November 3, 2025 • 43 mins
What happens when your entire identity is built on being the best in the world? For Jana Pittman, one of Australia's most famous athletes, the singular goal of Olympic gold was repeatedly torn away by devastating injuries and gut-wrenching losses.
You might think her biggest pivot was swapping the running track for the bobsled, becoming one of the very few athletes in history to compete in both the Summer and Winter Olympics.
But that wasn't it. Her real pivot was walking away entirely from being an elite athlete to become a doctor - all while raising six children.
In this episode of Pivot Club, Sarah Davidson speaks with Jana about this massive career change. They unpack how you cope with failure when your mindset is "silver is the first loser", and how you go from being one of the best in the world to a complete beginner back at the bottom of the ladder, surrounded by people half your age.
Jana shares the unfiltered story about how this profound pivot emerged from a period of intense personal and professional struggle - through divorce, miscarriages, failed exams and the financial lows of moving back into her own garage to make ends meet.
Join us for a raw lesson in resilience, a look into the unseen "messy middle," and a powerful reminder that your lowest moments can be the fuel for your greatest chapter yet.
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CREDITS:
Guest: Jana Pittman
Host: Sarah Davidson
Executive Producer: Courtney Ammenhauser
Senior Producer: Sally Best
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Have you found yourself on the path everyone expects you
to take, only to realize it doesn't lead to where
you want to go anymore? That feeling when you realize
you're climbing a ladder that's leaning up against the wrong wall.
This is Pivot Club and I'm your host. Sarah Davidson,
a fellow member of the Pivot Club. My path life
was as an em and a lawyer. I'd done everything
(00:39):
I'd mapped out and was supposed to do before I
completely pivoted to launch my own business, matcha Maiden. But
today isn't about my story. It's about someone who didn't
just question their path, but had the courage to step
off and build their own. Here where, I'm packing professional
plot twists and finding out what it takes to define
success on your own terms. So let's dive into their
(01:02):
story of intuition, bravery and what happens when you decide
to join the Pivot Club. You'll recognize today's guest as
one of Australia's most famous athletes. Yanna Pittman, the world
champion hurdler whose singular goal of Olympic gold was repeatedly
torn away by devastating injuries and gut wrenching losses until
(01:22):
her time on the track came to an end. You
might think her biggest pivot was swapping the running track
for the bobslid, becoming one of the very few athletes
in history to compete in both the Summer and Winter Olympics.
But that wasn't it. Her real pivot was walking away
from that identity entirely to become a doctor, all while
(01:43):
raising six children. And that's the pivot we're talking about today.
How do you cope with failure when your mindset is
silver is the first loser? And how do you go
from being one of the best in the world to
a complete beginner at the bottom of the ladder, surrounded
by people half your age. This is an incredibly candid
conversation about how that massive career change was born on
(02:05):
her darkest days, divorce, miscarriages, failed exams, and the financial
loads of moving back into her own garage to make
ends meet. This is a role lesson in resilience that
unseen messy middle and how your lowest moments can be
fuel for your greatest chapter Yet, Yana, Welcome to Pivot club.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Thank you, Sarah. It's so nice to see you, and
it's interesting with obviously a friendship we've had for many,
many years. I didn't even know what was going to
be you, but I'm very excited to be.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh my god, of course I'm really happy for you.
I am so excited to have you, guys, and it's
so so lovely to have you because not only are
you possibly the person who has made the most incredible,
impressive and diverse range of pivots, but that I feel
very lucky to have been there for a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's right. I mean your husband, now, yeah, was my
training partner almost twenty years ago. So yeah, so we
knew each other twenty years ago, and that it was
leading into the Athens and the Beijing Olympics, that we
were all we were training together, and so yes, you
have you walked down that road with me through the
tears and the gut ranging changes and decisions and the
indecisions and the false starts and the backfires, and now
(03:13):
we're here, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
But above all, I think the overarching theme has been
you just are irrepressible. You will just find a way.
I wasn't going to do this, but I have to
you will leap over the herd no matter what it is.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But that has kind of been my motto for life,
and I mean it does work, be heard or obviously,
But I've learned so many times that the days you
think you're at your worst and your lowest tend to
be the days you pivot into something so much more special.
You just got to be present and aware of it.
And I wasn't at the time. Don't get me wrong.
I feel like a lot of my pivots and my
changes have happened thankfully to an incredible support system around me,
(03:52):
of which you were a part of that for a
long time, which allowed me to take on new challenge.
But I've also not been afraid of that failure, so
probably because of sport. You know, it does you fail
so often. You know, there's one winner in a race
and seven to eight losers, let's be real, so that
it loses from very early on. Oh goshcha, some things
don't go to plan, and that you pick yourself up
(04:12):
and you keep going. And so that is a real
blessing out of kids doing sport and building that resilience
early gosh.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I mean, you must have such a thick skinned. I mean,
we all kind of have this attitude of certificate of participation,
like when you were trying and then the athletes come
into the room and they're like.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Silver is the first loser. It's different, is it?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It's so funny you say that, and you know me
well enough that it's quite interesting that we're going straight
into this. But I have definitely got a thick skin
when it comes to failure, but an incredibly thin one
when it comes to public perception. And it's something that
I've battled, that imposter syndrome all the time, and I'm now,
you know, I do a lot of public speaking these days.
And I got actually asked an amazing question yesterday by
someone in the audience who sort of said, what drove
(04:52):
you as a young person, because you've taken on medicine,
and you've taken on multiple children, and you know, one
Summer Olympics and then Winter Olympics and all those changes.
And it wasn't until a couple of years ago that
I started to really reflect that a lot of it
was me trying to prove to myself that I was
good enough and that I was okay, and that I
was worthy, and there was a lot of underlying guilt there,
trying to impress myself rather than others. And I thought
(05:13):
it was an external I thought it was that extrinsic
drive to be liked, but it was actually that I
hadn't actually come to terms with who I was as
a person and like who I was in the mirror.
And so it's not like that anymore. I definitely have
a much better sense of self. I think so many
of us feel that way in life, in that we
look at our why and we're always asked to question
what is our why? Why are you doing something? What's
going to get you out of bed to take on
(05:33):
a new challenge? And why do you do things? And
it's okay for that to be different throughout different periods
of life, and I wouldn't change it. Don't get me wrong.
Having that insecurity as a young person has given me
this resume that I'm incredibly proud of and as you
should be, and built that resilience, yeah, you know, because
I wasn't prepared to fail, because I was trying to
prove to myself, and so I failed over and over again,
and then that resilience just organically built so trying to
(05:57):
bottle that now and then teach other people to work
with it, like my own kids.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That is such a profound reflection to have after so
many chapters that you have had. And I want to
start actually by going back to your past life or
your very first chapter that propelled you onto the scene,
particularly because that's when a lot of Australia met you. So,
I mean, your identity to so many of us was
Yana Pitman the athlete, or Yana Pitman in the Olympian
(06:22):
And we know what it looked like from the outside.
But the reason you hadn't had these revelations yet is
because you were a teenager aent I so young, So
what did it look like on the inside when you
were first grappling with your why look?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I think there was a couple of things. I mean,
it helped that I loved to run, okay, so that
was a very functional reason to do something. Yeah, I
loved how it made you feel. I was very lucky
as a young person to have quite good mental health.
So I was quite just just a happy, go lucky
kind of kid, very good support system in my parents,
and so therefore I just did it because I loved
it and afterwards felt great. You know, you push hard, dispue,
(06:58):
you feel crap, and then you feel great afterwards. You
do though, and there'll be lots of gym junkies that
listen to this and you do. You have that like,
oh gosh, this is going to hurt so much, but
that revelation afterwards of how great you feel. And that's
typically of the four hundred meters, which is the event
that I ran, So that part of it was a
big driver. There was al also that identity space. So
I've always been quirky, always been a little different. I
(07:20):
would definitely say I have quite a lot of neurodiversity.
I haven't been diagnosed, but I'm a doctor after all,
so I can get the self diagnosed that space, and
I wouldn't be too hard to get it done, for
it's pretty obvious. But I always struggled to make friends
as young as a young girl, and so in school
I say the wrong things or do you know, make it,
make a silly statement and someone would sort of give,
(07:42):
you know, pick on you a little before It's still
I'm still a bit vulnerable about that. And sport wasn't
like that because I'd go on the track, and I
was just good. I mean, most of the thing when
I was a young girl was like I had infected
mosquito bites for boobs, and was I lesbian? And all
these constant labels that I was getting still school even
after breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I'm like, wow, you can.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Pay for them and they're fine, you know, I remember those.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, that's true, that's true. There is a solution.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
But it was just a time in life where I
felt great about myself. So sport for me was an elevator.
It was, and certainly the first ten to fifteen years
of my early career, so sort of you know, age
twelve and up to about twenty three, twenty four, it
was nothing but wonderful. Just an incredible opportunity to get
out and explore the world, making wonderful friends who are
like minded, and just feel really solid and good in yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And what an incredibly unique experience to be so driven
by joy and not it was by societal expectations. You
look gravitating towards something because you loved doing it and
it felt good, and that is so pure. It was
lovely and that you actually happened to be really good
at it.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, I was very lucky. It was, like I said,
it was incredibly pure, and I do have that memory
of it. I remember just feeling sheer enjoyment. Don't mean wrong.
I was nervous, and yeah, I've done many eRASS where
I almost didn't raise because of fear. In fact, one time,
the first time I ever would have run against Kathy Free,
when I cracked myself and hit in the coll room
and didn't go and then blamed an injury that wasn't there.
So I had that fear and anxiety already, but again
(09:07):
came down to I've got to look like an idiot
and that whole perception thing. But ninety nine percent of
the time I got on that track and just loved it.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, speaking of the perception thing, I think what's really
hard when you do love something so much and when
it's such a public pursuit, is that not only do
you come to know yourself through your sport, but everyone
else then that's the label that they attached to you.
And so should you dare want to be known for
something else in your life, you know, it's really hard
(09:37):
for other people to peel that back, but also for you.
So back then, how much of your identity was around
being an elite athlete.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's a great question, and I think it becomes that. Yeah,
it becomes your identity, which is why you know, so
many athletes struggle in retirement because that identity is shifted
so and often it's abruptly where you go from top
of the world to injured out. Yeah, you know, yesterday's
news kind of thing, and that can be a bit
of a challenge. It has the added complexity of you
stopped training as well, and then endorphin and adrenaline rush
(10:06):
that you get with the training and the highs of
competition is removed, and that is tricky and it can
really bottom out some people. For sure, it did for
me for at least a couple of months to a year.
