December 21, 2023 • 29 mins
Gary Samia, a seasoned real estate professional with extensive experience in Maine's property market, provides a deep dive into the nuances of Maine's real estate landscape, highlighting the unique aspects that make it an attractive destination for various demographics. He discusses the influx of residents from diverse locations, both domestic and international, and how this has impacted the state, particularly Cumberland County. Gary's insights cover the appeal of Maine's affordability, natural beauty, and the balance of urban and rural living, which has drawn a significant number of new residents in recent years.
Gary also delves into the intricacies of Maine's real estate industry, including the challenges and opportunities presented by the COVID-19 pandemic. He shares his journey in real estate, starting in 1988, and how his approach has evolved over the years, adapting to market changes and technological advancements. The episode is a valuable resource for understanding Maine's real estate dynamics, offering perspectives on the state's growth, the impact of new industries like cannabis and technology, and the changing preferences of buyers and sellers in the current market. Gain an in-depth understanding of Maine's unique real estate market, the factors driving its growth, and the opportunities it presents for both real estate professionals and potential residents.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:21):
Live from the hottest real estate market in America, Tampa Bay, Florida.
This is the real estate leads podcast with the CEO
and founder of the Olga system. Your host, Lisa Carter.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh, man. So the county numbers are in um and
there is 34,000 people
between 2020 2022
that moved to Maine and the winner is Cumberland County.
But all counties experience some sort of migration, domestic folks
from other states and some international. So we have today
(01:02):
the expert on Maine and
a great friend of mine, Gary Sama who's been in
the state for a very long time as a business
owner and knows the market and I want to call
him G because I'm from New Jersey and that's what
we call Gary's in New Jersey Gas. So, G how
are you? Thank you for coming on the show today. Oh,
I'm fantastic. It's a whopping 22 degrees in Maine today.
(01:26):
So it's beautiful out there, but the sun's shining. So
you have shorts on and a sweatshirt
that's normal, that's normal winter weather. How cold does it
have to be before you put pants on? Uh, at
least at least keep it above zero. Ok. So, so
it is a very, uh, season, a very cold place
(01:47):
for a very long time. The season is winter is
a very long season. It's a DNA of the state.
So why with 34,000 people move to Maine in the
last couple of years?
Well, I think, I think affordability is, is one Maine
is probably right now, um, a affordable state and as
(02:08):
well as a nice state to be in, I mean,
there's some other states that are affordable but probably not
as nice as Maine and you have lakes and oceans
and mountains. Um, to be here, I mean, it's just
a very, very peaceful, wonderful place to uh to be
living in. Speaking of which, how long have you lived there?
I've been here for 45 years, like I came here
(02:30):
45 years ago when my son was four days old
and our plan was to be here a couple of
years and here we are 45 years later and we
don't believe we're gonna be moving very soon. Well, if you,
if you can't, because if someone will take your spot,
it's like, you know, as soon as you move from Maine,
there's like 10 other people that want your house, they
(02:52):
want your boat, they want your land.
It's like crazy. But you mentioned, I think a lot
of people don't know that. Although yes, there is a
long season of winter, um, and, and fall. So it's
a gorgeous place and you can be in the mountains
or you can be in the ocean and is it
just an hour or two? Gary? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah,
(03:15):
you could be, you know, you could be up in, uh,
Sugarloaf and then an hour and a half later you
could be out on the, uh, on the waters of
northern Maine.
So that, that's awesome. So I think what I'm seeing
is a lot of people from the West coast finding
uh a very similar terrain. Like if you think about California,
you can be, you know, an hour away from the
(03:35):
beach or from the mountains. So where are you seeing?
I said 35,000 people. Cumberland County. Um You wanna talk
about that a little bit why Cumberland County seeing such
a increase and then the internet, it's becoming an international county, 10%
of it, of that number was international uh migrants.
Well, I think a lot of it has to do
(03:56):
with the city of Portland. Um the city of Portland,
which is really the uh the, the center of Cumberland
County or at least the uh metropolis of uh Cumberland County.
Um It's just such a beautiful small uh safe city
to be in and you could be in surrounding beautiful
surrounding towns like, you know, Falmouth and Yarmouth and Cumberland.
(04:20):
Um and still be uh Uber away from being in
downtown Portland or the old port section of Portland. Uh
Portland
was at one time. I don't know if it still
is or not. Uh The Mecca of um of craft
beers were more micro breweries popping up into the city
(04:41):
of Portland than anywhere else. I know it's caught on
in a lot of other places. Uh But there were
all kinds of them in Portland and it was like
really the birthing area of micro breweries.
So I think a lot of people like that type
of atmosphere and they like the uh the the parts
of uh Portland uh that are just a nice city
(05:01):
to uh to be in and, and it's still an
affordable city compared to like Manhattan and some other places.
I mean, you
be having affordable housing uh and being and being in
a city and be able to just walk in. It's
a city you don't need a car. And if you,
if you didn't need your car to go anywhere, you
don't need your car to go around Portland, you can
get around Portland very easily without a vehicle. So uh
(05:23):
Portland's a nice walkable town. That's correct. It's very, very
walkable and
um beautiful sections of the city that have been uh
been really uh renovated and gentrified and just looking uh
looking wonderful, uh especially up in the west end and
Mundo Hill area are just fantastic places to live.
(05:44):
So I talked about the number of people that have
migrated um, from across the country and, um, both internationally
type of people. So, retirees is this still, you know,
I used to think of Maine as a place that you,
you know, the model is vacation land. You think of
a place where you just kind of go and you
slow down, you know, the, uh, your life, but you
(06:04):
just talked about a walkable vibrant downtown, like Portland, um,
are retirees still coming to the state?
I don't think there's as many retirees coming into the state. It's,
it's not a very uh retirement friendly state uh for
tax purposes. Um So I, I don't, I think it's
more um the younger crowd is, is really migrating this way,
(06:30):
especially with uh working from home. COVID really helped Maine
uh because when it's affordable to people were working from home.
So they, they didn't have to be in these expensive
areas to be able to, to live and work. They
could just work from home and they could still have
the feel of living in a city. A lot of
people moved
north from Manhattan once COVID hit because they could, and
(06:54):
they could cut their, their living costs down by 20
or 30%.
