November 10, 2025 • 46 mins
What happens when you decide to take the leap with a dream you’ve been sitting on for years? For Lyndi Cohen, that dream meant pivoting into an industry she knew nothing about, long after she’d built her own successful empire.
Lyndi’s first journey began after a decade-long battle with binge eating, leading her to build an anti-diet media brand from the ground up. She shortly evolved into who we now know as ‘The Nude Nutritionist’, becoming a renowned TV expert, author and app founder, helping thousands heal their relationships with food and body image.
But one niggling idea wouldn’t go away...And now, Lyndi is making her most dramatic pivot of all. Leaping from the world of nutrition and landing herself straight into her very own fashion debut: launching a swimwear brand, Fearless.
In this episode of Pivot Club, Sarah Davidson speaks with Lyndi about this massive industry leap. They unpack the "messy middle" of her entire career: graduating with no job prospects and using "SEO hacks to manifest a media career", to the $180,000 investment that was required to build a swimwear line from scratch. Lyndi shares her core belief that "the key to success is embarrassment" and why it's been essential for this new fashion venture.
Join us for a raw and practical lesson in constant evolution, a deep dive into the strategy of scaling an idea and a powerful reminder that all the dots (even a high school fashion class) eventually connect, proving that you have to "do it terrified”.
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CREDITS:
Guest: Lyndi Cohen, aka The Nude Nutritionist
Host: Sarah Davidson
Executive Producer: Courtney Ammenhauser
Senior Producer: Sally Best
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You know that quiet, niggling feeling, that little idea that's
been in the back of your mind that just won't
go away. You can be doing everything right, climbing the
ladder that everyone pointed you toward, but that little whisper
keeps saying what if and suddenly becomes too big to ignore.
That's the moment, the moment the safe path becomes the
(00:39):
second best path. It's a thrilling, terrifying, wonderful realization that
you're meant to build something new, something that's truly your own.
Welcome to Pivot Club, where we celebrate those aha moments.
I'm your host, Sarah Davidson, and my big Aha moment
led me straight out of m and A Law and
into creating my own business matcha Maiden. But today we're
(01:03):
celebrating someone else's story, a story about an aspiring person
who listened to that quiet but persistent voice, honored a dream,
and had the courage to go all in. We're here
to unpack the professional plot twists, the strategy, and the
incredible freedom that comes from defining success on.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Your own terms.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Today's guest, Lindy Cohen, is an entrepreneur whose journey started
with a decade long battle with binge eating and dieting.
Now a renowned media dietitian, Lindy or the New Nutritionist,
has built an anti diet empire from the ground up,
helping thousands of women heal their relationships with food and
body image. Lindy's journey has been defined by pivoting from
(01:51):
founding her own media brand to becoming a TV expert
and nutritionist, to becoming an author and also founding a
diet free health app. Now she's making her most dramatic
pivot of all, taking on what she says is the
scariest thing she has ever done, launching a swimwear brand, Fearless.
(02:11):
This is a deep dive into what it really takes
to scale an idea. We cover her early days of
using SEO hacks to manifest a media career, why she
believes the key to success is embarrassment, and how she
invested one hundred and eighty thousand dollars of savings into
an idea she'd been sitting on since twenty eighteen. Get
ready to learn why you have to do it scared
(02:33):
and how our high school fashion design class can come
full circle decades.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Later, Wendy, welcome to Pivot Clubs. Oh it's good to
be here. Oh it's so lovely to have you, especially
because I've had the great privilege of knowing you for
what ten years, a really bloody long time.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
We've come a long way, and.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I'm going to take us right back to that era, actually,
because it's really important to set the scene with your
past life and go back to how it all began.
Of course, now you are one of Australia's most recognized
media personalities. We all know your face, we all know
your and now we all know you're incredible swimwear. But
let's go back to twenty eleven to begin. You had
just graduated with your Bachelor of Nutrition and Dietetics. What
(03:17):
did life look like when you first began to.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Be honest in twenty eleven. I was seriously regretting if
I'd made the wrong career choice. Really, I was five
years old when I first thought there was something wrong
with my body. I was a ballet and I was
staring in the mirror and the little girls they had
these straight up and down bodies. I had little thighs
that touched. By eleven, I was on my first diet
(03:41):
and then by the age of twenty one, I had
a decade of compulsive eating yo yo dieting, binge eating
under my belt. And during that time, at seventeen, I
was like, you know, what's a great profession nutrition. I'll
be a dietitian that way, in a very disorded way.
I will get paid for my obsession. I will get rewarded,
I will earn money, and it would force me to
(04:03):
stay within a certain weight. It came from a really
bad place, so much so that halfway through my degree,
I started going, is this the wrong decision? But I
had a teacher who I went and spoke to. She
was my drama teacher. I said, am I making a
terrible mistake? She said, I actually think you're going to
be exceptional at what you do because of your history,
(04:24):
because you've gone through disordered eating and eating disorder, struggling
with food, struggling with your weight. You'll be such a
deeply empathetic nutritionist and dietitian. So I think it's kind
of brilliant. So at twenty one I graduate, I go, okay, cool,
Now I know I've got an eating disorder I have
to recover because I do not want to give people
eating disorders like how I felt what had happened to
(04:45):
me as an eleven, fifteen, seventeen year old going to
see multiple healthcare professionals. So I was having, I guess,
a little quarter life crisis, going how do I fix this?
And how do I be different to the type of
dietitian I'd been sent to as a kid, So that
I am helping people like themselves. I am helping them
(05:08):
learn how to eat, not just stick to a meal
plan or get obsessed with their weight.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I iced to get away in weekly and then whether
or not I had lost weight would be told whether
I'm a good girl or not. Yeah, So I had
a lot of things I needed to change. So twenty
one I was like, here goes, let's do things differently.
And that's how I started my career. Do you know what's.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Incredible before we even get to the multiple other pivots
you have made along the way that might seem more
obvious in that they're pivots between industries that you've actually
already this early on made a pivot that's an internal one.
It's still the same career path that you'd started out on.
But the motivation behind.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
It is what had shifted.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
The fact that you can pivot your why but still
be doing the same thing. That's still a change in approach.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Spot on, And it meant in my entire career as
I perceived, it shifted before my eyes, and that what
I previously anticipated I would do, have a clinic, have
people come in, get weighed, tell them how many calories
were in different foods, completely altered into much more of
a psychology based type of role, right, and one that
(06:16):
excited me a lot more.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's so great that you found that so early on
a day to day basis.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Were you practicing out of a clinic or a hospital?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, graduating post GFC, there are no.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Jobs tough times.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, there were three jobs for a dietitian in the
entire state of New South Wales in the year that
I graduated. One of my friends got that job. I
did not get a job. I didn't even get an interview,
and at that point I thought, Okay, how am I
going to get a leg in? And I ended up
getting my first gig. It was working at a food
(06:49):
company in marketing, not even nutrition, and it was through
my uncle's friend's friend you know, it wasn't even a
job that was advertised. I interviewed, they gave me the job.
It was basically responding to customer service fetching coffees, but
it was a leg in the door that did it.
Eventually transition into a nutrition role and it led to
(07:10):
a second role that I had. In addition, I needed
more money. I was like, this is not enough. I
need more. I started seeing patients one on one, but
I couldn't afford to have a clinic where they can
come see me. I tried, I'd hire a room for
a whole day. I'd have two clients. One would bail
on me and just not turn up. The other one
would turn up and I'd be running at a loss
for the day. So it wasn't sustainable for me. So
(07:31):
I pitched it like this, I'm a nutrition who is
going to come to your house. I will come and
look at your pantry. It's a home visit. So I
started home visiting my patients in the early days and
doing that kind of one on one service. Sure I
had to pay a little bit more for my car,
but they got a great service. I didn't have to
pay rent and it worked really well because word of
mouth spread and along with SEO. I was early days
(07:54):
of SEO, and the combo meant that I was coming
up on Google reviews. People could find me, and it
was a pretty busy practice.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
That's incredible that you had just kind of created your
own unique format for delivering what you were delivering by
just working out what you didn't like. And I don't
think a lot of us have the bravery to kind
of change up the traditional way of doing something. But now,
I mean, your whole brand is the opposite of perhaps
what it started as. It's anti diet. As you mentioned,
(08:23):
you had started out kind of as an early adopter
of diets, but then have done such a big shift.
When was it that you realized the industry and your
personal views might not have been aligning.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
It was happening throughout this entire process. That first year
of graduation, there was a new book that had just
been released within the dietitian community. It was the non
diet Approach to being a Dietitian and nutritionist, and it
changed my world because I remember exactly where I was
when I read that book. It was a very underground book.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
And black market.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It got my hands on a copy I was lying
in my bed in the afternoon. I still lived in
my parents' house because I couldn't afford a ren to
move out. And it was the first I'd ever read
about intuitive eating, and the idea excited me. I get
goosebumps thinking about it still to this day, because it
was so clear to me from the moment I read
about intuitive eating, the simple idea that your body already
(09:22):
has an inbuilt weight management system. Of course it does,
and it's called your appetite, which is pretty much its
sole purposes to help you regulate energy and versus energy out.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Of course that makes so much sense. Wh in an epiphany.
My life changed from that moment, and I knew that
there was no changing back to the old way. There
was only forward. And remember this is early days. This
is very much on the fringe of dietetics as well.
And I was a really early adopted to that idea
because it made so much sense. Having come from having
(09:52):
binge eating disorder, I was like, this is the way forward.
