Open Line Thursday Dec 11th 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is VOCM Open Line Call seven oh nine two
seven three fifty two eleven or one triple eight five
ninety eight six two six abusing opinions of this programmer,
not necessarily those of this station. The biggest conversation in
Newfoundland and Labrador starts now Here's VOCM Open Line Host

(00:22):
Paddy Daily.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well, all right and good morning to you. Thank you
so much for tuning into the program. It's Thursday, December
the eleventh. This is Open Line. I'm your host, Patty Daily.
Matt Barron is sitting in the producer's chair this morning.
You'll be speaking with Matt when you give us a
call to get into Q and on the air. The
topic up to you. If you're in the Saint John's
metro region. The number of dialists seven zero nine two
seven three five two one one. Elsewhere a toll free

(00:44):
long distance one eight eight eight five ninety VOCM, which
is eighty six twenty six. Stuck a little hockey here
to get a call. So I am looking forward to
the Winter Olympics, and of course the first game for
Team Canada's going to be against Chechia on the twelfth
of February. There's been already six players named to the team.
We think by the end of this week about eighty
percent of the roster will be announced. The six of

(01:05):
already got them out, Sidney Crosby, Nathan McKinnon, Kale McCarry,
Connor McDavid, Braden Point and Sam Ryan Hurt. Pretty solid
six players. But here's the weird story. And I've been
following this for a little while. The rink isn't even
built yet. And you know, even when we talked about
hosting the Canada Games here in town or some national events,
you have to have the dimensions right to hit national standards,

(01:26):
which kept some of our facilities out of the running.
And we've had to do some upgrades to accommodate national
events here just in the province, but for the Olympics.
So the hockey rinks that are being built and the
ice isn't even down yet, they're not even as big
as NHL rings. I mean, we're used to seeing the
players go abroad playing Europe on European sized rings, but
these are going to be smaller than the NHL ringks.
It's so weird. You'd think there'd be some minimum standards

(01:49):
to host Olympic Games. So the IOC says, you know,
it's not going to jeopardize public safety. The NHL doesn't
really agree. So whether it be Bettman or Daily, of course,
the two gentlemen at the of the National Hockey League,
they still have growing concerns about whether or not the
ice itself was going to be safe and conducive to
that level of competitive hockey. But the rink isn't even

(02:09):
as big as an NHL rink, So weird. Anyway. In
the women's hockey, the Rivalry series continued last night Game
three between Canada the United States, and we got smoked
ten to four for the Americans last night. I think
it's the first time the ladies team has ever given
up ten goals in one of these major competitions. But
boy boy, that's not good. Let's get into the courts.

(02:32):
So interesting observation from former Crown Prosecutor Mike Murray, who
has joined us on this program many times in the past.
He's always welcomed, and this is about provincial court operations,
so the impact that it may have outside the walls,
so we know we're talking about traffic court and civil
hearings and other circuit courts. So they had operations suspended
since the twenty eighth of November. Mister Murray makes an

(02:52):
interesting observation. Human nature is pretty clear in that if
you think you can get away with something, you'll probably try.
And in this case, he goes on to a pine
that because traffic tickets may indeed end up getting thrown
out because of length of time inability to challenge the
ticket in court, that if people think that's the case,
then maybe, just maybe they'll display even more reckless behavior

(03:14):
behind the wheel, speeding, dangers driving, whatever the case we be.
I don't know what the likelihood of that is, but
it's a fair observation because you know it to be true.
If people know, or at least think they can get
away with something, they're going to try it. So it's
just one of those complications with access to justice being denied.
Insofar as whatever's causing this operation suspension. Staffing is what

(03:36):
it feels like, and it's good to know there's been
a working group struck, but that doesn't change anything today.
If it's staffing, the working group can only point out
the obvious, we need to hire more staff. So that's
an interesting thought on what people might be willing to
attend because they think their tickets will probably eventually get
thrown out if there's no opportunity to challenge in court.
Your thoughts, Okay, this one obviously much more serious and complicated.

(04:02):
So you've heard the story of a thirty to year
old man arrested war and accused of two counds of
attempted murder, three counts of assault with the weapon, three
counts of assault causing bodily harm. And this was all
in relation to attack on three residents at the Saint
John's department building. The man arrested his thirty two year
old Mitchell Rose, to begin with, obviously feels terrible for

(04:25):
those who have been victimized, and they're all in hospital
one critical condition. So these are very very serious crimes.
I'm not going to necessarily go so far, and I
don't even know if it's required to put a label
on it, but some people will think and say that
Mitchell Rose is also a victim. And here's why they
think it. So Mitchell Rose, nineteen or twenty years of age,

(04:46):
was diagnosed with PTSD eventually got a formal diagnose of schizophrenia.
His mother and sister in the recent past has seen
him spiral, you know, deepening state of psychosis, and so
consequently quite worried about Mitchell as to whether or not
he himself and possibly even others. And now this has happened.
At one point he was on what they call it
community treatment order. It's a pretty important distinction. It's a

(05:08):
designation issued by a psychiatrist that can provide mandatory and
involuntary care to a person with severe mental illness. Unbeknownst
to the family, he was released from this designation. I mean,
for someone who mayeed be incapable of making sound decisions,
it seems outrageous to me that the system failed him
so miserably and consequently failed the three victims, the alleged victims,

(05:32):
I guess at this moment in time, so he's arrested,
which of course nobody has any choice. But that designation
came with a lot of caveats. So with mister Rose
likely unable to make good decisions, be a risk to
himself or others, when that designation went away, so did
it safe the public safety aspect, so the r and
c's Mental Health Crisis Response Unit, they don't have the

(05:55):
authority that's under that Act, so they can go to
his environment request of his mother and sister they can knock,
and Mitchell Rose simply said, I don't want to talk
to you. You can't come in, And so all they
could do, as told by Mitchell's mother, is simply say, well,
if you feel unwell or if you deepened into some
sort of crisis, call eight one one. That's not much

(06:17):
to offer for someone who was obviously in this state
of mind. And I'm not a medical health professional, so
I don't know how to refer to things as psychosis
and what have you. Butt pretty clear that's what's happened
to her. So again, to begin with, I feel terrible
for the victims. They must have been terrified, and the
injuries look and sound quite serious and severe. But how

(06:39):
can this happen? How can this possibly happen to the victims,
to public safety, to the Rose family? You know, if
there's someone a psychiatrist has deemed this person to have
to be assigned this designation, what changed, you know, the
ability for them to monitor and to ensure that Mitchell

(07:00):
Rose is taking his medications is no risk to himself
or others. But this happened. So this is a distinct
failing in the system. It obviously is if you are
ever in a position to get this designation, then obviously
consultation with family. People who know this person the best,
are closest to them, will see them on a frequent

(07:21):
or daily basis, to not even know that he was
no longer inside this community treatment order. Anyway, it's a
terrible story and it is complicated, and I'm not here.
I don't even know why we should try to designate
a level of grief or sadness for one group or another.

(07:42):
But the victims, I feel absolutely terrible for them. They
had no idea what was coming, and it was extremely serious.
Mitchell Rose now had no idea what was coming because
he was in a state of mind that, pardon me,
that did not allow him to make good decisions. Oh boy,
you want to talk about it, we can do it.
And then this story Austin Deere who has plied guilty

(08:03):
to two charges of the dam just driving causing death.
So he's in the sentencing phase and I don't know
what the sentence is going to be, and I know
it's been particularly tense situation. You know, R and C
or RCMPF had to be on site in Clarenville because
people are obviously and justifiably angry with what mister Deer
has done. And two women are dead, so we'll see

(08:27):
what the end result will be. But the question that's
asked me all the time, and I'm not so sure
how important this question might be, but I get it repeatedly,
especially a lot of emails on it the last couple
of days, because the sentencing phases on is who's paying
these legal bills? Is it the union? Is it NATEE
where mister Deeer had worked or not? And I don't know.

(08:48):
I think these are nate members wondering. And the short
answer is I don't know. But if it's something you
think it's important to you that we can absolutely talk
about it here on the program. Okay, boy, they're tricky.
Let's get into some healthcare action and in this case
wait times. People understandably get quite worried when they've visited

(09:08):
the family doctor, given a referral to a specialist for
a diagnostics and or a procedure of some kind, and
the wait times are severe. I was surprised to hear
in this based on a study coming from the Phraser
Institute think tank that I think is quite fair to
label them as very conservative. So in this problems way

(09:29):
times back in nineteen ninety three to get the actual
treatment was ten point six weeks. Now it's forty three
point five weeks. Boil Boy. But I was also quite
surprised to read that this problems has the lowest way
times in Atlantic Canada. New Brunswill had the worst. In
New Brunswick nineteen ninety three, it was twelve point three weeks.

(09:50):
Now it's sixty point nine weeks.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Now.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Let's just give some numbers from across the country, and
there's a reason why I'm doing this. BC went from
ten point four to thirty point two. Alberta went from
ten point five to thirty six. Saskatchewan went from nine
point eight to thirty four point eight, Manitoba ten point
five to thirty nine point one, Quebec seven point three
to thirty two point five. I gave you a New Brunswick.
Here's PI went from seventeen point one to forty nine

(10:13):
point seven this province forty three point five. Overall national
average nine point three weeks to twenty eight point six.
The lowest way times in the country Ontario, which I
guess we have to incorporate some of what might be
the factors that see that reduced wait time in the
Province of Ontario, even though that's still a long time
to wait, isn't it. So they're moving into Phase two

(10:34):
to expand the number of private clinics offering publicly funded
healthcare inside of private setting. It's going to roll out
early next year and this is going to be four
additional centers offering hip and knee replacements. The province is
spending one hundred and twenty five million dollars over two
years going to add up to twenty thousand orthopedic surgeries
at these community clinics. Okay, I suppose this plays some

(10:55):
role in the reduced wait times in the Province of Ontario.
And they're also expanding MRIs into the private setting as well.
For me, diagnostic imaging is a different kentle of fish
versus surgical procedures. What some people who worry about expansion
of private health care, and there's plenty of private health
care in this country already, what some of the concern
might be is if we don't adopt a bit more

(11:17):
of a hybrid European type of model where doctors who
were in the public sector move into the private, they
still have to move back into the public sector at
times to provide care because not everyone's going to be
able to afford to go to a private clinic, right right. Then.
Some of additional concerns voiced by others and many is
that if doctors can choose to move into the private sector,

(11:40):
then they will have the ability to refuse some patients,
which already happens. You know, there's doctors out there won't
take you on if you're a smoker, or if you're
more morbidly obese, what have you. So does the queue
get that much relief if we expand private healthcare? And
a lot of this is in contravention of the kind
of Health Act. But the wiggle room here, or the
workaround available is they can fund fund publicly funded in

(12:03):
a private setting. So is that going to be the
next wave of provincial moves in this country? You see
it in Alberta, he could certainly see it in Ontario,
and I think if you ask the general tax paying public,
they just want to see a healthcare professional. But it'll
be interesting to get your thoughts on that, because that
is a certain big change what's been happening all right?

(12:24):
Last one in healthcare. So the province's highest billing doctor
has not been suspended. That's doctor Harry Dang. Okay, so
this is on behalf of the College of Physicians and Surgeons.
What we don't know and this was first published at
all Newfilanta, Labrador. We don't know why the license hasn't
been suspended, but I think he would be interesting to
find out. He's only been in the healthcare profession in

(12:46):
this province for a couple of years and these are
records available publicly. He had built a province seven hundred
and twenty thousand dollars up to the end of the
twenty twenty three twenty twenty four fiscal year. In his
second year, Dang became the highest billing fee for service
to act in the province with four point nine million
in services built to the Medical Care Plan MCP. So
next close was two point five million, so just about

(13:07):
double billings for mister or doctor Dang. So he's got
a great academic background top these classes. At the University
of Toronto a Bachelor of Science degree. He placed in
the nineteen nine percent all on his Medical college admission
test and kat and entered med school a year early. Okay,
graduated medical degree from the University of Oda one twenty eighteen,
first in his class in ophthalmology, a bunch of awards

(13:29):
and scholarships. Okay, that's all great, But is there something
about the amount of money built by doctor Dang and
why is that important? Because it is important and it'd
be nice to know if we're going to see any
information publicly disclosed on that front. Put yeah, all right,
maybe I'm just particularly interested in this this next topic,
and I've talked about it a couple of times this week.

(13:50):
I'm gonna do it again. It's about how we all
use social media. It can be pretty gross and so
we all know as of yesterday the law change in Australia,
so of the age of sixteen we're baded from social
media platforms. Now, it's probably not going to work. I mean,
the workarounds are certainly available there. But it does beg
a lot of questions about social media usage. You know,

(14:12):
I've been reading a different points of view on a
different perspectives, and it goes all the way from this
is government overreach to putting pointing fingers a blame at
government for this move. Okay, I can buy that, you know,
government over each is something we could all and should
be weary of. But what gets lost in many people's
thoughts on government over each is what about the kids?

(14:34):
I mean, isn't that the ultimate question here? Obviously, unless
there's some really heavy handed legislation to deal with the
tech companies, they're not going to do anything. I mean,
subscribers and clicks drives revenue. So yeah, we can talk
about government's role here, but I think the prime area
of concern for me anyway would be about youth and
what it's doing to them if they're so active on

(14:56):
social media. It'd be nice to have a real sign
tific study into our survey partent me, because there's plenty
of scientific studies that have showed the downsides of social media.
But let's get some conversation going there. It's basically going
to be left up to parents for youth in Australia
to be encouraged to abide by the band, and or
for just some good guidelines being brought forward in the

(15:18):
home about how social media is utilized. If it has
been detrimental to so many young people and so many adults.
I would also suggest is some actual public discourse, honest,
open and Frank mature conversation is long overdue because we
see what's happening, and Australia's taking this move and the
world will be watching, and the workarounds are readily available.

