Thursday Sept 4th

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is VOCM Open Line calls seven oh nine two
seven three fifty two eleven or one triple eight five
ninety eight six two six abusing opinions of this programmer,
not necessarily those of this station. The biggest conversation in
Newfoundland and Labrador starts now Here's VOCM Open Line host

(00:22):
Paddy Daily.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well, all right and good morning to you. Thank you
very much for tuning into the program. It's Thursday, September
the fourth. This is open Line. I'm your host Patty Daily,
David Williams, He's produced the program. Let's get it going.
If you're in the same town's metro region, the number
to dollar get indo q and on the air is
seven zero nine two seven three five two one one
else for a toll free long distance one eight eight

(00:44):
eight five ninety VOCM, which is eighty six twenty six.
So let's check in at the final Grand Slam Tennis
ternament to the air, of course, the US Open and
the Canadians. So yesterday hotly anticipated quarter final Felix oj
Ealiasm from Canada taking on Ozzy Alex demonor who's the
eighth seed? Felix coming in as the twenty fifth seed,

(01:05):
Demanoor has never been to a semi at a Grand Slam.
Felix has. He's been to the Grand Slam semis At
the US Open back in twenty twenty one, I sat
down to watch the matches best I could. It was
a particularly sloppy affair. Both guys obviously extremely nervous and
Ojell he see him gets through, so he wins in
four sets. He goes on to play the world number
one Yannick Center tomorrow. If he plays like that, it

(01:27):
will be six love six love six love, no doubt
about it. So he's got a up his game. And
on the double side, Gabby Debrowski from Ontario to the
Tomatawa herner double partner the Kiwi Aaron Routlift. They're often
finals at the US Opening, the doubles also on Friday. Okay,
there you go, all right, what's this? So this is
just a story about fair warning for the parents of
teenagers who operate off road vehicles. We all know the rules.

(01:50):
We all should know the rules regarding wearing a helmet
in the age with which you need adult supervision. What
have you?

Speaker 3 (01:56):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Apparently fifteen year old at the Iron C Traffic Services,
a couple of dirt bikes on came Mount Road. When
the bike saw the cops that they of course fled.
One of the bikes stalled, and the fifteen year old
was ticketed for using an off road vehicle on the
highway without a driver's license, no license plate and no
one short. So also the boy's mother got a ticket
for allowing the unsupervised use of that particular machine. So

(02:18):
we all know the rules. You don't want to catch
yourself in that predicament. Okay, there we go. It'd be
nice to know exactly what happened to those who were
caught breaching the province's fireban, which is up for a
review on the seventh of this month. So whether or
not you think it's heavy handred or whatever the case,
we'd be the rules were replaced, people knew it and
wilfully knowingly broke the restriction, So it'd be nice to

(02:41):
know what's going on there, because remember the finds at
one point were seventy five bucks and then they were
jacked up to fifty thousand dollars. Highly unlikely that people
caught have the fifty thousand dollars, so the threat then
was to go to jail. So what actually happened with
anybody caught on that front. And then it's the person
caught lighting fires in the downtown of Saint John's wasn't
necessarily just breaking the fireban. That was arson, It was

(03:03):
lighting place on fire. So it'd be nice to get
an update as to exactly what's going on there. In addition,
yet to another story, you had a headline someone pulled
over with seventeen thousand dollars in outstanding finds a breach
of a corridorder, breach of probation and data da da da.
So the vehicle and pounded and body brought down to
the clink. So the concept there, and we'll keep bringing

(03:24):
it up because the current government has brought it up.
It's some sort of mechanism to recoup all these outstanding fines.
There's millions and millions of dollars on paid fines out there.
So at one point they were talking about at the
government level putting people in jail, which doesn't make a
whole whole lot of sense given the fact there's nowhere
to put them. Secondly, is the thought of community service,
Like I just think that's such a great idea, I

(03:46):
really do. They kept talking about it and talking about it,
but haven't acted on it. It'd be nice to know
if that's actually going to be a thing at some
point into the future. What do you think? All right,
back to school yesterday for the Province's cad to twelve
students for the most part. Of course, schools closed the
CBS because of the water is shoe. Oh yeah, the
state of emergency has been lifted in conception based out
so anything on the education front, let's talk about it.

(04:08):
So whether it be the Education Accord and there are
four pillars. I don't know how many parents of school
aged children have read it, but it's an interesting read.
It's a huge book of some four hundred pages. But predictably,
come into work this morning, open up my email to
get email from several families saying that that their son
or daughter and I'm not going to mention the schools.
They didn't want me to. Their son or daughter went

(04:30):
to school yesterday requiring certain additional supports and again this
year not in place on the first day of school,
so we know. The province talked about twenty million dollars
to hire some four hundred different people to work in
the Province's CADA twelve system, But was your son or
daughter accommodated with the need that the school understands And
it's not necessarily the school's fault that someone hasn't been

(04:50):
hired and put in place on time. But it's happening
again this year, so let's talk about that. Secondly, this
is an issue regarding scheduling, and this is more than
one school too. Parents going to drop off their kids,
and I'll just use one particular example, beachik Cove Elementary.
So my massive amount of roadwork going on, and some

(05:10):
of it just started before the school year started. You know,
don't we have a little better idea of scheduling If
roadwork needs to be done around the school, is not
a better opportunity to do during the summer when the
school is not open, as opposed to in the fall
when the school reopens. Same thing around where I live
Inness Avenue, fair bit of roadwork going on there. They
just put a sidewalk in and that's a good thing
and needed to be replaced. But reports from several different

(05:34):
schools that roadwork going on, and so what would be
a five or ten minute drop off affair for your
son or daughter. They're reporting that it was thirty thirty
five forty minutes worth of drop offs, traffic being redirected
down the wrong way in one way lane inside these
school parking lot of what have you. So can we
not figure out how to do the roadwork around schools
when school is not open? I don't know what do

(05:54):
you think sticking with this? And this is early childhood education,
So we've heard my these stories about the deafening silence
were regulated childcare operators proposing for expansion or to open
up a new facility and having a hard time getting
it done. Eventually, the two most notable cases they were
attended to. But this is about those regulated childcare spaces.

(06:17):
Then they require the operating grant from the government. But
here's the problem, and I'll just read this is directly
from an anonymous operator. I know who it is. What
will leave the person's name out of it for fear
of repercussion. As they say, the agreement that they signed
with the province effectively silence is the operators. So it
states that any communication about the grant, whether through media,

(06:37):
public reports, or even conversations with outside priorities, must be
approved by the government. The centers cannot release any information
in issue reports or make any statements without departmental oversight,
and when that communication is approved, the operators have to
go on and give credits due to the department. So
we need these operators. Of course it's a regulated space,

(06:57):
but they need some semblance of independence and they should
be able to offer transparent accounts of exactly how the
funding is working or not working, to the families of
the children that are in the facility and to their
staff or otherwise. So if the department is confident in
its policy, it's programs procedures, then if that's the case,
then why can't we allow operators just to voice their

(07:19):
genuine concerns. I mean, we need them to open up
their facilities, we need them to be properly staffed and
are properly paid. But if when there's gaps, then they
should be able to say it, shouldn't they. So it's
being considered as some sort of muzzle. And what are
the comments in one of the sentences is childcare operators
should not have to choose between funding, stability and freedom

(07:40):
of speech. But of course in this country freedom of
expression so not ideal to say the least. What do
you think let's talk about it, Oh, and I'll bring
this up one more time, is wouldn't it be nice
for the leveling of the playing field and some control
for the parents or caregivers pocketbooks if you didn't have
to keep up with the Jonalses and by the latest
and greatest sneakers, hoodies and jeans or whatever, and we

(08:02):
all went to school in a uniform. I don't know,
I get in troubled for saying it, but I enjoyed.
All Right, what's this I stick. Let's go back to
the trades. So yesterday we mentioned that Equanor has settled
on a company as they prefer bidder an agreement to
principle to build the Fpso, of course the floating Production,
storage and Offloading Unit BW Offshore is the company. So

(08:23):
we'll see if it ever does indeed get sanctioned. But
on that front, Trades and L has made a pretty
significant release yesterday regarding benefits agreements. They're looking back over
the course of it in the past thirty five years.
They say in that timeframe, two hundred and twenty five
thousand jobs equating to over sixteen billion dollars a labor
income happened within the province. This, of course important stuff.

(08:45):
So they say we have developed a world class workforce
by constructing, fabricating and maintaining industrial projects. They look at
things a white west rose concrete, gravity structure of voices, bay,
underground operations or expansion. Then they talk about all of
the major projects could be in the office in the
oil industry, and we know that there's plenty of inklings
that the bunk of the oil part of me. The

(09:06):
bunk of the work that might happen if bet in
organ sanction would be some subsea work. Then they talk
about gas. The province has for at least some numbers
regarding the natural gas off our shores trillions of cubic feet.
Yet to be a royalty regime established. Of course, it
won't be in the actional Lesson's royalty regime. So they
talk about that. Then they talk about hydro and we'll
get into hydrone a second. Okay, So they make a

(09:29):
point of the Elastical Court the province must be the
principal beneficiary of offshore developments. They're talking about minimum amounts
of construction in the province. They want it to be
sixty eight percent on all oil and gas projects and
eighty six percent on any hydro development. I believe Bob
Fiander from Trades and now might be joining us. I
will steal all his thunder here this morning. Be like

(09:51):
getting too deep into it. But they're not wrong. I mean,
it's one thing when the province negotiates benefits agreements and
talks about royalties. We might be barking up the wrong
tree when we talk about equity steak off shore, but
that's another conversation. So the royalties good thing. Expanded tackspace
good thing, But there's nothing quite like for the individual
to get a job. Money flow into the province is okay,

(10:13):
but money flow into your pocketbook is better. So they
talk about minimum thresholds to be satisfied on any potential
megaprojects into the future. So maybe Bob, if you have
a chance, please join us on the show and we
can dig a little deeper into those. I think that's
pretty important conversation, no doubt about it. All Right, Upper
churchill MoU So that's one reference to hydro and I

(10:34):
guess that means, you know, the expansion of the Upper
Church and the potential for gall Island, the transmission lines
and the like. We know that there's now been a
big political snag thrown into the MoU negotiations when Michael Wilson,
one of the members of the three person oversight panel,
has resigned, and we can get into some of the
things that mister Wilson pointed to. You know, basically it's

(10:55):
about price into the future. So as statement came out
our media release from the independent Churchill River Negotiation Oversight Panel. Okay,
we know it was established at the beginning of this
particular calendar year, and they've made a couple of indications
about their role. The panel clarifies that it is an
independent party that overseas and evaluates the process of negotiations

(11:16):
following the MoU towards definitive agreements. It regularly reports its
findings and advice the Cabinet. The panel itself does not
participate in negotiations. Okay, they all sign confidentiality agreement. Then
they go on and say due to commercial confidentiality of
ongoing negotiations, the public report does not disclose detail of
the panel's findings and recommendations. The panels reports have to

(11:36):
be informed by review and analysis of hundreds of pages
of internal documents and by interviews with hydro Hydro executives, financial, legal, technical,
power market advisors that they do with minor exceptions. The
MoU is not a legally buying document. We know. The
MoU is a mechanism that commits the parties to further negotiations.
What's not included in this particular media release, and Dennis

(11:57):
Brown is more than welcome to call the show, is
any comment or reflection on Michael Wilson's resignation, which I
don't know what kind of weight you're giving it, but
it's not insignificant, and the comments that he has made
are not insignificant. So a couple of questions, what does
the panel think of that particular decision by mister Wilson.
Has mister Wilson been replaced and if so, by whom

(12:19):
and who's that person? What is their professional background? So
one of the hamstrings for the panel, the oversight panel
is there simply only able to adjudicate and evaluate the
contents of the MoU as opposed to things that might
change considerations into the future. Now they might be part
of the formal negotiations, but that's not a whole lot

(12:41):
to understand, because shouldn't there be some sort of comment
coming from now the Premier continues to defend the MoU
and talks about things like schedule left and the floating
target of value if the pricing for electricity changes in
the future, those types of things. But I don't think
that conversation is anywhere close to gone. And if you
want to pick it up where I'd left off or

(13:02):
at your comments to it, let's do exactly that here
in this morning. Have we doing on the phone, Dave,
Let's get it go, all right? So this weekend coming
is the first of two additional weekends granted to the
people of the province by the Federal Department of Fisheries
and Oceans for a couple more weekends of the recreational
food fishery. Thank you so much. Sticking with water and fish.

(13:25):
Aquaculture has been the savior of some small communities in
the province, and the economic bood is real, so are
the environmental concerns. So for the second time this summer,
Malby Canada East It reported a huge mass die off.
Now haven't given us specific numbers, but there is a
portfile by the company dated the thirty first of August.

(13:47):
Approximately one point seven million farm salmon are affected by
what they're calling an abnormal mortality event exceeding ten percent
of the site population. That's at Harvey Hill East, Harvey
Hills South and Broad Cove Marine sites, Harbor Breton. They
won't say exactly how many fish died or how many
have survived, so they do talk about some of the
remaining population being harvested. They're investigating. But here we go.

