July 29, 2024 • 25 mins
In this final episode, hear how Ryan and his mum, Tonya, start to rebuild there lives without Brittney in it.
Can they ever forgive her, Will they ever see her again? And how do you rebuild after something like this?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apoche production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The moment Brittany was convicted, Australia's media went into overdrive.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
The court her dwire was motivated by money.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Why did she really do it?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Whire will be eligible for parole two thousand and thirty seven.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Burns was jailed for.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thirty Everyone wanted the story. A story like this happens
in America or on TV shows, But it doesn't happen
in Australia, and it doesn't happen with a girl from
Brisbane who kills her granddad in Adelaide. I remember seeing
this story for the first time on the TV show
Sunday Night with Melissa Doyle.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
How did this girl, Brittany turn into a monster? What
are the signs that I missed?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
She murdered her own grandfather then went back to doing
the dishes.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It was my.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Daughter killed him.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
An Australian horror story. Her family speak exclusively to.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Sunday Night that anger that's inside.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Never did I think that she was dark?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
There's lies. We were there together with his killer. Now
will her partner and crime finally come clean?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You could have stopped it.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Do you want to say sorry?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Why did you really do it?
Speaker 6 (01:26):
Could she just be pure?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Cold, hard evil.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
She'ssichopath.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah. You talked about the media in our interview and
you said, you know, there was a storm of media
attention once, not necessarily when your grandfather first died, but
once they worked out that your sister was the one
that did it. What was the decision to do the
Sunday Night program?
Speaker 7 (01:51):
We were sort of bombarded with a lot of media
and we had certainly a lot of people coming to
us about wanting to do a story, and everybody's opinion
was very much of this is what we would like
to do, you know, are you going to be a
part of it?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Essentially?
Speaker 7 (02:10):
And the only I guess producer from any show that
actually said to us what would you like to get
out of it and how would you like the story
to be framed?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
With such empathy.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
Was the team at Sunday Night, particularly the producer Naima,
and we met up for dinner on the Gold Coast,
and the way that she sort of spoke to us
on the phone, it was to me at the beginning,
she genuinely, genuinely sorry, actually just spoke to me as
a person and rather than like a salacious story and said,
(02:47):
you know, is there anything that we can help throughout
this process too, is the information you would like to
find out? You know, we do have those resources. So
that essentially started off the conversation. She was really good.
There was you know, no pushing or I didn't feel
like we were on a deadline, even though I'm sure
they were. And then the next steps was to actually
(03:09):
meet Melissa Doyle and that sort of solidified it for us.
The genuine care that she had that we felt from
her just made it the right fit. And I'm really
glad we did it because it ended up you know,
we got to say the story from our perspective and
how to influenced our family, but also it was very therapeutic.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
By a long after was it that you got to
talk to them?
Speaker 7 (03:33):
I think it was shortly we filmed, and I think
it aired pretty quickly, just before sentencing, because I know
they had to release an update by the time the
show aired. That sentencing is like in a week or something.
From memory, So it.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Was and your mom mel Doyle and your Mum's still close.
Speaker 7 (03:54):
Now, yeah, absolutely, I mean it just goes to show
what a beautiful person mel is but consistently reaches out
to my mom and I sends emails at saying, you know,
Merry Christmas, I hope you're doing well. They still chat
quite regularly, consistently, keeps checking in, which.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Is really nice.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
And that story was obviously released I think in twenty sixteen,
so much that you know, Mum's not one to want
to do these sort of things, but you know, if
Mel gives her a call, she'll do what Mel wants
because of you know, the relationship that that formed.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
We've been talking for a while about doing this podcast.
You have some reluctance to start with. Let's talk about that.
What's what was the reluctance to start with?
Speaker 7 (04:46):
Ah, you know, I think a big part of it is,
you know, reliving the story.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You know, I.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
Do quite well at the fact of being able to
sort of split myself into and sort of think.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
About it has a story that I.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
Would potentially want to watch on a TV show or
on a podcast, but then at the same time knowing
that it's my own story, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
And I think when you're.
Speaker 7 (05:19):
Physically being interviewed and reliving it, it brings up a
lot of emotion and it is very draining and upsetting
as anyone could imagine. But I think I was nervous
to do it as well, because you know, I want
to do it justice in a way.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Melissa Doyle is the host of Sunday Night and has
become really close to the family. She recently made the
trip up to Queensland to visit Tanya. Years after this
made the headlines in twenty twenty two, Melissa also wrote
a book called fifteen Seconds of Brave.
