November 2, 2025 • 43 mins
In 1969, 20-year-old Lucille Butterworth vanished from a bus stop near Hobart, Tasmania. For decades, her disappearance remained one of Australia’s most haunting cold cases. In this episode, Adam Shand speaks with former detective constable Cary Mark Millhouse, who helped reopen the investigation and uncover the truth buried in old police files and forgotten confessions.
Through meticulous detective work, Millhouse and his colleagues linked Lucille’s disappearance to convicted killer Jeffrey Charles Hunt — a man who confessed to the crime multiple times, yet never faced trial. Together, Adam and Cary revisit the evidence, the failures of early police work and the heartbreak of a family still waiting for justice.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host,
Adam Shand. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoy the show,
please subscribe and share it with your friends, even your enemies.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm not picky.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I've got several stories that I've followed for years that
I simply can't let go of. Mysteries that should be solved,
wrongs that should be righted. Often it's about supporting the
efforts of those who seek justice, whether it's loved ones
of murder victims or the police officers who worked tirelessly
to bring closure. The top of my list is the
nineteen sixty nine disappearance and murder of Lucille Gay Butterworth.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Twenty year old Lucille Butterworth vanished from a bus stop
at Claremont near Hobart.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
She was never seen again.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Lucille was last seen around six pm on Monday, the
twenty fifth of August nineteen sixty nine, at a bus
stop on Main Road at Claremont in Hobart, Tasmania. In
twenty sixteen, the coroner determined that Lucille accepted a lift
from the bus stop and was murdered on the Lyle
Highway roughly halfway between Granton and New Norfolk around six
(01:15):
point fifteen pm. Who killed Lucille is not really a
mystery at all.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
The coroner found that, on the balance of probabilities, Lucille
Butterworth was murdered by New Norfolk man Jeffrey Charles Hunt.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Like many victims, Lucille knew her killer. This came to
light during an exhaustive and excellent investigation by three detectives
from Tasmania Police, David Plumpton, Christine Rushden and Carrie Millhouse.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Despite an exhaustive investigation and a coroner's finding, no one
has ever been charged with Lucille Butterworth's murder.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So why hasn't Hunt been charged to put before the court.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's the question for the Tasmanian Director of Public Prosecutions.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Today.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Hunt remains a free man. Time is running out. Lucille's
family are steadily dying off. Only her brother John remains
and I speak to him regularly. He never gives up hope,
But I got to tell you, I'm having my doubts.
Two of the three cops who pursued Hunts so doggedly
from twenty ten have both retired now, but they will
(02:23):
never forget this case. Former Detective Constable Carry Millhouse is
writing a book about the investigation, and he's agreed to
talk about the fight to bring justice for Luciale.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Get a carry good.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Athnue Adam, and thank you very much for your unstinting
work on this case. You're still working on it and
even though you're retired, you should be playing at golf
and enjoying your motor home life style that you've adopted.
And your former colleague David Plumpton gave you high praise
when I called him today and I said, tell me
something about the way that Carrie regards this case. He said,
(02:57):
Carrie believes this matters, and it still matters today. Why
does it matter to you?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Still? Carry?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
See, it's just not justice.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
We know from our exhaustive investigation who's committed this abduction
of murder, and we just can't get it over the line.
I said to you earlier that I believe it's like
a computer trying to load and it's ninety nine percent
and that we were spinning. We just can't get that
one percent to get over the line with it. It's
just so frustrating. We know from what the current has
supported that our offender is Jeffrey Charles Hunt. We presented
(03:29):
an overwhelming case, a circumstantial case to the DPP and
in their wisdom and they justified why, but they weren't
prepared to take it on for a case.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So tell me how did you become involved in this?
Back in twenty ten, I believe.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
David Plumpton was fairly newly appointed as inspected to the
Lucky solb I was already there as a constable a
little while in. I think he had a visit from
the Butterweth brothers, Jim and John to know what was
going on with the investigation, and David obviously knew nothing
about it. He may have been aware of it, but
he got the file up from the Police Academy where
(04:07):
it was gathering dust down there, and thought he'd have
a bit of a look. And what he did find
out was that the case had never been to an inquest.
So a way of resurrecting the inquiry, I suppose, was
to prepare it for inquest, and he asked for volunteers
in the office if anyone was keen, I was, and
I was very keen straight away, only for the reason
(04:28):
that I as a seven year old when she went missing.
I was aware that where Lucill went missing was close
to my home, and I always read the newspaper articles
and I always wanted to myself, I wonder what happened
to Lucille. I wonder if anyone will ever find out
what happened to her. And that was the reason I
was very interested in taking long with David Ask.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It is a real classic true crime case, this one.
The victim is almost an archetype. She was going to
be a beauty queen. She was headed to New Norfolk
that night to attend a function for Miss Tasmania as
a prelude to competing the following year herself.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
She had a boyfriend in New Norfolk, John Fitzger.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
She would regularly visit him up there, and the idea
was she was going to attend this function and then
meet John Fitzgerald afterwards. She never got to meet him,
and the alarm was raised the next day. The initial
investigation was, I guess typical of those years where the
police of the day, and it's hard not to be critical,
(05:27):
had the attitude here's another young girl who's probably gone
off with another guy or gone to the mainland, she'll
come back in a few days, And of course these
days you'd say that vital first forty eight hours, the
opportunities were missed.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Yeah, I don't know whether they certainly did say, oh yeah,
I'm sure come back. I just think it's an answer
when they don't have answers to give the family it's done.
Know whether it's a way of trying to give them reassurance,
but they certainly didn't have answers at the time. We
know for sure that she was at the bus stoping claimant.
We have four people saw her at the bus stopping claimant.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
We had one.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Critical witness that said he saw her, and she had
this prominent blonde hair.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
She was only had died on the friday before.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
She had a beautiful black coat with white fur trim,
and she was a beautiful twenty year old. So we
had a fellow called Anthony Field. He was sitting in
a car opposite waiting for his wife to finish at
the chemist and he noticed her across at the bus stop.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
His wife came out, she got in the car, they.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Drove off and he said, I'm pretty sure she wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
After I drove off, but his critical evidence.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
He saw a Bomby turquoise car pull up next to
her and then soon after she was gone and saves
the car. Now that at the time in ninety sixty
ninems a critical piece of evidence. And I say critical
from what we know now. If they pursued that line
of inquiry to the degree that we do these days,
they may have had more success with it.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And they might have connected that car with Jeffrey Childs Hunt.
There was a clear connection to him, But that was
all to He happened much months later in your investigation.
In the early days, when they finally accept that Lucille
was in fact an abductee and was probably dead, they
fixated on a guy called John Gannon Lonigan, a taxi driver.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
What was his form?
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Well, when I said to you before that the file
was at the academy gathering dust. The file came up
and I had a look, and I took it home
and returned the next morning and said to Inspector Plumpton,
there's only one suspect, John Lonigan, because the file only
contained information relative to him. He's offending his motosot Randy
everything about him. And David said, yes, it looks that way.
(07:44):
But there's more information relative to jeff What he told
me then was in nineteen seventy six, Jeffrey made a
confession to Lucille's murder and disappearance.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Well, that's right, because at that moment he committed another
sex murder Susan Knight, a real estate agent. He lured
her into a meeting and had killed her hastily concealed.
Her body was picked up, and in the course of
the interview with two detectives, he offered up a confession.
(08:19):
Why wasn't that taken seriously back in the day. It
was quite detailed of how he picked her up at
the bus stop, had taken her along there, had got
to the location that was indicated by the coroner, and
she had a cramp in her foot or something. He
pulled over, and he said something came over him. He
tried to kiss as she struggled, He strangled her, killed her,
put her in a fireman's lift, walked into the marshy
(08:40):
swamps on the Dermitt River, and dumped her body. Wow,
a stunning confession which seemed to connect to the facts
of the case. I guess if that early work had
been done back in the day, back in ninety and
sixty nine.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It was an amazing confession. It wasn't just yeah, yeah,
I did that.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
He went into detail with the detectives, detective Oulgarian Barry
Dylon about how we he actually took her because they
had him in custody for Susan Knight, and they thought
we might as well ask him about Lucille because they thought, well,
you know, it's very similar circumstances. So they asked him
and he put his hand up for it. Now, the
officer in charge, Inspector Orb Kenning, he was directly will
(09:23):
keep the police station back in those days, and he said,
I don't want to hear anything of it. I'll go
and have a talk to him soon as he's got
to say. So he went in there and spoke to Hunt.
He came back out of the meeting and said, no,
you blokes got it wrong. He doesn't know anything about that.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Hey. Gary and Dylan looked at each other and thought,
that's not what he told us.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
So Barry Dylan went back in I believe, and the
same confession was admitted by Hunt, and they went and
said or Kening.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
No, no, no, he's good for it. He's put his
hand up for Lucille.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
You know, he's told us all about how he did it,
and or Kenny said, look, I don't hear another thing
of it. He's in custody for Susan Knight. I don't
want that compromise. I don't want to talk about it again.
And that was the end of that. And in those
days I leave it. Today, I mean, its subordination is
quite a serious matter. But in those days you didn't
(10:12):
question soon your obviously who he said, don't pursue it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
They didn't pursue it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And Canning had been convinced that Lonegan was the culprit,
and on the face of it, he was a pretty
good suspect. He was a resident of New Norfolk. He
had a history of documented sex crimes. At least one
of those crimes involved picking up a woman from a
bus stop on the afternoon of twenty fifth August sixty nine.
