April 1, 2024 • 27 mins
This week, we’re kicking procrastination.
We’ve all been there. You’re settled down to do some revision, or write an important email, then the first thought creeps in… “What if I just checked my phone? Or… cleaned the kitchen? Or watched just half an episode of that new show…” And before you know it, 3 hours have gone by, you’re tired, and it’s too late to get started.
Procrastinating on tasks, even ones we care about, is a normal, if painful, part of life for most of us. So this week, we sit down with Dr Julia Ravey. She’s a neuroscientist, author, and self-confessed procrastinator. She’s an expert in understanding what’s happening in our brains when we put off tasks – from conflicts between the logical and emotional centres of our brains, to tricks for creating sustainable revision habits.
This is On Your Marks. Because you’ll never know until you try.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Student 1 (00:01):
I was quite bad with procrastinating.
Student 2 (00:03):
I would like to often do overtime at work instead
of studying sometimes!
Student 3 (00:08):
Until the fear set in, it was quite hard to motivate myself.
Student 4 (00:11):
Motivation is like your daily coffee. You need to drink
it daily in order to make that effect!
Krutika Adatia (00:18):
Hello, I'm Krutika Adatia, and I'm a chartered accountant. I now
support accountancy students through their training, and as an educator,
I'm regularly up close and personal with some of the
common issues people face while studying for and sitting their
accountancy exams. So, in this series for the ACCA, I'm chatting to experts about strategies
(00:39):
we can all use when facing some of life's challenges.
And this week, we're looking at something so many of
us struggle with
should be doing but can't quite bring ourselves to start
or finish. Why is it that so many of us
struggle with procrastination? What's happening in our brains when we procrastinate,
(01:00):
and what strategies can help us improve how we manage
our time? This is On Your Marks, because you'll never
know until you try. With what can sometimes feel like
constant distractions available to us, whether that's TV shows on
demand or texts on your phones, it's no wonder that
a lot of us struggle with procrastinating on tasks. I
(01:22):
know I used to get distracted by notifications on my
phone all the time, whether it's WhatsApp, iMessages, social media, or email.
It would mean I'd start a task, get distracted, and
realize I'd wasted 20 minutes scrolling or being unproductive. I
now have most of the notifications on my phone turned off,
but interestingly, I still find myself turning to my phone
(01:43):
when I'm putting off a task. I'm sure you can relate. So,
with me today to chat about all things procrastination, I've
got Dr. Julia Ravey. She's a neuroscientist, podcast producer, and
author who has recently written a book called Braintenance
Scientific Guide to Creating Healthy Habits and Reaching Your Goals. So, Julia,
(02:04):
are you a procrastinator?
Dr. Julia Ravey (02:05):
Yes, I'm a massive procrastinator. It's always on the things
that really mean a lot to me as well, and
even sometimes things that I'm looking forward to doing in
my head, I'm like, " Oh, I can't wait to get
down and work on that thing," because I know it's
going to bring me the thing that I really want
and then I come to do it and it's just like, " Nope,
I don't want to." I remember, I think it was in
my third year of university, my dissertation, it was also something
(02:27):
I really cared about, and I was like, " Oh, I really...
I'm excited to dig into that research." But every time I come
to do it, I found it so difficult, and that
was until the very, very last night before my deadline,
I was in the library, I'm not joking, all night.
I wouldn't recommend it. It was like the worst feeling I've
ever felt. I had to drink so much coffee, and
I was like, " I just need to get this done
(02:47):
because the deadline is tomorrow." The only thing that could
make me do it was that deadline being there. And
I know I could have done even better in that
assignment if I'd just done the work beforehand, but it's
not like a logical thing when you're in that moment,
you know that you should be doing it, but it's
so difficult, so difficult.
Krutika Adatia (03:06):
Do you know what? Firstly, I'm so glad you said you're a
procrastinator because, as someone who's studies the brain, knows a
little bit about it. I was thinking maybe you have
the magic. So, firstly, thank you. You are a procrastinator.
It makes me feel a little bit better. So, you
mentioned that, obviously, you had a deadline to work towards.
That's what propelled you to want to get your dissertation
done, but why is it that we procrastinate?
Dr. Julia Ravey (03:29):
Yeah, I think with procrastination, what it is when it comes
down to the bare bones of it is, it's a decision.
It's a type of choice that we're making, and our
brain is making thousands of decisions every single day. Some
of them you're really conscious of. If you go to
a coffee shop and you're like, " What do I want
to order?" You're thinking, " Oh, I'll have a latte or I'll have
a cappuccino, or whatever." Other things are a bit more unconscious.
The route you take to work, for example, you just go,
(03:51):
and sometimes you go, " How did I even get here?"
Your brain has decided which route you're going to take
because you take it all the time. So, I think when
it comes to making a decision, our brain is constantly
doing that. And what it's doing in that moment is,
it's thinking of all the options I could possibly do
and giving each of them a value. And this valuation
process can take into account things like that we actually want. So,
(04:13):
if you had a goal of like, " Okay, I really
want to eat more vegetables," and you are at the cafeteria, you look
at the choices on the board, one of the values
that your brain could be thinking is, "Oh, that dish has
got loads of vegetables, so that's going to be good, good."
But there are other things that the brain takes into
account that maybe aren't so much in alignment with what
we consciously might want. So, if you are really hungry or really,
(04:34):
really tired that day, you get those carb cravings, and
all of a sudden you're like, " Oh, I want the
dish that's covered in loads of cheese. Give me the cheese."
And that option is given a higher value. Or it
could be as well like the environment around you. So
if you go to the same coffee shop every single day,
you might feel like you just get the regular, your
brain is like, " Oh, we always get that one thing."
(04:54):
So that option is valued higher. So you have basically
your brain constantly making all these calculations as to what
should I value the most. And with procrastination, your choices
basically are, should I do this thing, which is maybe
really hard, or maybe it means a lot to me,
or should I go and scroll on my phone? Should
I do something which is really relaxing? Should I do
(05:16):
something which is going to feel nice and fun right now?
So it's actually a no- brainer when it comes to
that type of choice.
Krutika Adatia (05:22):
So that's really interesting what you've just said there. It's
helped me to understand what's happening in my brain a
little bit better. So, I know you've alluded to this
already and the answers that you've just given, but I'm
going to ask, what's happening in our brains when we
are procrastinating?
