June 10, 2025 • 19 mins
In this two part episode, Leigh Campbell chats with fashion whisperer Lucinda Pikkat about what really makes brands "cool"! With 15 years in PR and trend forecasting (and a cult TikTok following hanging on her brand advice), Lucinda breaks down why some Aussie labels thrive while others face-plant into irrelevance.
From the resurrection of iconic Y2K brands, to why New Balance went from daggy dad shoes to must-haves, they unpack how cultural relevancy, brand identity, and a dash of rule-breaking create that coveted cool factor. Plus, Leigh loved chatting with Lucinda so much that we just had to ask her back for next weeks episode!
Mamamia's studios are furnished with thanks to Fenton & Fenton. For more head to their website here.
GET YOUR FASHION FIX:
Read Leigh Campbell's 17 lesser-known fashion brands you'll want on your radar
Follow us on Instagram
Want to shop the pod? Sign up to the Nothing To Wear Newsletter to see all the products mentioned plus more, delivered straight to your inbox after every episode.
Feedback? We’re listening! Call the pod phone on 02 8999 9386 or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au
CREDITS:
Host: Leigh Campbell
Guest: Lucinda Pikkat
Producer: Mollie Harwood & Ella Maitland
Audio Producer: Lu Hill
Video Producer: Marlena Cacciotti
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. Whoever said orange is
a new pink with seriously.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Disturbed laurels for spraying groundbreaking? Oh my god, you have
to do it. You live for fashion.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that
solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm Lee Camberllin.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Every week I chat to an expert who helps us
work out how to get more out of the clothes
you already own and tells us exactly what is and
isn't worth adding to our wardrobes. If you've ever scrolled
through TikTok and found yourself nodding along to someone brilliantly
dissecting why your favorite nostalgic brands like Bettineliano, Subie and
sassen Byte have either thrived or died, that's probably Lucinda Picat.
(01:02):
She has over fifteen years experience in PR and trend forecasting.
And Lucinda doesn't just know fashion, understands the exact DNA
of what makes a brand.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Quote unquote cool.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So rather than gatekeeping that knowledge, she has built a
following of ninety thousand people over there, offering brands completely
free pr advice that most companies would pay thousands for.
And she doesn't just talk about clothes. She unpacks culture, identity, motherhood, reinvention,
and what it means to stay relevant in this faster
than ever before world.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Her content is.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Part fashion history lesson, part strategic masterclass, and occasionally a
brutally honest reality check for labels who might have lost
their way.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But she delivers it all with the kind of insider.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Perspective that makes you feel like you're getting the gossip
over coffee with the smartest person in.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
The fashion industry.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So all that said, today we're diving into everything from
the resurrection of y UK Australian labels and what makes
today's brands actually connect with customers, and why some of
our favorite fashion memories might be left in the past.
She truly is a wealth of knowledge. Listen to Welcome
to the show. I'm very excited to talk to someone
so cool about this topic.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I don't know about that way.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
But first, there's two questions I ask every new guest,
and the first one is can you describe your style
in three words?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
So I love this question, and I've gone with country
club chic. I love the old money trend, but I
just despise the name of it. It's sort of like
we're cosplaying into this social class or like social system.
So anyways, I love the old money vibe, which I'm
trying to emulate, but it's sort of country clubs and
extension of that and a bit more of like a
(02:43):
sport infused look. So I've got the baseball cap, the
sumbers on, and I find this is how I generally
dress all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
You look comfortable, but like you, I have maybe dropped
the kids off and then you're going to go have
a spot of brunch before tennis or something.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But like, because that's what I'm always doing. I'm always
attending country clus right, we all do.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I really like that, And that is the most unique
three words someone has ever brought.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Admittedly, I do live in the country, so maybe it's
like a little bit gooded, but it is comfy. I
am literally doing that dropping the kids off. I can
get around in this, So yeah, that's what I try
and do. Country club cheeks.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Now, the theory that we think is pretty spot on
for most people.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
We've got a wardrobe of clothes, but there's ten percent
of those items, you know, also my beshoes and accessories
that we reach for more than the other stuff. So
what's in your ten percent?
Speaker 4 (03:30):
This is so true, and I'm quite conscious of this.
So at the beginning of each week, I'd be like, Okay,
I'm going to just wear shorts this week if we're
it permits and bring out like the Vimina shorts, or
this week I'm in pants.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Hence why I'm in these pants.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Wait, you plan this at the start of the week.
