Thursday Oct 9th

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is VOCM Open Line call seven oh nine two
seven three fifty two eleven or one triple eight five
ninety eight six two six abusing opinions of this programmer,
not necessarily those of this station. The biggest conversation in
Newfoundland and Labrador starts. Now here's VOCM Open Line host

(00:22):
Paddy Daily.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well, all right and good morning to you. Thank you
very much for tuning into the program. It's Thursday, October
the ninth. This is open Line. I'm your host, Patty Daily,
David Williams, he's producing the program. Let's get a going.
If you're in the Saint John's metro region. The number
of dollar get in the Q and on the air
seven zero nine two seven three five two one one
elsewhere a toll free long distance one eight eight eight

(00:45):
five ninety VOCM, which is eighty six twenty six. So
how about those Toronto Blue Jays. That's pretty great bounce back.
Brazilian victory last night to knock out the New York Yankees, or,
as Vladimir Guerrero Junior said, the Yankees lose. He really
does have done. Severe disdain for the Yankees, but pretty
great victory. Now we wait for the winner the Detroit

(01:07):
Seattle series. That's going to Game five tomorrow evening. Then
the Jays kick off the Alcs at home on Sunday
tom TBD. As far as I know, so, I mean
sit down to watch the ball game. I know there's
some pretty heated tensions between Canada the United States these days,
but the Boo Birds ever show up to Boo that
the Canadian national anthem last night? Oh man, and they

(01:28):
were quickly silenced by the Jays. Anyway, that's pretty great
first series win since twenty sixteen. Okay, so leader's debate
prior to watch a baseball last night, So I mean
I tuned in. It was a relatively tame affair, and
that's not a bad thing necessarily. You know, fireworks are
for the headline grabbing SoundBite potential. But it was relatively

(01:49):
tame affair. I'm not so sure moved the needle one
way or the other very much, nor do I think
debates really do much of that anyway in the first place.
So we can get into some of the issues that
were broke. I think there were some twelve questions that
were posed, and you know, people keep asking me, what
do I think this selection is about? I don't know.
I mean, because everybody's got a different life circumstance, right,

(02:09):
So I hear a lot of people tell me this
is about the Upper Churchill Memorandum of Understanding, fair enough,
but I think the vast majority of people are wrapped
up in their own busy life. So cost of living
and health care and public safety. I think those are
the top three things. I'm not going to diminish the
importance of the Upper Churchill MoU because it's obviously a

(02:29):
huge issue that has impact for fifty sixty years during
this province and they need to get it right as
paramount of course. So you tell me. The party platforms
from both the Liberals and the PCs were dropped yesterday,
the day after the advanced polls and just hours prior
to the leader's debate. The NDP, to their credit, have
had their cost of platform out for quite a long time,
a couple of weeks, I think. So I'm not going

(02:51):
to dig into every moving part, but I'm looking forward
to your input today if you've had the opportunity to
get into the party platforms. Fair ball, and there's a
variety of things that we can dig in on. One
thing that we don't hear much about, though, is how
we're going to tackle the bloody debt. I mean Rob
Antelin the story yesterday from the CBC. We talked about
total liabilities, total financial exposure in and around fifty billion.

(03:16):
We talked about the part of me the provincial debt
being around twenty billion. But there's a lot of other
exposures and or liabilities that must be considered. With all
of the new promise spending. You know, over a couple
of one hundred million from the PCs, about one hundred
and fifty million issue, maybe hundred and thirty nine million
for the Liberals. Where's the money coming from? Look, I
know people need to see promises or pleasures on the

(03:38):
campaign trail, whether about reducing taxes and taking taxes off
home heating, all these things, adding more money to the
healthcare spend. Look, I get all of the things that
people need and want, but we do have to be
extremely careful here. All I hear from folks when we
talk about things like the potential for onshore Win Green
hydrogen pneumonia, the potential for Beata Nord potentially let the

(04:01):
over Churchill travel nurses. All these things we need to
hear attention to and pragmatic policies associated with you talk
about leaving things for your children and grandchildren. Well, if
one of the things that we're going to ignore is
leaving that overwhelming, crushing debt to our grandchildren, then we
are missing the boat in full. So things like future

(04:22):
funds and all those aspirational things that sound good in
premise really don't make any sense. Let's hear some actual strategy.
And there's not a one size fits all, it's not
an overnight fix. But we have been woefully betraying ourselves
by not making that the primary question. Yes, I know
people need access to healthcare, of course you do. I
know people want to pay less and get more, absolutely,

(04:45):
But in the big scheme of things, the first question
for me is where's all the money coming from? I
mean for me, that is absolutely the first consideration when
we look at party platforms, and consequently not a lot
there to dig into. All right, So let's go back
to the MoU for a second. I'm hearing from people
in Labrador that hydro Quebec employees are on site speaking

(05:09):
directly with members of say, for instance, the inter Nation,
and there's some accusations out there that there's been some
money change hands. Look, I don't know exactly what's going
on here, but that is ridiculous. And also Senator David Wells,
he's put his opinion forward about the need for independent
review and whether or not we got the best deal,
you know, the issue. But apparently he sees this as

(05:31):
a form of a warning. So here's the quote directly
from the Senator. When I raised the genimate concerns about
a deal that could disadvantage Nufilanda Labrador for generation its
powerful interest, responded with what looks like intimidation. So apparently
someone working for Le Journelle de Morrel former chairman of Apartment,
a company founded by a gun named Pierre Pilledot, former
chairman of Fedro Quebec. They owned the Quebec Core company.

(05:54):
So here's one of the things I came forward. The
request asked about the residence of my spouse and dependent child.
It asked about my family situation, it asked about my staff.
That's not journalism, it's a warning. I mean, we know
Quebec and Hydro Quebec play hardball, they always have and
they very likely always will. But this is getting getting

(06:14):
away from us again. Look, everything, especially during the campaign,
will be politicized. It's unavoidable. It's really unfortunate that it
is as political as it is regarding this fifty to
sixty year proposed deal between this province and Quebec our
utility and their utility. So anyway, that's tattening in the
Senator wills, and of course it's a thinly veiled warning.

(06:36):
And if you know about what's going on in Labrador
with Hydrogebec's presence up there, I've heard conflicting stories and
so I don't really know. But if they're bringing that
level of intimidation to residents in Labrador, grow up right,
Let's come back to the negotiating table where business deals
are done. Right anyway, not to be Pollyanna, not to
be naive, but you know the deal associated with it,

(06:58):
and we can talk about anything in that. Oh and
let's say, what's this election about. We cannot avoid the
conversation regarding drugs, addiction treatment, mental illness, mental health because
some of the societal lills can be drawn a very
particularly straight line between some of those issues. Last one
on the potential for Gaull Island to be developed, and

(07:20):
we've had Michael Wilson on this week and Jennifer Williams
on this week. So some polar opposite views on the
contents of the MOLU. But what is also kind of
missing in some of these conversations is what's the status
of negotiation with the Intonation. The Constitution says it has
to be done. Number one. When the last pocket of
five point two billion dollars of rate mitigation money as

(07:42):
they call it, came forward three point two billion dollars
regarded with the Hibernie revenue, an additional billion dollars of
federal loan guarantee and another billion dollars of federal loan,
the Internation said quite clearly at that time it jeopardized
their revenue at Muskrat to the tune of about one
billion dollars. As a result, they said clearly there will
not be any Gull Island development until they're made whole.

(08:05):
So where is that? Because we can talk about the
contents of the MLU and the pathway to definitive agreements,
but if one of the lynchpins of it, certainly for
hydro Quebec is Gaull Island, well, what's going on with
the conversation or negotiation with internation. Haven't heard much about it.
Your thoughts, Okay, So we didn't break down all the
results of all the municipal elections passed, because of course

(08:28):
there were so many we started to know where to start.
We can put a bow on municipal elections now that
the results in the City of Saint John's are in.
Not going to dig into every winner or loser. First out,
Congratulations to all the candidates. Danny Breen back in asmayor
Ivy Hanley put up a pretty good fight. She came
relatively close to unseating Danny Breen, which I think is
pretty impressive performance given the fact her first time out

(08:50):
runs for the big chair. So congratulations on the tight race,
and we can you know there are some new faces
in consul chamber, which I think is a very good
thing obviously. All right, a couple of things. People talk
about election fatigue. It's real, I feel it. We just
went through our third election of this calendar year, and
some pretty hotly contested issues at that. So one of

(09:12):
the things, like I took advantage of the mail in ballot.
It was delivered to my home, I filled it out,
I dropped it off at the box at the Paul
Reynolds Center the end for folks who went to vote
in person last evening or yesterday. Extraordinarily long wait times
have been reported far and wide, so there's a bunch
of stuff associated with it. It is incumbent on city

(09:33):
staff and the new council upon being sworn in to
deal with the voter lists, like there is something patently
wrong here. If we have people, I'll tell the same
story again. Mom and Dad living in the home for
the past of picking number ten years. Their two adult
children have moved out, but they got seven ballots delivered
for Mom, for Dad, their children and the residents prior.

(09:54):
That's not good enough. That opens up the door for
a potential voter fraud. Some people are smart enough to
not do it, but others maybe will do it. So
that's it, so get down to it. The provincial voting
list was not transferred in full or completely or accurately
to the City of Saint John's. Consequently, people were read
string to vote in personal last night, standing in line

(10:15):
for extraordinary long periods of time. That cannot be the way.
Voter turnout was woeful in the city. Just over twenty
seven thousand people voted down fifteen percent from the last
municipal election. Look, there's a lot on the line. Your
municipal councils really do deal with a lot of the
day to day issues that are important to you. But Matt,

(10:35):
just over twenty seven thousand people voted in Saint John's
absolutely wild. But I get it. The fatigue is absolutely real. Now.
I was a little confused with the so called confusion
about who's running for what particular office, whether it be
award or not large councilor or running provincial politics. But
long way times with the confusion regarding the voter list. Look,
that's the boring work of politics that we need to

(10:57):
see people pay strict attention to get that right. Just
imagine how many people last night lined up for an
hour to vote. What do you think they're going to
do next go around? They'll probably just shrug their shoulders
set not doing that again. And everyone understands exactly why.
All right, sticking with the city for a second, and
this is not just a city issue, because we've heard
water conservation orders right around the province. We've had some

(11:18):
municipalities where there are reservoir dried up in full. So
it's a problem. The city Saint Show's has had a
water conservation order in since twenty twenty or twenty two.
I don't know if many people know that, but just
some of the very fundamental recommendations. We're not being ordered
to do so at this moment in time. But unless
things improved dramatically with the reservoir, maybe that's around the corner.

(11:42):
So they talk about really simple things. Take shorter showers.
I'm in and out pretty quick. I don't doddle in
the shower. Turn off the tap. I mean simple, turn
off the tap while brush your teeth or shaving. Only
use the dishwasher when or your washing machine when they're full.
Fix any leak and taps your toilets. It feels like
kind of a oh whatever kind of issue. But you know,
I take it for granted, living in the East end

(12:03):
of town. I turn on the tap, I get nice, clear, crisp,
cold drinking water, and we're lucky, and we take it
for We take it for granted sometimes. But the water
conservation recommendations or advisory is in place, all right. You
never know what's going to peak the interest of the listeners,
and sometimes we talk about all the big issues or

(12:23):
at least we try to. And it's your show as
much as mine, so you can tell me about you
want to talk about. But plenty of reaction to the
conversation we had yesterday with the Mayor of Burgio, Trevor Green,
talking about the Beluga whales that are in now at
defunct marine land in Ontario. So the federal government has
been they've asked the federal government for some support and
all the rest of it. But the mayor of Bergio

(12:47):
is thinking that maybe there's an opportunity to bring those
thirty beluga whales to his community for a variety of reasons.
And again, you know, I'm never I shouldn't be surprised
any longer with the number of years have been in
this chair, dozens of emiales. Some are saying it's ridiculous,
we don't have the money, and they're saying this is
a great idea, but a couple of things stem from it.
How does that work with the proposed National Marine Conservation Area.