He'd failed to report for work. He was on his
(10:39):
own between the twenty third and twenty seventh. When his
wife got home, he had burns on his face and arms,
had a new pair of pajamas. There were so many
fishy things. There was also in the back garden remains
of burnt items, including bits of a makeup compact, scissors,
bits and pieces looked very very good. And even the
wife later on said that he'd done some brick work
(11:01):
at home because there'd been a terrible smell, and she
was convinced that Donagan had done it. Even when I
spoke to Lonigan's daughter years later, she was convinced he'd
done it. So I can understand why Canning was so
keen not to get distracted, I guess by Hunt's confession,
but Kraggy's. I would have thought that those two detectives
could have made a bit more noise on the way through,
(11:22):
because the record of interview, the interrogation register recorded that
Hunt could not help with Lucille at all. So he
was really painted out of the story comprehensively by Canning.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Yeah, lookorb Canning, for what I understand, was an ambitious man. Look,
he ended up becoming an assistant Commissioner, which such was
his ambition. So with Donigan, he'd obviously had his finger
on Lonigan for the whole time. And as I said,
all the statements and information pointed to Lonigan. Even I thought,
when I only had information relating to Lonigan, how could you.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Go past this guy.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
But all Canning had put his career on the line
and said that John Lonigan was responsible for Lucio. Butworth
told the administration. And I guess now, if Hunt's admission
had to be taken seriously, he would have looked a
bit silly, I would have thought. So I can't say
conclusively that was the reason behind or can dismissing the admission,
but as a really battling one way, he didn't let
(12:19):
him pursue that more.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It really is.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And you know, that was a classic case of tunnel vision.
Had a good suspect eventually hoping you get that critical
piece of information that will put this bloke behind bars,
but it never came, and it was your job when
you got the file to tear down the hypothesis like
a good detective does. Ewan Plumpton actually found Lot again.
He was living up in Queensland, and I think from
(12:43):
what I read, he was pretty open about saying that
he had not done it. It admitted his past crimes,
so pretty soon I think you were able to discount
possibility he was involved.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Look the fact that he was never charged or they
never got as far as actually having evidence on him
so that would suggests that maybe he wasn't responsible.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
There's a lot of anomalies.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Even his own wife and daughter suspected that he was
capable of something like that. He certainly was because he
did time in jail for sexual offenses, so he's certainly
capable of it. But because of that water's been muddied,
they failed to look at more obvious things. Now as
we know, this was seven years before Hunt did murder
(13:27):
Susan Knight. But there was the fact that they had
Anthony Field say he saw a turquoise holding right next
to the female. If they had pursued that better. It
wasn't until about twenty thirteen where I had conversations with
Hunt's family. Believe it or not, they'd never been spoken
to at any stage up until I spoke to them
(13:48):
some forty odd years later. Keen Hunt started telling me
about a car that the family had. It was a
turquoise car. Whether he said it was greeny blue, he
said turquoise. It was a light bulb moment familiar. I thought,
he what the family had a turquoise Bomby car.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Oh my good.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
You know why forty odd years later had this information
come out? If you murder investigation today is you turn
it over every stone, you know, you look everywhere. But
back in nineteen sixty nine to in the years to follow,
that in his degree wasn't taken and they really missed.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Something they did.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And I think the other critical piece about that car
was that it had damage to one of the doors
that had been replaced with a different color. And your
witness Field had also seen that apparently.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well he reported damage to.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
It's quite a good detailed observation's Anthony Field.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He come from England only seven years before.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
So his knowledge of Australian beings may not have been
as good as it could have been. So he described
it as a bomby car, and then police took a
statement from him and he described it as an FJ.
We don't know whether he was led by police to
say it was an FJ or otherwise, but he said
it had damage to just in front of the driver's door.
(15:08):
And when David and inspect to plumped and I interviewed Hunt,
we put that damage to him about the turquoise holding,
and we were gobs made for him to actually say, no,
my car had damage on the passenger side just in
front of the door. I thought, why is he even
volunteer that information. He's trying to explain something he didn't
(15:29):
need to explain. We don't have the car to say
that the damage was on the right hand side or
the left hand side. But he just tried to explain
it away. And I thought that was more remarkable.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
To It was because by the time you got to
interview Hunt, you'd already done an exhaustive investigation. Really exemptary.
By the way I've got I hand it to you.
I've seen some pretty poor ones. This is a really
good one, And forty years after the fact, you're finding
witnesses that should have been interviewed in the first few days.
You start to piece together the background of Jeffrey Charles Hunt.
(15:58):
It was troubled. He was from a big family there
in New Norfolk. He and his brother were albinos. They'd
been shunned by their fellows up there. He'd had trouble
adjusting to society. He was also accused of an attempted
sexual assault by one of the girls in his cohort
there in New Norfolk. He knew, this is what you established.
(16:20):
He knew John Fitzgerald, Lucile's boyfriend. He'd even worked at
Clyde Fitzgerald's shop in New Norfolk. So you quickly established
a connection between the victim and your suspect, to the
point where you had a testimony from John Fitzgerald who
said Lucille saw Hunt looking at her over the fence
(16:40):
when she was sun baking, and she, quite in a
derogatory tone, said, Whitey is looking at me. So you
set up this marginalized person who's an attractive female and
you start to see a motive emerging here as you
went down that path and you're discovering Hunt's background.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Where did it take you?
Speaker 5 (17:01):
You mentioned earlier that a sexual offense at the time,
and let's say it was alleged, because he was never
convicted of anything.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
He did front Corp.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
But it was dismissed and the victim and that case
was an eleven year old. This event took place in
a railway station just near his place. The victim's memories
are vague, which he does remember certain aspects of it.
He was charged with that offense and it went to
court in New Norfolk. And I believe and we could
never find the file. The file has been destroyed, but
(17:32):
we believe he was dismissed on the grounds of identification.
And I don't know what aspect of identification there was
a problem.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
With, but you're right he was ostracized. Him and his whole.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Family were albina apart from one sibling, so they all
suffered different points of bullying and finger pointing, and I
believe that made it very hard for them to interact.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
They didn't have many friends.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Jeffrey in particular, he struggled with the violence in his
own home. His father was very violent towards his mother,
and he felt very deeply for his mother. We don't
know how mixed up he became as a result of
his upbringing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And you even found out that his father, Bill, who
was a veteran, as you say, he was a bit
of a drunk and he abused his wife and the
kids were exposed to that, and there seemed to be
some sort of relationship between Bill and the local constabatory,
where I think you ran the theory that young Jeffrey
had been protected from some consequences early on, which might
have been telling in the final outcome.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
There was certainly a lot easier to cover your backside
in those days and look after people if you wanted to,
and I believe that, Yeah, Bill Hunt, he had a
really good relationship with the local sergeant. He had been
a sergeant in Norfolk for almost a decad, I believe,
so they formed a very strong bond. They drink at
the RSL together. And there was one witness that attended
(18:55):
the Norfolk station reporter case of his clothes been taken
from the clothesline, snowdropping we call it. And always in
a conversation this witness, he spoke to the sergeant a sergeant.
Doesn't know which one he said, but the sergeant said
to him, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know who's taken lou Sille,
and then he didn't discuss it any further.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
We believe that that sergeant knew.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
The circumstances surrounding it, but when we spoke to him,
he'd suffered quite a few strokes and his reliability. We
couldn't really tell whether he was giving us a bit
of a run around, or whether he was genuinely forgetful
or otherwise. But we just think a lot of people knew,
including two Jeffrey's siblings. We can only suggest we think
(19:41):
they knew. We can't say conclusively, but I think two
of the brothers were kept in the dark pretty much
by the family, and they ended up being our fantastic
witnesses to give us an insight into the family life
growing up and also the vehicle that the family had
for many years. Jeffrey maintained two police in some of
those interviews and statements that he didn't know Lucille, he
(20:04):
didn't drive a he didn't have a license. He maintained
all that he was getting away with it because it
can be disproved. But when we interviewed him, we were
able to disprove all those things. It was quite pleasing
to see him starting to pedal backwards on some of
his statements because we were able to prove he had
a driver's license at the time of taking Lucille. We
prove he drove to work, and we proved what car
(20:26):
that he drove in, which is a Bomby Turk boys
holding one way in and out of Hobart in those days,
and you know, in fact, was one road through Clamont.
You couldn't go alternate roads.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
No other way.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
We know that he drove past that way on that
night because he dropped a colleague off from work at
his home in Milwaukee. And drove past Lucille, So we
know he was driving, we know what time he was
driving past, and we know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That he knew Lucille.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
And it was quite satisfying for us to actually disprove
all those points. And David Plumpton in fact said in
one of your previous podcasts, we said, we can prove
that Jeffrey Hunter liar. We just can't prove that he's
a murderer.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Except that it came out of his mouth with the
police and then in jail not once, not twice, not three.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
But four times.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I believe four confessions with ringingly similar content and detail.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
During the inquest, and we presented the case. Now at
the file we presented to the inquest with thirty blinders,
it was extensive, included clear voyance because they were quite
popular back in the day, and actually included so much information.
But during the inquest, a seven week in quest, we
had three former convicts or prisoners if you like, came
(21:42):
forward that had spent time in prison with Hunt. Now
that all spent time with him at different points of
his centers. Now, jeffing Up was in JAF for twenty
four years, so those three prisoners didn't know each other.
