July 14, 2024 • 29 mins
Ryan, his mum, and family head to court to hear never before news about their own daughter and sister.
it's not just that she killed her Popa, it’s the events and allegations surrounding his murder that shock the family
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Approche production. It's July twenty seventeen, almost a year after
Brittany Dwyer stabbed her granddad to death. In the courtroom
is a brother, Ryan and his mum, but they aren't
there to support their sister and daughter. They're there to
(00:28):
see justice done for their grandfather and father, Robert. What
was that like? You're in court hearing all of the details.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Very surreal it sort of it makes you feel again
like a bit like of an out of body experience.
It was an open courtroom, so there was a lot
of media there and also a lot of people that
were just genuinely interested in the case. I think what
was harder to see was Bernadette's parents were there and
(01:04):
we met them for the first time, and they actually
came up and apologized on behalf of their daughter. And
you know, they were very emotional, as you can imagine,
as was my mum.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Do you remember what they said that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
To go through what my mother has gone through is
disturbing and so upsetting for somebody to ever have to
go through. And they wanted to apologize for any part
of what their daughter had done, for her part in everything. Obviously,
there wasn't a lot of words spoken, It was more
(01:43):
emotional tears. They hugged and I remember saying to Mom afterwards, like,
how did that feel? And she's actually it was really
nice because you have no idea what the parents of
the other party are feeling. We certainly didn't have that
same reception from Shelby's parents. They really just wanted to
(02:07):
move on as fast and forget about it, where Bernadette's
parents were well and truly upset and distraught by the
whole thing as well.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
So the court case was the one we're referencing now,
was the court case for Bernadette and for your sister.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, the first initial one after charges had been had.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
That's right. And then the Shelby case had already been
dealt with or was being dealt with, was being.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Dealt with, but separately because it was being completely separated.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
To remove from the murder. It was more about the trespass. Yeah,
the aggravated trespass. Yeah, your sister's in court in that
first Do you make eye contact with her?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
She wouldn't, dare look up. I tried very hard to
just start to get her attention. I guess I was
sort of looking for some sort of sense of remorse,
I guess accountability. But the whole time she came so
we were already in the courtroom, we were sat down,
(03:07):
we were at the back row actually, and to directly
to my right and down I can see the dock,
and I saw them lead Brittany out from the elevators
at the back of the room and up into the docks.
And the whole time she looked at the floor. Even
when she then got sat in there and she had
to stand up to be addressed by the judge, she
(03:28):
still looked at the floor and just wouldn't once look up.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And I'm guessing that first moment that she speaks, the
question from the judge is how do you plead?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
And her words were guilty.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That changes the outcome of everything. Now, really the brief
of evidence that the police have is relevant, but it's
really about her admission of guilt.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, it means that it didn't have to go to trial.
There was going to be no other real court cases.
There's no jury jury evolved involved. But it also the
biggest thing defied to us that it happened, and to
see the words come out of her mouth means, yeah,
she did it.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And Bernadette her co accused. She also pleaded guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
She did ye similar sort of demeanor an attitude to
Brittany as well. She did look up to see her parents,
but it was a quick glance and then straight back
down again.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Are they sitting together in the same doc.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
No, they were separated. They came out at different times.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Did you catch the eyes of Bernadette's parents? How were they.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Destraw especially her mother? The poor woman just wept the
whole time and her husband was just consoling her. I
think for her, it was also shocking that, you know,
the text messages got read out and some victim impact
statements were read, and to hear the I guess the
(05:14):
fact of what she actually had said in those text
messages about doing it and going through with it. You know,
I remember hearing her mum just sort of have a
bit of a shrill, I guess is the way I
would describe it. Not a scream, not really weeping, but
just like hearing it. It was like she just got stabbed herself.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
It was.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, it's quite awful.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
The victim impact statement. Your mum read one, and you
also read one. Do you have that with you?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I do?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Would you read it for us?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah? I can exact, Okay, victim impact statement was a
way to speak to the judge about how we felt
about the situation, and I guess the impact it has
had on our lives of Britney's actions, And essentially the
judge then takes it in consideration and makes their decision
(06:11):
around how long or what type of sentence they'll give
to Brittany based on the impact that it's had on
other people's lives.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
And what's probably also equally important is you're reading it
in court while your sister's sitting in the dock. So
although this is for the judge.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
It's to her.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You're talking to her.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, Okay, Tuesday, the twenty second of August twenty seventeen
to the presiding Judge in the matter of burns and
to wire, this is an impact statement of Ryan Whitwell.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
To Wire.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
August twenty sixteen will be a month I will never forget,
no matter how hard I try. You would think that
August being my month of birth would be a joyful occasion,
but now it's a time of sorrow. My grandfather, Robert Whitwell,
was a proud and giving family man, always went above
and beyond for anyone who was in need. I'm proud
of that I was able to have inherited those personality characteristics.
