using technology more. And
also what I've noticed as well is that there are
people who will have a private cre nation and then
have a huge memorial, maybe not a week or two after,
but maybe in a month or two after. So they're
giving it a longer time to have like a more
(27:09):
of a bigger celebration of life. And so my father
died suddenly in nineteen ninety seven and my mom was
taking photos and this was the camera and I thought
that was I was so angry with.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Her in the future she was taking the funnel.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, it was was she was really upsetting me. And uh,
and but I'm so glad she did because I cherish
those photos. So I think it's become more mainstream for
people to take photos of the coffins, even you know,
film film the ceremony. It might not be live stream,
but they'll film the ceremonies. That's actually been more something
(27:47):
that's been more in common.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, the video tribute is is often a big part.
Now there'll be three or four minutes of fives and video.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yes, that's yeah, that's normal.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, that's normal. And I try not to have too
many tributes because you know, after five to six minutes,
the audience tends to tune out. And I've seen too
many funerals. Even if a person is a really good speaker,
it's really got to be sort of short and sharp.
And I know that sounds horrible for the ninety years,
but you can do it in three to four minutes
(28:19):
or to five minutes.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
And yeah, wow, Well a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much, Blanche.
You out, you know, remarkably still full of life. Books
are pouring out of you. Bunny Club available every good
books and libraries. It exists. It doesn't any time about
absolutely it's sex and murder. It's murdering sex right right.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I was a very engaging read, and it's been a
very engaging conversation with you as well.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Thank you so much for them for coming. Thank you,
great you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thank you beloved, Poolge and Eveland color own and you've
been listening to season six of Life's Booming Dying to Know,
brought to you by Australian Seniors. Please leave a review
and share this show with someone you know. Visit seniors
dot com dot a u slash podcast for more episodes.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
May your Life be booming.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I'm James hellent Tart
Hi, I'm James Valentine. Welcome to Life's Booming. This season
is dying to know. We're having the conversations that are
often the hardest to have with people who've experienced life's
one great certainty.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Death.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
It touches everyone, But how we honor our loved ones
in death is changing, with most of us now preferring
to focus on celebrating life than rather than mourning at funerals.
So in this episode, we explore some of the new
ways people are choosing to commemorate life, as well as
hearing first hand experience of what it's like to grieve
in the public eye. Generously sharing their professional and personal
(00:39):
stories are our guests. Evelyn color Unan is an experienced
celebrant who specializes in living funerals and blast Apooge is
an acclaimed author and widow a former Australian Prime Minister
Bob Hawk Ceveland Blanche Bob with Life's Booming.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Oh thank you, James. Evelyn.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
You describe yourself as end of life celebrant. What exactly
does that mean?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
End of so I've done I've done ceremonies as well.
I used to be a wedding celebrant and I've married
a few couples where one of the partners was diagnosed
with a terminal illness, so I would do the ceremony,
and that turned out to be sort of a life celebration,
(01:20):
and they just wanted to marry before one of them died.
So and then I've done a ceremony where the person
was actually dying and we did the end of life
sort of life celebration for him, and he passed away
I think ten days after the ceremony. That's why I
think it's it's best just to celebrate life now, like
(01:41):
have those milestone birthdays or whatever birthday number you're turning
and have a great party. Now, why wait till you
have a diagnosis or a terminal illness that's looming. So
it's important to have those those celebrations now. However, in
saying that, sometimes people are diagnosed and like, oh god,
I didn't have that, so I want to have something now.
(02:03):
I did do a life celebration for my girlfriend who
was diagnosed with cancer, and I did a little bit
of a ceremony and a ritual and I shared a
poem and I was getting a bit too sad for
everybody there because we were really, it was like a
seventies party. We're all dressed up and enjoying each other's company.
