November 12, 2024 • 30 mins
Empire Silhouette Dresses That Suit Everyone
Facing perimenopause and menopause is a stage we all reach eventually. For a full exploration, Holly Wainwright’s podcast Mid offers an insightful deep dive into the topic.
This week, however, we’re zeroing in on how these changes affect our bodies—and how our wardrobe choices can help us adapt. Leigh Campbell is joined by stylist and colour expert Kim Crowley to discuss how our body shapes naturally evolve during this time and how to dress in a way that complements these shifts, embracing the changes rather than resisting them.
Want to shop the pod? Sign up to the Nothing To Wear Newsletter to see all the products mentioned plus more, delivered straight to your inbox after every episode.
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CREDITS:
Host: Leigh Campbell
Guest: Kim Crowley
Producer: Grace Rouvray
Audio Producer: Tegan Sadler
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges the
traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is
recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Whoever said orange is a new pink with seriously disturved
laurels for spraying groundbreaking? Oh my god, you have to
do it. You live for fashion.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that
solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Lee Campbell,
and every week I talk to an expert who helps
us work out how to get more out of the
clothes we already own and tells us exactly what is
and importantly what isn't worth adding to our wardrobes. We
will all face it eventually, perimenopause and menopause. As I
(00:55):
enter my own experience, I'm learning just how many symptoms
can come along with the transition for a full rundown
on perimenopause and menopause and this whole life stage. I
could not recommend more. Hollywayen WRTS podcast mid deep dive
on that whole life stage. Here, though, we're focusing on
how these changes impact our body. Because there's a body
(01:16):
type and a body shape, and hormones like to mess
with all of that, and in turn that might change
our fashion choices. I've brought back stylist and color expert
Kim Crowley to explain how our body shapes evolve and
how we can dress in harmony with these changes rather
than fighting against them. So, Kim, first you came and
blew our mind with color. Now we're going to talk
(01:37):
about body shapes, particularly how they relate to dressing for
perimenopause and menopause. I am at the opening cave of
tunnel of perity and I'm feeling all kinds of ways.
So you want to talk about how our bodies change,
how to understand our body shape, how to dress for that,
what flattering even means. So when we say flattering, because
(01:58):
things have changed a lot and language is changing in
the industry, which is good. Absolutely talk to me about shapes, silhouettes,
tell me everything you know.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We might have a hero up. But I do premise
this chat by saying that I have these conversations with
menopausal women, but it's all the dressing strategies and concepts
are relevant for any woman who's struggling to flatter her body,
to work out what she feels good in she feels exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Because Maya talks a lot about when she started to
go through menopause. She said, her body is trying to
become a circle.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yes that, yes, absolutely, that blob, that circle, that rounding,
that's what we're going to get to. So we're gonna
hover over that body shape quite a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, gosh, we've got a lot to look forward to,
don't we. All right, so can you begin by describing
the terms or the different body shapes for women, because
back when I worked in magazines, gosh, there was apples
and peers, and yeah, you're probably bringing the perspective of
creating clothes for women.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Exactly, and the different shapes of women. And that's why
being able to give some guidelines around body type is
brilliant because then it helps with the kind of guidelines
to what will suit one shape versus another, because obviously
we're all different. Yes, So generally there's five different female
body types which are often compared to fruit au, geometric
shapes and all of the beautiful things that we're compared
to as women. Yes, however, I have a sixth which
(03:15):
we'll talk about as well as we kind of go through.
But the way I measure body type is much more
by I rather than with the tape measure.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
That gets very scientific and also you can sometimes just
don't feel great getting out the measuring table.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, I don't put a measure tacher in a body's body.
But basically the way I measure is to compare our
bodies horizontally, Okay, on the horizontal and then on the vertical,
like as if I was lying down you mean looking, yes,
looking outside to side, Okay, So horizontally, that's about our
two widest parts we might have as women. So number
(03:48):
one is shoulder and orbust, so this upper region as
I call it, and then number two is hip and
or thight lower region as I call it, And that's
how I'll refer to upper region body lower region, Okay.
And our body type is how balanced or unbalanced those
two areas are. That's a lot of what basically when
we're judging it and we're trying to define it, that's
(04:08):
what we're kind of looking at.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So women can kind of work this out by looking
in the mirror and figuring and nickers in the swimmers
or something.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
No tape measure ideally in your undies ideally because they're
flatter generally, Yeah, you can get a bit more of
a kind of understanding, okay, And often we get confused
because a lot of female body types are a combination
of two, and that's when it gets complicated.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And or has changed. So you used to be this,
now your body's this one, and that's why the clothes
you used to love don't feel the same.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And this is why it's hard, because we might have
nailed what we used to be, but oh yeah, I've
got this look, and then fashion changes, or our body changes,
or our likes and dislikes changes, all of them exactly,
all at the same time. It feels like over the
same week, and then you're coming out there and going, oh,
got nothing to wear exactly. That's what you're here for exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay. So we're going to learn how to work out
our proportions and then work out what makes us feel great.
Can you kick things off with the first body type?
So a rectangle slash athletic? Yes, what is this?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So this is when you're pretty balanced from your top
region to your bottom region and with very little curved
through your body, so you resemble more of a rectangle
basically from shoulder to hip. Generally you're pretty lean. You
don't tend to put on weight very easily, otherwise known
as an ectomorph, and this is actually one of the
most common body types.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, okay, interesting triangle, rectangle, Sorry, tangle, I'm not very
good with my shapes. What's number two? Am I getting
ahead of myself?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Inverted triangle? That is exactly the next one inverted, So
inverted triangle, so the point is at the bottom. So
an upside down capital a.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, So this is when you're broadest at your top region,
then you taper towards your hip and thigh, otherwise known
as a mesomorph. You want to get scientific, but we
don't have to. You can have a tendency to feel
top heavy because your shoulder and your bust is your
widest part. Generally your leg's your best feature, so that's
often what we want to kind of show off.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Okay, Yeah, that's a upside down triangle. N three A pair. Okay,
so appair a lot of women appears quite a lot
of women, Are you know, raproductive stuff happening?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yes, But the thing is we're not often as big
or as heavy down there as often we might think.
So sometimes we feel heavy down there, but actually when
we look at ourselves. I'm not actually you're not a
pair because when you look in front of the mirror,
your shoulder and your hip or thigh actually balance out beautifully.
Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yes, but no, I want to take all my clothes
off a look in the mirror, but I won't right now.
But this is interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Often they can be a lot more balanced than we think. Okay, yeah,
it's really interesting. Okay, So a pair is more She's
basically the complete opposite to number two, opposite to the
inverted triangle. She is more of a capital a shape.
She is heavier around the thigh and the bottom, and
then tapers towards the shoulder. Okay, So basically, lots of
(06:55):
my pear shapes are very slim waists in comparison to
their widest parts, so they're often emphasizing that waist. And
then they have a beautiful curve out and over the hip.