Uh So that made a big difference and still worked
the same job, made the same amount of money and
was able to basically live in a city life which they,
which they enjoyed living in Manhattan. Uh no match to
Manhattan as far as size wise and things like that.
But still, it's uh a lot of theaters are out here.
(07:15):
A lot of uh a lot of restaurants, you know,
the old port section is loaded with restaurants and
various types of drinking places and, and partying places. It's
just a, just a fun little city. It is very
vibrant and you mentioned um the amount of breweries um
that are, are in Portland, some really great brands have
(07:36):
been launched um out of that uh Cumberland County, that
Portland area.
Um and, and that's been going on for quite a while.
That that hasn't changed, but there's, there's give me some
other things that may have changed over the years now.
One of the things I know are the laws on
cannabis um and how that has really uh created another
industry um in the state and business is coming there
(07:59):
um to be a part of that uh industry. Can
you talk a little bit about how um the legalization
of cannabis um has affected the state economy?
Well, I think it's helped it out quite a bit.
I uh I don't really know a lot about it.
I I'm sorry to say, but I know that in
my area, I'm in New York County. Um I know
(08:20):
that some of the surrounding towns that are, but in
New Hampshire
have cannabis sales places going up like it's like corner
corner stores, I mean, they're just everywhere I think between uh,
town of Sanford and going into Lebanon before you get
into Rochester. Uh, there must be six or seven cannabis different, uh, places,
(08:41):
some recreational, some medical. Uh, but they're, they're really just
growing up like, uh, you know, unbelievably quick through the
area
the city I live in is very controlled. It's very
controlled and they don't, they only allowed so many licenses and,
and that's it. But there's
quite a few of them out there. Um You know,
(09:01):
by where our office is in Ky, I mean, there's a,
there's a, there's a handful of them, right, in a
small little community of Ky and Elliott. Um that's just,
you know, there's no restrictions out in that area, but
uh Sanford held a restriction, I think they only allowed
six total of six licenses in the state,
right? I think in other counties where there's a little
(09:22):
bit more um agricultural uh based um industry, you may
find some of, some of the restrictions in uh in
um a little bit more lax. And also, you know,
there's different levels, I guess, you know, you can be
retail or you can be agricultural. Um the, the other
industry that's come up besides cannabis is tech, like I'm
hearing so much about uh particularly Portland Cumberland County being
(09:45):
a tech hub um
where businesses are coming in like crazy and building um
a nice uh industry, robust industry jobs and how there's
four and maybe that's why we're seeing those in um
migration of young people that are coming to the state.
I think it has a lot to do with it.
I think, um, you know, Portland want, I know Portland
(10:07):
wants to be the tech industry of the, of, of
the northeast. Um And again, I think it goes back
to um affordability and tax benefits that uh the city
and the state will offer for that type of pro
uh that type of business to move into the uh
into the state. So it makes uh it, it, it
(10:28):
really is pretty inviting
um to that. Uh you know, and, and you know, the,
the highway runs right through the middle of the state.
So it's easy like in Portland to jump on the
highway and be in Boston if you wanted to be
in Boston in a, in an hour and a half drive, which,
which isn't a long drive at all and you could
(10:48):
be at the airport and you can take off the
BBB or you can be in downtown in downtown Boston
in an hour and a half. So,
and they, and they have a, and the other thing
they have is they have a high speed train. Uh
The commuter train that goes from uh goes from Brunswick
to uh to Boston and it's a high speed. So,
(11:09):
you know, so if you didn't want to drive, you
could leave Wells Maine where, where it would be my
stop and be in Boston and the same time it
would take me to drive and a lot of people
use that train, um, going down to Boston along the, um,
uh, and through both through the Maine and, and New Hampshire.
Um So you're absolutely right about that. There are quite
(11:31):
a few people that take, uh, that high speed train
right down to, to Boston. They only have to come
into work a couple days a week. Like you said,
they'll hop on the train. It's nice. They get their
work done. Um, and they're able to have affordable, more affordable, uh,
lifestyle up in Maine.
Yeah, and they can, and they can work while they're
on the, on the, on the train, which is, you
can't do while you're driving unless you're like me and
(11:53):
you talk on the phone all day long. But I mean,
you go and you work on your computer, you just
do that whole hour and a half ride. You get
on the train, you can be working and then on
the way home the same way. So you don't lose
any time whatsoever by being on the train.
So I mentioned affordable lifestyle. You, um, happen to be in, in,
in the real estate industry. We talked about a couple
(12:14):
of other industries. Um, how long, um, tell me a
little bit about how you got into real estate and,
and what you're doing today. Um, in terms of the
state of Maine how long you've been licensed? What are
you doing? And, and we'll talk about the housing industry
because that's really important to everyone right now.
Well, in 1988 I was a business administrator for a
(12:34):
school district here in Stanford. Um, and a friend of
mine wanted to run for State Senator and he needed
to sell his business. And I thought, well, this is
a great investment. I'll just buy a real estate company.
And I did, I wasn't licensed, I wasn't licensed. Um,
I enjoyed real estate. I was actually one of his,
one of his top clients. I would be buying apartment
(12:55):
buildings or houses or whatever I needed. Um, and so
I was like one of his top business people. And so, um,
he came to me and I see I'll buy a
company and then quickly learned I had to have a
license really to even do anything.
So in 1988 I got licensed as a real estate agent.
Um, back then, it was a little easier than it
(13:16):
is today and I could be a broker's license, be
a broker quicker because I had an MB A. Uh,
so I didn't have to wait for five years to
become a broker. So I through that pretty quickly, it
was back then. It's not now, back then you can,
you can walk in with a degree and say, hey,
throw me a broker's license
and I was a little independent and uh, you know, had,
(13:39):
had a nice little business going, then the downturn came
of the nineties, early nineties, um, and an opportunity came
to buy a century 21 franchise.
Um, so I bought it in, uh, 1993.
Um, and that's when my company just started to take
off and, and, uh, made a big difference to my
(14:02):
lifestyle and my, and, and my income and, and it
became very, very profitable and very good. And, um, you know,
I had a good, I was in it for a
long time. 30 some odd, 30 years. Anyway. I had
a good friend of mine, uh, who, you know, uh,
was on my case for a long time to sell
my company because he wanted to come to Maine but
didn't want to step on my toes.