Speaker 7 (05:54):
I actually have a card that Melissa Doyle hand delivered
to my mum with a copy of her book, which
was called fifteen second of Brave.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
How do you mean had delivered like she flew up Sydney.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, so she actually flew up from Sydney.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
She was doing her book tour and actually hand when
and saw Mum and hand delivered it to her as
a big thank you for being a part of the
being a part of the book. Melissa actually chose Mum
to be the opening chapter of the book as well,
so she picked I think it's seven specific stories and
(06:33):
her whole journalism career that just never left her. But
it wasn't so much about the story. It was more
about the amazing attitude that somebody has after all that happens.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I initially considered writing a book about resilience for personal reasons.
At the beginning of twenty twenty, my fiftieth birthday lurked
ominously around the corner. Meanwhile, Sunday night, the public affairs
program I hosted for Channel seven, had just been canceled,
and I'd begun to worry my future with seven, the
station that had been like a home to me for
(07:10):
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
One.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Tanya. The first time I encountered Tanya Wickwell in twenty seventeen,
just over a year had passed since her quiet, happy
life in the Brisbane suburbs ended and a traumatic new
existence appeared in front of her. It is no exaggeration
to say she was the most broken person I'd met
in all my years covering the news. Emotionally, Tanya was
(07:36):
on her knees, it showed in her tired eyes, and
she told me with a fragile half smile that she
was hardly sleeping at night. Knowing in broad brushstrokes what
Tanya had endured, I dared not ask about the thoughts
that stalked her in those cursed hours of lonely wakefulness.
Speaker 7 (07:54):
The book is actually named fifteen Seconds of Brave because
there was a little boy who underwent a lot of
different treatments and he just said, you know, to get
through this, I just have to be brave for fifteen seconds.
And I think it's actually it's a beautiful book. I've
read it a few times. The inside the card, it says,
(08:16):
dearest Tanya, thank you so much for agreeing to be
a part of my book and sharing so much of
your life and its challenges with me. This feels like
the most precious and valuable project I have ever had
the honor of working on, and I have no doubt
your wise words and bravery will be a lifeline to
many readers. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
(08:39):
Love you always.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Mel.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
My pain is all on the inside, she points out,
there are no scars, It's just hurting and no one
can see it. So Tanya decided to mark each milestone
of her journey. Her first tattoo was the word Dad
next to a blue rose on the inside.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
Of her right reason.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
There was many times that.
Speaker 7 (09:02):
Whilst I was filming with Mel, someone looking back at
me was equally as emotional and crying like me. And
it just goes to show you, know those stories, you know,
she's not just doing it for a story like that
is obviously a part of the job, but she genuinely
has feelings and his feeling as well. And I remember
(09:24):
saying to her, you know, you know you're also getting emotional,
and She's like, the day I stopped getting emotional is
the day that I resign and I finish up, because
then it means I'm not being affected by these stories
anymore and it's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
As part of that Sunday night program, there was another
guest on that show. Yeah, obviously it wasn't filmed at
the same time. You know, you didn't see each other, No,
but you would have watched the show. You probably watched
it live.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I'm thinking I did.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yes, that guest on the show was Shelby, who.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Was on remand at the time, I believe.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Talk to me about how you felt about her on Telly.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
They had asked us, when I say they, the producers
of the show had asked us if we would mind
if she was involved, And at the time, I thought
it would be great get her on board because.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I knew I knew how it would pan out. I
knew that.
Speaker 7 (10:39):
It would make her look quite guilty and that she
isn't that remorseful from what I could experience. So that's
from what I did experience with her. So I sort
of figured it'll go one of two ways. I'll either
make her look really good and she redeems herself in
(11:00):
the eyes of the public, or you'll go the way
that I think it will go and it will do
exactly what I think it is and she won't look
so great at all. And that's the way it did go.
And so when I actually saw it live on TP
just filled me with rage. Honestly, who were you with?
(11:23):
I was with my mum and my grandmother. We were
watching it live at my house in Karendale, and we
when that component came on, we just felt that she
didn't take any responsibility for the part.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Her mother was pressing her to say.