I just in your head.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
In my head because I've heard this theory that we
only wear ten percent, So I just want to try
and wear everything if possible. So if not, though, because
obviously it's not always like that, we rush out the door.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It is always.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Jeans, any type of jeans, any color or cut, and
a cap. I'm always in a baseball cap. Even in
here walking in today, I had a baseball cap on.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You make it look so cool. I look like Jerry Simon.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I kind of lie looking like Jerry. That was gonna
be one of my things ninety sitcom. I kind of
like that. Yeah, okay, but.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I love the rule as well, where if you've got
two out of the three things put together is how
you look put together. So outfit, makeup, hair always sort
of a considered outfit, makeup. I love makeup, and then
the hair's always fall shorty whack on a calf if
it's greazyer, wet or whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That's so clever. Yeah, I worked out. That's where I
sometimes fall down. If I'm doing like a matching set
or something, but I haven't done my hair and makeup,
I look like I'm in my pajamas. But if I
do my hair and makeup properly in weather, I shoes
and a matching set, looks great.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But once I picked up my son from school and goes, Mummy,
weren't your pajamas?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I was like, oh rude.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Today, this is such an interesting topic, and I'm really
excited to get your thoughts because we're going to dissect
what makes a fashion brand quote unquote cool. So let's
start by defining what cool means. It can mean different
things to different people. What makes a brand cool to you?
Is it they're marketing? Is it the Zeit? Is it
because they're underground? Like, what do you think if you
(05:15):
can kind of sum it up that means.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
I think back in the day, so like eighties, nineties
or before social media, so Instagram was twenty ten era
and before online, a cool brand was interpreted as a
subculture or a subset of people, right, and if they'd
create a brand, so you had your grungy your serf
culture really popped off in the nineties in Australia, that
(05:39):
sort of gritty underground where there was like a if
you know, you know essence to it, yeah, is what
made something cool, and you couldn't manufacture if you weren't
part of that group.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And it was more sort of word of mouth, you know,
which I guess social media is now to well sort of,
but you're right, you couldn't just find it out. You
couldn't reverse google image, and that's what made it kind
of cool because it was elusive.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
So I think nowadays, if you could sort of define it,
it's easy to become cool online. I guess because you've
got more exposure, you keep up with the trends, so
you can kind of tap into different areas of culture.
But it's trying to emulate that if you know, you know,
element of mystery around your brand and almost straddling like
commercial mainstream and that early adopters so balancing that strike
(06:26):
just in between before getting too commercialized.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That is so true, And it's interesting because I mean,
I asked you for three words.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
No one has ever said cool.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I don't want to look cool, but when I like
a brand or an item, in my head, I'm like, oh,
I like that, that's cool. But everyone has a different
version of what that might be. So true, but I
don't want to look.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Cool, but I know when I think something's.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Cool, yeah, that is one hundred percent like it is
sort of its own identity, Like I think cool, but
you're not buying in to say, a rebellious is like
a Vivian Westward or even like a more grungy sub cool.
You don't necessarily default it with a brand. It's almost
like an undercurrent feeling you get from a brand.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes, totally.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
And when I think of the word cool, because I'm
in my forties with a child, do you have children,
I think cool is like for the kids, but it's
not cool, just means they're doing something right. Right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
If you want to tap into it and be part
of that, it's almost being part of that brand's story.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I think so, yeah, like you identify with it somehow missing.
So what do you think of the elements that gives
a brand coolness, like effortlessness or aspirational. Do you think
(07:47):
it's marketing, Do you think it's who's wearing it? Do
you think it's I mean price point? I mean I
think a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Go Prada and Jivanci.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
They're cool because they're extensive and so people aspire, But
call doesn't mean expensive.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So what makes a brand cool? That's so hard.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I think there's a few different elements at play. I
think the first is cultural relevancy. It has to have
some sort of relevance to what's going on in the
world socially, environmentally, politically, even so looking at sort of
a bird's eye view at those macro trends of what's
going on, and if there's some relevance to your brand. So,
for example, at the moment, people are traveling more than ever.
(08:26):
Vacation and travel a huge macro trends, So is that
relevant to your brand? Or for example, fitness and wellness
has trickled down into this gorpe core, which sort of
is why Solomon's have popped off New Balance like they
didn't just come out of anywhere. It's from something that's
happening in the zeitgeist. Number one is your brand has
(08:47):
to have some sort of cultural relevance. Two is that
brand identity and a really strong brand identity. And a
lot of that comes down to your values, who you are,
what you stand for as a brand. The founders play
such a big part in this, and I've seen so
many brands. Sassin Bides an example where they sold to
Maya and then look, they just go downhill because they
didn't have Sarah Jane and Heidi Middleton. Yes, the essence
(09:10):
they lived and breeded that brand. Same with SUBI, Yes,
the Three Boys, Hot DJ, single surf guys like, yes,
they made that brand cool.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It's so true.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
And now we have more visibility and access to the
behind the scenes of brands on social media. They want
to know the who, not just the watch. Yeah, and
when you were saying, like culturally, what's happening, I think
lockdown was quite a long time ago. Thank goodness, high
hills never really recovered that much, and so as a result,
flatter shoes have never been cooler, or there hasn't never
(09:41):
been more options because yes, we still wear a heel
depending on our life. But culturally, brands went, hey, we've
got to make more flats and cool flats and yes,
trainers and it's.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Empleasing to wear that all stemmed from COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yes, thank god, and I'm glad to see to stay
in various ways.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Sort of fashion pivots with culture and depending on what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
So yeah, brand identity is a big one.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
And that's also actually like your branding and logo is cool.