So you see them and they just look very feminine
and quite gorgeous. We're looking at a horizontal, but we're
also looking at a vertical. What I mean by that
when I'm talking vertical is your torso length versus your
leg length.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Okay, and kind of cutting out body in half exactly
the top and then the bottom.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Exactly, so it's about four had lengths on the top
and then four on the bottom. Okay. And so basically
what generally happens as a pair, if you're putting most
of your weight on on your bottom of body, generally
that's where you're the shortest. So often my pairs will
have longer torsos, and then because they have shorter legs,
that's where they'll put on their weight. Okay, does that
make sense? And that's often the case. Obviously I'm generalizing.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
A bit, yea.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
If we've got a longer torso we're spreading out our
weight over a longer space, and our bottom of body
is our shortest, and that's where we put on weight,
and we feel heavier in those areas.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Okay. So what's number four is.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
An hour glass? Okay, because when we're talking about our glass,
our glasses, when we're basically two triangles, comes in at
the waist. So basically her top region is a similar
dress sizes to the bottom region, but curving in considerably
at the waist.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So if we use like the old school measurement of
defining an outlage. You have to be something I think
it's nine inches or something different between.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
There was like specific measurements. Oh yes, wow, that's very prescriptive.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, exactly exactly, and because you know, back along it
might have been that obviously, you know, we were particular shapes.
But nowadays, I mean, diet has changed, the way we
live has changed a lot. So that's why I mean
more often a combination of two.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah. Yeah, you know, we're celebrating individuality in exactly fully
putting everyone in these buckets. But this is a general guide.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Absolutely, and we kind of need guides in a way
to be able to put guidelines because a lot of
my pairs might not feel very comfortable in a pencil skirt, yes,
but they would feel more happy in an a line
skirt that works with their beautiful body shapes.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Sure, does that make sense totally? So it helps cut
out a lot of the clutter to start with. And
you start looking for particular shapes and you think you're
going to feel good in.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's all about flipping script. It's about emphasizing and enjoying
our best bits rather than going, oh my worst bit
is this, and I'm do you know what I mean,
we're flipping it and thinking, actually, I love my long
legs for example, with an inverted triangle for example, And
so they'll enjoy that and they'll wear and buy garments
that emphasize that, and it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Just helps to go shopping or once you know this information,
reassess what's in your order and you're like, oh, that's
why those.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Exactly, because it's actually putting a bit of science around it,
and why those geometric shapes. Although I hate, you know,
using a lot of those fruit and the shapes, it
kind of does give us a visual and then you
can kind of understand what you put the science behind it,
and it will makes sense. Ah, that's why I go.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
For that neckliine exactly. I've avoided that exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So a lot of my inverted triangles that feel broader
across their shoulder. I think it is an amazing thing.
Your look is stronger and all the rest of it.
But they might not want to look even wider, so
they avoid puffs in their sleeves, they avoid heavy shoulder.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But perhaps I haven't really even known why they're drawn
to certain Okay, yes, because it's important, I guess also
to point out that these shapes can any size, size
six can be size twenty six. Size.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Not about size at all. You know what I do
here and really upsets me is a lot of women
come to me and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, but
I'm a size twenty. I'm like, why are you apologizing
to me? I don't care what size you are. Don
I just care that you know how to wear the
clothes that are meant for you, because certain clothes aren't
meant for you. It's the same mccolor.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I just know how to find stuff that makes it
feel absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I want to introduce you to brands. I want to
introduce to stiles. I want to introduce you to fabrics, cuts,
and also little design details that mean that you're gonna
love and wear this garment.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And look forward to getting rinkly exactly. Not about size.
I like that size at all. Flattering. We hear this
is very flattering on this person that person. Flattering is
an interesting word and it's been evaluated because I could
(11:08):
wear a jar and puffy balloon shape. That's not quote
unquote flattering. If it makes me feel fabulous, yep, I
feel confident. I go about my day or my vent
or whatever, and that's good. So what are your thoughts
on the word flattering while we're here.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think that's a really really interesting word. The way
I define two kind of looks that gen and I
deal with and I encourage women to dress into is
either flattering, so flattering your body shape. So once you
understand your best bits, let's emphasize them, let's go for
it and let's make a real thing of showing them off,
or we do fashion. Often fashion can be more oversized,
it can be baggier clothes, it can be for example,
(11:44):
oversized blazers, right right, Go for fashion or go for flattering.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So you'll find out what that particular client's trying to achieve, Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Exactly, and we'll put them on this makeshift barometer, right,
flattering at one end, fashion at the other. Yeah, but
when we start playing with clothes and we're creating looks
that aren't flattering us our shape, you know, they don't
show off how beautiful, button waste and whatever, and they're
not fashion either. They're mediocre. They're the ones it's down
the middle and they're boring. And so it's really easy
(12:12):
because if you if.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
You're trying to strike both and you're striking nothing or
you don't really know.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, exactly exactly, you're not. Yeah, you're trying to strike
both because sometimes there's things that are flattering and fashion
like a white sneaker, Right, how has that been in fashion?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Ye? You're going to use them amately quote unquote cool.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, and they work for everybody. You know, we wear
them daily. They're comfortable, they tick so many boxes. So
that's something that's flattering and fashionable. Okay, but often things
are one or the other. And when we're throwing on
that old gray oversized top that because we're not really
sure what to wear with, you know, we've often put
on a bit of weight. That's the time when we're like, oh,
feel a bit nah in this? Yeh, feel a bit mediocre.
(12:49):
We look at ourselves in the mirror. And I mentioned
this on you know, our shopping podcast Spiral, where we
look in the mirror like, oh, feel a bit nah
in this? I think I'm putting on weight, And we
wear the garment that makes us look like we've put
on weight. So we look at ourselves in the mirror like, oh,
don't feel great, I'm going to exist on small. It's
just we shrink back exactly. We cower, we don't wn't
(13:10):
stand up, We're not you know, and all that internal
narrative is different because we're looking at ourselves and it's
validating the fact that we might have put me and
we might all that's fine, but we'd want to dress
to enjoy our body rather than cover it in a
big blanket or sheet that often we do soon as
we put on a bit of weight. And that's what's
really interesting about the menopause side of.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Things, because traditionally women do put on weight, and particularly
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
But putting on something that is so big and swamps
us is the worst thing you can do for your confidence. Yeah, okay,
the trouble this.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Is where I think a lot of women just don't
know what to do at this live state. Absolutely back
to our glass. I mean, I'm thinking Marilyn Monroe exactly
whether or not that's achieved naturally or not. How many
of us are actual hour glasses?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
A very small amount, so only about nine percent, if
you get all scientific, is about nine percent. I mean,
it's ridiculously small. But as I said, I just look
at a woman. If she's balanced from her top region
to her bottom, and she curves the significantly at the waist.
She can't be a size six, shedn't be a size
twenty six.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Don't care. But if there's not that curve in them mi,
while she's a rectangle exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, what's really interesting. Right when I first started spending
obviously more time in fitting rooms with women, I was
putting different shapes on different women. Can be tool, you
can be fritique. That's the other part of this conversation,
which complicates our body shape and our body type. But
what I was putting on a lot of the time
was actually our glass shape. So basically pyramid on the
bottom and then upside down pyramid on the top. Okay,
(14:35):
in terms of say a dress, so you've got a
dressed maybe with a bit of a puff sleeve. You've
got a beautiful bit of fit under the bust, and
then it comes out again an a shape at the hem.
And a lot of my clients, and a lot of
them don't feel that comfortable with their body, and they're
really trying to seek out what would work better someone
more confident. Absolutely, there's a range, But often i'd put
an hourglass dress shape on a client and they would
(14:57):
look up and look in the mirror and oh and
like look themselves up exactly. Oh, I like what I
look like in this? What have you done? And I'm like,
I've just put an hourglass shaped dress on you, So
let me talk you through the science. And I kind
of talk them through and that oh oh yeah, the
colors is coming. It might take too. I love it.