Started practicing it, started learning failing right, So I guess
probably mucking up and trying to combine weight loss with
intuitive eating in the early days. Realizing you can't do
and then leading into an intuitive eating. So now everyone
knows intuitive eating. Everyone listening is like, I know what
(10:13):
that is. Generally, back then you had to explain it
to everyone. Body image acceptance was not even a concept
out there, and so I really felt like I was
pushing against the norm and the standard practice of how
things were. It felt quite controversial to be doing what
I was doing. I felt like I needed to be
quite loud, and I tried to be loud. And you'd
(10:34):
certainly be going in those days to nutrition events and
there would be some heated arguments between different healthcare professionals
about the different approach because a new wave was coming
in and we were pushing out the we thought outdated
weight loss approach.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I think it is really underestimated the kind of burden
that an early adopter has to bear, because you do
take on the weight of fighting what has existed as
the norm for so long.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
To anyone else who's kind.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Of pioneering in their industry, do you have any advice
for that.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Early fight, Well, there's no road map. It would be
really nice if there was. It's not like I could
consult anyone who had done this before. I didn't have
a mentor I could ask in this space, and I
think that's a really hard thing. Is there's no rules,
and rules are really nice to follow. Sometimes personally, I'm
a bit of a risk taker. I don't like doing
the same thing. I am not the type of person
(11:26):
who likes routine or structure. I mean, I found that
hard when I became a mum, because suddenly structure was everywhere.
But I'm not the kind of person who's going to
go to a cafe and go to the same place.
So for me, the story I tell myself is, you know,
you get to choose the hard you want in your life,
and I simply was choosing the herd of the unknown,
so discomfort is completely unavoidable. It's hard to stay stuck
(11:49):
doing the same thing that everyone's done before. It's hard
to be a change maker and do something differently. It's
scary in its own way. I think they're both equal
levels of hard. So for me, I would just tell
myself the story you love change, even the way I
just explained it to you. Then I'll tell you I'm
someone who loves change. It's part of my identity and
how I come to define myself. I'm sure there are
times I love structure, but I don't lean into that
(12:11):
dialogue because I much prefer this idea of being someone
who loves constant change, which I think if you're going
into business is a really key thing.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It's obviously a skill that has armed you really well
to keep evolving your business right from the very beginning.
Like we just mentioned, you kind of see that you've
made one big pivot. But for me, looking at you, know,
even the ten years i've known you, I'm like, there's
so many micro pivots, like constant evolution and growth. But
as you mentioned, change is really uncomfortable, and that's why
(12:54):
a lot of people steer away from it, because there's
fear of the unknown. There's just the difficulty level. There's
a lot of self talk when you're changing. So we
call this section the messy middle because it is so messy.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But by the time I.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Had met you, the New Nutritionist was your brand, and
it was a big media brand. It was a big
presence that was so clear what you stood for. But
I'm sure it didn't begin that way. So when was
the moment where you thought, I'm going to actually make
this like an empire.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I'm going to give it a name.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't think I ever anticipated to have an empire.
I didn't you have one. I did have goals. I
was clear. I did write by five and ten year plan.
I was like, I would like it too. Yeah, I'd
like to write a book. I would like to do
a Ted talk. I would like to be on TV.
I remember I was fifteen years old. I was watching
Channel nine and Joanna McMillan, She's a big deal dietician
(13:53):
who I like, have the most respectful. She was on
Today's show and I was going, I was watching, going,
oh my goodness, that is the job I would absolutely
love to have. And so here I was, early twenties
now going okay, I think I'd be really good at
doing that gig. And so I positioned myself as a
media dietitian with zero zero skill set. I mean, listen,
(14:16):
I'm a drama kid from way back when, did lots
of speech lessons and competitions growing up, so I thought
I could do that kind of stuff. So what I
did is little seo hack. I was like, okay, media
dietitian and nutritionist, I'm gonna pop that all over my
website so that I'm going to become that person. I
guess that's an idea of manifesting, right, let me just
(14:36):
pour it out into the world, and the Internet responded
so essentially what happened one fateful day when I was
twenty one, exactly pretty much ten years ago to the day.
Producer called me in a panic. We have a slot
on Channel nine that we need to fill at eleven
am in the morning. Can you come in tomorrow to
the studio. We really need you. Okay, great, amazing. So
(14:57):
I go in. I have like a deer in the headlights,
doing my media interview on TV for the first time, scared,
no idea what I'm doing, and that is how I've
been doing Today Show for ten years. Through putting it
out there.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I actually didn't know any of that, and I love
so much how you didn't necessarily already.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Have those opportunities presented to you.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
You were just like, I am not a media dietitian yet,
but I will just label myself one and then I'll.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Just figure it out. And did I feel like an impostor?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Absolutely. I was like, she gotta fake it till she
makes it one. Do you know I met my husband
by splating into these dms on LinkedIn as well. But
that's a whole other story, guys. I know no way.
He's a good man too. And the point is, if
you want to get anything in life, I think the secret.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Is to ask yes and to believe that you can,
because I think most people wouldn't necessarily reverse engineering like
that and just go, you know what.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I want to be a media dietitian, so I.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Will literally hack SEO to make sure I'm seen that way,
I think we'd spend way too much time in our
head being like, oh but I haven't done that before,
or how could I ever, like actually get.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Through a segment you just did it. I love that
a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
It takes balls, Yeah, it takes tits, It takes as
you said.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It's a definition of clips for that.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
But let's talk the logistics of this, because this is
building your sort of media brand that was happening alongside
your actual dietitian practice.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yes, so at that point I was like, I'm going
to specialize in binge eating disorder. It's just been added
to the diagnostic criteria. So then it became so clear
that this became my specialty and no one else was
doing it. In fact, I would have clients from all
over the world because I was one of the few
people who was early on offering this kind of support.
I once again made an SEO play where I go, Okay,
(16:50):
she's a binge eating specialist. And then I could not
keep up with the demand. Wow, my practice was so busy.
I quit all the other jobs. I was seeing people
on the weekends before work, after work. And this point,
I have a two bedroom apartment and they are coming
into my spare bedroom no way, yeah, and not minding
one bit because we're doing the work. We're getting it done.
(17:13):
And at that point I had so many clients, I
was like, I need to scale, and the only way
to scale is to build an online version of what
I'm doing so that I can access more people, more
people can access the support I'm limited. I did think
about hiring other people, but I did think that that
would be a more effective way to kind of get
it in an affordable cost to more people. So built
(17:35):
my first online offering in twenty sixteen, I want to say,
at the same time, going on TV more frequently, getting
experience working out the time slot, so eleven am, then
it became ten am, then it became nine am and
then oh suddenly I was on like a little bit
more when people were not at the dentist watching TV,
which was exciting, and yeah, the practice was really busy.
(17:56):
But then I had to learn e comm right. I
had to learn this whole idea of how do you
sell digital programs and courses and there wasn't a precedent
for that being done with nutrition dietetics. It was all like, oh,
everything's moving online. E courses were booming, and so I
built a video program when video was way before video.
But I was like, how else do I do it?
And I needed to speak to my patients one on one.
(18:18):
So essentially took everything I would teach my clients and
it condensed it into a video course and that was
a great launch pad for my online business.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Gosh, I just love how much of this revolves around
the SEO play because I don't think I've ever heard
a story that was so targeted. It was like, I
want to be found by these people for this reason,
and that's how you create demand.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Thanks. I mean, I think it's just manifesting in the
new era.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Right again, from that logistical standpoint, because I think anyone
else who might be considering making a pivot in their life.
The parts we often skate over when we tell the
story is also the financial structure of how that happens.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Did you have a freedom fund that you had saved previously.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Were you earning money from your clients and then investing
that back into the business to record the videos?
Speaker 4 (19:07):
It's like, how are you funding everything?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It's a great question. I think I was really scrappy
in that I was really determined to do a lot
of things by myself. In hindsight, I think I would
have scaled a lot quicker had I actually invested in
the right things. I could see at that time a
lot of people investing a lot of money into branding,
like they had these most spectacular looking courses, and then
I'd get a quote from the same designer and it's
(19:30):
like twenty thousand dollars and I was like, Okay, I
think I'll just push some stuff around and make my
own little brand. And so I did that and that worked.
But I do regret not going harder quicker on that project.
And I was teaching myself SEO. I was teaching myself Canva,
being across these things and trying to do it all,
(19:51):
and I was I was saving money at an excellent job.
I was reinvesting into my business. I've consistently taken a
very low salary for my business. Everything gets reinvested into
my business. It's how I'm at the point i'm at now.
I couldn't have done any of this had I not
had some funding behind me to the business that I built.
But I certainly had to invest in the product. I
do think there's a lot of people who invest too
(20:12):
much money in their MVP. They get that minimal viable
product out and it's not a minimum viable product. It's
like an excellent product. Yeah that they waited way too
long to launch. And I've never been like that. I
launched things like my program my app. I look back
at earlier versions of them and I go, gosh, that's embarrassing.
I cringe. Cringe is such a key part of how
I think I do my work, because if I waited
(20:35):
until I wasn't cringe, I would never have started. I
think the key to success is embarrassment, and I'm not
afraid to unlock it with some embarrassment. And I know
I have looked back to my content and thought, oh,
we humbled myself. We started somewhere. But I do very
much review and reflect my work really frequently, particularly with
(20:56):
video content. I make myself look back at everything and
it's really hard to watch.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
And that's a humbling experience, still painful.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, but I do it, and I think that's how
you kind of get these little micro improvements and adjustments.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I'm such a similar personality type as you in business
in that if I don't cringe at my original iterations
of something, I'm like, well, I haven't developed enough. It's
a sign that you've adapted and learned if you look back.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And go, oh, like, what is that?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So I think that that internal dialogue we tell ourselves
sometimes where you do just have to get something out there.