And then after a while we could tell people really
getting upset because of her diagnosis. And then she came
(02:25):
on the microphone she said, Okay, okay, that's enough, Evelyn,
Let's go on to karaoke. You know. So, yeah, it
turned out to be a lovely celebration, and she wanted
to invite people there from all parts of her life
and just be able to have a good party with
them while she was still feeling well. Yeah, yeah, And
(02:46):
I've done about six hundred end of life ceremonies.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It just sounds like six hundred sounds like a law.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah, but in the context of seventeen years, that's really not.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
I think the thing is struck. Maybe about that number
was it. Did it get routine?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Not really.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I mean a lot of the script is, or the
script that I have. I mean, there's only so many
ways you can say, I'd like to welcome everyone here today.
So I'll write a ceremony and I might say, oh,
you know, Joe blow leaves behind his loving sister, and
then the parents will come back. I'll say, please take
loving out they couldn't stand each other. So you know,
(03:23):
there's a lot of adjectives that are changed because I
kind of make my ceremonies quite flowery and people like
to change that and make it more real.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So yeah, but you had the experience of, in a way,
one of the biggest funeral, the biggest moments of public
grief in Australian life, the death of Bob Hawk and
the funeral and memorial service of Bob Hawk. The how
much did you and Bob plan those events together?
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Not at all? No, No, that was all left up
to me, right, Oh, so you planned those bits.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
So yeah, because my understanding is Bob knew he was dying, right,
you knew it was. It's a year before that kind
of think. You knew it was, would well be coming.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
You don't know exactly when when he started dying. It
just felt like an axe. It was very sudden, out
of the blue. We were having dinner and he was
in a bad way. He was in a lot of
pain from peripheral neuropathy, so he was on morphine tablets
(04:33):
and the defends and all patches. So obviously it was
going to be at some stage. But suddenly we're having dinner,
and we finished dinner, and he got up from dinner
and he actually went into the living room actually threw
up and he was in enormous spain suddenly, and he
(04:55):
got on the floor and said, oh, it's unbearable, the
pain bearable. And I said to him, yes, Bump, you're dying.
And that was so that was the beginning.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
How did he take that?
Speaker 4 (05:12):
So?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
How did he take his death?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So the humans of his death?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Well, he'd said all along, I have no fear of death,
and I used to think, all along, wait until you get.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
There to one thing.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Not fearing death, it's another thing fearing dying, and dying
can be difficult. Being born's difficult. Life is difficult, and
dying can be difficult too.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
But then I think it's wonderful.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
When you actually because I believe in that the spirit
and the soul, and I've seen enough of people dying
to be convinced there's an absolutely uplifting feeling as it
does as it leaves the body.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
What did he believe in? Particularly at that point I.
Speaker 4 (06:12):
Sort of badged him with my ideas for twenty five years.
He'd started off an agnostic, and he was still probably agnostic, but.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
When he died, he wasn't. I mean, I could see
it on his face.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
He didn't say, oh my God, can I see heaven?
But there was such a heavenly look on his face
as I saw on my mother's face.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
What do you see level?
Speaker 1 (06:49):
And the difference between do you see a difference between
those who are dying and have belief and faith in
those who don't. How does that express itself? How do
you see it play out?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
What I've I've seen or what I've experienced talking to families,
is that that they could see at the end that
they if they were quite sick. Because I always ask
I always ask my families, how was it the last
few days? And they always say to me and that,
you know, just about a few days before they died,
(07:21):
they had this really lucid moment where they sat up
and we had a really good conversation, conversation, and then
a few days later they passed away. And another thing
that I actually really would like to share is that
most of the families, they get really upset if their
(07:43):
person hasn't passed in front of them. They're waiting for
that moment. But I have found in all of the
many funerals I've done, I would say about eighty percent,
if not not more. The loved one usually passes away
and someone will just go out to the toilet there
or go. But I have I've had to explain that
(08:05):
to families because they're so upset. Like, you know, I
was sat there, I slept on by the side of
the side of the bed of my mother and I
was holding her hand and I just had it on
the toilet. I come back and she died on me,
you know, But it's so common.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Why are you have you heard this too?