(13:10):
There's still plenty of confusion out there by this Parks
Canada proposal, which is right now owing in the feasibility
study stages. They're only looking at societal and environmental impact
for the most part, no evaluation of economic impact, which
is a problem. And so how does that work? And
what can you or can you not do inside a
National Marine conservation area? We know it certainly will mean

(13:34):
no expansion in the aquaculture industry. We had a call
yesterday from Sharon Pickett talked about some of the problems
as they pertain to the mass salmon die off. But
you know, Belugas and Bergio in one particular cove, and
or the national conservation area and the aquaculture industry and
a variety of other things, And just put that out
there for your thoughts here this morning. A couple more

(13:55):
quick ones. I continue to get pictures sent to me
from various grocery retailers in different parts of the country
about the whole concept of shop local. Look for the
longest time we think about it and talk about it
on this program, there's a lot of upside shopping local.
It's your money, you do as you see fit. But
for the Canadian retailers, groceries in particular, the fact that

(14:18):
they're willing in the boardrooms to plot and strategize to
willfully mislead their customers is pathetic. You know, things if
you look at the package, are a product of somewhere else,
but yet they're labeled as product of or made in Canada.
It's just not fair. I mean, we're already getting punished
at the grocery store with the cost of groceries. But
to go down that path and to continue to go

(14:39):
down that path, come on, I mean, play along. You're
all doing great and most of us are struggling at
the same time. Whether or not you shop local is
obviously entirely up to you. But you know why it
continues is because the Canadian Food Inspection Agency has identified
plenty of examples of misleading advertising, misleading labeling and have

(15:00):
done nothing about it. They have the opportunity to levy
finance when they find people doing exactly that, but they
decided not to. What do you think is going to
happen when a business is not taken to task or
punished or fined for doing these things, They're just going
to keep doing it. So come on, CFIA, if you
have the wherewithal of the capacity to bring forward to

(15:20):
find they try to financially bring these businesses back to
some order of reality and fairness, then do it. Thank
you on behalf of all Canadians all right, still referred
for Minister Johann Thompson talking about the three local women
who have been detained or arrested, abducted, kidnapped, whatever word
you want to use, as part of the flotilla trying

(15:42):
to bring humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip. So we
really don't know what's going on here. We are told
that they're safe and soon to be deported. Minister Thompson
voting voice and Abby's concern, which we all should be.
And so these three local women, Devanni Ellis, Sadie Meese
and the kid to Stable, they were amongst a hundred
that were kidnapped, abducted, detained, arrested by the Israeli defense

(16:07):
forces in international waters. There's more tooth than simply the
fact that they're detained and we don't really know their status.
We're toll that they're safe and we hope for they're
safe return. Also, in very good news, there is apparently
phase one of a peace plan regarding the conflict between
Israel and the Palestinians in place. The hostages should have

(16:27):
been returned quite a long time ago. That's part of it,
including a ceasefire. There's still a lot of vagaries associated
with where the Israeli Defense Force will set up shop
and retain whatever land they've occupied since the war began
over two years ago, they say, a retreat to some
yet to be determined line. Hopefully there is actual pragmatic
peace in the works here. We've talked about peace in

(16:50):
that region in two state solutions for decades, and of
course it's never come to pass. We get brief periods
of tensions being de escalated, just to find ourselves right
back into the rows of blood and devastations. So hopefully
that peace plan is going to actually be something that
is real and something that works very quickly. And I
guess part of this on of personal note, and you know,

(17:14):
sometimes I hesitate to bring forward one story or another
about one person or another who has passed away, because
everyone who lose a loved one, of course, is devastating
and the grief is real in our condolences, and on
this front, I do want to say and pass along
with condolences to the friends and the family of John McGrath.
John was a big figure in the sporting community. I mean,

(17:36):
you go right back to the Honduras Canada soccer match
to qualify for the World Cup at King George the
Fifth in nineteen eighty five. He was part of that.
He's part of bringing that team here, that game here.
So he was the past president of Sport NL, president
of the new Flunal Labador Soccer Association, Chairman of the
board of Governors at the NL Sports Hall of Fame.
He's in two different hall of Fames, both soccer and
the Sporting Hall of Fame. He's passed at the age

(17:58):
of seventy five. He's also heavily involved with Saint John's
Maple Leafs and a variety of other sporting initiatives. I'd
see John around a lot. He's been on well for
a number of years, sir now, but he has now
passed away at the age of seventy five. So once
again I thought he was a fine man and my
deepest condolence is to everyone in knew him and especially
his family. We're on Twitter where VSM open line. You

(18:19):
can follow us there. Email addresses open ONNOFOCM dot com.
When we come back, let's have a great show that
only happens when you're in the queue to talk about
whatever's on your mind. Don't go away, Welcome back to
the show. I speaking this morning online number of three
morning we're on, You're on the air.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
Hello, good morning, good morning to you.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah, I'm in the situated in the Grandfather's Windsor and
I was involved with the a lot of the meetings
the government and the final shutdown the Avativ Bowl Otter
Milk Grandfathers.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
And last night I understand.

Speaker 4 (18:52):
Fabian Fabian Power is the Liberal candidate the exploits region
and then it's to be one of our rogers TV. Locally,
he said to the people that Abba Tabby Bullwater didn't
shut the mill in Grand Falls, new Land, and in

(19:12):
fact the PC government exppropriated it. That's a that's a
I was terribly upset by it. That's absolutely wrong. Abatav
Bulwater had done a whole series of acquisitions that could
steal the stone, consolidated, for example, acquisition mergers, trying to

(19:37):
become the largest producer and newsman in the world. They
incurred quite a debt in that in that process and
they got so far into and got to be so
big that when there was a negative move on.

Speaker 5 (19:54):
The place's newsman worldwide.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
It had it had a bad effect on their financial
position to the point they couldn't handle it. They started
selling off assets across the country, and the routine was
you shut down a mill, you sell the timber assets
and you sell the power assets belonging to that mill

(20:19):
to get enough money to get not to pay off
the debt and sell in the mill wouldn't and wouldn't
do that for him, but it might get them enough
money to give to the banks so that the banks
wouldn't fore clothes on them.

Speaker 5 (20:33):
The last mill.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
That that would have happened to would have been Grandfall's Windsor.
The intent of the company at the time was to
shut the mill. Here we had a wood resource of
five to six hundred cuban meters of wood annually every
year would yield bed and had a power asset of
fourteen mags of power. So the intent was to shut

(20:57):
the mill and sell off those assets and get money
to give them the banks to give the peace and
quiet at least to the commanding and under the original
lease under the King, and I think it was in
eighteen oh three for those assets that was granted to

(21:20):
them for the purposes wording was for the purposes of
producing hop and paper. The PC government of the day
watched this on fold that I had been in on
meetings on this company.

Speaker 5 (21:36):
Was in our meetings on this.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
The government of the day was of course involved, and
the Government of the day decided on Lake what had
happened with four or five mills in Quebec and several
mills in Ontario where they shut the mill and kept
the assets, that the assets should be returned to the province.
So the government took the matter to the House Assembly.

(22:03):
And because Abbativity bowl Water shut the mill, that was
the decision of Abativity bowl Water, not a PC government
of any kind or any kind of government. Because I
made the decision to shut the mill and didn't think
shut production in the mill, the government. The government decided

(22:23):
to expropriate all of the assets and leadless order massive
all of the assets belonging to Avitaly, Bullwater lan Falls.
The bill, as I understand, it had to go to
the House of Assembly, and.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
I think I did.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
You can probably get your producers secondary. But I think
it went through three readings in one day, which is
hardly unusual, and it required the cooperation of the other
two parties in order to do that. And I've believed
the vote to expropriate it was unanimous, which include did
the NDP and the Liberal Party for rich Mister tving

(23:06):
Power is now the kendidate. There was no PC government
shut the mill and Grandfathers and took all its assets.
It was done to keep the assets within the province.
Others involved in some extent. I attended most of the
eatings and.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
I personally was in favor. But they were going to
shut the bill.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
Don't let don't let them walk away with the assets.
It was as simple as that. And it's not the
politics of it. I don't care about the politics and
that the people who vote as they see Pitt. But
in this area, this was a very emotional and very
impacting decision. That mill had an annual paper roll of

(23:52):
forty eight million dollars and it stopped one morning. We
had employees in the middle and I was living in
fifty one communities in new Land and the impact of
ever to Pooty shutting that mill was a big impact.

Speaker 5 (24:09):
It was very.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Emotional for families and to now grocery miss lead the
people and who was that actually shut that mill.

Speaker 5 (24:20):
It's just petty.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
Is just so wrong to do at any time, particularly
around to do at this time like I said the
people both, I don't care, but but to very candidate,
obviously youre doesn't know a facture has missed shrewed effects
so badly, and that is that, you know, I found

(24:45):
very disturbing. I think I think that needs to be corrected.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Okay, let me happen for just because it's a fascinating conversation.
So I think it's two thousand and eight when we're
talking about this, and you're right, got a unanimous support
in the House of Assembly. So then Premier William von
Jones was leader of the Liberal Party. Jack Harris I believe,
was the leader of the NDP at the time. And
you're right because at the time Abbitt B. Bowater was

(25:08):
trying to figure out as to how they approached servicing
that debt to keep the mill open and whether or
not there was going to be any contravention of international
trade laws where it it's even more fascinating here. So
the legislation at the time expropriated all the hydro assets,
which means Starlak all the timber rights to revert to
Crown Land to be managed by Nalcre at the time,
and then lo and behold every member of the House

(25:31):
of Assembly found out the hard way that the expropriation
actually violated international trade. The government of Canada had to
come to the table then Prime Minister Harper with over
one hundred million dollars to pay an international trade violation fine.
So it's wild. You're right, Abbitt be closed the mill.
Then the province pretty much handcuffed him in full, because
if they don't have hydro and they don't have forest rights,

(25:51):
then the mill is just the building.

Speaker 6 (25:54):
Yeah, that was That was basically it. I think if
I remember back to the time, the legal.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
Department would happen to be Bowater told them one the
original clause where they were granted these rights for the
purpose of producing pulp and paper, that if they ceased
to produce pulp and paper then then legally the problems
could take those assets back. That was that was the

(26:26):
legal argument at the time. I think the company's legal
department agreed with that.

Speaker 5 (26:32):
So you're right they went to NAFTA.

Speaker 4 (26:34):
They took another route and and hopefully UH could win
at NAFTA.

Speaker 5 (26:40):
Why don't they want to want or not?

Speaker 4 (26:42):
We'll never know what had happened. You're absolutely right, but
that happened was Harper was advised not to try that
at NAFTA because the question was if.

Speaker 5 (26:53):
He one that at NAFTA, what did it do for
all on their.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
Industries within the country that were covered by an after agreement.
So Ottawa paid one hundred and thirty million dollars to
have it to be bowlwater to get them to back away,
and you're absolutely right on that.

Speaker 5 (27:09):
That's the time that remembered.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
They took it, took Block fifty nine, which included the
mill itself, and man, it was talked with US two
hundred million dollars now to clean all of this up
and so on. So we went from all of that
and none of that happened. They buying a contractor to
demolished the mill, and as I understand that, the province

(27:32):
got something like ten percent of of whatever it.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
Was that was made. They were over a year.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Trucking the tractor trailers of grass and copper and aluminum
and stain and steel.

Speaker 5 (27:45):
They're running the.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
Mountains of it. I think it all went to Germany
for recycling, so the travels actually.

Speaker 5 (27:51):
Made money on that. Now left standing.

Speaker 4 (27:54):
There is all the beautiful civil culture forest and fourteen
about power project. So one apparently this liberal candidate the
same is he gone now quite to get these assets
back for us that this PC government has shut down

(28:16):
this mill. In essence, the PC government did appropriate the
property after the owners shut the mill. The owners had
filed for bankruptcy and under the bankruptcy protection they didn't
have to keep up the obligations bayed sever's pay to
the five hundred or so employees who were still in

(28:39):
still attached to that mill. We had loggers in communities
and Bishop aald Plain living leading tagles o Wood tifty
one communities. We had employees that was a big impact
on this province and forty million dollar annual payroll, big
impact on this province. But anyway, when this government took over,

(29:00):
the assets were there and both parties had said they
would use they would make those.

Speaker 5 (29:05):
Assets available to any other.

Speaker 4 (29:07):
Party who wanted to start up on operation of whatever
kind in central Newpland. And this Liberal government when he
took it over, it started to.

Speaker 5 (29:19):
Give them away.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
The forest resource portion of it, absolutely nothing in it.
Van Gaals thought, with Bishop Gals the central there there's
nothing in them. I think there's a won't get into
the exact number straight to be wrong, but a lot
of the woods going going east of Bloomfield, that way

(29:43):
more of the woods going out of the corner of them,
and Central Newkonland wasn't even considered by this liberal government.
They said they tried to. They put up an expression
of Sammill for any example of that was that no
one was interested. And that was the only statement I
know ever made. Well, if you had five hundred thousand

(30:05):
giving years of timber and you have fourteen major power
to try and give away to get some of the
bilissimon and you couldn't do it, that got to be
incompetence of the largest guy. It was never an attention
to do it, in my opinion. So when I was
age times to go, oh, he's going to get all
these assets.

Speaker 5 (30:24):
That's fact.

Speaker 4 (30:25):
I've been pushing the issue in Central New Plan now
for two years that the powers generation is still here.
The water turns into electionsity, electionsity goes to Saint Johns's
jerones in the money and nothing goes back.

Speaker 5 (30:44):
And I had been saying that forever.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
That power project never cost the province five cents. They
simply took it and the federal government paper as you said,
and you never cost me five cents and some consideration.
And I said this in a speech I made to
the public Labor Day and Premier John Hogan was right

(31:08):
in front of me when I made it, he was
one of the speakers, and I said, that needs to
be revisited and the communities of Grandfather Guns there, Bishop
Fouls and buck Is, where the generation is located, should
be part of some form of partnership on those power
projects because those communities have been from and that was

(31:31):
the basis for them being for over one hundred years.
And for Hydro simply take it and no benefits of communities.
I think it's a subject that should be looked at.
But another way, something should happen at the middle and
corner book shut down. I don't think Caldro should just
walk in and take the dear Lake power plant.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
No, we're paying like twenty seven cents for power from
Jeerlakes powerplant, which is another conversation in and of itself. Ron,
I'm really late for the anything else. Quickly before I
do have to go.

Speaker 4 (32:03):
No, I just said, very just appointing. These these are missing.
These are grossly misleading statements two people at a critical
time in an election week five or five or six
days of voting, and I'd be very upset with those
statements being made to people whose whose families were affected

(32:25):
by this. Just grossly misleading statements, and I think you
need to be corrected. And I thank you very much
for giving me an opportunity this morning.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
I appreciate your time around. Thank you, thank you, You're welcome. Baba.
All right, that's good break. You want me come back.
We're talking cell service Fishery MoU. Susan Green is there.
She was also in the Q yesterday, so we're going
to get to Susan sooner than later. She's with unseen
or unheard no longer. It's an EDGINE group of education,
group of parents with children that have complex medical needs
that we're talking costly. But whatever you want to talk about,
don't go away. Welcome back. Let's go to line of

(33:03):
force that you want to Susan Green with unseen and
heard no longer. Good more went up, get the bottom.
Good morning, Susan, are on the air.

Speaker 7 (33:11):
Good morning, Patty, thanks so much for having.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Me, happy to do it, Welcome to the show.

