December 22, 2025 • 58 mins
This summer we're curating your 456 playlist listening to bring you some of our favourite interviews from MID and No Filter.
Madeleine West has lived many lives— from Neighbours’ Dee Bliss to Underbelly’s Danielle McGuire, she’s been a fixture on Australian screens for decades.
Beyond acting, she’s also an advocate, a survivor, and now, at 47, she’s stepping into a surprising new chapter... motherhood for the seventh time.
What she first thought was menopause turned out to be an unexpected pregnancy, something that took time to embrace. But that’s not the only battle Madeleine has faced. Just a few years ago, she made the courageous decision to help police uncover a pedophile—the man who abused her as a child.
In this deeply personal and powerful conversation, Madeleine opens up about:
- How she came to terms with becoming a mother again at 47
- The media storm that forced her to announce her pregnancy before she was ready
- The darkness she had to push through to become the woman she is today
- The moment she wore a wire to confront her abuser
This is a story of survival, strength, and reclaiming your own narrative - no matter how impossible it may seem.
If you or anyone you know needs support, call Lifeline on 131 114 or Beyond Blue on 1300 224 636.
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CREDITS:
Host: Kate Langbroek
Guest: Madeleine West
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Grace Rouvray
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We
have recorded this podcast on the Gatagoul people of the
Eur Nation. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hence why I feel hi.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It's preplayer here. I'm the executive producer of Australia's number
one interview podcast, No Filter, and this summer we're curating
your restart playlist, giving you our top No Filter episodes.
Right here, it's your summer listening sorted. We're bringing you
riveting stories and fascinating lives with our host Kate lane
Brook right here into your podcast speed and if you're
(01:03):
looking for more to listen to, every Muma mea podcast
is curating your summer listening right across our network, from
pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews. There's something for everyone.
There's a link in show notes.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Are so grateful to be precisely where I am now,
this little miracle who was clearly, spite all the odds,
absolutely destined to be. I certainly hope the majority of
those demons had plagued me earlier on are put to rest.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Waiting for a pregnancy test result can bring on a
whirlwind of emotions excitement, anxiety, anticipation, dread. But for Madeline West,
seeing a positive test at forty seven wasn't just surprising,
it was completely and utterly shocking, because at first she
(02:05):
thought that she was in perimenopause. She even asked her
doctor if a positive pregnancy test could be a symptom,
but no, she was in fact expecting her seventh child,
and when we spoke, she was just two weeks away
from giving birth. In this conversation, Madeleine is the epitome
of no filter, unflinchingly honest and deeply reflective. She shares
(02:31):
how she's really feeling, how the media expects her to
feel about the poetically named geriatric pregnancy, and why she's
choosing to embrace this unexpected twist in her story. But
more than that, Madeline West opens up about something far
more profound, her experience of childhood sexual abuse, a secret
(02:54):
she had hidden from the world and from herself for
almost forty years. She speaks about the moment she knew
she was ready to confront her abuser and the valiance
that it took to bring him to justice. Now, as
she prepares to welcome another baby, Madeleine describes her life
(03:15):
as a jigsaw puzzle, one that's been scattered, rebuilt, and
reshaped j over time, and after years of healing and
self discovery, she finally feels like the last piece is
falling into place. But before we get there, I just
want to let you know that this conversation through necessity
(03:37):
does include very candid discussion of the abuse that Madeleine survived.
So please this and mindfully. And here is Madeline West.
Madeline West, beautiful of face, extraordinary of soul. We will
get to that later. Welcome to no filth.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
I feel like, on the basis of that welcome, I
wish I was in the room with you.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I've even brought I've brought snacks.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
With me because you just can't come between a pregnant
woman and a snack. So I wish I was in
the room. Wis the cape well?
Speaker 6 (04:16):
So you are pregnant?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
The duff well and truly.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
A barn in the oven? All of that this needs
a drum roll. Seventh, child, you are forty five.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I'm forty seven.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Oh you're forty seven. It's just.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Are you laughing because it's just getting worse? O. B.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Well, it's just I actually I actually love it. I
love it. I'm happy it's not me. I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
It's so funny to say that, Kate. All my girlfriends
are saying the same thing. They're like, I can't wait
to hold a baby, just don't want to carry one
in one undercarriage, which.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Is all right. So I've just made a mistake that
I imagine is happening a lot. The first thing when
someone's pregnant. Congratulations, congratulations, Madaline, We congratulations. But because it's
so extraordinary, is that getting a little bit lost in
(05:26):
the mix, in the mix of the astonished sho so
that the first reaction is always shocked.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
My first reaction was shocked and disbelief.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
So I certainly can't judge anyone else for having a
similar reaction to it. But what I will say, and
what I have discovered, is that I am far from alone. Statistically,
teen pregnancies are on a sharp decline. Pregnancies in their
forties are on the rise, and particularly over forty four,
(06:01):
which is quite surprising. It's quadrupled in the last twenty years,
how many women in their latter forties are now going
on to have babies. So I understand that there is
it's certainly not helped by the geriatric pregnancy label.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That you get slashed with from thirty five.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I'm like, should I go babies fun things and buy
a PRAM or should I go and get a zimmer Frame.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
I'm not quite sure they should do doubles the mission.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I think they should a little package, our geriatric package.
But what I have discovered, and I was very slow
to I really didn't want to initially air where I
was and what was happening in my life. I've become
increasingly private as I've gotten older.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And listen, you've moved to Bayn and I moved to Byron.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
And it was my hand was kind of forced because
I was informed by a media agency that there was
awareness that I was pregnant. And that came about not
because I'd rocked up to Melbourne Fashion Week or something
in alycra Frock. It was because I was actually presenting
at Parliament and trying to push through legislation to amper
(07:11):
protections around child safety, and I was just spotted by
a journalist who of course went back to the office
told everyone, they told everyone they knew. I found find
out that I was being followed by perhaps trying to
get that first photo. So I thought, well, I'm going
to as much as I don't want to, I'm going
to speak out about this on my terms. And the
most wonderful flow on effect of that was I had
(07:34):
over a thousand responses from other women who had or
were having babies in their forties saying, I thought I
was the only one.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I thought I was the only one who was.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Going to rock up to play group and everyone would
think I was grandma. I thought I was the only
one who at first day of school I'd be mingling
with mothers and fathers who are half my age.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
But quite the reverse is true.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
So it's really I'm actually quite gratified to have illuminated
or shone a spotlight on this particular group of men
and women who are delving into parenting later in life
and thought that they were alone.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
And also I find it kind of hopeful because the
one thing that we know about nature is that nature
can be cruel, particularly when it comes to issues of fertility.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yes, it most definitely can.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
And you thought that you were perimenopausal, and you thought
that's why you were having these strange cycles.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
See as soon as like that, oh hang on, my
monthly's disappeared. Oh wow, I must have just hot footed
it right through the perimenopause phase and I've gone straight
to menopause. But then I got a couple of other
symptoms that I recognized but did not quite fit with
the narrative around menopause, which thankfully is finally getting so
(08:55):
much traction in the media and just amongst society itself.
Were finally having meaningful conversations about perimenopause and menopause. But
my symptoms didn't quite correlate with any of that. I
wasn't getting hot flushes. I was certainly rageful, but I'm
a mum of six. Of course I'm rageful. Am I
(09:16):
not rageful? And I did the little just thought, you know, oh,
let's just let's just get this out of the way,
and let's just do a little way on a stick.
And two lines popped up, and I'll be honest with you, Kate,
My first thought was, maybe this is a symptom of
many pause that no one's heard about you.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Maybe because all your hormones are going all over. Maybe
this is what happens.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
So I had a little check up with the doctor
and he said, no, you are most definitely geriatrically up
the dust and here we are okay.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
So because you now live in Byron, so this would
not have been the same doctor that you had through
your other six pregnancies. Or are you you have the twins.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
That I came, went and saw, had a room full
of dream catches and healing crystals and well, I'm just
crying me a good hard staging.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
No, but you have to explain yourself to a new
is shocks.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
You have to go through everything.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
And I am someone who prides myself on keeping really
healthy both.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Mentally and physically.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
That's become a priority for me, especially particularly in the
last five years, because I've gone through quite a few things,
and so that became an absolute priority to shore up
my physical and mental health. And that is what I
have been doing. So I'm not a frequent visitor to
a doctor's office, but I did. Yes, I found I
(10:40):
have got a lovely GP who went and saw and
his eyebrows went through the roof when we got the
positive result as well. But again he reiterated that as
much as this is inverted comma's higher risk, it's also
not uncommon. And that's what I discovered when I opened
up finally and starting having conversations with my core beautiful
(11:04):
group of friends, that many of them had found themselves
in my shoes and had either decided to proceed or
not proceed. But this was not completely I wasn't an anomaly.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Well. I also had babies in my frie yes, and
I also had caesareans, And I know when I had
to go back to the doctor the fourth time that
I was accidentally pregnant. I love that these are two
grown up.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
We have actually, and it's a great title for a book, accidentally.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
But they were like, they don't like to do caesareans
past three cesareans. I was going for four. You're presumably
going to have, yes, so I won't let you go
natural now.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Will that? No?
Speaker 5 (11:50):
No, no, have an American emergency caesar because I'm quite
small and my babies are generally quite big, so.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
Bigger than bigger than you would like exactly.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
I do have a really lovely doctor who is allowing
me to go into labor, yes, which is lovely because
it means that some of those issues that little ones
face when they are born by a cesarean section that
can be some issues with lungs and issues with the
milk come in. Sorry, too much information, but we're going
(12:23):
down that path. So let's deep dive deep obviated.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
It's no filter, mad Oh, that's right, said, it's no filter.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
I've got a wonderful obstetrician who will let me go
into labor and then we'll pop in and zip the
little one out.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Okay, So when you've seen your doctor, you get the
news that you are pregnant. Yes, how long ago was this?
By the way, how deep are you in?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I've got about two and a half weeks al yes,
and this is officially the last thing I'm going to
do that requires my brain to function. I've just sat
like I drew a line in the set. I said,
I'm going to have my chat to Kate and I'm
doing nothing else.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
So when you get that news, who is the first
person that you take?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Um?
