October 27, 2025 • 45 mins
What happens when you achieve the biggest dream of your life at 16? After national treasure Jessica Watson sailed around the world solo at 16, she had to figure out what to do next. The world expected more adventure, more record-breaking, something bigger and more dramatic.
But, her first pivot was one no one saw coming: she went back to school, went to uni, got an MBA and built a career as a management consultant. After being homeschooled, study was a daunting prospect, but Jess didn’t let fear get in the way of making change.
But that’s not the only pivot this conversation is about. Years after her voyage, Jess faced a challenge far greater than any storm at sea: the sudden, catastrophic loss of her long-term partner, Cam. That, she says, was her real pivot.
In this episode of Pivot Club, Sarah Davidson speaks with Jess to find out how she navigated both of these life-altering changes. They discuss handling the crushing weight of expectation, building an identity separate from the one thing everyone knows you for, and the "messy, human kind" of resilience required to rebuild your entire "compass" after it’s been shattered by grief.
Join us for this story of strength that is a profound reminder that sometimes, the bravest thing you can do is to find joy in a quiet life, right where you are.
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CREDITS:
Guest: Jessica Watson
Host: Sarah Davidson
Executive Producer: Courtney Ammenhauser
Senior Producer: Sally Best
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a Mother and Mere podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Have you ever been deep into a life you've spent
years building, only to have this nagging feeling that it's
just not right anymore, That feeling when you look at
the path you're on and say, this isn't where or
who I'm meant to be. This is Pivot Club, and
I'm your host. Sarah Davidson, a fellow member of the
Pivot Club.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
In a past life, I was an m and a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'd done the exams, I'd ticked all the boxes, and
then I decided to change course completely and run my
own business matcha Maiden. That one decision put me on
a totally new path as an entrepreneur, content creator, and
podcast host. But today isn't about my story. It's about
someone who didn't just wonder what life would be like
if they changed course. It's about someone who actually did it.
(01:02):
Here we get inside those moments of rewriting history and
unpacking professional plot twists. So let's dive into their story
of courage, of uncertainty, and of what happens when you decide.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
To join the Pivot Club.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
You will know today's guest as National Treasure Jessica Watson.
We all watched, holding our breath as she became the
youngest person to sale solo, NonStop and unassisted around the world.
She was sixteen, and when she returned, we all asked,
what's next. The unspoken expectation was more, more adventure, more
(01:38):
record breaking, something bigger and more dramatic. But Jessica's biggest
pivot wasn't what any of us expected. On paper, her
next steps look almost ordinary. She finished school, went to UNI,
did an MBA, and got a corporate job, and for
the last seven and a half years she's been building
a career as a management consultant.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And that's the pivot we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
What happens when you achieved the biggest stream of your
life before you were even legally eligible to vote. How
do you build an identity separate from the one thing
everyone knows you for? And how do you find genuine
fulfillment in the perceived ordinary in an office, in a
routine when the world expects you to be extraordinary. Twenty
four to seven years after her voyage, jess faced a
(02:24):
challenge far greater than any storm at sea, the sudden,
catastrophic loss of her long term partner Can that she
says was her real pivot. Jess's story is a profound
reminder that sometimes the bravest thing you can do isn't
to sail around the world, but to find joy in
a quiet life right where you are.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Jess, Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It is so surreal to be sitting in front of
what has been You know, you're a national treasure, You're
Australia's sweetheart, and I've followed your journey for so long,
so it is a true privilege to be sitting with
you today.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's very generous, and in your sailor stripes as well,
which is very very special for the occasion, of course,
it's pretty standard. Well, of course we are here today
to talk about the power of the pivot. And I
feel like before you even turned eighteen, you had been
through more pivots than most of us have or we'll
have in a lifetime. But I think it makes sense
(03:24):
to maybe go back to the very beginning to your
past life and have a little look at how it
all began. So I think you've talked about growing up
really outdoorsy, which does make sense. Who introduced you to
sailing and tell us about your life growing up.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It was a family thing, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I mean, we'd always spent our holidays and weekends doors
and camping, and then as an eight year old, it
was actually for my brother's birthday that we were sent
down to the local yacht club as a sort of
present for him. And it was then my older sister
who really took to it, so she became a great sailor,
loved it, and you know, me and my brother and
(04:06):
little sister were kind of following along a.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Little bit reluctantly.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Actually to start with, I found it quite scary and intimidating,
No way scary, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was not the confident,
kind of outgoing kid with all the courage you'd expect.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Gosh, that is so fascinating because now I look at
you and think, truly you are just unstoppable. And it's
fascinating to me that you began scared of the thing
that you embraced.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And so it was only at.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Twelve years old when you first decided that you would
embrace sailing and.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Become the youngest person to sail around the world.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
How did you go from scared of being on the
water to such a huge, ambitious goal.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I mean, there were lots of things happening in the background,
right in terms of you know, as a family, we'd
really taken to sailing. We were spending our weekends at
a yacht club and we actually went on to live
on a boat for a number of years.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
So we were sort of very much.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Surrounded by this world and perhaps it was having more
of an influence on me than I necessarily realized for
a while there. And then, of all things, it was
a bedtime story that mum read to me about Jesse Martin,
who sailed around the world aged eighteen, another young Australian
and Victorian, and that.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Book just sort of didle the damage for me to
just put this fling into the CIA exactly. You be
careful what you read your kids.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
I'm always telling parents, and you know, be careful of
telling them you can do anything you set your.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Mind too, because you know that's what they might go
and do it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
He told me, and look what happened, and was like, oh, okay,
maybe not that, but yeah, to your point, how do
you go from that scared, fearful girl to someone who
wants to sail around the world?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And goes on to do that.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, the funny thing was, I probably wasn't a confident
person still when I decided I wanted to do it, it
was actually kind of consciously going, well, if.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I want to do that, I need to change who
I am.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I can't be this fearful, timid kid who falls apart
as soon as the weather turns a bit bad and
it's a bit scary. So it was actually a very
conscious choice to go, all right, I've got to change,
you know, start pretending, start kind of faking it, and
then actually realizing, well, like, do have the experience and
I can do this, and.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Actually it's scary, but it's you know, manageable.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So yeah, it was actually kind of the reverse of
what you might imagine.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, I actually think that's really powerful for our listeners
that we do really silo ourselves and think I'm a
shy kid, or I don't like public speaking, or you know,
I'm really introverted, and I don't think we believe you
can decide to change. But you're an incredible example of
at such a young age, just deciding actually that's what
I need to be.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I'll be it. Yeah, I mean, oh gosh, I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I think, like the one thing about me, I love
to simplify things. And if you go we'll work backwards.
You know, what are the things you've got to do
to make this thing possible? And if one of those
things is that you know, you've got to be a
slightly more courageous person, then it's not not to say
it's easy.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, if you really want to do something, you know,
who do you need to be to do that?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And obviously I think a lot of people at twelve
do come out with these big exciting dreams like become
an astronaut or you know, fly to the moon, and
not many of us actually go ahead and do it.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Let alone. Again, as I mentioned before, they're eighteen.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And yet you actually did go on to spend two
hundred and ten days at sea and grew up very
very quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
A massive challenge. How did you deal with that growth?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I mean, I can't actually fathom a twelve to sixteen
year old having the mental strength to even put together
this plan.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
How did you do that? I would have growl inside
your brain. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Maybe you'll discover some screws loose going to get a
longest vine.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah. It is really interesting because quite often I kind
of feel like I get kind of stuck in these
conversations where some people get it and some people, you know,
maybe the parents or something, and they just cannot understand it.
And I think there are some kids that maybe are
really driven and clear on what they want to do
at a young age. I mean, look at the incredible
amount of athletes who are so focused from a young age.
(08:21):
And then there's others who aren't.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And that's great, you know, be that kid to have
a childhood heart and child like please be care exactly,
But there are those examples of kids who and some
people kind of go, oh, yeah, I can.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I know a kid like that who was really determined
and clear on what they wanted to do from an
early age. And for whatever reason that was, that was me,
and you know that's why my parents reluctantly went along
with it. And obviously a lot of other people became
part of it along the way, and they think snowball.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, like what they do for you, Yeah, not for
every kid. But what was really wonderful and why I
very much feel privileged to be sitting with you today
is that I did follow along very much. Most of
Australia follow it along, watching you go from sort of
expressing this stream and having you know your training, sales
and getting prepared to then spending that enormous amount of
(09:16):
time out in open water and not just that but
on your own at an age where a lot of
us aren't used to solitude and maybe don't have the
sort of mental power to sit in that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And then also when you came back going straight into
the opposite.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yes, in a big way, and you know to your
early point about that growth and how do you prepare
for something like that? Well, actually I feel like mentally
had done it before setting off, because really so much
of it was visualizing and imagining what it's.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Going to be like, do I really want to do that?