They think it was just a chapter that we had
to go through to make that change down the track,
and it worked for me.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, what about the day to day of it, Like,
I think we also saw you in Sydney and we'd
see the big runs that were like the one percent
of all your actual life strike But don't really understand
unless you were also an athlete what it took for
you to live that life, Like, what was your training
like you were at school, right.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I never found that hard. Surah. Well, it was also
all I ever knew, which I kind of comes to
that identity question again. But you know, I started running.
I went to my first Olympic Games when I was
only so I qualified at sixteen and went at seventeen.
So yes, that was during the school years. And you know,
in my final high school year in year twelve, only
went to school for I can't even remember now, but
some like thirty days or so. So it was a
pretty much homeschool, which wasn't really done as much back then. Yeah,
(11:04):
and my mother did all my academic stuff and whatnot.
I did my exams and an embassy in Chile for
example for the HSC, So it was at two o'clock
in the morning, I might add in between the heats
and the semi finals of the World Junior Championship. So
it was it was just that was normal. Like people
say that's nuts, like what But for me, I'm like, well,
what option did I have. I can't miss my HSC
because I want to I wanted to be a doctor,
(11:24):
and I'm not missing the World Championship. So we make
it happen. It's the beginning of you. I just have
to do it. I've got to do it, by the way.
So yeah, so I think that that was part of
that journey. And it's great as long as you have
outlets as well. Whereas, because you're right, it was a
seven day a week, I didn't have my social life.
(11:45):
I trained and I studied, and I trained and then
I studied, and there wasn't much else in my life
outside of that. And that's okay for me, but it's
absolutely not okay for other people. I'd say I'm abnormal,
not the norm, and don't get me wrong with others
who will be, you know, hearing and feeling. Oh yeah,
I'm like that too. We're just we are a different,
different breed and some of us survive on that and
(12:06):
others then have big falls. And I've had those big
falls too, and so it does take a toll eventually,
and you've just got to kind of work out where
you sit and what I guess weapons or avenues you
have to get out when things don't go to plan.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, speaking of I think another thing that has really
plagued you from very early is I mean, people often
take a lifetime to reach their dreams, but at a
very young age. You had got to the pinnacle of
your sport and you know, having all kinds of successes,
but then also facing devastating injuries. It's constant, yeah, And
I know how constant that was you And Nick has
(12:40):
spoken about how it is identity crushing for an athlete
to have your physicality removed from you. How did you
get through when you suddenly just couldn't run.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Not well? And that's the human side of me, you know,
So like I definitely broke hard. Thankfully, I break very
hard for twenty four hours usually, and it's been a
skill I've had even in medicine. Now, so I am
an explosion and then it's gone. I have a process
and look, it's funny, and I think that's what happened
to early, like twenty five years ago, exploding on a
(13:10):
state that was just bad, right, And it's all about
being humble and being a quiet athlete and letting your
performance speak for it. And I was a little too late. Now,
you know, the Kardashians and everyone's all over there with
all these emotions that are huge, and we think it's great.
People are authentic, But that initially was why. So I
got some of the negative media when I was a
young person, because I was so emotive. That was actually
my coping mechanism and I didn't realize it at the time,
but that's what made me good, so good at what Yeah,
(13:33):
because I was able to go home process it quickly.
And I was never mean to anybody publicly. I was
always like you suck to myself as and I did
a really deep dive of this is so painful, this
hurts so much, have a really good cry, go for
a really hard run, eat three blocks of chocolate, and
it was over. Yeah, you get it out. It worked.
And I'm in a career now which I know we'll
get to where there's lots of good and bad outcomes. Yeah,
(13:54):
all the time. And look, I'm a lot more placid now.
I'll go for a very hard run. I need half
a block of chocolate. But it's still work. You've scouted
at that. I scouted back. But I'm a huge believer
when stuff doesn't go to plan. I know, we come
from a country which we hold onto our emotions well.
And you know, I grew up with a dad who's
like he's a cup of concrete. Suckert up, Princess, get
over yourself. You know, there's other people that are in
the world. You know, I come from all that exactly stoicism.
(14:16):
That's perfect, but I think there's a time and place
where that actually backfires on you really badly. Yeah, until
you're unable to face your fears because you're so afraid
of things happening again, because you haven't actually processed the
last time something went wrong, whereas I'm a processor. Yeah,
a little too publicly at times.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
But it's incredible that now you can actually put a
label on that and see that it's a repeat mechanism
that actually helps you get the emotions out rather than
sitting on them.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You get them out. But then you passed it, and
you passed it. And my mum has been my placid.
She was a careers adviser as a teacher in a school,
and she was my person, my leveler, my mirror holder,
you know, in other words, Yanna back off, Yeah, you're
buggering this all the time. But also my greatest advocate.
You know, she was the one who always picked things
up when it wasn't going too well. And you know
(15:00):
that the amount of times you'd be like Jackie, you
come on, he's on the floor again. But I think
what's nice is that we can listen to how each
of us deals with disappointment and change and see if
something that you do might work for me. And I
am definitely better at being the slowest burner now because
I want to be more considerate with my decisions and
I'm still got it. Well.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It's so interesting, though, that that is your method and
people around you have learned that well, because I think
that in a strength context, that's what's enabled you to
be such a great pivot. One day you wake up
and you're like, I want to try the Winter Olympics
and the Summer Olympics. And then most people sit on
it for like five years and then go, that's a
silly idea.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I don't you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And you're like, I'm going to just become a Bobs letter, like,
don't know anything about it, gonna learn it. I mean
the fact that's not even your biggest pivot. That's a
small semi pivot before we get to the big chapter,
before we get there. How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I lost three Olympic games in a row with injury,
so I should have won gold and at least two
of them probably not the third, but I was odds
on favorite and should have won at least been double
Olympic champion, and I'm not. I haven't even won a
medal at the Olympics because of injuries. I was raining
White champion, no, which is not people don't realize that
because you're a well known But I was reigning world champion,
reigning Comic champion, going into two separate Olympic Games and
(16:15):
got injured within weeks of both of them, and so overtraining.
Definitely some of my own you know, issues in that
in that space, but there was a lot of regret
and a lot of disappointment, and I had what I
would say was a pretty crappy relationship with the Olympics. Ultimately,
the Olympics about representing your country and doing something amazing
on the you know, the greatest scale in the world.
So I started thinking, Okay, I want to go to
(16:37):
another in another sport and have a crack and realize
how lucky I was to actually have gone in the
first place. Like stop half ring on all is. You know,
you came fourth because you got injured, and you you know,
yeah exactly, like yeah, exactly, you It's true. It's the
worst place in the world to come though. Forth you
don't even get a bronze. It's really really, it really sucks.
So anyway, I think I actually came fifth, and then
(16:59):
someone tested positive. Actually, but the point being, yeah, I
was out of the medals, and I was devastated because
I was there for gold and gold only and I
hadn't lost a race of a one hundred races at
that point, so wow, it was devastating for my coach,
for myself, for my family. So you felt like a failure.
Now I think it fail in a different ways than others,
but because I see it as a learning point. But
(17:19):
you felt like you let so many people down. And
so I wanted to go to a games and it
would just be this is so lucky, I am so lucky.
Let's try. So I tried boxing, I tried rowing, I
tried cycling. And then the call from a friend of
mine who used to I would you believe train with
as a sixteen year old. She was a veterory surgeon
who were two dorks in a sled at that point
because I had already started medical school. So she called
(17:40):
me up and said, hey, would you give this a crack?
And I really liked her. She was an incredible, incredible athlete,
and we just got along so well as youngsters. And
to be really honest with you, I didn't have to
wait four years. At least the weird really bigs were
two years away, so I thought I'd give it a go,
and it just sounded fun. I mean, who wouldn't want
to give bobs let to go? Oh my gosh. She
took me over to Germany, popped me in a sled,
crashed me on the first run. Nice. So I cracked
(18:02):
myself but realized it was okay because I think that's
what a lot of people worry about, is that you're
going to get really hurt something that's so scary. And
then that was it. I was absolutely hooked, so much fun.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Even though you've done it many times, I'm sure you
can see that objectively, people aren't as comfortable with completely
changing their direction or completely swapping pursuits sort of as
effortlessly as you seem to do it. What do you
think it is about your mindset that allows you to
act so quickly when you decide I'm going to try
(18:34):
something new. Is it that you don't have fear? No?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I have a lot of fear. I look at fear,
I think quite differently from average. Yeah, okay, I have
my little analogy that I say, which is fear equals
false evidence appearing real. So that's where fear is spelled out.
I love it, love yeah, because I really believe you
need to look at the worst case scenario.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And I know people, especially you know, in our line
of work, we're all talking about positivity and you know,
I love your CZA, and we're all trying to find
these ways to inspire each other and ourselves, and looking
at the negative is not seen as something to do.
I don't fully agree with that. I think sometimes you
need to get down and dirty what could go wrong.
And so it's a process I've done for many years
where I sit down with it with a potential idea,
(19:13):
and I look at what is the worst case scenario
that's going to come out of this, and can I
live with the outcomes? Can I truly and utterly live
with this deep and dark disappointment? Ninety nine percent of
the time, it's false evidence. It's stuff telling you that
this could happen and that could happen, and that is
never going to And so once you sit there with that,
you then left with a couple of things that could
go wrong that you can work on and prioritize rather
(19:34):
than that fear consuming you of this is going to
be so embarrassing publicly, or this is going to ruin
me financially, or this is going to you know, take
me back ten years in my career. And so it's
just being brave, but then truly being aware that if
it bugers up, you take a step backwards.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeahs to me.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And you'll learn something so great about yourself. And I've
failed so many more times than I've succeeded, and I
feel and every time I fail in that, I'm like, oh,
that's a mistake, wonderful, what's the next one? And so
if there's something you want to chase to me, you
give it a crack. If it doesn't work, you find
a different avenue and you'll something will come through that
journey that will help guide you on the next chapter
that you're going to have a go at. And I
(20:13):
even thought that now, and I know we're going to
get there. But my biggest fear is mother guilt and
the how do you fit in your life with these beautiful,
six little people running behind I know it's nahts. And
I remember my best friend who you know, Brad Foster,
who was my massage therapist at the Olympics. I regum said,
I can't do this registrar thing, becoming a subspecialty, like,
you know, doing some specialty training in women's health that
(20:34):
has gone to college. This is ridiculous. How am I
going to do it? And he's like, but you haven't
tried yet, so how do you know? Yeah, it's a
really good point. Yeah, so you don't know what you
don't know. That's so true.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And I think having that attitude of either you win
or you learn, like you never really lose, because even
if you lose what you thought was going to happen,
you gain something else and something better, and you are
stronger and you come back with perspective you didn't have before,
and kind of the ability to recover from a setback
really quickly is so much more valuable than the ability
to get it right the first time. I think one
(21:06):
hundred percent, I wouldn't say better. Yeah, I mean, it's
taken me a really long time to get there. But
I mean one of the most extraordinary things that I've
had the privilege of witnessing is Jana Pittman, who is
(21:28):
known as now a summer and Winter Olympic at this
point just lives and breathe sport and you know, has
had children through it. And then you become a doctor.
