February 16, 2024 • 29 mins
Patriots.com’s Matt Smith hosts a roundtable with Fred Kirsch, Paul Perillo and Mike Dussault breaking down episodes one and two of Apple TV's, The Dynasty: New England Patriots. In these episodes Patriots owner Robert Kraft, head coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Tom Brady help transform the Patriots from perennial underachiever to a championship organization. The 10-part documentary event, 'The Dynasty: New England Patriots' is streaming now, exclusively on Apple TV Plus.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:04):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to the inaugural episode of Patriots Dynasty doc Recap
Matt Smith alongside Fred Kirsh, Paul Prillo, Mike Doss, where
our job here is to do a wrap up show
of the Dynasty documentary. The ten part documentary event The
Dynasty New England Patriots is streaming now exclusively on Apple
(00:30):
TV Plus. The first two episodes dropped on Friday, Episodes
one and two, and so we're here to recap that.
The schedule of this podcast will be as such, we
will drop a new Dynasty wrap up show every Friday
for the next five weeks. So let's get to it.
Episodes one and two. I'm going to start with you, Fred,
what were you most impressed with in episode one?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, I mean, first of all, the opening of the episode.
It's sort of like if you're at an musico and
there's an orchestra pit. The first thing they play is
the overture, and if you listen closely and remember what
you heard, you're gonna hear little pieces of everything that
you hear after that in that overture and I think
(01:14):
that's what they were giving us with that opening, is
you saw all the little pieces of the stories of
the dynasty in that opening. And I think they did
a great job. Like I had to watch it a
couple times, like, oh, you know, they're gonna talk about that,
They're gonna talk about that. And I think that that
opening in caps, you know, is gonna you know, foreshadow
(01:35):
everything that we're gonna see going forward. It was a
great hook.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Yeah right, yeah, I totally agree. I thought it really
got you in it. And you know, for for us
that you know, we've we've all been around through a
lot of these you know, for the whole entirety of
the dynasty, and it brought you right back, you know,
and you said, Okay, let's get my popcorn, let's sit down,
let's get ready. I want to relive this. And I
thought it did a great job. Pictures did a great
(02:01):
job too. I mean, there was some great sound bites
that they had mixed in the imidola. One I thought
was great foreshadowing for something that's coming down when you know,
the one that's got a lot of play leaning into
the documentary, you know about playing for Bill, but I
mean working for Bill and playing for Tom. Yeah, I
just thought it did a great job of setting the scene.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It really did.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I mean, that's that's the crazy thing, is you realize.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
I mean when in hindsight you forget how long this
run was and how many huge storylines there were for
twenty years, you know, in and out, And I thought
that that part has set a great tone for me.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I just I loved a lot of the new.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Stuff, the behind the scenes stuff, the you guys will
make fun of me, But this stuck out to me.
This practice footage of Brady wearing a helmet I've never
seen him wear before. And I'm a nerd about that, sure,
That's how I am.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
People.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
You know, he had to have a string in his practice,
but he had the Peyton Milling helmet on it, and
I'm like, what is going on? I've never seen this
before in my life. But those are you know, the
things that that are just so cool. And you know,
just some of the footage where it's just simple b
roll and it's these guys hanging out and it's you know,
future Hall of Famers in the midst of this run
starting to put things together.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I just you know that that wow, we're sitting here
with our senior executive producer, Matt Smith. Kudos to him
because one of the things I think this documentary is
is a testament to film everything, even if you're not
going to use it right away or you may never
use it. Film everything. Because there's stuff in this documentary
that I've never seen before. And thank god we filmed
(03:22):
it so right.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
And for Fred and I to say it's stuff that
we've never seen before. We were working here through the
entirety of this and there was stuff that we've never
seen before.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Now Matt probably you know, saw a little bit more,
you know, he was part of you know, the cruise
and whatnot. But to see pictures of practice at like
you know, the old stadium at rent them Staates was
like cool, Like I've you know, we used to get
like five minute windows, Mike, just like we do now.
Half the time we didn't go because it was such
(03:50):
a pain to get there, you know, like just let
me know who died, As Eddie Duckworth used to say,
you know, I don't need to know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, no, I don't. But behind the scene in the
team meetings, just unbelievable stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No one of the things that I was a big
fan of. And maybe that's to Fred's point. Maybe I'm
prejudiced because I've seen a lot of the footage. I
just thought the interviews, by and large, most of them
were tremendously insightful, and I have some favorites, quite honestly, Paul,
you and I did a podcast with Scott Pioli within
the last four or five months. Yeah, Scott comes off
(04:25):
really really well, and I think keeps the thread.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
It's a good storytelling. He's a really good story He
was seasoned back then because he comes from a pr
background right before he came to the Patriots. I mean,
he he knows how to speak. He's very articulate, not
a lot of ums and your nose and all that.
And like you said, Paul, he tells a good story, right.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And it's one thing to have great information and great anecdotes,
but to deliver them in a way like the narcotic
line to me is just fantastic.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
That's and the perspective that I think he brings to
that he's away from it now, so maybe he can
see things little bit differently than when he was right
in the trenches. And I think he realizes, and he
said this to us at one point in time, but
I think he realizes. She said, wonder if we handled
that the right way? Did we do what we really
needed to do? But they were just so consumed by winning,
(05:14):
and the winning became a narcotic As Paul said, that
was really powerful.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And by the way, we're assuming everybody who's watching this
has watched the first two episodes, so if you haven't
turn it off, go to Apple TV Plus and watch them,
because we're going to give you spoilers. Yeah, no question
about it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We are going to ruin everything right because we don't
know how this has ended, right. And the other two
interviews that I just wanted to that really were tremendous
to me. And they were writing character where Tyla and
Lauria Maloy very good friends, tremendous players during this team,
but their color and their you know, just the way
(05:53):
they spoke, the looseness that they spoke, and the way
that they described things. I thought Patriot fans will really
enjoy hearing them, how they talked and how they described
what was going on.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, they were the gatekeepers of the old Patriots. I mean,
those were the guys from the nineties that were the
holdovers that you know, were the leaders of that team.
And I think, you know, just their perspective on Brady
coming in. I mean, my favorite part of you know,
Brady coming in and I'm not giving this thing back,
like you know, you're a rookie, you can to give
it back, right, That was I mean, those great lines,
and I mean those guys just they have so much personality.
But you know, just quickly to go back to Puli,
(06:26):
I just I love what you said, Matt about his
perspective and it you know, I don't want to it
doesn't seem like he you know, is completely like reformed
or anything, but it just it seems like somebody who
is in the weeds as close as you could get
to it and has now gotten out, has now gotten
some perspective of how it all went and maybe isn't
entirely proud of how every little bit of it went.
And I think that kind of comes through, whereas some
of the other voices you get they're still kind of
(06:48):
stuck in that or they they you know, they never
got over it, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I think he's just such a.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Unique point of view in this whole documentary and one.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Of his closest confidences, and the person who brought him
into the organization is Bill Belichick, and it's in Bill
Bellich is the same thing. He's true to character. He's
very buttoned up. His demeanor is very obvious when he's
in there, and he's the Bill Belichick that I think
everybody would expect. Whereas Scott he's he's opening himself up.