How's that going to feel?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So getting out there was almost a bit of a
case of okay, time to get.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
On with it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
A lot of the growth and learning I think had
actually come beforehand, because obviously it was years of preparation too,
and so much of that with a huge, amazing team
of people. That's really I think the bigger piece of
growth than in a way the voyage itself. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, maybe maybe we're not all.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Capable of spending childred and ten days alone. It's supposed
to be.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It's supposed to be this terrible thing when we lock
people up, But when you want to do it, you've
got a purpose.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You don't feel alone.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's that classic kind of idea of you know, you
can feel alone in a crowd of people.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I did not feel lonely out there.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I felt like I was part of a team of people,
and I felt connected with people all around the world
following the trip.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And yeah, just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Humans are incredibly adaptable, and for me it's maybe a
bit of a case of don't overthinking.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean, they truly are adaptable.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And that was one of the incredible things about watching
you was going from watching you sit on this incredibly
peaceful water and look out and just marvel at the
beauty of the environment at an age where most of
us are sort of watching TV and not really paying
much attention to the beauty the environment. But then you know,
a couple of weeks later, in the throes of the
wilder storm, genuinely wondering whether you might make it through,
(11:15):
and again at such a young age facing that kind
of fear. Were there moments where you were like, I
can't do this and how do you pivot?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
In those moments?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
There were those moments though, the wondering whether like how
my boat and I going to sort of withstand the
force of what we were experiencing in terms of you know,
waves and knockdowns, the boat being rolled upside down.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So yeah, there were There was really probably only.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
The worst storm where there was a period of hours
where it was really hard to comprehend how we could survive.
But my head was probably quite blank in those few hours.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It was that was good.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
It was it was the time after that where I
was really able to kind of comprehend how how Diocee was.
But in terms of a moment of kind of I've
had enough, And I think that was so funny when
I was working with that on the movie, they really
wanted me to have had this moment right because it
would have just been passed.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Such good today and you need that.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Clear distinct moment where you're like gonna give up and
what was that thing that kept you going?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
And they really there really wasn't.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It's not to say it was incredibly hard I wasn't
really miserable and you know, good old crying sessions and
all that sort of messy stuff, and felt miserable, but
there were a lot of positive kind of strategies for
coping and I got better at it. And also, when
it really comes down to it, I didn't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, so you had to keep going. So people ask
for advice on really li inst and.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Stuff, and it's like, like, please, please, like balance this
advice with the good things where you do need to
look after yourself and rest.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
When you can and all of those things.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
But put yourself in a situation where the easiest thing
to do or the only thing to do, is to
keep going, and believe it or not, you'll probably keep going.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Oh my goodness, And it really does seem like you
have continued to do that. You have just kept on
keeping on and like you said, been so incredibly adaptable,
which makes you such an amazing candidate for this podcast.
You are literally a walking pivot. And I mean, if
anyone hasn't I think most of ISRAELI probably has. But
if anyone hasn't engaged with the details of your incredible journey,
(13:23):
I could watch and listen, you know, over and over again.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So please do go back and revisit that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
What I'm fascinated to talk to you about is really
that kind of messy middle, which is what came next,
Because I think what happens when we set these huge goals,
especially ones that are kind of unlikely or against some
serious odds that we might achieve them.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Is it then when you do, like what comes next?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Who are you when your identity isn't sailing around the
world or when it is sailing around the world and
suddenly you've got this media scrum at you that you
didn't necessarily sign up for.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It was like, you know, what's next? What are you
going to do better that? And it's like, oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
We're one play that we.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Can second navigate, you have a driver's license, you know
some things like that. Yeah, so it was it was funny,
but there really was that. And and the thing is
about this what's next and what are you going to
do to better that? Is it's we want something dramatic
and like, you know, media worthy. It wasn't kind of
a people weren't really that enthusiastic when they're like, okay,
(14:38):
you're going to go finish Rechoo and yeah, you want
to go study what like? That's we wanted something dramatic
and spectacular. That's the sense I had. And it was
obviously then really interesting to kind of navigate what do
I really want to do compared to what what do
other people want for me? In a way though, I
(14:58):
was so maybe it was lucky that I had this
whirl and incredible couple of years of book tours all
around the world young Australian in the year and what
an humbling, extraordinary experience that was, you know, to actually
win that against finalists who are doing these incredibly selfless,
amazing things and spend time with.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
People like that.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So there was these couple of years of just extraordinary
things that probably did give me a bit of a
period to kind of try things, to be very busy
and enjoy a lot of things before I really had
to kind of go what do I actually want to
do next?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And it's really interesting because I think most people's pathways,
and particularly in that kind of chapter of your life,
are like the decisions we make are equal parts being
influenced by societal expectations or family or other people's you know,
external factors. And then half of that is also what
do I want to do? And I think the rest
(15:54):
of your life really is the balance of that. And
for that first two years it was on such a high.
Did you ever have a bit of a come down
when you suddenly weren't doing the big, you know, record
breaking thing or did you seek something quieter?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And it is interesting because so many other athletes and
fellow adventurers we've kind of done similar things, have experienced that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But I really didn't. Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I think it was just so extraordinary, the world wind
of experience that got to be part of. And then
kind of quite quickly jumping into things like a youth
and Hobat campaign and some pretty big things like that
that were really challenging me in new and different ways
quite quickly was probably good.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
There's probably a few points through that where I was
probably a bit like I look.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Back now and realize it was probably a bit of
kind of burnout from them the pace of it all.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
But it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It really wasn't that kind of moment that I think
a lot of people experience.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
If anything, it was kind of later when.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I realized, oh, I've got to keep putting challenges in
front of myself and keep having things that are going
to keep me fulfilled. And that's kind of the point
where I started looking to start and to going, oh
what snakes? Well, actually I think I do want to
go back to school.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, which is so interesting because you're right, so many
people who are adventurers as their sort of default title
do live off the adrenaline of continuing on that pathway
and do have a bit of a coutdown when they
reach that goal and then wait for the next thing.
When you were sort of planning what the other avenues
were and then you kind of were thrust into the
(17:34):
spotlight but also in the background, shying away from fame
and working out what you wanted. How did you work
that out? Did you sit down? Did you ask people?
Did you get any therapy? Like did you have a
careers counselor no, there's no.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Careers counselor no?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
No, actually there was no yeah kind of psych at
that point in life either. I mean, I was definitely
trial and error. I think was probably one of my
bigger methods. Boy's found that fairly effective.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
It's a great one. Yeah. I love that you don't
overthink it. Yeah, but no, I do.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I do actually recognize that I'm, for whatever reason, I'm
quite lucky, and that I've never struggled with kind of indecision.
I've probably more thrown myself into everything and gone, oh
my gosh.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Now, how.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Do I keep up so lucky in that regard, because
I do see a lot of people really struggle with that.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You know, what do I do?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Then?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Obviously that's for me.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It was a place of real privilege that I had
an incredible, you know, number of different directions I could
have taken life and career as well.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Can you give us a.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Bit of an overview of the timeline of your education
after the voyage and how it all kind of unraveled.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, the timeline was interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Probably wasn't too long after getting back that I did
start this sort of night school thing.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Got a few subjects done, cut a few corners in
all honesty.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
But I certainly didn't kind of get the perfect grades
and do it the way you're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
But I kind of wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Something that represented finishing school for me. Yeah, if it
wasn't really required. So it was actually probably within six
months or something where I'd kind of gone and done that,
you know, At the same time as the book was
being written and all these other things as well, and
then after that it would have been a good year
maybe if things like Youth Sidney Hobalt, which was extraordinary
learning in terms of leadership and other skill sets. And
(19:25):
after that I found that way to university, possibly also
large part because it's what friends around me were.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Doing, influenced in a good way.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I think what I found with university was that
I was actually really enjoying it. I think another thing
that influenced that was being a youth representative of the
in that Nations World Food Program and getting to see
some extraordinary but very challenged parts of the world, and
you know, talking to young people who were not much
younger than me and how much education meant to them
and how much would have meant to them to be
(19:57):
able to continue and kind of yeah, a bit of
a sort of slap in the face in terms of
wake up call of what apprivileged education was. So so yeah,
I did a project management to ployer and then I
suppose got to the end of the study and kind
of went, well, I'm I'm really enjoying this and I
do want to keep challenging myself in this regard, so
ended up going down the path of doing an MBA
(20:17):
as well, which I really thoroughly enjoyed, kind of again
quite a general way to study, which was really interesting
to me to be able to study a bit of everything.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So I think that there are these other sort of
pathways that may work better for some people. I love
that reminder because I do think that we have this
view of what's the conventional way to get into UNI
or to do a certain pathway, and then once you've
missed that, I think people self select themselves out of
it because they're worried that they can't keep up, or
(20:48):
they won't know what to do, or they've been out
of the game for so long. And I mean, you're
such an amazing example that it's not their way at all.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Absolutely not. You seem like an amazing advocate for doing
things slightly differently. Yeah. Probably.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I think going back to education is already quite overwhelming
when you've had some time away from it, but experiencing
dyslexia can often add another layer of apprehension or challenge
or maybe fear for some people, particularly for some of
our listeners who might be experiencing dyslexor as well. Was
that how it sort of manifested for you or do
(21:24):
you have any tips that have helped you along the
way to manage it or to even you know, quell
the fear that you have going back into the education system.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I think luckily I found the ability to kind of
study in your own ways, and the great tools out
there to help meant that it was fairly easy through study.
I think it's a really cool.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Thing to come back to higher education kind of on
your own terms, you know, studying because you want to.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, that initial fear and that kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Desire to prove myself that I could do this was
quite significant and very significant then going into a career,
and that was something I was very kind of weary
of and I wasn't quite sure how it was going
to work, you know, because my colleagues are incredibly bright people,
and then you know there's a little old dyslexic me.