Most people would be quite bold over by even the
thought of pivoting that dramatically. It was a big pivot,
and very few people when they change career paths go
(21:49):
it's going to be medicine of all things, and not
just medicine. I'm then going to specialize.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
So was there a.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Pivot point for you? Was there like a singular sliding
doors moment or was it a slow burn of like
something's coming.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
No, it was a very big pivot point, but it
was a burn in that it had been something I've
wanted to do since I was a kid. So I
fell into sport, but it was always medicine. So as
a young person, I always wanted to be a doctor.
And then I thought I was too old because like
people be nodding along here thinking I got to thirty
and I thought that's it. Life's over. You know, I
can't change careers and it's too late to start medical
school and you know, go to university and no, thank you.
(22:25):
I don't want to feel like an idiot and the
impostor in the room. I just lost my third Olympic
Games within six months. I'd actually just had my third
miscarriage actually as well, and I was sitting there thinking,
I don't know what more you can throw at me,
and then my divorce, so then my marriage fell apart
as well. And then he met someone else very quickly,
and that just ripped me to pieces. And I was
so low and I just had a phoenix tatoo old me,
(22:48):
which is ironic, but it was a phoenix moment. It
was like I was so low and so crushed and
so burned and so down and so vulnerable that mum
walked in the door and put her career's hat on
and said, you need something so big to burn yourself
back out of this. And so she said, you've always
wanted to be a doctor, give it a crack. And
I'm like, oh god, no, like Yanna, this is what
you need to get out of this. You need something
(23:10):
that you love so much and that you have wanted
for so long to wipe away some of the extraordinary
pain you're feeling right now. And she was right, so
of course I sat the exam the first time, and,
as you remember, failed it miserably and got seven rejection letters.
In fact, you and Nick took me out and got
I have been drunk three times in my whole life,
and we went out, yeah, because I rocked off on
your door. I was like, yeah, I didn't pass the
(23:33):
first time. That's always been my life. I've always needed
a couple of goes. And then Mum would bring me
up about twelve months later because the exam only happened
once a year and said, well, you failed the Olympics
three times, so you got two shots left on even
I'm like, thanks Mom.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Reality Jack, I mean, third times a chartis a job.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
So thankfully it didn't take three and I got in
after the second year. And I can wholeheartedly say though
that the day I got in, I cried harder than
any loss that I'd had in any track and field.
With that she I have a new chapter coming, and
it was beyond I can't explain to you how it felt.
And then that day I walked into the new university
and I was like medical student. And the day a
(24:09):
nurse passed me and said, excuse me, doctors and asked
me to move away, and I was like, got you
copy a doctor. And so it was such a healing
experience to achieve something that had been a life long dream.
And it don't get me wrong, I still missed the Olympics,
but I wholeheartedly know if I had have won the
Olympic Games, I would not have even sat that exam once,
let alone twice. And I wouldn't be a doctor now,
which is just sport, remember and hiscarriacters. We're pretty hard.
(24:31):
But out of those darkest days and gave me my
career in medicine. And more than that, you know, the
natural move would have become a sports doctor. Yeah, but
then the miscarriages, and then I had a really scary
cervical cancer scare that thankfully wasn't but there was discussions around,
you know, having a hysterectomy. And then obviously you know,
I've wet myself on national television. So I've got pretty
significant in continents from having babies, I've got endometriosis, and
(24:53):
I've had heavy menstrumly and like I've had every woman's
health being thrown at me. And now I'm about to
go through menopause. That's fun next chapter. But it felt
like it was a little flag waving in front of
my face, going women's health, women's health, going to women's health. Yeah,
but yet again, it was the dark days that gave
me the light in my life. And so I think
that's where the pivots have happened, is that my only
goal is when something is really going badly, is find
(25:16):
find your breath out of there. And because you can
only sort of save yourself at the darkest, at the
darkest man, and I know people can't sometimes, but it's
also taken, it's taken incredibly difficult moments to pull yourself
out of them like those. You need those to know
you can do it again.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think you need. And this is
why we call this part the messy middle, because any
really worthy transformative pivot involves a degree of discomfort. So
whether it's extreme or less, so very rarely is it cruzy.
And I love that your mum use the words you
need something to burn your way out of this.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
The burning, it's like it has to light a fire
in you. It's it's going to be worth the drone journey,
but it's going to be a rough, bumpy road on
the way.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, and I think for anyone listening, it's quite reassuring
to hear that, even though so now you know, like
I truly believe you are such an extraordinary contributor to
the medical space and have so much more to give.
But to think that the world might have missed out
on that version of you, but that you had to
go through a really shitty time to get there and
it didn't make sense to you going forward. It's only
(26:23):
looking at night so that you can put the dots together.
If anyone listening is going through a really shitty time,
try and remember that someday in the future this might
make sense.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, and this will be the pivot point. Yeah, this
is what you're going to learn who you are and
what you need to be in the future. Yeah. And
I think it's an interesting point, but one that we
need to make at this point as well is that
everybody's journey is going to be different, and some people
will go through significant heartache and others will not. And
that is also okay because we can't we're constantly comparing
ourselves to each other. So I remember when I was
(26:55):
going through this down day and I'd lost the Olympics
and I'd lost a couple of babies. A friend of
mine died from cancer at the same time, and I thought,
I can't even possibly be sad because she's just lost
her life, and so straight away I was trying to
downplay my own pa because she went through worse. We've
got to stop doing that. Yeah, you know, even if
your pain is not as significant to someone else's, it's all,
you know, so that you have to acknowledge that. And
(27:16):
we've got to stop that comparison of well, they've got
it worse than us. They've got you know, they've got
a more disappointing life, they've been through more, they've had
a more tragic past. You don't need true tragedy to
build a new phoenix. You just need to look at
your own reaction to that space and know that that's
all you need.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But it is sometimes useful to know the logistics of
how people do manage the things that they manage, because,
particularly for you, you do have six incredible children on top
of one of the most demanding careers that you could
possibly go into, and then again you're always getting qualified
for other things on the side and doing public speaking.
There's a lot of logistics involved financially in a pivot,
(27:54):
in having your children taken care of in like you said,
the mum gilt and managing that. How have you sorted
out your ability to go back to study, because that's
a big barrier for a lot of people thinking I
want to go back and requalify in something, but logistically
I don't know how.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
That would work. And look, that's a tricky one and
I backfired it. I failed pretty miserably at at a time.
So I moved to Sydney to be closer to family.
So I think that is something you need to think about,
is who's your network and who do you need to
support you through that space and also hold you up
and be accountable if you need it. I bought a
house right near my parents. Three quarters the way through
my degree. I had a baby by myself with a
sperm donor, so that was a new chapter and I
(28:31):
hadn't calculated my mortgage payments correctly. Got to a point
where I was like, oh my god, I'm out and done,
and we tried to sell the house. It wouldn't sell.
I ended up moving into the garage, which please tax
it at man, don't come running after me. But I
basically rented the rooms out in my house to pay
for the food for my children and to pay for
a O pair because I was a single mum to
help me with the kids. And I was so lucky
(28:52):
that my wonderful second mother owns a day care center
and so she let my kids come practically nothing, which
was extraordinary. So again it's those people around you. And
eventually I had to go cap in hand and ask
my parents to help me out. And so I am
lucky because not everyone has a a mum and dad
that can veil them out when it came to that
financial But I really bug it it up. So what's
the answer there? Get your finances in order, soon, work
(29:15):
out what you can afford to do, take out and
loan if you need to scale back on the holidays
if you need to, you will find a way. Like
I literally lived in our garage for nine months and
rented the rooms. You'll find a way. But I tried
to do it the hard way. Luck I did, Like
some forward planning is a really good idea. We got there,
but and I learned a lot. But what we also
learned from there is that we could live in a
caravan if we needed to which we're doing next year,
(29:36):
because you don't need as much as you think you do.
And what would have been the worst case scenariout of that,
I could have stopped medical school and gone and worked
for a you. So there's always there's going to be
a way. You've just got to think about where your
backfires are and also look for what your flaws are
going to be. I am financially terrible, and I do
need someone to help me, so sausage, I'm not great
with a diary, and so I tried to have no
(29:58):
personal assistant for years and years and years, and fitting
speaking gigs in now and a lot of the you know,
the corporate stuff that I do as well for the
government and stuff, and then my children and my medicine,
and I needed someone to write to do my diary.
And a year ago I started finally doing it, and
it's the best thing.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I've ever Doesn't change your life, change my life.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So it's okay to ask Who's what I'm saying here,
It's okay to ask for help, But planning, I think
is key. And then again, be brave and if you
need to make a decision halfway through that it's not
for you. At least you've given it a try and
there's no regret.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I feel like the best decision making tool that I
have employed over the past couple of years has been
a future regret management matrix. And all I ask is
what will future me regret more? And because that's the
way that I decide things, even if it doesn't turn
out how I hoped, at least I won't regret the
decision because I'm like, well, I couldn't have decided any
(30:47):
other way.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yes, regret, it's one emotion. I think it is probably
the hardest one to ever live with the guilty of
the regret of not doing something. So at least don't
have that.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And so you've come through the messy medal and waded
your way through by extraordinary hard work. I mean, honestly,
I just don't think there are many people who work
as hard as you, but also who just get on
with it. What were you saying before you needed to
get your car seat fitted because you kept adding children
to the mix, you were so annoyed having to pay
for it that you got.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Qualified and how to install yourself. Yeah, I've always been
you don't rest on color. I have been lucky with that.
I'm resourceful. Probably my mum and my dad taught me
that lesson. But I also just think I'm excited by
learning and I hate not being able to do something,
so there's plenty of things I can't do. Actually, that
was one of the hardest things about pivoting into medicine
was actually going from being very good at something to
(31:47):
being god awful at something, as in not having the
skills to do stuff and being and having people half
my age. So if you are thinking about it about
the big change, it is worth calculating this in your
thought process of someone half your age telling you you
suck and that you've got to work harder and don't worry.