Speaker 7 (11:45):
Sorry and that's what they want to hear, and you know,
just do it and sort of move on. And you
know that you can see the body language throughout that
segment as well, and yeah, it just it made us
all very angry. Like I said, we also knew that
that's probably how it was going to turn out. She
(12:06):
had the ability to set the record straight for her,
and you know, there was one particular scene that Mel
asked her, is you know, why didn't you say anything?
Why didn't you reach out to Tanya? Why didn't you
call the police? Why didn't you just do something? And
(12:27):
she just sort of shrugs it off and goes, well,
I thought it was a big joke.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And I think that was the part that just I
was so angry. I'm just like, that is such a.
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Blazing disregard for the whole scenario that we face, and
just she was the first person to actually get some
sort of this, some sort of information from Brittany that
we could have stopped it in its tracks there and then,
but instead it escalated way past Shelby's.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Ryan's right to have an opinion on how Shelby seemed
on TV the night that it aired in Australia, This story,
the story of Brittany murdering her granddad, is hard to
escape for the family, even on holidays overseas, the story
re is its ugly head.
Speaker 8 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
So I went to America for my thirtieth birthday. It
was a five week trip around the country to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I was actually in.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
Las Vegas at the time, and I was watching one
of their True Crime channels that they just have on
consistently twenty four hours a day, and a story popped
up which seemed quite familiar to me, and it actually
was a story that they had filmed in their own
account about the murder of my grandfather.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
Nothing brightens a grandparents' day more than seeing their grandchildren.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Hi, grandfather, you do.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
In August twenty sixteen, Brittany Dwyer surprises her grandpa, eighty
one year old Robert Whitwell.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
She's welcomed in with open arms.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I love it, she too, Grandpa, I haven't seen you
in ages.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Her grandfather was so glad to see her, it had
been so long. The tyranny of distance keeps them apart.
Robert lives in South Australia, while nineteen year old Brittany
is from the north in Queensland.
Speaker 7 (14:44):
Brittany and her grandfather had a close relationship even though
they were twelve hundred miles apart.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
They spoke, they interacted.
Speaker 7 (14:53):
The actors weren't anybody notable, but it was clearly filmed
with American people in mind to place at roles and
then a lot of the interview use and the characters
were Australian and I've chose to block out a lot
of things. So again, yeah, deep diving into that is
(15:16):
you know, it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And how hard has that been reliving? You know, we've
spent a lot of time together talking and asking questions
that are you know, they're hard because they're going back
into the depths of Hey, what do you remember about
this time? How did you feel? Yeah, how has that
been for your own mental health over the last times
were recorded?
Speaker 7 (15:36):
Well, it's it's physically exhausting, you know, you just want
to you know, shortly after our first meeting, I went
back to the hotel room and I had to just
like get into bed and like wrap myself up, so
to speak, because you just feel like you need to
(15:57):
decompress and absorb everything you've sort of spoken about.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So, yeah, it's it's hard. I would definitely say it's hard.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You notice we've spoken to Ryan a lot in this podcast.
It really is his account of the story. We did
reach out to others to play a part, including Shelby,
her lawyers, and other people, but we made the choice,
given the name of the show, that this was Ryan's
telling of his story. We did want to talk to Tanya,
Ryan's mum to see how she felt, and there was
(16:29):
a bit of nervousness from Ryan about what that might
look like. We decided that a good way to deal
with it might be for Ryan to chat with her
and then, with her permission, us being able to air
that call in the podcast.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
It's even more exhausting for her so to speak physically
and mentally draining that once it's done, she sort of
just goes, Okay, it's done. Now, I don't want to
do it anymore. So we have limited time to be
able to do that. I know that it will be
quite upsetting and hard for her to do, even just
(17:06):
an informal chat like that. I mean, her and I
talk about the situation a lot, but I sort of
allow her to lead the conversation in that and talk
about what she wants to talk about.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
At that time.
Speaker 8 (17:18):
I guess, now, you know, talking about everything. Do you
do you still think about her? Now?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Like?
Speaker 8 (17:27):
How often do you do you think about Oh?
Speaker 9 (17:30):
Every day? Every single day? I think about it.
Speaker 8 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean I'm the same. I can say that
I think every single day. At some point in the
day I think about it, and people ask me, you know,
are you angry or are you are you do forgive
her and am every day is different? Do you find that?