(14:11):
It not only comes with economic loss to the company, obviously,
but some of the things that we have pointed to
Since twenty nineteen, Maui itself some two point six million
dead fish had to be removed at that point, remember
the kerfuffle, the province yanked their license. Maui apologize to
the province and they get back a business. They point
to the cause of these die offs to be warmer

(14:32):
water temperatures, and that's an association with decreased oxygen levels,
which begs a pretty big question. There's no reason to
think that warming water trends won't continue in the warming direction.
So if that's the cause, and with the warming water
decrease oxygen levels, then what's the future of open pen
fin fish farming in this province and many other parts

(14:55):
of the country or the world. They've stopped doing it
and they've moved the projects onshore. Wow, more expensive obviously,
But if that is the cause, why does anybody in
the aquaculture industry think that that's not going to remain
the cause for summers yet to come. So the die
off numbers are real, And of course agriculture has a
lot of questions and concerns associated with it, and not

(15:18):
all bad. As part of the food chain. Some people
appreciate the farm sam and some of course wouldn't touch it.
But your thoughts on those stories, Let's do it already.
People keep asking me when the provincial election is going
to be. I don't know. So by the latest date
available is September sixteenth, to allow for the shortest campaign available,
which is twenty eight days. That would see us go

(15:38):
to the polls on October fourteenth, So you gotta believe
it soon. Lots of announcements coming from the provincial Liberals,
lots of announcements coming from the NDP and go down
there for their cost of the platform. We can dig
into that a little further. And you know, Tori's being
asked about things like a bus whatever. Anyway you want
to talk about that, Let's go all right, So apparently
they're the Prime Minister and Cabinet are meeting, and I

(16:00):
believe today is day two and a lot on the agoing.
So for starters, they've invited one of the architects of
what they call Project twenty twenty five, which of course
we're told the current administration didn't know anything about it,
but of course he using it as a very distinct roadmap.
The architect is a fellow named Kevin Roberts. He's president
of the Heritage Foundation. He's being consulted by Mark Kearney

(16:23):
today about I guess the President's playbook or something. Seems
like a pretty strange relationship to talk about things as
important as international trade or trade with the Americans. But
anyway that's happening, then they've got to get back to
the kitchen table issues, right, which I think are pretty
important to those listening. We know there's a budget coming
and okay, then we know that there's been demands made

(16:45):
by the Prime Minister across all of the departments about
finding savings, floating targets from seven to fifteen percent. One
story that gets plenty of traction is cra Service Canada.
So apparently the Prime Minister has sent SIIRA back to
the dry board to devise what they call a one
hundred day plan to improve the service at the call centers.

(17:06):
It's been very, very difficult. There's different numbers coming from
the union that represents the employees, that's called the Union
of Taxation Employees. They say thirty three hundred call center
employees lost their jobs since May twenty twenty four as
a result of fewer than five percent of callers on
average reach an agent. Now CIRA uses different numbers. They
say from January through July, CIRA received about twenty one

(17:27):
point five million calls and roughly fourteen percent were handled
by agents. Okay, so are their job cuts coming or not?
And you know, people can't have it both ways, even
though anny people would like to have it both ways.
Is if you want public sector jobs to go by
the wayside through attrition or otherwise, then that's going to
compromise some so called counter service. It's frustrating to begin

(17:50):
with what we deal with CIRA. The tax code itself
is unnecessarily complicated. People are waiting weeks and months to
have their issues reconciled. But what's the solution here? You know,
for many areas of life. Artificial intelligence is going to
be a problem, but for others, like use of a
chatbot so that you can actually get your issues dealt

(18:11):
with because the algorithm can program all the information required
for something like artificial intelligence to provide swift answers to
concerned twenty one point five million worth of calls. So
we'll see what results in this so called one hundred
day plan. But that's that's pretty interesting stuff, Okay. The
Conservative Party of Canada in a release yesterday, are talking

(18:33):
about the temporary foreign worker program. They quote numbers as
to how many of these foreign worker permits have been
granted in the first six months of twenty twenty five.
They're using one hundred and five thousand. The promised cap
was eighty two thousand, so blown right past that. What
they're calling for is not a hard cap on the
temporary foreign worker program. They're talking about its complete and
full elimination no temporary foreign workers. They refer to things

(18:57):
like wage suppression and what have you. Just a reminder
there is no federal wage sub subsidy for a temporary
foreign worker. They make very specific mention in places like
Tim Hortons, So Tim Hortons have hired this thirty one
percent more than Tim Hortons over the four years alone.
At Tim Hortons over four years. All right, So for

(19:19):
some industries, temporary foreign workers not being the thing of
the future is going to be a problem. I imagine we'll
hear from the Canadian Federation Independent Business. Yes, we all
remember being teens and youth employment is at a staggering,
terrible spot. It's the worst more than the quarter century
when you back out the pandemic. So everyone knows that
to be true. When I speak to people who are

(19:40):
positions of authority and or owner operators of places like
entry level jobs, fast food and otherwise, they say it's
not about not wanting to hire a Canadian. They're talking
about hiring people that want a permanent, full time job
as opposed to a summer job for instance. Now you
can say that's good or bad, or right or wrong,
but the way the PROGRES has been abused has led

(20:01):
us down this path. For companies that were abusing the
system by using bogus labor American impact assessments, that has
caused a problem. There is no monetary upside to hire
a temporary foreign worker other than if you back out
things like training and retraining and the turnover that they
see in some of these entry level jobs. But is
it even wise to eliminate the program in full? I mean,

(20:25):
even in this province there are some fish plans, for instance,
that they had to rely on temporary form workers to
get the job done. So the cap needs to be
abided by. If the KAPA set or promised that eighty
two thousand and already this year one hundred and five
thousand permits have been issued, that's a problem I completely understand.
But a full on elimination does that make sense in

(20:46):
the big scheme of things. I'll live it up to you.
All right. We mentioned yesterday that we're dealing with shortage
across the gamut in healthcare that includes paramedics. Jerial is
the president of APE. They represent the provinces of paramedics
that work in the public sector. He joins us right
after this, and then we're speaking with you. Don't go away, Well,
welcome back to the show. Let's go to line number one.
Say good one to the president. That Nate. That's Jerry Earl.
Jerry around the air.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
Good morning, Patty, and trust you're doing well.

Speaker 2 (21:08):
Trust I'm doing fine. Thanks. How about you doing great?
All right, let's dig into the paramedics issue. You know,
we talk about shortages and variety of disciplines in the
healthcare system and that includes paramedics.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
What do we know, petty, and I'm sure you and
we have certain conversations in ZOCM and other immediate let's
report over the years what Nate has been saying about
a short each of emails personnel like right across New
from Land Labrador and then just part of about eighteen
months ago, now we know became one potential system. We

(21:40):
have always beencerned, even back before we represent the entirety
of the system. The shortages and stories are broken. We've
had conversations around a term that many don't like us
and I'll still use it because it's used in other
jurisdictions the country around red alerts, and that comes down
to insufficient human resources and then the physical units to

(22:01):
respond and shortages of staff as one piece set. But
then obviously there's other factors that's been talked about it well,
like offload delays at hostible. So we know, and it's
good to air. Doctor Paraphrey, the now CEO of the
new New Flent Level or Ealth Corporation recognizing and given
credits like we've had to. I said on the else

(22:23):
accord with doctor Paraphrey, for example, and that was a
large group, uh, and with conversations down there on the
EMS system. And I please to air in now as
the CEO of Newflent Level or Earth Services outright saying
that he acknowledges as a shortage. It's that's the first
thing I've always said, you got acknowledged is a shortage
and and give credit to doctor Paraphe is out right saying.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
That, Yeah, it's one thing to acknowledge it, you know.
But we were told that the amalgamation or the mergining
of all these sixty separate private sector contracts would not
be the panacea, but a good step forward because we
had concerns with the disparity in the way to pay
and responsibilities and on call paying, all those types of things.
But it doesn't seem to have made a big, big
difference in so far as recruiting the most importantly retaining paramedics.

(23:08):
So are you hearing specific reasons because offload time at
the hospital and a number of red alerts isn't really
an on the job issue paramedics have much control over.
So why are they.

Speaker 4 (23:18):
Saying what are the big piece in this? And there
has been a significant piece and I know what negotiations
are like. There was a significant negotiation that's been taking
place and they named the entity that would be running
and that's where we had we had differences, but we
need to move forward on this. The entity that was
going to be managing the system. They have been an
extensive negotiations that was being hoped to be concluded this

(23:41):
past winter. What I understand now they are pretty well
near conclusion or about to conclude those negotiations where the
entity will come in there and manage the system. So
it's almost like there was a void for a year
where things stayed stagnant. That was most unfortunately a long
period of time. But the sea come out of that
now is that somebody will now really turn their attention

(24:04):
to identifying do we have sufficient ambulance and resources for
example in Arbora, Britain, or to engage or Saint Anthony
certainly don't have them here in the metro region. We're
seeing the problems over and over, so we're open at that.
Weegan set face to facials. It was almost like an
intram management team. I'm not sure they were given the
ability and fairness to them to be able to make

(24:26):
significant decisions. Known they were not going to be continuing.
They'll probably work in the system, but they will not
get the decision making. So now that this is about
to conclude or will conclude what I'm here and very
soon could be even this week, so we would want
to set the table then because that's where those discussions

(24:46):
took place. That Nie will come in now and say
do we do a staff review. I'm assuming for Metro
even recent days, we're having conversations in the Metro area
of converting because we always here about retention a number
of say temporary employees, they are now going in a
saying you're not temper any longer. We need you, We're

(25:07):
going to make you permanent. So those discussions has actually
been taking place in recent days. So I think that
lamp and across the province. One thing I've heard from
New Fland level Services. I'm assuming now this ab medity
we're talking about that would be operating the system. I'm
assuming Dale come in now and say, yep, we agree
with what New Fland Oil Service said there's a shortage. Ears,

(25:28):
how we go about filling those positions and do that
as expeditiously as possible, because it's not just AUSS recruiting
for these professionals that work in the system, whether it
be EMRs dispatchers, Advanced care paramedics or PCPs primary care paramedics.
So we needed to get get on the ground like
Nova Scotch for example, when as far as Australia rad

(25:49):
some people.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah, I saw that part of the story, you know,
just for context. So if we look at things like shortages,
say for what Red shirt nurses, we get numbers, well,
so you know there's X number of one hundred vacancies,
do we have an actual number of regarding paramedics, you know,
what would be a full compliment on how many were
short whether that be the required number of perambulance or
per airplane or whatever the case may be. Do we
actually have hard and fast numbers.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
And let's the enforcing petty Again, like we've there with
the legacy boards, there was not consistent data available. Again,
we established a working group which include ALCAN, the services
executive representatives in Flander Services and frontline paramedics, so that
data Unfortunately Eastern and Ils had great data on vacancies

(26:33):
and that, but if you went to another entity previously
they didn't, so it was inconsistent data. We couldn't even
find out like the actual staff he numbers, believe it
or not. But that should flow now from a single
entity in the province now manage with a dedicated management
system to EMS like Unfortunately some of the EMS petty

(26:54):
in the province. They use this term, but it was
pretty well operated off the corner of a manager's desk
as a secondary job. Like they may have been managing
the ICU and said, oh we got to manage the
ambulance system as well, and we always argued it could
never work like that. So one thing of this we
when to have a dedicated management system response for emergency services.

(27:16):
I'm open part of the process. Behind the scenes, they
have been working on what they believe the numbers are on. Open,
they'll share that with us and then we'll be able
to say, yeah, we think that's sufficient, because we listen
to the frontline numbers themselves. They say that's not enough,
then we would certainly pushing back and saying that is
not enough to service the calls volume because we know
what the call volumes are. Ye, So that's a piece

(27:39):
And that's the one thing I'm really open tommit this
consistent data that you can sit down and have a
discussion on because even that if you reached out now
VOCN or any on, I mean, you just can't get
that data. Like we used to try the way tip
it in the past. We had good data for one board,
but the other boards was we're basically told it didn't exist.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
It should exist somewhere, absolutely, Yeah, and we'll we'll keep
chasing this particular story obviously, and for people working in
as first responders dispactors in otherwise, it's completely silly and
counter productive to not be allowed to use the phrase
red alert without having that number. Then we can't can't
paint a clear picture of exactly what way times and

(28:20):
response times look like. When it's just ridiculous. We've got to.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Get it with Yeah. And that's like whatever the term is,
and it's one that's accepted in standards. Like I said,
on our national union board and we represent our nationally
represent paramedics matter provinces and they talk about red alerts.
I'm not sure what the fear is around that. Basically,
what it's saying is if we're in red alerts, there's
no ambulance available, and that's happening or as happened all

(28:46):
too frequent. I'm certainly open enough to distant future that
would become something that we rarely er ear off rather
than a regular occurrence, because it is a regular occurrence,
and we've heard many stories and actually most stories don't.
It's a public but again go back to a number
of issues that we have, Like we were fighting for
years to say why are paramedics news filand level or

(29:09):
EMSDMR is not even compensating on pier with Atlantic Canada.
That has been addressed and already addressed. Actually even just
something simple of whether you're in Metro Saint John's or
Arbora Britten Now or in Twining Gate, you wear the
same uniform, you have benefits. Now, we had EMS personnel.
We've talked about trying to retain and recruit people like

(29:32):
many in the private system before they didn't have a
pension plan, they didn't have a group in transplants. So
even that coming into the system we have now that
will help with the retainment and recruitment. And then we
introduced there in the province like our own ACP programs.
You said to leave the province to train, but right now,
so we graduating from CATA twelve system here in the

(29:52):
province could go into Saint John's or go into Stevensville,
actually train at home to serve in their own province.
So those things the VAMP and I see a lot
more that now that we can actually focus attention not
under burgaining. No, we weren't part of this under burgam
between government edity that if that is done, are close
to being done, that we can focus our attention on

(30:13):
providing a world class service here at Newfland leveled or
certainly equipment to any in the country.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Fair enough, this might not be necessarily impacting you and
your members, but it's been a tense couple of years
here with organized labor. In federally regulated industries, workers order
back to work at the rails the Ports Canada posts.
They are Canada Flight attendants, so it's becoming one of
those go toos.

Speaker 5 (30:35):
Now.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
I know these are federally regulated industries, but these things
have a funny way seeping into provincial orders as well.
So when you speak with other organized labor leaders around
the country, like I've received emails from any organizations. They
talk about things like general strike which was threatened in Ontario.
When we talked about the provinces though that provinces teacher.
So what's the organized labor temperature like? Because these stories

(30:58):
are becoming extremely common.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
It's quite elevated because and again sitting on our nationally
you know, which is NOUCCI. I get to sit out
a national board with Japoric, which is the president of
a union comparable to NAPE, certainly much bigger because of
the size of the province. And I know the frustration
are having not lost on NAPE. Some tend to have
a short memory, but I remember the days I was

(31:21):
around when we've had previous government. So I go back
to the years of Danny Williams when people don't realize
nothing to legislate NAPE back to work a legislated changes
to a collective agreement. So this is not new. It's
just starting to come about, I think because some of
the corporate entities and some of the political will NAPE

(31:42):
itself is starting a very long preparation now to get
ready for our contracts to expire next year. Our message
is clear, we are not prepared to as any government
or cooperation interfere with our constitutional rights to go to
a bargaining table and the right of a worker if
they can't, like there's an old process you go through

(32:04):
if they can't the right which order service us. So
there should be a fundamental right. But here we have
built at the federal government. Uh, like inre Canada, for example,
we're immediately interfering. The best deals are reached at barge
tables and if one side knows they have an advantage
to legislation, like your candidate issiness. Last thing with QUP,

(32:25):
they actually openly said that. The CEO openly said we
were relying on the peace legislation. That's totally unfeared at
the frontline workers.