(07:11):
I spend a lot of time with my grandfather and
often traveled to Adelai to see him. Since this horrendous
and vicious murder took place, I've struggled and battled with
everyday tasks. Every morning I wake up and the first
thought that hits my mind is were the last moments
of my poor Poppa's life? When I should be waking
up and thinking about what I'm eating for breakfast. The
(07:32):
normality of life for me has dramatically changed. The media
have made it unbearable and impossible to hide. I'm a
prominent hotelier within Brisbane, which, now with this tragedy that
looms over me, cast a shadow of the skills that
should be looked upon, but now a hidden causing my
career to be stagnant. Brittany, I was always your number
one supporter and was always there for you, even given
(07:54):
you a key to my partner and I his home,
allowing you to also call this space yours. You've thrown
this in my face. There were countless moments you could
have come clean, but instead you chose to betray me
your own brother. Since you and Miss Burns decided to
viciously attack my pop up, I've suffered from painstaking anxiety
(08:14):
attacks which now have caused me to be medicated. Ongoing
my family life as I once knew it is dead.
My mother and father have separated, moved out, and filing
for divorce. I now have no sister who do I
turn to now? Who supports me when I'm supporting the supporters.
The upset and anguish that you've both cast upon the
(08:36):
Whitwell and to whire families is unforgivable your honor, I
asked that you apply maximum imprisonment terms upon these two women.
I now every year when my birthday rolls around, have
to relive the memory of this disastrous moment in my life.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Ha haab? Was that to pen?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I think I rewrote it many times. I feel like,
when I think about how I wrote this, there was
so many times where I would wake up one day
and I felt differently about my sister to the point
that I felt maybe a little bit more forgiveness and
was like, you know, that's my sister. And then there's
(09:20):
other days where you know, I pretty much just wanted
her dad and I think maybe when I wrote this
that was one of those days, because I reread this
now and think that I was very harsh. I still
feel that it stands true, but yeah, there's certainly a
lot of emotion in it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
How was it to read it in court? Were we
looking at your sister?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
No, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't look at her.
I thought going in, I thought, totally, no problems, I'll
be able to do that. And then when it actually
got there on the day, I sort of just looked.
I picked a blank space on the wall and just looked.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
There, your mum's this statement. We obviously won't read because
it's your mums. But was the sentiment of that directed
more to Brittany?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, definitely it was. I think nearly all of it
was directed to Brittany. So was my father's. But neither
one of them could bring themselves to read it in court.
They had someone else read out for them.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And was that sentiment why?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah? My dad's were certainly more why, and my mom's
was more I can't believe you did this.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
The whole affair is, of course a tragedy on two fronts.
The very same people who have been so badly damaged
by the sudden and violent end to the life of
mister Whitwell, who is greatly loved and respected, simply shattered
by the fact that it was such a close member
of the family you miss Dwyer, who so callously and
brutally move him. One can hardly imagine the pain and
(11:08):
distress your mother must be feeling having seen her father
killed in this way by her own daughter.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Ryan was so generous with sharing these deeply personal stories
about how he felt about his sister and the feelings
from the whole family. A victim impact statement is just
that it's the impact that a crime has on the victim,
but also those that were impacted, like Ryan and his family.
(11:35):
Ryan suffered from mental health issues after what his sister did,
and he shared that with me.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I think the biggest things that I struggled with is
with anxiety. I think it sort of laysed dormant in
everybody in a way, and people know how to deal
with it differently. And you know, there was probably always
a part of me that was a little bit more hyperactive.
I guess, you know, I'm not one to sit still
(12:05):
very often, and you know, I'm always sort of twitching
my leg or using my hands to speak or something
like that. But with this happening with Brittany and then
the media and you know, you would read online people's
perception of my family without even knowing my family, it
just unlocked this fear, I guess, and it escalated from
(12:28):
what does people think about me? To then I can't
do my job? And then health then started to really
play into it. So my heart would raise and I
would think that I'm having a heart attack, and then
I would actually get pains and it would just manifest
into all this other stuff, and I just found myself
The only way I could pull myself back together was
(12:50):
to lock myself in a toilet cubicle and sit on
the floor. And this would just be in what was
basic life prior. So I'd just be at work and
have to deal with a customer complaint or something like that,
and that'd be no biggie. Just the basic thing would
set it off.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
What did it do to your own relationship?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Made it very hard for Adam and I. I mean
I became a very angry person, and that essentially jeopardized
the relationship. We were together for ten years, We were
engaged we were getting married, and about three months prior
to the wedding we called it off because one, there
(13:32):
was so much anxiety around my parents being together at
the wedding and doing these things and having that family
element all together, but then still being reminded that you
know the reason why your sister's not here is because
of everything that's happened. And then I wasn't coping with
my anxiety well and therefore was just angry at everything.
