June 21, 2021 • 27 mins
Nothing’s Off Limits: brings together experts and people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love to avoid but absolutely need to talk about.
In this episode, Tess and Polly explore adult entertainment, products and services. Every adult has a right to access adult entertainment, products and services, including sex toys, adult movies and sex workers. However, it can be difficult for people who are blind or have low vision to purchase the products and services they want independently and anonymously. With the help of two amazing guests, both with lived experience of blindness and low vision, we really do go off limits!
Nothings off Limits is made with the support of Vision Australia Radio and the NDIS Information Linkages Capacity Building grant.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:03):
Nothing's off limits. It's off limits. Bringing together experts and
people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love
to avoid, but absolutely need to talk about me with
the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages
and capacity building grant, including grants.
S2 (00:24):
Hello and welcome to the show and nothing's off limits.
My name is Test and my wonderful co-host Polly and
I are continuing to delve into the treacherous terrain of
some of those topics, which you might normally consider off limits,
including identity, adult entertainment and more. We'll be discussing them
openly and honestly through the specific lens of blindness and
(00:44):
low vision with the help of our expert guests.
S3 (00:47):
This podcast is available to be downloaded on the Vision
Australia website, and you can find out more information about
where to find our web page at the end of
the show. But in this episode, we're talking about adult
entertainment products and services. Now we know this is a
subject which many definitely see as off-limits, but it really
doesn't have to be. That said, if you have younger
(01:09):
children in the room or this just isn't your thing,
you might want to go and listen to half an
hour of something else. Stay with us. OK, we're super
excited to be talking about this.
S2 (01:18):
We certainly are following. We've been looking forward to it
for weeks,
S3 (01:22):
so we should start by saying that every adult has
a right to access adult entertainment products and services that
include sex toys, adult movies and sex workers. However, it
can be difficult for people who are blind or have
low vision to purchase the products and services they want
independently and if they like anonymously. Also, adult movies are
(01:43):
not always, in fact rarely audio described, and people who
are blind or have low vision are often not provided
with adequate information about sex and adult entertainments. So to
help us address some of these challenges, we have a
couple of fabulous guests who have lived experience in this
area and so many insights and strategies to share with us.
But first, we asked you if you think adult entertainment
(02:07):
services and products are accessible and we got some really
interesting answers.
S1 (02:12):
Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly Polly. Every adult
has the right to access adult entertainment services and products.
Do you think they are accessible? I haven't
S4 (02:28):
used them from personal experience, but I'm happy to help
people if I need some advice or
S1 (02:33):
some guide. Do you find this is the kind of
thing that comes up in conversation within the black community?
S5 (02:38):
It has from time
S4 (02:39):
to time with some of my younger buyer friends around
surfing the internet and jumping online, and I say it
because they're not very accessible for my experience in my
younger days. I think adult entertainment services are accessible.
S6 (02:53):
Probably not. A lot is now if you think about
where you might get it from, and it'd be nice
if they all had audio description. They generally
S2 (03:00):
don't.
S1 (03:03):
You don't have to answer it if you don't want to.
I can't say I've got too much experience with that
particular topic, but I know there's quite a few people
who probably would
S5 (03:14):
find it rather difficult
S7 (03:16):
accessing adult entertainment services. That's a tricky one. I suppose
we could start a campaign about audio description in gentlemen's bars,
but I'm not sure how well that would go down
with my bosses when I'm doing my gentleman browsing. I
find it very easy to tap three times on the
front of my phone and zoom in for any details
I need.
S8 (03:36):
Yeah, I think because the community doesn't talk about it,
that openly. And then there's probably lots of information out
there that could be accessible that people don't necessarily know.
And even if you go into adult shop, you can
go into adult shops and get help. But you often
can't actually touch things because they're all packaged up. And
that kind of stuff know because lots of information, whether
(03:59):
it's adult related or not, is still inaccessible in the world.
That's just part of a bigger world of inaccessible information.
S9 (04:06):
Definitely. I think they have a right to. And I
think as I often if you have a disability, I
think may maybe common to all disability, but I see
I only have a vision disability. People kind of tend
to see you as not sexual. All of a sudden,
you can't be both. I think that needs to change,
and I think everyone has access to these things. But
(04:28):
I don't know necessarily whether I agree that should be
NDIS funded. I think it might cross into that thing
of anyone else in the community that wanted to access
something
S5 (04:38):
like that would be paying for it themselves.
S1 (04:40):
You're listening to nothing's off limits. We're Tess and Polly.
Produced by Vision Australia Radio,
S2 (04:46):
it's time to welcome our first guest, Sara Taylor. Sarah
has low vision and is a passionate advocate for people
who are blind or have low vision to be seen
as sexual beings in the wider community. Sarah, thanks so
much for coming on and sharing your insights on this
difficult topic.
S10 (05:04):
Thank you, I'm so excited, although that might be a
bad choice of words for this topic. So is it
all fair?
S3 (05:11):
How would you describe adult entertainment services and products? That's
the kind of the cover all we used for the
for the episode title. What does that mean to you?
S10 (05:20):
With my experience, I have considered hiring sex workers, although
I haven't actually gone into that area in any more
depth and that I do use adult products. So I
have been online shopping. I have two children, so I
have had an active sex life
S3 (05:36):
at least twice. And do you think the people who
are blind or have low vision have adequate access to
information about adult entertainment services and products?
S10 (05:48):
I'm not sure if it's any more or less accessible
than a lot of other services that we have. I
think a lot of other services, we kind of drive
the accessibility, so I'm not sure that we're driving that
in this space. So it would be good to see
people kind of pushing for emailing the service and saying, Look,
can we get access more features, please?
S3 (06:09):
Why do you think the lack of drive comes from
S10 (06:11):
probably the stigma around being associated with wanting those services?
I would
S3 (06:16):
imagine. And there is a stigma you think around talking
about what sex and the blindness and community?