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, it's been coming to go too like consecutive consecutive
orders back to work. Now they'll say, you know, trying
to prevent economic damage. And I understand that argument, but
boy oh boy, there have been instances where unions have
refused to abide by any black or order work orders
and even if they failed jail time or finds, what
have you. And that includes the representatives of the air

(32:55):
kind of flight attendants, and they were saying no, We're
just not going to do it. You can you know what,
It's not.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Like petty issue is repeating itself. And maybe many of
your listening audience, but maybe some do. Maybe you and
I remember, I remember as a young union activist. I
remember when the leader of my union at that time,
Phraser March for example, was jail for just what you said.
Basically said you couldn't have this legislation. We the workers
are going to step up and decide. And that time

(33:22):
Nate did, that day could come again. That day could
be next year for us, because again you can have
it where cooperations or governments at the upper end. We
talked about economic damage. Just imagine what these frontline workers like,
go back to your categy. I can't believe in twenty five,
twenty twenty five, or even have a discussion at a
Barney table about unpaid work. That should be a non

(33:45):
starter right after that, but I can't believe. And there's
all host of issues that we will be going on
the aff our members. Like we start a component what
we call our component conventions. Now this just in a
couple of weeks time. Actually first ones, we get our
frontline and go chang jings some place, and our miss
is clear. We're prepared to go to a Bardy table
and negotiate respectfully, recognizing because legislation covers us too, but

(34:08):
we're not prepared to have either a government or corporation
try to leverage a legislation against us on farely and
we will do what is necessary.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Appreciate the time, Jerry, thank you.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Thank you very much for Patty for that Offchendy, my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Bye bye, as Jerry or of course the president at NATE.
But let's take a break, don't go away, welcome back
to the show. Let's go line number one. Jeffrey, you're
on the air. Hey, Patty, how you doing doing okay? Thanks?
How about you good?

Speaker 6 (34:38):
I wanted to pick up from here a monologue about
Mike Wilson's resignation.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
And the MU. Sure, let me just add one point
of clarification here. You know, I asked questions purposefully to
provoke calls sometimes, right, It's kind of what I do, yes, Carse. So,
of course Michael Wilson has been replaced, and I know it,
but I was just, you know, wondering why there hasn't
been public announcements and statements from the panel about Michael
Wilson's resignation and the replacement, who was a gun named
Guy Holborn, a professor of business economics public Policy at

(35:04):
the Ivy School of Business at the University of Western
and a pretty extensive background. I just wanted to pop
that in there on a new Guard headstar.

Speaker 7 (35:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (35:11):
So I just think this needs to be the headline
issue from now until the until the deal is either
figured out or not figured out. I think it's the
biggest decision the province is going to face the century.
I think that the way an al Hydro went about
this process is wrong, and I think that you know,
before with some of the people that were speaking out,

(35:32):
you know, there was some no motivations or easy discredits
you could look at. But once this person who was
selected to be on the independent Oversight Committee comes out
with that five page letter, if that doesn't start ringing
alarm bells for everyone in the province.

Speaker 8 (35:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (35:47):
At that point, it's like, what's it going to take
for people to understand that maybe this isn't the best
deal for the province.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
That's a big word maybe, And it's been probably doing
a lot of heavy lifting there, just like when me say,
if my question, Jeffrey, and this is a legitimate not
necessarily for you, but for everybody, is when the thought
is as playing as did we get the best deal
or not? I don't know how that gets answered. I
really do not know how that gets answered. Does hydrok Copec.

(36:15):
I'm sorry, go ahead, Yeah, I.

Speaker 6 (36:17):
Think you start from the process. Maybe to start, they
should have unbundled and done the purchase power green for
Churchill Falls as one negotiation, gull Island as a separate molu.
Because at least that way, like you and I can
argue about is the Churchill Falls deal fear, and you
and I can argue about the gull Island deal. But
once you're blumping together, if you don't like one part
and I don't like the other, we don't like the

(36:39):
whole deal. And if they unbundle it, I think that's
an easier thing to sell to people one way or
the other.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
Possibly, I mean the complexity of four projects even though
it's really two projects, because i've expansion at the upper
end or gold requires transmission because the obvious reasons. I
wonder whether or not that was just straight up non
started for hydro Copec, The reason I think it probably
was is because for decades we've been trying to renegotiate
the sixty nine contract, went so far as to take

(37:04):
them to court at least seven times to come short,
came up short every time. So I don't know whether
or not that was ever the starting point. We've tried
that for quite a long time and we haven't gotten
anywhere with the hydro Quebec.

Speaker 6 (37:16):
Well, then at that point, I think about what burn
Coffee had said when he analyzed it, and he said
we never tried to go to another buyer or another party,
either with the existing Churchill Falls assets or with development
of gal Island. We always had the laser focus on
hydro Quebec as the partner, and then that does seed
a fair bit of leverage in those negotiations. We didn't
even bother, according to Mike Wilson, we didn't even bother

(37:38):
to get an assessment of the value of gall Island
when we were talking about equity partnerships in it. So
I'm with you, like, you know, maybe it's best deal.
That word maybe is doing a lot of work there,
But I don't know if we followed a process to
verify that it was and I think that's why an
Alhydro is having such a problem in the public relations

(37:59):
of getting people on board with the deal. Like as
more people get re engaged with this issue, it seems
as though support for this is eroding. And I think
it's you know, for a variety of reasons that they
went about it maybe not the best way from the start.

Speaker 2 (38:13):
It could be a flawed process. I won't disagree with that,
you know, in so far as the value of goal.
Michael Wilson also made quick mention or part of me
quick mention. He also appointed two things like value, price
and cost. Equity is just a percentage of ownership. That's
not a real big deal on this one. But value
has burned Coffee pointed two. I think is an important
conversation we had because price and cost are specifics. Value

(38:36):
is a different one, and value is a floating target
when you talk about price elasticity and options into the
future for stacking out renewables or whatever the case may be.
But those three distinctions I think are lost on many
people that are you know, following along with this issue
and or reading some of the reports coming from the panel.
So what are your thoughts on that? Because there is
something missing in the value conversation. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (38:57):
To me, I think that power and electricity supch an
abstract thought. So I try to think of it in
terms of if I was walking on a street in
Toronto and I picked up two leaf tickets to the
Toronto Make Leafs, You've got the face value of the ticket.
That's what they cost. If you go to sell them
for more or less, that's the value. And to me,
the face value of the power is what it costs

(39:19):
the church will falls, which is point two cents to produce.
But the value is probably somewhere between the price they
got for in the new Molu two point five cents
and the replacement costs. Hydro Quebeca said sixteen to eighteen cents.
Somewhere in that spectrum. That's the value. And to me,
you know, I tend to agree with Burn Coffee. It's
a fixed value contract. So it's thirty three point eight billion.

(39:43):
That's what they're committed to pay new filand for all
the power that they're that's in the agreement. If the
if inflation changes, or if the if various other elements
macroeconomically change, new plants only seeing present value dollars a
thirty three point eight billion, and I think that's the
that's the point that Hydro needs to explain better, Like

(40:03):
if my assessment of that is wrong, they need to
convince people like me and the other you know, the
people I've read to kind.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
Of crib those that belief.

Speaker 6 (40:13):
But yeah, I think about you know, I think about
tickets to a concert or tickets to the make Leaf.
There's a face value and then there's what you pay
on the secondary market. And why is Newfouland potentially giving
that power away for less than the face value on
the ticket.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
It's a fair question inside that analogy. And you know,
people talk about what something is worth, like for instance,
my house, My house is worth exactly what someone's willing
to pay for it. And when you talk about picking
up tickets off the street, so you could either I
mean the face value these the ticket prices, what the
ticket price is. But if you go to scalp it.
If I'm setting alongside you and I'm trying to scalp

(40:48):
a pair of leave tickets for five hundred for the pair,
but buddy sat next to me, you know, reasonably similar
seats for four seventy five, I'm buying the four seventy fives.
When it comes to power, it's all about what's the
next expensive or at least cost option available inside the
market itself. Because if I'm in Connecticut and Hydrocobeck is
offered me you a twenty five year dal Left five
cents to kill a lot hour, but New Brunswick Powers

(41:09):
offered me the exact same term contract put at four
point seventy five cents. That's what you buy. So the
value was kind of a pretty difficult it's a difficult
thing to put into words and to put into a contract. Now,
Schedule Left does clearly say it is not a fixed
price like so many people are saying, I mean every.

Speaker 6 (41:27):
Time fixed value, it's not. They're right, it's not a
fixed price. It's a fixed value. The price escalates up
and down, right to come up with what the value of.

Speaker 8 (41:35):
The power is.

Speaker 6 (41:36):
But it's still a At the end of this deal,
as it is in the MLU New Flan is getting
thirty three point eight billion. Now if that thirty three
point eight billion because of inflation, is worth way more
or way less the value of that dollar, it's reflective
of what that value of that dollar is. Yeah, I know,
I just meant for like your audience, and like Mike
Wilson says, we all get kind of cost, price and

(41:57):
value interchangeable.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
But they're not. Absolutely they're not. I mean want to.

Speaker 6 (42:01):
Direct you on your show or whatever, not to cut
you off on your own show.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
Oh no, listen, your opportunity to talk, given the fact
that you may time for the program, is most welcomed. Jeffrey,
anything else you'd like to add to it this morning?

Speaker 6 (42:14):
Yeah, I think that you know, everyone who's listening to
Open Line is engaged in these issues. They're passionate about
the province. They're passionate about you know, politics, issues, society.
But we've got to break it out of this chain,
out of this audience, and we've got to start talking
to people who aren't engaged in this issue, get their thoughts,
inform them, say, look, this is the biggest decision the
province's going to take in the century. If you're listening

(42:37):
and you think this is a great deal, you should
tell people. If you think it's an average or bad deal,
you should tell people. But this has to become a
bigger talking point in the province.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, there's no doubt. But fair enough, I'll just throw
this out there. Look, and this will get me in
trouble with everybody, which is perfect. I think there are
exaggerations of the pros at exaggerations of the coms being offered.
I really truly believe that, and I'll take a lot
of heat for that, but I believe it. I also
think that historical context is playing a pretty massive role here.

(43:05):
I'll bounce this off, you'll get your perspective. I think
if the conversation was this negotiation has taken place between
the Province of Newfland, Laborage or Newfland, Labrador, Hydro and
Ameri and Nova Scotia Power and the Government of Nova Scotia,
it would it would sound different. It would have a
different tone, a different tenor what do you think? I
think that it absolutely.

Speaker 6 (43:25):
I think there's a large segment of Newfouland who seems
to have some type of grudge for Quebec on a
variety of levels. And I wish we would just check
that at the door and say, look, you know they're
the neighbor, they're you know, they're they're like now, on
one hand, when they talk about all Island, they say
Hydro Quebec is the best manager for a hydro electric

(43:45):
development in North America. So on one hand, like it's
great that we have this partner, but then on the
other hand, people are you know, have that have that
Quebec grudge. But yeah, I would rather people just look
at the merits of the value and the price and
let the data is be for itself. I mean, you know, yeah, Quebec.
Quebec's in Canada, They're a neighbor. There's you know, they're

(44:06):
wonderful people. It's an excellent place to visit and live. Yeah,
I don't know. I don't I don't participate in the
in the anti Quebec rhetoric, and I really hate that
that does complicate the dialogue around this deal.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Absolutely, yeah, because this is I don't like, this is
Party A negotiated with Party B. That's that's kind of
it for me. Jeffrey. Really appreciate your times for Mornie.
Thanks for doing it always. Thanks, take care, bye bye.
All right, let's get a break in. Don't away look
back to the show for those nick you stay right
there for after the news, we're nudging up against the
ten o'clock hour. I got a couple of emails saying, boy,

(44:39):
I sure glossed over who's the replacement for Michael Wilson
on the overside panel?

Speaker 5 (44:43):
All right?

Speaker 2 (44:44):
One email went on to say, I have no idea
who Guy Holburn is. Me neither, so just to fill
us all and including myself, about who Guy Holburn is
and his background. Professor of Business Economics of Public Policy
at the Abby Business School at Western University of Western Ontario,
working in corpner of governance, right galation, business strategy, Publishing
extensively in peer review journals, author numerous reports on energy policy.

(45:07):
Doctor Holburn founded and directed the IVY Energy Policy Management Center.
He served as a director as a director of London Hydro,
a member of the Alliance for Research on Corporate Sustainability,
a member of the Council for Clean and Reliable Energy
Death Let's see here. He's got a PhD and a
master's from the University of California, Berkeley. He's got an
honors degree from Cambridge University. He worked with a consultant

(45:28):
company called Bain. Isn't that what's his name? Former governor
of Utah? Is that his company? Who's going I'm thinking
of the tall, handsome billionaire senator. Anyway, he'll come to
me and also for the California Public Utilities Commission. All right, there,
let's check in on the Twitter box for vio similar pline.
You know what to do. Follow us there. Email address
is open line at FASM dot com. When brought up

(45:51):
the issue of the tractual arrangement between the regulated childcare
operators and the government regarding grants and the funding process
and the fact that they feel like they've been muzzled,
got some immediate pushback from someone inside the government. I
see the name, but I don't know who they are,
what the department they actually work for. But that at
the exact same time regulated childcare operator saying thank you

(46:12):
very much for bringing up because that is the reality
on the ground and it probably shouldn't be the case.
Then a quick mention of a question that I left
off with the Jerry Earl, the president of that name,
about the relationship between governments and organized labor, made very four,
very specific references to the relationship between federally regulated industries,

(46:32):
unionized workers, rails, ports, Canada posts and most recently Air
Canada flight attendants. They're referring back to Section seventeen, which
gives the minister unilateral rights to do exactly what's been
done order people back to work and or to order
bonding arbitration. The question is about just how commonplace it
is now and what that means between the relationship of unions,

(46:54):
the potential collective bargaining, and how governments are operating. You know,
and I did say, but carved it out that this
is a federally regulated issue, but the provincial conversations are
also happening. I think back a couple of years ago
in Ontario there was actually a threat of a general
strike and that was of course issues between Doug Ford
and the Prophet's teachers. They were threatening a general strike.