Speaker 4 (08:22):
Oh? Yes, it's very well known that because the loved
one is hanging on emotionally, psychologically to the one who's dying,
and so that the dying one can't leave in that
testic greb the moment with that, Yeah, I definitely, I.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Definitely move and I've I've heard the stories too many
times to not discount that. And I think at the
end of life, I think we just kind of resort
to being kind of like cats or dogs, you know,
how they go to a corner to die. I think
we kind of are are like that as well.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Were you there with Bob dot Ye holding his hand,
I'd done a very foolish thing. Before I'd spent all
day lying down beside him, and he had pneumonia. He
developed pneumonia, and I had an appointment with an acupuncturist
(09:23):
and I went to see her. She took my pulses,
which is the first thing you do with acupuncture, and
she said, what have you been doing? And I said,
I've been lying down with Bob.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
He's died. She said, you've got no pulses. You'll die,
she said, She.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
Said, you've given him all your life energy and you
must stop. And you can only hold his hand. You
mustn't touch any more of his body than than that.
And indeed, while I was lying down beside him, He's
breathing improved, his color came back, he started, he was
(10:04):
he was had more fans.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was in a more than sleep. But he just
started to look good.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
And but as soon as I it just moved away
from him.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
He went back into pneumonia and die. Did you see
the moment? Yeah, oh yes, it was marvelous. It was.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He gave a huge sigh and then I felt.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I felt the room was full of angels.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
It was very very uplifting, It was very thrilling, and
the same thing with my mother. Actually, I was with
her when she died, and it was so exciting. I
wanted to ring her up immediately and say, hey, Mom,
guess what.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I just saw.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
She probably do.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
What kind of descriptions do you hear of the moment?
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Yeah, I hear the same as well, that when they
finally took their last breath, they just looked so peaceful,
and they looked without pain. Yeah. But in saying that,
because I am, I do the funerals, like you know,
a few days after they die. A lot of things
happen at the funerals too, like you know, birds brushing
up against the window when they mentioned their name, or
(11:31):
you know, light fluttering in when you're doing a reflection.
So I've witnessed a lot of that, or even electric
electrics going out during certain motions and then someone will
ring out, Oh that's Mom. She always wanted to make
a big scene.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
So I've witnessed a lot of that to know that
there is something beautiful, you know, beautiful on the other side.
And I feel when their body is still here on
the on the plane, like that time from when they
die to when the funeral, I feel there's there's soul,
their essences is really all around us, and some of
the essence does come out at the funeral and some
(12:09):
of the things people say and just yeah, it's just beautiful.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yes, it's a fusion, I suppose, like I'm feeling a
sense of a fusion of a spirit and whatever that
may be. But also our huge consciousness of them. You know,
there's so much consciousness of them where there's suddenly you know,
sometimes hundreds thousands of people will be thinking among this
person and remembering. You know that that's that's also a
(12:33):
life force in some ways, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (12:35):
Yes, Yes, I remember at the private funeral, I had
no idea what I was going to say, and suddenly
I looked in my handbag and there was a piece
of paper with a poem on it, and there was
exactly the right thing. I hadn't seen the polt before,
but it was exactly the right thing to read in
the circumstance if someone popped it in there or no,
(13:01):
I'm weird.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I suppose I wondered about the experience of grief when
it's going to be that public and there's a public funeral,
but there was an also there's an immediate sorry, private funeral,
but there's also an immediate public thing you've got to
deal with with media and with the nation learning of
all that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
That was a nightmare, a real nightmare.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
I think I probably had a thousand emails and texts
for status, and I was really grieving, really really upset,
and so I'd go up shopping and burst into cheese
overs the Collie flowers. I have anything against college. And
(13:51):
I didn't have a moment really to grieve properly. I
mean I had the odd moments, but it was so
busy once he died because of who he was and
everybody wanting his slice of the salami. Basically, yeah, how'd
you handle it? You just do James, It wouldn't stuff
(14:14):
gets thrown. Actually, you just handle it as best you can.
