May 25, 2021 • 29 mins
Welcome to our podcast series Nothing’s Off Limits: bringing together experts and people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love to avoid but absolutely need to talk about.
In this episode, Tess and Polly ask guests about personal care, exploring everything from removing unwanted body hair to using public facilities. They also delve into everyone’s favourite time of the month and find out more about managing menstruation.
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See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:03):
Nothing's off limits, things off limits. Bringing together experts and
people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love
to avoid, but absolutely need to talk about me with
the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages
and capacity building grants, including grants.
S2 (00:25):
Hello, and welcome to this fourth episode of Nothing's Off Limits.
My name is Tess and together with my co-host Polly.
We're continuing to delve into some of those topics which
you might normally consider off limits, including body image and appearance, relationships,
dating and identity, and much more. We'll be exploring them
(00:45):
openly and honestly through the specific lens of blindness and
low vision with the help of expert guests.
S3 (00:51):
Tess, I think regardless of age or experience, you know,
the whole thing around menstruation is a real challenge. Do
you think the challenge is greater for people with a disability?
S2 (01:01):
Look, I can really only speak to my personal experience,
but I remember even being, you know, in my mid
to late 20s and finding it very daunting having to
go into the supermarket, my local supermarket that was mainly
run run by men and having to ask them if
I had any pads, you know I did. I felt it.
You know, if I had a terrible stigma around, I
couldn't just go and have a browse and then pay
(01:22):
for them. I ended up actually having to get friends
to go in for me because the embarrassment got too much.
So I do think there are a whole lot of
challenges which we'll talk about in this episode
S3 (01:30):
and to help us address some of those challenges. We
have a line up of great guests, all coming with
a wealth of insights on this topic. But first, we
asked you how you manage your personal care and any
difficulties that you've come up against, and we've got some
really interesting answers.
S1 (01:46):
Nothing's off limits. With Tess and Polly Polly, personal hygiene
is a very personal thing. But when it comes to hygiene,
what do you think we should be talking about as
a community
S4 (02:02):
in the current climate is why it was such a
surprise for everyone to start washing your hands after you
went to the toilet at befuddles me that the conversation
we have to have with the community, there's just creepy.
I can't believe that we had the produce marketing materials
to remind people to wash their hands.
S5 (02:18):
Well, I guess over the last 12 months, washing hands
has been front and center. But I guess there are
other things such as oral hygiene, which can also help
with things like chocolate and just things like body odor
and having the ability to be able to have a
regular shower. I think the issues are pretty much the
same when it comes to hygiene because I guess we're
going to listen pat or probably got a heightened sense
(02:39):
of smell. So there's any bad body I do. I
can probably pick it up, maybe more than others. And
from a personal point of view, I can I can
smell themselves as well.
S6 (02:50):
It's more challenging because the meter and a half roll, etc.
is difficult for us to navigate. And quite frankly, it's
something that as much as you can try and accommodate it,
you can't really. It's challenging when you, for example, have
to queue up in a bank and they make you
sit down using the sanitizers, being able to find it
in some instances, or making sure you carry around the
(03:13):
issues of wearing masks.
S1 (03:15):
Accessible shaving equipment for men. More accessible was that men
who are blind or have low vision can shave.
S4 (03:23):
I think we should be talking about women's health as
a community. I also think we should be talking about
sexual activity.
S7 (03:31):
When you're in the blind community, seeing you don't have
that sense of seeing, but you do have other senses
that you use. So to me, smell is always really important.
So the importance of deodorants, perfumes, those sorts of things
that can also be a great identifier for in this community.
People know you often play a scent being conscious of
what other people might see in terms of hygiene and
(03:54):
how you need to take care of that and make
sure you know your hair is shiny, your fingernails are clean.
We need to be conscious of what other people are saying,
even if we're not seeing it.
S2 (04:04):
Personal hygiene. This is a tricky one to say, but
I have noticed in
S8 (04:08):
my blind, low vision community there are some people that
have challenges with this, and I think it can often
be politically incorrect to say something to them about it.
But I really think it's important to give you have
no vision.
S2 (04:23):
Then there's lots of stuff going on that you may
not
S8 (04:26):
be aware of unless you and if someone just pointed
out to you.
S1 (04:32):
You're listening to nothing's off limits. We're tense and poorly.
Produced by Vision Australia radio.
S2 (04:38):
I'd now like to introduce Ms. Schmidt. Emma May is
blind and is a music teacher living in Melbourne. She
has written a book called The Blind Girl's Guide to
Puberty and is here to tell us all about this MMI.
Thanks for being here.
S8 (04:53):
Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having me. What made you
S2 (04:55):
decide to write a book about puberty?
S8 (04:58):
Well, when I was a teenager and sort of late
primary school pre-teen teenage years, we we covered a lot
of things at Camp Sloane camp support skills. They would
talk about social skills and talk about self advocacy. I'd
even talk about presentation a little bit, but no one
really talked about puberty and grooming and things. And I
(05:20):
found that pretty odd because I would have thought it
was quite important, especially for blind girls, and my family
was quite open about a lot of it. But at
the same time, I just didn't know what it really
would feel like. So, for instance, of the period, I
sort of set off, what if I'm out and there's
just this kind of eruption of blood everywhere. And, you know,
(05:40):
I thought I was going to be pretty messy and
everyone else at school got to look at pictures and
we didn't get any pictures. Sometimes I do a kind
of 2D representation, but it didn't really help, and I
was always a little bit curious about female anatomy and stuff,
so I wanted to know what it looked like. And
so I kind of realized that it wasn't just me
that didn't quite know what was going on. So I thought, Well,
(06:00):
why don't I brought a few ideas as to what
things feel like, how things work? And it's really not
that bad because no one else seems to be talking
about this, of course.
S2 (06:11):
And I've been to those blind cats myself, and you
were absolutely right. It didn't get mentioned. It is not
a fun time. If you're a pre-teen, is it? You know,
all these changes are happening into your body
S8 (06:20):
and you feel like all your school friends get to know.
