March 6, 2023 • 41 mins
Former Olympic sprinter Patrick Johnson has joined Sport Integrity Australia as a Culture and Safety Advisor to ensure our responses are appropriate and informed.
In this edition of On Side, Patrick talks about his role in helping to develop an agency and a sporting landscape that is culturally capable, respectful and engaging.
“I think there's a shift to understanding sport as a vehicle for health, for education, to awareness, but also know what it means around reconciliation,” he says. “And I think that there's a sense of the next nine years until Brisbane 2032 that we want to ensure that all Australians are part of the Olympic Games and part of sport and that's probably a bigger picture that we've looked at.”
He says the shift is even more important with the 2032 Olympics on the horizon.
“You can see the shift around real respect, real acknowledgment and real understanding. There has to be a pathway regardless of where you live in this country. If you want to be a great sports person then let's make sure you have the opportunity ... It should be not just for the rich, it should be for every single person in this country to aspire, believe and could be part of.”
He says the great thing about many athletes is that they are driving the change themselves because they see Australia and sport as diverse and multicultural.
“But how do we ensure that it's for everyone? And I think the great thing that we've got in Australia, there's a real movement within athletes in this country that are really the game changers.”
Best known for being the only Australian man to smash the 10-second barrier for the 100m, Patrick also discusses his career path, the importance of language, the role of the media, and his hopes for the future of sport.
We also talk to former Australian Diamond captain and world champion Caitlin Bassett who, too, has recently taken up a role at Sport Integrity Australia as an Athlete Educator.
Education has come a long way since she began her career, she says.
“The information that I was getting at the start of my career and the information I was getting at the end was vastly different,” she says. “I was always learning every time we came together to do an education session, whether it being around drugs and sport, whether it be around integrity issues, around wagering and betting in sport and things like that, it was always something new and something learning because sport was evolving at such a rapid rate.”
For many years the poster girl for Australian netball, she says the profile also came at a price, particularly when social media came along.
“By opening up your life and sharing your life to them “[fans] is a great way, I guess, to bring them along on the ride with you,” she says, “but you are also opening yourself up to the negative side and that is obviously abuse and some of the unkind comments that come along with it.”
Those comments were not only from “fans” ready to critique her performance, but from disgruntled gamblers, she says.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:01):
I think there's a shift to understanding sport as a
vehicle for health, for education, to awareness, but also knowing
what it means around reconciliation, the shift around, you know,
a real respect, real acknowledgement and real understanding. There has
to be a pathway, regardless of where you live in
this country, if you want to be a great sportsperson,
(00:22):
then let's make sure you have the opportunity. It shouldn't
matter if you're a rural or remote. Communities shouldn't be
mad if you're black, white or brindle. Whatever background, you
should be able to give the same opportunities that everyone else.
S2 (00:33):
If the sporting organisation is using your image and using
you to promote their brand, they also need to be
responsible for helping keep you safe. Like I can throw
and catch a netball and that's great, but how is
that going to help me in the real world? And
it's really nice, um, to, to be working this education
role and understand that the things that I learnt during
sport is now so relevant in helping me, helping others.
S3 (01:03):
Welcome to onside, the official podcast of Sport Integrity Australia.
Our mission is to protect the integrity of sport and
the health and welfare of those who participate in Australian sport.
S4 (01:19):
Hello and welcome to onside, the official podcast for Sport
Integrity Australia. I'm Tim Giveall. In this podcast, we speak
to athletes, coaches and administrators and examine the issues that
affect sport. Answer your questions and educate you about clean
and fair sport. Well, it's been a busy start to
the year with the launch of Sport Integrity, Australia's new
(01:41):
safety and sport division. It includes a new hotline capability
to provide a place for anyone in sport, past or present,
to be heard and seek support. The Safe Sport Hotline
is part of an expanded service offered to members of
the sport to share their story about integrity issues they've experienced.
The service includes an anonymous reporting capability which covers wider
(02:03):
racial and cultural issues in sport. For people who feel
as though they've been discriminated against in their sport. Call
1800 161 361 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., seven days a week
to share your story. Former Olympic sprinter Patrick Johnson has
also joined the agency as a safety and cultural advisor
to ensure our responses are appropriate and informed. Patrick will
(02:27):
provide strategic leadership to our agency and sport in Australia
in the areas of diversity and inclusion, with the aim
of developing an agency that's culturally capable, respectful and engaging
while helping us guide education for delivery to all levels
of sport in Australia. We'll talk to Patrick shortly. We'll
also be joined by former Australian diamond captain and world
(02:48):
champion Caitlin Bassett, who has recently taken up a role
at Sport Integrity Australia as an athlete educator. But firstly,
to Patrick Johnson, Patrick is a Kaanju man from far
north Queensland who's best known for being the first man
of non-African descent to smash the ten second barrier for
the 100m. A dual Olympian, Patrick has an extensive career
(03:12):
off the track that includes ten years in the Department
of Foreign Affairs and Trade, more than 20 years of
advocacy work for equal rights for all Australians, in addition
to numerous indigenous leadership roles. Patrick is the inaugural chair
of the AOC's Indigenous Advisory Committee, and is on the
Organising Committee for the Olympic Games Board for Brisbane 2032.
(03:34):
And he joins us now. Well, Patrick, firstly welcome to
Sport Integrity Australia. I guess culture is a very important
part of sport these days.
S1 (03:42):
Yeah, definitely. And I think that's something that really great
to be part of Sport Integrity Australia particularly around you know,
we talk about cultural aspects and education and awareness. And
I think it's something that as a country and in
sport that we really are making a lot of inroads
to that space, but everyone's on their different journeys, so
(04:04):
it's really important to have that respect. Um, but we
have to lead by example. And I think that's where,
you know, part of my role here at Sport Integrity
Australia is to really ensure that we are leading that space.
S4 (04:16):
Sport can be a driver counted in the lead up
to the 2032 Brisbane Olympic Games. There's a feeling that
the sport can drive cultural change wider than sport, and
that's why it's so important to embed it into sport.
S1 (04:29):
Yeah, and I think there's a shift to understanding sport
as a vehicle for health, for education, to awareness, but
also knowing what it means around reconciliation. And I think
there's a sense of the next nine years until Brisbane 2032,
that we want to ensure that all Australians are a
part of the Olympic Games and part of sport, and
(04:51):
that's probably a bigger picture that we've looked at and
bigger change that's happening in Australian sport that we have
to call out racism, we have to call out inequality,
we have to create real space for culturally safe spaces
around diversity and inclusion. And I think that's the shift
that's happening in this country. And of course, we've got
a long way to go in certain sports and certain realities.
(05:13):
But I think if we have good leaders in this
space and everyone sort of buys into it and understands
why we're doing it, then it's a real game changer
in what we're doing leading into 2032. But it's also
ten years post the Olympic Games, which is really important
to really leave a legacy that's really meaningful.
S4 (05:33):
Personally, did you experience much racism coming through as a sprinter?
S1 (05:38):
Not as much. Um, there was always some racist taunts, but, um,
I was fairly fortunate where, um, my running, I did
the talking on the track. Um, but also, I think
in track and field, uh, you had a lot of diversity.
And again, I was competing against Americans, Jamaicans and the
rest of the world. So it probably wasn't a space
(05:59):
for racism, but it still occurs. And I think this
is the biggest issue that we've got in sport is
to making sure that we have no tolerance for it
at every level, from grassroots all to high performance. And again,
it's dealing with the unconscious bias as well that people
may have over the years. So it's actually addressing that,
which is really important component where people don't even know
(06:21):
they're saying certain things that may be racist or may be,
you know, affecting, you know, the, the staff or to
athletes or anyone. So we've already got a really be
really inward thinking about how we reflect on our conversations
and how we think. And that's a shift that, um,
as part of sport has a great vehicle in doing
(06:41):
because sport breaks down all the barriers of religion, race, culture.
It brings people together. So how do we make sure
sport then influences and educates in the right way?
S4 (06:54):
Because discrimination still exists in sport. And, you know, that
is I guess, where culture comes into it. But with
racism it can lead to discrimination as well. I guess
at a grassroots level, that's where you'd be trying to
sort of integrate racism. Discrimination has no place in sport.
S1 (07:13):
Yeah, it has to be at all levels. And that's
really important from grassroots, of course, you know, they they
don't know nothing about racism. And unless they learn it from,
you know, where they play or what they do. So
it's actually educating everyone involved, from parents to coaches to,
you know, sporting organizations that there's no tolerance for racism, bullying,
harassment and you name it. It's really important that, you know,
(07:36):
we understand why it happens. And I think there's that
educational piece where you can say no to racism, but
what's it really mean? So there's that educational piece of
why are people racists? Or why are people bullying or
being harassed? So it's really been clear, you know, understanding
the reasons behind it and ensuring that we understand we
(07:57):
don't have any tolerance for it. So we don't have
a place for that in this country and particularly in sport.
S4 (08:03):
Do you find it's an uncomfortable conversation to have with
some people who probably don't know any different?
S1 (08:10):
Yeah, it's always uncomfortable, but I think you have to
have an open dialogue. You have to start somewhere. Um,
and again, it's how you approach that. Um, you know,
you have people that, you know, as I mentioned, may
have an unconscious bias of saying certain things that not
really appropriate because they've they've said the same thing for
the last 30 or 40 years. But how do we
(08:31):
ensure that we educate them in a way that say, well,
hang on, that's not really appropriate? Um, what you've actually
said is pretty, you know, meaningful and it is racist
towards who I am and my culture and my people
or my religion or whatnot. So it's actually I'm a
big person on calling it out, but also educating because,
you know, again, some people are blatantly racist. Yes. You've
(08:53):
got to call them out and you've got to put
them into place. But it's also understanding that some people
that don't mean to do it because they actually didn't
think it was an issue. So it's actually changing the
hearts and minds of individuals from the grassroots to high performance, from,
you know, parents to referees to coaches to administrators to
start saying, hang on, we need to just take a
(09:14):
moment here. What do we actually mean by being culturally appropriate?