S10 (06:22):
Look, I think you're asking the wrong person because I
am more than comfortable to have this conversation. But I
do think for some people, it can be a bit
like it. Just in general, people find it icky or
don't feel comfortable discussing it. And then, you know, adding
to that, so a support worker or someone or your
parents can get a bit tricky.
S2 (06:43):
Sarah, do you think there's such a thing as a
normal sex life? I mean, normal is a weird word,
isn't it?
S10 (06:50):
Within our community, we're kind of used to doing things
a little bit differently, and I think that those kind
of translate into the bedroom. I find people are a
bit more adventurous when you when you're used to having
to do things differently. Not that there's anything wrong with normal,
but it's good to be a little bit different,
S3 (07:08):
I guess is about finding what works for you and
what's comfortable for you. That's your normal bearing in mind.
You've said that you're really comfortable talking about these things,
even with that level of comfort yourself. Have you faced
any barriers while you're trying to access, say, adult entertainment?
S10 (07:23):
Well, it's funny because I'm low vision so I can
use Zoom and I can get close and I can
have narrators read product descriptions and things like that. So
for myself, not so much. I have heard it said
with people who are blind, preferring to use text rather
than the visual when it comes to movies and stories.
(07:44):
Although it's not very arousing to hear draws and I
write the whole scene for you.
S3 (07:52):
And what do you think could be done then to
make it easier for people who are blind or have
low vision to access some of the product? So let's
say a sex shop where there's lots of different things
and we were talking before about how challenging it can
be about, you know, going into a place that you
might not necessarily know and being able to go in independently.
S10 (08:12):
I was interested in these things when I was a
bit younger, and it's easier, I think when you're a
bit younger to go in with a group of friends.
So we'd be walking down the street and passing shop
and I'd be like, Let's just can we just go
in there and check it out? And so for me,
it was more of like going to a museum and
having to look around and see what is available, and
it was more of a reconnaissance. You can also shop online,
(08:33):
which gives you a bit more anonymity and you can
get the product descriptions and things like that, although you
don't get to kind of hold them and touch them
and feel the size which you can do in a shop.
S3 (08:42):
That's great advice. Yeah, that's that's really good advice, and
I think that was really fun what you were saying
about going on with your friends as well. You know,
it's it's not something we should be embarrassed about. And
if you are a bit embarrassed, while laughter is always
the best way to kind of get past that. And
so maybe just make it a fun experience going all
in together. Thinking back when you were start of your journey,
(09:03):
would you wish you had known about sex? What are
some of the things which, looking back now you think
would really have helped your journey?
S10 (09:10):
So I was comfortable talking about sex kind of earlier on,
and I did kind of grow up comfortable with sex,
so it wasn't too difficult for me. I think I
had that interest in exploring the shops and things like that.
I think going on campus would be visually impaired with
other visually impaired teens. I don't think sex was a problem,
(09:34):
but there was a lot of cuddling and things going on,
so I don't think there's too much of a stigma
around it.
S2 (09:41):
I completely agree with you, Sarah, when it came to
those camps, for people who are blind or have low vision,
physical affection was was certainly on the cards.
S10 (09:51):
And look, I do have a theory around that like,
maybe you want to feel included and you want to
feel that love and you want to feel that connection.
So I do think sex takes a lot of those
boxes that people.
S3 (10:03):
And thinking about teenage encounters brings me on to a
really relevant question, because there's having sex and there's enjoying sex.
If you want to explore some of the options available
to make sex more pleasurable, and that's a really personal thing,
but how can you start finding out what works for you?
S10 (10:24):
Self-examination is a really good place to start. There are
studies that show the more experience you have with yourself,
the better you are as a partner and the the
more enjoyable sex.
S3 (10:37):
So it's masturbation?
S10 (10:38):
Absolutely. Definitely. It's easier to explain to a partner kind
of what what feels good when you know already. And
so it actually helps your sex life.
S3 (10:47):
That's fantastic advice. Sarah, when Tess introduced you, she talked
about your real passion for people who are blind or
have low vision to be seen as sexual beings by
the wider community. Do you think the society doesn't see
people as sexual beings at the moment?
S10 (11:04):
I think people with disabilities in general are terribly seen
as being sexual beings, and so I think that we
are still human and it's definitely a human drive, not
just as hunger or thirst. And I want to see
people with disabilities enjoying that space.
S3 (11:19):
Is it something you go out and talk about? How
do you kind of start breaking down some of those misconceptions?
S10 (11:25):
I did hear of a lady who had physical impairments
and her aunt took her up to the bedroom and
fully clothed and helped her work out what positions were
comfortable for her and her body type. I think our vision,
we are a lot more tactile, so I think that
does that can translate into the bedroom. So just being
aware of what your strengths are?
S3 (11:45):
Oh, that's a wonderful note to leave it on, Sarah.
Thank you so much. This has been such a fun
but also really interesting conversation, and I can't thank you
enough for sharing your insights with us.
S10 (11:58):
No, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
S3 (12:00):
Take care. I think, Sarah,
S1 (12:03):
thanks for listening to. Nothing is off limits. My Vision
Australia radio. Did you know there are many ways you
can listen to our wide range of podcasts, including this
one search, certainly in this country radio and iTunes or Spotify,
playing our latest podcasts on our radio front page and
the radio dot org. All the same by the Vision
Australia website is Vision Australia. Org Aussies with a print disability.
(12:27):
They access our Vision Australia Audio Library to where you
can listen to our full range of podcasts on an
accessible device. Learn more about our library and our various
services and Vision Australia dot org.
S3 (12:41):
I'd now like to introduce our second guest, Bianca Petric.
Bianca is blind and is here to share some useful
insights and strategies to help people access the adult entertainment,
services and products that meet their individual needs. Bianca, it's
great to have you back. Thank you so much for
being here.
S5 (12:58):
Thanks for having me. Bianca, do you think
S2 (13:00):
people who are blind or have low vision have adequate
access to sex education?
S3 (13:05):
No question.
S2 (13:11):
In what way do you think it's inadequate?