(15:39):
They're already talking about it as youth in that country.
And just because we just mentioned the age of sixteen,
I'm going to float it back out there, just so
I could take another few swats. I think the time
has come to talk about lowering the voting age to sixteen.
I do. I mean, just think about it if I'm
sixteen years of age and I'm working and paying taxes,
but I don't have to say I'm not so sure

(16:00):
how fair that is. And then the argument is, well,
they don't know enough about the world to cast the vote.
I'm not so sure how accurate that might be, because remember
how many people out there will simply vote for the
party because they always did, you know, or how many
people out there really don't follow much in the way
of policy. But there's follow along with the pop culture impact,
the personality impact, the gravitas, the charisma as opposed to

(16:23):
actually what that person is saying behind the glossy smile
and the firm handshake. But lord of the voting age sixteen.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
I kind of like it. I'll get smoked for that one.
All right. A couple more very quick ones. And it's
hard to know where the American's heads are around some
of these issues. But people have been wondering whether or
not this was coming, and apparently it's common and maybe
very very soon visitors to the United States, including countries

(16:53):
like let's see or at a list of countries that
they were talking about. Do we even have the right thing? Yeah? Okay,
So this is a proposal post on the Federal Register
by US Customs Border Protection. They're saying that coming from
other countries that are part of the visa waiver program,
so visiting for less than ninety days, they're going to
have to give up more of their personal information. Citizens
from forty two countries that have been named, including the

(17:15):
United Kingdom, New Zealand, Australia, Japan, Israel, Katar, as well
as many other European countries. Canada for now is exempt.
Your passport is all you need to get in the
United States, and of course whether or not you have
a criminal background. Okay, So they're going to have mandatory
requests of high value data elements including a person's phone

(17:36):
number and email addresses over the prior five years, plus
close family members names and birth dates along with their birthplaces,
residents' phone numbers over the previous five years. It used
to be optional, and now they're going to have a
look through your social media. This is pretty wild stuff.
Right now, Canada's exempt, but as we know, that could
change with the blink of an eye because of the
unpredictable nature of the current administration. So here's according to

(17:59):
the applicants are asked to set their profiles to public,
and lack of an online social media presence could be
seen as a negative that may be held against them
in the application process. The State Department has said they
are going to vet applicants for student visas. For get
this hostile attitudes towards our citizens, culture, government institutions, or

(18:19):
founding principles. So if you got something bad to say
about what's going on in the United States today or
sometime in the past five years, that might be enough
reason to keep you out. Boy oh boy, all right.
I was going to get into a few more. But
how we do non phone matter? Haven't been looking at
the phone lines? Is anybody out there listening, how we
do non the phones there, Matt this morning, I haven't
been looking all right. Oh, this is last two because

(18:45):
when high profile people have decided amongst themselves in the
family to get medical assistances in dying, it gets back
into the news headlines. And in this case it is
the story of Robert Munch, beloved children's author. So he
is ill and has four years been approved to get
medical assistants and dying. And you know, we hear from
some corners that that's the go to offer, and you're

(19:06):
not wrong when we hear stories of members of the
Canadian military who are veterans and they have some sort
of issue and the first thing they offered, well, have
you considered medical assistants and dying? It's absolutely inappropriate. That's
not how made should have been designed. It's certainly not
how she'll be delivered. The process is pretty comprehensive. It's
not just as William Nilie's you can walk into a

(19:26):
doctor's office and never walk out again. But I know
it's a very tricky conversation, but as we say all
the time, the trickiest conversation is probably the most important
to have. Last one in this son a personal note,
I've been working with Dave Williams as my producer for years.
I've grown up around the Williams family and went to school.

(19:48):
We all went to the same schools. I've only ever
known Dave Williams's father as mister Williams. For a lifetime,
that's all I called him, was mister Williams. But sadly,
after a pretty long stint of being unwell, well, Dave's
dad died. So my deepest condolences to the Williams family.
And I know mister Williams a little bit, but imagine

(20:09):
I don't know his first name because I've only ever
called him mister Williams. And I don't really feel like
bugging Dave here today, but we're really sad to hear
you're lost, David. So between Dana and Tara and Greg
and Missus Williams really sorry to know that this has happened.
We all we all feel terrible and we want to
offer our sincere condolences to you and to all his friends.

(20:31):
We're on Twitter where vocem up online. You can follow
us there. Email addresses open Lana FOSM dot com. When
we come back. We've been talking a bit of Beata Nord.
Equinor's tune has changed somewhat on jobs that might come
to this province. Bob Fianner's the executive director of Trades
and l he takes it off and then it's you
don't go away?

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Is open line on the VOCM big Land FM Radio network.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go to line number one,
secret one to the executive Director of Trades and now
that's Bob Fiander. Good morning, Bob, great, can you put
that on for me? My clicker isn't working Moran, Bob,
you're Onrey Patty? How are you?

Speaker 4 (21:06):
I'm doing fine?

Speaker 2 (21:06):
How about yourself? That's a bad toll. Thanks for asking.
All right, let's get into it. So for the longest while,
Equinor is pretty clear subse work would be done here,
top sides to be done elsewhere. I guess through conversations
possibly witho fellaws like you and Premier Wakem, they are
going to offer a local expression of interest with some
caveats based on cost of schedule. Your thoughts.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
Well, First of all, I want to commend the premiere
for his ongoing commitment to this issue and to the
workers in the province. Recently, he very publicly endorsed that
he is a pro trade union premier, and I think
that's important that didn't get picked up by the media.

Speaker 4 (21:40):
I don't know why.

Speaker 5 (21:41):
It's a great certainly newsworthy and also to the developer
equinor for coming to the plate. Good potential here now
that we're going to construct some of those modules, so
we have the commitment to open the OI up for
modular construction to occur here in the province. There are
some concerns arising from that, ey in my opinion, such

(22:03):
as well, there are a couple of things that come
to mind. The modules, if they're designed in such a
manner that they're too big, gives a disadvantage to the
people and the contractors in the province, and that's covered
off in the benefits guidelines. But there's potential for that,
and we don't need that. That's the whole purpose of
modular construction. So you can break them down to manageable pieces.

(22:27):
There's better quality, better productivity, better safety. The other thing
is I'm not sure that the contractors are going to
come to the plate or joint ventures. There's a feel
in this industry right now that this may be only
a tick in the box. And if this is only
a tick in the box, it costs contractors and their
joint ventures a lot of money to come out put

(22:47):
a bid package together for these modules, and they want
to be making sure that they're not wasting their time
and resources to get full consideration.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
For this work. And that's the tricks.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
There are a couple of concerns.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
I know, I can understand that in full, because if
you feel like the fix is in, then that's not fair,
because that's not what we're talking about here. But if
you feel like you will not have a legitimate fair
shoutout of contract, companies may indeed just say I'm not
going through the exercise, because you're right. It's not simple,
as you know, putting pen to paper and saying okay,
so let's see here, let's bid ten million dollars. It's

(23:18):
a comprehensive package required to even have approved or accepted
or returned to these EOI. So you probably have a
pretty fair point there, Bob. If people don't think there's
a real opportunity there, they'll just not waste the money
in the time.

Speaker 5 (23:32):
I think it's a real concern, and I think some
of the answers lie in our legislation in the Benefits Guide.
CNP be updated the Benefits Planned Guidelines in October twenty
twenty four.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
Just take it quickly.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
I'll pick out a few.

Speaker 5 (23:45):
Things here and there, because there's a lot of information
in this document. But two point two is full and
fair opportunity. So the regulator interprets full and fair opportunity
to mean the companies in New from Land and Labrador
and other parts of Canada are afforded the same opportunity
to participate in all aspects of a project. Proponents should
describe how their contracting strategies will not unfairly disadvantage Canadian

(24:07):
and Newfundland Labrador suppliers and how they will apply full
and fair principle in their procurement activities. So that's really important.
Gives a level of comfort. We need to know that
that's there.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, So, realistically speaking, can anything change at the CNLPB
level or at the provincial level to change the process
before economics the final investment decisions, which feels like it's
coming maybe late next year early twenty seven.

Speaker 5 (24:34):
Look again, Patty, there's all kinds of information that guides
us in this document and another thing. First consideration for
employment deployment of Canadians, in particular members of the labor
force of the province. Essential feature of governments as enshrined
in the Accord Acts concerning offshore resource development. The first
consideration for employment requires that the proponent and its contractors

(24:57):
look first to Newfoundland and Labrador labor market to meet
their when resources requirements. I don't see that they've done
that here on the construction piece at all. In fact,
it's moved from zero construction in the twenty eighteen Framework
Agreement to a potential now of construction. And we need
that comfort now from federal and provincial governments that this
is going to get over the line.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
How do we ensure that we don't repeat what excell
Marbile did back with the Hebron work. Is they simply said, Okay,
we know what the Benefits agreement says, but we're doing
it our way and our penalty one hundred and fifty
million dollars here we go, and we're just going to
move on our merry way because that's still a loop
Paul available, isn't it.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
Well they have to have agreement, though, Patty so again
in the document, the ministers from federally and provincially have
a lot to say about that. The regulator has a
lot to say about that, and they have to operate
within the confines of this legislation in order to treat
this correctly, and we expect that. So I'm going to
make the statement here today that if this benefits plan,

(25:56):
guidelines is followed and its purpose, then there will be
a lot of construction activity here for the data North.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, I mean you've stuck out a number like seventy
to seventy five percent, and I want to misquote you,
but somewhere in that neighborhood for that amount of work
to be done here, is it something happens in the
industry where you do some of the top side as
opposed to with South Korea or Singapore gets it and
does it. All I mean is that something can be
broken down in more bite sized morsels.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
Sure. Absolutely.

Speaker 5 (26:25):
Again in the modular construction. If you look online, BWO
shows you how they construct these top sides and there's.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Certainly all together in modular.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
So no issue there. We can build that. We've shown
it in the past. Our productivity, quality and safety we
will deliver. If there's an issue on cost. It is
not our issue. I can tell you that we will
bring everything that we need to bring to the plate.
We need the federal and provincial governments involved in this
to say, look, this is our resource, Newfoundland and Labrador,
Canada's resource.

Speaker 4 (26:56):
We need to have buy in.

Speaker 5 (26:58):
We need to have people working in Canada and in
our province and this is a solution to that. Right now.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
Is there any concern with how logspin since we've done
this kind of extensive top size work.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
Absolutely not. I mean we've done projects here in the past,
so now we're back to somebody challenging our ability to
build projects. Were the best people in the world for
these projects? We've shown we can use our industrial expertise
across many sectors including hydrid development, including refineries, including offshore installations.

(27:32):
And if you go back, we've built the turnover the FPSO,
We've built a CROs FPSO, and then we've done all
the North amist for the CROs subc here in the
province about five hundred thousand person hours. And from what
I hear, and someone can correct me if I'm wrong,
the subse that's being bid right now is only about
a million person hours. So that's certainly not up to

(27:57):
the quality or the amount of work that will be
created if we do top sides here.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
You've been into them both, fair enough. You've been using
fourteen thousand as a number of people represent that or
out of work. Has that never changed?

Speaker 5 (28:07):
Fourteen thousand is around accurate, Patty. Look, some of those
people may be somewhere else in the world, and may
be somewhere else across Canada because.

Speaker 6 (28:16):
We have to work.

Speaker 5 (28:17):
But when we have projects in this province of this magnitude,
we have to take advantage of them. They don't come
around often enough.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, well, that's fair enough, and who knows how many
more of these type of projects will happen into the future.
The last one for you, it would be an interesting
quote unquote problem to have if many of these things
come to pass at the same time, whether it be
work on the Churchill River, whether it be Beta, nor
whether it be people from this province working on the
proposed pipeline from Albert's VC's north coast. Is that a

(28:48):
good thing or a potentially tricky piece of business to navigate?

Speaker 5 (28:51):
It's an absolute good thing. If we keep talking about
how are we going to grow this province? How are
we going to put Canadians to work? How are we
going to put new from Landers and Labradorians to work? Yeah,
have to capitalize on these types of projects. Do you
have to expand that and build on everything else around? Absolutely,
you don't forget anything. But these projects help us keep going.
They put industry in this province. It's what created the

(29:14):
offshore industry. Initial construction from Hibernie and following suit. We
should not get off that path. It's been good to us.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Appreciate the time, Bob, anything else you like to say.

Speaker 5 (29:24):
I absolutely, I'd ask the Prime Minister Carrenty to develop
that are determined that the Beta Nord project is a
project to national interests and they'd be an injection of funds,
whether that be in equity stake or some sort of
tax credit or incentive. But we need some help here
right now. We need to make sure that the contractors
are not going out and just bidding this work. And
it's a tick in the box. We need our governments

(29:47):
to come to the plate, follow the benefits guidelines that
are in place. We need a regulator to follow the
benefit guidelines that are in place.

Speaker 4 (29:53):
Would be in good shape if we do that.

Speaker 2 (29:55):
Appreciate your time, Bob, thanks for doing it. Thanks, Patty,
You're welcome. Pye Bodcat Pop Fiander is the secutive director
at Trades and Let's get a break in. Oh wait,
I know someone asked me if the outering road has
been reopening around Paradise, and it has been. Don't go away?

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Is open? Line on the VOCM Bigland FM Radio Networks.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Got a tangle going here, Let's go Welcome back to
the show. Let's go to line number two. Joe, you're
on the air.

Speaker 4 (30:21):
Good morning, Patty.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Are you doing okay? How about you?

Speaker 7 (30:24):
Good boy, Joe?

Speaker 6 (30:25):
I got a Joe.

Speaker 7 (30:26):
Sorry, Patty mixed up here this morning, my first time caller.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Welcome.

Speaker 4 (30:31):
I like to show here.

Speaker 7 (30:32):
Yeah, I'm calling this morning. Pat I don't know if
you'd give me answered this, but I was kind of
bottered this morning. I went to get my driver's license
renewed this morning. Okay, so there was two other individuals
in front of me.

Speaker 8 (30:48):
Those people.

Speaker 7 (30:49):
I'm not biased, I'm not racist like that. But those
two guys had their turbans on, so they didn't have
to remove anything. Great gear noning what already winning and
got her picture? Take no sign so I went in
with my ball cap on my glasses. I had to
remove my ball cap, take off my glasses to.

Speaker 6 (31:08):
Get my picture taken.

Speaker 7 (31:09):
Now is that right for us as Canis or New Filanders?
We got aboyed by our law or do d Boyd
bar law?

Speaker 8 (31:18):
Our law law?

