June 22, 2025 • 40 mins
This episode features Kellie Carter-Bell who bravely shares her harrowing journey through domestic abuse, addiction, and the heartbreaking loss of her sisters. Discover the power of resilience as Kelly recounts her transformation from victimhood to becoming a fierce advocate for women facing domestic violence. Tune in for raw, honest conversations that illuminate the realities of survival and the importance of seeking help in a world filled with challenges."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appote production. This podcast contains references to extreme physical violence
and psychological trauma. It is not recommended for younger audiences
and listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Real Crime with
(00:27):
Adam Shand I'm your host Adam Shand. Kelly Carterbell is
a walking, talking example of the power of resilience and love.
She really should be dead after what she's gone through
after being attacked by her husband in her workplace. This
had followed years of dangerous liaisons in the criminal world.
She was one of four sisters. She's the sole survivor,
(00:51):
having lost all three siblings to drugs. Remarkably, she's also
the daughter of a police officer who made a move
on her mum while her criminal husband was in jail.
That copper he disappeared when the crook came out of jail.
I was lucky enough to be able to reunite Kelly
with her dad after forty years. How do I say this?
(01:14):
I found him?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Is he wise?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah? He is.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I'm sorry that I've been waiting for that for forty
six years.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
This was a lucky break for kell and she deserved it,
and she hasn't looked back. She's now an advocate for
women suffering domestic violence, and she's in the Real Crime
studio to tell her story. Get a kel good.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
A Adam, How's things are amazing. The amazing thing is
what left me to be amazing is that missing piece
in the puzzle, which was my dad. And when I
connected with him, myself worth, my confidence, my love for myself.
(02:09):
It made me realize that I am a lovable human
being who deserves to be loved.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It was one of the most rewarding things of Mike.
When people ask me what story is that? I think
it really memorable that was one of them, because what
I couldn't believe was that you'd done interviews with other
journalists about all your adventures in the underworld with your
various partners and your husband, and no one had asked
you what happened to your father. You actually bowled me
up in an antique store in South Melbourne here and
(02:36):
you said, I've got a story for you. And when
you started chatting, you've talked about your dad. I've gone like, hey,
why hasn't someone found this bloke? It didn't take me long.
It turned out, funnily enough that when I was in
Perth doing a radio show. He used to ring up
to the show, so I'd already spoken him with. One
of those things was destiny. But you deserve to break
because you've been through the absolute meal. Let's talk about
(02:57):
where you began.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Where I began was the youngest I can remember, was
probably being about four years old and watching mumby beaten
by my sister's father. There was love, there was dinners cooked,
there was connection, there was routine when Dad was around.
(03:20):
All that went out the window as soon as the
roles had to be reversed when my sister's father would
be released from prison. So I can remember sitting at
windows at that age with Mum waiting to see whether
Snookie was going to be drunk or not, and whether
that mean a beating for her or not.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Snooky the Crook sounds like a lovable, cuddly person, but
he was far from that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, definitely, to some people he might be that, but
to me he was I was like a pawn almost.
I was sometimes made to call him Dad. I remember
one day he bought me a bike for my birthday,
but when I think back, that was probably because of
(04:06):
what happened prior the night before, the day before, or
it was like, Yeah, it was like a piece of
meat almost, you know, from from a nice life to
a shitty, shitty, shitty life. And when Dad disappeared that
life the shitty shitty shittiness lasted until I was I
(04:31):
broke the cycle from being hit twenty years ago. But
the recovery of this and what I've lived is daily.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Because all you saw was a criminal role model for men,
and you ended up dating a succession of Underworld characters,
some of the big names that we all know, like
Mark Moran was a good friend of yours and other
people like that. Jed Horton. I think you knew all those,
all those Della they're all dead, Yeah, they're all dead.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Like when I was thinking about coming into do this
with you, Adam, I remember I would have been about
let's say eight or nine, and there was a few
bank robbers in Jaiker Jiker and Mum and I literally
smuggled a gun in there. We had to put it
on top of a locker. I'm not sure whether I've
(05:26):
told you the story about my sister Sissy being in
Pentridge and telling me I have to go and see
her husband's brother Peter, because he's going to give me
a letter to give to her, but I have to
hide it. And I got to Peter's house and he said,
do you know what you're doing. I was fourteen years
of age. Do you know what you're doing? And I said, yeah,
(05:47):
I'm taking a letter into my sister. And he handed
me a bag of orange powder. I put it up
my sleeve. I had a watch on and the old
days with the scanners when you went to the prison
and it beat, and thank goodness, it was my watch.
So there was things like that that was cleaning up
(06:09):
a murder after Dennis had killed the guy in the barrel,
like literally painting walls, ripping up.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Carpet because you'd fallen in with Dennis Allen and his crew.
And that kath pet and Gill down there in Cremorn,
and I think you're talking about Anton Kenny. That's Hill's
Angel who was murdered inside Dennis Allen's house. That was
a charnel house that placed there several murders in there.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There certainly were, yes, certainly, and it just fascinates me
to think that that was the norm. You know, I
hear the barrel being found in the river, and I
know it's my brother in law. And it's just normal.
I mean prior to that, like we've spoken about my
(06:52):
childhood sexual assault that I wasn't aware of until I've
done an amazing boxing program and that consisted of my
first time was four, my next time was eight, and
then gang rate from eleven to thirteen by the Carlton Boys.
(07:13):
So I didn't know I was almost worthless or lovable
until my dad come into my life.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
You know what, You've never told me that part of
the story. No, And it chills me to my bones.
That's just I already knew you'd been through a lot,
but that's just beyond.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Imagining it is it is? But like I always say,
I'm the chosen one, aren't I? Why why? And I
have the courage to speak and my passion is to
pay my lifetime of abuse forward. Like why did I
end up like that? Is it Dad's brains and Mum's strength.
(07:56):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I think the religious people talk about God gives us
our own burden to carry because he knows we're strong enough,
and you've proven that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
At the same time, and I don't want to overshadow Natroman,
You've definitely suffered, But being a partner to an underworld
figure had a certain racy, thrilling element to it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Try to describe that, Oh, it definitely did. Going from
the days to oh where did I start? Would have
been Olfonse, Mark Jason. After the gang rate was happening,
Mark sort of took me under his wing and tried
to show me a different way. Mike Moran, Yes, didn't
(08:37):
abuse me or anything like that. That went on to
you know, nightclubbing at fifteen, like I said, with ol
Fonts and then people the doors just open, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Alphonse Gangitana, the Black Prince of leg On Street.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
That's it. That's it. And now the doors of the
nightclub just open. The drinks are lined up, the drugs
are there, whatever you want, you know, bags of diamonds
can come into the Jaiker Jaiker Hotel, you name it.