S5 (13:13):
Well, let me start by saying that most of the
stuff is visual and the diagrams that we are given.
All the models we are given are 3D meant to
be 2D. They're not large enough to what's actually there.
We have an idea of what's going on. I know people,
I kid you not. They had no idea what to
(13:34):
expect when about to experience a sexual situation with someone
of the opposite sex. I've had this with with guys.
They had no idea what girls bits look like. No clue.
Everything from concentric circles to no one told me it
was round. I mean, stuff that you just don't know
(13:54):
if you can have any access. If you can't feel it.
You don't know what to expect. I even had people
have issues with the idea that it was messy it.
S2 (14:04):
Hearing you, Bianca, makes me feel very glad I'm a
lesbian and I know where everything is and what things are.
It's always, always good. It doesn't matter whether or not
I have an adequate sex education. Where would you advise
people to go to find reliable information about sex?
S5 (14:19):
You can get all kinds of information everywhere. But what?
People are left as a points of reference, right? If
you can't see anything, you're lacking any point of reference
possible unless it's yourself. I mean, you can get stuff
on the net and whatever all the blogs, you can
get adequate information from, from good sex blogs and all
that kind of thing. But what you cannot get is
point of reference.
S2 (14:40):
So perhaps then is it about talking to people, you know,
finding those safe spaces to talk and perhaps share any
information that each other have have picked up? If if
the information on the internet is not quite
S5 (14:53):
good, that's only part of it. You've got to get
people touching things that might mean that someone buys a
model of, you know. Realistic dildo or realistic vulva, or,
you know, I've even heard of these vulva puppets in England,
I've seen when they're really cool and I think people
(15:13):
actually need to be given the stuff in physical and
people don't like that. If someone says, I said, Oh no, no, no,
we can't do that. But yeah, that's what people need.
They need a physical point of reference to know exactly
what it is people are talking about, because it doesn't
matter how well you describe if there's no point of reference,
they're not going to understand.
S2 (15:34):
So in order to find things where you can do
that exploration, you might visit an adult shop.
S5 (15:41):
You probably want to go to one where it's where
the people are passionate about what they do. Maybe like
the single type shops where it's really important to the
owners of the shop or to the workers at the
shop that the customers have a good experience and not
just the chain place where someone works. And it's like,
(16:03):
Oh yeah, this is a job like every other job.
S2 (16:06):
So what would you suggest, then, for somebody who's blind
or has low vision who maybe hasn't been into an
adult shop before? But what would you suggest they they
do if they want to explore that independently?
S5 (16:19):
Well, I would suggest doing your research and finding out
which adult shops in the area and when you do that,
give them a ring and talk to the people that
are working there, actually make contact with the shops and
find out what the people there are like. Either give
them a ring or give them an email and then
(16:39):
a ring or make contact. And then when you explain
your situation and you find out who's willing to actually
go that extra distance for you.
S2 (16:49):
I always wondered if I wanted to go into an
adult shop, how I would do that independently, because I
certainly I mean, there's a couple of friends I have
who might consider going with me, but I certainly wouldn't
feel comfortable taking a support worker and probably not a
member of my family. So it's a tricky one, isn't it?
It sounds like it is about to of that preparation.
S5 (17:11):
I'm lucky I'm self-managed, and I have support workers that
I've known for a long time aren't people that I've known,
and then I've had them as support workers. So I
know someone who is very sexually liberated. And when I've,
I took someone to a sex shop with her and
I'm like, OK, we're doing this. And, you know, and
she understood the material really well as well. So she
helped this person to just see what everything was. And
(17:34):
this is a dildo. This is a woudenberg wheels. This
is a fleshlight showing this person everything possible so that
they had had their points of reference. So they knew
what everything was, and I was lucky. But if you
want to do it by yourself, then do the research,
talk to the people at the shops, ask them if
(17:54):
they would be willing. And if you know, if you
get a really unfriendly person and you know not to
go to that shop, you do it like you do
every other shop. If you want to go to a
good stereo shop, you look around and you find out,
you know, a good pet shop or a good gourmet
food shop. It's basically you want to know who's good
enough to get your business.
S2 (18:10):
Absolutely. And then I suppose you can establish a good
relationship with the manager or owner or person who works
in the adult shop. And then you can sort of,
you know, like you might have your regular supermarket or
a regular guy that you go to and feel comfortable.
You can establish a regular relationship with them.
S5 (18:28):
Yeah, exactly
S2 (18:30):
what you said about research is very important because I'm
thinking that unless you've been to an adult shop before,
there are going to be a whole lot of options
because there are a lot of options available out there
these days. Yes.
S5 (18:41):
Yes. Pleasurable.
S2 (18:42):
You might not know about any of these options if
you haven't researched. You might go in to buy one
thing and then, you know, there might be all the
other things, but you just never heard of them. That
can
S5 (18:53):
be challenging. There's also stuff about body safety silicone abs, plastic, glass,
wood that's treated not with splinters in it and stuff,
and stainless steel. They're safe, but anything else. Some of
the stuff is porous, and it's not very good for you.
Some people get like burning genitals and that sort of thing.
So that's another thing that people a lot of people
(19:15):
don't know about and also certain ribs with some nasties
in them. So yeah, it's a minefield. And the other
thing is, yes, you can buy stuff online, but in
order to do that, you're going to want a point
of reference. So you're going to probably want to go
to a shop once or twice and get the things
you want. And if you have a certain lube or whatever,
you can go to places like Lovehoney or I'm not,
I'm not selling for that or an adult shop to
(19:39):
come today. You like places like that online where you
can get your products if you know exactly what you want.
S3 (19:46):
You mentioned about going into the Shop B, and I'm
just thinking about that. That kind of physical, tactile point
of reference you mentioned if you went into a shop,
are there things on display that you can touch and
feel and explore? Or is everything packed away in boxes?