Whether I did it well or really, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
So then what how did you handle your grief?
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Did you have to do that?
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Later?
Speaker 4 (14:26):
Unfortunately, and I got so the next year I got
breast cancer, and I do think that was grief. He
died in May, I moved out of the house in September,
and I was diagnosed with breast cancer in February.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, that's too much isn't it. Well, it's lice, you know.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
It just got to accept this, yeah, because it seems
to unimaginable, like just having to have so much to process,
even to hold.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
There's a whole other complication.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
And people still come up to me almost six years
later and say I wish he was still here.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, that's quite common, especially as we approach it. Yeah,
well yes, I could feel that too. And is that
is that a nice thing? Is it nice even remembered
like that?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Yes, because it's always very civil and kind.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And yeah, I think people feel like they know him,
even though he wasn't you know, their husband or father.
They wanted a piece of him, and I think they
wanted to fully grieve and honor his life. And that's
why having that public chunel was very was very necessary,
because I do think memorials or anything is necessary, even
(15:52):
if you just for five minutes, it's like, let's just
stop and think about whoever's passed.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
We need that, We need that.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
And I've seen too often in my in the over
the years where a ladies passed who was in her eighties,
and what was going to be put in the coffin
with her were ashes from her stillborn child. So she
never did a ceremony for that. And I remember her
husband was telling me, said, you know, she always talked
(16:20):
about her her stillborn and they never knew what to
do with the ashes. And so I think if they
would have had just a little bit of a ceremony
honoring that that child or the still birth, that would
have helped for them to go further.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
So we just need it.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
We just need moments to get together.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
And tell me more about why I think it's necessary.
What what?
Speaker 1 (16:41):
What is the because because a lot of people will
say the cowboy box will be out and with the rubbish,
you know, helping the top panic, let the criers have
a go, you know, like you get that sort of expression,
but then you're you know what you're saying is it's
very important nothing not just for the person that's died,
almost more for everybody else.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
I think.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
I think funerals and of life ceremonies are really important
for the people who are left behind, Like just us
being together and honoring that person in a space and
having this sort of energy directed towards this person that
we love. But but people they don't want to have
these ceremonies and and I don't I don't know if
(17:20):
it's an Australian thing, you know, because I've heard that
a lot. Just put me out on the you know,
on the trash and I'll be I'll be right, mate.
But I think I think honoring that person is really
important just for those who are left behind Australian Astralia.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
And because.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I think, yeah, well, I think a lot of the
a lot of the discussions we've been having here, all
the point of these discussions in this in this series
has been because we've lost you know, if half of
us were Catholics, they have a half for Anglicans, and
you know, there were a few other sacs alongside that
gave us the structures and gave us the rituals of
the funeral. Whereas these discussions them, a lot of it
(18:01):
it's been about well, if you're not that, and that
is an increasingly larger proportion of the population, Well what
is it?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
What are you mark? What is death? What is the funeral?
What is the ceremony for? What? What's the funeral?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
For?
Speaker 2 (18:13):
The funeral is to celebrate the life.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
And I might say that although I want an inexpensive
casket or coffin, I don't want and nothing funeral. I
want when the Saints go marching in played at the
end of it.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Yes, is fun Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Did Bob have much planning in the memorial? Did he
think about that?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
No?
Speaker 4 (18:36):
None, Unlike Goth yea god planned his funeral down to
the last t.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Bob lifted entirely to others. He didn't even think about it.
And what what hand did you have in that?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Was that something where it was it was hard to
express perhaps your love because there's protocol, there's stuff that
had to be done.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Oh well, there was a number of formal speakers who
had to be there, and I wasn't one of those.