(47:15):
That conversation happening with national unions is absolutely on the
front burner. That's why I brought it up. Right, Let's
get to the news when we come back, we'll talk
to it someone running for Torbay Town Council and then
Pj's in the queue to talk about the MoU don't away.
Welcome back. Let's go to let number four saying you
go wing to the executive director at the Saint John's
International Women's Film Festival. That's Jen Brown. Hi, Jen, you're

(47:38):
on the air. Good morning, Good morning to you. Welcome
to the show.

Speaker 9 (47:43):
Thanks much for having me.

Speaker 8 (47:44):
What's going on, Well, what's not going on?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
From I know?

Speaker 9 (47:48):
We are in the peak of our busy season. We're
amp and up for our big thirty sixth annual festivals
this October from the twenty first to the twenty fifth,
so we are locking film programming and industry panels and
parties and events and all of that really good stuff.
But we also just launched a new initiative, so we

(48:10):
have a producer's cohort that we just announced yesterday. The
festival has been long supporting artists. I mean, that's really
core to our mandate, you know, is trying to imagine
a gender equitable and artist centered film industry, and we've
been doing it in so many ways. Of course, one
of the biggest compliments I could ever hear from the

(48:31):
film community saying, this festival puts its money where its
mouth is, you know, and really sees us removing barriers
for the community, for artists wherever it's possible. And how
to you know, make this the place to be and
the opportunity to come out here, whether you're local filmmakers
or visiting. How can we just connect the most brilliant
minds together to make connections and art and you know,

(48:55):
bring productions here and bring new films here and bring
new ideas. So this Producer's pro it's open to ten
women and gender diverse producers from all over the country.
We are covering all their travel, accommodations, per DMS access
to the festival. And we're really doing this to strengthen
Newfland laborers film sector by connecting these producers who you know,

(49:16):
are the folks making these businesses happen along with the
writers and directors here and they need to have either
a pre existing relationship or an emerging relationship with Newsland
levers screen sector. So we're really excited to see how
many people can we get here, which new projects can happen,
and yeah, we're really excited to see which kind of

(49:39):
films this might build and develop for us to be
able to screen in the future.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
I'm not sure why I know this, but I know
they'd launched the same thing out in Whistler at their
their film festival. It's an international folks. I believe Ruth
Lurrits is actually part of their cohort, their producer's Cohorts.
They had a keen focus on the only go ahead.

Speaker 7 (49:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (49:59):
The only difference with that is it's quite expensive for
the artists themselves to participate in that. So an incredible
program that we really looked at. What are producers here?
Like Ruth is such an exact excellent example of Wow,
you need more training, you need more connection with other producers.
Where are you going outside the province to get it?

(50:19):
But then also you know that came with a very
expensive tuition, and it came with a lot of additional
fees for travel and gaining around and you know, like
your food and your badges and all of that stuff.
So we are really micking what works really well elsewhere
and how can we invest in artists so that we
can remove as many of those financial barriers as possible.

Speaker 2 (50:39):
Is there any one person who's going to play the
role as mentor inside this because out a whistler, I
can't remember the fella's name, but he's a Canadian Screen
Award nominee, director or producer, a writer this and that.
I think his name is Josh someone. Anyway, is there
one specific mentor inside this cohort?

Speaker 9 (50:55):
Instead, it'll be bigger So with this one of the
key So Sotember twenty second will be anno incenter full
festival lineup, including our full film industry forum lineup. So
festival week features films, features, short filmstocks, animations, and then
five days of industry panels and artists Q and as
pitch sessions workshops. So this producer's Cohort will be part

(51:18):
of our film form and industry credation is actually open
now as well, so anyone from outside of the province
or locally can apply for that. We've kept it really affordable.
We're also offering really high subsidy discounts for local artists
as well as a bunch of free waivers that we're
going to offer it so you can request a fee
waiver if you're a local artists here. You can even

(51:39):
apply for childcare stipens and caregiver sipens. But the Producer's
Cohort will be under that umbrella and it will also
work hand in hand. We are bringing all of the
film commissioners pretty much from across the country.

Speaker 10 (51:54):
To the festival.

Speaker 9 (51:55):
We're really leaning in this year to Canada. How do
we really foster into prevent chill co productions and projects.
We're bringing over all those funders and financers and decision
makers here.

Speaker 5 (52:08):
The dots.

Speaker 7 (52:09):
So how do we.

Speaker 9 (52:09):
Put directors, writers and producers together in the same room
with all of the funders, broadcaster, streamers, you name it,
and let's see what kind of really sincere relationships can
be made and projects that can then be initiated by
connecting all those dots.

Speaker 2 (52:26):
How would the inter provincial issue be complicated by the
fact that different provinces have different policies in place, in
different tax credits to what have you. You know, we're
very attractive because of tax credits, So how does that
factor So.

Speaker 9 (52:37):
That's well for our Newfland laborers film industry. About seventy
percent of the money that comes in from interprovincial co
productions is new money that's coming into the province, so
extremely important to our sector, which you know was about
to hit a billion dollars of economic activity over the
creations of picture and now our local Film Commission. We

(52:58):
have an incredibly attractive acts incentives, which is they're absolutely
vile to the success of our industry. Different provinces play
a little bit differently. I mean, you know, so many
of our shows and long running series here have been
Ontario Newfoundland co productions.

Speaker 8 (53:14):
They all were all.

Speaker 9 (53:15):
The provinces and territories work a little bit different. But
that's why we're getting all of those folks around the
same table and we're bringing them here. So we're really
sincerely bringing the whole film industry here to New flind
Labrador for the festival, because not only is it, you know,
for you to be able to say, hey, I want
to do something in BC and with New Fland, can
I talk to the people to face to face to
figure out how do I make this work to the

(53:37):
best of you know, make it the most ideal situation
for the artists and the producers of course, and the
most lucrative for them to be able to financially the
feasibility there. But then also to see well what are
the in betweens of that relationship of you know what,
maybe doesn't quite work with Newfland and BC for that
particular project, but you know, we have Ontario creeds here

(53:59):
as well. Maybe that's a conversation you should have. Really
just trying to put all of the cards and the
options on the table here for artists, how to empower
them with the knowledge, the relationships and really the ability
to feel empowered and have some back and forth of
right here's what I want. How can I really navigate
this system and find the best fit that's going to

(54:22):
be a win win for my project and you know,
remove as many barriers as you know as possible, because
now more than ever, if we're talking about how do
you make those relationships and those business deals happen. If
you're a New Fland Labrador artist, it means that you're
going to have to leave the province unless you're really
here for our festival.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, I mean the tax credits which are very lucrative.
What that's led to is a professionally trained and experienced
TV and film crew, the reasons why people like Disney
come to town. So it's had a huge benefit. It's
an economic driver. Now you add this purpose built TV
film sound stage that's going to be emballing a fifty
million dollar project. That's just another shot in the arm

(55:01):
that's going to only to good things.

Speaker 9 (55:04):
Absolutely, and that's it. Like our festival, we screen work
written and directed by women and gender diverse artists, but
the same JOS Inter National Film Women's Film Festival has
really served as a film school in this province for
over thirty years, and we take that very seriously and
what all the incredible things that's happening here in our
province at the new sound stage, like the big productions
that are coming here. We want to really figure out, well,

(55:27):
what's missing? Who else needs to be in this room?
Who else can we introduce to Last year, our festival
brought in Netflix. Netflix doesn't do film festivals. We you know,
really built that. That relationship got them to come here
and we extended their itinerary. We created more space opportunities
for them to have producer meetings, one on ones, location scouts.

(55:50):
After our festival last year, the untitled Netflix series was announced.
So like, we know that we have that power of
connecting the right people in the right place and the
magic that can happen as a result. So we're just
continuing building on that, taking the next step further and
looking at you know, who deserves to be in these
rooms and can't get their foot through the door. Well,

(56:10):
we're going to remove as many as those barriers as
possible and open up that door wide and you're going
to come here. And we're really excited about what can
happen if we really give people those opportunities, and especially
focusing back on need to reinvest in our province and
our film industry and all of our artists. The talent
and the caliber of storytellers, skilled crews, resources stages here

(56:33):
is absolutely incredible. We just really want to break about
it in a bigger way and get more people here
once they experience it, once we're on the ground, as
all they need to say, Wow, what's in the water here,
Like I want to come back and now I know
all the people who are going to work with, who
I'm going to hire, or how I'm going to get
the funding and why this is really the best business
move for me as well as artistically the best move.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, we punched above our weight in the world of
the arts and every gamu Jenna believe you're on your way.
Really do, we really do believe your anuator, Tiff, So
enjoy that and I appus share your time this morning.
Thank you so much, pleasure of take care. Thanks bye bye.
Jen Brown, executive director at the Saint John's International Women's
Film Festival. You're thirty six, coming up, fantastic. Let's take
a break, don't go ahead, welcome back. Let's go to

(57:16):
light number three. PJ around the air.

Speaker 8 (57:19):
Oh, good morning, Patty, good morning, good morning, I've just
wanted to bring you back to Tuesday for a second
if I could. On Tuesday, you had the CEO of
Hydro on and your post a few questions, which was great.
One of the questions was why, in the case of
Beata sphere expansion, hydro is an agreement to do a

(57:41):
robust study of that, but in the case of the
MoU of Churchill Falls, they're not in agreement to do
such a robust study. And surprising The answer was something
that I think is surprising. The leads further some further
work on the response was well, because data Spear has

(58:02):
to go in front of the pub and Churchill Falls
MoU doesn't have to go in front of the pub.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
I mean, technically it has been exempt, but that doesn't
mean that that should be the case. I mean, if
the Love Law recommendations are clear, and I believe I
know who you are, and you set me an email
on this front, and I read some of it actually
live on the airs, if it's a project in excess
of fifty million dollars, it requires rowbust independent review. And
I asked the question pretty straightforward. It technically might be

(58:29):
accurate what she said, but that doesn't mean it's the
best thing.

Speaker 8 (58:33):
Yeah, and it's I think if most people read the
review and he was very blunt in his word and
he said, never should they do a project over fifty
million dollars. It doesn't matter what the project is with
the hospital generating station doesn't matter. I don't think if
you contacted him, might be a valuable exercise for someone

(58:55):
in the media to contact him and get his view
on his recommendation number one and what he thinks it
should be applicable. I think it's precisely the type of
project that he envisions that New Poland take on a
robust review on this, but it's open to determination. He
made the recommendation, the new Plant government accepted it, and
here I believe you could argue it seems to be

(59:17):
skirting around that recommendation at the very first opportunity. That
seems to be ineffective and mind boggling. But it appears
where we're going obviously, like the Premier now is coming
out and speaking and trying to defend some of things
on price. But I think on price and this would

(59:38):
come out in a robust review of course, is that
the price that hydro Quebec is going to pay for
the new electricity out of gull Island is on a
cost plus fate. It's not the rate that's in the
schedule g So people need to understand these distinctions that
they'll could end up paying less per kilowatt for this
new energy than the old energy, if I can put

(59:59):
it that way. So these are things that really need
to be you know, ironed out.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
I'm not so sure I understand the concept of paying
less than the current price of energy if that's what
you actually said, or maybe I misheard what was said,
because at this today, hydro Gobeck is paying zero point
two cents for killot hour at the protection, which is
exactly why their revenues have been in the neighborhood twenty
eight billion dollars, while liars are just short of two

(01:00:29):
billion dollars. So did I miss here or misrepresentations?

Speaker 8 (01:00:32):
I may have misspoken, but what I'm saying is that
the new energy from Gull Island could very well be
cheaper than what they have to pay for the energy
out of Churchill Falls under the new PPA arrangement, is
what I'm saying. You're right, currently they get it for nothing.
The CEO said, yes, you're getting it free now, which
is an amazing thing, but that's the fact. But under

(01:00:54):
the new arrangement for Churchill Falls proper the legacy plant,
they're going to pay on average sixth sense over the period.
But the rate out of gull Island could very much
be less than that because they're admortizing it over sixty
five years. So the expense is going to be for
the rate for the electricity for the new i call

(01:01:15):
it new electricity out of gull Island and out of
Churchill Falls number two is going to be on a
cost plus basis. It's not the rate that's in schedule ge.
So those are the things that are really in here
that the government and Hydro are not making or not
forthcoming with. And that's just one of them. There's a

(01:01:37):
host of things in here. I mean, how many people
in New Finland realize that this is really a sixty
five year agreement again, because the fifty year clock does
not commence until Churchill Falls number two generating station is
functioning well, folks, that's tail twelve to fifteen years from today,
so that's when the fifty year clock starts. So we're

(01:01:57):
precisely in another sixty five idea or agreement, and there's
a host of issues within an MoU about how much
control hydro Quebec has over the project. Newfoundland is not
involved in the critical decision making paths for these projects.
At Gaull Island or at Church of Ball's Number two,

(01:02:18):
they're not there. You're at the table, but they don't
have much of a boat in anything. They have no
veto boat, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
Yeah, I'm not so number one in wrestles show about
when the clock starts, but I'm certainly not sure about
how much control. Look, people point to that specific issue
all the time, and I get it, and I understand
why they do it. But if we are not funding
any of the construction, assuming any of the liabilities at call,
how much they could we actually pragmatically have. It's similar

(01:02:45):
in the oil business, right, We'll take a ten percent
equity stake in one oil field or another, which means
we have a seated at the table with Zerosa. So
I'll make that analogy because that's how it works in
the oil industry. But if we're not assuming any of
the risk or any of the cost at call, what's
sort of control could we expect?

Speaker 8 (01:03:02):
Well, I mean, this is a matter of interpretation. How
much risk there is. I mean, you look at risk.
There's all kinds of risks in this industry. And I'll
speak with a mirror in a second because it affects
the Lill. But I mean the the fifty year o'
clock starts after the functioning of Churchill falls generation number two.
It's in the MoU. It's there. It's one of the

(01:03:24):
easiest things in the MoU to take out from it.
It's there. It's a sixty five year agreement and they're
going to amortize any of the costs for these projects
over sixty five years as well. So that's in the MoU.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
Now, Oh, I know what the MoU says. But my
comment was, I don't know how long it's going to
take for proposed expansion at the uper Churchill. So whether
it's eight, ten, twelve, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen years, I don't know.
That's what I meant.

