December 28, 2025 • 46 mins
This summer we are curating your Lowbrow podcast playlist bringing you the insanely popular and always funny - brutally honest reviews from our friends on The Spill. Enjoy!
Today we’re breaking our own rules to bring you a brutally honest review of We Were Liars. It didn’t just drop — but the amount of DMs we’ve had from Spill listeners demanding this ep was too wild to ignore.
We unpack the chaotic characters, the eerie mystery at the heart of it all, and the twist that left people gasping (spoiler alert: we have thoughts). Plus, the nepo baby casting you might’ve missed and the sneaky easter eggs that hinted at the ending all along.
This one’s messy, dramatic and full of opinions — just how you like it.
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CREDITS
Hosts: Laura Brodnik and Em Vernem
Executive Producer: Monisha Iswaran
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
So you're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's Laura Brodneck here, host of our pop culture and
entertainment podcast The Spill, and this summer we're curating your
lowbrow playlist, bringing you our brutally honest reviews from the
top TV shows of the year, to the biggest movies
of twenty twenty five, and some of the classics that
shaped us. Every episode is giving you the Spills, completely
(00:39):
unfiltered and real takes. So your summer listening is sorted.
And if you're looking for more to listen to, every
Mamma Mea podcast is curating your summer listening right across
our network. From pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews,
there is something for everyone. Just follow the link in
our show notes.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to The Spill, your daily pop
culture fix. I'm m Vernon, I'm Laura brode and today
we have a very special, brutally honest review of We
Were Liars.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And also is that.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
The same song?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think that was like some Scooby Doo thing.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I just think, yeah, this is great trench of things.
Maybe yeah, just bring it all the different genres.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
All the psychological thrillers.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Now this is actually a world first on this spill
history is being made because we're about to break the
rules of a broodly honest review.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And not only were breaking the rules, but I suggested it.
I know, and I never break the rules.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, and you set them as well. I don't know.
This is all you.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You set them, I enforced them. I'm super fun to
hang out with.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So the reason why breaking the rules is because we
usually do our brutally honest reviews. There's true different kinds, right,
so either it's a TV show or movie that's in
the zy guy so that everyone's talking about. We usually
wait a week before we do our Briodley Onnest review
just so everyone has time to watch it and digest it,
because we do do spoilers in this, so there will
be spoilers for if we were lies. If you haven't
(02:13):
watched it, make sure you watch it. Or we do
a Broodley on a t review on like a big
cult classic that's happened in the past. We recently did
one on Clueless.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yes, that was our first time doing like a cult classic.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We'll put in our show notes for you to listen
to people.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You guys loved it, so more of those to come.
But yeah, we're like, what two months late on this one?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Two months late? Look, I do think I play a
part in this, because you had watched We Were Liars,
and you also mentioned it in our weekend watch.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Twice I'd recommend it a weekend watch it, and I
had to follow up like, sorry, everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's more dramatic than what we originally put out. Yeah,
but also that's part of the big surprise. Part of
the surprise. It's now been like five years since the
show's come out. But the thing is is that we
were getting messages after messages. Our dms are flooded with
people wanting a brutally on a review of Were Liars.
(03:10):
So I watched it very recently, much later after everyone else.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, you watched it this weekend. Do you know how?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I know? Because I had told you to watch it,
and I didn't tell you anything about it, and you
were the only person in the world who hadn't seen
the spoilers because TikTok in particular was you couldn't scroll
through that platform without seeing the final scene, seeing people
reacting to it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
W that's crazy. That's why I was so surprised so
many people, because it's like my algorithm just didn't see
the show.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
The rest of the world was watching because we were
all getting these crazy messages being like, do a brilliant,
honest review. So I was standing on the red carpet
the logis and then I looked. I had my phone
on my hands, I had notes, and I was filming,
and I looked out on my phone. There's a message
from Emily Vernon, and I thought, oh my god, I
hope everything's okay, because.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We really text each other if something's gone wrong or
whatever at an event, and I can't find.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true, those two things.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
But no, Also, I knew that you knew I was
at the logis, and I was like, and she's busy
right now, So I thought, oh, she'd only text me
I it was an emergency.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I hope everything's okay. And I opened my phone and
there's just a photo.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Emily Vernon insaid, photo here, yeah, with red eyes, but
a single tear cascading down her perfect cheek and no text,
just a photo.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I know, but I knew.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I said, oh, you know what, this girl has just
watched the final episode of We Were Liars. Yes, so
big was your emotional reaction to it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
This series had me in such a choke hold because
I had planned for my whole weekend to be watching it,
because I'm a committed when it comes to binge watching
TV shows. I love doing it in one go and
I was like, oh, there's eight episodes. Each episode's about
like over fifty minutes long. It's gonna take me three days.
And then the weekend got away from me. So I
was like, oh, no, I have to watch it on
(04:53):
like Sunday and Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday, and like
make sure I past it out. I watched that whole
thing from Sunday eight am, and I think I finished
at around four people.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah you do. Once you get into that world, you
just have to.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Go gosh, okay, So I want to set the scene
of the world that we're about to enter. When I
first sat down to watch it, immediately my mind went to,
this feels like a mix between the Perfect Couple and
Big Little Lies. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I no, No, that's a very very children yeah, very
very astute observation. Emily Vernon, Yes, because I guess it's
that kind of trope that we've been seeing for a
while at least in book to TV and film adaptations,
in terms of like being able to like look into
these very wealthy, very problematic families with secrets all set
(05:42):
across the backdrop of their like lush, beautiful vacation homes
or like their picturesque beach homes, and knowing that the
final episode was going to reveal some huge secrets. So
it's a formula we keep seeing, but one we haven't
tired of yet.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yes, So it is a book adaptation with the same
name by E. Lockhart. I hadn't actually read the book.
Have you read the book?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Neither?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And this is probably why TV like, oh my God,
which is so rare for me. Should I read the
book first? Just because I've read a lot of books
and usually it works.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It also like really comes into our job, yeah, to
read it for a.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Lot, exactly it does.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And also I just usually if I hear something's being adapted,
I'm like, oh, I want to read the book first,
because I strongly believe that you should come to a
story the way it was first intended. So I always
believe book, then TV show, movie, But in this case,
it's like all of a sudden it appeared in front
of us and I was like, I'm just gonna watch it,
which I think was great for the TV show because
I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But the book came out like was it twenty fourteen?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yea, And then it also that it had a big
resurgence in twenty twenty during COVID on book Talk, all
the girls who were looked at home found it.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, the great book to read in lockdown. Then they're like,
this is the book for us, and then it had
like the re imaging when the show came out, and
now it's doing another way, which you're so right. I
always every time this happens, I'm like, oh, let me
read the book first, especially like and we know like
a lot of Emily Henry books are getting read, I'm
getting made into TV shows and movies, so I'm reading
all of them now, and I'm almost glad I didn't
(07:09):
do it for this. Yeah, Like I don't think I
would have had the same reaction I did have if
I had read the book first. And also this TV
show hasn't made me not want to read the book,
like I want to read the book even more. I've
seen some tiktoks, but they said that the book is
slightly different to the TV.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, they have.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Well, I mean I think that's the best. You know,
way to do an adaptation is like, if you're going
to do a beat for beat remake, what's the point. Also,
e Lockhart, the author, was heavily involved in the show,
and she wrote.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
The last episode, so a lot of the.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Changes are coming from her mind, the woman who created
these characters, and then writing them in a different way
for screens, so she can almost tell it two different stories. Yes,
it was almost a movie. Nearly five times scripts nearly
got made. It went back to a different studio, back
and forth, Like do you think it would have worked
as a movie.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
If this might be an it would have been better
for your weekend plan.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It would have been better. I actually think it would
have worked for a meal.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think what we would have missed is like the
deep analysis that we get from each character. I do
think the TV show made it more character lead than
plot iron lead, which I really enjoyed because it's really
hard to do that. They wouldn't be able to do
that if it was a movie, it had to be
plot lad, But I think it still would have worked
in a way.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I mean, yeah, look, I'm sure I would have watched it,
but I loved it more as a series. I feel
like you needed that to do justice to the book.
All right, So getting into the characters, because you're saying
it's a character led series. So we have Cadence and
Claire as our leading lady played by Emily Allan Lynde,
who if you watch the Gossip Girl reboot series, she
was the best part of it. I didn't even real
(08:44):
Audrey Yes with the bleach blonde hair, and she's the
one in the thropple, which was the best story. It
sends up being the best story. There's other great actresses
in that show, but she was the only one who
had God wow, really, I spent my.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Whole time watching this show going where is she from? Also,
wasn't like on like a Gossip Girl. I don't remember
seeing it on the IMDb because I looked at all
the IMDb's because I'm obsessed.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I was going to say, you were like, ohhre is
she from? And I was like, you know that, there's
a way to find that out.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Right, Yeah, and I didn't see gossip Girl on there.
But also I don't think gossip Girl really bit would
appear on a lot of.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I mean I liked to watched it. It was good.
Do you know who else? So there's a lot of
Nepo babies in this car.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Is a lot which is so perfect for the type
of characters.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I'm playing Julie Plack, who is one of the creators
and showrunners this series, who also did the Vampire Diaries
and the Originals and Legacies, all that whole cinematic.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Universe, Like I don't having all of those on the
about Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
My god, kind of say that woman knows how to
make great TV because.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
A LOGI knows how to create a cult fan base.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yes, yeah, I'm sure like chasing like critical acclaim, but
she's like she makes things for the fans.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, and also like our generation, like the show she's
making seems to be growing up with us. Yeah, she's
very smart.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
So she was one of the creators of this world
and kind of like bringing all these different characters together.
So we've got Emily Allen Lynn who's playing Cadence and yes,
a Neppo baby because did you didn't watch One Tree Hill.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
No, I knew there was something always you always, I know,
we talked about this multiple times.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And yet and we still haven't watched it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Literally, like we're living in now the resurgence of Chad
Michael Murray, you still have.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
True, that's true. If anything, that's why I should.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Go anyway for anyone else who is a human being
with a soul and has watched One Tree Hill. Her
mother is the actress who plays Nathan Scott's mother Deb
Scott on One Tree Hill, and she's a really important
character like the One Tree Hill universe.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
So she's deep nepo.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, okay, well I mean not as deep as some
other people in the cast.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Like when you're like a Meryl Streep.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, when you're.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Working with Meryl Stream's daughter, it's like you fall down
the bay quite hard.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Like no, I'll know, no, no, No, she's great though,
Like I think her acting is brilliant. But yeah, she
plays Katie Candice Sinclair, Yes, part of the Big Sinclair.