Speaker 7 (33:16):
Thank you, And as you said, I'm here representing the
parents of children who have complex needs. And that's a
subsection of disabilities of children who have the highest care
of its highest need of caregiving. So there's the multiplicity

(33:39):
of needs, but there the commonality is that they require
a high, you know, a high high caregiving. And I
think that one of our concerns is, as you found
in those who watch the leaders forums, we're well named
because we're called unseen and unheard, and to a large degree,

(34:02):
when people are discussing about big issues that concern the
whole province, our voice certainly does get lost, right and
I mean there are big issues facing the province, no question,
but this is a group of children and parents that
has been largely falling through the cracks for an extended

(34:24):
period of time. And I think one of our concerns
is that in the platforms and obviously we're a small minority,
but I think our biggest concern is that there was
an announcement just before the election about the new child
Health Model, which would be an amazing change because it's

(34:47):
talking about having a one stop two one one number
so people can go to that and be directed to
the services they need. But the other fact there is
that they're going to be introducing a new assessment tool
called core Care, which actually will base help not on

(35:10):
the family income but on the needs of the child
that's being assessed, which is a really big step forward
and we really commend the government. But the concerns are
two fold. The concerns is that we haven't seen anything
that have no idea if any other party will honor that.

(35:32):
And the other thing is that there's been no mention
in the platform if this is going ahead, and there's
no costing with new model. And the reason that's a
huge issue for our parents is that one of their
highest priorities is respect care. And you know, we just

(35:56):
survey among children with sorry parents that have children with disabilities,
and in that survey, which we haven't been able to
release yet, the reason is because it's eighty two pages
long and we've been trying to convince it. But you
have to understand that all of people that are working

(36:18):
on this are volunteers. They have children with high care
giving needs and they have little time to devote to this.
But anyway, if I can just share broad strokes, half
of the respondents in the survey said that their children
need in excess of one hundred hours of care per

(36:41):
week and that sounds alarmingly high, But when you look
at the fact that some of these children can't function independently,
they have seizures through the night, they need suctioning, they
also need other medical influences through the night, you can
see how that number of caregiving hours could be plugged in.

(37:06):
But I think our biggest care concern is there's no
respite care for these parents.

Speaker 8 (37:13):
Right.

Speaker 7 (37:16):
If you're a foster parent and you take on a
child with complex needs, you are automatically guarantee respite care
so that you have a break from caring for this
child's needs. And if a child is taken, if you're
in a crisis, so that if you're totally burnt out

(37:37):
as a parent, you can't respond any longer to the juggling,
you know, working full time looking after the needs of
your other children, looking after the needs of this complex child,
and you're in a crisis which often happens.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
And looking after yourself and looking after yourself.

Speaker 7 (37:57):
Oh absolutely, And I would say, by and large, for
the parents that I know, they don't, they don't and
so it takes such a physical and mental toll. I mean,
you know the reality is that they don't look after
themselves right, And this has huge effects not only on
the parents that's giving the care, but also on the

(38:20):
whole family because you know, when you have a child
who has such high priority needs and oftentimes you're having
to you're having to intercede from a medical perspective, you know,
you have to suction your child. You don't have the
ability to give a fair share of your time to
your other children's So not only are you do you

(38:43):
have no conperience to help to try to deal with
this burden of guilt for never being enough or being
able to do enough right. But I think the other
thing is that the model we have now is an
extremely expensive one because when with children are taken into care,
they have twenty four hour wrapped around services.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Right.

Speaker 7 (39:07):
He's extremely costly, and it would be much more cost
effective to provide respite care for parents so when they're
totally burned out, they can take a time you know,
they can take a time out.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Susan, just let me jump in here for one second.
I'm starting to connect some dots. Heare mentally because I
believe we probably last heard from you on the heels
of the Citizen Representative's report called by a Thread looking
at this exact issue. A bunch of recommendations came from it.
You mentioned respra care in the cost of I'm pretty
sure I recall one family reporting about thirty five thousand
dollars bill for respirare care in one year for their

(39:43):
child with the complex medical needs. He was also talked
about a Caregiver Recognition Recognition Act, which would codify supports
for families with children with these types of needs. So
this was a report back in twenty twenty three. I
was surprised it didn't get more attraction at the time
because mister Moss also went on to say that this
issue in the next ten years is going to get

(40:03):
even worse because of the shortfalls already in the healthcare
system and the numbers of children with these complex medical
needs in ten years from twenty twenty three. He described
a very dire situation, and it got very little traction.
We talked about it on the show a little bit,
We had a couple of calls on it, but then
it went by the wayside. But there's a major issue,
and you start off by saying you're a very small minority,
but you're a small minority with huge needs.

Speaker 7 (40:26):
Absolutely, and I think the one thing that the public
haster recognizes this is a growing problem. I mean, we
have the highest rate of children with neurological issues, right,
and it is increasing. And I think as long as
we are intervening for you know, at the level when
children are born, there's a lot more. I mean, we've

(40:48):
been very successful medically in saving you know, very premature babies,
but sometimes there are huge costs that come with that, right,
And we are finding that there's an increasing number of
people who are having, you know, children born with neurological problems,
which has a huge impact on their ability to function.

(41:12):
So this is not a problem that is going away, right,
And I mean I know parents who are my age,
and I mean I'm in my late seventies, and they
still have the issue of worrying about what is going
to happen to their child when they no longer can
care for them. And so you've got seniors looking after

(41:33):
adult children who are not capable of looking after themselves.

Speaker 4 (41:37):
Right.

Speaker 7 (41:38):
It's a huge issue, of.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Course, and I'm glad you called about it this morning.
I'll put it back on my radar for a conversation
ifrom when we speak to any of the political leaders
in particular. Susan, would you like to say anything else
because I do have to get going.

Speaker 7 (41:51):
Yeah, No, I would just like to say that I
think the Liberal government has sincerely trying to implement the
recommendations of the the report. But my concern is, I
guess a political one, because you have plans in place
and wonderful programs, but if there's not political will to

(42:12):
include it in the budget, it goes nowhere.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Absolutely right. Couldn't agree more. I appreciate your time, Susan,
thank you.

Speaker 9 (42:19):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
All right, bye bye, all right, just get a break
in where we go after this?

Speaker 10 (42:23):
Now?

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Sure don't go away. Welcome back to the show. Let's
go to line numbers out of six. Dave, you're holding up. Okay,
let's go to line number six cents. Uh Bob, you're
on the air.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
Hello, mister Dailey, Hello there. Now are you today?

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Top sholf today? How about you?

Speaker 3 (42:39):
I'm not doing very good. We got a problem here
amount power where there's an EPI letter outside at my
house and people are pulling up there and you're nating
out in the open, not going in the water running.
They're to pull up the open and your eady I
talked to Demir David Acre back at Regett a day
and he told me at that time to the process

(43:01):
we had to go through, and that to leave it
with him. Now, since that time, we hadn't heard nothing
from mister Aker, not a word. So I wonder if
you could reach out to him to get him to
command and explain to me why nothing can be done
about this problem. My wife can send you pictures of

(43:24):
a dozen people after urinating there. Now, this has been
on the go all summer and I don't understand what
amount perk councilor can't come down, put up some wooden
barriers with do not enter on us and then that
problem would be solved. And it's only very easy to
solve this problem.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yeah, offense, So Boby, it's as frequent as as you say.
The people are just pulling up to a vacant lot
for no other reason than to go in and do
their pee. That's right, sir, that's unbelievable, and that's pretty
disgusting to be honest.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Now, sometimes they comes and has a coffee, coming to
finish the coffee, then to head doctor P and then
they drive.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
Back what was once on this lot.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
It's an empty lass, and it used to be a
former hoteler but the hotel burnt down.

Speaker 2 (44:13):
Okay, I think I know where we're talking about. Then, yeah,
I mean for staterys. It's too bad that the city
has to intervene to keep people from doing what they're
doing in this vacant lot. So we're I'm happy.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
To reach out, excuse me, sir, but they're not after intervening.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
No, I said, it's a real shame that we have
to get the city to intervene to stop people from
peeing in someone's you know, in a vacant lot in
a residential neighborhood. It's unbelievable. I'll see what the city
has to say for themselves, because if it's simply as
you know, smile you're on camera, or put up a
camera and put up a sign that says, you know,
trespassers will be fined, or whatever the case we be

(44:49):
to try to deter people who are wanting to pee outside.
I mean in that area, there are plenty of retail
outlets where you can maybe go in and do it
behind the closed door.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Yes, certainly is gross. It certainly is gross, and leave
my wife are fed up with it. The last time
I was attacking mister Aker, I said to him, I said, well,
I'm fit up to here, I said, when I look
to him about it, and I said, if this was
happening an I say, to your house, it wouldn't be
happening to a very lie.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
No, I agree, And I'll see if I can get
comment from the City of Mont Pearl right away here, Bob.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
Yes, I'd love for him to command and talk to
you and let me know so I can actually hear
what he's going to say to get out.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Of it, okay, And we're happy to try to make
that happen too, because there's plenty of things we can
talk to them about, but these are one of those ones.
You talk about quality of life issues, right, and that's
that's a very wide ranging topic. But to have to
sit in the living room where's be in the kitchen
to look out the window to see someone whipping it
out or squatting down or coopying down to do with
their pee is just ridiculous. And I'll see what I

(45:55):
can figure out for you, Bob.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
Now, I talked to the police about what they say,
please said, they don't understand what if the counselor can
come down and put up some barriers with do that around. Yeah,
it's only easy to fix, easy, simple as anything.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Yeah, no argument coming from me, and I appreciate this.
I'll see if I can't get a comment for you, Bob.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
Thank you very much for your answer.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
You're welcome. Take care, all right. I mean that's pretty gross, right,
all right. A couple of quick notes. Traffic note to
begin with, clare VALARCMP responded to a serious collision on
the transplanted Highway approximately two kilometers west Jackspond Park from
Ronald Scrove. Motors should expect delays and a large mercy
response in the area. Please use an alternate route if possible.
Please slow down, move over for mercy responders, and travel

(46:42):
in the area with caution. Updates will be provided. So
obviously something very serious they're avoid at all costs. Another
quick one there was caller yesterday said that any time
an Elections NL office is open between now and election Day,
the fourteenth, you can go vote. Elections NL says that's
not true. So the last opportunity to vote was the
advanced polls a couple of days ago. The next time
to be opportunity to vote in person is down the

(47:04):
fourteenth at the declared voting stations. Let's take a break.
When we get back, lots of show left for you.
Don't go away, Welcome back to the show. Let's go
to line number one and say good morning to the
independent candidate running in Harvard Gray's Porto Grave and Carbon
narves for anique conception. That's Alison Coffin and good morning
Alison around the air.

Speaker 9 (47:24):
Well, good morning, Patty, good to chat with you again.
I heard you, Thank you. I heard you were asking
about what are the things that are important to people,
and people have been saying, well, well, it's been promoted
that the MoU is the big election issue. That's not
what I'm hearing at the doors. I'm hearing very different messages,

(47:48):
and it's much more personal messages. People are having difficulty
seeing kind of themselves in a lot of government decisions
that are being made and even acting accessing government services.
So a lot of people very concerned about access into
healthcare systems, seniors navigating that, people trying to access things

(48:09):
like workers comp an issue that I've been hearing more
recently and with a louder and louder voices. They knock
on law doors is from the people who had been
at the protest, the fisheries protests at the Confederation Building
where they were asking for a loan program that would

(48:31):
help out the owners of the enterprises, and they were
also looking for being able to access outside markets, and
they're feeling really frustrated about not having any action on that.
I've heard a number of people say that they'd try
to apply to this program and they can't even get
someone to pick up a phone. So just incredible first

(48:51):
rate that because it of course cuts into their livelihoods
that they have to pay my O interest rates, So
who ba's the key issue? Other things I'm hearing about
cell phone service. If you want to travel in with
a carbny.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
Amazing that as soon as you mentioned cell phone service,
we had a dodgy connection with your cell phone.

Speaker 9 (49:19):
Thanks for making a point, right, pretty great time.

Speaker 2 (49:21):
So okay, look we can talk about cell phone service
that is really quite spotty. I mean even here in
the city of Saint John's. It's really spotty in places
where it used to be wholly reliable. So like, what
are the solutions there? Do we suggest that the provincial
government pick up the ball that the big telecom companies
have dropped in adding more infrastructure towers obviously for instance,

(49:42):
or boosters that can be provided by the province. I
know there's a pilot project that went down to bur
Joe Highway last year to boost signals. They were talking
about ten locations this year. I don't even know where
they are. But what are people suggesting we do here?
Because I have a cell phone, I pay a cell
phone bill. I get frustrated when I out of my
own kitchen and it called drops. But what do we
think we have to do here?

Speaker 9 (50:05):
I think there's a greater connectivity. The solutions they want
another power obviously to improve connect This is not people
in their kitchens. This is people who you know, are
a parking lot and there's zero service if they want
to get service because maybe they don't have the landline
or they need to call in an emergency, and they

(50:28):
kind of know that if you go up to a
hill and kind of stand with their foot point in
the right direction and all your hand up in the air,
you're going to go to build a service. But beyond
that it's just totally inaccessible. So maybe, and I don't
know exactly what the solution might be. But if it
means cell phone boosters and joining that pilot program, I

(50:50):
think that's the next Songe idea. Does it mean subsidizing
cell phone service around That's a possibility as well, So
I think that is important if they weren't to consider,
say rebuilding the North door, which is an issue that
I've been talking about and repeated visits to people as well.
So that cell phone connectivity is really really important because

(51:13):
Matt's completely dropped as you go up the North store
as well, So if you want to get people there, well,
communications are going to be absolutely vital. And you know,
even just saying well let's talk about come to meet
me at my homestead which is currently burnt down, and
let's talk about how we're going to remediate this place.

