June 9, 2024 • 33 mins
To Ryan, his sister Brittney seemed normal; sure, she was moody and didn't have that many friends as a teenager, but he never imagined what he would find about her or what she would do that would rip their family apart.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche production.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thought'll be right. That's the sound of our doorbell at
our studios in Brisbane, Australia. It's where we got to
sit down and meet Ryan Whitwell Dwyer for the first time.
It's a Saturday morning and Ryan has flown back to
Brisbane to spend the weekend with me recording his story.
(00:32):
It wasn't the first time we'd met. We'd had a
few calls and I'd also travel with Sydney to meet up.
When you're sitting down with someone about to tell you
the sort of story Ryan's got, there's a level of
trust and comfort that you need to build first telling
you who you are.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So I'm right, and I live in Sydney and director
of events for a luxury hotel in Sydney, which is
very cool, a lot of fun. I'm thirty two, thirty
two in August, I should say should age myself. Mum
lives on the Gold Coast. Dad also lives on the
Gast no longer together. I'm single and loving it. And
(01:10):
obviously we know where my sister is.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
If the title of the podcast hasn't already given it away,
Ryan's sister, Britney Dwyer, is a murderer. She's currently in jail,
and so was the person that helped her with the killing.
Britney rang the doorbell of her grandfather's house in Adelaide
back in May of twenty sixteen, and he led her in.
(01:36):
She stayed for breakfast, looked at family photos, and then
on her way out to the front door, she took
a knife that she had had hidden in her sleeve
and stabbed her own grandfather to death.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It was my dad, my daughter killed you today. The
Whitwell family, including the killer's mother Tanya, banded together to
see Britney Dwyer jailed for life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Very very difficult and really smeshed yourself.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
The murder was brutal, callous, cold blooded and dispassionately planned.
Could she just be pure, cold, hard evil?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Hi? My name is Ryan and my sister murdered my grandfather.
What are the signs that I missed? Family life was good?
You know growing up, my dad worked incredibly hard. My
mum was a stayed home mum looked after us. You know,
(02:38):
Breakfast was ready at seven am every single day, you know,
it was it was a normal family unit. You know.
My parents were pretty strict, tried to always keep us
on the straight and narrow when you right from wrong.
And it was really sort of instilled in us that
we need to be something in this world in order
to you know, give back to the community as well
(02:59):
as to be successful. And I think because we didn't
have a lot of money growing up, I think it
was really important that was instilled in us from a
very early age.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Who are we talking about when we say us, my
sister and I that was the family unit. Mum and dad.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, Mum and dad and Brittany and I. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
We grew up in bin Lee in which is sort
of in between the Gold Coast and Brisbane. Not the
best part of Queensland, that's for sure. Growing up we
were actually renting a house in Mountwarren Park, little three
bedroom place, one bathroom, was very small, big backyard though.
We went to public school, so I went to Mount
(03:38):
Warren Park State School and then moved through to a
Window Primary. My sister was the same, She went to
Windrew Primary the whole way through. There's about a five
years difference between her and I. So when I was
sort of leaving primary school, she was still very early
days in primary school and when I was leaving high school.
(03:58):
She had only just entered into high school.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
We like big brother for her big brother.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, okay, I wouldn't say we were overly close when
we were younger. I think again that five year age gap.
We were always in two different parts of our life,
but you know, still very much looked out for each other,
still hung out a lot, you know, did all the
siblingly things. Obviously, the little sister is always annoying, so
(04:27):
push her away when you can. But certainly when we
when I got into high school, and I think, you know,
I was starting to learn to drive, and I think
that opened our world up a little bit more. I
was the cool older brother with the car. So yeah,
but she went to a private school. The best times
that I can remember was, you know, from from my
(04:48):
childhood as well. You know, I remember we had a
My parents had a great close knit group of friends too,
and I would often say that, you know, my mum's
best friend is like my second mother. It was very
just like a normal living experience. The only I guess
bad thing was that my grandfather lived in South Australia
(05:09):
and so that was quite a quite a distance flight
to wen't cheap back then. Yeah, and a little irregular.
And yes, so we didn't really get to travel all
that much.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Ryan and Britney's grandfather was called Robert Whitwell. He seemed
like a nice old man from the photos that I've seen,
gray hair, slight build, and a big smile. Reminds me
a little bit of my own pop. I can tell you,
if you're leading to conclusions about why Britney stabbed her
grandfather to death, maybe he was holding a secret of
some sort. That's an assumption that's completely incorrect.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
It's insidious that a man who's been murdered should have
his reputation besmirched in that manner. He said, mister Whitwell
wasn't here to defend himself, and that the claims were
simply an invention.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
The reason for Britney stabbing her granddad were much simpler.
Robert had always lived in Adelaide. It was Ryan's mum,
who is Robert's daughter, who wanted to taste of the
big smoke, so she left her home of Adelaide and
moved up to the Gold Coast. But Ryan and Britney's
(06:17):
granddad always stayed close to the grandkids.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I do remember one particular holiday though, that my mom
and my dad actually hired a car and we drove
to South Australia from Queensland, which is a long drive.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's like a twenty three twenty four hour drive Australia and.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
If you're doing it Australia, and I think they did,
I think they just swapped drivers. Were there within like
a day, a full twenty four hour period. But as
I got older, I loved flying down there. I would
actually save up money and fly down in school holidays myself,
and it's been all school holidays there.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And so when your granddad passed, his fourth wife was living.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
With him or not, no, not at the time. She
unfortunately suffered from dementia, so she lived in a home nearby.