He's letting the viewer and the fancy a different side
(07:15):
of him that I don't think fan saw when he
was here working with the organization. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, And it was eye opening when when Matt and
I had him on that Pats from the Past podcast
and a lot of the stuff he echoes, you know,
in this thing. And I do think that Mike has
a good perspective on that. It's like he's the one
guy that's like, you know, we didn't have to do
it that way. He expressed that regret with Matt and
I when we did it. He he comes across, you know,
really likable, but you know, just sort of with great perspective,
(07:43):
you know. And some of the stuff, the interaction with
he and Ernie Adams, to me, some of that stuff
is really good too.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It's such great stuff. You know, you brought up Bill,
and I think Bill in these first two episodes comes
off smelling like a rose in my opinion, because you know,
they a lot of it is focused on the Brady
bled Cell's decision and how gutsy it was to make
that call because bled Cell was so close to the owner.
You know, at one part they talked about the owner
(08:08):
actually talking to Bill about, hey, you know, why aren't
you you know, so there was a lot of pressure
on Bill to make this thing. What I think hurt
Bill is himself. Like we're talking about all these great interviews,
you know, Ty law and Lawyer Maloya. Lawyer Maloy has
a lot of you know, acts to grind with this
team with question, you know, Scott Pioli and Jack. Everybody
(08:30):
came off great except Bill. He was so standoffish, in
defiant in his body language. And you know, yes, it's
the same Bill, but you had a chance to kind
of open up a little bit more and show us
a little bit and you didn't take that chance. Although
I think the actions speak louder than words. Like I said,
(08:52):
he came off really looking good in these first jar
as he should, As he should it was.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It was press conference Bill. That was what I this was.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
This was who we see in press conferences that's guarded.
You know, even from the initial kind of right crack,
you know, it felt like he was getting ready to
go to war a little bit. It makes me wonder
what it's going to be like when we get into
some of the more controversial stuff down the road is
built because I think everybody wants to watch this and
see the Bill from the Scarneckia induction, the storyteller, the
one who's going to tell you a little and we
(09:21):
didn't really get any of that, at.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Least in the first two episodes. Yeah, you want to
let me know.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Let you guys know one thing totally unrelated really to
the dynasty itself. But David NuGen is a guy who
not a lot of people listening right now probably even
know who he is. Right He was a fellow member
of the two thousand draft class, and he and Brady
were roommates, and you know, they both played in the
Big Ten. Nugent was a defensive lineman out of Purdue.
(09:46):
He has some great home footage that he should again.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Back to people's stuff, because they watch well, stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
That you've never seen. That's you know that until the point,
but it's it's stuff that you've never seen before, and
it just gives you sort of a glimpse of just
how psychotic Brady is when it came to everything competition wise,
it was tech mobile, it was pool, you know, it
(10:12):
was drinking beer, you know, like and he even you know,
he even lets it slip, like, yeah, maybe you gotta
mix a couple of waters in here or there.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Damian, who he didn't know that he was one of
the guys, is one of the boys. I just thought
Nugent's place in this as a sort of anonymous member
of the Patriots dynasty like that no one remembers, not
even you, and I really had much recollection of David NuGen.
I thought it was tremendous.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
But I find myself catching you know, like this is
a long time ago, and you forget. Yeah, even though
it was twenty four years ago, they still had camp
quarters back then, and like young people were filming everything.
They just weren't putting it on their phones and social media,
but they were capturing it. And Nugent did that.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
And we're gonna need this for the dynasty, right right,
twenty five years, so now we're gonna need this.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
That stuff was so great, And just to see Brady
before he was Tom Brady, just to see him as
kind of this puffy faced Michigan grad who you know,
you see the seeds of what he became and all
the you know, the competitiveness that you guys mentioned, you know,
some of the just I love the stuff that they
talked about what made him kind of special, the studying
he did, and you know, Bill kind of you know,
(11:20):
finding that out about him.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think that's something.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
On the outside, as as kind of a casual fan
in those early days, was like, well, how can they
not go back to bled cell? You know that on
the outside, that's how it seemed, But now you kind
of see, really there was a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I mean, Paul and I were here on the inside,
it was an easy decision for Paul and I even me,
You stick with Brady.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, and I love Drew.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I still love Drew.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But Fred's right, like, once Tom started winning games, it
didn't seem like it was that much of a decision
to be made. But inside they give you a peek
and they show you that it was. And I thought,
again the peoli Ernie Adams interaction you know on Drew
was interesting, but you prefaced at Freddy when Robert Kraft
(12:02):
comes on and says that he had a meeting with Bill,
and I think that he used the phrase that he
felt like Bill let us down. I felt Bill let
us down by sort of refusing to going back to
to Drew. And then you know, Pioli again offering some
really good insight. You know, he goes back to the
Cleveland situation, says, we've seen this movie before, we know
(12:25):
how this ends. So there was an awful lot riding
on it. So for us, fred it might have looked
and maybe we make it look a little easier with
twenty five years of dominance in hindsight, but at the
time it wasn't probably as much of a no brainer.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
As it It wasn't a no brainer, and like I said,
there was a lot of pressure on Bill right on
this decision.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You're watching and listening to the Patriots Dynasty doc recap,
and just a final thought on what Robert Kraft said.
He said those things that you said, you know, he
blamed you know, Bill was on the spot there, but
he also I thought what he said to Drew was
very poignant, incredibly insightful when he said, look, I'm the owner.
I can go up even say I'm the owner. He goes,
(13:04):
I can go and tell Billy I can make him
do it. I can make him do it, but he's
not going to want to do it. And that's not
good for you or me, right or me? And that
was I mean again, we're talking two thousand and one,
this is a year plus into their relationship. That's tremendously
insightful about how to handle a festering problem that's going
on in your organization.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, and by at that point, Bill had proven nothing correct,
like he didn't have the chops he had, you know,
five years later, he had no bona fides by that point.
But Robert Kraft let him do his job. And you
go back to the girod Mayo. I like to hire
good people and let them do their job. That was
that was it in action right back then. They hold
(13:47):
them accountable, right, and hold them accountable. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
I don't know if it's sorry but Paul, if I
jump on this, but I thought Drew looked great too,
And I mean it's just why I Drew, even through
this whole thing, class is still a Boston legend and
is still just beloved by Patriot fans. Still, you know
the way he handled this whole thing, and as we
go through it, it's just you realize how hard that is.
I mean, you know, talking to I mean listening to
his wife talk about how unfair they felt it was,
and it's it's just bizarre because it wasn't fair, but
(14:12):
it was the right thing for the team to happen.