(51:35):
So you can't even coordinate with like service providers who
are going to meet you in a particular area because
no one has cell phone service, right, So with some
pretty fundamental things there that do need to be addressed
with respect to cell phone service. And it's not just
oh my call got dropped along the way, it's like
I can't talk to anybody and this is the problem.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, I mean it might not be the be all
and end all. But it's also a public safety issue.
But just think about you know, trying to attract business
and or individuals or families that come to your community.
If I don't have high speed broadband or I can
and I have spotty, if not non existent cell phone
coverage for some of that might be the deal breaker.
Certainly in the world of business, it would be yep, yeah,
absolutely right.

Speaker 9 (52:14):
So this is this is a fundamental thing that it's
not just all we're irritated. It's to communications is absolutely vital.
I mean, that's one of the things that that's brought
the globe together. Like now we can call all around
the world except if you go you know, up the
North Store. Sorry, you can call anywhere else. So maybe
we need to kind of work on that and come

(52:35):
up with a smarter solution than whatever we currently have.
And if it means strowing a couple of dollars, you know,
a couple of one hundred thousand dollars or a million
dollars of cell phone, well is a tower, that's not
a bad solution, right, And you know, beyond that, other
fundamentals are and you want to bring if you want
to bring business in, you need to bring labor in,

(52:56):
and you want to bring young people into communities. All
of this stuff is absolutely vital. If you want to
encourage more people to come into the fishery, you're going
to have to start putting more money into it. Being
easier for people, more money and ideas and services in
easy for people to start new enterprises. We need to

(53:18):
get young people into our fishery.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
Yeah, some of that. Some of that is about transfer,
lease and license as much as anything else, which has
been longer complicated issue. And I mean, there is a
pot of money for fisheries, for technological advancements of what
have you. And that story always irritates me a little
bit because I remember that press conference at the Rooms
where we were told there was a four hundred million

(53:41):
dollar pot of money for fishery support for advancing tech
and all a bunch of other projects, and it was
going to be two hundred and sixty million or two
hundred and eighty million from the FEDS and one hundred
and twenty from US. Then lo and behold, it became
the Atlantic Fisheries Fund, but the same amount of money
in it, and we got carved out dramatically. So I
just want to add that because that always irritates me.
Anything else you want to say this morning, well we

(54:01):
have you.

Speaker 9 (54:04):
No, you know, I think affordability is a key thing.
I'm hearing at the doors that that's that's really important.
And in terms of the m o U, let's go
back to that, because I'm kind of the original, Like
this is the election issue. Many people are concerned about it,
the implications, the long term implications. Some people say hey, yeah,

(54:26):
let's let's let it go. But a lot of people
feel that it does need more oversight, it does need
more in depth analysis, and and they're not quite sure
what that necessarily looks. That's what I'm getting is that
they're looking for someone who they trust to go over
it on their behalf that they feel that doesn't have

(54:49):
that can come back to them and say, yeah, you know,
this might be a good part of it, and it
over here isn't but right now, and there's just an
enormous amount of information over the time complicated. There's lots
of people saying this side is the best and this
side is the best, And I think people are really
looking for, you know, can you parse this down to

(55:10):
some kind of some words that I'd understand and appreciate
and and you know, help make sense of it. I'm
not sure that's kind of what you're looking for, but
I think that's a really important thing. And then the
older part I guess that that they're having difficulty with
is is exactly what you said, is where is all
this money coming from? You know, we have massive debt

(55:31):
and and you know I'm hearing, well, the party is
promising all kinds of new stuff, but how are they
going to do it? And you know a lot of
that is going to hand on you know, are we
going to get billions of dollars come in from the
m o U. So so those two are very intricately related.
But on an individual door to door basis, people just
just you know, want to be able to have access

(55:53):
as those services and see them kind of really incorporated
into the VASI you know, all right, Yeah, you know
I had some security and knowing that I can get
health scaring, you know, leaving my cell phone service, and
the roads are going to be the paved properly and
regularly with guardrails and you know, brush cut back stuff
like that.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Yeah. Look, I mean that's why I said what I
say on the show all the time is you know,
it's not about one thing. It depends who you are,
where you are in your life circumstances as to what's
most important. Obviously, Allison, appreciate the time. Wish a good
luck out there, appreciate thank you, talk to you.

Speaker 9 (56:25):
Maybe I'm the fifteenth sounds good bye bye.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
There's Allison Coff running two different voting districts. Let's get
a break in, let me come back mo OU. Then
you welcome back to the program. It's going to line
number two. Good morning, Dave Verdie are on the air.

Speaker 11 (56:38):
Good morning, Patty. Good to drop you this morning.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Happy to have you on.

Speaker 11 (56:42):
I wanted to make some comments with the guard of
the debate last evening. I also wanted to speak about
your interview with Jennifer Williams yesterday. I had some comments
about that. First, with the debate last night, I was
disappointed that there was no commitment by the premier to
submit the MoU or the defendantive agreements to the Public

(57:04):
Utilities Board because in the past there's been there was
a restriction exemption ordered because of the fact that when
Gull Island was going to be developed back twenty years
ago by blind Tobin, there was an order taking the
pub out because none of the power was going to
be used within the province. But now with these developments,

(57:24):
and with of course the Upper Churchill itself, there is
a lot of power being used within the province, and
there's certainly a strong argument that the pub should have jurisdiction.
So what instead of that, what we're going to end
up with is another debate in the House of Assembly,
which I think serves very little purpose because the evidence
is not given under oath, there's no opportunity for cross examination.

(57:45):
I think that's really not the way we should be going.

Speaker 4 (57:49):
So that's just sort.

Speaker 11 (57:50):
Of just beginning. In terms of reaction may reaction to
the debate last night, certainly not very much coming out
of that debate that seemed to be very helpful to
the cause of transparency on the MoU. Turning to your
interview with Jennifer Jennifer Williams, the number of things came up.

(58:11):
One of the things that seemed to me would be
helpful if during this period there are people out there
who have a lot of questions, and I think my
suggestion I sent you an email Patty last night saying
why wouldn't we suggest to Jennifer and Hydra that they
would respond to questions on an expedited basis because under

(58:33):
Access to Information, the Hydro ADVI submit a request for
information under Access to Information at TIPPA, then they'd have
thirty days within which to respond. We need to get
information out very quickly. We also need to share the information.
So my suggestion was that the information people should ask questions.

(58:57):
Your reader, your listeners should ask questions to Hydra. They
should respond within twenty four hours. If they can't respond
within twenty four hours, they should indicate when they can respond,
and all of the responses should be posted online so
people can see what's being said. So I know you

(59:17):
responded to that. I thank you for that. I thank
you for responding, and I hope you will take that too.
Up with Jennifer, now, he did have some specific things
I wanted to ask in the course, I sent you
a list of thirty questions. I don't and some of
them are technical, but I wanted to just sort of
touch if it's okay with you, I want to touch
on two or three of those key points that I raised,

(59:39):
and I'll begin with the well comparison of rates. So
we got into a discussion yesterday with Jennifer about what
are the rates in the Quebec compared to here? And
I pulled up my power bill and my energy charge
here is fifteen point two cents, and when I take
into account my basic charge, it works out to seventeen

(01:00:01):
cents per killer what hour, including the energy charge and
the basic customer charge. You know, I understand Quebec, but
it's about eight cents killer what hour. So and we're
the way I see it is worth subsidizing in Quebec rates.
So let's understand, let's understand why this is. Let's get
some information about this out on the table so we

(01:00:22):
can understand, well, just exactly what why is it that
the rates are so much higher here than it is
than they are in Quebec. I mean, we have a
lot of hydro electric power, and I don't think it's
all about the scale. I mean, Jennifer talked about scale
being a big issue. I think there's a lot of
other issues that are much more dominant than scale. We
got they have lots of rural areas as well. There

(01:00:43):
are big province, They're very big province. And so anyway,
that was one point I wanted to make I just
thought that they could Hydra could be very helpful in
informing the debate.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Here the other thing, before we go any further, the
eight sense in Quebec is just power. So when you
round up to seven here with the service fee and
all the rest, eight cents in Cobect is simply just
the power issue, no fees associated. So they would be
paying slightly more than their eight cents as well, just
to bolster the point. But my question on that, and
I've tried to think about how we can approach that,

(01:01:15):
but some of our own self inflicted wounds and the
amount of money costs to keep Holy World alive and
expand opportunities or the eighth generating unit bay to sware
all these things, how should we think about what Quebec
pays because we kind of brought our own problems to
this particular dance. So they have their life circumstances and
their power bills, we have ours, and we both came

(01:01:36):
to the table with that current reality. So how do
we incorporate what Quebec pays other than if there is
ever a definitive agreement and if money ever does flow
and for the government to be able to make a
political decision to try to stabilize or control, and God
forbid brought our rates back. Other than that, I don't
know how the two coexist when you say the.

Speaker 11 (01:01:55):
Eight sense does include generation, it does include transmission, it
does include distribution. And of course they do all these
things within Hydro Quebec. Whereas we have two separate companies.
We have a Crown corporation, we also have a private
investor in corporation and so in our costs and you know,
we you're right, we do have some albatrosses. We have caught.
We have an aging hydro plant.

Speaker 5 (01:02:16):
But you know, Hydro.

Speaker 11 (01:02:17):
Quebec has an old nuclear power plant that they put
in place. They're now decommissioned Janaye and and so we've
all got there, you know, baggage. We all carry our baggage.
But you see the thing about it is they've got
this power from from our from the upper Churchill at
virtually zero cost. You're looking at two cents KILLO what
hour is for the for the main power project? Uh

(01:02:40):
and so that's uh that dominates. The has a big impact.
It's fifteen percent of the amount of power used in Quebec.
So it's a subsidy from newfoun Man and Labrador, because
because we don't get that money, and because if we
did get that money, our rates would be a lot
lower than they are now, and if we got a
full market rate, and of course on top of all that,
Patty the eight, it's not a market rate, it's a

(01:03:02):
manipulated rate because they manipulate that key power prices down
in correct. But also because if they show too much
profit under the equalization program, they'll lose seventy cents for
every dollar. So they're in their situation where they're trying
to keep their prices where down down for a number
of reasons. And we're in a situation we're paying top

(01:03:23):
dollar because we still have Hollywood, and we're still burning oil,
and we still got to the albatross or muscrat falls,
and the l L is still not fixed. But I
wanted to just move on to one thing that people
talk about is the numbers and the discount rate. And
I'm not going to get into the discount rate because
we can have big, big debates about the discount rate,

(01:03:44):
and I'm prepared to go into those debates. But the
number they're using is five point eight percent, five point
eight to two percent, and I'm not going to get
delved into that. What they've given us based on that
five point eight to two percent, which includes inflation, includes
the time value of money, includes a risk creamium, includes
all those things. And you can debate whether the inflation rate.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
Is high enough.

Speaker 11 (01:04:06):
And I agree with Mike Wilson that the inflation rate
of two percent for using is really too low. And
we look at the past fifty years it was three
point eight three percent, so really the five point eight should.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Be a higher number.

Speaker 11 (01:04:18):
But I'm not going to go down there that the
out possess a rabbit hole, and I've been there, and
what I do want to do is go to talk
about the five point nine cents, because Jennifer talks about
the five point nine cents. Now that's a counterfactual number.
It does not exist. It exists in an imaginary world.
But what she told us, and this morning looked up
the House of Assembly be answered the debate in January,

(01:04:41):
and what she told the House of Assembly was that
the five point nine per cent for KILLO, what hour
it generates based on the amount of power that we're
the hydro Quebec is buying from CFLCO. I can tell
you exactly how much said is the projection is. It's
a certain amount. It's one point two one point two

(01:05:01):
six five tur what hours. That's a meaningless number to
most people. But if you divide that number, what they're
telling us is that the actual configuration you know that
we're using, which is starts at one point six cents,
goes to thirty seven cents in two thousand seventy five,
that all measures up to thirty three point eight net
president value. And so when we divide that, you among

(01:05:23):
this amount of power over fifty one years, we come
up with two point seven cents. Wade Lock came up
with that same number back in January of Jason Mwes
came up with that same number. Planet n L waiting
for Uncle Narty came up with that same number. Gabe
Gregory came up with that same number. Michael Wilson came
up with that same number. And you know something, if

(01:05:44):
the five point nine equates to thirty three point eight billion,
and it's the same amount of power, so essentially, where
the five point nine is not a real number, it's
double the two point seven. So we can't just ignore
it and what I'm saying to you is that the
new finant Hydro needs go back as they have done

(01:06:05):
the reck word basically saying that the five point nine
cents is associated with thirty three point eight billion dollars
and nobody's debating the amount of energy that's being sold.
So I think that you need to go back and
rethink the answer that they've given to the five point
nine cent question, because I don't think Hydro Scott is right.
My arithmetic, very basic arithmetic, tells me that the five

(01:06:28):
point nine counterfacts were world is really two point seven cents.
It all comes back to two point seven cents gave.
Gregory did some refinement where he calculated took out the
amount of revenue under existing agreements under the sixty nine
power contract, the Guaranteed Winter Availability contract, other contracts, and

(01:06:49):
he backed that two point seven down to to a
lower number. I think is two point five cents was
the number, and even that has to be shared with
HW to correct. But anyway, my point the point is,
I think Hydro could do a great service here if
they were to give us them these numbers in present value,
because when you give when they give us numbers like
one hundred and ninety five billion dollars is payments from

(01:07:12):
Hydro CUBECK to CFL. Call everybody's eyes glaze is over
because what we need to do is convert that into
present value. And we have big debates about inflation. And
the Bank of Canada index is very helpful. You look
at the Bank of Canada Index from sixty nine to
the present. You know, our prices have gone up. The
places have gone up between eight and nine times. And

(01:07:34):
that's why people like me, I'm going to fixed income,
you know, and because I'm a pensioner and this hits
This shows you right, it cuts you right between the eyes.
The inflation is such a big distortion because very few
people have realized just how momentous inflation has been over
the last fifty years and not likely to be much
different over the next. But all I'm asking, what I'm

(01:07:56):
asking for Hydra to do within twenty four hours is
the general some present value numbers for the sales by
CFL go to Hydro Quebec, also for the sales to
Newfoundland level or Hydro the sixty five billion, and also
for the new developments. Let's see what all those numbers
come up to. Because the number associated with the thirty
eight thirty three point eight billion. That works out four

(01:08:19):
hundred and twenty three million dollars a year when you
take into account the reduction in revenue under other agreements,
and when you take into account the amount that goes
to hydro Quebec to four hundred and twenty three million,
and that's the amount of revenue that we get from
the liquor sales and a lottery licensing alettic licensing board.
It's sort of peanut money compared to the market value

(01:08:43):
of this power, which is somewhere between four to five
billion dollars based upon sixteen cents a killer what hour.
And that's not just from a mysterious replacement cost that
Michael Saba happened to throw out that comes out of
the financial the first six months financial quarterly financial statements

(01:09:03):
of hydro Quebec.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
They actually earned.