What I like about this is that it's just so bizarre,
Like I feel like we're in that phase where we're
obsessed with watching rich people on TV, and this series
just takes it a step further where they're not just rich,
(11:13):
but they're like owning private island. Rich.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, a private island.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So it's this beautiful island that they own, and it's
got different homes and like estates on it, like and
they're each like most of them are like a full mansion.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Full mansion. It's off the coast of Massachusetts. And I mean,
I don't know any part of that part of the US, but.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That you and I'll be going anytimes very well, I don't.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
They'll look they'll look at me and be like, you
can't afford you can look at it.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I can't even afford the ferry ride over time to
work on the fairy to come here as like a
handy man.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, you know how.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Maths Vineyard is like the fancy spot where it's like
so expensive to go there, it's so expensive to own property.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
This is the step up from that.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Like if you go down the coast to where even
the Martha's Vineyard, people.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Are too poor to go.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It's must be nice.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
It's not very often where I see a family where
I think, because usually you see a rich, problematic family,
but you're like, oh, i'd still kind of like to
live in that world.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I'd still love to.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Like have that wealth and be in that world and everything,
and even the family's awful. The Sinclair family are just
so terrible and just so like the deep unhappiness that
runs through them. It's one of the few times I've
seen a really rich family and thought absolutely not set
me away from those people.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Run Run Dad made me so so uncomfortable because the
family is kind of I guess alongside the island owned
by the patriarch of the family, Harris, who's the grandfather.
He has the biggest mansion on the island. As he does,
He's got three daughters who all have their other houses
on the island, some bigger than others.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
A big plotline is the renovations. Who's going to get
the next round of renovations. And they have kids who
are like all the same age who are known as
the Liars, yes, hence the title of the series. And
then they have like younger siblings who are known as
the Littles.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yes. So let's get into the three Sinclair daughters.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So Cannice King plays best, which is the youngest daughter. Yeah,
And then we have Mammy Gumba who plays Carrie, who's
the Is she the oldest, she's the oldest.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
And then Caitlyn Fitzgerald plays Penny, who's like the second oldest,
and she's the mum to Canvas.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yes, Now, Mammy Gummer, who is Meryl Streep's eldest daughter
at home's Mary. And because there's a rule in Meryl
Streep's family that the oldest daughter of the oldest daughter
has to always be called Mary. So like Meryl Streep's
name is Mary, and her mum's name is Mary, and
her mum's name is Mary. And I love that even
when you're Meryl Street, when you're that famous, you still
(13:45):
don't get to pick your daughter's name.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
She's like I wasn't lled to.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's like a Gilmore girl.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
So they all called Mary, and then they all have her,
so they're not all called Mary to like real life.
They all have like a nickname.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Oh my god, one day one of them is going
to only have sons and then all ruin this whole thing. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I actually wonder who the next little Mary nickname out
of all their kids is. Yes, so she she's the eldest.
And then Caitlin Fitzgeral is an actress that I've always loved.
She was in Unreal, you know that TV show that
was like about behind the scenes of a reality TV show. Yeah,
she's the lead in the second season that She's done
so much stuff. I loved her and sweet Better. She's
always a really interesting actress. But Candace King, oh my god,
(14:24):
Julie Pleax obviously as Julie Peck from Vampire Diaries. Candace
King's character in The Vampire Diaries, Caroline Forbes, is one
of the big breakout stars of that series and of
that franchise and is still one of the most beloved
characters to this day. And she and Julie Pleck remained
very close, and there was quite a lot of backlash.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I don't know if you saw this because you were
unaware of the show completely.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
And like the first time, there's a bit of backlash
when she was first cast because they were like, there's
no way this woman is old enough to play a
character with teenage daughters, and she is kind of on
the cuss she's like mid thirties. But Julie Pleck just
wanted her so much for this role, and she was
like once she's in the role, you will believe her
as this person, as this character, and I think you're
(15:08):
really she is so.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Good because I don't like her, which I know makes
her really really good. But I almost think they played
into her looking quite younger. Like that argument she had
with her daughter Miren in the Lighthouse I think was
the most like wonderful acting I've ever seen play out
between like a young mum and her daughter. It reminded
(15:31):
me so much of Gilmore Girls, actually, like just that struggle,
because you can see that there boats so unhappy, and
then the way she talks to her daughter is a
way that a mom should never talk to a daughter.
But you can tell that they're like on that brink
of like kind of like breaking up, but like obviously
you can't because it's your daughter. And you never really
see that get mended in the show it.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Is I do in movies and TV shows his mother
daughter bond being this beautiful, unbreakable thing, but theirs is
quite broken from the beginning, and you do get the
sense that even if like the horrific ending hadn't happened,
that it would never be quite kind of put back
together because she doesn't really have that realize best, like
you see later on where she was like, I was
so busy trying to make that my children be so
(16:14):
perfect that I forgot to love them, And having your
mother forget to love you is the most tragic thing
that could happen. But yeah, she's so good in this role.
And then we have the liars. So as we were
talking about yeah, Emily Allen Lynn playing Cadence, Julie Pleck
was saying that they did like a bit of an
open audition, So you know, sometimes they put a show
together and they have an actor and actress in mind
for a specific role, but for this one, it was
(16:34):
a bit of an open casting call and they received
thousands upon thousands of applications for each role.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, and I'm glad they did that because a lot
of the actors in this show, even though some of
them were in their bo babies, but a lot of
them was the first time I've seen them act and
the first time I've seen a performance of such a
fresh new cast, and I think it was executed so brilliantly.
I feel like I'm when a show that has such
a powerful plot twist and like plot line like this,
(17:03):
when you have like a too well known actor in
it. It really pulls away from the storyline and you're just
kind of like watching them the whole time and like
analyzing their character. And even though like it's obvious that
Katie is the lead of the show, it didn't distract
you from like diving deeper into all the other characters
and wanting to explore each one of them. But I
(17:24):
think that was done because of the great casting. So
Schuba Maheshwari, who's I'm pretty sure new to Hollywood, right.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
This is very first actor role.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
He plays Gas.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, Yeah, isn't that wild? He's so good.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
He is so good. I couldn't believe it because when
I looked at he was the only IMDb profile who
didn't have like a photo.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, so he was still at college, he'd never acted before.
He just sat in his audition tape and his headshot
that I think he took himself. And then he was
auditioning like from his college room, doing like the online
callback and he was sitting in class one day, never
acted before, never thought he would get this role, got
a call, stepped outside to take a call. Now, like
you've booked the role in this huge adaptation that hundreds
(18:04):
of actors in Hollywood are vying for So he did
a good job.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And his character is so inchegril to.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
The Yeah, integral to the plotlind.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Integral, also extremely good looking.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
These guys are all of age. We should say, so
you say whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
We're allowed. We're allowed. No, he's both hot and very
smart and really good looking, and that's great values.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, he's what's also interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I was reading it into Julie Pleck about how she
put the writer's room together for this show because obviously
e Lockhart was in there who wrote the books, but
they bring a whole team of writers in to write
these scripts, and she said it was really important to
her to make sure that they had writers of Indian
descent in the room to kind of protect the character
of Gatton, because so much about his family and his
life and the way he thinks differently to the other
(18:48):
liars is because of how he's been brought up is
such a big part of his character. So like, we
need to make sure that we have a diverse room
so it comes across on screen. And I know that
sounds like just of course, but it doesn't happen that often.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It doesn't happen as often. And I think his character
and the values that, like the struggle he had within
himself of like what value use he felt like he
needed to have versus what he needed to share with others,
and how he was like so torn throughout the whole
series of like how he was brought up versus like
how he lives now was just so well executed. I
(19:23):
think he was such a great character. And also his
character development between the summers was done really really well. Okay.
We then have Essa McGregor who plays Miron, who was
my favorite character.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Really Okay, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I was going to ask what you thought of her
as an act, So you and McGregor's daughter got her
one of her big breakout roles in way.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Is she yes? What do you mean that's not a secret.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I didn't know that. That's you and McGregor's daughter as
in Mulin Rouge. So proper nepo, Yeah, proper nepo.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
WHOA, she's like.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
My mom's been on one TV, so leave me alone.
No proper nepo. To the point I can kind of
see it now, you can see it, just picture her
face on Jedi's body. What a good looking family yeah,
what a good looking family. So yes, Esther McGregor got
one of her first big breakout roles in a little
movie that you and I saw together.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Called Baby Girl.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
She was the daughter.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
She was the daughter, Yeah, and I didn't like her
in that. Well, this is what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I'm there's some nipper babies where you look at them
and you're just like, yeah, that one would have been
famous anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Let them through, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And there's some of them like because Nicole Kidman was
the one who was like, this is you and McGregor's
daughter who's in our movie, and isn't it nice? Because
her father and I acted together on Molan Rouge. I
always look in the background of those videos when Nicole
Kimman was doing that, at Esther's face and being like,
does she want this front and setter?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Is it better to just say it?
Speaker 3 (20:52):
There's even a clip where you and MacGregor's been interviewed
on a red carpet and now Cole Kimmen comes up
behind him and he's like, ah and like Moulan Rouge Reunion,
and she's like his daughter's in my movie.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
We get it, we get it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So everyone had to do an Audish.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, yeah, this one just slept on through. So yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
At first, when I watched her in the show, I'm like, oh,
I don't know if she's not as strong as the others,
But then she was so great towards the end. I
think maybe she just had a smaller character build from
the others.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
It wasn't that she wasn't good.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I really started to love her character towards the end
of like Summer sixteen going into Summer seventeen, where you
can really see herself torn of like what she wants
to do versus who she thinks she has to be,
and it's the fight with her mom, and then like
grappling with new love and like wanting to experience everything
(21:43):
that she feels like a teenage girl should experience but
might not want to experience for herself. And then also
just being the quote unquote other girl next to your
super hot cousins yright, which she was like made it
so obvious. She's like Katie gets all the boys, Like
everyone like loves her, like she's the eldest grandchild. She's
gonna like get in all the inheritance, Like everyone wants
(22:04):
Katie to be like the most successful one of us,
like no one even sees me, like I'm so invisible.
And I think it's such a perfect role to play
for young women who are watching the show, who are
in that headspace. Yeah, and I think she executed it
really really well, even like right at the end and
I know I'm jumping way way ahead, like past the plotline,
(22:25):
but when she kind of comes back to Katie and
she was like, I hope people saw me for who
I am. I thought that was really important because in
those moments, you feel like that everyone's just going to
be like the other side is great, it's all happy,
like I'm so glad the life I lived, and she
actually left with so many regrets. Yeah, and I thought
that was so well done.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, my god, it was so well done. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
That scene in the art gallery at the end where
it kind of pans to her and she's kind of
realizing that maybe some people did see although they're seeing
her now, is a really beautiful moment.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Also, she's very funny online. She saw all the.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Reactions to people like screaming and crying at the ending,
not you because you missed it, And she was like
put on this video where she was dancing and then
she was like, don't blame me, I didn't rite it.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Classic k classic okay. And then we had the other cousin,
Joseph Zada, who plays Johnny Sinclair. He was a bad boy.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
He was great, our resident bad boy.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
That scene where he does the rock and roll dance scene, oh,
which is yeah, the playoff the Tom Cruise movie, which
was completely improvised.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Why is that seen in every single movie? Because Risky Business.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Is so good, it's so iconic.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It has that opening as soon as you do the
slide with the glasses and look around and hear that
beat like I know exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
White shirt high sucks slide on the floorboards. Yeah, and
then something great. Even people who.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Haven't seen Risky Business, like, it's such a that you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
No, I've seen okay business. I haven't seen it in
a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But Eve, people who haven't seen that movie know that scene.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
But it's so funny because they said they just put
the cameras on him and said go and let him
do it, so that whole thing is improvised.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
He probably did that and was like, I've seen my
dad do this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Also, again, that was really interesting introduction of him as
a character because as the show was coming out, it
was confirmed that he had been cast in like the
role that every young actor in Hollywood was chasing, which
is in the new Hunger Games movie Sunrise on the Reaping.
