Thursday Dec 18th

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is VOCM Open Line call seven oh nine two seven,
three fifty two eleven or one triple eight five ninety
eight six two six abusing opinions of this programmer, not
necessarily those of this station. The biggest conversation in Newfoundland
and Labrador starts now Here's VOCM Open Line Host Paddy Daily.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, all right and good morning to you. Thank you
so much for tuning into the program. It's Thursday, December
the eighteenth. This is Open Line. I'm your host, Patty Daily,
David Williams, he's the producer. Let's get it go on.
If you're in the Saint John's metro region. The number
of dialogue on the show seven zero nine two seven
three five two one one elsewhere A total free long
distance one eight eight eight five night Y VOCM, which

(00:45):
is eighty six twenty six. So it's been a pretty
wacky couple of weeks. The weather, you're pretty mild out today,
but apparently the temperature is gonna plummet again. I suppose
that's nature of the beast this time year. All right, So,
just one week away from the World June. Last night
Canada had their first tune up game against Sweden, had
two to one victory. A couple of big names big

(01:05):
part of it. Brady Martin, who was a fifth overall
pick by Nashville last year, had two goals and Gat
McKennon had two assists. They look pretty good, look pretty tight.
They played Sweden again in their next tune up affair
and of course Boxing Day the very first game of
the tournament against Chechia in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Let's go Canada.
Last year Dismal finished fifth when we hosted in Ottawa.

(01:26):
Hoping for better this go round. All right, on this
date in history in twenty twenty two, one of the finest,
most exciting sporting matches I have ever watched. Of course,
it was France versus Argentina in the World Cup final
in Katar. Lionel Messi, of course one of the greatest
players of all time, but he did not have his
World Cup and they finally got it. He scored twice

(01:46):
in that game, which finished three to three in regulation time,
killing Mbappe, one of the finest players in the world,
scored a hat trick for France, only the second person
to ever do it. I think George Hurst scored for
scored three for England back in nineteen sixty six. So
Argentina goes on to win four two penalties and for
sports fans it was just something to behold. Let's keep cooling.
So this is not the first time, but the government's

(02:08):
put out a new RFP for an extra swing vessel
in the province's ferry fleet. All right, So got some
pretty specific capacity requirements here, similar to the Legionaire or
the Veteran. Capasitive up to two hundred and fifty passengers,
vehicle dip up to four hundred meters, capable year round operations,
conditions like we seen around the Tickle or on the
Fogo Island run okay, So I don't know how many

(02:30):
vessels like this are out there floating around. We may
indeed be going down the path to having to build
this type of fair because remember when we ordered and
had the two ferries, the Veteran and the Legionnaire, they
were wicked expensive. Remember all the goings on about the
potential for tariffs have to be paid because they were
built in the Diamond shipyards in Romania. Eventually it got

(02:51):
all worked out, but at least one of them just
bobbed around in Saint John's Harbor for quite a long
time waiting for maintenance contracts to be finalized for decks
or docks pardon me, to be built to accommodate the
different sides that these vessels were compared to the ones
that were on the runs. But we're going out there
to see if there's another vessel. Yesterday a good friend
of the show Verner call for Bell Island talking about

(03:11):
their ferry wos. And it happens every time is when
there's someone calls complaining about ferry services, you'll get a
lot of emails fro folks who obviously don't live on
island service by fairies, that talk about the future of
these communities. Look, not every island service by a nutral
provincial ferry is created equal. There are big differences, whether
it be economies, locally speaking, young families that remain and

(03:34):
into the future. But I get absolutely pummeled with the
emails saying it's time to empty out the base. Really
not so fast. I mean, it's pretty complicated when you
think about it, But I do think we'll go we'll
look back years from now and think we really should
have had a better more fulsome conversation about regionalization. The
Liberal government we're all about it. There For a while,

(03:54):
the contents pushed back from save for instance, local service
districts and other communities who thought they would lose their idea,
identity and they'd be forced to move out of their
community into the next largest community, pay additional taxes for
no additional services, a lot of which was exaggerated. But
I think we're going to have to try to figure
out some regional cooperation. I guess the term regionalization really

(04:16):
put a lot of people off, but cooperation amongst smaller
municipalities or unincorporated lsds is going to be part of
the conversation in the future. Now will that happen under
this current government? I don't know. They really came to
power based on the rural vote. So is there the
appetite for these tricky, difficult, emotional conversations. Eventually we're going

(04:36):
to have it. It's going to be force fed, honest,
But you want to take it on, we can do it.
And also, you know, you think about the fiscal update
that we got from Minister Parity not that long ago,
and we're talking about a deficit now wrapped up to
nine hundred and forty eight million dollars from six hundred
and twenty six million dollars and some of the different
inputs that have caused that deficit increase as reported by

(04:57):
Minister Party. Then you look at how aligned we still
are on the oil industry, and the price of a
barrel of oil is not very strong. It's crept under
sixty bucks as of the end of trading yesterday. It
was fifty nine to twenty seven the last time I
looked yesterday. So it's a concern end of the future.
And if you want to take on any of those
big conversations, let's do it. And I do see some

(05:18):
people chiming in on. Look, there are tough times on
the go. There are lots of people struggling. Debt and
deficit is out of control. You know, the plants to
stabilize their electricity rates runs out. That pot of money
runs out in twenty thirty with no real plans in
the future. So I get all of this kind of stuff,
But there is reason for optimism regarding real economic growth

(05:39):
next year. And you know, I search around to see
what people are saying about it, and of course economic
growth forecasts are exactly that they're forecasts, but it does
look promising into the future here in the province, and
we can only cross our fingers and hope that it
actually manifests itself. So five point three percent growth predicted
for next year to lead all provinces in the country. So,

(05:59):
you know, at some point, maybe it's from our own
self preservation, is you try to find some good things
and positive things to add to the pile and then
to my poor old addled mind through the course of
the day in the week. So anyway, they're big conversations.
But and oh, just a gentle reminder, don't hesitate to
bring us a little good news here on the program
in the form of a phone call if you are

(06:19):
so inclined. Okay, I see energy NLL chiming in on
the Upper Churchill Memorandum of Understanding. I mean, I get
some emails saying, you know, why do we keep talking
about it? Well, we keep talking about it because it's
one of the most important documents yet to possibly be signed.
You know, it's much akin to the Atlantican Court. So
it's a big, big deal. And on that front, it
got blistered pretty hard yesterday about any thoughts about the

(06:40):
panel itself. Now, I think it's welcome that this scope
and the mandate has been broadened because it's important to
do so. So you look at every sort of different angle,
potential risk and the change of the reality on the
ground into the future. Why wouldn't we I think that
that itself makes sense. But I didn't say anything disparage
about Michael Wilson. What I did say is the same

(07:02):
things we said about Dennis Brown, is that when people
have made their position patently understood publicly, then how do
they operate on this panel, this type of panel. When
Dennis Brown said it was a good deal before the
panel was struck, lots of people had problems with it,
and they would send me emails saying, you know, how
can someone who's already got a predetermined outlook on this

(07:23):
be part of a quasi independent review. I think the
same thing is being said about mister Wilson. Now, plenty
of people get the feeling that this is going to
die on the buying and the word will be no
definitive agreements into the future. I don't know. I don't
have a crystal ball, but it may indeed fall apart,
and you can think it's a good deal or a

(07:43):
bad deal, or somewhere in the middle. Or you don't
understand it, or you don't care about it, but it
is a big, big conversation and we're happy to entertain
it here on the show. Of course. All right. I
heard Bron Callahan on with the Morning Show crew talking
about the types of cases on the court pocket and
he listed off a string of murder cases and attempted
murder cases all on the docket today. So even in

(08:06):
that realm of public safety and some of the scourges
and the root causes that had led us on this
path to all of those cases of murder, attempted murderer
and other serious crimes, just absolutely amazing. Maybe we'll get
Brian to join us for a moment here on the program.
And I think there's plenty of big questions to be
asked about the stall or the pause of operations in
provincial court. It's not criminal matters, but still matters of importance,

(08:29):
and I did appreciate reading some of the thoughts offered by,
for instance, Mike Murray, and Mike, if you're listening this morning,
you're welcome to join us. He opined that it might
lead to people thinking, well, you know, if my case
isn't going to be heard, in a timely fashion, and
maybe some of the potential tickets might be thrown out
as a result of the lack of timeliness and access
to the courts. Then it might lead people to just

(08:50):
conduct themselves poorly, whether it be behind the wheel or otherwise.
Now access to justice. You know, I don't think we've
got a whole lot of feedback on that particular story here,
but it's a big deal. It really truly is. You know,
we talk about staffing levels and healthcare, but staffing levels
in the criminal justice system is a massive, big concern,
or at least it should be so, whether it be

(09:12):
in the provincial courts with administrative staff or sheriff's officers
or clerks or whatever the case may be. I don't
know why that hasn't gotten much traction, but for me,
that is a huge development. Courts are closed and people
are having to travel long distances to simply have their
case hurt if when they actually get a court at date.
And I know it's not criminal, it's civil, but it's

(09:32):
a big deal, right subverted interesting story yesterday about the
town of flat Rock, when we knew that the Roman
Catholic Episcopal Corporation had become insolvent, and you all know
the story selling off all the church properties. At the
time it was initially announced, we were told that cemeteries
would be out of bounce and they wouldn't be for sale.
But apparently in flat Rock they had to scramble to

(09:54):
not only buy the church and the grotto and the cemetery.
And I was kind of surprised to read that. I
didn't you know there was a cemetery included issue with this,
And a couple of reasons why I bring it up.
Number one, we hear plenty of concerned about some of
these cemetery operations where, unbeknownst to the loved ones who
are buried in that's one cemetery or another, things like

(10:16):
flowers and other personal items were being removed without anybody
being told. And I find that to be heartbreaking. Whether
it be for the ease of ground keeping or whatever,
still feels like a pretty cold thing to do without
letting the families know or make it publicly understood that
you've got a week and here's what we're going to do,
and that didn't happen. In addition to that, at some
point this current government is probably going to be forced

(10:39):
to try to figure out a way to come up
with the shortfall in finances for their survivors at Mountcashell.
So the selling off of all the properties from the
Roman Catholic Episcopal Corporation. I can't remember the exact number
off the top of my head, was around forty maybe
close to fifty million dollars. But we're told that the
conversation is probably going to exceed one hundred million dollars.
So how's that shortfall going to be met? You can

(11:02):
only imagine that it's going to be on the responsibility
of the provincial government. And remember, inside of that selloff,
we also were forced to buy the schools that the
Roman Catholic Corporation said that they owned, even though the
Schools Act was clear they said, as long as those
buildings are used for educational purposes, they're out of bounce.
But apparently that change. We paid thirteen million, I think

(11:22):
for like thirty one schools. So where's that additional money
going to come from? Got to be the government, right, Okay?
Boy oh boy? I do wish some of the emails
manifested themselves into calls, but plenty of outrage regarding the
most recent space in floor crossings. Of course, two members
of the Conservative Party have left to join forces with

(11:43):
the Liberals, Michael Maua, Chris Dontrement. Another CPC member Matt Generu,
has just quit. So lots of blame going around, and
things like the assertion of backroom deals and shady business.
And I think it gets intensified this go around because
it's not new. We all know this to be true.
But when the Liberals all of a sudden are just
one seat shy of majority, I think that's brought additional

(12:07):
levels of frustration, additional levels of anger or whatever the
right phrase is to attach to or adjective to attach too.
But we get plenty of emails. I'm going to say,
since my comalcross, I don't know, ballpark, couple of one
hundred emails, and out of the couple of hunter for
a round number, I'll say twenty who basically say, look,
this happens all the time, what's the big deal? And

(12:28):
the rest of them people are furious. So we're happy
to talk about it here on the show. If you
are so inclined, all right, let's talk a bit of trade.
So I was asked if I had watched the Pettysburg
address last night, the President addressing the nation. I didn't,
but I did follow along with some of the new
trade demands being brought forward by the Americans, in particular

(12:50):
US Trade Representative jameson Greier. And this is testifying in
front of Congress. He goes on to say, the cosma,
the Trilateral trade Deal has been successful to a certain degree,
but there need to be changed before Trump agrees to
extend it for another sixteen years or virtual yearly reviews,
something that obviously we like to avoid given all the
uncertainty associated with those up in the air trade agreements. Okay,

(13:13):
so some of the numbers are staggering. Since twenty twenty
when that deal was signed, exports from America to Canada
and Mexico are up fifty six percent. Fifty six percent,
and still the deal we were told was the greatest
deal ever. Now all of a sudden isn't, even though
trade is up fifty six percent. So they're making a
variety of demands. One is for US alcohol to be

(13:35):
back on provincial shelves to sweet and of course you
hear like people like Premier doug Ford saying until there's
tier for laf sought and found, then the American boos
will remain in the warehouse, so they talking about American booze.
Then they're talking about regulatory imbalance with Canadian fissures, and
that is an interesting conversation that I don't know if

(13:56):
we ever really talked about it here on the show,
but this is what they call a grays new New
Brunswick and Maine that both Canada and the Americans have claimed,
So that'll be a probably very interesting negotiation. Then it's
the Online Streaming Act. We continue to see people mischaracterize
what that actually means. So of course it has drawn

(14:16):
the eye of the big American tech companies. But when
I see people, for instance, on Facebook say, you know,
the liberal government won't let me share Canadian news stories,
that's not true. It's Facebook won't let you share Canadian
news stories. Why because they refuse to pay for Canadian content.
You can think that's a good idea or a bad idea,
but the government, in no shape or form said that

(14:37):
Canadian news stories cannot be shared on for instance, Facebook.
Facebook made that decision. So they want to see that
Online Streaming Act go by the wayside. And then right
back to the all bugaboo of dairy products. Supply management.
It's a relatively tedious conversation, but it's most welcome by