Speaker 2 (31:19):
That's actually our law as a matter of fact, and
it's an interesting case study. So this is as old
as the nineteen eighties. So there was one individual East Indian,
a Sikh, who challenged this in court and he was
one to be He was a recruit in the ICMP.
So went through the courts and then the Brian Mantroney
government actually enshrined in the Charter Rights and Freedoms and

(31:39):
then it's been upheld by the Supreme Court since. So
this has been in So, just to answer your question
in short order, they're not actually following their laws. They're
actually following our laws. That's been that's been the case
since the nineties.

Speaker 7 (31:53):
Right, yeah, so but with our laws were not allowed
to go in with our acts or whatever on. But anyway, well,
good to know, petty.

Speaker 2 (32:00):
I didn't know that, yeah, and you know, I didn't
know it until someone asked me a similar question. A
number of years ago, so it actually is part of
Canadian law. So it's not only for driver's license, but
it's also for passports. It's also for being in the RCMP.
It's also for being allowed to go into the legion,
because if I went to the Legion today my hat,
I don't have to take it off. But this has
this is part of Canadian law, and I think I'm

(32:23):
right on the dates it says all is the nineteen eighties.
The initial court challenge. Then mulroney did indeed, I'm end
the Constitution to try to rights and freedoms for this,
and it was all held by the Supreme Court sometime
in the nineties as well.

Speaker 7 (32:36):
Okay, yeah, I don't know if it's right. Well I
was not right in my opinion, but I guess it's
just my opinion. Everybody get opinion.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Absolutely, I understand where you're coming from, and you know,
just to make drive that point home, that's actually following
Canadian law, whether or not people disagree with it or
agree with it. That is not a you know, a
cultural decision that's been made. And people who just shrugged
their shoulders and said, okay, it's actually been all the
way to the Supreme Court. Okay, yeah, okay.

Speaker 7 (33:02):
Interesting, yeah, okay, thanks a lot, Patty, appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
I appreciate your time.

Speaker 8 (33:07):
You have a great morning.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
You two pell bye bye. Yeah. And you know what,
I really didn't know what that was all about until
I'm gonna say it's as much as a decade or
so ago someone asked me that very very similar question.
I'm not sure if it was about the farment motor
vehicles and driver's license photo, but yeah, and you'll hear that.
And there is a distinct difference. It's about whether or
not people are going to subscribe or follow our laws,

(33:30):
and in this case is actually our law. And curiously,
and you talk about the difference in multiculturalism and religious
freedoms and stuff. You know, whether it's a liberal leader
or a conservative leader. But mulrooney, I guess PC Prime
Minister Brian mulroney, he was actually one to open up
the Charter and made this particular intervention here and this

(33:54):
I don't know if it was nineteen ninety five or
ninety six or ninety seven, but this went all the
way to the Supreme Court and they upheld the government's
decision at that time and it's all about accommodation in
the public service. Will you let me take this one
or try to get a break. All right, let's take this.
I just go to line number one. Charlie around the air.

Speaker 9 (34:13):
Oh, good morning, Patty, Morning to you, Merry Christmas, to you.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Merry Christmas, Charlie, Patty.

Speaker 9 (34:20):
Just a couple of things there. I wasn't prepared to
go on quite yet. You remember George Carlin, the not
George Carlin, the the the comedian. Yep, okay, you said
about drivers. Have you ever noticed that when drivers are

(34:44):
slower than us, we call them idiots, and when they
drive faster than us, we call the maniacs. I thought
about that the other day when you were talking about
those driving lanes. But anyway, I thought, I would you
agree to us that that's pretty accurate.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah? Well, I think there's a lot of George Carlin
quotes that are pretty accurate. Some of them aren't actually
fit for public radio waves. Air waves, but.

Speaker 9 (35:07):
Yeah, yeah, Patty, that doctor who raked in four point
six million. I don't know if you've had main discussions.
I haven't heard you this week. Have you had any discussion
on that?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
No, but I mentioned it this morning.

Speaker 9 (35:25):
Okay, I didn't hear you. Again, We've got a new
TV system and it's not as good for recording and
listening anyway. I just wondered, how does somebody rack up
four point six million without after a million somebody taking note?
I mean, we're talking about a ball player sellaries here.

(35:45):
What gives that that can go on that long and
we probably won't recover the money? Do you think that's
a rather strange thing?

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Well? Yes, but you know, I think we're all just
grasping that straws at this moment of time because we
don't even know why he's been suspended. Is it about
the buildings or is it about something else? Because he's
only in the business in this province for two years.
His first year he built seven hundred and twenty thousand dollars,
which then were to four point nine million dollars in
his second year, and the second highest billion doctor in

(36:16):
the province built two point five millions, so he's about
double anybody else in the province. Now, I know ophthalmology
is pretty lucrative business to be in, but I'd really
like to know what's behind this, to be honest.

Speaker 9 (36:26):
Yeah, it's pretty strange. You would think with all the
government employees and the services has plenty of both provincial
and federal, you think there'd be a watchdog and some
of this would you not?

Speaker 2 (36:41):
Well, yes, I guess it's the short answer. But you know,
maybe there's a left hand right hand conversation going here
because the college brings forth the suspension, so that means
someone had to complain or file a formal complaint at
the college and the buildings go to MCP. So unless
there's some sort of direct connection and communication, you know,

(37:02):
monthly or what have you, between both entities, then it's
probably an after the fact when someone finally catches on
that there might be something. And I don't know if
there's an impropriety regarding the billing, because it could be
something else medically speaking, that has resulted in this suspension.
So I really don't know, but I suppose there's probably
that disconnect plays a role. If we're talking about simply
billing concerns.

Speaker 9 (37:22):
Well, if you can earn I don't know lucrative optimology is,
but if you can earn four point six million, there
should be a lot of new Foundlanders trying to get
in there, right Who needs to be a ballplayer anyway,
I just think the old thing is thinks to high
Ovan Patty. The second question I got the MoU the

(37:42):
first committee, the ones the Liberals formed. They are they
still meeting and they supposed to give a report anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yes, but it's a really good question because there's a
couple of things we don't really know. Is our negotiations
continuing and if so, why you know? And what role
does that play in this independent review? And what's the
questions being asked? I mean, so there's a lot to
fully understand, which is why I think it's a really

(38:10):
good idea for the general public to see the House
of Assembly reopened so we can get some matches on
that front. Because if we're just playing going down the
path as prescribed by Premier Wakem, then that does beg
some pretty interesting questions about what's actually happening today. Have
we changed the mandate for the current independent panel? Have
they stalled negotiations pending this review?

Speaker 9 (38:30):
Like I don't know, because it seems that whatever report
that they should continue at and the report would come
out eventually. And then if Premier Wakem is going to
move by the way, I think you should be moving
a little more quickly getting that panel together, and it
would be interesting that we would be able to see

(38:53):
both reports together, you know, before let's say, even before March,
so the public could get a really good look at this.
But anyway, well, I think that first committee should complete
its work. I hope they're still meeting.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
I guess they are. And how that valuable that might
be given the different direction that the current government is taking.
It's for anyone to guess. But so we're going to
get some sort of fiscal up date next week from
the Finance minister. Premier waken I said that they're going
to finalize in terms of reference by Christmas and a
point a three person panel, which is exactly what the

(39:29):
Liberals did but wasn't good enough. Then. I don't know
what change is now, maybe the mandate of the review panel,
Like I really don't know, there's more, there's more answers.
Pardon me, there's more questions and answers available at this moment.

Speaker 9 (39:41):
Well, let's hope the mandate changes. I wouldn't worry too
much about getting international people. I would rather see local
people with expertise, but it definitely changing mandate. Patty, were
you going to comment further?

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Yeah, I was going to say a or mister Wilson,
the fellow who resigned, is the mandate for the current
panel was just so narrow. It was very highly constrained
to just what was in the MoU. But you know,
as opposed to some risk assessment and potential changes into
the future, whether it be East By Synergy Corridor, whether
be federal government and intervention or involvement with transmission in

(40:20):
the province of Quebec, or the role of federal government
might play in willing power to the northeastern United States.
So there's a lot that is not in the MoU
that needs to be considered.

Speaker 9 (40:30):
Yes, last thing I want to the main topic I
want to talk about, I guess is I'll start with
a little anecdote. There was a guy out one night
looking for his keys in the bushes outside of his
house a street light there right Anyways, neighbor Kelly came
along and ask what are you looking for, George, and

(40:53):
George said, I'm looking for my keys, And he said, oh,
you lost your keys around here, and no, I lost
my keys on the other side of the garden over there.
But he said, well, what are you looking here for
them for? He said, because it's lighter, and the model
of that story I think would be I'll apply it

(41:14):
to what we've done about climate change. You remember Kyoto
was nineteen ninety seven, right they met, and they looked
at a goal of five point two percent below nineteen
ninety levels, and that was supposed to take place. The
commitment was between two thousand and eight and twenty twelve.

(41:38):
Now if you look at that, you know, of course
it didn't happen. And we've had I don't know how
many meetings we've had since that. The last one, I
guess was the Paris. So I would say I'll give
an example of why it's not working, not just because
the governments won't take the necessary steps, because people don't

(41:59):
want it. As individuals, we were told that we should
help things by the three hours, recycle, reduce and reuse. Well,
we take the easy route. We do pretty good at
recycling probably across the globe, and recycling is the least

(42:23):
of those three. I would say, probably what we're looking
at between five and ten percent if it was done properly.
YEA reduces the key, reduces the key, and reuse reduce especially.
But if you look at our society's and governments. The
idea is growth all the time, right, It's it's it's

(42:46):
it's been that way since god knows when, back back
in the eighteen ondreds. We haven't really changed that approach.
It's too hard to include myself here. We, as you said,
we want what we want when we want. We want
bigger houses, we want bigger cars, we want more of
this and more of that, and all these things people

(43:08):
relate burning fossil fuels. Fossil fuels is only one part
of the of the equation. When you're building bigger houses,
you're using more concrete, you're using more trees, you're using
more of everything. And it's the same with anything bigger. Right,
So it's I'm sorry, go.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
Ahead, No, I was just gonna say, I'm way natee
for the break, so I've got to get going. Final
thoughts to.

Speaker 9 (43:32):
You, Well, I don't see much. I don't know. Pollyanna
is one side, and I guess Debbie Downer is the other.
But from what I've seen, Patty, of what we've been
doing with all these meetings, these governmental meetings and so on,
and one individuals want on what they do. Do you
really see any hope that we're going to that we're

(43:53):
going to really reduce greenhouse gases before everything goes a hell.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Probably not. And that's say the affairs very quickly going.
I do have to go. You know when the Pakioto
Protocol was.

Speaker 9 (44:04):
Signed nineteen ninety seven, December.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
The eleventh, nineteen ninety seven, this date and whoa.

Speaker 9 (44:13):
Okay, yeah, thanks Patty, All right, Charlie, take care, okay,
my bye Merrie Christmas.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
By the way, we're very same too, Charlie, thank you,
bye bye bye. Let's get a break in took away.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
This is open line now the VOCM big Land FM
Radio network.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go line number two. Ramona,
you're on the air.

Speaker 10 (44:33):
Good morning, Patty.

Speaker 11 (44:34):
How are you doing.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I'm okay. How about you?

Speaker 10 (44:36):
I'm okay too, Oh dear. I'm just so worried about
all the hate that's out there. After hearing that message
that you received, It's really really troublesome.

Speaker 8 (44:50):
You know.

Speaker 10 (44:51):
I wonder why those people are so hateful, Why what
happened to them in their life to be so hateful.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
I don't know, but there's a lot of it going
around there, really is. You know, people are angry for
a variety of reasons. And there's lots of pressures on
people's pocket books and other political policy decisions that people
get quite up in arms with. But and that's one thing,
But when there's just a difference of opinion, like I
have no authority to do anything in this world. I

(45:21):
don't write policy. I'm not a government official. So just
disagree with me, which is fine. I don't really care
if people disagree with me, especially if they're willing to
entertain a conversation about why they disagree. But just the
automatic go to tell me how much you hate me,
which is fine, right as long as there's a few
people around that love me inside my family, I can
live with the hate. But wishing me dead. I just

(45:42):
thought that was a little bit much, and I couldn't
believe what I was reading.

Speaker 10 (45:46):
That's actually over the top. I mean, it's so why
is that person get so much hate in their heart?
You know, I always question that it's something had to
I mean, we're all everyone is under stressed. I know
everyone deals with it differently too, but you know, to

(46:08):
hate that much, it's really troublesome. I you know, I
knew someone who was very hateful, And I ask them
one time, why are you so angry all the time,
and he said, it's none of your business, you know,
it's it's something underlining it and they need help. They

(46:33):
needed to get to the core. We need our society
needs a lot of help.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Yeah, I as a general term, yeah, absolutely right. Look,
and I can't speak to why one person or another
is angry or hateful or whatever the whatever it is,
but you know, it also breeds hate and anger breeds anger,
and somehow they find themselves congregating, whether be on social
media or otherwise, and it just must be exhausting. Like

(47:00):
there's the emotion that is the most hiring, is hate
and anger, you know. So, I mean, I can't speak
for them, and two each their own, but you can
send me whatever note you like, if you want to
tell me how much you dislike me, which is absolutely fine,
but I you know, I do think it's fair to
say that wishing me dead is a little bit much.

Speaker 11 (47:16):
Yeah, yeah, it's a bit over the tap.

Speaker 10 (47:18):
That's really trouble And you do so much for people
and for the world.

Speaker 11 (47:22):
Actually, yeah, it's troublesome anyway. Anyway, we can hope for
the best and I think, you know, we should be
building more rehabilitation centers instead of more jails.

Speaker 10 (47:37):
There's a lot of people out there needs help.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Yeah, that's that's a fact. I really appreciate the time, Mona,
thanks for calling this morning.

Speaker 11 (47:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (47:45):
I like to wish everyone that merry Christmas and also happy.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
The very same too, Merry Christmas.

Speaker 10 (47:51):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
All right, someone's asked me to say what EOI stands for.
That acronym. It's an expression of rest. Let's take a
break for the news. Don't go ahead is open.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Line on the VOCM Bigland FM Radio network.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Welcome back to the program. Let's begin this hour online
number one. Good morning Bailey, you're on the air, Hi, Patty.