They didn't know each other had come forward, but they'd
all come forward with various piece of information. Now one said,
(22:03):
when I was in prison with Hunt, went up to
him and I said, hi, mate, what are you in for?
And Hunt said, I'm in for murder. But they haven't
got me on.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The other one yet, they haven't found the body.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
The next prisoner had a similar conversation with him and
Hunt spraguing about having killed Dual Butterworth completely unsolicited. Witnesses
come forward and Dual Butterworth, and that in itself is
fairly reliable because he knew very well the inquest was
for Lucille Butterworth. But he quoted Hunt the way hand
(22:37):
said it Dual Butterworth.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Another prisoner his information was.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
The conversation went along the lines of if you ever
want to pick up a girl, the best way is
should rive past the bus stop if they're looking a
little bit lost, or they're looking like they need to write.
He said that's the best way to pick up a girl.
That's quite profound as well. So that's all circumstantial evidence
on top of everything else we had. So we put
(23:05):
the matter to the DPP and to review, and we
thought we had an overwhelming case of circumstantial.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Events, and the coroner agreed and he came to the
view that Jeffrey Charles Hunt was the corpet. It's not
his role to apportion guilt or innocence, but certainly to
play out the facts that can then be taken up
by the Director of Public Prosecutions. I reading all the eddents,
I thought this blokes a walk up start to be charged.
You'd a fantastic interview with him where all the inconsistencies
(23:33):
were highlighted. You'd done the work and you tied him
to a story and his own lies in there where
he said he didn't drive the car, didn't have a license,
he always caught the bus to motors there his workplace
in Hobart. He couldn't have picked up Lucir because he
didn't have a license or a car. And this was
all false because you knew that he'd driven the whole
family to a wedding in Lonceston prior to this. So
(23:55):
you were able to put all this stunning evidence to him,
and what was his response. He started to get very
angry and pounding the table and other sort of stuff,
And it was a classic case of good cop and
bad copy. He had plumb than there who was sort
of jollying Hunter Long where you were delivering the killer blows,
as it were, from all the evidence that you'd created.
And I thought the ennybody was going to confess, but
he didn't. Yeah, he'd lost his He had a chance
(24:16):
to confess for real and didn't take it.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
It was a bit like a volleyball game. You sort
of set the ball up for the slam. You know,
I don't have a license. I never had a license. Okay, Jeffrey,
when did you get your licensees? So I was nineteen
blah blah blah, And I already knew at this point
that I had some information from a former police officer
that left the job Christmas time ninety sixty eight or
January by ninety sixty nine. And in those days, police
(24:40):
officers took people for their driver's license, and he actually
took Jeffrey for his driver's license. He can't remember the
day or date, but that particular police officer lost his
job with Tasmania Police at the Christmas in ninety sixty eight,
and he had already awarded Jeffrey license.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
So that proved and I put that to Jeffrey and oh,
I can't be sure.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
I can't be sure of the time, but for forty
years he's been made. I never had a license at
that time, so you know, it was those sort of
things where he's backtracking. And you know the same with
the car. I never drove that car, but his dad
literally never drove. He did not drive the car. The
only person to drive the car was Jeffrey, and he
bought that car so the whole family could take a
trip to Long System to a family wedding, and Jeffrey
(25:25):
drove that particular time. So yeah, all those all those
pieces of evidence were fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, what was brilliant in this interview was that Plumpton
was allowing him to extemporize on all this detail to
show his incredible recall of seeming the unimportant minutie of
his life, so obviously demonstrating his memory, and then you
would come in with specific points about Lucille. Suddenly he
would develop amnesia all life.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Yeah, and that was frustrating too, because you've got nowhere
to go, you know very well that we've got him
in a corner. He just needed him to say, yeah,
I did it. You know, that was particularly frustrating. My
dad was a prison officer for thirty five years. He
knew Hunt, he spent time with Hunt. He just said
that he's count as the shit house rat. He's very shrewd.
(26:18):
And I had a chat with Hunt outside the station
now just before we drove him home after the interview,
and I was just chatting with him about It's funny
he knew my dad too. Here he put the Millhouse
name to it, and he just started talking about it.
And he started talking to him on a casual basis
about nothing that's going to give him issues like his
(26:38):
dad and my dad and everything.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And oh wow, what a memory. He's just so fluent,
cunning as the word.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And so those confessions came at a time when he
felt very secure. He was in a minimum security prison,
I think it was a prison farm, and they gave
him some dogs and he had some sheep, and he
felt like he had a bit of position and comfort
in life. And he was then seeking friends which he'd
never had before in his life. So, and you don't
have that option anymore in Tasmania for a minimum security
I wonder if he could have been offered to him
that he could have served out his jail term in
(27:08):
such an environment that he might have offered a confession up.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, he may very well have done.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
But in those early days after he made that confession
and all Canning shutting down, he had uncle Max Moult,
who's also he was a detective.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I believe that.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
A few people who got around him family included you
keep your mouth shut. I don't ever talk of it again.
If you ever asked, don't speak of it again. So
the small window with the confession was made that all
Canning shut down was lost. But this investigation was completely thorough.
There were people that we had spoken to the meeting
that Lucy went to in an all folk, no one
(27:46):
ever spoke to anyone at that meeting because, as you know,
John Fitzgerald was attending that meeting, and in any murder case,
you perhaps look at the de facto or the husband
or the wife or the person in the relationship. And
no one spoke to anyone at that meeting to determine
John Fitzgerald's demeanor, you.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Know he was or otherwise.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It just seems so incomplete, Yeah, very incomplete. And I
guess we could have thought that Jeffrey Charles Hunt was
out of sight out of mind. He was serving a
life sentence without the prospect of parole back in those
days when you had those sort of sentences, and then
there was a change.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
He was given a minimum sentence and he.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Gets out and pretty soon we start to hear stories
about him hanging around caravan parks where there were women
and possibly going back to his old tricks. This bloke
is a recalcitrant sex offender who should never have been released.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
In my opinion, yeah, absolutely, I can agree with that,
and I can't clarify his behavior after that time, but
I know that prior to murdering Susan Knight in nineteen
seventy six, he become very tempted in a lot of ways.
There was people that he was pursuing prior to the murder,
(29:02):
in the months prior, trying to set them up in
the end the way that Susan Knight was taken down unfortunately.
For example, Jeffrey Hunt, he responded to a notice in
the local newspaper a nineteen year old girl had offered
her services as a babysitter, so it was advertised in
the miscellaneous part of the newspaper and said Hunt was
(29:25):
replied to it ringing her and said I've got two
children the agents of this and that can we meet
to discuss it? So on the Monday morning that was
the arranged time he rocked up at her house. He
must have been sitting off it because once her husband
left for work, he knocked on the door some hour early.
(29:47):
She was still dressed in her NightWare. It turned out
to be a neglige. She told us an interview was
the one she worn on a honeymoon, so she was
quite attractive to Hunt, so she felt uncomfortable she invited
him in anyway. That started to discuss the circumstances around
his children being babysat without notice. He then lunged at
(30:07):
her on the couch. He grabbed her and graped her,
and she screamed. And she was on the lower level
of a townhouse, and the people upstairs can be heard
running across the floor, obviously to see what the screams were,
at which point Hunt then fled the apartment and left. Now,
this particular witness gave a statement to police and described
(30:27):
who he was. He wasn't identified until he was in
custody for the murder and on TV, and then she
went to police and said that man that's on TV
for that particular matter, he was the man that attacked me.
The police officers at the time said, well, look, he's
in custody now for a serious matter and he's unlikely
(30:48):
beginning out of jail, and they never pursued her sexual
assault case, and that lady today still grieves over that
lack of justice.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Absolutely, I mean this guy seriously, he's better off in jail.
He finally gets parole and has plans to leave Tasmania
to get a caravan and drive around Australia. My goodness,
what an opportunity for a sex offender without regret, to
take up his old profession once more. And luckily that
(31:18):
was stopped and the parole his conditions were changed, so
he has to remain within Tasmania. So he finds himself
put in a let's say, a northern Tasmanian town. I'm
not going to reveal the town because there's enough people
hastling him already. I've got no sympathy for him, but
he is in a kind of purgatory where he's better
off in jail.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
And in fact, I went to the.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Location where he is a few years ago and I
was told that it'll all be dark. He doesn't come out.
He only comes out to go and see his parole
officer in Devonport. The only way you'll know he's in
there is the heating pipe will be on, it'll be warm.
So sure enough it was warm, and he was in there.
And I spent most of the night in an awful
Tasmanian weather was pouring and shocking. And the next time
(31:58):
I missed him and he's gone off to his appointment
in Devonport. And I happened to catch him on the
way out, and I decided not to confront him him
but to follow him to see what he did. And
he had to walk I think about a four hundred
meter journey back to the place where he's getting his
community bust to his residence. But he did this two
and a half three kilometer secuitous route which was clearly
about Canas surveillance that he knew people were following him.
(32:20):
So I thought, this, what sort of life is this
bloke got? He's living on his own. Family, I don't
think talks to him very much, and there he is.