S2 (06:22):
Of course. Of course. You know, I have a vivid
memory of being 16 and my my best friend teaching
me teaching me how to use iPad. So you just
didn't get that education unless you got it through friends
and through talking about, is this wonderful book of yours?
What areas does it cover? What a detail does it
go into
S8 (06:41):
as little bit about me in that it has a
verbal description of the female reproductive system, so it talks
about the uterus being shaped like a pear, which we
were told in school. But it's not that helpful to see.
One thinks that the fallopian tubes and eggs sort of
travel down to the uterus, fertilize a baby or release
(07:03):
them when you have your period when it and. But
it only goes into that little bit of detail because
I say when you describe it, it's difficult. So what
I then suggest is that you can you can access
life dulls Vision Australia used to have them, actually. I
think that's still the case, but they're very handy if
you can get a 3D idea of what you look like.
The other reason I did that was because male reproductive
(07:26):
organs are external as a not. So it's, you know,
if you want an idea of how everything works, it's
it's a good way to look at it. And then
I talk a bit about bras because putting a bra
on when you are training bras is a little bit fiddly.
S2 (07:41):
It's terrifying.
S8 (07:42):
It's a little bit. So I have it again. I
have a little verbal descriptions of how to actually do it.
So I did that and took about what looks like
and then had a little bit of that going for
a fitting with a bra. Yes. Then we talk about
the main sort of topic, I guess, with the book,
which is menstruation and periods. So then I'm going to
(08:04):
have to put on a pad right from the start.
So how to open up the package and take it
out unfolded and put it on, and they're going to
have to put in a tampon because another thing came
up quite a bit in the discussion is just recently
with some friends, but even with me, it's just sort
of odd. I just don't wear one. My friends had
to help me at the beach. I just I just
(08:28):
didn't want to do it. And actually, if you want
to go swimming, you kind of need to. I thought, Well,
why not describe how to do it? A lot of
people do. It's just too hard. So I went into
detail about how to insert one and then I go
into sort of cleaning up after yourself. So taking, you know,
taking the pad off like pipeline out and where to
(08:49):
put the most public toilets have been next to the toilet.
I wasn't sure if girls were aware of that, so
I mentioned it and then I did a little bit
at the end about soaking. If you get a bit
on your knickers or your sheets and keep getting a
little cleaning everything up,
S2 (09:03):
that's the book. Yes, it sounds like you said it
was so many wonderful, so many wonderful details in the
book about how to do things that you might not
have thought you were able to do, which are, I
think it's a book that I would have loved to
have read when when I was younger would be a
key piece of advice, as it sounds to me like
you've had experience talking to younger women about going through puberty.
(09:24):
What's a key piece of advice that you would give
somebody who's just starting puberty?
S8 (09:29):
I think the key piece I would. Gives them more information,
and the more straight sort of straight talking you are
about it, the less bad it will sound because it's
less mysterious and so especially for parents safe and cited parents.
My advice would be try and think of everything that
you didn't have to think of. So it's all very
(09:50):
well to say that blood's going to come out of
your vagina. It means you're growing up. And also, you
get breasts and you'll have to start wearing bras. But
try and think of things like when you're out and
you go into a public toilet, there's going to be
being next to it or give them warning signs like
give them as much information as you can. So the
more information you give, the less bad and scary will
(10:11):
actually seem to be the main thing. That was the
main reason I wrote the book, actually.
S2 (10:16):
I think that's a fantastic way to end on and Emma.
Thank you so, so much for chatting to us today.
It's been a real pleasure.
S8 (10:26):
Thank you for having me.
S2 (10:30):
It's time to welcome our second guest, Bianca Patrick. Bianca
is blind and has lived experience of managing menstruation. Bianca
has a wealth of fascinating insights to share with us
on this topic. Bianca, thanks for being here. Thank you
for having me.
S3 (10:45):
Yeah, thanks so much for joining us, Bianca, and particularly
to talk about a topic which I think we're all
quite comfortable talking about, but some people less so. So
are there particular challenges to dealing with periods if you're
blind or have low vision?
S7 (10:59):
Yes, there are a lot of challenges for me in particular.
That's one of the first challenges was knowing what was
happening and when it was happening. A lot of people get,
you know, cramps on a specific day before that period
or they get crabby or whatever. But things just never
(11:19):
really showed me what was going on. One month, I'd
have a tummy ache. One month that had nothing. Nothing
was really there. That was a marker to tell me, OK, like,
am I going to get my period now? I wasn't
always prepared. And then ending up getting a period when
you really don't want to be getting a period, I
(11:40):
got it as I was just about to get on
a plane to a camp. Stress made it come early.
I was in the middle of an operation and I
got my period. But just, yeah, all sorts of stuff
like that.
S3 (11:50):
Do you think the level of education that's particularly targeted
at people who are blind to have no vision? Because
I know we've talked before about how a lot of
the information at school and a lot of the material
out there is really visual, you know, it's sort of
patches of of various anatomical things and what have you.
Do you think that there's still work to be done
in the space educating people from that perspective?
S7 (12:10):
The education is absolutely abysmal. I think there needs to
be a huge amount of work done and people need
to come to terms with the fact that their blind
children or their blind relatives or whatever are getting periods.
And that is a fact of life, and you can't
do anything about it or you can do is educate
(12:32):
them like you would educate your sighted relatives, but you
just have to do it in a in a non
visual way.
S8 (12:37):
And do you think
S3 (12:38):
there is a sense of embarrassment in the community talking
on this subject?
S7 (12:42):
Absolutely. There's a huge sense of embarrassment. I was talking
to a friend who was it's a bit of a
bit tangential, but it's it totally says everything in Japan.
They were talking about natural disasters and preparing for that
and all that, and they didn't have sanitary stuff or
baby formula or anything for people in those disaster areas
(13:04):
because it was men who were doing the doing the logistics.
Oh yeah, yeah,
S3 (13:11):
that does seem to be a more general squeamishness about it.