You didn't really finish school, and I suppose I think
(22:18):
I knew it a little bit to start with, by
I wish I'd got this sooner. And you see this
with a lot of people, you know, starting out in
anything in terms of a career or a job that
do back what you do have in terms of your
different experiences and you can bring to the table. And
for me, you know, I probably should have even sooner
kind of trusted myself in terms of my experience, and
you know, now I'm at this amazing place where I
(22:40):
really don't care about my dyslexingness and sometimes the ridiculous
spelling errors and kind of things.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
That do happen.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And you had the fear of taking notes in front
of people in the early days and so significant, but
now I'm like, I really don't care because I really
trust what I have to bring to the table. And yeah,
of course there's probably a bit of an element of
credibility that might be undermined if if you can't you
write some fairly basic works. But at the same time,
(23:09):
there's such great technology and ways around it these days,
and I just really have kind of confidence and what
I can bring and what I can bring because of.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Being dyslexic as well.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Well.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I definitely want to chat about what that incredible basis
now in your MBA has done for you. And again
another huge pivot, but still while we're in this messy middle,
another major major life change that has happened to you,
and that perhaps people who followed you earlier on and
haven't caught up might not know about. And that is
the loss of your long term partner, Cam, which was
(23:42):
obviously a huge shock, quite out of the blue. He
passed away from a catastrophic stroke at the age of
twenty nine, which is just so young and so young
for you as well in your life after ten years
together adventuring. That's a life pivot I don't think many
people ever have to face. Can you talk to us
a bit about that redirection in your life?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Yeah, it's really really significant, and it's kind of crazy
for me to obviously talk about life pivots without like
acknowledging that this is the biggest of them all and
far more significant to me than obviously the sailing around
the world thing that everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Knows me for.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
But yeah, you know, we had that ten years together
and had just assumed that there was the future forever.
So that was the sort of life plan and pathway,
and the extent to which that has shaped me is
just extraordinary. Obviously shaped me in terms of who I
was and growing up together, but also I suppose that
(24:40):
period of grief and learning to cope through that has
really really shaped who I am today and in quite
an incredible way. I would never have imagined it. And
there's no silver lining or anything like that. There's absolutely
nothing that sort of makes it okay in the way.
But gosh, that cliche around being grateful and leaning into
(25:05):
the good things for me is just so powerful. Yeah,
just really realizing you have to kind of take life
and really grab it and squeeze everything good it gives
you because you just don't know what's around the corner.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And obviously being able to sort of get to.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
This place is just so much because of the extraordinary
people had around me who really helped me up through
the worst of that period and then sort of helped
me find my feet again through that.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think you have such extraordinary strength, and I've shown that,
I mean many many times. But most people, when they
have circumnavigated the world solo at such a young age,
probably think they've had their fair share of challenge and
that there might not be no another.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Huge, extraordinary pivot around the corner.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Do you have any advice for the fact that a
pivot does sometimes involve grieving the loss of expectations, grieving
the loss of a direction you thought you'd have and
that you can't get back, because that's I mean something
lots of people face in different forms.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and that was very significant. That was such
a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
As grieving at the future that I just, you know,
in hindsight obviously just naively assumed because at that age
and having not really experienced a lot of loss, I
just I didn't know that what sort of thing was
kind of possible, which is very lucky and naive. But yeah,
in terms of advice, I don't know. I mean, there's
I know, other things that worked for me. Yeah, I
(26:38):
suppose there's that the things around you, letting yourself feel
good stuff and enjoy you when you can, obviously, but
it was just in terms of, yeah, that expectation around
the future, it was a complete rebuilding and to slowly
kind of put things back in place, and you know,
early days it was kind of quite short term to
give myself short term things to look forward to, and goodness,
(27:00):
my siblings were amazing with putting a lot of good
holidays in the plan and things I realized I realize now.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
But then go, oh, actually what's important and sort of
you know, shorter term and then that gradually built back
to longer.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I think one thing that was also just really extraordinary
for me is that I was so lucky that I
was a place where I was really enjoying my work.
So I had this ability to kind of step back
in and treat work as this helpful thing, which is
kind of an It was just great and that gave me,
I suppose, some stability and kind of routine through the
(27:35):
kind of period where I was reorientating, because it really
was like in sailing, we probably another other kind of
sports and things too, if this idea of calibrating a compass,
and for me, that is what it felt like.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It was just like I've got to re.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Establish all these connections and sensor direction and relationships in
the world.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Which is a beautiful way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And I think it, you know, the pain of grief
and loss is something that perhaps from the outside before
you've experienced it, you do look at it as something
that you can come through and that can kind of
get better. And I think it's something that doesn't go away.
It's just something that you learned to work through or
to work with. How did you give yourself grace for
(28:17):
how long it might take Oh.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Gosh, that cliche that your heart getting stronger, like the
grief doesn't change, it's still there, but you know, your
heart growing around that is so true and gosh, it's
extraordinary how strong.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Your heart can grow. I'm not sure I gave myself
like I didn't think.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Much in terms of timelines and things, I suppose, but
one thing I certainly did was kind of give myself
the grace just to I don't know, like I not
not care. I still cared deeply, but just oh, I
didn't take things seriously and I didn't put the pressure on,
and I just felt like I had no energy to
be anything other than just the honest raw self. That
(28:57):
was so actually incredibly liberating, Like I don't have energy
for kind of a mask and pretending to be this
polished professional.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yes, I'm just gonna be me. Yeah, it turns out
that's actually really great.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
That's so I feel like it's such a well adjusted
human being. And you've done all this like decades before.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Most people ever have.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
To have this depth of emotional resilience, but you seem
so good at it.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, I mean it comes with the very very messy
but yeah, no, highly highly recommend that I just like,
completely take the pressure off yourself. Do not go around
for pretending to be okay, yeah, and to be someone
you're not.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
It's just too much entity.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, and I think that is something that people do
in any form of challenging time is definitely masked. And
there's something about the expectation of stoicism as well. I
think maybe it's cultural that we're quite like Su'll be right,
and I think that that sometimes we do need to
give ourselves a little bit more. Yeah, liberty, as you said,
freedom to feel what we feel and to take some time.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, absolutely, because I mean I do look back at
that period and I talked about work being such a
positive thing, but I was also working part time and yeah,
I had that time to grieve as well, and that
was obviously a big part of being able to cope
in a constructive way.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah. Well, I mean you are again. I thought you
were my hero before, but you are. You are truly
one of the strongest people I think any of us
have ever come across. Now.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I mean, I've loved reading about the journey that you
have turned your MBA into because, as you mentioned, you
had a big outlet in your work. Can you explain
to anyone who hasn't kept up what you now do,
because it does seem a little bit incongruous for someone
who spent so much time out on the open waters to.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Now be in an office. Yeah, those people in corporate. Yeah,
it's been seven and a half years.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Why no, right, which is yeah, I didn't really imagine
as Yeah, started at Deloitte seven a half years ago,
so in human capital consulting, so HR type consulting, and
these days, as the rest of the world is, I
suppose is very focused on HR technology and I love it.
I'm this widow who loves my job. Of course, it's
(31:25):
tough at times, and you know, I don't always loves
that the hours are quite as you know, as long
as would be ideal, but genuinely enjoy it. And I
suppose all those years ago, seven and a half years ago,
did come to it with this kind of real drive
to want to have something that was separate from that
sixteen year old me. I think I was, particularly at
(31:46):
that point going through a real period of being pretty.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Over myself and my own story.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Still am to be clear, really got you've heard it too,
but you've spoken about it, so yeah, it's fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Every time I hear it. I don't think we'll ever
get sick of it. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
It's like, honestly, it's like you pull hairs out of
my head or something. It's like splitcher, Like, oh, but
I've got a lot better at just kind of embracing that.
But yeah, that's That's one of the things I think
A Camp's death has also really taught me.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Is just like, get out of your own way.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Just tell people the stories they want to hear. And
it's not actually about me. It's let other people enjoy it.
So I, you know, do speak a lot. I still
do a lot of corporate speaking, and I just go there.
I'm so privileged to have the attention of you know,
sometimes hundreds of people. It's not about you just because
you don't want to tell the same old story, like
(32:40):
they actually want that classic the good story about the
boat rolling upside now, and.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So yeah, like just give it to them. Just please
the people. You actually, you know, it's about the thing.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
You're so privileged to have these people's time and attention.
Oh that's a beautiful way to see it.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
But I mean it is also incredible to see that
you have found such a different chapter and that you
are loving it so much because it does seem not
the direction I think we would expect when you do
think of a sailor out on the open water.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So what does your week look like now?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And are you getting out on the water Because another
thing that I loved in I think it was Australian
story that was talking about that sort of a couple
of years wading your way through the grief, was that
it was honoring Cam to keep sailing and that the
whole team kind of felt that way.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, yeah, gush, I'm so so lucky the group of
friends we have, and yeah, sailing obviously such a big
part of all our lives and day to day these
days it's often weekends racing and then in summer twilight
sailing on a Thursday night. So yeah, it's gorgeous and
you know it's actually not kind of there's no big
dramatic adventures or anything too serious on the cars right now,
(33:55):
but life revolves around Thursday night sailing. I'm very serious
about a casual sale. You take your hobbies very seriously,
So yeah, no, love it more than ever.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Own kind of life does revolve around it.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
But yeah, obviously I'm not spending all day every day
doing it anymore exactly, but I think that's a really
for me right now. It's a really wonderful, wonderful way
to enjoy sailing yeah around the busyness of other aspects
of life, and yeah, in terms of what a week
looks like, they're not often the same, which is probably
(34:29):
a big part of what I'm enjoying it for. And
you know, I do find myself sort of getting to
fly off to some pretty amazing parts of the world
to speak.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
And then the weeks I actually really enjoy.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
I just week at home, in the in the office,
I'm formally four days, which to me really is incredible.