For example, when I launched my app, I didn't launch
with a one hundred thousand dollar bill because one hundred
thousand dollars. Instead, I launched with that basic version that
I could proved up concept. Sure there's demand for this
now I can justify making that investment, And I wish
more people did that.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
I think that's such excellent advice.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I often say done is better than perfect because it
is a timely thing in this day and age, like
there are so many competitors. They are barriers to entry
for a lot of products, and sometimes it is about timing.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
You want to be the.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
First to market and you want to get it out
there and not hamstring yourself with trying to get it perfect,
because you could end up never launching something is a
lot of internal dialogue about.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh, but like what if it fails?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
There is imposter syndrome that comes with that, going how
would you advise someone else who is launching something and
they're worried about releasing it now.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I think one of the stories we tell ourselves is
it's been done before. Other people are doing this, they're
already doing it better than me. Who am I to
be doing something like this? And if you think about it,
that's phony, that's nonsense. If you've ever received advice from
your mum and she was like, you know what, I
think you look really great with bangs and you're like, mom, no,
(22:41):
your best friend can tell you the exact same thing,
and suddenly when it comes out of her lips, you go, oh,
that fully resonates. I really get that. So sometimes we're
just looking for the right person to give us the
right advice at the right time. So even if you're
coming into a market and it is more saturated than
you'd like, there is always room for your perspective. So
I think that's a huge barrier where people talk themselves
out of even attempting it in the beginning because they're
(23:05):
worried they're too late, too late.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
But I also love that because I think sometimes we
believe our idea has to be the first, or like
something brand new, and if someone else has done it,
you're like, I'll self select out of that and I won't.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Even give it a go. You don't have to do
something new, you just have to do it differently or
better than the other person.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
And I think that's such a valuable thing that you
have obviously been able to apply because you have kept
evolving in markets where obviously people have invented apps before,
and obviously there's a lot of different options in food
and nutrition, and yet you were like, no, mine still
has a place in the market, and you just got
on with it and did it. So how did you
then pivot into tech? You know, you've just kept taking
(23:46):
these huge leaps, which you mentioned at the start.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
You didn't really see them as pivots.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, I just saw them as extensions of my business.
But now that you frame it like that, sure it
did feel like an totally uncharted territory. Now I'm building
an app. I know nothing about app development, and my
husband at that point joins my business. I was like,
I need to scale and I need someone who's my
right or die. And he's excellent. He's a lawyer by trade,
(24:10):
he's studied commerce as well, so a great skill set
to bring to my lack of number away.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
So he's a visionary and so.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
He does all that kind of stuff. And from that
point just started to understand the whole new world integration.
And I think fundamentally, if you're running a business these days,
you have to be so across the tech and how
things talk to each other in different apps, and constantly
stay on top of it. Like AI at the moment,
super fun. I'm so into it. It's such a wildly
cool thing to be experiencing in our time.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
What about the process of finding a developer, because I
think another thing that feels really scary when you first
have an idea. If anyone out there has an idea
for an app, it's well, how would I actually build it?
And I think we just don't know how people start
their businesses like the very first day, do you google it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Google is how I started.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
We went on really, oh that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I'm pretty sure how to app Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
We would have gone on a fiver And I think
got some quotes based on the scope of work, so
like lay out what are we looking for, what are
the functionality pieces that we need, and then we spoke
to a few developers. We ended up finding someone in
Ukraine who was excellent and became a really great key
(25:25):
partner for us, and we needed to take advice. So
we also spoke to a lot of friendlies, so in
our community, people that we know who may have started
different apps. And I think, you know, coming back to
remembering how I got my first gig, I got it
through the people I know. And I think there's a
lot of opportunity just sitting there are the people that
you know and you know, sliding into some dms and
just like saying hi to some people, no not everyone's
(25:48):
going to want to sit down and have a coffee.
I think you can just send one one quick question
in an email. You're much more likely to get a
response from someone than asking them for a whole coffee date.
But essentially we're asking people for advice and we ended
up with a web based app. And the benefit of
web based app was way cheaper, way easier for a
developed to kind of execute. It meant that people could
(26:09):
do workouts and access the recipes from their desktop and
didn't have to be on a phone. And then once
we got the web based app, cool, now let's make
it into an app app as you know it. And
that was a whole separate build and then you got
to do Android after that, and I was exhausted by
at that point.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
But it is really interesting that you didn't do it
all at once. And I think that's the other thing
that holds people back is I think I need to
go straight to the final version and I need to
have everything.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
All in one go.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And it's like, actually start the web based app first,
like tested it with the market, or grow into the
final product.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, And once again, I look back at my early
stuff that I put out there, and it was grainy
and average. I have my USPS super clear, and I
always have my USPS, my unique selling points super clear
on all of my products. And how I believe I'm
going to own a unique white space in the market
that I'm entering, and certainly with my app, I certainly
felt it's the non diet approach to doing all these
(27:03):
healthy things. It was still kind of coming through and
that was super key for me to be able to
do that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
And then at this point a lot of listeners would
be thinking, sure, these are all the pivots that she's done,
and we're not even up to the main pivot yet,
because you have then gone on to not just conquer
the world of apps and tech, but to start a
swimwear line, which is a complete pivot into the fashion
industry and manufacturing. Again, how do you even switch industries?
(27:31):
How did you know that you had a new idea
twenty eighteen?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I mean Portugal.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Wow, it was like a moment.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It was a moment. I remember I was sitting by
a pool pre kids fun days and I said to
my husband, I think I think we should have a
swimsuit label. I think that is the future for us.
He's like, there's a million swimsuit labels. I was like,
you're right, park the idea.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Then kids happen, COVID happens, it all happens, and we
come out of this to be honest, I see the
AI revolution coming. I'm like, I think this is going
to fund thement transform a lot of businesses. I think
a an online business like myself that sells digital assets
is not immune from AI coming in and doing stuff.
(28:17):
I looked into doing a food product for a good
year and I looked into the margins and the commercials
did not stack up for me. Essentially, you have to
sell so much food to get the margins, so how
much you're going to earn per product? Right? And I
was like, that's a massive play. It scared me, so
(28:38):
I tapped out of that concept after a really significant
amount of looking into that as a potential, and that's
when the idea for swim it had percolated my brain.
Every six months I'd go, hey, Lens, I reckon, we
should do the swimsuit thing, Like, I really think there's
legs to it. He's like, I don't believe it. And
that's when it became crystal clear to me what white
space we would occupy for feelss this new swimsuit label
(29:01):
and for me, I see it as I think there
are a lot of swimsuits that are designed for girls
who can wear string bikini. The rest of us who
wants to have our bum covered, you know, not in
a G string. It's kind of hard to find these days.
I was like, those are my people, the ladies who
want to have like a degree of like full coverage. Well,
you have pretty full coverage. You're just not worried about
(29:22):
it a nip slip of the beach either. You know
you're not going to dive under a wave and for
your entire boob to fall out.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
We've all been there.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Those are my people. That's you listening. I created feelers
for you, and then I basically was like, Okay, I
think I have this idea. Let me throw it out
onto Instagram and see And then Instagram was like, people
like this way better than the rest of the shit
you wants who Instantly the results were there. People were like,
this is amazing. Yes we want bum coverage, Yes we
(29:49):
want to ow boobs to stay in our suicides. And
the momentum was there from the very start, and so
I started asking people, Okay, what do you want? How
much bum coverage? Do you want fixed straps, thin straps?
Do you want molded cups? Do you want removable cups?
What fabric? Oh my godness, how many questions can I
ask you. My best performing story set I think I've
ever done was pulling people on what features they wanted.
(30:12):
I think for the customer for the first time to
be like, oh, someone's listening, someone's really taking notes. She
wants to know and I want to vote. I want
to tell her the things that I love and things
that I hate. And I was using it like data
as excellent data and.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
I think market research in real time.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Fundamentally, I was able to get ten thousand women in
my key demographic to answer information within twenty four hours
and get really statistically significant results. So it really felt
like I was leaning into my nutrition skill set that
I had got a science degree, which I thought, well,
I won't need that for design work. But fundamentally, I
think that's why it's been so successful. We have taken
(30:49):
data and we've applied that science lens to design to
understand exactly the level of things that women want, and
then we've applied it and made it happen so really quickly.
On in the piece, I realized, Okay, so fifteen thousand
women join my waitlist. It's fifteen thousand outrageous.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
I had a.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Thousand swimsuits to sell. But what was really early on
in the piece is realizing that forty nine percent of
women said that they wear a different sized top to bottom,
and then ninety nine percent of women said they wanted
to wear a one piece. But I was like, okay,
but then what do you do if you're a different size?
And so it came to me the idea of doing
(31:27):
what we call magic sizing. Magic sizing is a world
first where it's a one piece that you can purchase
in a different sized top to bottom. So for that
forty nine percent of women, which is not a niche,
that is a humongous number of women who have been
completely neglected by this idea because no one sat down
and bothered to go, oh, how are women shaped? Not
like Barbie, who knew how wild? And so we have
(31:50):
consistently just taken measurements from women to realize how outdated
size charts are, which is why when you go into
a change room to try in a swimsuit, you cry,
and it turns into what was meant to be a
really exciting experience into something that humbles you and humiliates you.
To be honest, and I hate that women think it's
their body that's the problem, and not the swimsuits. So
(32:11):
we here to change the swimsuits so you don't have
to feel like you have to lose weight to feel
comfory at the beach.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And do you know what's so incredible about all of that,
There's that age old story of the overnight success. It
looks like you woke up one day you had the idea,
and the next day you did the research and then
you started the business. But I love reminding everyone you
sat on this idea for a while. A pivot can start,
like the seeds can be laid years and years before
you actually do anything about it. And that's also okay,
(32:37):
Like there's something about timing being right.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Fundamentally, none of this would be possible without the thirteen
years of new nutritionist experience and of getting the funds
sorted so that when I was ready, I had an audience,
I had the funds, I had the team, I had
the skill set and the hutzpah to make it happen.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And I love that there's this narrative we tell ourselves
sometimes of like, well, that was a waste of time
because I left that career. But nothing is a waste
all those experiences and skins culminate in the pivot, and
you have obviously applied all of that into making Fearless.
This incredible, incredible business. Did you have much fear around it?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
This is the scariest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Well, that's reassuring because it does sound like it came
like crystal.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Clear to you that you were supposed to do this.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Every year I pick a word, not like a uo's resolution,
but like a word and intention. This year it's fearst
my word. I am so scared every single day. In fact,
this year has been such a hard year in that
I am constantly in discomfort of change. Nothing is the same,
And I think one of the key things that I've
done is I'm taking responsibility. I'm owning that I have
(33:49):
full autonomy in my life and there are levers I
can pull to change things and get things done. But
holy moly, I have no idea what I'm doing, and
I'm just trying to learn as I go. And it's
been fantastic because I've really starting to reap the rewards
of being so brave. But it feels really hard.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I think that's one of the huge keys to how
successful feel. This has already been, and that's been that
you have taken everyone along on the journey. Not only
have you been polling people and paying attention to their
responsors to make people feel really valued that they're being
listened to, but you've also shared when it has been
really hard, like you've intimately documented when things haven't really
(34:30):
gone right, or when samples have arrived and you're not
happy with them.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
And that makes people feel really part of a community.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, and I think there are some downsides to that.