What shoes can I wear? Oh? How can I access? Right? Oh?
This is great? What's the jacket? And suddenly they're like,
(15:19):
something fits me, something makes me feel fantastic, And it's
that old school hourglass shape. And I was really shocked
to think when you know, because I thought we'd moved
on from this, but what it feels like we haven't
with a lot of the women I see that is
still such a beautiful, powerful shape, is feminine, and it's.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
It's interest terrible fashion so oversize and like kind of
androgynous at the moment. Yeah, parts of the fashion world that, yes,
we forget that sometimes going back to something that's quite
unquite flattering, and by that we mean you feel fabulous
in it? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you know, a
timeless in a way.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Because it's always going to fit your body and that's
always going to make you feel good. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And so it's interesting with the oversized thing. You know,
a lot of my cents are right. I'm experimented with
over sized blazers. They look really cool. But then they
took a photo of themselves, like, oh my god, I
look like a tent. Yeah, but your body's not a tent.
It's the garment that's the tent.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, stop, glean, go back to flattering. Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
But because they see a tent like thing on themselves,
they think they've got that big to look more like
a ten. Ye know, you've got a gorgeous body under there,
doesn't matter what size is, but it's still gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But the tent you're putting on, you can take that off.
You can choose, you see what I mean totally?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Okay, let's talk about the fifth body type, an apple
or a circle, because I feel like as we head
into menopause, this is what a lot of women feel
like their body is morphing into.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That's why I put it at the end, because a
lot of us feel like there is a real rounding
of the body. And it's so interesting because a lot
of my clients, regardless of their body type. So body
type is what our genetics are. Body shape is often
the shape that we think we are, depending on the
clothes we're wearing. Interesting, that's the way I define them.
Body type is one thing. Body shape. Do you see
(16:56):
what I do?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I do I do?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Because you are the shape you put on around.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Our body critically and trying to hide massively. You see
you look in the mirror your undis, which sounds daunting,
and you go, I want to hide. I want to
hide that instead of actually really like rashold, really like
I've got a really great rack.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Exactly, exactly exactly, That's exactly what it's about.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So the apple, Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
When we're going a bit more rounded, So basically you
know that's often our bust and our tummy, which, regardless
of what body top we are, often we are going
to put on a bit of weight through our middle
as we age. It's hormones and all those things.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, it's going to happen to all of us, yes,
but it's.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
How we feel about becoming a bit rounder. And what's
really interesting, A lot of my can't say, Kim help me,
I've lost my waist. Okay, you haven't lost your waist
if you're becoming more apple, your waist has just moved
up under your bust. It's empire line, you know, that
kind of bit under our bust.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, so when.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
A lot of women go I've lost my femininity, I've
lost my waist, it's like, no, you haven't done.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's just moved us.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And that's a really nice way to think about it,
because that is kind of prime real estate under our bust.
But we often overlook it because we're too busy hating
on our waist. So what kind of shapes then, so
more an empire line hour glass, So basically that hour
glass shape of a try on a triangle, but with
more of a band or some definition under.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
The right, under the past. I mean, even if you're
not that, I don't want anything really tired across my
lower tell me, because I like to breathe and eat, yes,
not feel restricted.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, well a lot of the time nowly it's great.
There's so many dresses and even top styles that have
got elastic at the back that will allow you to eat,
drink and be merry. Because if you can't be merry
in your clothes, then don't get them.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It doesn't matter what size or shape you are if
you're not comfortable exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So that's why looking out for these design details, such
as a bit of elastic across the back or stretch
you fabrics just allows you through the month to always
fit in your clothes.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, I think is a really important, especially when things
are fluctuating and going great exactly. So tell me more
about Empire line because I'm finding this interesting and I'm
also having some like weird flashbacks. No, I'm fluttering, But
just like downy things I used to wear, that's sort
of formed who I think of empires. So give me more.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yes, so often they can look really good, like mister
Zimmy does lots of Empire dresses, you know, Spell does them.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You know, like a like my arms, I mean, I
like all of me. I shouldn't say that.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
But you can put a belt there if you want.
But having that shape in that garment already is really
nice because then you can just literally chuck it on.
You don't have to accessorize or overthink it.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Basically is that whether the top and pants are or separates, can.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You You can, But it's a bit harder. It's a
bit easier with the dress, but you still can it's
just getting tops with from shaping, and that's the whole point, right,
rather than wearing boxy square tops or tops that are
more trapees that are meant more for true apples that
are rounder, because a true apple is defined that basically
her tummy is her widest part. Bust. Okay, But the
(19:46):
reason I come up with a sixth body type, which
is a slim apple.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I'm trying to think of her fruit.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I don't know. It was more about client feedback rather
than you know that fashion dictates a few different body types.
But I found that a slim apple so she sits
between a circle like an apple and a rectangle, so
she holds her weight through her belly as a lot
of us do. But she's not as lean as a rectangle,
but she's not as round as an apple. Does that
make s end?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yes, yes, there's a little bit of a roundness of
the tummy, but it's not round like a circle where
we need to wear trapeze shapes. A lot of the
problem is we actually turn into slim apples, not true apples,
but we wear the clothes that belong to a true apple,
which is more trapeze, right, which is more garments that
come out from the bus to cover and skim the tummy.
(20:38):
But they have so much fabric that when you're slim
apple which many more of my clients are than a
true apple, is making us look bigger.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
With a lot of these body shapes that bras and
busts makes a big.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh my god, my difference.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, Like I can wear a bra that makes me
look like I've got bazookas, and then i can wear
a bra that makes me look like I've got nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yep, they're powerful, So talk to.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Me about bras and brass straps and all that kind
of stuff because also your boobs change in perimeniorse.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Absolutely absolutely, And actually my client I just had this morning,
we were talking through this because you know, a lot
of the brass straps that we buy are a bit
more satin because there are sometimes exactly but they slip, right,
the clips will slip, So we really need to tighten
them every so often because obviously they're going through quite
a lot every day and support exactly, so being able
to then lift them that bit, because then that lifts
(21:24):
our bus points. So your bus point is the widest
part of your bust. And if we can lift it
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Where you nipples are ye south not.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Age. Your nipples aren't always nowadays the widest.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Part of silient to close their eyes, but.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
It's but it's lifting that bust that bit through adjusting
your bras straps to shorten them so that the whole
bus lifts a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And that's where difference to sometimes when I'm just like, oh,
that's annoying, I do that, Alee. It's meant to set exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Especially when we've got a fuller bust, you have to
do that a little bit more regularly. But my god,
it changes so much of how often we feel about
ourselves because we feel perkier, but we also have released
that prime real estate under our bus that often ow waste,
that highwaist area that's no longer the slimm ist part
that used to be around, sorry, the belly button in
the slimmist part, but is now our slimmers part gone
to the underbust. Does that make sense? And so often
(22:21):
it's just choosing shapes of tops that come in just
a little bit rather than go outwards. Okay, one of
the biggest things I say to my clients, one of
the key things I talk a lot about is the
silhouette of the garment, how it fits your body rather
than swamping your body. And you know when we look
in the mirror and we're like, oh my god, I've
turned to the tent type of conversations that a lot
(22:41):
of my clients will talk to me about. It's about
garments that skim your body. Skim okay, because we think
in really binary terms. I think, don't be with fit.
It's either got.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
That's exactly what was sim oversized. Yes, but you're so right.