Speaker 12 (48:15):
I'm calling in to discuss this Mount Pearl twenty twenty
six budget and it's claimed that it really has a
focus on safety. I'd like to walk through a little
bit of the timeline just to refresh your memory and
the listeners. But back in December twenty twenty four, the
community came together to ask the munisul and provincial governments,

(48:36):
RNC and other stakeholders to do something about the seeing
safety problem in Mount Pearl. Following that we were promised
a community safety plan and some actions, and that came
from Minster Davis, Mary Aker, R and c. I think
they spent the bulk of twenty twenty five forming a committee,
hiring a company, doing some public consultations, and then as

(48:59):
a Mount Pearl municipal elections were kicking off, we heard
from Mayor Acre that a draft community safety plan had
been received by council. But now here we are in
December twenty twenty five and there's been no publicly released
community safety plan. And this budget that is saying that
it is safety driven, has allocated two hundred thousand for

(49:21):
community safety, but we don't know where that money's going,
what is the plan, how will that be spent. I
really like for council to release this community safety plan
and let us know where we're going with this.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
I'd like to know, you know, what exactly the plan is.
I really do not know. All I saw was the
news item that talked about so much money for this,
so much money for that. But it's an excellent question
as to exactly how they're going to spend the money
and how many levers does the municipality even have. In
the big world of public safety.

Speaker 13 (49:54):
I think there's a few.

Speaker 12 (49:55):
I think that we could invest in public lighting, certainly
for our trailways. Maybe we come up with a plan
for public spaces. So when that's looking at the private sector,
the minimum standards for businesses wanting to operate in our
public spaces. Maybe we look at some surveillance in public spaces.

(50:17):
I mean, there's an incident at Saint David's Park earlier
in the fall. You know, maybe if we'd had a
camera in that area, this would have been dealt with.
There's certainly things we can do, and I think it's
really easy for municipal council or others to say, well,
is a bigger problem than us, because it certainly is.
But it takes action at all.

Speaker 8 (50:38):
Levels it does.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
I mean, I think you're absolutely That's why I asked
the questions because I know you had some ideas. Public lighting.
Is that as an excellent idea, no doubt about that.
And cameras. I'm always torn on the camera issue as
a deterrent to crime, because criminals are not even deterred
by the thoughts of possibly going to prison, and cameras
will be able to capture images and maybe we use

(51:00):
as evidence when they go to court. But that's only
after the crime has been committed. So I get the concept.
I just wonder does it actually play a role as
a deterrent And I guess that's an individual question for
individual criminals.

Speaker 12 (51:12):
Yeah, and I'm not sure that it deterres that. I
can speak to personal experience that it certainly helps in
catching people that are involved. And so you know, my
husband was attacked last year and there was no public
cameras at the public space where he was attacked, but
it came down to residents on that street submitting their

(51:34):
personal footage so that we could get these individuals.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yeah, it's absolutely helpful in the world of catching criminals.
And I do know when we talk about public safety,
it's a prevention issue, it's a evidentiary issue, as a
prosecution issue, it's an incarceration issue. So it's everything from
top to bottom. So I like your idea and I
really appreciate your overall question of Okay, if there's that
amount of money for X, Y, and Z, exactly what

(52:00):
is the plan and how are we going to spend money?

Speaker 12 (52:02):
Suck hoping you can get to the bottom of it.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
I'll starting to give a shot.

Speaker 12 (52:07):
All right, Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (52:08):
Patty, appreciate your time, thanks for calling. Yeah, okay, bye bye.
Let's sake, let's go to line number two. Jason around the.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
Air well, Patty, hid, I heard you saying something about
Danny Williams, about the nickel for nickel or whatever it was.
So I decided to do my own little invest work
on to it, and I got it with thirty pounds
of pennies down there. Do you know how many pennies
it takes to make a pound?

Speaker 1 (52:35):
No?

Speaker 4 (52:36):
One hundred and eighty six.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Okay, interesting a dollar dollar eighty six, right, got it?

Speaker 4 (52:42):
Okay, you know how many nickels it takes to make
a pound? No, one hundred and two. That's five dollars
and ten cents. So I phoned Nukele Metals and I
asked him how much was it for a pound of copper?
They said four dollars and forty cents a pound form
a dollar eighty six to four to forty pounds. So

(53:03):
I wonder if I brought up fifty pounds of nickels
would be worth more to me to have it destroyed?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
I'm not sure, well what that question? Now? I'm just
trying to follow along.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
Well, right now, depending is more than the nickel.

Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, but the current nickels in circulation aren't pure nickel
though either No, they're not, they're not.

Speaker 3 (53:28):
No.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
So given that fact, I wouldn't know how to answer
the question. And I don't think I was the one
who mentioned Danny Williams in the nickel conversation. I believe
the caller did, because when the initial plan at Vois's
Bay was reached under the Liberal government at the time,
I'm going to used two thousand and one, two thousand
and two as the date, Danny Williams was vehemently opposed
to it. Then there was a bunch of delays and

(53:52):
further negotiations and then some I guess wrangling with Valet
to see the two billion dollar splent at what is
it a high druve metallurgical plant in Long Harbor, which
was two thousand and eight. I'm going to guess, so
some additional benefits for Valet in consideration for building the
plant at Long Harbor. And I think the ultimate point
I was making is, you know, when the construction was ongoing,

(54:15):
all the nickel that got shipped to Subbury, Ontario or
Thompson Manatoe, we were told that every spoonful would come back.
My question is whether or not that's happened.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
I don't think so, I gotta don't know. I got
one more question, Betty, sure, just in case I missed something.
I have to have a coffee in the morning on
my mission something. So you're from nine toll twelve in
the day, how come I miss a half hour in
the evening? You guys want to go on from nine
till eleven thirty.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Yeah, I really don't know, So the producers could probably
be the ones to answer that question. I don't know
what gets hauled out. Maybe some of the breaks are
short or something. I really don't know. I'll find out though.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
Thank you. Yeah, no problem, all, okay, I'm great, there.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
You Tooel all the best, bye bye.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah. I mean, I don't know I can get an
answer to that question because I'm not sure how that
process works. I don't I don't have anything to do
with that necessarily, But Chad, that's the issue regarding the
whole Nickel conversation, and it would be nice to know
exactly what's going on. So there was you know, even
in the timeframe approaching the completion of construction, there was

(55:21):
a big increase and then there was a crash in
the price of that particular commodity, So I think you know,
so we're talking about in the era of what this
referred to, generally speaking as a global recession, and there
was lots of commodities took an absolute pummeling at that
moment in time. So I don't know where we are
now about the price of a metric ton of nickel.

(55:42):
I don't know, but I would like to know if
all the nickel that got shipped out eventually got shipped back,
because that was part of the arrangement, part of the agreement.
How would even on the telephone out there, Greg, how
are you doing out there? Okay, let's get a break in.
Don't go away.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
This is open Line on the VOCM big Land FM
radio network, and.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Welcome back to the show. As per an emailer, we're
talking about how much nickel is an actual five cent
piece only two percent nicol these days. I didn't know
was that low. Let's keep going that number one. Noreene,
you're on the air.

Speaker 14 (56:12):
Yes, good morning, and I'm going to be talking about
the government. I know, I know, government people and departments
are really busy and stuff and there's a new government formed.
But I've been phoning in to Old Age Security since November,
before my birthday for to let them know that I

(56:32):
would be turning sixty five and the seventeenth. Now I've
been phoning constantly every other week to see how far
it's going to hit. I phoned this morning. The person
I was talking to this morning told me I was
not going to get no money this month, and we

(56:52):
got to pay rent, we got bills to pay, I
got pills to buy, right I'm out of pills now
for one thing. And it's like it seems like they
don't care about the people.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
So why is it that you don't qualify for because
I think the the CVP I believe the paymentate this
month is the twenty second U turn sixty five and
the seventeen, So why don't.

Speaker 14 (57:15):
You get it che SID it's not pricessed yet.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Okay, So it's a processing.

Speaker 14 (57:20):
Issue, okay, right, Because like why I found them so
early is because mine was supposed to be automatically switched
over because where I was already receiving my spouse allowance
and everything right now, I was paying one hundred percent
for all my drugs. Anyway, because we were making twenty
seven dollars too much. I was talking to you about

(57:40):
that before, okay, right, and that I never did get
that straightened. That my MJ at the time didn't do
nothing for me. I ended up doing everything myself and
I still couldn't get nothing fixed. I ended up getting
more prescriptions and I still couldn't get no percent. It's
taken out because I was still getting too much. Like

(58:04):
I said, why is it that some people have getting
the same amount of money, can get so much after
pills and the other person can't. I said, there's something
around mindsummer in the government. Now, me and my husband
is here, were living in a senior citizen's cottage. We
got rent to pay, we got auto bills to pay.

(58:26):
Besides that, because you know yourself, you got your light
bill and everything else. Why don't they try to have
it all rearrange and everything for when you turn sixty
five instead of waiting until you turn sixty five. Then
it can take up the tree months after you turn

(58:46):
sixty five before you'll get any money or anything.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Yeah, So it's an important public service announcement here. So
you the recommendation because for some reason it's not automatic
that when you turn sixty five to get yours EPP,
which I don't know why that would be. The government
knows when your birthday is, so the recommendation for people
is six months prior to turning sixty five you should
start the process to ensure that you get it as

(59:10):
soon as possible. For some people it's only thirty days
after they turn sixty five they actually get their first check.
But you know, it's it's sort of bizarre to me
that they're even making people at the age of sixty
four and six months have to apply for CPP, which
the government knows you're turning sixty five, So.

Speaker 14 (59:27):
Well, it's not the CPP.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
Oh, I'm thought we're talking to CpG.

Speaker 14 (59:30):
I've I was getting CPP out along with my spouse amounts.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Okay, so what check are you applying for?

Speaker 14 (59:38):
None of them?

Speaker 2 (59:38):
So okay, So what are you trying to get? All
they security?

Speaker 14 (59:42):
I'm trying to get a straighten up with my old
age and everything because the two I had, the tube
was straightened up. I was getting my Candida pension when
I turned sixty. Yeah, okay, and I start and I
start getting my well, we have a spouse amounts. But
when you if you got to check it, said old age.
I was getting the two since I turned sixty got

(01:00:04):
it right, And I did get it that year in December.
But now I turned sixty five, all that was supposed
emmatically transfer over to old age because I was already
told by one person that's working in there, because I've
been living in Canada my whole life. And he asked
me if I was living in Canada for forty years.

(01:00:26):
I said, My son said I never moved out of Canada.
I said I was at a New Fland once and
that was it. But I said I was on the
mainland then. So they told me that it's supposed to
automatically switch over and I'd get my check on the
twenty second of December. I thought this morning. This lady
tells me I'm not getting in the December because it's

(01:00:47):
not processed.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Got it?

Speaker 14 (01:00:51):
Now, do you understand where I'm coming from?

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
I understand where you're coming from.

Speaker 14 (01:00:54):
Right, So more would one person tell me I is
getting it and another person tell me I'm not?

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Well? Another very good question. I mean, the amount of
incorrect information being shared by different departments of government is
a real huge problem. CRA apparently is really bad out
of these days. And then for people working in the
same departments giving two different answers to the same question
is mind boggling.

Speaker 14 (01:01:20):
Yeah, and even demand that does our tax has told
me that I should automat me switch over and I
would get my check yep, right, So you know, like
the one hand don't know what the other one is
doing in there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
Unfortunately not.

Speaker 14 (01:01:36):
And for to get help from your MHA and new
from it, it's like trying to get a tree in
your house by yourself if he's too big. You know
what I'm saying, because I tried to get in to
help me with the other situation and I found all
that out myself.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Yeah, it shouldn't be this hard.

Speaker 14 (01:01:55):
No, it shouldn't. And now we get through your line
and my husband's money that's come in for our stuff
and he hain't got half enough coming in fort.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Yeah. I mean, sometimes there's something that I can attempt
to do to try to make things easier or better.
But in this case, when it's simply a dragging of
feet to get the application processed, I'm not sorry what
to tell you other than to highlight your concern and
knowing full well that government needs to be more efficient
with this kind of stuff. I mean, government efficiency is
poor at the very best of times, so when we're

(01:02:27):
talking about money, then they really do need to be
more attentive. So I know you, I know you're concerned.
I completely understand it.

Speaker 14 (01:02:34):
Like I literally broke down on the phone talking to
her this morning.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
No, no, I'm sorry to hear at Noreen.

Speaker 14 (01:02:43):
But it wouldn't have been so bad if we could
have stayed in our own home. But we couldn't even
stay there because he had a pacemaker and he can't
do no struggling or nothing. He couldn't use this schedule.
He can't sound wood because we used to burn wood
and it was two for from the main road like
what we drive on to get up to our house

(01:03:04):
with our grocers that in the winter, because we couldn't
get up there in the car. So we had to
move out of our own home into a place where
we had to pay for rent, just because we couldn't
do nothing to stay there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Again, I'm really sorry to hear that.

Speaker 14 (01:03:25):
Well, thank you very much, but I thought there might
be a way because like I'm even trying to get
all to the MP to see if there's anything he
can do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Well, it's certainly the next step is one of the constituency.
Constituency assistance for a member of problems. Absolutely, that's what
they're there for to do work on the half Canadians.

Speaker 14 (01:03:45):
And that means you yeah, yeah, well I think it's
only you know, but I've been added ever since November,
before my birthday and after my birthday, I've been added.
So now I got to pay for my own pills
that I got to get because if I don't get them,
I am and pills from my depression and stuff and

(01:04:08):
un medical.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
It's a terrible set of circumstances. Look, if you make
any headway with the whoever you get to speak without
an MP's office, let me know, will you, Noraene, Yes,
I will. I wish your good luck to stay.

Speaker 14 (01:04:19):
In touch and thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
You're welcome.

Speaker 15 (01:04:22):
Bye bye, okay bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
Yeah man. And just fair warning for folks who are
you know, approaching sixty five and wanting to access your CPP,
you really need to start six months in advance, whether
it be with the paper form or the online application.
Let's go with line number two. Daryl. You're on the air.

Speaker 8 (01:04:40):
Good morning, Patty, how are you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Okay, how about you?

Speaker 8 (01:04:44):
Not too bad for an old guys. Good a beautiful deodor.
We have no snowfalling, which is nice for a change.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
Yeah, it made big swing and temperature, but I don't
know what it's like after novel. When I was coming
to work, it was pretty slippery.