It's been quite hard to get any media group to
take us seriously because all they do is they'll go
on on my Instagram and go, well, it looks like
there's lots of issues in your business, and I every
business has issues. I'm just being transparent about them, and
I'm talking about them, and I'll talk about how much
things cost as well, which I think some people can
(34:56):
be a bit offended by. But I want you to know.
So we did our pre order and we made two
hundred thousand in twenty four hours. We sold out. It
was kubum kubum, and it was incredible, but we had
to put in hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think
one hundred and eighty thousand dollars was the first amount
that we put into getting stock for our swimsuits. Before
(35:18):
I'd sold one swimsuit. We were backing ourselves, going we
think the data is there, we think that people are there,
but until that moment of going we think we have something.
It was an incredibly scary ledge and I want to say, like,
this is mine and my husband's savings that we've built
up over doing everything we've done up to this point.
We have shared a lot of the low lights as well,
(35:38):
and I think it's really nice to have business owners
who are telling you, like what's going wrong, because it's
so much going wrong all the time. And I think
these are just really important questions to be asking ourselves
how much are we willing to sacrifice? Because you might
write your goal list, so these are the things I want,
you also need to write a sacrifice list right next
to it. That is sacrifice list, selling out what you
will give up in exchange for these goals to achieve them.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
That is so powerful.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
So I think that's such a really important reminder to
remember the sacrifices that you're making as well. But now
obviously you are still partly in the messy middle of
this big pivot, but you've also come out the other
(36:24):
end in that the business has launched and it's doing
absolutely incredibly. I mean, you're wearing one of the absolutely
magnificent red one piece swimsuits that everyone that you've walked
past has commented on. It's exquisite. What does your day
to day look like now that your post launch you're
running the show? How do you see yourself? Title wise,
(36:46):
two kids, two businesses. Yeah, seeoh, fashion designer, nutritionist, tech founder.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
It's wild. Seven weeks ago, I was working from home
with my husband and one other employee. Now we have
an office space that we're outgrowing because I like I'm
hiring a new employee once a week. At the moment,
it's not just building a team around us, an exceptional
team and really just seeking out those people who are
going to be great cultural fits. So building that and
(37:13):
that's a wild thing. I think I see myself as
more creative director of this business and being super aware
of where we're going. A co founder, but I think
the word CEO is a very glamorized concept. Happy for
my husband to own that one, because it requires a
lot of people management, A lot of being across the numbers,
(37:34):
a lot of nitty gritty. Don't get me wrong, I'm
happy to get stuck in on all that stuff, but
I do think I need to be that person looking
to the future going, oh, we can sell simsuits without
selling the thin ideal. Let me show you how we're
going to do that. And I think that was so
exciting about the pre order. The fact that we have
done so well is we aren't designing some suits for
a size zero mannequin or photoshop version. We know who
(37:57):
we're designing for, and that's my geek now keeping us
clear that we want to create some suits for the
ninety one percent of women who feel completely overlooked by
the industry. And I have to paint that picture for
the rest of the team so they know where we're
going on this. But it is really fun design, I
have to say. And you know what I think about
now is I went to a school that it really
encouraged us to study whatever we wanted to for HC,
(38:20):
and I studied design and fashion design. Did you yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Full circle moment.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
See dumb. At the time, I was like, cool, I'll
do PDHPE, I'll do some signs I'll throw in the
things I need for nutrition, But hey, I really like
art and I really like fashion design. So those are
my fun ones. And what do you know, came full
circle and used a lot of those skills. I grew
up with my mum sewing my dresses for formal I
would sew my clothes. I'd be with my friends, like
(38:46):
you know, stitching things up. After my dad died, I
got into a hobby of sewing swimsuits. I wanted something
that was going to make me feel great. So I'm
sewing swimsuits and going, okay, let me modify this, let
me do this. And so I think I understand basically
how construction works as well, which is a really nice
addition to have in the skill set. So by what
I'm saying is no, sometimes you think I'm doing this
(39:09):
little hobby or this little thing, it feels like a
little detour. But a lot of these things you end
up bringing back to you and now you know, twenty
years on from that, I'm going, Wow, what a cool
thing that I had a hobby that I now use.
And you don't have to monetize all your hobbies, but
you know what, if you can and money off you
might as well why not.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
And that's such a good point because I think in
every pivot that we've had on the show so far,
the dots connect so clearly. In hindsight, it's just like, wow,
it all makes sense. But you just have to trust
the process sometimes, I think, because when you're going through
the process, it can feel really messy, it can be
really confusing. It can be kind of like, how are
these skills relevant? And what I learned from the past experiences.
(39:47):
But it's so interesting that you've started with fashion design. Yeah,
and now you're back.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Here, and if you think about it, it's such a
beautiful cross relationship between nutrition and eating disorders. Yeah, swimsuit
is not a fabric issue. It's a body image issue.
It's solving that and Ei, there are so many brands
and no one's talking about body image. The fact that
we feel like that walk from the towel to the
water's edge feels like we're on a runway and everyone's
staring at us. This is a body image thing to solve.
(40:14):
And that's why I feel like I'm uniquely positioned to
actually do this's because of my entire nutrition career.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
One of the things that you have done that.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
I also think is extraordinary is every time you pivot,
you don't drop the last project, you just add another one.
And you're a mum, So how do you now juggle
swapping between those things? A lot of mums have that
guilt between mum life and work life, but then you've
got lots of different babies.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I as someone who loves change and hates systems, I've
come a long way and I'm really into systems. I
like streamlining things, I like automating things. Fundamentally, I think
about my business as a content machine, and so I
think that's the fundamental pivot really is that I went
from realizing I was a nutritionist to oh, I do
content and that's what I do and everything can kind
(41:01):
of fall into that umbrella. And realizing that was kind
of critical. But how I juggle it? And I I'm
really going through a metamorphos at the moment, trying to
find my balance between this and I'm simplifying things in
my life that I can simplify. So I don't want
a fussy garden, for example. I don't have time for that.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I don't know how you have time for anything.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I need to outsource things wherever I can. I think
the biggest lesson I learned from becoming a mum was
that resentment was a clue that you needed more help.
I found that after I had kids. I was so angry.
I felt so much resentment that I so much fell
on me as the mom and the mental load and
it was so heavy. And it wasn't that I needed
a divorce.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I just need to support.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I needed support, yea right. And for some people they
can get that internally from family, and some people need
to hire that help. And I'm at that point now
where I'm going I need a combo of all these
things and I need to get support. And you know,
you can't just have one single point of failure. So
you can't just have one person you're relying on, because
what happens if they're sick, your entire world falls apart.
(42:05):
So you need the systems and the protocol so that
you have different people helping you in different ways. And
I'm not afraid of that anymore.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I love that when you identify an area that you
struggle with, that you just kind of work really hard
on it until you don't struggle with it anymore.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
There's a lot of struggle.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
No, but we all have struggle.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
It's just not a lot of us are as efficient
at overcoming the struggle.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I feel like you're really good at.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Identifying when something isn't serving you and going well, I'll
just learn how to get through that.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
It's very efficient.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
I think my mantro at the moment is take responsibility,
you know, and things. I don't want to feel like
I'm a victim in my life, Like I just want
to feel like I have choices here. I can make decisions,
I can make calls. You know I used to do.
I used to be the biggest procrastinator. You would never oh, yeah,
huge among this procrastinator.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
I was kind of imagine it.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
You'd be like like, oh, you know, I don't know.
I want to write a really good email, so I'll
email that person later. Mark is unread use my inbox
as a to do list. And then Roxy just Senko
sent me an email. I was a nobody at this time.
I send her an email. She sends me an email
back like ten minutes later, and.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
That always overwhelms me.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
When it's someone like super super busy and successful, I'm like,
how that was it?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I was like, how do you have time for me
and nobody. And then I looked at the email and
it was a highly efficient, scrappy email. Did I care
that the formatting was not there? No, I didn't care.
I was delighted to get such an efficient response. And
that is how roxy just saying go helped me become
ten times more effective at what I do. I do
not wait for the perfect email. I will send you
an email on the fly. I don't want to be
(43:32):
a handbrake in my business, and I can be a
handbake my business. And I've got all these people who
need to ask me questions. I am very happy to
make quick decisions, even if I'm getting ten percent of
them wrong. I'd rather that than delaying things so much
because I'm scared of making the wrong decision. That in
action has left me. And the more I've practiced just
(43:54):
making a quick decision, the easier it's getting to make
these quick decisions. What it feels like is I'm I'm
not leaving stuff for future me. It's a gift for
future me. It's as simple as putting stuff straight into
the dishwasher, gift for future me. I'm constantly giving gifts
for future me.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Oh my God, I've never thought of it like that before.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
In little ways because future me she doesn't have time.
Oh future me is busy, and that's helped a lot.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
I have never conceptualized it as a gift for future me,
but thinking about past you, if you could give past
you before all these pivots a gift, a piece of advice,
anything to guide her.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
What would you say.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I think the advice I give is it sounds generic,
but do it scared, do it before you're ready. If
you're not scared, you are waiting too long. You've gotta
be terrified. I feel so terrified in what I'm doing
right now, and I'm truly just taking all the advice
I can possibly get from people. So if my customers
(44:56):
are like, we like that neckline, I'm like, cool, We're
going to make that happen and running with it. I'm terrified.
Every single day I'm going through a massive growth phase.
So I guess that's a fun way of thinking about it.
That growth has to come with being scared, Otherwise you're
staying in your comfort zone.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
That is such powerful and excellent advice for anyone listening,
because I do think as humans, our default is comfort,
and so our default is to not do it until
we're not scared, and that day never comes. So what
an empowering way to end. Thank you so much for
sharing so vulnerably and openly, and I cannot wait to
see what happens from this next chapter of yours me too.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Thanks for tuning in to Pivot Club. We'll be back
in your feed next week with another brand new episode.