Sometimes the joy is in the middle and it can
still sort of fit into a trend without.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Oh totally, you can still really modern for it all.
I you know, I talk a lot about contemporary classics
a lot of the time, and then we might sprinkle
on a few edgy fashion bits. Absolutely how we can
buy that. It's absolutely up to every individual. But being
able to choose clothes that skim your body brilliant. Like,
you know, someone can't say I don't like my bottom
it's big. I'm like, your bottom is gorgeous, but you're
(23:23):
wearing low slung drop crotch pants in the wrong kind
of fabric. Yeah, So let's skim your body and I'm like,
your booty is gorgeous, and they're looking oh oh, actually,
and I've changed their underwear.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Okay, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Because if you've got a high rise pant or a
high rise skirt, you need a high rise knicker otherwise
you can see your oh okay, it's because we don't
mentally draw because we don't want to wear it, or
like the boi leg or the full brave if you're
gonna if it's skimming and you can.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Sort of see your body.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, but you don't need a spanks that's not what
it's about. That's not but we just want a bigger
knicker that sits and hugs your waist at the same
point that you're closed.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Sometimes you just feel more secure. It's almost like a
bra for your bam. Like when you've got the right Yeah,
underwear ons make everything just feel a bit more secure.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Absolutely, And a lot of us have moved up in
terms of the waistline going higher wasted, but we haven't
moved ourn nickers up. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, So everything, absolutely anything else we need to know
about perimenopause and menopause or changing body shapes before we
get into Bousian budget.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So I understand that a lot of us have very
complicated relationships with our bodies and therefore our wardrobes. But
that only intensifies as well when we might gain a
bit of weight. And I know that a lot of
clients won't love their body overnight, but to stop hating
on bits and become more body neutral, that's quite a
profound shift tidally. And there's a group of women in
the world. You know, if we could be a bit
(24:48):
happier in our clothes, it would free up a lot
of mental space. I so agree, and that is ideally
what a lot of the guidelines I give clients are for,
so that they can block out a lot of the
rubbish that's not going to work for them and start
honing in on what works for them, create a few
formulas of what they like, and then they're gold in this, say,
(25:09):
if they know they've got an outfit for every occasion
and a wardrobe is going to work with them, not
against them, and let them.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
They can stop mentally torturing themselves about their body. Particularly
changing is going to happen to all us women.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Absolutely, I think a lot of you change clothes, not
your body exactly exactly. That's exactly it, because I think
a lot of hormones rushing around our body. As soon
as we put on a bit of weight, we're like,
oh my god, oh my god, I'm so much bigger
than I am. But actually a lot of the time,
you know, dress near later thousand women, nearly all women
are a lot less round in reality than their clothes
might suggest.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
It's very expensive, how world these, Kim. I think we
have to do a part two because we haven't talked
about fabric types, and as a perimenopausal woman, I'm hot,
so that's going to have to be part two. But
I've brought bougie and budget coul fabrics that I can wear. Yes,
because I'm hot, flushing, I'm sweating at night. Yep, I'm
(26:12):
getting all those first early symptoms. But firstly, let's start
with your budget.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Okay, my budget is a Portman's denim dress and Portmans
in Forever. It's brilliant. It's this beautiful dark denim.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh that's good.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So it's got this beautiful erglass shape to it because
it's got a bit of a puff sleeve, so it's
exaggerating the shoulder a little bit more it's got beautiful
shaping and seaming down it to me, but not too
deep exactly, so beautiful flattering on the bust. It's got
the seeming that comes down, and then it's got the
stitching down the seams to really elongate the body. And
then it's got a beautiful belt and all these gold detailing.
(26:47):
I mean, it doesn't look like Portman's.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It looks like Age was like, Yeah, it's stunning in
the belt, and then you could take the belt off
and absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It's currently one hundred and fifty dollars, which is really good.
Obviously it's a bit more breathable because it's cotton. Predominantly
pop into Portmans. I haven't done Portman's real quiet as well. Yeah,
and they're doing better cotton lot. I know Portman's isn't
the most sustainable of brands, but they are doing better cotton.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
My budget is from linter Co. They're called the Linen
Simple button fly down trousers because when I really just
take it back to what I wear all the time,
it's jeans and a T shirt. So these aren't jeans.
They're coming a thousand different colors, ninety one dollars. They've
got like a little. They're kind of like a mix
between a cargo and a Chino and a jean, and
(27:28):
they're one hundred percent linen.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
They re edgy.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I love them well, they are, aren't they? But then
you could just like you chuck on a song or
you can on a heel on a cami. Yeah, that's
the dusty blue. But they've got like ten different colors,
color size extra small to triple XL brilliant, and undred
percent linen. So while I'm hot and sweaty and periman
a porsal, I'm trying to go from more natural fibers,
more so on the top, but I thought i'd bring
a natural on a bottom on the bottom as well.
(27:53):
It's a bit well, I'm shitzy in summer even when
I'm not hormonal. What's your bougie.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
It's the age version. You probably know how to pronounce
this bad age. Yes, it's the Colorado den and mini dress.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And it's also gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Version is gorgeous and it's got very similar styling. So
it's a dupe. Portman's is a dupe for the.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Pretty much Asian one is beautiful and I'll let you
finish describing it, but I reckon. The Portman one's more
flattering that buttons up almost like a denim shirt, whereas, yeah,
the other one has a bit of a v.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, a bit more open. But obviously you can open
this because it's true a shirt wrere yes and it's
got a lot of the gold detailing, so that obviously elevates.
So it means that these kind of dresses you can
wear to so many different places because it's already got
a bit of glam on it because of the gold.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Absolutely you can check that on with flats and got
a kind of a barbecue or you could dress it up.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And so this one is size four to sixteen and
the price is five hundred and twenty five, so it's
quite a lot. Obviously it's cotton, it's more breathable, but
it's beautiful. It's quite expensive.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
There's also a really good Agia outlet in Sydney, but
if you're not from my bougie isn't very expensive. So
it's from the brand Forecast. It's on the iconic Manhattan
striped cotton shirt one hundred percent cotton. So you know
how those stripey oversized men's shirts are really cool. But
see how this isn't too oversized.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yes, that's perfect.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So it's clearly for a woman's shape. I believe it's
slouching oversize, but not like you went and put your
dad's shirt on size four to sixteen and it also
comes into green. But I just love the blue stripe.
I'm just loving that with summer whites one hundred percent
cotton because I have to say, last week I wore
a synthetic long sleeve shirt. I just got to leave
(29:29):
my synthetics for the dead of winter, I think.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Or But this is what's interesting as well about why
I think a lot of women and them wearing oversize
because some of their fabric choices aren't quite right, and
so they're like, I want this armhole to sit away
from my body before I get really really honey, you're.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Going to have to do a part two on fabric.
Now we know what shapes to go for. You've already
noailed the colors. Fabrics comes next. Care your wealth of knowledge.
I appreciate you bringing all your accumulated wisdom from designing
and then styling and helping women. So thank you so
much for joy, Thank you Lee, thank you, thank you
for listening to Nothing to Wear, don't forget to sign
(30:04):
up to the Nothing to Wear newsletter. It's free and
there's a link in the show notes. And if you
want to unders send more about sizing in Australia, we've
done a whole deep dive on that. It's incredibly interesting
and I reckon you'll learn something, so there's a link
to that episode in the show notes. See you next week.
This episode was produced by Grace Roofrey, with audio production
by Lou Hill. This podcast is powered by our subscribers.