Speaker 8 (01:04:56):
Yeah, I notice all that's starting to Milton now has
gone up to zero one and kind of hit plus nine,
which is nice. Fair enough, So I'm gonna stare your
pod a little bit this morning. I'm a I'm a townyan.
You know, my whole life. I grew up in Saint
John's and you turn on the news now when you
hear about all the crime that's going on, all their

(01:05:16):
armed robberies and the murders and the assaults, and of course
the latest one now is the two women. You know,
I mean almost beat today. And it comes down to
these people that are roam in our streets. And you
had a lady and a couple of weeks ago, says
she looks out her door. She looks out now is
like a zombie of publics. They're walking up and down
the streets down the center of town. Supposedly the government

(01:05:38):
puts them up in the house and I know that
for a fact, and they pay for him to be
in a house by themselves, which I don't think is
a good thing. I mean, these people are medicated and
their paranoids gets her friendies and they're everything else. When
I was growing up as a kid in Saint John's
they were locked up. Now our government decided that that's
not a good thing. Someone decided and here we are now.
You turn on the news. A couple of nights ago,
one of them forgot to take their medication and we

(01:06:00):
got two people fighting for their lives.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Again.

Speaker 8 (01:06:02):
There's a big red building in on water for Bridge Road.
Everybody's familiar with us, that's vacant. Well, why don't the
government look at that as an institution again and put
them in there where they're medicated, make sure they takes
their medications and they're not out on the street. You
get on Water Street yourself, I don't know if you've
been down there. Every second person walks up to you
as looking for five bucks. And I don't know about you,

(01:06:24):
but I think that's the embarrassing. During the summer, when
we got all these cruise ships coming and people come
from all over the country, and they're steady stay. They're
lying in the streets and someone needs to look at
the things that were done back then, and maybe somebody's
decided that's not working, so put them in a house.
And I know for a fact they pay twenty five
hundred dollars a month of your taxpayer dollars. They got

(01:06:46):
their cigarettes, they got their cell phones, and they're out
there bumming money for their drugs.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
They what do you mean whosy you say they are getting,
you know, being put up in the house and given
this amount of money, And I just wondering who day
is you were referred to. And number one, we can't
just lock people up because they haven't metal illness.

Speaker 8 (01:07:05):
Well no, I agree you can't. Lot of people have,
they have mends. But if they're out on the street
and they're danger to other people and themselves not taking
their medication, and there's a lot of them out. They
were locked up years ago, in the sixties and seventies,
I mean they were, they were I don't know if
you know the institution, there was one here in Saint
John's and they were they were looked after, they were
given their medication and made sure they took their medication, right,

(01:07:25):
But now, I mean this one here, the family was
under bleeding hert you know, Oh, he didn't take his medication,
so that kids gives him the right to beat two people.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Almost of this nobody said that. No, I think nobody
said that.

Speaker 8 (01:07:37):
No, nobody said it. I'm saying, I mean, he's once again.
I mean back two years ago, we had a woman
down and landing place staffed police officer. You know, family
was understanding, didn't take a medication, like so we trusted
these people living alone to take their medication if they don't,
you know, I mean, I don't know how good your
memory is, but about twenty five years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:07:53):
Pretty good.

Speaker 8 (01:07:53):
A fella killed a bunch of people on or killed
a guy on a bus, you know, started eating them,
you know, for he never took his medication. As a society,
and there's a survey going around from the federal government
now asking people are you feel safe in your community?
And I'm sure ninety percent of the people are saying no,
because you got I mean, there's so much crime in
this city. And then you got that on top of it,

(01:08:14):
it's do you walk Water Street, petty?

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Yeah, of course, I live in the East End.

Speaker 8 (01:08:18):
Of down and you walk Water Street. Do you see
any difference now than twenty five.

Speaker 6 (01:08:23):
Thirty years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Yes, yes, and we do.

Speaker 8 (01:08:27):
It's the homelessess, like they're constant, right. And I was
told by a Salvation Army officer that a lot of
them are coming in from other provinces now. People got
bleeding hearts, they give them money. Salvation Army officer told
me that they got their meals to go up to
the gathering place, they got place to stay. But they're
coming up to you asking you for money for this,
that and the other thing. And we all know, I mean,
we're not stupid that a lot of us going into

(01:08:49):
in drugs, whatever outcome, people.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
Can choose not to give. I mean, that's a personal
choice people make like I would only like, for instance,
we see people who are panhandling around, for instance, where
I grocery shop, and I won't give them any money,
but I'll buy him a sandwich, you know. So that's
the kind of approach I take personally. But the big
topic that you're talking about, this thirty two year old
man who's been charged with very serious crimes and there's

(01:09:13):
one woman in critical condition. I think that's a bit
more complicated than you're making it though, Daryld. To be
honest with you, well, I'm Gonney.

Speaker 8 (01:09:19):
I'm gonna go by what I read and what I
heard right, And then the family was on there. I
mean saying that, you know, he's probably didn't take his medication.
So but what I from what I've seen around Patty
and I've been down around downtown there, they're down there
and they're trusted to take their medication. I mean there's
a guy down there in front of Marie. He's fighting
with himself all the time. Sometimes to cross the street
over by the sub shop, there's another guy in there

(01:09:41):
stood up on the street. They're going into where the
Walmart is too on Kelsey Drive. I mean, he's fighting
with himself all the time. So it's only for another
one dear by the village. It's only for them to
just step off the curb. And if you're driving down there,
I mean you're gonna tag him. The guy by the
theavel or at Walmart, he's drinking beer all day long.
Cops drive by it all the time. They don't stop

(01:10:01):
and tell him stop drinking beer. And if you went
out by your door drinking the beer, did give you
a fine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
So the fellow who's in the media and there at
Kelsey Drive, he's actually fairly calm and quiet. I've interacted
with him in the past, just because I mean I've worked.
I can see that intersection from the parking lot where
I work. Just back to the thirty two year old
story though for a second, because no one says that,
you know, because he didn't take his pills, were giving

(01:10:27):
him a free pass, because I don't think anyone's saying that,
And if the family refers to him as a victim,
what I will say, and what I said off the
top of the show, is this is a distinct failure
of the system. And why do I think that is?
Because there was a newly created community treatment order some
many years back, and so a psychiatrist has given a
designation to that individual to provide mandatory and involuntary care.

(01:10:48):
If a person has a severe mental illness, is that
at risk of hurting themselves or others? The problem here
Darryl is that he was released from this designation and
the family didn't know anything about it. So as opposed
to the err and c Mobile mental health crisis team
they knocked on his door. He said I don't want
to talk to you. So consequently, they don't have the
authority to go in and do anything with or for

(01:11:10):
this fellow who's been charged. His name is Mitchell Rose.
But had he been under the community treatment order and
was still under it, this probably wouldn't have happened because
the authorities can indeed involuntarily take him and medicate him.
So that's the biggest problem here is nobody knew except
for Mitchell, who obviously is in no sound state of mind,
in some sort of state of psychosis. What do you

(01:11:31):
think that this is going to happen? Bad decisions and
including these very serious crimes he's been charged for, charged with,
but the system just dropped them, dropped the designation. That's
the biggest part of the story that braces Merit.

Speaker 8 (01:11:43):
And Patty deeralized the problem. You're absolutely right, deeralized the
problem the system. The system failed them because no one
was notified. So once again, I mean, this is our
system is broken and it needs to be fixed. So
maybe they're fine to be by themselves if they're in
this program. Once they get off this program and don't
take the medication. When they don't take their medication is

(01:12:04):
when they're a problem. Yeah, I don't know if you've
ever taken medication and figure outme good now I don't
need to take it anymore. We're all like that. I mean, like, oh,
I don't need to take that that penicelan because my
flu has gone away, and of course you stopped taking
it comes back when they're in that program. Yeah, they're
being there, being checked, there being everything is, you know,
all the boxes are ticked. But like you said, they
let them out, nobody notifies so there and this probably

(01:12:25):
would never have happened had he been kept in the system.
And that's that's a problem with a lot of stuff
we got in our society. It's just people just kind
of throwing their hands in the air, like, don't nobody
follows up anymore? Right, And that's just the way things are,
and that's the changing times. And I guess we just
have all to deal with and and move on with life, right, But.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
I think the focus needs to be on the system.
This fellow, this man, I mean, had he remained under
a community treatment order, this very likely would not have happened.

Speaker 8 (01:12:55):
Very likely, I totally, I totally agree, probably would never
have happened. He was he was a normal life.

Speaker 16 (01:13:00):
He wasn't, you know.

Speaker 8 (01:13:01):
But once they stop taking their medication, I mean, I
don't know, if you're familiar with it, you probably are.
I mean they got voices in their head tell them
to do stuff, and I mean that's I'm not I
don't take medication for anything. I'm lucky, one of those
lucky people. But I've been around those people and they
hear voices in their hit and it tells them to
do stuff. I've seen them flight with themselves. I've talked
to them, probably the same as yourself. But once they
stop taking that medication and then things change, right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
I think that's Unfortunately, there's a lot of misunderstanding about
schizophrenica out there as well. There really truly is for
some people simply that diagnosis means that that person is
a dangerous individual, when that doesn't have to be the case.
And interestingly, there's someone who's coming on. I think they
wanted to come on. They were used to sit on
the bord of the Schizophrenic Association, So we'll have that conversation.

(01:13:42):
But the way we talk about mental illness is sometimes
gets a little bit out of hand. For me, like
just locking someone up because they have a mental illness.
Just doesn't even make any sense. It doesn't treat their illness.
It doesn't make anybody safer. So it's how we treat
and the continuity of care, and for other family members
are loved ones to know what's going on with you
when you do have the potential to make bad decisions.

(01:14:04):
That's what happened here. So this community treatment order should
have never ever been lifted, by the look of it
and by the results of the actions he took in
this apartment building, Darrel, I got to get to the break,
but I appreciate making time.

Speaker 4 (01:14:17):
Thanks Betty, you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
Too, Bye bye? All right, just get that breaking took away.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
This is Open Line on the VOCM Bigland FM radio network.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go on number one
mic here on the air.

Speaker 13 (01:14:29):
Hey Patty, how are you doing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
I'm doing okay? Thank you? How about you?

Speaker 7 (01:14:33):
Oh?

Speaker 15 (01:14:34):
Pretty good bye. I I felt compelled to call today
because there's a public figure in Newfoundland. For the record,
I live in Montreal now, but I am a Newfoulander
through and through, and his Facebook post kind of angered me,
right like his emotions toward the entire situation of this,
you know, situation we've had with mister Mitchell Rose, who

(01:14:56):
unfortunately suffers from some serious mental illness and has been
diagnosed with schizophrenia, and he put harm on three individuals,
and mister Shelley was, you know, adamant that the family
didn't try harder to get him help, and we know
that's really not the truth. And secondly, the blame game

(01:15:17):
is not going to help solve future incidents like this
from happening. And unfortunately, I have quite a background in
this because I had a child, have a child sorry,
who still lives with me, and they have schizophrenia. Thankfully,
they're in recovery and they've been three plus years doing well.
A once a month injection can can do wonders in

(01:15:39):
helping them.

Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
Turn their lives around.

Speaker 15 (01:15:41):
So that's the first and most important thing to get
someone who's suffering from schizophrenia is this injection. Is this
drug and is the help the problem? Patty is a
circle of care loss Like we won't allow someone who's
mentally unstable to take the stand in the court of
law because of the state. However, when it comes to

(01:16:02):
their mental health or their physical health, because they're over
the age of eighteen and nineteen twenty is great when
schizophrenia tends to develop, just like it did in mister Rose,
it did in my child at the exact same age.
We need to have a better circle of care laws,
meaning someone who's a family member needs to have the

(01:16:22):
ability to commit their child or their loved one because
they can't make the decision. As I said earlier, they
can't go on to stand and testify because they're not
mentally stable. Then why are they mentally stable enough to
decide sorry, I don't need help. So now they end
up on the street, they end up into substances because
that's really what they try to do to mask their illness.

(01:16:44):
Now you're compounding the issue with substance abuse and things
like that. So if the circle of care laws don't change,
we're going to continue to hear people like mister Shelley
blame in families and blaming the person who committed the act.
And listen, this person is going to face some serious
time in an institution. I don't know if you remember

(01:17:04):
a story many years ago, probably twelve thirteen years ago,
out in Western Canada, when a man on the bus
who suffered from schizophrenia thought the guy in front of
him was going to attack up kill him, so he
took matters into his own hands and cut his head off.
I don't mean to be too graphic, but that is
what happens. Yeah, and he spent seven years in a

(01:17:29):
mental hospital recovering. That's exactly what's going to happen to
mister Rose now. And let me say this first, please,
because I forgot to mention be my heart and my
sympathies go out to the family that have been hurt. Man.
I've been through this, Patty. I know. I've seen six
cops barreling in on my house to help someone. And
you know what, they're not well trade. They don't know

(01:17:50):
what they're doing either. There's too many people that don't
have the education, Patty. And I don't mean I don't
mean that in an ignorant way. I mean they they're
just it's not school. Unfortunately, I got schooled to the
school in the hard knocks, you know. But when my
child ended up with this illness, man, I wasn't gonna
let my child freeze on the street. I wasn't gonna

(01:18:11):
let them disappear just because they had an illness. Be
no different than leaving someone with a broken legout on
the street, like, come on, we don't do that.

Speaker 13 (01:18:18):
We shouldn't do that.

Speaker 15 (01:18:19):
They need loved ones to care for them, and that
is what got my child through it. If someone wasn't
there for them, they probably particularly dead now. But now
they're leading a good life. So schizophrenia isn't the end
of the road. So people need to know that right now.
These people who've been harmed by that prison at schizophrenia,

(01:18:40):
they could have been anybody could have been you or me, Patty.
It just depends on who was there at that time
when they went through that massive psychotic episode. And I've
seen that happen and it's not pretty. And when your
child is an adult and they're strong and big and burly,
what are you gonna do? And you can't fight the
back because if you do that, you're only gonna compound
the situation and expedite problems because typically schizophrenia people want

(01:19:03):
to stay alone. They're afraid of people, they're delusional, they're paranoid,
so they isolate. So they're typically more of a harm
to themselves than the art of the general public.