So everyone was like, this is that Hay Mitch, this
guy who's dancing around.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
The Oh my god. I just know because I feel
like this role was kind of like his starter and
now everyone's obsessed with this TV show. But I know
that in the new Hunger Games movie everyone's just gonna
be obsessed with Yes, oh my god. Okay with Johnny,
well say it, just say it's the same space unnecessary character.
(24:37):
What yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Why?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like I think his sole purpose was to be another
child for the other sister, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
No, but I think you need because Mirron and Johnny
kind of show the different ways that the Sinclair family
had affected the family outside of Cadence, who were kind
of seeing the story through her eyes. So you're seeing
Mirrorn shrink back into herself and like let her huge, wealthy,
crazy family overtake her. But then you have Johnny who
is swept up in this like fantasy world, and then
(25:08):
you also see him the fact that he is like
starting to identify his gad is looking up with a
guy trying to hide that from his family because he
knows at the end of the day that like there's
a way that Sinclair people live, and that whole plot
point of his mum using all their money to like
fix some mistake that he made. And also I think
he needed to show that it's the differences between him
and Gat and the way they grew up, the fact
(25:29):
that they were so close, they were best friends, they
hung out all the time outside of their trips to
the island because of the Gat's uncle was his pretty
much Defecto's stepfather. But I think the striking differences between
them and their upbringing is what kind of was the
catalyst for like, that's that idea that could break.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The life I say that. I also, yeah, I kind
of agree, Like I think his character was important in
like exploring his sexuality in a way that he felt
like exactly what you said that he felt like wasn't
the right, the quote unquote right way that his family
wanted him to be. And I just wish that they
allowed more time for us to see that. I felt
like that part was really rush. Like the diversity in
(26:07):
this series did actually feel a lot like ticking boxes
for me, Like a lot of this stuff felt very
rushed for me, like Johnny sexuality and the racism that
Gat was like claiming that Harris had. Like it felt
like like all these things like happen in like little
bits and pieces, and then it just like was just there, yeah,
and then nothing really happened after that. Like I mean
(26:29):
like it was obviously like meant to be a catalyst
for everything that unfolded towards the end of the movie.
But at the end of the day, like you come
back to the ending of like Summer eighteen, and it
just feels like, what was the purpose of like having
all of these like little things intersected into this one
show if we weren't able to explore that any further
(26:50):
with the characters who were like the catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's the very true fact.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, some parts of it did feel really underdeveloped, and
I guess in a way like pulls you through because
if this had just been more of a straightforward drama,
it might have really waned.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But because you have this threat of like what is
the mystery?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
What are we going to find out? Like you're almost
watching for that the whole.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I do wonder though, like if that was a point
that the showwriters wanted to make, because I have seen
and read a lot of analysis of the show versus
the book, and a lot of people said that you
didn't feel that hard of a connection with the characters
in the book because they were just awful, rich white people. Yeah, Whereas, like,
I think the show, by exploring like these intricacies within
(27:32):
their personalities, made you like like them a bit more,
which is why you had that big, huge feeling. That's
why I cried at the end, And I feel like
that wouldn't have happened if they actually didn't have that.
So I I don't know, I feel like I'm like
stuck in between now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
No, I mean, look, that's a normal reaction to have
to most shows. Confused confused? Was it good or bad?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
What did you think of the storyline threat that was
kind of pulling us towards the ending and the idea
that the grandmother dies. Yes, they all just kind of
then carry on with their summer holidays, which I guess
is what you do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
They clearly are so detached from emotion that they actually
don't know how to handle death.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, and I just don't talk about it.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
They dinner as normal, Ye, steal her pearls? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Or that was horrific watching.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I know siblings do that stuff, and I know that
grief and money brings out the worst in people, but truly,
the behavior of those three sisters fighting over wealth, completely
turning et each other, saying horrific things to each other,
I guess that's what you do when your livelihood is
on the line.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Because I think is they're all broke. I mean they're broke.
They're rich people broke.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, they're rich people broke. And what made me even
more angry is that two of them were broke, not
on their accord, like it was the shitty partners and
they had who like literally had zero this whole series,
which I love, But what I liked about it is
that the three sisters who were like, they're problematic, they
don't like each other, but still sisters until their mom died,
(28:58):
and they was so obvious that they just like hated
each other, like and I'm like, we have sisters, we
know that that's not how you act like they're a
certain way with your sisters, and that is just something
I've never seen before to the point where I'm like,
I feel like this is getting so obviously fake, Like
it felt like something that they would they were trying
to achieve a succession like sibling shit that I think
(29:21):
succession does really well in that like money phase, and
I think they just went too far.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah no, no, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Sometimes it felt like it flipped back and forth quite
a bit in terms of like this anger and hatred.
And I guess one of the things is that there
is is another book that Elockhart wrote called Family of Liars,
which tells the story of the three Sinclose sisters when
they're teenagers.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And the idea of this TV.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Show is that they took that book, which is a
prequel to the original book, and wove that in so
that you kind of have this idea that they did
some terrible things as teenagers and they have this now,
they have this hold over each other and they still
feel guilt over it. That coupled with the money, and
also coupled how their parents raised them to compete against
each other.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Especially saying stuff like well, they never told us I
loved you, so that they want.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Me this, Yes, a competition here, first Father's Day gift.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Who's the favorite daughter, and you did get a glimpse
of that when they talked about the Ford sister Rosemary,
Rosemary who died very young, and then.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Girl got out of there.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Girl was like tapping out.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I can't deal with these people. And then like.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Towards the end, I think it was actually the last
episode where I feel like they're alluding to a season
two because it made it sound like that they had
something to do with Rosemary's death, like is this calma
for what we did when we were younger?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, yeah, that last scene, I think a season two
is coming and it's going to be hooked into a premiers.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah. It would be good though, because those three women
are brilliant actors.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, they were so great. Love to see going
back and forth between that, so as we're sort of
building between like Katie where she is now with it
the dark hair and the blonde hair was a very
helpful plot.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Thank god. I would have been so confused in this
whole series because it does jump between summers, like between
from when they were really really little where they had
completely different actors. Easiest one like some between like summer
sixteen seventeen and eighteen more seventeen and eighteen where in
summer seventeen, that was the last summer where they were
(31:18):
all together, and that's where Katie something really tragic happened
to her. She was knocked unconscious, found on the water,
was in a coma, has all these really bad migraines,
can't remember a thing. And then some seventeen is her
coming back to the island to try to jog some
of her memory so she remember what happened. Luckily some
of eighteen. Her hair's black. Yeah, so we know when
the jump's happening.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Did you at any stage as we're getting up to
that big twist, did you, at any stage pick what
was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Or what did you think was happening.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
The whole series through, Because we were at a work event,
probably like a week before I started watching the series,
and I didn't even know Yeah, yeah, O great. It
was the summer returned pretty book who Yeah, yeah, And
we were with some of our colleagues and our friends,
and you guys were talking about we were liars.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, And I always taught a lot of people about that.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
That night, I was in that conversation, so they couldn't
talk about the plot. And I hate being that person
when you stop everyone from talking about it show that
you all want to talk about. And then I didn't
know it was a plot twisty show. So when you
guys are like, did you know the plot twist? Did
you pick it? Because I didn't pick it and no
one everyone else was like, yeah, we didn't pick it either.
Immediately I was like, oh, there's a plot twist. I'm
(32:27):
really good at guessing plot twists in any show. I
watched her. This is so easy. So I spent the
whole show because right at the first episode in the beginning,
you guys are know that Katie is in the water
and she gets pulled out of the water and someone's like,
she's here, we found her and she's in hospital. So
you know straight from the beginning that there's a big
accident and she survives, and like she's trying to find
out how the actually happens. And I spent the whole
(32:49):
series trying to work out who the killer was.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I was pushed her.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I was like gat and then that boat boy that
Mary was walking up with her, he was like, I
could kill your family for you, Miry, and.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I was like, I did he did do it? That's
so funny. I didn't pick it either.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I'm like you, I mean not to grandstand ourselves, but
we do this for a job, so I'm real good
at plicking a plot twist. I can't remember the last
time before now that I didn't see it coming. And
I think I didn't see this one coming because maybe
I was being a bit snooty and I didn't think
it was going to be like a very clever twist.
I thought I was just watching like a chashy teen romance.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I didn't think. I didn't know it was going to
be a.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Level above that level above us.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I didn't know the afterlife was evolved. I was like, oh, sorry,
I estimated you guys.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
So as we go on, Yeah, Katie gets back, and
then there's a sadness of like.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Why didn't you talk to me? Why didn't you visit me?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Things seem so strange to the island. Every time she
tries to like remember what had happened, she has a seizure.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
And her body just rejects it.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And so it's building, building, building, And then in the
coming into the final episode, we discover.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
The whole thing was fake. Everyone's dead.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Everyone's not dead, including the dog. Oh, my god, that
was so sad.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So when the okay, so, when the dog thing happened,
I thought that was the plot too.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
I'm not even a dog person, but I didn't want
it to burn today.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And then she's like the dogs died and they were
all crying and hugging her, and I was like, oh,
my god, that's.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
The worst outcome.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
That was a bat And then I was like, oh,
what a beautiful show. And then I look at the
time because I was like, wait, I'm really halfway through
the last episode.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
What do you mean there's gonna be more dogs? So yes,
when they decide to burn down the big family mansion,
which I knew such a just terrible idea.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Actually, when they were going through the plan of burning
down the mansion and they were like, Johnny, you take
the attic, Mirn, you take level one, I'll take the
ground floor. When the clock strikes twelve, we'll all light
a match and then run for hell. Immediately I was like, oh,
I wonder how they did that, because if Johnny's upstairs,
he has to come downstairs. They're all lighting at the
(35:02):
same time, the whole place will be on fires. So
I was literally like, that's crazy. How they did that.