(30:27):
If you believe in independent women's media and want to
support us, a subscription to Momma Mea only costs the
price of a fancy coffee each month. There's a link
in the show notes and a big thank you to
all of our current subscribers.
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast. Mama Mia acknowledges the
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recorded on.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Whoever said orange is a new pink with seriously disturved
laurels for spraying groundbreaking? Oh my god, you have to
do it. You live for fashion.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Hello, and welcome to Nothing to Wear, the podcast that
solves fashion problems and levels up your wardrobe. I'm Lee Campbell,
and every week I talk to an expert who helps
us work out how to get more out of the
clothes we already own and tells us exactly what is
and importantly what isn't worth adding to our wardrobes. We
will all face it eventually, perimenopause and menopause. As I
(00:55):
enter my own experience, I'm learning just how many symptoms
can come along with the transition for a full rundown
on perimenopause and menopause and this whole life stage. I
could not recommend more. Hollywayen WRTS podcast mid deep dive
on that whole life stage. Here, though, we're focusing on
how these changes impact our body. Because there's a body
(01:16):
type and a body shape, and hormones like to mess
with all of that, and in turn that might change
our fashion choices. I've brought back stylist and color expert
Kim Crowley to explain how our body shapes evolve and
how we can dress in harmony with these changes rather
than fighting against them. So, Kim, first you came and
blew our mind with color. Now we're going to talk
(01:37):
about body shapes, particularly how they relate to dressing for
perimenopause and menopause. I am at the opening cave of
tunnel of perity and I'm feeling all kinds of ways.
So you want to talk about how our bodies change,
how to understand our body shape, how to dress for that,
what flattering even means. So when we say flattering, because
(01:58):
things have changed a lot and language is changing in
the industry, which is good. Absolutely talk to me about shapes, silhouettes,
tell me everything you know.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
We might have a hero up. But I do premise
this chat by saying that I have these conversations with
menopausal women, but it's all the dressing strategies and concepts
are relevant for any woman who's struggling to flatter her body,
to work out what she feels good in she feels exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Because Maya talks a lot about when she started to
go through menopause. She said, her body is trying to
become a circle.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yes that, yes, absolutely, that blob, that circle, that rounding,
that's what we're going to get to. So we're gonna
hover over that body shape quite a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Okay, gosh, we've got a lot to look forward to,
don't we. All right, so can you begin by describing
the terms or the different body shapes for women, because
back when I worked in magazines, gosh, there was apples
and peers, and yeah, you're probably bringing the perspective of
creating clothes for women.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Exactly, and the different shapes of women. And that's why
being able to give some guidelines around body type is
brilliant because then it helps with the kind of guidelines
to what will suit one shape versus another, because obviously
we're all different. Yes, So generally there's five different female
body types which are often compared to fruit au, geometric
shapes and all of the beautiful things that we're compared
to as women. Yes, however, I have a sixth which
(03:15):
we'll talk about as well as we kind of go through.
But the way I measure body type is much more
by I rather than with the tape measure.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
That gets very scientific and also you can sometimes just
don't feel great getting out the measuring table.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, I don't put a measure tacher in a body's body.
But basically the way I measure is to compare our
bodies horizontally, Okay, on the horizontal and then on the vertical,
like as if I was lying down you mean looking, yes,
looking outside to side, Okay, So horizontally, that's about our
two widest parts we might have as women. So number
(03:48):
one is shoulder and orbust, so this upper region as
I call it, and then number two is hip and
or thight lower region as I call it, And that's
how I'll refer to upper region body lower region, Okay.
And our body type is how balanced or unbalanced those
two areas are. That's a lot of what basically when
we're judging it and we're trying to define it, that's
(04:08):
what we're kind of looking at.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
So women can kind of work this out by looking
in the mirror and figuring and nickers in the swimmers
or something.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
No tape measure ideally in your undies ideally because they're
flatter generally, Yeah, you can get a bit more of
a kind of understanding, okay, And often we get confused
because a lot of female body types are a combination
of two, and that's when it gets complicated.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
And or has changed. So you used to be this,
now your body's this one, and that's why the clothes
you used to love don't feel the same.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
And this is why it's hard, because we might have
nailed what we used to be, but oh yeah, I've
got this look, and then fashion changes, or our body changes,
or our likes and dislikes changes, all of them exactly,
all at the same time. It feels like over the
same week, and then you're coming out there and going, oh,
got nothing to wear exactly. That's what you're here for exactly.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay. So we're going to learn how to work out
our proportions and then work out what makes us feel great.
Can you kick things off with the first body type?
So a rectangle slash athletic? Yes, what is this?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
So this is when you're pretty balanced from your top
region to your bottom region and with very little curved
through your body, so you resemble more of a rectangle
basically from shoulder to hip. Generally you're pretty lean. You
don't tend to put on weight very easily, otherwise known
as an ectomorph, and this is actually one of the
most common body types.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Okay, okay, interesting triangle, rectangle, Sorry, tangle, I'm not very
good with my shapes. What's number two? Am I getting
ahead of myself?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Inverted triangle? That is exactly the next one inverted, So
inverted triangle, so the point is at the bottom. So
an upside down capital a.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Okay, I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah, So this is when you're broadest at your top region,
then you taper towards your hip and thigh, otherwise known
as a mesomorph. You want to get scientific, but we
don't have to. You can have a tendency to feel
top heavy because your shoulder and your bust is your
widest part. Generally your leg's your best feature, so that's
often what we want to kind of show off.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Okay, Yeah, that's a upside down triangle. N three A pair. Okay,
so appair a lot of women appears quite a lot
of women, Are you know, raproductive stuff happening?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Yes, But the thing is we're not often as big
or as heavy down there as often we might think.
So sometimes we feel heavy down there, but actually when
we look at ourselves. I'm not actually you're not a
pair because when you look in front of the mirror,
your shoulder and your hip or thigh actually balance out beautifully.
Do you see what I mean?
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yes, but no, I want to take all my clothes
off a look in the mirror, but I won't right now.
But this is interesting.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Often they can be a lot more balanced than we think. Okay, yeah,
it's really interesting. Okay, So a pair is more She's
basically the complete opposite to number two, opposite to the
inverted triangle. She is more of a capital a shape.
She is heavier around the thigh and the bottom, and
then tapers towards the shoulder. Okay, So basically, lots of
(06:55):
my pear shapes are very slim waists in comparison to
their widest parts, so they're often emphasizing that waist. And
then they have a beautiful curve out and over the hip.
So you see them and they just look very feminine
and quite gorgeous. We're looking at a horizontal, but we're
also looking at a vertical. What I mean by that
when I'm talking vertical is your torso length versus your
leg length.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Okay, and kind of cutting out body in half exactly
the top and then the bottom.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Exactly, so it's about four had lengths on the top
and then four on the bottom. Okay. And so basically
what generally happens as a pair, if you're putting most
of your weight on on your bottom of body, generally
that's where you're the shortest. So often my pairs will
have longer torsos, and then because they have shorter legs,
that's where they'll put on their weight. Okay, does that
make sense? And that's often the case. Obviously I'm generalizing.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
A bit, yea.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
If we've got a longer torso we're spreading out our
weight over a longer space, and our bottom of body
is our shortest, and that's where we put on weight,
and we feel heavier in those areas.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Okay. So what's number four is.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
An hour glass? Okay, because when we're talking about our glass,
our glasses, when we're basically two triangles, comes in at
the waist. So basically her top region is a similar
dress sizes to the bottom region, but curving in considerably
at the waist.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
So if we use like the old school measurement of
defining an outlage. You have to be something I think
it's nine inches or something different between.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
There was like specific measurements. Oh yes, wow, that's very prescriptive.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah, exactly exactly, and because you know, back along it
might have been that obviously, you know, we were particular shapes.