How do we actually make sure this space is safe
for everyone, regardless of your nationality or background? But we
want to make sure we're the leaders for our kids
because everything will I do, and we do, I hope,
is for leaving a a greater legacy for our kids.
S4 (09:36):
When you go to the Sports Commission, you're dealing with
elite athletes. Chair of the indigenous committee at the Australian
Olympic Committee. Do you find that it resonates, the message
that you're you're telling elite athletes, this is what you
should be saying, this is what you should be doing,
and this is how you should act. Um, so that
(09:57):
it is culturally appropriate. Are you finding that message is
getting through?
S1 (10:00):
Yeah. I think, you know, the great thing about, you know,
a lot of the athletes I've dealt with and even
through the Olympic movement that athletes are really, you know, actively,
you know, buying into this, they want to ensure that
there are culturally appropriate because they see Australia as a
very diverse and multicultural and sport is. But how do
(10:21):
we ensure that it's for everyone? And I think the
great thing that we've got in Australia, there's a real
movement within athletes in this country that are really the
game changers. They're changing the way people perceive sport and
athletes themselves because, you know, if you don't have it
leading by our athletes and our superstars, not only from
(10:41):
our people, that's well known, but from the athletes, from
the grassroots. Um, then it's very, very hard to continue
the education because it's not driven by the ones that
are really affected by it.
S4 (10:53):
It's not entirely easy, though, is it? Because there is racism,
let's face it, in Australia and racism occurs at many
different levels. And you mentioned there a moment ago the
casual racism where people may not understand or really, um,
I guess believe that they're being racist, whereas it's the
(11:14):
blatant racism, um, which can be incredibly hurtful and is
directed towards somebody. So it still exists in Australia, doesn't it? Yeah.
S1 (11:22):
We can't sort of say it doesn't. Um, and it's
really important that we all as individuals have, you know,
responsibility to call it out. Uh, if you have a
mate that's been racist and, you know, you have to
call that out.
S4 (11:34):
Have you had that experience yourself?
S1 (11:36):
I've. I've had sort of, um, certain mates that have
said things jokingly. I said, mate, I'm sorry, mate, that's
not appropriate. And they go, but we know each other.
I said, no, no mate, I'm sorry but understand and
and it's just educating, you know, there's going to be
people that are, you know, whatever life, they're always going
to be racist to, you know, they're not going to
be ignorant to some of the the real issues that
(11:58):
are happening on the ground and where people come from,
and they have their own stigma around cultures and people. So, again,
it shouldn't be left up to the people of culture
to call it out. It has to be every single
person's responsibility regardless black, white or brindle. You call it
out because you know it's wrong.
S4 (12:18):
Within the Olympic movement, are there enough indigenous athletes taking
part in in sport?
S1 (12:24):
Oh yeah. There's been 69 indigenous Olympians over the course
of the Olympic movement. But of course we would like
to see more. And that's probably the big shift that's
happening where leading into, of course, the nine years into 2032.
But you can see the sports, the, you know, the
shift around, you know, a real respect, real acknowledgement and
(12:45):
real understanding. There has to be a pathway, regardless of
where you live in this country, if you want to
be a great sports person, then let's make sure you
have the opportunity. It shouldn't matter if you're a rural
or remote communities. It shouldn't be mad if you're black,
white or brindle. Whatever background, you should be able to
give the same opportunities that everyone else and I know
it's not there, but I think there's a shift that's happening. Uh,
(13:07):
and that's something that I'm passionate about to ensure that,
let's say the Olympic movement itself should be not just
for the rich, it should be for every single person
in this country to aspire, believe, and could be part of.
S4 (13:19):
With your workshops. What do you talk about when you
talk to elite athletes? Performance, high performance people. What do
you talk about?
S1 (13:26):
Well, first is probably getting their knowledge and understanding. So
I'm a big believer is actually understanding what they know.
So we can talk about cultural safe places. You can
talk about culture and integrity authority. You know cultural education.
But everyone's on a different journey, so it's really important
to connect with people. And that's one of the bigger
(13:48):
issues I have, is you have to connect with your
audience and the people you're talking to, not talk at them.
S4 (13:53):
Don't lecture them.
S1 (13:54):
Yeah, it's really important you bring them along on the journey.
So that's the shift that I make where it's not
me just presenting about, you know, being, you know, a
cultural safe space and what it means to have, you know,
respect for Aboriginal peoples and cultures and histories. It's about
what do you know? And how do we get you
on that journey, that it's meaningful, but it's also it
(14:17):
resonates to you and you can have the lived experience.
It's not just ticking a box. Oh, look, I've done
Reconciliation Week. I've done a cultural awareness training. I'm saying, well,
what do you do with that education? And I think
that's the bigger picture, where you've got to be able
to take it home with you. And it should be
not something that's separate in this society. It should be
(14:38):
part of who you are as an Australian, because, you know,
you look at the Aboriginal cultures, the oldest living culture
in the world. And the tortured island culture. Why aren't
we not celebrating? Why are we not embrace that? Everyone
deserves that. So I'm a big believer that, you know, again,
it's not something that should be separate. It's got to
be part of who you are.
S4 (14:58):
How careful do you think we need to be with
our language? That's the key, isn't it, to to make
sure that it's not offensive?
S1 (15:04):
Yeah. It's very crucial, um, because the language is everything.
Because it's how we interpretate, um, culture or how we
express ourselves. And if it's not done in the right way,
you can really, you know, unfortunately ostracize communities, people, individuals.
And I think really it's just taking that little bit
of extra time and care and it's around consulting with
(15:27):
the right people, you know, taking the time not to
just put something out to say, we've got something out
there to say, we're doing this. It's actually taking the
time to be really respectful. And I think it's a
simple reality. Respect. We talk about everyone deserves respect, and
I think we need to ensure that we always give
that respect.
S4 (15:46):
You talked there about athletes. Talk about the community. And
part of the community of course, is the media. Sometimes
the media doesn't really understand. The whole cultural aspect when
it comes to sport. Do you find that? Do you
find that there is a bit of misinterpretation?
S1 (16:03):
Yeah, and I think there's good and bad. I think
that's probably, you know, there's another space where I think
like any, any sort of outlet of particularly around media,
they've got to be well informed, um, around, you know,
some of the issues where you can talk about races,
you can talk about cultural difference, you can talk about
religious difference, but you've got to do the research. You've
got to actually come with knowledge. And I think that's
(16:25):
probably an opportunity that not only through media but across
the board, that we've got to be a little bit
more educated and a bit more aware of the situations
or what we're covering, because if we are, then we
come with a really informed questions, but also allow us
to not be. Biased in some ways because it's easy
to be biased because if somebody says they had a
(16:47):
racist taunt or been bullied or asked, did we just
go straight to that? We don't sort of appreciate, you know,
the history or the story behind that as well.
S4 (16:56):
I guess some would say that we sometimes go too far.
We've got to find a happy medium, don't we?
S1 (17:02):
Yeah. And it's important because I think, yeah, we want
a good story. But it's also we want a factual
story that is meaningful, but it's also doesn't it actually
ensures that there's real support for both sides. Um, where
it's not just ostracizing somebody who's called it out. Uh,
it's making sure that really there's a little bit of
a common sense and there's a little bit of a
(17:23):
respect that needs to be done, because I think respect
in what you do and how you talk to people. Um,
it goes a long way of getting the right information
and the right facts. When you talk about a story, when.
S4 (17:34):
You're running and when you retired, did you have any
inkling that this would be this would be an area
where you'd end up in?
S1 (17:40):
Not really. I mean, I've always been passionate about creating change, um,
in health and wellbeing and in sport itself, but, um,
it's probably just come full circle. Um, and an opportunity
to continue to give back, um, because I've had a
fortunate where I've had, you know, a different upbringing and
I've had the trials and tribulations like anyone else. But, um,
(18:01):
I've always, you know, created a space that life's about challenges,
and you've got to challenge yourself. And you've also got
to make sure that it means something. You have purpose.
If you don't have purpose, uh, it's very hard to,
you know, do what you do. And I think I've always, um,
done something I've loved to do and always challenged it
and challenged myself to always think outside the box.
S4 (18:24):
You do need people championing your cause, though, don't you? And, uh.
Being supportive because sometimes it just doesn't happen.
S1 (18:32):
Yeah. And I think sometimes you've got to do it
yourself and it's sometimes hard where you want to get
the right support. But, um, sometimes, you know, you won't
get the support. Um, and that's probably a tough reality, um, that,
you know, particularly in sport and life after sport and,
you know, what you want to do, your dreams and aspirations. Um,
but I've always a big believer that you never forget
(18:53):
the people that have supported you, but you sometimes have
to do the hard yards yourself, and you continue to
do the hard yards to create change.
S4 (19:01):
Do you find that because you were a champion sportsman
sports person, it is easier to, to gain acceptance? Um,
and I guess, is it sometimes hard for you to
realise why others can't have the same elevation that you've
had or same acceptance?
S1 (19:16):
Oh, not really, because I think it's what you make
of life. You what you put in life is what
you get out. And of course, you know, we all
have different paths and different opportunities, but, um, you know, again,
I can't talk on what you know, how other people
have experienced it, but I can only talk about I've struggled,
I've gone through the trials and tribulations of, you know, sport, um,
post sport, um, career development, um, you know, all the
(19:39):
sort of, you know, emotions that you go through. Um,
but I've always had one thing in, in front of
my mind is, you know, do what you love and
always put that passion and drive into it. And, and,
and if you want to do something, do it yourself.