I can't wait to say that. The little did I know,
they didn't get out of there, they didn't get it,
and they didn't have me on their team. I said
something even.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I would have been like, guys, I don't think we
should lay.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
How about let's do this, guys. Clock strikes twelve, Johnny.
You like the first match, run downstairs, Meet Miren, Miren,
You like the second match, run downstairs, Meet Katie, Katie,
last match, all run out together, Gat staying.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Seconds and don't leave the boat.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Do you stay on that boat? Gat, you change to
that boat.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And let's do a quick room check, room check before
we leave.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Katie, while we're lighting matches upstairs, just make sure you
let the dogs out. Yeah, because remember the dogs are
in there with anxiety medication. What's so bad?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
So again? And Katie just.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Letting you know. We don't need the pearls.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
The pearls say, they're all getting like Mirron's storing and
painting out.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
She's getting the pearls. The guys, this is not the
time to be collecting our belongings.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
If Maren's throwing her own paine out that her mother
mended while looking at a book on how to restore paintings.
You don't need those fucking pearls, girl.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
You get out of there.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, exactly. And also this whole thing, it was an accident.
It's not gonna fly. It was an accident, but we
managed to get a few things out. So they start
to burn the house down. Katie has that realization of
the dogs being in the house, which is awful.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, this is the part why I get confused. Okay,
hit me with it, because the first scene we see
her in the house, we see her hearing the dogs
going running back, I need to say the dogs. But
then the second time it happens where we see the
replay of the scene she runs back for the pearls.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Well, she went back to the pearls early, which means
she was very close to the house when she heard
the dogs.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Should have already been on the boat by that.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
So she sees the clock, sees the photo of the pearls, goes, oh,
let me go get the pearls. It comes back, and
then only when she's out for the second time, she's like,
hear the dogs. Yeah, and it's too late.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
And that's that's a really beautiful scene with those four
young actors. When they're helping Katie have that realization they're
playing scrabble. The writer said that was the hardest day
on set because I think maybe just the emotions hit
them or they were like thinking about dogs burning to death,
which is so sad.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And they also had to know that they aren't really
like they're not really there, that they've also died.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I mean thinking I knew that when they wrote
the script, but yeah, yeah no, But I.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Mean, like the characters they're playing are characters who know
they're dead, who are probably thinking that, Like Katie is
going to realize that they're dead, but she know she doesn't.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Well, the thing is they have to have this realization
the dogs first and let her sit in that grief
because that's awful.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, the writer.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Then she's probably like, anyway, yeah, let's go back to
the beach.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Let's get this hot romance keep going.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
The writers said that that was the day the actors
cried the most. They sobbed all day from the morning
they started till late at night. In between takes, it
just like hit them or they had they were trying
to stay in that space, so you're just like, that's
the very intent bitmash Okay, well sorry there, artistic creativity
is too much. She Emily is like, were you staying
character yuck? Hoday me too, yeah, okay, Daniel da lewis
(38:07):
over here, so we move from the thing is like
the dogs dyeing was not the worst thing. That moment
where Katie realizes that her two very best friends in
the world, her two cousins, perished in the fire so sadly.
Also that scene of when like you see each and
the fire start to engulf them.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
H literally struck my living room and I'm like, what
is happening? They're dead?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And then you see and then and then she realizes
that gat the love of her life, is also dead
and that they died all trying to save her, all
stuck because they couldn't do arson. And then you see
that thing and this is Emily Allen. Lynn's really great
in the scene where she's fall to the beach and
starts screaming.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And then like you see her fall to the beach
and they're not there around her, Yeah, because they were there,
but obviously they're going.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
This is when this twist worked really well, because I
hate a twist where the twist is ha ha, you
didn't see that coming as in like we just did something.
And also when you look back on it, you're like,
I mean, I hate she uses because this is barely
a twist. But like when you find it like Dan's
Gossip Girl to bring back to Gossip Girl, you're like,
that's not twist because you obviously just decided on the
last day that exactly, and when you go back through
(39:11):
the episodes, there's nothing to point towards that it's clearly
not true. Whereas this show, when you watch it back,
it's almost like the sixth sense, where you watch it
back and you're like, of course he's a ghost. Thing's
kind of ruined for people today if they haven't seen
them every plot.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Episode of just listing we have done that.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
We'll looking at that show.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
We've done an episode we talked about the biggest movie
plot to its sorrybout that. But he's like the sixth
sense where you you watch it through the first time
and if you saw one of the people lucky enough
to see it in cinemas, you're like, oh my god,
he was dead the whole time, and then you watch
it back and you're like, yeah, like the movie's telling
me the whole time. I just couldn't see it, and
I feel like we were liars had a very similar threat.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
They did it so perfectly because then I immediately went
back and watched, Oh did some clips of like the
clips I kept because I was like parts that I
remembered in my head because I just finished.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It the People show people went back and watched the
whole show away.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
There were so many things because like obviously the liars
in Summer seventeen interact with anyone else but Katie. Also,
Katie's mom is like kind of tells you what's happening. Yeah,
So Katie like she's like, why don't you tell me
the truth? And her mom's like, I have but every
time we do tell you the truth, you have a
seizure because you can't handle it. And the liars like
(40:26):
not calling her, like she had to get a phone
taken off her. Every time she looks at her phone,
she gets a seizure in the library when she went
to the library with quote unquote Gat allegedly wasn't there,
and she obviously read what happened in the fire and
had a seizure there, and then like dreamt the ice
cream on the mainland and it's just like these little
things where every time she even mentioned the liars to
(40:46):
her mom, her mom just looked so sad but wouldn't
say anything, Like where she was like why didn't they call?
And her mom was just like, my god, She's like.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Can't tell you this again. You know, there's so many
little things.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
And yeah, when you see that, like Katie's interacting the characters,
even when Miria's little sisters, like Katie tell us the
ghost story and she's like, ask mirror and they're just.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Like, haha, it's just dead. That's actually really neat of
you to say.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
And the fact that the liars all in those pale
clothes the whole time, the fact that they don't change
their clothing, the fact that they're never with the family.
They're always at these little spots, the three of them
together that the rest of the family is avoiding, even
when they do that big cliff jump when the neighbors
like I saw Katie up on the cliff and the
kids up on the cliff, but also when Katie falls
(41:27):
into the water when she jumps off the cliff, bubbles
come out of her mouth because she's breathing, and you
see in the cliff Johnny and gat jump in to
save her, and they pull out of.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
The water and nothing's coming out of their mouth.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Oh my god, So you're like dead because they're breathing
breathing or when they're floating out on the float of things.
And she tells Johnny to put sunscreen on and he's like, yeah,
I don't want to burn again because he was worried
he's going to go to hell.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Oh my god. Yeah, that was really sad, actually scared
of dying like that. It was really really sad.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
So yeah, what a freaking plot twist.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
What a plot twist. What was really interesting about the
ending ending where like she figures it all out and
she's having that kind of debrief with Harris, her grandfather,
and he's the only one who knows the truth about
and he's still that like old guy. Like we find
out that he's also like going through dementia. He's been
having brain scans and stuff, and he's starting to forget things.
(42:19):
And you see that he cares so so much about
the family, like and what they stand for and what
they look like to the world, that he's willing to
keep the secret that his granddaughter like could be potentially
charged with like involuntary manslaughter and animal cruelty. And it's
weird because that is something a grandfather would do for
(42:41):
their grandchild. But that's not the reason why he did it.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
He doesn't care if she gets any punishment, if he
doesn't see her. He cares aout preserving her family legacy,
which does make you think that he Something we do
kind of know is that he is also very aware
of all the other misdemeanors and horrible things his family
has done, whether he's forced them to or not, and
he's just keeping it all secret because all he cares about,
as you see when that reporter and the photographer there
and the final scene taking those photos, he only cares
(43:05):
what that photo looks like, not what's happening in the
photo with the family.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
And you can say that like after everything that's happened,
like finally, the sisters are like, let Katie do what
she needs to do. Like firstly, like Best and Carrie
are just like so happy that Katie's alive, and Penny
is just like has obviously been through this huge, huge
tough time, Like even that conversation she and Katie had
(43:29):
towards the end when Katie lets her know that she
now knows what has happened without having a seizure. Yeah,
and told her that I actually need help and she
was like, thank you for telling me that. I'm like,
she wouldn't have said that, Like, if this didn't happen,
like that is not how that type of mother quote
unquote would have responded to that situation.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah. Again, it's at the moment at the end where
the sisters hug each other as Katie drives off into
the sunset and Ed comes back.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, I loved him. I love that actor so much.
To get to that, but he's great everything I've seen
him in.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
It's so good zombie if you know, you know, but
he was so great and I love that when he
came back. But yeah, that that hug this and three
sisters have at the end despite everything I've done, does
feel very earned, especially because Carrie and Best have this
shared intense trauma over losing their children. That's why that's
that seen with them sitting on the dock talking about
are they being punished what they did in their past,
(44:19):
which is in the prequel book, or is this just
some kind of horrible fate. And then you also have
Penny stuck in the middle because her sisters have lost
their children, but also her daughter has gone through this
huge trauma and it is like broken, so they're.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
All in this grief.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
It's so interesting because there's a scene in the show
that almost foreshadows what's going to happen when they're baking
the pies. So they're baking the pies because their mother
always made the pies. Yeah, and their two pies burn
and Penny's pie is saved, but then water is thrown
on it and it's like smashed. But the water is
the thing because at the end, obviously Katie jumped into
(44:55):
the water and the other two and that's.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Another thing, like the kids didn't know like how she
got into water because they weren't there.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, they just kept saying, we don't know, and they
didn't know. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
What.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Well, otherwise, we've just hope you were that.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
We hope you watch six cents. We hope you got some.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, just all the big plot twists, all the big
plot twists and cinematic history. But yeah, we all lies
on prime video. What a great watch.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Eight episodes over fifty minutes each episode. Each one is
so so good.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, so brilliant.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Acting loved it really hoping they do that second things
and I'm gonna go read both books?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, which read a little book Club's good.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
We're about to spend a lot of time together.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Oh yeah, so we're about to go on the road
to the road together, so we can do that book club.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Oh so good. We've done heaps of Broadley Honest reviews,
so if you haven't listened or watched any of our
previous Bridleyans reviews, please do. They're one of our favorite
episodes to make. We'll put a link to a bunch
of them in our show notes. This bill is produced
by Minitius Wirn with some production by Scott Strounnik. Before
you go, we are cooking up something super exciting here
at Mumamea, and we need your brilliant opinions to help
(46:02):
us make even better content. There's a little survey in
our show notes. It only takes you twenty minutes, and
if you fill it out, you get a ten dollars
e gift card and one month Mom and Me a subscription.
Or if you're already a subscriber, you can gift it
to a friend. There's a link in our show notes.
Thank you so much for taking your time to do that.
Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back in
your podcast speed at three pm on Monday.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Bye bye, Na.