And that's what's hard to heart about it. You don't
want Drew to get hurt. You want Drew to be
one of our guys, and I still.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Think he is.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I just don't know. Sorry, Paul, I know he's used
your guy, but but I thought it was great.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
So as we pivot from episode one to episode two
and Fred you talked, I thought one of the things
that really struck you that you were talking about is
how relieved Bill Belichick was in the immediate aftermath of
the Saints game. If everybody recalled the Rams game, you
know where they played the Rams pretty tough. That's the
greatest show on turf. I think there was a little
(14:46):
bit of a misrepresentation in my opinion in the documentary.
Is all doom and Gloom. I think the players felt
like they gave a pretty good punch and wanted to
see them again, but they split their reps and Bill
didn't think that Tom was fully prepared for that game.
In the Saints game, he got all the reps. Fred,
how do you think he looked after that?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh my god, it was like the weight of the
world was off his shoulders. And it showed me how
much pressure was on him. We know Bill doesn't like
to single guys out, especially right after games, but in
this press conference after the Saints game, you could see
and hear the relief, and he went on and on
about how Brady played, and you know, and it was,
(15:25):
you know, thank God, because my career is on the
line here. I've put my career on the shoulders of
this young kid from Michigan and it's starting to pay off. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
I mean, just to Matt's point about, you know, I
did the two thousand and one podcast where I interviewed
a lot of those guys about that game, and you know,
echoing everything Matt said that. You know, they they felt
like that was a turning point for them. But it's
another example of kind of we're not telling this story
from our perspective or from the perspective of that particular
team that had a turning point. This is about the dynasty,
and you know, they're more trying to plant the seeds
(15:59):
of what when Tom Brady finally turned that kind of corner.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, and we're mixing up a couple of things here
because we when we watched it, we were like, they
didn't portray the Rams game correctly, because that's what you're talking.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
It's a big criticism I would have, you know, like's
talk point. Yeah, we talked about, you know, the way
it opened and everything, all the things that we loved
about the way they sort of presented the documentary. There's
things I didn't like either, and this is one of
them because I think Mike is absolutely right and I've
talked to a lot of those players and they talked
about that game as being of like a validation the
(16:33):
Rams game. They lost it. They lost twenty four to
seventeen in a game that Tom threw a couple of picks,
and they really accentuated that. They didn't say anything about
the Antoine Smith fumble inside the one yard line that
you know, probably cost them the game, and just the
fact that they went toe to toe with this team,
and I think they really kind of felt that's the
(16:54):
first game that they took a really good team's best
punch and they stood toe to toe with them. That
gave them validation. Now, the fact that it was followed
up by the Saints game was such a relief for Belichick.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
As you said, Fred, and I think in that Rams game,
three Rams got carried off the field, right, you know, right? Yeah.
The other thing, this is just a little thing.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought
in Bill's description of Hey, we're going with Tom. Now
that's it, no more splitting reps. Tom's our guy. I'm
doing the best thing that I can for the team, team,
very famous SoundBite, because that's what mister Kraft would want.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Me to do, right, That's what he's paying hey to do.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
A year plus into the relationship, it wasn't Robert, it
was mister picked that it was mister Kraft, and that
just I think that shows you a little bit how
tenuous maybe that situation. His career is on the line.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
That so now going back to the you know, the
end of the Rams game, this is why it was
so like, you know, the relief that Fred talks about
with with Belichick after the Saints game, which was the
very next week. In between we go back and we
hear from Drew and Jew says a line, Uh, you know,
I was kind of thinking that maybe some of the
shine is off this nickel and I'm going to get
(18:07):
a chance to play now insightful, you know, And instead
Bill doubled down. Yeah, you know, in the face of
a couple of picks on a national stage. That was
a Sunday night game, and you know, again, prime time
Patriots didn't have a lot of that in two thousand
and one. Wasn't like it is now where you go
three four times a year. That was their their one
(18:28):
time to shine. Brady throws a couple of picks. Drew says,
there's my opening. Bill says, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Closed it. Close the door.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
And I think to your point, Paul, that that point
maybe could have been illustrated a little bit better by
why did he stick with Brady?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Because the team kind of stuck in that game.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
They made it to be this huge with these two guys,
but in reality, it wasn't so bad. Brady's play wasn't
so bad, and they picked and chew I thought picked
and choose some som bites. Chris Collinsworth probably didn't have
his Pro Football Focus numbers yet you know he hasn't
he hasn't played well in the last three gad I
don't even really remember that being the narrative at the time.
(19:03):
It was how bad Brady was playing. For the most part,
Brady did a great job of managing that team, staying
out of trouble and protecting the ball. Knowing what we
know about Bill, now, that's exactly what he's looking for,
right right, So I don't I didn't love the way
that was presented. I think that was a bigger turning
point in the Dynasty than it was.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
There was an editorial license taken there.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
We spoke about some of the interviews and who we
thought shined during this and a person that fans haven't
seen a lot of. And I thought this guy throughout
the entire ten parts of this documentary was really good.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And that's Ernie Adams.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
And in this episode too, the contempt that Ernie has
and I'm sure he spoke for many when he described
the scribes and if you're not in a building, if
you're not in a building.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I didn't love Nie.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I thought Ernie was really good.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I thought Ernie was really good.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
I thought that there was a whole thing in the
second episode where it was cheese Ball Central, where they
have him re enacting a trip from his home to
the to the snowball game, and I just thought that
was just over the top schlock. I describe everybody calls
reporter scribes like what I like to call them the scribes,
(20:15):
which everybody calls a newspaper reporter or ascribe. And you know,
if you're not in the building, you don't know. Well,
if you're not in the newsroom, you don't know either, Ernie.
It's not what you do for a living, Like, of course,
we don't know. I you know, I like. I love Ernie.
I love his insight. I love when we get to
interact with him on the Hall of Fame committee that
we're on. I didn't love him in the back, and
got to be honest.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
To hear that from his mouth validates what we already
kind of knew. Yes, they detest the media. Yes, both
Ernie and Bill are thickest thieves. Yes, their high school
they've known each other at their high school. They could
talk without talking, you know, they know each other so well,
and if Ernie felt that way, you know Bill did
too well.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
I will say in fairness what I did like about Ernie.
I thought Ernie and Scott did a great job of
sort of breaking down play So's deteriorations quarterback really and
I think a lot of that. You know, Scott told
the story, but a lot of it was from from Ernie.
Matter of fact, Scott actually impersonates Ernie a little bit, yes,
when he doesn't and doesn't spot on. I think Ernie
called under a wildernised under siege and it wasn't wrong.
(21:19):
Like Drew was no longer moving well in the pocket,
that was sort of the beginning of the end for him,
and I think Ernie was good insightful in that. Fred.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
One of the things that you touched on that I
think you were impressed by is at the end of
episode two, you can see the narrative being told about
where Bill was at that point time in his career,
where Tom was at that point time in his career,
and how they sort of pushed one another.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
What was your takeaway? I love that. And you know
we had the debate Brady or Bill and who made who?
And this proved because you're hearing their words. At that time,
they pushed each other. They were both football junkies. It was,
as Brady said, football from morning until night, and that's
all we talked about, and we loved it. And Bill
(22:04):
said he pushed me to be a better coach, and
I think Bill pushed Tom to be a better quarterback.