Don't wait for anyone else.
S4 (19:56):
How was it after you retired? Did you fall into
a little bit of a slump?
S1 (20:00):
Yeah, there's always there because I think, like anything, I
had aspirations of doing many things. And, um, I wanted
to just focus on what my heart says and what
my mind is sort of thinking. And I decided I
wanted to do a lot more in community around health
and wellbeing, and to inspire our next generation to believe
there's something out there for them. So, you know, again,
(20:20):
it it wasn't a well paid job. It was just
something that I loved to do. And, you know, again,
we talk about money's not everything, but you've got to
make sure that you're doing something that you love and, um, and,
and if you do something that you love, then it's
not really work, is it?
S4 (20:34):
Tell us about some of the experiences you've had because
you worked at Foreign Affairs post. Olympics poster your running career.
You've also been involved in encouraging healthy lifestyle in indigenous communities,
and now you're on a couple of boards. You're a
leader in terms of cultural and racial change. How does
(20:58):
that experience shape you as a as a person, do
you think?
S1 (21:00):
Well, it's probably important that I have that lived experience. Um,
so my lived experience of, um, you know, going through
the trials and tribulations of sport, going through different career
opportunities and, you know, doing certain things that may not
have been something I wanted to do, but I knew
there was a, you know, something that ended the road,
so to speak. So I've always been a very positive,
(21:21):
positive person, very optimistic, regardless of what, what life has
thrown at me. Um, and I've always persevered. So I
think the lived experience as an athlete, of course. And
of course, as you know, Tim, living on a boat
in the Whitsundays, you know, it's always a big trial
and error up there as well. Um, I was able
to always maintain that what you put in, put in
(21:42):
life is what you get out. Um, and you can
only control the controllables. So I was able to always,
you know, regardless of if I got injured or regardless
of I moved on to a different career or I
wasn't being successful. Um, I was always maintained that sense
of purpose, um, which sometimes is very difficult because, um,
(22:02):
you may not have always that sense of clear purpose,
but I had a clear sense of purpose. Do what
I love and always give it 120%.
S4 (22:12):
Good on you, Patrick. As I said, welcome to Sport
Integrity Australia. I'm sure you're going to make a huge difference.
Thanks very much for joining us.
S1 (22:19):
Pleasure. Thank you. Tim.
S3 (22:22):
You're listening to onside, the official podcast of Sport Integrity Australia.
S4 (22:29):
Joining us now onside is former Australian Diamonds captain and
world champion Caitlin Bassett. There isn't much that Caitlin hasn't
done in netball. She was the beating heart of the
Australian team and has 100 caps, is a two time
world champion and is a Commonwealth Games gold medallist. Caitlin
retired last year and has taken up a role at
Sport Integrity Australia as an athlete educator. She's determined to
(22:53):
ensure the next generation of Australian athletes are educated on
the threats to integrity in sport. Caitlin joins us now.
Well Caitlin, firstly welcome to Sport Integrity Australia. What was
the reason behind becoming an athlete educator?
S2 (23:07):
I was at a little bit of a loose end
after I finished playing netball. I think, and was looking
for jobs online, and one of them was for the
educator role. And I thought, I've sat through so many
of these sessions myself as an athlete, I reckon I
could do this job pretty good and it's been heaps
of fun so far.
S4 (23:27):
As an athlete, did you tune out at times?
S2 (23:29):
So it was challenging at times. I remember when I
was young, being in a room with heaps of people
and having it delivered to us. Um, when I got
a little bit older, we actually did it online and
we had to complete the units, um, as part of, uh,
to get paid basically. So it was kind of a
very big incentive there to get through some of the work.
But I think what kind of struck me and what
(23:51):
I said when I presented the other day was I
was only athlete for 18 years, and the information that
I was getting at the start of my career and
the information I was getting at the end was vastly different.
So I was always learning. Every time we came together
to do an education session, whether it be around, uh,
you know.
S5 (24:09):
Uh.
S2 (24:10):
Sorry. Whether it be around drugs in sport, whether it
be around, uh, integrity issues around, you know, wagering and
betting in sport and things like that, it was always
something new and something learning because it sport was evolving
at such a rapid rate.
S4 (24:22):
Did you find that, uh, when you go around the
shelves these days, do you have a look at batch
testing of supplements and, and work out which supplements you
can even though you're not involved in sport at an
elite level? Do you still look at those things?
S2 (24:35):
It's interesting because I'm still working in sport. I'm working
within cricket and, um, I have access to using some
of the supplements at training. And number one, I don't
use supplements anymore because I don't do any exercise. Um,
so I don't need to, but yeah, I just think, oh, wow,
I can actually take whatever I want now, if that's
what I wanted to do and didn't have to think
(24:55):
about it. Um, while I was playing, I, I did
for a little bit, um, get involved with, uh, starting
my own supplement. And that was one of the things
that was really important, obviously, was the batch testing. And, um,
as an athlete, it's just always been ingrained in me.
I guess what I put in my body is my responsibility.
And so I wanted to make sure that anything with
my name attached to it was going to be, um,
(25:15):
something that athletes were going to be able to take
safely and not have to worry because unfortunately, it is still, um,
a drama these days. You get given, you know, something
really innocuous. You go to a hotel, you're staying away,
and there's a little protein ball on your bed when
you get there is like a welcome thing. Or, you know,
you go to the shops and there's all these bits
and pieces and information and it really is scary, um,
(25:36):
you know, what to take and what not to take.
S4 (25:39):
Is that one of the messages when you go out
to speak to athletes? Now, that's what you're going to
be saying to them. Be wary of everything that you
put into your body.
S2 (25:47):
Yeah it is. And I think, you know, we see
so much in the media these days about athletes coming
out and saying, I didn't know. And, you know, I
swear I didn't do anything wrong. And, you know, the
responsibility is never on them, but it actually is. And
we don't want to scare athletes. We don't want to
terrify them. But, um, you know, they are very lucky.
Some of them are, you know, some of the athletes
(26:08):
we talk to are earning very big contracts. So it's
a lot, you know, financial for them. But it's your
reputation at the end of the day. And that's something
that you can never reverse. If someone's accused you of
cheating or doping and things like that. Um, it's kind
of irreversible that Mark will be on your career for
the rest of your life. We know the internet these days.
Never forget. So it's really important, I think, about being
(26:29):
proactive and getting ahead of these things and, and, um,
stopping athletes making silly mistakes because often they put so
much thought and effort into their training, their preparation, their diet,
their exercise. And it's just that one tiny little slip
up that can let them, you know, um, come undone.
S4 (26:45):
It's not just an anti-doping message that you're delivering either.
It's all about the integrity of the sport. You mentioned
a moment ago about wagering and what not just amongst sportswomen.
Do you think wagering is an issue? Do you think
that because we hear about it a lot in male sports,
where people are betting on everything, is it the same
with women's sports?
S2 (27:05):
Well, it is becoming that way, yes, because, I mean,
I'm currently working in cricket and when I go to
work or to watch the girls play, I have to
hand in my phone to start the game. And that's
just normal for them. Any iPhones or watches, anything that
basically can get the internet gets handed in, gets put
in a big lock box because people are understanding now
that female sport is becoming more popular and they can
(27:28):
wager it. And in a sport like cricket, you can
put bets on everything about, you know, balls, wides, you know,
there's so many tiny little things in the game that
you could potentially make into a wager. And so I
think as female sport gets bigger and grows, um, unfortunately,
people who are on the outside and potentially want to
do harm within sport kind of see an opportunity. So yeah,
(27:51):
it is important that in female sport, I guess that
we're being as diligent as we are in the men's
sport because it is starting to creep in there. And,
you know, my sport, netball, traditionally, um, was nothing that
I ever experienced when I was playing. But social media
and embedding these days is just, you know, gone through
the roof just.
S4 (28:09):
On social media. That's another aspect of, I guess, being
part of a sportsperson is these days where you do
cop it on social media. We've seen that recently with
the Australian team. How do you cope with it, and
what would be your message to to young people in
particular impacted by it, apart from simply getting off social media?
S2 (28:28):
Yeah, and that's a really hard thing. I think as
athletes these days, um, they're encouraged to build their brand
and their profile and, um, showcase what their sport is
through social media. And, and it's really cool for fans
to engage that way. And it is it was always encouraged,
you know, like, this is a great way to involve
fans in your journey. And so by opening up your
life and sharing your life to them is a great
(28:49):
way to, um, yeah, I guess bring them along on
the ride with you. But you are also opening yourself
up to the negative side, and that is obviously abuse. Um,
and some of the unkind comments that come along with it. Um,
so it's, it's finding that balance. You can't say to
a young athlete these days, don't look at social media because, um,
you know, for some of the young athletes, it's so
(29:11):
ingrained in their life, they've grown up going to school,
using the internet, using social media to connect with their friends. Um,
and so we want them to be mindful about using
it and, and getting the benefits of it, but then
also understanding that, um, there's tools and that your sporting
organisation should have ways to help you if you are
going through some struggles online.
S4 (29:32):
Did you ever have any issues with with social media abuse?