Be sure to hit follow wherever you get your podcasts
so you don't miss it.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
And if you loved this chat, we would be so.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Grateful if you could share it with a friend or
leave us a rating and a review. This episode of
Pivot Club was produced by Sally Best. The executive producer
is Courtney Abenhauser.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We'll catch you next time. Mumma Mere acknowledges the traditional
owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded
on
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You know that quiet, niggling feeling, that little idea that's
been in the back of your mind that just won't
go away. You can be doing everything right, climbing the
ladder that everyone pointed you toward, but that little whisper
keeps saying what if and suddenly becomes too big to ignore.
That's the moment, the moment the safe path becomes the
(00:39):
second best path. It's a thrilling, terrifying, wonderful realization that
you're meant to build something new, something that's truly your own.
Welcome to Pivot Club, where we celebrate those aha moments.
I'm your host, Sarah Davidson, and my big Aha moment
led me straight out of m and A Law and
into creating my own business matcha Maiden. But today we're
(01:03):
celebrating someone else's story, a story about an aspiring person
who listened to that quiet but persistent voice, honored a dream,
and had the courage to go all in. We're here
to unpack the professional plot twists, the strategy, and the
incredible freedom that comes from defining success on.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Your own terms.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Today's guest, Lindy Cohen, is an entrepreneur whose journey started
with a decade long battle with binge eating and dieting.
Now a renowned media dietitian, Lindy or the New Nutritionist,
has built an anti diet empire from the ground up,
helping thousands of women heal their relationships with food and
body image. Lindy's journey has been defined by pivoting from
(01:51):
founding her own media brand to becoming a TV expert
and nutritionist, to becoming an author and also founding a
diet free health app. Now she's making her most dramatic
pivot of all, taking on what she says is the
scariest thing she has ever done, launching a swimwear brand, Fearless.
(02:11):
This is a deep dive into what it really takes
to scale an idea. We cover her early days of
using SEO hacks to manifest a media career, why she
believes the key to success is embarrassment, and how she
invested one hundred and eighty thousand dollars of savings into
an idea she'd been sitting on since twenty eighteen. Get
ready to learn why you have to do it scared
(02:33):
and how our high school fashion design class can come
full circle decades.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Later, Wendy, welcome to Pivot Clubs. Oh it's good to
be here. Oh it's so lovely to have you, especially
because I've had the great privilege of knowing you for
what ten years, a really bloody long time.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
We've come a long way, and.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
I'm going to take us right back to that era, actually,
because it's really important to set the scene with your
past life and go back to how it all began.
Of course, now you are one of Australia's most recognized
media personalities. We all know your face, we all know
your and now we all know you're incredible swimwear. But
let's go back to twenty eleven to begin. You had
just graduated with your Bachelor of Nutrition and Dietetics. What
(03:17):
did life look like when you first began to.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Be honest in twenty eleven. I was seriously regretting if
I'd made the wrong career choice. Really, I was five
years old when I first thought there was something wrong
with my body. I was a ballet and I was
staring in the mirror and the little girls they had
these straight up and down bodies. I had little thighs
that touched. By eleven, I was on my first diet
(03:41):
and then by the age of twenty one, I had
a decade of compulsive eating yo yo dieting, binge eating
under my belt. And during that time, at seventeen, I
was like, you know, what's a great profession nutrition. I'll
be a dietitian that way, in a very disorded way.
I will get paid for my obsession. I will get rewarded,
I will earn money, and it would force me to
(04:03):
stay within a certain weight. It came from a really
bad place, so much so that halfway through my degree,
I started going, is this the wrong decision? But I
had a teacher who I went and spoke to. She
was my drama teacher. I said, am I making a
terrible mistake? She said, I actually think you're going to
be exceptional at what you do because of your history,
(04:24):
because you've gone through disordered eating and eating disorder, struggling
with food, struggling with your weight. You'll be such a
deeply empathetic nutritionist and dietitian. So I think it's kind
of brilliant. So at twenty one I graduate, I go, okay, cool,
Now I know I've got an eating disorder I have
to recover because I do not want to give people
eating disorders like how I felt what had happened to
(04:45):
me as an eleven, fifteen, seventeen year old going to
see multiple healthcare professionals. So I was having, I guess,
a little quarter life crisis, going how do I fix this?
And how do I be different to the type of
dietitian I'd been sent to as a kid, So that
I am helping people like themselves. I am helping them
(05:08):
learn how to eat, not just stick to a meal
plan or get obsessed with their weight.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
I iced to get away in weekly and then whether
or not I had lost weight would be told whether
I'm a good girl or not. Yeah, So I had
a lot of things I needed to change. So twenty
one I was like, here goes, let's do things differently.
And that's how I started my career. Do you know what's.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Incredible before we even get to the multiple other pivots
you have made along the way that might seem more
obvious in that they're pivots between industries that you've actually
already this early on made a pivot that's an internal one.
It's still the same career path that you'd started out on.
But the motivation behind.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
It is what had shifted.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
The fact that you can pivot your why but still
be doing the same thing. That's still a change in approach.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Spot on, And it meant in my entire career as
I perceived, it shifted before my eyes, and that what
I previously anticipated I would do, have a clinic, have
people come in, get weighed, tell them how many calories
were in different foods, completely altered into much more of
a psychology based type of role, right, and one that
(06:16):
excited me a lot more.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
It's so great that you found that so early on
a day to day basis.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Were you practicing out of a clinic or a hospital?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Okay, graduating post GFC, there are no.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Jobs tough times.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, there were three jobs for a dietitian in the
entire state of New South Wales in the year that
I graduated. One of my friends got that job. I
did not get a job. I didn't even get an interview,
and at that point I thought, Okay, how am I
going to get a leg in? And I ended up
getting my first gig. It was working at a food
(06:49):
company in marketing, not even nutrition, and it was through
my uncle's friend's friend you know, it wasn't even a
job that was advertised. I interviewed, they gave me the job.
It was basically responding to customer service fetching coffees, but
it was a leg in the door that did it.
Eventually transition into a nutrition role and it led to
(07:10):
a second role that I had. In addition, I needed
more money. I was like, this is not enough. I
need more. I started seeing patients one on one, but
I couldn't afford to have a clinic where they can
come see me. I tried, I'd hire a room for
a whole day. I'd have two clients. One would bail
on me and just not turn up. The other one
would turn up and I'd be running at a loss
for the day. So it wasn't sustainable for me. So
(07:31):
I pitched it like this, I'm a nutrition who is
going to come to your house. I will come and
look at your pantry. It's a home visit. So I
started home visiting my patients in the early days and
doing that kind of one on one service. Sure I
had to pay a little bit more for my car,
but they got a great service. I didn't have to
pay rent and it worked really well because word of
mouth spread and along with SEO. I was early days
(07:54):
of SEO, and the combo meant that I was coming
up on Google reviews. People could find me, and it
was a pretty busy practice.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
That's incredible that you had just kind of created your
own unique format for delivering what you were delivering by
just working out what you didn't like. And I don't
think a lot of us have the bravery to kind
of change up the traditional way of doing something. But now,
I mean, your whole brand is the opposite of perhaps
what it started as. It's anti diet. As you mentioned,
(08:23):
you had started out kind of as an early adopter
of diets, but then have done such a big shift.
When was it that you realized the industry and your
personal views might not have been aligning.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
It was happening throughout this entire process. That first year
of graduation, there was a new book that had just
been released within the dietitian community. It was the non
diet Approach to being a Dietitian and nutritionist, and it
changed my world because I remember exactly where I was
when I read that book. It was a very underground book.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
And black market.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
It got my hands on a copy I was lying
in my bed in the afternoon. I still lived in
my parents' house because I couldn't afford a ren to
move out. And it was the first I'd ever read
about intuitive eating, and the idea excited me. I get
goosebumps thinking about it still to this day, because it
was so clear to me from the moment I read
about intuitive eating, the simple idea that your body already
(09:22):
has an inbuilt weight management system. Of course it does,
and it's called your appetite, which is pretty much its
sole purposes to help you regulate energy and versus energy out.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Of course that makes so much sense. Wh in an epiphany.
My life changed from that moment, and I knew that
there was no changing back to the old way. There
was only forward. And remember this is early days. This
is very much on the fringe of dietetics as well.
And I was a really early adopted to that idea
because it made so much sense. Having come from having
(09:52):
binge eating disorder, I was like, this is the way forward.
Started practicing it, started learning failing right, So I guess
probably mucking up and trying to combine weight loss with
intuitive eating in the early days. Realizing you can't do
and then leading into an intuitive eating. So now everyone
knows intuitive eating. Everyone listening is like, I know what
(10:13):
that is. Generally, back then you had to explain it
to everyone. Body image acceptance was not even a concept
out there, and so I really felt like I was
pushing against the norm and the standard practice of how
things were. It felt quite controversial to be doing what
I was doing. I felt like I needed to be
quite loud, and I tried to be loud. And you'd
(10:34):
certainly be going in those days to nutrition events and
there would be some heated arguments between different healthcare professionals
about the different approach because a new wave was coming
in and we were pushing out the we thought outdated
weight loss approach.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I think it is really underestimated the kind of burden
that an early adopter has to bear, because you do
take on the weight of fighting what has existed as
the norm for so long.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
To anyone else who's kind.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Of pioneering in their industry, do you have any advice
for that.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Early fight, Well, there's no road map. It would be
really nice if there was. It's not like I could
consult anyone who had done this before. I didn't have
a mentor I could ask in this space, and I
think that's a really hard thing. Is there's no rules,
and rules are really nice to follow. Sometimes personally, I'm
a bit of a risk taker. I don't like doing
the same thing. I am not the type of person
(11:26):
who likes routine or structure. I mean, I found that
hard when I became a mum, because suddenly structure was everywhere.
But I'm not the kind of person who's going to
go to a cafe and go to the same place.