She was falling over and whatnot, and she was he
couldn't pick her up anymore when she would fall over,
and it just got a bit difficult. So he moved
her into the closest home to his home that he could,
and every day, like clockwork, he went and visited terr
(07:19):
at three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
What was the relationship like with your grandparents in the
whole family? And I guess what I'm looking for here
is the relationship between you, Brittany and your grandparents and
in particularly your granddad, what was that relationship?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Like, honestly great. My grandfather was that type of person
that you could always call. You know, you might get
a lecture about something, but you know, he would always
be there to support you. He would do anything for
his grandkids. He was a very proud family man. He
loved the idea of lineage and that you knew where
(07:51):
your family came from and you know, would drive down
Adelaide for example, or you know, we're flown he'd pick
me up from the airport and before we go home,
we'd go down every street that any family member lived
on and you'd get the full history lesson. I can
go back probably four or five generations past before him.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
So yeah, he was a really proud man. There's actually
one particular one I remember. I mean, my sister probably
wouldn't remember, but she was on the a baby at
the time. But we were all at the house in
matt Warren Park and they had flown up and they
were doing like this big holiday and they were staying
with us for a while. And I think they were
up because my mother had just given birth to Brittany,
(08:32):
and I just remember very clearly that she was like
in her bassinet and we were just all one big
family unit. And I think it was the first time
that I come to grips that, like, I have a sister,
And I think that was a really nice moment. And
I actually think it's on camera somewhere too. Funny.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
One of those family moments is in a few of
the photos that Ryan sent me of some happier times.
It's a picture of the family sitting in the house
in Adelaide on an old fabric couch. There's a knitted
quilt on the table and Ryan sitting on his and
his knee with his granddad close by. His pop is
wearing thick rim glasses and holding a video camera which
(09:12):
looks like it's brand new, and Ryan looks like he's
about four years old. It's a year or so later
that his sister, Brittany is born. Let's talk about Brittany
for a minute. What was she like at school.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Through primary school? I would say pretty pretty normal, tomboyish,
love sport, you know, very energetic, very mouthy, very mouthy.
She she wasn't afraid to let you know what she thought.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
You used to fight a lot before your dad got
home from work. You know, between three and five pms.
You both used to just fight and argue and bicker
and pick on each other, and that you're striving up
there every day.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Because we were about five years apart, we were in
such different stages about life all the time. You know,
I was always that older brother, but not like I
look at other friends that have, you know, one or
two years apart, and they all seem to be a
little bit closer. But I was. You know, I was
already in high school and she was in primary school,
(10:20):
and I think, you know, different music tastes and just
even different maturity. So we did get on each other's
nerves a lot in the earlier stage, I do, I
do remember that. And then as we grew older, we
became quite close. You know.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
She loved hanging out with you.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, which was nice, Like we're able to drive
around the city and go get dinner and you know,
go to shows and stuff because you know, as an
adult you've sort of got the means to do that.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
You were so different. She was pretty sporty, you know,
riding a scooter, riding a bike, where you didn't like
any of that, you know, you didn't want to play
footy or cricket or anything like that, and she was
the sporty one. So the interests were very different, weren't they.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
That other voice you hear is Ryan and Britney's mum, Tanya.
It's all still a bit raw for Tanya, so with
her permission, we were able to record a chat with
her and Ryan for use in the podcast. In future episodes,
we'll have a deeper chat with Tanya, but for now,
it's important to get the background of what the family
was like when it was all a little bit more normal.
(11:28):
It was different. When Brittany was in primary school, Ryan
told me that she had a strong friend group.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
She had a lot of friends and particularly really good
with people of need as well. Okay, so I remember
she used to hang around with this guy. His name
was Sam and he was disabled and they became great friends,
so very very nurturing, and I think was really good
with you know, bullying situations where you know, they might
(11:56):
pick on him and you know, she stood up for him.
And yeah, she had quite a large group. But then
as she sort of moved into like that year seven
time frame, she started to shift a little bit, she
would start bullying a little bit, and she seemed really down,
and then we sort of figured out that she was
self harmy.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Was she bullying others or others bullying her bullying her?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
At the beginning, we didn't really know a great deal
at the time yet started to really get picked on,
and back then schools were pretty blacks with it all,
so we weren't really getting fed any information, but we
since found out it was you know, it was quite bad.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
What sort of things would they What have you found
out about that bullying at the time, Well.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
At the time, because she was a real tomboy, I
think she was getting sort of picked on about potentially being,
you know, a lesbian. I think year five, year six.
As your body starts to change, she became a bit bigger.
People would obviously pick on her about her weight, and
just because she she was sort of obsessed with looking
(13:03):
a bit rough and tumble as well at the time,
so you know, she chopped a full hair, to my
mum's dismay, and so I think people started really picking
on her. She looked a bit boyish.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
It probably started with Sam. You know that the fact
that she was sticking up to the bullies for him,
and then she sort of found oh, all that works,
so you know, you can't pick on me because I'd
just use that same defense. And then she did turn
into the bully later on in the high school year.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
When did the worry start to kick in for you?
Speaker 5 (13:40):
I don't know if I really did worry about her
so much. She she was so secretive. She wouldn't tell
me anything, even though we were pretty close. You know,
when we lived out at Jim Boomber, I used to
take a week off work every holiday, so I was
home with her in the holidays. We could go out
(14:02):
and do things together with down at Adelaide, So we
were pretty close. But she just wouldn't tell me anything.
And I didn't really think anything was wrong. She only
had a couple of close friends in high school that
she would talk to me about.
Speaker 6 (14:21):
To call teenage moodiness, right, yeah, I thought exactly.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
And I thought the way I was with my dad
when I was growing up, I didn't tell him anything,
and you know, I didn't ask him anything, just assume
that she would be the same. And you know, I
really didn't push the fact. I thought she would talk
to me if she ever had to, But even with her,
(14:47):
you know, being gay or bye or whatever she was,
she would never actually say it. And I would say
to her, well, we know Ryan's gay. Ryan come out
and told me that he's gay, excepted that why can't
you tell me if you were? Because I don't know
could she tell? And she still wouldn't very secretly.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
She always was like in high school, definitely, I think
the bullying sort of switched. She sort of became the bully.
And with that, you know, there was self harming and whatnot.
But yeah, then the email stage certainly kicked in.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
How did you find out about the self harm or
your parents find out?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Actually I found out first again when she was in
high school. I was already out of high school. So
she would stay over my house a lot. I lived
in Karendale in Brisbane, so not that far away, and
she would should come over and should stay the weekend,
would go and do things, and I just remember I
was in the lounde room and she was wearing these
denim shorts and her shorts sort of slipped up further
(15:52):
above the knee, and I just remember catching what looked
like to me like a spiderweb, that makes sense. It
was just this entanglement of one hundreds of slices all
over her left leg, and I just immediately went, what
is that? And she just yanked her pants like down
(16:16):
to cover it and just would not talk about it.