Dr. Julia Ravey (05:35):
Procrastination in the brain is a battle. Your brain is
in a battle, and this is particular areas of your
brain are fighting for which choice you should make. So,
you have these areas in the front of your brain
which are more logical, they're concerned with future planning. If
you have long- term goals, that's sort of where it's
making calculations as to what actions you should take to
(05:56):
align with those goals. But then buried a bit deeper
in the brain, we have areas involved in emotions. So
these areas are to do with, it could be like fear, sadness, joy,
all of these sorts of emotional responses we have. That area
is also fighting for which choice should be made. So,
in procrastination, you have this battle going on in your
head of the logical areas of the brain versus the
(06:19):
emotional areas of the brain. And really, procrastination happens when
either the centres are very, very loud. So if you
sit down to work, you could be thinking right, "I
know right now I do this study session, I'm going
to hopefully pass my exam." So that is the logical centres going, "yes, yes, yes,
do the work." But even that moment, your emotional centres
(06:40):
are saying, " Oh, my goodness, this is so, so hard."
If that is louder than the logical centres, then the
emotion is going to win out. Also, it could happen
the reverse way as well if the logical areas of
the brain, these frontal areas are a bit quieter in
their responses. So say, for example, you go to sit
to do your work, but you don't really have that
sort of long- term goal in mind, you're a bit like, " Well,
(07:03):
what's the point in doing this?" Or the deadline is
far away. If the deadline is far away, you go, " Ah,
it doesn't matter. I can put this off till tomorrow."
If you don't have that long- term logical focus, then
the emotional centres could win out again because that is
a weaker signal. So, really, when we are procrastinating, we are
in this battle between logic and emotion, and that's what's
(07:25):
going on in our brains, and all of us will
procrastinate a little bit more or a little bit less than each other.
All our brains are unique, so some people might find
it easier to exert the self- control. Some people might
find it a little bit tougher just because of our genetics,
our experiences. So each of us will have a tendency
to procrastinate more or less than each other as well. So,
I'd say procrastination is something that you're always going to
(07:46):
come up against, and it's not something that you should
take as, " I don't care about what I'm doing," or
not something you should take as like, " Oh, I'm rubbish
as being a student or trying to study." It's something
that we're all going to face because it is this
decision point and it's just the brain working as it should.
Krutika Adatia (08:02):
Amazing. So just so I hear you correctly, you're talking
about the emotional part of your brain kind of being
in a little bit more overdrive than the frontal logical
part of your brain?
Dr. Julia Ravey (08:13):
Yeah, that's it, because if you think about a task
that we procrastinate on, a lot of the times there
is sort of emotion loaded there because often it means
a lot to us. So that is something which can
be quite emotionally intense. Also, it could be something which
is quite difficult and hard and stressful. So what that's creating
in the brain is sort of emotional discomfort and uncertainty.
(08:35):
The brain does not uncertainty or discomfort. It will try
to escape it, but also when you come to do
a task as well, it could be factors outside of
just the task itself. It could be that you haven't
slept well that night. It could be that you're hungry.
It could be that there are other things in your life that are going on, which means
those emotional centers are on a bit more of a high alert,
and that makes it harder to exert that control. So, I think, yeah,
(08:58):
when you sit down to procrastinate, when you sit down
to work, that is going to be something that comes
up more often than you might anticipate.
Krutika Adatia (09:06):
That's really fascinating. So, I guess the emotions that you
are describing are they essentially what lead us to not
wanting to get started with something? So, how is it
that we get over that initial hump of wanting to
get started with something, and how does motivation feed into
that as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (09:24):
Yeah, I think a lot of us have probably felt
this before. It's almost like the fear of starting something
is worse than actually doing it, and you build it
up in your head to be this huge thing, and
once you actually do it, you go, "Oh, it wasn't that bad." So, what
we want to do is try and get over that
initial hump to sort of show to ourselves, " Look, it's
not that scary. It's not that hard, it's not that bad."
(09:45):
So what I like to do is try and think
of something really, really small that I can do as
sort of a starter task. So, for example, if I
was trying to write an essay, my starter task would be, "
Okay, I'm just going to write three sentences." That, I
think, gives you a long enough time to sort of
try and get into something but three sentences. I mean,
in your brain, you go, " I can write three sentences." Come
(10:07):
on, you're not thinking I'm going to write a thousand
words. You think three sentences, that's great. If you're sitting
down to do a practice math problem, you say, " I'm
going to do one problem, and that's it." And after
that, I can stop if I want to. But I find, nine
times out of 10, once you actually start doing it and
get into it, you will keep going. So it's nice
to have a mini- goal to sort of get you
going. I always find to get over. Then, when it
(10:29):
comes to motivation... Motivation, I have a funny relationship with it because
I think it's a great thing when you have it.
When you feel that motivation wave, you are riding it,
New Year's resolution, that type of vibe. It feels amazing
to have motivation and you're doing your work and you
feel great, but if you don't have motivation, then you
(10:49):
feel really, really rubbish, and it can almost be read
as a sign for your brain of, 'Oh, I don't have
motivation, therefore I don't want to do it, or therefore
I can't do it." So, I think with motivation, you
should see it as an emotion. Sometimes it's high, sometimes
it's low, it's not always going to be there. So,
I would say what is quite important with revision and
(11:12):
trying to get into a routine and not procrastinate is
to say, " Right, I'm going to study short amount of
time, but I'm going to do it consistently." So that
could be, it's going to be every weekday at, I
don't know, nine in the morning. And so, you have a little slot,
it's almost like an appointment in your diary. You have
a little slot there, and you show up and do
it. And if motivation's there, great, you might want to
(11:32):
go a little bit longer. If it's not there, you
turn up, you do your small little task, you try and keep going
a little bit, but if you can't, you've done your
small task and you move on, and you show up the
next day. And I think it is about that repetition to
really drill it into your routine.
Krutika Adatia (11:46):
That's refreshing to hear that motivation is just an emotion,
because often you think that if you want to pursue
something, that innate motivation has got to be there. So that's
really quite refreshing to hear. And you spoke about blocking
out time to complete these small tasks. So how important
is time management in all of this as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (12:03):
I think time management is a funny one because when it comes
to procrastination, I think time management can help, but I
think the problem actually is emotional management. So with time
management, it's like, " Okay, I've got my diary, I'm going
to block things out." But we all know that if your
heads are in the right space, you could have the
(12:23):
perfect diary, color coordinated, bam, bam, bam, I've got it
all in there. If your head's not in the game,
you will just not do it. So, I think with procrastination, it
is about being able to override that emotional discomfort that
you feel. So with the small little tasks we were
talking about getting over the hump, and there are other
little methods that I definitely have in my back pocket,
which can help, but time management can help. I'd say
(12:44):
with that because a lot of the time with these tasks,
we procrastinate on a big negative emotion we feel is
overwhelm. You can look at it and go, " Oh my
goodness, I've got a whole syllabus to learn for this
exam. I need to know all of these different things.