Speaker 11 (01:09:05):
Fifteen point eight cents to kill of what our under
export sale for the first six months of twenty twenty five.
So let's let's get some numbers, present value numbers. What
are the real numbers and we can have a debate
on it. But let's not wait because under a tip
that if I put I've probably filed more tip every
quest petty daily than anybody on this planet. Okay, over

(01:09:28):
the last ten to twelve years. And they will wait.
They'll make you wait thirty days. The under law they
can hold it on thirty little thirty for thirty days.
They can also do another thirty on top of that.
But I'm saying here we are six days before or
is it five days before the election, and the public
is out there is very very confused. Hydro can do

(01:09:50):
a great service here to inform the public. Let's get
some answers out under website somewhere from hydral answers to
somebody's important questions.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
Well, information is key, right, We're doing our level best
to provide as much information as we possibly can on
an extremely complicated issue. Very quick for me, and then
I'll give you the floor for a few seconds before
half to go. The replacement costs issue from Michael Saba. Look,
I heard what he said, and it's been repeated many
times from Hydrogobeca executives, but they have never told us

(01:10:22):
about that actually means, whether it means the replacement for
all of the power on their Churchill wherever, both Gull
and the upper expansion and all the transmission lines. Because
we don't even know what they're talking about. He can
throw that number around all the time, just the same
sales pitch that we're hearing from certain people in this province.
They're doing the same thing in the province of Quebec
with no real explanation about things like what that means,

(01:10:42):
because that's one area of people are really hanging their
hat on. Why are we only getting this when Michael
Sabea said that, but we don't even know what Savia meant,
and nor is he wanted to clarify.

Speaker 11 (01:10:52):
You're absolutely right, and the only way we're going to
get this information here is in a board room where
people are swearing.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
They're they're giving an oath.

Speaker 11 (01:11:03):
All their testimony is under oath. There are subject to
clock cross examination. Because you're right, we don't really know
where this sixteen cents comes from. Does it relate to
height new hydro developments or existing hydro developments, Does it
relate to another nuclear power plant? Could be a whole
bunch of things. It might be a composite number. And
the other thing we don't know, Patty, we don't really

(01:11:23):
know is that in today's dollars or is that in
twenty and forty one dollars. We can debate these things
till the cougars come home. And you know, we're in
a big cloud, a big fog, and the only way
to get out of that fog is to have a
hearings room. We have people asking questions or questions, and
they got to answer the questions under oath, and they're
going to be a cross examined by expert witnesses, and

(01:11:44):
the public is sitting in the room and the public
is watching what's going being said. And so if Jennifer
Williams says that it's five point nine cents, and some
other expert who is such as such as Michael Wilson
says no, it's two point seven cents, or doctor Locke
or whoever says it's two point seven sense, well, then

(01:12:04):
you get that information out on the table a public yesterday,
from your interview with Jennifer yesterday, the number she's put
out on the table is five point nine cents, and
I don't think that's.

Speaker 4 (01:12:16):
The right number. And then a number of other people,
you know.

Speaker 11 (01:12:19):
Saying the same thing, but they're being given the final word.
And so can I make one final thing, I very
go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:12:27):
One of my.

Speaker 11 (01:12:28):
Questions and you noticed this in my list of questions,
is I asked, specifically, was the testimony.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
Given in.

Speaker 11 (01:12:35):
January given under oath? I know the answer is it's not,
but you know something. But I also asked the question,
is the CEO of Hydro a public servant?

Speaker 12 (01:12:45):
Now?

Speaker 11 (01:12:45):
I was a public servant. I was a deputy minister
for twenty years. And one of the things that I
was I had to do that I was required to do.
My conscience bound me to do it was to speak
truth to power. And speaking truth to power means you
tell the full story, the whole truth, had nothing but
the truth, So help me God. And so you don't
just talk about the benefits. You just don't talk about

(01:13:08):
the upside.

Speaker 4 (01:13:09):
You talk about the risks, you talk about the costs.

Speaker 11 (01:13:11):
I'm not hearing anything about the risks or the costs
because those risks and costs are enormous, and those are.

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
Being hidden hidden by the public.

Speaker 11 (01:13:20):
Servants that we are paying, that we're paying very high
salaries to. And I think that this the public needs
to take note of the fact that the only way
we're going to get proof is through an independent public inquiry.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Appreciate the time, Dave, thank you, I thank you.

Speaker 11 (01:13:35):
For your time at Patty. You have a good morning,
you too.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Bye bye. All right, let's get to break in. I
think it's maybe cost living or maybe some review was
last night's leaders debate. Whatever you want to talk about,
don't away. Welcome back. Let's go one number five. Charlie,
you're on the air.

Speaker 12 (01:13:51):
Good morning, Patty, morning, you're welcoming this rain? Are you
getting much rain yet?

Speaker 2 (01:13:58):
Just a little sprinkling? The last time I looked at
out the windows getting so dark in Saint John's, I
can't really tell what the whether it's doing.

Speaker 12 (01:14:03):
To be honest, in the studio, Okay, we've hat, we've
had a few really good showers, and believe me, it's easy.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Yeah, it's needed around here.

Speaker 12 (01:14:10):
Too, Patty listening to I've been trying to follow closely
on the Michael Wilson and what Jennifer Williams are saying.
And now, Dave, you know, there's a lot of DejaVu
with muskrat falls. It sounds very much like what was
happening during that debate before the thing was signed. The obfuscation,

(01:14:37):
the over optimistic castaff the lack of clarity and denouncing critics,
not giving answers and so on. Do you find there's this,
there's this. It seems like the very same thing all
over again.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
Not really, And here's why I think that is. What
was absent with the Muskrat issue is that officials at
nalcore willfully, purposefully withheld information from the cabinet. I mean
not just from the general public, but from the cabinet.
We saw emails at the LeBlanc inquiry that pretty clearly
said do not tell anyone in the cabinet. Now that's

(01:15:12):
not exactly what it said, that's not verbatim, but that
was pretty much the essence of it. There was all
sorts of risk reports, one key one from SNC Lavelin
that sat on someone's desk may be read or on
red for years before we found out that actually existed.
And plus Muskrat was a goat alone project. I think
there's much more information out there. Whether or not people
think it's transparent enough or detailed enough for accurate or

(01:15:37):
misleading or exaggerated, I don't know, but this feels different
than Muskrat for me. Number one, we have more information,
whether or not we have it all, I don't know,
but we know full well that we were shielded from
muskrat information. Leading into final section, Well.

Speaker 12 (01:15:51):
I believe the lack of transparency and clarity is very
clear when you talk about he was just talking about
two point seven or two point nine is five point nine?
Shouldn't that be very clear? Shouldn't that be something that
you could look at and say it's one or the other,
rather than saying it could be this or it could
be that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
I guess the short answer to that is yes.

Speaker 12 (01:16:17):
The effect of inflation. They look at one crowd says
the dollar value is going to be very much down.
The other says it's not as bad as that. They're
saying that should be to me very clear. Who owns
the water rights? Who controls that? That seems to be
up in the air. So these are major things that

(01:16:39):
both sides were supposed to be experts are disagreeing on.
So the public is expected then in a few days
of vote on what's best for the province.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
I thought Jennifer Williams answer water Rice was pretty clear, though.

Speaker 12 (01:16:56):
Not according to the view of Michael Wilson versus Jennifer
For Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
Well, Jennifer Williams was on yesterday. I asked her specifically
about water rights, and the answer seemed pretty clear to me.

Speaker 12 (01:17:07):
Okay, that's not what he said, if my memory serves
me right.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Well, Wilson was on before Williams.

Speaker 12 (01:17:13):
Yes, that's what I'm saying. He commented on water rights
there and he seemed to have a big, big problem
with with the language. So if we're going to vote
on this, we're not. We're not really uh, we can
vote with any degree of confidence that we know what
we're voting for. So when you when you talk about
which is the big issue in the election, there are

(01:17:35):
all big issues. Scott Peck said, some things are overdetermined.
It's not one or the other, it's it's local issues
and this one certainly, but we have to have more
information on this and and and it seems to me
that they're they're they're holding back. But anyway, that's that's
just my take on it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
He just had a curiosity and this is I don't
know if it means anything or not. Have you read them, you,
Charlie by.

Speaker 12 (01:18:00):
Chats, No, I've done. Cole's notes from several people. For
me would be a waste of time for me, to
try to go through that. When you've got people like
Gabe and Dave and Uncle Very and them who can
pinpoint what's in there, for me to read it, it would
be more confusing, is my view. So I'm looking at

(01:18:23):
what Jennifer Williams is saying and what these other people
are saying, and weighing that that's the best I can do. Patty.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
Well, the reason I read it, and I've read it
probably half dozen times, is it just gave me, well,
it's hopefully a base starting point to even understand anything
about it, and then consequently for me able to be
able to formulate a question, because if I hadn't read it,
I think I'd be flying completely blind and I'd be
entirely ineffective to speak to anyone about it.

Speaker 12 (01:18:51):
Well, you've done the work for us there, which is good.
Most people, I know, I'm not going to read that MoU,
but they are going to listen to experts on either side,
So I thank you for doing that. I've got I've
got three or four books going to one time, and
I'm not I'm not prepared to drop those for the
m o U thing. I'm sorry anyway, can I I'll
go to something else of my name, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
You annute or so go ahead, Charlie.

Speaker 13 (01:19:15):
Uh.

Speaker 12 (01:19:16):
The the deal they're talking about the I wish they
stopped calling it a piece deal. It's it's a cease fire,
which is good because Adeles start to get in and
the Israelis stop sending bombs down on top of children
so on. So this is all good. But the talk
about this is if this this is the beginning of
the beginning of the beginning, there's so much more at stake.

(01:19:38):
The Israelis, for instance, are not going to entertain a
two state solution. They're not gonna have enough land left
in in in in the West Bank to really form
uh truly modern state. And those settlers are going nowhere.
In fact, they're going to keep building those settlements. So

(01:20:00):
when they talk about this is such a great deal
and so on, it is for the ostriches and for
the reasons I just mentioned, But please don't call it
the peace deal. It's very very far from it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
Well, we're certainly, no, we're close to it. I mean,
what's the likelihood we'll hear of more devastation and bombs
while we're in this phase one of the peace deal?

Speaker 12 (01:20:22):
Okay, Patty the dead thing that you keep bringing up,
and I'm glad you do. You can see what's wrong
with our democratic system. The system is geared to the
here and now, to the four or five years that
lady came out what was the name day Moyer, I think,
and said we have to we have to act, we

(01:20:44):
have to act now, and nothing has happened. Both parties
are just full steam ahead, giving people what they think
they'd like to have, and here to get votes. And
when you talk about for our children and grandchildren, it's
not just that it's happening now. We're spending that billion
now that could be that could be used for all
these services that people want. And I see the same

(01:21:07):
thing with with with with climate change. When when people
have to think beyond the every day, uh, it just
doesn't happen. And then governments mirror that. And you take corporations,
what does the day want? That's the other big group
in our society that the rule things agreed present day
shares and so on. So who's looking out for the

(01:21:29):
future of us and and and where things are going?
Absolutely no major group in society is doing that. That's
my feeling anyway, It.

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Certainly feels like that. There's no doubt about it. Charlie.
I appreciate your time. Just very quickly. You see here
juggling in two or three books. What are you reading?

Speaker 12 (01:21:48):
I'm reading one one on the Middle East title Escapes
It right Now, and another one on the tech world.
I forget the titles. I should I should know that
the tech world? What what? What? What happening there? I
noticed they said at one point the parents like the
the Facebook lady what's her name, Ryl, she's second to Zuckerberg.

(01:22:15):
Parents who are working there are the technical people. They
don't have their children on the screen. That they limited
very very much. They're quite aware of how dangerous this
is for their children.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
There's people who.

Speaker 12 (01:22:28):
Know day to day what's happening. I thought that was
very good. And I'm reading light one on Trump and
I forget what they want. The fourth one is but
anyway whatever suits me in the afternoon to pick up
if I'm feeling in a light mood, you know, memoirs
to Anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:22:48):
Well, those books could be titled one tinder Box, two
Texts Not Your Friend, and three Madness. Yeah, appreciate Charlie, Okay, thanks,
don't go away. Welcome back to the program. MAGONA line
number six Sturday is automatically nine numbers exploring Jim Power

(01:23:09):
around the air.

Speaker 14 (01:23:11):
Good morning, Sure, my name is Jim Power. Look the
Uniform Services Committee and every year we put off a
dinner with the Uniform Services. Let you just explain to
the you know you're listening audience, what that is, who's
eligible and if you'd like to attend, how you could
get a ticket to it. There's uniformed Services Dinner was

(01:23:33):
actually started sixteen years ago. We missed two years for
COVID and so now we're in our fourteenth year. It's
generally open to a uniform services aged in a frontline
critical response. It's a social evening. It's based on a
regimental dinner style format and spouses their partners are welcome.