Speaker 8 (01:19:13):
And that's a fact.

Speaker 15 (01:19:14):
Anybody doesn't believe me, just look it up. I really
don't have time to be ex citing those things. Unfortunately,
Patty schizophrenia doesn't involve one part of the brain, involves
all parts of the brain, the front olympic network. It
controls their emotional regulation, their impulse controls, and their ability
to link actions and consequences. Right when they have extreme

(01:19:35):
psychotic episodes, they don't have anywhereness. They don't have any
understandings of their actions. And you know, if I can't
be truthful with you. Before my child developed this, I
was coaching someone who was a psychiatrist and I'm not
going to names, but they know their stuff. And when
this person did what they did out in Western Canada.
Just digressing back to that story a little bit about

(01:19:56):
the man on the bus. I was pretty upset when
I heard was released.

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
After seven years.

Speaker 15 (01:20:01):
I thought, my god, someone's dead and all he got
was seven years. But it was that conversation that changed
my view. Thankfully, it changed my view because a few
years later, obviously it went through this Personally, I'm still
grappling with it because every month there's a reminder that
without disinjection, this could turn the other way again. And unfortunately,
only thirty five percent of people who have schizophrenia and

(01:20:22):
make it Patty in bad situations.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Yeah, of course, the big part of the story is,
of course that people were hurt and injured and one critical,
and that's terrible. But what led up to that should
be part of the conversation. This is not bleeding heart stuff.
This is an assessment of the actual reality on the ground.
If a psychiatrist thought he should be part of the

(01:20:47):
community treatment order protocols, then for people around him who
love him, mom and sister or whoever the case, we
be for them not to be told. And so consequently
to understand that now the risks have been heightened for
Mitch to be risk to himself or possibly to others.
So the fact that he was left to his own
accords with the complete inability, unmedicated to make good decisions.

(01:21:09):
This is a system failing, it is, and that's not
letting Mitchell Rose off the hook. That's making sure we
don't let the system off the hook.

Speaker 15 (01:21:17):
Correct, Correct, you're right, Patty, And we've got to be
able to distinguish that line. Right, there's two issues. There's
two issues here, right. Anyway, I just wanted to call
and talk a little bit about it, like that you know,
their decision making and the paranoia behind things, the delusions,
all of those things combined affect different parts of the brain,

(01:21:39):
like the angola and the hippocampus, right, you know, the
prefrontal cortex, right, which you know really affects decision making
and the understanding of the consequences that link the decision together.
I don't mean to sound too medical here, but unfortunately
I've had to learn all this stuff because I want
to know if something happens, what the symptoms are.

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
Right.

Speaker 8 (01:21:59):
But look, if.

Speaker 15 (01:22:00):
Anybody out there is wondering, please if you see your
child at eighteen, nineteen twenty starting to isolate. I didn't
catch the signs, but it was three weeks all alone
in the room, and all of a sudden a statement
about thinking their friends are hacking into their phone and stuff.
Oh goodness, gracious, Yeah, there's the paranoia start. There's the

(01:22:20):
paranoia stary. That's how it started. My child was wearing
a letter when he played on a hockey team. He
was popular in school, he was good look and he
had a girlfriend. He was had a job like he
was doing everything that every person at that age should
be doing. And lammo, So now all that friends network

(01:22:42):
like people don't realize how it affects the family as well.
There's a third dimension to this. You're telling me that
my mental health wasn't effective for me for those few years,
that I just could do nothing for my son in psychosis.
Think about that.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
Oh, listen, we've had these types of conversations.

Speaker 15 (01:22:58):
You're still trying to make a living and still trying
to keep a roof over your head, and you know,
like people don't realize there's there's so many dynamics that
go into it. We have a new mental health hospital
and which you know, I was very glad to see,
but we've got to connect the patients directly with the
associations like Shifts. A friend of the Newfoundland and the
Labrador needs to be in the basement of that hospital

(01:23:20):
and when a patient needs direct help, they need to
be able to get up an elevator, get to that
patient and help with them in that fashion too, because
the nurses and that are very busy doing what they
need to do inside there. So these extra supports, believe me,
will really really help. We need we need to start
being a lot more proactive. But like I said, we
need to get after government to change the circle of

(01:23:41):
care loss if the circle of care laws don't change.
If I can't have the legal right to know when
my child is hitting psychosis again and they're refusing to
take their medagine that sort of stuff. Come on Jesus,
that's a sign man, you know. And that's when I,
as the parent, have to have the legal rights to

(01:24:02):
have my child commit it. I know in five or
six weeks they're gonna come out of Ustle a different person.
My child was trapped inside the mental hospital during COVID.
I had to go down when they were starting to
recover and wave to them from outside and get a
texting I love you dad when I knew they were
starting to come around.

Speaker 2 (01:24:18):
It's extraordinary stuff.

Speaker 15 (01:24:20):
Turn around. They might hate you for several weeks, but
it will turn around.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Stick by them, Mike, I really appreciate the time. Thanks
for doing this.

Speaker 8 (01:24:27):
Yeah, take care of Moody you too.

Speaker 2 (01:24:28):
Bye bye. Oh let's take a break. Don't go away.

Speaker 1 (01:24:32):
This is open Line on the VOCM Bigland FM Radio Network.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
Welcome back to the program. Oh, I was just about
to click on Keith Online number two. We wanted to
discuss mental health. Look, it's a tricky conversation, and there's
no doubt about it. And like most other things, the
tricky ones, the emotional conversations, they're the ones that forever
in a day have been left off to the side
or left into the corner, and consequently they don't get entertained.

(01:24:57):
And what happens nothing good. Status Oh and I think
we can all agree status quo not the best thing.
Let's keep going here, let's go to lightning. Everyone. Good morning,
David gil you are on the air. Oh hi, Patty,
how's it going great today? Thank you? How about you good?

Speaker 16 (01:25:11):
I want to phone in and talk a little bit
about that Australia ban. I'm associate professor over at the
Faculty of Education and I think we've talked a couple
of times about similar things. But I heard you talk
about it this morning. I thought i'd phone in and maybe,
you know, share some thoughts and.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
I appreciate you too it David. I think the last
time we talked was about the MIT Media Lab report
about using chat ChiPT to write sat essays?

Speaker 8 (01:25:39):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Yes?

Speaker 16 (01:25:40):
I think so, something like that. Okay, I've phoned in
a few times. I think yeah, and I think we
phone maybe maybe I mentioned we mentioned well about this
time last year the province came out with a total
band on cell phones for certain age groups and I
can't remember if I talked about that or not, but
is interesting now that we're seeing, you know, we're going

(01:26:04):
from like school bands to age level bands and yeah,
so it's interesting, it's interesting and it kind of falls
in my wheelhouse here, but to see this trend. So yeah,
so last number of years, David.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
Just before you get your thoughts going here, because of
the time of the clock, which I'm generally unaware of,
do you have time to be put on hold for
the eleven o'clock news will come back? Make sure we
have a fullsome conversation.

Speaker 16 (01:26:32):
Oh yeah, whatever works for you.

Speaker 2 (01:26:33):
Okay. So, given the fact that we're just a minute shy,
let's just set the stage to remind the folks what
we're going to be talking about after the news. The
country of Australia the first country in the world, in
the modern world anyway, to ban social media application from
youth under the age of sixteen for the obvious, well
intentioned purposes of protecting youth, because there's been some really
detrimental and well understood impacts on youth, whether it be anxiety, depression,

(01:26:57):
the child lowering, sex, a sex torsion. So there's a
variety of things that happen in these you know, digital
evil corners. That that's the conversation for me is how
do we best protect youth, whether it be the role
the government plays, the role that parents play, the role
that the big tech companies play, which seemingly is impossible
to get to them because why subscribers and clicks our money.

(01:27:19):
So that's what myself and David Gailer are going to
talk about right after the newscast. So I'm gonna put
you on hold, David, okay, Yeah.

Speaker 16 (01:27:25):
No problem.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Well to make sure they'll be giving plenty of time
to talk about it, because it's way too important. Very
quick check in on the Twitter box before we get
to the newscast. We're VOSM up the line. You can
follow us there. Email address is open line at vocm
dot com. Plenty of interesting notes and just one more
reply all verbally is reference to qualifications for CPP and
all lad security and those types of things. Appreciate the
information that so many have sent along, whether it be

(01:27:48):
Sam or Jennifer or Pamela or Lloyd or Craig and
Judy appreciate that and let's get a break in for
the news. Let me come back. We're talking to social
media band in Australia. Don't go away.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
This is Hoping Line on the VOCM big Land FM
radio network.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go and rejoin doctor
David Gill online number one, Doctor Gill, you're on the air.

Speaker 16 (01:28:07):
Oh hi, how's it going?

Speaker 2 (01:28:08):
Best kind now? Thanks? Thanks for the patients. Where would
you like to start when we talked about the Australian
sixteen under ban on social media?

Speaker 16 (01:28:16):
Yeah, yeah, no worries about waiting. I know my place.
I'm not more important than the news listen, No, I
just wanted to just touch base with you. You mentioned
a lot of the things before we went to the
news about the reasons why, but sometimes sometimes the public
or people don't understand the research behind it, and there
were some interesting pieces of research kind of tied like

(01:28:40):
I was talking to before the break related to you know,
the school bands that we've been seeing and over the
last couple of years. You know, this is kind of
rippled through through through the world where we saw you know,
like the UK start started started to do bands in
school and then multiple states and then provinces and things
like that. There's a difference there, right, So those are

(01:29:03):
outright bands for certain ages they can't have the phones
for various reasons and things like that. But now it's interesting, right,
So now we're seeing these, you know, under sixteen bands,
and I think Denmark is looking at it, which means
you know, other people are going to be looking at this.
But this could be this can be a contentious issue

(01:29:26):
with the parents and children and other people as well.
But over the last number of years, I think the
research is pretty solid. And the Australian fact sheet and
things that the government put out, you know, there's that
they cited a really like it's it's a pretty pretty
substantial stand up study out of the UK talking about

(01:29:50):
developmental sensitivities and things like that. And in the research world, right,
there can be lots of studies. We see lots of studies,
but you know, the quality can be a bit iffy, right,
But this one seems pretty solid, and it's what's important.
This is a big study, right, eighty four thousand participants

(01:30:13):
for one part and then seventeen thousand for the long
longitudinal study and Basically, it's kind of it's reinforcing this
idea that at these ages, you know, you're eleven, ten, twelve,
you know, adolescent kind of ages that that social media
in particular not technology, right, and this is important, right,

(01:30:36):
So social media in particular is having an adverse effect.
Now they're not the only ones that report on this.
I don't know if you know this book or Jonathan
Hite is a psychologist or associate. I can't remember. I
better not say he is something. I think he's a
psychologist down in the States. He had a book out

(01:30:58):
last year called The Anxious Generation. A lot of the research,
you know, the papers aren't accessible to the general public,
but if people wanted to have, like a really good
analysis that was readable, his book dives in and analyzes,
analyzes and synthesizes this stuff. And I think the nuance

(01:31:21):
that people need to understand or well, I can't tell
people what to understand, but I think what's important is
that there there are there are, yes, there are developmental ages.
They differ for boys and girls, and the effect is
different and the content is different. So if you look
at the research that Australia is using, and you look

(01:31:48):
at the stuff that Jonathan Height and others are doing.
There's also a I sat on a panel last year.
There's a think tank out of oh whereas it it
is Toronto Metropolitan University. What was Ryerson If you look
up them and screen break, it's a really big think

(01:32:13):
tank and they've gone across the country and they're trying
to determine, you know, how these policies are working in
schools and things, and they lean on that same kind
of research. So the idea really the nuance here is
that you know, in that adolescent age, it's not you know,
a full ban on technology, but the social media is
really affecting young girls right and we're seeing you know,

(01:32:38):
increases in you know, depression, anxiety, all those kind of
things because because that the social media is really kind
of on the same wavelength, you know, it attracts young girls.
It it amplifies, you know, everything we know about the

(01:33:00):
stereotypes of beauty and all those kinds of things and
competition and it can be a real let's say, a
toilet's a toilet whirlpool for them. Boys boys are different
and I haven't dug into it, but I don't know
if the Australia band really focuses on boys. Boys boys

(01:33:22):
are get into addiction online and typically through pornography and
and games online gaming, and it has you know, it
has still has detrimental effects or can, but in a
completely different kind of stream. So yeah, it's it's interesting

(01:33:43):
to see this and it's interesting to see you know,
the policies coming out and but like you mentioned, uh,
i'd be interesting to see you know, like the accountability
and the uptake and those kind of things, because antecdotally,
the school bands and we see this all the time, right,

(01:34:04):
A big policy was announced, you know, it's great whatnot,
But antecdotally and maybe you've heard through your networks and
things like that, you know here in the province, I
think has really hit or miss. I think it really
depends on the school, the teacher, the students and all
kinds of things like that. So yeah, yeah, I don't
know what are your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
Well, I mean, I think the research is pretty clear
on how it impacts boys and girls differently. For girls,
you writers about bodies shaming and what have you in
those quests for the impossible, those types of things, and
then the concept of cyber bullying, with which doesn't make
any difference what gender you are, and for boys, it's
not only that, it's also the white people are getting
radicalized and violently so so that's been another impact for

(01:34:46):
youth which is extremely damning and alarming. You know, even
if you don't use social media, all the evils and
mills of the world are available in other parts of
the Internet. It's the connectivity, it's the interactive features of
social media that makes it different. Whether or not this
is going to work, probably not, given the fact that
the workarounds are already well understood. There's apparently chat rooms

(01:35:07):
down down in Australia where they're given to advice to
each other about how to get around this band. So
that's also part of it. But when I hear people say,
you know, they have a problem with the concept of
government overreach here as opposed to thinking about what's the
best we can do to protect youth from unnecessarily exposure
to uproiety things sextortion and the sharing of intimate images

(01:35:30):
in social media, and the anxiety and the depression and
the violence and the cyber bullying. I don't know why
that's not the focus as opposed to what the government
policy is.