And there's an other thing, Adam. When I was about
I would have been just after Gary Abdallah was murdered. No,
(09:12):
Gary Abdallah was still alive actually because he ended up
with the gun. I don't know whether this is going
to get me in trouble or not, but I picked
up a policeman's gun outside Ragan's nightclub, in Essendon. I
give that gun to Gary ab Della. Now I'm not
sure what that was used for or what that was
(09:33):
used in afterwards, Like honestly, I would have been maybe
fifteen or sixteen by this stage.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Because Abdellah was part of the Flemington crew of armed robbers,
including Victor Pierce, Graham Jensen and a whole bunch of others,
and they obviously went on to infamy. After Graham Jensen
was killed by police, they went on to kill two
police officers in Wall Street, South Era. That's right, But
you wonder whether that might have been part of that.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, I often wonder where that ended up, like the
gun from h Division. And imagine if that bag of
orange heroin, the highest grade of heroin that's ever been
in Australia, had killed.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
My sisters, because you lost all three.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
In the end, Yes, in the end, one hung herself,
Sissy who married Dennis in prison. Tammy died in a
street in Carlton in a car, and Carrie died eleven
hours after being released from prison. But she did rob
(10:39):
the Chinese mafia, so we're not sure whether she had
a hot shot or.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Not hot shot being someone administered that to her, to
kill her, to murder her.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, footscrade, train station, car park.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And the problem is, back in those days, someone like
your sister, they would be hard pressed to get a
proper investigation.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh yeah, it's like they were just they weren't treated
as humans back then, because Heroin added, it's not like
it is today. You know, I could just being tormented
and laughed at. And I had a dream that a
friend's dad died, and silly me went to school and
(11:18):
told her I've never met the man in my life.
And the next day he fell asleep at the wheel
of his truck and died. So I was once again
after being the gang right. Then it went on to
bullying because everyone blamed me for her dad dying. And
then by thirteen, first partner, first black eye.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
The start of unspeakable violence because you went from the
frying pan into the fire because you ended up hooking
up with a man named Peter yep and what was
his background?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Watch dad beat mum, so thought it was okay to
do it. Buddy's brother was an AFL footballer. So your
choices are what make the difference. As I've learned, as
I'm recovering what I've worked out with perpetrators people with
narcissism disorder. They don't change, you have to. I'm still
(12:12):
to this day being tormented by my last partner to
his daughter, a twenty two year old that he's now
turned the abuse to her. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, it's an endless cycle.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, and let's go back to Peter though. Yep, he
you discovered later. There was happy times in the beginning,
I presume, but there was always violence.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah. Yeah. So first black Eye at thirteen, like there,
I had to He was so possessed with me that
I had to ride my pushbike from Princess Hill High
School to Melbourne UNI every lunch time because that's where
mum worked, to sit with her. So I couldn't speak
to anyone, couldn't look at anyone at school, and then
(12:58):
ride back within forty five minutes or something. You know,
all my lunch money went to him black Eyes. Often
going to school with black Eyes, Adam, like the duty
of care being gang raped. I got pregnant and the
school knew and they called me in the office and
(13:18):
nothing has ever been done. I went to school with
black eyes, no duty of care, and I'm chasing you know,
chasing some kind of reimbursement for what I've been through
in school and them knowing what was happening. It was
happening at lunch time, but not on school grounds.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So you think you might go a financial compensation hopefully. Well,
I think that's quite reasonable. I mean, there is a
duty of care there, and there was even back then
there was a thing called the police. Yes, who could
have been called in. Yeah, I mean I think back
in those days though, I feel like violence against young
women in particular was almost like a social welfare issue
rather than a crime.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes, exactly. In the end, with Peter, to get away
from him, I used to have to have a taxi
waiting outside the school and get a taxi quickly home
to the Carlton flat and run up the stairs. But
then there might be two nights later where he'd be
outside at two in the morning, I'd go downstairs to
him and wake up with two black eyes and no
(14:21):
questions asked.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So how did you finally get away from that relationship?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
When I think about it, it's I'm not sure. I
think I realized that there was more to life and
I wanted to do something with myself, like I was
so desperate at school, I called my woodwork teacher dad, Like,
I was so desperate for love. That's all I ever wanted,
(14:52):
and that's what I chase, But I chased it with
the wrong people. Now I know, as long as I
love myself, that's the main thing. But yeah, Like, how
desperate's that you to be calling you would work teacher dad.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Well, I think it's natural in that circumstance where you're
not getting any.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
He resembled the look of my dad, and I just
I think it was probably one of the first men
that understood what I was going through and took some care.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Because your real dad was far away. Yeah, and he
started his own family in another place. Yes, Yeah, And
you must have thought about him over the years.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
From the minute he left, I thought, if my dad left,
it was my fault. And then it was when I
was about thirty eight forty I realized, no, Dad left
because he loved me. So from forty to fifty four
when you found him, that question lingered in my head
(15:52):
that did he leave because he loved me? Or did
he leave because he.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Didn't love me and he was scared of the consequences.
We'll jump forward to be here. He was scared of
the consequences. And when I did find him and I
called him, and initially he sort of went, no, I
don't have a daughter, And I said, yes you do, mate,
Yes you do, and you should be proud of her.
And I'd like to reintroduce you. And that was the
start of your revival. But you had to go through
(16:16):
so many years of drama. Peter was off the scene.
But then John, the man.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You married yep at nineteen years of age in Pintroridge. Yeah,
there was. He was a small time crook, yeah, rapist, rapist, murderer, pedophile,
not so small.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Time actually no, but certainly not a big criminal name
of the underworld.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
No, don't go and rob a bank in your own car,
do you?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah? Trap for young players, rob the bank in your
own car? Yeah, Because later on you discovered he wasn't
just abusing you. He was a serial rapist who became
known as the Heidelberg Rapist in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yes he was, and that never stopped at him. But
I wasn't aware he was raping. And the whole time I.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Was with him, how many victims.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Ten including nieces and my mother.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Your own mother that one point twice you're telling me
new things here, Kelly.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
No one ever told me Adam until he tried to kill.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Me because you I'm not going to say it was
a stable family, but you stayed together. There was a union,
that's call it that. But it was full of violence.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
There were children, Yep, my first baby. Unfortunately I lost
a hydro cafless Heather Eve. She would be thirty seven,
nearly thirty eight. Makes me feel a bit old. And then,
like we spoke about in the last podcast, was their
sexual abuse with John, Yes, there was, because I had
four children under four, including twins. Yeah, and I was
(17:59):
just now that I can look back at it, I
was just like a slave, Just like a slave if
I didn't get that dinner on the table looking after
four kids underfore, you fat, lazy bitch, What have you
been doing all day? But I didn't realize that that
was abuse. And there was not a lot of physical
abuse with John, but the mental and the torment and
(18:21):
everything that goes in between.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And finally you had to get away, not just from
him but from this state.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yes, yes, what happened. Yes, So John and Henry Morhun
killed a man that had robbed Henry's wife for a
gold bracelet. He come home and told me once again,
another murder. I don't do anything with it. It was
a really interesting scary time Adam because he wouldn't take
(18:49):
police protection, so he was still going to court with Henry.
Although he turned.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Dog, he was giving up his brother.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we went into witness protection. We
changed name. Hims moved from Frankston to Mornington because he
thought he could look after us. Had to change names
again because Henry apparently found out who we were and
in that witness protection wheel, Oh my god, that was terrifying.
(19:23):
You know, there was you got to go to all
these undisclosed places almost you know, to get a tax
file number, to get on the plane, like to go
to court. We were living up in Queensland and that
system was terrifying. One night we were in a motel
in Bell Street, Preston, and homicide squad detective was with us,
(19:47):
and the people downstairs who run the hotel knew something
was happening but didn't know what it was. I had
the two kids, very pregnant with my twins. They ring
up about twelve o'clock and say, we've just found a
man outside your door. He said, he's d here last
night and he's looking for the toilet. So thank goodness,
(20:09):
a homicide squad detective was armed. And I'm standing in
this motel room with two kids, heavily pregnant. Why they
run out to look for him, and that took about
half an hour. Oh god, I was thinking he's waiting
around for that plan for them to run to come
(20:30):
and get me. And when John did turn witness protection
protected witness, I imagined that I would be murdered by
Henry all the time. Yeah, he was a bad, bad man.