So you're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on Hi.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
It's Laura Brodneck here, host of our pop culture and
entertainment podcast The Spill, and this summer we're curating your
lowbrow playlist, bringing you our brutally honest reviews from the
top TV shows of the year, to the biggest movies
of twenty twenty five, and some of the classics that
shaped us. Every episode is giving you the Spills, completely
(00:39):
unfiltered and real takes. So your summer listening is sorted.
And if you're looking for more to listen to, every
Mamma Mea podcast is curating your summer listening right across
our network. From pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews,
there is something for everyone. Just follow the link in
our show notes.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
From Mamma Mia. Welcome to The Spill, your daily pop
culture fix. I'm m Vernon, I'm Laura brode and today
we have a very special, brutally honest review of We
Were Liars.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And also is that.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
The same song?
Speaker 3 (01:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
I think that was like some Scooby Doo thing.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
I just think, yeah, this is great trench of things.
Maybe yeah, just bring it all the different genres.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
All the psychological thrillers.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Now this is actually a world first on this spill
history is being made because we're about to break the
rules of a broodly honest review.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
And not only were breaking the rules, but I suggested it.
I know, and I never break the rules.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
No, and you set them as well. I don't know.
This is all you.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You set them, I enforced them. I'm super fun to
hang out with.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
That.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So the reason why breaking the rules is because we
usually do our brutally honest reviews. There's true different kinds, right,
so either it's a TV show or movie that's in
the zy guy so that everyone's talking about. We usually
wait a week before we do our Briodley Onnest review
just so everyone has time to watch it and digest it,
because we do do spoilers in this, so there will
be spoilers for if we were lies. If you haven't
(02:13):
watched it, make sure you watch it. Or we do
a Broodley on a t review on like a big
cult classic that's happened in the past. We recently did
one on Clueless.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Yes, that was our first time doing like a cult classic.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We'll put in our show notes for you to listen
to people.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You guys loved it, so more of those to come.
But yeah, we're like, what two months late on this one?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Two months late? Look, I do think I play a
part in this, because you had watched We Were Liars,
and you also mentioned it in our weekend watch.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Twice I'd recommend it a weekend watch it, and I
had to follow up like, sorry, everyone.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It's more dramatic than what we originally put out. Yeah,
but also that's part of the big surprise. Part of
the surprise. It's now been like five years since the
show's come out. But the thing is is that we
were getting messages after messages. Our dms are flooded with
people wanting a brutally on a review of Were Liars.
(03:10):
So I watched it very recently, much later after everyone else.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, you watched it this weekend. Do you know how?
Speaker 3 (03:16):
I know? Because I had told you to watch it,
and I didn't tell you anything about it, and you
were the only person in the world who hadn't seen
the spoilers because TikTok in particular was you couldn't scroll
through that platform without seeing the final scene, seeing people
reacting to it.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
W that's crazy. That's why I was so surprised so
many people, because it's like my algorithm just didn't see
the show.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
The rest of the world was watching because we were
all getting these crazy messages being like, do a brilliant,
honest review. So I was standing on the red carpet
the logis and then I looked. I had my phone
on my hands, I had notes, and I was filming,
and I looked out on my phone. There's a message
from Emily Vernon, and I thought, oh my god, I
hope everything's okay, because.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
We really text each other if something's gone wrong or
whatever at an event, and I can't find.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's so true, those two things.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
But no, Also, I knew that you knew I was
at the logis, and I was like, and she's busy
right now, So I thought, oh, she'd only text me
I it was an emergency.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I hope everything's okay. And I opened my phone and
there's just a photo.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Emily Vernon insaid, photo here, yeah, with red eyes, but
a single tear cascading down her perfect cheek and no text,
just a photo.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And I know, but I knew.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
I said, oh, you know what, this girl has just
watched the final episode of We Were Liars. Yes, so
big was your emotional reaction to it.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
This series had me in such a choke hold because
I had planned for my whole weekend to be watching it,
because I'm a committed when it comes to binge watching
TV shows. I love doing it in one go and
I was like, oh, there's eight episodes. Each episode's about
like over fifty minutes long. It's gonna take me three days.
And then the weekend got away from me. So I
was like, oh, no, I have to watch it on
(04:53):
like Sunday and Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday, and like
make sure I past it out. I watched that whole
thing from Sunday eight am, and I think I finished
at around four people.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah you do. Once you get into that world, you
just have to.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Go gosh, okay, So I want to set the scene
of the world that we're about to enter. When I
first sat down to watch it, immediately my mind went to,
this feels like a mix between the Perfect Couple and
Big Little Lies. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I no, No, that's a very very children yeah, very
very astute observation. Emily Vernon, Yes, because I guess it's
that kind of trope that we've been seeing for a
while at least in book to TV and film adaptations,
in terms of like being able to like look into
these very wealthy, very problematic families with secrets all set
(05:42):
across the backdrop of their like lush, beautiful vacation homes
or like their picturesque beach homes, and knowing that the
final episode was going to reveal some huge secrets. So
it's a formula we keep seeing, but one we haven't
tired of yet.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yes, So it is a book adaptation with the same
name by E. Lockhart. I hadn't actually read the book.
Have you read the book?
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Neither?
Speaker 3 (06:03):
And this is probably why TV like, oh my God,
which is so rare for me. Should I read the
book first? Just because I've read a lot of books
and usually it works.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
It also like really comes into our job, yeah, to
read it for a.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Lot, exactly it does.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
And also I just usually if I hear something's being adapted,
I'm like, oh, I want to read the book first,
because I strongly believe that you should come to a
story the way it was first intended. So I always
believe book, then TV show, movie, But in this case,
it's like all of a sudden it appeared in front
of us and I was like, I'm just gonna watch it,
which I think was great for the TV show because
I was hooked.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
But the book came out like was it twenty fourteen?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yea, And then it also that it had a big
resurgence in twenty twenty during COVID on book Talk, all
the girls who were looked at home found it.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, the great book to read in lockdown. Then they're like,
this is the book for us, and then it had
like the re imaging when the show came out, and
now it's doing another way, which you're so right. I
always every time this happens, I'm like, oh, let me
read the book first, especially like and we know like
a lot of Emily Henry books are getting read, I'm
getting made into TV shows and movies, so I'm reading
all of them now, and I'm almost glad I didn't
(07:09):
do it for this. Yeah, Like I don't think I
would have had the same reaction I did have if
I had read the book first. And also this TV
show hasn't made me not want to read the book,
like I want to read the book even more. I've
seen some tiktoks, but they said that the book is
slightly different to the TV.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, they have.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Well, I mean I think that's the best. You know,
way to do an adaptation is like, if you're going
to do a beat for beat remake, what's the point. Also,
e Lockhart, the author, was heavily involved in the show,
and she wrote.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
The last episode, so a lot of the.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Changes are coming from her mind, the woman who created
these characters, and then writing them in a different way
for screens, so she can almost tell it two different stories. Yes,
it was almost a movie. Nearly five times scripts nearly
got made. It went back to a different studio, back
and forth, Like do you think it would have worked
as a movie.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
If this might be an it would have been better
for your weekend plan.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It would have been better. I actually think it would
have worked for a meal.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think what we would have missed is like the
deep analysis that we get from each character. I do
think the TV show made it more character lead than
plot iron lead, which I really enjoyed because it's really
hard to do that. They wouldn't be able to do
that if it was a movie, it had to be
plot lad, But I think it still would have worked
in a way.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
I mean, yeah, look, I'm sure I would have watched it,
but I loved it more as a series. I feel
like you needed that to do justice to the book.
All right, So getting into the characters, because you're saying
it's a character led series. So we have Cadence and
Claire as our leading lady played by Emily Allan Lynde,
who if you watch the Gossip Girl reboot series, she
was the best part of it. I didn't even real
(08:44):
Audrey Yes with the bleach blonde hair, and she's the
one in the thropple, which was the best story. It
sends up being the best story. There's other great actresses
in that show, but she was the only one who
had God wow, really, I spent my.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Whole time watching this show going where is she from? Also,
wasn't like on like a Gossip Girl. I don't remember
seeing it on the IMDb because I looked at all
the IMDb's because I'm obsessed.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I was going to say, you were like, ohhre is
she from? And I was like, you know that, there's
a way to find that out.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Right, Yeah, and I didn't see gossip Girl on there.
But also I don't think gossip Girl really bit would
appear on a lot of.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I mean I liked to watched it. It was good.
Do you know who else? So there's a lot of
Nepo babies in this car.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Is a lot which is so perfect for the type
of characters.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
I'm playing Julie Plack, who is one of the creators
and showrunners this series, who also did the Vampire Diaries
and the Originals and Legacies, all that whole cinematic.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Universe, Like I don't having all of those on the
about Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
My god, kind of say that woman knows how to
make great TV because.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
A LOGI knows how to create a cult fan base.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Yes, yeah, I'm sure like chasing like critical acclaim, but
she's like she makes things for the fans.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, and also like our generation, like the show she's
making seems to be growing up with us. Yeah, she's
very smart.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
So she was one of the creators of this world
and kind of like bringing all these different characters together.
So we've got Emily Allen Lynn who's playing Cadence and yes,
a Neppo baby because did you didn't watch One Tree Hill.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
No, I knew there was something always you always, I know,
we talked about this multiple times.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
And yet and we still haven't watched it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
Literally, like we're living in now the resurgence of Chad
Michael Murray, you still have.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
True, that's true. If anything, that's why I should.
Speaker 3 (10:27):
Go anyway for anyone else who is a human being
with a soul and has watched One Tree Hill. Her
mother is the actress who plays Nathan Scott's mother Deb
Scott on One Tree Hill, and she's a really important
character like the One Tree Hill universe.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
So she's deep nepo.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, okay, well I mean not as deep as some
other people in the cast.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Like when you're like a Meryl Streep.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Yeah, when you're.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Working with Meryl Stream's daughter, it's like you fall down
the bay quite hard.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Like no, I'll know, no, no, No, she's great though,
Like I think her acting is brilliant. But yeah, she
plays Katie Candice Sinclair, Yes, part of the Big Sinclair.
What I like about this is that it's just so bizarre,
Like I feel like we're in that phase where we're
obsessed with watching rich people on TV, and this series
just takes it a step further where they're not just rich,
(11:13):
but they're like owning private island. Rich.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, a private island.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So it's this beautiful island that they own, and it's
got different homes and like estates on it, like and
they're each like most of them are like a full mansion.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Full mansion. It's off the coast of Massachusetts. And I mean,
I don't know any part of that part of the US, but.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
That you and I'll be going anytimes very well, I don't.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
They'll look they'll look at me and be like, you
can't afford you can look at it.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I can't even afford the ferry ride over time to
work on the fairy to come here as like a
handy man.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Well, you know how.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
Maths Vineyard is like the fancy spot where it's like
so expensive to go there, it's so expensive to own property.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
This is the step up from that.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Like if you go down the coast to where even
the Martha's Vineyard, people.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Are too poor to go.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
It's must be nice.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
It's not very often where I see a family where
I think, because usually you see a rich, problematic family,
but you're like, oh, i'd still kind of like to
live in that world.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I'd still love to.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Like have that wealth and be in that world and everything,
and even the family's awful. The Sinclair family are just
so terrible and just so like the deep unhappiness that
runs through them. It's one of the few times I've
seen a really rich family and thought absolutely not set
me away from those people.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Run Run Dad made me so so uncomfortable because the
family is kind of I guess alongside the island owned
by the patriarch of the family, Harris, who's the grandfather.