(01:23:54):
Generally the groups that are included in the dinner and
these are either served or those that have retired, and
that includes volunteer fire departments as well, military police, coast Guard,
fire departments, penitentiary guard sheriffs, ground search and rescue, paramedics,
wildlife fisheries, etc. So we've had dinner for quite a

(01:24:20):
while and it's the build partnerships between groups and we
all get together in a function by ourselves. This year
we have the honor to have the special guests, Lieutenant
Governor Joan Marie Ailward a tend with us. The dinner

(01:24:41):
itself is on the twenty fifth of October. It's at
the Patent Building in Pleasantville. The cocktails are at six,
dinner is at seven with a dance to follow. We
have a prime rib dinner. The cost is sixty dollars
per person. So if anybody would like to know if

(01:25:01):
they're eeligible or how to get a ticket, all they
have to do is contact USV Tickets twenty twenty five
at gmail dot com and we will get back to you.

Speaker 4 (01:25:17):
Normally, every year a.

Speaker 14 (01:25:19):
Separate unit takes a lead on the dinner. Sometimes it's military,
sometimes it's police. This year we decided to do a
little differently and the committee itself is running the dinner
because what we decided to make this dinner is attribute
to the frontline workers that fought the forest fires that
we had over the summer into the fall. So it

(01:25:41):
would be nice to get as many of those people
out as we can, and that included a lot of
different organizations, the firefighters, police, Coast Guard military, and there
are probably others that I don't know about, so we
certainly wanted to reach out to those people to tell
them that there are certain invited to this dinner. It's

(01:26:03):
a formal do based on the military traditions and stuff.
So for some people that have intended such an event,
I think they would appreciate it. And I know you've
been again speaker at our dinner previously, so I know
you're well aware of it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
It's a lovely evening out. I'll add correctional officers to
that list as well, because I think I've made a
wise crack about how dangerous, so this is to be
a correctional officer as well. It's a lovely night out,
so the members of the military and other professionals will
be in full mess dress, which is lovely to see.
It is a formal for the civilians in who are
going to be at the dinner itself. The loyal toast

(01:26:43):
is actually very impressive. There's a place set aside to
remember those who have fallen. It is really a lovely
formal night out. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 14 (01:26:52):
Well, thank you very much, sir, and they once again
the contact email is USD tickets to zero two five
at gmail dot com. And if you just even have
a question about it, if you email us there, we'll
get back in. If you're kind of guess you on
whether you're going to qualify to come give us an

(01:27:13):
email and we'll we'll give you all the information you need.
And it's sixty dollars per person. And sir, thank you
for your time.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
I appreciate yours. Jim, thank you, sir, thank you, bye
bye bye. Yeah, it is quite a nice night out.
So they've certainly upgraded this year from me to Joel
Marie Ailer at the Lieutenant governor. Not bad. All right,
let's check in on the Twitter real quickly. We're VOSIM Openline.
You can follow us there email addresses open LINEAFOSM dot com.
When we come back, tons of time for you to
talk about whatever's on your mind. Do not go away.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
You were listening to a rebroadcast VOCM Open Line. Have
your say by calling seven oh nine two seven, three
fifty two eleven or one triple eight five ninety eight
six two six and listen live weekday mornings at nine am.

Speaker 2 (01:28:03):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go. Line number four
Jimmy around the air.

Speaker 15 (01:28:07):
Hello, Hi, hey, Patty. So I'm here in downtown Saint
John's right now looking at the Cape Roger. Newfoundlanders at
a certain age who know the symbolic value of this
boat for making an example and standing up for what's right.
As a result, it's a symbol of pride in our country.

Speaker 3 (01:28:29):
Today.

Speaker 15 (01:28:29):
I want to talk about the Freedom Flotilla and what
the three newflent Landers aboard are doing and what we
can do to help them. That flotilla is meant to
break the Israeli blockade of Gaza and provide food and
medical aid to the people there. The reason they are

(01:28:50):
doing that is because Israel is committing genocide. It is
not a conflict, it's not a war. One participant is
a small strip of land that has been reduced to rubble,
that has a block kaid off the coast. All aid
is prevented from getting in. This is you know, at
first I thought this was complicated that you know, twelve

(01:29:11):
hundred Israeli civilians were killed on October seventh, two years ago,
two hundred and fifty hostage subducted. But in the aftermath
of this, what we have seen five out of every
six people killed in Gaza have been civilians. It's over
fifty five thousand, maybe closer to one hundred thousand by
some estimates. They are being absolutely dehumanized by the Israeli regime.

(01:29:35):
We have government ministers comparing Palestinians to human animals, saying
they're not human. We have former army officers saying that
fifty Palestinians must be killed for every Israeli citizen that
was killed on October seven. Well, not only is that obscene,
but that's already happened. And more, they're being starved. All

(01:29:56):
aid is prevented from being there, getting into the country,
All the farmland as bombs, and there's a blockade off
the coast. They only have three miles. How can you fish?
How can you eat with a small strip of land
with only three miles of coasts? Even before nineteen seventy seven,
and when the law changed in nineteen eighty two, we
had a twelve mile leven and we changed that. We

(01:30:18):
acted as Canada and the world changed. So think about
the three Newfoundlanders aboard are no longer board, but in
an Israeli prison. Sadie needs Yukita Stapuleton and Devanie Ellis.
They were abducted illegally in international waters. They're likely being
tortured in an Israeli prison. You know, the abuse suffered
by the other earlier flotilla members is testament to this.

(01:30:41):
They've insufficient food and water. They've been forced to sleep
on the floor in rooms infested with bed bus looking
out at a prison yard paster glorifying the fact that
Gaza has been reduced to rubble. Armed commandos Virginian dogs
sicked on them when requesting medical assistance, beating them in
the head if they look up from the floor. Especially,
women have been subject to sexualized degradation at the hands

(01:31:02):
of Israeli forces and correction officers. Greta Tunberg was forced
to kiss the Israeli flag which is draped in and
forced to take selfies with one of the ministers responsible
for this genocide. And the thugs holding your captives and
even the men that them stripped and bound with zip
ties and blindfolded before being sent to these prison caps.
So are we going to stand by and let this

(01:31:24):
happen to our fellow news and Landers, to our fellow Canadians.
Mark Kearney, which side are you want? You are the
Prime Minister, you direct our military. You are responsible for
the protection of Canadians abroad being illegally abducted by a
foreign military in international waters while they were performing lawful
activities and are now being tortured in prison camps meant

(01:31:44):
to house terrorists.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Yeah, I don't know if they're being tortured or not.
But what do you suggest now?

Speaker 4 (01:31:49):
We don't know, that's the problem.

Speaker 15 (01:31:50):
We know that previous, previous members of previous fotellists have
in torture and they show courage to risk us to
bring food and medical aid to Palestinians being shot and
starved to death, suffering war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.
What courage are we showing in the face of that
unimaginable suffering to let that happen to our fellow Canadians.

Speaker 4 (01:32:10):
None?

Speaker 15 (01:32:10):
What can we do?

Speaker 3 (01:32:11):
So?

Speaker 15 (01:32:12):
Why didn't we send Canadian Navy and Coast guardships to
perfect Sadie, Nikita and Devning, And why don't we send
them now? Why can't we send the message to Israel
and the world that this genocide must end and we
are willing to take risks to see it in Why
don't we load the holds of those ships with food
and medical aid, carrying doctors and aid workers. We might
have received news of ceasefire this morning, but we know

(01:32:34):
that these talks can halt unexpectedly, and from earlier this year,
ceasefires can evaporate overnight. We need to keep the pressure
on Israel to end their occupation of Gaza, let aid
in immediately and stop committing genocide against the Palestinian people.
We have to ask Mark Kearney, which side are you
on and which side of history you want to be on?
Less than a year into office and you have the

(01:32:57):
power to help catalyze the ends of the genocide, or
you have the power to wash your hands of it
and say that's not my problem, but it's everybody's problem.
It is a crime against life itself. Are you on
the side of the genocidal Israeli regime or are you
on the side of three brave Newths and Landers risking abduction,
torture and worse to stop this genocide. But it's not
just Mark Kearny, He's not the only person in Canada

(01:33:19):
with the power to help end the suffering of the
Palestinian people. To these civilians, women and children, listeners You
can write your MP. You can write the Prime Minister.
You can call in here and elsewhere. You can demand
that the genocide must end and that we must not
continue to be complicit with our silence. This is municipal election.
We municipal governments have a lot of power. I want

(01:33:39):
to thank the city, especially Maggie Burton who brought forth
the motion in their last council meeting. Thank you to
Danny Green and the six other councilors who passed the
motion the other night calling in Canadian government to immediately
halt all the remaining arm sales between Canada and Israel.
The municipal governments have more power than this. They control
municipal roads, the roads that go to most of our
homes and businesses. If the federal government, the Department of

(01:34:00):
National Defense is unwilling to defend Canadian nationals against foreign aggression,
then the city should shut down the roads to the
Department of National Defense facilities in town, the Coast Guard,
the Navy, Pleasant phil and any other Department of National
Defense buildings. The Department Military will not detect their citizens
from attack by foreign governments, then we should send a
message to mister Kearney and shut his military out of

(01:34:21):
the city and filled he sees the lights. It's not
the military problem, the men and women in uniform, it's him.
It's the leadership of Canada. And similarly, the Dave Acre
and the council in Mount Pearl could shut down the
roads to the Kraken plant. This is a underwater robotics
company that sells to the Israeli Navy until they stopped
selling to the Arali Ocean Forces. Their stock price has

(01:34:42):
gone up over five hundred percent in the past.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
Year and a half.

Speaker 15 (01:34:46):
It was one dollar a share a year and a
half ago and it's six twenty five a share today.
They can afford to lose a small slice of that business.
It is not worth being complicit in genocide. Eventually we
may not be able to do much, but we can
do what we can. We can break the silence. You
can say the word this is a genocide and it
is unfolding in real time. But it can be stopped

(01:35:06):
in real time too. You can call your empty, write
your empty. The Prime Minister fall into talk radio programs, Yes, Patty.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
I was gonna I'm not trying to put words in
them out. This is just a coming in the form
of a question. Were you suggesting that Canada intervene militarily.

Speaker 15 (01:35:21):
I'm suggesting that Canada sends Canadian Navy and Coast Guard
ships to predict Canadian citizens doing lawful things in the
international waters they are being attacked by a foreign government.
I think we need to take risks. We need to
take risks to end genocide, and maybe it's worth the
brinksmanship of seeing whether Israel will fire on Canadian ships.

(01:35:42):
And I can tell you if we send chips over there,
they won't be only Canadian ships by the time they
get to the coast of Gaza. I would imagine countries
like Spain and possibly Ireland and others would be galvanized
by such an action, and it would put an immense
amount of pressure on Israel because they can't fire on
NATO vessels without risking a huge diplomatic conflagration. It would

(01:36:08):
put the ball in their course and it could potentially
bring aid closer to Gaza and possibly protection to any
future Canadian citizens who go over on on flotilla's which
will continue until this genofide end.

Speaker 2 (01:36:20):
Yeah. I think the Israelis are probably emboldened by the
United States being firmly obviously in their corner. So, but
Spain has already deployed chips to that exact region based
on the flashbanks will drop down the Simood flotilla a
couple of weeks ago, so they've already taken that particular
step in that particular chance. I don't know if we're

(01:36:41):
going to deploy to stand with them.

Speaker 15 (01:36:44):
It would be a powerful symbol to see the red
white in the Maple League, a symbol of peace in
the world, sailing toward Gaza and saying that we are
not going to be complaced in this and this is
an attack on all of humanity. If Israel is going
to continue attacking the palace and people, they will have
to go as well.

Speaker 2 (01:37:02):
I appreciate your time and your perspective this morning, Jim,
thanks for doing it.

Speaker 10 (01:37:06):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
Patty, You're welcome. Bye bye. All right, let's get to
the break. We'll weekme back. We're gonna have a reflection
on last night's provincial leaders debate, the MoU whatever you
want to talk about, don't go away, welcome back to
the program. Let's go to line number two. Say good
on to the re elected War two counselor. Here in
the city of Saint John's. That's Tom Davis.

Speaker 10 (01:37:22):
Tim you're on the air, Hey, Patty Ward four.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
Ward four. I don't know why I do that, because
I know better I know you do.

Speaker 10 (01:37:31):
Listen first, your first off, obviously, thank everybody who came,
got out and voted and supported myself and also my
opponent Greeny Greg did it. You know, she did a
great job. And I really you know, when I looked
at my colleagues who got acclaimed, at first, I was
like a little jealous, but then once I got out

(01:37:51):
knocking on doors, I'm really glad that there was a contest,
and I really appreciate her stepping up at the last
minute to make it a contest, So so thank you
to her, and also obviously welcome to a whole bunch
of new faces, five new faces. It's a big change
for me when I kind of I make the analogy
that I got inserted into it already baked cake back
back two marches ago, and now I get to be

(01:38:14):
put into a cake that's gotta now bake in the oven.
So I'm really looking forward to meeting and working with
all these new people.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
Congratulations on your reelection. I think shakeup is healthy and
we'll see how this edition of the council performs, I
guess in due time.