And yeah, him and John did some disgusting things together,
made friends in jail, as you do, and yeah, I
(20:53):
was still learning the lesson.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And that's the funny thing about if you give States evidence,
your name is suppressed forever until after your death. So
it prevented you from telling the story in a full
way and identifying him and also possibly giving other victims
a chance to know, yes, this was the man who
(21:16):
raped you.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yep, exactly. When we went to court against Henry, his
record ended up in the room with the jury, so
he I don't know anyway, he got off it. He
got off it, and we'd moved, we'd changed names, We've
done everything. I got a phone call from the witness
(21:37):
protection place, I can remember it quite significantly, telling me
that he got off. I just sat on that phone
and sobbed for I reckon. It was about an hour
while the copper listened to me, tried to console me. Yeah,
I thought Dan, for sure he's going to come. And
I always thought that he'd get me, cut me up
(21:59):
into little pieces, put me in an envelope, and send
me back to John. But in the end it was
John that almost cut me up.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Let's get to that.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
What happened, Okay, So there wasn't violence, and there was
all the other abuse that I didn't understand. I thought
a black eye was violent still though I'd lived it
for thirty something years, and I thought a black eye
was full of love. There was lots of arguing of things.
We had four children under four. He worked fifteen hours
(22:30):
a day. He was drinking a lot that was trying
to hide from me. One day I found a marijuana
plant growing out in the backyard, and my mum was
up on a holiday and I said, no chance, and
I went out and put it over the back fence
and smashed it. And Mum was absolutely terrified because he
(22:51):
hasn't got home from school, and he walked in and
he went out and found it, and he walked in
and he said, fuck your gout balls. So that must
have been one of his good days. He told people
at work for six weeks where he was working, watch
the news, Watch what I'm going to do. Watch the news,
(23:12):
Watch what I'm going to do. I took an intervention
order out on him three weeks prior because I was
getting threats. He went to my workplace at Westfield Shopping Town,
cut up all my car tires. He went to my
house with my four year old son, cut up with
my work clothes. I was working for Fletcher Jones, so
(23:32):
even though I had the four kids under four, still
wanted to go to work. After we'd separated, he would
hassle me. He'd ring the work, he'd drop the kids off,
you know, earlier than what he should it, so I'd
have to leave work. It was a lot of Now
I no coercive control, and I ended up becoming friends
(23:53):
with a lovely guy. He would have the kids on
the weekend and one of the kids said, Ken's at
mummy's house. And well, from then, the threats in front
of my children. Of what he would wear was a
father's day outfit. I'd bought him prior from the children,
from Fletcher Jones where he would do it, how he
(24:16):
would do it, and when he would do it. And
not only that, he made my four year old son
that had been listening for three weeks what he was
going to do to me, choose the knife to kill
his mother. My son didn't tell me till he was sixteen.
(24:36):
And then you're at work, yep, I'm at work. I've
dropped the twenties off at day Kemm because he had
James and Paris, the older two, for three weeks. I'm
in witness protection three weeks. And the police were too
scared to go and serve an intervention in order on
(24:59):
him to get witness protection, please from down here to
let him know he's going to be so. And then
about ten coppers went there to serve him. But I
had to go to a refuge with the two kids
for three weeks. He wouldn't give James and Paris back,
and they were too scared to go and do anything.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
And that piece of paper made no difference anywhere.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Oh my god, it's like a magic carpet right almost,
you know, you lifted up and then all of a
sudden boom, it's just worthless. That made him a lot worse,
as in, that's when I'm going to kill you, or
I'm going to slice your lips off, so another man,
I'll never look at you. Lots of different threats, and yeah,
(25:43):
the day come what happened. He was wearing what he
told me he'd be wearing, and I could see him
walking towards me. I was working with my boss at
the time. The work knew what was going on because
he was ringing Fletcher Jones, threatening everyone, and he had
James and Paris in the car with him down in
(26:05):
a Westfield shopping town car park. The flatmate was driving,
and he said to the flatmate, as soon as you
hear sirens take off, So he had fears spilt down
in the front of him. I could see him walking
towards me, and I could see that. Then I could
smell it, and I noticed that his shirt was sort
of tucked out from the front of his pants. And
(26:27):
he said to me, you can't lay these charges, And
I said, what charges. It's bloody intervention order to teach
you you can't do what you want. And he was
walking towards a corner and I was following him to
shut him up and not, you know, cause any chaos.
And I've seen him put his hand in his right
(26:47):
pocket and then her pulls out a fileting knife and
starts slashing at me. Basically, I have scars literally from
head to toe on my face. There are four cuts,
maybe through the control. He thought, well, if I can't
kill her, mame person, I want to look at her again.
That's what he always told me. And he did what
(27:11):
he tried to do. There was no security, there was
no help. There was a cleaner with a couple of
disposable nappies I could put on my face and my back,
my bum. I had a white dress on that was red.
They took me to the store next door.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He actually because then this cowardly piece of whatever, he
turned the knife on himself.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It didn't work. He can't even do that, right, But
I so went ran to help him. And I could
hear my boss screaming my name in the background, Cali Cally,
So thank goodness you ran to help him. Yeah, yep, desperately,
desperately Why because that's the person I am. Yeah, got
(27:57):
a heart of gold with a diamond in the middle.
I think that's that's the person I am. And there's
no other answer.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
It's true. Yeah, but you survived that. What happened to him?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Okay? So he went to hospital. He stabbed himself twice
and the third time hit the sternum, so it sort
of saved his life. But when they got him to hospital,
they performed an operation on him that had never been
performed before. So he had a sack of blood growing
around his heart and they had to pierce it and
(28:33):
that saved his life.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
So the next worthless life it was.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, the next week in the career mail in Queensland,
a double page right up of these wonderful doctors, how
they saved this man's life. No explanation of why he
was stabbed, what he'd done, or anything like that. Just
an amazing story about these amazing doctors. And he was
(29:00):
in charge with attempted murder?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
What was he charged with?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Going equip to harm?
Speaker 1 (29:05):
That's all? Yep? Was that the end of the story
with John and.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You Not really he come back into the kid's life.
When did he die? I think he died about two sixteen, maybe, yeah,
because Yep. That's when I had the courage to start talking.
I changed my life, really because I didn't have to
sit in a restaurant with my back to the wall.
I knew we couldn't come and kill me anymore, which
(29:33):
is I thought would be the end.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
He died of cancer, I believe, Yeah, and karma and karma, Yeah,
they called it right. Wack got his right wack maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, yeah, probably wasn't slow enough though, But he ended
up remarrying I think Adam, and had no fucking ears.
He cut them off and slushed flushed them down the
toilet because he couldn't see his children because he tried
to kill their mother. But some crazy woman married him
and he had some superannuation and my kids weren't even
(30:04):
in title to that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I've never had a scent maintenance. Never. Yeah. So I've
been raped by many many, many legal systems, a lot
of systems. But I still fight because I need to
leave a legacy for this children, because I'm talking this
and this children have watched this. Because after John, I
(30:28):
still thought I was a worthless piece of shit and
went to the next pert well, and that was.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
A continuation of the abuse. You suffered, and I don't
want to go too deep in that because this person's
still around and he's still haunting your life in certain ways.
So I don't want this to be the next signal.