I think it means that I come in I get
just as much done as I would have full time.
But that bit of flexibility is just magic, that bit
of variety for anyone who possibly can.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I know it's not possible for a.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Lot of people, but if you can get to those
four days, it's just just an incredible thing too.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I think it's a big part of why I love work.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Too, and I love the idea that it's often the
things that are the opposite of your life or that
are so unrelated to it that balance often makes you
so much better at what you do. So, I mean,
you've completely changed tack on your life by taking on
a corporate role. And obviously it has been a big
chapter already, but you've done it so many times now
for someone who's just in their very early thirties, for
(35:24):
anyone else who is perhaps scared to take such big leaps.
I think it seems to feel really natural for you,
But I think the average person is quite overcome by
fear when they step into a new environment or a
foreign environment like an office if you've never.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Worked in one before.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What is that initial phase like for you of a
pivot and how are you adapting so effortlessly into completely
new environments?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Oh? And it was pretty bad in my early weeks. Yeah,
was it rough? Is it like a rough adjustment?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Do you have kind of a bumpy start or do
you just are you just like so adaptable that it's.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Not No, I mean it's yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I've done so many different things up until that point,
worked a lot with the corporate world, but this was
the first real experience in it. And when I say
it was bad, I'm particularly thinking how greatly.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I am to the.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
People who were so generous in those first weeks and months.
But yeah, I mean I think I suppose everything through life.
It's kind of, in a way, the first few weeks
of a sea voyage often going to be very tough,
especially solo one. You might be kind of a bit
seasick and kind of really getting your sea legs, getting
used to sort of bad sleep cycles, and then actually
(36:35):
learning to get enough sleep, and obviously the whole being
alone thing and adjusting to that as well. So I
think I went into the voyage being very prepared for
the first kind of months to be kind of grim
and to.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Just sort of mentally slog it out. And I think
I probably did.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Approach, you know, starting at Deloitte with that same mentality
of that it's going to be a tough first few months,
you know, that adjustments, just all the things there learning
and just kind of the important thing there is it's
going to get better, because yeah, it is tough right now,
but that doesn't mean it's going to be always this tough.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I love that expect the discomfort and know that it's
a process and then it's.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Not such a surprise.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, Because I think they judge really quickly as well,
Like if we feel a little bit uncomfortable, it's like, well,
I hate this or I'm not built for this, and
it's like, no, you're just doing something new. Give it
a minute before you judge exactly. Judge obviously, but let
that adjustment happen first. Do you foresee any other big pivots?
(37:36):
Like it sort of looks like your life has gone
in these big chapters.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Are you looking for new chapters? Is that how?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Or are you kind of passive and you wait until
a new chapter falls upon your.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Lap, like I think they'll be wrong? Do you want? Maybe? Maybe?
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (37:52):
The funny thing is right, there's so many people who talk,
you know, especially my circles and sailors and things, talk
about dream about heading off and sailing the world, you know,
the Pacific and how do you flat down?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And like I did that. I'm like, no, I love life.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I like the routines and the privilege of, like, you know,
being around friends and family and things.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
There's so many good things in life that it's like
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Throw it all away and go off sailing in the
tropics or something that's supposed to be the idyhill and
they're all striving for like yeah, no, so right now,
very content, more than enough variety in life, all sorts
of new and beautiful things, and just enjoying that. Who
knows what the future holds, but I'm not worrying aheads
too much. But they do often say, you know, you
(38:34):
meant to create a life that you don't want to
run away from.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Like the reason why people are.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Hanging out for the holidays is usually because they're not
as happy in what they're doing. And I love that
you've built a life for yourself that you love and
that you're content with. But I mean, in that sense
and in many senses, you are, as I mentioned at
the beginning, my hero. I think you famously like you're
often quoted as saying this to the then Prime Minister
Kevin Rudd, that you don't consider yourself a hero, that
(39:00):
you're an ordinary girl who just believed in her dream.
You've just got to have a dream, believe in it
and work hard.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
That's perfect for an adult, little and a teenager. Is
that still the ideology that you live by?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, yeah, it is, yeah, And I mean, of course
there's the layers of adult realism that.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Come as well layers of reality, like, yeah, of course I.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Do realize obviously there's a degree of privilege I was,
you know, not like the whole voyage was not financially
possible because my parents or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
It was sponsors and other amazing people.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
But obviously there was still some privilege that enabled me
to you know, be int a yacht club in the
first place and things like that. So I definitely recognize
that that, and then I also recognize I suppose that, yeah,
anything's possible, but it's more the question of, but are
you willing to actually sacrifice what it do'll take to
get there? Yeah, And like a lot of the time
that answers no. And that's fair because you know, so
(39:58):
I definitely still still believe in that. It's not to
say it's easy, that's for sure. It is pretty extraordinary
what we can do. Will you certainly don't shy away
from a challenge. But it is interesting then that you
mentioned the financial side of things, because I also think
that's something that we skate over a lot when we're
talking about big dreams and big life pivots.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Can you talk a bit about.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
The financial side of becoming an author and doing the
speaking gigs.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Is it financially viable?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Because I know that a lot of the time writing
books seems a lot more lucrative than perhaps it is.
How does the money side work out for you?
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I mean the first book around the Voyage was incredible
because the publisher was as much a sponsor of.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
The voyage than anything.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
So that was an amazing and probably quite a unique
experience in that regard. But then yeah, my second book,
novel for young adults, was definitely a process of realizing, Wow,
this is an amazing thing to do, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Actually a steady, solid career. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, Like I think it's a career that I enjoy,
but it's obviously also some stability, and that's a wonderful
thing too to pay boat bills.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And you're juggling so many different things, so I mean
it's wonderful, as you said, the diversity that you have.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
How do you juggle it energy wise or chaotically? And
this is probably an area of life I should.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I've just like, how are you not chronically burnt out
from all the things that you're doing? And have you
learnt through from such a young age taking on so
many high profile big things.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
How do you self manage if you do it all?
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, because I certainly don't thinking about what my sister
or like mum or something would.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I would say, you hear me talking.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
About this because I think they often you know, and
I suppose they see the side to me where I
turn up back at their place in it in a
bit of a pape. You know, that's what happened, you know,
where you've given every last bit.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Of energy and you're kind of a mess.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
So that's probably, yeah, an area for improvement in terms
of not just kind of giving it everything and then
quite of falling apart.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Ih.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, the crash and burn. I mean it's effective sometimes
you get a lot done. And writing that adrenaline is
an amazing thing. Was also kind of a coping strategy
for a while too, so kind of had its place.
But that's probably something I should spend some more time
working on and have a little bit too, I think
in terms of yeah, wellness, etcetera.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Well, just as a last question to finish up, there's
a saying that I always come back to, which is
the idea that we can only ever connect the dots
looking back, and that they do often connect in such
a beautiful, sometimes unexpected way when you look back at
all the various experiences that you've had and are still having.
I think another thing about pivoting is that the things
(42:52):
you do in life often set you up really well
for the things that you do next, even if they
don't relate.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Is there anything from sailing.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
That you've acquired, or actually from any of your experiences
that make you really great at what you do now?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I mean there is obviously something and the kind of
sheer resilience like getting going actually setbacks, right, that's they're great.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, I think you got really good at those really young.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yeah. Just remember that little debacle with the ship where
it Yeah, like that's the ultimate example of your mast
was crushed in half before you started real real bad,
like sort of global media storm situation, real grim. But
it's pretty incredible to look back on that and go,
you got through that.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, you can get through this as well. Yeah, so
things you survive can be quite powerful.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
But yeah, there's loads of things that have been transferable.
Like you know, it was an uncle who taught me
the idea of a gaunt chart and project management as
this fifteen year old, and like obviously that's just kind
of so fundamental to work in things these days. So
there are' concepts that have been really powerful and useful
throughout for me, Yeah, and then some of those mental fools,
(44:06):
And I think for me probably the thing that's remained
consistently useful is kind of this weird ability to sort
of simplify a lot of the time, which probably is
in large part thanks to being quite dyslexic. That's something
I've always really needed to do, and it actually it's
proved to be what I feel like is probably the
thing I bring most useful to work these days. In
this really complex environment and fast moving world.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I've just got to simplify things, And turns out a
lot of other people want that too, so it's actually
really useful.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Well that is, I mean, an incredibly useful piece of
advice to finish on because I think, as I said before,
we over complicate things and overthink things all the time
so often get in our own way, and to be
able to simplify things is truly a valuable, invaluable actually
life skill, just as you are a truly extraordinary walking
(44:58):
life skill and incredible person. So thank you so much
for sharing so generously today. It's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
pivot Club. There'll be a new app dropping next week,
so make sure you hit follow wherever you're listening so.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
You don't miss it.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
And if you love the show, please tell a friend
or give it a rating and a review in your
podcast app. It means the world and it really is
the best way to help us spread the word. This
episode of pivot Club was produced by Sally Best with
audio production by Jacob Brownd. The executive producer is Courtney Ammenhauser.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
See you next time. Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners
of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to a Mother and Mere podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Have you ever been deep into a life you've spent
years building, only to have this nagging feeling that it's
just not right anymore, That feeling when you look at
the path you're on and say, this isn't where or
who I'm meant to be. This is Pivot Club, and
I'm your host. Sarah Davidson, a fellow member of the
Pivot Club.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
In a past life, I was an m and a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I'd done the exams, I'd ticked all the boxes, and
then I decided to change course completely and run my
own business matcha Maiden. That one decision put me on
a totally new path as an entrepreneur, content creator, and
podcast host. But today isn't about my story. It's about
someone who didn't just wonder what life would be like
if they changed course. It's about someone who actually did it.