(14:57):
Canadian farmers and you know who else loves it, American farmers.
They wish they had it, you know, back in the sixties,
because it's as old as the nineteen sixties. There was
technological advances that resulted in overproduction consequently low prices. So
we've been talking about this for over half a century.
Is it good is it bad? Depends on who you ask.
There is no consensus out there amongst any research that's

(15:19):
ever been done on supply management. It has what they
call three pillars. First, one is quotas. There's a national
marketing agency determines the amount of production for each commodity
and then sets production quotas for each province. If you're
going to produce these products a sell, you have to
own a quota if you are a farmer, so it's
pretty fundamental. Second, minimum prices. They guarantee a minimum price

(15:42):
for their products, so what they call a farmgate process
a farmgate price, and basically the keep farmers afloat. And
we already have a problem here in the country with
the number of farms that have dwindled. In twenty fourteen,
there was a company called Nielsen. They were commissioned by
the Dairy Farmers of Canada and showed the price of
Canadian dairy prices compared favorably with other countries. Then they

(16:03):
go on to the third pillar, which is high tariffs,
which is the problem for the Americans. All right. There
is a quota for the importation of American dairy products,
whether it be dairy or poultry or eggs, and the
Americans hit it, generally speaking, year over year. And after
that there's a pretty high tariff which I don't think
has ever been paid American farmers. Of course, that's the

(16:26):
clear example of socialism. They have their own strategies, and
you can talk about the Chinese tariff, ford soybeans and
all that stuff. But in the world of dairy, we
actually allow more American dairy products into this country than
they let from Canada into their country. It's long been
a really strange approach taken on this particular conversation. Then

(16:48):
you look at how it's worked in other countries. The
largest milk producer in the world is New Zealand. If
we're talking about a country in New Zealand, milk prices
are higher than they are in Canada, in Austin Australia,
when they did away with regulations, they didn't call a
supply management, but in essence it was when they did
away with it. Three years after they did away with it,
dairy prices were up twenty seven percent. So again there

(17:12):
is no consensus. You know, I asked the Montreal Economic
Institute and they'll say it costs the average family an
additional five hundred plus dollars per year. But then you'll
ask another think tank or another research organization and they'll
point to the merits of supply management. But the demands
are now on the table, even though since twenty twenty

(17:32):
exports from America to Canada and Mexico are a fifty
six percent. And yes, the uncertainty leads to a lot
of chaos, which leads to the struggle to bring in
capital investment. Anyway, we're on Twitter where VOSM open line
follow us there, email addresses open on ATHOSM dot com.
When we come back, let's have a great show. That
means you're in the youth topic up to you don't away,

(17:53):
welcome back to the program. There was recently a special
report of the Office of the Child and Youth Advocate
called a report examining the policies and procedures in place
to ensure the safety and well being of children and
youth in receipt of protective intervention services were a report
of child sexual abuse or exploitation is received, Join us
on the line. Line number one is Karen Gray, the
Child and Youth Advocate for the Problems. Good morning, Karen,
you're on the air.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Good morning Patti. Thank you for having us.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Happy to have you on. Look, this is a big deal.
It was first instigated by then Premier Fury. Talk about
the Bruce Escott and Tony Humby cases. Mister Escott, we
know the results from his thirteen year sentence. Tony Humby
yet to be determined. It's hard to even know where
to start here. Can you talk about what you think
are the key findings?

Speaker 3 (18:33):
Well, you know, as you said, this was as a
result of you know, the I guess, the conversation that
was out there in the public domain with respect to
the cases that you referenced, and there was a call
for you know, the government to act and as a result,
the Premiere of the day, then Premier Fury, directed my

(18:56):
office to review and investigate and report on the policies
and procedures in play to ensure the safety and well
being of children and you can receive protective intervention services,
particularly where reporters received alleging that a challer youth had
been sexually abused. So we did that. We we undertook
despite the fact that we had never been asked to
do that before. In that way. We undertook this because

(19:19):
we believe it's also a pretty critical area of examination,
and we you know, we looked at the history and
context with respect to how our province responds to these
types of cases, and then we took it one step
further by outlining, you know, looking at specific referrals. We

(19:44):
asked for the referrals that were in the system from
two thousand and seven to twenty twenty four. So what
we you know, what we found. We found a number
of things, but we it was real relatively positive. You know,
we said that, you know, generally, the child protection legislation

(20:05):
and policies that dictate the jurisdiction and the investigative processes
and case management of child sexual abuse manners had been
well established for many years and are prioritized appropriately. There's
also you know, we saw collaboration and partnerships that were
in place and that were effective in terms of their
implementation and the work that they were doing. But we

(20:26):
also show we also found that the department has shown
continued capacity to respond to the challenges that emerge in
these particular cases and they adapt to changing circumstances. You know,
when we looked at the referrals, we certainly found that
there were areas of improvement, but generally speaking, the policies
and procedures that are in place had been followed.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
It's that collaboration piece that there must have been some
sort of disconnect. And it's not just about Tony Umbria
Bruce Esca. This is about every child that's ever been
in protective services by the province. So do we identify
some of the breakdown, whether it be between the Department
law Enforcement, your office and the type of training afford
the people who are offering the care. So can you

(21:12):
identify where there might have been some breakdowns where efficiencies
or improvements can be found.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Well, I think that you know, over time, there have
been a number of changes to the legislation. There also
been a number of changes to how this particular program
has been administered right, you know who where that particular
program fell, whether it was under the department, under the
health authorities, back to back to its own department, and

(21:40):
the iterations that have I guess that have emerged over time.
But we've also seen that there have been changes in
terms of training. You know, Initially, there's always been a
need for partnerships between social workers and the police and
you know, and the investigation is done jointly. There's been

(22:01):
some movement away from that. You know, there was some
movement away from that, I should say, and that's we've
come back again to having that joint investigative process where
both the social workers and the police officers had the
same training, because I think there was a move away
from one type of training that the social workers and

(22:22):
police officers were receiving. The police, you know, looked at
another type of training, but social workers weren't included in
that training. That since changed and there's been a recommitment
to have social workers and police officers trained at the
same time. But keep in mind that we didn't have
you know, the scope that we were asked to look

(22:44):
at by government was very specific to you know, the
services provided through child protection, child welfare services. We didn't
have that ability to look at the other partnerships that
are involved in this, you know, this complex type of investigation.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
At the time when this report was instigated by a
Premier Fury, you know, there were calls for the potential
for public inquiry so that law enforcements role could be included,
and the department's role could be included, and the training
for social workers and the duty to report. Do you
think there's another level of examination required here, Karen, Well,
I think.

Speaker 3 (23:22):
That it's we've only been able to look at one
particular aspect. That's not to say that we can't look
at other aspects, but there are also other other things happening.
You know, there is there is the transformation of policing
process that's happening, and you know, they could certainly look

(23:43):
at that the policing side. You know, I think that
there's always room for, you know, examination of the processes
that are in place.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Were you able to look at things like the continuity
of care and the consistency of care because not every
setting will be the same with the same level of
training on experience, whether it be social workers or otherwise.
So do we have a disconnect with consistency or the
continuum of care.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I'm not sure about a disconnect from a policy perspective,
because I think that's straightforward, that's you know, standard across
the board. There's one policy and and everybody should be
following this. There are some inconsistencies when you talk about
individual regions, but that's impacted by so many things. It's

(24:33):
not just you know, the continuity of care. It's the
number of people who are providing that care. It's the
number of availability, the availability of social workers. Do we
have enough social workers in the system. Do we have
enough service providers in the system? Is there enough services
for to support children through health and mental health services?

(24:55):
It's a it's a complex matter, you know, it's very
complicated when comes to providing appropriate, timely services to a
child who has been victimized.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
And now that you mentioned mental health, you know, plenty
of conversations there. You know, we've been referencing Australia's move
to bad social media use for youth under the age
of sixteen. We do know that things like Kids' Health
Phone have seen a huge surge in people calling their line.
I believe it was January February this year, there was
a release from your office based on a study that
began in March. I believe at twenty twenty four, access

(25:28):
to service for children and youth is a little different
conversation than access to services for adults.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Where are we Well, we're still completing our mental health review. Well,
we expect that that report will come out in early spring.
But we have some challenges. There's no question about, you know,
the services that are available to children, the ability to

(25:56):
access those mental health services, and that's across sup board,
from community services to the more cute care services that
you would see in hospitals and through the Department of
Health and Community Services. There are significant challenges that children
and young people are facing in order to access We're

(26:16):
talking about huge way times. We're talking about times, huge
way times for assessments. We're talking about continuity of care.
You know, can a child see somebody over a period
of time the same person or through like through doorways,
they seeing a different person every time they require, you know,
help with a mental health issue. The availability is very

(26:41):
concerning to my office and to the to the staff
that I have, But I can also say that when
I speak to you know, social workers in the system
with respect to child protection. They are also extremely concerned
about the services and the availability of services to help
their clients.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I mean in some of that, you know, it's an
interesting conversation child protection services. We hear that social workers
who are experiencing are off the seniority list. Of course,
the most traumatic file Carrie is child protective Services. Consequently,
they move on and the newest graduates, the newest social workers,
end up taking on the most difficult traumatic files. Is
there a concern there?

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Of course there's a concern.

Speaker 4 (27:21):
There's always a concern.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
I'm not suggesting for one minute that the skill level
is not there. I think that social workers are you know,
when they come out of university, you know, they don't
have the experience, and that's always a concern. You know,
what is it that they require in terms of training,
in terms of supports, in terms of supervision for these cases.

(27:47):
You're right, they are very complex and there's always there's
always been a conversation around how do we get you know,
the most experienced social workers to do this work. And
I don't have the answers to that, but I do
know that those are conversations that are ongoing within the department.
The department is very much aware of the fact that

(28:07):
you know, there is a need for the most experienced
and to be able to provide case management with these cases.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
I don't know if this is a fair question or
whether or not a senior value wick, but you know,
like many issues that are complicated, and these are complicated
conversations is whether or not all the collaboration at the
government level is happening, you know, so whether it be
between the Department of Education, Health and Community Services, the
Department of Justice and others that are all working towards
the same outcomes or hopeful goals. Do you think that

(28:38):
we do a good job with collaboration amongst the different departments,
because this is just not a Department of Health Community
Services conversation, or a.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Department of Social Supports or well being convivation sure, or
a Department of Justice conversation.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
You're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
We do need the solid partnerships when it comes to
ensuring that the voices and the right of children are
protected and advanced and that children indeed are you know,
received the best service. I think that, you know, collaboration
can always be improved upon, and I'm extremely hopeful and
pleased with the response to this particular report because it

(29:19):
has injected a bit of you know, a bit of
energy into that collaborative process. We're seeing that, I'm hearing that,
you know, in the next within the next ten days,
I'm going to be sitting at a meeting with you know,
the partners that are you know, involved in the protection
of children on a wider scale to talk about what

(29:41):
everybody's role is and how we can do that conversation
and how we can do that collaboration better.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
And I think that's you know, very much like a
lot of government operations, you know. I know, bureaucrats are busy.
I know the ministers are busy and hyper focus on
their own portfolio. But sometimes if the left hand doesn't
know what the right hand is doing, then policies don't
dovetail operation and access to supports. Maybe you are falling
short simply because the conversations and collaboration that may be
aren't as fulsome as they should be. Karen, any final

(30:09):
thoughts before we let you.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Go, Well, I think that's the role of this office, Patty,
is to make sure those conversations are happening, and we
work hard every day to engage those particular entities to
not only speak to us, but to speak to each other.
You have to, you know, you have to be sharing
the right information at the right time in order to

(30:30):
be providing the child the best possible service that they
not only need, but they have a right to.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
One hundred percent, Karen, I appreciate your time in the
work you're doing. Thank you, Thank you so much. Versing
to you by bys Karen Grave Child newth Advocates here
in the province. That's going to break in when we
come back. We'll talk about the most risk and physical update,
which didn't paint a very good snapshot at this moment
in time. Then we're going to talk fairies, and then
whatever you want to talk about. Don't go away. Welcome

(31:02):
back to the show. Let's go Line number two. Jeff,
you're on the air.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
Good morning, Patty.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
How are you doing? Okay? How you doing?

Speaker 6 (31:11):
Listen?

Speaker 5 (31:11):
In a couple of weeks ago, during that concert, we stand
guard again. We don't need it, you know, like through
the text line, you know he had to I can't
even remember. I think he just took two, three, four
five or something like that.

Speaker 6 (31:28):
Donate.

Speaker 5 (31:29):
Anyways, we did it. A couple a couple of our
phones at the house, and last week I got a
phone call and the guy introduced himself saying he was
with you know, he noticed that we donated. But after
that if the phone with him, because I kind of
felt a bit like I donated this through talks, not
through voice, So I suppose I kind of thought that

(31:50):
was the end of that. He basically was calling me
soliciting for more donations than one, to tell me more
about what they did, you know, through you know, maybe
whatever it was, Red Cross or whatever it is.

Speaker 7 (32:04):
Anyway, I just thought.

Speaker 5 (32:05):
It's kind of strange, and then I got off the phone.
A few days later, I was thinking, I don't suppose
that was a scam and that I got called for
because I've done this on other situations and never got
a phone call, you know, a week later or maybe
two weeks later or whatever it is.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
So what exactly did the phone calls? What did the
caller actually say, Well, he.