You know, it's the classic most of the appetizing. I
think there is one company who's actually started using red now,
but when they advertise sanitary products, it's always with this
mysterious blue liquid that shows absorbency rates and things. And
nobody parties that I didn't know that I didn't right.
The idea that, you know, seeing seeing blood on screen
(13:32):
is somehow too shocking and too revolting for us to
cope with. So, yes, I use a nice clinical looking
blue liquid in every single update on on television and
in magazines is extraordinary,
S7 (13:42):
which is very blueblood to a whole new level. I know,
I know.
S3 (13:47):
Can you talk a bit about the different options you've
got out there than managing your period?
S7 (13:52):
I have found having IUDs and implants. I had an
IUD for a long time. I need to correct myself.
I had an IUD for a long time. I have
an implant now and just an IUD.
S3 (14:03):
For those of us who aren't sure an IUD is
intrauterine device, is that right?
S7 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically, I had the marina and the
marina looks like eight times new Roman tee. It looks
like a capital T in print, which is a long
vertical line with a horizontal line on the top. And
the vertical line is such that there are two equal sides.
(14:31):
Going horizontally, but usually if you look at a T.,
It's just the two straight lines, but if you've got
two times you run into each, it's got these little
ticks going down the sides. So it's kind of like
a roof. This little device is full of, I think
it's progesterone and they inserted into your cervix and it
has little, little wires going out. Basically, what happened to
(14:53):
me was that I stopped getting periods. I also had
it for contraception because it's one of the most effective
contraception methods in case accidents happened. You get it put
in and you have it for five years and you
have no periods.
S3 (15:07):
And the people who are maybe less comfortable with having
something more invasive, let's go for the typical scenario you're
in the supermarket or the chemist and you've gone to
the sanitary products aisle. You're blind to the explosion. How
on earth do you navigate that? It's overwhelming enough when
you're sighted. There's so many choices.
S7 (15:25):
Research, I guess what I what I got myself was
a diva cup that is basically a little silicone medical
grade silicone top that you fold and you insert and
it covers your cervix. The blood drips into it and
then you empty it and then you re-enter it. And
(15:47):
you can basically put that on my shoe around the
time that you are going to get your period and
you can empty it every up to 12 hours. You
can get pads and you can get tampons as well,
but the menstrual cups are good. There are a few
different kinds this, but they're all silicone. I think there's
one or two that were latex, but we won't talk
(16:09):
about those. And the thing about them is that they
are environmentally friendly. They don't leave crap all over landfill.
They don't cause toxic shock syndrome like the tampons could
if if it's kept too long in place, things like that.
And there are about 20 or 30 bucks and they
last for about 10 years.
S3 (16:28):
And let's go through the worst case scenario. How would
you how would you advise people deal with the situation?
You're out, you're out and about, you're not ready for
it and it's decided to come nonetheless. You may have
a stain. You're not sure what
S7 (16:42):
do you do? A lot of people get really upset
and embarrassed, and years ago, I probably would have as well. Nowadays,
I'm just like, OK, I wasn't prepared. I have a
period if I look like, you know, I'll make a
joke about or something. Yeah, if I look like the
psycho movie and or like Freddy Krueger just had a
go at me or something, you know, like just just
(17:05):
some kind of thing, I think it's normal, like if
something's really, really bad. My instinct these days is to
act like it's normal and be like, OK, I got
my period. I got it early. I got it unexpectedly.
I'm probably going to stay in the absolute heck out
of everything right now. I'm probably going to need some
kind of help. And I'll ask some help. And you know,
(17:27):
and these days, I don't care if it's a guy
or a girl, I will ask for help where I
can get it.
S3 (17:33):
And you're right. I mean, you say acting like it's
normal absolutely is normal. And you know, that's happened to
all of us. And you just kind of roll your
eyes and get on with it. And I suppose the
the the classic soak everything in cold water is everyone's
best friend at this point, isn't it?
S7 (17:48):
Absolutely. See, people around me acted like it wasn't normal.
Got all embarrassed. I ended up in tears and it
didn't like it didn't change the fact that I had
my period.
S3 (17:59):
And so, Bianca to end. If you're someone who maybe
is just about to start cutting periods or maybe feel
like you haven't quite found the sweet spot in managing
your own, where might you go to find out more
about what options there are out there?
S7 (18:13):
If you're at school or something, go see the school nurse.
The school nurse needs to tell you about this sort
of stuff. They'll help you if if your parents are
not in a place to help you go find someone
who you trust. If you know, looking, sitting and looking
at the internet is a bit too impersonal, find someone
you trust and they will help you with this stuff
(18:33):
that maybe they'll take you out shopping. You can go
get them and still come on. Period underwear is a
good thing, too.
S3 (18:40):
Can you explain a bit about what that is?
S7 (18:42):
Yeah, I've never worn it, but it's underwear that absorbs
your period blood and a parent. Apparently, there's like light,
slow ones and heavy flow ones and bonds makes them
and a couple of other brands. What's a which is
there's one I heard about recently in the name. Just
going out
S3 (19:02):
of the body is the one called my
S7 (19:04):
body. Yes, yes there is. Yes, there is. Thank you.
Those would be nice and discreet, I guess, but find
someone who you can trust. And if you get your
first period soon, see if you can have a period
party I love that's supposed to be celebrated.
S3 (19:18):
I don't think I'll ever get to the celebratory stage,
but absolutely damn right. We should think it's as normal
as anything, and I hope that it's not going to
be too long before periods is not an appropriate topic
for something where we're looking at things that are off limits. Bianca, thank.
You so, so much for joining us, this has been
so helpful, and thank you for your frankness as well.
It's been really, really valuable for us. Thank you so much.
S7 (19:38):
Thank you.
S1 (19:41):
You're listening to nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly DG,
no vision Australia now provides a comprehensive set of telehealth
services to help you achieve your goals. For more information,
go to Vision Australia dot org or call one 800
eight four seven four double six. Visit Australia Blindness Low
Vision Opportunity.