I've had clients come to me and say, oh, we
want to be cool. If the product's not there, it's
not there.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
You can't force it.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I also liked your point on travel.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Living is expensive at the moment, but we do a
lot of studies here at Mamma Mia with everything that's
happening in the world and in their lives, and although
everyone's feeling the pinch, most people are prioritizing budget to travel,
and so you're seeing cool, comfy, versatile clothes that can
be worn literally on the plane but then on your trip.
And because we don't all have heaps of cash to
(10:39):
splash right now, but people are still wanting those adventures.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And then fashion is following.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
That that's exactly right, and also dressing for the vacation
as well, which I love.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh my god, me too, and I go away. I
packed ten thousand outfits and where too. But I think
I'm packing fun.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Two different persons.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I love holidayly, she's so much fun.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So you've got your brand identity, but that's different to
your actual product.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
That's more having a distinctive aesthetic.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
So one of the things I love doing with the
clients is holding up photos or images of product from
different Australian brands Age Zimmerman Gorman. You should be able
to identify that brand from one image, agreed. So having
a distinctive look is really important. So making sure you
stand out because at the moment, everything's so same, same.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And then there's dupes, which I understand because you know,
the democratization of shopping, not everyone can afford fancy things.
But let's not get the exact weird shaped button that
that brand has on a cheaper one, because there's a line.
And I love knowing that, Age, but then I see
something else, I'm like, oh, is that Asia or not?
Whereas you know alimes, at the moment, I can always
tell it's alimes, but it might be copied.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's interesting, isn't it. You want to have something different? Funny.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You also say that because I was shopping on the
Iconic last night, because of course I was, and I
was looking for a brand, but I couldn't remember what
I was like, I'll go through the eight's edge and
how many brands start with M was so popular, like
and a few other letters. Yeah, and I think I
got to you and there was like four brands and
I was like, well, I know it wasn't you because
there was a lot one of those end letters. There
(12:07):
was like four brands, and I was like, well, if
I ever started brand, I would choose that letter because
it's different. So authenticity, how do brands do that? And
also what is authenticity and how does that relate to coolness?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Being authentic?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
People can see around fake marketing and you know a
lot of the sustainability particularly some seem like lip server,
some seem really authentic.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Do you think shoppers care about authenticity?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
And you can almost feel it. It's a subconscious feeling
you get from a brand.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I hate the.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Word, like everyone says authentic be more authentic in your mind,
but it is true.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And we all sort of resonate and look for that naturally.
I find.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Yeah, I think that authenticity stems from back to that
founder and if you've got a strong purpose about why
you're doing something to start with.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
So every brand.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Just back to using Sassin Bider as an example, they
started at Portabelli Markets in London. They were selling customized
distress genes.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I saved up for my first pair of Sasain genes
and this was when Layby existed, and I had to
drive to Chatswood every few weeks to give them twenty dollars.
Oh my god, the coolness and the authenticity.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
That's exactly right. And Betina Liatos, yeah, recently, that little
yellow tag and when you know, you know, you know
that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
But what about the bigger brands?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
You know, say, our listeners are going to the local Westfield,
So it's not so much kind of the labels that
we know, but maybe more the chain stores. Can they
be authentic or can they be cool?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
They're never going to be because they're so overly commercialized.