Speaker 5 (32:27):
Started to introduce himself, you know, and that he probably
I guess he threw me off, and he probably he
probably was with the Red Cross. I have no idea
that I think that's who was collecting his money, right
or organizing.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, they're part of the organization. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:44):
Yeah, So basically he was he wanted to talk to
me about other programs that they are doing right now,
on other things, the other things they are involved in.
But like I said, I just kind of felt like
I did this through a text and now I'm getting
a phone call to see if this looking for more money.
I guess, you know I would. I wouldn't say he's
calm me, just to tell me all about other things

(33:06):
he does. I'm sure I was going to end with
but I kind of ended the conversation abruptly because I
felt like this kind of strange. I donate it through text,
and now I'm getting a phone call. And I know,
I know, once you put your phone number over the line,
you know they got your number. But I still just
felt anyway, I just felt it was strange, and I
just wondered if I was being scammed or trying to

(33:28):
be scammed because I didn't carry on with the conversation.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, I mean, it's a fair concern, isn't it, Because
every time you turn your head now there was a
scammer in my phone or in my email. So at
that point, like just for the general listener. If you
get that type of call, even if you're interested in
one of the programs out there talking about in a
fundraising opportunity, you can simply say I'll consider it and
then just go to the website or go to where
you know you can verify before you make a donation

(33:53):
versus over the phone. Yeah. Look what I when I
thought the subject time was going to result in is
you made it nation to the Red Cross and then
all of a sudden another charitable organization has called you're
looking for money. Because that's a concern that I think
many people share, is if I make a text donation
or a donation via email, some organizations out there are

(34:14):
selling your contact information. It's extremely valuable. All of a
sudden you end up on someone else's call list.

Speaker 5 (34:20):
And that's one hundred percent because, like I said, the
guy to call kind of threw me off. I was like, sure,
I just did this for text, not like I was
actually talking to someone and gave out my credit card number,
my banking information. I did it through a text that
if you do if you did this, you've got charge
ten dollars for our cases, twenty dollars to your phone bill, right,

(34:42):
which was which is fine, but I just kind of
felt a bit strange that somebody is calling me after
I did something that was wasn't human related. You know,
I know there is the human connection, but so anyway,
I just wanted to put it out there. I guess that,
you know, I guess it's a good time of the
year when everybody trying to get something.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I eat, no question, and some of it's legit and
most of it isn't. I appreciate the times for wanting Jeff,
anything else you want to say.

Speaker 8 (35:08):
Yes, I did.

Speaker 5 (35:09):
Actually I wanted to mention about I called a couple
of weeks ago, but I'm after seeing a lot of
shoplifters and everything. But I just wanted to say this,
and you can correct me if I'm wrong. We're not
doing anything about it. So two Sundays ago or three
Sundays and two Sundays ago, I was going in the
Best Buy outcome this couple with one of those electric scooters.

(35:31):
They're about almost two thousand dollars to text and everything goes
on it if not more, and they just walked off
and no one stopped.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Them, so you know for sure they didn't purchase it.
They stole it.

Speaker 5 (35:43):
Oh yes, I know because the staff were taking their
pictures and I know it was a little conversation.

Speaker 6 (35:48):
In the foyer about it. And I know we're not supposed.

Speaker 5 (35:50):
To do anything, but Patty, I thought about this, that
situation that was very sad and not a great comparison.
If someone didn't do something about that shooter down in
Australia a couple of weeks or the weekend passed or
a few days past, if someone didn't stop, and imagine
how much more damage that is? Like are we going
to keep on going where nobody ever does anything about anything.

(36:13):
That's what I'm basically asking. And as I said, it's
not a great comparison, but if someone don't do something,
then nothing ever gets done and these people just keep
on going and stealing. And one hundred percent it was
a theft of whatever, two thousand dollars scooter just well to.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Say, fair enough, it's an interesting conversation, isn't it. So
if it was my company, my business, and when I
trained my staff, you know, inside of customer service and
to understand the product and all that, at some point
I also feel like I owe it to them to
not put them in harm's way. So who knows who
you're going to encounter, or whether or not that person
is going to be willing to break out a knife

(36:55):
or whatever the case would be. So I understand why
staff have been told, Hey, let us, as a court predentity,
take care of it. Here's the process. Take their picture,
if you can see them get into a car, take
a picture of the license plate, and let law enforcement takeover,
because who knows who the hell is doing the stealing.
Now I know it's the same thing. Yeah, dangerous.

Speaker 5 (37:14):
I felt like running over just saying, bus, you're not
you're not taking this off the tarnal lot. But then
I'm like, I'm just an in by sender. But also
so was the guy that saved a lot more lives
than were lost Sunday Pass. So you're there is a
comparison to it.

Speaker 8 (37:31):
Not.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
I know, it's different when there's a life, when there's
life being when there's lives being taken.

Speaker 6 (37:37):
But I'm just thinking how much it's just.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
Just the way the world's going to be. We're just
going to collect carry on and no one does anything
about anything anymore.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, And the end result of that is people who
were criminals in the first place, they're just going to
become more and more brazen. And for folks who think,
well there are no consequences, maybe for the first time ever,
they'll take a five finger discount from whatever shop they're in. Yeah,
it's a problem.

Speaker 5 (38:00):
I just I don't know anyway, that's all my most
just mind blown.

Speaker 8 (38:05):
For it that way.

Speaker 2 (38:06):
I completely understand where you're coming from, and I appreciate
your time this morning. Jeff, thanks for calling.

Speaker 5 (38:11):
I hope you have a very great Christmas.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
Patty, same to you. Take care. Yeah, I mean it
feels like, for instance, if one of your buddies got
caught stealing at best Buy and the six foot two
and forty pound customer service agent took you to task,
you know what I mean, then maybe just maybe people
would be low to steal from best Buy. But that said,

(38:34):
you know, many people working in that industry probably have
zero interest in the physical altercation with someone who's stealing
from the company. And I totally understand that. If it
was my business, i'd simply say, look, here's what we're doing.
We're taking pictures, we're going to try to get license plates,
and we'll let the cops take over. As opposed to
putting my employees in harm's way because of, you know,

(38:55):
trying to stop someone from ceiling it. In this case
of school, even though it's very valuable, it's probably not
worth someone getting the hell knocked out of them by
some potentially violent shoplifter. Let's get a break in when
we come back. Fiscal update issues, go don'k away, Welcome
back to the show. Let's go linumber. Three second more
to the NDP member versusent. John Center is leader of
the party. That's Jim Den and good morning, Jim, you're

(39:15):
on the air.

Speaker 9 (39:16):
Good morning, Patty, thanks for having me on problem. First
of all, Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you, your
family and the Vocem family, to my constituents and the
people of the province. I hope this season is going
to be indeed, Miriam Bright for sure, and the very
same to you and yours, Jim. Before I I I
was calling in about the physical update, but I just

(39:36):
want to have a quick comment on I was listening
to your conversation with the child Youth Advocate and it's
an interesting discussion because it's only in the last couple
of weeks that I had you know, it's on bring
a concern to me about potential abuse of children and
care that they were aware of in a place where

(39:58):
they work. Now, not often I get those specific kinds
of questions across the our concerns coming in directly to
me as a teacher. I was very clear as to
what we had to do. But it was an interesting
situation where I was doing, okay that because of the
details you're doing, report to the police, child youth as

(40:20):
could see us, or the Family and Wellbeing Department. In
the end, I wrote contact all three. But it's certainly
when it comes to it, I think maybe even for politicians,
we might need some clarity on that. But I wanted
two of the things that I think you reference about

(40:42):
the enough social work and the number as we have
enough social workers and experienced social workers, because to your point,
a lot of these cases are extremely difficult. And even
when I was passing this on events the police took
it on. I'm still wondering, okay, what's happened since it
has just been looked into. Not taking anything away from

(41:04):
the police, but you know, it's something that weighs on
my mind and the other I think it's certainly with
I think what the issue was brought up was about
collaboration because the one thing I learned and as a teacher,
it wasn't just on the school. It's party, it's part
of the justice system, it's part of health, it is
probably well, uh you know, child youth and Family services

(41:25):
and so on and so forth. So it's it's uh,
it's it's good to be talking about it. But at
the same time it comes down to in that report,
I think it talked about basically for t when children
a care the government is in essence the parent and
has a duty to protect those children as if you
know they were they were their children anyway. That's I

(41:48):
just it was. It is a conversation that still needs
to be had and hopefully there's gonna be some clarity
here as to and the sports that are needed to
make sure that children are in the looked.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
After, no question, but even more so when we talk
about children or youth at risk, the most vulnerable in
the setting that is not their home with their parents
or caregivers or grandparents or what have you. So there's
a lot to that conversation. I'm looking forward to speaking
with her again after she has the meeting with the
so called stakeholders or partners at the government level.

Speaker 9 (42:16):
Appreciate it anyway. Onto the fiscal update, it's we sent
through it. I as I said at that time, it's
sort of a sort of like the arts has gone
out of our fiscal update with no with no real
plan that I could see as to have put the
errors back in it, and I in some ways I'm

(42:38):
a little I went through this can go back to
the campaign and when we put forward our platform, I
guess we let me back up a bit further. Whatever
mess we're in in this province is not to do
with the NDPS because we've not been in government. But
this is success of governments on both sides and dealing

(42:59):
with it with the issues. But we put forward a
budget that we tried to be a platform that was
responsible as balanced, we're clarity, showed where we're getting the money.
We knew and this is the part where I'm going
with it. We knew when we sat in the House
of Assembly that there's a good chance that the physical
situation of the problem is a lot worse than that
the letting on. So it really bothers me that the

(43:23):
Liberals manipulated the the fiscal situation with the macco packs
and so on and so forth, or the tobacco settlement.
They knew what we're into. They were still making promises.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
The PCs really should have.

Speaker 9 (43:37):
Known that there's a good chance that that the situation
is a lot worse. And I think yet they're making
a lot of on cost of problems problems. So now
here we are in a fiscal update, and we know
a few things that stand out. Oil oil is volatile,
The price on oil is volatile. I don't know that's

(43:59):
a that sprounds for a long term plan, but we
should we should also be focusing on a transition to
more non two more renewable and sustainable, greener energy. And
I will give the PC some credit here and that
they're looking at the exploring offshore win. But for me,

(44:20):
I guess I've heard several of the messages, certainly about
spending smarter and about you know, the three pillars of uh. Well, well,
first of all, with spending smart, I'm trying to figure out, well,
what does that mean. I know that when I was
if I was in the front line as a teacher,
this usually translates into cuts. The other part of three

(44:42):
pillars about better healthcare, lower taxes and safer communities. Well,
that's a neat trick because you're wandering preproof services, yet
you're going to cut taxes at the same time. When
we were with talking to teachers about health plan, we
used to say, you know, you can have any health
plan you want if you're willing to pay for it,

(45:04):
And it comes down to it, you can't have it
both ways. But I do know we've got some serious
issues here that are going to have to be addressed.
And I'm concerned certainly with regards to families with children
who are looking for affordable childcare that's determining whether both
partners are able to work or one has to withdraw

(45:26):
from the workforce. We have food in security food. The
food prices inflation is going up astronomically compared to overall inflation.
And yet you just have to walk into any supermarket,
any place where food is being so you do have
security guards there that are visible the asset protection. You
also have undercovered people because I would assume that the

(45:50):
people are desperate and hungry and the food prices becacause
of unaffordable food prices that's being passed on to all
of us. Farm Macare is another one, there was such
an eat there was such an easy ask here that
if you want to address the future affordability of people,
they should be fighting tooth and nails be part of
this farmcare program. The Liberals should have done it when

(46:11):
they were there. They didn't. I don't understand it in
the problems with such high diabetes rates that we didn't
sign on to this as a way of reducing costs
on those who suffer from diabetes, but also hospital costs,
treatment costs, long term help cost and as for rural care,
rural care, I don't know what they're going to do

(46:32):
with hospitals. I was listening to I think the discussion
yesterday and another station about you know, what are we
going to do with the like hospitals and rural areas.
What's the plan to make sure that people in rural
areas have a healthcare? I had a gentleman call his
wife in Placentia, waiting an hour and forty five minutes

(46:55):
for an ambulance to arrive to take her to hospital
in town. She died. Uh, he could have driven the
town faster. So there's gotta be you know, there's gotta
be some I I guess if we're gonna spend smarter.
We gotta find out what the uh you know what
that means exactly, because I would as assume with the
the health Accord UH and the plans there to make

(47:18):
have a problems wide ambulance system, people are real are
are are depending on something al uh on a system
that's gonna make sure that they they and their loved
ones have access to that care. So there are big
issues here. But when I hear the determined like we're
gonna spend smarter, I'm not sure what that means it
it it concerns me, and I concerns me because I

(47:40):
don't know if there's a plan going forward uh or
if we're just going to see cuts and and if
it means more uh like when we got negotiations coming up,
and if that means that we're gonna be saying to
the people in the to our health professionals, to our
UH education professionals and so forth, that we may not

(48:01):
be able to give you what you want at a
time when we're trying to recruit and retain people.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
Yeah, Royal Health is going to depend Yeah, I don't
know what the plan is either. It would help if
we had you know, political parities willing to when the
WRINT is dropped to bring forward their cost and platform
so that we can have a careful evaluation, especially when
you know new governments in the transition. Transition will find
out more and more information about the state of the
economy and the fiscal realities and that kind of stuff.

(48:28):
But Royal health will depend on staffing. Oil is going
to be interesting. It's under sixty bucks a borrow today.
There will be an offset given the Canadian dollar against
the American dollar, because of course we get paid in
American money. There's also going to be an increase in production,
so there may indeed find a offset on that front.
But I don't know how we're going to cut taxes,
increase spending and without increasing borrowing. I just don't necessarily

(48:52):
fully understand. And I wasn't surprised to hear the updated number,
and I don't know why anybody pretends that they are
surprised to hear the updated number. And we were, you know,
reference to big tobacco stuff. Look, everybody knew that. So
I don't know how that factors in. But we are
absolutely looking forward to having Minister Party on the show.
We only have a few shows left before we take
our Christmas break, so I don't know if we can

(49:12):
get it before then, but everybody has questions and he
knows that, and I'm sure he'll be willing to join
us on the show. Jim, I got to get to
the news anything.

Speaker 8 (49:19):
Else quick, look very quickly.