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
And where is mask?
Speaker 5 (13:15):
So Mum's down in Victoria, so she's a little bit
of a distance and she's actually going to be my
birth partner, in which I love. I think that's a
very strong, almost tribal connection. Yes, and this is I'm
going on a tight segue, So please hold that question
in your head, Cake, because I know I'll go off
(13:36):
on a tangent and I'll completely forget, forget what we're
talking about. But I've just read the most amazing book
called Eve by Cat Bohannon. I'd recommend it to anyone
to read, and it explains how the female body has
driven evolution for the last two hundred million years, and
it gives the most precise scientific explanation for why we
(13:58):
enter menopause. We, apart from killer whales, are the only
creatures on the planet that experience menopause, and men certainly
don't experience it, so it's specific to the female body.
And it was a precise choice that we biologically, genealogically
made in our history of evolution as we branched off
(14:18):
from some of our primate predecessor to experience menopause so
that women could lead.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
And in part the wisdom is this is this week
because I have heard this, but I didn't know.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
That was the genes And it's absolutely brilliant and it's
been been quantified by numerous scientific studies that demonstrate that
like killer whales, we are the ones who say, this
is what you do in a drought, this is what
you do in a famine. You need to blanch those
vegetables to get the toxins out. And mothers are designed
(14:52):
to birth their grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They've got this wealth of knowledge.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
And Western society is very good at dismissing our elderly
as yes, somehow a little bit decrepit.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
Us geriatric, we're out there.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
In the field, now, let them go and graze.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
But the sheer wealth of instinctive knowledge that our older
generations of women have is mind boggling. So it feels
very symbolic and very right that it is my mum
there who will bring this new little one.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
What did she say? What did she say when you
told her you were on the phone, She dissuming.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
Oh, and this is a very frequent response, I've gotten
it's just going to be so hard, And I thought
of pauled.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
So she forgot to say congratulations exactly.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
And then of course it warms up to congratulations, and
over the weeks and the days and the weeks and
the months that follows, it becomes overwhelmingly positive the response.
But her first concern is it's going to be so
hard because you've already got so much going on. And
I stepped back for a moment and went, well, I
think as I've grown older and hopefully wiser, I've come
(16:11):
to choose my heart because life is hard.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Everything about life is hard.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
We've got all got so many pressures on our shows.
And yes, there's so many things I want to do
with my life, but I don't for a moment believe
the presence of this precious little miracle in my life
is going to stop me doing what I want to do.
If anything, it's going to push me harder to do
what I want to do to make the world a
(16:39):
better place, a safer place.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Coming up after the break, I asked Madeline how she
processed the news of her pregnancy at forty seven years old,
and whether she considered all the possible options stay with us.
Was there a moment where you thought maybe I won't
(17:09):
proceed with this.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
No, No, because initially I thought it was menopause.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I found out a little bit later that most do.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
And my body knows this is number seven precisely, where
that little cluster of cells is at every stage, and
from I am all for everyone having everyone and everyone
having choice and facilities to exercise that choice. But for me,
(17:47):
this was a little This was a little human being
who was going to change the world from the moment
that I found out that I was pregnant, and that
has not changed.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
You know, you said life is hard, and I know
a lot of people say that as epithets. You know,
politicians love to talk about people doing it tough, as
though they've had nothing to do with the fact that
people in that class. But do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I can't quite join the dots.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Yeah, exactly right. But when you say life is hard,
you have a much more acute understanding of that than
most people.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
I do now because I can actually look back retrospectively
as some of the things that I've experienced, which, to
be honest, I for most of my life wasn't prepared
to do.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I spent most of my life putting masks on, pretending
to be anyone other than myself because I so despised myself,
and that self that I despised originated from a tiny
little girl who had horrible things happened to her that
she absolutely was not to blame for.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
That little girl was Melanie, That was used.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
See there you go.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
I even changed my name to run as hard and
fast away from her as I could. So so much
of my life has been wrapped up in ignoring the
bad things that happened. But and I can speak from
experience now because I've done all of my training to
(19:32):
become something of a trauma expert and exploitation expert.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
So I work very closely with children.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I work in schools and educate them how to be
safe online just in life in general. And I also
work with a lot of historical victims who want to
just be empowered enough to say the words that this
happened to me and it was not my fault, and
that might result in them pursuing criminal or some kind
of civil remediation. But now I can spot all the
(20:01):
red flags, and I can spot all the triggers when
someone has had that experience. I spent my life trying
to keep that under wraps, which is why acting was
a perfect profession.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Donning the mantle of somebody else. I'm someone else because
you couldn't bear to be yourself that cler.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
I couldn't bear to be Melanie because she'd been told
for so long that she was to blame for everything
that had happened to her.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
Now to get our listeners up to speech who may
not know this, and this is just an event of
such cataclysmic proportions to happen in anybody's life that I
can't believe this is not a story known to everybody.
(20:48):
I was certainly not familiar as familiar with it. We've
kind of have been background an noois.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
But that's I think you've described it so well that
this is a cataclysmic event. Yet it's experienced by one
in three girls and one in five boys, and that's
just the reported cases. So just to qualify for anyone
who's listening and not familiar with my backstory. And I'm
so glad to be at a point in my life
(21:14):
where I'm stepping away from being the poster child of
trauma and achieving something beautiful and wonderful in the aftermath.
I was the victim of a pedophile from the ages
of four to eleven, and it was quite horrific what
he did. It was your neighbors, yes, it was my
next door neighbor. And I was not alone. I was
(21:36):
not the only victim. And after many years of working
with therapists with the police, with the federal police. In
December of twenty twenty four, we put him away in
prison for fifteen years, so he's now accountable.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Peter Vincent White, his name was yes, so in your
little seemingly idyllic town of Woudeine that you grew up in,
this charming, you know, little town, almost village.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Tiny little bucolic, beautiful village type town. And he chose
the precisely perfect location, which was an area peopled predominantly
by low socioeconomic young families when little kids, and his
house was the most magnificent house in the neighborhood with
(22:29):
all the bits and pieces that would attract children, and
his wife was a frequent babysitter for.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
The neighborhood, so children were drawn to that area.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
And he was precisely the epitome of the rock spider who,
hidden in plane sight, was able to access.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Young children trusted and adored by the name.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
Absolutely, you know, so many and so many people have said,
how did they not know?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
How did they not know? And that's the cliche.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Hidden in plane sight he was right there, and no
one would dream that this wonderful, generous person who held
fabulous parties and invited everyone in the neighborhood who'd pop over,
and he was a plumber by trade, would fix your
block toilet without batting an eye. Was using that public,
that very positive public facade, to hide the most horrific
(23:24):
and as you said before, heinous, cataclysmic crime you can imagine,
and it still bewilders me.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
But the reason, as you said, you.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Know you can't believe that people haven't heard about it
is precisely because people don't talk about it. Our society
fosters a conspiracy of silence around this, and a.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Lot of that is motivated by fear.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Absolutely and also shame that we don't attach, we really
don't appropriately attach a victim or survivor label to those
who've experienced that. They are seen as deficit, as broken,
and as somehow complicit. There's still some degree of question
(24:06):
what we're wearing, what we're doing. Well, you must have
brought it on, you must have led him on. How
the hell does a five year old lead on a
forty year old man. How and yet that seems to
be the narrow raative we attached to this crime. And
that is why, to this day, this crime, which has
one of the highest ratios of victim per capita in
(24:29):
our society, the highest ratio of recidivus behavior by the perpetrators,
yet the lowest sentencing and the majority of cases a
perpetrator might get a slap on a wrist or a
community service order, yet commit tax fraud and you'll get
ten years in prison.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
What was the point in your life at which you,
in the service of that little girl that you carried
around with you, that you decided to go to the
police and say, this is what happened to me. What
was the process for you?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
You reach a point in your life where the white
noise of what happened to you is so loud you
can't function anymore, where memories start to resurface and you
can't touch them away or push them down anymore. And
I was on the cusp of a separation and questioning
(25:31):
so many things in my life, and what tip me
over was learning that he had grandchildren. And that was
when I went It stops with me, because I don't
care what anyone says. If you've experienced this, it will
manifest in your life in some way. Of course, it
might be that you become an alcoholic, you have drug addiction,
(25:52):
you might dabble in petty crime.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You might not be able to function socially.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
You might not be able to hold down a relationship
or hold down a lot a job.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
All these social what we call ills generally have.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Even the President, the high ratio of eating disorder sufferers
have a history of child abuse.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Was that how it manifested with you?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Absolutely, yeah, with horrific and.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
Her here from what age?
Speaker 5 (26:23):
I started exercising obsessively when I was twelve. Funnily enough,
not long after the abuse stopped. And that just got
worse and worse, and it led to lengthy hospitalizations when
I was in my late teens. At one point I'd
been hospitalized and I weighed less than thirty kiloads. And
I just that was the And I'd really call out
(26:47):
for anyone who has experienced this particular illness that and
I esidated even to call it an illness, because it's
often a manifestation of something deeper and darker.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
It's not about weight.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
It's too much to it's too little to correlate it
with images that we see in popular magazines and in
the media.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
It's about control.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
That that little girl had had her body violated so
vilely had no agency over her experience. So the one
thing I could control was what I put in my mouth.
And when I didn't put anything in my mouth, I
felt like I was in control. When I managed to
stave off the hunger pangs long enough that I didn't
(27:31):
feel hungry anymore, I was in control. And then you
reach a point when your b and my slips below sixteen,
where full blown body it's morephia kicks in. Well, you
don't even see yourself as you are. You could literally
look in the mirror and your skin is hanging off
you because there's all your muscles of atrophied and there's
nobody fat, and you do think that you're obese.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
You were so clearly broken you flagged it with your
parents at the time, because he was your neighbor. Was
not only raping you, he was raping other children in
the neighborhood, including one of your friends who was older
(28:16):
than yours, who was babysitting for his children.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yes, so at a quite a young age and thus
extremely exposed. And I know it's very easy to cast
a judgment that how would these other parents let this happen?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
How did they not know?