Speaker 8 (01:03:51):
Well, they have they have the dates in the MoU
with the proposed dates. They talk about ten years, but
ten years from now we're already basically in twenty twenty
six and this is you know, so we're talking definitely
twelve years which brings us very close to, you know,
the twenty forty one mark. Not that that's but it
just gives you an appreciation how long these things take

(01:04:12):
to get the build. But that is when the fifty
ye o'clock starts. So you know, people need to understand that.
And I don't think that the people are being presented
with the facts around this because no rough study, none
of the facts. It hasn't been dumbed down. I was
in business doing this for government and in my career,

(01:04:33):
and part of my job was to what to call,
dumb this down for the executives. So we're taken MoU
like this and had to dumb it down paragraph by
paragraph so that the executives could make understand it. Because
as sure as they're sitting in those positions and executives
and all companies, they can't understand this stuff same as
a lot of people can't. So that has to be

(01:04:55):
dumbed down. They're not dumbing it down for people in
Newfouland for just trying to rush it. And I mean,
look at mister Wilson, he resigned four months ago, did
not come out and express the government that we're going
to find somebody else and I mean when you look
at the terms of reference for that panel, I mean
the government is vetting all the candidates and they preside

(01:05:17):
present the names to mister Brown and he picks the one.
So I mean the process around that, and I mean
we don't need to speak on that much further, but
I mean mister Wilson's basically said obviously he's in a
non disclosure but basically what he's saying is that, you know,
it's just not task that you know, people expect from
that panel. And here's the envision and I'll just move

(01:05:39):
on to a mirror, is that I envision this MLU.
People can envision this like a garbage bag and this
process this panel is going to do. They're going to
take the content of that garbage bag and put it
in twelve other garbage bags, but they're going to be
darker and you're not going to be able to see
through them as easily. So there's there's really a need
to you know, get get a robust study and people,

(01:06:03):
I think in New Zealand that need to really you know,
show some initiative on that and try to try to
get more people involved to understand and put the pressure
on the on the government to go for about study.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
Okay, you know, before we run out of time, though, PJ,
can we get to your implication regarding a error and
the little I'm interested to hear what you have to say.

Speaker 8 (01:06:24):
Yeah, So a Mirror, of course was involved with the
Muskrat folds and and they have they had a stake
in the LILL but they sold they sold that steak
last year to an investment company. And you know that's
so they've divested themselves of that stake, for it's in
the in the public domain. It's a billion dollars plus.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Uh.

Speaker 8 (01:06:48):
This company took on some other commitments. But you know,
this is a case here with a Mirror, which is
a private company in Nova Scotia as you know, and
their comparable the Hydro and New pland for people that
may not understand that, but they dougsted the risk of
the LIL. That's essentially what they've done here. They've now

(01:07:10):
have that company, an investment company, owns that portion of
the value, which from what I can gather, Hydro pays
quarterly payments to now and Ameer has washed their hands
of not maybe not one hundred percent, but certainly the
majority of the risk. Now they've removed themselves for because

(01:07:30):
they're a private company and their shareholders would look at
the Lill and say that's a high risk. We have
to deal with it. They dealt with it. They dealt
with it last year and they're no longer. They own
the maritime link, of course, but the lit part, they're
not invested in it as much now.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Yeah, and I think that's the right way to put it.
I don't think they gave up one hundred percent of
their equity piece in that, but you are right it
has been divested in part to some sort of hedge
fund company or private equity for or whatever the right
phrase is, PJ anything else before I have to get out,
say goodbye and move Answer well.

Speaker 8 (01:08:05):
I mean, I think we need to understand the strategies
of Quebec Hydro in this like their main strategy is
to learn about how to become a world leader in
small hydropower station construction, development, whatever you put it. And
that's precisely I think what they're up to with the

(01:08:25):
Churchill Falls number two plant. There's not an expansion. I
think they can be called it that in Newfouland, but
in Quebec they call it c F two Churchill Falls
number two and that's a separate plant. And the question
remains is the investment in that the value of that
for a thousand megawatts really the best best business scenario,
which questionable when you look at the output of potential

(01:08:49):
output of go all islands. So these are the questions
that could come out of a robust review. But the
thing about it they have they want to be leaders
in that kind of construction and they have full control
over that project. They're not sharing the IP, the plans,
nothing with new planed hydro, it's all in the MoU.
So these are a strange relationship to get get involved with.

(01:09:14):
And so I mean there's then the other. The last
point is that you know hydros Quebec. I think they're
one of their main objectives is to get electricity to
New York City. That's what they're doing. It's it's in
their objectives and they will do it. They will do
it at any cost and whether the federal government helps
subsidize it. But they will do it because they see

(01:09:36):
it as a very lucrative markets.

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
Sure. I mean they've got huge domestic demands too for power.
They've turned down budget commercial and industrial applications in the
last five years, because then the reason is always the same.
They don't have the power. So yeah, I mean getting
it to the market that will pay the most money
for it. Is also that cost benefit analysis of how
much is the benefit domestically if and when they are things?

(01:10:00):
And I know they've had some problems in the recent
past like north Fault has gone by the way side
and things, but you know, job creation expan at tax
space for domestic use the power versus straight up revenue
for hydro quebec uh selling, whether it being Connecticut or
New England or New York itself. I appreciate the time.
PJ enjoyed the chat. All right, thank you, thanks all
the best. All right, by bye, all right, just get
to the break, don't go away. Welcome back to the show.

(01:10:23):
Let's go to lightning number two. Good morning Paul to me,
you're on the air.

Speaker 11 (01:10:27):
Good morning Patty. How are you this morning?

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Not too bad? Is that a good phone line? Dave?
Oh boy, I put Paul on hop figure that out.
Let's go to light number one. Second. More to the
PC member for Top Sovil of Paradise, Opposition critic for Education,
Children and Youth Services, that's Paul Den Paul, you're on.

Speaker 5 (01:10:42):
The air, Hi, Patty, thanks for taking my call, No problem,
I just actually I just thank you some information on
the topic you raised in your preamble, and that was
around the letter that's now I received, and I think
it's mean searcially to media on childcare and particularly from

(01:11:02):
operators that are afraid to speak up or can't speak
up because of clauses that they've saw in non disclosure
clauses within their agreements for the operating grant. And as
you know, I've had a couple of town halls over
the years, last yearne in this tune and communication has
been a huge piece or sorry, lack of communication has

(01:11:25):
been a huge piece when it comes to these you
know talk care centers and operators who are trying to
open new facilities and increase you know, the spaces and
that for those out there that need it and are
being met with you know, just stop order, so to speak,
where they just can't get any more progress or any
response from government. And they've had cross their t's and

(01:11:48):
doted their eyes and they are ready to go, but
yet they can't, they can't speak up on that. They
just have to wait and wait and wait and right now.
I mean, if you're dealing with childcare and you know,
trying to make a better program out there and deal
with issues, then you really need to have that discussion
with the childcare operators to what end.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Because look, I get the concept of being silenced or
muzzled just because you have to play nice to get
access to an operating grant, But you know, communication with
families to what end? Because for me, it really does
kind of feel like a relationship between the operator and
the government, and families don't really know exactly what's going
on in that front. They just want the care to

(01:12:33):
be appropriate and happy and healthy and dignified for their children.
So communication with the families to what end?

Speaker 5 (01:12:39):
Well with the families, I mean what I've heard over
the last couple of months, have heard from a lot
of operators who can't offer can't get approved, can't get
offered the sign up for the operating grant program which
provides a ten dollars day take care, And it's the
operators that are dealing with the parents, and you know,

(01:13:01):
they can't speak up and say well, we're waiting on
this from government, or government hasn't done that they're taking
the front of this. But at the end of the day,
if you've got callcare operators that are ready and willing
and ready to go and can't get responses from government,
then that falls back on less spaces and less accessibility
for parents. I mean that's the issue. But I mean,

(01:13:24):
you know, one of them was reading and with the
letter that came the other day, looking at like operators
cannot say that, you know, they cannot say what the
issue is and they cannot get answers from government on this.
Some of the operators are suggesting that the budget has
been exhausted and yet they can't get anything on that.
You know, it's just disturbing you when you hear the

(01:13:45):
stories of these operatorss across the province that have done everything,
have brand new buildings some of them, and cannot get
any further progress on offering the ten dollars day daycare.

Speaker 2 (01:13:56):
Oh yeah, I mean I get that communication with the
perspective families, they were trying to get a new facility
off the ground. My thoughts were on any issues regarding
communication between the governments and the operator, regarding operating the grants,
the operating funds. That's what I was referring to because
like if I'm if I'm the parent of the three
year old at Apples and Acorns, I only care about,

(01:14:19):
you know, ten dollars a day and all the working
machinations between the operator and the government. That's not really
my contern My concern is a healthy spot for my
child to be looked after and to be taught. I
should also add.

Speaker 5 (01:14:31):
No, that's exactly right. And what what I've seen happen.
I heard. You know, when when school got out, there's
some operators that were funded and offered the operating grant
through the school year, but when it came to the
summer program, they couldn't get it, which makes no sense.
You know, it's the same same facility, same operator. So

(01:14:52):
they're they're figuring it had something to do with budget.
I don't know, because no one's been told that. But
here we are. You know, we hear the releases on
so many positions created or spaces created. But from what
I'm hearing, there's an opportunity that should have created many
many more spaces, and we're not seeing or hearing it,

(01:15:12):
and we're not hearing why that's not so. And you know,
when the minister spoke on this or had the press
release a couple of weeks back. You know, people asked about, well,
how many are on the wait lists on the Gateway,
and I mean, when when you're making a release on
chalk here, you should know that the minister at the
time didn't know that. I know it's somewhere around nine
to ten thousand people, and there's issues around that, but

(01:15:34):
these are the concerns that need to be addressed. And
if it's at that amount of people, then we certainly
need to have more spaces. And if there's childcare centers
out there that are ready to operate and have done
everything that's been asked of them, my question becomes is
why why are they not being open? Why are they

(01:15:55):
not being read assigned the contracts? And from what I'm hearing,
there's many in that position, but they cannot speak out
because if they speak out, they're fearful of either being
written or their facility being visited and delayed. Even more,
it's not right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
No, it isn't right. While we have you, I'm just
going to read this, and this is from an operator
who wants to remain anonymous for the obvious reasons. I'd
love to commind the show, but I know that as
a non operator to be serious for percussion from the Department.
I didn't hear your PREAMBA, but I had a phone
call from a concerned citizen that I know very well
he would this person, I don't know if to hear she.
I would like to conform confirm that gag orders. Operators,

(01:16:35):
licencies and administrators are not allowed to speak out. When
you signed the operating grant program for ten dollars a day,
there's an NDA disclosure in that we cannot even as
much as take these contracts to a lawyer or financial
officer to review before we sign it. Oftentimes we were
given no more than forty eight hours to review these
contracts before they have to be signed and returned. Not
only are we being gagged, but there are horror stories

(01:16:55):
and centers across the islands and in Labrador who are
trying to expand their and greet childcare and they cannot
get any answers from the Department. This is both for
not for profit and for profit sector owner operators in
the childcare field. Right now, everyone's has their tied at
the expense of the Liberal government and the Department of
Early Learning. Most of these announcements they have been making
all summer have been projects that have been ongoing since

(01:17:16):
twenty twenty three. It's time for the public to know
that the department is failing to the public with childcare.
From an operator, well, I.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
Can't argue that, because in the town halls I've had,
that's been the common common thought, and going forward, there
was to talk that a couple of operators or to
the end of their line for them, and they were
going to go public. But I guess, you know, in
an afterthought, and that's what I was waiting on, because
you know, nothing pushes the envelope more than hearing from

(01:17:45):
the real people with the real lived experiences. But now
they've come down they said, no, we got to get
this out there, and hence there was a letter circu
lady yesterday. I haven't seen the one new just reference,
but it's it's you know, you're hearing from so many
I can't and from across province, you know, like they say,
where they're smoke, there's fire, and this is this is unreal.

(01:18:05):
What's happening here? When accessible childcare is something that's been
boasted about and something we need. There's no doubt about it.
But if they're you know, at least for government to
come clean on this and just say well we run
out of funding or tell us, tell us what the
plan is, because I know we're talking to the group
ABC's and ECS. I mean they're telling us that the

(01:18:25):
contract that's been signed by the province in Canada on
this grant, they're telling us that that new Folanta is
way behind under targets in terms of coverage. So we
need to see the real picture here. We need open
the communications lines where no one's fearful of ramifications and
focus on focus on the children. Is the children at

(01:18:48):
the end of this who are suffering and appearance who
cannot get their children into affordable and accessible child here.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
That's the bottom line. Two obvious questions. Let's just say
the Tories are successful and you become the minister responsible
as opposed to the opposition critic, would you remove every
single restriction and these gag orders from the operators of
these regulated childcare facilities. They can say what they want,
when they want to who they want.

Speaker 5 (01:19:11):
I think I think communications is key, but I think
that's the question though.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Would you remove all of the restrictions that you're complaining
about today, we.

Speaker 5 (01:19:20):
Certainly have to look at it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
I would remove them.

Speaker 5 (01:19:22):
I mean, what's in there the seven point one and
the seven point two in the agreement, I mean that
is a gag order. But the other piece on this
too with Patty is childcare operators cannot contact the department.
They have to go to an email address, so those
simple communication lines are not open. You want, you want
to have a working relationship with those out there who

(01:19:45):
are who are offering the childcare. You have to have
a working relationship with them. What's there now is not
creating that working relationship. And people who know me, I
will create a working relationship with them to ensure that
we're here hearing from them what's working, what's not working.
How do you improve a system if you put a
gag order on them?

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
Also, if you were successful. When we hear announcements about
the numbers of childcare spaces created, what we don't get
is a net number. We're not told how many have
been lost or how many are on the sidelines waiting
for government approval. Would that be those all those three
composed to be part of announcements if and when you
were the minister. That's the full picture.