I don't know any of them." And that overwhelm can
drive us to just not want to do it. So I would
say with time management, the way we can help get
(13:06):
rid of that emotional sort of overwhelm is to break it
down. Take your syllabus and break every topic down into
subtopics, even subsubtopics if you want to, and then sit and put them
into your diary of what you're going to do exactly
on that day. You could do this if you have
an exam coming up, you could do it for a
whole syllabus, or you could do it week by week
(13:29):
if that's a little bit more how you feel. You
could sit on a Sunday and go, " Right, what am
I doing each day this week?" But you've got your
list there, and that means that when you show up
to do your work, you are not having to go, "
Oh my god, I'm so overwhelmed, what should I do?"
You've got it there in front of you already, so
that takes out something off the table already, right? Today,
I'm studying this one thing. So I think that's how
time management can really help us. And then showing up
(13:51):
again repeatedly over and over again. You want to get
your study routine almost to be a bit like brushing
your teeth, something you just do, no drama. You just
show up, and you do it. And I think because
the connotations of studying and what it can lead to
has such a big, " Oh my god, this could change
my life because it could." But if you just take it as
(14:12):
like, okay, I'm just going to go to my desk today, show up, and I'm going
to do my work. If you have no drama, it's
much, much easier to do. So time management can help
with that emotional management side of stuff, definitely, it can
just remove some of that intensity around the situation.
Krutika Adatia (14:26):
I like that. So you've really tied that into just
planning out things so that as a student, let's say,
listening to this, they're thinking right, need to get on, book
my exam, right I've got the exam, here's my syllabus,
let's break it down. This week, I'm covering this. That's
a fantastic actionable step to take away. Now, you mentioned
routines as well there. So with routines, not everyone finds
(14:49):
it easy, right? Julia, so what are your tips and
advice around setting routines? What are the best practices around
that as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (14:57):
I think routines are hard because people look at the
way of routine and go, " Oh, so boring. Oh, so
boring." But I think boring is sometimes good. Brushing your
teeth isn't fun, but you do it every day. So having
a bit of boredom is actually quite good. It's better
to be a bit bored than have a lot of
drama around it. But the thing with routine, which is
difficult, is life. So you could have the most perfect
(15:21):
routine that you think in your mind that something happens
in your life and that gets all thrown out the
window. So I think what's important is to look at
your diary, keep your revision time to be a sort
of short- ish period that, if you could extend it, you could.
I'd say it's better to do it over a longer
period of time, short bursts every day than try and
(15:41):
cram and feel like you've got a cram all in
the last minute. So I would say look for a
short amount of time, and which window could you fit
it in your day? Some people might think, " Oh, I've
got kids. I've got a job where time always overruns."
I think, where in your day could you fit that
20 minutes or something like that? Get it in there,
(16:04):
and consistently show up and do it over and over
again as much as you can. Now, it's not going
to happen every single day, but I think if it
doesn't happen one day, dust yourself off, and the next day,
just try again. If you find it's not working for
you, experiment, it doesn't have to be, " Okay, I've picked
nine, and that's what I've got to stick to." No,
experiment with it as well. And I would say, really
think about when you work best. We all know when
(16:28):
we work best. I think, I know for me the
morning is my time, but if I'm not in the
right zone, I will stay up too late, be watching
that Netflix, watching that TV, and then the next morning
I'm too tired to get up, and then I miss
my time where I would be studying. So it's about looking
at your entire day and thinking, " If I went to
bed half an hour earlier, that means I could get up a bit earlier
(16:50):
and do it then." So I would say experiment, have
a bit of fun with it, play around with it,
and see where it fits into your day. And if
it's a little bit boring, as in, you're showing up to the same
thing every day, I think that's not a bad thing.
Krutika Adatia (17:03):
Okay. So it's a case of figuring out what works best for
you, and like you say everyone, it's going to be
unique for everyone. I just want to circle back to something
you said about sort of cramming and this idea that,
especially with students, there tends to be that tendency to
cram. And you also mentioned something about potentially giving yourself
a break. How important is it to also take breaks, and
(17:24):
how does that feed into procrastination? Do you have any thoughts
on that?
Dr. Julia Ravey (17:29):
I think it's vital. Taking a break is so important
for your brain to digest the information that you're trying
to remember. And the brilliant thing about our brains is,
the more you repeat and go over stuff, the more
it's going to remember and retain that information. So if
you give yourself a really good run- up time for
an exam and you do a little bit each day
and then you are covering that material over and over
(17:50):
again in little bites, then you are going to retain
that much better. If you are trying to cram what you're trying
to do there is keep all of this brand new information
in these sort of frontal parts of your brain where
we have our short- term sort of memory, it doesn't
have really enough time to sink into that nice long-
term memory. It's still too fresh. So I would always
say, the longer run- up you can get, the better, so you
(18:12):
can cover the material over and over again. And taking
breaks too, like your brain needs the break to be
able to like, " Oh, that idea just clicks together." You
always have your best ideas when you're in the shower,
when you're on a walk, that's because your brain is
in a different zone to when you're focusing on, " I
need to learn this information." It allows those connections to
sort of, " Oh, that fits with that, that fits with
(18:32):
that," and things just click and start to make sense.
So, breaks are vital, and if you don't take breaks,
those emotional centers will be screaming. So when you come
to do work, procrastination is probably going to happen more often if
you haven't given yourself any time off.
Krutika Adatia (18:47):
Okay, so what I'm hearing you say is that, as
part of your planning, you ought to factor in some breaks
there as well.
Dr. Julia Ravey (18:53):
Plan your breaks like your study, I'd say, because it's
so easy to be like, " Oh, I've got to do
this task today, this task," and then you don't put
in any time to break and you'll have some empty gaps
in your schedule. But then the empty gaps that can
all of a sudden run into, " Oh, I have to do this,
or I could keep working and I could..." Guilt- free breaks,
you want to put them in there, and you go, " Ah,
this is my two hours where I'm going to just
chill and no pressure." During university, I would do that.
(19:14):
I would work really early in the morning. I would
finish by half three, four, and I wouldn't think about work.
I think if you have it, you do it, you
let your brain relax, let all that sink in, and
go from there. So yeah, definitely schedule breaks.
Krutika Adatia (19:28):
Yeah, so with ACCA, we have students that will book
their exams, and generally they'll have a 12 to 13-
week window, and within that 12 to 13- week window, we often
tell our students that they ought to have some time
for planning, and then studying, and then practice. Granted, there's
an overlap between the studying and the practice, but does
(19:48):
that generally fit in with the recommendations and advice that
you've been giving us through this conversation today, Julia?
Dr. Julia Ravey (19:54):
Yeah, I think that is really good, the planning that takes
out that drama because you know what you're going to
do, and I actually really enjoy the planning. I sit
with a cup of tea and I'm like, " Oh, let's
map out my weeks." And yeah, I really enjoy that.