S2 (29:36):
100% uh, yeah. Look, I did, um, I think I
was one of those people that, um, yeah, definitely opened
myself up and was quite vulnerable at times to online. Um,
and it was a struggle for me. Um, and it
transferred to in person, you know, I would play a game,
maybe not play well, um, would get attacked online or
someone would question, you know, why I should be the
(29:57):
Australian captain. And then I would have to go after
a game and sign autographs and, you know, being surrounded
by fans, my head, I'm thinking, or some of these people,
the ones that are writing these negative comments about me,
and now they're asking for a photo and they want
me to sign and be friendly and open so it
can be really hard. I think, um, you know, that
online persona and who you are offline and really trying
(30:18):
to balance the two. But yeah, definitely for me, um,
I had to pretty quickly, um, upskill and, and do
a lot of work in the way of dealing with
what was coming at me at social media.
S4 (30:31):
Yes. It's not just disgruntled fans who are upset with
the result or how you're playing, but gamblers, um, who've.
Bit on the game, and something might go awry in
the game, and they'd take it out on the players.
S2 (30:44):
I know and imagine that you finished a game. You're
devastated because maybe you haven't played particularly well, or you're
gutted because it's been a major competition. Um, for example, after,
you know, finishing com games and winning silver, um, which
wasn't what we wanted in the Gold Coast in 2018,
jumping online for then people to be like, you've lost
me money. I had bets on this game. I can't
(31:06):
believe why did you miss that goal? Like you've cost
me all this and getting that abuse like that is
full on. And, um, you really have to distance yourself
from those comments. Like, I didn't tell you to put
a bet on that. I didn't tell you to put,
you know, to gamble that amount of money. Um, and
as an athlete, I guess you can't take that pressure
into playing, because imagine if every goal that I went
(31:26):
to score, I thought about that, or I wonder if
I'm losing someone money here, or is someone going to
abuse me if I miss this goal? Like that is
really distracting. So I think it's about, um, you know,
if you are reading those type of things or that
type of stuff is coming your way online, actively working
with someone to be able to put that aside so
it's not affecting your performances.
S4 (31:45):
You get the impression at times that sports are at
times struggling with how to how to keep up with everything,
because there is so much going on at the moment
and in the background you've got the safeguarding aspect as well.
But athletes need to be protected. It's up to the
sporting organization to do that. So there's a lot of
pressure on sporting organizations these days, isn't there?
S2 (32:06):
Yeah, there isn't. And I think it's fair because, um,
if the sporting organization is using your image and using
you to promote their brand, they also need to be
responsible for helping keep you safe. And I get really
frustrated when sporting organizations go, oh, we're not going to
moderate posts. So we're going to leave comments on. And
they kind of fuel the fire in, in, in regards to,
(32:27):
to letting trolls do their work. And I remember sitting
down before World Cup in 2019 with the media department
at Netball Australia and saying some of the things that
you guys do, it can affect the way that we
are treated online. So when we're posting before a game or,
you know, don't ask the question, who should be the
starting seven? Because that's inviting people to get on their
(32:49):
high horse and start slagging off players like it's about
really taking control as an organization and setting a standard that, well,
this is what we expect online. And if you, um,
if you're going to misbehave, we're going to block you or,
you know, we're going to turn off comments because, um, people,
you know, these days, they see that freedom of speech
and it's it's my right. I'm allowed to comment and
(33:10):
say whatever I want. Um, and so, you know, that's
I think when sporting organizations kind of need to step
up and go, well, actually, that's not the type of
behavior that we expect.
S4 (33:20):
It sounds like you're going to be able to bring
a lot of life skills to this role at Sport
Integrity Australia, going out, talking to athletes because you have
real life experience, don't you?
S2 (33:29):
Yeah, I do, and it's quite funny as an athlete
when you're, um, you know, training and you're in the
thick of it, you actually think, well, I'm not good
at anything. Like I can throw and catch a netball
and that's great, but how is that going to help
me in the real world? And it's really nice, um, to,
to be working this education role and understand that the
things that I learnt during sport is now so relevant
(33:49):
in helping me, helping others. And I think that's what
really drew me to, um, to the education position, not
just because I love being involved in sport still. And, um,
I love presenting and broadcast and media is a passion
of mine, but it's also about helping share the experiences
that I've had and helping others and and helping them
go through potentially an easier time. Things that I struggle with. So, uh, yeah,
(34:12):
there are a few life lessons that I've had over
the years, and, um, I love giving back, but also
I love learning off other athletes. And at the moment
they are in the thick of it. They're, you know,
social media, online abuse is rampant, gambling is rampant. All these,
you know, supplements which are getting shoved down, you know,
players throats by marketing and media companies and things like that.
(34:33):
Like it is a really scary space as an athlete. And, um,
there is a lot of pressure on them to be perfect,
not just on the field or pitch or whatever. Discipline
they're performing in, but to be offered as well.
S4 (34:43):
It's a minefield, isn't it?
S2 (34:44):
It is, but an exciting one. And I guess that's
what makes being an elite athlete so exciting. You get
the opportunities to do things that other people will not. Um,
the good and the bad and, um, yeah, you just
got to embrace the opportunities that come your way and
and learn as you go.
S4 (34:59):
Have you thought about being a coach or is it
that's not in your DNA?
S2 (35:03):
I definitely don't have the patience to be a coach. Okay. Um,
I'm working in the player well-being space at the moment,
which I enjoy, because, um, I really like that sports
are understanding that well-being and treating a person as a whole,
and not just an athlete, is really important to performance
and important to, uh, you know, when a player does
decide to leave the sport or retire, um, that we're,
(35:23):
we're going to help them and guide them in the
next area of their life because, you know, like I
see when I walk around here, there's plenty of ex
athletes who come back to sport and come back to
present and come back to help others. And I think
that's what we really want. We want elite athletes to
leave the sporting environment feeling supported that. They can come
back into it and share their experiences to help others.
S4 (35:41):
You mentioned the i-word their retirement. You've been retired for
about six months now. How hard is it for an
athlete to suddenly go from from playing at elite level
as you were, and as captain of the team, to
suddenly not have that day to day experience anymore? Is
that an issue that needs to be, uh, exploited a
little bit more?
S2 (36:02):
Yeah. Um, I think the the media likes to pump
up a fairy tale ending. And so for a lot
of athletes, they think, oh, I'm going to finish my
career on a high, I'm going to win a medal,
a championship. Um, I'm going to finish exactly the way
I want to, and then I'm just going to smooth
sail into the next area of my life. Um, unfortunately,
in sport, uh, I've, I've found out through talking to
(36:23):
lots of other athletes now and that it's, it's not
that way. And there's so many athletes that finish because
of injury, because of deselection, because of burnout. Um, you know,
they're injured. They're they've lost passion for the sport or
they've no longer been selected. And they felt like they've
been let down and they walk away, um, very unprepared, um,
both physically and mentally for what the next stage of
(36:45):
their life is. And so the last six months for
me have been ridiculously challenging. Um, I definitely wasn't prepared
for retirement, even though I thought I was, you know,
I studied while I was playing netball. I had all
these bits and pieces going on outside of sport that
I thought had prepared me really well. But at the
end of the day, um, yeah, it's literally like you've
(37:07):
been banned from going into the office. You don't have, uh,
people to train with. You don't have that support that
you're used to accessing every day, even basic things for me,
like physio. I finished, um, with, you know, two, two
knee surgeries. And so even just being able to rehab
so I could walk properly and get in and out
of my car, that was stuff that I didn't even
have access to. So it can be quite confronting.
S4 (37:30):
Yeah. So as you look back on your career, have
you got a memory that comes to mind immediately? Have
you thought, well, gee, that was good. Um, because when
you're in the thick of things, you really don't have
time to reflect, are you?
S2 (37:42):
Now you don't have time to reflect, because what happens
is you set a goal and then you achieve that goal.
And then the next day you jump to the next
goal and the next goal and the next goal. Even
if you're hitting a PB in the weights room on
the bench press, you know you're chucking on another 2.5
kilos straight away. You're always pushing for the next thing.
And I think that can be really, um, you don't
realize that as an athlete that you never actually acknowledging
(38:03):
the great things that do come your way. And when
I look back on my career and, um, I reflect
a lot through looking through old photos and talking to
some of my old teammates. And it's not, um, you know,
the big tournaments, it's it's not the comm games in
the World Cups. Because reflecting on them, I actually realize
how exhausting and, um, and challenging they were for me
(38:24):
as an athlete. Um, I like, uh, playing one game
a week. I don't like jamming everything into a week
and playing, you know, uh, seven games in ten days
in an elite tournament, um, is exhausting. And so looking back,
I think the things I miss most and the things
that make me smile most are, uh, the, the tours
(38:45):
that we went overseas, um, you know, we went to
Jamaica a couple of times, which was always interesting heading
to the UK. Um, you know, when it's 40 degrees
in Perth, jumping on a plane heading to the UK
where it's negative five degrees to go play a tournament,
then coming back to the heat again, those type of things, um,
you know, going traveling after a tournament over in, in
(39:05):
Europe or the UK, I think were, were things that
I remember really fondly. But then, you know, people always
say it's the friendships and it's the mucking around at
training and it's the laugh that you have and and
they're always things I think, um, for me now, I'm
really lucky I had those experiences.
S4 (39:20):
And just as a final question, I'm sure you get
asked this a lot. Do you do you successfully get
the exit row in planes still or.
S2 (39:27):
Yeah, I'm waiting for the bump up to business class,
but that never happens. Um, yeah, unfortunately I have to
pay for that now as well. So that's one of
the horrible things about no longer being an athlete. You've
got to pay for all your flights everywhere. Yeah.
S4 (39:39):
How tall are you, by the way?
S2 (39:40):
Six foot four. Six foot four.
S4 (39:42):
Yeah. So I imagine it's a bit of a crumple
in 30, 30 4D or something like that. Yeah.
S2 (39:47):
So maybe I left the sport too early. I think
the girls are getting business class flights now and they
had overseas, but we never did when we were playing
in tournaments over there.