Speaker 9 (17:49):
No, I'm still at the I remember I was really
angry in the beginning and been sad, and you go
through different emotions, but I'm still I still have hopes
that we will talk one day and she will fill
in the blanket for me. I mean, she's going to
(18:09):
be forty when she gets out of jail, so you know,
that's not really that old, so she's still got, you know,
a few years to live after that, and I mean
maybe Grandma won't be around then, or all her grandparents
and I might be. And I don't know if she'll
(18:32):
continue to live in Adelaide or if she'll move back
up here or whatever. But I am hoping that we
will talk one day.
Speaker 8 (18:43):
I mean that's even depends on if she gets the
role so that she can get life. So she has
to apply for the role at that time to see
if you get out. But I guess after you know,
you are hopeful that you've talk. Do you think that
would leave lead into forgiveness?
Speaker 9 (19:03):
Not one business? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know about
the forgiveness. I don't know if I can ever forget,
because this is just I didn't ever think that anyone
could turn my world upside down. You know, I was strong,
independent woman before, and I didn't think anyone could ever
(19:27):
flit my world around like it did. But yeah she did.
And yeah, there's a lot of a lot of hurt
in the heavy hearts.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
Yeah, and how do you feel about it all? Now?
Speaker 9 (19:46):
I take each day as it comes. You know, you're
always going to have bad days when it's an anniversary
or Father's Day or Dad's poppy birthday and things like that.
But I've learnt to keep myself busy and you know,
(20:08):
I'll go out that day so the day goes faster
and keep my mind occupied and things like that. You know,
knowing that Brittany's birthday is coming up soon and things
like that. It's always on my mind. But then the
day comes and it's like, you know, it's a little
bit easier than last year or the year before and
(20:32):
things like that. If you do learn to cope year
after year.
Speaker 8 (20:38):
I still find all the anniversary is pretty difficult that
I try to. Yeah, I stay busy or I'll work
from home and I try to. I guess, if like
Pop his birthday and I guess, you know, the day
he passed away, I'll try to like light a candle
and make sure that I really think of him. I
think Brittany's birthday is probably actually the hardest for me
(21:02):
because it's crazy to think, you know, the age that
she is at now, and she went in and you know,
she was just shy of like, I think she's just
her nineteen when she went in and was arrested, and
now you know, she's only five years behind me, so
you know, she's getting up there in age, and it's
(21:22):
just crazy that this whole, her whole life is gone.
Speaker 9 (21:28):
And I do wonder what kind of person she is
now because there's where she is. She toughened up and
hardened up. And yeah, there's a lot of questions to
be answered.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, definitely, Why did you want to do a podcast?
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Now?
Speaker 7 (21:53):
You know, it's one of those things that will always
be with me. You know, there's no escaping it.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think being able to.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
Talk about the story from a perspective now that I've
been able to sit.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
With it for a little while.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
You know, it's been a few years now, there has
been conversations with her, and I see it in an
indifferent light compared to what it was like when I
first was going through it, so I wanted to I
wanted to sort of refresh, if that makes sense, and
(22:37):
do the podcast.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Brittany Dwyer was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder
of her proper Robert. She'll serve a minimum of twenty
years without parole. She'll be eligible for parole in twenty
thirty six. She'll be thirty nine years old. Bernadette Burns
was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of Robert.
(23:03):
She'll serve a minimum thirteen and a half years without
parole and will be eligible for parole in twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
Miss Burns, you also must receive punishment that is fitting
and deserved. Your level of culpability is, of course, much
less than that of Missdwire. You did not intend to
have mister Whitwell killed or to suffer really serious bodily harm. However,
you engaged with, encouraged, and assisted Misdwire in the robbery,
(23:35):
contemplating that violence towards and physical harm to an eighty
one year old man might very well result. Your offending
was also very serious, although I accept the circumstances place
it towards the lower end of objective seriousness for the
crime of murder.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Shelby Holmes was charged with aggravated serious criminal trespass and
given a nine month suspended sentence. My Sister the Murderer
was written in produced by me Jay Walkerdin from pod Shape.
Extra editing and mixing was done by Jared Young at
Chump Chump and Shad Wicker at pod Shape. Research was
(24:15):
from Melissa Gibson. Logo design from Dan a Cyborg and
I also want to say a personal thanks to Ryan
and Tanya for trusting us with this really personal story.
We have used AI in this podcast to recreate some
of the parts of the court case. Thanks for listening.
Apoche production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
The moment Brittany was convicted, Australia's media went into overdrive.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
The court her dwire was motivated by money.
Speaker 4 (00:17):
Why did she really do it?