(13:54):
And I would fight with Adam my ex a lot
and just open for things. And I remember one particular
night I completely lee lost it at his parents, who
are honestly the sweetest people, like they're the most loving
people in the world, but and it just I couldn't
(14:17):
control my own behaviors. And so since then, yeah, I
have been have been medicated for it. How do you
feel now, Yeah, I think you start to unlock a
lot about how you truly felt in that time that
you didn't realize. As it sort of said in that
victim impact statement, you know who supports the supporters. My
(14:37):
parents were canatonic. My dad's trying to ignore everything and
pretend everything's sunky dory, and my mom's you know, suicidal,
and I had to support both of them as much
as I can and be the strong person. But then
I found myself by pushing that way. I just bottled
(14:59):
everything up, and yeah, I think once you start to
unlock all of that, there was some very emotional therapy sessions.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know, when I look back at it now, it's
such a blue I don't know how I got through
it myself, but I'm sure it was my son being.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
There and my mum being there.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
There was days that I couldn't get out of bed.
There was days that did I have a shower? Have
I had a shower? You know, like it was just
I don't know what happens. You go into this whirlwind
of grief and shock and your poor brains just trying
to do its best with all this information that that.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
You're getting, and.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It's hard. I locked myself away. I know that.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
First of all, we.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Had a property and so no one could really get
to me then. And then after my marriage ended, I
moved back under the Gold Coast to be closer with
my mum and I had a unit and it was
all security dates and everything to get in there because
(16:17):
I did have media always leaving things in the letter
box and trying to get in contact with me, And
that was just the last thing that I wanted to
do at that time, when I was still trying to
wrap my mind around the information that I was getting
and then living here and then caught date in Adelaide,
(16:40):
so it'd fly down to Adelaide, and Yeah, the feeling
of that gone back to Dad's house and just knowing
everything that had gone on and that they had planned
all this, and I just didn't realize how phobious she
(17:02):
was and dark that she would be capable of murdering
anyone alone in a family.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Doctor Rayside is of the opinion that you have a
mixed personality disorder with borderline and anti social traits. This
is a longstanding maladaptive pattern of behaving and feeling with
associated marked feelings of chronic depression alternating with rage, disturbance
of self image and identity, disturbance in judgment, and difficulty
(17:42):
establishing satisfying relationships with other people.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Does that ring true?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
What about your sister what you saw?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, definitely, I think you know, there was a time
that as you were reading that made my mind go
back and at the time I sort of just put
it down to kids being kids. But there was things
that she would do growing up that you're like, wow,
that's like a pretty shit thing to do. Had the
CD for example, and obviously she did not like the music,
(18:12):
or she knew I liked it a lot. I was
playing it a lot, and when I was out of
my room, she grabbed it and just ran rocks over
the CD, completely ripping it up, so I didn't have
it anymore. And then there was another time where she
chased me around the house with a knife. How will
we I probably would have been thirteen maybe, so she's late. Yeah, yeah,
(18:37):
And I locked myself in the bathroom and like she
was like flinging the knife around underneath the door, and
you know, I look back at that now, going oh,
But at the time, you know, I just thought she's.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Been a little bitch, you know, but brother sister stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, exactly. You know, apparently that's not so common to do.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Doctor also spoken by the judging courts that a person
with such a disorder typically will experience a lifelong history
of difficulties with relationships, unlawful behavior, impulsivity, irritability and anger,
and failure to sustain consistent work.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I had not heard that before, and a lot of
it it does ring true. There's a lot of traits
there that.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, was there anything in court that was revealed that
you didn't know about your sister or at least what
she claimed, because there's some claims that I want to
put to you in a second that probably I would
think that you would have some thoughts on.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I think the things that came up about the drug use,
the excessive alcohol abuse, I should say, were definitely surprise.
I think the biggest surprise to me, and certainly the
most disturbing was the last minute, thrown out statement around
my grandfather molesting when you grew up, which you know,
(20:08):
was so disgusting. She said that she said that to
one of the psychologists in I think actually to the doctor,
and that is why she did it, which the court
immediately was able to throw that claim out and said
there is no evidence or proof to suggest anything of
(20:29):
the sort.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's insidious that a man who was murdered in that
way should have his reputation besmirched like this.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
This was a premeditated, pre planned, sociopathic killing. It was
quite outrageous and really disgusting, to the point that when
my dad was still in conversation with her and checking
in on her. When that came out, he cut off
all communication.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Have you spoken to your sister or in letters about
her claims about your granddad?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I did, and I think this was actually one of
the lives letters I wrote to her because I found
the response unsettling and I didn't know if it was
true or not. But I said, you know, how could
you even say that, and like when do you think
this would have even happened? And she replied, it did happen.
(21:26):
You know, just because you think he's not that person
doesn't mean that he's not and you know this happened
during like primary school. I just sort of went, I
don't even know how that can be true, because you
were never even there, and he hasn't flown up in
a long time because he's been his elderly. I then
(21:46):
remembered I flashed for I can't remember if it was
in the letters or we found a diary of Brittany's
and she talks about being raped by a guy after
school and this is during like high scholl and that
(22:07):
he did things to her that she didn't want, and
it sort of matched the timeframe she was talking about,
and something that I spoke about with my psychologist was
that if she was doing as many drugs as it
said that she was, and with ice and all of that,
(22:28):
that it could absolutely manipulate. She's putting that pain to
the attachment of my grandfather to justify the end action.