Speaker 10 (01:38:30):
Yeah, well, all everybody who got reelected, you know, like
I had thirty nine percent people didn't vote for me,
and you know there was sorry yeah, no, no, sorry.
I had twenty nine percent people didn't vote for me,
and you know Danny and Ron had had even more
than that didn't vote. So there's a message there that
I'm taking the heart and people want to call me

(01:38:53):
up and tell me why they didn't vote for me.
I'm love to listen to their perspective. So anyway, yeah,
I agree with your shakeup is good and I'm looking
forward the fresh minds and face. I'm also really happy,
you know that I was a little worried that we
weren't going to have good representation from you know, all
a different bunch of voices, and lo and behold, we
did and it's you know, we've had a few females

(01:39:14):
leaving and we've almost replaced them all, so you know,
they're different. But it's great to have that perspective around
the table too. You're here, So I'm going to switch
over to the water issues. During the summer, a few
times I was bringing it up, and residents were mentioned
to me too, but it just seemed common sense that
you know, we might you know, we might be heading
down road and you know, now we here we are,

(01:39:37):
and we really really need rain. But in the meanwhile,
we need to get this message out. I actually two
different homes I went around last night. I was I
was picking up signs. I always do this as an
election before I go to sleep. I took up all
my signs, and actually it took me eight hours last night.
Was that until three o'clock in the morning. However, when
I was going around, two different residents were water under lawns,
and I took the time to communicate to them, weren't

(01:40:00):
they really weren't aware that we really do need to
look at extraneous water, you know, especially watering lawns. Really,
if people could really curtail that, because it's potentially last year,
we actually weren't a little not as bad, but we
were pretty tight last year. Then we got all that
rain in November and it refilled the reservoirs. And there's

(01:40:22):
no guarantees we'll get that rain. There's no really big
rain in the forecast. So if people can really I know,
you started off in your preamble about it, but just
double down on this. I mean, you know, water is life,
and I never thought I would. I always thought we'd
be a climate oasis, that water would be the one
thing that Saint John's and Newfoumunt Labor would never have
to worry about. And here we are all over the
place with that challenge. And so please people. And also

(01:40:45):
you also mentioned this about leaks. Walter Harding, who you know,
I'm really disappointed didn't get elected, but a great guy.
He was going around and he noticed on a new
filand of Labator housing that there was this leak constantly
out of a side tap, and he reached out to
the flat of our housing and they fixed it. But
that had been like that for years. So it's a
great opportunity for either businesses, individuals and government if they

(01:41:05):
know that there's leaks, Like, let's make this the excuse
to get that dealt with.

Speaker 2 (01:41:10):
Fair enough, I mean, the issue regarding new flannd Lavador housing,
the number of units that are boarded up and some
of the ongoing maintenance or lacked their off issues. You know,
I'm not suggesting we add more people to the public
service necessarily. But when we have a crunch on housing
and the wait list of over two thousand people trying
to get into New flann Lavador housing, maybe more trades
people on staff to keep these units in better repair,

(01:41:32):
add some more responsible unit holders or owners or renters,
whatever the case we be. It could be done a
lot better. But here we are with just an extraordinary
crunch in the housing world. But else you want to
talk about while we have you.

Speaker 10 (01:41:44):
Tom, Well, I'm taking it off the council head, firmly
taking it off, and I want to go a little
bit into the most cred falls.

Speaker 16 (01:41:53):
You know.

Speaker 10 (01:41:53):
I think it's really important that everybody you know weighs
in on it and tries to analyze the best academy.
And you know, the Liberals have decided to make this
an election issue, and it's very important to realize that
Jennifer Williams didn't decide to make this election issue. You
and I didn't decide to make election issue. That was
a conscious choice to make an election issue. I think
I think there's two things that will come out of that. Firstly,

(01:42:15):
I don't think conservatives and ndps necessarily should count votes
for them as a vote for them. There is going
to be a lot of people who might normally have
voted liberal. I know I've spoken to them who just
can't in good conscience do that because of this MoU
and the way it's structured. But the other thing that's
come out of it is that Newtonlanner's laboratories can indeed
have complicated conversations in the public space. You've proved it

(01:42:37):
every day on this show with normal and also people
like Michael Wilson. I really want to applaud his courage for,
you know, for standing up is really nothing to gain
and I'm sure lots to lose by doing by doing
what he did with you on Tuesday. And but the
moral stories, we can have complicated issues. We hear people
talking about debt and deficit on your show. We don't

(01:42:59):
hear politics talking about it. But I just want to,
you know, just let everybody realize, including politicians, like the
people can if you spend the time to educating them,
which I'll argue although Jennifer, again she's super smart, Jennifer
Williams super smart, a proud new Filanta and laboratory, and
you know, I will argue that although there's lots of
information there for whatever reason, there's there's confusion amongst really

(01:43:23):
smart people like Michael Wilson. I mean, if you and
I had all the money in the world and we
wanted to go out and fire someone to give us advice,
he'd be one of those people who we would hire.
And to have an hour fifty seven minutes of his
guidance and wisdom and analysis on Tuesday is priceless. And
the fact that the Premier has not entertained and hasn't

(01:43:44):
called him to find out what the issues were says
a lot about it. But I want to get into,
you know, my take on it. There's and I can
go into a million different sides of it, but I want
to focus on who are the primary beneficiaries? And I
want to focus on the old Upples Upper Turchill deal
because because a lot of times and the expansion of
the existing Upper Church I'm gonna stay away from Goal Island.
Jennifer made some good points yesterday and I'll let them

(01:44:06):
say where they are. But from the Upper Churchill point
of view, who will be the primary beneficiales? There will
be some new flant employees, some construction employees short term,
and then a small number of permanent people. But one
thing I think we need to step back and politicians
need to realize this very firmly. Little Johnny and Jane
who are down in their parents or grandparents' basement playing
video games, are not going up to Labrador and work

(01:44:27):
in cold steel and poor and concrete, up in the flies,
up in the cold, up in the heat. They don't
have the skills, they don't have the experience. So a
lot of the people who are unemployed or underemployed are
not leaving income support, They're not leaving stereotypical places, tourism places.
Isn't going to go work up in Labrador. So that's
the first thing that people need to realize, Like where
are these trades people going.

Speaker 3 (01:44:46):
To come from?

Speaker 10 (01:44:47):
Are they going to I mean, we don't have enough
trades people to build homes. We don't have enough trades
people to rebuild conception of Bay North. Will they come home, maybe,
but you know this is not like it's next door.
You're still gonna have to get on an airplane. You're
still to stay on a camp when they're building, you know.
So we don't want to over romanticize the jobs that
may or may not be given the new Folaners and Labradorians.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
But at the same time, Tom Trades and I, representing
a fourteen thousand employee skilled trades worker, say seventy percent
of their workforce is under or unemployed, so obviously there's
someone around to do the work.

Speaker 10 (01:45:21):
Yeah, except they're also not supporting the Liberals and this MLU.
It's very interesting. I find it very interesting that they're
making decision totally Inbata in order and staying out of
the MLU conversation totally and supporting the Conservatives. You would
think you'd draw a straight line if and I understand
why they don't want to wait into this, but you
know what I said about working in Labrador, the flies,
the temperatures, the remoteness of it is something that people

(01:45:44):
need to weigh on. This job thing is the same thing.
Jennifer Williams, by the way, should never utter the words job.
She's not a politician. She should never say it. That's
the first thing I'll say directly to her. And I
said it to her, and I'll say it to again.
I keep repeating it. She's not a politician. She shouldn't
be selling this based on jobs. And from an economics
point of view. We already have a problem with not
being able to affordably build homes on New Follanta, Labrador,

(01:46:05):
and I'm not sure how taking more trades people and
increasing demand for them, which we experience investments. So I
just want to say so, obviously, employees Labrador people have
been one of the biggest primary beneficiaries, obviously directly through
jobs like the mining, but also indirectly because, as I
said last week, three point one five cents per kilo
hours what they pay for electricity, which is an incredibly
inexpensive We talk about Quebec getting if for eight cents,

(01:46:27):
well imagine three.

Speaker 3 (01:46:28):
Point one five cents.

Speaker 10 (01:46:29):
It's incredible how cheap that is. Like you would literally
have fifty dollars power bills and one hundred dollars power
bill will be the same as your five hundred dollars
power bill. People will need to kind of wrap their
head around it. And I don't understand that how the
same politicians, the same company can can You know they
argue because it's generated, well, when we're not using muskrat falls,
like should we be paying fifteen cents, we're really twenty
five because we're mitigating it. So you know, again that's

(01:46:51):
that's another thing I want to But obviously Quebec. Quebec
is obviously been the primary financial Yeah, I go on.

Speaker 2 (01:46:55):
Sorry, Oh, I'm just going to say it's eleven thirty one,
so we're going to have to wrap up pretty quick.
Final thoughts.

Speaker 10 (01:47:01):
Okay, Quebec has a political problem, and I realized that's
really ultimately this problem. The fact is that how would
they how can they ever tell their people that that
they got to take eight that eight cents is going
to go to twelve cents or fourteen or fifteen cents.
But the reality is, that's life like reality for all
of us, including the residence Nufland Labrador, is that we're
spending more money than we can't can we afford. We
need this money way more than Quebec needs the money.

(01:47:23):
So we need the wrapper head around the fact. And
also Jennifer Williams said that fifteen percent of our power supply,
will Doug may say it says it's seventeen. I'd like
to have exact numbers out of hydro and anyway, so listen,
I've just thrown it out there. People got a big
decision to make voting, and I really think the MoU
is how people should make the decision, no blinders.

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
Thank you, appreciate your time. Thanks Tom, take care of
one bout too. Bye bye, Tom Davis war for counselor
Let's take a break, going to get back a little
bit more MoU a couple of reflections on the debate,
including Nancy Reedo's the executive director at the Coalitions of
Persons with Disabilities, and then maybe time for you don't
away the Tim Power Show.

Speaker 1 (01:48:00):
Joining the Conversation weekday afternoons at four pm on your VOCM.

Speaker 2 (01:48:05):
Welcome back to the program. I'm not going to line
number two. Good morning, Seamus, oh Reagan, you're on the air.

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
Good morning, Patty, have been a long time. Good to
talk to you.

Speaker 2 (01:48:12):
Happy to have you on.

Speaker 13 (01:48:15):
First of all, on the debates last night, I tried
to watch as much as I could. I thought the
Premier did a very good job in executing his case,
particularly on.

Speaker 3 (01:48:25):
The MoU and that, Patty, really.

Speaker 13 (01:48:27):
Is what I wanted to talk to you about today.
I've been around this actually a lot longer than people
may think. I was working with Brian Tobin. I was
his policy director way back in nineteen ninety eight when
the Foundations I think of what is here before us
right now. We helped hammer out on Gull on a
number of other things. I worked with Malcolm Roe, who's
now programing from Lander on the Supreme Court of Canada

(01:48:48):
on that.

Speaker 3 (01:48:49):
And because the.

Speaker 13 (01:48:50):
Indu surrounded us in the CEO's house and rooms the
big press conference that we wanted to have for that deal,
I sat there and realized I had an excellent topic
to study when I went away to do my master's
in politics, and that was into equity in a large
scale of economic development, mainly the Lower Churchill. So I
say all this by way of background. I've worked on

(01:49:10):
it there. I worked on numerous iterations. I have been
a Minister of Energy when we were able to get
a rate mitigation deal, which was terribly important for our
leverage at the bargaining table. We did not want to
be in a weaker position because we didn't have the
funds to cover rape mitigation after the boomdoggle of muskrat falls.

(01:49:33):
So here we are now and we've got a very
good deal in front of us. And I am a
one in the hand over two of the bush kind
of guy. So I've heard a lot of people on
here talking about perfect perfect, and I could tell you,
particularly as a labor minister and as the guy who's
done deals, not things ever perfect, we've got to stop
measuring ourselves against perfect. But we do have to measure

(01:49:55):
ourselves about what is on the table, what we were
able to negotiate with Quebec, and where that places us
in a very uncertd future in this country and in
this world.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
Quick question on the Inunation now that you've brought it up,
and rate mitigation as well, so maybe you have a
status update for us, because we know that the Internation
settled out of court with Hydro Quebec about the Upper
Churchill for pretty low money as far as I could tell,
and they were Crystal Claire the last rate mitigation pot
of money at five point two billion dollars. The Internation
says that jeopardizes their revenue into the future by a billion.

(01:50:29):
Unless they're made hold, there will be no goal. I
haven't heard one update. I know the Grand Chief was
at the announcement, but I haven't heard a settlement here
regarding rape mitigation and the Indunation's revenue stream. Have you?

Speaker 16 (01:50:40):
Well, though I'm not Minister of Energy anymore, what I
do know. I didn't mean that to sound as saucy
as it may have sounded. But what I do know
is they are partners in this deal.

Speaker 13 (01:50:52):
They are at the table, and I can't tell you
how important that is. The INNU has stayed away from
any negotiating table for decades and preferred to protest ours
because they weren't fully included at the outset, which they
should have been, to be honest with you, but this
was the nineteen nineties and it was a different time.
But they are and I got to tell you, like
you know, it was an incredibly proud moment of me

(01:51:14):
for me to see the incoming as full participants at
that announcement. That was terribly, terribly important.

Speaker 2 (01:51:21):
Optically speaking, absolutely, I agree. But there is going to
be this snarl of a billion dollars that someone's going
to have to deal with because they've been crystal clear
on that no goal until they're made hale. So that's
kind of been missing from the conversation. We know, we
talked about hydrogebet calls, all the cards and the liability
and the risk A call, but that's all just notional

(01:51:41):
until there's some sort of resolution with the internation. As
far as I can tell, because they their statements have
been pretty straightforward on that front. In addition to that,
as a foreign Minister of the Crown, and we've got
the Major Project Office and all that in nation building
and shovel ready stuff. You know, don't take it from me,
you take it from the Hyperconcertives and the Trudeau Liberals.
They've called muskrat nation building, which is why there was

(01:52:04):
federal loan guarantees applied. I wonder should the federal government
have included this type of work in the major projects,
because they've already declared that it is nation building projects,
But yet it not included in this most recent round,
nor does it look like it's going to be in
the way of the next five major project should it be?