Speaker 5 (28:37):
And it might seem like a broad jump, but in
the same way that we frequently don't know what our
kids are looking at on their devices and what messages
they're sending, and the conversations they're having, and the cyber
bullying that they might be experiencing. That's why it's been
such an apt move that I now work in this
(28:59):
sphere where educate kids about how to be safe online
and what and educate their parents and teachers about what
the red flags are and what to avoid and how
best to manage it. Because we're all busy. We're all
doing the best that we can. And for young parents
in that neighborhood to have someone with a lovely home
with a professional career offered to help with your kids
(29:22):
for free was a gift.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
And that's the dream. I mean, that is the saying.
It takes a.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Vial absolutely, and this was purely an extension of that.
Let's take advantage of this village, and yeah, this is
why it's such a social ill. It seems the only
way to combat it is for us to all be
terribly cynical and everyone, you know, keeping it suspicious of
everyone around us. We don't want that, but we need
(29:52):
to bring broader recognition as to why this happens. How
does it create in someone an aherent, abhorrent urge to
engage with the child sexually, to break the break them,
to manipulate them and take advantage of them.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
There's so many impediments to somebody coming forward, particularly with
historical offenses like this. There was like a thirty years, yeah,
thirty or forty years in between, as you've already alluded to,
(30:30):
like the shame, the atropheed nature of yourself, the wanting
to also not immerse yourself back into the world of
that darkness.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
I had to, and that was a really hard five
years because once you knock that scab off, because it's
always a festering wound, once you knock that scab off
and you dig in there to that long, festering abscess
of trauma. Sorry, it's not a very attractive metaphor, but
(31:01):
it's true. It initially gets harder because you have to
allow yourself to fully remember what happened, and our brain
sets up so many guardposts to protect us from that.
And once you're back in there, it's we're talking about
(31:22):
crying in your wardrobe in a puddle of tears on
a regular basis territory, that's where you go. But once
you hit that rock bottom, you're acutely aware that as
hard as this is, and this is what I told
myself every morning, my mantra while I was meditating, this
(31:43):
too shall pass, It.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Can only get better.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
Once I was actually able to say the words with
complete detail, describing the room, the curtains, the time of day,
it was so specific what my body had.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Held on to for so long. It was like the
ultimate detox.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Okay, it was like a spiritual detox that it just
out like an exorcism, like an exorcism, and that would
only be matched by So when you go through these
particular cases, and they take a long time to get
to court, and the court processes on a yes, but
at the time of just before sentencing, victims have an
(32:27):
opportunity to speak not just to the judge but to
the perpetrator who is in the dock and express the
impact this it's called a victim's impact statement, and express
the impact that this person had on their life. And
when it was my time to get I elected that yes,
I would like to get up and say my peace.
(32:50):
But that moment of being able to stand up in court,
and the request is that you face the magistrate. And
I said to the magistrate, your honor, I appreciate that
what I have to say here is addressed to you,
but really it's addressed to him. And I turned around
and I eyeballed him, and I demanded that he look
at me, said you look at me, don't you dare
(33:13):
look away? You look at me?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
And then I spelled out the imp Did.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
He look at you? He did, and he was a
man in his seventies, seventies.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
And I then spelt out everything he had done and
laid out for him in the court the jigsaw puzzle
of my life and how that one? That to say one,
but it was over numerous years, his actions, the consequences
for me as a mother, as a partner, as a professional,
(33:45):
just as a living, breathing human being, had for the
rest of my life.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
And that.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Was the ultimate detox that for me was allowing me
to shrug off the cross of blame and shame and
depression and self hatred that I'd carried my entire life
for the first time and I literally said, I'm dropping
this backpack of shame here and you can take it
(34:12):
back to yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
With you where I hope you rot and die.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
So harsh words but apt and necessary and the ultimate
sense of justice. And it's probably okay, Yes I'm up
here and Byron, and it sounds terribly woo woo, But
I could literally feel little Melanie by my side, and
I could feel thousands of women and thousands of men
(34:40):
who've never had an opportunity to say the words to
discharge that trauma. I could feel them behind me in
that moment, and I'll never forget it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It was life changing.
Speaker 6 (34:54):
You said in your victim impact statement that you ran
away from that little girl as far and fast as
you could and to explain the true impact to him.
That was your intention, not just on that tiny girl,
(35:15):
but on the broken woman.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yes, that was you.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
When you just you're like a Babushka dole and the
three internal dolls are being pulled out and thrown away,
that you're you're fragile. I feel like I've lived so
much of my life like a glass vase that's been
shattered to tiny shards but held together with nice glossy
sticky tape.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
So we're gonna look at it and go it looks.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Like a vase and it's shaped like a vase and
it's beautiful, must be a vas but you try to
hold any substance or any amount of water for any
amount of time, and it's just going to leak out.
And how could it be any other way when a
crucial component of myself, Melanie who I am, was not there.
(36:02):
And so from that point of leaving the court that day,
I made a determination that I will live the life
that I was destined to live, one of wholeness, one
of love, one of kindness, understanding, empathy and appreciation.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
And I'm not going to gild the lily. It's hard.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
I don't necessarily believe in healing in inverted commons. I
believe that you learn to tolerate your trauma. I believe
you learn to navigate your life scars an awareness of yes,
with an awareness of the scar tissue, and you treat
it kindly so you don't extend your muscles too hard.
If it's going to pull and tug, you just very
(36:47):
gently give yourself a little massage and maybe put a
bit of balm on it or something like that. But
it's about for me, being well is making a monumental
effort to dip my cup into the well of things
that I do love about me and that I am
so grateful for having in my life.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
That's not all of my conversation with Matteline waste. After
this short break, she tells me how it felt when
she confronted her abuser. What are the things that you
love about you?
Speaker 5 (37:33):
That I've been blessed with my beautiful children. I love
that I have a capacity not just for compassion and sympathy,
but actual empathy that comes from a shared learn experience.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I do love that.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
I do love that I have a propensity to look
on the bright side of life.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I love that I am a hard worker.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
Now I know that my hard work has been its
genesis has been got to run, got to run, got
to run, got to run.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
So I stop. I'm going to feel and I don't
want to feel that.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
I love that I am curious about people in the
world and always have been. And I do love that
throughout my life I've done my best to polish a turd.
I really no matter what, I'm the toilet freshener. Now
(38:31):
that I don't for a minute reflect on my life
with regret, that the things that have regretted is pointless
it's like guilt. Guilt is just it's just superfluous. It's
almost a luxury that none of us can afford. You've
just got to get on with it. And I do
believe that I've managed to get on with it that. Yes,
(38:53):
I haven't been perfect, Yes that I've hurt people along
the way, certainly not with an intention of hurting them,
but it's simply not really knowing how to best function
in most situations.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
And hence why I feel.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
So grateful to be precisely where I am now, with
this little miracle who was clearly, spite all the odds,
absolutely destined to be.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
And also this is the first of your children who
will come into the world, into this new world, Yes,
into your new world, in which you've divested yourself of
that cloak of shame and heaviness and fear. Although obviously,
like you said, it's not just a you know, it's
(39:41):
not a clear excision of those.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Allies, but definitely blurred.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
But I certainly hope the majority of those demons that
plagued me earlier on are put to rest.
Speaker 6 (39:52):
Can I tell you something that I love about you?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Oh, I'd love to hear that.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
Obviously there's been your creative gift to the nation. But
the most extraordinary act of courage and a confluence of
your acting skills and your desire for justice and you're
(40:18):
advocating for that little girl who couldn't advocate for herself,
was when you went to the police and you told
them was this in twenty twenty eighteen. And I don't
know how this came about, but you met this incredible.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Detective Scott Tuttenham, my hero to.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
This day, and you are a hero to him because
of what you did. And this will be the subject
of a movie. Think about who's going to play you.
Because what you did was to make the case against
this predator stand up in court. They said that they
needed his confirmation of what he had done. You put
(41:00):
on a wind, You went back to that town, to
that house, You knocked on the door. Who opened the
door to you?
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Heed it him and his wife.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
And we'd purposefully come very early in the morning on
a public holiday, knowing that that gave us the greater
chance of actually nabbing him or him being home.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
And he and his wife opened the door.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
And I had done a lot of It's almost like
researching a character. Kate I'd done so much research on
the profile and the psychology of predators that I knew,
in the first glimpse, the first few seconds of confrontation,
(41:57):
a criminal will show their truth. And when I opened
that door, his wife, of course shocked. They were both
in their dressing gowns, went straight in and said oh, oh, oh, oh,
mel oh, what are you doing here? And he was
behind her shoulder and his face dropped, and I knew
(42:18):
in that moment, I've got you. You've been waiting, You've
been waiting so long for one of us to rock
up on your doorstep, and here I am. And they
invited me in, and the rest is history.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
Did she go, the wife go to make a cup
of tea?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
They took me and brought me into the kitchen, said
let's have a cup of tea.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
And she then said, look, I'm just going to get
changed into you know, my dressing howls get changed. I
said sure, and so Peter kept teas back to me
and he was making tea. I didn't say a word,
and I just said, look, Peter, it's really you that
I've come to see, because you've played such an important,
(43:05):
almost paternal role in my life and I knew from
the research that I'd done, if you approach a predator
from a place of understanding, that they're much more likely
to open up. And I said to him, I just
(43:25):
wanted to take this time to talk to you because
we had such a special relationship, and I understand that
that people are sometimes driven by needs and wants that
not everyone understands, but we understand. And I just I
(43:46):
felt like I needed to talk to you because some
of what happened between us has impacted me in a
really big way in my life, and I just feel
like I need to hear it acknowledged. I just like
I feel like I need, I need us to sort
of talk about that. And he said, oh, I don't.
(44:08):
I don't know what you mean. And I said, well,
when you you.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Touched me, Peter, when you rate me.