I meanwhile, this whole case is just I was reflecting
this afternoon carry actually that what happens to these cases
where all the witnesses die off. A lot of people
you spoke to fifteen years ago are probably dead now
(32:42):
or their memories have failed. Could they even go before
a court. Lucille's parents are dead. Her brother Jimmy, who
had driven the investigation for years as also did him,
went up there to Hunt's town and I thought was
going to murder him, and you're offside of Plumpton had
to virtually cut him off at the past, so he
didn't do that. Jimmy's gone, John Fitzgerald, the boyfriend's gone.
(33:03):
There's only one brother left, John butter Worth. And it
was so sad a few years ago when in anger
and frustration he goes down there to the spot where
you believe Blue Seal was dumped for one of a
better word, with a shovel and was digging himself, had
his scuba gear out, was diving in the river himself,
hoping against hope that something would be just. So something
was being done. Of course, the way the Dermot works,
(33:25):
if Hunt had put her body in the river would
have been taken by the current, probably the same day,
fast flowing river.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Look, the reason we looked at that particular spot, because
when he confessed in nineteen seventy six, he actually identify
where he had dubb Bluse Hill, and he was specific
in the fact that he said, as you said earlier,
he tried to kiss her, she resisted. He then, I
don't know what overcame me and strangled, strangled it to death.
And then in his admissions, he said he took her
(33:56):
in a fireman's carry out of the vehicle to walk
towards the river through the shrubs and dumped her. Then
he said got back to the car, one of the
shoes still there and her handbag, so he also took
them out as well, So his emission was very specific.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Now, we for.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
One month dug an area around that particular point. We
had nineteen sixty nine satellite aera photography from that particular site,
so we can see what it looked like in ninetly
sixty nine and we can see what it looked like today.
It was very similar in appearance. But where police dug
recently was in an area that was obviously an open
(34:33):
space where Hunt said he took her out towards the river. Now,
I'd say the river from his car would be one
hundred and fifty meters. We don't know how far he
walked out, but that area where he walked out was
never looked at because of swamp land. At the time
of our our digging excavation. It was a king tie,
(34:54):
would you believe, So right up to where his car
would have been, we had tider water, so it was
impossible to actually dig anywhere outside there area that we had,
and the area that we had was simply not the
place because it was just a car park basically.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Now, that area back in sixty.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Nine was used by main roads when they were building
the highway to double the gravel their excavators and everything,
so that's why that was there. So that was a
site that people use to go parking with their other
and smooch and etc. And we believe from what we
can see from the era of photography that there was
a bit of an alcove where he could actually drive
(35:35):
in there not be seen from the main road and
the rest history. We certainly believe that's the spot where
it would have been.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And this was at corroborated by one of the convict witnesses,
if you like. Philip Paris said much the same sort
of thing. So it's quite mystifying what happens now, because
it must have been so disappointing to you when the
coroner was so emphatic about the excellent investigation, the mountains
of circumstantial evidence, but the DPP declined to put him
(36:04):
before the court.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Unfortunately, the matters before a coroner not admissible in a
Supreme court, So anything that was said in there is
not admissible and couldn't be used. But what happened in
the inquest for one day, Hump was afforded one day's defense.
In that one day's defense, they had a lawyer come in,
a good criminal lawyer come in and start crossing examining
(36:26):
some of our witnesses. And the way he tore down
one of those ex prisoners and Jeffrey's brother King, it
was really harsh. Everyone's seen it on TV, the way
they defense lawyers work. He tore them up pretty much
about the unreliability of their memories and it was really
hard to watch. So I imagine if we did ever get
(36:47):
the matter to a court based on circumstantial evidence, it
would be very, very hard to convict, and I think
that's probably how the DPP saw it. With as you said, Adam,
the witnesses all dying out, and we've lost a lot
more since the two thousand and sixth An inquest as well.
But the unreliability of memory defense would tear that apart.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It'd be hard to watch well.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
But you've got to put your faith in juries to
occasionally get this right, because you had the stunning precedent
really where you had the murder of alleged murder of
Bob Chappell by his partner Syni Or Fraser in two
thousand and nine, where there was no body again, a
lot of circumstantial evidence, a lot of post offense conduct
(37:29):
issues like lies, and they were able to convict syon
Neil Fraser.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
And I think there was less evidence in that case.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
And I wonder whether this is a bit of judicial conservatism.
The previous DPP tim Ellis had been fairly i'd say
adventurous by bringing that case to Cord he had success.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Do you think you're a victim of that?
Speaker 5 (37:48):
Well, I can speculate in that direction, and I actually
have said that looking at the circumstantial events related to
Sir Neil Fraser, I believe that the Hunt and Butterworth
case we had so much more circumstantial evidence, but couldn't
get over the line. And I actually saw the coroner
just in a casual conversation. I said, oh, they're not
(38:10):
running with it, and the jaw dropped and they're not
like that. I mean, he had to stay reasonably professional,
but I could see his surprise after knowing what we know.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Mmm, so do you feel like this is unfinished business
for you?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Carry?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
I always hope that I'm going to get a phone
call one day to say, look, Hunt wants to speak
to you. We know he's done it. We absolutely know.
And the two of the brothers have said he's done this.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
You know they know. People close to this know.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
We all know John Boworth. He's not been able to
move forward with his life ever because you know, he
promises mum. You know, we'll never give up on this, Mum.
We'll find Lucille for you. We'll never give up. And
I saw John only this month and I said to him, look,
be satisfied. You've you've honored your comment to your mum.
I said, we know what happened to steal, we know
(39:05):
where she is. Forgive yourself, John, if you've done what
you can. We're not going to give up until a
space until Hunt dies and then Neill take that, you
take that with him. But yeah, it's a murderer who's
got away with it.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Really.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Hunt was born in nineteen fifty, makes him seventy five.
Now he's not getting any younger. All the witnesses are dying.
You wonder what happens to this case. So what happens
when he dies? Do you think the police just stop?
Is that what happens in these cases when there's no
longer anybody to lock up.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
The potential for prosecution is pretty much done, so it
can only be convicted in the public call of opinion
as they call it. I think it's so frustrating because
the whole Naufai community they all know, everyone knows, but
we just can't get the man convicted of Lucille's death.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
It's up to him, really, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Listen, Carry you've done your best, along with Plumping and
Christine Rush and a fantastic team.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
You can be proud of yourselves what you did.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
And really, for police officers, it's not about the result,
it's about the process. Doing everything you can to honor
your promises to family and loved ones that everything shall
be done. No stones should be left unturned. And I
think this was an exemporary investigation of which you can
be dutifully proud, because this was one of those things
where you didn't really get a lot of support for
the whole investigation.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
You did it off the side of.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Your desk, almost a part time investigation amongst everything else
that you were dealing with at.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
The dass of CIB.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
That's right, as I said, inspect to plump and ask
for anyone to volunteer to put the matter to an inquest.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
So I'll put my hand up.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
So along with other duties, I started investigating Lucille, and
to the point where I was sometimes afforded two or
three weeks specifically for Lucille, but then I had to
go back to my volume of crime carburgs and homeburgs,
et cetera. So it really was just how we managed
to afford it. And you mentioned Christine Russia and when
I managed to gather so much information that had becoming
(40:59):
overwhelming because if I speak to one person that at
least to five more, those five lead to another five
and then you've got more questions than answers. So Christine
come on board as an analyst and started documenting everything
and did analytical reports which were absolutely top class. And
that's how we rolled and David plumped and oversaw the
(41:19):
whole matter. So it wasn't a case of let's get
this cold case team on it. We did it on
the side of our desk, as we say, And after
David came forward and asked volunteers, took five more years
to get that do inquest.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
So that's how long it took.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, well done, But I really appreciate that on behalf
of the Blue Seal and her family, So thanks very much,
thank you. That was Curry Milhouse, retired Tasmanian detective on
the ongoing mystery into the fate of Blue Seal.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
But it worth not really a mystery at all.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
This is normally the moment where I say, anybody with
evidence should come forward, call crime Stoppers one OU hundred,
triple three, triple zero.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
But there is no mystery here. We know who did it.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
It's now up to Jeffrey Charles Hunt to search his
soul and see if he can come forward to resolve this.
If he has any belief in God or the afterlife,
this is his moment to clear his conscience. I'm not
sure that he will. He's deep in denial, deep in
self justification. That's often what happens in these cases. But
it is a terrible shame, and I do feel a
(42:21):
little bit of despair for the family and that they
put so much into this investigation, so much hope in
the police would do the right thing, and they did,
only to be disappointed by the Director of Public Prosecutions.
I understand the limitations with which they work, but still
this was a very good case and Lucille her memory, unfortunately,
(42:41):
may be lost, replaced by new cold cases, by new
tragedies that are failed to be investigated. We sometimes we
don't learn the lessons. You see this in so many
areas of the criminal law. The same mistakes keep getting
made over and over again. Now with excuses of lack
of resources, lack of staff. Things get done once over lightly.
(43:02):
But the dead only deserve the truth. And this is
what Carrie and his mates in Tasmania Police did for Lucille.
Unfortunately it wasn't enough anyway, No much more we can
do with at the moment. But if someone does have
some information, please come forward, anything at all. Maybe he's
told somebody else, Maybe there's one more piece of evidence
that can be the final piece that says to Jeffrey
(43:24):
charles On, it's time to confess. Thanks once again for listening.
If you like the podcast, please subscribe, share it with
your friends. This has been real crime with Adam shanned.
Thank you for listening.