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Whire will be eligible for parole two thousand and thirty seven.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Burns was jailed for.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Thirty Everyone wanted the story. A story like this happens
in America or on TV shows, But it doesn't happen
in Australia, and it doesn't happen with a girl from
Brisbane who kills her granddad in Adelaide. I remember seeing
this story for the first time on the TV show
Sunday Night with Melissa Doyle.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
How did this girl, Brittany turn into a monster? What
are the signs that I missed?
Speaker 4 (00:49):
She murdered her own grandfather then went back to doing
the dishes.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It was my.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Daughter killed him.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
An Australian horror story. Her family speak exclusively to.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Sunday Night that anger that's inside.
Speaker 5 (01:06):
Never did I think that she was dark?
Speaker 1 (01:09):
There's lies. We were there together with his killer. Now
will her partner and crime finally come clean?
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You could have stopped it.
Speaker 5 (01:20):
Do you want to say sorry?
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Why did you really do it?
Speaker 6 (01:26):
Could she just be pure?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Cold, hard evil.
Speaker 6 (01:30):
She'ssichopath.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah. You talked about the media in our interview and
you said, you know, there was a storm of media
attention once, not necessarily when your grandfather first died, but
once they worked out that your sister was the one
that did it. What was the decision to do the
Sunday Night program?
Speaker 7 (01:51):
We were sort of bombarded with a lot of media
and we had certainly a lot of people coming to
us about wanting to do a story, and everybody's opinion
was very much of this is what we would like
to do, you know, are you going to be a
part of it?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Essentially?
Speaker 7 (02:10):
And the only I guess producer from any show that
actually said to us what would you like to get
out of it and how would you like the story
to be framed?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
With such empathy.
Speaker 7 (02:25):
Was the team at Sunday Night, particularly the producer Naima,
and we met up for dinner on the Gold Coast,
and the way that she sort of spoke to us
on the phone, it was to me at the beginning,
she genuinely, genuinely sorry, actually just spoke to me as
a person and rather than like a salacious story and said,
(02:47):
you know, is there anything that we can help throughout
this process too, is the information you would like to
find out? You know, we do have those resources. So
that essentially started off the conversation. She was really good.
There was you know, no pushing or I didn't feel
like we were on a deadline, even though I'm sure
they were. And then the next steps was to actually
(03:09):
meet Melissa Doyle and that sort of solidified it for us.
The genuine care that she had that we felt from
her just made it the right fit. And I'm really
glad we did it because it ended up you know,
we got to say the story from our perspective and
how to influenced our family, but also it was very therapeutic.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
By a long after was it that you got to
talk to them?
Speaker 7 (03:33):
I think it was shortly we filmed, and I think
it aired pretty quickly, just before sentencing, because I know
they had to release an update by the time the
show aired. That sentencing is like in a week or something.
From memory, So it.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Was and your mom mel Doyle and your Mum's still close.
Speaker 7 (03:54):
Now, yeah, absolutely, I mean it just goes to show
what a beautiful person mel is but consistently reaches out
to my mom and I sends emails at saying, you know,
Merry Christmas, I hope you're doing well. They still chat
quite regularly, consistently, keeps checking in, which.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Is really nice.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
And that story was obviously released I think in twenty sixteen,
so much that you know, Mum's not one to want
to do these sort of things, but you know, if
Mel gives her a call, she'll do what Mel wants
because of you know, the relationship that that formed.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
We've been talking for a while about doing this podcast.
You have some reluctance to start with. Let's talk about that.
What's what was the reluctance to start with?
Speaker 7 (04:46):
Ah, you know, I think a big part of it is,
you know, reliving the story.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You know, I.
Speaker 7 (04:57):
Do quite well at the fact of being able to
sort of split myself into and sort of think.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
About it has a story that I.
Speaker 7 (05:06):
Would potentially want to watch on a TV show or
on a podcast, but then at the same time knowing
that it's my own story, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
And I think when you're.
Speaker 7 (05:19):
Physically being interviewed and reliving it, it brings up a
lot of emotion and it is very draining and upsetting
as anyone could imagine. But I think I was nervous
to do it as well, because you know, I want
to do it justice in a way.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Melissa Doyle is the host of Sunday Night and has
become really close to the family. She recently made the
trip up to Queensland to visit Tanya. Years after this
made the headlines in twenty twenty two, Melissa also wrote
a book called fifteen Seconds of Brave.