So if you're planning in advance, that means when you
show up to do the studying, you know exactly what
you need to do. And then, with the studying, you
(20:14):
have these little, tiny mini- goals almost to tick off
as you go along, which is a really nice thing for your
brain to have. I think when we procrastinate sometimes as
well, it's because we don't have a big reward when
we go to do say a study session, but if
you have today I'm going to do syllabus, section one
A, B, or whatever it is, then you have a nice
thing to tick off, you've got something like I've completed
(20:36):
that rather than just like, " Oh, I need to revise again today."
You don't have any element of reward or satisfaction with
that. So I think having the studying has broken down
into little bits that's really helpful for giving you a
little bit of motivation. And then, with the practice, the
brain loves repetition for remembering stuff, so practicing things over
and over again, that it really sink into your memory
(20:57):
when it comes to the exam. You'll be able to
hopefully retain that information and get it out.
Krutika Adatia (21:01):
That sounds great. And actually, just something I want to
call out as well is, the ACCA do have a
digital tool. It's a planning tool called Compass, and we're
often encouraging students to do that. So it's really nice
that you've called out that we should have mini subtasks
that students can tick off, and our Compass planner allows
students to do that as well. So just to think
about, you mentioned good habits earlier as well. Are there
(21:23):
any tips about students being able to form good habits
and good study habits in general as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (21:29):
Yeah, I'd say the things we've spoken about, showing up
at the same time every day, that's something which is
good because it becomes part of your routine. I'd say
something we don't really consider when we are forming new
habits is our environment. What is around us? And that is something
that I found personally in my life. If I go
back to my family home and I try to get up
(21:50):
early in the morning, I find it so difficult because I'm in my
teenage bedroom, where I'm used to sleeping in until 11
It's funny, when I'm at my normal house, I can
get up early and work, but I think just think
about what's around you. What have you done in this
space before? Is this the desk where you always procrastinate?
Why didn't we try and work somewhere else? Or am
I trying to work on the couch, where I normally
(22:11):
chill? Your brain's not going to be in the right
space, so think of your environment. And another great thing
I like is to have almost like a specific cue
that can help you revise. So something, for example, like
a candle you only light when you do your revision,
that will give you almost like an initiator of it's
time to revise. Your brain will sort of be capturing
(22:33):
that information of... Maybe it's the candle itself or the
smell that it has, that it's like, " Oh, I know
when this happens. This is when I work." So giving
yourself something like that or a playlist, something like that, that
you only have on when you study, that can really
help to craft an environment where you feel like, " Yes,
I'm ready to go and get in the zone."
Krutika Adatia (22:52):
I like that, giving yourself a little trigger for your
brain to actually get into that zone.
Dr. Julia Ravey (22:58):
Yeah, because triggered all the time, everything we do is
normally triggered by something, " Oh, I want to eat that
food, that's because I'm hungry." We have all of these
triggers, so create a trigger for you to want to
study. I think that's a good little tip that I've
used throughout my whole time at university and beyond really.
Krutika Adatia (23:15):
Yeah. And you also mentioned, if this is the place
where you study and you often procrastinate, we consider that.
I'm just thinking about students studying on their laptops, and
laptops nowadays have YouTube and they have Netflix, and what
can students be doing to avoid clicking into some of
these applications? So they're actually just thinking about the studying,
and I mean, I don't know if we have an
(23:36):
answer for that, but do you have any tips or thoughts?
Dr. Julia Ravey (23:39):
Well, a good thing to do if you're able to study without the internet,
you're able to get your bits and bobs out, you
can just cut the internet. I mean, that's quite a hard one, but
I know some people actually have those timers you have
for when you go on holiday, you put your lights
on a timer. Some people have that for their internet
router, and it switches their internet off for an hour, and then
(23:59):
it'll come back on automatically. But if you have a
steady time, it would then cut your router off. So
you can actually be like, that's a very, we call
it like we're trying to block out the distraction. We're
trying to completely block it. That's one way, as well,
to manage your procrastination. If you know it's your phone, put that phone in
a drawer and do not let yourself touch it, and
build in procrastination breaks if you need to. So if you're like, " Oh,
(24:22):
I just really want to check Instagram," you can be like, " Right, okay, well,
I'll have a five- minute Instagram check after I've done
this thing. So when that urge comes, you know you
have that built in. You're not completely abstaining, but you're
not going to do it and break your flow when
you're working.
Krutika Adatia (24:37):
And that's really great. And I did not know about
this thing that you can turn off your internet. I
think I might need to consider doing that. But thank
you so much for the conversation, and just want to
wrap up by asking you. You've said some great tips
and tricks to manage procrastination, but do you have three strategies
for kicking procrastination if you were to summarize them?
Dr. Julia Ravey (24:57):
Yes. I would say, if you're sat there and you
feel like you want to procrastinate, these were three things that
I would do. The first is something I call a pop-
up list. So when I'm working, I have a piece
of paper next to me, and if a thought pops
into my head, it's normally very random. It'll be like, "
What time is it in New York right now?" That
is my brain trying to procrastinate. It's my brain trying to
get me out of this thing that I find not
(25:19):
comfortable and start Googling, " Oh, what's the weather like in
Spain?" So I will just write it on the list.
And it's so funny, when you look at that list,
you realize how many random things your brain throws at
you. I would say most of them are nonsense, but
it also captures the things that are important as well.
I don't know about you, but sometimes when I go
to work and it's hard, I will remember something important.
(25:40):
I haven't rang the dentist back and I needed to
book that appointment, but then you've written it down so
you can sort of go, " Forget about it. I'll do
it later." So pop- up list, I'd say, is number
one. Two is a timer. So if you are struggling
to work, I would say start yourself off with 20-
minute timer with a five- minute break. It's called the Pomodoro
Technique. But I find that to be super helpful because
(26:00):
then if you want to procrastinate, you're like, " Well, I
can in that five- minute break, I can do whatever
I want in that five- minute break of mine." But
for these 20 minutes, I am going to focus. It
just eases you into your work and also prevents you
from feeling this desperate need to stop because you know
you have got a time to stop. So I say
(26:20):
that. And the third thing I would say is, be curious about procrastination.
We're all going to do it at some point. Why do you want
to procrastinate on this thing? What is it about it? Is
it that it's too hard? Well, if it's too hard,
what is it about it that's hard? Is it this? I
just don't understand this one tiny bit. Forget the study
session for today, that is what you're going to do.
So if it's too hard, is it that it means a
(26:41):
lot to you? Well, that's a good thing, really, in
a way. So I think with procrastination, don't just see
it as a sign of, " Oh, I'm going to stop
and fall into it," and go, " Oh, I'm not going
to do it." Ask why, " Why am I procrastinating?" And
a lot of the time, it's actually a sign that
you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and you're
doing something that, in the long run, will really, really
(27:02):
help you. So that's something that I always try my
very best to do in that moment where I just
want to throw in the towel.