So for me, the story I tell myself is, you know,
you get to choose the hard you want in your life,
and I simply was choosing the herd of the unknown,
so discomfort is completely unavoidable. It's hard to stay stuck
(11:49):
doing the same thing that everyone's done before. It's hard
to be a change maker and do something differently. It's
scary in its own way. I think they're both equal
levels of hard. So for me, I would just tell
myself the story you love change, even the way I
just explained it to you. Then I'll tell you I'm
someone who loves change. It's part of my identity and
how I come to define myself. I'm sure there are
times I love structure, but I don't lean into that
(12:11):
dialogue because I much prefer this idea of being someone
who loves constant change, which I think if you're going
into business is a really key thing.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
It's obviously a skill that has armed you really well
to keep evolving your business right from the very beginning.
Like we just mentioned, you kind of see that you've
made one big pivot. But for me, looking at you, know,
even the ten years i've known you, I'm like, there's
so many micro pivots, like constant evolution and growth. But
as you mentioned, change is really uncomfortable, and that's why
(12:54):
a lot of people steer away from it, because there's
fear of the unknown. There's just the difficulty level. There's
a lot of self talk when you're changing. So we
call this section the messy middle because it is so messy.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
But by the time I.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Had met you, the New Nutritionist was your brand, and
it was a big media brand. It was a big
presence that was so clear what you stood for. But
I'm sure it didn't begin that way. So when was
the moment where you thought, I'm going to actually make
this like an empire.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I'm going to give it a name.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I don't think I ever anticipated to have an empire.
I didn't you have one. I did have goals. I
was clear. I did write by five and ten year plan.
I was like, I would like it too. Yeah, I'd
like to write a book. I would like to do
a Ted talk. I would like to be on TV.
I remember I was fifteen years old. I was watching
Channel nine and Joanna McMillan, She's a big deal dietician
(13:53):
who I like, have the most respectful. She was on
Today's show and I was going, I was watching, going,
oh my goodness, that is the job I would absolutely
love to have. And so here I was, early twenties
now going okay, I think I'd be really good at
doing that gig. And so I positioned myself as a
media dietitian with zero zero skill set. I mean, listen,
(14:16):
I'm a drama kid from way back when, did lots
of speech lessons and competitions growing up, so I thought
I could do that kind of stuff. So what I
did is little seo hack. I was like, okay, media
dietitian and nutritionist, I'm gonna pop that all over my
website so that I'm going to become that person. I
guess that's an idea of manifesting, right, let me just
(14:36):
pour it out into the world, and the Internet responded
so essentially what happened one fateful day when I was
twenty one, exactly pretty much ten years ago to the day.
Producer called me in a panic. We have a slot
on Channel nine that we need to fill at eleven
am in the morning. Can you come in tomorrow to
the studio. We really need you. Okay, great, amazing. So
(14:57):
I go in. I have like a deer in the headlights,
doing my media interview on TV for the first time, scared,
no idea what I'm doing, and that is how I've
been doing Today Show for ten years. Through putting it
out there.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I actually didn't know any of that, and I love
so much how you didn't necessarily already.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
Have those opportunities presented to you.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
You were just like, I am not a media dietitian yet,
but I will just label myself one and then I'll.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Just figure it out. And did I feel like an impostor?
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Absolutely. I was like, she gotta fake it till she
makes it one. Do you know I met my husband
by splating into these dms on LinkedIn as well. But
that's a whole other story, guys. I know no way.
He's a good man too. And the point is, if
you want to get anything in life, I think the secret.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
Is to ask yes and to believe that you can,
because I think most people wouldn't necessarily reverse engineering like
that and just go, you know what.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I want to be a media dietitian, so I.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Will literally hack SEO to make sure I'm seen that way,
I think we'd spend way too much time in our
head being like, oh but I haven't done that before,
or how could I ever, like actually get.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Through a segment you just did it. I love that
a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
It takes balls, Yeah, it takes tits, It takes as
you said.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It's a definition of clips for that.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
But let's talk the logistics of this, because this is
building your sort of media brand that was happening alongside
your actual dietitian practice.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Yes, so at that point I was like, I'm going
to specialize in binge eating disorder. It's just been added
to the diagnostic criteria. So then it became so clear
that this became my specialty and no one else was
doing it. In fact, I would have clients from all
over the world because I was one of the few
people who was early on offering this kind of support.
I once again made an SEO play where I go, Okay,
(16:50):
she's a binge eating specialist. And then I could not
keep up with the demand. Wow, my practice was so busy.
I quit all the other jobs. I was seeing people
on the weekends before work, after work. And this point,
I have a two bedroom apartment and they are coming
into my spare bedroom no way, yeah, and not minding
one bit because we're doing the work. We're getting it done.
(17:13):
And at that point I had so many clients, I
was like, I need to scale, and the only way
to scale is to build an online version of what
I'm doing so that I can access more people, more
people can access the support I'm limited. I did think
about hiring other people, but I did think that that
would be a more effective way to kind of get
it in an affordable cost to more people. So built
(17:35):
my first online offering in twenty sixteen, I want to say,
at the same time, going on TV more frequently, getting
experience working out the time slot, so eleven am, then
it became ten am, then it became nine am and
then oh suddenly I was on like a little bit
more when people were not at the dentist watching TV,
which was exciting, and yeah, the practice was really busy.
(17:56):
But then I had to learn e comm right. I
had to learn this whole idea of how do you
sell digital programs and courses and there wasn't a precedent
for that being done with nutrition dietetics. It was all like, oh,
everything's moving online. E courses were booming, and so I
built a video program when video was way before video.
But I was like, how else do I do it?
And I needed to speak to my patients one on one.
(18:18):
So essentially took everything I would teach my clients and
it condensed it into a video course and that was
a great launch pad for my online business.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Gosh, I just love how much of this revolves around
the SEO play because I don't think I've ever heard
a story that was so targeted. It was like, I
want to be found by these people for this reason,
and that's how you create demand.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Thanks. I mean, I think it's just manifesting in the
new era.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Right again, from that logistical standpoint, because I think anyone
else who might be considering making a pivot in their life.
The parts we often skate over when we tell the
story is also the financial structure of how that happens.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Did you have a freedom fund that you had saved previously.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Were you earning money from your clients and then investing
that back into the business to record the videos?
Speaker 4 (19:07):
It's like, how are you funding everything?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It's a great question. I think I was really scrappy
in that I was really determined to do a lot
of things by myself. In hindsight, I think I would
have scaled a lot quicker had I actually invested in
the right things. I could see at that time a
lot of people investing a lot of money into branding,
like they had these most spectacular looking courses, and then
I'd get a quote from the same designer and it's
(19:30):
like twenty thousand dollars and I was like, Okay, I
think I'll just push some stuff around and make my
own little brand. And so I did that and that worked.
But I do regret not going harder quicker on that project.
And I was teaching myself SEO. I was teaching myself Canva,
being across these things and trying to do it all,
(19:51):
and I was I was saving money at an excellent job.
I was reinvesting into my business. I've consistently taken a
very low salary for my business. Everything gets reinvested into
my business. It's how I'm at the point i'm at now.
I couldn't have done any of this had I not
had some funding behind me to the business that I built.
But I certainly had to invest in the product. I
do think there's a lot of people who invest too
(20:12):
much money in their MVP. They get that minimal viable
product out and it's not a minimum viable product. It's
like an excellent product. Yeah that they waited way too
long to launch. And I've never been like that. I
launched things like my program my app. I look back
at earlier versions of them and I go, gosh, that's embarrassing.
I cringe. Cringe is such a key part of how
I think I do my work, because if I waited
(20:35):
until I wasn't cringe, I would never have started. I
think the key to success is embarrassment, and I'm not
afraid to unlock it with some embarrassment. And I know
I have looked back to my content and thought, oh,
we humbled myself. We started somewhere. But I do very
much review and reflect my work really frequently, particularly with
(20:56):
video content. I make myself look back at everything and
it's really hard to watch.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
And that's a humbling experience, still painful.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, but I do it, and I think that's how
you kind of get these little micro improvements and adjustments.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
I'm such a similar personality type as you in business
in that if I don't cringe at my original iterations
of something, I'm like, well, I haven't developed enough. It's
a sign that you've adapted and learned if you look back.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
And go, oh, like, what is that?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
So I think that that internal dialogue we tell ourselves
sometimes where you do just have to get something out there.
For example, when I launched my app, I didn't launch
with a one hundred thousand dollar bill because one hundred
thousand dollars. Instead, I launched with that basic version that
I could proved up concept. Sure there's demand for this
now I can justify making that investment, And I wish
more people did that.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
I think that's such excellent advice.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
I often say done is better than perfect because it
is a timely thing in this day and age, like
there are so many competitors. They are barriers to entry
for a lot of products, and sometimes it is about timing.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
You want to be the.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
First to market and you want to get it out
there and not hamstring yourself with trying to get it perfect,
because you could end up never launching something is a
lot of internal dialogue about.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
Oh, but like what if it fails?
Speaker 3 (22:11):
There is imposter syndrome that comes with that, going how
would you advise someone else who is launching something and
they're worried about releasing it now.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
I think one of the stories we tell ourselves is
it's been done before. Other people are doing this, they're
already doing it better than me. Who am I to
be doing something like this? And if you think about it,
that's phony, that's nonsense. If you've ever received advice from
your mum and she was like, you know what, I
think you look really great with bangs and you're like, mom, no,
(22:41):
your best friend can tell you the exact same thing,
and suddenly when it comes out of her lips, you go, oh,
that fully resonates. I really get that. So sometimes we're
just looking for the right person to give us the
right advice at the right time. So even if you're
coming into a market and it is more saturated than
you'd like, there is always room for your perspective. So
I think that's a huge barrier where people talk themselves
out of even attempting it in the beginning because they're
(23:05):
worried they're too late, too late.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
But I also love that because I think sometimes we
believe our idea has to be the first, or like
something brand new, and if someone else has done it,
you're like, I'll self select out of that and I won't.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
Even give it a go. You don't have to do
something new, you just have to do it differently or
better than the other person.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
And I think that's such a valuable thing that you
have obviously been able to apply because you have kept
evolving in markets where obviously people have invented apps before,
and obviously there's a lot of different options in food
and nutrition, and yet you were like, no, mine still
has a place in the market, and you just got
on with it and did it. So how did you
then pivot into tech? You know, you've just kept taking
(23:46):
these huge leaps, which you mentioned at the start.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
You didn't really see them as pivots.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Yeah, I just saw them as extensions of my business.