And they were on the same page, you know. They
I'm not saying they loved each other, but they loved
being together. Yeah, because they were talking the same language,
you know, the drive to win and to be better.
(22:25):
It was the perfect marriage. I'm sorry, I don't whatever
the narrative is now. Back then, it was the perfect
marriage and they made each other better.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That was one of my favorite spread, which just I
think we get so caught.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Up in, you know, Bill and giving his knowledge to Tom,
and I don't think it gets enough credit to Tom
saying you know, or Bill saying that he pushed me
that I knew I had to be as prepared. I
don't think that that's an angle that you know, really
has gotten talked about.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Much or even really highlighted. That was one of my
one of my favorite parts.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
And I think that now that we've seen how the
story has ended, but we get to go back and
see how that relationship and ships started, and it reminds
you that it wasn't how things ended, you know, it
wasn't just like that. There was a different part of it.
The relationship started in a completely different place, maybe in
a more innocent place, but the respect that they have
(23:15):
for each other, knowing what each of them did for
each other, really came across and.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
There's no way they could have done what they did
without that being the case. Correct, You know, it.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Was I like you saw it, you know, the whole
quarterback school like you just I do think that was,
you know, a really insightful ground floor of where it started.
You know, like those you know, like you like you
kids on Twitter, Mike, you know how it started? You know,
how's how's how's it going right?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Whatever? Oh?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You know me, I don't know, just enough to get
in trouble just a little bit. But it's one of those.
That's how it started. It started with Bill saying he
pushed me to be a better coach and Tom saying
it was quarterback school every day. Yeah, that's how it started.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
I think, you know, you know and realized too of
how much these two guys really kind of needed each other.
And I mean you highlighted Fred of how things were
kind of tenuous for Bill at that time, and you know,
had had they not come along for each other, who
knows how would have gone from a kind of.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Like it reminds me of good will hunting. I mean,
Matt Damon comes in and he's he's smart. I mean,
but it took that professor to see whoa and he
pushed him and pushed him to be better. And uh,
I again, perfect marriage.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Okay, Mike, I'm going to ask you this. I don't
know what you had for a Did you ever preconceived
notion before you watch this? Now that you've seen it,
how did it meet, reach, go below, or exceed your expectations?
Speaker 5 (24:40):
Sure? Well, I would say that it definitely met my expectations.
I assumed, you know, we were going to get what
we got, which was a lot of behind the scenes
footage that I haven't seen. And you know, you guys
were here, you shot a lot of it. But as
you know, as a fan on the outside when these
things were happening, I was, oh my gosh, Tom Brady,
micd up or Bill Belichick, might you know all those
things I consume, So the chance just get to see
(25:00):
the behind the scenes stuff I loved, and I just think,
you know, Puly, I think kind of embodies the perspective
of it, you know, of things that were good and
things that weren't good.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
And you know, we know that the reason that a
ten part Dynasty documentary is getting made about this team.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
Is because there was a lot of good and there
was a lot of you know, bad and controversial and
all those things. So I think to me purely kind
of embodied that of the perspective now.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Of knowing what we know now and how it went.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Those are my favorite parts. And really, I mean to
be honest, did the one podcast, just did an o
three podcasts.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I know these teams so well right now, I'm.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Really excited to get to the stuff that that I
haven't seen before, and especially the stuff later on when
I wasn't pursuing those little tidbits here and there. So
I'm really excited to keep going into it. That That's
what I'm most excited about right now.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
So these first two episodes that that we got to see,
you know, part you know, I'll take a spot from
from the first one. You're kind of another minor thing
that you forget. And I don't remember seeing this live.
Pretty early on, there was a thing in Boston called
Sports Final, Yeah, with Bob Lobell it was, and it
was Musty TV on Sunday nights. It was kind of
(26:04):
after the eleven o'clock News eleven thirty five Sports Final
and and you know, some of the writers would go
in and Bob Lobell, I think it might have been
after the San Diego Chargers game. I think it, like listen,
sometimes you take a little creative license. I think that
took place pretty quickly, pretty early in the Tom Brady era.
(26:25):
And he's like sort of like, I'm not saying there's
a quarterback controversy, but there might be. And everyone Steve Burke, Ryan,
how tare you?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's Drew Bledsoe's job.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
And I'm just like really insightful about by Bob Lobell
to see not only what was happening but where it
was going to go. Yeah, and you know, you know
Bob a little bit, Matt, I mean, he lived for
that button.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Guys like that look on his face and he was like, yeah,
I don't know is this I'm not saying it's a
quarterback controversy, but it kind of looks like it could
be one, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And then at the end of the second one when
you wrap up unbelievable locker room footage from that, from
the snowball, from the tuck Rule game, even comments from
the players it was over, like they still they still
watch it now, they still think it was a fumble,
like it's it's just to me, it's so funny how
they watch it. But then you get in the locker room,
just the jubilation, and I sort of juxtaposed that to
(27:25):
what I remembered about some of the later teams, where
winning was almost a relief yea, you know, because it
was like so much what they were expected to do, Like,
all right, we get to go to another super Bowl.
We took care of that, you know. There that was
just like a divisional round game. The division round game
became the infamous Tomato can game later on. You know,
this division round game was a miracle win at home
(27:48):
and the jubilation that was on you know, Teddy Bruski
with Marty Moore, you know who was you know, we
talk a lot about rock perty mister Arelvan. Marty Moore
was a mister irrelevant in nineteen ninety four. He's injured
at the time and he's never a doubt Marty like that.
Just the excitement on the players faces and there was
some great footage in that too.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
There was somebody mentioned the word innocence. There was a
lot of innocence. Yeah. Then, and you know what struck
me a lot was the craft small sea behind all
of this. Uh, Jeff Benedict and Matt Hamichick, you know,
the director, we know how hard they work. We had
you know, the Patriots had nothing to do with this
in terms of producing it, directing it, editorial say anything
(28:32):
like that. We cooperated in giving them the footage that
they asked for, So we know how hard they worked.
And it's what been three years since they've been working
on this, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, and to find a nugget like Sports Final, Yeah,
think about the researchers and the people who are doing
that kind of work.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That was great. A lot of hard work and craft
behind it. And you know, you've seen it so you
know that, the style of it, the interview, it's just
it's top class. And then you see Ron Howard and
Brian Grazers involved as well. So this is this is.
I'm really excited to see the rest.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
So we're talented enough to put footage of me in there,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I can't wait for the rest of it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
So you have been watching and listening a Patriots Dynasty
doc recap and we will come to you after every
time the documentary the documentary series drops the two episodes uh,
which will be every Friday for the next five weeks,
and we encourage you to engage with us because we
will be giving away books of the Dynasty right here.