That subculture vibe doesn't mean back to that number three,
that distinctive aesthetic or product.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Even yeah, you see.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Even is a Kmart, big W. I see their products
really popping off at the moment. It can bring them
back into that site. Guys, they're ever going.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
To be sort of that yeah brand if you has
a brand, no but an item, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
And then as a.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Woman, I don't know, there's just such a joy of
finding a great big W Gene or a came up
top because it's an affordable brand, but it's not quote
unquote cool. But if you find a cool thing in
that store, you're.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Like, everyone, I'd got this, you Camar and the pride
in that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Back in the day at school, you'd never want anyone
to know you were wearing a brand like that, But
I do you find a bargain you want everyone to know.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I remember when it was Mufty day and you're like,
what am I gonna wear? I'm gonna wear my stussy
T shirt?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Oh my gosh, oh no, well mum take me to
the shop.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Are there any fashion brands right now that you think
are really nailing this? You know they're very cool culturally
or just are on your radar.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
So Subie's really top of mind at the moment because
they showed an Australian Fashion Week this year. I think
they were founded in nineteen ninety nine two thousand, so
twenty five years later they didn't actually have relevance.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
All I was gonna say, I feel like they ebbed
and flowed. They fell off my radar. And my husband
loves a sample sale, always goes to the subie sample sale,
but in the last two years he's been going to
the non samples just shopping soupie. And we were overseas
and went into the Soupie store in London and then
I was like.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, soubie. And then I'm like, oh, soupee, It's so
cool again.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You know. I got a really great little sweat the
other day, like it's bat and that's right.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And they went through a few different changes of hands
and then they got brought out by General Pants and
they got.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Pip Edwards back on.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
So this new fresh team on board, and I think
one of their taglines at the moment is shedding our adolescence,
rebirthing essentially this new brand. But I always remember in
two thousand and one at Australian Fashion Week how they
let down two hundred live mice.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Oh my god, I remember that too.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
That's sort of like challenging norms.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I guess when I wore my sassin By Rap leggings,
that's why they would have launched the Rap probably.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
But doing things like that I just think is a
cool thing for Brown to do.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
And they've always maintained like that gritty, underground, grungy essence
despite being commercialized like you said you saw in New
York wud it Barney's or whatnot?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, So Erin Dearing I love oh, I love her.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Erin Dearing founded Triangles and it was so successful, so
she knows when we're late swimwear brand and coming out
with Deering, it's all sustainable, which you know, she would
have just made sure every I was dotted and every
team was crossed, so the sustainability fronts there. There's some
gender neutral pieces and it's almost got a bit of
a Western vibe.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I agreed, it's very unique.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
It's funny that you mentioned her because back when I
was at Cosmo, I reached out to interview Erin when
Triangle was going off, and you know that was that
neoprene swimsuit and now you look back in the bottoms
actually made you look like you wearing nappy.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But it was phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
They sold, she went off the radar and she's come
back and now she's got this incredible brand out of Melbourne,
not cheap but unique, well made, supporting an Ossie brand.
She wasn't so much the face of Triangle that she
was quite behind the scenes. But now she's used her
story of the who, not just the what.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I was going to say that I don't know much
about the daring story. I know Aaron is the story
which has made me invested in that brand.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I would probably I'd be like, oh, that's nice, I'm
not going to spend that much money, But now, because
I follow her journey, I would splurge on a piece
because of who she is and how much I admire her.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Love and do you know Grace Wells Bonna nos UK
really gorgeous tailoring even like a Wardrobe NYC esque but
UK vibe.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But and Wardrobe NYC is Christine Centenara's brand, who is
the editor of Vogue, who I worked with one hundred
years ago at Cosmo. And I think, because you know her,
you love.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Her stuff exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yeah, and what I love how.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
She created wardrobe ce you buy the wardrobe I never
really saw that.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Before Wardrobe NYC.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You literally bought a capsule, but now you can buy
things individually.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yuse not everyone has a million dollars. That's right.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I never actually bought it anything from there, but I
love that concept of buying a whole wardrobe for the season.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
There's no thinking about it. You just guarantee no, it's
going to be cool.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And mix and match. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So yeah, Wales Bonner, she's tailoring, but she does this
biracial Jamaican. They call it Afro Afrikaan, sort of like
sprinkled and inspired tailoring.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
But it's just cool.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
And she does so many collaborations with added Us, the
Wales Bonna, added Us Sombers, and it's just a cool
brand that sort of has that story behind it.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
It's different the aesthetics there.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And evolving with collabse and like not resting on their laurels.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
That's right, because brand collaborations are also such a really
good way for brands to quote unquote become cool or
be seen as cool.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I think, you know, like the high street stores like
Uniglo do that really well when they collaborate with brands
like J W Anderson or they've got Marmeco recently, and
I mean I love Unico because they've got great teath whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But I really do.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Think when they do that, H and M does it sometimes.
You know, not everyone can afford or want Alexander McQueen,
but you might be able to get H and M
Alexander McQueen something. And that's a really clever way to
fuse those two things.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's right. It's also a good way for brands that
are getting a little bit stale, like.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Not saying they ever stayal, but they're up there is
a bit stuffy and not everyone can.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Remember because we're old.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Remember Gucci was not a thing for like I reckon
maybe eight years ago. It came back, Yes, So it's
doing those partnerships with Kith or added ass to sort
of bring inject that youthfulness back into them, yes, and
gain that cultural relevancy that we were talking. Yeah, and
again that's about who, not what and partakea Vanetta. Everyone
thinks that that's a relatively new brand. It's so old
(19:37):
they got a new designer and reinvented it.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So you can come back and be cool again.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And friends, speaking of coming back and being cool, I
loved chatting to listen to so much.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
She had so many amazing things.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
To share and incredible insights, so I had to ask
her back. In next week's episode, we'll continue this chat
and get into how celebrities impact a brand's cool factor,
and we play my favorite game, Bougie.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And Budget Cool Brand Edition, So tune in next week.