S5 (20:01):
There are things on display. And the person that if
they're a good shop worker person, they will take stuff
out for you. So don't be afraid, then give you things. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Do not be afraid to ask. Definitely. Don't be afraid
to ask. People will do it. And if they act
like that, it's a big favor. Go to another place.
S2 (20:21):
Great advice, Bianca. Have you filmed adult movies to be
accessible to people who are blind or have low vision
in your experience?
S5 (20:29):
Well, they're a bit interesting because a lot of them
don't have much in terms of awareness. There's a lot
of music. Some of them have, like some of them
clips and some of them have sound. And you sort
of have a bit of an idea if they're the
usual mainstream, know first you have a role and then
you have your PIV and then you have maybe, you know,
(20:50):
and all that and it's sort of in this big,
like predictable routine with the mainstream stuff. Yes, there's audio
described porn. It is awkward just just saying, you know,
it's awkward on their
S2 (21:00):
platforms you can go to to access the
S5 (21:03):
audio described porn. I think Pornhub has it, but they're
not always very ethical with their stars and stuff. There's
also some porn that's like not the mainstream, where people
are trying to be ethical places like crash pad series
and pink TV and places like that. The problem I
had with those places because you have no idea what's
(21:24):
going on because you don't have it described, you literally
don't know what's happening. And sometimes they have like different
gender bending stuff going on different voices. You don't know
who's who. Like, there was one where it was. I
think it was Tina and Roger and Roger did not
have a what I know as a man's voice, so
I had no idea who was who. And there was
(21:44):
all kinds of contexts that you just didn't know if
you didn't see it. The only way I knew about
it was was what was reading a review by Girly
Juice on the crash 10 series stuff, knowing all the context.
That's the only reason because I read the reviews.
S2 (22:00):
What are some challenges that come with accessing sex workers
or brothels? If you're blind or you have low
S5 (22:06):
vision kink, one of the biggest challenges that people face
and I haven't had to access a brothel or sex work,
but I've spoken to a lot of people who have
and a lot of the problem that a lot of
people have is that they have this thing of I've
got to take what I'm given. So they end up
with people who don't fit their needs. They don't feel
(22:27):
comfortable disclosing their kinks. They don't feel comfortable disclosing things like,
I need someone who speaks English so that I can
have communication and know that I know that it's all
consenting because people aren't going to think about that. People
think they should be grateful for what they're given, and
the people choosing the worker for them thinks that who
(22:49):
in a way, it's like all this. You know, we'll
just get this person, you know, get them off and
running sort of thing. And they don't think about like
sitting down, having a talk with the person asking exactly
what they want or need.
S2 (23:03):
Yes. Yes, I see. So in order to overcome those challenges,
you simply don't have first hand experience. But from talking
to others who do
S5 (23:13):
what
S2 (23:14):
you suggest to people who are new to accessing sex
workers and going to Brussels,
S5 (23:20):
I would suggest write out a list of the things
that are absolutely mandatory, right? And the things that are
like would be nice and the things that are not
OK because there are things that people like. If I
went to a sex worker, for example, there are certain
voices an expense that would squeak me out. Yes, if I,
(23:41):
you know, if I had to deal with that, I
would not be able to get messy. Like, it just
wouldn't happen. And I know it does. That would literally
not be ever right because, yeah, her voice is gross.
And what do you do? Like, what do you say
you've been given this person and say, I can't, you know,
inside a person can pick and choose, but it's kind
of this thing of like, you're disabled, you get what
(24:02):
you're given and be grateful. It's like a disabled person
doesn't have the same rights to sex than an able
bodied person has, and it's not okay.
S3 (24:11):
Bianca, that's great advice. And I think that agency point
is a it's a really powerful point to make. What
are some strategies you can use to make sure you
have that agency around safety and making sure that you're
safe and comfortable while participating in sex with a regular
partner and you partner with the sex worker, whatever that
might be? How can you take control of your safety?
S5 (24:31):
Safe calls are absolutely essential. Make sure you have a
person that you can call at a certain time to say, Look,
I'm OK, I'm totally, you know, nothing wrong or have
a code so that if there is a problem, you
can say something like, Gee, that steak tastes really good
or something like that, and the person knows you don't
(24:54):
eat steak, so they know it's a problem. Gotcha. Also
discuss safety concerns beforehand and go to a place where you.
You are able to get there and get back independently
taken over, make that as part of your thing, don't
have them take you back home so they know where
you live, things like that. Make sure that you have
(25:15):
control of your transport. Make sure you have control that
there will be condoms used. This is the contraception I'm using.
Have those talks beforehand. Also like when it's about kink,
make sure you have safeguards in place green, yellow and
red or potato or whatever. If you say that it's
totally not OK, things like that, it makes sure that
(25:36):
you have no list like hard limits. I don't want this.
And if you try to get around my nose and
I'm not doing any more with you so that you
can be in a position of trust with the person
because that stuff's really important as well. Comfortable. Yeah, just
make sure you know, like you're able to have as
much control and agency of the situation as you possibly
(25:57):
can be anchor.
S2 (25:58):
I think that is a fantastic note to end on that.
Some wonderful strategies there. Thank you so much for joining
us and sharing such wonderful insights.
S5 (26:07):
Thanks for having me.
S3 (26:08):
And this is just the start of the conversation about
adult services and entertainment. More information and some useful resources
can be found on the Vision Australia website, including a
link to an adult shop, which provides detailed descriptions of
their sex toys to make them more accessible.
S2 (26:24):
Remember, each episode of Nothing's Off Limits is available to
download from the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision
Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot org type. Nothing's
off limits into the search engine, and you'll be directed
to our fabulous web page where you can listen to
this and other episodes and do make sure you subscribe
(26:45):
so you don't miss any or if you prefer. Because
let's face it, no one likes having to search for
too many things on the internet. You can just tune
in via Vision Australia radio, and
S3 (26:53):
next time we'll be talking about being not blind enough
and you'll find out exactly what that means and hear
from a panel of great guests with a wealth of
insights on the topic. But until then, thank you again
to our fantastic guests and thank you to you for
joining us for the show where nothing's off limits.