(01:02):
Here we get inside those moments of rewriting history and
unpacking professional plot twists. So let's dive into their story
of courage, of uncertainty, and of what happens when you decide.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
To join the Pivot Club.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
You will know today's guest as National Treasure Jessica Watson.
We all watched, holding our breath as she became the
youngest person to sale solo, NonStop and unassisted around the world.
She was sixteen, and when she returned, we all asked,
what's next. The unspoken expectation was more, more adventure, more
(01:38):
record breaking, something bigger and more dramatic. But Jessica's biggest
pivot wasn't what any of us expected. On paper, her
next steps look almost ordinary. She finished school, went to UNI,
did an MBA, and got a corporate job, and for
the last seven and a half years she's been building
a career as a management consultant.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
And that's the pivot we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
What happens when you achieved the biggest stream of your
life before you were even legally eligible to vote. How
do you build an identity separate from the one thing
everyone knows you for? And how do you find genuine
fulfillment in the perceived ordinary in an office, in a
routine when the world expects you to be extraordinary. Twenty
four to seven years after her voyage, jess faced a
(02:24):
challenge far greater than any storm at sea, the sudden,
catastrophic loss of her long term partner Can that she
says was her real pivot. Jess's story is a profound
reminder that sometimes the bravest thing you can do isn't
to sail around the world, but to find joy in
a quiet life right where you are.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Jess, Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
It is so surreal to be sitting in front of
what has been You know, you're a national treasure, You're
Australia's sweetheart, and I've followed your journey for so long,
so it is a true privilege to be sitting with
you today.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That's very generous, and in your sailor stripes as well,
which is very very special for the occasion, of course,
it's pretty standard. Well, of course we are here today
to talk about the power of the pivot. And I
feel like before you even turned eighteen, you had been
through more pivots than most of us have or we'll
have in a lifetime. But I think it makes sense
(03:24):
to maybe go back to the very beginning to your
past life and have a little look at how it
all began. So I think you've talked about growing up
really outdoorsy, which does make sense. Who introduced you to
sailing and tell us about your life growing up.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It was a family thing, I suppose.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I mean, we'd always spent our holidays and weekends doors
and camping, and then as an eight year old, it
was actually for my brother's birthday that we were sent
down to the local yacht club as a sort of
present for him. And it was then my older sister
who really took to it, so she became a great sailor,
loved it, and you know, me and my brother and
(04:06):
little sister were kind of following along a.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Little bit reluctantly.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Actually to start with, I found it quite scary and intimidating,
No way scary, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was not the confident,
kind of outgoing kid with all the courage you'd expect.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Gosh, that is so fascinating because now I look at
you and think, truly you are just unstoppable. And it's
fascinating to me that you began scared of the thing
that you embraced.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And so it was only at.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Twelve years old when you first decided that you would
embrace sailing and.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Become the youngest person to sail around the world.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
How did you go from scared of being on the
water to such a huge, ambitious goal.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
I mean, there were lots of things happening in the background,
right in terms of you know, as a family, we'd
really taken to sailing. We were spending our weekends at
a yacht club and we actually went on to live
on a boat for a number of years.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
So we were sort of very much.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Surrounded by this world and perhaps it was having more
of an influence on me than I necessarily realized for
a while there. And then, of all things, it was
a bedtime story that mum read to me about Jesse Martin,
who sailed around the world aged eighteen, another young Australian
and Victorian, and that.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Book just sort of didle the damage for me to
just put this fling into the CIA exactly. You be
careful what you read your kids.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
I'm always telling parents, and you know, be careful of
telling them you can do anything you set your.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Mind too, because you know that's what they might go
and do it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
He told me, and look what happened, and was like, oh, okay,
maybe not that, but yeah, to your point, how do
you go from that scared, fearful girl to someone who
wants to sail around the world?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
And goes on to do that.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Well, the funny thing was, I probably wasn't a confident
person still when I decided I wanted to do it, it
was actually kind of consciously going, well, if.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I want to do that, I need to change who
I am.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I can't be this fearful, timid kid who falls apart
as soon as the weather turns a bit bad and
it's a bit scary. So it was actually a very
conscious choice to go, all right, I've got to change,
you know, start pretending, start kind of faking it, and
then actually realizing, well, like, do have the experience and
I can do this, and.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Actually it's scary, but it's you know, manageable.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So yeah, it was actually kind of the reverse of
what you might imagine.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, I actually think that's really powerful for our listeners
that we do really silo ourselves and think I'm a
shy kid, or I don't like public speaking, or you know,
I'm really introverted, and I don't think we believe you
can decide to change. But you're an incredible example of
at such a young age, just deciding actually that's what
I need to be.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I'll be it. Yeah, I mean, oh gosh, I mean.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
I think, like the one thing about me, I love
to simplify things. And if you go we'll work backwards.
You know, what are the things you've got to do
to make this thing possible? And if one of those
things is that you know, you've got to be a
slightly more courageous person, then it's not not to say
it's easy.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, if you really want to do something, you know,
who do you need to be to do that?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And obviously I think a lot of people at twelve
do come out with these big exciting dreams like become
an astronaut or you know, fly to the moon, and
not many of us actually go ahead and do it.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Let alone. Again, as I mentioned before, they're eighteen.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And yet you actually did go on to spend two
hundred and ten days at sea and grew up very
very quickly.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
A massive challenge. How did you deal with that growth?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
I mean, I can't actually fathom a twelve to sixteen
year old having the mental strength to even put together
this plan.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
How did you do that? I would have growl inside
your brain. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Maybe you'll discover some screws loose going to get a
longest vine.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah. It is really interesting because quite often I kind
of feel like I get kind of stuck in these
conversations where some people get it and some people, you know,
maybe the parents or something, and they just cannot understand it.
And I think there are some kids that maybe are
really driven and clear on what they want to do
at a young age. I mean, look at the incredible
amount of athletes who are so focused from a young age.
(08:21):
And then there's others who aren't.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
And that's great, you know, be that kid to have
a childhood heart and child like please be care exactly,
But there are those examples of kids who and some
people kind of go, oh, yeah, I can.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I know a kid like that who was really determined
and clear on what they wanted to do from an
early age. And for whatever reason that was, that was me,
and you know that's why my parents reluctantly went along
with it. And obviously a lot of other people became
part of it along the way, and they think snowball.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, like what they do for you, Yeah, not for
every kid. But what was really wonderful and why I
very much feel privileged to be sitting with you today
is that I did follow along very much. Most of
Australia follow it along, watching you go from sort of
expressing this stream and having you know your training, sales
and getting prepared to then spending that enormous amount of
(09:16):
time out in open water and not just that but
on your own at an age where a lot of
us aren't used to solitude and maybe don't have the
sort of mental power to sit in that.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
What was that like for you?
Speaker 2 (09:33):
And then also when you came back going straight into
the opposite.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yes, in a big way, and you know to your
early point about that growth and how do you prepare
for something like that? Well, actually I feel like mentally
had done it before setting off, because really so much
of it was visualizing and imagining what it's.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Going to be like, do I really want to do that?
How's that going to feel?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
So getting out there was almost a bit of a
case of okay, time to get.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
On with it.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
A lot of the growth and learning I think had
actually come beforehand, because obviously it was years of preparation too,
and so much of that with a huge, amazing team
of people. That's really I think the bigger piece of
growth than in a way the voyage itself. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, maybe maybe we're not all.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Capable of spending childred and ten days alone. It's supposed
to be.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
It's supposed to be this terrible thing when we lock
people up, But when you want to do it, you've
got a purpose.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
You don't feel alone.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's that classic kind of idea of you know, you
can feel alone in a crowd of people.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I did not feel lonely out there.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
I felt like I was part of a team of people,
and I felt connected with people all around the world
following the trip.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
And yeah, just I don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Humans are incredibly adaptable, and for me it's maybe a
bit of a case of don't overthinking.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah, I mean, they truly are adaptable.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
And that was one of the incredible things about watching
you was going from watching you sit on this incredibly
peaceful water and look out and just marvel at the
beauty of the environment at an age where most of
us are sort of watching TV and not really paying
much attention to the beauty the environment. But then you know,
a couple of weeks later, in the throes of the
wilder storm, genuinely wondering whether you might make it through,
(11:15):
and again at such a young age facing that kind
of fear. Were there moments where you were like, I
can't do this and how do you pivot?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
In those moments?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
There were those moments though, the wondering whether like how
my boat and I going to sort of withstand the
force of what we were experiencing in terms of you know,
waves and knockdowns, the boat being rolled upside down.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So yeah, there were There was really probably only.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
The worst storm where there was a period of hours
where it was really hard to comprehend how we could survive.