He has the biggest mansion on the island. As he does,
He's got three daughters who all have their other houses
on the island, some bigger than others.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
A big plotline is the renovations. Who's going to get
the next round of renovations. And they have kids who
are like all the same age who are known as
the Liars, yes, hence the title of the series. And
then they have like younger siblings who are known as
the Littles.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yes. So let's get into the three Sinclair daughters.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
So Cannice King plays best, which is the youngest daughter. Yeah,
And then we have Mammy Gumba who plays Carrie, who's
the Is she the oldest, she's the oldest.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
And then Caitlyn Fitzgerald plays Penny, who's like the second oldest,
and she's the mum to Canvas.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yes, Now, Mammy Gummer, who is Meryl Streep's eldest daughter
at home's Mary. And because there's a rule in Meryl
Streep's family that the oldest daughter of the oldest daughter
has to always be called Mary. So like Meryl Streep's
name is Mary, and her mum's name is Mary, and
her mum's name is Mary. And I love that even
when you're Meryl Street, when you're that famous, you still
(13:45):
don't get to pick your daughter's name.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
She's like I wasn't lled to.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
It's like a Gilmore girl.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
So they all called Mary, and then they all have her,
so they're not all called Mary to like real life.
They all have like a nickname.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Oh my god, one day one of them is going
to only have sons and then all ruin this whole thing. Yeah,
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I actually wonder who the next little Mary nickname out
of all their kids is. Yes, so she she's the eldest.
And then Caitlin Fitzgeral is an actress that I've always loved.
She was in Unreal, you know that TV show that
was like about behind the scenes of a reality TV show. Yeah,
she's the lead in the second season that She's done
so much stuff. I loved her and sweet Better. She's
always a really interesting actress. But Candace King, oh my god,
(14:24):
Julie Pleax obviously as Julie Peck from Vampire Diaries. Candace
King's character in The Vampire Diaries, Caroline Forbes, is one
of the big breakout stars of that series and of
that franchise and is still one of the most beloved
characters to this day. And she and Julie Pleck remained
very close, and there was quite a lot of backlash.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
I don't know if you saw this because you were
unaware of the show completely.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
And like the first time, there's a bit of backlash
when she was first cast because they were like, there's
no way this woman is old enough to play a
character with teenage daughters, and she is kind of on
the cuss she's like mid thirties. But Julie Pleck just
wanted her so much for this role, and she was
like once she's in the role, you will believe her
as this person, as this character, and I think you're
(15:08):
really she is so.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Good because I don't like her, which I know makes
her really really good. But I almost think they played
into her looking quite younger. Like that argument she had
with her daughter Miren in the Lighthouse I think was
the most like wonderful acting I've ever seen play out
between like a young mum and her daughter. It reminded
(15:31):
me so much of Gilmore Girls, actually, like just that struggle,
because you can see that there boats so unhappy, and
then the way she talks to her daughter is a
way that a mom should never talk to a daughter.
But you can tell that they're like on that brink
of like kind of like breaking up, but like obviously
you can't because it's your daughter. And you never really
see that get mended in the show it.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Is I do in movies and TV shows his mother
daughter bond being this beautiful, unbreakable thing, but theirs is
quite broken from the beginning, and you do get the
sense that even if like the horrific ending hadn't happened,
that it would never be quite kind of put back
together because she doesn't really have that realize best, like
you see later on where she was like, I was
so busy trying to make that my children be so
(16:14):
perfect that I forgot to love them, And having your
mother forget to love you is the most tragic thing
that could happen. But yeah, she's so good in this role.
And then we have the liars. So as we were
talking about yeah, Emily Allen Lynn playing Cadence, Julie Pleck
was saying that they did like a bit of an
open audition, So you know, sometimes they put a show
together and they have an actor and actress in mind
for a specific role, but for this one, it was
(16:34):
a bit of an open casting call and they received
thousands upon thousands of applications for each role.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, and I'm glad they did that because a lot
of the actors in this show, even though some of
them were in their bo babies, but a lot of
them was the first time I've seen them act and
the first time I've seen a performance of such a
fresh new cast, and I think it was executed so brilliantly.
I feel like I'm when a show that has such
a powerful plot twist and like plot line like this,
(17:03):
when you have like a too well known actor in
it. It really pulls away from the storyline and you're just
kind of like watching them the whole time and like
analyzing their character. And even though like it's obvious that
Katie is the lead of the show, it didn't distract
you from like diving deeper into all the other characters
and wanting to explore each one of them. But I
(17:24):
think that was done because of the great casting. So
Schuba Maheshwari, who's I'm pretty sure new to Hollywood, right.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
This is very first actor role.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
He plays Gas.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, Yeah, isn't that wild? He's so good.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
He is so good. I couldn't believe it because when
I looked at he was the only IMDb profile who
didn't have like a photo.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
No, so he was still at college, he'd never acted before.
He just sat in his audition tape and his headshot
that I think he took himself. And then he was
auditioning like from his college room, doing like the online
callback and he was sitting in class one day, never
acted before, never thought he would get this role, got
a call, stepped outside to take a call. Now, like
you've booked the role in this huge adaptation that hundreds
(18:04):
of actors in Hollywood are vying for So he did
a good job.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
And his character is so inchegril to.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
The Yeah, integral to the plotlind.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Integral, also extremely good looking.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
These guys are all of age. We should say, so
you say whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
We're allowed. We're allowed. No, he's both hot and very
smart and really good looking, and that's great values.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Yeah, he's what's also interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
I was reading it into Julie Pleck about how she
put the writer's room together for this show because obviously
e Lockhart was in there who wrote the books, but
they bring a whole team of writers in to write
these scripts, and she said it was really important to
her to make sure that they had writers of Indian
descent in the room to kind of protect the character
of Gatton, because so much about his family and his
life and the way he thinks differently to the other
(18:48):
liars is because of how he's been brought up is
such a big part of his character. So like, we
need to make sure that we have a diverse room
so it comes across on screen. And I know that
sounds like just of course, but it doesn't happen that often.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
It doesn't happen as often. And I think his character
and the values that, like the struggle he had within
himself of like what value use he felt like he
needed to have versus what he needed to share with others,
and how he was like so torn throughout the whole
series of like how he was brought up versus like
how he lives now was just so well executed. I
(19:23):
think he was such a great character. And also his
character development between the summers was done really really well. Okay.
We then have Essa McGregor who plays Miron, who was
my favorite character.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Really Okay, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
I was going to ask what you thought of her
as an act, So you and McGregor's daughter got her
one of her big breakout roles in way.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Is she yes? What do you mean that's not a secret.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I didn't know that. That's you and McGregor's daughter as
in Mulin Rouge. So proper nepo, Yeah, proper nepo.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
WHOA, she's like.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
My mom's been on one TV, so leave me alone.
No proper nepo. To the point I can kind of
see it now, you can see it, just picture her
face on Jedi's body. What a good looking family yeah,
what a good looking family. So yes, Esther McGregor got
one of her first big breakout roles in a little
movie that you and I saw together.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Called Baby Girl.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
She was the daughter.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
She was the daughter, Yeah, and I didn't like her
in that. Well, this is what I mean.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I'm there's some nipper babies where you look at them
and you're just like, yeah, that one would have been
famous anyway.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Let them through, that's fine.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
And there's some of them like because Nicole Kidman was
the one who was like, this is you and McGregor's
daughter who's in our movie, and isn't it nice? Because
her father and I acted together on Molan Rouge. I
always look in the background of those videos when Nicole
Kimman was doing that, at Esther's face and being like,
does she want this front and setter?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Is it better to just say it?
Speaker 3 (20:52):
There's even a clip where you and MacGregor's been interviewed
on a red carpet and now Cole Kimmen comes up
behind him and he's like, ah and like Moulan Rouge Reunion,
and she's like his daughter's in my movie.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
We get it, we get it.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
So everyone had to do an Audish.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, yeah, this one just slept on through. So yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
At first, when I watched her in the show, I'm like, oh,
I don't know if she's not as strong as the others,
But then she was so great towards the end. I
think maybe she just had a smaller character build from
the others.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
It wasn't that she wasn't good.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I really started to love her character towards the end
of like Summer sixteen going into Summer seventeen, where you
can really see herself torn of like what she wants
to do versus who she thinks she has to be,
and it's the fight with her mom, and then like
grappling with new love and like wanting to experience everything
(21:43):
that she feels like a teenage girl should experience but
might not want to experience for herself. And then also
just being the quote unquote other girl next to your
super hot cousins yright, which she was like made it
so obvious. She's like Katie gets all the boys, Like
everyone like loves her, like she's the eldest grandchild. She's
gonna like get in all the inheritance, Like everyone wants
(22:04):
Katie to be like the most successful one of us,
like no one even sees me, like I'm so invisible.
And I think it's such a perfect role to play
for young women who are watching the show, who are
in that headspace. Yeah, and I think she executed it
really really well, even like right at the end and
I know I'm jumping way way ahead, like past the plotline,
(22:25):
but when she kind of comes back to Katie and
she was like, I hope people saw me for who
I am. I thought that was really important because in
those moments, you feel like that everyone's just going to
be like the other side is great, it's all happy,
like I'm so glad the life I lived, and she
actually left with so many regrets. Yeah, and I thought
that was so well done.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, my god, it was so well done. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
That scene in the art gallery at the end where
it kind of pans to her and she's kind of
realizing that maybe some people did see although they're seeing
her now, is a really beautiful moment.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Also, she's very funny online. She saw all the.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Reactions to people like screaming and crying at the ending,
not you because you missed it, And she was like
put on this video where she was dancing and then
she was like, don't blame me, I didn't rite it.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Classic k classic okay. And then we had the other cousin,
Joseph Zada, who plays Johnny Sinclair. He was a bad boy.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
He was great, our resident bad boy.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
That scene where he does the rock and roll dance scene, oh,
which is yeah, the playoff the Tom Cruise movie, which
was completely improvised.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Why is that seen in every single movie? Because Risky Business.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Is so good, it's so iconic.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
It has that opening as soon as you do the
slide with the glasses and look around and hear that
beat like I know exactly.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
White shirt high sucks slide on the floorboards. Yeah, and
then something great. Even people who.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Haven't seen Risky Business, like, it's such a that you.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
No, I've seen okay business. I haven't seen it in
a long time.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
But Eve, people who haven't seen that movie know that scene.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
But it's so funny because they said they just put
the cameras on him and said go and let him
do it, so that whole thing is improvised.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
He probably did that and was like, I've seen my
dad do this. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Also, again, that was really interesting introduction of him as
a character because as the show was coming out, it
was confirmed that he had been cast in like the
role that every young actor in Hollywood was chasing, which
is in the new Hunger Games movie Sunrise on the Reaping.