Speaker 5 (01:20:22):
You have to be open and transparent and present that
full picture. Hence why I mentioned the gateway that they
have and the nine thousand that are on that. And
incidentally that nine thousand you don't know if they got
the childcare and remove themselves from a list or not.
The whole piece of being open and transparent is the
way to deal with the issue. You can't give partial

(01:20:44):
answers on what's happening. There's a full equation involved in this.
It's what you've created and we've seen it the same
with healthcare. We've seen the same with healthcare. You know,
you're bringing so many healthcare professionals, okay, but how many
have left, how many are gone this way? How many
are not actually in the field but are teaching. You know,
these are infested data that needs to be out there,
and it's only if you put it out there you're

(01:21:05):
going to hear back from those what lived experiences that
will tell you some solutions. I mean, it's it's you've
got to work together on this and you've got to
have the full information.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Absolutely, a hundred percent. I got to get to the break, Paul,
to appreciate the time. Look, thanks for taking call. Hey, pleasure,
all the best, Bye bye, all the best. All right,
let's take a break up the capacia of a better
fall line. Soock was Paul Toomey. He wants to make
his announcement as a candidate down to our bay and
then whatever you want to talk about, don't away. Welcome
back to the show. Let's go line number three. Paul Toomey,
you're on the air.

Speaker 11 (01:21:36):
I've had any Thanks for taking my call, and hopefully
you've got a better line right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Better line now, great.

Speaker 11 (01:21:42):
Excellent kind of stonle my thunder just before you went
to break that time. Yeah, I am calling this morning
to announce that I'm going to take around at municipal politics.
I'm going to run for a counselor position in the
town of Torbay, place where I've lived for the last
forty four years and to watch my family grow, and

(01:22:02):
I've watched the town grow over that period of time
as well, and I think the time has come for
me to give a given a shot to try to
continue to help that growth in the town and see
us continue to grow and deal with some of the
major issues that are going to be facing the town
in the coming years.

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
Growth is a fascinating issue when you talk about municipalities
like we'll hear both about Paradise and conception based South
and I get you know, it's a lot to be
proud of. But growth has to be carefully managed, if
not micromanaged, because it can't create problems at the same
time as it creates economic opportunity.

Speaker 11 (01:22:40):
For instance, Yeah, you're absolutely right that in for example,
in tor Bay, one of the major issues right now
is water the ability to develop land that is available,
but as you said, to develop it properly. We don't
have enough water in Tour Bay. We have some opportunities
to develop new water sources, and there are a bunch

(01:23:02):
of things that need to be looked at. The federal
government has just recently announced a major contribution, but unfortunately
that major contribution still leaves the town looking at nine
to ten million dollars to be able to pull off
the project. And for a smaller town of eight thousand people,
a nine million dollar debt is a challenge that needs

(01:23:23):
to be very, very properly managed if we're going to
move ahead. I'm really interested in seeing economic growth, but
again not at the risk of putting the town into debt.
So I'd like to be a part of that for
the next four years. I think the current mayor of
Craig Scott, I've watched him for the past eight years,
has done a very very good job of leading the town.

(01:23:45):
He's been available, he's been open to people, and I'd
love to have the opportunity to work with him as
we go forward to solve those problems, but also to
maintain Torbet as a safe place with access to services
that meet the needs of all our residents. That includes housing, recreation,
you name it, and I'm up for the challenge and

(01:24:05):
i want to give it a draw.

Speaker 2 (01:24:07):
Yeah, you mentioned water, and I'm always reminded of the
well water poisoning down in Torbay as well with the
Forever chemicals. I know that's as much a federal issue
for insofar as solutions to be found, because it's a
federal problem. They cause it with the well. You know,
the airport is of course in tor Bay, but airports
are federally regulated and those firefighting exercises are the responsibility

(01:24:27):
of the federal government. Anyway, We'll put that out there.
In so far as housing and stuff goes, where do
you start, because you know there can indeed be land
available or made available, but not everything has to be
a single detached family home like a twelve or square
foot bungalow. In your mind, are there are room for
other types of development, like we're talking about building up

(01:24:48):
not out here in Saint John's, which I think is mandatory.
Then it's the concept of tiny homes and modular homes
and four apartment units, those types of things. Where's your
head on housing?

Speaker 11 (01:24:58):
Yeah, my head's right where you're basically saying right now,
you know, and my wife and I are good examples.
We live in a fairly large house in tor Bay
right now with a significant mout of land. When we
build it ten years ago, we were ten years younger
and it was a great spot. Love to do all

(01:25:19):
the gardening, love to do all the maintenance in the house.
But we're reaching the stage where, whether we want to
or whether we don't want to, we need to downsize.
But we very definitely want to, say in tor Bay,
and that's just the thing. But there's nowhere there. There's
nothing in the way of good senior living. And I

(01:25:40):
think there's some developments on the horizon, and that's one
of the things I would like to see the opportunity
for a multi building, multi unit buildings, I think has
got to be explored. But again, a lot of it
comes back to the water. Some great projects out there
right now, but unfortunately the big question market is enough
water to support them? And what impact will it have

(01:26:02):
on the neighbors the neighbors in the area, And that's
something I think that has to be clearly, clearly considered.
So yeah, different different types of housing is very important,
and I'm fully supportive of moving in that direction.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Yeah, like back when there was I think it was
Pouchcob at the time, they were denying an application for
someone to build a tiny home and some of the
neighbors of the residents were saying, you know, it's going
to decrease my property value and what have you. Now,
times and tunes have changed, and municipalities especially you know,
i'll say smaller communities than versus Saint John's, those types
of municipalities. If they fully latch onto and buy into

(01:26:39):
tiny home, modular home and actually create some of these
subdivisions that would be exactly that shared service, what up,
They're going to see people move.

Speaker 11 (01:26:45):
In absolutely, And I think that then cuts the whole region,
and I think that's the way we have to think
in to our Bay as well. What can we do
that's going to benefit the entire region. I mean, you
mentioned earlier on your show this morning about a development
of a studio film studio down in the town of
ballein which you have to go right by my house

(01:27:07):
to get to Balline. So I think about the opportunity
is that that presents for our town and region as
a whole, in terms of the restaurants, in terms of
the stores, you name it. I mean, it's going to
bring more people to the area. The tourism opportunity we
have in Tour Bay with the History House and expanding
that to have more of the great history of Torbay

(01:27:29):
and to talk about what's happened in the community is
so so important, needs to preserved and needs to be preserved,
needs to be shown to attract more people to the
area as well.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
And Tourbay Road itself, once you leave the intersection of
Stavanger Drive in Torbay Road becomes a racetrack. And I
know that's not necessarily a municipal issue, so to speak,
but it is noticeable. It's like you just changed into
a different jurisdiction. You go past the angle drive and
look out because I know it's so wide that it
just invites people to be heavy with the out pedal. Anyway,

(01:28:01):
I appreciate the time. Good luck out there, Paul.

Speaker 11 (01:28:03):
Patty, thanks very much in your time. And just say
to the citizens of Tour Bay, those who you know
who know who I am, and you know me from
probably hearing me on radio quite a bit as well.
I'd appreciate your support on October the second.

Speaker 2 (01:28:17):
Thanks Paul, all the best, Thanks Patty. Okay, bye, goodbye.
All right, let's take a break. When we come back.
Rolla Drew. He's what the vow R has been for
our long time. We're going to help him promote a
concert coming up to benefit vow R. Coler on the
Q wants to talk about the MoU and Geneva wants
to talk about water quality up the shore Okaway.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
You were listening to a rebroadcast VOCM open Line. Have
your say by calling seven oh nine two seven, three
fifty two eleven or one triple eight five ninety eight
six two six and listen live weekday mornings at nine am.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Welcome back to the show. Let's go to number sixth.
Geneva you're on the air, Hi, Patty.

Speaker 10 (01:28:59):
Continue. This is the first time I've ever done this.
But I'm at my wits end. I don't know what
to do.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
What's happening.

Speaker 10 (01:29:08):
AUGUSTA night, we had a water problem and baybulls. I
lived in Naples and the fourteen units here the pomp
or the water went, don't know anyway, didn't have no water.
The landlord got a truck come in and the truck
carries water sewer. I guess August night. That Saturday morning,

(01:29:35):
I got up nine point thirty, take my pills. I
put them out under the tap and swallowed gas. The
truck brought had gas previously in that truck and now
terminated the whole units. It's been ongoing. I took a

(01:29:55):
sample down to.

Speaker 5 (01:29:57):
The old General.

Speaker 10 (01:29:59):
They only checked for E. Coli and something else, not gas.
He told me to go to Higgins Line. I went
to Higgins Line. They don't do gas.

Speaker 7 (01:30:08):
I would have to do.

Speaker 10 (01:30:11):
Kinada Environment, so I contacted them. But I would have
to get a sample. It would have to be really
fast because gas evaporates or something, and it will cost
me two hundred dollars to get that sample. So I
contacted Environment consultants. They give me a number, but don't.

(01:30:33):
I don't know what to do. I'm informed of my
landlord till we're running out of water. He's bringing in
water once a day filling up the tank. Now, first
when he we had a drought or problems with it
and he brought the truck in, it was the same truck.
How many water he brought truck in it had it

(01:30:54):
kept this going. Then he changed that and got a
container used to be filled twice a day. We didn't
run out of water. Then he went and changed that
to once a day, sent out notice, and now I've
got an eviction notice. Was given five days, he extended
to a month. And now we're running out of water

(01:31:17):
because he's not keeping.

Speaker 7 (01:31:19):
It twice a day.

Speaker 10 (01:31:20):
He would be able, it would be able to subtain us.
There's fourteen units here and he's only doing it once
a day and giving this one case per week a
bottle of water. I called Monday, said I'm run out
of bottle of water because we ran out of water.
And I got to use the bottle of water for

(01:31:41):
drinking and cooking. When I was talking to the consultant
yesterday that he said, do not use the water. I
thought about a shower, No, he said flush only. I
was talking to the landlord's grandfather, told him about guess
they don't believe it. He said, make sure you stand outside.

Speaker 9 (01:32:03):
For the explosion. Really, Like, don't you care?

Speaker 10 (01:32:09):
I cried to the landlord on Monday, like, please please
get this just full up twice a day so we
can have water. I can can wake up in the
morning and be able to flush twice. I can't go
on my backyard and a half to use the bathroom
because I be churched years ago.

Speaker 9 (01:32:28):
I could, no.

Speaker 10 (01:32:29):
Problem, Now I can't. I don't want that stink in
the bathroom.

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
Yeah, fair enough, I don't. So for starters, the landlord
and this not believing stuff, it's a silly place to start. Look,
so is the thought that you need to get this
sample tested to prove that there's liability, whether be the
company that injected the gas and or for the landlord
who rectify it on his or her time.

Speaker 9 (01:32:55):
Right and I given.

Speaker 10 (01:32:56):
I went to the tenants association, give him my pay
fellow at the repair report. Given that he still ignored it,
give me a viction. Went to the Tennis association. They
give me some documents. I can't even read it unless
I'm a lawyer. I don't even know the meaning of
some of the words. So I'm doing is just getting

(01:33:18):
my head hit and hit like I can't take it
no more. I don't know what to do. This is
bigger than what I am.

Speaker 2 (01:33:27):
Geneva, I can probably help you get a tested. So
there's a couple of laboratories that I'm familiar with. One
is close by Churchill Park and it's called Bureau Veritas
and they are Environmental Services laboratory, and I think they
have a wide, sweet of comprehensive suite of testing that
they can do. There's another lab here in town. I
can't remember where it is, but it's a gat ag

(01:33:51):
a t A gat laboratories. Okay, So call to of
those outfits and see if they can do with the
tests that you need done. Because if if you are
armed with proof of the gas being present in the water,
then there's going to be very little wiggle room available
to either of the company that pumped it in and
or the landlord of the facility itself. So call those two.

(01:34:12):
I don't have the telephone numbers off the top of
my head. Butt just a very quick Google search of both.
You'll get a phone number right away, so give that
a show.

Speaker 8 (01:34:20):
I've got an all slip phone.

Speaker 10 (01:34:22):
I'm not high tech.

Speaker 2 (01:34:22):
Okay, hold on, I'll get your number. I'll get your number.
Hold on.

Speaker 10 (01:34:26):
But now, yesterday I went and washed and you can
smell gas in my washer.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
I believe it. Okay, let's see here. Okay, you got
a pen of paper. Yes, my love, Bureau Veritas. The
number seven five to four seven zero two zero.

Speaker 10 (01:34:45):
Three, zero two zero three A.

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
Goad is seven two six seven ninety three.

Speaker 10 (01:34:53):
Five ninety three forty five. My love toank you so much,
so much, because I mean, I can't afford two hundred dollars.
Consultants said it party costs around two hundred. I shouldn't
be doing this, lanmore should be doing Aliday.

Speaker 2 (01:35:10):
I agree. So let me know how you make out.

Speaker 10 (01:35:14):
I definitely will. Okay, good luck to me, but thank
you tremendously my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:35:19):
Take care nice, have a nice day you too. Bye bye. Yeah,
that's ridiculous. Let's keep going. Let's go to light before
good morning round d Dreul. You're on the air.

Speaker 3 (01:35:28):
Good morning, Patty, and thank you for taking my calls.
It's a little over a year now since we celebrated
one hundred years at the VOWR Radio and we had
a big concerts back in the July of last year
and it went over very very well. It's a great
fundraiser and we have another one on schedule now and

(01:35:51):
it's coming up next Saturday, which is not this Saturday
coming but the following Saturday, September thirteenth at Holy Heart.
It's a cell of the seventies. It's going to be
a great concert for concert goers in Saint John's and areas,
so we're hoping for some great support there. It's a
big fundraiser for us. As you know, we're all total

(01:36:13):
volunteer down that station, and so we look forward to
getting our tickets sold for that concert.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
Tell us a bit more about her. Someone sent me
a note regarding the concert yesterday. I gave it a
little pump of the tires, but you go ahead and
give it another one run.

Speaker 8 (01:36:27):
Well, I tell you.

Speaker 3 (01:36:28):
We have a fine lineup of musicians, Mick Davis, Jackie
Sullivan and Carol Pilgrim, Justin Fancy, Peter Hallie Brothers, Hysterio,
Dana Parsons, We have Kelsey arsenols Michael Bercy, David chap
and Annabeth Lovees from Wesley United Church as well as
christa chaplain. And we have the cast of Arts and Aging.

(01:36:50):
They're are a group that go out of our seniors'
homes and they present a play, a play with regard
to what goes on inside the doors of vow R
and it's very interesting and they're going to be they're
going to be on stage with a couple of skits
and it's going to be pretty interesting for the for

(01:37:11):
the people that are in attendance at the concert because
there's a lot of things go on behind the scenes
down at radio station VLab. You are especially the telephone
calls that we receive and the nights emails and letters.