You're really junior. You'll be better in a few years time.
You're like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Gosh, this is when is this going to so going
back to being beginner.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, there's the hardest thing about change, genuinely, which was
going back to the bottom of the ladder again and
having to rely and you know, with respect I see
especially you know, things like medicine. It's someone's life on
the line. But that's the biggest trick and challenge that
I've had to overcome.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And what about the identity piece of having spent so
much of your life being known for one thing and
now introducing yourself differently, perceiving yourself differently, Like how.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Do you describe to people what you do? I now
actually describe myself as a doctor, so I rarely even
put athlete in there. Now I'm a doctor. I've got
six kids, so that's my main identity. Oh, I used
to play with sport or I used to just a
little it's just a little side. That's how I do
it in my dating profile these days. But likes to
run casually. Casually No. So look, I have completely and
(32:59):
wholeheartedly pivoted into that medical space, especially because I have
a voice in women's health so much. I do a
lot of advocacy and lots of different in continents and
a civical cancer awareness groups and things like that. So
I feel like I've been in it for twelve years now, Sarah,
It's not like it's stopped. Yeah. So I started medicine
when I was twenty nine and I'm forty two now.
I had two years off with the kids obviously, when
I had the little ones. But I've been in it
(33:20):
now for longer, really than I competed at the Olympics,
so wow, yeah, it's my life.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah. And so when anyone listening is feeling the fear
that you mentioned, like it is really scary to go
back to the beginning. There's a lot of ego that
you have to remove, oh your melody in like, but
it can be, as you said, incredibly rewarding and it
could be the thing that becomes your defining moment, yeah,
moment and the passion of your life. What advice would
(33:47):
you give to anyone who might be on the cusp
of that change at the beginning, And what advice would
you give yourself back at the start when you had
failed the exam the first time?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Hoof, that's good ones. Look, I really think you need
to be pragmatic about it and write down what your
goal is and then work out what your fears and
what the things could be that are holding you back
and cross off all the ones that you know is
just your past experience is trying to crap your mindset
off and say you can't do it. So really just
write it right, it down and rule out what is
really going to hold you back and what's not And
doing so, also write down your strengths in it's just
(34:18):
sit there and write down, well, what part of me
is going to make this work and what part of
this is going to make it good, and then share
it with a close group of friends so that they've
got your support when you're making that change. You've already
said as well, surround yourself by people that are going
to advocate you in that space. There's plenty of naysays,
plenty of people they're going to tell you can't, possibly
because they feel like they can't, and therefore they project
that onto you. And then always remember that you don't
(34:38):
have to go through with it. If you make a
decision and it's not right, what comes out of that
will be so much more of a learning than the
success that you'll eventually you have if you do finish
that goal. So I think you've got nothing to lose
once you've worked out what the truth things to lose are.
You've got nothing to lose by giving it a go.
And what I say to myself, You know, I had
to say this literally yesterday because right now I'm in
the middle of registrar training and it's big hours and
(35:00):
I'm so useless, Like having to call your boss in
it too in the morning because you're just not sure
if you can get this baby out safely, and you're like,
please come in. I'm really sorry. I'm almost good enough
to deliver this baby, but I'm really scared I'm not
going to be able to And then they stand next
to you deliver it beautifully, and they look at you
and you go, oh great, you called me in for nothing,
and you just but you have to because it's a
safety it's a safety things and it's the right thing
to do. But knowing and I think, I can't do
(35:23):
this anymy I'm going to quit. I can't do this anymore.
I can't do this. And then you look think, well,
my five years ago, five years ago, Yanna would give
anything to be in the shoes that I'm in right now.
Like absolutely, I'd given an arm. Couldn't operate with that
an arm, but I'd give an arm to be You'd
find a way, do you know what I mean? Like
it's when you're grappling with challenging parts of your journey,
there is a part of you that knows that you're
(35:45):
so lucky to be there, and sometimes it's just taking
a step back and going oh no, you're right. You're right.
Five years ago, I would have been so stoked with
being where I am now. And that's what you've got
to focus on, is that you always wanted to be here,
and now you're here. To suck it up a little
bit and keep going.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
That perspective is so easy to lose or forget, but
so important to remind yourself of. And then you did
mention that there have been so many times where things
didn't necessarily go your way, but they've always taught you
something for the future. And I think it's one thing
that you can go on up skill at any time,
you can go back to study. But then there's also
all the random skills you acquire in your earlier experiences
(36:21):
that don't seem like they're relevant to anything else. What
are some of the things that from those early athletics
days have really stuck with you through medical school, through
becoming a doctor.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Look, I think the persistence was always going to be
there because you're always chasing something that seems a little
bit aloof because you know that are you going to win?
Are you not? Are you going to make it? Are
you not? Are you going to pass an exam? Who
knows and that persistent work ethic ultimately gets you your goal.
Do you remember My old coach was Phil King, and
he had the five p's, perfect preparation events piss poor performers.
(36:54):
So I like his quote though, because it is right.
If you perfect the way you perform, and then you
consistently show up for yourself every day, things are going
to work. And it's a matter of just hanging in
there and hanging in there and hanging in there. And
sport pre sense that opportunity to learn that at an
early age, So which is why I think it's important
for kids to do sport. You don't have to be
good at it, It just teaches you those lessons of failure, resilience,
(37:16):
keep going, camaraderie, friendship, support, and I think that really
does hold you in any job you choose. After you
know your teenage years in sport.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
What would you say along the way has been your
biggest hurdle?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
And have the bigger they got?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Has that made the previous ones pale in comparison?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
You have no idea how accurate that is. And funnily enough,
and again I come back to you, you only know
what you know. So I remember in my sports career.
Losing the Olympics felt like I was everything was you know,
was dying around me and my whole world was collapsing.
And then the miscarriages certainly felt like they took the
Olympic disappointment away a little bit because they felt so
much more significant. And then you know, now, working in medicine,
(37:57):
I have, you know, most of the time ninety nine
point nine percent of the time, it's phenomenal and it
is the most extraordinary job where you get to be
that person who you know, helps birth that baby and
give it to that mom, or help that woman with
a colapse have changed in her symptoms, like it's extraordinary.
But I work at a very high level tertiary hospital,
and horrible things happen, and birth is scary. People underestimate
how dangerous birth can be and how outcomes can go badly,
(38:20):
very quickly, and I've already been present for some of them.
And I had an event last year where I could
barely walk into the hospital afterwards because I found it
so so shattering afterwards that I did not think I
could ever be a doctor again. And it paled every
loss I've ever had into utter insignificance, like even the
two divorces, which I'm still so embarrassed about, and so
(38:43):
I just want to ask it. I have a wife,
I don't care anyone who wants me, but it's just
it's getting to that point. But the reality is that
when you're as busy as me that men partners don't
want They don't want to be fourth fiddle in someone's life.
They want to you know. So it's really hard. People
are often afraid of the success and I am quirky
(39:05):
and different, but I would love that. It's something I
would still really hope happens. So yeah, So when horrible
things happen, they will adjust your focus and they will
shed a light on different disappointments and take that pain away.
And that's how you have to see them. So if
you are in the middle of something truly shocking right now,
a light will come, that day will pass. You wake
up the next day, and at that time it feels
(39:26):
like you won't, but if you just give it breath
and time and space, you will heal slowly. And again,
something else will happen later in life that'll pale that
one back into insignificant. And I think that's part of
the blessing of being human and alive, because one day
you won't be One day, that chapter and that light
will go off, and you'll have all these experiences that
you've been through in life, and hopefully you'll look back
(39:47):
at them and think, Wow, what a life I've lived.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
It's actually unfathomable I think to anyone outside of the
field of medicine that you would have to face something
like that in the working day and then go home.
So how do you compartmentalize when work is unfathomably devastating.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Oh, that's a good question. Look, there's two flip sides
for that, because it happens most weeks, that's something a
little bit. You know, I'm gonna be honest, I probably
wouldn't sye it shitty happens. He's like, oh gosh, I
wish that outcome I had been a bit different. And
most of the time, it's those kids that run at
you at the door, smiling at you like they don't
know anything that's happened. They don't care who you are.
They just love you, which makes it all better and
(40:29):
it allows me to completely shift off and change. And
I know, you know, not everyone has the privilege of
being a parent and or may not want to. So
that's definitely not everybody's solution, but for me, it's a
huge part of my strength, of my resilience is that
my kids are just my backbone and weapon in this space.
But there are definitely times and like that last year
where I was I came in and I couldn't even
(40:49):
face them and found even looking at them made me
feel guilty because you just feel like you're like, oh God,
I'm so lucky, but people out there aren't, and you
have to find a way. And it might be that
you say to your little guys, you sit down and
say mummy needs half an hour, and you go to
your room and you cry your eyes out again that
you know, for me, flashing the pan, anger or whatever
it is you need to do, go for a really
(41:10):
hard run, get it out of your system, give yourself
the time to break, because if you don't, you'll explode
at the kids, or you explode at your husband, or
or you'll smash something in because you don't mean to
but because you're completely and utterly overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
That's I think the second time now that you've mentioned
go for a really hard run as.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Like a shakeout.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So obviously I think some people walk away from sport
and have to walk away from it altogether if they
can't do it at the level that they used to.
But it sounds like sport is still quite an outlet
for you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Oh, running is my drug of choice. Like I just
love it. And it's so funny, Sarah, because after I
stopped sport, I didn't want to run because you know,
you just think, OK, and a lot of us do that.
It took me ten goes to get back into running.
I had to catch a five k and I thought,
this is pretty funny. Is this Olympian five cat? I
had to do something to change it. And so I
do think it's important to hear that you need help,
(41:58):
Like I really struggled, but once you got into it
and I recognize again how good I felt, and now
it is I love it. Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
It's funny that I think a lot of us our
threshold for giving up on something is like attempt three,
maybe attempt four. And there's been so many times in
this episode where you've said, oh, I got to the
tenth try, And I'm like, that's actually, in itself a
really good lesson that just because you don't get something
in the first couple of times. It doesn't mean stop.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
No, I agree.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
The people who make it are the people who just
keep going one more time than.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
One time, exactly exactly well.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I mean, if anyone listening didn't already know how extraordinary
Yana is, you will certainly appreciate it now. And I
mean nothing short of an hour will do you justice.