(14:23):
Um, finally convinced me to sell my company to him
and that was seven years ago and I'm still working
for him. It's not that long. I'm, I'm, I'm glad
you're still in the game. Yeah, I'm still in the game. But, uh,
I will tell you today I turned 70 today is
your birthday, today is out of here.
(14:47):
Yeah. November 13th. Happy birthday to you. That's awesome. Had
no idea. So, I probably have another year left into me.
Maybe stop it. We'll stop it. We have to go.
I have a lot of pressure from home to maybe
think about retiring, but I don't know about that, but
(15:09):
we'll have to wait and see what happens.
So you mentioned, you know, there's a lot of chaos
in the market going on right now. Um And you
mentioned that there was uh you saw, actually you started
your business because of a chaotic market because everything is
cyclical people. Um And, and uh we've been here a
different story but, you know, a similar page or a
(15:30):
different story. Um And you built your business during a
time where it was very chaotic, but you seized an opportunity.
Um And so that says a lot about you can,
you can you talk about uh this the,
the chaos right now with interest rates and um how
you are navigating. You're still part of an organization. Uh you,
(15:51):
you lend your expertise every day to new and seasoned
uh real estate agents. What are you telling your team
today about, you know, as they start to really get,
uh they were having a hard time, inventory is low
and um interest rates are high.
Well, you know, interest rates,
I don't see really playing that big of a role
(16:12):
as far as the buying side goes.
Um the interest rate for buyers, they, they, they want
a house, there's a lot of pent up demand and,
and they want a house and they don't look at
the interest rate as an issue uh other than what
they can afford, and it has changed affordability to some people.
(16:32):
But the biggest problems coming in the real estate market
right now is that people that have, that are probably
prime to sell their property. And if they have a
mortgage on it and wherever they're moving to, needs to
be mortgaged, that's where the issue comes because they're probably
sitting on a 2.5 or 3% or 3.5% mortgage right now.
(16:53):
And if they sell their house, even though they'd be
able to make a substantial profit on it,
um, they're gonna end up having to buy a house,
they end up with an eight or 8.5% mortgage. Um,
and that's where the dilemma is coming right now in
the real estate market is that we can't get people
to list their houses because houses that get listed, um, sell,
(17:15):
there's no question about it. They're selling, they're really not
much lag time unless they're well overpriced. And there's some
of those in the market because they think it can be. Um,
and it usually takes a little while for that to
catch up.
But if you place the house correctly,
um, it, it's going to sell and it's going to
sell within, within seven days. Um, and so to me
(17:39):
that's still a wonderful market and you just gotta, you know, you,
you have to price it to sell it. You don't
have to, you know, can't price it anymore for what
it could be because, um, you just got to price
it for what you think the value is worth. And
that's the biggest thing. I tell my people, I tell
my people to go out there and get listings, get
(17:59):
listings
because if you get the listings and you get it
priced right, you are gonna be uh very happy with
your paycheck at the end of every month. So I
really think that's the thing that the name of the
game is listings. It always has been and always will
be listings, getting, getting listings. Um Just to put the
scenario you said is the, the biggest challenge. Um in perspective, 32%
(18:23):
of the mortgages out there right now are under
3%.
Yeah, so that, that there's a challenge um for getting
the listings. But you and I both know that there
are motivated sellers right now in the marketplace for many
different reasons. There, there are there, they're all and, and
(18:44):
uh Maine is uh one of the oldest, you know,
states in the commonwealth here. And, and so un unfortunately,
you know, people,
all the people have to sell their houses at some
point in time because they've gotta go somewhere else and
they don't like where they're going, but they need the
money to go somewhere else. And so those houses are
(19:05):
gonna be on the market and they're gonna be sold.
Um But, you know, they're, they're just, and there's people
just waiting to come in here and and try to
scoop those up. I mean, um, you know, I, I
had a house in, in Springville that we put on
the market and, you know, six days later it, it
was under contract
with very little contingencies and, uh, you know, with the
(19:28):
top of Sanford's market, you know, $465,000 in Sanford, it's
not a normal market in Sanford, you know, normal, normal
sales at Sanford used to be somewhere around 275. I
remember those days, I remember those days we're seeing your
listings at 210, 2 25 2 45. Yeah, we used
to have to sell twice as many houses as most
(19:50):
people in order to be equal with them
and, and now it's, you know, I mean to, to
have that house gone and gone in seven days. Um
You know, it's, it's not, it's, it's, it's just a
still a, it's still a great market for, for sellers
if they have to sell the house or want to
sell their house. Um but it's the ones that are,
like you said, the 30% of the people that
(20:12):
probably would like to sell their house because they're ready
to move to something bigger or something different or closer
to the water or whatever, but I ain't gonna give
up that mortgage rate. No, no, it's sorry. I I
I've been talking about, you know, there's life uh and
milestones in life like you said aging is one of
them death, divorce and taxes is what I tell agents about. Um,
(20:34):
those are people that can't wait for the m the
rates to go down next year.
Um And you know, in between trying to hold on
to your home, there's things that happen, you know, people
get sick, people get divorced, um people ex expire and so, and,
and uh we have utilities and taxes that a lot
of our older population with inflation cannot absorb. So you're
absolutely right. There are still motivated sellers out there and
(20:56):
if you can get a listing, that's great. So that's
the seller. So if I'm a buyer moving to Maine,
should I gary, do you, in your opinion, should I
buy land or should I buy, looking, be looking for
a home?
I think you're still, your best deals are still existing homes.
Um The, the adjustment has not been made yet in
the cons in the construction world uh to make that
(21:19):
new home affordable enough for people to be able to,
to build their house that they want in Maine. Um
You know, the the materials although should be coming down
more and they're not coming down fast enough.
And the tradespeople are so used to making the money
that they're making, they're not prepared to come down yet.
(21:40):
So I think it's the balance is off um as
far as new construction just yet. And uh
I think it a few things gonna have to happen.
Um The price of existing homes need to stay up
so that they're comparable to a new construction. Um And
if that happens, then, then I think we'll see more
(22:01):
new construction going.