But nowadays, I mean, diet has changed, the way we
live has changed a lot. So that's why I mean
more often a combination of two.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah. Yeah, you know, we're celebrating individuality in exactly fully
putting everyone in these buckets. But this is a general guide.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Absolutely, and we kind of need guides in a way
to be able to put guidelines because a lot of
my pairs might not feel very comfortable in a pencil skirt, yes,
but they would feel more happy in an a line
skirt that works with their beautiful body shapes.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Sure, does that make sense totally? So it helps cut
out a lot of the clutter to start with. And
you start looking for particular shapes and you think you're
going to feel good in.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
It's all about flipping script. It's about emphasizing and enjoying
our best bits rather than going, oh my worst bit
is this, and I'm do you know what I mean,
we're flipping it and thinking, actually, I love my long
legs for example, with an inverted triangle for example, And
so they'll enjoy that and they'll wear and buy garments
that emphasize that, and it.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Just helps to go shopping or once you know this information,
reassess what's in your order and you're like, oh, that's
why those.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Exactly, because it's actually putting a bit of science around it,
and why those geometric shapes. Although I hate, you know,
using a lot of those fruit and the shapes, it
kind of does give us a visual and then you
can kind of understand what you put the science behind it,
and it will makes sense. Ah, that's why I go.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
For that neckliine exactly. I've avoided that exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
So a lot of my inverted triangles that feel broader
across their shoulder. I think it is an amazing thing.
Your look is stronger and all the rest of it.
But they might not want to look even wider, so
they avoid puffs in their sleeves, they avoid heavy shoulder.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
But perhaps I haven't really even known why they're drawn
to certain Okay, yes, because it's important, I guess also
to point out that these shapes can any size, size
six can be size twenty six. Size.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Not about size at all. You know what I do
here and really upsets me is a lot of women
come to me and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, but
I'm a size twenty. I'm like, why are you apologizing
to me? I don't care what size you are. Don
I just care that you know how to wear the
clothes that are meant for you, because certain clothes aren't
meant for you. It's the same mccolor.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
I just know how to find stuff that makes it
feel absolutely.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
I want to introduce you to brands. I want to
introduce to stiles. I want to introduce you to fabrics, cuts,
and also little design details that mean that you're gonna
love and wear this garment.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And look forward to getting rinkly exactly. Not about size.
I like that size at all. Flattering. We hear this
is very flattering on this person that person. Flattering is
an interesting word and it's been evaluated because I could
(11:08):
wear a jar and puffy balloon shape. That's not quote
unquote flattering. If it makes me feel fabulous, yep, I
feel confident. I go about my day or my vent
or whatever, and that's good. So what are your thoughts
on the word flattering while we're here.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I think that's a really really interesting word. The way
I define two kind of looks that gen and I
deal with and I encourage women to dress into is
either flattering, so flattering your body shape. So once you
understand your best bits, let's emphasize them, let's go for
it and let's make a real thing of showing them off,
or we do fashion. Often fashion can be more oversized,
it can be baggier clothes, it can be for example,
(11:44):
oversized blazers, right right, Go for fashion or go for flattering.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
So you'll find out what that particular client's trying to achieve, Yes.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Exactly, and we'll put them on this makeshift barometer, right,
flattering at one end, fashion at the other. Yeah, but
when we start playing with clothes and we're creating looks
that aren't flattering us our shape, you know, they don't
show off how beautiful, button waste and whatever, and they're
not fashion either. They're mediocre. They're the ones it's down
the middle and they're boring. And so it's really easy
(12:12):
because if you if.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
You're trying to strike both and you're striking nothing or
you don't really know.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, exactly exactly, you're not. Yeah, you're trying to strike
both because sometimes there's things that are flattering and fashion
like a white sneaker, Right, how has that been in fashion?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Ye? You're going to use them amately quote unquote cool.
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Yeah, and they work for everybody. You know, we wear
them daily. They're comfortable, they tick so many boxes. So
that's something that's flattering and fashionable. Okay, but often things
are one or the other. And when we're throwing on
that old gray oversized top that because we're not really
sure what to wear with, you know, we've often put
on a bit of weight. That's the time when we're like, oh,
feel a bit nah in this? Yeh, feel a bit mediocre.
(12:49):
We look at ourselves in the mirror. And I mentioned
this on you know, our shopping podcast Spiral, where we
look in the mirror like, oh, feel a bit nah
in this? I think I'm putting on weight, And we
wear the garment that makes us look like we've put
on weight. So we look at ourselves in the mirror like, oh,
don't feel great, I'm going to exist on small. It's
just we shrink back exactly. We cower, we don't wn't
(13:10):
stand up, We're not you know, and all that internal
narrative is different because we're looking at ourselves and it's
validating the fact that we might have put me and
we might all that's fine, but we'd want to dress
to enjoy our body rather than cover it in a
big blanket or sheet that often we do soon as
we put on a bit of weight. And that's what's
really interesting about the menopause side of.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Things, because traditionally women do put on weight, and particularly
in the middle.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
But putting on something that is so big and swamps
us is the worst thing you can do for your confidence. Yeah, okay,
the trouble this.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Is where I think a lot of women just don't
know what to do at this live state. Absolutely back
to our glass. I mean, I'm thinking Marilyn Monroe exactly
whether or not that's achieved naturally or not. How many
of us are actual hour glasses?
Speaker 2 (13:54):
A very small amount, so only about nine percent, if
you get all scientific, is about nine percent. I mean,
it's ridiculously small. But as I said, I just look
at a woman. If she's balanced from her top region
to her bottom, and she curves the significantly at the waist.
She can't be a size six, shedn't be a size
twenty six.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Don't care. But if there's not that curve in them mi,
while she's a rectangle exactly.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, what's really interesting. Right when I first started spending
obviously more time in fitting rooms with women, I was
putting different shapes on different women. Can be tool, you
can be fritique. That's the other part of this conversation,
which complicates our body shape and our body type. But
what I was putting on a lot of the time
was actually our glass shape. So basically pyramid on the
bottom and then upside down pyramid on the top. Okay,
(14:35):
in terms of say a dress, so you've got a
dressed maybe with a bit of a puff sleeve. You've
got a beautiful bit of fit under the bust, and
then it comes out again an a shape at the hem.
And a lot of my clients, and a lot of
them don't feel that comfortable with their body, and they're
really trying to seek out what would work better someone
more confident. Absolutely, there's a range, But often i'd put
an hourglass dress shape on a client and they would
(14:57):
look up and look in the mirror and oh and
like look themselves up exactly. Oh, I like what I
look like in this? What have you done? And I'm like,
I've just put an hourglass shaped dress on you, So
let me talk you through the science. And I kind
of talk them through and that oh oh yeah, the
colors is coming. It might take too. I love it.
What shoes can I wear? Oh? How can I access? Right? Oh?