So everyone was like, this is that Hay Mitch, this
guy who's dancing around.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
The Oh my god. I just know because I feel
like this role was kind of like his starter and
now everyone's obsessed with this TV show. But I know
that in the new Hunger Games movie everyone's just gonna
be obsessed with Yes, oh my god. Okay with Johnny,
well say it, just say it's the same space unnecessary character.
(24:37):
What yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Why?
Speaker 2 (24:39):
Like I think his sole purpose was to be another
child for the other sister, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (24:48):
No, but I think you need because Mirron and Johnny
kind of show the different ways that the Sinclair family
had affected the family outside of Cadence, who were kind
of seeing the story through her eyes. So you're seeing
Mirrorn shrink back into herself and like let her huge, wealthy,
crazy family overtake her. But then you have Johnny who
is swept up in this like fantasy world, and then
(25:08):
you also see him the fact that he is like
starting to identify his gad is looking up with a
guy trying to hide that from his family because he
knows at the end of the day that like there's
a way that Sinclair people live, and that whole plot
point of his mum using all their money to like
fix some mistake that he made. And also I think
he needed to show that it's the differences between him
and Gat and the way they grew up, the fact
(25:29):
that they were so close, they were best friends, they
hung out all the time outside of their trips to
the island because of the Gat's uncle was his pretty
much Defecto's stepfather. But I think the striking differences between
them and their upbringing is what kind of was the
catalyst for like, that's that idea that could break.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
The life I say that. I also, yeah, I kind
of agree, Like I think his character was important in
like exploring his sexuality in a way that he felt
like exactly what you said that he felt like wasn't
the right, the quote unquote right way that his family
wanted him to be. And I just wish that they
allowed more time for us to see that. I felt
like that part was really rush. Like the diversity in
(26:07):
this series did actually feel a lot like ticking boxes
for me, Like a lot of this stuff felt very
rushed for me, like Johnny sexuality and the racism that
Gat was like claiming that Harris had. Like it felt
like like all these things like happen in like little
bits and pieces, and then it just like was just there, yeah,
and then nothing really happened after that. Like I mean
(26:29):
like it was obviously like meant to be a catalyst
for everything that unfolded towards the end of the movie.
But at the end of the day, like you come
back to the ending of like Summer eighteen, and it
just feels like, what was the purpose of like having
all of these like little things intersected into this one
show if we weren't able to explore that any further
(26:50):
with the characters who were like the catalyst for that.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, yeah, no, no, that's the very true fact.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, some parts of it did feel really underdeveloped, and
I guess in a way like pulls you through because
if this had just been more of a straightforward drama,
it might have really waned.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
But because you have this threat of like what is
the mystery?
Speaker 3 (27:05):
What are we going to find out? Like you're almost
watching for that the whole.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
I do wonder though, like if that was a point
that the showwriters wanted to make, because I have seen
and read a lot of analysis of the show versus
the book, and a lot of people said that you
didn't feel that hard of a connection with the characters
in the book because they were just awful, rich white people. Yeah, Whereas, like,
I think the show, by exploring like these intricacies within
(27:32):
their personalities, made you like like them a bit more,
which is why you had that big, huge feeling. That's
why I cried at the end, And I feel like
that wouldn't have happened if they actually didn't have that.
So I I don't know, I feel like I'm like
stuck in between now. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
No, I mean, look, that's a normal reaction to have
to most shows. Confused confused? Was it good or bad?
Speaker 3 (27:52):
What did you think of the storyline threat that was
kind of pulling us towards the ending and the idea
that the grandmother dies. Yes, they all just kind of
then carry on with their summer holidays, which I guess
is what you do. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
They clearly are so detached from emotion that they actually
don't know how to handle death.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, and I just don't talk about it.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
They dinner as normal, Ye, steal her pearls? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Or that was horrific watching.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
I know siblings do that stuff, and I know that
grief and money brings out the worst in people, but truly,
the behavior of those three sisters fighting over wealth, completely
turning et each other, saying horrific things to each other,
I guess that's what you do when your livelihood is
on the line.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Because I think is they're all broke. I mean they're broke.
They're rich people broke.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, they're rich people broke. And what made me even
more angry is that two of them were broke, not
on their accord, like it was the shitty partners and
they had who like literally had zero this whole series,
which I love, But what I liked about it is
that the three sisters who were like, they're problematic, they
don't like each other, but still sisters until their mom died,
(28:58):
and they was so obvious that they just like hated
each other, like and I'm like, we have sisters, we
know that that's not how you act like they're a
certain way with your sisters, and that is just something
I've never seen before to the point where I'm like,
I feel like this is getting so obviously fake, Like
it felt like something that they would they were trying
to achieve a succession like sibling shit that I think
(29:21):
succession does really well in that like money phase, and
I think they just went too far.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah no, no, yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Sometimes it felt like it flipped back and forth quite
a bit in terms of like this anger and hatred.
And I guess one of the things is that there
is is another book that Elockhart wrote called Family of Liars,
which tells the story of the three Sinclose sisters when
they're teenagers.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
And the idea of this TV.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
Show is that they took that book, which is a
prequel to the original book, and wove that in so
that you kind of have this idea that they did
some terrible things as teenagers and they have this now,
they have this hold over each other and they still
feel guilt over it. That coupled with the money, and
also coupled how their parents raised them to compete against
each other.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Especially saying stuff like well, they never told us I
loved you, so that they want.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Me this, Yes, a competition here, first Father's Day gift.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Who's the favorite daughter, and you did get a glimpse
of that when they talked about the Ford sister Rosemary,
Rosemary who died very young, and then.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Girl got out of there.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Girl was like tapping out.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
I can't deal with these people. And then like.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Towards the end, I think it was actually the last
episode where I feel like they're alluding to a season
two because it made it sound like that they had
something to do with Rosemary's death, like is this calma
for what we did when we were younger?
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Yeah, yeah, that last scene, I think a season two
is coming and it's going to be hooked into a premiers.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah. It would be good though, because those three women
are brilliant actors.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, yeah, they were so great. Love to see going
back and forth between that, so as we're sort of
building between like Katie where she is now with it
the dark hair and the blonde hair was a very
helpful plot.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Thank god. I would have been so confused in this
whole series because it does jump between summers, like between
from when they were really really little where they had
completely different actors. Easiest one like some between like summer
sixteen seventeen and eighteen more seventeen and eighteen where in
summer seventeen, that was the last summer where they were
(31:18):
all together, and that's where Katie something really tragic happened
to her. She was knocked unconscious, found on the water,
was in a coma, has all these really bad migraines,
can't remember a thing. And then some seventeen is her
coming back to the island to try to jog some
of her memory so she remember what happened. Luckily some
of eighteen. Her hair's black. Yeah, so we know when
the jump's happening.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Did you at any stage as we're getting up to
that big twist, did you, at any stage pick what
was going to happen.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Or what did you think was happening.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
The whole series through, Because we were at a work event,
probably like a week before I started watching the series,
and I didn't even know Yeah, yeah, O great. It
was the summer returned pretty book who Yeah, yeah, And
we were with some of our colleagues and our friends,
and you guys were talking about we were liars.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Yeah, And I always taught a lot of people about that.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
That night, I was in that conversation, so they couldn't
talk about the plot. And I hate being that person
when you stop everyone from talking about it show that
you all want to talk about. And then I didn't
know it was a plot twisty show. So when you
guys are like, did you know the plot twist? Did
you pick it? Because I didn't pick it and no
one everyone else was like, yeah, we didn't pick it either.
Immediately I was like, oh, there's a plot twist. I'm
(32:27):
really good at guessing plot twists in any show. I
watched her. This is so easy. So I spent the
whole show because right at the first episode in the beginning,
you guys are know that Katie is in the water
and she gets pulled out of the water and someone's like,
she's here, we found her and she's in hospital. So
you know straight from the beginning that there's a big
accident and she survives, and like she's trying to find
out how the actually happens. And I spent the whole
(32:49):
series trying to work out who the killer was.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I was pushed her.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I was like gat and then that boat boy that
Mary was walking up with her, he was like, I
could kill your family for you, Miry, and.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
I was like, I did he did do it? That's
so funny. I didn't pick it either.
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I'm like you, I mean not to grandstand ourselves, but
we do this for a job, so I'm real good
at plicking a plot twist. I can't remember the last
time before now that I didn't see it coming. And
I think I didn't see this one coming because maybe
I was being a bit snooty and I didn't think
it was going to be like a very clever twist.
I thought I was just watching like a chashy teen romance.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I didn't think. I didn't know it was going to
be a.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Level above that level above us.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I didn't know the afterlife was evolved. I was like, oh, sorry,
I estimated you guys.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
So as we go on, Yeah, Katie gets back, and
then there's a sadness of like.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Why didn't you talk to me? Why didn't you visit me?
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Things seem so strange to the island. Every time she
tries to like remember what had happened, she has a seizure.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
And her body just rejects it.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And so it's building, building, building, And then in the
coming into the final episode, we discover.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
The whole thing was fake. Everyone's dead.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Everyone's not dead, including the dog. Oh, my god, that
was so sad.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
So when the okay, so, when the dog thing happened,
I thought that was the plot too.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
I'm not even a dog person, but I didn't want
it to burn today.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
And then she's like the dogs died and they were
all crying and hugging her, and I was like, oh,
my god, that's.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
The worst outcome.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
That was a bat And then I was like, oh,
what a beautiful show. And then I look at the
time because I was like, wait, I'm really halfway through
the last episode.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
What do you mean there's gonna be more dogs? So yes,
when they decide to burn down the big family mansion,
which I knew such a just terrible idea.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Actually, when they were going through the plan of burning
down the mansion and they were like, Johnny, you take
the attic, Mirn, you take level one, I'll take the
ground floor. When the clock strikes twelve, we'll all light
a match and then run for hell. Immediately I was like, oh,
I wonder how they did that, because if Johnny's upstairs,
he has to come downstairs. They're all lighting at the
(35:02):
same time, the whole place will be on fires. So
I was literally like, that's crazy. How they did that.
I can't wait to say that. The little did I know,
they didn't get out of there, they didn't get it,
and they didn't have me on their team. I said
something even.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
I would have been like, guys, I don't think we
should lay.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
How about let's do this, guys. Clock strikes twelve, Johnny.