Krutika Adatia (27:09):
That's it from this episode of On Your Marks. Thank
you, Julia, for chatting with me today. For more information
about ACCA exams, you can go to www.accaglobal. com/ exams.
See you next time. I'm Krutika Adatia, and this has been
On Your Marks.
I was quite bad with procrastinating.
Student 2 (00:03):
I would like to often do overtime at work instead
of studying sometimes!
Student 3 (00:08):
Until the fear set in, it was quite hard to motivate myself.
Student 4 (00:11):
Motivation is like your daily coffee. You need to drink
it daily in order to make that effect!
Krutika Adatia (00:18):
Hello, I'm Krutika Adatia, and I'm a chartered accountant. I now
support accountancy students through their training, and as an educator,
I'm regularly up close and personal with some of the
common issues people face while studying for and sitting their
accountancy exams. So, in this series for the ACCA, I'm chatting to experts about strategies
(00:39):
we can all use when facing some of life's challenges.
And this week, we're looking at something so many of
us struggle with
should be doing but can't quite bring ourselves to start
or finish. Why is it that so many of us
struggle with procrastination? What's happening in our brains when we procrastinate,
(01:00):
and what strategies can help us improve how we manage
our time? This is On Your Marks, because you'll never
know until you try. With what can sometimes feel like
constant distractions available to us, whether that's TV shows on
demand or texts on your phones, it's no wonder that
a lot of us struggle with procrastinating on tasks. I
(01:22):
know I used to get distracted by notifications on my
phone all the time, whether it's WhatsApp, iMessages, social media, or email.
It would mean I'd start a task, get distracted, and
realize I'd wasted 20 minutes scrolling or being unproductive. I
now have most of the notifications on my phone turned off,
but interestingly, I still find myself turning to my phone
(01:43):
when I'm putting off a task. I'm sure you can relate. So,
with me today to chat about all things procrastination, I've
got Dr. Julia Ravey. She's a neuroscientist, podcast producer, and
author who has recently written a book called Braintenance
Scientific Guide to Creating Healthy Habits and Reaching Your Goals. So, Julia,
(02:04):
are you a procrastinator?
Dr. Julia Ravey (02:05):
Yes, I'm a massive procrastinator. It's always on the things
that really mean a lot to me as well, and
even sometimes things that I'm looking forward to doing in
my head, I'm like, " Oh, I can't wait to get
down and work on that thing," because I know it's
going to bring me the thing that I really want
and then I come to do it and it's just like, " Nope,
I don't want to." I remember, I think it was in
my third year of university, my dissertation, it was also something
(02:27):
I really cared about, and I was like, " Oh, I really...
I'm excited to dig into that research." But every time I come
to do it, I found it so difficult, and that
was until the very, very last night before my deadline,
I was in the library, I'm not joking, all night.
I wouldn't recommend it. It was like the worst feeling I've
ever felt. I had to drink so much coffee, and
I was like, " I just need to get this done
(02:47):
because the deadline is tomorrow." The only thing that could
make me do it was that deadline being there. And
I know I could have done even better in that
assignment if I'd just done the work beforehand, but it's
not like a logical thing when you're in that moment,
you know that you should be doing it, but it's
so difficult, so difficult.
Krutika Adatia (03:06):
Do you know what? Firstly, I'm so glad you said you're a
procrastinator because, as someone who's studies the brain, knows a
little bit about it. I was thinking maybe you have
the magic. So, firstly, thank you. You are a procrastinator.
It makes me feel a little bit better. So, you
mentioned that, obviously, you had a deadline to work towards.
That's what propelled you to want to get your dissertation
done, but why is it that we procrastinate?
Dr. Julia Ravey (03:29):
Yeah, I think with procrastination, what it is when it comes
down to the bare bones of it is, it's a decision.
It's a type of choice that we're making, and our
brain is making thousands of decisions every single day. Some
of them you're really conscious of. If you go to
a coffee shop and you're like, " What do I want
to order?" You're thinking, " Oh, I'll have a latte or I'll have
a cappuccino, or whatever." Other things are a bit more unconscious.
The route you take to work, for example, you just go,
(03:51):
and sometimes you go, " How did I even get here?"
Your brain has decided which route you're going to take
because you take it all the time. So, I think when
it comes to making a decision, our brain is constantly
doing that. And what it's doing in that moment is,
it's thinking of all the options I could possibly do
and giving each of them a value. And this valuation
process can take into account things like that we actually want. So,
(04:13):
if you had a goal of like, " Okay, I really
want to eat more vegetables," and you are at the cafeteria, you look
at the choices on the board, one of the values
that your brain could be thinking is, "Oh, that dish has
got loads of vegetables, so that's going to be good, good."
But there are other things that the brain takes into
account that maybe aren't so much in alignment with what
we consciously might want. So, if you are really hungry or really,
(04:34):
really tired that day, you get those carb cravings, and
all of a sudden you're like, " Oh, I want the
dish that's covered in loads of cheese. Give me the cheese."
And that option is given a higher value. Or it
could be as well like the environment around you. So
if you go to the same coffee shop every single day,
you might feel like you just get the regular, your
brain is like, " Oh, we always get that one thing."
(04:54):
So that option is valued higher. So you have basically
your brain constantly making all these calculations as to what
should I value the most. And with procrastination, your choices
basically are, should I do this thing, which is maybe
really hard, or maybe it means a lot to me,
or should I go and scroll on my phone? Should
I do something which is really relaxing? Should I do
(05:16):
something which is going to feel nice and fun right now?
So it's actually a no- brainer when it comes to
that type of choice.
Krutika Adatia (05:22):
So that's really interesting what you've just said there. It's
helped me to understand what's happening in my brain a
little bit better. So, I know you've alluded to this
already and the answers that you've just given, but I'm
going to ask, what's happening in our brains when we
are procrastinating?
Dr. Julia Ravey (05:35):
Procrastination in the brain is a battle. Your brain is
in a battle, and this is particular areas of your
brain are fighting for which choice you should make. So,
you have these areas in the front of your brain
which are more logical, they're concerned with future planning. If
you have long- term goals, that's sort of where it's
making calculations as to what actions you should take to
(05:56):
align with those goals. But then buried a bit deeper
in the brain, we have areas involved in emotions. So
these areas are to do with, it could be like fear, sadness, joy,
all of these sorts of emotional responses we have. That area
is also fighting for which choice should be made. So,
in procrastination, you have this battle going on in your
head of the logical areas of the brain versus the
(06:19):
emotional areas of the brain. And really, procrastination happens when
either the centres are very, very loud. So if you
sit down to work, you could be thinking right, "I
know right now I do this study session, I'm going
to hopefully pass my exam." So that is the logical centres going, "yes, yes, yes,
do the work." But even that moment, your emotional centres
(06:40):
are saying, " Oh, my goodness, this is so, so hard."