S1 (27:16):
That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of
efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant.
Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio,
dot org and access. All there is to know about
our range of client services via our website, Visit Australia
(27:36):
dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode,
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Bye for now.
Nothing's off limits. It's off limits. Bringing together experts and
people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love
to avoid, but absolutely need to talk about me with
the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages
and capacity building grant, including grants.
S2 (00:24):
Hello and welcome to the show and nothing's off limits.
My name is Test and my wonderful co-host Polly and
I are continuing to delve into the treacherous terrain of
some of those topics, which you might normally consider off limits,
including identity, adult entertainment and more. We'll be discussing them
openly and honestly through the specific lens of blindness and
(00:44):
low vision with the help of our expert guests.
S3 (00:47):
This podcast is available to be downloaded on the Vision
Australia website, and you can find out more information about
where to find our web page at the end of
the show. But in this episode, we're talking about adult
entertainment products and services. Now we know this is a
subject which many definitely see as off-limits, but it really
doesn't have to be. That said, if you have younger
(01:09):
children in the room or this just isn't your thing,
you might want to go and listen to half an
hour of something else. Stay with us. OK, we're super
excited to be talking about this.
S2 (01:18):
We certainly are following. We've been looking forward to it
for weeks,
S3 (01:22):
so we should start by saying that every adult has
a right to access adult entertainment products and services that
include sex toys, adult movies and sex workers. However, it
can be difficult for people who are blind or have
low vision to purchase the products and services they want
independently and if they like anonymously. Also, adult movies are
(01:43):
not always, in fact rarely audio described, and people who
are blind or have low vision are often not provided
with adequate information about sex and adult entertainments. So to
help us address some of these challenges, we have a
couple of fabulous guests who have lived experience in this
area and so many insights and strategies to share with us.
But first, we asked you if you think adult entertainment
(02:07):
services and products are accessible and we got some really
interesting answers.
S1 (02:12):
Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly Polly. Every adult
has the right to access adult entertainment services and products.
Do you think they are accessible? I haven't
S4 (02:28):
used them from personal experience, but I'm happy to help
people if I need some advice or
S1 (02:33):
some guide. Do you find this is the kind of
thing that comes up in conversation within the black community?
S5 (02:38):
It has from time
S4 (02:39):
to time with some of my younger buyer friends around
surfing the internet and jumping online, and I say it
because they're not very accessible for my experience in my
younger days. I think adult entertainment services are accessible.
S6 (02:53):
Probably not. A lot is now if you think about
where you might get it from, and it'd be nice
if they all had audio description. They generally
S2 (03:00):
don't.
S1 (03:03):
You don't have to answer it if you don't want to.
I can't say I've got too much experience with that
particular topic, but I know there's quite a few people
who probably would
S5 (03:14):
find it rather difficult
S7 (03:16):
accessing adult entertainment services. That's a tricky one. I suppose
we could start a campaign about audio description in gentlemen's bars,
but I'm not sure how well that would go down
with my bosses when I'm doing my gentleman browsing. I
find it very easy to tap three times on the
front of my phone and zoom in for any details
I need.
S8 (03:36):
Yeah, I think because the community doesn't talk about it,
that openly. And then there's probably lots of information out
there that could be accessible that people don't necessarily know.
And even if you go into adult shop, you can
go into adult shops and get help. But you often
can't actually touch things because they're all packaged up. And
that kind of stuff know because lots of information, whether
(03:59):
it's adult related or not, is still inaccessible in the world.
That's just part of a bigger world of inaccessible information.
S9 (04:06):
Definitely. I think they have a right to. And I
think as I often if you have a disability, I
think may maybe common to all disability, but I see
I only have a vision disability. People kind of tend
to see you as not sexual. All of a sudden,
you can't be both. I think that needs to change,
and I think everyone has access to these things. But
(04:28):
I don't know necessarily whether I agree that should be
NDIS funded. I think it might cross into that thing
of anyone else in the community that wanted to access
something
S5 (04:38):
like that would be paying for it themselves.
S1 (04:40):
You're listening to nothing's off limits. We're Tess and Polly.
Produced by Vision Australia Radio,
S2 (04:46):
it's time to welcome our first guest, Sara Taylor. Sarah
has low vision and is a passionate advocate for people
who are blind or have low vision to be seen
as sexual beings in the wider community. Sarah, thanks so
much for coming on and sharing your insights on this
difficult topic.
S10 (05:04):
Thank you, I'm so excited, although that might be a
bad choice of words for this topic. So is it
all fair?
S3 (05:11):
How would you describe adult entertainment services and products? That's
the kind of the cover all we used for the
for the episode title. What does that mean to you?
S10 (05:20):
With my experience, I have considered hiring sex workers, although
I haven't actually gone into that area in any more
depth and that I do use adult products. So I
have been online shopping. I have two children, so I
have had an active sex life
S3 (05:36):
at least twice. And do you think the people who
are blind or have low vision have adequate access to
information about adult entertainment services and products?
S10 (05:48):
I'm not sure if it's any more or less accessible
than a lot of other services that we have. I
think a lot of other services, we kind of drive
the accessibility, so I'm not sure that we're driving that
in this space. So it would be good to see
people kind of pushing for emailing the service and saying, Look,
can we get access more features, please?
S3 (06:09):
Why do you think the lack of drive comes from
S10 (06:11):
probably the stigma around being associated with wanting those services?
I would
S3 (06:16):
imagine. And there is a stigma you think around talking
about what sex and the blindness and community?
S10 (06:22):
Look, I think you're asking the wrong person because I
am more than comfortable to have this conversation. But I
do think for some people, it can be a bit
like it. Just in general, people find it icky or
don't feel comfortable discussing it. And then, you know, adding
to that, so a support worker or someone or your
parents can get a bit tricky.
S2 (06:43):
Sarah, do you think there's such a thing as a
normal sex life? I mean, normal is a weird word,
isn't it?