Speaker 9 (49:21):
Why I think it's important with the Churchill falls at
MU that all parties have been brought in on this,
because really this is an important deal that we get
right and we don't jeopardize it. But at the same
time we make sure we maximize the benefits for new
Poland labor again, transparency, openness and bring all parties in
on us.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Appreciate the time, Jim, thank you having nice holidays, Merry Christmas.
Good Bye, Okay, bye bye, Jim. Did that's a good
breaking for the news. Don't go away, welcome back. Let's
go right Number four, Mike, you're on the air.

Speaker 10 (49:57):
Rety very Joel thing with the Faeries still on the
goal and I don't seem like say improve it yet.
I still got face in the PCs. But I think
this now purchasing of a new vessel is ahead of
what they should be doing. Before they do anything, they
have to get rid of the management there that was

(50:20):
put there, handpicked by the previous ADM that Fred Hunting
got rid of. He knew how bad this man was,
but these people were hand picked by that.

Speaker 6 (50:33):
ADM.

Speaker 10 (50:35):
And it wasn't for the benefit of the fairies or
anything else. There's hundreds of millions of dollars wasted. They've
basically destroyed all the fairies. They don't know what they're doing,
they're not qualified to be doing the jobs that they're doing,
and this was all got to be looked at before
you know, you're getting any more fairies than that.

Speaker 7 (50:53):
Whatever.

Speaker 10 (50:54):
They need a team there to properly run the fairies
that they got and to look at the future. But
they're just going by another ferry and give it to
those people to destroy again. It's totally ridiculous. They double
the price of the new two new fairies. And then
there's the Hayes mcgoyazac and the Gray Sparks in that.
That's another story where around the world they couldn't buy

(51:17):
vessels because people around the world don't want to do
with anything to do with the New Plank government. They
had two vessels and when they found there it was
a New Plank government, they refused to sell them to them,
so their reputation and everything else with everybody is the
worst of anywhere in the world. And until the PCs

(51:37):
do something about this, and about the Chief Procurement Officer,
who's got numerous reports there of pos given out after
the invoice has gone in, making people illegally working on
these fairies where they don't have pos, pos given out
to contractors that can't do the work, and then they
just turn it over to other contractors, exorbited prices, kickbacks.

(52:04):
There's everything going on there that this whole system needs
to be revamped. The Controller General put out a report
that was false lawyers about the Bellchruster, But what do
you do then? You won't do nothing about it. But
all of this stuff keeps.

Speaker 11 (52:21):
Going on and on and on.

Speaker 10 (52:23):
The odor to General. The only thing the unor the
General does is that when she's pushed, she'll do an
investigation that we all know the outcome beforehand, that we
knows it was all wrong. And between her and the
Controller General and the Chief Picureent Officer, they're letting those
people away with wasting our taxpayers' dollars, destroying our economy.

(52:47):
And everything else. And if the PCs, the PC's having
to look at the total picture where the problem is still.
But the biggest problem is that all the management, one
of them knows what they're doing. They're incompetent. They don't
have the training to do it. When you look at
the other companies like Kinship or Woodwards or any of

(53:10):
these people, they get all their vessels, no talk of
them being broke down and broke down all the time
and everything else, and they got all of the qualified people.
When management positions to do the work, probably train marine engineers,
but here no the marine engineers are board the boat.
The boat ties up down, comes with others that don't

(53:31):
have a clue about nothing, and starts running it and
all the engineers can do sit back and do nothing,
and it's got there's no harmony in the work. But
there there's only resemblment between manergship and the crews. And
didn't take a look at the at the flanders there
now what they're doing. They just put it, gave it
a company fifty thousand dollars without tendors to do repair

(53:53):
lights when the chain lockers are rusted out. They all
know it. They're doing major repairs onto it that they
don't even know if the hole is gone. I see
flakes rust on her inside in the holes two feet
square that you couldn't lift. She grossed them from the
inside out. And they don't even know the state of
the vessel. They never got any shots. They're on their

(54:14):
outs with the dockyard because they want companies there. Now
they're given the contract to another company to then't pay
the dockyard. Like, what's going on here is totally totally
a waste of money in proper management. The whole thing
needs to be completely looked at and readone.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Anyway, it's an interesting it's an interesting point to make
about Woodwards vessels, the age of and how frequently they
are out of service versus the provincial interprovincial ferry fleet.
Fair point.

Speaker 10 (54:51):
Yeah, Well, like I know all the other businesses and
that and stuff to faeries, Like I had eighty customers
when I was at it, and the person who took
over my business and that there, I think he's got
to he had customers all in the boats down around
they're going continuously and these bigger companies, none of these

(55:12):
companies want anything to do with the companies that the
government's dealing with. They're not reputable, they're you know, it's
just totally ridiculous there of what's going on, and they're
either completely idiots and stupid or they're undertake. They're getting kiddecks.
There's something there I moral and unjustified. And what they're

(55:35):
doing and the money that they're spending five million dollars
do a refit, they could have been done for two
million dollars, changed out, changed out. The only reason why
the engines were changed out is because the company said
that they couldn't rebuild them. But there's dozens of other
companies around the world that are going everywhere repairing these engines.
They could have been rebuilt in a month. And not

(55:58):
only that, the engines were work perfectly. All the management
had to do is go to Transport Canada and say, look,
we'll get regular own inspections done, we'll keep regular checks
on the engines and that and stuff so that we'll see,
you know, four see any future problems of what's happening
are going wrong with them. No, instead of that be
changed out engines for five years, totally unheard of, totally ridiculous,

(56:22):
and they're getting away with it. Why are they getting
away with it? How many people are on the take
or how many people are involved.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
In all this?

Speaker 10 (56:30):
And you know it's just a waste of the textpayers
dollars so far as I concerned. Right now. Yeah, a
new vessel may be needed, but does not need is
there as much as what the new management needs with
the proper people in there to advise the government. Right now,
the PC's got nobody there to advise them. They're going
to take the advice of the same people who've destroyed

(56:52):
the furies and there he made all the bad decisions
so far to put the PCs.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
In uh.

Speaker 6 (56:59):
Well in a difficult.

Speaker 10 (57:00):
Light or whatever, you know, Fred Hutton give a new
false statements and the press about the Faery system and
about Truster and all the rest of it, where they
totally destroyed and throughout a million dollars and nobody will listen,
Nobody will do anything about it, Nobody the author to general.

(57:21):
These people that are in the power to protect us,
they're not doing their jobs. And you know they need
to be brought the task and the PCs are going
to be given the opportunity now to do something about it.
If they don't, there's something going to be done legally
or whatever. About the things that's done and the money

(57:42):
and the decisions that were made to do all this stuff,
one way or another is going to come to a hit.
So I trust the PCs so far to actually look
at it and give them little bit of time to
look at it responsibly and take a look at the
whole pitch. Sure they've got to fill a herd on
there now to avoid I'm not sure what his title is,

(58:05):
but I was talking to him last week about it
and a lot of stuff that I told him. He
said he's been told by numerous people. Everybody got the
same story, and it's basically that the management there is
in Capital they don't know what they're doing. They're not
working there for the people, they're not working for the
tech player. They're working there for theirselves and what they
can get out of it. And you know, something is

(58:28):
something has to be done, and it will be done.
But whatever's going to be done through politics or through
the legal process, we're going to have to wait and see.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
We will. You know, the last time we spoke with
Minister Patton, of course, it was all about the reacent's
announcement about twenty four seven snow clearing. But this file
is absolutely on my list for the next issues to
discuss with the minister. I appreciate the time, Mike, thanks
for calling.

Speaker 10 (58:50):
Yeah, well the minister. We were talking to him before
in communication before the election. Now since the election, I
can't get ahold of them.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
We can, we'll get them good. Thanks.

Speaker 10 (59:00):
Hey, thank you for listening to me. Mary, Christen, you
and yours.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
And everybody same dupe, all the best, Yeah, all right,
all right. Earlier the week, we had a call about
one particular home on the south Side Road. That's what
this next call is about, Dave. So you know, it
was the issue of you know, there's two units in
the same edifice. One is in great state to prepare,
the other not so much. Huge proud Bill wants to

(59:23):
talk about that, Jeffson the Q to talk about the
MoU and then whatever you want to talk about, talk away,
Welcome back, let's go line five. Bill, you around the Yes, Yeah,
and I.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
Was talking to you on the twelve, I think that
was Friday, and and yeah, so like I wanted to
talk about that house on the south Side Road because
I was listening to your program earlier this week and
I had some information on about it. But I first
wanted to pick up on some of the points you

(59:53):
made on our last call.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Are we going to talk about the south side of
the house on the south side road?

Speaker 4 (59:58):
And yeah, yeah, I had some after I after I
follow up on the some of the points I was
making on Friday you made. You made some comments, and
I wanted to follow up on those because you said, uh,
well you so like a I maintained that keep right
accept the pass and the utter ring road is a myth.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Are we doing this again today?

Speaker 7 (01:00:21):
Why?

Speaker 4 (01:00:21):
What do you Why are you trivializing this issue?

Speaker 8 (01:00:26):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:00:26):
I mean, yeah, you said keep right accept the pass.
You called it a thought process to safely navigate a
multi lane road.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
I think that. I think what you promote us, you know,
being able to just stick in the left lane as
long as you want. I think that makes it more dangerous.

Speaker 4 (01:00:41):
No, but that's that's not really that's you're misrepresenting there
what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:00:44):
No, that was just my opinion what I said.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
No, it's the overhead signs tells me that that that
I should be, that I could be there in the
in the left lane, and it's a and and that's
that's the man that was the original traffic management line
for that for that highway. And then the other point
you So, I think I think you're right. It's it's
a thought is right now, it's it's a thought process

(01:01:09):
of safety navigated a multi layer road because the left
train now is at the facto fast lane. And I
don't think that was every intention of that.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Of that Here it is from law enforcement. There is
no law prohibiting driving in the left lane of a
double lane highway, provided the left lane vehicles traveling at
the postal speed limit. However, roadways are designed to allow
slower moving vehicles remain in the right lane and slightly
faster moving vehicles to pass them on the left. Those
who are not passing on the left lane are not
using the lane for its intended purpose and risk creating

(01:01:39):
unfavorable roadway interactions.

Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
Well that's not true. Well it is, no, it's not,
because that's that's Section one hundred of the Highway Traffic
Acts and section one. Section one hundred of the Traving
Traffic Act says. That says that when the sign is posted,
when the signs section J and section K, so you're

(01:02:02):
taking that, you're taking that out of context. He says, Uh,
this is a when there's a sign to tell you
that that faster slower, uh situation than you could do it.
It says, he's right here Section one hundred and one J,
where traffic control device directs slow moving traffic to use

(01:02:23):
the designated lane driving slowly, you shall use that lane only.
That sign does not exist on the and that sign
does not exist in the outer ring road. So that's
taken out of context. That's not right. That's one on
what's called one on one J in the Highway Traffic Act,
and it doesn't apply to the outer ring road. The
overhead signs are why it applies to the outer ring road.

(01:02:48):
Are you still there?

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Yeah? So you we had someone on who was actually
involved in installing those signs talking about to being a
navigational tool. You don't believe him, even though he was
involved in the process. I just told you what I
just told you what the cops have to say about.
You don't believe them are either, So that you can be.

Speaker 4 (01:03:05):
That's misinformation because you didn't you omitted the part about
the fact what that vendor is a sign when when
the sign instructs you to it says we're a traffic
controlled a sign direct slow moving traffic to use then
a lane. And that occurs after you after you come
out of Whitburn, and they had those signs up and
they're called is the slower faster? So essentially that's that's

(01:03:28):
not correct. But my point is is that I think
made the way that that that road is intended to
UH to operate is and and nobody in the part
will admit that it's it's meant to have a fast lane,
and but what we got there is essentially a fast
lane because people who are driving at the speed limits

(01:03:49):
aren't welcome in that lane. And and for for a
police advise me to drive said I'm allowed to stay
there if I'm driving that one hundred, that's illogical because
if the weather can conditions are are poor, then I'm
going to drive slower than that. It's it's it's not right.
You know, there's I would say, at least forty thousand

(01:04:09):
cars per day use that highway.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
I have no work. And the idea why you're promoting
unsafe passage on the uttering road not no.

Speaker 4 (01:04:16):
No, I'm not. I say what's happening now is unsafe conditions.
I think the original intention is that both lanes are
driving lanes, and if that was the case, then the
right lane or transition lane where people are exiting and
entering would would not be would not be blocked. Okay,
so are afraid use the left lane?

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
I've just this conversation up there, you know, Okay, enough
of that? Can you you want to make a comment
about south side.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
Cutting off the bait?

Speaker 12 (01:04:46):
This?

Speaker 4 (01:04:46):
I mean, this reminds me of the song that Wayne
Chalk and the and then Buddy Watch named the Other
Fellows who is called soft water Joys, and it says
some go to where the buildings reached to meet the
cloud for warm and gentle people turned to swarming, faceless crowds.

Speaker 8 (01:05:04):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
That's that's the situation that's being created up that up
there with this whole notion that there's a fast lane. Okay,
it's unsafe. And and here's another point where it's actually
I did the math and it's a simple calculation. The
uttering road is twenty kilometers long. If you drive at

(01:05:24):
one hundred kilometers an hour, it's ten minutes. If you
drive it one ten, it's eleven minutes if you drive
it one twenty. If you drive it one twenty, Noland,
it's it's the other way around. If you drive it
one hundred is twelve minutes. If you drive it one ten,
it's eleven minutes. If you drive it one twenty, it's
ten minutes. Yeah, and so that's that's the difference. So

(01:05:46):
everybody's getting all emotional because you know, they can't drive
at the speed that they want. They feel they can
do one hundred and ten or one hundred and twenty.
Then livement's one hundred. That's the law.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Yeah, But now now you're playing mind reader. Okay, so
you've made these points repeatedly here on the show. Is
there anything else you'd like to talk about?