S3 (20:01):
Our next guest is Amy Matthews. Amy is an occupational
therapist at Vision Australia and specialises in helping people who
are blind or have low vision develop the skills they
need to live the life they choose. Amy has lots
of handy tips and strategies for managing personal care, so
we're so thrilled to have you on the show. Thank
you so much, Amy.
S8 (20:20):
Thanks for having me. Amy, what strategies would you suggest
S2 (20:24):
to clients for managing menstruation?
S8 (20:26):
There are lots of different strategies available. They're all individual
to the clients. There are more options coming out all
the time. Something I really like for a client who's
struggling with managing pads and lining them up or having
issues with leakage is period pants. They're a fairly recent development,
(20:49):
and they're just like regular underwear. Except the pad is
built in, so you don't have to work out where
there's a sanitation bin in the toilet. Dealing with changing pads,
potentially when you're out, period pants mean they don't have
to change anything throughout the day. They've got special absorbent
(21:13):
material that I don't understand. I think it's magic material
that you can wear them all day and not feel
like you're wearing wet undies. You wear them for the day.
Then rinse them off in cold water. Rinse them with
some gentle soap. No fabric softener because fabric softener does
(21:35):
something to the fabric and deactivate the magic so they
stop absorbing anything, rinse them at the end of the
day and then wash them as you would all the
rest of your clothes for a couple of
S2 (21:48):
other things people can
S8 (21:49):
do. There are strategies that people might already know and
be aware of, like pads and tampons. Each have their
benefits and challenges. Some people find with menstruation pads that
they have some difficulty lining them up or making working
(22:09):
out where to position them in their underwear. I often
suggest people start with using pads that have wings, and
you can line the top of the wings up with
the little line or that double seam on the front
of your underwear. Most underwear will have a double layer
of fabric that little bit of extra protection that's not
(22:33):
intended for managing periods, but where the double layer of
fabric is is a really good guide for positioning your pads.
Because if it's obviously too high or too low, you
can get leakage at the top or the bottom. The
other thing that I would suggest for some people is
(22:54):
getting the longer pads so that if they are a
little bit boards or a little bit back, you've got
a bit of extra leeway. Young girls who are often
a lot smaller in structure and getting used to wearing pads,
they often find that having smaller, thinner ones and changing
(23:16):
them more regularly is their preferred method. A lot of
clients tell me that they don't know when to change
their pads. They can't see the amount of blood thinner.
If you've taken them off, the weight will be different,
but most people will change them at regular times in
(23:39):
the day, whether they set an alarm on their phone
or just carried the right note pads change them. It's
morning to lunch and afternoon tea.
S2 (23:52):
Now, puberty is a great time. It's not really. I mean,
we all love it because not only do we miss
them tonight are have absolutely we. We sometimes get our
periods and we can also get haze fry sprouting left,
right and centre on our bodies.
S8 (24:09):
You know, some people like
S2 (24:12):
like to keep these, these heads and some people like
journalism if you do like to remove them. What are
some ways in which people who are blind or have
low vision can
S8 (24:22):
safely remove these hairs on their body? It depends on
where the hairs are popping up. I, for one, am
very glad puberty is over and have just had the
joy of his popping up on my chin. I personally
don't feel I'm quite ready to embrace that look. Some
people do. But using your other senses to feel where
(24:43):
the hairs are to remove them. A lot of people
will use electric razors if they're deciding they don't want
hair on their legs or other pubic areas under their arms.
Electric razors have the advantage that they're less likely to
(25:05):
cut the skin. However, some people find they don't cut
as close. I've had a number of clients tell me
that men's electric razors cut better and closer than females
electric razors, so it's worth talking to people and working
out which ones they prefer. Some people also decide that
(25:28):
they don't want to remove their pubic hair completely, but
just trim it. There are also trimming options if shaving
or removing the hair isn't an option because they don't
like it growing back quickly, or it's too fussy or annoying.
There are different cream solutions that can bleach or remove hair.
(25:52):
Before you start on. Any of these always do a
patch test. Maybe talk to friends or family, talk to
your tea or your support worker. Even the assistance at
the pharmacy will provide advice on different products.
S2 (26:09):
How about public bathrooms? Have you experienced clients having difficulties
accessing public bathrooms?
S8 (26:16):
Yes, it's unfortunately a common issue, as a lot of
people will find themselves directed to a bathroom, but once
they're inside having difficulties getting around. I find clients will
often ask somebody to tell them in the bathroom where
the cubicles, where the sinks are they on the left
(26:39):
or the right. Asking for specific directions to the layout
of the bathroom with the toilet cubicles asking somebody in
advance which cubicle has a sanitation bin if they've got
their period and they need to safely dispose of pants?
Having a idea of a general layout makes navigating a
(27:04):
bit easier. Amy, where
S2 (27:06):
can women and men go if they want to find
out more information about managing their personal
S8 (27:12):
care? So if they're having specific issues or things, they
want to manage bit better. Men and women can talk
to their occupational therapist and work through their specific goals
where the barriers are and be more independent, managing their
personal care and cleaning for men and women.
S2 (27:34):
And you can access occupational therapy support via Vision Australia. Amy,
it's been wonderful having you on the show today. Thank
you so much for being here.
S8 (27:44):
Thank you for letting me share some of my knowledge.
S3 (27:47):
This is just the start of the conversation about personal care.
More information and some useful resources can be found on
the Vision Australia website, including an article with some handy
facts about periods.
S2 (27:59):
Remember, you can download each episode of Nothing's Off Limits
by going to the Vision Australia website. Just go to
Vision Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot org type.
Nothing's off limits into the search engine, and you'll be
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so you don't miss any. Or if you prefer, you
can just tune in vintage in Australia right here.
S3 (28:21):
Next time, we'll be talking about relationships. How to develop
and nurture positive relationships. Red flags to look out for.
And what to do about them. And we have a
great lineup of guests to help us, including a couple
of familiar voices. But until then, thank you to our
fantastic guests and thank you for joining us for the
show where nothing's off limits.
S1 (28:46):
That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of
efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant.
Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio,
dot org and access all there is to know about
our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia
(29:07):
dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode,
but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support,
so please share this podcast with just one person today
and brighten our day or write us on your preferred
podcast platform. Bye for now.
Nothing's off limits, things off limits. Bringing together experts and
people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love
to avoid, but absolutely need to talk about me with
the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages
and capacity building grants, including grants.
S2 (00:25):
Hello, and welcome to this fourth episode of Nothing's Off Limits.
My name is Tess and together with my co-host Polly.
We're continuing to delve into some of those topics which
you might normally consider off limits, including body image and appearance, relationships,
dating and identity, and much more. We'll be exploring them
(00:45):
openly and honestly through the specific lens of blindness and
low vision with the help of expert guests.
S3 (00:51):
Tess, I think regardless of age or experience, you know,
the whole thing around menstruation is a real challenge. Do
you think the challenge is greater for people with a disability?
S2 (01:01):
Look, I can really only speak to my personal experience,
but I remember even being, you know, in my mid
to late 20s and finding it very daunting having to
go into the supermarket, my local supermarket that was mainly
run run by men and having to ask them if
I had any pads, you know I did. I felt it.
You know, if I had a terrible stigma around, I
couldn't just go and have a browse and then pay
(01:22):
for them. I ended up actually having to get friends
to go in for me because the embarrassment got too much.
So I do think there are a whole lot of
challenges which we'll talk about in this episode
S3 (01:30):
and to help us address some of those challenges. We
have a line up of great guests, all coming with
a wealth of insights on this topic. But first, we
asked you how you manage your personal care and any
difficulties that you've come up against, and we've got some
really interesting answers.
S1 (01:46):
Nothing's off limits. With Tess and Polly Polly, personal hygiene
is a very personal thing. But when it comes to hygiene,
what do you think we should be talking about as
a community
S4 (02:02):
in the current climate is why it was such a
surprise for everyone to start washing your hands after you
went to the toilet at befuddles me that the conversation
we have to have with the community, there's just creepy.
I can't believe that we had the produce marketing materials
to remind people to wash their hands.
S5 (02:18):
Well, I guess over the last 12 months, washing hands
has been front and center. But I guess there are
other things such as oral hygiene, which can also help
with things like chocolate and just things like body odor
and having the ability to be able to have a
regular shower. I think the issues are pretty much the
same when it comes to hygiene because I guess we're
going to listen pat or probably got a heightened sense
(02:39):
of smell. So there's any bad body I do. I
can probably pick it up, maybe more than others. And
from a personal point of view, I can I can
smell themselves as well.
S6 (02:50):
It's more challenging because the meter and a half roll, etc.
is difficult for us to navigate. And quite frankly, it's
something that as much as you can try and accommodate it,
you can't really. It's challenging when you, for example, have
to queue up in a bank and they make you
sit down using the sanitizers, being able to find it
in some instances, or making sure you carry around the
(03:13):
issues of wearing masks.
S1 (03:15):
Accessible shaving equipment for men. More accessible was that men
who are blind or have low vision can shave.
S4 (03:23):
I think we should be talking about women's health as
a community. I also think we should be talking about
sexual activity.
S7 (03:31):
When you're in the blind community, seeing you don't have
that sense of seeing, but you do have other senses
that you use. So to me, smell is always really important.
So the importance of deodorants, perfumes, those sorts of things
that can also be a great identifier for in this community.
People know you often play a scent being conscious of
what other people might see in terms of hygiene and
(03:54):
how you need to take care of that and make
sure you know your hair is shiny, your fingernails are clean.
We need to be conscious of what other people are saying,
even if we're not seeing it.
S2 (04:04):
Personal hygiene. This is a tricky one to say, but
I have noticed in
S8 (04:08):
my blind, low vision community there are some people that
have challenges with this, and I think it can often
be politically incorrect to say something to them about it.
But I really think it's important to give you have
no vision.
S2 (04:23):
Then there's lots of stuff going on that you may
not
S8 (04:26):
be aware of unless you and if someone just pointed
out to you.
S1 (04:32):
You're listening to nothing's off limits. We're tense and poorly.
Produced by Vision Australia radio.
S2 (04:38):
I'd now like to introduce Ms. Schmidt. Emma May is
blind and is a music teacher living in Melbourne. She
has written a book called The Blind Girl's Guide to
Puberty and is here to tell us all about this MMI.
Thanks for being here.
S8 (04:53):
Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having me. What made you
S2 (04:55):
decide to write a book about puberty?
S8 (04:58):
Well, when I was a teenager and sort of late
primary school pre-teen teenage years, we we covered a lot
of things at Camp Sloane camp support skills. They would
talk about social skills and talk about self advocacy. I'd
even talk about presentation a little bit, but no one
really talked about puberty and grooming and things. And I
(05:20):
found that pretty odd because I would have thought it
was quite important, especially for blind girls, and my family
was quite open about a lot of it. But at
the same time, I just didn't know what it really
would feel like. So, for instance, of the period, I
sort of set off, what if I'm out and there's
just this kind of eruption of blood everywhere. And, you know,
(05:40):
I thought I was going to be pretty messy and
everyone else at school got to look at pictures and
we didn't get any pictures. Sometimes I do a kind
of 2D representation, but it didn't really help, and I
was always a little bit curious about female anatomy and stuff,
so I wanted to know what it looked like. And
so I kind of realized that it wasn't just me
that didn't quite know what was going on. So I thought, Well,
(06:00):
why don't I brought a few ideas as to what
things feel like, how things work? And it's really not
that bad because no one else seems to be talking
about this, of course.
S2 (06:11):
And I've been to those blind cats myself, and you
were absolutely right. It didn't get mentioned. It is not
a fun time. If you're a pre-teen, is it? You know,
all these changes are happening into your body
S8 (06:20):
and you feel like all your school friends get to know.
S2 (06:22):
Of course. Of course. You know, I have a vivid
memory of being 16 and my my best friend teaching
me teaching me how to use iPad. So you just
didn't get that education unless you got it through friends
and through talking about, is this wonderful book of yours?