S10 (06:50):
Within our community, we're kind of used to doing things
a little bit differently, and I think that those kind
of translate into the bedroom. I find people are a
bit more adventurous when you when you're used to having
to do things differently. Not that there's anything wrong with normal,
but it's good to be a little bit different,
S3 (07:08):
I guess is about finding what works for you and
what's comfortable for you. That's your normal bearing in mind.
You've said that you're really comfortable talking about these things,
even with that level of comfort yourself. Have you faced
any barriers while you're trying to access, say, adult entertainment?
S10 (07:23):
Well, it's funny because I'm low vision so I can
use Zoom and I can get close and I can
have narrators read product descriptions and things like that. So
for myself, not so much. I have heard it said
with people who are blind, preferring to use text rather
than the visual when it comes to movies and stories.
(07:44):
Although it's not very arousing to hear draws and I
write the whole scene for you.
S3 (07:52):
And what do you think could be done then to
make it easier for people who are blind or have
low vision to access some of the product? So let's
say a sex shop where there's lots of different things
and we were talking before about how challenging it can
be about, you know, going into a place that you
might not necessarily know and being able to go in independently.
S10 (08:12):
I was interested in these things when I was a
bit younger, and it's easier, I think when you're a
bit younger to go in with a group of friends.
So we'd be walking down the street and passing shop
and I'd be like, Let's just can we just go
in there and check it out? And so for me,
it was more of like going to a museum and
having to look around and see what is available, and
it was more of a reconnaissance. You can also shop online,
(08:33):
which gives you a bit more anonymity and you can
get the product descriptions and things like that, although you
don't get to kind of hold them and touch them
and feel the size which you can do in a shop.
S3 (08:42):
That's great advice. Yeah, that's that's really good advice, and
I think that was really fun what you were saying
about going on with your friends as well. You know,
it's it's not something we should be embarrassed about. And
if you are a bit embarrassed, while laughter is always
the best way to kind of get past that. And
so maybe just make it a fun experience going all
in together. Thinking back when you were start of your journey,
(09:03):
would you wish you had known about sex? What are
some of the things which, looking back now you think
would really have helped your journey?
S10 (09:10):
So I was comfortable talking about sex kind of earlier on,
and I did kind of grow up comfortable with sex,
so it wasn't too difficult for me. I think I
had that interest in exploring the shops and things like that.
I think going on campus would be visually impaired with
other visually impaired teens. I don't think sex was a problem,
(09:34):
but there was a lot of cuddling and things going on,
so I don't think there's too much of a stigma
around it.
S2 (09:41):
I completely agree with you, Sarah, when it came to
those camps, for people who are blind or have low vision,
physical affection was was certainly on the cards.
S10 (09:51):
And look, I do have a theory around that like,
maybe you want to feel included and you want to
feel that love and you want to feel that connection.
So I do think sex takes a lot of those
boxes that people.
S3 (10:03):
And thinking about teenage encounters brings me on to a
really relevant question, because there's having sex and there's enjoying sex.
If you want to explore some of the options available
to make sex more pleasurable, and that's a really personal thing,
but how can you start finding out what works for you?
S10 (10:24):
Self-examination is a really good place to start. There are
studies that show the more experience you have with yourself,
the better you are as a partner and the the
more enjoyable sex.
S3 (10:37):
So it's masturbation?
S10 (10:38):
Absolutely. Definitely. It's easier to explain to a partner kind
of what what feels good when you know already. And
so it actually helps your sex life.
S3 (10:47):
That's fantastic advice. Sarah, when Tess introduced you, she talked
about your real passion for people who are blind or
have low vision to be seen as sexual beings by
the wider community. Do you think the society doesn't see
people as sexual beings at the moment?
S10 (11:04):
I think people with disabilities in general are terribly seen
as being sexual beings, and so I think that we
are still human and it's definitely a human drive, not
just as hunger or thirst. And I want to see
people with disabilities enjoying that space.
S3 (11:19):
Is it something you go out and talk about? How
do you kind of start breaking down some of those misconceptions?
S10 (11:25):
I did hear of a lady who had physical impairments
and her aunt took her up to the bedroom and
fully clothed and helped her work out what positions were
comfortable for her and her body type. I think our vision,
we are a lot more tactile, so I think that
does that can translate into the bedroom. So just being
aware of what your strengths are?
S3 (11:45):
Oh, that's a wonderful note to leave it on, Sarah.
Thank you so much. This has been such a fun
but also really interesting conversation, and I can't thank you
enough for sharing your insights with us.
S10 (11:58):
No, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.
S3 (12:00):
Take care. I think, Sarah,
S1 (12:03):
thanks for listening to. Nothing is off limits. My Vision
Australia radio. Did you know there are many ways you
can listen to our wide range of podcasts, including this
one search, certainly in this country radio and iTunes or Spotify,
playing our latest podcasts on our radio front page and
the radio dot org. All the same by the Vision
Australia website is Vision Australia. Org Aussies with a print disability.
(12:27):
They access our Vision Australia Audio Library to where you
can listen to our full range of podcasts on an
accessible device. Learn more about our library and our various
services and Vision Australia dot org.
S3 (12:41):
I'd now like to introduce our second guest, Bianca Petric.
Bianca is blind and is here to share some useful
insights and strategies to help people access the adult entertainment,
services and products that meet their individual needs. Bianca, it's
great to have you back. Thank you so much for
being here.
S5 (12:58):
Thanks for having me. Bianca, do you think
S2 (13:00):
people who are blind or have low vision have adequate
access to sex education?
S3 (13:05):
No question.
S2 (13:11):
In what way do you think it's inadequate?
S5 (13:13):
Well, let me start by saying that most of the
stuff is visual and the diagrams that we are given.
All the models we are given are 3D meant to
be 2D. They're not large enough to what's actually there.
We have an idea of what's going on. I know people,
I kid you not. They had no idea what to
(13:34):
expect when about to experience a sexual situation with someone
of the opposite sex. I've had this with with guys.