If that is louder than the logical centres, then the
emotion is going to win out. Also, it could happen
the reverse way as well if the logical areas of
the brain, these frontal areas are a bit quieter in
their responses. So say, for example, you go to sit
to do your work, but you don't really have that
sort of long- term goal in mind, you're a bit like, " Well,
(07:03):
what's the point in doing this?" Or the deadline is
far away. If the deadline is far away, you go, " Ah,
it doesn't matter. I can put this off till tomorrow."
If you don't have that long- term logical focus, then
the emotional centres could win out again because that is
a weaker signal. So, really, when we are procrastinating, we are
in this battle between logic and emotion, and that's what's
(07:25):
going on in our brains, and all of us will
procrastinate a little bit more or a little bit less than each other.
All our brains are unique, so some people might find
it easier to exert the self- control. Some people might
find it a little bit tougher just because of our genetics,
our experiences. So each of us will have a tendency
to procrastinate more or less than each other as well. So,
I'd say procrastination is something that you're always going to
(07:46):
come up against, and it's not something that you should
take as, " I don't care about what I'm doing," or
not something you should take as like, " Oh, I'm rubbish
as being a student or trying to study." It's something
that we're all going to face because it is this
decision point and it's just the brain working as it should.
Krutika Adatia (08:02):
Amazing. So just so I hear you correctly, you're talking
about the emotional part of your brain kind of being
in a little bit more overdrive than the frontal logical
part of your brain?
Dr. Julia Ravey (08:13):
Yeah, that's it, because if you think about a task
that we procrastinate on, a lot of the times there
is sort of emotion loaded there because often it means
a lot to us. So that is something which can
be quite emotionally intense. Also, it could be something which
is quite difficult and hard and stressful. So what that's creating
in the brain is sort of emotional discomfort and uncertainty.
(08:35):
The brain does not uncertainty or discomfort. It will try
to escape it, but also when you come to do
a task as well, it could be factors outside of
just the task itself. It could be that you haven't
slept well that night. It could be that you're hungry.
It could be that there are other things in your life that are going on, which means
those emotional centers are on a bit more of a high alert,
and that makes it harder to exert that control. So, I think, yeah,
(08:58):
when you sit down to procrastinate, when you sit down
to work, that is going to be something that comes
up more often than you might anticipate.
Krutika Adatia (09:06):
That's really fascinating. So, I guess the emotions that you
are describing are they essentially what lead us to not
wanting to get started with something? So, how is it
that we get over that initial hump of wanting to
get started with something, and how does motivation feed into
that as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (09:24):
Yeah, I think a lot of us have probably felt
this before. It's almost like the fear of starting something
is worse than actually doing it, and you build it
up in your head to be this huge thing, and
once you actually do it, you go, "Oh, it wasn't that bad." So, what
we want to do is try and get over that
initial hump to sort of show to ourselves, " Look, it's
not that scary. It's not that hard, it's not that bad."
(09:45):
So what I like to do is try and think
of something really, really small that I can do as
sort of a starter task. So, for example, if I
was trying to write an essay, my starter task would be, "
Okay, I'm just going to write three sentences." That, I
think, gives you a long enough time to sort of
try and get into something but three sentences. I mean,
in your brain, you go, " I can write three sentences." Come
(10:07):
on, you're not thinking I'm going to write a thousand
words. You think three sentences, that's great. If you're sitting
down to do a practice math problem, you say, " I'm
going to do one problem, and that's it." And after
that, I can stop if I want to. But I find, nine
times out of 10, once you actually start doing it and
get into it, you will keep going. So it's nice
to have a mini- goal to sort of get you
going. I always find to get over. Then, when it
(10:29):
comes to motivation... Motivation, I have a funny relationship with it because
I think it's a great thing when you have it.
When you feel that motivation wave, you are riding it,
New Year's resolution, that type of vibe. It feels amazing
to have motivation and you're doing your work and you
feel great, but if you don't have motivation, then you
(10:49):
feel really, really rubbish, and it can almost be read
as a sign for your brain of, 'Oh, I don't have
motivation, therefore I don't want to do it, or therefore
I can't do it." So, I think with motivation, you
should see it as an emotion. Sometimes it's high, sometimes
it's low, it's not always going to be there. So,
I would say what is quite important with revision and
(11:12):
trying to get into a routine and not procrastinate is
to say, " Right, I'm going to study short amount of
time, but I'm going to do it consistently." So that
could be, it's going to be every weekday at, I
don't know, nine in the morning. And so, you have a little slot,
it's almost like an appointment in your diary. You have
a little slot there, and you show up and do
it. And if motivation's there, great, you might want to
(11:32):
go a little bit longer. If it's not there, you
turn up, you do your small little task, you try and keep going
a little bit, but if you can't, you've done your
small task and you move on, and you show up the
next day. And I think it is about that repetition to
really drill it into your routine.
Krutika Adatia (11:46):
That's refreshing to hear that motivation is just an emotion,
because often you think that if you want to pursue
something, that innate motivation has got to be there. So that's
really quite refreshing to hear. And you spoke about blocking
out time to complete these small tasks. So how important
is time management in all of this as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (12:03):
I think time management is a funny one because when it comes
to procrastination, I think time management can help, but I
think the problem actually is emotional management. So with time
management, it's like, " Okay, I've got my diary, I'm going
to block things out." But we all know that if your
heads are in the right space, you could have the
(12:23):
perfect diary, color coordinated, bam, bam, bam, I've got it
all in there. If your head's not in the game,
you will just not do it. So, I think with procrastination, it
is about being able to override that emotional discomfort that
you feel. So with the small little tasks we were
talking about getting over the hump, and there are other
little methods that I definitely have in my back pocket,
which can help, but time management can help. I'd say
(12:44):
with that because a lot of the time with these tasks,
we procrastinate on a big negative emotion we feel is
overwhelm. You can look at it and go, " Oh my
goodness, I've got a whole syllabus to learn for this
exam. I need to know all of these different things.
I don't know any of them." And that overwhelm can
drive us to just not want to do it. So I would
say with time management, the way we can help get
(13:06):
rid of that emotional sort of overwhelm is to break it
down. Take your syllabus and break every topic down into
subtopics, even subsubtopics if you want to, and then sit and put them
into your diary of what you're going to do exactly
on that day. You could do this if you have
an exam coming up, you could do it for a
whole syllabus, or you could do it week by week
(13:29):
if that's a little bit more how you feel. You
could sit on a Sunday and go, " Right, what am
I doing each day this week?" But you've got your
list there, and that means that when you show up
to do your work, you are not having to go, "
Oh my god, I'm so overwhelmed, what should I do?"