She's like, oh, I fell over. I said, that is
not falling over, and she just would not go into
it at all, to the point that you know, I
probably pressed a little bit too hard, but you know,
she burst into tears and I said, I need to
know what's going on. And at that point our relationship
was really quite close. Again that five year gap. I
(16:38):
think really when I had left high school, created more
like of an adult bond, you know, I had the
means to turk her out for you know, dinners and
would go around the city and all of that sort
of stuff. So I think we became I became less
cool brother and more adulty. And I think as soon
as I talked to her about that, leg just closed up,
(17:00):
would not talk about it. And then I obviously told
my parents about it.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Have they react.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Mum was shocked. I think she knew that potentially there
was self harming in the past. There was a situation
actually where and I slipped walked as a child so
I sort of put it down to that. But one
day I was sort of I was in our shower
and my sister and I shared a bathroom, and I
(17:28):
noticed that there was my razor shoved down the drain
of the shower, and I sort of pulled it out,
and I thought, that's really odd. What is that doing
down there. I sort of put it down to I
was doing really weird things in my sleep, So maybe
that's just something that I did. And I look back
(17:49):
at that now, and my mum and I have spoken
about this that I think that was there very much
for a purpose, and yeah, I think it was happening
long before we knew.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
In the court sentencing of Brittany and her co accused
back in twenty seventeen, the judge also made remarks of
Britney's past. Britney was convicted of murder at the age
of twenty. She committed that murder the murder of her
granddad at nineteen. We've used an AI voice to read
(18:28):
part of the summary of the judge's comment.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Having suffered from a conduct disorder since your childhood, involving
behavioral disturbance, aggression and violence beginning in primary school and
continuing throughout your teenage years.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
When Ryan was a kid, their parents didn't have much money,
but as the family business started taking off, things got
a little more flush. Britney was moved from a public
school to a private school, and it's about this time
that things start going downhill.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Withdrawing very moody. How did that show up agression? It was,
It's sort of hard to pinpoint exactly, but just very
withdrawn from the family and friends. Didn't really seem to
have many friends at that time, you know, we, like
(19:21):
I said earlier, we knew a lot of her friends.
We knew their names. You know, they'd go to parties,
your birthday party is that sort of thing, and then
it all just sort of stopped and we'd maybe hear
one person's name or barely get a conversation out of her.
She's very close to my dad though, but just kept
to herself. Clothes changed, really got into Lady Gaga funny enough,
(19:48):
I think she really loved the whole your Different message,
that whole little Monster's thing that Lady Gaga calls them,
and really started to get quite obsessed with that.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
This is the manifesto little Monster.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
When they're young, little monsters learn.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
That they are scary, ugly, stupid, uned by cupid.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Oh boyd.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
But every monster needs to.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Find that secret de Brownside, the transform doctor Jack gone
into second.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You said she was she was close to your dad.
How did that show up and what did that look like?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
They would do a lot together, fishing, you know, rough howls,
make jokes, watch some sort of shows, you know, just
generally hang out.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Did she have a partner of boyfriend girlfriend. You talked
earlier that she was being bullied for possibly liking the
same sex her sexuality at that point? Was that a question?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
No, Actually, it really wasn't. Going through primary school and
high school, you know, she really took an interest into guys.
She would talk about how guys were attractive, and you know,
river boys from home and away and that sort of thing.
So no, it never really came into question until when
(21:26):
she left high school. And then you know, we knew
about Shelby, and then that was sort of advancing. But
it was never really spoken about, not because we didn't
want to talk about it, because she never really wanted
to bring it up.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
When did she leave school?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
She finished at twelve?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Okay, did you ever talk to her about her dreams
and aspirations of what she wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Definitely, I think my sister was not very ambitious. My sister,
you know, I always sort of was very driven. I
just sort of knew what I wanted to do. And
I think that was a very big part of my
parents as well. You know, it was all about, you know,
you've got to make something of yourself in this world.
And I think that really comes down to us having
(22:08):
a better life than what they had. I guess I
was very driven. I knew exactly what I wanted and
sort of how to get it. Where she didn't. She
didn't really have any drive. She didn't really know what
she wanted to do. Actually, at one stage she wanted
to become a cop and sort of go down that path,
but that didn't sort of suffice. And so when I
(22:30):
started noticing her being a little bit different after high school,
and you know, she was hanging out with Shelby a lot,
she actually had a fight with my parents and just
moved out and moved in with Shelby's parents. And I
just thought that was really strange. And because of the
lack of drive, she still didn't really have a job.
(22:50):
I told her she needs to move in with me.
And then I really started to press about what are
you doing now?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Like did she move in with you?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
She did?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
She did?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
She did?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
How long did you two live together?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
For? Not a great deal. It did not work. She
lived there, I'd probably say just under a month. She
could not get the grasp of paying rent. You know,
I was only charging her fifty dollars a week. It
was minimal. We didn't really need the money. But it
was about teaching her I guess how the world works,
and you know, responsibility, and that included all her food
(23:25):
or everything. You know. She would not show up for days,
which whatever, that's just what she wanted to do. But
then go, oh, well, I'm not going to pay for
like three days I wasn't here. That's not really how
it works. And that was essentially the downfall. And I
would press her a lot, like are you going to
go to tafe? Now? Are you going to go in st?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Did she have a job or anything?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
No, she was telling us that she worked for I
think it was Domino's. But I never saw a uniform.
I never. I never, you know, sort of should go
to work at weird times to what I would think
a pizza shop would be open for It's.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Hard to believe that your sister is a murder. It's
the things Ryan learned about her becoming that murderer that's shocking.
The event started when Brittany was at school. It's not
something that Ryan or his mum would ever think would happen,
but there were signs as Brittany was growing up. One
of those signs was her love the macab TV show
(24:25):
called American Horror Story.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And again touching back onto the Lady Gaga thing. She
was in a season on American Horror Story and I
think that's where that started.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
OA.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Oh she's on this show. I'm going to watch it.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I tell you, if you weren't dead already, you disgust me.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
You're still upset about the Dago you screwed up to me.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
You robbed me of the thing I love the most,
And now I never want to see her pathetic, miserable
face ever again.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yes, the fascination started to really come.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Was there a particular song that she was listening to
from Gaga?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
They're Born This Way? Okay, and Judas loved that one
as well. That was something that we did together as well.
Every time Leader go I came into it. You know,
I would buy as tickets and we would we'd go.