But my head was probably quite blank in those few hours.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
It was that was good.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
It was it was the time after that where I
was really able to kind of comprehend how how Diocee was.
But in terms of a moment of kind of I've
had enough, And I think that was so funny when
I was working with that on the movie, they really
wanted me to have had this moment right because it
would have just been passed.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Such good today and you need that.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Clear distinct moment where you're like gonna give up and
what was that thing that kept you going?
Speaker 1 (12:19):
And they really there really wasn't.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It's not to say it was incredibly hard I wasn't
really miserable and you know, good old crying sessions and
all that sort of messy stuff, and felt miserable, but
there were a lot of positive kind of strategies for
coping and I got better at it. And also, when
it really comes down to it, I didn't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, so you had to keep going. So people ask
for advice on really li inst and.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Stuff, and it's like, like, please, please, like balance this
advice with the good things where you do need to
look after yourself and rest.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
When you can and all of those things.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
But put yourself in a situation where the easiest thing
to do or the only thing to do, is to
keep going, and believe it or not, you'll probably keep going.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Oh my goodness, And it really does seem like you
have continued to do that. You have just kept on
keeping on and like you said, been so incredibly adaptable,
which makes you such an amazing candidate for this podcast.
You are literally a walking pivot. And I mean, if
anyone hasn't I think most of ISRAELI probably has. But
if anyone hasn't engaged with the details of your incredible journey,
(13:23):
I could watch and listen, you know, over and over again.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So please do go back and revisit that.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
What I'm fascinated to talk to you about is really
that kind of messy middle, which is what came next,
Because I think what happens when we set these huge goals,
especially ones that are kind of unlikely or against some
serious odds that we might achieve them.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Is it then when you do, like what comes next?
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Who are you when your identity isn't sailing around the
world or when it is sailing around the world and
suddenly you've got this media scrum at you that you
didn't necessarily sign up for.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
It was like, you know, what's next? What are you
going to do better that? And it's like, oh, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
We're one play that we.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Can second navigate, you have a driver's license, you know
some things like that. Yeah, so it was it was funny,
but there really was that. And and the thing is
about this what's next and what are you going to
do to better that? Is it's we want something dramatic
and like, you know, media worthy. It wasn't kind of
a people weren't really that enthusiastic when they're like, okay,
(14:38):
you're going to go finish Rechoo and yeah, you want
to go study what like? That's we wanted something dramatic
and spectacular. That's the sense I had. And it was
obviously then really interesting to kind of navigate what do
I really want to do compared to what what do
other people want for me? In a way though, I
(14:58):
was so maybe it was lucky that I had this
whirl and incredible couple of years of book tours all
around the world young Australian in the year and what
an humbling, extraordinary experience that was, you know, to actually
win that against finalists who are doing these incredibly selfless,
amazing things and spend time with.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
People like that.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
So there was these couple of years of just extraordinary
things that probably did give me a bit of a
period to kind of try things, to be very busy
and enjoy a lot of things before I really had
to kind of go what do I actually want to
do next?
Speaker 2 (15:33):
And it's really interesting because I think most people's pathways,
and particularly in that kind of chapter of your life,
are like the decisions we make are equal parts being
influenced by societal expectations or family or other people's you know,
external factors. And then half of that is also what
do I want to do? And I think the rest
(15:54):
of your life really is the balance of that. And
for that first two years it was on such a high.
Did you ever have a bit of a come down
when you suddenly weren't doing the big, you know, record
breaking thing or did you seek something quieter?
Speaker 1 (16:12):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
And it is interesting because so many other athletes and
fellow adventurers we've kind of done similar things, have experienced that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But I really didn't. Wow.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I think it was just so extraordinary, the world wind
of experience that got to be part of. And then
kind of quite quickly jumping into things like a youth
and Hobat campaign and some pretty big things like that
that were really challenging me in new and different ways
quite quickly was probably good.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
There's probably a few points through that where I was
probably a bit like I look.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Back now and realize it was probably a bit of
kind of burnout from them the pace of it all.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
But it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
It really wasn't that kind of moment that I think
a lot of people experience.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
If anything, it was kind of later when.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
I realized, oh, I've got to keep putting challenges in
front of myself and keep having things that are going
to keep me fulfilled. And that's kind of the point
where I started looking to start and to going, oh
what snakes? Well, actually I think I do want to
go back to school.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Yeah, which is so interesting because you're right, so many
people who are adventurers as their sort of default title
do live off the adrenaline of continuing on that pathway
and do have a bit of a coutdown when they
reach that goal and then wait for the next thing.
When you were sort of planning what the other avenues
were and then you kind of were thrust into the
(17:34):
spotlight but also in the background, shying away from fame
and working out what you wanted. How did you work
that out? Did you sit down? Did you ask people?
Did you get any therapy? Like did you have a
careers counselor no, there's no.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Careers counselor no?
Speaker 3 (17:49):
No, actually there was no yeah kind of psych at
that point in life either. I mean, I was definitely
trial and error. I think was probably one of my
bigger methods. Boy's found that fairly effective.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
It's a great one. Yeah. I love that you don't
overthink it. Yeah, but no, I do.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I do actually recognize that I'm, for whatever reason, I'm
quite lucky, and that I've never struggled with kind of indecision.
I've probably more thrown myself into everything and gone, oh
my gosh.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Now, how.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Do I keep up so lucky in that regard, because
I do see a lot of people really struggle with that.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You know, what do I do?
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Then?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Obviously that's for me.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
It was a place of real privilege that I had
an incredible, you know, number of different directions I could
have taken life and career as well.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Can you give us a.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Bit of an overview of the timeline of your education
after the voyage and how it all kind of unraveled.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, the timeline was interesting.
Speaker 3 (18:44):
Probably wasn't too long after getting back that I did
start this sort of night school thing.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Got a few subjects done, cut a few corners in
all honesty.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
But I certainly didn't kind of get the perfect grades
and do it the way you're supposed to.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
But I kind of wanted to do.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Something that represented finishing school for me. Yeah, if it
wasn't really required. So it was actually probably within six
months or something where I'd kind of gone and done that,
you know, At the same time as the book was
being written and all these other things as well, and
then after that it would have been a good year
maybe if things like Youth Sidney Hobalt, which was extraordinary
learning in terms of leadership and other skill sets. And
(19:25):
after that I found that way to university, possibly also
large part because it's what friends around me were.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Doing, influenced in a good way.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
Yeah, I think what I found with university was that
I was actually really enjoying it. I think another thing
that influenced that was being a youth representative of the
in that Nations World Food Program and getting to see
some extraordinary but very challenged parts of the world, and
you know, talking to young people who were not much
younger than me and how much education meant to them
and how much would have meant to them to be
(19:57):
able to continue and kind of yeah, a bit of
a sort of slap in the face in terms of
wake up call of what apprivileged education was. So so yeah,
I did a project management to ployer and then I
suppose got to the end of the study and kind
of went, well, I'm I'm really enjoying this and I
do want to keep challenging myself in this regard, so
ended up going down the path of doing an MBA
(20:17):
as well, which I really thoroughly enjoyed, kind of again
quite a general way to study, which was really interesting
to me to be able to study a bit of everything.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
So I think that there are these other sort of
pathways that may work better for some people. I love
that reminder because I do think that we have this
view of what's the conventional way to get into UNI
or to do a certain pathway, and then once you've
missed that, I think people self select themselves out of
it because they're worried that they can't keep up, or
(20:48):
they won't know what to do, or they've been out
of the game for so long. And I mean, you're
such an amazing example that it's not their way at all.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Absolutely not. You seem like an amazing advocate for doing
things slightly differently. Yeah. Probably.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
I think going back to education is already quite overwhelming
when you've had some time away from it, but experiencing
dyslexia can often add another layer of apprehension or challenge
or maybe fear for some people, particularly for some of
our listeners who might be experiencing dyslexor as well. Was
that how it sort of manifested for you or do
(21:24):
you have any tips that have helped you along the
way to manage it or to even you know, quell
the fear that you have going back into the education system.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
I think luckily I found the ability to kind of
study in your own ways, and the great tools out
there to help meant that it was fairly easy through study.
I think it's a really cool.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Thing to come back to higher education kind of on
your own terms, you know, studying because you want to.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, that initial fear and that kind of.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Desire to prove myself that I could do this was
quite significant and very significant then going into a career,
and that was something I was very kind of weary
of and I wasn't quite sure how it was going
to work, you know, because my colleagues are incredibly bright people,
and then you know there's a little old dyslexic me.