You've got it there in front of you already, so
that takes out something off the table already, right? Today,
I'm studying this one thing. So I think that's how
time management can really help us. And then showing up
(13:51):
again repeatedly over and over again. You want to get
your study routine almost to be a bit like brushing
your teeth, something you just do, no drama. You just
show up, and you do it. And I think because
the connotations of studying and what it can lead to
has such a big, " Oh my god, this could change
my life because it could." But if you just take it as
(14:12):
like, okay, I'm just going to go to my desk today, show up, and I'm going
to do my work. If you have no drama, it's
much, much easier to do. So time management can help
with that emotional management side of stuff, definitely, it can
just remove some of that intensity around the situation.
Krutika Adatia (14:26):
I like that. So you've really tied that into just
planning out things so that as a student, let's say,
listening to this, they're thinking right, need to get on, book
my exam, right I've got the exam, here's my syllabus,
let's break it down. This week, I'm covering this. That's
a fantastic actionable step to take away. Now, you mentioned
routines as well there. So with routines, not everyone finds
(14:49):
it easy, right? Julia, so what are your tips and
advice around setting routines? What are the best practices around
that as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (14:57):
I think routines are hard because people look at the
way of routine and go, " Oh, so boring. Oh, so
boring." But I think boring is sometimes good. Brushing your
teeth isn't fun, but you do it every day. So having
a bit of boredom is actually quite good. It's better
to be a bit bored than have a lot of
drama around it. But the thing with routine, which is
difficult, is life. So you could have the most perfect
(15:21):
routine that you think in your mind that something happens
in your life and that gets all thrown out the
window. So I think what's important is to look at
your diary, keep your revision time to be a sort
of short- ish period that, if you could extend it, you could.
I'd say it's better to do it over a longer
period of time, short bursts every day than try and
(15:41):
cram and feel like you've got a cram all in
the last minute. So I would say look for a
short amount of time, and which window could you fit
it in your day? Some people might think, " Oh, I've
got kids. I've got a job where time always overruns."
I think, where in your day could you fit that
20 minutes or something like that? Get it in there,
(16:04):
and consistently show up and do it over and over
again as much as you can. Now, it's not going
to happen every single day, but I think if it
doesn't happen one day, dust yourself off, and the next day,
just try again. If you find it's not working for
you, experiment, it doesn't have to be, " Okay, I've picked
nine, and that's what I've got to stick to." No,
experiment with it as well. And I would say, really
think about when you work best. We all know when
(16:28):
we work best. I think, I know for me the
morning is my time, but if I'm not in the
right zone, I will stay up too late, be watching
that Netflix, watching that TV, and then the next morning
I'm too tired to get up, and then I miss
my time where I would be studying. So it's about looking
at your entire day and thinking, " If I went to
bed half an hour earlier, that means I could get up a bit earlier
(16:50):
and do it then." So I would say experiment, have
a bit of fun with it, play around with it,
and see where it fits into your day. And if
it's a little bit boring, as in, you're showing up to the same
thing every day, I think that's not a bad thing.
Krutika Adatia (17:03):
Okay. So it's a case of figuring out what works best for
you, and like you say everyone, it's going to be
unique for everyone. I just want to circle back to something
you said about sort of cramming and this idea that,
especially with students, there tends to be that tendency to
cram. And you also mentioned something about potentially giving yourself
a break. How important is it to also take breaks, and
(17:24):
how does that feed into procrastination? Do you have any thoughts
on that?
Dr. Julia Ravey (17:29):
I think it's vital. Taking a break is so important
for your brain to digest the information that you're trying
to remember. And the brilliant thing about our brains is,
the more you repeat and go over stuff, the more
it's going to remember and retain that information. So if
you give yourself a really good run- up time for
an exam and you do a little bit each day
and then you are covering that material over and over
(17:50):
again in little bites, then you are going to retain
that much better. If you are trying to cram what you're trying
to do there is keep all of this brand new information
in these sort of frontal parts of your brain where
we have our short- term sort of memory, it doesn't
have really enough time to sink into that nice long-
term memory. It's still too fresh. So I would always
say, the longer run- up you can get, the better, so you
(18:12):
can cover the material over and over again. And taking
breaks too, like your brain needs the break to be
able to like, " Oh, that idea just clicks together." You
always have your best ideas when you're in the shower,
when you're on a walk, that's because your brain is
in a different zone to when you're focusing on, " I
need to learn this information." It allows those connections to
sort of, " Oh, that fits with that, that fits with
(18:32):
that," and things just click and start to make sense.
So, breaks are vital, and if you don't take breaks,
those emotional centers will be screaming. So when you come
to do work, procrastination is probably going to happen more often if
you haven't given yourself any time off.
Krutika Adatia (18:47):
Okay, so what I'm hearing you say is that, as
part of your planning, you ought to factor in some breaks
there as well.
Dr. Julia Ravey (18:53):
Plan your breaks like your study, I'd say, because it's
so easy to be like, " Oh, I've got to do
this task today, this task," and then you don't put
in any time to break and you'll have some empty gaps
in your schedule. But then the empty gaps that can
all of a sudden run into, " Oh, I have to do this,
or I could keep working and I could..." Guilt- free breaks,
you want to put them in there, and you go, " Ah,
this is my two hours where I'm going to just
chill and no pressure." During university, I would do that.
(19:14):
I would work really early in the morning. I would
finish by half three, four, and I wouldn't think about work.
I think if you have it, you do it, you
let your brain relax, let all that sink in, and
go from there. So yeah, definitely schedule breaks.
Krutika Adatia (19:28):
Yeah, so with ACCA, we have students that will book
their exams, and generally they'll have a 12 to 13-
week window, and within that 12 to 13- week window, we often
tell our students that they ought to have some time
for planning, and then studying, and then practice. Granted, there's
an overlap between the studying and the practice, but does
(19:48):
that generally fit in with the recommendations and advice that
you've been giving us through this conversation today, Julia?
Dr. Julia Ravey (19:54):
Yeah, I think that is really good, the planning that takes
out that drama because you know what you're going to
do, and I actually really enjoy the planning. I sit
with a cup of tea and I'm like, " Oh, let's
map out my weeks." And yeah, I really enjoy that.
So if you're planning in advance, that means when you
show up to do the studying, you know exactly what
you need to do. And then, with the studying, you
(20:14):
have these little, tiny mini- goals almost to tick off
as you go along, which is a really nice thing for your
brain to have. I think when we procrastinate sometimes as
well, it's because we don't have a big reward when
we go to do say a study session, but if
you have today I'm going to do syllabus, section one
A, B, or whatever it is, then you have a nice
thing to tick off, you've got something like I've completed
(20:36):
that rather than just like, " Oh, I need to revise again today."