This is great? What's the jacket? And suddenly they're like,
(15:19):
something fits me, something makes me feel fantastic, And it's
that old school hourglass shape. And I was really shocked
to think when you know, because I thought we'd moved
on from this, but what it feels like we haven't
with a lot of the women I see that is
still such a beautiful, powerful shape, is feminine, and it's.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
It's interest terrible fashion so oversize and like kind of
androgynous at the moment. Yeah, parts of the fashion world that, yes,
we forget that sometimes going back to something that's quite
unquite flattering, and by that we mean you feel fabulous
in it? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you know, a
timeless in a way.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Because it's always going to fit your body and that's
always going to make you feel good. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (15:58):
And so it's interesting with the oversized thing. You know,
a lot of my cents are right. I'm experimented with
over sized blazers. They look really cool. But then they
took a photo of themselves, like, oh my god, I
look like a tent. Yeah, but your body's not a tent.
It's the garment that's the tent.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, stop, glean, go back to flattering. Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
But because they see a tent like thing on themselves,
they think they've got that big to look more like
a ten. Ye know, you've got a gorgeous body under there,
doesn't matter what size is, but it's still gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
But the tent you're putting on, you can take that off.
You can choose, you see what I mean totally?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Okay, let's talk about the fifth body type, an apple
or a circle, because I feel like as we head
into menopause, this is what a lot of women feel
like their body is morphing into.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That's why I put it at the end, because a
lot of us feel like there is a real rounding
of the body. And it's so interesting because a lot
of my clients, regardless of their body type. So body
type is what our genetics are. Body shape is often
the shape that we think we are, depending on the
clothes we're wearing. Interesting, that's the way I define them.
Body type is one thing. Body shape. Do you see
(16:56):
what I do?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
I do I do?
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Because you are the shape you put on around.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Our body critically and trying to hide massively. You see
you look in the mirror your undis, which sounds daunting,
and you go, I want to hide. I want to
hide that instead of actually really like rashold, really like
I've got a really great rack.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Exactly, exactly exactly, That's exactly what it's about.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
So the apple, Yes.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
When we're going a bit more rounded, So basically you
know that's often our bust and our tummy, which, regardless
of what body top we are, often we are going
to put on a bit of weight through our middle
as we age. It's hormones and all those things.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Yeah, it's going to happen to all of us, yes,
but it's.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
How we feel about becoming a bit rounder. And what's
really interesting, A lot of my can't say, Kim help me,
I've lost my waist. Okay, you haven't lost your waist
if you're becoming more apple, your waist has just moved
up under your bust. It's empire line, you know, that
kind of bit under our bust.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, so when.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
A lot of women go I've lost my femininity, I've
lost my waist, it's like, no, you haven't done.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It's just moved us.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
And that's a really nice way to think about it,
because that is kind of prime real estate under our bust.
But we often overlook it because we're too busy hating
on our waist. So what kind of shapes then, so
more an empire line hour glass, So basically that hour
glass shape of a try on a triangle, but with
more of a band or some definition under.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
The right, under the past. I mean, even if you're
not that, I don't want anything really tired across my
lower tell me, because I like to breathe and eat, yes,
not feel restricted.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Yeah, well a lot of the time nowly it's great.
There's so many dresses and even top styles that have
got elastic at the back that will allow you to eat,
drink and be merry. Because if you can't be merry
in your clothes, then don't get them.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
It doesn't matter what size or shape you are if
you're not comfortable exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
So that's why looking out for these design details, such
as a bit of elastic across the back or stretch
you fabrics just allows you through the month to always
fit in your clothes.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, I think is a really important, especially when things
are fluctuating and going great exactly. So tell me more
about Empire line because I'm finding this interesting and I'm
also having some like weird flashbacks. No, I'm fluttering, But
just like downy things I used to wear, that's sort
of formed who I think of empires. So give me more.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
Yes, so often they can look really good, like mister
Zimmy does lots of Empire dresses, you know, Spell does them.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
You know, like a like my arms, I mean, I
like all of me. I shouldn't say that.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
But you can put a belt there if you want.
But having that shape in that garment already is really
nice because then you can just literally chuck it on.
You don't have to accessorize or overthink it.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Basically is that whether the top and pants are or separates, can.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
You You can, But it's a bit harder. It's a
bit easier with the dress, but you still can it's
just getting tops with from shaping, and that's the whole point, right,
rather than wearing boxy square tops or tops that are
more trapees that are meant more for true apples that
are rounder, because a true apple is defined that basically
her tummy is her widest part. Bust. Okay, But the
(19:46):
reason I come up with a sixth body type, which
is a slim apple.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
I'm trying to think of her fruit.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I don't know. It was more about client feedback rather
than you know that fashion dictates a few different body types.
But I found that a slim apple so she sits
between a circle like an apple and a rectangle, so
she holds her weight through her belly as a lot
of us do. But she's not as lean as a rectangle,
but she's not as round as an apple. Does that
make s end?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yes, yes, there's a little bit of a roundness of
the tummy, but it's not round like a circle where
we need to wear trapeze shapes. A lot of the
problem is we actually turn into slim apples, not true apples,
but we wear the clothes that belong to a true apple,
which is more trapeze, right, which is more garments that
come out from the bus to cover and skim the tummy.
(20:38):
But they have so much fabric that when you're slim
apple which many more of my clients are than a
true apple, is making us look bigger.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
With a lot of these body shapes that bras and
busts makes a big.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Oh my god, my difference.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Right, Like I can wear a bra that makes me
look like I've got bazookas, and then i can wear
a bra that makes me look like I've got nothing.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yep, they're powerful, So talk to.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
Me about bras and brass straps and all that kind
of stuff because also your boobs change in perimeniorse.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Absolutely absolutely, And actually my client I just had this morning,
we were talking through this because you know, a lot
of the brass straps that we buy are a bit
more satin because there are sometimes exactly but they slip, right,
the clips will slip, So we really need to tighten
them every so often because obviously they're going through quite
a lot every day and support exactly, so being able
to then lift them that bit, because then that lifts
(21:24):
our bus points. So your bus point is the widest
part of your bust. And if we can lift it
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Where you nipples are ye south not.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Age. Your nipples aren't always nowadays the widest.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Part of silient to close their eyes, but.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
It's but it's lifting that bust that bit through adjusting
your bras straps to shorten them so that the whole
bus lifts a little bit.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
And that's where difference to sometimes when I'm just like, oh,
that's annoying, I do that, Alee. It's meant to set exactly.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Especially when we've got a fuller bust, you have to
do that a little bit more regularly. But my god,
it changes so much of how often we feel about
ourselves because we feel perkier, but we also have released
that prime real estate under our bus that often ow waste,
that highwaist area that's no longer the slimm ist part
that used to be around, sorry, the belly button in
the slimmist part, but is now our slimmers part gone
to the underbust. Does that make sense? And so often
(22:21):
it's just choosing shapes of tops that come in just
a little bit rather than go outwards. Okay, one of
the biggest things I say to my clients, one of
the key things I talk a lot about is the
silhouette of the garment, how it fits your body rather
than swamping your body. And you know when we look
in the mirror and we're like, oh my god, I've
turned to the tent type of conversations that a lot
(22:41):
of my clients will talk to me about. It's about
garments that skim your body. Skim okay, because we think
in really binary terms. I think, don't be with fit.
It's either got.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
That's exactly what was sim oversized. Yes, but you're so right.
Sometimes the joy is in the middle and it can
still sort of fit into a trend without.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
Oh totally, you can still really modern for it all.