(29:31):
Email us your comments about the documentary to web radio
at Patriots dot com with the subject Dynasty. If we
use your email, we will send you a book. We'll
be back to review and recap episodes three and four
next week
Some of the content in this podcast may not be
suitable for all audiences.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:08):
Welcome to the inaugural episode of Patriots Dynasty doc Recap
Matt Smith alongside Fred Kirsh, Paul Prillo, Mike Doss, where
our job here is to do a wrap up show
of the Dynasty documentary. The ten part documentary event The
Dynasty New England Patriots is streaming now exclusively on Apple
(00:30):
TV Plus. The first two episodes dropped on Friday, Episodes
one and two, and so we're here to recap that.
The schedule of this podcast will be as such, we
will drop a new Dynasty wrap up show every Friday
for the next five weeks. So let's get to it.
Episodes one and two. I'm going to start with you, Fred,
what were you most impressed with in episode one?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Well, I mean, first of all, the opening of the episode.
It's sort of like if you're at an musico and
there's an orchestra pit. The first thing they play is
the overture, and if you listen closely and remember what
you heard, you're gonna hear little pieces of everything that
you hear after that in that overture and I think
(01:14):
that's what they were giving us with that opening, is
you saw all the little pieces of the stories of
the dynasty in that opening. And I think they did
a great job. Like I had to watch it a
couple times, like, oh, you know, they're gonna talk about that,
They're gonna talk about that. And I think that that
opening in caps, you know, is gonna you know, foreshadow
(01:35):
everything that we're gonna see going forward. It was a
great hook.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
Yeah right, yeah, I totally agree. I thought it really
got you in it. And you know, for for us
that you know, we've we've all been around through a
lot of these you know, for the whole entirety of
the dynasty, and it brought you right back, you know,
and you said, Okay, let's get my popcorn, let's sit down,
let's get ready. I want to relive this. And I
thought it did a great job. Pictures did a great
(02:01):
job too. I mean, there was some great sound bites
that they had mixed in the imidola. One I thought
was great foreshadowing for something that's coming down when you know,
the one that's got a lot of play leaning into
the documentary, you know about playing for Bill, but I
mean working for Bill and playing for Tom. Yeah, I
just thought it did a great job of setting the scene.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
It really did.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
I mean, that's that's the crazy thing, is you realize.
Speaker 5 (02:21):
I mean when in hindsight you forget how long this
run was and how many huge storylines there were for
twenty years, you know, in and out, And I thought
that that part has set a great tone for me.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
I just I loved a lot of the new.
Speaker 5 (02:33):
Stuff, the behind the scenes stuff, the you guys will
make fun of me, But this stuck out to me.
This practice footage of Brady wearing a helmet I've never
seen him wear before. And I'm a nerd about that, sure,
That's how I am.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
People.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
You know, he had to have a string in his practice,
but he had the Peyton Milling helmet on it, and
I'm like, what is going on? I've never seen this
before in my life. But those are you know, the
things that that are just so cool. And you know,
just some of the footage where it's just simple b
roll and it's these guys hanging out and it's you know,
future Hall of Famers in the midst of this run
starting to put things together.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I just you know that that wow, we're sitting here
with our senior executive producer, Matt Smith. Kudos to him
because one of the things I think this documentary is
is a testament to film everything, even if you're not
going to use it right away or you may never
use it. Film everything. Because there's stuff in this documentary
that I've never seen before. And thank god we filmed
(03:22):
it so right.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
And for Fred and I to say it's stuff that
we've never seen before. We were working here through the
entirety of this and there was stuff that we've never
seen before.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
Now Matt probably you know, saw a little bit more,
you know, he was part of you know, the cruise
and whatnot. But to see pictures of practice at like
you know, the old stadium at rent them Staates was
like cool, Like I've you know, we used to get
like five minute windows, Mike, just like we do now.
Half the time we didn't go because it was such
(03:50):
a pain to get there, you know, like just let
me know who died, As Eddie Duckworth used to say,
you know, I don't need to know what's going on.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, no, I don't. But behind the scene in the
team meetings, just unbelievable stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
No one of the things that I was a big
fan of. And maybe that's to Fred's point. Maybe I'm
prejudiced because I've seen a lot of the footage. I
just thought the interviews, by and large, most of them
were tremendously insightful, and I have some favorites, quite honestly, Paul,
you and I did a podcast with Scott Pioli within
the last four or five months. Yeah, Scott comes off
(04:25):
really really well, and I think keeps the thread.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
It's a good storytelling. He's a really good story He
was seasoned back then because he comes from a pr
background right before he came to the Patriots. I mean,
he he knows how to speak. He's very articulate, not
a lot of ums and your nose and all that.
And like you said, Paul, he tells a good story, right.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
And it's one thing to have great information and great anecdotes,
but to deliver them in a way like the narcotic
line to me is just fantastic.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
That's and the perspective that I think he brings to
that he's away from it now, so maybe he can
see things little bit differently than when he was right
in the trenches. And I think he realizes, and he
said this to us at one point in time, but
I think he realizes. She said, wonder if we handled
that the right way? Did we do what we really
needed to do? But they were just so consumed by winning,
(05:14):
and the winning became a narcotic As Paul said, that
was really powerful.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And by the way, we're assuming everybody who's watching this
has watched the first two episodes, so if you haven't
turn it off, go to Apple TV Plus and watch them,
because we're going to give you spoilers. Yeah, no question
about it.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
We are going to ruin everything right because we don't
know how this has ended, right. And the other two
interviews that I just wanted to that really were tremendous
to me. And they were writing character where Tyla and
Lauria Maloy very good friends, tremendous players during this team,
but their color and their you know, just the way
(05:53):
they spoke, the looseness that they spoke, and the way
that they described things. I thought Patriot fans will really
enjoy hearing them, how they talked and how they described
what was going on.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Yeah, they were the gatekeepers of the old Patriots. I mean,
those were the guys from the nineties that were the
holdovers that you know, were the leaders of that team.
And I think, you know, just their perspective on Brady
coming in. I mean, my favorite part of you know,
Brady coming in and I'm not giving this thing back,
like you know, you're a rookie, you can to give
it back, right, That was I mean, those great lines,
and I mean those guys just they have so much personality.
But you know, just quickly to go back to Puli,
(06:26):
I just I love what you said, Matt about his
perspective and it you know, I don't want to it
doesn't seem like he you know, is completely like reformed
or anything, but it just it seems like somebody who
is in the weeds as close as you could get
to it and has now gotten out, has now gotten
some perspective of how it all went and maybe isn't
entirely proud of how every little bit of it went.
And I think that kind of comes through, whereas some
of the other voices you get they're still kind of
(06:48):
stuck in that or they they you know, they never
got over it, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
I think he's just such a.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Unique point of view in this whole documentary and one.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Of his closest confidences, and the person who brought him
into the organization is Bill Belichick, and it's in Bill
Bellich is the same thing. He's true to character. He's
very buttoned up. His demeanor is very obvious when he's
in there, and he's the Bill Belichick that I think
everybody would expect. Whereas Scott he's he's opening himself up.