Speaker 16 (01:35:38):
Yeah, the government overreach is kind of interesting. But I
think this is kind of this happens when we always
have these changes I think in society. I mean, I
don't want to draw too many parallels to smoking industry
or tobacco industry, but you know, you know, we knew
for years that cigarettes were causing cancer, but I mean
to drive that home and to get changes and you know,

(01:36:00):
like the companies weren't going to change that, right, so
at some point, Yeah, Like I think the the Australian
fact Sheet and what I've gathered from the media is
that a part of this is to uh, you know,
turn it back on those companies and uh for their responsibility.
I mean a few years ago, you probably know. I

(01:36:21):
I think I do believe it was Facebook, I mean
got exposed for basically, you know, psychologically tuning their platform
to be as addictive as possible to young girls and
things like this. Uh read it, read it. I do
believe in some of the news that I've been reading,
there is contemplating, you know, legal action against the government

(01:36:41):
for overreach. But like you said in your in your introduction,
I probably would probably bet that that's more about their
revenue stream than than than than worried about government overreach
for for any other kind of reason. So yeah, no,
it's uh, it's interesting though for me for a researcher

(01:37:02):
who's been doing this for a while to watch this trend, right,
because when you know, again, I'm an educational technologist, so
my job is to utilize technology and education. But it's
got you know, it's it's got to be super focused,
it's got to be evidence based, there's got to be
there's got to be something that benefits, right, rather than

(01:37:25):
just you know this idea that yeah, we'll just well
with AI, right, so we'll just throw AI on in
there and and everything will be great, when actually the
research in that, like we talked about before, is no. No,
maybe people that are learning how to learn should not
have everything done for them. Yeah, that's probably not a

(01:37:47):
good thing, right, probably.

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
Not, you know, the last one for me. So, these
giant tech companies, of course they're profit driven businesses and
their business model as well on so, but it's not
necessarily about the technology. It's about the science of human beings.
They understand what dopamine means and they know how to
get it going for you, and so to see your
product or your content shared or liked or positive comments

(01:38:11):
associated with it. It keeps you coming back. It's an
addictive property, just like a gambler would be addicted to
a VLT. They know how it works, they know the
damage they're doing, but they don't care why. The money
is extraordinary, the market value and the rich, the rich
or the wealth for those who are investors and those
at the helm is undeniable. And that's what they do.
They know what they're doing. And that's a real crying

(01:38:32):
shame to know out loud that these companies that have
such enormous impact on our day to day lives for
youth and adults to like they know what they're doing
and they know they're causing.

Speaker 16 (01:38:43):
Well, they have full psychology departments they do. Ye, So yeah, no,
it's very interesting. So yeah, I just wanted to have
a little chat and maybe throw some of those things
out there and maybe give some resources for people that
you know, would like to know a little more about
the actual research, but but you know, might find some
of the studies a little overwhelming. So that that when
the screen break from Toronto Metropolitan University and Jonathan Hyatt's

(01:39:09):
Heights book and things like that, Yeah, like it's yeah, yeah,
I mean, I mean again to be very you know,
to be very cautious as a researcher. You know, like
causation is very very hard to establish. But I think
they could be safe that we're you know, we're pretty
we're pretty clear on this one.

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
Yeah, no doubt about it, David. I was appreciate your time.

Speaker 16 (01:39:31):
Thanks for doing it, all right, thank you, have a
nice day you.

Speaker 2 (01:39:34):
Too, Bye bye. And you know, like the cell phone
ban is different than what we're talking about here, because
the cell phone ban in school was they talked about
the concept of cyber boiling, but that was more about
class disruptions than anything else. Right, all right, just get
a break in, don't go away.

Speaker 1 (01:39:47):
This is open line on the VOCM Bigland FM Radio network.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Welcome back to the program. Let's go to line number three.
Take it more to the clinical leader with healthcare infrastructure
at NL Health Services. That's doctor Greg Brown. And on
doctor Brown, you're on the air.

Speaker 3 (01:40:03):
Are you this morning?

Speaker 2 (01:40:04):
I'm doing okay, thanks for asking. How about you?

Speaker 1 (01:40:07):
Good?

Speaker 3 (01:40:07):
Good?

Speaker 2 (01:40:08):
So let's get into it. The new Ablatory Hub facility
up on Sabanga Drive is now open. I haven't had
a chance to visit yet to get an up close
and personal look at it. But my first question would
be what's the benefit of the patient.

Speaker 3 (01:40:23):
So the benefit of the patient is better access, more convenience.
Those are the two main ones. So purpose build space
with lots of parking, easy access, and it's allowed us
to expand the size and number of clinics and the
size and the number of a whole bunch of our

(01:40:44):
patient services.

Speaker 2 (01:40:46):
We're given the size and the space and the different
services and clinics. Are there people there to help you
navigate because sometimes it sounds very fundamentally, you walk in
the door, you find the clinical you're off to the races.
But for people who are on well or nervous or
are anxious about their health, are there someone there to
help you walk you through it.

Speaker 3 (01:41:02):
Yes, so we do have some folks at the front
door that are bringing people in. The signage is there's
some more signage that's actually coming once you get in
the facility. The way finding in the signage is excellent.
And what's happening this coming week on the sixteenth is
that our outpatient blood collection facility is going to open,

(01:41:25):
and that's right in the front of the building. The
outpatient hub is towards the rear.

Speaker 4 (01:41:31):
Of the building.

Speaker 2 (01:41:32):
Blood collection is interesting because when I've got a requisition
from a doctor not long ago, the first appointment I
could get was like about a month from now. So
are we moving blood collection technologists or technicians from other
places to staff up this oblatory hub or are these
new additions to the system.

Speaker 3 (01:41:49):
So short answer is both. So the Major's Path blood
collection facility will close and that's going to be moved
to the Unity Hub as of Chooseaycember sixteenth, So this Tuesday.

Speaker 4 (01:42:04):
We are we will.

Speaker 3 (01:42:05):
Have it's an expanded facility, so it's bigger than the
outpatient facilities that we have. So yeah, there'll be more access.
And what I what I'd tell people to do is
on your appointment reminder for something that was booked after
December the sixteenth, the new Unity Hub will be there

(01:42:27):
on your appointment reminder. Anybody who's making appointments that come
up after the sixteenth, the appointment will be at the
new blood collection center. You know, so look very closely
at your notifications when you get them as to where
this stuff is going to happen.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
I'm not telling you anything here you don't know, or
that the listeners don't know. Like when we talk about
the establishment of the collaborative care clinics or the primary
care teams and staffing levels throughout the healthcare system. How
about staffing for all the different offerings inside this new
I think you called it the Unity Facility.

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
So the building is the Unity Health Center, and where
the health services a patient hub in there is going
to be the urgent care center, and the blood collection
is physically separated as well, but it's all all part
of this Unity Health Center, which is the building itself. Look,
staffing is a challenge, but we're going in the right direction.

(01:43:23):
We have a third the number of open positions that
we had two years ago. But you know, recruitment, the
health professionals don't grow on trees. They're a valuable resource,
and you know, we're recruiting and retaining and going in
the right direction. So most of the positions up here

(01:43:45):
are are already full. It's a pleasant place to work,
so that helps as well. And it's purpose built so
Atlantos not only patients have better experience, it allows staff
to have a better experience, be more efficient, and just
have the better day on the job, you.

Speaker 2 (01:44:04):
Know, and a better day is better healthcare. Delivery, I
would assume doctor Brown. But the fact that the Atlantic
provinces have now shared an accreditation and the licensing, how
has that benefit of people in the province here with
the ease with coming traveling inside of the Atlantic provinces.

Speaker 3 (01:44:20):
Yeah, so, especially for facilities that require that we rely
on locomes and transient staff, that's made that process easier,
a lot less paperwork and things you know, are required.
Having said that, we're far more interested in having permanent
staff because that's a better model. Okay, So I think

(01:44:45):
the jury is still out on that, you know, to
be perfectly honest with.

Speaker 2 (01:44:50):
You, So you say that doctors and another healthcare professionals
don't grow on trees. Some only seventeen medical schools in
the country. We can only produce so many doctors through
various disciplines. Of the things that have been done on
the national front, like the conversation, that's moving towards you know,
easier lucks with a standard of accreditation, licensing in the country,
and then some immigration numbers for fast tracks to permanent

(01:45:10):
residency for foreign training doctors, you know with one year experience.
There is there other things you think, well, we should
be thinking about because You're right. We can't grow doctors
and or MPs or licensed practical nurses or social workers
on trees. So are we on the right track here?

Speaker 8 (01:45:26):
I mean we are, I'm weird.

Speaker 3 (01:45:27):
This is a multi pronged approach, okay. So you know,
we have a lot of dedicated and talented individuals working
on a whole bunch of fronts to address these issues.
So part of it is, as you said, looking at
the licensing requirements. Now, everyone got to remember, the licensing
is strict because it needs to be. You know, this

(01:45:50):
this is you know, these folks, myself included, have a
tremendous responsibility to our patients and it's important that we
vet training and abilities and things like that. So the
licensing is complex, but it probably could be streamlined a
little bit from what it is. But physician and extenders,

(01:46:13):
you know, so having nurse practitioners and a group of
practitioners called physician assistants are all things that we're looking
at and expanded roles for all of them in our system.

Speaker 2 (01:46:27):
Yeah, psycho nurses comes to mind as well. So I
appreciate you making time for the show this morning, doctor Brown,
because there's obviously a lot to talk about inside the
healthcare delivery system. So final message to those who may
indeed be using the services at the ambulatory heub on
ste Banger.

Speaker 3 (01:46:42):
So the message is is that phase two of our
openings start on Tuesday. So that's ultrasound, physiotherapy, occupational therapy,
our brand new pain clinic, and blood collection. Okay, and
that blood collection we moved from Major's Path to the
new Unity Hub. Pick your appointments because your next service

(01:47:05):
may not be where your last service was.

Speaker 2 (01:47:07):
Pre share your time, doctor Brown, thank you, thanks bye
bye bye byees Doctor Greg Brown, clinical lead for Infrastructure
NL Health Service. So this can break for the news.
Let me go back. Keith is notice to talk about
mental health then, Sean, let's talk about billings done by doctors.

Speaker 1 (01:47:20):
Don'nk away is open line on the VOCM Bigland FM
radio network.

Speaker 2 (01:47:26):
Welcome back. Let's go to line number two. Keith around the.

Speaker 13 (01:47:28):
Air and good morning, Patty.

Speaker 2 (01:47:31):
How are you doing excellent today? Thank you?

Speaker 13 (01:47:32):
How about you not today doing a great show again
there this morning.

Speaker 6 (01:47:36):
Thanks.

Speaker 13 (01:47:37):
I had to call him Patty because of a couple
of previous callers with regard to the Mitchell Roles incidents
calling on the Saint Times right now, there's some things
I'd like to speak to. First of all, I'll give
you a little brief history of myself.

Speaker 6 (01:47:51):
I'm a rigster nurse.

Speaker 13 (01:47:52):
I've been working thirty four years now as a rigister nurse,
and I have a fair bit of experience with metal
health clients. Currently I'm working as a verius nurse on
the impatient Mental health unit at Western, but I've also
got experience with the Mobile Crisis Response SEE and the
Flexible Service Community Treatment Team. And there's a few things
that I think that made me want to call it

(01:48:13):
in the first I think the first thing was the color.
I think his name was Daryl just cart bonds. Everybody
he's branded the same because you got schizophniyars the way
or and as it's so far from the truth is
not funny. First of all, schizophrenia is no different than
diabetes or cancers, varying degrees to it, and there is treatment.

Speaker 3 (01:48:29):
Fourth.

Speaker 13 (01:48:30):
But I mean, I was expecting him to go down
the route of we're going to start from a little
bodies again, you know, I'm like, we're not going in
there with the second color, the guy from Montreal. This
is a guy that sounds like he's got lived experience
and he is a lot closer to what's going on.
I think he understands what's going on, and he's just
hitting nail around the head with the problems in the system.

(01:48:52):
So again a further instroem myself. Back in two thousand
and seven, the new Mental Health Care and Treatment Act rolled.
There's a group of us that went in the same
time to do what was called train the trainer. We
were taught by doctor John Gray, was the lead consultant
on the new Mental Health Care and Treatment Act. Because
our old act was our cake. It was from the
from the sixties. So in the early two thousand they
decided to need to change this. So the consultant dis

(01:49:13):
guy doctor John Gray from Ontiro, who had consulted with
another different health authorities to work their acts, and he
was down there dall hours. When we were finished. He
felt that this was probably the best mental Health Care
and Treatment Act in Canada at the current time, you know.
So my job was to understand the Antnity Act and
learn and come back and trade trained disciplines back in
our area back here. So we did that and I

(01:49:34):
come back and I've been working at that now I
no longer teach the Act anymore. I talked to a
lot of discipines there in West Coast. I taught school
of nursing the ConA we didn't do the Peace Officer
of the Errant Senior SMP said they were going to
do their own training. But there's been a couple of incidents,
you know that this happened. And this is why I
think the scar from Montreal really hit the nail on hits,

(01:49:56):
because it's the act self is a really good act,
and I don't think there's gaps in the system. I
think the problem is enforcing the act is where the
problem is allays with people that are enforcing it. And
just a couple of things. The first thing is when
we hear and I heard this again this morning a
couple of times that they have no you know, the
RNCA or the RCNP have no authority to bring somebody
that do not wanting to come voluntary. So far from

(01:50:17):
the truth is not funny. We had an incident back
here on the West Coach. I think that's probably around
tw twenty eleven when our Christophers Viki ended up killing
the man at Kippens and ended up he had a
bipolar disorder. I think it was bipolar disorder is what
he had. He was on well and he ended up
assaulting the guy ended up killing him and he was
locked away at the Waterford Hospital for numbers of years.