You didn't really finish school, and I suppose I think
(22:18):
I knew it a little bit to start with, by
I wish I'd got this sooner. And you see this
with a lot of people, you know, starting out in
anything in terms of a career or a job that
do back what you do have in terms of your
different experiences and you can bring to the table. And
for me, you know, I probably should have even sooner
kind of trusted myself in terms of my experience, and
you know, now I'm at this amazing place where I
(22:40):
really don't care about my dyslexingness and sometimes the ridiculous
spelling errors and kind of things.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
That do happen.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
And you had the fear of taking notes in front
of people in the early days and so significant, but
now I'm like, I really don't care because I really
trust what I have to bring to the table. And yeah,
of course there's probably a bit of an element of
credibility that might be undermined if if you can't you
write some fairly basic works. But at the same time,
(23:09):
there's such great technology and ways around it these days,
and I just really have kind of confidence and what
I can bring and what I can bring because of.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Being dyslexic as well.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Well.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
I definitely want to chat about what that incredible basis
now in your MBA has done for you. And again
another huge pivot, but still while we're in this messy middle,
another major major life change that has happened to you,
and that perhaps people who followed you earlier on and
haven't caught up might not know about. And that is
the loss of your long term partner, Cam, which was
(23:42):
obviously a huge shock, quite out of the blue. He
passed away from a catastrophic stroke at the age of
twenty nine, which is just so young and so young
for you as well in your life after ten years
together adventuring. That's a life pivot I don't think many
people ever have to face. Can you talk to us
a bit about that redirection in your life?
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Yeah, it's really really significant, and it's kind of crazy
for me to obviously talk about life pivots without like
acknowledging that this is the biggest of them all and
far more significant to me than obviously the sailing around
the world thing that everyone.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Knows me for.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
But yeah, you know, we had that ten years together
and had just assumed that there was the future forever.
So that was the sort of life plan and pathway,
and the extent to which that has shaped me is
just extraordinary. Obviously shaped me in terms of who I
was and growing up together, but also I suppose that
(24:40):
period of grief and learning to cope through that has
really really shaped who I am today and in quite
an incredible way. I would never have imagined it. And
there's no silver lining or anything like that. There's absolutely
nothing that sort of makes it okay in the way.
But gosh, that cliche around being grateful and leaning into
(25:05):
the good things for me is just so powerful. Yeah,
just really realizing you have to kind of take life
and really grab it and squeeze everything good it gives
you because you just don't know what's around the corner.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
And obviously being able to sort of get to.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
This place is just so much because of the extraordinary
people had around me who really helped me up through
the worst of that period and then sort of helped
me find my feet again through that.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I think you have such extraordinary strength, and I've shown that,
I mean many many times. But most people, when they
have circumnavigated the world solo at such a young age,
probably think they've had their fair share of challenge and
that there might not be no another.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Huge, extraordinary pivot around the corner.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Do you have any advice for the fact that a
pivot does sometimes involve grieving the loss of expectations, grieving
the loss of a direction you thought you'd have and
that you can't get back, because that's I mean something
lots of people face in different forms.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, absolutely, and that was very significant. That was such
a big part of it.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
As grieving at the future that I just, you know,
in hindsight obviously just naively assumed because at that age
and having not really experienced a lot of loss, I
just I didn't know that what sort of thing was
kind of possible, which is very lucky and naive. But yeah,
in terms of advice, I don't know. I mean, there's
I know, other things that worked for me. Yeah, I
(26:38):
suppose there's that the things around you, letting yourself feel
good stuff and enjoy you when you can, obviously, but
it was just in terms of, yeah, that expectation around
the future, it was a complete rebuilding and to slowly
kind of put things back in place, and you know,
early days it was kind of quite short term to
give myself short term things to look forward to, and goodness,
(27:00):
my siblings were amazing with putting a lot of good
holidays in the plan and things I realized I realize now.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
But then go, oh, actually what's important and sort of
you know, shorter term and then that gradually built back
to longer.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
I think one thing that was also just really extraordinary
for me is that I was so lucky that I
was a place where I was really enjoying my work.
So I had this ability to kind of step back
in and treat work as this helpful thing, which is
kind of an It was just great and that gave me,
I suppose, some stability and kind of routine through the
(27:35):
kind of period where I was reorientating, because it really
was like in sailing, we probably another other kind of
sports and things too, if this idea of calibrating a compass,
and for me, that is what it felt like.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
It was just like I've got to re.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Establish all these connections and sensor direction and relationships in
the world.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Which is a beautiful way to look at it.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And I think it, you know, the pain of grief
and loss is something that perhaps from the outside before
you've experienced it, you do look at it as something
that you can come through and that can kind of
get better. And I think it's something that doesn't go away.
It's just something that you learned to work through or
to work with. How did you give yourself grace for
(28:17):
how long it might take Oh.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Gosh, that cliche that your heart getting stronger, like the
grief doesn't change, it's still there, but you know, your
heart growing around that is so true and gosh, it's
extraordinary how strong.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Your heart can grow. I'm not sure I gave myself
like I didn't think.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Much in terms of timelines and things, I suppose, but
one thing I certainly did was kind of give myself
the grace just to I don't know, like I not
not care. I still cared deeply, but just oh, I
didn't take things seriously and I didn't put the pressure on,
and I just felt like I had no energy to
be anything other than just the honest raw self. That
(28:57):
was so actually incredibly liberating, Like I don't have energy
for kind of a mask and pretending to be this
polished professional.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yes, I'm just gonna be me. Yeah, it turns out
that's actually really great.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
That's so I feel like it's such a well adjusted
human being. And you've done all this like decades before.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Most people ever have.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
To have this depth of emotional resilience, but you seem
so good at it.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, I mean it comes with the very very messy
but yeah, no, highly highly recommend that I just like,
completely take the pressure off yourself. Do not go around
for pretending to be okay, yeah, and to be someone
you're not.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
It's just too much entity.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, and I think that is something that people do
in any form of challenging time is definitely masked. And
there's something about the expectation of stoicism as well. I
think maybe it's cultural that we're quite like Su'll be right,
and I think that that sometimes we do need to
give ourselves a little bit more. Yeah, liberty, as you said,
freedom to feel what we feel and to take some time.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Yeah, absolutely, because I mean I do look back at
that period and I talked about work being such a
positive thing, but I was also working part time and yeah,
I had that time to grieve as well, and that
was obviously a big part of being able to cope
in a constructive way.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah. Well, I mean you are again. I thought you
were my hero before, but you are. You are truly
one of the strongest people I think any of us
have ever come across. Now.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I mean, I've loved reading about the journey that you
have turned your MBA into because, as you mentioned, you
had a big outlet in your work. Can you explain
to anyone who hasn't kept up what you now do,
because it does seem a little bit incongruous for someone
who spent so much time out on the open waters to.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Now be in an office. Yeah, those people in corporate. Yeah,
it's been seven and a half years.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Why no, right, which is yeah, I didn't really imagine
as Yeah, started at Deloitte seven a half years ago,
so in human capital consulting, so HR type consulting, and
these days, as the rest of the world is, I
suppose is very focused on HR technology and I love it.
I'm this widow who loves my job. Of course, it's
(31:25):
tough at times, and you know, I don't always loves
that the hours are quite as you know, as long
as would be ideal, but genuinely enjoy it. And I
suppose all those years ago, seven and a half years ago,
did come to it with this kind of real drive
to want to have something that was separate from that
sixteen year old me. I think I was, particularly at
(31:46):
that point going through a real period of being pretty.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Over myself and my own story.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
Still am to be clear, really got you've heard it too,
but you've spoken about it, so yeah, it's fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Every time I hear it. I don't think we'll ever
get sick of it. Unfortunately.
Speaker 3 (32:02):
It's like, honestly, it's like you pull hairs out of
my head or something. It's like splitcher, Like, oh, but
I've got a lot better at just kind of embracing that.
But yeah, that's That's one of the things I think
A Camp's death has also really taught me.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
Is just like, get out of your own way.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Just tell people the stories they want to hear. And
it's not actually about me. It's let other people enjoy it.
So I, you know, do speak a lot. I still
do a lot of corporate speaking, and I just go there.
I'm so privileged to have the attention of you know,
sometimes hundreds of people. It's not about you just because
you don't want to tell the same old story, like
(32:40):
they actually want that classic the good story about the
boat rolling upside now, and.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So yeah, like just give it to them. Just please
the people. You actually, you know, it's about the thing.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
You're so privileged to have these people's time and attention.
Oh that's a beautiful way to see it.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
But I mean it is also incredible to see that
you have found such a different chapter and that you
are loving it so much because it does seem not
the direction I think we would expect when you do
think of a sailor out on the open water.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
So what does your week look like now?
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And are you getting out on the water Because another
thing that I loved in I think it was Australian
story that was talking about that sort of a couple
of years wading your way through the grief, was that
it was honoring Cam to keep sailing and that the
whole team kind of felt that way.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, yeah, gush, I'm so so lucky the group of
friends we have, and yeah, sailing obviously such a big
part of all our lives and day to day these
days it's often weekends racing and then in summer twilight
sailing on a Thursday night. So yeah, it's gorgeous and
you know it's actually not kind of there's no big
dramatic adventures or anything too serious on the cars right now,
(33:55):
but life revolves around Thursday night sailing. I'm very serious
about a casual sale. You take your hobbies very seriously,
So yeah, no, love it more than ever.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
Own kind of life does revolve around it.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
But yeah, obviously I'm not spending all day every day
doing it anymore exactly, but I think that's a really
for me right now. It's a really wonderful, wonderful way
to enjoy sailing yeah around the busyness of other aspects
of life, and yeah, in terms of what a week
looks like, they're not often the same, which is probably
(34:29):
a big part of what I'm enjoying it for. And
you know, I do find myself sort of getting to
fly off to some pretty amazing parts of the world
to speak.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
And then the weeks I actually really enjoy.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
I just week at home, in the in the office,
I'm formally four days, which to me really is incredible.