And if you're listening to your cowardly piece of whatever,
you grow up. Grow up. But at least that relationship
was a turning point and you started to get some
self worth. You try to find that ability to get
(30:55):
away from all this. And you had another mentor which
I'm loving to throw in here, Shane Keith warn Yes
of Test cricket fame. What did Warnie help you with?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Well, I've loved Warnie since he was chubby with a mullet,
which he used to hate me, saying, but I'd only
been away from my last partner for three months. I
went to Crown and met him at a club there,
as you do. Sheard a little bit of my story
and he was just fascinated. In five minutes, what are
you talking about? What do you mean twenty three years
(31:30):
domestic violence and your ex husband trying to kill you?
I do not understand. And he sort of took me
under his wing and taught me that I was a
lovable human being who deserved to be loved and a
beautiful person inside and out. And the ripple effect of
that has literally changed my life. And I feel so
(31:55):
privileged to have had that chance. And like I said,
the ripple effect is priceless, and it goes on and
on and on.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, I can't bowl of flip or a wrong or anything,
but I'm very glad to be in the same company
as Warning, because I think that gave you some self
confidence and ability to go forward. And when you saw
me in the antique store here Gray's on Clarendon's three,
let's give Steve a bunk up here. You said, I've
got a story and I want to tell you, and
I had no choice but to come and tell your story.
(32:26):
And it's continuing because now you become an advocate. I
have tell us all about that.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Okay. So, unfortunately, Adam, I was an alcoholic for fifteen years.
I think I haven't hid that one from you. Maybe
some Saturday nights late text you might have caught it.
But I drank up to six years a night. I
haven't had a drink for over eleven months. Nights of
June is my freedom date. That will be a year.
(32:52):
So as you can imagine that abuse helped me back.
I thought alcohol was the answer. Alcohol was the anxiety.
I went and did a boxing course and wrighting course
called Left Right Wriit Hook. The documentary is now on Netflix.
I'm not in it unfortunately. So what it does is,
(33:13):
I'll just go back a little bit. I spent ten
years in front of a psychiatrist, sometimes twice a week
for about a year. It did a lot, but I
still left with all this trauma in my invisible backpack
or in my guts stuck. So I've done a lot
of work, but I hadn't found me and my strength
(33:34):
and my courage and my passion. So this boxing course
is we go in, we get prompts. So there was
a life changing one for me. That was the second class.
I did the boxing class three rounds, so three eight
weeks times I stood up for myself. Can you imagine
(33:55):
what that looks like for me? Black and blue in
a corner, And then we went in and we punched
logs on the floor instead of the bags. We don't
punch anyone except the bags and the other equipment. And
something something happened. I don't know what it was. It
was like, okay, the trauma's moving, No one's coming to
(34:18):
hit me. I don't need to be scared. And gradually
I found what I needed to get rid of and
who zill had power of me? And yeah, that's what
I did just week by week wrote like my journals
would be a book. I'm going to do it again
in June. Yeah. It just taught me that you can
(34:39):
move the trauma at your body and when you do,
you're unstoppable.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Because there are women listening to this right now and
possibly men as well. Who in You're in a terribly
dark place, terribly dark place, but you managed.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, And if I can do it, anyone can, you know?
Losing three sisters to heroin not turning to that needle
fascinates me. And like I always like to say, they
don't change. You have to love, shouldn't hurt, and please
(35:12):
please please don't ask us why don't we leave? What
you can say is or the best question should be
is what can I do to help you get out safe?
Because if someone had asked me that twenty years ago,
I would have said, what do you mean safe? He
bashes me because he loves me. I'm very safe.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I'm very loved because immedia needs to learn this because
I've covered so many of these sorts of stories over
the years. And I did ask that question, why didn't
you leave?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And I think I was deaf to the answer yep. Almost.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I was in a forum. We sent a link once
and I taught them that what do you mean why
don't we ask why don't you leave? Where do you
want me to start? Mate? Or where would you like
me to start? You've got to spare three days. I
got a son who was made to choose the knife
to kill try and kill me by his father, and
graduate year six because we had to run to an
(36:07):
emergency house from the next partner. So how oldould have
you been? Twelve? Like? Where do I start paying two
rents for three years? Because you have to keep your
house in the commission and pay your emergency housing rent,
selling your soul to get an intervention order, and then
(36:30):
being still abused and going to court and asking for
it to be extended, and the judge telling me, what
do you mean? Him coming to your door is a problem?
Like if I hadn't have been where I'd been, this
is stuck in my head forever. I would have read
(36:52):
out of that court and been abused for the rest
of my.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Life and possibly murdered.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You know what amazes me the stat that I think
it's one Australian woman every nine days gets murdered by
the domestic partner. I think it feels like it's.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
More it's one at five at the minute. We have.
We had five and seven days a couple of weeks ago,
last week in Australia.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
What is happening with our young men or men generally.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
I think it's it's almost becoming like a war that's
almost men against women. Like when men are like that,
they think that all women are the same, and like,
I'm living proof. I could be a man hater, you know,
I could want to kill them, and I don't. I
(37:39):
have had five men in my life that have got
me here today, including you, including Shane, including my dad,
including that psychiatrist and then a psychologist that taught me
this isn't the way. So I think it's choices. I
think it's they have to be taught a lot longer.
(38:01):
I get on tram with young teenage boys and I think,
oh my god, we have got so long to go.
The law needs to be changed. One domestic violence. You
get locked up, you know, you get locked up. The
prisons are getting full, but the cemeteries are overflowing with
(38:21):
dead women, the thing that keep this world going. What
the fuck would you do without us? Why keep killing us?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Kelly Carterbell, you are my superhero. You've kept it all together,
You've made yourself a new future. You're still full of love,
and I'm so pleased to be a part of your
journey and to let you tell your truth to other
women and families who are listening. Because it is a
war and we have to win this one. And I
really urge people out there report it, report to get
(38:51):
the police involved. And if you're not getting the right
service over the counter, ask for the sergeant. If the
sergeant doesn't do what it's supposed to, get the senior
sergeant and the inspector, and do not stop. There's somebody
there in your station or in your district who will
do the business for you. And this is the only
way we're going to beat this.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, And a lot of laws have to change, Adam,
A lot of laws have to change. The interventre orders
are just I know someone that's broke one hundred times
and they do high fives about it to each other.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, I think we've got to remand more people, yes,
and make people safe and remember the victims here, rather
than just giving people their rights as they accused. I mean,
let them go to court and prove their innocence then
they can walk. In my opinion, you know, it always
reminds me of my old mate Brian Francis Murphy Copper
in South Melbourne from the fifties through the eighties. He'd
see these men in court after bashing their wives and
(39:42):
they'd all be clean, in a nice suit and so forth,
but it wouldn't melt in their mouth, and he would
see them get off and he'd say that I'm going
to meet you around the corner and give them an
absolute hiding. You know, we can't do that anymore. But
society is just jack of all this and your story
is one of so many, so we want to share
more of this on real crime. So Kelly Carter Bill,
(40:02):
thank you so much once again.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Welcome. I just want to say, Adam, that's just a snippet.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
It is just a snippet. There's a lot more to count.
That was Kelly Cadabell and really it's up to everybody
to address this problem, but you know, make those reports,
seek out the helplines one eight hundred. Respect is who
you should be talking to, and you should also get
(40:27):
onto crime stoppers, call your local police and you can
also share your stories with us. Adam Shanned writer at
gmail dot com. It's been a pleasure talking to you
with the Kelly. This has been a real crime with
Adam Shan Thanks for listening.