S4 (39:54):
So yeah, all the best in your new role. I'm
sure it's going to go well. Caitlin, as an athlete
educator for Sport Integrity Australia, thank you, thank you.
S3 (40:05):
And now for our segment from left field where we
answer a question from the public.
S6 (40:12):
Hi, I'm Haley, I'm an education presenter with Sport Integrity Australia.
Today's left field question is are antidepressants banned as a category?
Antidepressants aren't banned in sport, and there are a number
of common medications that are permitted for use in athletes. However,
as we know, substances can change over time, so athletes
need to be careful to make sure that they're checking
(40:33):
their substances regularly. On global drew. At the end of
the day, your mental health is most important, so be
sure to check in with your doctor if you feel
like you need mental health support.
S4 (40:44):
Well, thanks for joining us on onside. I'm Tim Giveall.
See you soon with another episode of onside.
S3 (40:49):
You've been listening to onside, the official podcast of Sport
Integrity Australia. Send in your podcast questions or suggestions to
media at Sport integrity.gov. Edu for more information on Sport
Integrity Australia, please visit our website at Sport integrity.gov or
(41:11):
check out our Clean Sport app.
I think there's a shift to understanding sport as a
vehicle for health, for education, to awareness, but also knowing
what it means around reconciliation, the shift around, you know,
a real respect, real acknowledgement and real understanding. There has
to be a pathway, regardless of where you live in
this country, if you want to be a great sportsperson,
(00:22):
then let's make sure you have the opportunity. It shouldn't
matter if you're a rural or remote. Communities shouldn't be
mad if you're black, white or brindle. Whatever background, you
should be able to give the same opportunities that everyone else.
S2 (00:33):
If the sporting organisation is using your image and using
you to promote their brand, they also need to be
responsible for helping keep you safe. Like I can throw
and catch a netball and that's great, but how is
that going to help me in the real world? And
it's really nice, um, to, to be working this education
role and understand that the things that I learnt during
sport is now so relevant in helping me, helping others.
S3 (01:03):
Welcome to onside, the official podcast of Sport Integrity Australia.
Our mission is to protect the integrity of sport and
the health and welfare of those who participate in Australian sport.
S4 (01:19):
Hello and welcome to onside, the official podcast for Sport
Integrity Australia. I'm Tim Giveall. In this podcast, we speak
to athletes, coaches and administrators and examine the issues that
affect sport. Answer your questions and educate you about clean
and fair sport. Well, it's been a busy start to
the year with the launch of Sport Integrity, Australia's new
(01:41):
safety and sport division. It includes a new hotline capability
to provide a place for anyone in sport, past or present,
to be heard and seek support. The Safe Sport Hotline
is part of an expanded service offered to members of
the sport to share their story about integrity issues they've experienced.
The service includes an anonymous reporting capability which covers wider
(02:03):
racial and cultural issues in sport. For people who feel
as though they've been discriminated against in their sport. Call
1800 161 361 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., seven days a week
to share your story. Former Olympic sprinter Patrick Johnson has
also joined the agency as a safety and cultural advisor
to ensure our responses are appropriate and informed. Patrick will
(02:27):
provide strategic leadership to our agency and sport in Australia
in the areas of diversity and inclusion, with the aim
of developing an agency that's culturally capable, respectful and engaging
while helping us guide education for delivery to all levels
of sport in Australia. We'll talk to Patrick shortly. We'll
also be joined by former Australian diamond captain and world
(02:48):
champion Caitlin Bassett, who has recently taken up a role
at Sport Integrity Australia as an athlete educator. But firstly,
to Patrick Johnson, Patrick is a Kaanju man from far
north Queensland who's best known for being the first man
of non-African descent to smash the ten second barrier for
the 100m. A dual Olympian, Patrick has an extensive career
(03:12):
off the track that includes ten years in the Department
of Foreign Affairs and Trade, more than 20 years of
advocacy work for equal rights for all Australians, in addition
to numerous indigenous leadership roles. Patrick is the inaugural chair
of the AOC's Indigenous Advisory Committee, and is on the
Organising Committee for the Olympic Games Board for Brisbane 2032.
(03:34):
And he joins us now. Well, Patrick, firstly welcome to
Sport Integrity Australia. I guess culture is a very important
part of sport these days.
S1 (03:42):
Yeah, definitely. And I think that's something that really great
to be part of Sport Integrity Australia particularly around you know,
we talk about cultural aspects and education and awareness. And
I think it's something that as a country and in
sport that we really are making a lot of inroads
to that space, but everyone's on their different journeys, so
(04:04):
it's really important to have that respect. Um, but we
have to lead by example. And I think that's where,
you know, part of my role here at Sport Integrity
Australia is to really ensure that we are leading that space.
S4 (04:16):
Sport can be a driver counted in the lead up
to the 2032 Brisbane Olympic Games. There's a feeling that
the sport can drive cultural change wider than sport, and
that's why it's so important to embed it into sport.
S1 (04:29):
Yeah, and I think there's a shift to understanding sport
as a vehicle for health, for education, to awareness, but
also knowing what it means around reconciliation. And I think
there's a sense of the next nine years until Brisbane 2032,
that we want to ensure that all Australians are a
part of the Olympic Games and part of sport, and
(04:51):
that's probably a bigger picture that we've looked at and
bigger change that's happening in Australian sport that we have
to call out racism, we have to call out inequality,
we have to create real space for culturally safe spaces
around diversity and inclusion. And I think that's the shift
that's happening in this country. And of course, we've got
a long way to go in certain sports and certain realities.
(05:13):
But I think if we have good leaders in this
space and everyone sort of buys into it and understands
why we're doing it, then it's a real game changer
in what we're doing leading into 2032. But it's also
ten years post the Olympic Games, which is really important
to really leave a legacy that's really meaningful.
S4 (05:33):
Personally, did you experience much racism coming through as a sprinter?
S1 (05:38):
Not as much. Um, there was always some racist taunts, but, um,
I was fairly fortunate where, um, my running, I did
the talking on the track. Um, but also, I think
in track and field, uh, you had a lot of diversity.
And again, I was competing against Americans, Jamaicans and the
rest of the world. So it probably wasn't a space
(05:59):
for racism, but it still occurs. And I think this
is the biggest issue that we've got in sport is
to making sure that we have no tolerance for it
at every level, from grassroots all to high performance. And again,
it's dealing with the unconscious bias as well that people
may have over the years. So it's actually addressing that,
which is really important component where people don't even know
(06:21):
they're saying certain things that may be racist or may be,
you know, affecting, you know, the, the staff or to
athletes or anyone. So we've already got a really be
really inward thinking about how we reflect on our conversations
and how we think. And that's a shift that, um,
as part of sport has a great vehicle in doing
(06:41):
because sport breaks down all the barriers of religion, race, culture.
It brings people together. So how do we make sure
sport then influences and educates in the right way?
S4 (06:54):
Because discrimination still exists in sport. And, you know, that
is I guess, where culture comes into it. But with
racism it can lead to discrimination as well. I guess
at a grassroots level, that's where you'd be trying to
sort of integrate racism. Discrimination has no place in sport.
S1 (07:13):
Yeah, it has to be at all levels. And that's
really important from grassroots, of course, you know, they they
don't know nothing about racism. And unless they learn it from,
you know, where they play or what they do. So
it's actually educating everyone involved, from parents to coaches to,
you know, sporting organizations that there's no tolerance for racism, bullying,
harassment and you name it. It's really important that, you know,
(07:36):
we understand why it happens. And I think there's that
educational piece where you can say no to racism, but
what's it really mean? So there's that educational piece of
why are people racists? Or why are people bullying or
being harassed? So it's really been clear, you know, understanding
the reasons behind it and ensuring that we understand we
(07:57):
don't have any tolerance for it. So we don't have
a place for that in this country and particularly in sport.
S4 (08:03):
Do you find it's an uncomfortable conversation to have with
some people who probably don't know any different?
S1 (08:10):
Yeah, it's always uncomfortable, but I think you have to
have an open dialogue. You have to start somewhere. Um,
and again, it's how you approach that. Um, you know,
you have people that, you know, as I mentioned, may
have an unconscious bias of saying certain things that not
really appropriate because they've they've said the same thing for
the last 30 or 40 years. But how do we
(08:31):
ensure that we educate them in a way that say, well,
hang on, that's not really appropriate? Um, what you've actually
said is pretty, you know, meaningful and it is racist
towards who I am and my culture and my people
or my religion or whatnot. So it's actually I'm a
big person on calling it out, but also educating because,
you know, again, some people are blatantly racist. Yes. You've
(08:53):
got to call them out and you've got to put
them into place. But it's also understanding that some people
that don't mean to do it because they actually didn't
think it was an issue. So it's actually changing the
hearts and minds of individuals from the grassroots to high performance, from,
you know, parents to referees to coaches to administrators to
start saying, hang on, we need to just take a
(09:14):
moment here. What do we actually mean by being culturally appropriate?
How do we actually make sure this space is safe
for everyone, regardless of your nationality or background? But we
want to make sure we're the leaders for our kids
because everything will I do, and we do, I hope,
is for leaving a a greater legacy for our kids.
S4 (09:36):
When you go to the Sports Commission, you're dealing with
elite athletes. Chair of the indigenous committee at the Australian
Olympic Committee. Do you find that it resonates, the message
that you're you're telling elite athletes, this is what you
should be saying, this is what you should be doing,
and this is how you should act. Um, so that
(09:57):
it is culturally appropriate. Are you finding that message is
getting through?