Uh You know, a good, really good friend of mine
is in the, in the development business and he stopped
this development. He's not doing anything with it. Oh, you're kidding.
He's just decided to hold tight and not really to
build right now. Um You know, his, his construction world is,
is here in Sanford and new construction houses in Sanford
(22:23):
are well over, you know, well over the 450 for
almost in the, over the 500 mark. Um and Sanford
can't absorb that right now.
So they're, the construction costs are ca causing him to
hold and a bunch of other builders. Now, money is expensive.
Um When you're talking about financing your construction costs, that
labor is expensive in the northeast, you mentioned that the,
(22:45):
the trades guides, they, they're not taking a discount on
their services. Yeah. And, and the regulations are causing certain
things to have to be done that are, you know,
they think they sound like they're small things but, you know,
like to, to Sprinkle a home now that you're gonna
have to Sprinkle a brand new construction home unless you're
on city water and, and there's very little lots of
(23:05):
development area where you're on city water here in Sanford,
you know, it, it's another like 13 $14,000 added to
the construction of a home.
Um So it, it, you know, you start adding those
things from regulation world. It's just starting to drive new
construction out where you can buy an existing home.
You know, even if it's five years old, um you know,
(23:28):
a lot less than you are if you built that
house today. Uh Prime exam, prime example, we have the
little subdivision out behind our office in Sanford. We built
41 houses back here. Um It's probably been 15 years
now since the last house. So we started selling those
houses at $100,000. The highest house was like 225 I
(23:48):
think is what we sold. The last one for
now those houses are going for, you know, 375 and 4425.
And ie we can't, we can't build those houses for 425.
They're well over that amount of money. So, you know,
and so you got a fairly new house sitting out
there where you can buy a lot less than a
(24:10):
um then a new construction. So if you have to
put a little bit of money into it to, to,
you know, redo the flooring and paint and paper or whatever,
uh you can do that and still be well under
the cost of the new house. So I think the
new construction houses are gonna be a little bit stagnant
and that's why I don't think land is that good
of a deal right now.
Wow. So the existing homes, um there's plenty of uh
(24:33):
real estate agents that um work on Gary's team. Um
that can, that can help navigate that, that process. Um
If you're look Maine's hot right now, um The word
is getting out if you're um a real estate agent.
Um And you're licensed somewhere else. How easy is it
to um is it reciprocity with Maine? There's states that
(24:54):
have reciprocity with Maine,
most states do have reciprocity. All you have to do
is pass the law section of Maine in order to
get a license and you could take a law refresher
class here. You can take it online, you could take
it at home study. Uh You don't have to take it,
you can just get the book and, and if you're
a good learner, just be able to, to learn and,
(25:15):
and pass the test. If you pass the test in
your license, you're in a state of Maine.
Um You know, and that's, it's pretty simple retros to
be licensed in the state of Maine.
Wow, that's awesome. So there's opportunity for everyone, there's opportunity
for those that are moving there. Um for various industries,
the real estate industry is hot in Maine. Um If,
if agents wanna uh get, get at um being a
(25:38):
licensed realtor in Maine, it sounds like it's uh uh
uh it's uh the return on the investment. Sounds like it's,
it's pretty, it's really nice. Um
And look, the state has a lot of natural resources,
a lot of outdoor. Um If you're not an outdoor person,
um there's a lot of indoor things to get at.
We are, um we, we are the community moderators for
(25:58):
a page called moving to main page. Um Gary was
AAA great uh influencer of that uh group Gary. We're
up to 13, 14,000 people. Um Your teams in there
interacting every day
um with the, with, with the folks and we're seeing everything.
Um every people from California, we're seeing people from Europe
come in the page asking questions. So moving to Maine
(26:21):
um is where it's at right now, who would have
thought little tiny Maine with houses, you know, 100 $200,000
less than a decade ago is a booming international metropolis.
Um Just south of the Canadian border.
I'm a lot south from the Canadian border. Let's get
that straight. It's like a day to get the Canadian
(26:42):
border from where I live.
There people go where, where is Maine then? Maybe that's
New Hampshire. I think they don't know where New Hampshire is,
but I think that everybody knows, look, Maine has a
um It's like Hawaii, when you say the word Maine,
people have a visual of what that look looks like
everything from a Moose to the mountains, to the snow,
snow cap ski resorts. Um So the brand itself is
(27:03):
very strong,
very strong. And who would have known when we started
moving to Maine would be as big as it is today?
I know. I know somebody owes you something. I don't
know what it is but somebody owes you something. Well,
I don't know. But I think, I think, I think
my boss and I would say this to his face because,
you know, I would made a big mistake letting that go. Yes. Yes. Yes.
(27:24):
I know. I know. I hope he's hope he's listening
and I'm gonna tell him again when I see him. Right. It's, well, look,
you know, it's um patience. I think that's one of
the things that you
uh when I started looking at real estate in the
industry and how I can make an impact. Um Gary
Samuel was uh the first um person. Um and that,
(27:45):
that said, look, you know, come to my meetings, understand
what these folks are going through, what the industry is
about and what it takes to be a real estate agent.
And right now agents and the idea of what you
guys provide to the community,
um is it, you know, it is being challenged and
will always, when you're doing great things, people always challenge
(28:05):
uh your value and your worth. But I can tell
you after sitting in the meetings and I've never been
in that industry. Um I've come from clothing and background,
I've worked at staples. I worked at Victoria's Secret. I've
worked for footwear and I've never been in the real
estate industry but seeing what your team has to do
in a day
basis, some of the safety risk of meeting people, they
don't know. Um, finance, you have to be a financial advisor,
(28:28):
a psychologist, um, a AAA, a AAA home stager cleaning
property up. I've heard you and Brian talk about going
in and cleaning properties up and getting dumpsters just to
get things sold, right? So you have to be really
well rounded and patient.