Appoche Production.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm your host,
Adam Shand. Thanks for tuning in. If you enjoy the show,
please subscribe and share it with your friends, even your enemies.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
I'm not picky.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I've got several stories that I've followed for years that
I simply can't let go of. Mysteries that should be solved,
wrongs that should be righted. Often it's about supporting the
efforts of those who seek justice, whether it's loved ones
of murder victims or the police officers who worked tirelessly
to bring closure. The top of my list is the
nineteen sixty nine disappearance and murder of Lucille Gay Butterworth.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Twenty year old Lucille Butterworth vanished from a bus stop
at Claremont near Hobart.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
She was never seen again.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Lucille was last seen around six pm on Monday, the
twenty fifth of August nineteen sixty nine, at a bus
stop on Main Road at Claremont in Hobart, Tasmania. In
twenty sixteen, the coroner determined that Lucille accepted a lift
from the bus stop and was murdered on the Lyle
Highway roughly halfway between Granton and New Norfolk around six
(01:15):
point fifteen pm. Who killed Lucille is not really a
mystery at all.
Speaker 4 (01:22):
The coroner found that, on the balance of probabilities, Lucille
Butterworth was murdered by New Norfolk man Jeffrey Charles Hunt.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Like many victims, Lucille knew her killer. This came to
light during an exhaustive and excellent investigation by three detectives
from Tasmania Police, David Plumpton, Christine Rushden and Carrie Millhouse.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Despite an exhaustive investigation and a coroner's finding, no one
has ever been charged with Lucille Butterworth's murder.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
So why hasn't Hunt been charged to put before the court.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's the question for the Tasmanian Director of Public Prosecutions.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
Today.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Hunt remains a free man. Time is running out. Lucille's
family are steadily dying off. Only her brother John remains
and I speak to him regularly. He never gives up hope,
But I got to tell you, I'm having my doubts.
Two of the three cops who pursued Hunts so doggedly
from twenty ten have both retired now, but they will
(02:23):
never forget this case. Former Detective Constable Carry Millhouse is
writing a book about the investigation, and he's agreed to
talk about the fight to bring justice for Luciale.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Get a carry good.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Athnue Adam, and thank you very much for your unstinting
work on this case. You're still working on it and
even though you're retired, you should be playing at golf
and enjoying your motor home life style that you've adopted.
And your former colleague David Plumpton gave you high praise
when I called him today and I said, tell me
something about the way that Carrie regards this case. He said,
(02:57):
Carrie believes this matters, and it still matters today. Why
does it matter to you?
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Still? Carry?
Speaker 1 (03:04):
See, it's just not justice.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
We know from our exhaustive investigation who's committed this abduction
of murder, and we just can't get it over the line.
I said to you earlier that I believe it's like
a computer trying to load and it's ninety nine percent
and that we were spinning. We just can't get that
one percent to get over the line with it. It's
just so frustrating. We know from what the current has
supported that our offender is Jeffrey Charles Hunt. We presented
(03:29):
an overwhelming case, a circumstantial case to the DPP and
in their wisdom and they justified why, but they weren't
prepared to take it on for a case.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
So tell me how did you become involved in this?
Back in twenty ten, I believe.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
David Plumpton was fairly newly appointed as inspected to the
Lucky solb I was already there as a constable a
little while in. I think he had a visit from
the Butterweth brothers, Jim and John to know what was
going on with the investigation, and David obviously knew nothing
about it. He may have been aware of it, but
he got the file up from the Police Academy where
(04:07):
it was gathering dust down there, and thought he'd have
a bit of a look. And what he did find
out was that the case had never been to an inquest.
So a way of resurrecting the inquiry, I suppose, was
to prepare it for inquest, and he asked for volunteers
in the office if anyone was keen, I was, and
I was very keen straight away, only for the reason
(04:28):
that I as a seven year old when she went missing.
I was aware that where Lucill went missing was close
to my home, and I always read the newspaper articles
and I always wanted to myself, I wonder what happened
to Lucille. I wonder if anyone will ever find out
what happened to her. And that was the reason I
was very interested in taking long with David Ask.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
It is a real classic true crime case, this one.
The victim is almost an archetype. She was going to
be a beauty queen. She was headed to New Norfolk
that night to attend a function for Miss Tasmania as
a prelude to competing the following year herself.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
She had a boyfriend in New Norfolk, John Fitzger.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
She would regularly visit him up there, and the idea
was she was going to attend this function and then
meet John Fitzgerald afterwards. She never got to meet him,
and the alarm was raised the next day. The initial
investigation was, I guess typical of those years where the
police of the day, and it's hard not to be critical,
(05:27):
had the attitude here's another young girl who's probably gone
off with another guy or gone to the mainland, she'll
come back in a few days, And of course these
days you'd say that vital first forty eight hours, the
opportunities were missed.
Speaker 5 (05:42):
Yeah, I don't know whether they certainly did say, oh yeah,
I'm sure come back. I just think it's an answer
when they don't have answers to give the family it's done.
Know whether it's a way of trying to give them reassurance,
but they certainly didn't have answers at the time. We
know for sure that she was at the bus stoping claimant.
We have four people saw her at the bus stopping claimant.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
We had one.
Speaker 5 (06:04):
Critical witness that said he saw her, and she had
this prominent blonde hair.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
She was only had died on the friday before.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
She had a beautiful black coat with white fur trim,
and she was a beautiful twenty year old. So we
had a fellow called Anthony Field. He was sitting in
a car opposite waiting for his wife to finish at
the chemist and he noticed her across at the bus stop.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
His wife came out, she got in the car, they.
Speaker 5 (06:29):
Drove off and he said, I'm pretty sure she wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
After I drove off, but his critical evidence.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
He saw a Bomby turquoise car pull up next to
her and then soon after she was gone and saves
the car. Now that at the time in ninety sixty
ninems a critical piece of evidence. And I say critical
from what we know now. If they pursued that line
of inquiry to the degree that we do these days,
they may have had more success with it.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And they might have connected that car with Jeffrey Childs Hunt.
There was a clear connection to him, But that was
all to He happened much months later in your investigation.
In the early days, when they finally accept that Lucille
was in fact an abductee and was probably dead, they
fixated on a guy called John Gannon Lonigan, a taxi driver.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
What was his form?
Speaker 5 (07:20):
Well, when I said to you before that the file
was at the academy gathering dust. The file came up
and I had a look, and I took it home
and returned the next morning and said to Inspector Plumpton,
there's only one suspect, John Lonigan, because the file only
contained information relative to him. He's offending his motosot Randy
everything about him. And David said, yes, it looks that way.
(07:44):
But there's more information relative to jeff What he told
me then was in nineteen seventy six, Jeffrey made a
confession to Lucille's murder and disappearance.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Well, that's right, because at that moment he committed another
sex murder Susan Knight, a real estate agent. He lured
her into a meeting and had killed her hastily concealed.
Her body was picked up, and in the course of
the interview with two detectives, he offered up a confession.
(08:19):
Why wasn't that taken seriously back in the day. It
was quite detailed of how he picked her up at
the bus stop, had taken her along there, had got
to the location that was indicated by the coroner, and
she had a cramp in her foot or something. He
pulled over, and he said something came over him. He
tried to kiss as she struggled, He strangled her, killed her,
put her in a fireman's lift, walked into the marshy
(08:40):
swamps on the Dermitt River, and dumped her body. Wow,
a stunning confession which seemed to connect to the facts
of the case. I guess if that early work had
been done back in the day, back in ninety and
sixty nine.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It was an amazing confession. It wasn't just yeah, yeah,
I did that.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
He went into detail with the detectives, detective Oulgarian Barry
Dylon about how we he actually took her because they
had him in custody for Susan Knight, and they thought
we might as well ask him about Lucille because they thought, well,
you know, it's very similar circumstances. So they asked him
and he put his hand up for it. Now, the
officer in charge, Inspector Orb Kenning, he was directly will
(09:23):
keep the police station back in those days, and he said,
I don't want to hear anything of it. I'll go
and have a talk to him soon as he's got
to say. So he went in there and spoke to Hunt.
He came back out of the meeting and said, no,
you blokes got it wrong. He doesn't know anything about that.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Hey. Gary and Dylan looked at each other and thought,
that's not what he told us.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
So Barry Dylan went back in I believe, and the
same confession was admitted by Hunt, and they went and
said or Kening.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
No, no, no, he's good for it. He's put his
hand up for Lucille.
Speaker 5 (09:51):
You know, he's told us all about how he did it,
and or Kenny said, look, I don't hear another thing
of it. He's in custody for Susan Knight. I don't
want that compromise. I don't want to talk about it again.
And that was the end of that. And in those
days I leave it. Today, I mean, its subordination is
quite a serious matter. But in those days you didn't
(10:12):
question soon your obviously who he said, don't pursue it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
They didn't pursue it.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And Canning had been convinced that Lonegan was the culprit,
and on the face of it, he was a pretty
good suspect. He was a resident of New Norfolk. He
had a history of documented sex crimes. At least one
of those crimes involved picking up a woman from a
bus stop on the afternoon of twenty fifth August sixty nine.