S1 (10:00):
Yeah. I think, you know, the great thing about, you know,
a lot of the athletes I've dealt with and even
through the Olympic movement that athletes are really, you know, actively,
you know, buying into this, they want to ensure that
there are culturally appropriate because they see Australia as a
very diverse and multicultural and sport is. But how do
(10:21):
we ensure that it's for everyone? And I think the
great thing that we've got in Australia, there's a real
movement within athletes in this country that are really the
game changers. They're changing the way people perceive sport and
athletes themselves because, you know, if you don't have it
leading by our athletes and our superstars, not only from
(10:41):
our people, that's well known, but from the athletes, from
the grassroots. Um, then it's very, very hard to continue
the education because it's not driven by the ones that
are really affected by it.
S4 (10:53):
It's not entirely easy, though, is it? Because there is racism,
let's face it, in Australia and racism occurs at many
different levels. And you mentioned there a moment ago the
casual racism where people may not understand or really, um,
I guess believe that they're being racist, whereas it's the
(11:14):
blatant racism, um, which can be incredibly hurtful and is
directed towards somebody. So it still exists in Australia, doesn't it? Yeah.
S1 (11:22):
We can't sort of say it doesn't. Um, and it's
really important that we all as individuals have, you know,
responsibility to call it out. Uh, if you have a
mate that's been racist and, you know, you have to
call that out.
S4 (11:34):
Have you had that experience yourself?
S1 (11:36):
I've. I've had sort of, um, certain mates that have
said things jokingly. I said, mate, I'm sorry, mate, that's
not appropriate. And they go, but we know each other.
I said, no, no mate, I'm sorry but understand and
and it's just educating, you know, there's going to be
people that are, you know, whatever life, they're always going
to be racist to, you know, they're not going to
be ignorant to some of the the real issues that
(11:58):
are happening on the ground and where people come from,
and they have their own stigma around cultures and people. So, again,
it shouldn't be left up to the people of culture
to call it out. It has to be every single
person's responsibility regardless black, white or brindle. You call it
out because you know it's wrong.
S4 (12:18):
Within the Olympic movement, are there enough indigenous athletes taking
part in in sport?
S1 (12:24):
Oh yeah. There's been 69 indigenous Olympians over the course
of the Olympic movement. But of course we would like
to see more. And that's probably the big shift that's
happening where leading into, of course, the nine years into 2032.
But you can see the sports, the, you know, the
shift around, you know, a real respect, real acknowledgement and
(12:45):
real understanding. There has to be a pathway, regardless of
where you live in this country, if you want to
be a great sports person, then let's make sure you
have the opportunity. It shouldn't matter if you're a rural
or remote communities. It shouldn't be mad if you're black,
white or brindle. Whatever background, you should be able to
give the same opportunities that everyone else and I know
it's not there, but I think there's a shift that's happening. Uh,
(13:07):
and that's something that I'm passionate about to ensure that,
let's say the Olympic movement itself should be not just
for the rich, it should be for every single person
in this country to aspire, believe, and could be part of.
S4 (13:19):
With your workshops. What do you talk about when you
talk to elite athletes? Performance, high performance people. What do
you talk about?
S1 (13:26):
Well, first is probably getting their knowledge and understanding. So
I'm a big believer is actually understanding what they know.
So we can talk about cultural safe places. You can
talk about culture and integrity authority. You know cultural education.
But everyone's on a different journey, so it's really important
to connect with people. And that's one of the bigger
(13:48):
issues I have, is you have to connect with your
audience and the people you're talking to, not talk at them.
S4 (13:53):
Don't lecture them.
S1 (13:54):
Yeah, it's really important you bring them along on the journey.
So that's the shift that I make where it's not
me just presenting about, you know, being, you know, a
cultural safe space and what it means to have, you know,
respect for Aboriginal peoples and cultures and histories. It's about
what do you know? And how do we get you
on that journey, that it's meaningful, but it's also it
(14:17):
resonates to you and you can have the lived experience.
It's not just ticking a box. Oh, look, I've done
Reconciliation Week. I've done a cultural awareness training. I'm saying, well,
what do you do with that education? And I think
that's the bigger picture, where you've got to be able
to take it home with you. And it should be
not something that's separate in this society. It should be
(14:38):
part of who you are as an Australian, because, you know,
you look at the Aboriginal cultures, the oldest living culture
in the world. And the tortured island culture. Why aren't
we not celebrating? Why are we not embrace that? Everyone
deserves that. So I'm a big believer that, you know, again,
it's not something that should be separate. It's got to
be part of who you are.
S4 (14:58):
How careful do you think we need to be with
our language? That's the key, isn't it, to to make
sure that it's not offensive?
S1 (15:04):
Yeah. It's very crucial, um, because the language is everything.
Because it's how we interpretate, um, culture or how we
express ourselves. And if it's not done in the right way,
you can really, you know, unfortunately ostracize communities, people, individuals.
And I think really it's just taking that little bit
of extra time and care and it's around consulting with
(15:27):
the right people, you know, taking the time not to
just put something out to say, we've got something out
there to say, we're doing this. It's actually taking the
time to be really respectful. And I think it's a
simple reality. Respect. We talk about everyone deserves respect, and
I think we need to ensure that we always give
that respect.
S4 (15:46):
You talked there about athletes. Talk about the community. And
part of the community of course, is the media. Sometimes
the media doesn't really understand. The whole cultural aspect when
it comes to sport. Do you find that? Do you
find that there is a bit of misinterpretation?
S1 (16:03):
Yeah, and I think there's good and bad. I think
that's probably, you know, there's another space where I think
like any, any sort of outlet of particularly around media,
they've got to be well informed, um, around, you know,
some of the issues where you can talk about races,
you can talk about cultural difference, you can talk about
religious difference, but you've got to do the research. You've
got to actually come with knowledge. And I think that's
(16:25):
probably an opportunity that not only through media but across
the board, that we've got to be a little bit
more educated and a bit more aware of the situations
or what we're covering, because if we are, then we
come with a really informed questions, but also allow us
to not be. Biased in some ways because it's easy
to be biased because if somebody says they had a
(16:47):
racist taunt or been bullied or asked, did we just
go straight to that? We don't sort of appreciate, you know,
the history or the story behind that as well.
S4 (16:56):
I guess some would say that we sometimes go too far.
We've got to find a happy medium, don't we?
S1 (17:02):
Yeah. And it's important because I think, yeah, we want
a good story. But it's also we want a factual
story that is meaningful, but it's also doesn't it actually
ensures that there's real support for both sides. Um, where
it's not just ostracizing somebody who's called it out. Uh,
it's making sure that really there's a little bit of
a common sense and there's a little bit of a
(17:23):
respect that needs to be done, because I think respect
in what you do and how you talk to people. Um,
it goes a long way of getting the right information
and the right facts. When you talk about a story, when.
S4 (17:34):
You're running and when you retired, did you have any
inkling that this would be this would be an area
where you'd end up in?
S1 (17:40):
Not really. I mean, I've always been passionate about creating change, um,
in health and wellbeing and in sport itself, but, um,
it's probably just come full circle. Um, and an opportunity
to continue to give back, um, because I've had a
fortunate where I've had, you know, a different upbringing and
I've had the trials and tribulations like anyone else. But, um,
(18:01):
I've always, you know, created a space that life's about challenges,
and you've got to challenge yourself. And you've also got
to make sure that it means something. You have purpose.
If you don't have purpose, uh, it's very hard to,
you know, do what you do. And I think I've always, um,
done something I've loved to do and always challenged it
and challenged myself to always think outside the box.
S4 (18:24):
You do need people championing your cause, though, don't you? And, uh.
Being supportive because sometimes it just doesn't happen.
S1 (18:32):
Yeah. And I think sometimes you've got to do it
yourself and it's sometimes hard where you want to get
the right support. But, um, sometimes, you know, you won't
get the support. Um, and that's probably a tough reality, um, that,
you know, particularly in sport and life after sport and,
you know, what you want to do, your dreams and aspirations. Um,
but I've always a big believer that you never forget
(18:53):
the people that have supported you, but you sometimes have
to do the hard yards yourself, and you continue to
do the hard yards to create change.
S4 (19:01):
Do you find that because you were a champion sportsman
sports person, it is easier to, to gain acceptance? Um,
and I guess, is it sometimes hard for you to
realise why others can't have the same elevation that you've
had or same acceptance?
S1 (19:16):
Oh, not really, because I think it's what you make
of life. You what you put in life is what
you get out. And of course, you know, we all
have different paths and different opportunities, but, um, you know, again,
I can't talk on what you know, how other people
have experienced it, but I can only talk about I've struggled,
I've gone through the trials and tribulations of, you know, sport, um,
post sport, um, career development, um, you know, all the
(19:39):
sort of, you know, emotions that you go through. Um,
but I've always had one thing in, in front of
my mind is, you know, do what you love and
always put that passion and drive into it. And, and,
and if you want to do something, do it yourself.
Don't wait for anyone else.
S4 (19:56):
How was it after you retired? Did you fall into
a little bit of a slump?
S1 (20:00):
Yeah, there's always there because I think, like anything, I
had aspirations of doing many things. And, um, I wanted
to just focus on what my heart says and what
my mind is sort of thinking. And I decided I
wanted to do a lot more in community around health
and wellbeing, and to inspire our next generation to believe
there's something out there for them. So, you know, again,
(20:20):
it it wasn't a well paid job. It was just
something that I loved to do. And, you know, again,
we talk about money's not everything, but you've got to
make sure that you're doing something that you love and, um, and,
and if you do something that you love, then it's
not really work, is it?
S4 (20:34):
Tell us about some of the experiences you've had because
you worked at Foreign Affairs post. Olympics poster your running career.
You've also been involved in encouraging healthy lifestyle in indigenous communities,
and now you're on a couple of boards. You're a
leader in terms of cultural and racial change. How does
(20:58):
that experience shape you as a as a person, do
you think?