Appote production. This podcast contains references to extreme physical violence
and psychological trauma. It is not recommended for younger audiences
and listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Real Crime with
(00:27):
Adam Shand I'm your host Adam Shand. Kelly Carterbell is
a walking, talking example of the power of resilience and love.
She really should be dead after what she's gone through
after being attacked by her husband in her workplace. This
had followed years of dangerous liaisons in the criminal world.
She was one of four sisters. She's the sole survivor,
(00:51):
having lost all three siblings to drugs. Remarkably, she's also
the daughter of a police officer who made a move
on her mum while her criminal husband was in jail.
That copper he disappeared when the crook came out of jail.
I was lucky enough to be able to reunite Kelly
with her dad after forty years. How do I say this?
(01:14):
I found him?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Is he wise?
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Yeah? He is.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
I'm sorry that I've been waiting for that for forty
six years.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
This was a lucky break for kell and she deserved it,
and she hasn't looked back. She's now an advocate for
women suffering domestic violence, and she's in the Real Crime
studio to tell her story. Get a kel good.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
A Adam, How's things are amazing. The amazing thing is
what left me to be amazing is that missing piece
in the puzzle, which was my dad. And when I
connected with him, myself worth, my confidence, my love for myself.
(02:09):
It made me realize that I am a lovable human
being who deserves to be loved.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
It was one of the most rewarding things of Mike.
When people ask me what story is that? I think
it really memorable that was one of them, because what
I couldn't believe was that you'd done interviews with other
journalists about all your adventures in the underworld with your
various partners and your husband, and no one had asked
you what happened to your father. You actually bowled me
up in an antique store in South Melbourne here and
(02:36):
you said, I've got a story for you. And when
you started chatting, you've talked about your dad. I've gone like, hey,
why hasn't someone found this bloke? It didn't take me long.
It turned out, funnily enough that when I was in
Perth doing a radio show. He used to ring up
to the show, so I'd already spoken him with. One
of those things was destiny. But you deserve to break
because you've been through the absolute meal. Let's talk about
(02:57):
where you began.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Where I began was the youngest I can remember, was
probably being about four years old and watching mumby beaten
by my sister's father. There was love, there was dinners cooked,
there was connection, there was routine when Dad was around.
(03:20):
All that went out the window as soon as the
roles had to be reversed when my sister's father would
be released from prison. So I can remember sitting at
windows at that age with Mum waiting to see whether
Snookie was going to be drunk or not, and whether
that mean a beating for her or not.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
Snooky the Crook sounds like a lovable, cuddly person, but
he was far from that.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah, definitely, to some people he might be that, but
to me he was I was like a pawn almost.
I was sometimes made to call him Dad. I remember
one day he bought me a bike for my birthday,
but when I think back, that was probably because of
(04:06):
what happened prior the night before, the day before, or
it was like, Yeah, it was like a piece of
meat almost, you know, from from a nice life to
a shitty, shitty, shitty life. And when Dad disappeared that
life the shitty shitty shittiness lasted until I was I
(04:31):
broke the cycle from being hit twenty years ago. But
the recovery of this and what I've lived is daily.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Because all you saw was a criminal role model for men,
and you ended up dating a succession of Underworld characters,
some of the big names that we all know, like
Mark Moran was a good friend of yours and other
people like that. Jed Horton. I think you knew all those,
all those Della they're all dead, Yeah, they're all dead.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Like when I was thinking about coming into do this
with you, Adam, I remember I would have been about
let's say eight or nine, and there was a few
bank robbers in Jaiker Jiker and Mum and I literally
smuggled a gun in there. We had to put it
on top of a locker. I'm not sure whether I've
(05:26):
told you the story about my sister Sissy being in
Pentridge and telling me I have to go and see
her husband's brother Peter, because he's going to give me
a letter to give to her, but I have to
hide it. And I got to Peter's house and he said,
do you know what you're doing. I was fourteen years
of age. Do you know what you're doing? And I said, yeah,
(05:47):
I'm taking a letter into my sister. And he handed
me a bag of orange powder. I put it up
my sleeve. I had a watch on and the old
days with the scanners when you went to the prison
and it beat, and thank goodness, it was my watch.
So there was things like that that was cleaning up
(06:09):
a murder after Dennis had killed the guy in the barrel,
like literally painting walls, ripping up.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Carpet because you'd fallen in with Dennis Allen and his crew.
And that kath pet and Gill down there in Cremorn,
and I think you're talking about Anton Kenny. That's Hill's
Angel who was murdered inside Dennis Allen's house. That was
a charnel house that placed there several murders in there.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
There certainly were, yes, certainly, and it just fascinates me
to think that that was the norm. You know, I
hear the barrel being found in the river, and I
know it's my brother in law. And it's just normal.
I mean prior to that, like we've spoken about my
(06:52):
childhood sexual assault that I wasn't aware of until I've
done an amazing boxing program and that consisted of my
first time was four, my next time was eight, and
then gang rate from eleven to thirteen by the Carlton Boys.
(07:13):
So I didn't know I was almost worthless or lovable
until my dad come into my life.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
You know what, You've never told me that part of
the story. No, And it chills me to my bones.
That's just I already knew you'd been through a lot,
but that's just beyond.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Imagining it is it is? But like I always say,
I'm the chosen one, aren't I? Why why? And I
have the courage to speak and my passion is to
pay my lifetime of abuse forward. Like why did I
end up like that? Is it Dad's brains and Mum's strength.
(07:56):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I think the religious people talk about God gives us
our own burden to carry because he knows we're strong enough,
and you've proven that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
At the same time, and I don't want to overshadow Natroman,
You've definitely suffered, But being a partner to an underworld
figure had a certain racy, thrilling element to it.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Try to describe that, Oh, it definitely did. Going from
the days to oh where did I start? Would have
been Olfonse, Mark Jason. After the gang rate was happening,
Mark sort of took me under his wing and tried
to show me a different way. Mike Moran, Yes, didn't
(08:37):
abuse me or anything like that. That went on to
you know, nightclubbing at fifteen, like I said, with ol
Fonts and then people the doors just open, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Alphonse Gangitana, the Black Prince of leg On Street.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
That's it. That's it. And now the doors of the
nightclub just open. The drinks are lined up, the drugs
are there, whatever you want, you know, bags of diamonds
can come into the Jaiker Jaiker Hotel, you name it.
And there's an other thing, Adam. When I was about
I would have been just after Gary Abdallah was murdered. No,
(09:12):
Gary Abdallah was still alive actually because he ended up
with the gun. I don't know whether this is going
to get me in trouble or not, but I picked
up a policeman's gun outside Ragan's nightclub, in Essendon. I
give that gun to Gary ab Della. Now I'm not
sure what that was used for or what that was
(09:33):
used in afterwards, Like honestly, I would have been maybe
fifteen or sixteen by this stage.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Because Abdellah was part of the Flemington crew of armed robbers,
including Victor Pierce, Graham Jensen and a whole bunch of others,
and they obviously went on to infamy. After Graham Jensen
was killed by police, they went on to kill two
police officers in Wall Street, South Era. That's right, But
you wonder whether that might have been part of that.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, I often wonder where that ended up, like the
gun from h Division. And imagine if that bag of
orange heroin, the highest grade of heroin that's ever been
in Australia, had killed.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
My sisters, because you lost all three.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
In the end, Yes, in the end, one hung herself,
Sissy who married Dennis in prison. Tammy died in a
street in Carlton in a car, and Carrie died eleven
hours after being released from prison. But she did rob
(10:39):
the Chinese mafia, so we're not sure whether she had
a hot shot or.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Not hot shot being someone administered that to her, to
kill her, to murder her.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, footscrade, train station, car park.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And the problem is, back in those days, someone like
your sister, they would be hard pressed to get a
proper investigation.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Oh yeah, it's like they were just they weren't treated
as humans back then, because Heroin added, it's not like
it is today. You know, I could just being tormented
and laughed at. And I had a dream that a
friend's dad died, and silly me went to school and
(11:18):
told her I've never met the man in my life.