What areas does it cover? What a detail does it
go into
S8 (06:41):
as little bit about me in that it has a
verbal description of the female reproductive system, so it talks
about the uterus being shaped like a pear, which we
were told in school. But it's not that helpful to see.
One thinks that the fallopian tubes and eggs sort of
travel down to the uterus, fertilize a baby or release
(07:03):
them when you have your period when it and. But
it only goes into that little bit of detail because
I say when you describe it, it's difficult. So what
I then suggest is that you can you can access
life dulls Vision Australia used to have them, actually. I
think that's still the case, but they're very handy if
you can get a 3D idea of what you look like.
The other reason I did that was because male reproductive
(07:26):
organs are external as a not. So it's, you know,
if you want an idea of how everything works, it's
it's a good way to look at it. And then
I talk a bit about bras because putting a bra
on when you are training bras is a little bit fiddly.
S2 (07:41):
It's terrifying.
S8 (07:42):
It's a little bit. So I have it again. I
have a little verbal descriptions of how to actually do it.
So I did that and took about what looks like
and then had a little bit of that going for
a fitting with a bra. Yes. Then we talk about
the main sort of topic, I guess, with the book,
which is menstruation and periods. So then I'm going to
(08:04):
have to put on a pad right from the start.
So how to open up the package and take it
out unfolded and put it on, and they're going to
have to put in a tampon because another thing came
up quite a bit in the discussion is just recently
with some friends, but even with me, it's just sort
of odd. I just don't wear one. My friends had
to help me at the beach. I just I just
(08:28):
didn't want to do it. And actually, if you want
to go swimming, you kind of need to. I thought, Well,
why not describe how to do it? A lot of
people do. It's just too hard. So I went into
detail about how to insert one and then I go
into sort of cleaning up after yourself. So taking, you know,
taking the pad off like pipeline out and where to
(08:49):
put the most public toilets have been next to the toilet.
I wasn't sure if girls were aware of that, so
I mentioned it and then I did a little bit
at the end about soaking. If you get a bit
on your knickers or your sheets and keep getting a
little cleaning everything up,
S2 (09:03):
that's the book. Yes, it sounds like you said it
was so many wonderful, so many wonderful details in the
book about how to do things that you might not
have thought you were able to do, which are, I
think it's a book that I would have loved to
have read when when I was younger would be a
key piece of advice, as it sounds to me like
you've had experience talking to younger women about going through puberty.
(09:24):
What's a key piece of advice that you would give
somebody who's just starting puberty?
S8 (09:29):
I think the key piece I would. Gives them more information,
and the more straight sort of straight talking you are
about it, the less bad it will sound because it's
less mysterious and so especially for parents safe and cited parents.
My advice would be try and think of everything that
you didn't have to think of. So it's all very
(09:50):
well to say that blood's going to come out of
your vagina. It means you're growing up. And also, you
get breasts and you'll have to start wearing bras. But
try and think of things like when you're out and
you go into a public toilet, there's going to be
being next to it or give them warning signs like
give them as much information as you can. So the
more information you give, the less bad and scary will
(10:11):
actually seem to be the main thing. That was the
main reason I wrote the book, actually.
S2 (10:16):
I think that's a fantastic way to end on and Emma.
Thank you so, so much for chatting to us today.
It's been a real pleasure.
S8 (10:26):
Thank you for having me.
S2 (10:30):
It's time to welcome our second guest, Bianca Patrick. Bianca
is blind and has lived experience of managing menstruation. Bianca
has a wealth of fascinating insights to share with us
on this topic. Bianca, thanks for being here. Thank you
for having me.
S3 (10:45):
Yeah, thanks so much for joining us, Bianca, and particularly
to talk about a topic which I think we're all
quite comfortable talking about, but some people less so. So
are there particular challenges to dealing with periods if you're
blind or have low vision?
S7 (10:59):
Yes, there are a lot of challenges for me in particular.
That's one of the first challenges was knowing what was
happening and when it was happening. A lot of people get,
you know, cramps on a specific day before that period
or they get crabby or whatever. But things just never
(11:19):
really showed me what was going on. One month, I'd
have a tummy ache. One month that had nothing. Nothing
was really there. That was a marker to tell me, OK, like,
am I going to get my period now? I wasn't
always prepared. And then ending up getting a period when
you really don't want to be getting a period, I
(11:40):
got it as I was just about to get on
a plane to a camp. Stress made it come early.
I was in the middle of an operation and I
got my period. But just, yeah, all sorts of stuff
like that.
S3 (11:50):
Do you think the level of education that's particularly targeted
at people who are blind to have no vision? Because
I know we've talked before about how a lot of
the information at school and a lot of the material
out there is really visual, you know, it's sort of
patches of of various anatomical things and what have you.
Do you think that there's still work to be done
in the space educating people from that perspective?
S7 (12:10):
The education is absolutely abysmal. I think there needs to
be a huge amount of work done and people need
to come to terms with the fact that their blind
children or their blind relatives or whatever are getting periods.
And that is a fact of life, and you can't
do anything about it or you can do is educate
(12:32):
them like you would educate your sighted relatives, but you
just have to do it in a in a non
visual way.
S8 (12:37):
And do you think
S3 (12:38):
there is a sense of embarrassment in the community talking
on this subject?
S7 (12:42):
Absolutely. There's a huge sense of embarrassment. I was talking
to a friend who was it's a bit of a
bit tangential, but it's it totally says everything in Japan.
They were talking about natural disasters and preparing for that
and all that, and they didn't have sanitary stuff or
baby formula or anything for people in those disaster areas
(13:04):
because it was men who were doing the doing the logistics.
Oh yeah, yeah,
S3 (13:11):
that does seem to be a more general squeamishness about it.
You know, it's the classic most of the appetizing. I
think there is one company who's actually started using red now,
but when they advertise sanitary products, it's always with this
mysterious blue liquid that shows absorbency rates and things. And
nobody parties that I didn't know that I didn't right.