S1 (21:00):
Well, it's probably important that I have that lived experience. Um,
so my lived experience of, um, you know, going through
the trials and tribulations of sport, going through different career
opportunities and, you know, doing certain things that may not
have been something I wanted to do, but I knew
there was a, you know, something that ended the road,
so to speak. So I've always been a very positive,
(21:21):
positive person, very optimistic, regardless of what, what life has
thrown at me. Um, and I've always persevered. So I
think the lived experience as an athlete, of course. And
of course, as you know, Tim, living on a boat
in the Whitsundays, you know, it's always a big trial
and error up there as well. Um, I was able
to always maintain that what you put in, put in
(21:42):
life is what you get out. Um, and you can
only control the controllables. So I was able to always,
you know, regardless of if I got injured or regardless
of I moved on to a different career or I
wasn't being successful. Um, I was always maintained that sense
of purpose, um, which sometimes is very difficult because, um,
(22:02):
you may not have always that sense of clear purpose,
but I had a clear sense of purpose. Do what
I love and always give it 120%.
S4 (22:12):
Good on you, Patrick. As I said, welcome to Sport
Integrity Australia. I'm sure you're going to make a huge difference.
Thanks very much for joining us.
S1 (22:19):
Pleasure. Thank you. Tim.
S3 (22:22):
You're listening to onside, the official podcast of Sport Integrity Australia.
S4 (22:29):
Joining us now onside is former Australian Diamonds captain and
world champion Caitlin Bassett. There isn't much that Caitlin hasn't
done in netball. She was the beating heart of the
Australian team and has 100 caps, is a two time
world champion and is a Commonwealth Games gold medallist. Caitlin
retired last year and has taken up a role at
Sport Integrity Australia as an athlete educator. She's determined to
(22:53):
ensure the next generation of Australian athletes are educated on
the threats to integrity in sport. Caitlin joins us now.
Well Caitlin, firstly welcome to Sport Integrity Australia. What was
the reason behind becoming an athlete educator?
S2 (23:07):
I was at a little bit of a loose end
after I finished playing netball. I think, and was looking
for jobs online, and one of them was for the
educator role. And I thought, I've sat through so many
of these sessions myself as an athlete, I reckon I
could do this job pretty good and it's been heaps
of fun so far.
S4 (23:27):
As an athlete, did you tune out at times?
S2 (23:29):
So it was challenging at times. I remember when I
was young, being in a room with heaps of people
and having it delivered to us. Um, when I got
a little bit older, we actually did it online and
we had to complete the units, um, as part of, uh,
to get paid basically. So it was kind of a
very big incentive there to get through some of the work.
But I think what kind of struck me and what
(23:51):
I said when I presented the other day was I
was only athlete for 18 years, and the information that
I was getting at the start of my career and
the information I was getting at the end was vastly different.
So I was always learning. Every time we came together
to do an education session, whether it be around, uh,
you know.
S5 (24:09):
Uh.
S2 (24:10):
Sorry. Whether it be around drugs in sport, whether it
be around, uh, integrity issues around, you know, wagering and
betting in sport and things like that, it was always
something new and something learning because it sport was evolving
at such a rapid rate.
S4 (24:22):
Did you find that, uh, when you go around the
shelves these days, do you have a look at batch
testing of supplements and, and work out which supplements you
can even though you're not involved in sport at an
elite level? Do you still look at those things?
S2 (24:35):
It's interesting because I'm still working in sport. I'm working
within cricket and, um, I have access to using some
of the supplements at training. And number one, I don't
use supplements anymore because I don't do any exercise. Um,
so I don't need to, but yeah, I just think, oh, wow,
I can actually take whatever I want now, if that's
what I wanted to do and didn't have to think
(24:55):
about it. Um, while I was playing, I, I did
for a little bit, um, get involved with, uh, starting
my own supplement. And that was one of the things
that was really important, obviously, was the batch testing. And, um,
as an athlete, it's just always been ingrained in me.
I guess what I put in my body is my responsibility.
And so I wanted to make sure that anything with
my name attached to it was going to be, um,
(25:15):
something that athletes were going to be able to take
safely and not have to worry because unfortunately, it is still, um,
a drama these days. You get given, you know, something
really innocuous. You go to a hotel, you're staying away,
and there's a little protein ball on your bed when
you get there is like a welcome thing. Or, you know,
you go to the shops and there's all these bits
and pieces and information and it really is scary, um,
(25:36):
you know, what to take and what not to take.
S4 (25:39):
Is that one of the messages when you go out
to speak to athletes? Now, that's what you're going to
be saying to them. Be wary of everything that you
put into your body.
S2 (25:47):
Yeah it is. And I think, you know, we see
so much in the media these days about athletes coming
out and saying, I didn't know. And, you know, I
swear I didn't do anything wrong. And, you know, the
responsibility is never on them, but it actually is. And
we don't want to scare athletes. We don't want to
terrify them. But, um, you know, they are very lucky.
Some of them are, you know, some of the athletes
(26:08):
we talk to are earning very big contracts. So it's
a lot, you know, financial for them. But it's your
reputation at the end of the day. And that's something
that you can never reverse. If someone's accused you of
cheating or doping and things like that. Um, it's kind
of irreversible that Mark will be on your career for
the rest of your life. We know the internet these days.
Never forget. So it's really important, I think, about being
(26:29):
proactive and getting ahead of these things and, and, um,
stopping athletes making silly mistakes because often they put so
much thought and effort into their training, their preparation, their diet,
their exercise. And it's just that one tiny little slip
up that can let them, you know, um, come undone.
S4 (26:45):
It's not just an anti-doping message that you're delivering either.
It's all about the integrity of the sport. You mentioned
a moment ago about wagering and what not just amongst sportswomen.
Do you think wagering is an issue? Do you think
that because we hear about it a lot in male sports,
where people are betting on everything, is it the same
with women's sports?
S2 (27:05):
Well, it is becoming that way, yes, because, I mean,
I'm currently working in cricket and when I go to
work or to watch the girls play, I have to
hand in my phone to start the game. And that's
just normal for them. Any iPhones or watches, anything that
basically can get the internet gets handed in, gets put
in a big lock box because people are understanding now
that female sport is becoming more popular and they can
(27:28):
wager it. And in a sport like cricket, you can
put bets on everything about, you know, balls, wides, you know,
there's so many tiny little things in the game that
you could potentially make into a wager. And so I
think as female sport gets bigger and grows, um, unfortunately,
people who are on the outside and potentially want to
do harm within sport kind of see an opportunity. So yeah,
(27:51):
it is important that in female sport, I guess that
we're being as diligent as we are in the men's
sport because it is starting to creep in there. And,
you know, my sport, netball, traditionally, um, was nothing that
I ever experienced when I was playing. But social media
and embedding these days is just, you know, gone through
the roof just.
S4 (28:09):
On social media. That's another aspect of, I guess, being
part of a sportsperson is these days where you do
cop it on social media. We've seen that recently with
the Australian team. How do you cope with it, and
what would be your message to to young people in
particular impacted by it, apart from simply getting off social media?
S2 (28:28):
Yeah, and that's a really hard thing. I think as
athletes these days, um, they're encouraged to build their brand
and their profile and, um, showcase what their sport is
through social media. And, and it's really cool for fans
to engage that way. And it is it was always encouraged,
you know, like, this is a great way to involve
fans in your journey. And so by opening up your
life and sharing your life to them is a great
(28:49):
way to, um, yeah, I guess bring them along on
the ride with you. But you are also opening yourself
up to the negative side, and that is obviously abuse. Um,
and some of the unkind comments that come along with it. Um,
so it's, it's finding that balance. You can't say to
a young athlete these days, don't look at social media because, um,
you know, for some of the young athletes, it's so
(29:11):
ingrained in their life, they've grown up going to school,
using the internet, using social media to connect with their friends. Um,
and so we want them to be mindful about using
it and, and getting the benefits of it, but then
also understanding that, um, there's tools and that your sporting
organisation should have ways to help you if you are
going through some struggles online.
S4 (29:32):
Did you ever have any issues with with social media abuse?
S2 (29:36):
100% uh, yeah. Look, I did, um, I think I
was one of those people that, um, yeah, definitely opened
myself up and was quite vulnerable at times to online. Um,
and it was a struggle for me. Um, and it
transferred to in person, you know, I would play a game,
maybe not play well, um, would get attacked online or
someone would question, you know, why I should be the
(29:57):
Australian captain. And then I would have to go after
a game and sign autographs and, you know, being surrounded
by fans, my head, I'm thinking, or some of these people,
the ones that are writing these negative comments about me,
and now they're asking for a photo and they want
me to sign and be friendly and open so it
can be really hard. I think, um, you know, that
online persona and who you are offline and really trying
(30:18):
to balance the two. But yeah, definitely for me, um,
I had to pretty quickly, um, upskill and, and do
a lot of work in the way of dealing with
what was coming at me at social media.
S4 (30:31):
Yes. It's not just disgruntled fans who are upset with
the result or how you're playing, but gamblers, um, who've.
Bit on the game, and something might go awry in
the game, and they'd take it out on the players.