You know, she's a great performer. I'm happy to go
and see her too. But it was that was a
bit of a bonding thing. But yeah, it was was
truly obsessed with that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What about drugs? Obviously we know what we know now
post coort, Yeah, but at the time, trying to take
your mind back, did you think drugs played a part?
Speaker 5 (25:30):
Like?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
No, way they were. And you know, I really, even
even today, I struggle so much to wrap my head
around all the drugs and what she was doing. And
because she hit it so well, you know, I look
at I look back at that time and even now,
I'm going, I couldn't see a thing. I couldn't see
(25:53):
a thing to do the drugs.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Did she drink?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Not really in front of me, not really, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
So if you went out, she wouldn't like be loose.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And nope, nope, never. And this is what's so shocking.
You know, we had her eighteenth at my parents' house
on their property and it was very tame. I guess
an indication of where she was at in life as well,
is like she had no friends that turned up to
that eighteenth It's really sad. Yeah, really sad. It was
(26:23):
just all family friends and at the time we didn't
really realize, you know. And then even on that night,
Mom sort of pressed, like where were your friends? So
you know, I don't know, they might come later, you know,
all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, just downplaying it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Downplayed it a lot.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Yeah, she'd only has one or two good friends or
you know, friends that she would let mom and dad meet.
Maybe that was the whole ring. And that was Shelby.
Remember at her eighteenth birthday and two girls turned up
at the end of the.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
Night, Like, really, at the end of the night, party
is over. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah, but I didn't even know who they were. I've
never met them before.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
I remember you saying to her, you know, where's everyone crying?
And do you remember what she would say? Oh?
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Yeah, she had different excuses like, oh, they're on their way,
or they'll be here later, or they're just happened dinner first.
And you know, we had the pig on the spit,
we had all that alcohol and the sloshy machines and
all that go. I'm thinking there was going to be
a lot of people. Yeah, I think those two girls
(27:39):
turned up at the end of the night. People were
already leaving to go home, and it was just family
and friends. You know that would come for us as
a family, but we all dressed up, you know, it
was come as your favorite musician, and she was dressed
up as Lady Gaga.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Of course.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
Of course.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
Yeah, none of her friends turned up. That was Yeah,
that should have told us a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Then Brittany did have some friends. One of those friends
is in jail now as well. She was an accessory
to the murder of Robert Whitwell. We'll talk about Bernadette
Burns later. She had one other friend who wasn't connected
with the murder of Britney's granddad, but did travel to
Adelaide with Brittany months before her granddad was killed. Her
(28:24):
name is Shelby Holmes. Your sister was living out of
home at eighteen. She was living with Shelby. How do
you reckon they became friends.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I think because they were both a bit of an
outcast at school, it sort of naturally gravitated that way.
Shelby seemed quite sweet as well, and I think that
was a nice balance for my sister, and probably you
(28:53):
know that attracted her to her as well.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
When you mean sweet, talk to me about what you
mean by that.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
She had this sense of you know, I guess in
my own words, sense of innocence, like naivity. I guess,
just very airy fairy, just sort of liked and yeah, bubbly,
I guess, and just she just was a sweet girl.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
She didn't really talk much, so when when she was
over mine, she didn't. But she used to go and
have dinner with my parents all the time, Shelby. So yeah,
that's how I would probably describe her.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Were they just friends or more than friends?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
We always thought it was more. Brittany had told me
there was, you know, relationship sort of stuff there. It
was all it was always sort of when it came out,
it was all denied from Shelby's perspective.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Was there anything that seemed i'll use the word weird
but unusual about their friendship or their relationship.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
That they were just always together, that would be the
only unusual thing from an earlier stage. But I guess
when I used to pick them up from nightclubs and stuff,
I found out that they would go to a lot
of strip shows together. You know, it's sort of male
(30:17):
strip shows no female love and rockets in particular in
the Valley, but I think it since came out in
letters that you know, I think they were in there
for different reasons other than just to enjoy a show.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It would seem that Brittany and Shelby were very close
at the time Brittany moved out of her home, she
lived with Ryan for a bit, but then she also
moved in with Shelby and her parents. In Quarters revealed
there were over nineteen thousand text messages sent between Shelby
and your sister a two year period. Do you have
(31:00):
any knowledge of any of those text messages and what
they might have said.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, you know, especially on the on the later part,
you know, the communication between them was strange, really dark,
you know, and the things that they would like to
get up to and text about, and what sort of stuff,
oh like talking about like cutting people's throats and blood
(31:29):
and you know, going to rave parties, which you know
doesn't sound so odd, but in the context of everything else,
you know, cruising through like setting up to cruise through
cemeteries and stuff, which I get, you know, seems spooky
and that sort of thing that it became a constant thing.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
More macrb than spooky. Yeah, yeah, And this was part
of their general conversation. Was it jokey or was it?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I mean, from an outsider looking in and when you
read those messages, doesn't seem very jokey to me. But
I guess you can't pick up tone in texts.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Your Poppa said hi to me, he's lovely.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Don't get attached to him.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
He might have to die.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I don't think it was joky. From my sister's perspective.
I think it was probably a little bit more on
the serious side. And I think Shelby knows that deep down.
But I think it was certainly played off that it
was all meant to be a joke.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
In the next episode of My Sister the Murderer.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
He was wealthy, do you know. It's funny because of
the type of guy he is. You know, he got
around in a Kia and then he might upgrade to
like as a zuki billino, and you know, he certainly
was not flashy. We didn't know at the time how
wealthy actually was. It was one of those houses that,
(33:02):
again modest, but very charming. You know, it had great
street appeal. You drive up the lawn was always manicured.
You had those big, you know trees that you can sculpt, and.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Do you know what was in that bag?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, like bolt cutters and tape and a knife, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
A hammer, tin snips and cable tires. Seems fairly clear
what they were going to do. Do you know if
they had their mobile phones with them when they where
they did? Okay? Yeah, So on the thirtieth of April
twenty sixteen, they leave Brisbane and they drove to Adelaide
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Just before Mother's Day,
Appoche production.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Thought'll be right. That's the sound of our doorbell at
our studios in Brisbane, Australia. It's where we got to
sit down and meet Ryan Whitwell Dwyer for the first time.