He's letting the viewer and the fancy a different side
(07:15):
of him that I don't think fan saw when he
was here working with the organization. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Yeah, And it was eye opening when when Matt and
I had him on that Pats from the Past podcast
and a lot of the stuff he echoes, you know,
in this thing. And I do think that Mike has
a good perspective on that. It's like he's the one
guy that's like, you know, we didn't have to do
it that way. He expressed that regret with Matt and
I when we did it. He he comes across, you know,
really likable, but you know, just sort of with great perspective,
(07:43):
you know. And some of the stuff, the interaction with
he and Ernie Adams, to me, some of that stuff
is really good too.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
It's such great stuff. You know, you brought up Bill,
and I think Bill in these first two episodes comes
off smelling like a rose in my opinion, because you know,
they a lot of it is focused on the Brady
bled Cell's decision and how gutsy it was to make
that call because bled Cell was so close to the owner.
You know, at one part they talked about the owner
(08:08):
actually talking to Bill about, hey, you know, why aren't
you you know, so there was a lot of pressure
on Bill to make this thing. What I think hurt
Bill is himself. Like we're talking about all these great interviews,
you know, Ty law and Lawyer Maloya. Lawyer Maloy has
a lot of you know, acts to grind with this
team with question, you know, Scott Pioli and Jack. Everybody
(08:30):
came off great except Bill. He was so standoffish, in
defiant in his body language. And you know, yes, it's
the same Bill, but you had a chance to kind
of open up a little bit more and show us
a little bit and you didn't take that chance. Although
I think the actions speak louder than words. Like I said,
(08:52):
he came off really looking good in these first jar
as he should, As he should it was.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
It was press conference Bill. That was what I this was.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
This was who we see in press conferences that's guarded.
You know, even from the initial kind of right crack,
you know, it felt like he was getting ready to
go to war a little bit. It makes me wonder
what it's going to be like when we get into
some of the more controversial stuff down the road is
built because I think everybody wants to watch this and
see the Bill from the Scarneckia induction, the storyteller, the
one who's going to tell you a little and we
(09:21):
didn't really get any of that, at.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Least in the first two episodes. Yeah, you want to
let me know.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Let you guys know one thing totally unrelated really to
the dynasty itself. But David NuGen is a guy who
not a lot of people listening right now probably even
know who he is. Right He was a fellow member
of the two thousand draft class, and he and Brady
were roommates, and you know, they both played in the
Big Ten. Nugent was a defensive lineman out of Purdue.
(09:46):
He has some great home footage that he should again.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Back to people's stuff, because they watch well, stuff.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
That you've never seen. That's you know that until the point,
but it's it's stuff that you've never seen before, and
it just gives you sort of a glimpse of just
how psychotic Brady is when it came to everything competition wise,
it was tech mobile, it was pool, you know, it
(10:12):
was drinking beer, you know, like and he even you know,
he even lets it slip, like, yeah, maybe you gotta
mix a couple of waters in here or there.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (10:21):
Damian, who he didn't know that he was one of
the guys, is one of the boys. I just thought
Nugent's place in this as a sort of anonymous member
of the Patriots dynasty like that no one remembers, not
even you, and I really had much recollection of David NuGen.
I thought it was tremendous.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
But I find myself catching you know, like this is
a long time ago, and you forget. Yeah, even though
it was twenty four years ago, they still had camp
quarters back then, and like young people were filming everything.
They just weren't putting it on their phones and social media,
but they were capturing it. And Nugent did that.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
And we're gonna need this for the dynasty, right right,
twenty five years, so now we're gonna need this.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
That stuff was so great, And just to see Brady
before he was Tom Brady, just to see him as
kind of this puffy faced Michigan grad who you know,
you see the seeds of what he became and all
the you know, the competitiveness that you guys mentioned, you know,
some of the just I love the stuff that they
talked about what made him kind of special, the studying
he did, and you know, Bill kind of you know,
(11:20):
finding that out about him.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I think that's something.
Speaker 5 (11:21):
On the outside, as as kind of a casual fan
in those early days, was like, well, how can they
not go back to bled cell? You know that on
the outside, that's how it seemed, But now you kind
of see, really there was a lot.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
I mean, Paul and I were here on the inside,
it was an easy decision for Paul and I even me,
You stick with Brady.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Yeah, and I love Drew.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
I still love Drew.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
But Fred's right, like, once Tom started winning games, it
didn't seem like it was that much of a decision
to be made. But inside they give you a peek
and they show you that it was. And I thought,
again the peoli Ernie Adams interaction you know on Drew
was interesting, but you prefaced at Freddy when Robert Kraft
(12:02):
comes on and says that he had a meeting with Bill,
and I think that he used the phrase that he
felt like Bill let us down. I felt Bill let
us down by sort of refusing to going back to
to Drew. And then you know, Pioli again offering some
really good insight. You know, he goes back to the
Cleveland situation, says, we've seen this movie before, we know
(12:25):
how this ends. So there was an awful lot riding
on it. So for us, fred it might have looked
and maybe we make it look a little easier with
twenty five years of dominance in hindsight, but at the
time it wasn't probably as much of a no brainer.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
As it It wasn't a no brainer, and like I said,
there was a lot of pressure on Bill right on
this decision.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You're watching and listening to the Patriots Dynasty doc recap,
and just a final thought on what Robert Kraft said.
He said those things that you said, you know, he
blamed you know, Bill was on the spot there, but
he also I thought what he said to Drew was
very poignant, incredibly insightful when he said, look, I'm the owner.
I can go up even say I'm the owner. He goes,
(13:04):
I can go and tell Billy I can make him
do it. I can make him do it, but he's
not going to want to do it. And that's not
good for you or me, right or me? And that
was I mean again, we're talking two thousand and one,
this is a year plus into their relationship. That's tremendously
insightful about how to handle a festering problem that's going
on in your organization.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, and by at that point, Bill had proven nothing correct,
like he didn't have the chops he had, you know,
five years later, he had no bona fides by that point.
But Robert Kraft let him do his job. And you
go back to the girod Mayo. I like to hire
good people and let them do their job. That was
that was it in action right back then. They hold
(13:47):
them accountable, right, and hold them accountable. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
I don't know if it's sorry but Paul, if I
jump on this, but I thought Drew looked great too,
And I mean it's just why I Drew, even through
this whole thing, class is still a Boston legend and
is still just beloved by Patriot fans. Still, you know
the way he handled this whole thing, and as we
go through it, it's just you realize how hard that is.
I mean, you know, talking to I mean listening to
his wife talk about how unfair they felt it was,
and it's it's just bizarre because it wasn't fair, but
(14:12):
it was the right thing for the team to happen.
And that's what's hard to heart about it. You don't
want Drew to get hurt. You want Drew to be
one of our guys, and I still.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Think he is.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I just don't know. Sorry, Paul, I know he's used
your guy, but but I thought it was great.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
So as we pivot from episode one to episode two
and Fred you talked, I thought one of the things
that really struck you that you were talking about is
how relieved Bill Belichick was in the immediate aftermath of
the Saints game. If everybody recalled the Rams game, you
know where they played the Rams pretty tough. That's the
greatest show on turf. I think there was a little
(14:46):
bit of a misrepresentation in my opinion in the documentary.