Speaker 5 (44:15):
And at that point she walked in and he was
just standing there with a cup and the tea bag
kind of frozen, and she said straight away, what's going on,
what's wrong? And I said, well, I just I was
just talking to Peter because well, he used to used
(44:38):
to touch me, Leslie, used to rate me. And she
kind of closed her card again and she went, oh,
I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
I can't imagine him doing.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
Anything like that, and then grabbed my hands and said,
but thank you so much for coming and talking to us.
And we then sat down at the table and talked
for forty five minutes, small small talk, but also I
kept coming back to and he said his reaction was
very much, Oh, I can't remember. I might I must
(45:10):
have blanked out, but I'm so sorry that I did
that to you. And so we just kept that was
like on a reel. It just kept wrong on this
conversation and his desperation. He was in tears at times.
I'm so sorry that you felt that way, and thank you.
Kept thanking me for coming and talking to him, which
(45:35):
I imagine was his way of discharging the fear that I
would go and speak to someone else.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
I wrap it up with a nice, pretty bow. Right now,
she won't.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
Go anywhere else, completely unaware that I had a wire
on and with the police in my ear, but they
were listening, and we continued to talk. We talked about
my kids, their kids, what everyone was doing, and then
they were inviting me to come back, let's all have
dinner together. So I wrapped it up and just by saying, look,
(46:08):
thank you for a for inviting me into your home,
but just thank you for acknowledging that that makes so
many things fall into place and just made me feel
so much better.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
And that was just bye bye.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
And I walked out the door and nearly collapsed and
then got to the car and Scott just said, thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
That is.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Extraordinary, finest piece of acting I've ever done.
Speaker 6 (46:35):
Maybe, well, how's that? But you know, it's such a
strange thing because if you think about and I saw
Amanda Lee in the sixty minute story that you did
about this, she couldn't have done it. Those other kids
couldn't do it. And it's as though your life and
(46:56):
the choices that you made subsequent to that placed you
perfectly with a dose of incredible. As I said, courage
the warrior, what are the odds?
Speaker 1 (47:10):
I know?
Speaker 6 (47:11):
I mean, you were talking about the statistics of children
that are sexually abused, and part of what brought that
home to you was, in the wake of you embarking
on your own justice, how many people approached you or
(47:31):
contacted you.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
At its height, I was being approached by between five
to eight people in the street every day just to
share their experience aid to thank me for my bravery.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
I feel there you go.
Speaker 5 (47:49):
It's almost like one to put inverted commas because I'm
too embarrassed to own it.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Thank me for my bravery.
Speaker 5 (47:56):
But up to this date, since first making my initial
disclosure publicly, I've had in excess of forty thousand, close
to fifty thousand Australians who've emailed me, messaged me, stop
me in the street, who have been part of my
inner outer circle, associates, work colleagues to disclose that it
(48:20):
happened to them. Now, I'm just one person walking around
on the planet. If I can be a magnet for
that degree of disclosures, then how big is this issue?
And tell you right now it is enormous and it
does not get the traction that it deserves. I'm going
(48:42):
to take a little moment here to acknowledge my therapist
to name was Vada Shepherd, and she was a victim
of trauma herself, of quite horrific trauma, and she taught
me how to mitigate my trauma response. Now, for those
of you, it's become almost a hashtag trauma, But for
(49:04):
those who suffered a significant trauma in their formative years,
it becomes enmeshed in who you are, becomes part of
you can't rationalize it.
Speaker 6 (49:14):
All.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
This thing happened to me when I was a child,
but that was then, this is now.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
There's a cli distinction for someone who's experienced that.
Speaker 5 (49:23):
When they're triggered, you go straight back to that place
where you're under threat, someone's about to hurt you, and
you go one of two ways. There's the dorsal vagel response,
where your body starts goes to sleep. It's like the
animal rolling over and bearing, exposing its bally awesome yep
to the predator. Or you go into the hypo arousal,
(49:45):
where you go a bit nutty, where you're in fvit
or flight.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
You're doing a million things at once hyperventilation.
Speaker 6 (49:50):
And I guess which one? Can I get? Switch one?
Speaker 1 (49:52):
You are I go into.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
In most of my I spend most of my functional
life in fight or flight, all the time mitigating something
bad happening. But when I'm actually confronted by confrontation or
I'm scared or I'm under threat, I go into dorsalvagel,
where I will literally fall asleep. And I've been known
to be having an argument with someone and I will
literally drive them batty, but I will have literally dozed off.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I'll just I'm confronted, something bad is going to happen.
I just shut down.
Speaker 5 (50:22):
She taught me how to mitigate that. She taught me
breathing techniques, visualization techniques, physical exercises, almost like preparing to
stroll onto a stage. And we're talking about vocal warm
ups earlier. She taught me how to mitigate that. And
so when we were sitting in a car at five
am before I went in, I was going into dorsal vagel,
(50:45):
I was starting to nod off. I was falling asleep,
and I said to Scott, I can't do this. I'm
just not here. I can't do this. And he grabbed
my hands and he said, Madeline, just act. That's what
you're good at. Pretend that you're a woman who has
been horrifically wronged. You go in there and you seek justice.
(51:08):
And I went, oh, okay. I woke up and I went.
I marched in there and I did what I had
to do. But I wanted to touch on Varda because she,
and this is quite I've never really spoken about this,
but she she developed secondary breast cancer whilst my case
(51:31):
was playing out in court, and she didn't tell anyone
that she was sick.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
She just started.
Speaker 5 (51:36):
She became close friends with Scott and his beautiful partner.
She was an adored mentor to me, and yet suddenly
she just sort of disappeared off the scene. And she'd
send us into mitent texts, just checking on us and
telling us how much she loved us. And we found
out from her daughter the last Varda was coming in
(52:02):
out of consciousness and Scott had messaged her phone to
let her know that Peter had pled guilty and was
going to jail, and she passed away the same day.
She'd hold on till that last minute, that very last minute,
(52:24):
to ensure justice was served, and then she let go.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
And that just breaks my heart that she didn't tell me.
That I found out afterwards, and I understand why, but
that this woman have a fortitude to move through her
own traumas and assist me to seek justice on behalf
of so many she said earlier, who don't have the agency,
(52:52):
who don't have the opportunity, for all the other victims
in this case and all the cases across the centuries,
and for everyone right here now, living and breathing who
has experienced this as a small, defenseless, vulnerable child, for
me to be able to get up there and get
justice on behalf of everyone.
Speaker 5 (53:09):
She waited to ensure justice had been served before she
let herself go.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
And for me, that's the most important story, a part
of the whole story.
Speaker 6 (53:20):
Men, it's all it's all important. It's all important. And also,
I imagine from her there was a degree also of
not wanting to add to what was already, what you're
already enduring, and what you had to gird your loins.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
And she knew me too well.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
She knew that I would have cooked up a couple
of casseroles, and I would have been on her doorstep,
banging on the door, demanding to be let in. And
so she chose her path, and that path was one
of love and support to her up right up until
her final breath.
Speaker 6 (53:54):
Madeline West, what does the future hold beyond you holding
your newest baby in three weeks time? What do you
say for yourself now as you step into the future.
Speaker 5 (54:12):
I see myself living large, laughing loud, loving hard, with
none of the barriers that stopped me doing that in
the past. I see me continuing to do the work
(54:32):
that I do in assisting victims to become not just survivors,
but you know, heroes in their own life, to acknowledge
that you've really you've survived something phenomenal. My focus is very,
very firmly on being the best mum I can be
(54:54):
and being the best person I can be, to continue
being a contributing global citizen. I like to feel in
my own small way that what I've been through has
enabled me to leave a legacy and to be yeah,
to continue that work and just being present, really just
(55:17):
smelling the roses and gosh, to have come this far
and I have lived a very big life to come
this far, but to really just be present and to
appreciate every moment for what it is and stop rushing
headlong into the future. To be right here, right now,
(55:41):
and to be so grateful to be right here right now,
so to live gracefully and gratefully without apology.
Speaker 6 (55:54):
Ah Madeline West Melanie, and.
Speaker 5 (55:58):
I embraced that name, ah that little girl she is
in me. Now I feel like I'm a bush godl
that is being perfectly put together, and I've the jigsaw
puzzle that makes up my life is complete.
Speaker 6 (56:17):
I cannot thank you enough, not just for sharing your
story with no filter in our listeners, but also for
your valiance, proper, proper valiance.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
That is so beautiful. Thank you for that.
Speaker 5 (56:39):
I would have never attached that word to myself on
popping that in my CV, because I love it. I
suppose it's a word I wouldn't have associated with myself
because valiance comes with a really strong image of being armored,
you know, armor, the white knight writing on his noble steed.
(57:02):
And it's only now that I've let my armor drop
for so many for most of my life, like my
New year Is resolution every year was to pull on
the boxing gloves, and this year, I'm.
Speaker 3 (57:13):
Going to fight.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
I'm going to fight.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I'm going to fight. I'm not going to fight anymore.
Speaker 6 (57:19):
Thanks Matt, Thanks so gorgeous having a chat. This is
one of the most astounding conversations that I've ever had.
I said this to Madeline after the interview, that I
just wanted to thank her for being so honest with
me and with you our listeners, and the fact that
(57:41):
she has allowed so many people to find the courage
to speak out. She's proven herself to be so resourceful,
so resilient and in a word that's bandied around far
too often. She is the definition of bravery. The executive
producer of No Filter is Naima Brown. Senior producer is
(58:04):
Grace Rufray. Sound design is by Jacob Brown. And I'm
your host, Kate lane Brook. I'll be back with you
next week. And if this episode brings up any hard
feelings and you need to talk to one, We've put
some links to resources in the show notes.
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We
have recorded this podcast on the Gatagoul people of the
Eur Nation. We pay our respects to their elders past
and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and
Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hence why I feel hi.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
It's preplayer here. I'm the executive producer of Australia's number
one interview podcast, No Filter, and this summer we're curating
your restart playlist, giving you our top No Filter episodes.
Right here, it's your summer listening sorted. We're bringing you
riveting stories and fascinating lives with our host Kate lane
Brook right here into your podcast speed and if you're
(01:03):
looking for more to listen to, every Muma mea podcast
is curating your summer listening right across our network, from
pop culture to beauty to powerful interviews. There's something for everyone.