It's a Saturday morning and Ryan has flown back to
Brisbane to spend the weekend with me recording his story.
(00:32):
It wasn't the first time we'd met. We'd had a
few calls and I'd also travel with Sydney to meet up.
When you're sitting down with someone about to tell you
the sort of story Ryan's got, there's a level of
trust and comfort that you need to build first telling
you who you are.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
So I'm right, and I live in Sydney and director
of events for a luxury hotel in Sydney, which is
very cool, a lot of fun. I'm thirty two, thirty
two in August, I should say should age myself. Mum
lives on the Gold Coast. Dad also lives on the
Gast no longer together. I'm single and loving it. And
(01:10):
obviously we know where my sister is.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
If the title of the podcast hasn't already given it away,
Ryan's sister, Britney Dwyer, is a murderer. She's currently in jail,
and so was the person that helped her with the killing.
Britney rang the doorbell of her grandfather's house in Adelaide
back in May of twenty sixteen, and he led her in.
(01:36):
She stayed for breakfast, looked at family photos, and then
on her way out to the front door, she took
a knife that she had had hidden in her sleeve
and stabbed her own grandfather to death.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It was my dad, my daughter killed you today. The
Whitwell family, including the killer's mother Tanya, banded together to
see Britney Dwyer jailed for life.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Very very difficult and really smeshed yourself.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
The murder was brutal, callous, cold blooded and dispassionately planned.
Could she just be pure, cold, hard evil?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Hi? My name is Ryan and my sister murdered my grandfather.
What are the signs that I missed? Family life was good?
You know growing up, my dad worked incredibly hard. My
mum was a stayed home mum looked after us. You know,
(02:38):
Breakfast was ready at seven am every single day, you know,
it was it was a normal family unit. You know.
My parents were pretty strict, tried to always keep us
on the straight and narrow when you right from wrong.
And it was really sort of instilled in us that
we need to be something in this world in order
to you know, give back to the community as well
(02:59):
as to be successful. And I think because we didn't
have a lot of money growing up, I think it
was really important that was instilled in us from a
very early age.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Who are we talking about when we say us, my
sister and I that was the family unit. Mum and dad.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Yeah, Mum and dad and Brittany and I. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
We grew up in bin Lee in which is sort
of in between the Gold Coast and Brisbane. Not the
best part of Queensland, that's for sure. Growing up we
were actually renting a house in Mountwarren Park, little three
bedroom place, one bathroom, was very small, big backyard though.
We went to public school, so I went to Mount
(03:38):
Warren Park State School and then moved through to a
Window Primary. My sister was the same, She went to
Windrew Primary the whole way through. There's about a five
years difference between her and I. So when I was
sort of leaving primary school, she was still very early
days in primary school and when I was leaving high school.
(03:58):
She had only just entered into high school.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
We like big brother for her big brother.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Yeah, okay, I wouldn't say we were overly close when
we were younger. I think again that five year age gap.
We were always in two different parts of our life,
but you know, still very much looked out for each other,
still hung out a lot, you know, did all the
siblingly things. Obviously, the little sister is always annoying, so
(04:27):
push her away when you can. But certainly when we
when I got into high school, and I think, you know,
I was starting to learn to drive, and I think
that opened our world up a little bit more. I
was the cool older brother with the car. So yeah,
but she went to a private school. The best times
that I can remember was, you know, from from my
(04:48):
childhood as well. You know, I remember we had a
My parents had a great close knit group of friends too,
and I would often say that, you know, my mum's
best friend is like my second mother. It was very
just like a normal living experience. The only I guess
bad thing was that my grandfather lived in South Australia
(05:09):
and so that was quite a quite a distance flight
to wen't cheap back then. Yeah, and a little irregular.
And yes, so we didn't really get to travel all
that much.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Ryan and Britney's grandfather was called Robert Whitwell. He seemed
like a nice old man from the photos that I've seen,
gray hair, slight build, and a big smile. Reminds me
a little bit of my own pop. I can tell you,
if you're leading to conclusions about why Britney stabbed her
grandfather to death, maybe he was holding a secret of
some sort. That's an assumption that's completely incorrect.
Speaker 4 (05:44):
It's insidious that a man who's been murdered should have
his reputation besmirched in that manner. He said, mister Whitwell
wasn't here to defend himself, and that the claims were
simply an invention.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
The reason for Britney stabbing her granddad were much simpler.
Robert had always lived in Adelaide. It was Ryan's mum,
who is Robert's daughter, who wanted to taste of the
big smoke, so she left her home of Adelaide and
moved up to the Gold Coast. But Ryan and Britney's
(06:17):
granddad always stayed close to the grandkids.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
I do remember one particular holiday though, that my mom
and my dad actually hired a car and we drove
to South Australia from Queensland, which is a long drive.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's like a twenty three twenty four hour drive Australia and.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
If you're doing it Australia, and I think they did,
I think they just swapped drivers. Were there within like
a day, a full twenty four hour period. But as
I got older, I loved flying down there. I would
actually save up money and fly down in school holidays myself,
and it's been all school holidays there.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
And so when your granddad passed, his fourth wife was living.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
With him or not, no, not at the time. She
unfortunately suffered from dementia, so she lived in a home nearby.
She was falling over and whatnot, and she was he
couldn't pick her up anymore when she would fall over,
and it just got a bit difficult. So he moved
her into the closest home to his home that he could,
and every day, like clockwork, he went and visited terr
(07:19):
at three o'clock.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
What was the relationship like with your grandparents in the
whole family? And I guess what I'm looking for here
is the relationship between you, Brittany and your grandparents and
in particularly your granddad, what was that relationship?
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Like, honestly great. My grandfather was that type of person
that you could always call. You know, you might get
a lecture about something, but you know, he would always
be there to support you. He would do anything for
his grandkids. He was a very proud family man. He
loved the idea of lineage and that you knew where
(07:51):
your family came from and you know, would drive down
Adelaide for example, or you know, we're flown he'd pick
me up from the airport and before we go home,
we'd go down every street that any family member lived
on and you'd get the full history lesson. I can
go back probably four or five generations past before him.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
So yeah, he was a really proud man. There's actually
one particular one I remember. I mean, my sister probably
wouldn't remember, but she was on the a baby at
the time. But we were all at the house in
matt Warren Park and they had flown up and they
were doing like this big holiday and they were staying
with us for a while. And I think they were
up because my mother had just given birth to Brittany,
(08:32):
and I just remember very clearly that she was like
in her bassinet and we were just all one big
family unit. And I think it was the first time
that I come to grips that, like, I have a sister,
And I think that was a really nice moment. And
I actually think it's on camera somewhere too. Funny.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
One of those family moments is in a few of
the photos that Ryan sent me of some happier times.