The idea that, you know, seeing seeing blood on screen
(13:32):
is somehow too shocking and too revolting for us to
cope with. So, yes, I use a nice clinical looking
blue liquid in every single update on on television and
in magazines is extraordinary,
S7 (13:42):
which is very blueblood to a whole new level. I know,
I know.
S3 (13:47):
Can you talk a bit about the different options you've
got out there than managing your period?
S7 (13:52):
I have found having IUDs and implants. I had an
IUD for a long time. I need to correct myself.
I had an IUD for a long time. I have
an implant now and just an IUD.
S3 (14:03):
For those of us who aren't sure an IUD is
intrauterine device, is that right?
S7 (14:09):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically, I had the marina and the
marina looks like eight times new Roman tee. It looks
like a capital T in print, which is a long
vertical line with a horizontal line on the top. And
the vertical line is such that there are two equal sides.
(14:31):
Going horizontally, but usually if you look at a T.,
It's just the two straight lines, but if you've got
two times you run into each, it's got these little
ticks going down the sides. So it's kind of like
a roof. This little device is full of, I think
it's progesterone and they inserted into your cervix and it
has little, little wires going out. Basically, what happened to
(14:53):
me was that I stopped getting periods. I also had
it for contraception because it's one of the most effective
contraception methods in case accidents happened. You get it put
in and you have it for five years and you
have no periods.
S3 (15:07):
And the people who are maybe less comfortable with having
something more invasive, let's go for the typical scenario you're
in the supermarket or the chemist and you've gone to
the sanitary products aisle. You're blind to the explosion. How
on earth do you navigate that? It's overwhelming enough when
you're sighted. There's so many choices.
S7 (15:25):
Research, I guess what I what I got myself was
a diva cup that is basically a little silicone medical
grade silicone top that you fold and you insert and
it covers your cervix. The blood drips into it and
then you empty it and then you re-enter it. And
(15:47):
you can basically put that on my shoe around the
time that you are going to get your period and
you can empty it every up to 12 hours. You
can get pads and you can get tampons as well,
but the menstrual cups are good. There are a few
different kinds this, but they're all silicone. I think there's
one or two that were latex, but we won't talk
(16:09):
about those. And the thing about them is that they
are environmentally friendly. They don't leave crap all over landfill.
They don't cause toxic shock syndrome like the tampons could
if if it's kept too long in place, things like that.
And there are about 20 or 30 bucks and they
last for about 10 years.
S3 (16:28):
And let's go through the worst case scenario. How would
you how would you advise people deal with the situation?
You're out, you're out and about, you're not ready for
it and it's decided to come nonetheless. You may have
a stain. You're not sure what
S7 (16:42):
do you do? A lot of people get really upset
and embarrassed, and years ago, I probably would have as well. Nowadays,
I'm just like, OK, I wasn't prepared. I have a
period if I look like, you know, I'll make a
joke about or something. Yeah, if I look like the
psycho movie and or like Freddy Krueger just had a
go at me or something, you know, like just just
(17:05):
some kind of thing, I think it's normal, like if
something's really, really bad. My instinct these days is to
act like it's normal and be like, OK, I got
my period. I got it early. I got it unexpectedly.
I'm probably going to stay in the absolute heck out
of everything right now. I'm probably going to need some
kind of help. And I'll ask some help. And you know,
(17:27):
and these days, I don't care if it's a guy
or a girl, I will ask for help where I
can get it.
S3 (17:33):
And you're right. I mean, you say acting like it's
normal absolutely is normal. And you know, that's happened to
all of us. And you just kind of roll your
eyes and get on with it. And I suppose the
the the classic soak everything in cold water is everyone's
best friend at this point, isn't it?
S7 (17:48):
Absolutely. See, people around me acted like it wasn't normal.
Got all embarrassed. I ended up in tears and it
didn't like it didn't change the fact that I had
my period.
S3 (17:59):
And so, Bianca to end. If you're someone who maybe
is just about to start cutting periods or maybe feel
like you haven't quite found the sweet spot in managing
your own, where might you go to find out more
about what options there are out there?
S7 (18:13):
If you're at school or something, go see the school nurse.
The school nurse needs to tell you about this sort
of stuff. They'll help you if if your parents are
not in a place to help you go find someone
who you trust. If you know, looking, sitting and looking
at the internet is a bit too impersonal, find someone
you trust and they will help you with this stuff
(18:33):
that maybe they'll take you out shopping. You can go
get them and still come on. Period underwear is a
good thing, too.
S3 (18:40):
Can you explain a bit about what that is?
S7 (18:42):
Yeah, I've never worn it, but it's underwear that absorbs
your period blood and a parent. Apparently, there's like light,
slow ones and heavy flow ones and bonds makes them
and a couple of other brands. What's a which is
there's one I heard about recently in the name. Just
going out
S3 (19:02):
of the body is the one called my
S7 (19:04):
body. Yes, yes there is. Yes, there is. Thank you.
Those would be nice and discreet, I guess, but find
someone who you can trust. And if you get your
first period soon, see if you can have a period
party I love that's supposed to be celebrated.
S3 (19:18):
I don't think I'll ever get to the celebratory stage,
but absolutely damn right. We should think it's as normal
as anything, and I hope that it's not going to
be too long before periods is not an appropriate topic
for something where we're looking at things that are off limits. Bianca, thank.
You so, so much for joining us, this has been
so helpful, and thank you for your frankness as well.
It's been really, really valuable for us. Thank you so much.
S7 (19:38):
Thank you.
S1 (19:41):
You're listening to nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly DG,
no vision Australia now provides a comprehensive set of telehealth
services to help you achieve your goals. For more information,
go to Vision Australia dot org or call one 800
eight four seven four double six. Visit Australia Blindness Low
Vision Opportunity.
S3 (20:01):
Our next guest is Amy Matthews. Amy is an occupational
therapist at Vision Australia and specialises in helping people who
are blind or have low vision develop the skills they
need to live the life they choose. Amy has lots
of handy tips and strategies for managing personal care, so
we're so thrilled to have you on the show. Thank
you so much, Amy.