And the next day he fell asleep at the wheel
of his truck and died. So I was once again
after being the gang right. Then it went on to
bullying because everyone blamed me for her dad dying. And
then by thirteen, first partner, first black eye.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
The start of unspeakable violence because you went from the
frying pan into the fire because you ended up hooking
up with a man named Peter yep and what was
his background?
Speaker 2 (11:49):
Watch dad beat mum, so thought it was okay to
do it. Buddy's brother was an AFL footballer. So your
choices are what make the difference. As I've learned, as
I'm recovering what I've worked out with perpetrators people with
narcissism disorder. They don't change, you have to. I'm still
(12:12):
to this day being tormented by my last partner to
his daughter, a twenty two year old that he's now
turned the abuse to her. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Yeah, it's an endless cycle.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It is, it is.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yeah, and let's go back to Peter though. Yep, he
you discovered later. There was happy times in the beginning,
I presume, but there was always violence.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah. Yeah. So first black Eye at thirteen, like there,
I had to He was so possessed with me that
I had to ride my pushbike from Princess Hill High
School to Melbourne UNI every lunch time because that's where
mum worked, to sit with her. So I couldn't speak
to anyone, couldn't look at anyone at school, and then
(12:58):
ride back within forty five minutes or something. You know,
all my lunch money went to him black Eyes. Often
going to school with black Eyes, Adam, like the duty
of care being gang raped. I got pregnant and the
school knew and they called me in the office and
(13:18):
nothing has ever been done. I went to school with
black eyes, no duty of care, and I'm chasing you know,
chasing some kind of reimbursement for what I've been through
in school and them knowing what was happening. It was
happening at lunch time, but not on school grounds.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
So you think you might go a financial compensation hopefully. Well,
I think that's quite reasonable. I mean, there is a
duty of care there, and there was even back then
there was a thing called the police. Yes, who could
have been called in. Yeah, I mean I think back
in those days though, I feel like violence against young
women in particular was almost like a social welfare issue
rather than a crime.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes, exactly. In the end, with Peter, to get away
from him, I used to have to have a taxi
waiting outside the school and get a taxi quickly home
to the Carlton flat and run up the stairs. But
then there might be two nights later where he'd be
outside at two in the morning, I'd go downstairs to
him and wake up with two black eyes and no
(14:21):
questions asked.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So how did you finally get away from that relationship?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
When I think about it, it's I'm not sure. I
think I realized that there was more to life and
I wanted to do something with myself, like I was
so desperate at school, I called my woodwork teacher dad, Like,
I was so desperate for love. That's all I ever wanted,
(14:52):
and that's what I chase, But I chased it with
the wrong people. Now I know, as long as I
love myself, that's the main thing. But yeah, Like, how
desperate's that you to be calling you would work teacher dad.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Well, I think it's natural in that circumstance where you're
not getting any.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
He resembled the look of my dad, and I just
I think it was probably one of the first men
that understood what I was going through and took some care.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Because your real dad was far away. Yeah, and he
started his own family in another place. Yes, Yeah, And
you must have thought about him over the years.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
From the minute he left, I thought, if my dad left,
it was my fault. And then it was when I
was about thirty eight forty I realized, no, Dad left
because he loved me. So from forty to fifty four
when you found him, that question lingered in my head
(15:52):
that did he leave because he loved me? Or did
he leave because he.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Didn't love me and he was scared of the consequences.
We'll jump forward to be here. He was scared of
the consequences. And when I did find him and I
called him, and initially he sort of went, no, I
don't have a daughter, And I said, yes you do, mate,
Yes you do, and you should be proud of her.
And I'd like to reintroduce you. And that was the
start of your revival. But you had to go through
(16:16):
so many years of drama. Peter was off the scene.
But then John, the man.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You married yep at nineteen years of age in Pintroridge. Yeah,
there was. He was a small time crook, yeah, rapist, rapist, murderer, pedophile,
not so small.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Time actually no, but certainly not a big criminal name
of the underworld.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
No, don't go and rob a bank in your own car,
do you?
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah? Trap for young players, rob the bank in your
own car? Yeah, Because later on you discovered he wasn't
just abusing you. He was a serial rapist who became
known as the Heidelberg Rapist in Melbourne.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yes he was, and that never stopped at him. But
I wasn't aware he was raping. And the whole time I.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Was with him, how many victims.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Ten including nieces and my mother.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Your own mother that one point twice you're telling me
new things here, Kelly.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
No one ever told me Adam until he tried to kill.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Me because you I'm not going to say it was
a stable family, but you stayed together. There was a union,
that's call it that. But it was full of violence.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
There were children, Yep, my first baby. Unfortunately I lost
a hydro cafless Heather Eve. She would be thirty seven,
nearly thirty eight. Makes me feel a bit old. And then,
like we spoke about in the last podcast, was their
sexual abuse with John, Yes, there was, because I had
four children under four, including twins. Yeah, and I was
(17:59):
just now that I can look back at it, I
was just like a slave, Just like a slave if
I didn't get that dinner on the table looking after
four kids underfore, you fat, lazy bitch, What have you
been doing all day? But I didn't realize that that
was abuse. And there was not a lot of physical
abuse with John, but the mental and the torment and
(18:21):
everything that goes in between.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
And finally you had to get away, not just from
him but from this state.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yes, yes, what happened. Yes, So John and Henry Morhun
killed a man that had robbed Henry's wife for a
gold bracelet. He come home and told me once again,
another murder. I don't do anything with it. It was
a really interesting scary time Adam because he wouldn't take
(18:49):
police protection, so he was still going to court with Henry.
Although he turned.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Dog, he was giving up his brother.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah, we went into witness protection. We
changed name. Hims moved from Frankston to Mornington because he
thought he could look after us. Had to change names
again because Henry apparently found out who we were and
in that witness protection wheel, Oh my god, that was terrifying.
(19:23):
You know, there was you got to go to all
these undisclosed places almost you know, to get a tax
file number, to get on the plane, like to go
to court. We were living up in Queensland and that
system was terrifying. One night we were in a motel
in Bell Street, Preston, and homicide squad detective was with us,
(19:47):
and the people downstairs who run the hotel knew something
was happening but didn't know what it was. I had
the two kids, very pregnant with my twins. They ring
up about twelve o'clock and say, we've just found a
man outside your door. He said, he's d here last
night and he's looking for the toilet. So thank goodness,
(20:09):
a homicide squad detective was armed. And I'm standing in
this motel room with two kids, heavily pregnant. Why they
run out to look for him, and that took about
half an hour. Oh god, I was thinking he's waiting
around for that plan for them to run to come
(20:30):
and get me. And when John did turn witness protection
protected witness, I imagined that I would be murdered by
Henry all the time. Yeah, he was a bad, bad man.