There's a link in show notes.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Are so grateful to be precisely where I am now,
this little miracle who was clearly, spite all the odds,
absolutely destined to be. I certainly hope the majority of
those demons had plagued me earlier on are put to rest.
Speaker 6 (01:41):
Waiting for a pregnancy test result can bring on a
whirlwind of emotions excitement, anxiety, anticipation, dread. But for Madeline West,
seeing a positive test at forty seven wasn't just surprising,
it was completely and utterly shocking, because at first she
(02:05):
thought that she was in perimenopause. She even asked her
doctor if a positive pregnancy test could be a symptom,
but no, she was in fact expecting her seventh child,
and when we spoke, she was just two weeks away
from giving birth. In this conversation, Madeleine is the epitome
of no filter, unflinchingly honest and deeply reflective. She shares
(02:31):
how she's really feeling, how the media expects her to
feel about the poetically named geriatric pregnancy, and why she's
choosing to embrace this unexpected twist in her story. But
more than that, Madeline West opens up about something far
more profound, her experience of childhood sexual abuse, a secret
(02:54):
she had hidden from the world and from herself for
almost forty years. She speaks about the moment she knew
she was ready to confront her abuser and the valiance
that it took to bring him to justice. Now, as
she prepares to welcome another baby, Madeleine describes her life
(03:15):
as a jigsaw puzzle, one that's been scattered, rebuilt, and
reshaped j over time, and after years of healing and
self discovery, she finally feels like the last piece is
falling into place. But before we get there, I just
want to let you know that this conversation through necessity
(03:37):
does include very candid discussion of the abuse that Madeleine survived.
So please this and mindfully. And here is Madeline West.
Madeline West, beautiful of face, extraordinary of soul. We will
get to that later. Welcome to no filth.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
I feel like, on the basis of that welcome, I
wish I was in the room with you.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
I've even brought I've brought snacks.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
With me because you just can't come between a pregnant
woman and a snack. So I wish I was in
the room. Wis the cape well?
Speaker 6 (04:16):
So you are pregnant?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
The duff well and truly.
Speaker 6 (04:20):
A barn in the oven? All of that this needs
a drum roll. Seventh, child, you are forty five.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
I'm forty seven.
Speaker 6 (04:32):
Oh you're forty seven. It's just.
Speaker 5 (04:38):
Are you laughing because it's just getting worse? O. B.
Speaker 6 (04:41):
Well, it's just I actually I actually love it. I
love it. I'm happy it's not me. I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
It's so funny to say that, Kate. All my girlfriends
are saying the same thing. They're like, I can't wait
to hold a baby, just don't want to carry one
in one undercarriage, which.
Speaker 6 (05:02):
Is all right. So I've just made a mistake that
I imagine is happening a lot. The first thing when
someone's pregnant. Congratulations, congratulations, Madaline, We congratulations. But because it's
so extraordinary, is that getting a little bit lost in
(05:26):
the mix, in the mix of the astonished sho so
that the first reaction is always shocked.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
My first reaction was shocked and disbelief.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
So I certainly can't judge anyone else for having a
similar reaction to it. But what I will say, and
what I have discovered, is that I am far from alone. Statistically,
teen pregnancies are on a sharp decline. Pregnancies in their
forties are on the rise, and particularly over forty four,
(06:01):
which is quite surprising. It's quadrupled in the last twenty years,
how many women in their latter forties are now going
on to have babies. So I understand that there is
it's certainly not helped by the geriatric pregnancy label.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
That you get slashed with from thirty five.
Speaker 5 (06:20):
I'm like, should I go babies fun things and buy
a PRAM or should I go and get a zimmer Frame.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
I'm not quite sure they should do doubles the mission.
Speaker 5 (06:28):
I think they should a little package, our geriatric package.
But what I have discovered, and I was very slow
to I really didn't want to initially air where I
was and what was happening in my life. I've become
increasingly private as I've gotten older.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
And listen, you've moved to Bayn and I moved to Byron.
Speaker 5 (06:49):
And it was my hand was kind of forced because
I was informed by a media agency that there was
awareness that I was pregnant. And that came about not
because I'd rocked up to Melbourne Fashion Week or something
in alycra Frock. It was because I was actually presenting
at Parliament and trying to push through legislation to amper
(07:11):
protections around child safety, and I was just spotted by
a journalist who of course went back to the office
told everyone, they told everyone they knew. I found find
out that I was being followed by perhaps trying to
get that first photo. So I thought, well, I'm going
to as much as I don't want to, I'm going
to speak out about this on my terms. And the
most wonderful flow on effect of that was I had
(07:34):
over a thousand responses from other women who had or
were having babies in their forties saying, I thought I
was the only one.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I thought I was the only one who was.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Going to rock up to play group and everyone would
think I was grandma. I thought I was the only
one who at first day of school I'd be mingling
with mothers and fathers who are half my age.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
But quite the reverse is true.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
So it's really I'm actually quite gratified to have illuminated
or shone a spotlight on this particular group of men
and women who are delving into parenting later in life
and thought that they were alone.
Speaker 6 (08:13):
And also I find it kind of hopeful because the
one thing that we know about nature is that nature
can be cruel, particularly when it comes to issues of fertility.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yes, it most definitely can.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
And you thought that you were perimenopausal, and you thought
that's why you were having these strange cycles.
Speaker 5 (08:31):
See as soon as like that, oh hang on, my
monthly's disappeared. Oh wow, I must have just hot footed
it right through the perimenopause phase and I've gone straight
to menopause. But then I got a couple of other
symptoms that I recognized but did not quite fit with
the narrative around menopause, which thankfully is finally getting so
(08:55):
much traction in the media and just amongst society itself.
Were finally having meaningful conversations about perimenopause and menopause. But
my symptoms didn't quite correlate with any of that. I
wasn't getting hot flushes. I was certainly rageful, but I'm
a mum of six. Of course I'm rageful. Am I
(09:16):
not rageful? And I did the little just thought, you know, oh,
let's just let's just get this out of the way,
and let's just do a little way on a stick.
And two lines popped up, and I'll be honest with you, Kate,
My first thought was, maybe this is a symptom of
many pause that no one's heard about you.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Maybe because all your hormones are going all over. Maybe
this is what happens.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
So I had a little check up with the doctor
and he said, no, you are most definitely geriatrically up
the dust and here we are okay.
Speaker 6 (09:49):
So because you now live in Byron, so this would
not have been the same doctor that you had through
your other six pregnancies. Or are you you have the twins.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
That I came, went and saw, had a room full
of dream catches and healing crystals and well, I'm just
crying me a good hard staging.
Speaker 6 (10:08):
No, but you have to explain yourself to a new
is shocks.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
You have to go through everything.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
And I am someone who prides myself on keeping really
healthy both.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Mentally and physically.
Speaker 5 (10:20):
That's become a priority for me, especially particularly in the
last five years, because I've gone through quite a few things,
and so that became an absolute priority to shore up
my physical and mental health. And that is what I
have been doing. So I'm not a frequent visitor to
a doctor's office, but I did. Yes, I found I
(10:40):
have got a lovely GP who went and saw and
his eyebrows went through the roof when we got the
positive result as well. But again he reiterated that as
much as this is inverted comma's higher risk, it's also
not uncommon. And that's what I discovered when I opened
up finally and starting having conversations with my core beautiful
(11:04):
group of friends, that many of them had found themselves
in my shoes and had either decided to proceed or
not proceed. But this was not completely I wasn't an anomaly.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Well. I also had babies in my frie yes, and
I also had caesareans, And I know when I had
to go back to the doctor the fourth time that
I was accidentally pregnant. I love that these are two
grown up.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
We have actually, and it's a great title for a book, accidentally.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
But they were like, they don't like to do caesareans
past three cesareans. I was going for four. You're presumably
going to have, yes, so I won't let you go
natural now.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Will that? No?
Speaker 5 (11:50):
No, no, have an American emergency caesar because I'm quite
small and my babies are generally quite big, so.
Speaker 6 (11:58):
Bigger than bigger than you would like exactly.
Speaker 5 (12:02):
I do have a really lovely doctor who is allowing
me to go into labor, yes, which is lovely because
it means that some of those issues that little ones
face when they are born by a cesarean section that
can be some issues with lungs and issues with the
milk come in. Sorry, too much information, but we're going
(12:23):
down that path. So let's deep dive deep obviated.
Speaker 6 (12:27):
It's no filter, mad Oh, that's right, said, it's no filter.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
I've got a wonderful obstetrician who will let me go
into labor and then we'll pop in and zip the
little one out.
Speaker 6 (12:39):
Okay, So when you've seen your doctor, you get the
news that you are pregnant. Yes, how long ago was this?
By the way, how deep are you in?
Speaker 5 (12:49):
I've got about two and a half weeks al yes,
and this is officially the last thing I'm going to
do that requires my brain to function. I've just sat
like I drew a line in the set. I said,
I'm going to have my chat to Kate and I'm
doing nothing else.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
So when you get that news, who is the first
person that you take?
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Um?
Speaker 6 (13:12):
Right?
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What?
Speaker 6 (13:14):
And where is mask?
Speaker 5 (13:15):
So Mum's down in Victoria, so she's a little bit
of a distance and she's actually going to be my
birth partner, in which I love. I think that's a
very strong, almost tribal connection. Yes, and this is I'm
going on a tight segue, So please hold that question
in your head, Cake, because I know I'll go off
(13:36):
on a tangent and I'll completely forget, forget what we're
talking about. But I've just read the most amazing book
called Eve by Cat Bohannon. I'd recommend it to anyone
to read, and it explains how the female body has
driven evolution for the last two hundred million years, and
it gives the most precise scientific explanation for why we
(13:58):
enter menopause. We, apart from killer whales, are the only
creatures on the planet that experience menopause, and men certainly
don't experience it, so it's specific to the female body.
And it was a precise choice that we biologically, genealogically
made in our history of evolution as we branched off
(14:18):
from some of our primate predecessor to experience menopause so
that women could lead.
Speaker 6 (14:26):
And in part the wisdom is this is this week
because I have heard this, but I didn't know.