Is all doom and Gloom. I think the players felt
like they gave a pretty good punch and wanted to
see them again, but they split their reps and Bill
didn't think that Tom was fully prepared for that game.
In the Saints game, he got all the reps. Fred,
how do you think he looked after that?
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh my god, it was like the weight of the
world was off his shoulders. And it showed me how
much pressure was on him. We know Bill doesn't like
to single guys out, especially right after games, but in
this press conference after the Saints game, you could see
and hear the relief, and he went on and on
about how Brady played, and you know, and it was,
(15:25):
you know, thank God, because my career is on the
line here. I've put my career on the shoulders of
this young kid from Michigan and it's starting to pay off. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:37):
I mean, just to Matt's point about, you know, I
did the two thousand and one podcast where I interviewed
a lot of those guys about that game, and you know,
echoing everything Matt said that. You know, they they felt
like that was a turning point for them. But it's
another example of kind of we're not telling this story
from our perspective or from the perspective of that particular
team that had a turning point. This is about the dynasty,
and you know, they're more trying to plant the seeds
(15:59):
of what when Tom Brady finally turned that kind of corner.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, and we're mixing up a couple of things here
because we when we watched it, we were like, they
didn't portray the Rams game correctly, because that's what you're talking.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
It's a big criticism I would have, you know, like's
talk point. Yeah, we talked about, you know, the way
it opened and everything, all the things that we loved
about the way they sort of presented the documentary. There's
things I didn't like either, and this is one of
them because I think Mike is absolutely right and I've
talked to a lot of those players and they talked
about that game as being of like a validation the
(16:33):
Rams game. They lost it. They lost twenty four to
seventeen in a game that Tom threw a couple of picks,
and they really accentuated that. They didn't say anything about
the Antoine Smith fumble inside the one yard line that
you know, probably cost them the game, and just the
fact that they went toe to toe with this team,
and I think they really kind of felt that's the
(16:54):
first game that they took a really good team's best
punch and they stood toe to toe with them. That
gave them validation. Now, the fact that it was followed
up by the Saints game was such a relief for Belichick.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
As you said, Fred, and I think in that Rams game,
three Rams got carried off the field, right, you know, right? Yeah.
The other thing, this is just a little thing.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought
in Bill's description of Hey, we're going with Tom. Now
that's it, no more splitting reps. Tom's our guy. I'm
doing the best thing that I can for the team, team,
very famous SoundBite, because that's what mister Kraft would want.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Me to do, right, That's what he's paying hey to do.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
A year plus into the relationship, it wasn't Robert, it
was mister picked that it was mister Kraft, and that
just I think that shows you a little bit how
tenuous maybe that situation. His career is on the line.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
That so now going back to the you know, the
end of the Rams game, this is why it was
so like, you know, the relief that Fred talks about
with with Belichick after the Saints game, which was the
very next week. In between we go back and we
hear from Drew and Jew says a line, Uh, you know,
I was kind of thinking that maybe some of the
shine is off this nickel and I'm going to get
(18:07):
a chance to play now insightful, you know, And instead
Bill doubled down. Yeah, you know, in the face of
a couple of picks on a national stage. That was
a Sunday night game, and you know, again, prime time
Patriots didn't have a lot of that in two thousand
and one. Wasn't like it is now where you go
three four times a year. That was their their one
(18:28):
time to shine. Brady throws a couple of picks. Drew says,
there's my opening. Bill says, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (18:34):
Closed it. Close the door.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
And I think to your point, Paul, that that point
maybe could have been illustrated a little bit better by
why did he stick with Brady?
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Because the team kind of stuck in that game.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
They made it to be this huge with these two guys,
but in reality, it wasn't so bad. Brady's play wasn't
so bad, and they picked and chew I thought picked
and choose some som bites. Chris Collinsworth probably didn't have
his Pro Football Focus numbers yet you know he hasn't
he hasn't played well in the last three gad I
don't even really remember that being the narrative at the time.
(19:03):
It was how bad Brady was playing. For the most part,
Brady did a great job of managing that team, staying
out of trouble and protecting the ball. Knowing what we
know about Bill, now, that's exactly what he's looking for,
right right, So I don't I didn't love the way
that was presented. I think that was a bigger turning
point in the Dynasty than it was.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
There was an editorial license taken there.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
We spoke about some of the interviews and who we
thought shined during this and a person that fans haven't
seen a lot of. And I thought this guy throughout
the entire ten parts of this documentary was really good.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And that's Ernie Adams.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
And in this episode too, the contempt that Ernie has
and I'm sure he spoke for many when he described
the scribes and if you're not in a building, if
you're not in a building.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
I didn't love Nie.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
I thought Ernie was really good.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I thought Ernie was really good.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
I thought that there was a whole thing in the
second episode where it was cheese Ball Central, where they
have him re enacting a trip from his home to
the to the snowball game, and I just thought that
was just over the top schlock. I describe everybody calls
reporter scribes like what I like to call them the scribes,
(20:15):
which everybody calls a newspaper reporter or ascribe. And you know,
if you're not in the building, you don't know. Well,
if you're not in the newsroom, you don't know either, Ernie.
It's not what you do for a living, Like, of course,
we don't know. I you know, I like. I love Ernie.
I love his insight. I love when we get to
interact with him on the Hall of Fame committee that
we're on. I didn't love him in the back, and
got to be honest.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
To hear that from his mouth validates what we already
kind of knew. Yes, they detest the media. Yes, both
Ernie and Bill are thickest thieves. Yes, their high school
they've known each other at their high school. They could
talk without talking, you know, they know each other so well,
and if Ernie felt that way, you know Bill did
too well.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
I will say in fairness what I did like about Ernie.
I thought Ernie and Scott did a great job of
sort of breaking down play So's deteriorations quarterback really and
I think a lot of that. You know, Scott told
the story, but a lot of it was from from Ernie.
Matter of fact, Scott actually impersonates Ernie a little bit, yes,
when he doesn't and doesn't spot on. I think Ernie
called under a wildernised under siege and it wasn't wrong.
(21:19):
Like Drew was no longer moving well in the pocket,
that was sort of the beginning of the end for him,
and I think Ernie was good insightful in that. Fred.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
One of the things that you touched on that I
think you were impressed by is at the end of
episode two, you can see the narrative being told about
where Bill was at that point time in his career,
where Tom was at that point time in his career,
and how they sort of pushed one another.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
What was your takeaway? I love that. And you know
we had the debate Brady or Bill and who made who?
And this proved because you're hearing their words. At that time,
they pushed each other. They were both football junkies. It was,
as Brady said, football from morning until night, and that's
all we talked about, and we loved it. And Bill
(22:04):
said he pushed me to be a better coach, and
I think Bill pushed Tom to be a better quarterback.