See you then,
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on. Whoever said orange is
a new pink with seriously.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Disturbed laurels for spraying groundbreaking? Oh my god, you have
to do it. You live for fashion.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that
solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I'm Lee Camberllin.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Every week I chat to an expert who helps us
work out how to get more out of the clothes
you already own and tells us exactly what is and
isn't worth adding to our wardrobes. If you've ever scrolled
through TikTok and found yourself nodding along to someone brilliantly
dissecting why your favorite nostalgic brands like Bettineliano, Subie and
sassen Byte have either thrived or died, that's probably Lucinda Picat.
(01:02):
She has over fifteen years experience in PR and trend forecasting.
And Lucinda doesn't just know fashion, understands the exact DNA
of what makes a brand.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Quote unquote cool.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
So rather than gatekeeping that knowledge, she has built a
following of ninety thousand people over there, offering brands completely
free pr advice that most companies would pay thousands for.
And she doesn't just talk about clothes. She unpacks culture, identity, motherhood, reinvention,
and what it means to stay relevant in this faster
than ever before world.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Her content is.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Part fashion history lesson, part strategic masterclass, and occasionally a
brutally honest reality check for labels who might have lost
their way.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
But she delivers it all with the kind of insider.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Perspective that makes you feel like you're getting the gossip
over coffee with the smartest person in.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
The fashion industry.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So all that said, today we're diving into everything from
the resurrection of y UK Australian labels and what makes
today's brands actually connect with customers, and why some of
our favorite fashion memories might be left in the past.
She truly is a wealth of knowledge. Listen to Welcome
to the show. I'm very excited to talk to someone
so cool about this topic.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I don't know about that way.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
But first, there's two questions I ask every new guest,
and the first one is can you describe your style
in three words?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
So I love this question, and I've gone with country
club chic. I love the old money trend, but I
just despise the name of it. It's sort of like
we're cosplaying into this social class or like social system.
So anyways, I love the old money vibe, which I'm
trying to emulate, but it's sort of country clubs and
extension of that and a bit more of like a
(02:43):
sport infused look. So I've got the baseball cap, the
sumbers on, and I find this is how I generally
dress all the time.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
You look comfortable, but like you, I have maybe dropped
the kids off and then you're going to go have
a spot of brunch before tennis or something.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But like, because that's what I'm always doing. I'm always
attending country clus right, we all do.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I really like that, And that is the most unique
three words someone has ever brought.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Admittedly, I do live in the country, so maybe it's
like a little bit gooded, but it is comfy. I
am literally doing that dropping the kids off. I can
get around in this, So yeah, that's what I try
and do. Country club cheeks.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Now, the theory that we think is pretty spot on
for most people.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
We've got a wardrobe of clothes, but there's ten percent
of those items, you know, also my beshoes and accessories
that we reach for more than the other stuff. So
what's in your ten percent?
Speaker 4 (03:30):
This is so true, and I'm quite conscious of this.
So at the beginning of each week, I'd be like, Okay,
I'm going to just wear shorts this week if we're
it permits and bring out like the Vimina shorts, or
this week I'm in pants.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Hence why I'm in these pants.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Wait, you plan this at the start of the week.
I just in your head.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
In my head because I've heard this theory that we
only wear ten percent, So I just want to try
and wear everything if possible. So if not, though, because
obviously it's not always like that, we rush out the door.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It is always.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
Jeans, any type of jeans, any color or cut, and
a cap. I'm always in a baseball cap. Even in
here walking in today, I had a baseball cap on.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
You make it look so cool. I look like Jerry Simon.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
I kind of lie looking like Jerry. That was gonna
be one of my things ninety sitcom. I kind of
like that. Yeah, okay, but.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I love the rule as well, where if you've got
two out of the three things put together is how
you look put together. So outfit, makeup, hair always sort
of a considered outfit, makeup. I love makeup, and then
the hair's always fall shorty whack on a calf if
it's greazyer, wet or whatever.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
That's so clever. Yeah, I worked out. That's where I
sometimes fall down. If I'm doing like a matching set
or something, but I haven't done my hair and makeup,
I look like I'm in my pajamas. But if I
do my hair and makeup properly in weather, I shoes
and a matching set, looks great.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
But once I picked up my son from school and goes, Mummy,
weren't your pajamas?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
I was like, oh rude.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Today, this is such an interesting topic, and I'm really
excited to get your thoughts because we're going to dissect
what makes a fashion brand quote unquote cool. So let's
start by defining what cool means. It can mean different
things to different people. What makes a brand cool to you?