I you know, I talk a lot about contemporary classics
a lot of the time, and then we might sprinkle
on a few edgy fashion bits. Absolutely how we can
buy that. It's absolutely up to every individual. But being
able to choose clothes that skim your body brilliant. Like,
you know, someone can't say I don't like my bottom
it's big. I'm like, your bottom is gorgeous, but you're
(23:23):
wearing low slung drop crotch pants in the wrong kind
of fabric. Yeah, So let's skim your body and I'm like,
your booty is gorgeous, and they're looking oh oh, actually,
and I've changed their underwear.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Okay, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Because if you've got a high rise pant or a
high rise skirt, you need a high rise knicker otherwise
you can see your oh okay, it's because we don't
mentally draw because we don't want to wear it, or
like the boi leg or the full brave if you're
gonna if it's skimming and you can.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Sort of see your body.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah, but you don't need a spanks that's not what
it's about. That's not but we just want a bigger
knicker that sits and hugs your waist at the same
point that you're closed.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Sometimes you just feel more secure. It's almost like a
bra for your bam. Like when you've got the right Yeah,
underwear ons make everything just feel a bit more secure.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Absolutely, And a lot of us have moved up in
terms of the waistline going higher wasted, but we haven't
moved ourn nickers up. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, So everything, absolutely anything else we need to know
about perimenopause and menopause or changing body shapes before we
get into Bousian budget.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
So I understand that a lot of us have very
complicated relationships with our bodies and therefore our wardrobes. But
that only intensifies as well when we might gain a
bit of weight. And I know that a lot of
clients won't love their body overnight, but to stop hating
on bits and become more body neutral, that's quite a
profound shift tidally. And there's a group of women in
the world. You know, if we could be a bit
(24:48):
happier in our clothes, it would free up a lot
of mental space. I so agree, and that is ideally
what a lot of the guidelines I give clients are for,
so that they can block out a lot of the
rubbish that's not going to work for them and start
honing in on what works for them, create a few
formulas of what they like, and then they're gold in this, say,
(25:09):
if they know they've got an outfit for every occasion
and a wardrobe is going to work with them, not
against them, and let them.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
They can stop mentally torturing themselves about their body. Particularly
changing is going to happen to all us women.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
Absolutely, I think a lot of you change clothes, not
your body exactly exactly. That's exactly it, because I think
a lot of hormones rushing around our body. As soon
as we put on a bit of weight, we're like,
oh my god, oh my god, I'm so much bigger
than I am. But actually a lot of the time,
you know, dress near later thousand women, nearly all women
are a lot less round in reality than their clothes
might suggest.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
It's very expensive, how world these, Kim. I think we
have to do a part two because we haven't talked
about fabric types, and as a perimenopausal woman, I'm hot,
so that's going to have to be part two. But
I've brought bougie and budget coul fabrics that I can wear. Yes,
because I'm hot, flushing, I'm sweating at night. Yep, I'm
(26:12):
getting all those first early symptoms. But firstly, let's start
with your budget.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Okay, my budget is a Portman's denim dress and Portmans
in Forever. It's brilliant. It's this beautiful dark denim.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Oh that's good.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
So it's got this beautiful erglass shape to it because
it's got a bit of a puff sleeve, so it's
exaggerating the shoulder a little bit more it's got beautiful
shaping and seaming down it to me, but not too
deep exactly, so beautiful flattering on the bust. It's got
the seeming that comes down, and then it's got the
stitching down the seams to really elongate the body. And
then it's got a beautiful belt and all these gold detailing.
(26:47):
I mean, it doesn't look like Portman's.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
It looks like Age was like, Yeah, it's stunning in
the belt, and then you could take the belt off
and absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
It's currently one hundred and fifty dollars, which is really good.
Obviously it's a bit more breathable because it's cotton. Predominantly
pop into Portmans. I haven't done Portman's real quiet as well. Yeah,
and they're doing better cotton lot. I know Portman's isn't
the most sustainable of brands, but they are doing better cotton.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
My budget is from linter Co. They're called the Linen
Simple button fly down trousers because when I really just
take it back to what I wear all the time,
it's jeans and a T shirt. So these aren't jeans.
They're coming a thousand different colors, ninety one dollars. They've
got like a little. They're kind of like a mix
between a cargo and a Chino and a jean, and
(27:28):
they're one hundred percent linen.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
They re edgy.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I love them well, they are, aren't they? But then
you could just like you chuck on a song or
you can on a heel on a cami. Yeah, that's
the dusty blue. But they've got like ten different colors,
color size extra small to triple XL brilliant, and undred
percent linen. So while I'm hot and sweaty and periman
a porsal, I'm trying to go from more natural fibers,
more so on the top, but I thought i'd bring
a natural on a bottom on the bottom as well.
(27:53):
It's a bit well, I'm shitzy in summer even when
I'm not hormonal. What's your bougie.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
It's the age version. You probably know how to pronounce
this bad age. Yes, it's the Colorado den and mini dress.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
And it's also gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Version is gorgeous and it's got very similar styling. So
it's a dupe. Portman's is a dupe for the.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Pretty much Asian one is beautiful and I'll let you
finish describing it, but I reckon. The Portman one's more
flattering that buttons up almost like a denim shirt, whereas, yeah,
the other one has a bit of a v.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, a bit more open. But obviously you can open
this because it's true a shirt wrere yes and it's
got a lot of the gold detailing, so that obviously elevates.
So it means that these kind of dresses you can
wear to so many different places because it's already got
a bit of glam on it because of the gold.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Absolutely you can check that on with flats and got
a kind of a barbecue or you could dress it up.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
And so this one is size four to sixteen and
the price is five hundred and twenty five, so it's
quite a lot. Obviously it's cotton, it's more breathable, but
it's beautiful. It's quite expensive.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
There's also a really good Agia outlet in Sydney, but
if you're not from my bougie isn't very expensive. So
it's from the brand Forecast. It's on the iconic Manhattan
striped cotton shirt one hundred percent cotton. So you know
how those stripey oversized men's shirts are really cool. But
see how this isn't too oversized.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yes, that's perfect.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
So it's clearly for a woman's shape. I believe it's
slouching oversize, but not like you went and put your
dad's shirt on size four to sixteen and it also
comes into green. But I just love the blue stripe.
I'm just loving that with summer whites one hundred percent
cotton because I have to say, last week I wore
a synthetic long sleeve shirt. I just got to leave
(29:29):
my synthetics for the dead of winter, I think.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Or But this is what's interesting as well about why
I think a lot of women and them wearing oversize
because some of their fabric choices aren't quite right, and
so they're like, I want this armhole to sit away
from my body before I get really really honey, you're.
Speaker 1 (29:42):
Going to have to do a part two on fabric.
Now we know what shapes to go for. You've already
noailed the colors. Fabrics comes next. Care your wealth of knowledge.
I appreciate you bringing all your accumulated wisdom from designing
and then styling and helping women. So thank you so
much for joy, Thank you Lee, thank you, thank you
for listening to Nothing to Wear, don't forget to sign
(30:04):
up to the Nothing to Wear newsletter. It's free and
there's a link in the show notes. And if you
want to unders send more about sizing in Australia, we've
done a whole deep dive on that. It's incredibly interesting
and I reckon you'll learn something, so there's a link
to that episode in the show notes. See you next week.
This episode was produced by Grace Roofrey, with audio production
by Lou Hill. This podcast is powered by our subscribers.
(30:27):
If you believe in independent women's media and want to
support us, a subscription to Momma Mea only costs the
price of a fancy coffee each month. There's a link
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all of our current subscribers.
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