They had no idea what girls bits look like. No clue.
Everything from concentric circles to no one told me it
was round. I mean, stuff that you just don't know
(13:54):
if you can have any access. If you can't feel it.
You don't know what to expect. I even had people
have issues with the idea that it was messy it.
S2 (14:04):
Hearing you, Bianca, makes me feel very glad I'm a
lesbian and I know where everything is and what things are.
It's always, always good. It doesn't matter whether or not
I have an adequate sex education. Where would you advise
people to go to find reliable information about sex?
S5 (14:19):
You can get all kinds of information everywhere. But what?
People are left as a points of reference, right? If
you can't see anything, you're lacking any point of reference
possible unless it's yourself. I mean, you can get stuff
on the net and whatever all the blogs, you can
get adequate information from, from good sex blogs and all
that kind of thing. But what you cannot get is
point of reference.
S2 (14:40):
So perhaps then is it about talking to people, you know,
finding those safe spaces to talk and perhaps share any
information that each other have have picked up? If if
the information on the internet is not quite
S5 (14:53):
good, that's only part of it. You've got to get
people touching things that might mean that someone buys a
model of, you know. Realistic dildo or realistic vulva, or,
you know, I've even heard of these vulva puppets in England,
I've seen when they're really cool and I think people
(15:13):
actually need to be given the stuff in physical and
people don't like that. If someone says, I said, Oh no, no, no,
we can't do that. But yeah, that's what people need.
They need a physical point of reference to know exactly
what it is people are talking about, because it doesn't
matter how well you describe if there's no point of reference,
they're not going to understand.
S2 (15:34):
So in order to find things where you can do
that exploration, you might visit an adult shop.
S5 (15:41):
You probably want to go to one where it's where
the people are passionate about what they do. Maybe like
the single type shops where it's really important to the
owners of the shop or to the workers at the
shop that the customers have a good experience and not
just the chain place where someone works. And it's like,
(16:03):
Oh yeah, this is a job like every other job.
S2 (16:06):
So what would you suggest, then, for somebody who's blind
or has low vision who maybe hasn't been into an
adult shop before? But what would you suggest they they
do if they want to explore that independently?
S5 (16:19):
Well, I would suggest doing your research and finding out
which adult shops in the area and when you do that,
give them a ring and talk to the people that
are working there, actually make contact with the shops and
find out what the people there are like. Either give
them a ring or give them an email and then
(16:39):
a ring or make contact. And then when you explain
your situation and you find out who's willing to actually
go that extra distance for you.
S2 (16:49):
I always wondered if I wanted to go into an
adult shop, how I would do that independently, because I
certainly I mean, there's a couple of friends I have
who might consider going with me, but I certainly wouldn't
feel comfortable taking a support worker and probably not a
member of my family. So it's a tricky one, isn't it?
It sounds like it is about to of that preparation.
S5 (17:11):
I'm lucky I'm self-managed, and I have support workers that
I've known for a long time aren't people that I've known,
and then I've had them as support workers. So I
know someone who is very sexually liberated. And when I've,
I took someone to a sex shop with her and
I'm like, OK, we're doing this. And, you know, and
she understood the material really well as well. So she
helped this person to just see what everything was. And
(17:34):
this is a dildo. This is a woudenberg wheels. This
is a fleshlight showing this person everything possible so that
they had had their points of reference. So they knew
what everything was, and I was lucky. But if you
want to do it by yourself, then do the research,
talk to the people at the shops, ask them if
(17:54):
they would be willing. And if you know, if you
get a really unfriendly person and you know not to
go to that shop, you do it like you do
every other shop. If you want to go to a
good stereo shop, you look around and you find out,
you know, a good pet shop or a good gourmet
food shop. It's basically you want to know who's good
enough to get your business.
S2 (18:10):
Absolutely. And then I suppose you can establish a good
relationship with the manager or owner or person who works
in the adult shop. And then you can sort of,
you know, like you might have your regular supermarket or
a regular guy that you go to and feel comfortable.
You can establish a regular relationship with them.
S5 (18:28):
Yeah, exactly
S2 (18:30):
what you said about research is very important because I'm
thinking that unless you've been to an adult shop before,
there are going to be a whole lot of options
because there are a lot of options available out there
these days. Yes.
S5 (18:41):
Yes. Pleasurable.
S2 (18:42):
You might not know about any of these options if
you haven't researched. You might go in to buy one
thing and then, you know, there might be all the
other things, but you just never heard of them. That
can
S5 (18:53):
be challenging. There's also stuff about body safety silicone abs, plastic, glass,
wood that's treated not with splinters in it and stuff,
and stainless steel. They're safe, but anything else. Some of
the stuff is porous, and it's not very good for you.
Some people get like burning genitals and that sort of thing.
So that's another thing that people a lot of people
(19:15):
don't know about and also certain ribs with some nasties
in them. So yeah, it's a minefield. And the other
thing is, yes, you can buy stuff online, but in
order to do that, you're going to want a point
of reference. So you're going to probably want to go
to a shop once or twice and get the things
you want. And if you have a certain lube or whatever,
you can go to places like Lovehoney or I'm not,
I'm not selling for that or an adult shop to
(19:39):
come today. You like places like that online where you
can get your products if you know exactly what you want.
S3 (19:46):
You mentioned about going into the Shop B, and I'm
just thinking about that. That kind of physical, tactile point
of reference you mentioned if you went into a shop,
are there things on display that you can touch and
feel and explore? Or is everything packed away in boxes?
S5 (20:01):
There are things on display. And the person that if
they're a good shop worker person, they will take stuff
out for you. So don't be afraid, then give you things. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Do not be afraid to ask. Definitely. Don't be afraid
to ask. People will do it. And if they act
like that, it's a big favor. Go to another place.
S2 (20:21):
Great advice, Bianca. Have you filmed adult movies to be
accessible to people who are blind or have low vision
in your experience?