In her head, it did happen, and that that's why
she did what she did. But the problem is the
story's changed too many times, and.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
We want to state, although your grandad's no longer here,
that everything in court, any evidence that was tendered, that
was a possibility. He was thrown out.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
In court. Your sister also told the doc that she
alleges that she grew up in an abusive household. What
do you think she meant by that, Well, you're in
the same house.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, definitely. I definitely don't think it was abusive. My
parents were strict. If we did something wrong, we definitely
knew about it. But I wouldn't say abusive at all.
I think there was ways that she manipulated situations, especially
during the process of speaking to the psychologists, and there
(23:35):
was even in one of the letters that she wrote
to me, she said that you know, oh, I said
this because my lawyer suggested it would be good, something
good to say, so I think in that scenario she
would have gone, yep, I remember Ryan getting a smack
because he did something wrong. I'm going to roll with that.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I want to read the judges' comments on sentencing your sister,
and primarily because they I think that draws some attention
to a couple of things. The first what I'm reading
here is that where the judge is deciding how long
she's going to stand in jail, and so his second
factor is that very early in the piece, your sister
acknowledged her guilt, and more than that, she gave the
(24:16):
police a full and frank, at times disarm.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Rather naively frank accounts of all of your actions and thoughts.
At one level, this demonstrates an acknowledgment of the wrongfulness
of your conduct and is the first an essential step
to change and rehabilitation. Nevertheless, and whilst giving you credit
in that respect, on my reading of your statements to
the police, I do have doubts as to whether you
have any real understanding of how evil and abhorrent your
(24:42):
conduct was. I accept that you knew that your conduct
was wrongful, but I'm not confident that you have the
emotional makeup or capacity to be truly contrivee.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I know exactly what he means. There was a period
where I did speak to her on the phone, and
when my dad also experienced this when he went to
visit her in jail. She was very flippant with some
of the information that she said. It was very unsettling.
It was very chilling how she was just able to yep,
(25:15):
I did this and this and just say it so
calmly and mutter of factly.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Are we talking about the act of murder?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, you know, the way that she stabbed him, and
the way she got the idea from. And then in this.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Where did she get the idea from?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
She claims she got the idea to stab him from
American horror story. But in the same breath as describing
those actions should be like, oh, we had roast here
last night in jail, So it's very chilling. It just
(25:49):
seemed to add those two things together. It seems so off,
like like sociopathic, no empathy.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
She really is disassociative when it comes too Oh yeah,
I killed him, but I had a roast last night.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think she knows what she did, but
either just putting it at the back of the mind,
being like, yeah, pre and post Brittany, right, well, yep,
that's pre killing and post killing. This is my life
now and that was my life before. And she can
talk about them and the actions very independently of each other,
(26:34):
and it's almost like it's two different people.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Which is possibly why after stabbing your grandad she couldn't
look at him while she stabbed him, while he was
bleeding on the chair, she turned around and did the dishes.
But that was just because there were dishes there.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeap, and they needed to be done.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
That wasn't about covering up her tracks or anything.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
No, purely something to keep her hands busy.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Do you think your sister was sorry? Is sorry?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think from the last time I spoke to her
via the letters, No, she wasn't sorry. I don't think
she was remorseful. You know, those words might have physically
been there, but I contacts of the whole letters. No,
(27:27):
I didn't feel that.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
You know, everyone says time heills will worn, and time is.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
A factor in a way, but it's more.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
That you learn to live with it in the beginning.
It's like groundhog day. Every day you wake up and
it's the same shock, Did that really happen?
Speaker 5 (27:48):
Did did that really happen? Every day? Over and over
and over?
Speaker 3 (27:54):
And you know, it does get a little bit better
after time. But I think it's more.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
That you learn to live with the heartache.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
That's how I explain it.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
I just have a heavy heart having to have lived
with that, knowing that my daughter was capable of doing that,
And the worst thing is thinking of my dad in
the last couple of minutes, you know, and her in
the kitchen and things like that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
That really it's hard.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
In the next episode of My Sister the Murderer.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
It's always on my mind. But then the day comes
and it's like a little bit easier than last year
or the year before and things like that.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
But I miss having you in my life, Mum, and
I need you to know that what I did torments
me every day.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
And I do wonder what kind of person she is now.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
And I can't change anything that I've done. You are
still my mother, and I honestly need you now more
than ever.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
I want to get true.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
Every Christmas that goes by without hearing from you, honestly
is killing me inside.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I sort of said, I really don't know what kind
of mother that I could ever be to her again.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
I just I don't know
Approche production. It's July twenty seventeen, almost a year after
Brittany Dwyer stabbed her granddad to death. In the courtroom
is a brother, Ryan and his mum, but they aren't
there to support their sister and daughter. They're there to
(00:28):
see justice done for their grandfather and father, Robert. What
was that like? You're in court hearing all of the details.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Very surreal it sort of it makes you feel again
like a bit like of an out of body experience.