Speaker 7 (05:54):
I actually have a card that Melissa Doyle hand delivered
to my mum with a copy of her book, which
was called fifteen second of Brave.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
How do you mean had delivered like she flew up Sydney.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, so she actually flew up from Sydney.
Speaker 7 (06:12):
She was doing her book tour and actually hand when
and saw Mum and hand delivered it to her as
a big thank you for being a part of the
being a part of the book. Melissa actually chose Mum
to be the opening chapter of the book as well,
so she picked I think it's seven specific stories and
(06:33):
her whole journalism career that just never left her. But
it wasn't so much about the story. It was more
about the amazing attitude that somebody has after all that happens.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
I initially considered writing a book about resilience for personal reasons.
At the beginning of twenty twenty, my fiftieth birthday lurked
ominously around the corner. Meanwhile, Sunday night, the public affairs
program I hosted for Channel seven, had just been canceled,
and I'd begun to worry my future with seven, the
station that had been like a home to me for
(07:10):
twenty five.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
One.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Tanya. The first time I encountered Tanya Wickwell in twenty seventeen,
just over a year had passed since her quiet, happy
life in the Brisbane suburbs ended and a traumatic new
existence appeared in front of her. It is no exaggeration
to say she was the most broken person I'd met
in all my years covering the news. Emotionally, Tanya was
(07:36):
on her knees, it showed in her tired eyes, and
she told me with a fragile half smile that she
was hardly sleeping at night. Knowing in broad brushstrokes what
Tanya had endured, I dared not ask about the thoughts
that stalked her in those cursed hours of lonely wakefulness.
Speaker 7 (07:54):
The book is actually named fifteen Seconds of Brave because
there was a little boy who underwent a lot of
different treatments and he just said, you know, to get
through this, I just have to be brave for fifteen seconds.
And I think it's actually it's a beautiful book. I've
read it a few times. The inside the card, it says,
(08:16):
dearest Tanya, thank you so much for agreeing to be
a part of my book and sharing so much of
your life and its challenges with me. This feels like
the most precious and valuable project I have ever had
the honor of working on, and I have no doubt
your wise words and bravery will be a lifeline to
many readers. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
(08:39):
Love you always.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Mel.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
My pain is all on the inside, she points out,
there are no scars, It's just hurting and no one
can see it. So Tanya decided to mark each milestone
of her journey. Her first tattoo was the word Dad
next to a blue rose on the inside.
Speaker 6 (08:57):
Of her right reason.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
There was many times that.
Speaker 7 (09:02):
Whilst I was filming with Mel, someone looking back at
me was equally as emotional and crying like me. And
it just goes to show you, know those stories, you know,
she's not just doing it for a story like that
is obviously a part of the job, but she genuinely
has feelings and his feeling as well. And I remember
(09:24):
saying to her, you know, you know you're also getting emotional,
and She's like, the day I stopped getting emotional is
the day that I resign and I finish up, because
then it means I'm not being affected by these stories
anymore and it's not worth it.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
As part of that Sunday night program, there was another
guest on that show. Yeah, obviously it wasn't filmed at
the same time. You know, you didn't see each other, No,
but you would have watched the show. You probably watched
it live.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
I'm thinking I did.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yes, that guest on the show was Shelby, who.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Was on remand at the time, I believe.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Talk to me about how you felt about her on Telly.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
They had asked us, when I say they, the producers
of the show had asked us if we would mind
if she was involved, And at the time, I thought
it would be great get her on board because.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
I knew I knew how it would pan out. I
knew that.
Speaker 7 (10:39):
It would make her look quite guilty and that she
isn't that remorseful from what I could experience. So that's
from what I did experience with her. So I sort
of figured it'll go one of two ways. I'll either
make her look really good and she redeems herself in
(11:00):
the eyes of the public, or you'll go the way
that I think it will go and it will do
exactly what I think it is and she won't look
so great at all. And that's the way it did go.
And so when I actually saw it live on TP
just filled me with rage. Honestly, who were you with?
(11:23):
I was with my mum and my grandmother. We were
watching it live at my house in Karendale, and we
when that component came on, we just felt that she
didn't take any responsibility for the part.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Her mother was pressing her to say.
Speaker 7 (11:45):
Sorry and that's what they want to hear, and you know,
just do it and sort of move on. And you
know that you can see the body language throughout that
segment as well, and yeah, it just it made us
all very angry. Like I said, we also knew that
that's probably how it was going to turn out. She
(12:06):
had the ability to set the record straight for her,
and you know, there was one particular scene that Mel
asked her, is you know, why didn't you say anything?