Speaker 5 (14:30):
That was the genes And it's absolutely brilliant and it's
been been quantified by numerous scientific studies that demonstrate that
like killer whales, we are the ones who say, this
is what you do in a drought, this is what
you do in a famine. You need to blanch those
vegetables to get the toxins out. And mothers are designed
(14:52):
to birth their grandchildren.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
They've got this wealth of knowledge.
Speaker 5 (14:57):
And Western society is very good at dismissing our elderly
as yes, somehow a little bit decrepit.
Speaker 6 (15:04):
Us geriatric, we're out there.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
In the field, now, let them go and graze.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
But the sheer wealth of instinctive knowledge that our older
generations of women have is mind boggling. So it feels
very symbolic and very right that it is my mum
there who will bring this new little one.
Speaker 6 (15:28):
What did she say? What did she say when you
told her you were on the phone, She dissuming.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
Oh, and this is a very frequent response, I've gotten
it's just going to be so hard, And I thought
of pauled.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
So she forgot to say congratulations exactly.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
And then of course it warms up to congratulations, and
over the weeks and the days and the weeks and
the months that follows, it becomes overwhelmingly positive the response.
But her first concern is it's going to be so
hard because you've already got so much going on. And
I stepped back for a moment and went, well, I
think as I've grown older and hopefully wiser, I've come
(16:11):
to choose my heart because life is hard.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Everything about life is hard.
Speaker 5 (16:17):
We've got all got so many pressures on our shows.
And yes, there's so many things I want to do
with my life, but I don't for a moment believe
the presence of this precious little miracle in my life
is going to stop me doing what I want to do.
If anything, it's going to push me harder to do
what I want to do to make the world a
(16:39):
better place, a safer place.
Speaker 6 (16:46):
Coming up after the break, I asked Madeline how she
processed the news of her pregnancy at forty seven years old,
and whether she considered all the possible options stay with us.
Was there a moment where you thought maybe I won't
(17:09):
proceed with this.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
No, No, because initially I thought it was menopause.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
I found out a little bit later that most do.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
And my body knows this is number seven precisely, where
that little cluster of cells is at every stage, and
from I am all for everyone having everyone and everyone
having choice and facilities to exercise that choice. But for me,
(17:47):
this was a little This was a little human being
who was going to change the world from the moment
that I found out that I was pregnant, and that
has not changed.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
You know, you said life is hard, and I know
a lot of people say that as epithets. You know,
politicians love to talk about people doing it tough, as
though they've had nothing to do with the fact that
people in that class. But do you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
I can't quite join the dots.
Speaker 6 (18:19):
Yeah, exactly right. But when you say life is hard,
you have a much more acute understanding of that than
most people.
Speaker 5 (18:31):
I do now because I can actually look back retrospectively
as some of the things that I've experienced, which, to
be honest, I for most of my life wasn't prepared
to do.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I spent most of my life putting masks on, pretending
to be anyone other than myself because I so despised myself,
and that self that I despised originated from a tiny
little girl who had horrible things happened to her that
she absolutely was not to blame for.
Speaker 6 (19:07):
That little girl was Melanie, That was used.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
See there you go.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
I even changed my name to run as hard and
fast away from her as I could. So so much
of my life has been wrapped up in ignoring the
bad things that happened. But and I can speak from
experience now because I've done all of my training to
(19:32):
become something of a trauma expert and exploitation expert.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
So I work very closely with children.
Speaker 5 (19:38):
I work in schools and educate them how to be
safe online just in life in general. And I also
work with a lot of historical victims who want to
just be empowered enough to say the words that this
happened to me and it was not my fault, and
that might result in them pursuing criminal or some kind
of civil remediation. But now I can spot all the
(20:01):
red flags, and I can spot all the triggers when
someone has had that experience. I spent my life trying
to keep that under wraps, which is why acting was
a perfect profession.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
Donning the mantle of somebody else. I'm someone else because
you couldn't bear to be yourself that cler.
Speaker 5 (20:20):
I couldn't bear to be Melanie because she'd been told
for so long that she was to blame for everything
that had happened to her.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
Now to get our listeners up to speech who may
not know this, and this is just an event of
such cataclysmic proportions to happen in anybody's life that I
can't believe this is not a story known to everybody.
(20:48):
I was certainly not familiar as familiar with it. We've
kind of have been background an noois.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
But that's I think you've described it so well that
this is a cataclysmic event. Yet it's experienced by one
in three girls and one in five boys, and that's
just the reported cases. So just to qualify for anyone
who's listening and not familiar with my backstory. And I'm
so glad to be at a point in my life
(21:14):
where I'm stepping away from being the poster child of
trauma and achieving something beautiful and wonderful in the aftermath.
I was the victim of a pedophile from the ages
of four to eleven, and it was quite horrific what
he did. It was your neighbors, yes, it was my
next door neighbor. And I was not alone. I was
(21:36):
not the only victim. And after many years of working
with therapists with the police, with the federal police. In
December of twenty twenty four, we put him away in
prison for fifteen years, so he's now accountable.
Speaker 6 (21:54):
Peter Vincent White, his name was yes, so in your
little seemingly idyllic town of Woudeine that you grew up in,
this charming, you know, little town, almost village.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Tiny little bucolic, beautiful village type town. And he chose
the precisely perfect location, which was an area peopled predominantly
by low socioeconomic young families when little kids, and his
house was the most magnificent house in the neighborhood with
(22:29):
all the bits and pieces that would attract children, and
his wife was a frequent babysitter for.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
The neighborhood, so children were drawn to that area.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
And he was precisely the epitome of the rock spider who,
hidden in plane sight, was able to access.
Speaker 6 (22:49):
Young children trusted and adored by the name.
Speaker 5 (22:52):
Absolutely, you know, so many and so many people have said,
how did they not know?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
How did they not know? And that's the cliche.
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Hidden in plane sight he was right there, and no
one would dream that this wonderful, generous person who held
fabulous parties and invited everyone in the neighborhood who'd pop over,
and he was a plumber by trade, would fix your
block toilet without batting an eye. Was using that public,
that very positive public facade, to hide the most horrific
(23:24):
and as you said before, heinous, cataclysmic crime you can imagine,
and it still bewilders me.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
But the reason, as you said, you.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
Know you can't believe that people haven't heard about it
is precisely because people don't talk about it. Our society
fosters a conspiracy of silence around this, and a.
Speaker 6 (23:42):
Lot of that is motivated by fear.
Speaker 5 (23:46):
Absolutely and also shame that we don't attach, we really
don't appropriately attach a victim or survivor label to those
who've experienced that. They are seen as deficit, as broken,
and as somehow complicit. There's still some degree of question
(24:06):
what we're wearing, what we're doing. Well, you must have
brought it on, you must have led him on. How
the hell does a five year old lead on a
forty year old man. How and yet that seems to
be the narrow raative we attached to this crime. And
that is why, to this day, this crime, which has
one of the highest ratios of victim per capita in
(24:29):
our society, the highest ratio of recidivus behavior by the perpetrators,
yet the lowest sentencing and the majority of cases a
perpetrator might get a slap on a wrist or a
community service order, yet commit tax fraud and you'll get
ten years in prison.
Speaker 6 (24:48):
What was the point in your life at which you,
in the service of that little girl that you carried
around with you, that you decided to go to the
police and say, this is what happened to me. What
was the process for you?
Speaker 5 (25:06):
You reach a point in your life where the white
noise of what happened to you is so loud you
can't function anymore, where memories start to resurface and you
can't touch them away or push them down anymore. And
I was on the cusp of a separation and questioning
(25:31):
so many things in my life, and what tip me
over was learning that he had grandchildren. And that was
when I went It stops with me, because I don't
care what anyone says. If you've experienced this, it will
manifest in your life in some way. Of course, it
might be that you become an alcoholic, you have drug addiction,
(25:52):
you might dabble in petty crime.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
You might not be able to function socially.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
You might not be able to hold down a relationship
or hold down a lot a job.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
All these social what we call ills generally have.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Even the President, the high ratio of eating disorder sufferers
have a history of child abuse.
Speaker 6 (26:16):
Was that how it manifested with you?
Speaker 3 (26:18):
Absolutely, yeah, with horrific and.
Speaker 6 (26:20):
Her here from what age?
Speaker 5 (26:23):
I started exercising obsessively when I was twelve. Funnily enough,
not long after the abuse stopped. And that just got
worse and worse, and it led to lengthy hospitalizations when
I was in my late teens. At one point I'd
been hospitalized and I weighed less than thirty kiloads. And
I just that was the And I'd really call out
(26:47):
for anyone who has experienced this particular illness that and
I esidated even to call it an illness, because it's
often a manifestation of something deeper and darker.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
It's not about weight.
Speaker 5 (26:58):
It's too much to it's too little to correlate it
with images that we see in popular magazines and in
the media.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
It's about control.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
That that little girl had had her body violated so
vilely had no agency over her experience. So the one
thing I could control was what I put in my mouth.
And when I didn't put anything in my mouth, I
felt like I was in control. When I managed to
stave off the hunger pangs long enough that I didn't
(27:31):
feel hungry anymore, I was in control. And then you
reach a point when your b and my slips below sixteen,
where full blown body it's morephia kicks in. Well, you
don't even see yourself as you are. You could literally
look in the mirror and your skin is hanging off
you because there's all your muscles of atrophied and there's
nobody fat, and you do think that you're obese.
Speaker 6 (27:55):
You were so clearly broken you flagged it with your
parents at the time, because he was your neighbor. Was
not only raping you, he was raping other children in
the neighborhood, including one of your friends who was older
(28:16):
than yours, who was babysitting for his children.
Speaker 5 (28:20):
Yes, so at a quite a young age and thus
extremely exposed. And I know it's very easy to cast
a judgment that how would these other parents let this happen?
Speaker 1 (28:36):
How did they not know?