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
Okay, but those are the points I say. Okay, So
on the south Side Road, yes, okay, south Side Road
was and they talked about a particular house down there,
and they said it was like a couple of hundred
years old stuff like you know that that. I just
did some some looking up.

Speaker 8 (01:06:21):
On that place.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
And it's a beautiful house there, two of them are.
There's a duplex here, and that's in the old Riverhead
neighborhood of the West End. And and so when that
house was built or something that was on on on
the city's first park, first public park. It was the
Promenade Park, and and it got filled in over the

(01:06:44):
years and and another thing. And so it was probably
one of the one of the nicest parts of the
city back back in those days. When with the park
opened in eighteen forty seven or a government merchant to
created it, there was a bit of controversy.

Speaker 8 (01:06:59):
For it was a beautiful part of the city and.

Speaker 4 (01:07:04):
And so you know, over the years now it's become
almost like you know, like the armpiads of the city.
He's just got a big freight air there and stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
The concern was that one side of the duplex is
not being kept up and consequently there's an electrical connection issue,
a rat issue, and I saw issue that was his
concern as the owner of the side that is well kept.
So that's what we're talking about that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
I'm just addingitude like about that particular property. And you know,
like I wrote an article about that neighborhood years ago,
and uh, and I learned you think, so, like I
was just following up on this and uh. And the
other thing about that house was one there was two
people that lived in that house were volunteers in the
First World War one was the father. He went in

(01:07:47):
the in forestry and the son was killed in Mount Hammel.
So you know, there's pretty interesting stuff going on in
the in that neighborhood or was it was in that
neighborhood and that old all right, rip heard neighborhood of
the West End.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Appreciate the time. Thanks belt, Okay, thank you, take care,
Bye bye, Jeff, you're next, don't away, Welcome back. Let's
go line number one. Jeff here on the air.

Speaker 6 (01:08:15):
Hey, Patty, it's great talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Happy to have you on the show. What's on your mind?

Speaker 11 (01:08:19):
Well, first of all, I love the show and I
don't think anyone's ever done it better than yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Appreciate that.

Speaker 6 (01:08:26):
Let's go with the MoU yep. So it's been in
the news lately. The Liberals have been in the media
putting some pressure on and I just had a few
thoughts about the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Fire away.

Speaker 6 (01:08:39):
So the first thing is, as we both know, this
MOUs is probably the biggest issue facing New from Line
right now, and that has the potential to provide a significant,
stable source of desperately needed revenue. And so no doubt
about it, we need it. And we're in a bit

(01:09:00):
of a desperate situation. But when you're in a desperate situation,
terrible time to negotiate.

Speaker 11 (01:09:06):
Actually, and up to this point, I think the Liberals
have done just a terrible job in presenting this to
the public. And just a couple of things for background.
They appointed a three person panel and give those guys
non disclosure clause. Mike Wilson, one of the three, resigned

(01:09:28):
in protest. They kept that hidden and then they wouldn't
release his resignation letter. So all of that, of course
creates suspicion in the public. And they went to the
polls and they took a novel Schlacken, and I think
the MoU was probably one of the main issues that

(01:09:48):
the Liverpools were defeated on. And so now they're in
the news saying that the PCs are going to ruin
the whole thing, that the deadline is April. So the
first thing I'd like to say is, like this April
deadline I feel as an arbitrary date used as a

(01:10:10):
pressure tactic, and its imaginary, And I just wonder how
you feel about.

Speaker 6 (01:10:18):
The April date.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
Yeah, I mean, there's certainly nothing hard fast that we
need to be worried about insofar as if we don't
have definitive agreements by the thirtieth of April, then everything
goes by the wayside. I don't think that's the case.
And whether or not it was designed as a pressure
or tactic, I don't know. Was it a negotiated date
between the two provinces, kind of feels like it. And
there is wiggle room here because as of now, if

(01:10:41):
government changes hands in Quebec, which it looks like it will,
then this is probably going away in full, regardless of
people like it or all of it. So we've got time.
They're not obligated by a lot to go to the
polls before or until October, so there are some months
in between April and October where this can still get satisfied,
if it ever does. And I mean, I just go
back to the date was announced, because there was a

(01:11:04):
lot of field good numbers when you talk about two
d and twenty five billion dollars flowing into the province,
what have you. We then learned a lot of details
that were not part of them, of course the glitzy,
glossy news conference at the rooms. But had there been
a different tactic chosen buy the Liberals at that time,
and even if they just did what the independent panel
did because they brought in power advisor with JP Morgan,

(01:11:25):
Chase and some other entities. Had that been the case
at the time for the Liberal government, I think we'd
be thinking about this differently. We just would because people say,
Okay Lebla in his evaluation of Muscraft file said any
couple of expenditor over fifty million dollars requires an independent review.
Had they done that as opposed to political appointees, I
think we would began in a much different place of
having a much different conversation.

Speaker 11 (01:11:48):
I don't disagree with any of that, and I fully
agree with the mess they made of it, right from
the moment that Andrew Furry theatrically tore up the blank
sheet of paper pretending it was the existing contract. I
got to tell you when that happened on TV, I
cringed because I don't respond to those type of theatrics
and pageantry. I find that they are always a thin

(01:12:11):
veil on something deeper, and I don't trust any of
that stuff. So the fact that the three person appointed
panel had one guy, Mike Wilson, resign and I listened
to the time he came on your program, and he
was on for several segments. I got that up on
the cloud and I listened to that two times through.

(01:12:33):
And so one of the liberals tactics now is to
try to discredit Mike Wilson or discredit Tony Wakem's new
appointed panel because it includes Mike Wilson. But actually I
don't know about Dennis Brown or what he has to
do with the MoU. I know Dennis Brown was kind
of the person who he had something to do with it.

(01:12:54):
I don't know if he was actually studying THEMOU or not.
But this guy, Mike Wilson was hand selected and he
had so many issues with the m OU that he.

Speaker 6 (01:13:04):
Had to bow out.

Speaker 11 (01:13:06):
Now he's back in, So if there's any improvements that
can be made to the MoU, I feel like he
would be a good person to contribute to the flaws
he sees. And I think it was a good move
by the PCs actually to put him back on.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Well, there's two carryovers him and Professor Holborn are background
the panel. One thing for sure is those two gentlemen
in particular hit the ground running, which is always helpful
if you've got a background understanding of the MoU before
this new panel is struck. That's helpful. The criticism that
I hear about mister Wilson is the exact same criticism
we heard about Dennis Brown. Dennis Brown said it was
a good deal before the panel was struck and he

(01:13:41):
was the chair. Mister Wilson has already said it's a
disaster for the province. Now, will the expanded scope offer
more information to have, mister Wilson, you know, start for
our pardon me, hit reset and just go in there
with a fresh look at it. I don't know. Human
nature is a funny thing, though, right. I don't know
what the outcome of this is going to be, and

(01:14:02):
I've read the terms of reference. This seems pretty sound
to me. At least we're now including all of the
risks associated with borrowing and different changes at the federal
government's level, and you know the elasticity of the market
regarding price. So I don't know where we go from here.
But you know, the criticism of Wilson is the same
criticism of Brown, which I think is not unfair. If
you've already said yay or nay, thumb up or thumb down,

(01:14:23):
then what's going to change your mind one way or
the other.

Speaker 11 (01:14:27):
Well, I think that Wilson can get in there and
at least find some clarity, because, like I told you,
I listened to his segments on your program two times
through ye he had a lot of really great He
exposed a lot of the MoU, a lot of ambiguity
within the MoU. Absolutely, perhaps all he needs is just
some clarification, for example, the kail. I don't want to

(01:14:48):
get into the weeds off what he said, but he's
going to, really, like a god with a bone now,
seek for clarification on some stuff. And at the end
of the day, you got to think that if Mike
Wilson comes around to saying, yes, I feel like this
can be given the green light, I'm going to have
a lot more confidence in it.

Speaker 5 (01:15:04):
Are you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Look, if Mike Wilson on this panel come back and
say this is a good deal and there's a mutual
benefit and we should proceed with definitive agreements, I'm going
to be perfectly fine with that.

Speaker 11 (01:15:16):
I'm going to be perfectly fine with it too. And
that's very telling, And I'd just like to wrap it
up here now with you on it. You know, in
the past, after the Dunderdale government, I voted Liberal and
I watched Dwight Ball's government languish and they were totally ineffective.

(01:15:36):
And then Andrew Fury stepped into the circle and I
actually voted for Andrew Fury for Leader and voted Liberal again.
And then I can't tell you the disappointment that I
have had in the Liberal government. It's hard to express.
I watched one scandal after another, and years gone by,

(01:16:00):
this province plunged into debt and every institution crumbling, while
the Liberal government for the past ten years have filled
their pockets like pirates. And I got to tell you,
like I can't believe that I'm here now somewhat supporting
the PCs. It blows my mind that I'm actually looking

(01:16:23):
at what the PCs are doing and feelings of hope.
Every single one of the Liberals, they just they have
shown a lack of integrity over the years that I
can't tell you my disappointment. And you know, I just
don't understand why, if you're an elected official, why do
you not want to do the very best? Why are

(01:16:46):
you all of a sudden just driven by self interest?
I don't understand that if I took that job, on
which I can't imagine i'd ever be elected. But if
I was an elected member of Newfoundland Legislature, I would
do everything my power to serve the people of Newfoundland
and to try to make Newfoundland.

Speaker 6 (01:17:05):
In Labrador a better place.

Speaker 11 (01:17:07):
I could never ever have a conflict of interest or
do anything underhanded. I don't know what makes the people
we elect. Why are we electing a certain type of
person over and over? I don't know what that is.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Well, i'll tell you a more piece of insight. Just
my opinion here is when people find out the hard
way is. Campaigning is, of course a tough thing to
execute properly, but compared to governing, it's a cakewalk. It's
easier to campaign than it is to govern. And I
think when people eventually get elected, especially if they take
on ministerial portfolios and or the desk in the eighth

(01:17:44):
floor of the Confederation Building, they find out very quickly,
uh oh, this is really difficult stuff. This is complicated stuff.
This is not about giving campaign speeches. This is about governing.
And consequently, you know, maybe it's the time it takes
to get up to speed the fortitude mentally and otherwise
to make difficult decisions and not be pandering to whichever

(01:18:07):
way the wind blows. So governing is hard and everyone
finds out the hard way. Final thoughts to you, Jeff
before we go Okay.

Speaker 11 (01:18:15):
Well, governing is hard, But how does it? What does
that have to do with a school being announced in
Andrew Fury's district without ever having done a study or
having ever having that allocates just appeared when he became premier.

Speaker 6 (01:18:29):
What does that have to do with what you said?

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
A full Well, I have.

Speaker 11 (01:18:32):
Hundreds of millions of dollars piece of infrastructure just appearing
in someone's district. What about the land sale that was
done down in the East End with Fred Hutton at
the Helm, How does that? I don't understand how that
has anything to do with governing. They all voted for themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
We spoke about every single one of those issues here
on this program.

Speaker 11 (01:18:51):
Oh yeah, I understand.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Yeah, And you know, like the concept of well, put
it this way, Andrew Fury made that announcement of regarding
a school in his district, but never at again, and
so I don't know what he got out of it politically,
And people say, well, he just built the school so
his kids can go. Dude, his kids aren't going to
that school. His kids are going to Saint Bounds. So
I'm not so sure what he gained. The whole announcement
about ken Mount Road extension and the site for the

(01:19:13):
new Saint Clair's Hospital. I mean, as soon as we
were told that was based on donated land, you knew
full well there was another shoe about to drop. And
then consequently it did. We had there was cheaper land
in the very same area that we could have bought,
but we didn't. So that was just that was just
so poorly executed and who knows what's behind it, but
that was ridiculous. Was the other one you mentioned.

Speaker 11 (01:19:37):
The East End? The land down the east End? Yeah,
I think Fred Harton's on. And then at the Cosby Group,
I think got the land back that was previously taken
from them by the government at market rate and they
bought it back for a fraction of the costs that
the government previously paid for them. And I think Fred
Haughton was in charge of Crown Lanes at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:58):
Yeah enough, so I was laying and the whole concept
of being so inexpensive is that there was no access
come on. You can buy a piece access that has.

Speaker 11 (01:20:07):
Nothing to do with being hard to govern, does a Patty, No,
it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
No, I'm talking about big picture stuff and deficit, you know,
the crafting of specific policies as opposed to the examples
that you brought for which we did not dodge either
one of those. Ever, we talked about them extensively on
this program. Jeff, once again, final thoughts to you, because
I do have to get code.

Speaker 6 (01:20:26):
That's it it, I got all my thought.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Appreciate your time.

Speaker 6 (01:20:29):
Get something nice for the wife now for Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
You knows I will. Thanks man, Bye bye. All right,
let's get a break and when we come back, Glenn,
you are next to talk about a fundraising campaign out
in Dildough, and then we're going to talk about criminal justice, healthcare,
whatever you want to talk about. Don't away. Welcome back,
Let's go Lineing number four. Good morning, Glenn, you're on
the air.

Speaker 7 (01:20:49):
Good morning, Patty, and how are you this morning?

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Doing well? Thank you? How about you fine?

Speaker 7 (01:20:53):
Thank you and a very merry criser to you and
to all yours that's involved in the Line show and
certainly your many years.

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Well, thank you very much. Leanna wish the same to
you and yours.