S2 (30:44):
I know and imagine that you finished a game. You're
devastated because maybe you haven't played particularly well, or you're
gutted because it's been a major competition. Um, for example, after,
you know, finishing com games and winning silver, um, which
wasn't what we wanted in the Gold Coast in 2018,
jumping online for then people to be like, you've lost
me money. I had bets on this game. I can't
(31:06):
believe why did you miss that goal? Like you've cost
me all this and getting that abuse like that is
full on. And, um, you really have to distance yourself
from those comments. Like, I didn't tell you to put
a bet on that. I didn't tell you to put,
you know, to gamble that amount of money. Um, and
as an athlete, I guess you can't take that pressure
into playing, because imagine if every goal that I went
(31:26):
to score, I thought about that, or I wonder if
I'm losing someone money here, or is someone going to
abuse me if I miss this goal? Like that is
really distracting. So I think it's about, um, you know,
if you are reading those type of things or that
type of stuff is coming your way online, actively working
with someone to be able to put that aside so
it's not affecting your performances.
S4 (31:45):
You get the impression at times that sports are at
times struggling with how to how to keep up with everything,
because there is so much going on at the moment
and in the background you've got the safeguarding aspect as well.
But athletes need to be protected. It's up to the
sporting organization to do that. So there's a lot of
pressure on sporting organizations these days, isn't there?
S2 (32:06):
Yeah, there isn't. And I think it's fair because, um,
if the sporting organization is using your image and using
you to promote their brand, they also need to be
responsible for helping keep you safe. And I get really
frustrated when sporting organizations go, oh, we're not going to
moderate posts. So we're going to leave comments on. And
they kind of fuel the fire in, in, in regards to,
(32:27):
to letting trolls do their work. And I remember sitting
down before World Cup in 2019 with the media department
at Netball Australia and saying some of the things that
you guys do, it can affect the way that we
are treated online. So when we're posting before a game or,
you know, don't ask the question, who should be the
starting seven? Because that's inviting people to get on their
(32:49):
high horse and start slagging off players like it's about
really taking control as an organization and setting a standard that, well,
this is what we expect online. And if you, um,
if you're going to misbehave, we're going to block you or,
you know, we're going to turn off comments because, um, people,
you know, these days, they see that freedom of speech
and it's it's my right. I'm allowed to comment and
(33:10):
say whatever I want. Um, and so, you know, that's
I think when sporting organizations kind of need to step
up and go, well, actually, that's not the type of
behavior that we expect.
S4 (33:20):
It sounds like you're going to be able to bring
a lot of life skills to this role at Sport
Integrity Australia, going out, talking to athletes because you have
real life experience, don't you?
S2 (33:29):
Yeah, I do, and it's quite funny as an athlete
when you're, um, you know, training and you're in the
thick of it, you actually think, well, I'm not good
at anything. Like I can throw and catch a netball
and that's great, but how is that going to help
me in the real world? And it's really nice, um, to,
to be working this education role and understand that the
things that I learnt during sport is now so relevant
(33:49):
in helping me, helping others. And I think that's what
really drew me to, um, to the education position, not
just because I love being involved in sport still. And, um,
I love presenting and broadcast and media is a passion
of mine, but it's also about helping share the experiences
that I've had and helping others and and helping them
go through potentially an easier time. Things that I struggle with. So, uh, yeah,
(34:12):
there are a few life lessons that I've had over
the years, and, um, I love giving back, but also
I love learning off other athletes. And at the moment
they are in the thick of it. They're, you know,
social media, online abuse is rampant, gambling is rampant. All these,
you know, supplements which are getting shoved down, you know,
players throats by marketing and media companies and things like that.
(34:33):
Like it is a really scary space as an athlete. And, um,
there is a lot of pressure on them to be perfect,
not just on the field or pitch or whatever. Discipline
they're performing in, but to be offered as well.
S4 (34:43):
It's a minefield, isn't it?
S2 (34:44):
It is, but an exciting one. And I guess that's
what makes being an elite athlete so exciting. You get
the opportunities to do things that other people will not. Um,
the good and the bad and, um, yeah, you just
got to embrace the opportunities that come your way and
and learn as you go.
S4 (34:59):
Have you thought about being a coach or is it
that's not in your DNA?
S2 (35:03):
I definitely don't have the patience to be a coach. Okay. Um,
I'm working in the player well-being space at the moment,
which I enjoy, because, um, I really like that sports
are understanding that well-being and treating a person as a whole,
and not just an athlete, is really important to performance
and important to, uh, you know, when a player does
decide to leave the sport or retire, um, that we're,
(35:23):
we're going to help them and guide them in the
next area of their life because, you know, like I
see when I walk around here, there's plenty of ex
athletes who come back to sport and come back to
present and come back to help others. And I think
that's what we really want. We want elite athletes to
leave the sporting environment feeling supported that. They can come
back into it and share their experiences to help others.
S4 (35:41):
You mentioned the i-word their retirement. You've been retired for
about six months now. How hard is it for an
athlete to suddenly go from from playing at elite level
as you were, and as captain of the team, to
suddenly not have that day to day experience anymore? Is
that an issue that needs to be, uh, exploited a
little bit more?
S2 (36:02):
Yeah. Um, I think the the media likes to pump
up a fairy tale ending. And so for a lot
of athletes, they think, oh, I'm going to finish my
career on a high, I'm going to win a medal,
a championship. Um, I'm going to finish exactly the way
I want to, and then I'm just going to smooth
sail into the next area of my life. Um, unfortunately,
in sport, uh, I've, I've found out through talking to
(36:23):
lots of other athletes now and that it's, it's not
that way. And there's so many athletes that finish because
of injury, because of deselection, because of burnout. Um, you know,
they're injured. They're they've lost passion for the sport or
they've no longer been selected. And they felt like they've
been let down and they walk away, um, very unprepared, um,
both physically and mentally for what the next stage of
(36:45):
their life is. And so the last six months for
me have been ridiculously challenging. Um, I definitely wasn't prepared
for retirement, even though I thought I was, you know,
I studied while I was playing netball. I had all
these bits and pieces going on outside of sport that
I thought had prepared me really well. But at the
end of the day, um, yeah, it's literally like you've
(37:07):
been banned from going into the office. You don't have, uh,
people to train with. You don't have that support that
you're used to accessing every day, even basic things for me,
like physio. I finished, um, with, you know, two, two
knee surgeries. And so even just being able to rehab
so I could walk properly and get in and out
of my car, that was stuff that I didn't even
have access to. So it can be quite confronting.
S4 (37:30):
Yeah. So as you look back on your career, have
you got a memory that comes to mind immediately? Have
you thought, well, gee, that was good. Um, because when
you're in the thick of things, you really don't have
time to reflect, are you?
S2 (37:42):
Now you don't have time to reflect, because what happens
is you set a goal and then you achieve that goal.
And then the next day you jump to the next
goal and the next goal and the next goal. Even
if you're hitting a PB in the weights room on
the bench press, you know you're chucking on another 2.5
kilos straight away. You're always pushing for the next thing.
And I think that can be really, um, you don't
realize that as an athlete that you never actually acknowledging
(38:03):
the great things that do come your way. And when
I look back on my career and, um, I reflect
a lot through looking through old photos and talking to
some of my old teammates. And it's not, um, you know,
the big tournaments, it's it's not the comm games in
the World Cups. Because reflecting on them, I actually realize
how exhausting and, um, and challenging they were for me
(38:24):
as an athlete. Um, I like, uh, playing one game
a week. I don't like jamming everything into a week
and playing, you know, uh, seven games in ten days
in an elite tournament, um, is exhausting. And so looking back,
I think the things I miss most and the things
that make me smile most are, uh, the, the tours
(38:45):
that we went overseas, um, you know, we went to
Jamaica a couple of times, which was always interesting heading
to the UK. Um, you know, when it's 40 degrees
in Perth, jumping on a plane heading to the UK
where it's negative five degrees to go play a tournament,
then coming back to the heat again, those type of things, um,
you know, going traveling after a tournament over in, in
(39:05):
Europe or the UK, I think were, were things that
I remember really fondly. But then, you know, people always
say it's the friendships and it's the mucking around at
training and it's the laugh that you have and and
they're always things I think, um, for me now, I'm
really lucky I had those experiences.
S4 (39:20):
And just as a final question, I'm sure you get
asked this a lot. Do you do you successfully get
the exit row in planes still or.
S2 (39:27):
Yeah, I'm waiting for the bump up to business class,
but that never happens. Um, yeah, unfortunately I have to
pay for that now as well. So that's one of
the horrible things about no longer being an athlete. You've
got to pay for all your flights everywhere. Yeah.
S4 (39:39):
How tall are you, by the way?
S2 (39:40):
Six foot four. Six foot four.
S4 (39:42):
Yeah. So I imagine it's a bit of a crumple
in 30, 30 4D or something like that. Yeah.
S2 (39:47):
So maybe I left the sport too early. I think
the girls are getting business class flights now and they
had overseas, but we never did when we were playing
in tournaments over there.
S4 (39:54):
So yeah, all the best in your new role. I'm
sure it's going to go well. Caitlin, as an athlete
educator for Sport Integrity Australia, thank you, thank you.
S3 (40:05):
And now for our segment from left field where we
answer a question from the public.
S6 (40:12):
Hi, I'm Haley, I'm an education presenter with Sport Integrity Australia.
Today's left field question is are antidepressants banned as a category?
Antidepressants aren't banned in sport, and there are a number
of common medications that are permitted for use in athletes. However,
as we know, substances can change over time, so athletes
need to be careful to make sure that they're checking
(40:33):
their substances regularly. On global drew. At the end of
the day, your mental health is most important, so be
sure to check in with your doctor if you feel
like you need mental health support.
S4 (40:44):
Well, thanks for joining us on onside. I'm Tim Giveall.
See you soon with another episode of onside.
S3 (40:49):
You've been listening to onside, the official podcast of Sport
Integrity Australia. Send in your podcast questions or suggestions to
media at Sport integrity.gov. Edu for more information on Sport
Integrity Australia, please visit our website at Sport integrity.gov or
(41:11):
check out our Clean Sport app.
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