And yeah, him and John did some disgusting things together,
made friends in jail, as you do, and yeah, I
(20:53):
was still learning the lesson.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And that's the funny thing about if you give States evidence,
your name is suppressed forever until after your death. So
it prevented you from telling the story in a full
way and identifying him and also possibly giving other victims
a chance to know, yes, this was the man who
(21:16):
raped you.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yep, exactly. When we went to court against Henry, his
record ended up in the room with the jury, so
he I don't know anyway, he got off it. He
got off it, and we'd moved, we'd changed names, We've
done everything. I got a phone call from the witness
(21:37):
protection place, I can remember it quite significantly, telling me
that he got off. I just sat on that phone
and sobbed for I reckon. It was about an hour
while the copper listened to me, tried to console me. Yeah,
I thought Dan, for sure he's going to come. And
I always thought that he'd get me, cut me up
(21:59):
into little pieces, put me in an envelope, and send
me back to John. But in the end it was
John that almost cut me up.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Let's get to that.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
What happened, Okay, So there wasn't violence, and there was
all the other abuse that I didn't understand. I thought
a black eye was violent still though I'd lived it
for thirty something years, and I thought a black eye
was full of love. There was lots of arguing of things.
We had four children under four. He worked fifteen hours
(22:30):
a day. He was drinking a lot that was trying
to hide from me. One day I found a marijuana
plant growing out in the backyard, and my mum was
up on a holiday and I said, no chance, and
I went out and put it over the back fence
and smashed it. And Mum was absolutely terrified because he
(22:51):
hasn't got home from school, and he walked in and
he went out and found it, and he walked in
and he said, fuck your gout balls. So that must
have been one of his good days. He told people
at work for six weeks where he was working, watch
the news, Watch what I'm going to do. Watch the news,
(23:12):
Watch what I'm going to do. I took an intervention
order out on him three weeks prior because I was
getting threats. He went to my workplace at Westfield Shopping Town,
cut up all my car tires. He went to my
house with my four year old son, cut up with
my work clothes. I was working for Fletcher Jones, so
(23:32):
even though I had the four kids under four, still
wanted to go to work. After we'd separated, he would
hassle me. He'd ring the work, he'd drop the kids off,
you know, earlier than what he should it, so I'd
have to leave work. It was a lot of Now
I no coercive control, and I ended up becoming friends
(23:53):
with a lovely guy. He would have the kids on
the weekend and one of the kids said, Ken's at
mummy's house. And well, from then, the threats in front
of my children. Of what he would wear was a
father's day outfit. I'd bought him prior from the children,
from Fletcher Jones where he would do it, how he
(24:16):
would do it, and when he would do it. And
not only that, he made my four year old son
that had been listening for three weeks what he was
going to do to me, choose the knife to kill
his mother. My son didn't tell me till he was sixteen.
(24:36):
And then you're at work, yep, I'm at work. I've
dropped the twenties off at day Kemm because he had
James and Paris, the older two, for three weeks. I'm
in witness protection three weeks. And the police were too
scared to go and serve an intervention in order on
(24:59):
him to get witness protection, please from down here to
let him know he's going to be so. And then
about ten coppers went there to serve him. But I
had to go to a refuge with the two kids
for three weeks. He wouldn't give James and Paris back,
and they were too scared to go and do anything.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
And that piece of paper made no difference anywhere.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Oh my god, it's like a magic carpet right almost,
you know, you lifted up and then all of a
sudden boom, it's just worthless. That made him a lot worse,
as in, that's when I'm going to kill you, or
I'm going to slice your lips off, so another man,
I'll never look at you. Lots of different threats, and yeah,
(25:43):
the day come what happened. He was wearing what he
told me he'd be wearing, and I could see him
walking towards me. I was working with my boss at
the time. The work knew what was going on because
he was ringing Fletcher Jones, threatening everyone, and he had
James and Paris in the car with him down in
(26:05):
a Westfield shopping town car park. The flatmate was driving,
and he said to the flatmate, as soon as you
hear sirens take off, So he had fears spilt down
in the front of him. I could see him walking
towards me, and I could see that. Then I could
smell it, and I noticed that his shirt was sort
of tucked out from the front of his pants. And
(26:27):
he said to me, you can't lay these charges, And
I said, what charges. It's bloody intervention order to teach
you you can't do what you want. And he was
walking towards a corner and I was following him to
shut him up and not, you know, cause any chaos.
And I've seen him put his hand in his right
(26:47):
pocket and then her pulls out a fileting knife and
starts slashing at me. Basically, I have scars literally from
head to toe on my face. There are four cuts,
maybe through the control. He thought, well, if I can't
kill her, mame person, I want to look at her again.
That's what he always told me. And he did what
(27:11):
he tried to do. There was no security, there was
no help. There was a cleaner with a couple of
disposable nappies I could put on my face and my back,
my bum. I had a white dress on that was red.
They took me to the store next door.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
He actually because then this cowardly piece of whatever, he
turned the knife on himself.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
It didn't work. He can't even do that, right, But
I so went ran to help him. And I could
hear my boss screaming my name in the background, Cali Cally,
So thank goodness you ran to help him. Yeah, yep, desperately,
desperately Why because that's the person I am. Yeah, got
(27:57):
a heart of gold with a diamond in the middle.
I think that's that's the person I am. And there's
no other answer.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
It's true. Yeah, but you survived that. What happened to him?
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Okay? So he went to hospital. He stabbed himself twice
and the third time hit the sternum, so it sort
of saved his life. But when they got him to hospital,
they performed an operation on him that had never been
performed before. So he had a sack of blood growing
around his heart and they had to pierce it and
(28:33):
that saved his life.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
So the next worthless life it was.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yeah, the next week in the career mail in Queensland,
a double page right up of these wonderful doctors, how
they saved this man's life. No explanation of why he
was stabbed, what he'd done, or anything like that. Just
an amazing story about these amazing doctors. And he was
(29:00):
in charge with attempted murder?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
What was he charged with?
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Going equip to harm?
Speaker 1 (29:05):
That's all? Yep? Was that the end of the story
with John and.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You Not really he come back into the kid's life.
When did he die? I think he died about two sixteen, maybe, yeah,
because Yep. That's when I had the courage to start talking.
I changed my life, really because I didn't have to
sit in a restaurant with my back to the wall.
I knew we couldn't come and kill me anymore, which
(29:33):
is I thought would be the end.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
He died of cancer, I believe, Yeah, and karma and karma, Yeah,
they called it right. Wack got his right wack maybe.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Yeah, yeah, probably wasn't slow enough though, But he ended
up remarrying I think Adam, and had no fucking ears.
He cut them off and slushed flushed them down the
toilet because he couldn't see his children because he tried
to kill their mother. But some crazy woman married him
and he had some superannuation and my kids weren't even
(30:04):
in title to that.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I've never had a scent maintenance. Never. Yeah. So I've
been raped by many many, many legal systems, a lot
of systems. But I still fight because I need to
leave a legacy for this children, because I'm talking this
and this children have watched this. Because after John, I
(30:28):
still thought I was a worthless piece of shit and
went to the next pert well, and that was.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
A continuation of the abuse. You suffered, and I don't
want to go too deep in that because this person's
still around and he's still haunting your life in certain ways.
So I don't want this to be the next signal.
And if you're listening to your cowardly piece of whatever,
you grow up. Grow up. But at least that relationship
was a turning point and you started to get some
self worth. You try to find that ability to get
(30:55):
away from all this. And you had another mentor which
I'm loving to throw in here, Shane Keith warn Yes
of Test cricket fame. What did Warnie help you with?