Speaker 7 (01:21:03):
I think I call in most every year about this time,
or I just feel the need to do so. Like
I'm a part of the established an Army Trinity based
South Core out in to Dildo, New harb area and
of course involved with the church for a many years there. Now,
we started off with a small food bank in the church,
had no intension. We built a new church about twenty

(01:21:24):
four twenty five years ago and never ever thought that
we would have to have a food bank there. But
we started a small room that we had for meetings.
We turned it into a food bank and over the
last year or so we had to close the room
because it got too small and open up a bigger
room for our food bank. And we thanked the Laura

(01:21:44):
that we have a lot of sponsors, a lot of
good many sponsors in the area that help out. And
but our food bank has grown in such a big
demand as this unimaginable. You know, we had no intension
in the beginning, and we've built a new church, but
it serves the people now very well. But it's always
a challenge. As I hear it on you on open
line and whoever you top there's a challenge to keep

(01:22:07):
it all going. And of course with the kittle campaign
around the Bay, it's not the same as what it
is in town. We have are kittles out and they
do well, and I've been looking after them for a
good many years now, especially the little counter top ghttles,
and we have four of them out in our area
and I checked them once a week or usually before

(01:22:29):
that wasn't get to go earlier, but now once a weekend.
They're really down from last year. And I know everybody
is finding the pinch as well. But I just like
to say to the people that's out in our area
and you see a little countertop kittle there, if you
put something in there, whatever you could afford, it will
make a difference over this Christmas season for somebody who's

(01:22:52):
in want, because you see everything that comes in in
the kittles or whatever, we use it for other people
not salvaged in our You've got other people. Because that's
overall about you know, we talk.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
About the need and it's obviously very real and as
I say in the past, it's the perfect storm. The
need is growing. People's capacity or resources to make donations
is withering. So boy, we find ourselves in a very
tricky spot. Just talk about the kind of need you
see in your region.

Speaker 7 (01:23:18):
Well, people that's coming to the food bank now are
people that would would have never ever come over to
the past, I don't know, no more years because of
their income. Just don't cut it anymore. And all the
commercial you see on TV when you got to make
bad choices, you know, and you've got to make certain choices,

(01:23:39):
and it's terrible. And the need is there for certainly
for food and certainly for families for use for Christmas.
And we don't do clothing never. We used to have
a trip store, but we give it up. But yeah,
I think there's a need in every area. I think,
Patty over no question.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
I appreciate making time. Keep up the good work, Lenn Pattie.

Speaker 7 (01:24:01):
Just before we just before I got on there, there
was a commercial and and the lady was saying that
we take care of our people here in Newfounan just
just who we are. I've been a Mariner by trade
and don't occur a bit of traveling. And there's no doubt,
no doubt about it. The Newland we're special, we're different,

(01:24:24):
so we're very giving and caring and looking after one another.
That's just to tuge of people we are. So I
just like to say to you, if you see the
little kttle there and you can put something in it,
it'll make a big difference.

Speaker 6 (01:24:38):
This Christmas you're here.

Speaker 2 (01:24:40):
Good to have you on the show, Glenn, Merry Christmas.

Speaker 7 (01:24:42):
I bless you and I have a good day you too.

Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
Bye bye. All right, So we're getting a little bit
close to try to squeeze in the callers because we're
going to talk about crime and punishment and or healthcare,
pretty broad topics and squeeze into just a couple of minutes.
So and on the front. And not to be broken
record though, even though I probably am is for the
folks that the North Shore who send me emails frequently.
We appreciate communication and they're all asking the same questions.

(01:25:07):
You know, we all know that between different levels of
government it's slow move and stuff. Pledges can't be made.
Leaders can visit us areas that have been devastated like
the wildfires around Port of Basque with Fiona and all
the rest of it is, but how and when does
the money start to flow? And people ask me a
question all the time, Well, if you didn't have your
home and shore that's on you. But there's a variety

(01:25:27):
of reasons as to why that might be the case
for different homeowners. But it's the money that was donated.
Look again, I really don't understand the processes and the
timelines associated with money coming in the door at the
Red Cross the money going out. But so many individuals,
so many companies, put a lot of effort into raising money,

(01:25:49):
made personal donations to the tune of millions of dollars.
We don't even know how it's going to be spent
or how it's going to be divvied up and sent
out the door. But we do know that when instance,
when we made a donation, we were hoping that sooner
than later that money would find its way to the
hands of folks who need it. I mean, we know
the devastation left behind because of that Kingston fire, A

(01:26:10):
couple hundred structures lost, including some homes lost to vaultaire
firefighters who were doing their damage to protect the region
all the while their house is burned to the ground.
So again, this is not an allegation of anything nefarious
or anything criminal, but that money came from me, came
from Dave Williams, came from this company, came from you,
the listener. We would really like to know when it's

(01:26:32):
going to make its way out to the north shore
on that same front. Every time I talk about fire,
this one other issue pops in my head. It's when
are we going to understand exactly what happened with the
drift Would in in Deer Lake. It's been well over
a year, and we know investigations take time. So all
these searches that fire suppression services and alarms and other
things weren't working. And if it wasn't for this one

(01:26:53):
lady who started banging on doors to see people get
evacuated before they got caught with in the smoke or
the fire. And we know there's an American tourist dead
as a result of the Driftwood fire. So whenever we're
going to have some understanding of exactly what went down there,
which would include not only the circumstances of that particular
hotel or motel burned to the ground, but then I
think we'll find out a lot more about the frequency

(01:27:16):
of inspections in places like hotels, because there's still something
something missing in the conversation about exactly what went down
there because there's a man dead, and I didn't expect
the I think what started on October the nineteenth maybe
so I didn't anticipate getting an answer to the investigation
by Christmas of that year. But here we are, well

(01:27:38):
over a year later and still not a peep. And
even more odd is the fact that usually when something
like this happens, whoever owns an entity like the hotel
that burnt to the ground, generally speaking, you'd hear from them,
whether it be just offered their condolences and saying that
they would be, you know, willing and wanting to work
with openness and transparency with all the investors, gations and

(01:28:00):
all that. But we didn't hear anything. Let's check it
out on Twitter. We're VOSM open line.

Speaker 12 (01:28:04):
You know what to do.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Email address is open line at VOSM dot com. Someone
really quite crooked that in referencing the President's speech to
the nation last night, which I did not watch, and
I just thought i'd seen it called the Pettysburg address,
because apparently that seems very apropolar. This one emailer is crooked.
Let's get a break in. Let me come back. We're
talking criminal justice, healthcare, then whatever you want to talk

(01:28:26):
about took away.

Speaker 1 (01:28:28):
You were listening to a rebroadcast VOCM Open Line. Have
your say by calling seven oh nine, two seven, three
fifty two eleven or one triple eight five ninety eight
six two six and listen live weekday mornings at nine am.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
Welcome back, Let's go to lie. Number two is taken
on to a former Crown prosecutor. That's Mike Murray. Morning,
Mike here on the air.

Speaker 8 (01:28:50):
Good, good morning, How are you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:52):
Best kind today? Thanks some about you?

Speaker 8 (01:28:54):
Good good good. I wanted to say a little something
about the Red Cross before we talked about it anything else,
following up on the call you had earlier this morning.
So I donated money to that fire relief concert thing
and since then, and I also made a donation to

(01:29:16):
a targeted earlier of the year, I can't remember what
it was. Since then, I received a bunch at least
ten or so on solicited emails around in August. I
got it. I got a package in the mail from
the Red Cross, a bunch of a bunch of old
junk looks like it was made in China, key chain

(01:29:38):
and a dish towel and a recycling bag. And it
was all dear Mike, Mike, Mike, all over there, and
yesterday I got a letter from the Red Cross asking
for money again with you know, a real thick envelope
with fake posted note on the front that with a
computer front designed to look like handwriting. S Mike, have

(01:30:00):
you heard our latest you know, offer or whatever? I mean,
it seems to me that, I mean, I'd think twice
about donating to the Red Cross again. I mean, that's
that's a low level nuisance slash harassment kind of stuff.
And also how much money are they wasting on these

(01:30:21):
on these professional fundraisers to send out these packages. I mean,
if I donate money to the Red Cross, I expected
to go to the cause I donated to, not this
kind of marketing campaign.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
Yeah. I get that, you know, And that's why when
I when we go to make charitable donations, I really
carefully consider just about how much money makes it to
the intended cause. Because charities are not all created equal.
There's different levels of salaries and operating expenses. And there's
a couple of websites that are very helpful in trying
to distinguish one charity from another. But on this front,
you know, I really maybe I was just kidding myself,

(01:30:55):
but I really thought that we see that flow of
the money through the Red Cross the people who need
it much quicker than this.

Speaker 8 (01:31:02):
Yeah. No, I mean you think that you think that
the Red Cross is going to be like the gold
standard for this type of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:31:11):
You would think so, And now I will say, obviously
they've done plenty of important quality work over the years
on this one, though, I think the frustration is growing
with many, including everybody who made a donation and everybody
who's waiting for the money to come out.

Speaker 8 (01:31:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I heard you mention some things about the
justice system this morning, and you were hoping that i'd
call in. Is there anything you wanted to talk about?

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
Well, I read with interest. There's some of the thoughts
you had about provincial courts being shut down. I know
it's not criminal, some civil matters. What that might mean
in the mindset of folks who maybe won't care as
much about following the rules of the road and the
speed limits and all of those types of things because
you think, well, my ticket that I challenged may never
be heard cont squidy, I might get away with it.
I was just curious about that that thought process.

Speaker 8 (01:31:57):
Yeah, I mean I think that. I mean, over the years,
Provincial Court has done a good job on the number
of fronts. I mean, they really beast up small Claims
court to make it more accessible and to make it
more effective. I think they handled COVID pretty good. I
think that they've handled the Jordan issue pretty good, so
that if anything goes wrong it's not the Provincial Court's

(01:32:19):
fault or that's you know, that's their goal. But I mean,
this current issue is a real crisis. I mean, clearly
they don't have the staff to do everything that they
want to do. I mean, you can't the public can't
get into court Room number seven anymore, which is which
is the main bail court. That's the biggest court down there.

(01:32:41):
That's where everybody goes when they're arrested and taken into custody. Yeah,
traffic court. I mean I think that people that human
behavior is that if nobody's watching, you're going to see
what you can get away with. And if you've got
stuff on the roads, if you've got tickets that might
not make it to court or maybe I mean it
might even affect the police. Is there any point or

(01:33:03):
writing the ticket if there's no traffic Court. I mean,
I don't know when you come to things like passing
school buses and speeding and being on your cell phone
while you're driving. I mean, that's the kind of stuff
I think where people feeling that they can get away
with it could increase dangerous behavior.

Speaker 2 (01:33:25):
And beyond that, I just think it's you know, you
call it a crisis, and I believe that's probably a
very fair assessment, and it didn't get any attention. Like
I couldn't believe it when I read the story. What
we're shutting down or pausing operations and people are going
to not have access in their area or not have
access in a timely fashion, and yet very few people
have picked up on it or seem to care about it. Now,
I guess people with matters before the court probably care

(01:33:48):
about it, But you know, sometimes I am genuinely surprised
when we don't get a lot of attention to stories
like that.

Speaker 8 (01:33:55):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:33:55):
I know that.

Speaker 8 (01:33:57):
One of the judges out in corner Brook on the
Spring Court judges talked about there was a major case
there over the past few months where this guy was
charighed with attempted murder and eventually convicted of aggravated assault
and I don't know if you know the case I'm

(01:34:18):
talking about, and the guy was supposed to be sentenced
and there were no sheriff's officers to bring him up.
They had to postpone the sentencing for a month. The
judge had a lot to say about it and ended
up given the guy, you know, extra credit for the
month he spent waiting to be sentenced. And some of

(01:34:39):
the other judges I know, Judge Gorman I think, has
talked about in his decisions about problems with sheriff's officers
and problems and delays of trials and delays of sentencings
and hearings. So I mean people have been trying to
raise the alarm, but of course people within the middle

(01:35:00):
justice system are kind of constrained as to what they
can say publicly. But I mean it's been it's been
a known issue for a couple of years. I think,
I think everybody was surprised with the exact extent of
the crisis. I mean, I think the part of the
issue with Small Claims Court and traffic Court is that

(01:35:21):
they don't have a sheriff's officer demand the gates and
check people going in and out. Because I need somebody
on the other side where the criminal justice stuff is happening.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 8 (01:35:32):
It's a real, real shortage of boots on the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:35:35):
Obviously. That goes from whether it be administrative staff or clerks,
or sheriff's officers or Crown prosecutors. And I heard bron
cal Had in the news this morning just talking about
the courttocket today. What a string of murders and a
bunch of attempted murders. And we know those complicated files
and the workload experienced by Crown prosecutors today. Can only
imagine what goes out of that office.

Speaker 8 (01:35:57):
Well, I mean if you just if you just to
follow a bit of it on the TV, I mean
you see the same couple of senior prosecutors handling a
large amount of heavy files. I mean they must have
an incredible workload. And I mean I've been told, you
know that there's eight or ten people have left Saint
John's Grounds office this year, at least in part because

(01:36:20):
of workload issues. And if you're just if you're just
plugging the numbers by you know, hiring young prosecutors starting out,
you're not going to be able to I mean, those
people can walk in off the street and do a
murder or fatal impair driving. I mean, those things take
years of experience, very.

Speaker 2 (01:36:41):
Quick one and this just pops into my mind. And
I'm not asking you to predetermine an outcome regard in
the Mitchell Row's case, of course, but I think there's
a bit of confusion out there about fit to stand trial.
The Supreme Court is pretty clear on it. What most
of us know about law comes from Law and Order
on television, and that's not really applicable to how we adjudicate.
Is like fit to stand trial in this province or

(01:37:03):
in this country part of me and the outcomes, including
the possibility like anaors not criminally responsible, walk this through
fit to stand trial and what the consequence of not
criminally responsible is?