Is it they're marketing? Is it the Zeit? Is it
because they're underground? Like, what do you think if you
(05:15):
can kind of sum it up that means.
Speaker 4 (05:17):
I think back in the day, so like eighties, nineties
or before social media, so Instagram was twenty ten era
and before online, a cool brand was interpreted as a
subculture or a subset of people, right, and if they'd
create a brand, so you had your grungy your serf
culture really popped off in the nineties in Australia, that
(05:39):
sort of gritty underground where there was like a if
you know, you know essence to it, yeah, is what
made something cool, and you couldn't manufacture if you weren't
part of that group.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
And it was more sort of word of mouth, you know,
which I guess social media is now to well sort of,
but you're right, you couldn't just find it out. You
couldn't reverse google image, and that's what made it kind
of cool because it was elusive.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
That's exactly right.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
So I think nowadays, if you could sort of define it,
it's easy to become cool online. I guess because you've
got more exposure, you keep up with the trends, so
you can kind of tap into different areas of culture.
But it's trying to emulate that if you know, you know,
element of mystery around your brand and almost straddling like
commercial mainstream and that early adopters so balancing that strike
(06:26):
just in between before getting too commercialized.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
That is so true, And it's interesting because I mean,
I asked you for three words.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
No one has ever said cool.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I don't want to look cool, but when I like
a brand or an item, in my head, I'm like, oh,
I like that, that's cool. But everyone has a different
version of what that might be. So true, but I
don't want to look.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Cool, but I know when I think something's.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Cool, yeah, that is one hundred percent like it is
sort of its own identity, Like I think cool, but
you're not buying in to say, a rebellious is like
a Vivian Westward or even like a more grungy sub cool.
You don't necessarily default it with a brand. It's almost
like an undercurrent feeling you get from a brand.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes, totally.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
And when I think of the word cool, because I'm
in my forties with a child, do you have children,
I think cool is like for the kids, but it's
not cool, just means they're doing something right. Right.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
If you want to tap into it and be part
of that, it's almost being part of that brand's story.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
I think so, yeah, like you identify with it somehow missing.
So what do you think of the elements that gives
a brand coolness, like effortlessness or aspirational. Do you think
(07:47):
it's marketing, Do you think it's who's wearing it? Do
you think it's I mean price point? I mean I
think a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Go Prada and Jivanci.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
They're cool because they're extensive and so people aspire, But
call doesn't mean expensive.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
So what makes a brand cool? That's so hard.
Speaker 4 (08:04):
I think there's a few different elements at play. I
think the first is cultural relevancy. It has to have
some sort of relevance to what's going on in the
world socially, environmentally, politically, even so looking at sort of
a bird's eye view at those macro trends of what's
going on, and if there's some relevance to your brand. So,
for example, at the moment, people are traveling more than ever.
(08:26):
Vacation and travel a huge macro trends, So is that
relevant to your brand? Or for example, fitness and wellness
has trickled down into this gorpe core, which sort of
is why Solomon's have popped off New Balance like they
didn't just come out of anywhere. It's from something that's
happening in the zeitgeist. Number one is your brand has
(08:47):
to have some sort of cultural relevance. Two is that
brand identity and a really strong brand identity. And a
lot of that comes down to your values, who you are,
what you stand for as a brand. The founders play
such a big part in this, and I've seen so
many brands. Sassin Bides an example where they sold to
Maya and then look, they just go downhill because they
didn't have Sarah Jane and Heidi Middleton. Yes, the essence
(09:10):
they lived and breeded that brand. Same with SUBI, Yes,
the Three Boys, Hot DJ, single surf guys like, yes,
they made that brand cool.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
It's so true.
Speaker 2 (09:20):
And now we have more visibility and access to the
behind the scenes of brands on social media. They want
to know the who, not just the watch. Yeah, and
when you were saying, like culturally, what's happening, I think
lockdown was quite a long time ago. Thank goodness, high
hills never really recovered that much, and so as a result,
flatter shoes have never been cooler, or there hasn't never
(09:41):
been more options because yes, we still wear a heel
depending on our life. But culturally, brands went, hey, we've
got to make more flats and cool flats and yes,
trainers and it's.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Empleasing to wear that all stemmed from COVID.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yes, thank god, and I'm glad to see to stay
in various ways.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
Sort of fashion pivots with culture and depending on what's
going on.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
So yeah, brand identity is a big one.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
And that's also actually like your branding and logo is cool.