S8 (20:20):
Thanks for having me. Amy, what strategies would you suggest
S2 (20:24):
to clients for managing menstruation?
S8 (20:26):
There are lots of different strategies available. They're all individual
to the clients. There are more options coming out all
the time. Something I really like for a client who's
struggling with managing pads and lining them up or having
issues with leakage is period pants. They're a fairly recent development,
(20:49):
and they're just like regular underwear. Except the pad is
built in, so you don't have to work out where
there's a sanitation bin in the toilet. Dealing with changing pads,
potentially when you're out, period pants mean they don't have
to change anything throughout the day. They've got special absorbent
(21:13):
material that I don't understand. I think it's magic material
that you can wear them all day and not feel
like you're wearing wet undies. You wear them for the day.
Then rinse them off in cold water. Rinse them with
some gentle soap. No fabric softener because fabric softener does
(21:35):
something to the fabric and deactivate the magic so they
stop absorbing anything, rinse them at the end of the
day and then wash them as you would all the
rest of your clothes for a couple of
S2 (21:48):
other things people can
S8 (21:49):
do. There are strategies that people might already know and
be aware of, like pads and tampons. Each have their
benefits and challenges. Some people find with menstruation pads that
they have some difficulty lining them up or making working
(22:09):
out where to position them in their underwear. I often
suggest people start with using pads that have wings, and
you can line the top of the wings up with
the little line or that double seam on the front
of your underwear. Most underwear will have a double layer
of fabric that little bit of extra protection that's not
(22:33):
intended for managing periods, but where the double layer of
fabric is is a really good guide for positioning your pads.
Because if it's obviously too high or too low, you
can get leakage at the top or the bottom. The
other thing that I would suggest for some people is
(22:54):
getting the longer pads so that if they are a
little bit boards or a little bit back, you've got
a bit of extra leeway. Young girls who are often
a lot smaller in structure and getting used to wearing pads,
they often find that having smaller, thinner ones and changing
(23:16):
them more regularly is their preferred method. A lot of
clients tell me that they don't know when to change
their pads. They can't see the amount of blood thinner.
If you've taken them off, the weight will be different,
but most people will change them at regular times in
(23:39):
the day, whether they set an alarm on their phone
or just carried the right note pads change them. It's
morning to lunch and afternoon tea.
S2 (23:52):
Now, puberty is a great time. It's not really. I mean,
we all love it because not only do we miss
them tonight are have absolutely we. We sometimes get our
periods and we can also get haze fry sprouting left,
right and centre on our bodies.
S8 (24:09):
You know, some people like
S2 (24:12):
like to keep these, these heads and some people like
journalism if you do like to remove them. What are
some ways in which people who are blind or have
low vision can
S8 (24:22):
safely remove these hairs on their body? It depends on
where the hairs are popping up. I, for one, am
very glad puberty is over and have just had the
joy of his popping up on my chin. I personally
don't feel I'm quite ready to embrace that look. Some
people do. But using your other senses to feel where
(24:43):
the hairs are to remove them. A lot of people
will use electric razors if they're deciding they don't want
hair on their legs or other pubic areas under their arms.
Electric razors have the advantage that they're less likely to
(25:05):
cut the skin. However, some people find they don't cut
as close. I've had a number of clients tell me
that men's electric razors cut better and closer than females
electric razors, so it's worth talking to people and working
out which ones they prefer. Some people also decide that
(25:28):
they don't want to remove their pubic hair completely, but
just trim it. There are also trimming options if shaving
or removing the hair isn't an option because they don't
like it growing back quickly, or it's too fussy or annoying.
There are different cream solutions that can bleach or remove hair.
(25:52):
Before you start on. Any of these always do a
patch test. Maybe talk to friends or family, talk to
your tea or your support worker. Even the assistance at
the pharmacy will provide advice on different products.
S2 (26:09):
How about public bathrooms? Have you experienced clients having difficulties
accessing public bathrooms?
S8 (26:16):
Yes, it's unfortunately a common issue, as a lot of
people will find themselves directed to a bathroom, but once
they're inside having difficulties getting around. I find clients will
often ask somebody to tell them in the bathroom where
the cubicles, where the sinks are they on the left
(26:39):
or the right. Asking for specific directions to the layout
of the bathroom with the toilet cubicles asking somebody in
advance which cubicle has a sanitation bin if they've got
their period and they need to safely dispose of pants?
Having a idea of a general layout makes navigating a
(27:04):
bit easier. Amy, where
S2 (27:06):
can women and men go if they want to find
out more information about managing their personal
S8 (27:12):
care? So if they're having specific issues or things, they
want to manage bit better. Men and women can talk
to their occupational therapist and work through their specific goals
where the barriers are and be more independent, managing their
personal care and cleaning for men and women.
S2 (27:34):
And you can access occupational therapy support via Vision Australia. Amy,
it's been wonderful having you on the show today. Thank
you so much for being here.
S8 (27:44):
Thank you for letting me share some of my knowledge.
S3 (27:47):
This is just the start of the conversation about personal care.
More information and some useful resources can be found on
the Vision Australia website, including an article with some handy
facts about periods.
S2 (27:59):
Remember, you can download each episode of Nothing's Off Limits
by going to the Vision Australia website. Just go to
Vision Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot org type.
Nothing's off limits into the search engine, and you'll be
directed to my web page where you can listen to
this and other episodes and do make sure you subscribe
so you don't miss any. Or if you prefer, you
can just tune in vintage in Australia right here.
S3 (28:21):
Next time, we'll be talking about relationships. How to develop
and nurture positive relationships. Red flags to look out for.
And what to do about them. And we have a
great lineup of guests to help us, including a couple
of familiar voices. But until then, thank you to our
fantastic guests and thank you for joining us for the
show where nothing's off limits.
S1 (28:46):
That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of
efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant.
Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio,
dot org and access all there is to know about
our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia
(29:07):
dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode,
but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support,
so please share this podcast with just one person today
and brighten our day or write us on your preferred
podcast platform. Bye for now.
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