I think it means that I come in I get
just as much done as I would have full time.
But that bit of flexibility is just magic, that bit
of variety for anyone who possibly can.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I know it's not possible for a.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Lot of people, but if you can get to those
four days, it's just just an incredible thing too.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I think it's a big part of why I love work.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Too, and I love the idea that it's often the
things that are the opposite of your life or that
are so unrelated to it that balance often makes you
so much better at what you do. So, I mean,
you've completely changed tack on your life by taking on
a corporate role. And obviously it has been a big
chapter already, but you've done it so many times now
for someone who's just in their very early thirties, for
(35:24):
anyone else who is perhaps scared to take such big leaps.
I think it seems to feel really natural for you,
But I think the average person is quite overcome by
fear when they step into a new environment or a
foreign environment like an office if you've never.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Worked in one before.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
What is that initial phase like for you of a
pivot and how are you adapting so effortlessly into completely
new environments?
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Oh? And it was pretty bad in my early weeks. Yeah,
was it rough? Is it like a rough adjustment?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Do you have kind of a bumpy start or do
you just are you just like so adaptable that it's.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Not No, I mean it's yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
I've done so many different things up until that point,
worked a lot with the corporate world, but this was
the first real experience in it. And when I say
it was bad, I'm particularly thinking how greatly.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
I am to the.
Speaker 3 (36:14):
People who were so generous in those first weeks and months.
But yeah, I mean I think I suppose everything through life.
It's kind of, in a way, the first few weeks
of a sea voyage often going to be very tough,
especially solo one. You might be kind of a bit
seasick and kind of really getting your sea legs, getting
used to sort of bad sleep cycles, and then actually
(36:35):
learning to get enough sleep, and obviously the whole being
alone thing and adjusting to that as well. So I
think I went into the voyage being very prepared for
the first kind of months to be kind of grim
and to.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Just sort of mentally slog it out. And I think
I probably did.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Approach, you know, starting at Deloitte with that same mentality
of that it's going to be a tough first few months,
you know, that adjustments, just all the things there learning
and just kind of the important thing there is it's
going to get better, because yeah, it is tough right now,
but that doesn't mean it's going to be always this tough.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
I love that expect the discomfort and know that it's
a process and then it's.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Not such a surprise.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, Because I think they judge really quickly as well,
Like if we feel a little bit uncomfortable, it's like, well,
I hate this or I'm not built for this, and
it's like, no, you're just doing something new. Give it
a minute before you judge exactly. Judge obviously, but let
that adjustment happen first. Do you foresee any other big pivots?
(37:36):
Like it sort of looks like your life has gone
in these big chapters.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Are you looking for new chapters? Is that how?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Or are you kind of passive and you wait until
a new chapter falls upon your.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Lap, like I think they'll be wrong? Do you want? Maybe? Maybe?
Who knows?
Speaker 3 (37:52):
The funny thing is right, there's so many people who talk,
you know, especially my circles and sailors and things, talk
about dream about heading off and sailing the world, you know,
the Pacific and how do you flat down?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
And like I did that. I'm like, no, I love life.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
I like the routines and the privilege of, like, you know,
being around friends and family and things.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
There's so many good things in life that it's like
I don't want to.
Speaker 3 (38:13):
Throw it all away and go off sailing in the
tropics or something that's supposed to be the idyhill and
they're all striving for like yeah, no, so right now,
very content, more than enough variety in life, all sorts
of new and beautiful things, and just enjoying that. Who
knows what the future holds, but I'm not worrying aheads
too much. But they do often say, you know, you
(38:34):
meant to create a life that you don't want to
run away from.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Like the reason why people are.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Hanging out for the holidays is usually because they're not
as happy in what they're doing. And I love that
you've built a life for yourself that you love and
that you're content with. But I mean, in that sense
and in many senses, you are, as I mentioned at
the beginning, my hero. I think you famously like you're
often quoted as saying this to the then Prime Minister
Kevin Rudd, that you don't consider yourself a hero, that
(39:00):
you're an ordinary girl who just believed in her dream.
You've just got to have a dream, believe in it
and work hard.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
That's perfect for an adult, little and a teenager. Is
that still the ideology that you live by?
Speaker 3 (39:13):
Yeah, yeah, it is, yeah, And I mean, of course
there's the layers of adult realism that.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Come as well layers of reality, like, yeah, of course I.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Do realize obviously there's a degree of privilege I was,
you know, not like the whole voyage was not financially
possible because my parents or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
It was sponsors and other amazing people.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
But obviously there was still some privilege that enabled me
to you know, be int a yacht club in the
first place and things like that. So I definitely recognize
that that, and then I also recognize I suppose that, yeah,
anything's possible, but it's more the question of, but are
you willing to actually sacrifice what it do'll take to
get there? Yeah, And like a lot of the time
that answers no. And that's fair because you know, so
(39:58):
I definitely still still believe in that. It's not to
say it's easy, that's for sure. It is pretty extraordinary
what we can do. Will you certainly don't shy away
from a challenge. But it is interesting then that you
mentioned the financial side of things, because I also think
that's something that we skate over a lot when we're
talking about big dreams and big life pivots.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Can you talk a bit about.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
The financial side of becoming an author and doing the
speaking gigs.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Is it financially viable?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Because I know that a lot of the time writing
books seems a lot more lucrative than perhaps it is.
How does the money side work out for you?
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:35):
I mean the first book around the Voyage was incredible
because the publisher was as much a sponsor of.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
The voyage than anything.
Speaker 3 (40:42):
So that was an amazing and probably quite a unique
experience in that regard. But then yeah, my second book,
novel for young adults, was definitely a process of realizing, Wow,
this is an amazing thing to do, but it's not.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Actually a steady, solid career. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, Like I think it's a career that I enjoy,
but it's obviously also some stability, and that's a wonderful
thing too to pay boat bills.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
And you're juggling so many different things, so I mean
it's wonderful, as you said, the diversity that you have.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
How do you juggle it energy wise or chaotically? And
this is probably an area of life I should.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I've just like, how are you not chronically burnt out
from all the things that you're doing? And have you
learnt through from such a young age taking on so
many high profile big things.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
How do you self manage if you do it all?
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, because I certainly don't thinking about what my sister
or like mum or something would.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
I would say, you hear me talking.
Speaker 3 (41:46):
About this because I think they often you know, and
I suppose they see the side to me where I
turn up back at their place in it in a
bit of a pape. You know, that's what happened, you know,
where you've given every last bit.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Of energy and you're kind of a mess.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
So that's probably, yeah, an area for improvement in terms
of not just kind of giving it everything and then
quite of falling apart.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
Ih.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, the crash and burn. I mean it's effective sometimes
you get a lot done. And writing that adrenaline is
an amazing thing. Was also kind of a coping strategy
for a while too, so kind of had its place.
But that's probably something I should spend some more time
working on and have a little bit too, I think
in terms of yeah, wellness, etcetera.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Well, just as a last question to finish up, there's
a saying that I always come back to, which is
the idea that we can only ever connect the dots
looking back, and that they do often connect in such
a beautiful, sometimes unexpected way when you look back at
all the various experiences that you've had and are still having.
I think another thing about pivoting is that the things
(42:52):
you do in life often set you up really well
for the things that you do next, even if they
don't relate.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Is there anything from sailing.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
That you've acquired, or actually from any of your experiences
that make you really great at what you do now?
Speaker 3 (43:08):
I mean there is obviously something and the kind of
sheer resilience like getting going actually setbacks, right, that's they're great.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yeah, I think you got really good at those really young.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yeah. Just remember that little debacle with the ship where
it Yeah, like that's the ultimate example of your mast
was crushed in half before you started real real bad,
like sort of global media storm situation, real grim. But
it's pretty incredible to look back on that and go,
you got through that.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Yeah, you can get through this as well. Yeah, so
things you survive can be quite powerful.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
But yeah, there's loads of things that have been transferable.
Like you know, it was an uncle who taught me
the idea of a gaunt chart and project management as
this fifteen year old, and like obviously that's just kind
of so fundamental to work in things these days. So
there are' concepts that have been really powerful and useful
throughout for me, Yeah, and then some of those mental fools,
(44:06):
And I think for me probably the thing that's remained
consistently useful is kind of this weird ability to sort
of simplify a lot of the time, which probably is
in large part thanks to being quite dyslexic. That's something
I've always really needed to do, and it actually it's
proved to be what I feel like is probably the
thing I bring most useful to work these days. In
this really complex environment and fast moving world.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
I've just got to simplify things, And turns out a
lot of other people want that too, so it's actually
really useful.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Well that is, I mean, an incredibly useful piece of
advice to finish on because I think, as I said before,
we over complicate things and overthink things all the time
so often get in our own way, and to be
able to simplify things is truly a valuable, invaluable actually
life skill, just as you are a truly extraordinary walking
(44:58):
life skill and incredible person. So thank you so much
for sharing so generously today. It's been wonderful.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
pivot Club. There'll be a new app dropping next week,
so make sure you hit follow wherever you're listening so.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
You don't miss it.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
And if you love the show, please tell a friend
or give it a rating and a review in your
podcast app. It means the world and it really is
the best way to help us spread the word. This
episode of pivot Club was produced by Sally Best with
audio production by Jacob Brownd. The executive producer is Courtney Ammenhauser.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
See you next time. Mumma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners
of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on
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