Speaker 13 (01:52:20):
Well, I can tell you something that this deal is
so far ahead of anything else that is on the
Canadian government's list right now that it doesn't even warrant
being anywhere near that list.

Speaker 3 (01:52:31):
It is beyond.

Speaker 13 (01:52:32):
This is the most major of all major projects. You know,
this is something that we're talking ten thousand jobs. And
I have to disagree with Tom Davis, who I know
as a friend, Why the heck wouldn't see EO of
the utility be talking about the number of people she
has to hire.

Speaker 16 (01:52:48):
I mean, we're getting a bit foolish.

Speaker 13 (01:52:49):
Because we're saying, well, this makes the deal sound too good,
so she shouldn't be saying it. Well, you know what,
it's a good deal. She negotiated a good deal, a
very good deal with Dennis Mahoney and the Girlsmith. You know,
these are smart, smart people. And any inference that I
have heard from others, like the Group of None, any
inference that we are not capable of doing a good deal,

(01:53:09):
I can tell you right now. We have many mistakes
in the past, but we have learned from those mistakes.
What we cannot be is paralyzed by those mistakes because
we don't.

Speaker 3 (01:53:18):
Have the time.

Speaker 13 (01:53:19):
We need money, construction and wealth in this province. We
also need control and the things that I look for
and what I was, you know, the things I look for,
like an escalator clause and getting market value. We've got
if it's there in schedule left. The fact that we
will not take on costs.

Speaker 16 (01:53:35):
To construction overruns, which we learn from us.

Speaker 13 (01:53:38):
We are not. That we will have majority ownership. We
will that you know, as a Labrador and as somebody
who grew up a goosebait that we will have power
and jobs for Labrador.

Speaker 16 (01:53:49):
And then the other one that I didn't see common
that I guess was on my list just.

Speaker 13 (01:53:52):
Seventeen years early.

Speaker 16 (01:53:54):
And seventeen billion dollars in cash.

Speaker 3 (01:53:56):
We need that.

Speaker 10 (01:53:57):
Now.

Speaker 13 (01:53:57):
That doesn't necessarily mean we settle for any deal. I
in no way meant to infer that. But the fact
of the matter is I read that recent CBCU report
by Rob Addel and the promise is it does have
a debt and depicit issue that we know.

Speaker 17 (01:54:12):
So seventeen billion dollars is a lot of money on
top of what is the biggest capital works project in
North America. This blows anything else that Mark Kearney and
the federal government may have out of the water.

Speaker 13 (01:54:26):
There's nothing that comes close, if anything.

Speaker 5 (01:54:29):
And I was in.

Speaker 13 (01:54:29):
Ottawa earlier this week, and I'm in Toronto now and
I'm telling executives and power players and people in the
Prime Minister's office and the Prime Minister, you want to
be attached to our project that's going ahead, because I
could tell you there is no greater nation building project
in this country than this project. And you think about

(01:54:49):
the psychological hurdles that these two provinces had to come
to this deal. It is herculean. To be honest with you,
I'm amazed, but we did a good deal. Eight kick
us off every box that I can put.

Speaker 3 (01:55:02):
In front of it.

Speaker 2 (01:55:03):
Well, the deal was done based on need, not of
altruism and power for Labrador is over the course of
thirty five years.

Speaker 16 (01:55:09):
Both sides are both sides, Both sides need this deal.

Speaker 2 (01:55:11):
You're absolutely great, right, just not to quibble, but with
nation building projects and supporter of the federal government, I mean,
you say that this project is so much further along
than the first five Well that's not necessarily true. We'll
talk about the Phase two of LG Canada and kid
them at. I mean that's been approved for a long time,
so that's well down the road.

Speaker 3 (01:55:30):
No, no, no, I'm not saying that.

Speaker 13 (01:55:31):
No, no, no, no, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that, Look,
they are further down the road. I understand that. But
at this scale, there's nothing at this scale, there's nothing
at this size or scale that's on that list and
still has the environmental assessment done and still has.

Speaker 16 (01:55:44):
The deal done with the Labrador I knew nothing else
has that.

Speaker 2 (01:55:48):
No, And I suppose if we I don't. You know,
we talked about price and cost and value, and then
you also mentioned the generation of wealth. There'll be a
lot of wealth generated primarily for the utilities. You know.
It remains me seeing how seventeen billion dollars on average
a billion dollars a year for seventeen years, how that
actually gets applied to the provincial government callfers, and how

(01:56:08):
it gets spent versus how it gets potentially squandered.

Speaker 13 (01:56:12):
And I'll tell you because I'm a private citizen, so
I can do this now. I mean, here are my
thoughts on the matter, and I've expressed these very publicly.
What worked very well when the Liberals had a surplus,
you know, in the late nineteen nineties, and after all
all the cost cutting that occurred back then, when they
got into a surplus, they said fifty percent we'll go
to continuing to pay down the debt, twenty five percent

(01:56:34):
we'll go to lower taxes, and twenty five percent will
go to new spending. I have made the argument that
we should first of all, with any surplus we would receive,
and we would quickly start getting getting surpluses with this
sort of cash coming in retroactive to the signing of
the deal, we could start spending, and I would say
fifty percent, because we got some catching up to do
in this country. Fifty percent of that surplus should go

(01:56:54):
to new hospitals, new roads, new schools, twenty five percent
to the lower your taxes affordability, and twenty five percent
to the future to paying off or debt and not getting.

Speaker 3 (01:57:06):
Rid of the future fund.

Speaker 13 (01:57:07):
Like I heard last night, the debate with money. I
don't know where they're getting it from anyway, but at
least I know with John Hogan.

Speaker 16 (01:57:12):
Where he'll be getting the money. I have no idea
where the other crowd to get the money.

Speaker 13 (01:57:15):
And it irritates me to no ends that we see
people out there who either couldn't get a deal for
us or got a really bad deals for us, criticizing
this deal for even trying.

Speaker 2 (01:57:25):
The last two surpluses in this province were spent on
additional spending. That's it. That's the only place that that
money went. And for my money, you look, if I
had my drothers as a private citizen, fifty percent of
the new moneys, if and when this all happens, fifty
percent of that money goes to the debt, fifty percent
of it goes to controlling my rates. That's what I
would suggest, not healthcare, not roads, not anything, because we

(01:57:45):
already spend like that, and you talk about the path
to surplus. I'd like to know more about that thought.
Because this year the deficit of six hundred and twenty
six million dollars, which includes the hundred percent of the
big tobacco settlement, plus we're boring four point one billion
dollars this year, So the path two surplus at an
annual average of a billion dollars a year, we're not
even close.

Speaker 13 (01:58:05):
And this is where I think we should be having
the debate. This is where this is what I want
to start talking about. What will we do with this money?
And that should be what you know we should be
talking about. And I think we should have a very healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:58:16):
Conversation about how much tech relief goes.

Speaker 13 (01:58:18):
Into place, how much we lower taxes, what we need
to do to spend new money. At least we can
start dreaming about again about these things, because we will
not be able to without this deal, because there is
no other deal other than this deal that could backside
with us. That the innu signed with us nothing else.
You know, we can talk about concepts, we can talk

(01:58:39):
about perfection, but this is what's at the table.

Speaker 17 (01:58:43):
This is what our team negotiated and said, Yes, we
think we're heading in the right direction. All the tea's
and eyes will be crossed and dotted, and all of
that will happen as we come closer to signing a
final agreement and these debates will continue.

Speaker 13 (01:58:57):
So really this election is about is this government headed
in the right general direction? And do we think that
John Hogan, who sat there during the muskrat Fallows inquiry
and who has led this province, I think so able
through the past few months. Is he the guy who
wants or is it the other crowd?

Speaker 16 (01:59:11):
And that's basically it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:13):
Yeah, I suppose that's right. But it's also that natural
political churn that this province is famous for. You're in
for two or three terms, and then you're out for
two or three terms, and then you're in for or
three terms. That seems to be how the history is.
I displayed anyway, shame of somebody for the break, But
I appreciate your time. Hope you're doing well.

Speaker 16 (01:59:31):
Thank you, Patty, appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
Take care bye bye, I just take our phone break,
don't away. Welcome back. Let's go to line number three.
Morning John, you're on the air.

Speaker 8 (01:59:40):
Good morning, Patty, welcome. I had a thank you. I
do enjoy your show. I don't. I had a number
of ideas and I was going to focus on one
and have a quick chat with you, but your last
caller has effected my blood pressure, so and I don't

(02:00:00):
know where I'm going anyway. The debate last night, I
was not as impressed as mister o'reagan with mister Hogan
or anyone else. The only thing that I got answered,
and it was stressed confirmed there by mister o'reagan. I
guess is that the reason for the rush, which is

(02:00:23):
a question us commoners have been asking on a daily
basis when we're meeting up in chatting, is that this
is the only deal, so sign it for God's sake.
That doesn't seem like a very strong bargaining point if
that's the way the negotiations were looked at. And I,

(02:00:46):
like many more that I talked to, do have concerns.
And it's not because there the other crowd is, mister
o'reagan said, Because I'm certainly not near our number of
my friends, but we do have real concerns about the
way this has been rushed. True, the last time I
heard mister O'Regan as excited about Indy was regarding the

(02:01:11):
wind energy project out here on the West coast when
he gave we gave, he gave our money to mister
Risley one hundred and twenty million bucks because you know,
they were in a rush they had to get at this,
and that was the exact words he used. Are pretty near. Yeah,

(02:01:33):
And of course nothing has happened with that sense, and
I be surprised if we got our one hundred and
twenty million back.

Speaker 2 (02:01:40):
Well, that's a lot of credit, and that is there's
no there's no opportunity for them to walk away from
repayment as far as I understand. That's how it was
drawn up anyway, in so far as rush goes. So,
I mean, I don't know what the timeline should be,
but I do know that the next April so called deadline,
which the premium said we might blow through if required,
and I'll believe that when I see it. But that

(02:02:02):
is really a date foot forward by Quebec. And that's
all about the politics in Quebec. Lego and his coalition
to Avanair areppalling terribly, Like if they had to go
to the Poulse today, they might not win a single seat.
So that's why I think that's why it's moving so quickly,
in so far as that April deadline quote unquote deadline.

Speaker 8 (02:02:20):
Yeah, without without a doubt, that's true. But does that
make for good rational discussions and all the rest of it.
And that's like talking about a referendum, Well, I really
uh to vote on a referendum. I think we all
have to have us commoners now a clear understanding of

(02:02:41):
what we'd be voting on. And if mister Wakem or
mister Hogan or anyone else can give us that we
don't need a referendum, that's it's plain to everybody, then
otherwise we're going to end up voting on as shape
Mistress said to, you know, decide against that SIDEPC against

(02:03:06):
Liberal and all this kind of crap instead of common
sense and actually knowing what exactly we're doing. I don't
for a minute pretend to have the ability to understand
the MoU. I've read it a few times, but I
dressed for my own very simplistic and probably meaningless process

(02:03:30):
I went through. I took a number of articles, vehicle, boat,
a few things like that that I bought in nineteen seventy,
and I priced them today, and using the same formula,
I projected out what I would pay for them fifty

(02:03:52):
years from now, and according to that we would be
maybe slightly better off than the original deal, and depending
on how thing school, maybe a little worse.

Speaker 13 (02:04:06):
Now.

Speaker 8 (02:04:06):
I know that that's meaningless to anyone but me, but
it really gives me concerns about what we're doing. The
seventeen billion. Is it not the fact Patty, you know
better than me. Isn't that recouped by Quebec down the
road from future revenues.

Speaker 2 (02:04:23):
No, that's an argment that I've seen, but I've never
seen anyone who actually factually backed that up. I mean,
I guess we can notionally say that some of the
revenue stream for hydro Quebec is part of seventeen billion,
but there's no form a loan and repayment schedule associated
with that money.

Speaker 8 (02:04:40):
So no, no, I know. Yeah, but I think it
may be something like the way the aisle companies work
in their royalties. Yes, they pay royalties, but it's negotiated
into what we get back down the road.

Speaker 3 (02:04:54):
Well, that's like everything we get used to anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:04:56):
Yeah, I mean you can put an accounting label on
every facet of every negotiated contract. Ever, so some things
get hidden or just refunneled or focus, which makes it
look better or worse, depending on what side of the
argument around. I suppose before we run out of time,
John go Ahead gives your last couple of thoughts.

Speaker 8 (02:05:13):
Well, what I had hoped to see for some time,
years actually, but in particular I've been waiting and waiting
and waiting for some one of the leaders at least
to come out and tell us how we were going
to stop kicking the can down the road when it
comes to our finances, because but no, the same old

(02:05:38):
or spend spend, spend, with no indication of where that
money might come from. The last time we were told
to sail and on an upright ship was back with
Tride Wells, and I would put pint out to Shamus
not don't take too much pride and being involved with
Toben Winn. He came because in no time flat he

(02:06:01):
flushed all the good work that Wells had done and
put us on the road we've been on ever since,
which is big borrow and steel, and we're messing with
the futures of our children and grandchildren, and it's really
really concerning. I was hoping to see a few things

(02:06:23):
like maybe instead of four hundred dollars going to seven
hundred dollars to give a few people and stuff like this,
go to the guaranteed minimum wage, which has proven the.

Speaker 3 (02:06:35):
Work it can, it means the work.

Speaker 2 (02:06:37):
It needs a lot of supports on the fringes of
But you're right, we just hit twelve o'clock on the dot.
You've had the last words of John. But you're always welcome.

Speaker 8 (02:06:45):
Thank you, You're welcome.

Speaker 2 (02:06:46):
Bye bye. Her a good show today. We will indeed
to pick up this conversation again tomorrow morning right here
on VOCM and b lenfm's open Line. Behalf the producer
David Williams. I'm your houset Patty Daily. Have yourself, say fun,
happy day. We'll talk morning. Bye bye

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