It's a picture of the family sitting in the house
in Adelaide on an old fabric couch. There's a knitted
quilt on the table and Ryan sitting on his and
his knee with his granddad close by. His pop is
wearing thick rim glasses and holding a video camera which
(09:12):
looks like it's brand new, and Ryan looks like he's
about four years old. It's a year or so later
that his sister, Brittany is born. Let's talk about Brittany
for a minute. What was she like at school.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
Through primary school? I would say pretty pretty normal, tomboyish,
love sport, you know, very energetic, very mouthy, very mouthy.
She she wasn't afraid to let you know what she thought.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
You used to fight a lot before your dad got
home from work. You know, between three and five pms.
You both used to just fight and argue and bicker
and pick on each other, and that you're striving up
there every day.
Speaker 6 (10:00):
Because we were about five years apart, we were in
such different stages about life all the time. You know,
I was always that older brother, but not like I
look at other friends that have, you know, one or
two years apart, and they all seem to be a
little bit closer. But I was. You know, I was
already in high school and she was in primary school,
(10:20):
and I think, you know, different music tastes and just
even different maturity. So we did get on each other's
nerves a lot in the earlier stage, I do, I
do remember that. And then as we grew older, we
became quite close. You know.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
She loved hanging out with you.
Speaker 6 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah, which was nice, Like we're able to drive
around the city and go get dinner and you know,
go to shows and stuff because you know, as an
adult you've sort of got the means to do that.
Speaker 5 (10:50):
You were so different. She was pretty sporty, you know,
riding a scooter, riding a bike, where you didn't like
any of that, you know, you didn't want to play
footy or cricket or anything like that, and she was
the sporty one. So the interests were very different, weren't they.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
That other voice you hear is Ryan and Britney's mum, Tanya.
It's all still a bit raw for Tanya, so with
her permission, we were able to record a chat with
her and Ryan for use in the podcast. In future episodes,
we'll have a deeper chat with Tanya, but for now,
it's important to get the background of what the family
was like when it was all a little bit more normal.
(11:28):
It was different. When Brittany was in primary school, Ryan
told me that she had a strong friend group.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
She had a lot of friends and particularly really good
with people of need as well. Okay, so I remember
she used to hang around with this guy. His name
was Sam and he was disabled and they became great friends,
so very very nurturing, and I think was really good
with you know, bullying situations where you know, they might
(11:56):
pick on him and you know, she stood up for him.
And yeah, she had quite a large group. But then
as she sort of moved into like that year seven
time frame, she started to shift a little bit, she
would start bullying a little bit, and she seemed really down,
and then we sort of figured out that she was
self harmy.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Was she bullying others or others bullying her bullying her?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
At the beginning, we didn't really know a great deal
at the time yet started to really get picked on,
and back then schools were pretty blacks with it all,
so we weren't really getting fed any information, but we
since found out it was you know, it was quite bad.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
What sort of things would they What have you found
out about that bullying at the time, Well.
Speaker 3 (12:42):
At the time, because she was a real tomboy, I
think she was getting sort of picked on about potentially being,
you know, a lesbian. I think year five, year six.
As your body starts to change, she became a bit bigger.
People would obviously pick on her about her weight, and
just because she she was sort of obsessed with looking
(13:03):
a bit rough and tumble as well at the time,
so you know, she chopped a full hair, to my
mum's dismay, and so I think people started really picking
on her. She looked a bit boyish.
Speaker 5 (13:15):
It probably started with Sam. You know that the fact
that she was sticking up to the bullies for him,
and then she sort of found oh, all that works,
so you know, you can't pick on me because I'd
just use that same defense. And then she did turn
into the bully later on in the high school year.
Speaker 6 (13:37):
When did the worry start to kick in for you?
Speaker 5 (13:40):
I don't know if I really did worry about her
so much. She she was so secretive. She wouldn't tell
me anything, even though we were pretty close. You know,
when we lived out at Jim Boomber, I used to
take a week off work every holiday, so I was
home with her in the holidays. We could go out
(14:02):
and do things together with down at Adelaide, So we
were pretty close. But she just wouldn't tell me anything.
And I didn't really think anything was wrong. She only
had a couple of close friends in high school that
she would talk to me about.
Speaker 6 (14:21):
To call teenage moodiness, right, yeah, I thought exactly.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
And I thought the way I was with my dad
when I was growing up, I didn't tell him anything,
and you know, I didn't ask him anything, just assume
that she would be the same. And you know, I
really didn't push the fact. I thought she would talk
to me if she ever had to, But even with her,
(14:47):
you know, being gay or bye or whatever she was,
she would never actually say it. And I would say
to her, well, we know Ryan's gay. Ryan come out
and told me that he's gay, excepted that why can't
you tell me if you were? Because I don't know
could she tell? And she still wouldn't very secretly.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
She always was like in high school, definitely, I think
the bullying sort of switched. She sort of became the bully.
And with that, you know, there was self harming and whatnot.
But yeah, then the email stage certainly kicked in.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
How did you find out about the self harm or
your parents find out?
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Actually I found out first again when she was in
high school. I was already out of high school. So
she would stay over my house a lot. I lived
in Karendale in Brisbane, so not that far away, and
she would should come over and should stay the weekend,
would go and do things, and I just remember I
was in the lounde room and she was wearing these
denim shorts and her shorts sort of slipped up further
(15:52):
above the knee, and I just remember catching what looked
like to me like a spiderweb, that makes sense. It
was just this entanglement of one hundreds of slices all
over her left leg, and I just immediately went, what
is that? And she just yanked her pants like down
(16:16):
to cover it and just would not talk about it.