Speaker 2 (01:37:23):
And you have a pretty lovely host too, Patrina Bromley
of course from Broadway Fame. Uh. Just you know, they
give you a little additional shout out for some of
the performers. Brothers in stereo, you your two sons and
your nephew, and then of course the house band includes
your son, Chris Paul Kinsman Boomer Stamp, Sandy Morris, Glenn Parsons,
Joe Tompkins. So it's a pretty all star lineup.

Speaker 3 (01:37:43):
It's it's a great lineup.

Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
And then all of.

Speaker 3 (01:37:45):
These musicians, as you know, they're seasoned in the province
and do very well on stage, and so we're looking
forward to this big concert. And I thank you Patty
for taking the time. I know you have a lot
of important calls coming in there, and so I just
wanted to pass on the word. Tickets are available at
Holy Hearts Theater out there in Bonaventure Avenue. The box

(01:38:06):
office is open now daily, I think from Tuesday to
Saturday at twelve noon. So we look forward to seeing
you the listening audience out on September thirteenth, is sound
a Saturday nights.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
Yes, sir, begins at eight pm. The box office telephone
number if you need it, it's seven oh nine five
seven nine forty four twenty four in the Website's an
easy one. Holyheart Theater dot Com.

Speaker 3 (01:38:30):
Good luck with it, ron Thank you Patty for a call.

Speaker 2 (01:38:33):
My pleasure, sir, stay in touch all right, Bye bye,
Ronald Drew with bow R. That sounds a good great
night out. Let's see here, let's take a break, coming
come back. We're going to speak with the candidates who
sees their election signs being removed. Don't go away. Welcome
back to the show. Let's go to Lenuver six, Sygamore
to Wendy Squires and it's running for council down to
tor Bay. Wendy, you're on the air.

Speaker 12 (01:38:55):
Oh hi, Patty, thank you, it's actually Portugal cold.

Speaker 2 (01:38:58):
Thanks Philip, pardon me, portal cops save Phillips.

Speaker 12 (01:39:00):
Thank you. So we put up signs all weekend and
I believe it might have been Monday evening or overnight Monday, sorry,
in the early morning that twenty of my signs were taken.
It was very disheartening, but you know, it didn't get
me down, maybe for a little bit for a minute,

(01:39:22):
but now I'm pushing even forward to you know, play
through this. And I don't know who it is, might
never know, don't know what they have against me, but
here I am. Yeah, I'm going to run for council
and try to speak up four people. As you will
remember that it was me who spoke up against bus

(01:39:45):
stop safety. So about bus stop stafty.

Speaker 2 (01:39:47):
Oh yeah, fair enough, Wendy. So you seriously have no
inkling as to who might be behind this.

Speaker 12 (01:39:54):
No, no, I would only hope it's not anything to
do with the actual candidate, maybe a supporter of theirs,
maybe somebody totally random that has a beef with me.
I don't know of any that I have myself, because
other signs were not taken. It was only mine. Now,
I do understand that it does happen sometimes at elections,

(01:40:16):
maybe a full row taken or four or five of somebody's.
But twenty Patty, that was a lot of work for
somebody to do that. They had to have had, you know,
a pick up with a driver and a passenger to
toss them in and go fast, or do it under
the cover of darkness. You know, even when we put

(01:40:36):
them out. It took us two different sittings, two different
days to put them out and in and out of
the car.

Speaker 8 (01:40:46):
So a lot of work.

Speaker 12 (01:40:48):
More than one person.

Speaker 2 (01:40:49):
Did this, I say, probably, And I mean even if
someone has some sort of beef with you, to use
your word, it's such a juvenile way to go about it,
you know, just go around taking down election signs. I
don't know why people, I don't know how people have
that much time on their hands to devote it to
something as foolish as that.

Speaker 12 (01:41:10):
Right in the meantime, thanks to the wonderful support of
our community. Somebody did find them tossed in the trees
near a pond trailway and they called me message me.
So they have been recovered and over the coming days
they will be put back. So that person or people
did not get me down. It's only making me push

(01:41:32):
stronger to go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
So just for clarification, someone got in touch with you
and tell you where the signs were. Is that what
you just said.

Speaker 12 (01:41:40):
They found them when they were walking their dog or
with their children. I think Okay, Yeah, they were on
the side of the like and covered up with bows
in the trees.

Speaker 2 (01:41:50):
Again, I wish I had that kind of time on
my hands, I know, I.

Speaker 12 (01:41:55):
Know, so thanks to the people. Maybe we cried a
lot on Facebook about it, maybe people were more aware.
But designs are pink, so they were very visible in
the trees for him walking by, and I was so
relieved to get those back and we will put them
out shortly.

Speaker 2 (01:42:11):
Okay, now that we have the election signs are one thing,
and I'm sorry it happened, but I'm glad to have
it back. You give us a top of your list
priority if you are lucky enough to be voted in
as a counselor well, Patty.

Speaker 12 (01:42:22):
I am new, so I have a lot to learn,
and my willingness to learn is there. I don't have
a platform per se, because I want the people to
tell me what my platform is. I want to hear
their issues so that I can speak on their behalf.
I do certainly have main topics, like you know, transparency
and accountability of things that have gone by, you know,

(01:42:43):
in the council. I do want to be a voice
for people, and I will get back to them and
let them know if we're working on something together. I
will update them and not leave them hanging. So it's
and this is something I can't do, I will let
them know. I will pass them on to the appropriate
people and keep them up to date. I don't have

(01:43:04):
an agenda of my own like many in the past,
you know, whatever the case may be. There's nothing that
I'm trying to accomplish for myself personally, so and I
want to dig in further to anything like that that
is going on with any sort of conflict of interests,
dig into some of the finances, and you know, just

(01:43:25):
be there as an honest person where the people can
use me to get to counsel and have their voice heard.

Speaker 2 (01:43:36):
Well. And that's a good thing.

Speaker 13 (01:43:37):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:43:37):
We hear complaints about elected officials, whether it be at
the municipal, provincial, or federal level. They get in office
and all of a sudden they are impossible to connect
with them. That's the furthest thing from a good thing.
I appreciate the time, Wendy. Good luck with it out there.

Speaker 12 (01:43:51):
Thank you, take care of you too.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
Bye bye. All right, Dave, So am I Where am
I going here? Line of one? Or do you want
to get to the news Line of one? Sure, let's
got a line one? Call it? Are you around the air?

Speaker 7 (01:44:02):
Hi? Patty? How are you this morning?

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
Great today? How about you?

Speaker 7 (01:44:06):
Good?

Speaker 3 (01:44:07):
Uh?

Speaker 7 (01:44:07):
Patty? I called you there a lot ago on the
MoU and the power purchase agreement, And basically I was
talking about the power person disagreement, saying that hydro Quebec
would pay six cents for the power, but the Newfoundland
would only get four cents of that six cents. And

(01:44:28):
at the time, you see in kind of skeptical about
what I was saying, and you indicate that you were
going to check it out. So I was wondering if
you did Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
The response I got is that the pathway to five
point nine sense is exactly that.

Speaker 7 (01:44:47):
In the MoU. The MoU says that Hydro Quebec will
pay six cents for the power, Land would only get
four sense for that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:02):
And where do you see the number?

Speaker 7 (01:45:04):
And it's outside the m o U. It's not in
the m o U. It's because of the way Churchill
Fall is structured. Such Churchill five is owned by cfl
CO and cfl CO only has two shareholders. Hydrick Quebec
owns one third and new Flann Hydro owns two thirds,

(01:45:30):
and the cfl CO pays out all of its profits
to its two shareholders. Hydri KBC owns one third, so
they get one third of the profits, and Hydro convect
Loo from Hydro is two thirds, so they get two
thirds of the profit. It's when Hydro Combec pays dfl

(01:45:50):
CO big sense the power that's our profit, the cfl CO.
So then cfl CO turns around, hey out that profit.
Who's too sharehold So Hydro Quebec gets one third of
the ticket things which is two to.

Speaker 2 (01:46:09):
Use that logic. To use that logic would say that
the zero point two CeNSE that hydro Quebec pays today
we actually only get two thirds of it, which is
just not the case. So the pathway to five point
nine is that Now I see people throwing around two
point five, and I've variety other numbers that I can't
find anywhere, Like, I don't know where they come up
with it, but I asked this very specific question, and

(01:46:30):
the five point nine cents is indeed five point nine cents,
and the pathway too. It's not immediate, but that's the pathway. Yeah,
And it does come to five point nine cents, not
two thirds of.

Speaker 7 (01:46:39):
It, it's two thirds, and the one third is not
in the MU.

Speaker 8 (01:46:46):
It is THEU about it.

Speaker 2 (01:46:48):
The equity stake is well understood, and the equity stake
doesn't change. It'll be the same equity stake at gal
and in twenty forty one, the equity stake would remain
exactly the same. It's simply an opportunity to renegotiate price.

Speaker 7 (01:47:00):
Yes, but if hyder Quebec pays cfl Co six cents
for the power and and cfl CO pays out its profits,
that's all profits the cfl call that's six cents because
there's no cost. So CFL Co then turns around and
pays out its profits. There was two shareholders. Hyder Quebec

(01:47:25):
gets two cents back because they own one third of
cfl CO.

Speaker 2 (01:47:30):
I heard what you say.

Speaker 7 (01:47:33):
Yeah, well the hard Quebec and Hyder Quebec and Michael
Saba are saying that they're getting the power for things.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
I haven't seen Michael say.

Speaker 7 (01:47:47):
I know there's a lot of bluster from politicians in that,
but I don't think if they all of them would
be that bowld to say that, because you know, are
paying six cents for the power toy costume forcing, and
that's why it's only costume force. It is the Cacadri Quebec.
Basically what happens is hardrickbec pay if outcome.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
Yeah, I've already heard you say that.

Speaker 7 (01:48:12):
Yeah, it gets so they it's only cost and forcing
and Luke Man gets forcing. And I know if I'm
totally out the lunch, then I wish is gonna be
tell me, but I can't figure out any other way
this would work.

Speaker 2 (01:48:30):
I asked the very specific question that you referenced last
time and today, and I just told you what I
was told. I don't have much more to offer, So.

Speaker 7 (01:48:41):
You don't know how I do.

Speaker 2 (01:48:46):
So do you know that you're not gonna say it again?

Speaker 7 (01:48:49):
Are okay? Thanks for your time, no problem.

Speaker 2 (01:48:56):
All the best. All right, let's get a break for
the news. We'll make it back. We'll speak with you
the Tim Power Show.

Speaker 1 (01:49:03):
Join the Conversation weekday afternoons at four pm on your VOCM.

Speaker 2 (01:49:08):
Welcome back to the program. Let's go to line number two.
Say good morning to Ivy Highley, running for the mayor
of the City of Saint John's joins us on line
number two. Good morning, ip or on the air, Good
morning Patty. How are you doing great? How about you great?

Speaker 5 (01:49:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (01:49:22):
I thought I would call in because I wanted to
talk about approval rates of residential units today, but I
also wanted to It's the first time actually calling in
since I announced my campaign.

Speaker 2 (01:49:32):
So welcome to the program. Where do you want to
start with the housing approvals?

Speaker 14 (01:49:37):
Well, what I wanted to talk about is it has
to do with misleading the market in the public, and
what it is is I'm very interested in development and
residential units because we are in a housing crisis. We're
short on houses and billing units. So you know, when
I follow a lot of the other candidates as well
as sitting councilors and mayors and deputy mayors. Because I

(01:49:59):
want to see what's happening in our city. I'm very
interested in it. And I noticed they posted that over
two thousand new housing units in twenty twenty four alone
have been approved by the City of Saint John's and
I was excited. Two thousand new housing units being approved
last year is a massive number. But I was shocked

(01:50:19):
because I can't see that happening in our city, in
my you know, around me.

Speaker 5 (01:50:25):
Now, I know.

Speaker 14 (01:50:25):
Approvals doesn't equal builds, but still I thought that number
was pretty high. So I did a bit of digging
and I a tipped it and what I was provided
with was not two thousand new housing units. It was
five hundred and eighty six. So my concerns are really
with the credibilility of our council, you know, and what

(01:50:49):
they're putting out there, and the control of what they're
putting out there with the numbers, because I can't find
the fourteen hundred plus other units that were approved through
my ATIP.

Speaker 2 (01:50:57):
Just quick question, because I don't have the a tip
in front of me. So when if there's an approval.
Look that goes out the door. Is it recorded as
the number of units? Like if I approve a subdivision
of twenty five single detach homes and it's twenty five units.
If I approve an apartment building of sixty units, is
get reported at sixty units or get reported as one
housing approval?

Speaker 14 (01:51:19):
Well, and that's kind of I was on your wavelength
when I went through all the council meetings from twenty
twenty four, and that's why I decided to a tip
it because I couldn't get close to two thousand, thinking
maybe it's a bunch of apartment buildings and I don't
see the numbers. But in my A tip, I was
very clear asking for housing units approved, including how many

(01:51:39):
units in each building, and I was actually able to
see in my A tip, I can send it to
anyone who wants it at I say, email info at
Ibhanley dot com. You can very clearly see how many
units are in each approval. And you know, of those
five hundred and eighty six I was provided by with
the A tip, one hundred and eleven of those were

(01:52:02):
change of occupancy or renovations. Only four hundred and seventy
five were actually new construction permits. So you know, I'm
still trying to find the other fourteen hundred plus. I'm
sure there has to be something somewhere of it. But
what I'm what I wanted to call about obviously the
fact that we're running an election. But you know, how

(01:52:23):
can this be fixed, Patty? How can we make sure
that the information being given by council members and being
shared by our mayor on their social media feeds is correct?
And I really think that that needs to be looked
at in a management perspective at the city.

Speaker 8 (01:52:40):
We need we need to.

Speaker 14 (01:52:41):
Control the information coming out, and if they are going
to give information, they need to have back it up.
You can't just give numbers like over two thousand have
been approved. But your a tip program is not providing.

Speaker 2 (01:52:51):
That fair enough. I mean, I'm I try to lean
in on the most accurate information I can put my
hands on. I didn't take the time or opportunity to
a tip this particular stuff, but I very quickly pressed
my cough button to send you an email requests that
you send me that document so I can have a
look at it and speak to it as well.