Why didn't you reach out to Tanya? Why didn't you
call the police? Why didn't you just do something? And
(12:27):
she just sort of shrugs it off and goes, well,
I thought it was a big joke.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
And I think that was the part that just I
was so angry. I'm just like, that is such a.
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Blazing disregard for the whole scenario that we face, and
just she was the first person to actually get some
sort of this, some sort of information from Brittany that
we could have stopped it in its tracks there and then,
but instead it escalated way past Shelby's.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Ryan's right to have an opinion on how Shelby seemed
on TV the night that it aired in Australia, This story,
the story of Brittany murdering her granddad, is hard to
escape for the family, even on holidays overseas, the story
re is its ugly head.
Speaker 8 (13:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (13:23):
So I went to America for my thirtieth birthday. It
was a five week trip around the country to celebrate.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
I was actually in.
Speaker 7 (13:34):
Las Vegas at the time, and I was watching one
of their True Crime channels that they just have on
consistently twenty four hours a day, and a story popped
up which seemed quite familiar to me, and it actually
was a story that they had filmed in their own
account about the murder of my grandfather.
Speaker 6 (13:58):
Nothing brightens a grandparents' day more than seeing their grandchildren.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
Hi, grandfather, you do.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
In August twenty sixteen, Brittany Dwyer surprises her grandpa, eighty
one year old Robert Whitwell.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
She's welcomed in with open arms.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
I love it, she too, Grandpa, I haven't seen you
in ages.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Her grandfather was so glad to see her, it had
been so long. The tyranny of distance keeps them apart.
Robert lives in South Australia, while nineteen year old Brittany
is from the north in Queensland.
Speaker 7 (14:44):
Brittany and her grandfather had a close relationship even though
they were twelve hundred miles apart.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
They spoke, they interacted.
Speaker 7 (14:53):
The actors weren't anybody notable, but it was clearly filmed
with American people in mind to place at roles and
then a lot of the interview use and the characters
were Australian and I've chose to block out a lot
of things. So again, yeah, deep diving into that is
(15:16):
you know, it's difficult.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And how hard has that been reliving? You know, we've
spent a lot of time together talking and asking questions
that are you know, they're hard because they're going back
into the depths of Hey, what do you remember about
this time? How did you feel? Yeah, how has that
been for your own mental health over the last times
were recorded?
Speaker 7 (15:36):
Well, it's it's physically exhausting, you know, you just want
to you know, shortly after our first meeting, I went
back to the hotel room and I had to just
like get into bed and like wrap myself up, so
to speak, because you just feel like you need to
(15:57):
decompress and absorb everything you've sort of spoken about.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So, yeah, it's it's hard. I would definitely say it's hard.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
You notice we've spoken to Ryan a lot in this podcast.
It really is his account of the story. We did
reach out to others to play a part, including Shelby,
her lawyers, and other people, but we made the choice,
given the name of the show, that this was Ryan's
telling of his story. We did want to talk to Tanya,
Ryan's mum to see how she felt, and there was
(16:29):
a bit of nervousness from Ryan about what that might
look like. We decided that a good way to deal
with it might be for Ryan to chat with her
and then, with her permission, us being able to air
that call in the podcast.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
It's even more exhausting for her so to speak physically
and mentally draining that once it's done, she sort of
just goes, Okay, it's done. Now, I don't want to
do it anymore. So we have limited time to be
able to do that. I know that it will be
quite upsetting and hard for her to do, even just
(17:06):
an informal chat like that. I mean, her and I
talk about the situation a lot, but I sort of
allow her to lead the conversation in that and talk
about what she wants to talk about.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
At that time.
Speaker 8 (17:18):
I guess, now, you know, talking about everything. Do you
do you still think about her? Now?
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Like?
Speaker 8 (17:27):
How often do you do you think about Oh?
Speaker 9 (17:30):
Every day? Every single day? I think about it.
Speaker 8 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean I'm the same. I can say that
I think every single day. At some point in the
day I think about it, and people ask me, you know,
are you angry or are you are you do forgive
her and am every day is different? Do you find that?