Thank you so much for sharing such valuable insights and
sharing so generously to anyone else who is on.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Their pathway to a pivot my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
Pivot Club. We've got another brand new episode coming your
way next week, so be sure to hit that follow
button so it lands right in your feed. And if
you love the show, please do tell your friends about it.
Give us a rating and review in your podcast app.
It truly means so much. This episode of Pivot Club
(43:20):
was produced by Sally Best. The executive producer is Courtney Ammenhauser.
Catch you next time. Momma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners
of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on
You're listening to a Mom with mea podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Have you found yourself on the path everyone expects you
to take, only to realize it doesn't lead to where
you want to go anymore? That feeling when you realize
you're climbing a ladder that's leaning up against the wrong wall.
This is Pivot Club and I'm your host. Sarah Davidson,
a fellow member of the Pivot Club. My path life
was as an em and a lawyer. I'd done everything
(00:39):
I'd mapped out and was supposed to do before I
completely pivoted to launch my own business, matcha Maiden. But
today isn't about my story. It's about someone who didn't
just question their path, but had the courage to step
off and build their own. Here where, I'm packing professional
plot twists and finding out what it takes to define
success on your own terms. So let's dive into their
(01:02):
story of intuition, bravery and what happens when you decide
to join the Pivot Club. You'll recognize today's guest as
one of Australia's most famous athletes. Yanna Pittman, the world
champion hurdler whose singular goal of Olympic gold was repeatedly
torn away by devastating injuries and gut wrenching losses until
(01:22):
her time on the track came to an end. You
might think her biggest pivot was swapping the running track
for the bobslid, becoming one of the very few athletes
in history to compete in both the Summer and Winter Olympics.
But that wasn't it. Her real pivot was walking away
from that identity entirely to become a doctor, all while
(01:43):
raising six children. And that's the pivot we're talking about today.
How do you cope with failure when your mindset is
silver is the first loser? And how do you go
from being one of the best in the world to
a complete beginner at the bottom of the ladder, surrounded
by people half your age. This is an incredibly candid
conversation about how that massive career change was born on
(02:05):
her darkest days, divorce, miscarriages, failed exams, and the financial
loads of moving back into her own garage to make
ends meet. This is a role lesson in resilience that
unseen messy middle and how your lowest moments can be
fuel for your greatest chapter Yet, Yana, Welcome to Pivot club.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Thank you, Sarah. It's so nice to see you, and
it's interesting with obviously a friendship we've had for many,
many years. I didn't even know what was going to
be you, but I'm very excited to be.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Oh my god, of course I'm really happy for you.
I am so excited to have you, guys, and it's
so so lovely to have you because not only are
you possibly the person who has made the most incredible,
impressive and diverse range of pivots, but that I feel
very lucky to have been there for a lot of them.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's right. I mean your husband, now, yeah, was my
training partner almost twenty years ago. So yeah, so we
knew each other twenty years ago, and that it was
leading into the Athens and the Beijing Olympics, that we
were all we were training together, and so yes, you
have you walked down that road with me through the
tears and the gut ranging changes and decisions and the
indecisions and the false starts and the backfires, and now
(03:13):
we're here, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
But above all, I think the overarching theme has been
you just are irrepressible. You will just find a way.
I wasn't going to do this, but I have to
you will leap over the herd no matter what it is.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
But that has kind of been my motto for life,
and I mean it does work, be heard or obviously,
But I've learned so many times that the days you
think you're at your worst and your lowest tend to
be the days you pivot into something so much more special.
You just got to be present and aware of it.
And I wasn't at the time. Don't get me wrong.
I feel like a lot of my pivots and my
changes have happened thankfully to an incredible support system around me,
(03:52):
of which you were a part of that for a
long time, which allowed me to take on new challenge.
But I've also not been afraid of that failure, so
probably because of sport. You know, it does you fail
so often. You know, there's one winner in a race
and seven to eight losers, let's be real, so that
it loses from very early on. Oh goshcha, some things
don't go to plan, and that you pick yourself up
(04:12):
and you keep going. And so that is a real
blessing out of kids doing sport and building that resilience
early gosh.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I mean, you must have such a thick skinned. I mean,
we all kind of have this attitude of certificate of participation,
like when you were trying and then the athletes come
into the room and they're like.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Silver is the first loser. It's different, is it?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Do you know?
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It's so funny you say that, and you know me
well enough that it's quite interesting that we're going straight
into this. But I have definitely got a thick skin
when it comes to failure, but an incredibly thin one
when it comes to public perception. And it's something that
I've battled, that imposter syndrome all the time, and I'm now,
you know, I do a lot of public speaking these days.
And I got actually asked an amazing question yesterday by
someone in the audience who sort of said, what drove
(04:52):
you as a young person, because you've taken on medicine,
and you've taken on multiple children, and you know, one
Summer Olympics and then Winter Olympics and all those changes.
And it wasn't until a couple of years ago that
I started to really reflect that a lot of it
was me trying to prove to myself that I was
good enough and that I was okay, and that I
was worthy, and there was a lot of underlying guilt there,
trying to impress myself rather than others. And I thought
(05:13):
it was an external I thought it was that extrinsic
drive to be liked, but it was actually that I
hadn't actually come to terms with who I was as
a person and like who I was in the mirror.
And so it's not like that anymore. I definitely have
a much better sense of self. I think so many
of us feel that way in life, in that we
look at our why and we're always asked to question
what is our why? Why are you doing something? What's
going to get you out of bed to take on
(05:33):
a new challenge? And why do you do things? And
it's okay for that to be different throughout different periods
of life, and I wouldn't change it. Don't get me wrong.
Having that insecurity as a young person has given me
this resume that I'm incredibly proud of and as you
should be, and built that resilience, yeah, you know, because
I wasn't prepared to fail, because I was trying to
prove to myself, and so I failed over and over again,
and then that resilience just organically built so trying to
(05:57):
bottle that now and then teach other people to work
with it, like my own kids.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
That is such a profound reflection to have after so
many chapters that you have had. And I want to
start actually by going back to your past life or
your very first chapter that propelled you onto the scene,
particularly because that's when a lot of Australia met you. So,
I mean, your identity to so many of us was
Yana Pitman the athlete, or Yana Pitman in the Olympian
(06:22):
And we know what it looked like from the outside.
But the reason you hadn't had these revelations yet is
because you were a teenager aent I so young, So
what did it look like on the inside when you
were first grappling with your why look?
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I think there was a couple of things. I mean,
it helped that I loved to run, okay, so that
was a very functional reason to do something. Yeah, I
loved how it made you feel. I was very lucky
as a young person to have quite good mental health.
So I was quite just just a happy, go lucky
kind of kid, very good support system in my parents,
and so therefore I just did it because I loved
it and afterwards felt great. You know, you push hard, dispue,
(06:58):
you feel crap, and then you feel great afterwards. You
do though, and there'll be lots of gym junkies that
listen to this and you do. You have that like,
oh gosh, this is going to hurt so much, but
that revelation afterwards of how great you feel. And that's
typically of the four hundred meters, which is the event
that I ran, So that part of it was a
big driver. There was al also that identity space. So
I've always been quirky, always been a little different. I
(07:20):
would definitely say I have quite a lot of neurodiversity.
I haven't been diagnosed, but I'm a doctor after all,
so I can get the self diagnosed that space, and
I wouldn't be too hard to get it done, for
it's pretty obvious. But I always struggled to make friends
as young as a young girl, and so in school
I say the wrong things or do you know, make it,
make a silly statement and someone would sort of give,
(07:42):
you know, pick on you a little before It's still
I'm still a bit vulnerable about that. And sport wasn't
like that because I'd go on the track, and I
was just good. I mean, most of the thing when
I was a young girl was like I had infected
mosquito bites for boobs, and was I lesbian? And all
these constant labels that I was getting still school even
after breastfeeding.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I'm like, wow, you can.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Pay for them and they're fine, you know, I remember those.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Yeah, that's true, that's true. There is a solution.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
But it was just a time in life where I
felt great about myself. So sport for me was an elevator.
It was, and certainly the first ten to fifteen years
of my early career, so sort of you know, age
twelve and up to about twenty three, twenty four, it
was nothing but wonderful. Just an incredible opportunity to get
out and explore the world, making wonderful friends who are
like minded, and just feel really solid and good in yourself.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And what an incredibly unique experience to be so driven
by joy and not it was by societal expectations. You
look gravitating towards something because you loved doing it and
it felt good, and that is so pure. It was
lovely and that you actually happened to be really good
at it.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, I was very lucky. It was, like I said,
it was incredibly pure, and I do have that memory
of it. I remember just feeling sheer enjoyment. Don't mean wrong.
I was nervous, and yeah, I've done many eRASS where
I almost didn't raise because of fear. In fact, one time,
the first time I ever would have run against Kathy Free,
when I cracked myself and hit in the coll room
and didn't go and then blamed an injury that wasn't there.
So I had that fear and anxiety already, but again
(09:07):
came down to I've got to look like an idiot
and that whole perception thing. But ninety nine percent of
the time I got on that track and just loved it.
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Well, speaking of the perception thing, I think what's really
hard when you do love something so much and when
it's such a public pursuit, is that not only do
you come to know yourself through your sport, but everyone
else then that's the label that they attached to you.
And so should you dare want to be known for
something else in your life, you know, it's really hard
(09:37):
for other people to peel that back, but also for you.
So back then, how much of your identity was around
being an elite athlete.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
It's a great question, and I think it becomes that. Yeah,
it becomes your identity, which is why you know, so
many athletes struggle in retirement because that identity is shifted
so and often it's abruptly where you go from top
of the world to injured out. Yeah, you know, yesterday's
news kind of thing, and that can be a bit
of a challenge. It has the added complexity of you
stopped training as well, and then endorphin and adrenaline rush
(10:06):
that you get with the training and the highs of
competition is removed, and that is tricky and it can
really bottom out some people. For sure, it did for
me for at least a couple of months to a year.
They think it was just a chapter that we had
to go through to make that change down the track,
and it worked for me.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, what about the day to day of it, Like,
I think we also saw you in Sydney and we'd
see the big runs that were like the one percent
of all your actual life strike But don't really understand
unless you were also an athlete what it took for
you to live that life, Like, what was your training
like you were at school, right.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
I never found that hard. Surah. Well, it was also
all I ever knew, which I kind of comes to
that identity question again. But you know, I started running.
I went to my first Olympic Games when I was
only so I qualified at sixteen and went at seventeen.