It was an open courtroom, so there was a lot
of media there and also a lot of people that
were just genuinely interested in the case. I think what
was harder to see was Bernadette's parents were there and
(01:04):
we met them for the first time, and they actually
came up and apologized on behalf of their daughter. And
you know, they were very emotional, as you can imagine,
as was my mum.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Do you remember what they said that.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
To go through what my mother has gone through is
disturbing and so upsetting for somebody to ever have to
go through. And they wanted to apologize for any part
of what their daughter had done, for her part in everything. Obviously,
there wasn't a lot of words spoken, It was more
(01:43):
emotional tears. They hugged and I remember saying to Mom afterwards, like,
how did that feel? And she's actually it was really
nice because you have no idea what the parents of
the other party are feeling. We certainly didn't have that
same reception from Shelby's parents. They really just wanted to
(02:07):
move on as fast and forget about it, where Bernadette's
parents were well and truly upset and distraught by the
whole thing as well.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
So the court case was the one we're referencing now,
was the court case for Bernadette and for your sister.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, the first initial one after charges had been had.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
That's right. And then the Shelby case had already been
dealt with or was being dealt with, was being.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Dealt with, but separately because it was being completely separated.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
To remove from the murder. It was more about the trespass. Yeah,
the aggravated trespass. Yeah, your sister's in court in that
first Do you make eye contact with her?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
She wouldn't, dare look up. I tried very hard to
just start to get her attention. I guess I was
sort of looking for some sort of sense of remorse,
I guess accountability. But the whole time she came so
we were already in the courtroom, we were sat down,
(03:07):
we were at the back row actually, and to directly
to my right and down I can see the dock,
and I saw them lead Brittany out from the elevators
at the back of the room and up into the docks.
And the whole time she looked at the floor. Even
when she then got sat in there and she had
to stand up to be addressed by the judge, she
(03:28):
still looked at the floor and just wouldn't once look up.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
And I'm guessing that first moment that she speaks, the
question from the judge is how do you plead?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
And her words were guilty.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That changes the outcome of everything. Now, really the brief
of evidence that the police have is relevant, but it's
really about her admission of guilt.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, it means that it didn't have to go to trial.
There was going to be no other real court cases.
There's no jury jury evolved involved. But it also the
biggest thing defied to us that it happened, and to
see the words come out of her mouth means, yeah,
she did it.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And Bernadette her co accused. She also pleaded guilty.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
She did ye similar sort of demeanor an attitude to
Brittany as well. She did look up to see her parents,
but it was a quick glance and then straight back
down again.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Are they sitting together in the same doc.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
No, they were separated. They came out at different times.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Did you catch the eyes of Bernadette's parents? How were they.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Destraw especially her mother? The poor woman just wept the
whole time and her husband was just consoling her. I
think for her, it was also shocking that, you know,
the text messages got read out and some victim impact
statements were read, and to hear the I guess the
(05:14):
fact of what she actually had said in those text
messages about doing it and going through with it. You know,
I remember hearing her mum just sort of have a
bit of a shrill, I guess is the way I
would describe it. Not a scream, not really weeping, but
just like hearing it. It was like she just got stabbed herself.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
It was.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, it's quite awful.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
The victim impact statement. Your mum read one, and you
also read one. Do you have that with you?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
I do?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Would you read it for us?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah? I can exact, Okay, victim impact statement was a
way to speak to the judge about how we felt
about the situation, and I guess the impact it has
had on our lives of Britney's actions, And essentially the
judge then takes it in consideration and makes their decision
(06:11):
around how long or what type of sentence they'll give
to Brittany based on the impact that it's had on
other people's lives.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
And what's probably also equally important is you're reading it
in court while your sister's sitting in the dock. So
although this is for the judge.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
It's to her.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
You're talking to her.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah, Okay, Tuesday, the twenty second of August twenty seventeen
to the presiding Judge in the matter of burns and
to wire, this is an impact statement of Ryan Whitwell.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
To Wire.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
August twenty sixteen will be a month I will never forget,
no matter how hard I try. You would think that
August being my month of birth would be a joyful occasion,
but now it's a time of sorrow. My grandfather, Robert Whitwell,
was a proud and giving family man, always went above
and beyond for anyone who was in need. I'm proud
of that I was able to have inherited those personality characteristics.