But now that you frame it like that, sure it
did feel like an totally uncharted territory. Now I'm building
an app. I know nothing about app development, and my
husband at that point joins my business. I was like,
I need to scale and I need someone who's my
right or die. And he's excellent. He's a lawyer by trade,
(24:10):
he's studied commerce as well, so a great skill set
to bring to my lack of number away.
Speaker 4 (24:19):
So he's a visionary and so.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
He does all that kind of stuff. And from that
point just started to understand the whole new world integration.
And I think fundamentally, if you're running a business these days,
you have to be so across the tech and how
things talk to each other in different apps, and constantly
stay on top of it. Like AI at the moment,
super fun. I'm so into it. It's such a wildly
cool thing to be experiencing in our time.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
What about the process of finding a developer, because I
think another thing that feels really scary when you first
have an idea. If anyone out there has an idea
for an app, it's well, how would I actually build it?
And I think we just don't know how people start
their businesses like the very first day, do you google it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Google is how I started.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
We went on really, oh that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
I'm pretty sure how to app Yeah, I'm pretty sure.
We would have gone on a fiver And I think
got some quotes based on the scope of work, so
like lay out what are we looking for, what are
the functionality pieces that we need, and then we spoke
to a few developers. We ended up finding someone in
Ukraine who was excellent and became a really great key
(25:25):
partner for us, and we needed to take advice. So
we also spoke to a lot of friendlies, so in
our community, people that we know who may have started
different apps. And I think, you know, coming back to
remembering how I got my first gig, I got it
through the people I know. And I think there's a
lot of opportunity just sitting there are the people that
you know and you know, sliding into some dms and
just like saying hi to some people, no not everyone's
(25:48):
going to want to sit down and have a coffee.
I think you can just send one one quick question
in an email. You're much more likely to get a
response from someone than asking them for a whole coffee date.
But essentially we're asking people for advice and we ended
up with a web based app. And the benefit of
web based app was way cheaper, way easier for a
developed to kind of execute. It meant that people could
(26:09):
do workouts and access the recipes from their desktop and
didn't have to be on a phone. And then once
we got the web based app, cool, now let's make
it into an app app as you know it. And
that was a whole separate build and then you got
to do Android after that, and I was exhausted by
at that point.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
But it is really interesting that you didn't do it
all at once. And I think that's the other thing
that holds people back is I think I need to
go straight to the final version and I need to
have everything.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
All in one go.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
And it's like, actually start the web based app first,
like tested it with the market, or grow into the
final product.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, And once again, I look back at my early
stuff that I put out there, and it was grainy
and average. I have my USPS super clear, and I
always have my USPS, my unique selling points super clear
on all of my products. And how I believe I'm
going to own a unique white space in the market
that I'm entering, and certainly with my app, I certainly
felt it's the non diet approach to doing all these
(27:03):
healthy things. It was still kind of coming through and
that was super key for me to be able to
do that.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
And then at this point a lot of listeners would
be thinking, sure, these are all the pivots that she's done,
and we're not even up to the main pivot yet,
because you have then gone on to not just conquer
the world of apps and tech, but to start a
swimwear line, which is a complete pivot into the fashion
industry and manufacturing. Again, how do you even switch industries?
(27:31):
How did you know that you had a new idea
twenty eighteen?
Speaker 1 (27:35):
I mean Portugal.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Wow, it was like a moment.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
It was a moment. I remember I was sitting by
a pool pre kids fun days and I said to
my husband, I think I think we should have a
swimsuit label. I think that is the future for us.
He's like, there's a million swimsuit labels. I was like,
you're right, park the idea.
Speaker 4 (27:56):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Then kids happen, COVID happens, it all happens, and we
come out of this to be honest, I see the
AI revolution coming. I'm like, I think this is going
to fund thement transform a lot of businesses. I think
a an online business like myself that sells digital assets
is not immune from AI coming in and doing stuff.
(28:17):
I looked into doing a food product for a good
year and I looked into the margins and the commercials
did not stack up for me. Essentially, you have to
sell so much food to get the margins, so how
much you're going to earn per product? Right? And I
was like, that's a massive play. It scared me, so
(28:38):
I tapped out of that concept after a really significant
amount of looking into that as a potential, and that's
when the idea for swim it had percolated my brain.
Every six months I'd go, hey, Lens, I reckon, we
should do the swimsuit thing, Like, I really think there's
legs to it. He's like, I don't believe it. And
that's when it became crystal clear to me what white
space we would occupy for feelss this new swimsuit label
(29:01):
and for me, I see it as I think there
are a lot of swimsuits that are designed for girls
who can wear string bikini. The rest of us who
wants to have our bum covered, you know, not in
a G string. It's kind of hard to find these days.
I was like, those are my people, the ladies who
want to have like a degree of like full coverage. Well,
you have pretty full coverage. You're just not worried about
(29:22):
it a nip slip of the beach either. You know
you're not going to dive under a wave and for
your entire boob to fall out.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
We've all been there.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Those are my people. That's you listening. I created feelers
for you, and then I basically was like, Okay, I
think I have this idea. Let me throw it out
onto Instagram and see And then Instagram was like, people
like this way better than the rest of the shit
you wants who Instantly the results were there. People were like,
this is amazing. Yes we want bum coverage, Yes we
(29:49):
want to ow boobs to stay in our suicides. And
the momentum was there from the very start, and so
I started asking people, Okay, what do you want? How
much bum coverage? Do you want fixed straps, thin straps?
Do you want molded cups? Do you want removable cups?
What fabric? Oh my godness, how many questions can I
ask you. My best performing story set I think I've
ever done was pulling people on what features they wanted.
(30:12):
I think for the customer for the first time to
be like, oh, someone's listening, someone's really taking notes. She
wants to know and I want to vote. I want
to tell her the things that I love and things
that I hate. And I was using it like data
as excellent data and.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
I think market research in real time.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Fundamentally, I was able to get ten thousand women in
my key demographic to answer information within twenty four hours
and get really statistically significant results. So it really felt
like I was leaning into my nutrition skill set that
I had got a science degree, which I thought, well,
I won't need that for design work. But fundamentally, I
think that's why it's been so successful. We have taken
(30:49):
data and we've applied that science lens to design to
understand exactly the level of things that women want, and
then we've applied it and made it happen so really quickly.
On in the piece, I realized, Okay, so fifteen thousand
women join my waitlist. It's fifteen thousand outrageous.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
I had a.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
Thousand swimsuits to sell. But what was really early on
in the piece is realizing that forty nine percent of
women said that they wear a different sized top to bottom,
and then ninety nine percent of women said they wanted
to wear a one piece. But I was like, okay,
but then what do you do if you're a different size?
And so it came to me the idea of doing
(31:27):
what we call magic sizing. Magic sizing is a world
first where it's a one piece that you can purchase
in a different sized top to bottom. So for that
forty nine percent of women, which is not a niche,
that is a humongous number of women who have been
completely neglected by this idea because no one sat down
and bothered to go, oh, how are women shaped? Not
like Barbie, who knew how wild? And so we have
(31:50):
consistently just taken measurements from women to realize how outdated
size charts are, which is why when you go into
a change room to try in a swimsuit, you cry,
and it turns into what was meant to be a
really exciting experience into something that humbles you and humiliates you.
To be honest, and I hate that women think it's
their body that's the problem, and not the swimsuits. So
(32:11):
we here to change the swimsuits so you don't have
to feel like you have to lose weight to feel
comfory at the beach.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
And do you know what's so incredible about all of that,
There's that age old story of the overnight success. It
looks like you woke up one day you had the idea,
and the next day you did the research and then
you started the business. But I love reminding everyone you
sat on this idea for a while. A pivot can start,
like the seeds can be laid years and years before
you actually do anything about it. And that's also okay,
(32:37):
Like there's something about timing being right.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Fundamentally, none of this would be possible without the thirteen
years of new nutritionist experience and of getting the funds
sorted so that when I was ready, I had an audience,
I had the funds, I had the team, I had
the skill set and the hutzpah to make it happen.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
And I love that there's this narrative we tell ourselves
sometimes of like, well, that was a waste of time
because I left that career. But nothing is a waste
all those experiences and skins culminate in the pivot, and
you have obviously applied all of that into making Fearless.
This incredible, incredible business. Did you have much fear around it?
Speaker 1 (33:19):
This is the scariest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Well, that's reassuring because it does sound like it came
like crystal.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
Clear to you that you were supposed to do this.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Every year I pick a word, not like a uo's resolution,
but like a word and intention. This year it's fearst
my word. I am so scared every single day. In fact,
this year has been such a hard year in that
I am constantly in discomfort of change. Nothing is the same,
And I think one of the key things that I've
done is I'm taking responsibility. I'm owning that I have
(33:49):
full autonomy in my life and there are levers I
can pull to change things and get things done. But
holy moly, I have no idea what I'm doing, and
I'm just trying to learn as I go. And it's
been fantastic because I've really starting to reap the rewards
of being so brave. But it feels really hard.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
I think that's one of the huge keys to how
successful feel. This has already been, and that's been that
you have taken everyone along on the journey. Not only
have you been polling people and paying attention to their
responsors to make people feel really valued that they're being
listened to, but you've also shared when it has been
really hard, like you've intimately documented when things haven't really
(34:30):
gone right, or when samples have arrived and you're not
happy with them.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
And that makes people feel really part of a community.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
Yeah, and I think there are some downsides to that.
It's been quite hard to get any media group to
take us seriously because all they do is they'll go
on on my Instagram and go, well, it looks like
there's lots of issues in your business, and I every
business has issues. I'm just being transparent about them, and
I'm talking about them, and I'll talk about how much
things cost as well, which I think some people can
(34:56):
be a bit offended by. But I want you to know.