He'd failed to report for work. He was on his
(10:39):
own between the twenty third and twenty seventh. When his
wife got home, he had burns on his face and arms,
had a new pair of pajamas. There were so many
fishy things. There was also in the back garden remains
of burnt items, including bits of a makeup compact, scissors,
bits and pieces looked very very good. And even the
wife later on said that he'd done some brick work
(11:01):
at home because there'd been a terrible smell, and she
was convinced that Donagan had done it. Even when I
spoke to Lonigan's daughter years later, she was convinced he'd
done it. So I can understand why Canning was so
keen not to get distracted, I guess by Hunt's confession,
but Kraggy's. I would have thought that those two detectives
could have made a bit more noise on the way through,
(11:22):
because the record of interview, the interrogation register recorded that
Hunt could not help with Lucille at all. So he
was really painted out of the story comprehensively by Canning.
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Yeah, lookorb Canning, for what I understand, was an ambitious man. Look,
he ended up becoming an assistant Commissioner, which such was
his ambition. So with Donigan, he'd obviously had his finger
on Lonigan for the whole time. And as I said,
all the statements and information pointed to Lonigan. Even I thought,
when I only had information relating to Lonigan, how could you.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Go past this guy.
Speaker 5 (11:57):
But all Canning had put his career on the line
and said that John Lonigan was responsible for Lucio. Butworth
told the administration. And I guess now, if Hunt's admission
had to be taken seriously, he would have looked a
bit silly, I would have thought. So I can't say
conclusively that was the reason behind or can dismissing the admission,
but as a really battling one way, he didn't let
(12:19):
him pursue that more.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
It really is.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And you know, that was a classic case of tunnel vision.
Had a good suspect eventually hoping you get that critical
piece of information that will put this bloke behind bars,
but it never came, and it was your job when
you got the file to tear down the hypothesis like
a good detective does. Ewan Plumpton actually found Lot again.
He was living up in Queensland, and I think from
(12:43):
what I read, he was pretty open about saying that
he had not done it. It admitted his past crimes,
so pretty soon I think you were able to discount
possibility he was involved.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Look the fact that he was never charged or they
never got as far as actually having evidence on him
so that would suggests that maybe he wasn't responsible.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
There's a lot of anomalies.
Speaker 5 (13:06):
Even his own wife and daughter suspected that he was
capable of something like that. He certainly was because he
did time in jail for sexual offenses, so he's certainly
capable of it. But because of that water's been muddied,
they failed to look at more obvious things. Now as
we know, this was seven years before Hunt did murder
(13:27):
Susan Knight. But there was the fact that they had
Anthony Field say he saw a turquoise holding right next
to the female. If they had pursued that better. It
wasn't until about twenty thirteen where I had conversations with
Hunt's family. Believe it or not, they'd never been spoken
to at any stage up until I spoke to them
(13:48):
some forty odd years later. Keen Hunt started telling me
about a car that the family had. It was a
turquoise car. Whether he said it was greeny blue, he
said turquoise. It was a light bulb moment familiar. I thought,
he what the family had a turquoise Bomby car.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Oh my good.
Speaker 5 (14:05):
You know why forty odd years later had this information
come out? If you murder investigation today is you turn
it over every stone, you know, you look everywhere. But
back in nineteen sixty nine to in the years to follow,
that in his degree wasn't taken and they really missed.
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Something they did.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And I think the other critical piece about that car
was that it had damage to one of the doors
that had been replaced with a different color. And your
witness Field had also seen that apparently.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Well he reported damage to.
Speaker 5 (14:40):
It's quite a good detailed observation's Anthony Field.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
He come from England only seven years before.
Speaker 5 (14:47):
So his knowledge of Australian beings may not have been
as good as it could have been. So he described
it as a bomby car, and then police took a
statement from him and he described it as an FJ.
We don't know whether he was led by police to
say it was an FJ or otherwise, but he said
it had damage to just in front of the driver's door.
(15:08):
And when David and inspect to plumped and I interviewed Hunt,
we put that damage to him about the turquoise holding,
and we were gobs made for him to actually say, no,
my car had damage on the passenger side just in
front of the door. I thought, why is he even
volunteer that information. He's trying to explain something he didn't
(15:29):
need to explain. We don't have the car to say
that the damage was on the right hand side or
the left hand side. But he just tried to explain
it away. And I thought that was more remarkable.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
To It was because by the time you got to
interview Hunt, you'd already done an exhaustive investigation. Really exemptary.
By the way I've got I hand it to you.
I've seen some pretty poor ones. This is a really
good one, And forty years after the fact, you're finding
witnesses that should have been interviewed in the first few days.
You start to piece together the background of Jeffrey Charles Hunt.
(15:58):
It was troubled. He was from a big family there
in New Norfolk. He and his brother were albinos. They'd
been shunned by their fellows up there. He'd had trouble
adjusting to society. He was also accused of an attempted
sexual assault by one of the girls in his cohort
there in New Norfolk. He knew, this is what you established.
(16:20):
He knew John Fitzgerald, Lucile's boyfriend. He'd even worked at
Clyde Fitzgerald's shop in New Norfolk. So you quickly established
a connection between the victim and your suspect, to the
point where you had a testimony from John Fitzgerald who
said Lucille saw Hunt looking at her over the fence
(16:40):
when she was sun baking, and she, quite in a
derogatory tone, said, Whitey is looking at me. So you
set up this marginalized person who's an attractive female and
you start to see a motive emerging here as you
went down that path and you're discovering Hunt's background.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
Where did it take you?
Speaker 5 (17:01):
You mentioned earlier that a sexual offense at the time,
and let's say it was alleged, because he was never
convicted of anything.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
He did front Corp.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
But it was dismissed and the victim and that case
was an eleven year old. This event took place in
a railway station just near his place. The victim's memories
are vague, which he does remember certain aspects of it.
He was charged with that offense and it went to
court in New Norfolk. And I believe and we could
never find the file. The file has been destroyed, but
(17:32):
we believe he was dismissed on the grounds of identification.
And I don't know what aspect of identification there was
a problem.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
With, but you're right he was ostracized. Him and his whole.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Family were albina apart from one sibling, so they all
suffered different points of bullying and finger pointing, and I
believe that made it very hard for them to interact.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
They didn't have many friends.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Jeffrey in particular, he struggled with the violence in his
own home. His father was very violent towards his mother,
and he felt very deeply for his mother. We don't
know how mixed up he became as a result of
his upbringing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And you even found out that his father, Bill, who
was a veteran, as you say, he was a bit
of a drunk and he abused his wife and the
kids were exposed to that, and there seemed to be
some sort of relationship between Bill and the local constabatory,
where I think you ran the theory that young Jeffrey
had been protected from some consequences early on, which might
have been telling in the final outcome.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
There was certainly a lot easier to cover your backside
in those days and look after people if you wanted to,
and I believe that, Yeah, Bill Hunt, he had a
really good relationship with the local sergeant. He had been
a sergeant in Norfolk for almost a decad, I believe,
so they formed a very strong bond. They drink at
the RSL together. And there was one witness that attended
(18:55):
the Norfolk station reporter case of his clothes been taken
from the clothesline, snowdropping we call it. And always in
a conversation this witness, he spoke to the sergeant a sergeant.
Doesn't know which one he said, but the sergeant said
to him, yeah, yeah, yeah, we know who's taken lou Sille,
and then he didn't discuss it any further.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
We believe that that sergeant knew.
Speaker 5 (19:19):
The circumstances surrounding it, but when we spoke to him,
he'd suffered quite a few strokes and his reliability. We
couldn't really tell whether he was giving us a bit
of a run around, or whether he was genuinely forgetful
or otherwise. But we just think a lot of people knew,
including two Jeffrey's siblings. We can only suggest we think
(19:41):
they knew. We can't say conclusively, but I think two
of the brothers were kept in the dark pretty much
by the family, and they ended up being our fantastic
witnesses to give us an insight into the family life
growing up and also the vehicle that the family had
for many years. Jeffrey maintained two police in some of
those interviews and statements that he didn't know Lucille, he
(20:04):
didn't drive a he didn't have a license. He maintained
all that he was getting away with it because it
can be disproved. But when we interviewed him, we were
able to disprove all those things. It was quite pleasing
to see him starting to pedal backwards on some of
his statements because we were able to prove he had
a driver's license at the time of taking Lucille. We
prove he drove to work, and we proved what car
(20:26):
that he drove in, which is a Bomby Turk boys
holding one way in and out of Hobart in those days,
and you know, in fact, was one road through Clamont.
You couldn't go alternate roads.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
No other way.
Speaker 5 (20:37):
We know that he drove past that way on that
night because he dropped a colleague off from work at
his home in Milwaukee. And drove past Lucille, So we
know he was driving, we know what time he was
driving past, and we know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That he knew Lucille.
Speaker 5 (20:51):
And it was quite satisfying for us to actually disprove
all those points. And David Plumpton in fact said in
one of your previous podcasts, we said, we can prove
that Jeffrey Hunter liar. We just can't prove that he's
a murderer.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Except that it came out of his mouth with the
police and then in jail not once, not twice, not three.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
But four times.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I believe four confessions with ringingly similar content and detail.
Speaker 5 (21:21):
During the inquest, and we presented the case. Now at
the file we presented to the inquest with thirty blinders,
it was extensive, included clear voyance because they were quite
popular back in the day, and actually included so much information.
But during the inquest, a seven week in quest, we
had three former convicts or prisoners if you like, came
(21:42):
forward that had spent time in prison with Hunt. Now
that all spent time with him at different points of
his centers. Now, jeffing Up was in JAF for twenty
four years, so those three prisoners didn't know each other.