The one person representing the family was his eldest child,
so and then all the rest were polices.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And did it feel like you were did that feel
like a memorial of Bob Hawk or did you know
the Bobhork you knew or the Bob Hawk we knew
it was a Bumbhork the public.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
But there was also a lot of, as you would say,
a lot of information in that.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, And I'd like to share this that
at a funeral, at least eighty percent of the guests there,
we'll find out something new about a person that they
never knew and we can all relate to that. So
it's very common. And even sons and daughters I've found
they know very little about their parents from before they
(19:53):
were born. So you know, they don't even know this
basic sort of questions when you ask them along where
they were married, but they don't know the basic question.
So I think there is a need to talk about
you know, talk about our lives more, not talk about death,
but talk about our lives more so that our children,
you know, know about our lives before you know.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I think it's one of the last aspects of a
funeral is find that relative you don't know very well
and have a chat. I mean, so much will come out,
great stories will come out, and there will be those
things like what do you mean they did that after
the war?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
What are you talking about? You know, because often that
will never say it. How, Budge, how do you think
we should talk about death? Positively?
Speaker 4 (20:37):
It's inevitable and therefore to be not to be feared
and shrunken away from, but to anticipate with a certain
degree of excite. Look, I think it's a great adventure
because we don't know what's going to happen afterwards. But
if you have a positive attitude, it's really worth looking
(21:02):
for looking forward to.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, have you go with the positive attitude? Has it
that'll be pleased to see you? Stay?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Is that nice blouse?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
Go on it.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
There?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Where should we Where should we be talking about deaths?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
When should we talk about death?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
I well, I'm one of the very low percent percentage
of people who actually enjoy talking about death. And I've
been doing funerals for such a long long time, and
I find something really interesting is that I feel I
live my life really quite fully because of you never
know what's going to happen around the corner. And I
(21:38):
deal with all ages, you know, from from just a
baby to someone who's really old, but you know, deal
with suicides and people die in accidents. So I know
that life is really quite brief and is briefer than
we even think, you know. And yeah, so I don't
(22:00):
know what's the question.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
I mean, I think it picks up a little more
more planned to say that. You know, it's a secular society,
as even more secular society.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Than ever was. We're even more removed from.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Death, and we go back a few generations.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
You know, and death was it death was at home,
the medicalized at home.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
You know, the body would be in the home, children
would die. You know, we're around that death a lot
more so. I mean, now it's it's it's separated from us,
and then we don't even talk about it. So and
I suppose I'm interested in sort of when, you know,
do we should it be in schools?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Do we talk? Should we talk about it? You know
more do you talk to your parents about their funeral plans?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Like?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
When should we talk about it?
Speaker 3 (22:38):
I think we should bring it in as soon as
soon as possible, because we have animals that die. We
just need kids to know what it is to die,
grandparents who died, and you know, bring it, bring it
in as soon as possible, and elementary school, high school
or you know, we just need to get that conversation,
conversation going. Unfortunately, we only think about it when we're
(22:59):
die gnosed with something or if we lose a loved one.
We think about it. Then we think life, We can
live life infinitely, but then something happens. So I know
it's probably not not the topic that people want to
talk about, but there can be something quite beautiful, like
when we start talking about our funeral songs. When we
just start talking about our lives, I think it's I
(23:21):
think it's quite exciting.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
So yeah, I think it's But obviously for kids it's
when their grandparents die. Is that well, sometimes they're already
adults when their grandparents died, but.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
It's the little kids start talking then.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, well, increasingly like when my grandpo when my first
grandmother died, I was maybe said, right or something like that,
was not done to take the children to the funeral.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
But now I think we do bring the children to
the f I think.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
That's giant, yes, And I think that's that's positive. And
actually that's an uplifting funeral. Yeah, that's right, that's right,
or even if it's even if it's not, I mean
children should experience that too, shouldn't they They should understand
the breadth of that emotion.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
But whether it's uplifting or not doesn't depend on the
nature of the death. No.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I do think that sometimes when a person does die
tragically accident or suicide or even murdered, there should be
this there should be like an authenticity about saying what happened,
but really just the one sentence because I know that
you want to address the elephant in the room because
(24:40):
people often say, oh god, how's she going to do this?