And they were on the same page, you know. They
I'm not saying they loved each other, but they loved
being together. Yeah, because they were talking the same language,
you know, the drive to win and to be better.
(22:25):
It was the perfect marriage. I'm sorry, I don't whatever
the narrative is now. Back then, it was the perfect
marriage and they made each other better.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
That was one of my favorite spread, which just I
think we get so caught.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
Up in, you know, Bill and giving his knowledge to Tom,
and I don't think it gets enough credit to Tom
saying you know, or Bill saying that he pushed me
that I knew I had to be as prepared. I
don't think that that's an angle that you know, really
has gotten talked about.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Much or even really highlighted. That was one of my
one of my favorite parts.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
And I think that now that we've seen how the
story has ended, but we get to go back and
see how that relationship and ships started, and it reminds
you that it wasn't how things ended, you know, it
wasn't just like that. There was a different part of it.
The relationship started in a completely different place, maybe in
a more innocent place, but the respect that they have
(23:15):
for each other, knowing what each of them did for
each other, really came across and.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
There's no way they could have done what they did
without that being the case. Correct, You know, it.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
Was I like you saw it, you know, the whole
quarterback school like you just I do think that was,
you know, a really insightful ground floor of where it started.
You know, like those you know, like you like you
kids on Twitter, Mike, you know how it started? You know,
how's how's how's it going right?
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Whatever? Oh?
Speaker 4 (23:47):
You know me, I don't know, just enough to get
in trouble just a little bit. But it's one of those.
That's how it started. It started with Bill saying he
pushed me to be a better coach and Tom saying
it was quarterback school every day. Yeah, that's how it started.
Speaker 5 (23:59):
I think, you know, you know and realized too of
how much these two guys really kind of needed each other.
And I mean you highlighted Fred of how things were
kind of tenuous for Bill at that time, and you know,
had had they not come along for each other, who
knows how would have gone from a kind of.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Like it reminds me of good will hunting. I mean,
Matt Damon comes in and he's he's smart. I mean,
but it took that professor to see whoa and he
pushed him and pushed him to be better. And uh,
I again, perfect marriage.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
Okay, Mike, I'm going to ask you this. I don't
know what you had for a Did you ever preconceived
notion before you watch this? Now that you've seen it,
how did it meet, reach, go below, or exceed your expectations?
Speaker 5 (24:40):
Sure? Well, I would say that it definitely met my expectations.
I assumed, you know, we were going to get what
we got, which was a lot of behind the scenes
footage that I haven't seen. And you know, you guys
were here, you shot a lot of it. But as
you know, as a fan on the outside when these
things were happening, I was, oh my gosh, Tom Brady,
micd up or Bill Belichick, might you know all those
things I consume, So the chance just get to see
(25:00):
the behind the scenes stuff I loved, and I just think,
you know, Puly, I think kind of embodies the perspective
of it, you know, of things that were good and
things that weren't good.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
And you know, we know that the reason that a
ten part Dynasty documentary is getting made about this team.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
Is because there was a lot of good and there
was a lot of you know, bad and controversial and
all those things. So I think to me purely kind
of embodied that of the perspective now.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Of knowing what we know now and how it went.
Speaker 5 (25:25):
Those are my favorite parts. And really, I mean to
be honest, did the one podcast, just did an o
three podcasts.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I know these teams so well right now, I'm.
Speaker 5 (25:32):
Really excited to get to the stuff that that I
haven't seen before, and especially the stuff later on when
I wasn't pursuing those little tidbits here and there. So
I'm really excited to keep going into it. That That's
what I'm most excited about right now.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
So these first two episodes that that we got to see,
you know, part you know, I'll take a spot from
from the first one. You're kind of another minor thing
that you forget. And I don't remember seeing this live.
Pretty early on, there was a thing in Boston called
Sports Final, Yeah, with Bob Lobell it was, and it
was Musty TV on Sunday nights. It was kind of
(26:04):
after the eleven o'clock News eleven thirty five Sports Final
and and you know, some of the writers would go
in and Bob Lobell, I think it might have been
after the San Diego Chargers game. I think it, like listen,
sometimes you take a little creative license. I think that
took place pretty quickly, pretty early in the Tom Brady era.
(26:25):
And he's like sort of like, I'm not saying there's
a quarterback controversy, but there might be. And everyone Steve Burke, Ryan,
how tare you?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
It's Drew Bledsoe's job.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
And I'm just like really insightful about by Bob Lobell
to see not only what was happening but where it
was going to go. Yeah, and you know, you know
Bob a little bit, Matt, I mean, he lived for
that button.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Guys like that look on his face and he was like, yeah,
I don't know is this I'm not saying it's a
quarterback controversy, but it kind of looks like it could
be one, you know.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
And then at the end of the second one when
you wrap up unbelievable locker room footage from that, from
the snowball, from the tuck Rule game, even comments from
the players it was over, like they still they still
watch it now, they still think it was a fumble,
like it's it's just to me, it's so funny how
they watch it. But then you get in the locker room,
just the jubilation, and I sort of juxtaposed that to
(27:25):
what I remembered about some of the later teams, where
winning was almost a relief yea, you know, because it
was like so much what they were expected to do, Like,
all right, we get to go to another super Bowl.
We took care of that, you know. There that was
just like a divisional round game. The division round game
became the infamous Tomato can game later on. You know,
this division round game was a miracle win at home
(27:48):
and the jubilation that was on you know, Teddy Bruski
with Marty Moore, you know who was you know, we
talk a lot about rock perty mister Arelvan. Marty Moore
was a mister irrelevant in nineteen ninety four. He's injured
at the time and he's never a doubt Marty like that.
Just the excitement on the players faces and there was
some great footage in that too.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
There was somebody mentioned the word innocence. There was a
lot of innocence. Yeah. Then, and you know what struck
me a lot was the craft small sea behind all
of this. Uh, Jeff Benedict and Matt Hamichick, you know,
the director, we know how hard they work. We had
you know, the Patriots had nothing to do with this
in terms of producing it, directing it, editorial say anything
(28:32):
like that. We cooperated in giving them the footage that
they asked for, So we know how hard they worked.
And it's what been three years since they've been working
on this, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, and to find a nugget like Sports Final, Yeah,
think about the researchers and the people who are doing
that kind of work.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
That was great. A lot of hard work and craft
behind it. And you know, you've seen it so you
know that, the style of it, the interview, it's just
it's top class. And then you see Ron Howard and
Brian Grazers involved as well. So this is this is.
I'm really excited to see the rest.
Speaker 4 (29:03):
So we're talented enough to put footage of me in there,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I can't wait for the rest of it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
So you have been watching and listening a Patriots Dynasty
doc recap and we will come to you after every
time the documentary the documentary series drops the two episodes uh,
which will be every Friday for the next five weeks,
and we encourage you to engage with us because we
will be giving away books of the Dynasty right here.
(29:31):
Email us your comments about the documentary to web radio
at Patriots dot com with the subject Dynasty. If we
use your email, we will send you a book. We'll
be back to review and recap episodes three and four
next week
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