Um, and we do and we have to get smart
and hire people like you because my top producers are
(28:51):
all the ones that you are working with, um, to
make them successful. So, um, you know, one thing about
the real estate business, the successful people are the people
that aren't afraid to spend money to make their business work,
they become very successful and the people that put some
money into you to help them, help you, help them
get stronger have really made a big difference here in
(29:12):
the state of Maine,
uh for my agents that work here, we're happy to it,
but it is definitely not. Um, you know, it's not
ATM you, you can't market yourself for two days and
think you're gonna get a high return that happens with nothing. It's,
it's a marathon. Um,
and I invested, um in my time in trying to
help agents and you were wonderful in helping me navigate
(29:33):
that process. So I thank you and happy birthday, sir. Oh,
thank you very much. Always great talking with you and
I look forward to seeing you soon. Same here, Gary.
Thank you guys. Take care, talk to you later. Thanks.
Bye bye.
Live from the hottest real estate market in America, Tampa Bay, Florida.
This is the real estate leads podcast with the CEO
and founder of the Olga system. Your host, Lisa Carter.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Oh, man. So the county numbers are in um and
there is 34,000 people
between 2020 2022
that moved to Maine and the winner is Cumberland County.
But all counties experience some sort of migration, domestic folks
from other states and some international. So we have today
(01:02):
the expert on Maine and
a great friend of mine, Gary Sama who's been in
the state for a very long time as a business
owner and knows the market and I want to call
him G because I'm from New Jersey and that's what
we call Gary's in New Jersey Gas. So, G how
are you? Thank you for coming on the show today. Oh,
I'm fantastic. It's a whopping 22 degrees in Maine today.
(01:26):
So it's beautiful out there, but the sun's shining. So
you have shorts on and a sweatshirt
that's normal, that's normal winter weather. How cold does it
have to be before you put pants on? Uh, at
least at least keep it above zero. Ok. So, so
it is a very, uh, season, a very cold place
(01:47):
for a very long time. The season is winter is
a very long season. It's a DNA of the state.
So why with 34,000 people move to Maine in the
last couple of years?
Well, I think, I think affordability is, is one Maine
is probably right now, um, a affordable state and as
(02:08):
well as a nice state to be in, I mean,
there's some other states that are affordable but probably not
as nice as Maine and you have lakes and oceans
and mountains. Um, to be here, I mean, it's just
a very, very peaceful, wonderful place to uh to be
living in. Speaking of which, how long have you lived there?
I've been here for 45 years, like I came here
(02:30):
45 years ago when my son was four days old
and our plan was to be here a couple of
years and here we are 45 years later and we
don't believe we're gonna be moving very soon. Well, if you,
if you can't, because if someone will take your spot,
it's like, you know, as soon as you move from Maine,
there's like 10 other people that want your house, they
(02:52):
want your boat, they want your land.
It's like crazy. But you mentioned, I think a lot
of people don't know that. Although yes, there is a
long season of winter, um, and, and fall. So it's
a gorgeous place and you can be in the mountains
or you can be in the ocean and is it
just an hour or two? Gary? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah,
(03:15):
you could be, you know, you could be up in, uh,
Sugarloaf and then an hour and a half later you
could be out on the, uh, on the waters of
northern Maine.
So that, that's awesome. So I think what I'm seeing
is a lot of people from the West coast finding
uh a very similar terrain. Like if you think about California,
you can be, you know, an hour away from the
(03:35):
beach or from the mountains. So where are you seeing?
I said 35,000 people. Cumberland County. Um You wanna talk
about that a little bit why Cumberland County seeing such
a increase and then the internet, it's becoming an international county, 10%
of it, of that number was international uh migrants.
Well, I think a lot of it has to do
(03:56):
with the city of Portland. Um the city of Portland,
which is really the uh the, the center of Cumberland
County or at least the uh metropolis of uh Cumberland County.
Um It's just such a beautiful small uh safe city
to be in and you could be in surrounding beautiful
surrounding towns like, you know, Falmouth and Yarmouth and Cumberland.
(04:20):
Um and still be uh Uber away from being in
downtown Portland or the old port section of Portland. Uh
Portland
was at one time. I don't know if it still
is or not. Uh The Mecca of um of craft
beers were more micro breweries popping up into the city
(04:41):
of Portland than anywhere else. I know it's caught on
in a lot of other places. Uh But there were
all kinds of them in Portland and it was like
really the birthing area of micro breweries.
So I think a lot of people like that type
of atmosphere and they like the uh the the parts
of uh Portland uh that are just a nice city
(05:01):
to uh to be in and, and it's still an
affordable city compared to like Manhattan and some other places.
I mean, you
be having affordable housing uh and being and being in
a city and be able to just walk in. It's
a city you don't need a car. And if you,
if you didn't need your car to go anywhere, you
don't need your car to go around Portland, you can
get around Portland very easily without a vehicle. So uh
(05:23):
Portland's a nice walkable town. That's correct. It's very, very
walkable and
um beautiful sections of the city that have been uh
been really uh renovated and gentrified and just looking uh
looking wonderful, uh especially up in the west end and
Mundo Hill area are just fantastic places to live.
(05:44):
So I talked about the number of people that have
migrated um, from across the country and, um, both internationally
type of people. So, retirees is this still, you know,
I used to think of Maine as a place that you,
you know, the model is vacation land. You think of
a place where you just kind of go and you
slow down, you know, the, uh, your life, but you
(06:04):
just talked about a walkable vibrant downtown, like Portland, um,
are retirees still coming to the state?
I don't think there's as many retirees coming into the state. It's,
it's not a very uh retirement friendly state uh for
tax purposes. Um So I, I don't, I think it's
more um the younger crowd is, is really migrating this way,
(06:30):
especially with uh working from home. COVID really helped Maine
uh because when it's affordable to people were working from home.
So they, they didn't have to be in these expensive
areas to be able to, to live and work. They
could just work from home and they could still have
the feel of living in a city. A lot of
people moved
north from Manhattan once COVID hit because they could, and
(06:54):
they could cut their, their living costs down by 20
or 30%.
Uh So that made a big difference and still worked
the same job, made the same amount of money and
was able to basically live in a city life which they,
which they enjoyed living in Manhattan. Uh no match to
Manhattan as far as size wise and things like that.
But still, it's uh a lot of theaters are out here.
(07:15):
A lot of uh a lot of restaurants, you know,
the old port section is loaded with restaurants and
various types of drinking places and, and partying places. It's
just a, just a fun little city. It is very
vibrant and you mentioned um the amount of breweries um
that are, are in Portland, some really great brands have
(07:36):
been launched um out of that uh Cumberland County, that
Portland area.