(01:50:39):
And this time he of course had the selfare grief
of losing the loved one. At the time, the RCNPN
y Arns were both training their own authorities and they
decided that they needed someone else to come into help
with the train. So I actually went to dear Lake
and did the RCMP and direct and when I got
talking about what police officers can or can't do, it

(01:50:59):
was they were dumb done about what I was telling
me or saying, what do you mean we can just
take somebody. So I'm going to quote you now from
the Mintal Health Care and Treatment Act atoximent. There's three
ways someone can be brought to a hospital for an
involuntary assessment if not in the mission as an involuntary
assessment and one is a doctor can write a first
certificate which gets your body and the segon one is
a judge can order and the third one is apter
used to buy peace officer an Article twenty under a

(01:51:20):
mid term treatment Act, and I'm going to read it
to you, Patty. It says, we're a peace officer has
reasonable grounds to believe that a person A has a
middle disorder and B as a result of the mental
disorder as caused or is likely to cause harm to
himself or herself or another, or is likely to suffer
substantial physical or mental deterioration or serious physical impairment, and

(01:51:43):
refuses to submit to a psychiatric assessment. And it is
not feasible in the circumstances to make an application for
an order on an Article sixty or nineteen, which is
the judge's order, the peace officer may immediately app me
in the person and convey him or her to a
facility for an involuntary psychiatric assessment. So when I brought
this up to the RCNP and the're like in twenty

(01:52:03):
fourteen or fifteen, when it was there, like god, you know,
we didn't notice. Since this Act roller in two thousand
and seven, it be is reviewed, and this is part
of the legislation that has to be reviewed every five years.
And when they reviewed, they've found some things wrong and
change it because obviously your everything is not perfect when
you do something and one of the things that they
did do is they developed a mobile crisis response team,

(01:52:24):
and I'm sure you're familiar with that. I've worked at that.
And this is just as a collaborative partnership between RNC
and this land Levetor Health Service. And what it is,
it's a healthcare clinician and a plane closed peace officer
that will go to a call for a willness check.
And what happens on these calls is that I've done this,
I've been part of that, is that the healthcare clinician
is the one who decides that the client can be

(01:52:45):
apprehended or not. Is not the RNC or the RCMP.
They don't make the decision. They enforced a lot and
if the if the healthcare clinician feels that this person
in fact should be detained for an involuntary psychiacer, the
system and the ARNC or RCP stovice to bring that
person forward. So when I hear that, oh, we got
no authority, that's so far from the truth. Is not funny. Now,

(01:53:06):
it may be their perceiption of what goes on, because
I've had incidents at our hospital and I know that
Mitchell was on a community treatment order and these orders
are looked for six months. They have to be re
rote every six months. Sometimes the doctor feels that the
client is doing well nothing, you know, he may not
no longer do it. But I was working one time
at the hospital and we had someone brought in under
our CTO because he didn't get to his injection is

(01:53:26):
every three week condition. And when the police officer looked
at me and he said, you know, how are we
going to be doing this stuff like Dragon's guy and
are giving a neal? And I looked at the policeman
and I said, how long are you going to give
the speeding tickets for people doing one hundred and fifty?
Like this is the law? A new famanda labra or
you need to understand that you're not doing me a favor.
You know you're not doing this guy a favor. So
I think the biggest part of the problem right now

(01:53:46):
is that is education. And further to that, Patty, when
you talk where you know people got family, family's hands
were tied. I don't think family members understand that anybody
can go to a judge and say, hey, you need
to have this guy. You know, here's what's going on.
He has mindlessordiers on the CTO. Thatt got stopped. He's
not taking this miss can we get in order to
having bud in for an assistment? And the judge feels

(01:54:08):
that you know what you're is legit taken order. And
not only that, Patty in the in the in the
Mental Health Care and Treatment Act, Article seven talks about
the pretections from the law building that's even for a
tourt by a police officer. Anybody you know is administering
the law and bringing something haven't brought in. So I
don't think families are aware that they can go to
a judge and have an order to have this person

(01:54:28):
brought in. And I don't think the police forces fully
understand what the law means, any intent of the law.
And I think that's a bigger part of the problem
than the the The Act itself.

Speaker 2 (01:54:37):
Right, very informative. So yeah, I'm just trying to follow
along here. So is the assertion that law enforcement don't
actually understand the Mental Health Act. Because when the r
C Mobile Mental Health Crisis Team responded upon the request
of the Rose family, they said that they could not
do anything about it beyond offer help and if Mitchell

(01:54:58):
was unwilling to accept help. That was all they could do,
as opposed to if you're ordered the community treatment order,
there was authority for involuntary hospitalization and further evaluation. So
is that what's going on?

Speaker 13 (01:55:11):
Well, there's a misunderstanding. There's two different things there. Okay,
So under a community treatment order, you're not being apprehended
to most times, you're not being apprehended to be admitted.
What you're doing is you didn't go for your ejyction,
you didn't show up for your your medication treatment. Now
you're being apprehended to have your egyption then most likely
being released back into the community. The second part is

(01:55:34):
that you're talking with someone who's not under community treatment order,
but the family feels they need a willness check. What
should respond to what's supposed to respond to this is
the mobile Crisis Response team is a healthcare clinician and
an RNC officer or RCMPOS depending on where you're two.
The RNCRC or the peace officer's job at that time

(01:55:54):
is to listen to the healthcare clinician. So if I looked,
if I went to see Patty and I'm trying to
do an assessment on you and you're refusing to talk
to me as healthcare clinics. And I'm going to say,
and this is what should happen. I can't do an assessment.
He needs to be apprehended, so the right people can
do an assessment and see if he needs to be
admitted or released. It back into where wherever it came from. Right,

(01:56:18):
So I think part of the job is that and
is black and white. When if they got reasonable grounds
they hurt, they can and I'll read it the infrared,
the peace officer may immediately apprehend that person and convey
him or her to a facility for an involuntary psychiatric assessment.
There's black and white. I don't know what the misunderstanding is,

(01:56:40):
but I mean it isn't black and white. If you
have a mental disorder and as a result of that,
you may deterry physically mentally, you may harm yourself, you
may harm somebody else you can and you're refusing to
come voluntarily, you can be apprehended. And I don't know
where the knick s up is coming from. And you know,
and again, like I said back in twenty thirteen or
fourteen when I went to there, like every are cmpofs

(01:57:00):
are in the room, was like, what do you mean
we can just take them in kind of thing, right,
So I think there needs to be a better education
program out there so that everybody fully knows the extent
of what they're able to do, and have these like
this should never happen, you know, and are going on
all the time. We don't even hear other stuff that
goes on until it becomes so severe that someone is

(01:57:22):
killed on forcing hear someone ends up in the hospital
and critical condition. But I mean with education, I think
the peace officers have a better understanding of their job
and hopefully you don't see this stuff going on, right,
so yes they can bring in and again when I
was trained in two thousand and seven, part of my
training was the intention of the line, the intention of
the acting, the intention of each article. And doctor John

(01:57:44):
Gray was the chief right around, has told me that
the intention of this is that the RNCIR CMP have
the power to say, okay, you have to say cancer
unless we can't do a good AS system there. Now
you're going to going to the hospital for the AS
system to be done by a healthcare professionalist or chartist
who was disqualified say yeah, yeah, or now what do
you need to be a matter?

Speaker 2 (01:58:02):
Keith? What do you appreciate you doing this this morning?
Thanks a lot. Yeah, you're welcome, Take good care, stay
in touch you.

Speaker 13 (01:58:08):
Too, YouTube, bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:58:09):
Bye, all right, final break in the morning. We want
to come back. Shaw's there to talk about doctor's billings.

Speaker 1 (01:58:13):
Don't go away is open line on the VOCM big
Land FM radio network.

Speaker 2 (01:58:19):
Welcome back to the program. Let's go to a lone
number one. Good morning, Sean, you're on the air.

Speaker 6 (01:58:24):
Yes, great show, Patty, how are you today?

Speaker 2 (01:58:26):
I'm doing okay, Thank you? How about you?

Speaker 6 (01:58:29):
Not bad every buddy, Doctor Schearn Buckingham Colin. I'd like
to compliment doctor Brown on his new clinic and great
ideas about healthcare and the problems, as well as doctor
Pat Parfrey. As you know, he's an icon in the

(01:58:50):
province and he spearheaded the future plan for a tenure
plan to renovate healthcare as it is and now it's
starting to bear fruit. My calling this morning is secondary

(01:59:10):
to some doctor who build four point nine million, who
was an ophthalmologist.

Speaker 2 (01:59:19):
I believe.

Speaker 6 (01:59:21):
What I don't understand, and maybe because it wasn't given
out in transparency, is why he was suspended by a
medical board. The medical board's function is to promote safety

(01:59:43):
for the public in terms of, you know, you don't
want doctors out there killing patients, Okay, And that's the
bottom mine. It functions, it has the ability to function autonomously,
and it cannot be sued. So the first thing I
would want to know is, you know what this guy did. Now,

(02:00:04):
this guy is a genius. He graduated number one in
every class he attended. Okay, top one percent. Okay, and
we're lucky to have him. Okay. There was a GP
out in Grandfather's walk back when made one point eighty
seven million. Nobody questioned that. When I was working at
Bay Largent, my maximums were about three point fifty three

(02:00:26):
sixty a year, So MCP hired a separate auditor just
for me. So I don't know if they did the
same in this case or what the hell happened. But
I do know four point nine as a doctor myself,
I know that's that's a bit much. I know that
guy was out of Florida, California. He had buildings up

(02:00:46):
in the one hundred and twenty million, no problem. So
my advice to him is to seek greener pastures. And
my second thing, he said, Patty, I'm worried about this guy.
If he's putting in this amount of work, you know
he's going to drop hits soon of a heart attack

(02:01:07):
or something, because you know, if he's seen that many paces, Patty,
you know, it's just it's too much.

Speaker 2 (02:01:14):
But we're all guessing now because nobody knows why he's suspended.
If it's a billing issue, okay, if it's something else,
all right, because there's lots of things the doctor can
do to run a foul of the college and consequently
gets suspended. So until I know more, I really don't know.
You know, the ins and the outs of this. I
don't think anybody does, other than folks who have reviewed
the issue and brought forth the suspension chan just as

(02:01:34):
a technical matter. You keep calling yourself a doctor, but
are you a doctor?

Speaker 6 (02:01:41):
Oh for sure, Yeah, I've I've reapplied to the colleges
across Canada and I've been accepted at two. The medical
board here refuses to take me back because I'm a pariah,

(02:02:01):
and because enough time it's lapsed now that I've been
pardoned about my princes and so you know, according to
the partons Canada a solid citizen again, whatever that means.
And at present I have two A major. I mean,
I was in hospital for half a year, Patty, I

(02:02:22):
just had surgery on my cold. I took half of
it out together. I cancer in my bow. So I'm
sitting here here in the house taking me a minsial uh.
And I put two complaints into the medical boards in
September and I haven't heard anything back. And these are
serious complaints. And the question is, can the medical board,

(02:02:45):
you know, not respond to me because they don't like me,
or because I'm a paria or can they just say
I don't know him?

Speaker 2 (02:02:54):
I mean that question obviously, because I have no idea
what the process even looks like or feels like. Simply
because of the time. I'm going to sneak out one
more call. But when we find out more about doctor Dang,
I suppose we'll be talking about it again.

Speaker 6 (02:03:06):
You take good care, I give, I give, I give
my best to doctor Bang and I wish you best luck. Patty.

Speaker 2 (02:03:12):
Thanks Sean, Bye, bye, Okay, hops quick, let's last word
goes the line through.

Speaker 9 (02:03:16):
John.

Speaker 2 (02:03:16):
You're on the air.

Speaker 17 (02:03:19):
Good morning, young man, taking my call, Patty, no problem Okay, uh,
I just want to try to clear up a little
bit of confusion about a concert that we are having
at Saint Gabriels Hall in Mary'stown tonight in support of
the support of the Happy Tree. Because of the ongoing
problems with the water shot off down here with a

(02:03:39):
changeover in the chlorination, we had to cancel our show
last night and we moved it up to the night.
So we just want to make sure that people understand
that it's not canceled, that it is. It is on
the goo for tonight. It starts at seven thirty, doors
open at seven, and we have like theater at the
hall group, we have like acchoir, we have a Salvation

(02:04:02):
Army band, and we have lots of the local talent
that is here to support the BOC and Happy Tree.
So we just want to make sure that folks understand
Patty that the show is on the go for tonight.

Speaker 2 (02:04:14):
I'm glad to hear it. So the water issue has
been rectified.

Speaker 17 (02:04:17):
Well, the water's still off here as of the present time,
but it's due to be rectified at any time.

Speaker 2 (02:04:22):
Okay, that's the good news, because if it's not, will
that mean a further postponement if they don't get it
figure and.

Speaker 17 (02:04:27):
Figured out, regrettably, it will. So we'll just tell folks
to pay attention to Facebook and any other media that
we can access, and we'll let them know accordingly. But
as it stands right now, we are a goal for tonight.

Speaker 2 (02:04:40):
Yeah, and fingers crossed, you are a goal for tonight.
If anything changes, you get in touch with us, we'll
probably we'll try to put it out there for your
listeners or our listeners.

Speaker 17 (02:04:48):
I certainly appreciate Patti, Thank you very much, have a
great Christmas.

Speaker 2 (02:04:50):
The very scene to you, John, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 6 (02:04:53):
Bye.

Speaker 2 (02:04:54):
So the concert is a go. That is the good news,
just a very quick one. Several people have sent this along.
And you know, at one point I was told I
was afraid to mention the made up peace prize that
the president got at the Kennedy Center when they did
the FIFA Final World Cup draw pools. So this is

(02:05:14):
what happened today. So the American Department of Justice dismissed
the case against two defendants who were convicted in a
FIFA corruption case. A FIFA is corrupt, so's the IOC,
and everybody knows the corruption that is rife within FIFA.
So when the little bobble was given, now, all of
a sudden, two convicted FIFA members have now been seen

(02:05:36):
their case dropped, a federal case being conductioned by the
Department of Justice. It's a wild world, all right. Final
checking on the Twitter box or bocm oupenline followers, there,
I see sports trending the Blue Jays. Oh, I wonder
what that entails here today. I did see out of
the corner of my eye maybe but Sheet is close
to signing a three hundred million dollars deal with the Dodgers.
I don't know if that's true or not, but anyway,

(02:05:57):
Email addresses, open Line, APOSM dot com show today big
thanks to all hands, all the callers, listeners, emailers and tweeters.
You are all right. We will indeed pick up this
conversation again four morning, right here on VOCM and big
Land FM's Open Line and behafter the producer of Greg
Smith and My Baren I'm your host, Patty Daily. You
have yourself a safe, fun happy dayble talk in the morning.
Bye bye,