Speaker 5 (28:37):
And it might seem like a broad jump, but in
the same way that we frequently don't know what our
kids are looking at on their devices and what messages
they're sending, and the conversations they're having, and the cyber
bullying that they might be experiencing. That's why it's been
such an apt move that I now work in this
(28:59):
sphere where educate kids about how to be safe online
and what and educate their parents and teachers about what
the red flags are and what to avoid and how
best to manage it. Because we're all busy. We're all
doing the best that we can. And for young parents
in that neighborhood to have someone with a lovely home
with a professional career offered to help with your kids
(29:22):
for free was a gift.
Speaker 6 (29:26):
And that's the dream. I mean, that is the saying.
It takes a.
Speaker 5 (29:30):
Vial absolutely, and this was purely an extension of that.
Let's take advantage of this village, and yeah, this is
why it's such a social ill. It seems the only
way to combat it is for us to all be
terribly cynical and everyone, you know, keeping it suspicious of
everyone around us. We don't want that, but we need
(29:52):
to bring broader recognition as to why this happens. How
does it create in someone an aherent, abhorrent urge to
engage with the child sexually, to break the break them,
to manipulate them and take advantage of them.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
There's so many impediments to somebody coming forward, particularly with
historical offenses like this. There was like a thirty years, yeah,
thirty or forty years in between, as you've already alluded to,
(30:30):
like the shame, the atropheed nature of yourself, the wanting
to also not immerse yourself back into the world of
that darkness.
Speaker 5 (30:40):
I had to, and that was a really hard five
years because once you knock that scab off, because it's
always a festering wound, once you knock that scab off
and you dig in there to that long, festering abscess
of trauma. Sorry, it's not a very attractive metaphor, but
(31:01):
it's true. It initially gets harder because you have to
allow yourself to fully remember what happened, and our brain
sets up so many guardposts to protect us from that.
And once you're back in there, it's we're talking about
(31:22):
crying in your wardrobe in a puddle of tears on
a regular basis territory, that's where you go. But once
you hit that rock bottom, you're acutely aware that as
hard as this is, and this is what I told
myself every morning, my mantra while I was meditating, this
(31:43):
too shall pass, It.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
Can only get better.
Speaker 5 (31:47):
Once I was actually able to say the words with
complete detail, describing the room, the curtains, the time of day,
it was so specific what my body had.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Held on to for so long. It was like the
ultimate detox.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
Okay, it was like a spiritual detox that it just
out like an exorcism, like an exorcism, and that would
only be matched by So when you go through these
particular cases, and they take a long time to get
to court, and the court processes on a yes, but
at the time of just before sentencing, victims have an
(32:27):
opportunity to speak not just to the judge but to
the perpetrator who is in the dock and express the
impact this it's called a victim's impact statement, and express
the impact that this person had on their life. And
when it was my time to get I elected that yes,
I would like to get up and say my peace.
(32:50):
But that moment of being able to stand up in court,
and the request is that you face the magistrate. And
I said to the magistrate, your honor, I appreciate that
what I have to say here is addressed to you,
but really it's addressed to him. And I turned around
and I eyeballed him, and I demanded that he look
at me, said you look at me, don't you dare
(33:13):
look away? You look at me?
Speaker 3 (33:16):
And then I spelled out the imp Did.
Speaker 6 (33:18):
He look at you? He did, and he was a
man in his seventies, seventies.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
And I then spelt out everything he had done and
laid out for him in the court the jigsaw puzzle
of my life and how that one? That to say one,
but it was over numerous years, his actions, the consequences
for me as a mother, as a partner, as a professional,
(33:45):
just as a living, breathing human being, had for the
rest of my life.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
And that.
Speaker 5 (33:51):
Was the ultimate detox that for me was allowing me
to shrug off the cross of blame and shame and
depression and self hatred that I'd carried my entire life
for the first time and I literally said, I'm dropping
this backpack of shame here and you can take it
(34:12):
back to yourself.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
With you where I hope you rot and die.
Speaker 5 (34:16):
So harsh words but apt and necessary and the ultimate
sense of justice. And it's probably okay, Yes I'm up
here and Byron, and it sounds terribly woo woo, But
I could literally feel little Melanie by my side, and
I could feel thousands of women and thousands of men
(34:40):
who've never had an opportunity to say the words to
discharge that trauma. I could feel them behind me in
that moment, and I'll never forget it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It was life changing.
Speaker 6 (34:54):
You said in your victim impact statement that you ran
away from that little girl as far and fast as
you could and to explain the true impact to him.
That was your intention, not just on that tiny girl,
(35:15):
but on the broken woman.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yes, that was you.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
When you just you're like a Babushka dole and the
three internal dolls are being pulled out and thrown away,
that you're you're fragile. I feel like I've lived so
much of my life like a glass vase that's been
shattered to tiny shards but held together with nice glossy
sticky tape.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
So we're gonna look at it and go it looks.
Speaker 5 (35:41):
Like a vase and it's shaped like a vase and
it's beautiful, must be a vas but you try to
hold any substance or any amount of water for any
amount of time, and it's just going to leak out.
And how could it be any other way when a
crucial component of myself, Melanie who I am, was not there.
(36:02):
And so from that point of leaving the court that day,
I made a determination that I will live the life
that I was destined to live, one of wholeness, one
of love, one of kindness, understanding, empathy and appreciation.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
And I'm not going to gild the lily. It's hard.
Speaker 5 (36:25):
I don't necessarily believe in healing in inverted commons. I
believe that you learn to tolerate your trauma. I believe
you learn to navigate your life scars an awareness of yes,
with an awareness of the scar tissue, and you treat
it kindly so you don't extend your muscles too hard.
If it's going to pull and tug, you just very
(36:47):
gently give yourself a little massage and maybe put a
bit of balm on it or something like that. But
it's about for me, being well is making a monumental
effort to dip my cup into the well of things
that I do love about me and that I am
so grateful for having in my life.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
That's not all of my conversation with Matteline waste. After
this short break, she tells me how it felt when
she confronted her abuser. What are the things that you
love about you?
Speaker 5 (37:33):
That I've been blessed with my beautiful children. I love
that I have a capacity not just for compassion and sympathy,
but actual empathy that comes from a shared learn experience.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I do love that.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
I do love that I have a propensity to look
on the bright side of life.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I love that I am a hard worker.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
Now I know that my hard work has been its
genesis has been got to run, got to run, got
to run, got to run.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
So I stop. I'm going to feel and I don't
want to feel that.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
I love that I am curious about people in the
world and always have been. And I do love that
throughout my life I've done my best to polish a turd.
I really no matter what, I'm the toilet freshener. Now
(38:31):
that I don't for a minute reflect on my life
with regret, that the things that have regretted is pointless
it's like guilt. Guilt is just it's just superfluous. It's
almost a luxury that none of us can afford. You've
just got to get on with it. And I do
believe that I've managed to get on with it that. Yes,
(38:53):
I haven't been perfect, Yes that I've hurt people along
the way, certainly not with an intention of hurting them,
but it's simply not really knowing how to best function
in most situations.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
And hence why I feel.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
So grateful to be precisely where I am now, with
this little miracle who was clearly, spite all the odds,
absolutely destined to be.
Speaker 6 (39:21):
And also this is the first of your children who
will come into the world, into this new world, Yes,
into your new world, in which you've divested yourself of
that cloak of shame and heaviness and fear. Although obviously,
like you said, it's not just a you know, it's
(39:41):
not a clear excision of those.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
Allies, but definitely blurred.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
But I certainly hope the majority of those demons that
plagued me earlier on are put to rest.
Speaker 6 (39:52):
Can I tell you something that I love about you?
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Oh, I'd love to hear that.
Speaker 6 (39:56):
Obviously there's been your creative gift to the nation. But
the most extraordinary act of courage and a confluence of
your acting skills and your desire for justice and you're
(40:18):
advocating for that little girl who couldn't advocate for herself,
was when you went to the police and you told
them was this in twenty twenty eighteen. And I don't
know how this came about, but you met this incredible.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Detective Scott Tuttenham, my hero to.
Speaker 6 (40:35):
This day, and you are a hero to him because
of what you did. And this will be the subject
of a movie. Think about who's going to play you.
Because what you did was to make the case against
this predator stand up in court. They said that they
needed his confirmation of what he had done. You put
(41:00):
on a wind, You went back to that town, to
that house, You knocked on the door. Who opened the
door to you?
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Heed it him and his wife.
Speaker 5 (41:16):
And we'd purposefully come very early in the morning on
a public holiday, knowing that that gave us the greater
chance of actually nabbing him or him being home.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
And he and his wife opened the door.
Speaker 5 (41:35):
And I had done a lot of It's almost like
researching a character. Kate I'd done so much research on
the profile and the psychology of predators that I knew,
in the first glimpse, the first few seconds of confrontation,
(41:57):
a criminal will show their truth. And when I opened
that door, his wife, of course shocked. They were both
in their dressing gowns, went straight in and said oh, oh, oh, oh,
mel oh, what are you doing here? And he was
behind her shoulder and his face dropped, and I knew
(42:18):
in that moment, I've got you. You've been waiting, You've
been waiting so long for one of us to rock
up on your doorstep, and here I am. And they
invited me in, and the rest is history.
Speaker 6 (42:35):
Did she go, the wife go to make a cup
of tea?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
They took me and brought me into the kitchen, said
let's have a cup of tea.
Speaker 5 (42:42):
And she then said, look, I'm just going to get
changed into you know, my dressing howls get changed. I
said sure, and so Peter kept teas back to me
and he was making tea. I didn't say a word,
and I just said, look, Peter, it's really you that
I've come to see, because you've played such an important,
(43:05):
almost paternal role in my life and I knew from
the research that I'd done, if you approach a predator
from a place of understanding, that they're much more likely
to open up. And I said to him, I just
(43:25):
wanted to take this time to talk to you because
we had such a special relationship, and I understand that
that people are sometimes driven by needs and wants that
not everyone understands, but we understand. And I just I
(43:46):
felt like I needed to talk to you because some
of what happened between us has impacted me in a
really big way in my life, and I just feel
like I need to hear it acknowledged. I just like
I feel like I need, I need us to sort
of talk about that. And he said, oh, I don't.