Um and, and that's been going on for quite a while.
That that hasn't changed, but there's, there's give me some
other things that may have changed over the years now.
One of the things I know are the laws on
cannabis um and how that has really uh created another
industry um in the state and business is coming there
(07:59):
um to be a part of that uh industry. Can
you talk a little bit about how um the legalization
of cannabis um has affected the state economy?
Well, I think it's helped it out quite a bit.
I uh I don't really know a lot about it.
I I'm sorry to say, but I know that in
my area, I'm in New York County. Um I know
(08:20):
that some of the surrounding towns that are, but in
New Hampshire
have cannabis sales places going up like it's like corner
corner stores, I mean, they're just everywhere I think between uh,
town of Sanford and going into Lebanon before you get
into Rochester. Uh, there must be six or seven cannabis different, uh, places,
(08:41):
some recreational, some medical. Uh, but they're, they're really just
growing up like, uh, you know, unbelievably quick through the
area
the city I live in is very controlled. It's very
controlled and they don't, they only allowed so many licenses and,
and that's it. But there's
quite a few of them out there. Um You know,
(09:01):
by where our office is in Ky, I mean, there's a,
there's a, there's a handful of them, right, in a
small little community of Ky and Elliott. Um that's just,
you know, there's no restrictions out in that area, but
uh Sanford held a restriction, I think they only allowed
six total of six licenses in the state,
right? I think in other counties where there's a little
(09:22):
bit more um agricultural uh based um industry, you may
find some of, some of the restrictions in uh in
um a little bit more lax. And also, you know,
there's different levels, I guess, you know, you can be
retail or you can be agricultural. Um the, the other
industry that's come up besides cannabis is tech, like I'm
hearing so much about uh particularly Portland Cumberland County being
(09:45):
a tech hub um
where businesses are coming in like crazy and building um
a nice uh industry, robust industry jobs and how there's
four and maybe that's why we're seeing those in um
migration of young people that are coming to the state.
I think it has a lot to do with it.
I think, um, you know, Portland want, I know Portland
(10:07):
wants to be the tech industry of the, of, of
the northeast. Um And again, I think it goes back
to um affordability and tax benefits that uh the city
and the state will offer for that type of pro
uh that type of business to move into the uh
into the state. So it makes uh it, it, it
(10:28):
really is pretty inviting
um to that. Uh you know, and, and you know, the,
the highway runs right through the middle of the state.
So it's easy like in Portland to jump on the
highway and be in Boston if you wanted to be
in Boston in a, in an hour and a half drive, which,
which isn't a long drive at all and you could
(10:48):
be at the airport and you can take off the
BBB or you can be in downtown in downtown Boston
in an hour and a half. So,
and they, and they have a, and the other thing
they have is they have a high speed train. Uh
The commuter train that goes from uh goes from Brunswick
to uh to Boston and it's a high speed. So,
(11:09):
you know, so if you didn't want to drive, you
could leave Wells Maine where, where it would be my
stop and be in Boston and the same time it
would take me to drive and a lot of people
use that train, um, going down to Boston along the, um,
uh, and through both through the Maine and, and New Hampshire.
Um So you're absolutely right about that. There are quite
(11:31):
a few people that take, uh, that high speed train
right down to, to Boston. They only have to come
into work a couple days a week. Like you said,
they'll hop on the train. It's nice. They get their
work done. Um, and they're able to have affordable, more affordable, uh,
lifestyle up in Maine.
Yeah, and they can, and they can work while they're
on the, on the, on the train, which is, you
can't do while you're driving unless you're like me and
(11:53):
you talk on the phone all day long. But I mean,
you go and you work on your computer, you just
do that whole hour and a half ride. You get
on the train, you can be working and then on
the way home the same way. So you don't lose
any time whatsoever by being on the train.
So I mentioned affordable lifestyle. You, um, happen to be in, in,
in the real estate industry. We talked about a couple
(12:14):
of other industries. Um, how long, um, tell me a
little bit about how you got into real estate and,
and what you're doing today. Um, in terms of the
state of Maine how long you've been licensed? What are
you doing? And, and we'll talk about the housing industry
because that's really important to everyone right now.
Well, in 1988 I was a business administrator for a
(12:34):
school district here in Stanford. Um, and a friend of
mine wanted to run for State Senator and he needed
to sell his business. And I thought, well, this is
a great investment. I'll just buy a real estate company.
And I did, I wasn't licensed, I wasn't licensed. Um,
I enjoyed real estate. I was actually one of his,
one of his top clients. I would be buying apartment
(12:55):
buildings or houses or whatever I needed. Um, and so
I was like one of his top business people. And so, um,
he came to me and I see I'll buy a
company and then quickly learned I had to have a
license really to even do anything.
So in 1988 I got licensed as a real estate agent.
Um, back then, it was a little easier than it
(13:16):
is today and I could be a broker's license, be
a broker quicker because I had an MB A. Uh,
so I didn't have to wait for five years to
become a broker. So I through that pretty quickly, it
was back then. It's not now, back then you can,
you can walk in with a degree and say, hey,
throw me a broker's license
and I was a little independent and uh, you know, had,
(13:39):
had a nice little business going, then the downturn came
of the nineties, early nineties, um, and an opportunity came
to buy a century 21 franchise.
Um, so I bought it in, uh, 1993.
Um, and that's when my company just started to take
off and, and, uh, made a big difference to my
(14:02):
lifestyle and my, and, and my income and, and it
became very, very profitable and very good. And, um, you know,
I had a good, I was in it for a
long time. 30 some odd, 30 years. Anyway. I had
a good friend of mine, uh, who, you know, uh,
was on my case for a long time to sell
my company because he wanted to come to Maine but
didn't want to step on my toes.
(14:23):
Um, finally convinced me to sell my company to him
and that was seven years ago and I'm still working
for him. It's not that long. I'm, I'm, I'm glad
you're still in the game. Yeah, I'm still in the game. But, uh,
I will tell you today I turned 70 today is
your birthday, today is out of here.
(14:47):
Yeah. November 13th. Happy birthday to you. That's awesome. Had
no idea. So, I probably have another year left into me.