(07:11):
I spend a lot of time with my grandfather and
often traveled to Adelai to see him. Since this horrendous
and vicious murder took place, I've struggled and battled with
everyday tasks. Every morning I wake up and the first
thought that hits my mind is were the last moments
of my poor Poppa's life? When I should be waking
up and thinking about what I'm eating for breakfast. The
(07:32):
normality of life for me has dramatically changed. The media
have made it unbearable and impossible to hide. I'm a
prominent hotelier within Brisbane, which, now with this tragedy that
looms over me, cast a shadow of the skills that
should be looked upon, but now a hidden causing my
career to be stagnant. Brittany, I was always your number
one supporter and was always there for you, even given
(07:54):
you a key to my partner and I his home,
allowing you to also call this space yours. You've thrown
this in my face. There were countless moments you could
have come clean, but instead you chose to betray me
your own brother. Since you and Miss Burns decided to
viciously attack my pop up, I've suffered from painstaking anxiety
(08:14):
attacks which now have caused me to be medicated. Ongoing
my family life as I once knew it is dead.
My mother and father have separated, moved out, and filing
for divorce. I now have no sister who do I
turn to now? Who supports me when I'm supporting the supporters.
The upset and anguish that you've both cast upon the
(08:36):
Whitwell and to whire families is unforgivable your honor, I
asked that you apply maximum imprisonment terms upon these two women.
I now every year when my birthday rolls around, have
to relive the memory of this disastrous moment in my life.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Ha haab? Was that to pen?
Speaker 2 (08:57):
I think I rewrote it many times. I feel like,
when I think about how I wrote this, there was
so many times where I would wake up one day
and I felt differently about my sister to the point
that I felt maybe a little bit more forgiveness and
was like, you know, that's my sister. And then there's
(09:20):
other days where you know, I pretty much just wanted
her dad and I think maybe when I wrote this
that was one of those days, because I reread this
now and think that I was very harsh. I still
feel that it stands true, but yeah, there's certainly a
lot of emotion in it.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
How was it to read it in court? Were we
looking at your sister?
Speaker 2 (09:45):
No, I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't look at her.
I thought going in, I thought, totally, no problems, I'll
be able to do that. And then when it actually
got there on the day, I sort of just looked.
I picked a blank space on the wall and just looked.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
There, your mum's this statement. We obviously won't read because
it's your mums. But was the sentiment of that directed
more to Brittany?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, definitely it was. I think nearly all of it
was directed to Brittany. So was my father's. But neither
one of them could bring themselves to read it in court.
They had someone else read out for them.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And was that sentiment why?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah? My dad's were certainly more why, and my mom's
was more I can't believe you did this.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
The whole affair is, of course a tragedy on two fronts.
The very same people who have been so badly damaged
by the sudden and violent end to the life of
mister Whitwell, who is greatly loved and respected, simply shattered
by the fact that it was such a close member
of the family you miss Dwyer, who so callously and
brutally move him. One can hardly imagine the pain and
(11:08):
distress your mother must be feeling having seen her father
killed in this way by her own daughter.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Ryan was so generous with sharing these deeply personal stories
about how he felt about his sister and the feelings
from the whole family. A victim impact statement is just
that it's the impact that a crime has on the victim,
but also those that were impacted, like Ryan and his family.
(11:35):
Ryan suffered from mental health issues after what his sister did,
and he shared that with me.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
I think the biggest things that I struggled with is
with anxiety. I think it sort of laysed dormant in
everybody in a way, and people know how to deal
with it differently. And you know, there was probably always
a part of me that was a little bit more hyperactive.
I guess, you know, I'm not one to sit still
(12:05):
very often, and you know, I'm always sort of twitching
my leg or using my hands to speak or something
like that. But with this happening with Brittany and then
the media and you know, you would read online people's
perception of my family without even knowing my family, it
just unlocked this fear, I guess, and it escalated from
(12:28):
what does people think about me? To then I can't
do my job? And then health then started to really
play into it. So my heart would raise and I
would think that I'm having a heart attack, and then
I would actually get pains and it would just manifest
into all this other stuff, and I just found myself
The only way I could pull myself back together was
(12:50):
to lock myself in a toilet cubicle and sit on
the floor. And this would just be in what was
basic life prior. So I'd just be at work and
have to deal with a customer complaint or something like that,
and that'd be no biggie. Just the basic thing would
set it off.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
What did it do to your own relationship?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Made it very hard for Adam and I. I mean
I became a very angry person, and that essentially jeopardized
the relationship. We were together for ten years, We were
engaged we were getting married, and about three months prior
to the wedding we called it off because one, there
(13:32):
was so much anxiety around my parents being together at
the wedding and doing these things and having that family
element all together, but then still being reminded that you
know the reason why your sister's not here is because
of everything that's happened. And then I wasn't coping with
my anxiety well and therefore was just angry at everything.
(13:54):
And I would fight with Adam my ex a lot
and just open for things. And I remember one particular
night I completely lee lost it at his parents, who
are honestly the sweetest people, like they're the most loving
people in the world, but and it just I couldn't
(14:17):
control my own behaviors. And so since then, yeah, I
have been have been medicated for it. How do you
feel now, Yeah, I think you start to unlock a
lot about how you truly felt in that time that
you didn't realize. As it sort of said in that
victim impact statement, you know who supports the supporters. My
(14:37):
parents were canatonic. My dad's trying to ignore everything and
pretend everything's sunky dory, and my mom's you know, suicidal,
and I had to support both of them as much
as I can and be the strong person. But then
I found myself by pushing that way. I just bottled
(14:59):
everything up, and yeah, I think once you start to
unlock all of that, there was some very emotional therapy sessions.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
You know, when I look back at it now, it's
such a blue I don't know how I got through
it myself, but I'm sure it was my son being.