S5 (20:29):
Well, they're a bit interesting because a lot of them
don't have much in terms of awareness. There's a lot
of music. Some of them have, like some of them
clips and some of them have sound. And you sort
of have a bit of an idea if they're the
usual mainstream, know first you have a role and then
you have your PIV and then you have maybe, you know,
(20:50):
and all that and it's sort of in this big,
like predictable routine with the mainstream stuff. Yes, there's audio
described porn. It is awkward just just saying, you know,
it's awkward on their
S2 (21:00):
platforms you can go to to access the
S5 (21:03):
audio described porn. I think Pornhub has it, but they're
not always very ethical with their stars and stuff. There's
also some porn that's like not the mainstream, where people
are trying to be ethical places like crash pad series
and pink TV and places like that. The problem I
had with those places because you have no idea what's
(21:24):
going on because you don't have it described, you literally
don't know what's happening. And sometimes they have like different
gender bending stuff going on different voices. You don't know
who's who. Like, there was one where it was. I
think it was Tina and Roger and Roger did not
have a what I know as a man's voice, so
I had no idea who was who. And there was
(21:44):
all kinds of contexts that you just didn't know if
you didn't see it. The only way I knew about
it was was what was reading a review by Girly
Juice on the crash 10 series stuff, knowing all the context.
That's the only reason because I read the reviews.
S2 (22:00):
What are some challenges that come with accessing sex workers
or brothels? If you're blind or you have low
S5 (22:06):
vision kink, one of the biggest challenges that people face
and I haven't had to access a brothel or sex work,
but I've spoken to a lot of people who have
and a lot of the problem that a lot of
people have is that they have this thing of I've
got to take what I'm given. So they end up
with people who don't fit their needs. They don't feel
(22:27):
comfortable disclosing their kinks. They don't feel comfortable disclosing things like,
I need someone who speaks English so that I can
have communication and know that I know that it's all
consenting because people aren't going to think about that. People
think they should be grateful for what they're given, and
the people choosing the worker for them thinks that who
(22:49):
in a way, it's like all this. You know, we'll
just get this person, you know, get them off and
running sort of thing. And they don't think about like
sitting down, having a talk with the person asking exactly
what they want or need.
S2 (23:03):
Yes. Yes, I see. So in order to overcome those challenges,
you simply don't have first hand experience. But from talking
to others who do
S5 (23:13):
what
S2 (23:14):
you suggest to people who are new to accessing sex
workers and going to Brussels,
S5 (23:20):
I would suggest write out a list of the things
that are absolutely mandatory, right? And the things that are
like would be nice and the things that are not
OK because there are things that people like. If I
went to a sex worker, for example, there are certain
voices an expense that would squeak me out. Yes, if I,
(23:41):
you know, if I had to deal with that, I
would not be able to get messy. Like, it just
wouldn't happen. And I know it does. That would literally
not be ever right because, yeah, her voice is gross.
And what do you do? Like, what do you say
you've been given this person and say, I can't, you know,
inside a person can pick and choose, but it's kind
of this thing of like, you're disabled, you get what
(24:02):
you're given and be grateful. It's like a disabled person
doesn't have the same rights to sex than an able
bodied person has, and it's not okay.
S3 (24:11):
Bianca, that's great advice. And I think that agency point
is a it's a really powerful point to make. What
are some strategies you can use to make sure you
have that agency around safety and making sure that you're
safe and comfortable while participating in sex with a regular
partner and you partner with the sex worker, whatever that
might be? How can you take control of your safety?
S5 (24:31):
Safe calls are absolutely essential. Make sure you have a
person that you can call at a certain time to say, Look,
I'm OK, I'm totally, you know, nothing wrong or have
a code so that if there is a problem, you
can say something like, Gee, that steak tastes really good
or something like that, and the person knows you don't
(24:54):
eat steak, so they know it's a problem. Gotcha. Also
discuss safety concerns beforehand and go to a place where you.
You are able to get there and get back independently
taken over, make that as part of your thing, don't
have them take you back home so they know where
you live, things like that. Make sure that you have
(25:15):
control of your transport. Make sure you have control that
there will be condoms used. This is the contraception I'm using.
Have those talks beforehand. Also like when it's about kink,
make sure you have safeguards in place green, yellow and
red or potato or whatever. If you say that it's
totally not OK, things like that, it makes sure that
(25:36):
you have no list like hard limits. I don't want this.
And if you try to get around my nose and
I'm not doing any more with you so that you
can be in a position of trust with the person
because that stuff's really important as well. Comfortable. Yeah, just
make sure you know, like you're able to have as
much control and agency of the situation as you possibly
(25:57):
can be anchor.
S2 (25:58):
I think that is a fantastic note to end on that.
Some wonderful strategies there. Thank you so much for joining
us and sharing such wonderful insights.
S5 (26:07):
Thanks for having me.
S3 (26:08):
And this is just the start of the conversation about
adult services and entertainment. More information and some useful resources
can be found on the Vision Australia website, including a
link to an adult shop, which provides detailed descriptions of
their sex toys to make them more accessible.
S2 (26:24):
Remember, each episode of Nothing's Off Limits is available to
download from the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision
Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot org type. Nothing's
off limits into the search engine, and you'll be directed
to our fabulous web page where you can listen to
this and other episodes and do make sure you subscribe
(26:45):
so you don't miss any or if you prefer. Because
let's face it, no one likes having to search for
too many things on the internet. You can just tune
in via Vision Australia radio, and
S3 (26:53):
next time we'll be talking about being not blind enough
and you'll find out exactly what that means and hear
from a panel of great guests with a wealth of
insights on the topic. But until then, thank you again
to our fantastic guests and thank you to you for
joining us for the show where nothing's off limits.
S1 (27:16):
That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of
efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant.
Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio,
dot org and access. All there is to know about
our range of client services via our website, Visit Australia
(27:36):
dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode,
but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support,
so please share this podcast with just one person today
and bright announce or write us on your preferred podcast platform.
Bye for now.
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