Speaker 8 (01:37:13):
Sure? Okay, So fitness to stand trial has nothing to
do with guilt or innocence. It's it's a question of
whether you're I guess your mental status allows you to
participate in the criminal justice system. It's a very simple concept.
I mean, we're the bar set. We can talk about

(01:37:34):
in a minute. But you know, if you can if
you can say that person over there is my lawyer,
that person over there is the prosecutor. That's the judge
on the bench, and the judge decides and I complete
guilty or not guilty. I mean, if you can answer
those questions consistently, then you're probably going to be found

(01:37:55):
fit to stand trial. I mean, I've seen cases where
defense council have said, you know, that's all very well,
my clients fit, but I can't really get instructions and
I'm not so sure he is fit. I'd like a
second assessment, and sometimes that does happen because mental health
can go up and down. You know, there have been

(01:38:20):
talks about trying to sort of have a more qualitative
aspect to fitness to stand trial. Can people really act
in their best interest? Do they really understand what's going on?
But the Supreme Court has sort of taken the line
that people have a right to determine their own mental
health and that if they don't want to take meds,

(01:38:43):
but they understand the bare minimums, then you know, the
case can go ahead. So I don't know if that's
if that's clear, but that's more or less what fitness
to stand trial is.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
About, right, And then you know, of course, when it
takes back to the and Norse case and the result
of her corproceedings. The thought amongst some was that I
found not criminally responsible means she got away with it.
She gets the walk out of the court room, and
that's fine. That's not how it works either.

Speaker 8 (01:39:09):
Well, I mean, that's another issue where there's been some
controversy in recent years. So criminal responsibility has to do
with your understanding of if you're able to understand right
and wrong and action, and if you knew your actions
were wrong. It goes into both the legal notion that

(01:39:32):
you know something is legally wrong, but also the moral
part of it, whether you know something is morally wrong.
And it's not a question because this is what a
lot of people think. It's not just a question of
what they call it butt four test. But for the
fact that this person was off their meds, they would

(01:39:53):
not have committed the crime. Therefore, how can they be
criminally responsible? But that's not how it works. It has
to do with your understanding are right and wrong. Let's say,
in a hypothetical case, let's say you're a next door neighbor.
You believe you're a schizophrenic and you're off your meds,
and you think your next door neighbor is an alien,
So you shoot your next door neighbor. Well, if you

(01:40:16):
know that, even though you believe your neighbor to be
an alien, that you really shouldn't be shooting people, then
you could be found criminally responsible. It's a question of
whether you know what you understand about right and wrong
in the context of your actions.

Speaker 2 (01:40:35):
Yeah, it's and again we're not predetermined the outcome of
the Mitchell Roll's case now. But you know, I think
there's just a lot of confusion out there about things
like fitstand trial, what not criminally responsible means. And so
again we don't know what's going to happen in that
case because haven't even begun Mike. And let's say, well
we have you.

Speaker 8 (01:40:51):
Yeah, I just I guess. So fitness to stand trial
is like a gatekeeper thing about getting into the system.
Not criminally responsible is about guilt or innocence, which fitness
is not. And it's about your understanding of right and
wrong and whether you understood your actions were wrong. People
who are found not criminally responsible, it's not a get

(01:41:13):
out of jail free card. What ends up happening if
you're found not criminally responsible is that you're remanded to
the hospital and remanded before the review board, which would
be a combination of doctors and lawyers and lay people,
probably presided over by a judge, and they make decisions

(01:41:35):
about whether people are well enough to be released. Some
people are well enough to be released once they get
back on their meds. Some people may be in there
for years. There's a recent you know, I mean, there's
a debate about whether review boards should take into account

(01:41:55):
what you're alleged to have done and not just well
when they assess the risk of releasing people from hospital.
You know, so if you killed somebody, even if you're
doing better on your meds, maybe they should think twice
about releasing you. If you, you know, if you stole
something from dominion, maybe they should think about releasing you early,

(01:42:20):
even if you aren't all the way where the hospital
board would like it in terms of your mental health,
like whether they should take into account what you're accused of.
And that's the most current debate going on, and I
think that in Ontario, I think they're trying to pass
I'm not sure how a province can pass legislation in

(01:42:43):
this area, but Ontario wants to make it mandatory for
review boards to consider how serious the crime you committed
is because even if even if you're not criminally responsible,
the crown still has to prove that you committed the
offense so that nobody, nobody is remanded to a hospital
or sent to jail without you know, without it being

(01:43:05):
improved beyond a reasonable doubt that they actually committed the offense.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
Appreciate the time, Mike, Thanks for doing it, no problem,
take care. Bye bye, okay bye. All right, so let's
get that break in. Laura stay right there to talk healthcare.
Don't go away. We welcome back. Let's go let him
three Laura are on the air.

Speaker 13 (01:43:20):
Good morning, Patty, long time, no.

Speaker 2 (01:43:22):
Speak, welcome back to the show.

Speaker 13 (01:43:25):
Nice to hear from you. And you're doing a great job.

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
By the way, Thanks very much, Laura. What's on your
mind's morning?

Speaker 4 (01:43:30):
Well, I've got a.

Speaker 13 (01:43:31):
Lot of my mind, Patty, but I'll got tests. I'll
go back a little bit before I go on to
the healthcare situation I want to talk about. But first
of all, I want to say that I want to
thank everybody out there that elected me for thirty two
years at the council in Stephenville, because I just finished
up in September after thirty two years.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
Congratulations and oh thank you.

Speaker 13 (01:43:55):
And I've seen I've been on past chair of the
Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital Foundation and also the West Coast
Healthcare Committee that we've founded in two thousand and four
when our services were going to be cut. I want
to thank everybody that was involved. And we did get
involved with the healthcare group in Cornerbrook when they were

(01:44:18):
looking for radiation, and that came true in September. Now
we can go to Cornerbrook and get radiation as opposed
to going on to Saint John's, which is a great
thing for everyone in the area. And I want to
wish our Premier well and hope that he can do
you good things for our area because I've known our

(01:44:39):
Premier and his wife for many many years. A matter
of fact, she went to school with my children, so
I know them all very well. That don't make any
difference because politicians. Politicians are tired a lot of times
with the same brush, but they're not all alike, and
they tried to do the best they can. I really
believe that, and I think that sometimes they get some

(01:45:02):
hard comments, which a lot of times they don't deserve.
You have to walk in somebody's shoes, Patty, before you
know what's going on. My son, of course, was in politics,
Kevin Elward, for years at a young age of twenty four,
and as a result of him bind Tobin and a
few other premiers, we did get a brand new hospital

(01:45:23):
here in two thousand and four and we're that's still
running well today. I've been really concerned about the healthcare
and here in our area, especially since all the boards merged.
All started in nineteen eighty nine when the boards were

(01:45:45):
cut back and I was working, I was there. I'm
a retiree of thirty three years. So when I talk
about healthcare, Dr Paffrey and Sister Elizabeth Davis out there,
and Minister Leila Evans, I need you to call me
Philly when on a lot of issues that I can't
even say over open line. But the recent thing that

(01:46:05):
happened that really disturbs me is the fact that we
have a wonderful doctor here, doctor Patterson, and I know
he's got a lawyer and it's probably going to go further.
I don't know, but I think that someone has to
look into this situation in government because those bonuses were
given by government to get doctors to come here and

(01:46:27):
to other communities, and I don't think it's fair that
they're not. The government is not, you know, owning up
to what they promised. And in the nineteen sixties when
the base closed, we had the old hospital, we had
one hundred deads and we had all services. And now
we got one internist and we lost our obstetrical services,

(01:46:52):
and you know, things have gone downhill ever since all
the boards merged. Now I toward the new building the
with this clinic here last Friday, and that's a wonderful thing.
I want to let the people out there know that
that building now you can go there and get your

(01:47:12):
see your doctors in a comfortable, nice place where you
don't even have stairs and stuff like that. And because
they've been in a building for thirty years prior to
that where it wasn't even fit for a clinic. So
I'm pleased to say that that building is open and
it's running. And we do have at least three doctors

(01:47:33):
for sure that's there, and four three probably four nurse
practitioners and LPNs up there now, So I think that's
going to be a real that is a real asset
for this area and I'm pleased with that. I think
people have to take care of their own issues when

(01:47:53):
you're fighting, and I don't want to I don't like
using the word patty fighting. I would rather say advocate.
But we need to advocate more. We need to be
out there. The citizens need to be out there. I'm
speaking like as a citizen now because I think that
we need to talk and speak out when something is

(01:48:13):
not going right, because it's no good to sit in
the coffee shop and complain. You need to bring it
to the person that you feel would do something about it.

Speaker 10 (01:48:22):
Because if you're.

Speaker 13 (01:48:24):
Having trouble with healthcare and you're not pleased with what
the service you're getting, you need to go on somewhere
else because there's too many things that go on that way. Now,
we do have a surgeon that comes out here from Cornerbrook.
God love them. Thank you doctor for coming out and
use our services. Because we've had for a long time
trying to get surgeons to come out from Western Memorial.

(01:48:45):
They haven't really been too cooperative with us in the past,
so they've been he's been coming out.

Speaker 10 (01:48:52):
I really appreciate that.

Speaker 13 (01:48:53):
And our hospital we have mammograms, ultrasound, we have CT
scanners have the best modern equipment going. We have dialysis,
we have pain management, you name it, and we have
it at this hospital. And sometimes people out there, you know,

(01:49:13):
criticize hospitals and doctors, and I feel that the medical
profession and all staff actually in the hospitals, they all
work hard. You're going to go right down to environmental
services and go right up the line, and it's not
even you know, you have really good people working in
the hospitals, and you know, I give them thanks for

(01:49:37):
what they do, not only doctors and nurses, but the
whole staff, because I worked there. I was in the system,
and I've told doctor Paffrey and I've told sister Elizabeth Davis.
I've told them that anybody that worked in the system
knows the system. And a lot of times management management, management,

(01:50:03):
they don't take the time sometimes to listen to the
people that are in the system, and I think they
need to pay more attention to them as well. I
could go on for a long time, because I've got
a lot of experience in this situation, and I really
feel that I need to talk to Lela Evans as
soon as you can now. And I also want to

(01:50:24):
wish everybody out there a great Christmas and a great
New Year. And I'm planning to go into your city
for Christmas and planning to see a few people in
there when I go in. And I did. I knew
Andrew Fury from Broken Earth, and I had a good situe.

(01:50:46):
I could call Andrew whenever, whenever I needed. So I
think sometimes, Patty, politicians, God love them all, but they sometimes,
especially the opposition people complain about what should be done,
what didn't be done, and all this kind of stuff.
But they got to remember they're not walking in those shoes.

(01:51:08):
And once you get to be a minister and you're
the government, you have the responsibility for the whole province,
not just one place, the whole province, and you've got
to be, you know, in the know about that. And
I think our roads need a bit of assistance to
this time around. And I think the from Porta Baths

(01:51:32):
to Stephenville is a very important area that should be
cleared and I don't think that's in the plan.

Speaker 2 (01:51:37):
So at this moment of time, I've gone on.

Speaker 13 (01:51:40):
Now, I'll give you a minute, now, Patty.

Speaker 2 (01:51:42):
I wish I had a minute. We're late for the newscast,
but I appreciate you making time. Congratulations on thirty two
years on staying touch well.

Speaker 13 (01:51:49):
Thank you very much, and you have a great Christmas
with your family and friends.

Speaker 2 (01:51:53):
Thank you. Lor take good care of merry Christmas.

Speaker 13 (01:51:55):
Okay, bye bye, yeah bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:51:57):
I'm just going to break in for the news. Don't
go away. Got Tim Power.

Speaker 1 (01:52:01):
Show showing the conversation weekday afternoons at four pm on
your VOCM.

Speaker 2 (01:52:06):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go line number one, Dominic,
you around the air.

Speaker 14 (01:52:11):
Yes, good morning Paddy, Good morning Mary.

Speaker 11 (01:52:14):
Christmas and a happy New Year to you and all
your listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:52:16):
The very same to you, Dominic.

Speaker 12 (01:52:18):
Yeah, Patty. I'd like to throw the bouquet to a
couple of hard walking ladies. I was a few months
trying to get my guarantee. Didn't come something to the
straight enough, you know, and of course were and through difficulty,
so I child my member's office. So this lady that
works at Iola Mae aj Iola's district office in Perryland, Joan.

Speaker 6 (01:52:39):
And Lady F. C.

Speaker 14 (01:52:41):
Rray Randa. Between the two, within three weeks they had
Lal's organized and setting and dawn for me. So I'd
like to just throw the bouquet of those new ladies
today and with my merry Christmas and a happy New Year.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
Perfect. So what was the issue with your gis.

Speaker 14 (01:52:58):
I was trying to get a partty of I been
the form for this and that, and seemed like.

Speaker 12 (01:53:05):
You we got delayed and hung up and everything else.
And so anyhow, had the Service Canada walking on it
for a while and it's been I got my MHA
was involved in it and within no time and they're
just about every day she was in Canston. Conduct would
be a big something, you know, and within a few
weeks they say, lived so very good.

Speaker 2 (01:53:27):
I'm glad to hear it.

Speaker 4 (01:53:27):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:53:28):
Sometimes when people say we'll just contact our MHA, generally speaking,
whether be your MHA or your MP, their constituency assistance,
they do some pretty good work. I mean sometimes it's
hard to get the politician or the minister on the phone,
but some of those constituency assistants they contact us all
the time, you know, saying oh I just heard this call.
Can you pass along this number, which we do and
hopefully things get rectified.

Speaker 12 (01:53:49):
Oh yes, they worked very good at anyway, and very
efficient and very inote courtesy.

Speaker 2 (01:53:55):
I'm glad it worked out the way it did. Thank
you very much, sir, appreciate your time. Have a nice Christmas,
Merry Christmas, Happy hol.

Speaker 14 (01:54:02):
Liz, same to you and yours.

Speaker 2 (01:54:04):
Thank you very much much. You're welcome by Patty.

Speaker 8 (01:54:08):
Betty.

Speaker 14 (01:54:08):
I was one of us left on us and I said, no,
you know, how can I repay you for this?