They didn't know each other had come forward, but they'd
all come forward with various piece of information. Now one said,
(22:03):
when I was in prison with Hunt, went up to
him and I said, hi, mate, what are you in for?
And Hunt said, I'm in for murder. But they haven't
got me on.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
The other one yet, they haven't found the body.
Speaker 5 (22:14):
The next prisoner had a similar conversation with him and
Hunt spraguing about having killed Dual Butterworth completely unsolicited. Witnesses
come forward and Dual Butterworth, and that in itself is
fairly reliable because he knew very well the inquest was
for Lucille Butterworth. But he quoted Hunt the way hand
(22:37):
said it Dual Butterworth.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Another prisoner his information was.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
The conversation went along the lines of if you ever
want to pick up a girl, the best way is
should rive past the bus stop if they're looking a
little bit lost, or they're looking like they need to write.
He said that's the best way to pick up a girl.
That's quite profound as well. So that's all circumstantial evidence
on top of everything else we had. So we put
(23:05):
the matter to the DPP and to review, and we
thought we had an overwhelming case of circumstantial.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Events, and the coroner agreed and he came to the
view that Jeffrey Charles Hunt was the corpet. It's not
his role to apportion guilt or innocence, but certainly to
play out the facts that can then be taken up
by the Director of Public Prosecutions. I reading all the eddents,
I thought this blokes a walk up start to be charged.
You'd a fantastic interview with him where all the inconsistencies
(23:33):
were highlighted. You'd done the work and you tied him
to a story and his own lies in there where
he said he didn't drive the car, didn't have a license,
he always caught the bus to motors there his workplace
in Hobart. He couldn't have picked up Lucir because he
didn't have a license or a car. And this was
all false because you knew that he'd driven the whole
family to a wedding in Lonceston prior to this. So
(23:55):
you were able to put all this stunning evidence to him,
and what was his response. He started to get very
angry and pounding the table and other sort of stuff,
And it was a classic case of good cop and
bad copy. He had plumb than there who was sort
of jollying Hunter Long where you were delivering the killer blows,
as it were, from all the evidence that you'd created.
And I thought the ennybody was going to confess, but
he didn't. Yeah, he'd lost his He had a chance
(24:16):
to confess for real and didn't take it.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
It was a bit like a volleyball game. You sort
of set the ball up for the slam. You know,
I don't have a license. I never had a license. Okay, Jeffrey,
when did you get your licensees? So I was nineteen
blah blah blah, And I already knew at this point
that I had some information from a former police officer
that left the job Christmas time ninety sixty eight or
January by ninety sixty nine. And in those days, police
(24:40):
officers took people for their driver's license, and he actually
took Jeffrey for his driver's license. He can't remember the
day or date, but that particular police officer lost his
job with Tasmania Police at the Christmas in ninety sixty eight,
and he had already awarded Jeffrey license.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
So that proved and I put that to Jeffrey and oh,
I can't be sure.
Speaker 5 (25:02):
I can't be sure of the time, but for forty
years he's been made. I never had a license at
that time, so you know, it was those sort of
things where he's backtracking. And you know the same with
the car. I never drove that car, but his dad
literally never drove. He did not drive the car. The
only person to drive the car was Jeffrey, and he
bought that car so the whole family could take a
trip to Long System to a family wedding, and Jeffrey
(25:25):
drove that particular time. So yeah, all those all those
pieces of evidence were fantastic.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, what was brilliant in this interview was that Plumpton
was allowing him to extemporize on all this detail to
show his incredible recall of seeming the unimportant minutie of
his life, so obviously demonstrating his memory, and then you
would come in with specific points about Lucille. Suddenly he
would develop amnesia all life.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Yeah, and that was frustrating too, because you've got nowhere
to go, you know very well that we've got him
in a corner. He just needed him to say, yeah,
I did it. You know, that was particularly frustrating. My
dad was a prison officer for thirty five years. He
knew Hunt, he spent time with Hunt. He just said
that he's count as the shit house rat. He's very shrewd.
(26:18):
And I had a chat with Hunt outside the station
now just before we drove him home after the interview,
and I was just chatting with him about It's funny
he knew my dad too. Here he put the Millhouse
name to it, and he just started talking about it.
And he started talking to him on a casual basis
about nothing that's going to give him issues like his
(26:38):
dad and my dad and everything.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
And oh wow, what a memory. He's just so fluent,
cunning as the word.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
And so those confessions came at a time when he
felt very secure. He was in a minimum security prison,
I think it was a prison farm, and they gave
him some dogs and he had some sheep, and he
felt like he had a bit of position and comfort
in life. And he was then seeking friends which he'd
never had before in his life. So, and you don't
have that option anymore in Tasmania for a minimum security
I wonder if he could have been offered to him
that he could have served out his jail term in
(27:08):
such an environment that he might have offered a confession up.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, he may very well have done.
Speaker 5 (27:14):
But in those early days after he made that confession
and all Canning shutting down, he had uncle Max Moult,
who's also he was a detective.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I believe that.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
A few people who got around him family included you
keep your mouth shut. I don't ever talk of it again.
If you ever asked, don't speak of it again. So
the small window with the confession was made that all
Canning shut down was lost. But this investigation was completely thorough.
There were people that we had spoken to the meeting
that Lucy went to in an all folk, no one
(27:46):
ever spoke to anyone at that meeting because, as you know,
John Fitzgerald was attending that meeting, and in any murder case,
you perhaps look at the de facto or the husband
or the wife or the person in the relationship. And
no one spoke to anyone at that meeting to determine
John Fitzgerald's demeanor, you.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Know he was or otherwise.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It just seems so incomplete, Yeah, very incomplete. And I
guess we could have thought that Jeffrey Charles Hunt was
out of sight out of mind. He was serving a
life sentence without the prospect of parole back in those
days when you had those sort of sentences, and then
there was a change.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
He was given a minimum sentence and he.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Gets out and pretty soon we start to hear stories
about him hanging around caravan parks where there were women
and possibly going back to his old tricks. This bloke
is a recalcitrant sex offender who should never have been released.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
In my opinion, yeah, absolutely, I can agree with that,
and I can't clarify his behavior after that time, but
I know that prior to murdering Susan Knight in nineteen
seventy six, he become very tempted in a lot of ways.
There was people that he was pursuing prior to the murder,
(29:02):
in the months prior, trying to set them up in
the end the way that Susan Knight was taken down unfortunately.
For example, Jeffrey Hunt, he responded to a notice in
the local newspaper a nineteen year old girl had offered
her services as a babysitter, so it was advertised in
the miscellaneous part of the newspaper and said Hunt was
(29:25):
replied to it ringing her and said I've got two
children the agents of this and that can we meet
to discuss it? So on the Monday morning that was
the arranged time he rocked up at her house. He
must have been sitting off it because once her husband
left for work, he knocked on the door some hour early.
(29:47):
She was still dressed in her NightWare. It turned out
to be a neglige. She told us an interview was
the one she worn on a honeymoon, so she was
quite attractive to Hunt, so she felt uncomfortable she invited
him in anyway. That started to discuss the circumstances around
his children being babysat without notice. He then lunged at
(30:07):
her on the couch. He grabbed her and graped her,
and she screamed. And she was on the lower level
of a townhouse, and the people upstairs can be heard
running across the floor, obviously to see what the screams were,
at which point Hunt then fled the apartment and left. Now,
this particular witness gave a statement to police and described
(30:27):
who he was. He wasn't identified until he was in
custody for the murder and on TV, and then she
went to police and said that man that's on TV
for that particular matter, he was the man that attacked me.
The police officers at the time said, well, look, he's
in custody now for a serious matter and he's unlikely
(30:48):
beginning out of jail, and they never pursued her sexual
assault case, and that lady today still grieves over that
lack of justice.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Absolutely, I mean this guy seriously, he's better off in jail.
He finally gets parole and has plans to leave Tasmania
to get a caravan and drive around Australia. My goodness,
what an opportunity for a sex offender without regret, to
take up his old profession once more. And luckily that
(31:18):
was stopped and the parole his conditions were changed, so
he has to remain within Tasmania. So he finds himself
put in a let's say, a northern Tasmanian town. I'm
not going to reveal the town because there's enough people
hastling him already. I've got no sympathy for him, but
he is in a kind of purgatory where he's better
off in jail.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
And in fact, I went to the.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Location where he is a few years ago and I
was told that it'll all be dark. He doesn't come out.
He only comes out to go and see his parole
officer in Devonport. The only way you'll know he's in
there is the heating pipe will be on, it'll be warm.
So sure enough it was warm, and he was in there.
And I spent most of the night in an awful
Tasmanian weather was pouring and shocking. And the next time
(31:58):
I missed him and he's gone off to his appointment
in Devonport. And I happened to catch him on the
way out, and I decided not to confront him him
but to follow him to see what he did. And
he had to walk I think about a four hundred
meter journey back to the place where he's getting his
community bust to his residence. But he did this two
and a half three kilometer secuitous route which was clearly
about Canas surveillance that he knew people were following him.
(32:20):
So I thought, this, what sort of life is this
bloke got? He's living on his own. Family, I don't
think talks to him very much, and there he is.
I meanwhile, this whole case is just I was reflecting
this afternoon carry actually that what happens to these cases
where all the witnesses die off. A lot of people
you spoke to fifteen years ago are probably dead now
(32:42):
or their memories have failed. Could they even go before
a court. Lucille's parents are dead. Her brother Jimmy, who
had driven the investigation for years as also did him,
went up there to Hunt's town and I thought was
going to murder him, and you're offside of Plumpton had
to virtually cut him off at the past, so he
didn't do that. Jimmy's gone, John Fitzgerald, the boyfriend's gone.