Maybe stop it. We'll stop it. We have to go.
I have a lot of pressure from home to maybe
think about retiring, but I don't know about that, but
(15:09):
we'll have to wait and see what happens.
So you mentioned, you know, there's a lot of chaos
in the market going on right now. Um And you
mentioned that there was uh you saw, actually you started
your business because of a chaotic market because everything is
cyclical people. Um And, and uh we've been here a
different story but, you know, a similar page or a
(15:30):
different story. Um And you built your business during a
time where it was very chaotic, but you seized an opportunity.
Um And so that says a lot about you can,
you can you talk about uh this the,
the chaos right now with interest rates and um how
you are navigating. You're still part of an organization. Uh you,
(15:51):
you lend your expertise every day to new and seasoned
uh real estate agents. What are you telling your team
today about, you know, as they start to really get,
uh they were having a hard time, inventory is low
and um interest rates are high.
Well, you know, interest rates,
I don't see really playing that big of a role
(16:12):
as far as the buying side goes.
Um the interest rate for buyers, they, they, they want
a house, there's a lot of pent up demand and,
and they want a house and they don't look at
the interest rate as an issue uh other than what
they can afford, and it has changed affordability to some people.
(16:32):
But the biggest problems coming in the real estate market
right now is that people that have, that are probably
prime to sell their property. And if they have a
mortgage on it and wherever they're moving to, needs to
be mortgaged, that's where the issue comes because they're probably
sitting on a 2.5 or 3% or 3.5% mortgage right now.
(16:53):
And if they sell their house, even though they'd be
able to make a substantial profit on it,
um, they're gonna end up having to buy a house,
they end up with an eight or 8.5% mortgage. Um,
and that's where the dilemma is coming right now in
the real estate market is that we can't get people
to list their houses because houses that get listed, um, sell,
(17:15):
there's no question about it. They're selling, they're really not
much lag time unless they're well overpriced. And there's some
of those in the market because they think it can be. Um,
and it usually takes a little while for that to
catch up.
But if you place the house correctly,
um, it, it's going to sell and it's going to
sell within, within seven days. Um, and so to me
(17:39):
that's still a wonderful market and you just gotta, you know, you,
you have to price it to sell it. You don't
have to, you know, can't price it anymore for what
it could be because, um, you just got to price
it for what you think the value is worth. And
that's the biggest thing. I tell my people, I tell
my people to go out there and get listings, get
(17:59):
listings
because if you get the listings and you get it
priced right, you are gonna be uh very happy with
your paycheck at the end of every month. So I
really think that's the thing that the name of the
game is listings. It always has been and always will
be listings, getting, getting listings. Um Just to put the
scenario you said is the, the biggest challenge. Um in perspective, 32%
(18:23):
of the mortgages out there right now are under
3%.
Yeah, so that, that there's a challenge um for getting
the listings. But you and I both know that there
are motivated sellers right now in the marketplace for many
different reasons. There, there are there, they're all and, and
(18:44):
uh Maine is uh one of the oldest, you know,
states in the commonwealth here. And, and so un unfortunately,
you know, people,
all the people have to sell their houses at some
point in time because they've gotta go somewhere else and
they don't like where they're going, but they need the
money to go somewhere else. And so those houses are
(19:05):
gonna be on the market and they're gonna be sold.
Um But, you know, they're, they're just, and there's people
just waiting to come in here and and try to
scoop those up. I mean, um, you know, I, I
had a house in, in Springville that we put on
the market and, you know, six days later it, it
was under contract
with very little contingencies and, uh, you know, with the
(19:28):
top of Sanford's market, you know, $465,000 in Sanford, it's
not a normal market in Sanford, you know, normal, normal
sales at Sanford used to be somewhere around 275. I
remember those days, I remember those days we're seeing your
listings at 210, 2 25 2 45. Yeah, we used
to have to sell twice as many houses as most
(19:50):
people in order to be equal with them
and, and now it's, you know, I mean to, to
have that house gone and gone in seven days. Um
You know, it's, it's not, it's, it's, it's just a
still a, it's still a great market for, for sellers
if they have to sell the house or want to
sell their house. Um but it's the ones that are,
like you said, the 30% of the people that
(20:12):
probably would like to sell their house because they're ready
to move to something bigger or something different or closer
to the water or whatever, but I ain't gonna give
up that mortgage rate. No, no, it's sorry. I I
I've been talking about, you know, there's life uh and
milestones in life like you said aging is one of
them death, divorce and taxes is what I tell agents about. Um,
(20:34):
those are people that can't wait for the m the
rates to go down next year.
Um And you know, in between trying to hold on
to your home, there's things that happen, you know, people
get sick, people get divorced, um people ex expire and so, and,
and uh we have utilities and taxes that a lot
of our older population with inflation cannot absorb. So you're
absolutely right. There are still motivated sellers out there and
(20:56):
if you can get a listing, that's great. So that's
the seller. So if I'm a buyer moving to Maine,
should I gary, do you, in your opinion, should I
buy land or should I buy, looking, be looking for
a home?
I think you're still, your best deals are still existing homes.
Um The, the adjustment has not been made yet in
the cons in the construction world uh to make that
(21:19):
new home affordable enough for people to be able to,
to build their house that they want in Maine. Um
You know, the the materials although should be coming down
more and they're not coming down fast enough.
And the tradespeople are so used to making the money
that they're making, they're not prepared to come down yet.
(21:40):
So I think it's the balance is off um as
far as new construction just yet. And uh
I think it a few things gonna have to happen.
Um The price of existing homes need to stay up
so that they're comparable to a new construction. Um And
if that happens, then, then I think we'll see more
(22:01):
new construction going.
Uh You know, a good, really good friend of mine
is in the, in the development business and he stopped
this development. He's not doing anything with it. Oh, you're kidding.
He's just decided to hold tight and not really to
build right now. Um You know, his, his construction world is,
is here in Sanford and new construction houses in Sanford
(22:23):
are well over, you know, well over the 450 for
almost in the, over the 500 mark. Um and Sanford
can't absorb that right now.
So they're, the construction costs are ca causing him to
hold and a bunch of other builders. Now, money is expensive.