Speaker 12 (01:54:15):
No sources and already got paid.

Speaker 7 (01:54:17):
But I tell you what to do.

Speaker 12 (01:54:18):
Call Patty daily and announced told you were okay.

Speaker 2 (01:54:22):
And then most of the hard working people in len
absolutely and I'm sure they appreciate the kind words.

Speaker 12 (01:54:31):
Great, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (01:54:32):
Bye bye, Let's see problem. Let's go to line too,
Darrel around the air.

Speaker 6 (01:54:37):
Hi, Patty, Hey you doing today?

Speaker 2 (01:54:38):
Not bad?

Speaker 6 (01:54:39):
You all doing good? Thanks payone. Let's talk about today.
Is hearing a lot of commentary lately from the opposition
party about to send o you and if you don't,
if you don't get this done before Quebec's next election,
that we could lose the deal on all that stuff,
and good, yeah, well we could. But I don't necessarily

(01:55:04):
agree with all that because they're saying, well, rush, rush, rush,
get this done, done done. But the thing is, I'm
going to go back in nineteen sixty nine. The reason
why Quebec had opened up that upper Church or contract
now because.

Speaker 7 (01:55:16):
We need the power.

Speaker 6 (01:55:18):
And so what we got to take a look at
is that it don't matter what party forms the government,
the goal lose this next election still don't change. Quebec
still needs the power regardless. So like we're I'm hearing
this like Rush Rush will lose the deal and all that.
I don't agree with that. We got to take her time.
Tony wakem is doing the right thing. Take her time,

(01:55:39):
got good people in place and get this done right
because once you do, the deal is done. I mean,
we went back to the courts over the years and
Quebec willn't even look at us. Now they're willing to
open it up because they need the power. So my
thing is with people that are like say, we got
to get this done down, we're going to lose the
deal if Quebec needs the power. Don't matter who's in government,

(01:56:03):
they still need the power regardless. So we got to
do our due diligence, take her time and get this
done right.

Speaker 4 (01:56:10):
Now.

Speaker 6 (01:56:10):
Something else we got to look at. Michael Sevier uh
dex CEO of Quebec Hydro he's Mark Karney's right hand man. Now,
now we talked about this before, and I'm going to
add a bit more to the mix. And while we're
going to have to watch out on that part of
it is like water rights and all that stuff, because
they're going to be in control of regulations. So what's

(01:56:32):
going to happen, Like we gotta be careful because what
will happened with the muskrat Falls deal if Quebec has
control over water rights? Whatever, will that goes stagnant? I mean,
it's just questions I'm thrown out here, and I think
we got to talk about more the broad spectrum of
everything in general. And rather than like rush rush rush,
and get this done quick and whatever. I don't agree

(01:56:54):
with it. Take her time and let's do this right.

Speaker 2 (01:56:58):
Yeah. I don't think anybody is arguing that we shouldn't
try to get this done right because it's just far
too important to get it wrong. I mean, I think
that's pretty popular thought.

Speaker 7 (01:57:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:57:08):
Yeah, no, no exactly, because I listened to commentary. Some
people say, okay, we should get done now quickly. You know,
we're going to get all these so much money per
year and whatever, But there's probably more to be hady
when you look at now with hydro, we do have
the gym because there's going to be more and more
and more demand for hydro as years go by, like

(01:57:28):
you know, Ai, and you know the list goes on
and on and on for demand for hardro. So we
do have the gym. And like you said, we got
to get this. We got to get this right because
if we don't get it right, this is no good.
We going back to the courts afterword and challenging this
and challenging that you got to do it right. Now,

(01:57:49):
take your time and hopefully that we will come out
on the winning in hopefully and if Quebec government do
change and they you know, and they're not willing to
negotiate whatever, we do have no option. Let us sit
there because after twenty and forty one, we'll own the
Upper Churchill one hundred percent anyhow, and somewhere long line,

(01:58:12):
somebody will become looking for our hydrole.

Speaker 2 (01:58:14):
That's not true.

Speaker 6 (01:58:15):
We'll get to look at Yes, it is twenty and
forty one, we'll own it one percent.

Speaker 2 (01:58:20):
No, no, no, The equity stakes remain the same. It's
an opportunity for a renegotiation on price, right but but we.

Speaker 6 (01:58:29):
Still own it one hundred percent. Now I stand to
be corrected to go and take a look at it again. Yeah,
the gatther we'll own the church will fall us one
hundred percent. But yes, prices and everything got to be renegotiated.

Speaker 2 (01:58:40):
You know, we don't say it's the same round number
sixty five sixty five thirty five.

Speaker 6 (01:58:45):
All okay, Okay, well there you go. But still you know,
if we got the asset there regardless, and we get
the majority into it, but why sell they and lose?
Is better let us sit there and somewhere down the
road that you get a deal that it works out
for the problems of new Plant Labrador fair Ball.

Speaker 2 (01:59:06):
Appreciate the time, Thanks for calling.

Speaker 6 (01:59:07):
Ari, Thanks Patty for having me on your showing. All
the best to you and your listening audience, and have
a great finish to you today.

Speaker 2 (01:59:14):
Same to you, Thanks Daryl.

Speaker 6 (01:59:15):
All right, well bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:59:17):
One thing I will never understand is so like we
weren't made privy to all the negotiations leading up to
the MoU and I get some of that stuff, and
or we made privy to the negotiations which seemingly have
stalled at this moment in time. But remember back the
government created a committee to look at twenty forty one
and the implications of twenty forty one. They did their work,

(01:59:40):
They produced some sort of report, and we're not talking
about commercial sensitivities or intellectual property or privacy concerns. They
should have released it because then at least the general
public would have an idea of what twenty forty one means,
because there's plenty confusion out there, Like for folks that think,
all of a sudden, twenty forty one is the end
of the road of relation ship Wi hydrocopect that's not true.

(02:00:01):
And twenty forty one is all of a sudden going
to be the golden egg that the golden goose laid.
That's not necessarily true either. But I'm just never further
life of me understand why they didn't just release that
report so we could all read it, we could all
have conversations about what it actually is going to happen
when twenty forty one arrives. All right, let's get our
final break in the morning in when we come back,
still another segment left for you, topic up to you

(02:00:22):
don't go away. Welcome back to the show. Well once again,
back to the email inbox, and listener says, how come
we didn't talk about this happens all the time? But hey,
fair enough. So this is about population decline, largest population
decline in the country's history just took place. And the
assertion is that, you know, mornings to happen, we need
fewer people here in the country. And I guess that's

(02:00:43):
all about immigration. I assume the death rate outpaces the
birth rate in this province. And just a couple things,
even if people don't want to hear them. You know,
when the government was told too many people coming into quickly,
I totally agree. We were not prepared. Even if you
ask immigrants, they were prepared for the lack of access
to housing or lack of access to healthcare. So it's undeniable.
Too many people came all the same time and we

(02:01:05):
were not prepared. Then there's the side of the coin
about the economy, because we can't have it both ways.
They're not coming here to a leach off the government
and b take your job at the same time, because
that's not a thing. But if just listen to, for instance,
to the business community, and you can ignore the business
community if you like, I get it. So the CFIB,

(02:01:25):
they talk about consumer spending because we're the economy, right,
government isn't the economy, and they say consumer spending is up,
but on an individual basis, consumer spending is down. So
I think we're going to find out very quickly what
the population decline means. So, yes, there's been a severe
reduction in the temporary for a worker program, a severe
reduction in student visas, a big reduction in the pathway

(02:01:48):
to permanent residency a less for instance, you're a doctor.
So yeah, there will be people celebrating the population decline,
but we'll see how it actually works. And the same
person who wrought me the email about how can we
didn't talk about this said, well, we will see is
that prices will come back down to worth. I don't
know how that works. And you know, another point was
that what rent is going to come back down. I'm

(02:02:08):
not sure how that works either. Price of new homes
is going to come down. Really, price new homes is
generally driven by labor costs and materials and permitting and
all the rest of it. If we're talking about the
sale of homes, then maybe so, because what we see
is a pretty hot market. If you're a seller. I mean,
bidding war is all the rage, and I courtly speak
with any authority about where I live. You know, the

(02:02:30):
rest of the country all has different housing concerns. So yeah,
we can explore that that topic a little further tomorrow morning.
And the same person again, I'm not so sure what
they think they heard me say. Regarding trade. Look, where's
the United States biggest customer?

Speaker 4 (02:02:47):
Right?

Speaker 2 (02:02:47):
We have been for quite a long time for American exports.
So the new demands on the table from the Americans,
and in particular the US Trade representative of fellow named
Jamison Queer, was testifying in front of Congress regarding the
future of KUZMA, the trilateral trade deal between Canada, the
United States, and Mexico, you know, saying that it doesn't
necessarily mean it's been a good thing for the United States.

(02:03:09):
But at the exact same time, reporting some of the
numbers since twenty twenty, American exports to Canada and Mexico
are up fifty six percent. It's hard to understand how
that constitutes a bad thing. I mean, fifty six percent
is a pretty significant increase in trade for the Americans
into Canada and the United States. But they have a
bunch of demands that they're putting the back in place.

(02:03:31):
The Online Streamings Act. We heard a lot about it
when it was first put forward as legislation, and then
some of the way people consider the Online Streaming Act
and the impact on their lives is curious. So I
see this all the time, especially on Facebook. People will say, look,
I'd love to share this story, but the Canadian government

(02:03:51):
ensure that I couldn't. The Canadian government was trying to
get the big American tech companies to pay for content
generated in Canada by news organizations, right, So that's what
that was. The government didn't say that Facebook couldn't share
Canadian content. Facebook said that they're not going to allow
to share Canadian content as a way to push back
against the Online Streaming Act, and then there was demands

(02:04:13):
to drop the Digital Services Act, which happened. So it's
hard to know what's going to appease the Americans that
try to get back on this free trade path that
has been working and it works for the Americans experts
around fifty six percent. So what are they looking for?
They want us to deal with supply management Again, this
conversation is what sixty plus years all at this time.

(02:04:36):
And again, if you look at research done about the
implication for dairy products, poultry or eggs based on supply management,
people are really coming up with different results depending on
who you ask. But if you look at historical examples
like Australia, I think is a really good example because
they had regulations in place very very similar to supply
management in this country, the political argument was being entertained,

(02:05:00):
and consequently, with the change of governments then this is
like ten fifteen years ago when they dropped the regulations.
Three years later, what happened The price of those products
that were controlled by regulations went up twenty seven percent.
So we can look at research our think tanks here
in this country and the arguments politically speaking about what

(02:05:20):
will happen if we do away with supply management, but
I don't know looking at examples where they've actually done
it is pretty important. And supply management of courses, the
setting of quotas and minimum prices, and then of course
the impact of tariffs. What the Americans always forget to
mention is that they we pardon me, they allow less

(02:05:41):
dairy poultry and eggs into America, then we allow American
content into Canada, and in the world of dairy, particularly
many farmers in the United States, they use a growth
hormone that we're not even allowed to use in cattle
here in this country. So there's a bunch of reasons
why supply management has remained in place. So there's that,
and then it's back to what some people consider trivial

(02:06:03):
is the American booze, the alcohol. Part of their demands
is that every single province has to put American product
back on the shelves before they're even going to consider
re signing or reviewing this trilateral trade deal, which absolutely
has been working. But that one about Online Streaming Act.
The government didn't tell Facebook to not allow the sharing

(02:06:24):
a Canadian content. Facebook made that decision of their own court.
That's exactly what happened. Now, could we have done a
better job. We absolutely could have done a better job. Oh,
which brings me back to Australia. The Australians crafted a
deal that forced Meta to pay for Australian generated content,
but in a different, more mutually beneficial way, as opposed

(02:06:46):
to we had a hard stop on it. And of
course the big tech giant said, well, go to hell.
And here's what we're going to do. As a result,
there's been a bunch of pushback, not from every company
in the tech sector, but certainly when you look at Meta,
specifically their operations on Facebook, last one on Australia Promise.
I'm also a little bit surprised there wasn't more conversation

(02:07:06):
on this program regarding social media and youth mental health
and protection for children or youth who are on different
social media platforms, and there's a bunch of them that
are now banned for youth under the age of sixteen
in Australia. The world is going to be watching to
see what the outcome woight be and there's no way
anyone can consider the legislation perfect because it's not. Teenagers

(02:07:26):
in that country are already looking at wrap arounds using
VPNs or a part of me workarounds like a VPN
or otherwise, and it's going to be difficult for a
confirmed verification of your age, which also comes with privacy concerns,
you know some of the ways that they're going through
the verification process, so it's not going to be ideal.
But everywhere you look, and there's some pretty widespread consensus

(02:07:47):
on this social media use for children and youth has
been a problem. It absolutely has been a problem. We
see the spike in anxiety and depression. We see the
spike in children being low for sexual purposes online, especially
social media. We see the examples of the rise of
sex stortion on social media. So I don't know if

(02:08:09):
that's the right way for government to have intervened in
such full force, but it seems to me that we've
got to figure out a way for some different approach
in this country. Now. Basically there's only three entities that
can be responsible there the government via legislation, or more
importantly and probably more appropriately is parents and caregivers. I

(02:08:30):
mean some people. And look, there's no parenting handbook, there's
no perfect parent out there. But if it when social
media becomes part of the digital babysitting world, then things
can get away from you very very quickly. And not
everything has a big red flag or big warning sign
that parents think, oh my child has found themselves in
a spot of bother or some serious trouble regarding their
online usage, especially social media. I found checking on the

(02:08:53):
Twitter box orre viosm open line. You can follow us there.
The email addresses open line at VOSM dot com and
we will indeed pick up this Converse station again tomorrow morning,
right here on VCM and big Land FM's open Line.
I'm happy to the producer David Williams. I'm your host,
Patty Daily. Have yourself a safe, fun, happy day. We'll
talk in the morning. Bye bye,

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