So I often say, you know, there's there's no words
of comfort, you know that we can really say that.
You know, she's died tragically, and you do have to
use the word died. She's died tragically, but that's not
who she was. This was just an event that was
you know, it just took her life. We're not going
to focus on that. We're going to focus on, you know,
(25:01):
what she loved to do, the music she loved, the
people she loved. But I do think you do need
to address that. You can't sugarcoat that. So so sometimes
celebrates and priests they do make it all about the death.
But you know, but I do think it is important
to address the death and and be transparent about that,
(25:22):
and then then you focus on the celebration.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So I use the word died all the time too,
Like I'm a daily writing broadcast the rule of my people.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
That's say they died yesterday, they died.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Died in the past pastway. I don't like it. I
didn't that's it, they died, But it's such sense to
I don't know, it makes it. The euphemism sort of know,
it takes away from the solemnity, the significance, you know,
the I think we were talking before about you. We
don't think people want to talk about it. I think
(25:54):
people love telling me about it. And again on the
right as show, we do quite often people love it.
You know, they righting, they engage, they want to talk
about it.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
I did it to it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
I was with a friend the other night and I
for some reason it came up, and I mean I
started talking about my beliefs whatever, and you see, the
friend just suddenly stepped and went, well, this is interesting,
you know, like it's sort of the whole conversations fact
I was like at a whole new level and in
a relationship, you know, And I think that that's what
(26:25):
these conversations are about, is hopefully they encourage you know,
other people listening to have.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Them to talk about that and of those that check.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, how funerals change, perhaps even in the course of
your seventeen years over the six hundred, but also yeah,
maybe gonna remember your grandmother's or something like that.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
How do anythink funerals have changed?
Speaker 3 (26:47):
Well, funerals have definitely changed in the last few years.
Mainly because of COVID and we're using technology more. And
also what I've noticed as well is that there are
people who will have a private cre nation and then
have a huge memorial, maybe not a week or two after,
but maybe in a month or two after. So they're
giving it a longer time to have like a more
(27:09):
of a bigger celebration of life. And so my father
died suddenly in nineteen ninety seven and my mom was
taking photos and this was the camera and I thought
that was I was so angry with.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Her in the future she was taking the funnel.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah, it was was she was really upsetting me. And uh,
and but I'm so glad she did because I cherish
those photos. So I think it's become more mainstream for
people to take photos of the coffins, even you know,
film film the ceremony. It might not be live stream,
but they'll film the ceremonies. That's actually been more something
(27:47):
that's been more in common.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
Yeah, the video tribute is is often a big part.
Now there'll be three or four minutes of fives and video.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yes, that's yeah, that's normal.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, that's normal. And I try not to have too
many tributes because you know, after five to six minutes,
the audience tends to tune out. And I've seen too
many funerals. Even if a person is a really good speaker,
it's really got to be sort of short and sharp.
And I know that sounds horrible for the ninety years,
but you can do it in three to four minutes
(28:19):
or to five minutes.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
And yeah, wow, Well a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much, Blanche.
You out, you know, remarkably still full of life. Books
are pouring out of you. Bunny Club available every good
books and libraries. It exists. It doesn't any time about
absolutely it's sex and murder. It's murdering sex right right.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
I was a very engaging read, and it's been a
very engaging conversation with you as well.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Thank you so much for them for coming. Thank you,
great you, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Thank you beloved, Poolge and Eveland color own and you've
been listening to season six of Life's Booming Dying to Know,
brought to you by Australian Seniors. Please leave a review
and share this show with someone you know. Visit seniors
dot com dot a u slash podcast for more episodes.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
May your Life be booming.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
I'm James hellent Tart
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