Um When you're talking about financing your construction costs, that
labor is expensive in the northeast, you mentioned that the,
(22:45):
the trades guides, they, they're not taking a discount on
their services. Yeah. And, and the regulations are causing certain
things to have to be done that are, you know,
they think they sound like they're small things but, you know,
like to, to Sprinkle a home now that you're gonna
have to Sprinkle a brand new construction home unless you're
on city water and, and there's very little lots of
(23:05):
development area where you're on city water here in Sanford,
you know, it, it's another like 13 $14,000 added to
the construction of a home.
Um So it, it, you know, you start adding those
things from regulation world. It's just starting to drive new
construction out where you can buy an existing home.
You know, even if it's five years old, um you know,
(23:28):
a lot less than you are if you built that
house today. Uh Prime exam, prime example, we have the
little subdivision out behind our office in Sanford. We built
41 houses back here. Um It's probably been 15 years
now since the last house. So we started selling those
houses at $100,000. The highest house was like 225 I
(23:48):
think is what we sold. The last one for
now those houses are going for, you know, 375 and 4425.
And ie we can't, we can't build those houses for 425.
They're well over that amount of money. So, you know,
and so you got a fairly new house sitting out
there where you can buy a lot less than a
(24:10):
um then a new construction. So if you have to
put a little bit of money into it to, to,
you know, redo the flooring and paint and paper or whatever,
uh you can do that and still be well under
the cost of the new house. So I think the
new construction houses are gonna be a little bit stagnant
and that's why I don't think land is that good
of a deal right now.
Wow. So the existing homes, um there's plenty of uh
(24:33):
real estate agents that um work on Gary's team. Um
that can, that can help navigate that, that process. Um
If you're look Maine's hot right now, um The word
is getting out if you're um a real estate agent.
Um And you're licensed somewhere else. How easy is it
to um is it reciprocity with Maine? There's states that
(24:54):
have reciprocity with Maine,
most states do have reciprocity. All you have to do
is pass the law section of Maine in order to
get a license and you could take a law refresher
class here. You can take it online, you could take
it at home study. Uh You don't have to take it,
you can just get the book and, and if you're
a good learner, just be able to, to learn and,
(25:15):
and pass the test. If you pass the test in
your license, you're in a state of Maine.
Um You know, and that's, it's pretty simple retros to
be licensed in the state of Maine.
Wow, that's awesome. So there's opportunity for everyone, there's opportunity
for those that are moving there. Um for various industries,
the real estate industry is hot in Maine. Um If,
if agents wanna uh get, get at um being a
(25:38):
licensed realtor in Maine, it sounds like it's uh uh
uh it's uh the return on the investment. Sounds like it's,
it's pretty, it's really nice. Um
And look, the state has a lot of natural resources,
a lot of outdoor. Um If you're not an outdoor person,
um there's a lot of indoor things to get at.
We are, um we, we are the community moderators for
(25:58):
a page called moving to main page. Um Gary was
AAA great uh influencer of that uh group Gary. We're
up to 13, 14,000 people. Um Your teams in there
interacting every day
um with the, with, with the folks and we're seeing everything.
Um every people from California, we're seeing people from Europe
come in the page asking questions. So moving to Maine
(26:21):
um is where it's at right now, who would have
thought little tiny Maine with houses, you know, 100 $200,000
less than a decade ago is a booming international metropolis.
Um Just south of the Canadian border.
I'm a lot south from the Canadian border. Let's get
that straight. It's like a day to get the Canadian
(26:42):
border from where I live.
There people go where, where is Maine then? Maybe that's
New Hampshire. I think they don't know where New Hampshire is,
but I think that everybody knows, look, Maine has a
um It's like Hawaii, when you say the word Maine,
people have a visual of what that look looks like
everything from a Moose to the mountains, to the snow,
snow cap ski resorts. Um So the brand itself is
(27:03):
very strong,
very strong. And who would have known when we started
moving to Maine would be as big as it is today?
I know. I know somebody owes you something. I don't
know what it is but somebody owes you something. Well,
I don't know. But I think, I think, I think
my boss and I would say this to his face because,
you know, I would made a big mistake letting that go. Yes. Yes. Yes.
(27:24):
I know. I know. I hope he's hope he's listening
and I'm gonna tell him again when I see him. Right. It's, well, look,
you know, it's um patience. I think that's one of
the things that you
uh when I started looking at real estate in the
industry and how I can make an impact. Um Gary
Samuel was uh the first um person. Um and that,
(27:45):
that said, look, you know, come to my meetings, understand
what these folks are going through, what the industry is
about and what it takes to be a real estate agent.
And right now agents and the idea of what you
guys provide to the community,
um is it, you know, it is being challenged and
will always, when you're doing great things, people always challenge
(28:05):
uh your value and your worth. But I can tell
you after sitting in the meetings and I've never been
in that industry. Um I've come from clothing and background,
I've worked at staples. I worked at Victoria's Secret. I've
worked for footwear and I've never been in the real
estate industry but seeing what your team has to do
in a day
basis, some of the safety risk of meeting people, they
don't know. Um, finance, you have to be a financial advisor,
(28:28):
a psychologist, um, a AAA, a AAA home stager cleaning
property up. I've heard you and Brian talk about going
in and cleaning properties up and getting dumpsters just to
get things sold, right? So you have to be really
well rounded and patient.
Um, and we do and we have to get smart
and hire people like you because my top producers are
(28:51):
all the ones that you are working with, um, to
make them successful. So, um, you know, one thing about
the real estate business, the successful people are the people
that aren't afraid to spend money to make their business work,
they become very successful and the people that put some
money into you to help them, help you, help them
get stronger have really made a big difference here in
(29:12):
the state of Maine,
uh for my agents that work here, we're happy to it,
but it is definitely not. Um, you know, it's not
ATM you, you can't market yourself for two days and
think you're gonna get a high return that happens with nothing. It's,
it's a marathon. Um,
and I invested, um in my time in trying to
help agents and you were wonderful in helping me navigate
(29:33):
that process. So I thank you and happy birthday, sir. Oh,
thank you very much. Always great talking with you and
I look forward to seeing you soon. Same here, Gary.
Thank you guys. Take care, talk to you later. Thanks.
Bye bye.
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