I've had clients come to me and say, oh, we
want to be cool. If the product's not there, it's
not there.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
You can't force it.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
I also liked your point on travel.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Living is expensive at the moment, but we do a
lot of studies here at Mamma Mia with everything that's
happening in the world and in their lives, and although
everyone's feeling the pinch, most people are prioritizing budget to travel,
and so you're seeing cool, comfy, versatile clothes that can
be worn literally on the plane but then on your trip.
And because we don't all have heaps of cash to
(10:39):
splash right now, but people are still wanting those adventures.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And then fashion is following.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
That that's exactly right, and also dressing for the vacation
as well, which I love.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Oh my god, me too, and I go away. I
packed ten thousand outfits and where too. But I think
I'm packing fun.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Two different persons.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I love holidayly, she's so much fun.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
So you've got your brand identity, but that's different to
your actual product.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
That's more having a distinctive aesthetic.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
So one of the things I love doing with the
clients is holding up photos or images of product from
different Australian brands Age Zimmerman Gorman. You should be able
to identify that brand from one image, agreed. So having
a distinctive look is really important. So making sure you
stand out because at the moment, everything's so same, same.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
And then there's dupes, which I understand because you know,
the democratization of shopping, not everyone can afford fancy things.
But let's not get the exact weird shaped button that
that brand has on a cheaper one, because there's a line.
And I love knowing that, Age, but then I see
something else, I'm like, oh, is that Asia or not?
Whereas you know alimes, at the moment, I can always
tell it's alimes, but it might be copied.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's interesting, isn't it. You want to have something different? Funny.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You also say that because I was shopping on the
Iconic last night, because of course I was, and I
was looking for a brand, but I couldn't remember what
I was like, I'll go through the eight's edge and
how many brands start with M was so popular, like
and a few other letters. Yeah, and I think I
got to you and there was like four brands and
I was like, well, I know it wasn't you because
there was a lot one of those end letters. There
(12:07):
was like four brands, and I was like, well, if
I ever started brand, I would choose that letter because
it's different. So authenticity, how do brands do that? And
also what is authenticity and how does that relate to coolness?
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Being authentic?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
People can see around fake marketing and you know a
lot of the sustainability particularly some seem like lip server,
some seem really authentic.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Do you think shoppers care about authenticity?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (12:35):
And you can almost feel it. It's a subconscious feeling
you get from a brand.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
I hate the.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Word, like everyone says authentic be more authentic in your mind,
but it is true.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And we all sort of resonate and look for that naturally.
I find.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Yeah, I think that authenticity stems from back to that
founder and if you've got a strong purpose about why
you're doing something to start with.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
So every brand.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
Just back to using Sassin Bider as an example, they
started at Portabelli Markets in London. They were selling customized
distress genes.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
I saved up for my first pair of Sasain genes
and this was when Layby existed, and I had to
drive to Chatswood every few weeks to give them twenty dollars.
Oh my god, the coolness and the authenticity.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
That's exactly right. And Betina Liatos, yeah, recently, that little
yellow tag and when you know, you know, you know
that's right.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
But what about the bigger brands?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
You know, say, our listeners are going to the local Westfield,
So it's not so much kind of the labels that
we know, but maybe more the chain stores. Can they
be authentic or can they be cool?
Speaker 4 (13:39):
They're never going to be because they're so overly commercialized.
That subculture vibe doesn't mean back to that number three,
that distinctive aesthetic or product.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Even yeah, you see.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Even is a Kmart, big W. I see their products
really popping off at the moment. It can bring them
back into that site. Guys, they're ever going.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
To be sort of that yeah brand if you has
a brand, no but an item, yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
And then as a.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Woman, I don't know, there's just such a joy of
finding a great big W Gene or a came up
top because it's an affordable brand, but it's not quote
unquote cool. But if you find a cool thing in
that store, you're.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Like, everyone, I'd got this, you Camar and the pride
in that.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:18):
Back in the day at school, you'd never want anyone
to know you were wearing a brand like that, But
I do you find a bargain you want everyone to know.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I remember when it was Mufty day and you're like,
what am I gonna wear? I'm gonna wear my stussy
T shirt?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Oh my gosh, oh no, well mum take me to
the shop.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Are there any fashion brands right now that you think
are really nailing this? You know they're very cool culturally
or just are on your radar.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
So Subie's really top of mind at the moment because
they showed an Australian Fashion Week this year. I think
they were founded in nineteen ninety nine two thousand, so
twenty five years later they didn't actually have relevance.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
All I was gonna say, I feel like they ebbed
and flowed. They fell off my radar. And my husband
loves a sample sale, always goes to the subie sample sale,
but in the last two years he's been going to
the non samples just shopping soupie. And we were overseas
and went into the Soupie store in London and then
I was like.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Oh, soubie. And then I'm like, oh, soupee, It's so
cool again.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
You know. I got a really great little sweat the
other day, like it's bat and that's right.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And they went through a few different changes of hands
and then they got brought out by General Pants and
they got.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Pip Edwards back on.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
So this new fresh team on board, and I think
one of their taglines at the moment is shedding our adolescence,
rebirthing essentially this new brand. But I always remember in
two thousand and one at Australian Fashion Week how they
let down two hundred live mice.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Oh my god, I remember that too.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
That's sort of like challenging norms.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I guess when I wore my sassin By Rap leggings,
that's why they would have launched the Rap probably.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
But doing things like that I just think is a
cool thing for Brown to do.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
And they've always maintained like that gritty, underground, grungy essence
despite being commercialized like you said you saw in New
York wud it Barney's or whatnot?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Yeah, So Erin Dearing I love oh, I love her.