So yes, that was during the school years. And you know,
in my final high school year in year twelve, only
went to school for I can't even remember now, but
some like thirty days or so. So it was a
pretty much homeschool, which wasn't really done as much back then. Yeah,
(11:04):
and my mother did all my academic stuff and whatnot.
I did my exams and an embassy in Chile for
example for the HSC, So it was at two o'clock
in the morning, I might add in between the heats
and the semi finals of the World Junior Championship. So
it was it was just that was normal. Like people
say that's nuts, like what But for me, I'm like, well,
what option did I have. I can't miss my HSC
because I want to I wanted to be a doctor,
(11:24):
and I'm not missing the World Championship. So we make
it happen. It's the beginning of you. I just have
to do it. I've got to do it, by the way.
So yeah, so I think that that was part of
that journey. And it's great as long as you have
outlets as well. Whereas, because you're right, it was a
seven day a week, I didn't have my social life.
(11:45):
I trained and I studied, and I trained and then
I studied, and there wasn't much else in my life
outside of that. And that's okay for me, but it's
absolutely not okay for other people. I'd say I'm abnormal,
not the norm, and don't get me wrong with others
who will be, you know, hearing and feeling. Oh yeah,
I'm like that too. We're just we are a different,
different breed and some of us survive on that and
(12:06):
others then have big falls. And I've had those big
falls too, and so it does take a toll eventually,
and you've just got to kind of work out where
you sit and what I guess weapons or avenues you
have to get out when things don't go to plan.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, speaking of I think another thing that has really
plagued you from very early is I mean, people often
take a lifetime to reach their dreams, but at a
very young age. You had got to the pinnacle of
your sport and you know, having all kinds of successes,
but then also facing devastating injuries. It's constant, yeah, And
I know how constant that was you And Nick has
(12:40):
spoken about how it is identity crushing for an athlete
to have your physicality removed from you. How did you
get through when you suddenly just couldn't run.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Not well? And that's the human side of me, you know,
So like I definitely broke hard. Thankfully, I break very
hard for twenty four hours usually, and it's been a
skill I've had even in medicine. Now, so I am
an explosion and then it's gone. I have a process
and look, it's funny, and I think that's what happened
to early, like twenty five years ago, exploding on a
(13:10):
state that was just bad, right, And it's all about
being humble and being a quiet athlete and letting your
performance speak for it. And I was a little too late. Now,
you know, the Kardashians and everyone's all over there with
all these emotions that are huge, and we think it's great.
People are authentic, But that initially was why. So I
got some of the negative media when I was a
young person, because I was so emotive. That was actually
my coping mechanism and I didn't realize it at the time,
but that's what made me good, so good at what Yeah,
(13:33):
because I was able to go home process it quickly.
And I was never mean to anybody publicly. I was
always like you suck to myself as and I did
a really deep dive of this is so painful, this
hurts so much, have a really good cry, go for
a really hard run, eat three blocks of chocolate, and
it was over. Yeah, you get it out. It worked.
And I'm in a career now which I know we'll
get to where there's lots of good and bad outcomes. Yeah,
(13:54):
all the time. And look, I'm a lot more placid now.
I'll go for a very hard run. I need half
a block of chocolate. But it's still work. You've scouted
at that. I scouted back. But I'm a huge believer
when stuff doesn't go to plan. I know, we come
from a country which we hold onto our emotions well.
And you know, I grew up with a dad who's
like he's a cup of concrete. Suckert up, Princess, get
over yourself. You know, there's other people that are in
the world. You know, I come from all that exactly stoicism.
(14:16):
That's perfect, but I think there's a time and place
where that actually backfires on you really badly. Yeah, until
you're unable to face your fears because you're so afraid
of things happening again, because you haven't actually processed the
last time something went wrong, whereas I'm a processor. Yeah,
a little too publicly at times.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
But it's incredible that now you can actually put a
label on that and see that it's a repeat mechanism
that actually helps you get the emotions out rather than
sitting on them.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You get them out. But then you passed it, and
you passed it. And my mum has been my placid.
She was a careers adviser as a teacher in a school,
and she was my person, my leveler, my mirror holder,
you know, in other words, Yanna back off, Yeah, you're
buggering this all the time. But also my greatest advocate.
You know, she was the one who always picked things
up when it wasn't going too well. And you know
(15:00):
that the amount of times you'd be like Jackie, you
come on, he's on the floor again. But I think
what's nice is that we can listen to how each
of us deals with disappointment and change and see if
something that you do might work for me. And I
am definitely better at being the slowest burner now because
I want to be more considerate with my decisions and
I'm still got it. Well.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It's so interesting, though, that that is your method and
people around you have learned that well, because I think
that in a strength context, that's what's enabled you to
be such a great pivot. One day you wake up
and you're like, I want to try the Winter Olympics
and the Summer Olympics. And then most people sit on
it for like five years and then go, that's a
silly idea.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
I don't you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And you're like, I'm going to just become a Bobs letter, like,
don't know anything about it, gonna learn it. I mean
the fact that's not even your biggest pivot. That's a
small semi pivot before we get to the big chapter,
before we get there. How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I lost three Olympic games in a row with injury,
so I should have won gold and at least two
of them probably not the third, but I was odds
on favorite and should have won at least been double
Olympic champion, and I'm not. I haven't even won a
medal at the Olympics because of injuries. I was raining
White champion, no, which is not people don't realize that
because you're a well known But I was reigning world champion,
reigning Comic champion, going into two separate Olympic Games and
(16:15):
got injured within weeks of both of them, and so overtraining.
Definitely some of my own you know, issues in that
in that space, but there was a lot of regret
and a lot of disappointment, and I had what I
would say was a pretty crappy relationship with the Olympics. Ultimately,
the Olympics about representing your country and doing something amazing
on the you know, the greatest scale in the world.
So I started thinking, Okay, I want to go to
(16:37):
another in another sport and have a crack and realize
how lucky I was to actually have gone in the
first place. Like stop half ring on all is. You know,
you came fourth because you got injured, and you you know,
yeah exactly, like yeah, exactly, you It's true. It's the
worst place in the world to come though. Forth you
don't even get a bronze. It's really really, it really sucks.
So anyway, I think I actually came fifth, and then
(16:59):
someone tested positive. Actually, but the point being, yeah, I
was out of the medals, and I was devastated because
I was there for gold and gold only and I
hadn't lost a race of a one hundred races at
that point, so wow, it was devastating for my coach,
for myself, for my family. So you felt like a failure.
Now I think it fail in a different ways than others,
but because I see it as a learning point. But
(17:19):
you felt like you let so many people down. And
so I wanted to go to a games and it
would just be this is so lucky, I am so lucky.
Let's try. So I tried boxing, I tried rowing, I
tried cycling. And then the call from a friend of
mine who used to I would you believe train with
as a sixteen year old. She was a veterory surgeon
who were two dorks in a sled at that point
because I had already started medical school. So she called
(17:40):
me up and said, hey, would you give this a crack?
And I really liked her. She was an incredible, incredible athlete,
and we just got along so well as youngsters. And
to be really honest with you, I didn't have to
wait four years. At least the weird really bigs were
two years away, so I thought I'd give it a go,
and it just sounded fun. I mean, who wouldn't want
to give bobs let to go? Oh my gosh. She
took me over to Germany, popped me in a sled,
crashed me on the first run. Nice. So I cracked
(18:02):
myself but realized it was okay because I think that's
what a lot of people worry about, is that you're
going to get really hurt something that's so scary. And
then that was it. I was absolutely hooked, so much fun.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Even though you've done it many times, I'm sure you
can see that objectively, people aren't as comfortable with completely
changing their direction or completely swapping pursuits sort of as
effortlessly as you seem to do it. What do you
think it is about your mindset that allows you to
act so quickly when you decide I'm going to try
(18:34):
something new. Is it that you don't have fear? No?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I have a lot of fear. I look at fear,
I think quite differently from average. Yeah, okay, I have
my little analogy that I say, which is fear equals
false evidence appearing real. So that's where fear is spelled out.
I love it, love yeah, because I really believe you
need to look at the worst case scenario.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
And I know people, especially you know, in our line
of work, we're all talking about positivity and you know,
I love your CZA, and we're all trying to find
these ways to inspire each other and ourselves, and looking
at the negative is not seen as something to do.
I don't fully agree with that. I think sometimes you
need to get down and dirty what could go wrong.
And so it's a process I've done for many years
where I sit down with it with a potential idea,
(19:13):
and I look at what is the worst case scenario
that's going to come out of this, and can I
live with the outcomes? Can I truly and utterly live
with this deep and dark disappointment? Ninety nine percent of
the time, it's false evidence. It's stuff telling you that
this could happen and that could happen, and that is
never going to And so once you sit there with that,
you then left with a couple of things that could
go wrong that you can work on and prioritize rather
(19:34):
than that fear consuming you of this is going to
be so embarrassing publicly, or this is going to ruin
me financially, or this is going to you know, take
me back ten years in my career. And so it's
just being brave, but then truly being aware that if
it bugers up, you take a step backwards.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeahs to me.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
And you'll learn something so great about yourself. And I've
failed so many more times than I've succeeded, and I
feel and every time I fail in that, I'm like, oh,
that's a mistake, wonderful, what's the next one? And so
if there's something you want to chase to me, you
give it a crack. If it doesn't work, you find
a different avenue and you'll something will come through that
journey that will help guide you on the next chapter
that you're going to have a go at. And I
(20:13):
even thought that now, and I know we're going to
get there. But my biggest fear is mother guilt and
the how do you fit in your life with these beautiful,
six little people running behind I know it's nahts. And
I remember my best friend who you know, Brad Foster,
who was my massage therapist at the Olympics. I regum said,
I can't do this registrar thing, becoming a subspecialty, like,
you know, doing some specialty training in women's health that
(20:34):
has gone to college. This is ridiculous. How am I
going to do it? And he's like, but you haven't
tried yet, so how do you know? Yeah, it's a
really good point. Yeah, so you don't know what you
don't know. That's so true.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And I think having that attitude of either you win
or you learn, like you never really lose, because even
if you lose what you thought was going to happen,
you gain something else and something better, and you are
stronger and you come back with perspective you didn't have before,
and kind of the ability to recover from a setback
really quickly is so much more valuable than the ability
to get it right the first time. I think one
(21:06):
hundred percent, I wouldn't say better. Yeah, I mean, it's
taken me a really long time to get there. But
I mean one of the most extraordinary things that I've
had the privilege of witnessing is Jana Pittman, who is
(21:28):
known as now a summer and Winter Olympic at this
point just lives and breathe sport and you know, has
had children through it. And then you become a doctor.