You like the first match, run downstairs, Meet Miren, Miren,
You like the second match, run downstairs, Meet Katie, Katie,
last match, all run out together, Gat staying.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Seconds and don't leave the boat.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Do you stay on that boat? Gat, you change to
that boat.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And let's do a quick room check, room check before
we leave.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Katie, while we're lighting matches upstairs, just make sure you
let the dogs out. Yeah, because remember the dogs are
in there with anxiety medication. What's so bad?
Speaker 1 (35:54):
So again? And Katie just.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Letting you know. We don't need the pearls.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
The pearls say, they're all getting like Mirron's storing and
painting out.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
She's getting the pearls. The guys, this is not the
time to be collecting our belongings.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
If Maren's throwing her own paine out that her mother
mended while looking at a book on how to restore paintings.
You don't need those fucking pearls, girl.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
You get out of there.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
Yeah, exactly. And also this whole thing, it was an accident.
It's not gonna fly. It was an accident, but we
managed to get a few things out. So they start
to burn the house down. Katie has that realization of
the dogs being in the house, which is awful.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, this is the part why I get confused. Okay,
hit me with it, because the first scene we see
her in the house, we see her hearing the dogs
going running back, I need to say the dogs. But
then the second time it happens where we see the
replay of the scene she runs back for the pearls.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
Well, she went back to the pearls early, which means
she was very close to the house when she heard
the dogs.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Should have already been on the boat by that.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
So she sees the clock, sees the photo of the pearls, goes, oh,
let me go get the pearls. It comes back, and
then only when she's out for the second time, she's like,
hear the dogs. Yeah, and it's too late.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
And that's that's a really beautiful scene with those four
young actors. When they're helping Katie have that realization they're
playing scrabble. The writer said that was the hardest day
on set because I think maybe just the emotions hit
them or they were like thinking about dogs burning to death,
which is so sad.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
And they also had to know that they aren't really
like they're not really there, that they've also died.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Yeah, I mean thinking I knew that when they wrote
the script, but yeah, yeah no, But I.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Mean, like the characters they're playing are characters who know
they're dead, who are probably thinking that, Like Katie is
going to realize that they're dead, but she know she doesn't.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Well, the thing is they have to have this realization
the dogs first and let her sit in that grief
because that's awful.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, the writer.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Then she's probably like, anyway, yeah, let's go back to
the beach.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Let's get this hot romance keep going.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
The writers said that that was the day the actors
cried the most. They sobbed all day from the morning
they started till late at night. In between takes, it
just like hit them or they had they were trying
to stay in that space, so you're just like, that's
the very intent bitmash Okay, well sorry there, artistic creativity
is too much. She Emily is like, were you staying
character yuck? Hoday me too, yeah, okay, Daniel da lewis
(38:07):
over here, so we move from the thing is like
the dogs dyeing was not the worst thing. That moment
where Katie realizes that her two very best friends in
the world, her two cousins, perished in the fire so sadly.
Also that scene of when like you see each and
the fire start to engulf them.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
H literally struck my living room and I'm like, what
is happening? They're dead?
Speaker 3 (38:29):
And then you see and then and then she realizes
that gat the love of her life, is also dead
and that they died all trying to save her, all
stuck because they couldn't do arson. And then you see
that thing and this is Emily Allen. Lynn's really great
in the scene where she's fall to the beach and
starts screaming.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
And then like you see her fall to the beach
and they're not there around her, Yeah, because they were there,
but obviously they're going.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
This is when this twist worked really well, because I
hate a twist where the twist is ha ha, you
didn't see that coming as in like we just did something.
And also when you look back on it, you're like,
I mean, I hate she uses because this is barely
a twist. But like when you find it like Dan's
Gossip Girl to bring back to Gossip Girl, you're like,
that's not twist because you obviously just decided on the
last day that exactly, and when you go back through
(39:11):
the episodes, there's nothing to point towards that it's clearly
not true. Whereas this show, when you watch it back,
it's almost like the sixth sense, where you watch it
back and you're like, of course he's a ghost. Thing's
kind of ruined for people today if they haven't seen
them every plot.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Episode of just listing we have done that.
Speaker 2 (39:32):
We'll looking at that show.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
We've done an episode we talked about the biggest movie
plot to its sorrybout that. But he's like the sixth
sense where you you watch it through the first time
and if you saw one of the people lucky enough
to see it in cinemas, you're like, oh my god,
he was dead the whole time, and then you watch
it back and you're like, yeah, like the movie's telling
me the whole time. I just couldn't see it, and
I feel like we were liars had a very similar threat.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
They did it so perfectly because then I immediately went
back and watched, Oh did some clips of like the
clips I kept because I was like parts that I
remembered in my head because I just finished.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
It the People show people went back and watched the
whole show away.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
There were so many things because like obviously the liars
in Summer seventeen interact with anyone else but Katie. Also,
Katie's mom is like kind of tells you what's happening. Yeah,
So Katie like she's like, why don't you tell me
the truth? And her mom's like, I have but every
time we do tell you the truth, you have a
seizure because you can't handle it. And the liars like
(40:26):
not calling her, like she had to get a phone
taken off her. Every time she looks at her phone,
she gets a seizure in the library when she went
to the library with quote unquote Gat allegedly wasn't there,
and she obviously read what happened in the fire and
had a seizure there, and then like dreamt the ice
cream on the mainland and it's just like these little
things where every time she even mentioned the liars to
(40:46):
her mom, her mom just looked so sad but wouldn't
say anything, Like where she was like why didn't they call?
And her mom was just like, my god, She's like.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Can't tell you this again. You know, there's so many
little things.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
And yeah, when you see that, like Katie's interacting the characters,
even when Miria's little sisters, like Katie tell us the
ghost story and she's like, ask mirror and they're just.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Like, haha, it's just dead. That's actually really neat of
you to say.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
And the fact that the liars all in those pale
clothes the whole time, the fact that they don't change
their clothing, the fact that they're never with the family.
They're always at these little spots, the three of them
together that the rest of the family is avoiding, even
when they do that big cliff jump when the neighbors
like I saw Katie up on the cliff and the
kids up on the cliff, but also when Katie falls
(41:27):
into the water when she jumps off the cliff, bubbles
come out of her mouth because she's breathing, and you
see in the cliff Johnny and gat jump in to
save her, and they pull out of.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
The water and nothing's coming out of their mouth.
Speaker 3 (41:37):
Oh my god, So you're like dead because they're breathing
breathing or when they're floating out on the float of things.
And she tells Johnny to put sunscreen on and he's like, yeah,
I don't want to burn again because he was worried
he's going to go to hell.
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Oh my god. Yeah, that was really sad, actually scared
of dying like that. It was really really sad.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
So yeah, what a freaking plot twist.
Speaker 2 (41:57):
What a plot twist. What was really interesting about the
ending ending where like she figures it all out and
she's having that kind of debrief with Harris, her grandfather,
and he's the only one who knows the truth about
and he's still that like old guy. Like we find
out that he's also like going through dementia. He's been
having brain scans and stuff, and he's starting to forget things.
(42:19):
And you see that he cares so so much about
the family, like and what they stand for and what
they look like to the world, that he's willing to
keep the secret that his granddaughter like could be potentially
charged with like involuntary manslaughter and animal cruelty. And it's
weird because that is something a grandfather would do for
(42:41):
their grandchild. But that's not the reason why he did it.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
He doesn't care if she gets any punishment, if he
doesn't see her. He cares aout preserving her family legacy,
which does make you think that he Something we do
kind of know is that he is also very aware
of all the other misdemeanors and horrible things his family
has done, whether he's forced them to or not, and
he's just keeping it all secret because all he cares about,
as you see when that reporter and the photographer there
and the final scene taking those photos, he only cares
(43:05):
what that photo looks like, not what's happening in the
photo with the family.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
And you can say that like after everything that's happened,
like finally, the sisters are like, let Katie do what
she needs to do. Like firstly, like Best and Carrie
are just like so happy that Katie's alive, and Penny
is just like has obviously been through this huge, huge
tough time, Like even that conversation she and Katie had
(43:29):
towards the end when Katie lets her know that she
now knows what has happened without having a seizure. Yeah,
and told her that I actually need help and she
was like, thank you for telling me that. I'm like,
she wouldn't have said that, Like, if this didn't happen,
like that is not how that type of mother quote
unquote would have responded to that situation.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Yeah. Again, it's at the moment at the end where
the sisters hug each other as Katie drives off into
the sunset and Ed comes back.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
Yeah, I loved him. I love that actor so much.
To get to that, but he's great everything I've seen
him in.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
It's so good zombie if you know, you know, but
he was so great and I love that when he
came back. But yeah, that that hug this and three
sisters have at the end despite everything I've done, does
feel very earned, especially because Carrie and Best have this
shared intense trauma over losing their children. That's why that's
that seen with them sitting on the dock talking about
are they being punished what they did in their past,
(44:19):
which is in the prequel book, or is this just
some kind of horrible fate. And then you also have
Penny stuck in the middle because her sisters have lost
their children, but also her daughter has gone through this
huge trauma and it is like broken, so they're.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
All in this grief.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
It's so interesting because there's a scene in the show
that almost foreshadows what's going to happen when they're baking
the pies. So they're baking the pies because their mother
always made the pies. Yeah, and their two pies burn
and Penny's pie is saved, but then water is thrown
on it and it's like smashed. But the water is
the thing because at the end, obviously Katie jumped into
(44:55):
the water and the other two and that's.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Another thing, like the kids didn't know like how she
got into water because they weren't there.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, they just kept saying, we don't know, and they
didn't know. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
What.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Well, otherwise, we've just hope you were that.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
We hope you watch six cents. We hope you got some.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Yeah, just all the big plot twists, all the big
plot twists and cinematic history. But yeah, we all lies
on prime video. What a great watch.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Eight episodes over fifty minutes each episode. Each one is
so so good.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, so brilliant.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Acting loved it really hoping they do that second things
and I'm gonna go read both books?
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Yeah, which read a little book Club's good.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
We're about to spend a lot of time together.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
Oh yeah, so we're about to go on the road
to the road together, so we can do that book club.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
Oh so good. We've done heaps of Broadley Honest reviews,
so if you haven't listened or watched any of our
previous Bridleyans reviews, please do. They're one of our favorite
episodes to make. We'll put a link to a bunch
of them in our show notes. This bill is produced
by Minitius Wirn with some production by Scott Strounnik. Before
you go, we are cooking up something super exciting here
at Mumamea, and we need your brilliant opinions to help
(46:02):
us make even better content. There's a little survey in
our show notes. It only takes you twenty minutes, and
if you fill it out, you get a ten dollars
e gift card and one month Mom and Me a subscription.
Or if you're already a subscriber, you can gift it
to a friend. There's a link in our show notes.
Thank you so much for taking your time to do that.
Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back in
your podcast speed at three pm on Monday.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Bye bye, Na.
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