(33:03):
There's only one brother left, John butter Worth. And it
was so sad a few years ago when in anger
and frustration he goes down there to the spot where
you believe Blue Seal was dumped for one of a
better word, with a shovel and was digging himself, had
his scuba gear out, was diving in the river himself,
hoping against hope that something would be just. So something
was being done. Of course, the way the Dermot works,
(33:25):
if Hunt had put her body in the river would
have been taken by the current, probably the same day,
fast flowing river.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
Look, the reason we looked at that particular spot, because
when he confessed in nineteen seventy six, he actually identify
where he had dubb Bluse Hill, and he was specific
in the fact that he said, as you said earlier,
he tried to kiss her, she resisted. He then, I
don't know what overcame me and strangled, strangled it to death.
And then in his admissions, he said he took her
(33:56):
in a fireman's carry out of the vehicle to walk
towards the river through the shrubs and dumped her. Then
he said got back to the car, one of the
shoes still there and her handbag, so he also took
them out as well, So his emission was very specific.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Now, we for.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
One month dug an area around that particular point. We
had nineteen sixty nine satellite aera photography from that particular site,
so we can see what it looked like in ninetly
sixty nine and we can see what it looked like today.
It was very similar in appearance. But where police dug
recently was in an area that was obviously an open
(34:33):
space where Hunt said he took her out towards the river. Now,
I'd say the river from his car would be one
hundred and fifty meters. We don't know how far he
walked out, but that area where he walked out was
never looked at because of swamp land. At the time
of our our digging excavation. It was a king tie,
(34:54):
would you believe, So right up to where his car
would have been, we had tider water, so it was
impossible to actually dig anywhere outside there area that we had,
and the area that we had was simply not the
place because it was just a car park basically.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Now, that area back in sixty.
Speaker 5 (35:13):
Nine was used by main roads when they were building
the highway to double the gravel their excavators and everything,
so that's why that was there. So that was a
site that people use to go parking with their other
and smooch and etc. And we believe from what we
can see from the era of photography that there was
a bit of an alcove where he could actually drive
(35:35):
in there not be seen from the main road and
the rest history. We certainly believe that's the spot where
it would have been.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
And this was at corroborated by one of the convict witnesses,
if you like. Philip Paris said much the same sort
of thing. So it's quite mystifying what happens now, because
it must have been so disappointing to you when the
coroner was so emphatic about the excellent investigation, the mountains
of circumstantial evidence, but the DPP declined to put him
(36:04):
before the court.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Unfortunately, the matters before a coroner not admissible in a
Supreme court, So anything that was said in there is
not admissible and couldn't be used. But what happened in
the inquest for one day, Hump was afforded one day's defense.
In that one day's defense, they had a lawyer come in,
a good criminal lawyer come in and start crossing examining
(36:26):
some of our witnesses. And the way he tore down
one of those ex prisoners and Jeffrey's brother King, it
was really harsh. Everyone's seen it on TV, the way
they defense lawyers work. He tore them up pretty much
about the unreliability of their memories and it was really
hard to watch. So I imagine if we did ever get
(36:47):
the matter to a court based on circumstantial evidence, it
would be very, very hard to convict, and I think
that's probably how the DPP saw it. With as you said, Adam,
the witnesses all dying out, and we've lost a lot
more since the two thousand and sixth An inquest as well.
But the unreliability of memory defense would tear that apart.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
It'd be hard to watch well.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
But you've got to put your faith in juries to
occasionally get this right, because you had the stunning precedent
really where you had the murder of alleged murder of
Bob Chappell by his partner Syni Or Fraser in two
thousand and nine, where there was no body again, a
lot of circumstantial evidence, a lot of post offense conduct
(37:29):
issues like lies, and they were able to convict syon
Neil Fraser.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
And I think there was less evidence in that case.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
And I wonder whether this is a bit of judicial conservatism.
The previous DPP tim Ellis had been fairly i'd say
adventurous by bringing that case to Cord he had success.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Do you think you're a victim of that?
Speaker 5 (37:48):
Well, I can speculate in that direction, and I actually
have said that looking at the circumstantial events related to
Sir Neil Fraser, I believe that the Hunt and Butterworth
case we had so much more circumstantial evidence, but couldn't
get over the line. And I actually saw the coroner
just in a casual conversation. I said, oh, they're not
(38:10):
running with it, and the jaw dropped and they're not
like that. I mean, he had to stay reasonably professional,
but I could see his surprise after knowing what we know.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Mmm, so do you feel like this is unfinished business
for you?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Carry?
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 5 (38:27):
I always hope that I'm going to get a phone
call one day to say, look, Hunt wants to speak
to you. We know he's done it. We absolutely know.
And the two of the brothers have said he's done this.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
You know they know. People close to this know.
Speaker 5 (38:43):
We all know John Boworth. He's not been able to
move forward with his life ever because you know, he
promises mum. You know, we'll never give up on this, Mum.
We'll find Lucille for you. We'll never give up. And
I saw John only this month and I said to him, look,
be satisfied. You've you've honored your comment to your mum.
I said, we know what happened to steal, we know
(39:05):
where she is. Forgive yourself, John, if you've done what
you can. We're not going to give up until a
space until Hunt dies and then Neill take that, you
take that with him. But yeah, it's a murderer who's
got away with it.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Really.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Hunt was born in nineteen fifty, makes him seventy five.
Now he's not getting any younger. All the witnesses are dying.
You wonder what happens to this case. So what happens
when he dies? Do you think the police just stop?
Is that what happens in these cases when there's no
longer anybody to lock up.
Speaker 5 (39:35):
The potential for prosecution is pretty much done, so it
can only be convicted in the public call of opinion
as they call it. I think it's so frustrating because
the whole Naufai community they all know, everyone knows, but
we just can't get the man convicted of Lucille's death.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
It's up to him, really, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Listen, Carry you've done your best, along with Plumping and
Christine Rush and a fantastic team.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
You can be proud of yourselves what you did.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
And really, for police officers, it's not about the result,
it's about the process. Doing everything you can to honor
your promises to family and loved ones that everything shall
be done. No stones should be left unturned. And I
think this was an exemporary investigation of which you can
be dutifully proud, because this was one of those things
where you didn't really get a lot of support for
the whole investigation.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
You did it off the side of.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Your desk, almost a part time investigation amongst everything else
that you were dealing with at.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
The dass of CIB.
Speaker 5 (40:29):
That's right, as I said, inspect to plump and ask
for anyone to volunteer to put the matter to an inquest.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
So I'll put my hand up.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
So along with other duties, I started investigating Lucille, and
to the point where I was sometimes afforded two or
three weeks specifically for Lucille, but then I had to
go back to my volume of crime carburgs and homeburgs,
et cetera. So it really was just how we managed
to afford it. And you mentioned Christine Russia and when
I managed to gather so much information that had becoming
(40:59):
overwhelming because if I speak to one person that at
least to five more, those five lead to another five
and then you've got more questions than answers. So Christine
come on board as an analyst and started documenting everything
and did analytical reports which were absolutely top class. And
that's how we rolled and David plumped and oversaw the
(41:19):
whole matter. So it wasn't a case of let's get
this cold case team on it. We did it on
the side of our desk, as we say, And after
David came forward and asked volunteers, took five more years
to get that do inquest.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
So that's how long it took.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Yeah, well done, But I really appreciate that on behalf
of the Blue Seal and her family, So thanks very much,
thank you. That was Curry Milhouse, retired Tasmanian detective on
the ongoing mystery into the fate of Blue Seal.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
But it worth not really a mystery at all.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
This is normally the moment where I say, anybody with
evidence should come forward, call crime Stoppers one OU hundred,
triple three, triple zero.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
But there is no mystery here. We know who did it.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
It's now up to Jeffrey Charles Hunt to search his
soul and see if he can come forward to resolve this.
If he has any belief in God or the afterlife,
this is his moment to clear his conscience. I'm not
sure that he will. He's deep in denial, deep in
self justification. That's often what happens in these cases. But
it is a terrible shame, and I do feel a
(42:21):
little bit of despair for the family and that they
put so much into this investigation, so much hope in
the police would do the right thing, and they did,
only to be disappointed by the Director of Public Prosecutions.
I understand the limitations with which they work, but still
this was a very good case and Lucille her memory, unfortunately,
(42:41):
may be lost, replaced by new cold cases, by new
tragedies that are failed to be investigated. We sometimes we
don't learn the lessons. You see this in so many
areas of the criminal law. The same mistakes keep getting
made over and over again. Now with excuses of lack
of resources, lack of staff. Things get done once over lightly.
(43:02):
But the dead only deserve the truth. And this is
what Carrie and his mates in Tasmania Police did for Lucille.
Unfortunately it wasn't enough anyway, No much more we can
do with at the moment. But if someone does have
some information, please come forward, anything at all. Maybe he's
told somebody else, Maybe there's one more piece of evidence
that can be the final piece that says to Jeffrey
(43:24):
charles On, it's time to confess. Thanks once again for listening.
If you like the podcast, please subscribe, share it with
your friends. This has been real crime with Adam shanned.
Thank you for listening.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.