So we did our pre order and we made two
hundred thousand in twenty four hours. We sold out. It
was kubum kubum, and it was incredible, but we had
to put in hundreds of thousands of dollars. I think
one hundred and eighty thousand dollars was the first amount
that we put into getting stock for our swimsuits. Before
(35:18):
I'd sold one swimsuit. We were backing ourselves, going we
think the data is there, we think that people are there,
but until that moment of going we think we have something.
It was an incredibly scary ledge and I want to say, like,
this is mine and my husband's savings that we've built
up over doing everything we've done up to this point.
We have shared a lot of the low lights as well,
(35:38):
and I think it's really nice to have business owners
who are telling you, like what's going wrong, because it's
so much going wrong all the time. And I think
these are just really important questions to be asking ourselves
how much are we willing to sacrifice? Because you might
write your goal list, so these are the things I want,
you also need to write a sacrifice list right next
to it. That is sacrifice list, selling out what you
will give up in exchange for these goals to achieve them.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
That is so powerful.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
So I think that's such a really important reminder to
remember the sacrifices that you're making as well. But now
obviously you are still partly in the messy middle of
this big pivot, but you've also come out the other
(36:24):
end in that the business has launched and it's doing
absolutely incredibly. I mean, you're wearing one of the absolutely
magnificent red one piece swimsuits that everyone that you've walked
past has commented on. It's exquisite. What does your day
to day look like now that your post launch you're
running the show? How do you see yourself? Title wise,
(36:46):
two kids, two businesses. Yeah, seeoh, fashion designer, nutritionist, tech founder.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
It's wild. Seven weeks ago, I was working from home
with my husband and one other employee. Now we have
an office space that we're outgrowing because I like I'm
hiring a new employee once a week. At the moment,
it's not just building a team around us, an exceptional
team and really just seeking out those people who are
going to be great cultural fits. So building that and
(37:13):
that's a wild thing. I think I see myself as
more creative director of this business and being super aware
of where we're going. A co founder, but I think
the word CEO is a very glamorized concept. Happy for
my husband to own that one, because it requires a
lot of people management, A lot of being across the numbers,
(37:34):
a lot of nitty gritty. Don't get me wrong, I'm
happy to get stuck in on all that stuff, but
I do think I need to be that person looking
to the future going, oh, we can sell simsuits without
selling the thin ideal. Let me show you how we're
going to do that. And I think that was so
exciting about the pre order. The fact that we have
done so well is we aren't designing some suits for
a size zero mannequin or photoshop version. We know who
(37:57):
we're designing for, and that's my geek now keeping us
clear that we want to create some suits for the
ninety one percent of women who feel completely overlooked by
the industry. And I have to paint that picture for
the rest of the team so they know where we're
going on this. But it is really fun design, I
have to say. And you know what I think about
now is I went to a school that it really
encouraged us to study whatever we wanted to for HC,
(38:20):
and I studied design and fashion design. Did you yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:25):
Full circle moment.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
See dumb. At the time, I was like, cool, I'll
do PDHPE, I'll do some signs I'll throw in the
things I need for nutrition, But hey, I really like
art and I really like fashion design. So those are
my fun ones. And what do you know, came full
circle and used a lot of those skills. I grew
up with my mum sewing my dresses for formal I
would sew my clothes. I'd be with my friends, like
(38:46):
you know, stitching things up. After my dad died, I
got into a hobby of sewing swimsuits. I wanted something
that was going to make me feel great. So I'm
sewing swimsuits and going, okay, let me modify this, let
me do this. And so I think I understand basically
how construction works as well, which is a really nice
addition to have in the skill set. So by what
I'm saying is no, sometimes you think I'm doing this
(39:09):
little hobby or this little thing, it feels like a
little detour. But a lot of these things you end
up bringing back to you and now you know, twenty
years on from that, I'm going, Wow, what a cool
thing that I had a hobby that I now use.
And you don't have to monetize all your hobbies, but
you know what, if you can and money off you
might as well why not.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
And that's such a good point because I think in
every pivot that we've had on the show so far,
the dots connect so clearly. In hindsight, it's just like, wow,
it all makes sense. But you just have to trust
the process sometimes, I think, because when you're going through
the process, it can feel really messy, it can be
really confusing. It can be kind of like, how are
these skills relevant? And what I learned from the past experiences.
(39:47):
But it's so interesting that you've started with fashion design. Yeah,
and now you're back.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Here, and if you think about it, it's such a
beautiful cross relationship between nutrition and eating disorders. Yeah, swimsuit
is not a fabric issue. It's a body image issue.
It's solving that and Ei, there are so many brands
and no one's talking about body image. The fact that
we feel like that walk from the towel to the
water's edge feels like we're on a runway and everyone's
staring at us. This is a body image thing to solve.
(40:14):
And that's why I feel like I'm uniquely positioned to
actually do this's because of my entire nutrition career.
Speaker 4 (40:20):
One of the things that you have done that.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
I also think is extraordinary is every time you pivot,
you don't drop the last project, you just add another one.
And you're a mum, So how do you now juggle
swapping between those things? A lot of mums have that
guilt between mum life and work life, but then you've
got lots of different babies.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I as someone who loves change and hates systems, I've
come a long way and I'm really into systems. I
like streamlining things, I like automating things. Fundamentally, I think
about my business as a content machine, and so I
think that's the fundamental pivot really is that I went
from realizing I was a nutritionist to oh, I do
content and that's what I do and everything can kind
(41:01):
of fall into that umbrella. And realizing that was kind
of critical. But how I juggle it? And I I'm
really going through a metamorphos at the moment, trying to
find my balance between this and I'm simplifying things in
my life that I can simplify. So I don't want
a fussy garden, for example. I don't have time for that.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
I don't know how you have time for anything.
Speaker 1 (41:22):
I need to outsource things wherever I can. I think
the biggest lesson I learned from becoming a mum was
that resentment was a clue that you needed more help.
I found that after I had kids. I was so angry.
I felt so much resentment that I so much fell
on me as the mom and the mental load and
it was so heavy. And it wasn't that I needed
a divorce.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I just need to support.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I needed support, yea right. And for some people they
can get that internally from family, and some people need
to hire that help. And I'm at that point now
where I'm going I need a combo of all these
things and I need to get support. And you know,
you can't just have one single point of failure. So
you can't just have one person you're relying on, because
what happens if they're sick, your entire world falls apart.
(42:05):
So you need the systems and the protocol so that
you have different people helping you in different ways. And
I'm not afraid of that anymore.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I love that when you identify an area that you
struggle with, that you just kind of work really hard
on it until you don't struggle with it anymore.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
There's a lot of struggle.
Speaker 4 (42:20):
No, but we all have struggle.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
It's just not a lot of us are as efficient
at overcoming the struggle.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I feel like you're really good at.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
Identifying when something isn't serving you and going well, I'll
just learn how to get through that.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
It's very efficient.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
I think my mantro at the moment is take responsibility,
you know, and things. I don't want to feel like
I'm a victim in my life, Like I just want
to feel like I have choices here. I can make decisions,
I can make calls. You know I used to do.
I used to be the biggest procrastinator. You would never oh, yeah,
huge among this procrastinator.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
I was kind of imagine it.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
You'd be like like, oh, you know, I don't know.
I want to write a really good email, so I'll
email that person later. Mark is unread use my inbox
as a to do list. And then Roxy just Senko
sent me an email. I was a nobody at this time.
I send her an email. She sends me an email
back like ten minutes later, and.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
That always overwhelms me.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
When it's someone like super super busy and successful, I'm like,
how that was it?
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I was like, how do you have time for me
and nobody. And then I looked at the email and
it was a highly efficient, scrappy email. Did I care
that the formatting was not there? No, I didn't care.
I was delighted to get such an efficient response. And
that is how roxy just saying go helped me become
ten times more effective at what I do. I do
not wait for the perfect email. I will send you
an email on the fly. I don't want to be
(43:32):
a handbrake in my business, and I can be a
handbake my business. And I've got all these people who
need to ask me questions. I am very happy to
make quick decisions, even if I'm getting ten percent of
them wrong. I'd rather that than delaying things so much
because I'm scared of making the wrong decision. That in
action has left me. And the more I've practiced just
(43:54):
making a quick decision, the easier it's getting to make
these quick decisions. What it feels like is I'm I'm
not leaving stuff for future me. It's a gift for
future me. It's as simple as putting stuff straight into
the dishwasher, gift for future me. I'm constantly giving gifts
for future me.
Speaker 4 (44:10):
Oh my God, I've never thought of it like that before.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
In little ways because future me she doesn't have time.
Oh future me is busy, and that's helped a lot.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
I have never conceptualized it as a gift for future me,
but thinking about past you, if you could give past
you before all these pivots a gift, a piece of advice,
anything to guide her.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
What would you say.
Speaker 1 (44:36):
I think the advice I give is it sounds generic,
but do it scared, do it before you're ready. If
you're not scared, you are waiting too long. You've gotta
be terrified. I feel so terrified in what I'm doing
right now, and I'm truly just taking all the advice
I can possibly get from people. So if my customers
(44:56):
are like, we like that neckline, I'm like, cool, We're
going to make that happen and running with it. I'm terrified.
Every single day I'm going through a massive growth phase.
So I guess that's a fun way of thinking about it.
That growth has to come with being scared, Otherwise you're
staying in your comfort zone.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
That is such powerful and excellent advice for anyone listening,
because I do think as humans, our default is comfort,
and so our default is to not do it until
we're not scared, and that day never comes. So what
an empowering way to end. Thank you so much for
sharing so vulnerably and openly, and I cannot wait to
see what happens from this next chapter of yours me too.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Thanks for tuning in to Pivot Club. We'll be back
in your feed next week with another brand new episode.
Be sure to hit follow wherever you get your podcasts
so you don't miss it.
Speaker 1 (45:52):
And if you loved this chat, we would be so.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
Grateful if you could share it with a friend or
leave us a rating and a review. This episode of
Pivot Club was produced by Sally Best. The executive producer
is Courtney Abenhauser.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
We'll catch you next time. Mumma Mere acknowledges the traditional
owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded
on
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