She's like, oh, I fell over. I said, that is
not falling over, and she just would not go into
it at all, to the point that you know, I
probably pressed a little bit too hard, but you know,
she burst into tears and I said, I need to
know what's going on. And at that point our relationship
was really quite close. Again that five year gap. I
(16:38):
think really when I had left high school, created more
like of an adult bond, you know, I had the
means to turk her out for you know, dinners and
would go around the city and all of that sort
of stuff. So I think we became I became less
cool brother and more adulty. And I think as soon
as I talked to her about that, leg just closed up,
(17:00):
would not talk about it. And then I obviously told
my parents about it.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Have they react.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Mum was shocked. I think she knew that potentially there
was self harming in the past. There was a situation
actually where and I slipped walked as a child so
I sort of put it down to that. But one
day I was sort of I was in our shower
and my sister and I shared a bathroom, and I
(17:28):
noticed that there was my razor shoved down the drain
of the shower, and I sort of pulled it out,
and I thought, that's really odd. What is that doing
down there. I sort of put it down to I
was doing really weird things in my sleep, So maybe
that's just something that I did. And I look back
(17:49):
at that now, and my mum and I have spoken
about this that I think that was there very much
for a purpose, and yeah, I think it was happening
long before we knew.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
In the court sentencing of Brittany and her co accused
back in twenty seventeen, the judge also made remarks of
Britney's past. Britney was convicted of murder at the age
of twenty. She committed that murder the murder of her
granddad at nineteen. We've used an AI voice to read
(18:28):
part of the summary of the judge's comment.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Having suffered from a conduct disorder since your childhood, involving
behavioral disturbance, aggression and violence beginning in primary school and
continuing throughout your teenage years.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
When Ryan was a kid, their parents didn't have much money,
but as the family business started taking off, things got
a little more flush. Britney was moved from a public
school to a private school, and it's about this time
that things start going downhill.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Withdrawing very moody. How did that show up agression? It was,
It's sort of hard to pinpoint exactly, but just very
withdrawn from the family and friends. Didn't really seem to
have many friends at that time, you know, we, like
(19:21):
I said earlier, we knew a lot of her friends.
We knew their names. You know, they'd go to parties,
your birthday party is that sort of thing, and then
it all just sort of stopped and we'd maybe hear
one person's name or barely get a conversation out of her.
She's very close to my dad though, but just kept
to herself. Clothes changed, really got into Lady Gaga funny enough,
(19:48):
I think she really loved the whole your Different message,
that whole little Monster's thing that Lady Gaga calls them,
and really started to get quite obsessed with that.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
This is the manifesto little Monster.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
When they're young, little monsters learn.
Speaker 6 (20:10):
That they are scary, ugly, stupid, uned by cupid.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Oh boyd.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
But every monster needs to.
Speaker 6 (20:24):
Find that secret de Brownside, the transform doctor Jack gone
into second.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
You said she was she was close to your dad.
How did that show up and what did that look like?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
They would do a lot together, fishing, you know, rough howls,
make jokes, watch some sort of shows, you know, just
generally hang out.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Did she have a partner of boyfriend girlfriend. You talked
earlier that she was being bullied for possibly liking the
same sex her sexuality at that point? Was that a question?
Speaker 3 (21:06):
No, Actually, it really wasn't. Going through primary school and
high school, you know, she really took an interest into guys.
She would talk about how guys were attractive, and you know,
river boys from home and away and that sort of thing.
So no, it never really came into question until when
(21:26):
she left high school. And then you know, we knew
about Shelby, and then that was sort of advancing. But
it was never really spoken about, not because we didn't
want to talk about it, because she never really wanted
to bring it up.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
When did she leave school?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
She finished at twelve?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Okay, did you ever talk to her about her dreams
and aspirations of what she wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Definitely, I think my sister was not very ambitious. My sister,
you know, I always sort of was very driven. I
just sort of knew what I wanted to do. And
I think that was a very big part of my
parents as well. You know, it was all about, you know,
you've got to make something of yourself in this world.
And I think that really comes down to us having
(22:08):
a better life than what they had. I guess I
was very driven. I knew exactly what I wanted and
sort of how to get it. Where she didn't. She
didn't really have any drive. She didn't really know what
she wanted to do. Actually, at one stage she wanted
to become a cop and sort of go down that path,
but that didn't sort of suffice. And so when I
(22:30):
started noticing her being a little bit different after high school,
and you know, she was hanging out with Shelby a lot,
she actually had a fight with my parents and just
moved out and moved in with Shelby's parents. And I
just thought that was really strange. And because of the
lack of drive, she still didn't really have a job.
(22:50):
I told her she needs to move in with me.
And then I really started to press about what are
you doing now?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Like did she move in with you?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
She did?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
She did?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
She did?
Speaker 2 (22:59):
How long did you two live together?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
For? Not a great deal. It did not work. She
lived there, I'd probably say just under a month. She
could not get the grasp of paying rent. You know,
I was only charging her fifty dollars a week. It
was minimal. We didn't really need the money. But it
was about teaching her I guess how the world works,
and you know, responsibility, and that included all her food
(23:25):
or everything. You know. She would not show up for days,
which whatever, that's just what she wanted to do. But
then go, oh, well, I'm not going to pay for
like three days I wasn't here. That's not really how
it works. And that was essentially the downfall. And I
would press her a lot, like are you going to
go to tafe? Now? Are you going to go in st?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Did she have a job or anything?
Speaker 3 (23:46):
No, she was telling us that she worked for I
think it was Domino's. But I never saw a uniform.
I never. I never, you know, sort of should go
to work at weird times to what I would think
a pizza shop would be open for It's.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Hard to believe that your sister is a murder. It's
the things Ryan learned about her becoming that murderer that's shocking.
The event started when Brittany was at school. It's not
something that Ryan or his mum would ever think would happen,
but there were signs as Brittany was growing up. One
of those signs was her love the macab TV show
(24:25):
called American Horror Story.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And again touching back onto the Lady Gaga thing. She
was in a season on American Horror Story and I
think that's where that started.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
OA.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Oh she's on this show. I'm going to watch it.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
I tell you, if you weren't dead already, you disgust me.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
You're still upset about the Dago you screwed up to me.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
You robbed me of the thing I love the most,
And now I never want to see her pathetic, miserable
face ever again.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Yes, the fascination started to really come.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Was there a particular song that she was listening to
from Gaga?
Speaker 3 (25:02):
They're Born This Way? Okay, and Judas loved that one
as well. That was something that we did together as well.