Speaker 5 (15:19):
There and my mum being there.
Speaker 6 (15:22):
You know.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
There was days that I couldn't get out of bed.
There was days that did I have a shower? Have
I had a shower? You know, like it was just
I don't know what happens. You go into this whirlwind
of grief and shock and your poor brains just trying
to do its best with all this information that that.
Speaker 5 (15:48):
You're getting, and.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
It's hard. I locked myself away. I know that.
Speaker 5 (15:56):
First of all, we.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Had a property and so no one could really get
to me then. And then after my marriage ended, I
moved back under the Gold Coast to be closer with
my mum and I had a unit and it was
all security dates and everything to get in there because
(16:17):
I did have media always leaving things in the letter
box and trying to get in contact with me, And
that was just the last thing that I wanted to
do at that time, when I was still trying to
wrap my mind around the information that I was getting
and then living here and then caught date in Adelaide,
(16:40):
so it'd fly down to Adelaide, and Yeah, the feeling
of that gone back to Dad's house and just knowing
everything that had gone on and that they had planned
all this, and I just didn't realize how phobious she
(17:02):
was and dark that she would be capable of murdering
anyone alone in a family.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Doctor Rayside is of the opinion that you have a
mixed personality disorder with borderline and anti social traits. This
is a longstanding maladaptive pattern of behaving and feeling with
associated marked feelings of chronic depression alternating with rage, disturbance
of self image and identity, disturbance in judgment, and difficulty
(17:42):
establishing satisfying relationships with other people.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Does that ring true?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:48):
What about your sister what you saw?
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, definitely, I think you know, there was a time
that as you were reading that made my mind go
back and at the time I sort of just put
it down to kids being kids. But there was things
that she would do growing up that you're like, wow,
that's like a pretty shit thing to do. Had the
CD for example, and obviously she did not like the music,
(18:12):
or she knew I liked it a lot. I was
playing it a lot, and when I was out of
my room, she grabbed it and just ran rocks over
the CD, completely ripping it up, so I didn't have
it anymore. And then there was another time where she
chased me around the house with a knife. How will
we I probably would have been thirteen maybe, so she's late. Yeah, yeah,
(18:37):
And I locked myself in the bathroom and like she
was like flinging the knife around underneath the door, and
you know, I look back at that now, going oh,
But at the time, you know, I just thought she's.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Been a little bitch, you know, but brother sister stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Yeah, exactly. You know, apparently that's not so common to do.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Doctor also spoken by the judging courts that a person
with such a disorder typically will experience a lifelong history
of difficulties with relationships, unlawful behavior, impulsivity, irritability and anger,
and failure to sustain consistent work.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I had not heard that before, and a lot of
it it does ring true. There's a lot of traits
there that.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yeah, was there anything in court that was revealed that
you didn't know about your sister or at least what
she claimed, because there's some claims that I want to
put to you in a second that probably I would
think that you would have some thoughts on.
Speaker 5 (19:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
I think the things that came up about the drug use,
the excessive alcohol abuse, I should say, were definitely surprise.
I think the biggest surprise to me, and certainly the
most disturbing was the last minute, thrown out statement around
my grandfather molesting when you grew up, which you know,
(20:08):
was so disgusting. She said that she said that to
one of the psychologists in I think actually to the doctor,
and that is why she did it, which the court
immediately was able to throw that claim out and said
there is no evidence or proof to suggest anything of
(20:29):
the sort.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
It's insidious that a man who was murdered in that
way should have his reputation besmirched like this.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
This was a premeditated, pre planned, sociopathic killing. It was
quite outrageous and really disgusting, to the point that when
my dad was still in conversation with her and checking
in on her. When that came out, he cut off
all communication.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
Have you spoken to your sister or in letters about
her claims about your granddad?
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I did, and I think this was actually one of
the lives letters I wrote to her because I found
the response unsettling and I didn't know if it was
true or not. But I said, you know, how could
you even say that, and like when do you think
this would have even happened? And she replied, it did happen.
(21:26):
You know, just because you think he's not that person
doesn't mean that he's not and you know this happened
during like primary school. I just sort of went, I
don't even know how that can be true, because you
were never even there, and he hasn't flown up in
a long time because he's been his elderly. I then
(21:46):
remembered I flashed for I can't remember if it was
in the letters or we found a diary of Brittany's
and she talks about being raped by a guy after
school and this is during like high scholl and that
(22:07):
he did things to her that she didn't want, and
it sort of matched the timeframe she was talking about,
and something that I spoke about with my psychologist was
that if she was doing as many drugs as it
said that she was, and with ice and all of that,
(22:28):
that it could absolutely manipulate. She's putting that pain to
the attachment of my grandfather to justify the end action.