You don't have any element of reward or satisfaction with
that. So I think having the studying has broken down
into little bits that's really helpful for giving you a
little bit of motivation. And then, with the practice, the
brain loves repetition for remembering stuff, so practicing things over
and over again, that it really sink into your memory
(20:57):
when it comes to the exam. You'll be able to
hopefully retain that information and get it out.
Krutika Adatia (21:01):
That sounds great. And actually, just something I want to
call out as well is, the ACCA do have a
digital tool. It's a planning tool called Compass, and we're
often encouraging students to do that. So it's really nice
that you've called out that we should have mini subtasks
that students can tick off, and our Compass planner allows
students to do that as well. So just to think
about, you mentioned good habits earlier as well. Are there
(21:23):
any tips about students being able to form good habits
and good study habits in general as well?
Dr. Julia Ravey (21:29):
Yeah, I'd say the things we've spoken about, showing up
at the same time every day, that's something which is
good because it becomes part of your routine. I'd say
something we don't really consider when we are forming new
habits is our environment. What is around us? And that is something
that I found personally in my life. If I go
back to my family home and I try to get up
(21:50):
early in the morning, I find it so difficult because I'm in my
teenage bedroom, where I'm used to sleeping in until 11
It's funny, when I'm at my normal house, I can
get up early and work, but I think just think
about what's around you. What have you done in this
space before? Is this the desk where you always procrastinate?
Why didn't we try and work somewhere else? Or am
I trying to work on the couch, where I normally
(22:11):
chill? Your brain's not going to be in the right
space, so think of your environment. And another great thing
I like is to have almost like a specific cue
that can help you revise. So something, for example, like
a candle you only light when you do your revision,
that will give you almost like an initiator of it's
time to revise. Your brain will sort of be capturing
(22:33):
that information of... Maybe it's the candle itself or the
smell that it has, that it's like, " Oh, I know
when this happens. This is when I work." So giving
yourself something like that or a playlist, something like that, that
you only have on when you study, that can really
help to craft an environment where you feel like, " Yes,
I'm ready to go and get in the zone."
Krutika Adatia (22:52):
I like that, giving yourself a little trigger for your
brain to actually get into that zone.
Dr. Julia Ravey (22:58):
Yeah, because triggered all the time, everything we do is
normally triggered by something, " Oh, I want to eat that
food, that's because I'm hungry." We have all of these
triggers, so create a trigger for you to want to
study. I think that's a good little tip that I've
used throughout my whole time at university and beyond really.
Krutika Adatia (23:15):
Yeah. And you also mentioned, if this is the place
where you study and you often procrastinate, we consider that.
I'm just thinking about students studying on their laptops, and
laptops nowadays have YouTube and they have Netflix, and what
can students be doing to avoid clicking into some of
these applications? So they're actually just thinking about the studying,
and I mean, I don't know if we have an
(23:36):
answer for that, but do you have any tips or thoughts?
Dr. Julia Ravey (23:39):
Well, a good thing to do if you're able to study without the internet,
you're able to get your bits and bobs out, you
can just cut the internet. I mean, that's quite a hard one, but
I know some people actually have those timers you have
for when you go on holiday, you put your lights
on a timer. Some people have that for their internet
router, and it switches their internet off for an hour, and then
(23:59):
it'll come back on automatically. But if you have a
steady time, it would then cut your router off. So
you can actually be like, that's a very, we call
it like we're trying to block out the distraction. We're
trying to completely block it. That's one way, as well,
to manage your procrastination. If you know it's your phone, put that phone in
a drawer and do not let yourself touch it, and
build in procrastination breaks if you need to. So if you're like, " Oh,
(24:22):
I just really want to check Instagram," you can be like, " Right, okay, well,
I'll have a five- minute Instagram check after I've done
this thing. So when that urge comes, you know you
have that built in. You're not completely abstaining, but you're
not going to do it and break your flow when
you're working.
Krutika Adatia (24:37):
And that's really great. And I did not know about
this thing that you can turn off your internet. I
think I might need to consider doing that. But thank
you so much for the conversation, and just want to
wrap up by asking you. You've said some great tips
and tricks to manage procrastination, but do you have three strategies
for kicking procrastination if you were to summarize them?
Dr. Julia Ravey (24:57):
Yes. I would say, if you're sat there and you
feel like you want to procrastinate, these were three things that
I would do. The first is something I call a pop-
up list. So when I'm working, I have a piece
of paper next to me, and if a thought pops
into my head, it's normally very random. It'll be like, "
What time is it in New York right now?" That
is my brain trying to procrastinate. It's my brain trying to
get me out of this thing that I find not
(25:19):
comfortable and start Googling, " Oh, what's the weather like in
Spain?" So I will just write it on the list.
And it's so funny, when you look at that list,
you realize how many random things your brain throws at
you. I would say most of them are nonsense, but
it also captures the things that are important as well.
I don't know about you, but sometimes when I go
to work and it's hard, I will remember something important.
(25:40):
I haven't rang the dentist back and I needed to
book that appointment, but then you've written it down so
you can sort of go, " Forget about it. I'll do
it later." So pop- up list, I'd say, is number
one. Two is a timer. So if you are struggling
to work, I would say start yourself off with 20-
minute timer with a five- minute break. It's called the Pomodoro
Technique. But I find that to be super helpful because
(26:00):
then if you want to procrastinate, you're like, " Well, I
can in that five- minute break, I can do whatever
I want in that five- minute break of mine." But
for these 20 minutes, I am going to focus. It
just eases you into your work and also prevents you
from feeling this desperate need to stop because you know
you have got a time to stop. So I say
(26:20):
that. And the third thing I would say is, be curious about procrastination.
We're all going to do it at some point. Why do you want
to procrastinate on this thing? What is it about it? Is
it that it's too hard? Well, if it's too hard,
what is it about it that's hard? Is it this? I
just don't understand this one tiny bit. Forget the study
session for today, that is what you're going to do.
So if it's too hard, is it that it means a
(26:41):
lot to you? Well, that's a good thing, really, in
a way. So I think with procrastination, don't just see
it as a sign of, " Oh, I'm going to stop
and fall into it," and go, " Oh, I'm not going
to do it." Ask why, " Why am I procrastinating?" And
a lot of the time, it's actually a sign that
you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and you're
doing something that, in the long run, will really, really
(27:02):
help you. So that's something that I always try my
very best to do in that moment where I just
want to throw in the towel.
Krutika Adatia (27:09):
That's it from this episode of On Your Marks. Thank
you, Julia, for chatting with me today. For more information
about ACCA exams, you can go to www.accaglobal. com/ exams.
See you next time. I'm Krutika Adatia, and this has been
On Your Marks.
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