Every time Leader go I came into it. You know,
I would buy as tickets and we would we'd go.
You know, she's a great performer. I'm happy to go
and see her too. But it was that was a
bit of a bonding thing. But yeah, it was was
truly obsessed with that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
What about drugs? Obviously we know what we know now
post coort, Yeah, but at the time, trying to take
your mind back, did you think drugs played a part?
Speaker 5 (25:30):
Like?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
No, way they were. And you know, I really, even
even today, I struggle so much to wrap my head
around all the drugs and what she was doing. And
because she hit it so well, you know, I look
at I look back at that time and even now,
I'm going, I couldn't see a thing. I couldn't see
(25:53):
a thing to do the drugs.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Did she drink?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Not really in front of me, not really, you know, like.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
So if you went out, she wouldn't like be loose.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
And nope, nope, never. And this is what's so shocking.
You know, we had her eighteenth at my parents' house
on their property and it was very tame. I guess
an indication of where she was at in life as well,
is like she had no friends that turned up to
that eighteenth It's really sad. Yeah, really sad. It was
(26:23):
just all family friends and at the time we didn't
really realize, you know. And then even on that night,
Mom sort of pressed, like where were your friends? So
you know, I don't know, they might come later, you know,
all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, just downplaying it.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Downplayed it a lot.
Speaker 5 (26:41):
Yeah, she'd only has one or two good friends or
you know, friends that she would let mom and dad meet.
Maybe that was the whole ring. And that was Shelby.
Remember at her eighteenth birthday and two girls turned up
at the end of the.
Speaker 6 (26:59):
Night, Like, really, at the end of the night, party
is over. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah, but I didn't even know who they were. I've
never met them before.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
I remember you saying to her, you know, where's everyone crying?
And do you remember what she would say? Oh?
Speaker 5 (27:18):
Yeah, she had different excuses like, oh, they're on their way,
or they'll be here later, or they're just happened dinner first.
And you know, we had the pig on the spit,
we had all that alcohol and the sloshy machines and
all that go. I'm thinking there was going to be
a lot of people. Yeah, I think those two girls
(27:39):
turned up at the end of the night. People were
already leaving to go home, and it was just family
and friends. You know that would come for us as
a family, but we all dressed up, you know, it
was come as your favorite musician, and she was dressed
up as Lady Gaga.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
Of course.
Speaker 6 (27:56):
Of course.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
Yeah, none of her friends turned up. That was Yeah,
that should have told us a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Then Brittany did have some friends. One of those friends
is in jail now as well. She was an accessory
to the murder of Robert Whitwell. We'll talk about Bernadette
Burns later. She had one other friend who wasn't connected
with the murder of Britney's granddad, but did travel to
Adelaide with Brittany months before her granddad was killed. Her
(28:24):
name is Shelby Holmes. Your sister was living out of
home at eighteen. She was living with Shelby. How do
you reckon they became friends.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
I think because they were both a bit of an
outcast at school, it sort of naturally gravitated that way.
Shelby seemed quite sweet as well, and I think that
was a nice balance for my sister, and probably you
(28:53):
know that attracted her to her as well.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
When you mean sweet, talk to me about what you
mean by that.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
She had this sense of you know, I guess in
my own words, sense of innocence, like naivity. I guess,
just very airy fairy, just sort of liked and yeah, bubbly,
I guess, and just she just was a sweet girl.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
She didn't really talk much, so when when she was
over mine, she didn't. But she used to go and
have dinner with my parents all the time, Shelby. So yeah,
that's how I would probably describe her.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Were they just friends or more than friends?
Speaker 3 (29:35):
We always thought it was more. Brittany had told me
there was, you know, relationship sort of stuff there. It
was all it was always sort of when it came out,
it was all denied from Shelby's perspective.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Was there anything that seemed i'll use the word weird
but unusual about their friendship or their relationship.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
That they were just always together, that would be the
only unusual thing from an earlier stage. But I guess
when I used to pick them up from nightclubs and stuff,
I found out that they would go to a lot
of strip shows together. You know, it's sort of male
(30:17):
strip shows no female love and rockets in particular in
the Valley, but I think it since came out in
letters that you know, I think they were in there
for different reasons other than just to enjoy a show.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
It would seem that Brittany and Shelby were very close
at the time Brittany moved out of her home, she
lived with Ryan for a bit, but then she also
moved in with Shelby and her parents. In Quarters revealed
there were over nineteen thousand text messages sent between Shelby
and your sister a two year period. Do you have
(31:00):
any knowledge of any of those text messages and what
they might have said.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, you know, especially on the on the later part,
you know, the communication between them was strange, really dark,
you know, and the things that they would like to
get up to and text about, and what sort of stuff,
oh like talking about like cutting people's throats and blood
(31:29):
and you know, going to rave parties, which you know
doesn't sound so odd, but in the context of everything else,
you know, cruising through like setting up to cruise through
cemeteries and stuff, which I get, you know, seems spooky
and that sort of thing that it became a constant thing.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
More macrb than spooky. Yeah, yeah, And this was part
of their general conversation. Was it jokey or was it?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I mean, from an outsider looking in and when you
read those messages, doesn't seem very jokey to me. But
I guess you can't pick up tone in texts.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
Your Poppa said hi to me, he's lovely.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Don't get attached to him.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
He might have to die.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I don't think it was joky. From my sister's perspective.
I think it was probably a little bit more on
the serious side. And I think Shelby knows that deep down.
But I think it was certainly played off that it
was all meant to be a joke.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
In the next episode of My Sister the Murderer.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
He was wealthy, do you know. It's funny because of
the type of guy he is. You know, he got
around in a Kia and then he might upgrade to
like as a zuki billino, and you know, he certainly
was not flashy. We didn't know at the time how
wealthy actually was. It was one of those houses that,
(33:02):
again modest, but very charming. You know, it had great
street appeal. You drive up the lawn was always manicured.
You had those big, you know trees that you can sculpt, and.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Do you know what was in that bag?
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Yeah, like bolt cutters and tape and a knife, yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
A hammer, tin snips and cable tires. Seems fairly clear
what they were going to do. Do you know if
they had their mobile phones with them when they where
they did? Okay? Yeah, So on the thirtieth of April
twenty sixteen, they leave Brisbane and they drove to Adelaide
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Just before Mother's Day,
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