In her head, it did happen, and that that's why
she did what she did. But the problem is the
story's changed too many times, and.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
We want to state, although your grandad's no longer here,
that everything in court, any evidence that was tendered, that
was a possibility. He was thrown out.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, absolutely was.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
In court. Your sister also told the doc that she
alleges that she grew up in an abusive household. What
do you think she meant by that, Well, you're in
the same house.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Yeah, definitely. I definitely don't think it was abusive. My
parents were strict. If we did something wrong, we definitely
knew about it. But I wouldn't say abusive at all.
I think there was ways that she manipulated situations, especially
during the process of speaking to the psychologists, and there
(23:35):
was even in one of the letters that she wrote
to me, she said that you know, oh, I said
this because my lawyer suggested it would be good, something
good to say, so I think in that scenario she
would have gone, yep, I remember Ryan getting a smack
because he did something wrong. I'm going to roll with that.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I want to read the judges' comments on sentencing your sister,
and primarily because they I think that draws some attention
to a couple of things. The first what I'm reading
here is that where the judge is deciding how long
she's going to stand in jail, and so his second
factor is that very early in the piece, your sister
acknowledged her guilt, and more than that, she gave the
(24:16):
police a full and frank, at times disarm.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
Rather naively frank accounts of all of your actions and thoughts.
At one level, this demonstrates an acknowledgment of the wrongfulness
of your conduct and is the first an essential step
to change and rehabilitation. Nevertheless, and whilst giving you credit
in that respect, on my reading of your statements to
the police, I do have doubts as to whether you
have any real understanding of how evil and abhorrent your
(24:42):
conduct was. I accept that you knew that your conduct
was wrongful, but I'm not confident that you have the
emotional makeup or capacity to be truly contrivee.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I know exactly what he means. There was a period
where I did speak to her on the phone, and
when my dad also experienced this when he went to
visit her in jail. She was very flippant with some
of the information that she said. It was very unsettling.
It was very chilling how she was just able to yep,
(25:15):
I did this and this and just say it so
calmly and mutter of factly.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Are we talking about the act of murder?
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, you know, the way that she stabbed him, and
the way she got the idea from. And then in this.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Where did she get the idea from?
Speaker 2 (25:28):
She claims she got the idea to stab him from
American horror story. But in the same breath as describing
those actions should be like, oh, we had roast here
last night in jail, So it's very chilling. It just
(25:49):
seemed to add those two things together. It seems so off,
like like sociopathic, no empathy.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
She really is disassociative when it comes too Oh yeah,
I killed him, but I had a roast last night.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
Yeah, yeah, I think she knows what she did, but
either just putting it at the back of the mind,
being like, yeah, pre and post Brittany, right, well, yep,
that's pre killing and post killing. This is my life
now and that was my life before. And she can
talk about them and the actions very independently of each other,
(26:34):
and it's almost like it's two different people.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Which is possibly why after stabbing your grandad she couldn't
look at him while she stabbed him, while he was
bleeding on the chair, she turned around and did the dishes.
But that was just because there were dishes there.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Yeap, and they needed to be done.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
That wasn't about covering up her tracks or anything.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
No, purely something to keep her hands busy.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Do you think your sister was sorry? Is sorry?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
I think from the last time I spoke to her
via the letters, No, she wasn't sorry. I don't think
she was remorseful. You know, those words might have physically
been there, but I contacts of the whole letters. No,
(27:27):
I didn't feel that.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
You know, everyone says time heills will worn, and time is.
Speaker 5 (27:35):
A factor in a way, but it's more.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
That you learn to live with it in the beginning.
It's like groundhog day. Every day you wake up and
it's the same shock, Did that really happen?
Speaker 5 (27:48):
Did did that really happen? Every day? Over and over
and over?
Speaker 3 (27:54):
And you know, it does get a little bit better
after time. But I think it's more.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
That you learn to live with the heartache.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
That's how I explain it.
Speaker 5 (28:06):
I just have a heavy heart having to have lived
with that, knowing that my daughter was capable of doing that,
And the worst thing is thinking of my dad in
the last couple of minutes, you know, and her in
the kitchen and things like that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
That really it's hard.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
In the next episode of My Sister the Murderer.
Speaker 7 (28:38):
It's always on my mind. But then the day comes
and it's like a little bit easier than last year
or the year before and things like that.
Speaker 6 (28:48):
But I miss having you in my life, Mum, and
I need you to know that what I did torments
me every day.
Speaker 5 (28:57):
And I do wonder what kind of person she is now.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
And I can't change anything that I've done. You are
still my mother, and I honestly need you now more
than ever.
Speaker 5 (29:10):
I want to get true.
Speaker 6 (29:14):
Every Christmas that goes by without hearing from you, honestly
is killing me inside.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I sort of said, I really don't know what kind
of mother that I could ever be to her again.
Speaker 5 (29:27):
I just I don't know
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