Most people would be quite bold over by even the
thought of pivoting that dramatically. It was a big pivot,
and very few people when they change career paths go
(21:49):
it's going to be medicine of all things, and not
just medicine. I'm then going to specialize.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
So was there a.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Pivot point for you? Was there like a singular sliding
doors moment or was it a slow burn of like
something's coming.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
No, it was a very big pivot point, but it
was a burn in that it had been something I've
wanted to do since I was a kid. So I
fell into sport, but it was always medicine. So as
a young person, I always wanted to be a doctor.
And then I thought I was too old because like
people be nodding along here thinking I got to thirty
and I thought that's it. Life's over. You know, I
can't change careers and it's too late to start medical
school and you know, go to university and no, thank you.
(22:25):
I don't want to feel like an idiot and the
impostor in the room. I just lost my third Olympic
Games within six months. I'd actually just had my third
miscarriage actually as well, and I was sitting there thinking,
I don't know what more you can throw at me,
and then my divorce, so then my marriage fell apart
as well. And then he met someone else very quickly,
and that just ripped me to pieces. And I was
so low and I just had a phoenix tatoo old me,
(22:48):
which is ironic, but it was a phoenix moment. It
was like I was so low and so crushed and
so burned and so down and so vulnerable that mum
walked in the door and put her career's hat on
and said, you need something so big to burn yourself
back out of this. And so she said, you've always
wanted to be a doctor, give it a crack. And
I'm like, oh god, no, like Yanna, this is what
you need to get out of this. You need something
(23:10):
that you love so much and that you have wanted
for so long to wipe away some of the extraordinary
pain you're feeling right now. And she was right, so
of course I sat the exam the first time, and,
as you remember, failed it miserably and got seven rejection letters.
In fact, you and Nick took me out and got
I have been drunk three times in my whole life,
and we went out, yeah, because I rocked off on
your door. I was like, yeah, I didn't pass the
(23:33):
first time. That's always been my life. I've always needed
a couple of goes. And then Mum would bring me
up about twelve months later because the exam only happened
once a year and said, well, you failed the Olympics
three times, so you got two shots left on even
I'm like, thanks Mom.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Reality Jack, I mean, third times a chartis a job.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
So thankfully it didn't take three and I got in
after the second year. And I can wholeheartedly say though
that the day I got in, I cried harder than
any loss that I'd had in any track and field.
With that she I have a new chapter coming, and
it was beyond I can't explain to you how it felt.
And then that day I walked into the new university
and I was like medical student. And the day a
(24:09):
nurse passed me and said, excuse me, doctors and asked
me to move away, and I was like, got you
copy a doctor. And so it was such a healing
experience to achieve something that had been a life long dream.
And it don't get me wrong, I still missed the Olympics,
but I wholeheartedly know if I had have won the
Olympic Games, I would not have even sat that exam once,
let alone twice. And I wouldn't be a doctor now,
which is just sport, remember and hiscarriacters. We're pretty hard.
(24:31):
But out of those darkest days and gave me my
career in medicine. And more than that, you know, the
natural move would have become a sports doctor. Yeah, but
then the miscarriages, and then I had a really scary
cervical cancer scare that thankfully wasn't but there was discussions around,
you know, having a hysterectomy. And then obviously you know,
I've wet myself on national television. So I've got pretty
significant in continents from having babies, I've got endometriosis, and
(24:53):
I've had heavy menstrumly and like I've had every woman's
health being thrown at me. And now I'm about to
go through menopause. That's fun next chapter. But it felt
like it was a little flag waving in front of
my face, going women's health, women's health, going to women's health. Yeah,
but yet again, it was the dark days that gave
me the light in my life. And so I think
that's where the pivots have happened, is that my only
goal is when something is really going badly, is find
(25:16):
find your breath out of there. And because you can
only sort of save yourself at the darkest, at the
darkest man, and I know people can't sometimes, but it's
also taken, it's taken incredibly difficult moments to pull yourself
out of them like those. You need those to know
you can do it again.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and I think you need. And this is
why we call this part the messy middle, because any
really worthy transformative pivot involves a degree of discomfort. So
whether it's extreme or less, so very rarely is it cruzy.
And I love that your mum use the words you
need something to burn your way out of this.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
The burning, it's like it has to light a fire
in you. It's it's going to be worth the drone journey,
but it's going to be a rough, bumpy road on
the way.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah, and I think for anyone listening, it's quite reassuring
to hear that, even though so now you know, like
I truly believe you are such an extraordinary contributor to
the medical space and have so much more to give.
But to think that the world might have missed out
on that version of you, but that you had to
go through a really shitty time to get there and
it didn't make sense to you going forward. It's only
(26:23):
looking at night so that you can put the dots together.
If anyone listening is going through a really shitty time,
try and remember that someday in the future this might
make sense.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, and this will be the pivot point. Yeah, this
is what you're going to learn who you are and
what you need to be in the future. Yeah. And
I think it's an interesting point, but one that we
need to make at this point as well is that
everybody's journey is going to be different, and some people
will go through significant heartache and others will not. And
that is also okay because we can't we're constantly comparing
ourselves to each other. So I remember when I was
(26:55):
going through this down day and I'd lost the Olympics
and I'd lost a couple of babies. A friend of
mine died from cancer at the same time, and I thought,
I can't even possibly be sad because she's just lost
her life, and so straight away I was trying to
downplay my own pa because she went through worse. We've
got to stop doing that. Yeah, you know, even if
your pain is not as significant to someone else's, it's all,
you know, so that you have to acknowledge that. And
(27:16):
we've got to stop that comparison of well, they've got
it worse than us. They've got you know, they've got
a more disappointing life, they've been through more, they've had
a more tragic past. You don't need true tragedy to
build a new phoenix. You just need to look at
your own reaction to that space and know that that's
all you need.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But it is sometimes useful to know the logistics of
how people do manage the things that they manage, because,
particularly for you, you do have six incredible children on top
of one of the most demanding careers that you could
possibly go into, and then again you're always getting qualified
for other things on the side and doing public speaking.
There's a lot of logistics involved financially in a pivot,
(27:54):
in having your children taken care of in like you said,
the mum gilt and managing that. How have you sorted
out your ability to go back to study, because that's
a big barrier for a lot of people thinking I
want to go back and requalify in something, but logistically
I don't know how.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
That would work. And look, that's a tricky one and
I backfired it. I failed pretty miserably at at a time.
So I moved to Sydney to be closer to family.
So I think that is something you need to think about,
is who's your network and who do you need to
support you through that space and also hold you up
and be accountable if you need it. I bought a
house right near my parents. Three quarters the way through
my degree. I had a baby by myself with a
sperm donor, so that was a new chapter and I
(28:31):
hadn't calculated my mortgage payments correctly. Got to a point
where I was like, oh my god, I'm out and done,
and we tried to sell the house. It wouldn't sell.
I ended up moving into the garage, which please tax
it at man, don't come running after me. But I
basically rented the rooms out in my house to pay
for the food for my children and to pay for
a O pair because I was a single mum to
help me with the kids. And I was so lucky
(28:52):
that my wonderful second mother owns a day care center
and so she let my kids come practically nothing, which
was extraordinary. So again it's those people around you. And
eventually I had to go cap in hand and ask
my parents to help me out. And so I am
lucky because not everyone has a a mum and dad
that can veil them out when it came to that
financial But I really bug it it up. So what's
the answer there? Get your finances in order, soon, work
(29:15):
out what you can afford to do, take out and
loan if you need to scale back on the holidays
if you need to, you will find a way. Like
I literally lived in our garage for nine months and
rented the rooms. You'll find a way. But I tried
to do it the hard way. Luck I did, Like
some forward planning is a really good idea. We got there,
but and I learned a lot. But what we also
learned from there is that we could live in a
caravan if we needed to which we're doing next year,
(29:36):
because you don't need as much as you think you do.
And what would have been the worst case scenariout of that,
I could have stopped medical school and gone and worked
for a you. So there's always there's going to be
a way. You've just got to think about where your
backfires are and also look for what your flaws are
going to be. I am financially terrible, and I do
need someone to help me, so sausage, I'm not great
with a diary, and so I tried to have no
(29:58):
personal assistant for years and years and years, and fitting
speaking gigs in now and a lot of the you know,
the corporate stuff that I do as well for the
government and stuff, and then my children and my medicine,
and I needed someone to write to do my diary.
And a year ago I started finally doing it, and
it's the best thing.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I've ever Doesn't change your life, change my life.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
So it's okay to ask Who's what I'm saying here,
It's okay to ask for help, But planning, I think
is key. And then again, be brave and if you
need to make a decision halfway through that it's not
for you. At least you've given it a try and
there's no regret.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
I feel like the best decision making tool that I
have employed over the past couple of years has been
a future regret management matrix. And all I ask is
what will future me regret more? And because that's the
way that I decide things, even if it doesn't turn
out how I hoped, at least I won't regret the
decision because I'm like, well, I couldn't have decided any
(30:47):
other way.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yes, regret, it's one emotion. I think it is probably
the hardest one to ever live with the guilty of
the regret of not doing something. So at least don't
have that.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
And so you've come through the messy medal and waded
your way through by extraordinary hard work. I mean, honestly,
I just don't think there are many people who work
as hard as you, but also who just get on
with it. What were you saying before you needed to
get your car seat fitted because you kept adding children
to the mix, you were so annoyed having to pay
for it that you got.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Qualified and how to install yourself. Yeah, I've always been
you don't rest on color. I have been lucky with that.
I'm resourceful. Probably my mum and my dad taught me
that lesson. But I also just think I'm excited by
learning and I hate not being able to do something,
so there's plenty of things I can't do. Actually, that
was one of the hardest things about pivoting into medicine
was actually going from being very good at something to
(31:47):
being god awful at something, as in not having the
skills to do stuff and being and having people half
my age. So if you are thinking about it about
the big change, it is worth calculating this in your
thought process of someone half your age telling you you
suck and that you've got to work harder and don't worry.
You're really junior. You'll be better in a few years time.
You're like, oh my.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Gosh, this is when is this going to so going
back to being beginner.
Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, there's the hardest thing about change, genuinely, which was
going back to the bottom of the ladder again and
having to rely and you know, with respect I see
especially you know, things like medicine. It's someone's life on
the line. But that's the biggest trick and challenge that
I've had to overcome.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
And what about the identity piece of having spent so
much of your life being known for one thing and
now introducing yourself differently, perceiving yourself differently, Like how.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Do you describe to people what you do? I now
actually describe myself as a doctor, so I rarely even
put athlete in there. Now I'm a doctor. I've got
six kids, so that's my main identity. Oh, I used
to play with sport or I used to just a
little it's just a little side. That's how I do
it in my dating profile these days. But likes to
run casually. Casually No. So look, I have completely and
(32:59):
wholeheartedly pivoted into that medical space, especially because I have
a voice in women's health so much. I do a
lot of advocacy and lots of different in continents and
a civical cancer awareness groups and things like that. So
I feel like I've been in it for twelve years now, Sarah,
It's not like it's stopped. Yeah. So I started medicine
when I was twenty nine and I'm forty two now.
I had two years off with the kids obviously, when
I had the little ones. But I've been in it
(33:20):
now for longer, really than I competed at the Olympics,
so wow, yeah, it's my life.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Yeah. And so when anyone listening is feeling the fear
that you mentioned, like it is really scary to go
back to the beginning. There's a lot of ego that
you have to remove, oh your melody in like, but
it can be, as you said, incredibly rewarding and it
could be the thing that becomes your defining moment, yeah,
moment and the passion of your life. What advice would
(33:47):
you give to anyone who might be on the cusp
of that change at the beginning, And what advice would
you give yourself back at the start when you had
failed the exam the first time?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Hoof, that's good ones. Look, I really think you need
to be pragmatic about it and write down what your
goal is and then work out what your fears and
what the things could be that are holding you back
and cross off all the ones that you know is
just your past experience is trying to crap your mindset
off and say you can't do it. So really just
write it right, it down and rule out what is
really going to hold you back and what's not And
doing so, also write down your strengths in it's just
(34:18):
sit there and write down, well, what part of me
is going to make this work and what part of
this is going to make it good, and then share
it with a close group of friends so that they've
got your support when you're making that change. You've already
said as well, surround yourself by people that are going
to advocate you in that space. There's plenty of naysays,
plenty of people they're going to tell you can't, possibly
because they feel like they can't, and therefore they project
that onto you. And then always remember that you don't
(34:38):
have to go through with it. If you make a
decision and it's not right, what comes out of that
will be so much more of a learning than the
success that you'll eventually you have if you do finish
that goal. So I think you've got nothing to lose
once you've worked out what the truth things to lose are.
You've got nothing to lose by giving it a go.
And what I say to myself, You know, I had
to say this literally yesterday because right now I'm in
the middle of registrar training and it's big hours and
(35:00):
I'm so useless, Like having to call your boss in
it too in the morning because you're just not sure
if you can get this baby out safely, and you're like,
please come in. I'm really sorry. I'm almost good enough
to deliver this baby, but I'm really scared I'm not
going to be able to And then they stand next
to you deliver it beautifully, and they look at you
and you go, oh great, you called me in for nothing,
and you just but you have to because it's a
safety it's a safety things and it's the right thing
to do. But knowing and I think, I can't do
(35:23):
this anymy I'm going to quit. I can't do this anymore.
I can't do this. And then you look think, well,
my five years ago, five years ago, Yanna would give
anything to be in the shoes that I'm in right now.
Like absolutely, I'd given an arm. Couldn't operate with that
an arm, but I'd give an arm to be You'd
find a way, do you know what I mean? Like
it's when you're grappling with challenging parts of your journey,
there is a part of you that knows that you're
(35:45):
so lucky to be there, and sometimes it's just taking
a step back and going oh no, you're right. You're right.
Five years ago, I would have been so stoked with
being where I am now. And that's what you've got
to focus on, is that you always wanted to be here,
and now you're here. To suck it up a little
bit and keep going.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
That perspective is so easy to lose or forget, but
so important to remind yourself of. And then you did
mention that there have been so many times where things
didn't necessarily go your way, but they've always taught you
something for the future. And I think it's one thing
that you can go on up skill at any time,
you can go back to study. But then there's also
all the random skills you acquire in your earlier experiences
(36:21):
that don't seem like they're relevant to anything else. What
are some of the things that from those early athletics
days have really stuck with you through medical school, through
becoming a doctor.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Look, I think the persistence was always going to be
there because you're always chasing something that seems a little
bit aloof because you know that are you going to win?
Are you not? Are you going to make it? Are
you not? Are you going to pass an exam? Who
knows and that persistent work ethic ultimately gets you your goal.
Do you remember My old coach was Phil King, and
he had the five p's, perfect preparation events piss poor performers.
(36:54):
So I like his quote though, because it is right.
If you perfect the way you perform, and then you
consistently show up for yourself every day, things are going
to work. And it's a matter of just hanging in
there and hanging in there and hanging in there. And
sport pre sense that opportunity to learn that at an
early age, So which is why I think it's important
for kids to do sport. You don't have to be
good at it, It just teaches you those lessons of failure, resilience,
(37:16):
keep going, camaraderie, friendship, support, and I think that really
does hold you in any job you choose. After you
know your teenage years in sport.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
What would you say along the way has been your
biggest hurdle?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
And have the bigger they got?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Has that made the previous ones pale in comparison?
Speaker 1 (37:36):
You have no idea how accurate that is. And funnily enough,
and again I come back to you, you only know
what you know. So I remember in my sports career.
Losing the Olympics felt like I was everything was you know,
was dying around me and my whole world was collapsing.
And then the miscarriages certainly felt like they took the
Olympic disappointment away a little bit because they felt so
much more significant. And then you know, now, working in medicine,
(37:57):
I have, you know, most of the time ninety nine
point nine percent of the time, it's phenomenal and it
is the most extraordinary job where you get to be
that person who you know, helps birth that baby and
give it to that mom, or help that woman with
a colapse have changed in her symptoms, like it's extraordinary.
But I work at a very high level tertiary hospital,
and horrible things happen, and birth is scary. People underestimate
how dangerous birth can be and how outcomes can go badly,
(38:20):
very quickly, and I've already been present for some of them.
And I had an event last year where I could
barely walk into the hospital afterwards because I found it
so so shattering afterwards that I did not think I
could ever be a doctor again. And it paled every
loss I've ever had into utter insignificance, like even the
two divorces, which I'm still so embarrassed about, and so
(38:43):
I just want to ask it. I have a wife,
I don't care anyone who wants me, but it's just
it's getting to that point. But the reality is that
when you're as busy as me that men partners don't
want They don't want to be fourth fiddle in someone's life.
They want to you know. So it's really hard. People
are often afraid of the success and I am quirky
(39:05):
and different, but I would love that. It's something I
would still really hope happens. So yeah, So when horrible
things happen, they will adjust your focus and they will
shed a light on different disappointments and take that pain away.
And that's how you have to see them. So if
you are in the middle of something truly shocking right now,
a light will come, that day will pass. You wake
up the next day, and at that time it feels
(39:26):
like you won't, but if you just give it breath
and time and space, you will heal slowly. And again,
something else will happen later in life that'll pale that
one back into insignificant. And I think that's part of
the blessing of being human and alive, because one day
you won't be One day, that chapter and that light
will go off, and you'll have all these experiences that
you've been through in life, and hopefully you'll look back
(39:47):
at them and think, Wow, what a life I've lived.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
It's actually unfathomable I think to anyone outside of the
field of medicine that you would have to face something
like that in the working day and then go home.
So how do you compartmentalize when work is unfathomably devastating.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Oh, that's a good question. Look, there's two flip sides
for that, because it happens most weeks, that's something a
little bit. You know, I'm gonna be honest, I probably
wouldn't sye it shitty happens. He's like, oh gosh, I
wish that outcome I had been a bit different. And
most of the time, it's those kids that run at
you at the door, smiling at you like they don't
know anything that's happened. They don't care who you are.
They just love you, which makes it all better and
(40:29):
it allows me to completely shift off and change. And
I know, you know, not everyone has the privilege of
being a parent and or may not want to. So
that's definitely not everybody's solution, but for me, it's a
huge part of my strength, of my resilience is that
my kids are just my backbone and weapon in this space.
But there are definitely times and like that last year
where I was I came in and I couldn't even
(40:49):
face them and found even looking at them made me
feel guilty because you just feel like you're like, oh God,
I'm so lucky, but people out there aren't, and you
have to find a way. And it might be that
you say to your little guys, you sit down and
say mummy needs half an hour, and you go to
your room and you cry your eyes out again that
you know, for me, flashing the pan, anger or whatever
it is you need to do, go for a really
(41:10):
hard run, get it out of your system, give yourself
the time to break, because if you don't, you'll explode
at the kids, or you explode at your husband, or
or you'll smash something in because you don't mean to
but because you're completely and utterly overwhelmed.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
That's I think the second time now that you've mentioned
go for a really hard run as.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Like a shakeout.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
So obviously I think some people walk away from sport
and have to walk away from it altogether if they
can't do it at the level that they used to.
But it sounds like sport is still quite an outlet
for you.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Oh, running is my drug of choice. Like I just
love it. And it's so funny, Sarah, because after I
stopped sport, I didn't want to run because you know,
you just think, OK, and a lot of us do that.
It took me ten goes to get back into running.
I had to catch a five k and I thought,
this is pretty funny. Is this Olympian five cat? I
had to do something to change it. And so I
do think it's important to hear that you need help,
(41:58):
Like I really struggled, but once you got into it
and I recognize again how good I felt, and now
it is I love it. Wow.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
It's funny that I think a lot of us our
threshold for giving up on something is like attempt three,
maybe attempt four. And there's been so many times in
this episode where you've said, oh, I got to the
tenth try, And I'm like, that's actually, in itself a
really good lesson that just because you don't get something
in the first couple of times. It doesn't mean stop.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
No, I agree.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
The people who make it are the people who just
keep going one more time than.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
One time, exactly exactly well.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
I mean, if anyone listening didn't already know how extraordinary
Yana is, you will certainly appreciate it now. And I
mean nothing short of an hour will do you justice.
Thank you so much for sharing such valuable insights and
sharing so generously to anyone else who is on.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Their pathway to a pivot my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
Pivot Club. We've got another brand new episode coming your
way next week, so be sure to hit that follow
button so it lands right in your feed. And if
you love the show, please do tell your friends about it.
Give us a rating and review in your podcast app.
It truly means so much. This episode of Pivot Club
(43:20):
was produced by Sally Best. The executive producer is Courtney Ammenhauser.
Catch you next time. Momma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners
of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on
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