Speaker 14 (01:53:10):
Yeah, that would be excellent, because you know, there is
a way to fix this problem. I'm not looking to
point fingers. I'm looking to manage. And I'm a business owner.
I've opened multiple businesses in my life, and I absolutely
love management and control and accountability. It's one thing I've
run my whole life on. And there is a way
to fix this problem. If this information is correct and

(01:53:33):
right now, I have to say, with the information I've
been given, I will send.

Speaker 9 (01:53:36):
It to you through the A tip.

Speaker 10 (01:53:37):
It is incorrect, but you.

Speaker 14 (01:53:40):
Know, if we had things like public housing dashboard as
part of the online permitting system. I know they're trying
to get one done. It says they're two point five
years out of doing this with the development fund that
they were given by the Feds. But you know, is
that going to show approval starts in completion counts so

(01:54:01):
that the public can no, I don't know. I have
a tip that as well, but I haven't received it.
But I do believe that the city, you know, they
will provide me with the A tips we all asked
for before the election started, before the end of the election,
I do believe the city will work in good faith
and provide the rest of the information we've provided on
that but we can't fix the problem, you know, just

(01:54:23):
working with counsel to be sure that they've been briefed
for press releases and show social medis because the last
thing we want is the public having incorrect information on
social media from elected officials.

Speaker 2 (01:54:36):
Yeah, fair enough, And so when I get my hands
on that particular document, there's no problem for me to
get an answer from, whether the be the challenger, the mayor,
Danny Breen and or Ron Elsworth who generally speaks to
these housing related approval matters. So you send me what
you've gotten off follow up.

Speaker 9 (01:54:53):
That's excellent.

Speaker 14 (01:54:54):
Yeah, I'll send you the social media post as well
as the a tip and the results of the ATIP.
That's excellent, Patty, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:55:00):
I appreciate that, and I will absolutely do what I
can to get the accurate numbers out there, because I mean,
I live here and I know the issue regarding whether
it be rental vacancies and the number of houses that
we need to build. Even when we were told that,
you know, based on the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation,
that we had to build what was it, sixty six
thousand in the next six years, So I mean, of
course that was unrealistic. John, I would actually boil it

(01:55:21):
back down to specific regions and the required number of
houses or the forecast and required number of houses, and
it was nowhere near those big numbers. But I will
chase this because I'm actually really curious about it now.

Speaker 14 (01:55:33):
Yeah, and you know, you don't want to mask how
far behind the city is because we need development. Without this,
we're not going to have the housing units. And all
I've been meeting with so many community organizations that are
trying to combat the house helmlessness and addiction crisis we're facing,
and their number one thing is a roof over people's heads.

(01:55:54):
If you don't have a roof, how are you even
able to provide people the tools to improve on these
social issues. And that's why I'm so focused on development
so that we can help our residents of the city
of John's.

Speaker 2 (01:56:09):
Yeah, fair enough. And it just brings me to another
point is that not every housing unit is created equal.
I mean, there's a distinct difference between affordable housing and otherwise.
There's a distinct difference even inside the envelope of affordable housing.
Because it's one thing for seniors, someone who requires additional
wraparound supports, whether it be mental health or addictions or
someone with a disability. So we sometimes lump everything into

(01:56:31):
the same trough when it's not that and so we
have to be I have to be careful. I try
to be mindful of talking to specifics as opposed to
just the generalities of housing.

Speaker 14 (01:56:42):
Oh one percent. And you know, I'm meeting actually with
tenants of affordable units this week on Friday evening.

Speaker 9 (01:56:50):
I have a big meeting.

Speaker 14 (01:56:51):
There with them. We want to talk about the mismanagement
of the current resident affordable units owned by the City
of Saint John's. Now they have stated they're not building anymore.
I hope we can change that. I truly do.

Speaker 9 (01:57:04):
I want to advocate for it.

Speaker 14 (01:57:06):
Affordable units are needed, but the management of the current
affordable units needs to be reviewed.

Speaker 2 (01:57:12):
No question. Ivy. I wish you good luck on the
hustings and thank you for your time.

Speaker 14 (01:57:17):
Thank you, We'll be talking again.

Speaker 2 (01:57:18):
Okay sounds good bye bye. I'll be having you run
for the mayor town City Saint John's. The second final
break of the morning, don't go away, welcome back. Let's
go to line umber four. Second morning to the PC
Member for Terror and Always Deputy House Leader that's Lloyd parent,
Lloyd around the air.

Speaker 5 (01:57:34):
Lloyd.

Speaker 8 (01:57:35):
Yeah you got me there, I got you.

Speaker 2 (01:57:36):
Now you're on the air.

Speaker 8 (01:57:37):
How are you doing, buddy?

Speaker 2 (01:57:38):
Excellent today? How about you?

Speaker 8 (01:57:40):
Good?

Speaker 4 (01:57:40):
Thanks?

Speaker 2 (01:57:41):
Good?

Speaker 13 (01:57:41):
But I just wanted to call in today to talk
about you know, local benefits, community benefits. You know, we're
ten years in now to the Liberal government and there's
still been no announcement on any community community benefits agreements.
I know a lot of people question what that means.
But in twenty nineteen we brought a resolution to the
House of Assembly clearly said that we put New Flanders
and or Its first when it came to all natural

(01:58:03):
resource and public projects, public infrastructure. So unanimously approved one
hundred percent. All the Liberals agreed with it, and there
was mandate letters given to the ministers several different ministers
over the last six years, and still nothing on it.

Speaker 8 (01:58:18):
And I guess the.

Speaker 13 (01:58:19):
Big question is what does that mean. Well, it means
that we're still shipping jobs outside of Newfoudland and Labrador
for work that's being carried out here. And I mean
you don't have to look any further than the hospital
and Grand Falls, the mental health facility, the long term
care facilities, Marathon Gold, all of these constructions that's happened

(01:58:40):
have left people out. We've had people in from outside
and it's simply not acceptable. Now we're moving forward and
we've got no idea what BEATA in order is going
to look like when it comes to local people working.
And it's not just Beta ords. So we talked about
DMU and Churchill Falls and you know, they've made it
sound like there's all of these jobs associated with disagreement,

(01:59:02):
and disagreement is packaged up into one thing. And the
reality is is that the Church of Falls one, Church
of Falls two, the transmission line from Church of Falls
to labor Or West, the transmission line to the Quebect border,
none of that comes under the agreement that was made
for Muskrat Falls. So we have billions, not millions, billions

(01:59:24):
of dollars of work. I mean, if you can carry
on and include the upgrades that are required in Beta Spirity,
upgrades that are required in Holy Rood, it amounts to
billions of dollars of work. And we don't know that
Newfoundlanders and Laboratorians are even going to be a priority.
And it's long pass due. You know, our stance and
Tony wakem our leader has been very firm on this,

(01:59:45):
and as a matter of fact, he's made an announcement
that all natural resource projects and public infrastructure contracts in
the province value at more than half a million dollars
will require community benefits agreement and patty. Those agreements should
be done upfront so businesses understand what's required to come
here and go to work, and so we can put
our people to work first. And it's long, long overdue.

Speaker 2 (02:00:09):
A couple of things. So benefits agreements and community benefits
are inherently linked, but they're kind of two different things,
we're told. And whether or not this is true, I'll
leave it up for history to tell. The tale. Is
the benefits agreement for jobs inside the MoU and that's
two transmission projects Upper Churchill two or the expansion whatever
and gall Island, same as it would have been for

(02:00:30):
Muskrat and I think we adhere to it pretty well.
I'm not so sure we hit one hundred percent target,
but qualified people from Labrador first, then the island, then
the rest of the country, then the rest of the world.
Is that not your understanding with If we just stick
with the MoU for a second, it's.

Speaker 13 (02:00:44):
Absolutely not my understanding. My understanding is that it's only
the Goal Island pro project that comes under the previous
MoU or sorry, previous Benefits agreement for Muskrat, and that
was a part of it when it was done. It
had nothing to do with the expansion of Church of Falls.
It had nothing to do with mission lines and the
transmission line that came across the province.

Speaker 8 (02:01:03):
Certainly Team you know.

Speaker 13 (02:01:04):
To lil and all that came under that agreement. But
this is a total separate entity that's going in the
opposite direction and it is not part of the MoU
does not stipulate any of that. Those questions were asked
back in January. We couldn't get an answer from Haydro
at the time. You know, as a matter of fact,
they came in with the information that was over ten
years old and said there was ten million man hours. Patty,

(02:01:25):
That's that's simply one of the silliest things I've ever heard.
I mean, it was fifty million man hours to build Muskrat.
This project is substantially bigger, and they're saying there's only
ten million man hours. They don't have a grip on
what it's going to be and you know, as part
of my concern, but my understanding, certainly from my conversations
with the newfoland level or building trades with Newfoundland Levet

(02:01:48):
or Hadro and questions that were asked in house assembly,
is that while the gall all and portion of MoU
comes under the previous agreement, the rest of it does.

Speaker 2 (02:01:56):
Not fair enough. But inside the lines we will own
and operate and build I assume we can attach our
own benefits agreement to that we don't have to deal
with or have Hydro Quebec involved in that at all.

Speaker 13 (02:02:10):
Right, fair Byel Patty. But we had that same ability
on the projects that I listed before. Yet we had
sheet metal workers from Quebec, We've had people from the Runs,
We've got people all across Canada. And I'm not saying
that there isn't going to come a time when we
don't need to bring workers in here, whether it be
on travel cards to work full.

Speaker 11 (02:02:26):
Time or whatever.

Speaker 13 (02:02:27):
But we should not have new Foinlanders and laboratory and
sitting on their hands who are qualified to do the
work on public projects or natural resource projects, while companies
like Marco and other companies are bringing people in here
on these three p's and other public projects and certain
natural resource projects because they think they can get cheaper.
And Patty, I don't know how the math is difficult.

(02:02:48):
One hundred dollars If it's one hundred dollars an hour
to pay someone from the mainland to come here and work,
and it cost one hundred and ten dollars an hour
to get a new Finlander to work, well, one hundred
and ten dollars is going back into our coffers, or
one hundred dollars is leading the province. And it's not
just about that. It's about prioritizing the people that pay taxes,
that live here. And Patty, you know the biggest thing

(02:03:09):
I always say, and we've been saying it as a
party for a long time. Two serious issues in this
province have always been geography and population. And the only
way that we're going to build their population is to
ensure that the jobs are here and people can stay
here and work. Is pretty simple, man.

Speaker 2 (02:03:24):
Yeah, I'll just ask you one question that I had
some complexity tool. Look, Number one, I live here, my
children live here, my family lives here. I want people
from here to get jobs full stop. Then you talk
about what we'll call the general contractor, whether it be
S and C lavelin, which is probably not a great
choice because there's a benefits agreement very much different than
building a hospital or penitentiary or whatever the case may be.

(02:03:47):
Some of the biggest contractors they also own in full
or in part groups that would be known as subcontractors.
Some would be based in Nova Scotia, some might be
based in Monkton, some might be based here, some might
be based in Boston. So how do we have it
enshrined in contractual relations that they must use contractors from
here versus the companies that they either owned some of

(02:04:09):
or all of that we would call some contractors. That's
a tricky piece of business.

Speaker 13 (02:04:13):
Yeah, it sounds tricky, but here's here's part of what
we can do is that we can prioritize how we
do it. So, for example, marathon goal, let's just say
for ourgument's sake, it's a ninety percent requirement for local content. Well,
that local content should be broken down into every subcontract.
So then a contractor, you know, has the ability to
utilize ten percent from away ninety percent when they're hard

(02:04:34):
and so it instead they put it over the whole
project and they go out and they hire the cheapest
labor they can here in the province, and they bring
your own people in and our own skilled people. Here's
the problem. You know, we need to prioritize local skilled
trades people, you know, local companies and opportunities for apprentices,
women and general verse individuals and indigenous peoples. And if

(02:04:55):
we don't, then we will lose our skill set. So
we sit here and we brag our ability to build
oil rigs or wind farms or what. And that's another
big one. I mean, there's no benefits agreement for any
of these wind discussions, and here we are four years
into it. It should be one of the first things
that gets on the table. It should be one of
the very first things that's looked after, because then we
know where we stand and whether or not a project

(02:05:16):
is going to go forward. We can ramp up in schools,
educate young people sort are ready to go into the workforce.
It's just we always put the character before the horse.

Speaker 2 (02:05:27):
I say this all the time. You know, benefits agreements,
but we're talking about things that produce a royalty, whether
it be in minerals or oil, or in gas or
in hydro. Those types of things. That's all fine and dandy,
that's a good thing for the government offers, but there's
nothing quite like filling up my pockets, not the government's pockets,
that has a bigger economic impact, whether it be reliance
on services or not. So there's an endless argument to

(02:05:50):
be made for jobs are much bigger deal than royalties.

Speaker 4 (02:05:55):
Patty.

Speaker 13 (02:05:55):
Listen this Tony Wakem has said. There's lots of times
and there's no state that he makes that I'm behind
more than this one. We need more people paying less taxes,
not less people paying more taxes. You know, we talk
about right now seven hundred and fifty million dollars prison
that's going to get built. We haven't heard one thing
on a local benefits agreement. And in twenty nineteen it

(02:06:16):
was supported one hundred percent by this local government and
every single ministered us in there. And six years later
they still haven't gotten it done. And the reality is
is that we bleed our workforce away, we bleed our
population away because the long term sustainable work isn't here,
and even worse, the short term megaproject work is slipping
away now. And if we look at what's going to
happen in Church of Falls.

Speaker 8 (02:06:38):
It's a big deal.

Speaker 13 (02:06:39):
It needs to happen. It needs to be a serious
priority for any government.

Speaker 5 (02:06:42):
Going forward here.

Speaker 2 (02:06:42):
Yeah, and we all have to stop leaning on megaprojects
as the panacea because it's not.

Speaker 3 (02:06:48):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (02:06:48):
Push it your time, Lloyd, you've had the last word.

Speaker 13 (02:06:50):
All right, you take care of Patty takes for taking Lloyd.

Speaker 2 (02:06:53):
Powered pcmember tearing up a good show today, Big thanks
to all hands, and we will indeed pick up this
conversation again tomorrow morning, right here on and big Land
of f m's open Line on behalf of the producer
David Williams. I'm your host, Patty Daily. Have yourself a safe, fun,
happy day. We'll talk in the morning. Bye bye

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