Speaker 4 (16:15):
Erin Dearing founded Triangles and it was so successful, so
she knows when we're late swimwear brand and coming out
with Deering, it's all sustainable, which you know, she would
have just made sure every I was dotted and every
team was crossed, so the sustainability fronts there. There's some
gender neutral pieces and it's almost got a bit of
a Western vibe.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
I agreed, it's very unique.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
It's funny that you mentioned her because back when I
was at Cosmo, I reached out to interview Erin when
Triangle was going off, and you know that was that
neoprene swimsuit and now you look back in the bottoms
actually made you look like you wearing nappy.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But it was phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
They sold, she went off the radar and she's come
back and now she's got this incredible brand out of Melbourne,
not cheap but unique, well made, supporting an Ossie brand.
She wasn't so much the face of Triangle that she
was quite behind the scenes. But now she's used her
story of the who, not just the what.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
That's right.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
I was going to say that I don't know much
about the daring story. I know Aaron is the story
which has made me invested in that brand.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I would probably I'd be like, oh, that's nice, I'm
not going to spend that much money, But now, because
I follow her journey, I would splurge on a piece
because of who she is and how much I admire her.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:28):
Love and do you know Grace Wells Bonna nos UK
really gorgeous tailoring even like a Wardrobe NYC esque but
UK vibe.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
But and Wardrobe NYC is Christine Centenara's brand, who is
the editor of Vogue, who I worked with one hundred
years ago at Cosmo. And I think, because you know her,
you love.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Her stuff exactly.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Yeah, and what I love how.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
She created wardrobe ce you buy the wardrobe I never
really saw that.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Before Wardrobe NYC.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
You literally bought a capsule, but now you can buy
things individually.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yuse not everyone has a million dollars. That's right.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
I never actually bought it anything from there, but I
love that concept of buying a whole wardrobe for the season.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
There's no thinking about it. You just guarantee no, it's
going to be cool.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
And mix and match. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (18:11):
So yeah, Wales Bonner, she's tailoring, but she does this
biracial Jamaican. They call it Afro Afrikaan, sort of like
sprinkled and inspired tailoring.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
But it's just cool.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
And she does so many collaborations with added Us, the
Wales Bonna, added Us Sombers, and it's just a cool
brand that sort of has that story behind it.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
It's different the aesthetics there.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
And evolving with collabse and like not resting on their laurels.
Speaker 4 (18:37):
That's right, because brand collaborations are also such a really
good way for brands to quote unquote become cool or
be seen as cool.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
I think, you know, like the high street stores like
Uniglo do that really well when they collaborate with brands
like J W Anderson or they've got Marmeco recently, and
I mean I love Unico because they've got great teath whatever.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
But I really do.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Think when they do that, H and M does it sometimes.
You know, not everyone can afford or want Alexander McQueen,
but you might be able to get H and M
Alexander McQueen something. And that's a really clever way to
fuse those two things.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
That's right. It's also a good way for brands that
are getting a little bit stale, like.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Not saying they ever stayal, but they're up there is
a bit stuffy and not everyone can.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Remember because we're old.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Remember Gucci was not a thing for like I reckon
maybe eight years ago. It came back, Yes, So it's
doing those partnerships with Kith or added ass to sort
of bring inject that youthfulness back into them, yes, and
gain that cultural relevancy that we were talking. Yeah, and
again that's about who, not what and partakea Vanetta. Everyone
thinks that that's a relatively new brand. It's so old
(19:37):
they got a new designer and reinvented it.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So you can come back and be cool again.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
And friends, speaking of coming back and being cool, I
loved chatting to listen to so much.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
She had so many amazing things.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
To share and incredible insights, so I had to ask
her back. In next week's episode, we'll continue this chat
and get into how celebrities impact a brand's cool factor,
and we play my favorite game, Bougie.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And Budget Cool Brand Edition, So tune in next week.
See you then,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.