(44:08):
I don't know what you mean. And I said, well,
when you you.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Touched me, Peter, when you rate me.
Speaker 5 (44:15):
And at that point she walked in and he was
just standing there with a cup and the tea bag
kind of frozen, and she said straight away, what's going on,
what's wrong? And I said, well, I just I was
just talking to Peter because well, he used to used
(44:38):
to touch me, Leslie, used to rate me. And she
kind of closed her card again and she went, oh,
I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
I can't imagine him doing.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
Anything like that, and then grabbed my hands and said,
but thank you so much for coming and talking to us.
And we then sat down at the table and talked
for forty five minutes, small small talk, but also I
kept coming back to and he said his reaction was
very much, Oh, I can't remember. I might I must
(45:10):
have blanked out, but I'm so sorry that I did
that to you. And so we just kept that was
like on a reel. It just kept wrong on this
conversation and his desperation. He was in tears at times.
I'm so sorry that you felt that way, and thank you.
Kept thanking me for coming and talking to him, which
(45:35):
I imagine was his way of discharging the fear that I
would go and speak to someone else.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
I wrap it up with a nice, pretty bow. Right now,
she won't.
Speaker 5 (45:45):
Go anywhere else, completely unaware that I had a wire
on and with the police in my ear, but they
were listening, and we continued to talk. We talked about
my kids, their kids, what everyone was doing, and then
they were inviting me to come back, let's all have
dinner together. So I wrapped it up and just by saying, look,
(46:08):
thank you for a for inviting me into your home,
but just thank you for acknowledging that that makes so
many things fall into place and just made me feel
so much better.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
And that was just bye bye.
Speaker 5 (46:21):
And I walked out the door and nearly collapsed and
then got to the car and Scott just said, thank you.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
That is.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Extraordinary, finest piece of acting I've ever done.
Speaker 6 (46:35):
Maybe, well, how's that? But you know, it's such a
strange thing because if you think about and I saw
Amanda Lee in the sixty minute story that you did
about this, she couldn't have done it. Those other kids
couldn't do it. And it's as though your life and
(46:56):
the choices that you made subsequent to that placed you
perfectly with a dose of incredible. As I said, courage
the warrior, what are the odds?
Speaker 1 (47:10):
I know?
Speaker 6 (47:11):
I mean, you were talking about the statistics of children
that are sexually abused, and part of what brought that
home to you was, in the wake of you embarking
on your own justice, how many people approached you or
(47:31):
contacted you.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
At its height, I was being approached by between five
to eight people in the street every day just to
share their experience aid to thank me for my bravery.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
I feel there you go.
Speaker 5 (47:49):
It's almost like one to put inverted commas because I'm
too embarrassed to own it.
Speaker 3 (47:54):
Thank me for my bravery.
Speaker 5 (47:56):
But up to this date, since first making my initial
disclosure publicly, I've had in excess of forty thousand, close
to fifty thousand Australians who've emailed me, messaged me, stop
me in the street, who have been part of my
inner outer circle, associates, work colleagues to disclose that it
(48:20):
happened to them. Now, I'm just one person walking around
on the planet. If I can be a magnet for
that degree of disclosures, then how big is this issue?
And tell you right now it is enormous and it
does not get the traction that it deserves. I'm going
(48:42):
to take a little moment here to acknowledge my therapist
to name was Vada Shepherd, and she was a victim
of trauma herself, of quite horrific trauma, and she taught
me how to mitigate my trauma response. Now, for those
of you, it's become almost a hashtag trauma, But for
(49:04):
those who suffered a significant trauma in their formative years,
it becomes enmeshed in who you are, becomes part of
you can't rationalize it.
Speaker 6 (49:14):
All.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
This thing happened to me when I was a child,
but that was then, this is now.
Speaker 3 (49:20):
There's a cli distinction for someone who's experienced that.
Speaker 5 (49:23):
When they're triggered, you go straight back to that place
where you're under threat, someone's about to hurt you, and
you go one of two ways. There's the dorsal vagel response,
where your body starts goes to sleep. It's like the
animal rolling over and bearing, exposing its bally awesome yep
to the predator. Or you go into the hypo arousal,
(49:45):
where you go a bit nutty, where you're in fvit
or flight.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
You're doing a million things at once hyperventilation.
Speaker 6 (49:50):
And I guess which one? Can I get? Switch one?
Speaker 1 (49:52):
You are I go into.
Speaker 5 (49:54):
In most of my I spend most of my functional
life in fight or flight, all the time mitigating something
bad happening. But when I'm actually confronted by confrontation or
I'm scared or I'm under threat, I go into dorsalvagel,
where I will literally fall asleep. And I've been known
to be having an argument with someone and I will
literally drive them batty, but I will have literally dozed off.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
I'll just I'm confronted, something bad is going to happen.
I just shut down.
Speaker 5 (50:22):
She taught me how to mitigate that. She taught me
breathing techniques, visualization techniques, physical exercises, almost like preparing to
stroll onto a stage. And we're talking about vocal warm
ups earlier. She taught me how to mitigate that. And
so when we were sitting in a car at five
am before I went in, I was going into dorsal vagel,
(50:45):
I was starting to nod off. I was falling asleep,
and I said to Scott, I can't do this. I'm
just not here. I can't do this. And he grabbed
my hands and he said, Madeline, just act. That's what
you're good at. Pretend that you're a woman who has
been horrifically wronged. You go in there and you seek justice.
(51:08):
And I went, oh, okay. I woke up and I went.
I marched in there and I did what I had
to do. But I wanted to touch on Varda because she,
and this is quite I've never really spoken about this,
but she she developed secondary breast cancer whilst my case
(51:31):
was playing out in court, and she didn't tell anyone
that she was sick.
Speaker 3 (51:35):
She just started.
Speaker 5 (51:36):
She became close friends with Scott and his beautiful partner.
She was an adored mentor to me, and yet suddenly
she just sort of disappeared off the scene. And she'd
send us into mitent texts, just checking on us and
telling us how much she loved us. And we found
out from her daughter the last Varda was coming in
(52:02):
out of consciousness and Scott had messaged her phone to
let her know that Peter had pled guilty and was
going to jail, and she passed away the same day.
She'd hold on till that last minute, that very last minute,
(52:24):
to ensure justice was served, and then she let go.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
And that just breaks my heart that she didn't tell me.
That I found out afterwards, and I understand why, but
that this woman have a fortitude to move through her
own traumas and assist me to seek justice on behalf
of so many she said earlier, who don't have the agency,
(52:52):
who don't have the opportunity, for all the other victims
in this case and all the cases across the centuries,
and for everyone right here now, living and breathing who
has experienced this as a small, defenseless, vulnerable child, for
me to be able to get up there and get
justice on behalf of everyone.
Speaker 5 (53:09):
She waited to ensure justice had been served before she
let herself go.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
And for me, that's the most important story, a part
of the whole story.
Speaker 6 (53:20):
Men, it's all it's all important. It's all important. And also,
I imagine from her there was a degree also of
not wanting to add to what was already, what you're
already enduring, and what you had to gird your loins.
Speaker 3 (53:37):
And she knew me too well.
Speaker 5 (53:38):
She knew that I would have cooked up a couple
of casseroles, and I would have been on her doorstep,
banging on the door, demanding to be let in. And
so she chose her path, and that path was one
of love and support to her up right up until
her final breath.
Speaker 6 (53:54):
Madeline West, what does the future hold beyond you holding
your newest baby in three weeks time? What do you
say for yourself now as you step into the future.
Speaker 5 (54:12):
I see myself living large, laughing loud, loving hard, with
none of the barriers that stopped me doing that in
the past. I see me continuing to do the work
(54:32):
that I do in assisting victims to become not just survivors,
but you know, heroes in their own life, to acknowledge
that you've really you've survived something phenomenal. My focus is very,
very firmly on being the best mum I can be
(54:54):
and being the best person I can be, to continue
being a contributing global citizen. I like to feel in
my own small way that what I've been through has
enabled me to leave a legacy and to be yeah,
to continue that work and just being present, really just
(55:17):
smelling the roses and gosh, to have come this far
and I have lived a very big life to come
this far, but to really just be present and to
appreciate every moment for what it is and stop rushing
headlong into the future. To be right here, right now,
(55:41):
and to be so grateful to be right here right now,
so to live gracefully and gratefully without apology.
Speaker 6 (55:54):
Ah Madeline West Melanie, and.
Speaker 5 (55:58):
I embraced that name, ah that little girl she is
in me. Now I feel like I'm a bush godl
that is being perfectly put together, and I've the jigsaw
puzzle that makes up my life is complete.
Speaker 6 (56:17):
I cannot thank you enough, not just for sharing your
story with no filter in our listeners, but also for
your valiance, proper, proper valiance.
Speaker 3 (56:35):
That is so beautiful. Thank you for that.
Speaker 5 (56:39):
I would have never attached that word to myself on
popping that in my CV, because I love it. I
suppose it's a word I wouldn't have associated with myself
because valiance comes with a really strong image of being armored,
you know, armor, the white knight writing on his noble steed.
(57:02):
And it's only now that I've let my armor drop
for so many for most of my life, like my
New year Is resolution every year was to pull on
the boxing gloves, and this year, I'm.
Speaker 3 (57:13):
Going to fight.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
I'm going to fight.
Speaker 3 (57:15):
I'm going to fight. I'm not going to fight anymore.
Speaker 6 (57:19):
Thanks Matt, Thanks so gorgeous having a chat. This is
one of the most astounding conversations that I've ever had.
I said this to Madeline after the interview, that I
just wanted to thank her for being so honest with
me and with you our listeners, and the fact that
(57:41):
she has allowed so many people to find the courage
to speak out. She's proven herself to be so resourceful,
so resilient and in a word that's bandied around far
too often. She is the definition of bravery. The executive
producer of No Filter is Naima Brown. Senior producer is
(58:04):
Grace Rufray. Sound design is by Jacob Brown. And I'm
your host, Kate lane Brook. I'll be back with you
next week. And if this episode brings up any hard
feelings and you need to talk to one, We've put
some links to resources in the show notes.
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