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Well, I've loved Warnie since he was chubby with a mullet,
which he used to hate me, saying, but I'd only
been away from my last partner for three months. I
went to Crown and met him at a club there,
as you do. Sheard a little bit of my story
and he was just fascinated. In five minutes, what are
you talking about? What do you mean twenty three years
(31:30):
domestic violence and your ex husband trying to kill you?
I do not understand. And he sort of took me
under his wing and taught me that I was a
lovable human being who deserved to be loved and a
beautiful person inside and out. And the ripple effect of
that has literally changed my life. And I feel so
(31:55):
privileged to have had that chance. And like I said,
the ripple effect is priceless, and it goes on and
on and on.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Yeah, I can't bowl of flip or a wrong or anything,
but I'm very glad to be in the same company
as Warning, because I think that gave you some self
confidence and ability to go forward. And when you saw
me in the antique store here Gray's on Clarendon's three,
let's give Steve a bunk up here. You said, I've
got a story and I want to tell you, and
I had no choice but to come and tell your story.
(32:26):
And it's continuing because now you become an advocate. I
have tell us all about that.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Okay. So, unfortunately, Adam, I was an alcoholic for fifteen years.
I think I haven't hid that one from you. Maybe
some Saturday nights late text you might have caught it.
But I drank up to six years a night. I
haven't had a drink for over eleven months. Nights of
June is my freedom date. That will be a year.
(32:52):
So as you can imagine that abuse helped me back.
I thought alcohol was the answer. Alcohol was the anxiety.
I went and did a boxing course and wrighting course
called Left Right Wriit Hook. The documentary is now on Netflix.
I'm not in it unfortunately. So what it does is,
(33:13):
I'll just go back a little bit. I spent ten
years in front of a psychiatrist, sometimes twice a week
for about a year. It did a lot, but I
still left with all this trauma in my invisible backpack
or in my guts stuck. So I've done a lot
of work, but I hadn't found me and my strength
(33:34):
and my courage and my passion. So this boxing course
is we go in, we get prompts. So there was
a life changing one for me. That was the second class.
I did the boxing class three rounds, so three eight
weeks times I stood up for myself. Can you imagine
(33:55):
what that looks like for me? Black and blue in
a corner, And then we went in and we punched
logs on the floor instead of the bags. We don't
punch anyone except the bags and the other equipment. And
something something happened. I don't know what it was. It
was like, okay, the trauma's moving, No one's coming to
(34:18):
hit me. I don't need to be scared. And gradually
I found what I needed to get rid of and
who zill had power of me? And yeah, that's what
I did just week by week wrote like my journals
would be a book. I'm going to do it again
in June. Yeah. It just taught me that you can
(34:39):
move the trauma at your body and when you do,
you're unstoppable.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Because there are women listening to this right now and
possibly men as well. Who in You're in a terribly
dark place, terribly dark place, but you managed.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah, And if I can do it, anyone can, you know?
Losing three sisters to heroin not turning to that needle
fascinates me. And like I always like to say, they
don't change. You have to love, shouldn't hurt, and please
(35:12):
please please don't ask us why don't we leave? What
you can say is or the best question should be
is what can I do to help you get out safe?
Because if someone had asked me that twenty years ago,
I would have said, what do you mean safe? He
bashes me because he loves me. I'm very safe.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
I'm very loved because immedia needs to learn this because
I've covered so many of these sorts of stories over
the years. And I did ask that question, why didn't
you leave?
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yep?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And I think I was deaf to the answer yep. Almost.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I was in a forum. We sent a link once
and I taught them that what do you mean why
don't we ask why don't you leave? Where do you
want me to start? Mate? Or where would you like
me to start? You've got to spare three days. I
got a son who was made to choose the knife
to kill try and kill me by his father, and
graduate year six because we had to run to an
(36:07):
emergency house from the next partner. So how oldould have
you been? Twelve? Like? Where do I start paying two
rents for three years? Because you have to keep your
house in the commission and pay your emergency housing rent,
selling your soul to get an intervention order, and then
(36:30):
being still abused and going to court and asking for
it to be extended, and the judge telling me, what
do you mean? Him coming to your door is a problem?
Like if I hadn't have been where I'd been, this
is stuck in my head forever. I would have read
(36:52):
out of that court and been abused for the rest
of my.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Life and possibly murdered.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
You know what amazes me the stat that I think
it's one Australian woman every nine days gets murdered by
the domestic partner. I think it feels like it's.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
More it's one at five at the minute. We have.
We had five and seven days a couple of weeks ago,
last week in Australia.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
What is happening with our young men or men generally.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
I think it's it's almost becoming like a war that's
almost men against women. Like when men are like that,
they think that all women are the same, and like,
I'm living proof. I could be a man hater, you know,
I could want to kill them, and I don't. I
(37:39):
have had five men in my life that have got
me here today, including you, including Shane, including my dad,
including that psychiatrist and then a psychologist that taught me
this isn't the way. So I think it's choices. I
think it's they have to be taught a lot longer.
(38:01):
I get on tram with young teenage boys and I think,
oh my god, we have got so long to go.
The law needs to be changed. One domestic violence. You
get locked up, you know, you get locked up. The
prisons are getting full, but the cemeteries are overflowing with
(38:21):
dead women, the thing that keep this world going. What
the fuck would you do without us? Why keep killing us?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Kelly Carterbell, you are my superhero. You've kept it all together,
You've made yourself a new future. You're still full of love,
and I'm so pleased to be a part of your
journey and to let you tell your truth to other
women and families who are listening. Because it is a
war and we have to win this one. And I
really urge people out there report it, report to get
(38:51):
the police involved. And if you're not getting the right
service over the counter, ask for the sergeant. If the
sergeant doesn't do what it's supposed to, get the senior
sergeant and the inspector, and do not stop. There's somebody
there in your station or in your district who will
do the business for you. And this is the only
way we're going to beat this.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
Yeah, And a lot of laws have to change, Adam,
A lot of laws have to change. The interventre orders
are just I know someone that's broke one hundred times
and they do high fives about it to each other.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Yeah, I think we've got to remand more people, yes,
and make people safe and remember the victims here, rather
than just giving people their rights as they accused. I mean,
let them go to court and prove their innocence then
they can walk. In my opinion, you know, it always
reminds me of my old mate Brian Francis Murphy Copper
in South Melbourne from the fifties through the eighties. He'd
see these men in court after bashing their wives and
(39:42):
they'd all be clean, in a nice suit and so forth,
but it wouldn't melt in their mouth, and he would
see them get off and he'd say that I'm going
to meet you around the corner and give them an
absolute hiding. You know, we can't do that anymore. But
society is just jack of all this and your story
is one of so many, so we want to share
more of this on real crime. So Kelly Carter Bill,
(40:02):
thank you so much once again.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Welcome. I just want to say, Adam, that's just a snippet.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
It is just a snippet. There's a lot more to count.
That was Kelly Cadabell and really it's up to everybody
to address this problem, but you know, make those reports,
seek out the helplines one eight hundred. Respect is who
you should be talking to, and you should also get
(40:27):
onto crime stoppers, call your local police and you can
also share your stories with us. Adam Shanned writer at
gmail dot com. It's been a pleasure talking to you
with the Kelly. This has been a real crime with
Adam Shan Thanks for listening.
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