Speaker 9 (17:49):
No, I'm still at the I remember I was really
angry in the beginning and been sad, and you go
through different emotions, but I'm still I still have hopes
that we will talk one day and she will fill
in the blanket for me. I mean, she's going to
(18:09):
be forty when she gets out of jail, so you know,
that's not really that old, so she's still got, you know,
a few years to live after that, and I mean
maybe Grandma won't be around then, or all her grandparents
and I might be. And I don't know if she'll
(18:32):
continue to live in Adelaide or if she'll move back
up here or whatever. But I am hoping that we
will talk one day.
Speaker 8 (18:43):
I mean that's even depends on if she gets the
role so that she can get life. So she has
to apply for the role at that time to see
if you get out. But I guess after you know,
you are hopeful that you've talk. Do you think that
would leave lead into forgiveness?
Speaker 9 (19:03):
Not one business? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know about
the forgiveness. I don't know if I can ever forget,
because this is just I didn't ever think that anyone
could turn my world upside down. You know, I was strong,
independent woman before, and I didn't think anyone could ever
(19:27):
flit my world around like it did. But yeah she did.
And yeah, there's a lot of a lot of hurt
in the heavy hearts.
Speaker 8 (19:39):
Yeah, and how do you feel about it all? Now?
Speaker 9 (19:46):
I take each day as it comes. You know, you're
always going to have bad days when it's an anniversary
or Father's Day or Dad's poppy birthday and things like that.
But I've learnt to keep myself busy and you know,
(20:08):
I'll go out that day so the day goes faster
and keep my mind occupied and things like that. You know,
knowing that Brittany's birthday is coming up soon and things
like that. It's always on my mind. But then the
day comes and it's like, you know, it's a little
bit easier than last year or the year before and
(20:32):
things like that. If you do learn to cope year
after year.
Speaker 8 (20:38):
I still find all the anniversary is pretty difficult that
I try to. Yeah, I stay busy or I'll work
from home and I try to. I guess, if like
Pop his birthday and I guess, you know, the day
he passed away, I'll try to like light a candle
and make sure that I really think of him. I
think Brittany's birthday is probably actually the hardest for me
(21:02):
because it's crazy to think, you know, the age that
she is at now, and she went in and you know,
she was just shy of like, I think she's just
her nineteen when she went in and was arrested, and
now you know, she's only five years behind me, so
you know, she's getting up there in age, and it's
(21:22):
just crazy that this whole, her whole life is gone.
Speaker 9 (21:28):
And I do wonder what kind of person she is
now because there's where she is. She toughened up and
hardened up. And yeah, there's a lot of questions to
be answered.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, definitely, Why did you want to do a podcast?
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Now?
Speaker 7 (21:53):
You know, it's one of those things that will always
be with me. You know, there's no escaping it.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
I think being able to.
Speaker 7 (22:09):
Talk about the story from a perspective now that I've
been able to sit.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
With it for a little while.
Speaker 7 (22:15):
You know, it's been a few years now, there has
been conversations with her, and I see it in an
indifferent light compared to what it was like when I
first was going through it, so I wanted to I
wanted to sort of refresh, if that makes sense, and
(22:37):
do the podcast.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Brittany Dwyer was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder
of her proper Robert. She'll serve a minimum of twenty
years without parole. She'll be eligible for parole in twenty
thirty six. She'll be thirty nine years old. Bernadette Burns
was sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of Robert.
(23:03):
She'll serve a minimum thirteen and a half years without
parole and will be eligible for parole in twenty twenty nine.
Speaker 5 (23:12):
Miss Burns, you also must receive punishment that is fitting
and deserved. Your level of culpability is, of course, much
less than that of Missdwire. You did not intend to
have mister Whitwell killed or to suffer really serious bodily harm. However,
you engaged with, encouraged, and assisted Misdwire in the robbery,
(23:35):
contemplating that violence towards and physical harm to an eighty
one year old man might very well result. Your offending
was also very serious, although I accept the circumstances place
it towards the lower end of objective seriousness for the
crime of murder.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
Shelby Holmes was charged with aggravated serious criminal trespass and
given a nine month suspended sentence. My Sister the Murderer
was written in produced by me Jay Walkerdin from pod Shape.
Extra editing and mixing was done by Jared Young at
Chump Chump and Shad Wicker at pod Shape. Research was
(24:15):
from Melissa Gibson. Logo design from Dan a Cyborg and
I also want to say a personal thanks to Ryan
and Tanya for trusting us with this really personal story.
We have used AI in this podcast to recreate some
of the parts of the court case. Thanks for listening.
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