January 22, 2025 • 29 mins
In this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, Harriet is joined by Chris Edwards General Manager of Corporate Affairs & Advocacy. Chris talks about Vision Australia’s advocacy wins and projects from 2024 Chris is also himself a Seeing Eye Dogs handler. He brings his lived experience as handler to Seeing Eye Dog Eva to his work advocating for dog guide handlers. We recorded this at the end of 2024 so please note this year said throughout the interview refers to 2024! Topics covered: the team’s work in rideshare and taxi advocacy, aviation and airline travel, electric cars and NDIS matters. For more information on the advocacy department you can visit the website at visionaustralia.org/about-us/advocacy.
If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/
If you’re blind or have low vision and are interested in dog guide mobility, our friendly team is happy to chat with you about becoming a handler. You can email us at info@sed.org.au or call 1800 037 773 to chat about dog guide mobility.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:11):
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. On this episode,
I'm joined by Chris Edwards, general manager of corporate affairs
and advocacy at Vision Australia. He's going to talk to
us about Vision Australia's advocacy wins and projects from 2024.
Chris is also himself a senior dogs handler, so he
(00:33):
brings his lived experience to his work advocating for dog handlers.
We recorded this at the end of 2024, so please
note that this year said throughout this interview refers to 2024.
We're going to be talking about the team's work, including
in rideshare and taxi advocacy, aka point to point aviation
(00:54):
and airline travel, electric cars and NDIS matters. For more
information on the advocacy department, you can visit the website
at Vision australia.org/about hyphen US forward slash advocacy and keep listening.
Now here's my interview with Chris. Hi Chris. Thanks for
(01:21):
joining me on the show today.
S2 (01:22):
Thanks very much. It's great to be here.
S1 (01:25):
I'd love if you can start off and just introduce
yourself and your role at Vision Australia, please.
S2 (01:30):
Yeah, thanks. I'm Chris Edwards, I'm the general manager of
corporate affairs and advocacy for Vision Australia. So we look
after our government relations. We look after our policy and
advocacy area, particularly focusing on systemic advocacy. And we also
look after our NDIS and aged care leads, which helps
(01:52):
advise the organisation on all things NDIS and aged care matters.
S1 (01:57):
I think you've actually had a title change since we
last spoke. I was like, oh, that sounds new. Um.
S3 (02:03):
But yeah, it's the same thing.
S2 (02:05):
It's similar. It's similar. We've also got, uh, our external
comms area that, uh, fits comes within our area. So
that's going to really help us strengthen our messages across
the community.
S1 (02:20):
So it's been you know, we're talking again about 2024
and the year that was. So I'd love if we
can chat about, I guess, some of the things that
you got up to or the wins for your team.
So I think one of the probably biggest topics that
we have for our senior dog handlers is around your
kind of point to point transport. What does that mean?
And what happened in that space last year?
S2 (02:42):
Yeah, thanks very much. Clearly, you know, refusals in point
to point transport, whether it's rideshare or taxis, remains a
key issue for handlers and causes. You know, a great
deal of anxiety, stress. And, you know, it's an issue
that is clearly, you know, one of the biggest discrimination
(03:03):
areas that we face in Australia. And so our team
certainly understands that and has been working across multiple levels
to actually try and help resolve that. And so we've
been working, you know, with regulators across different states on
(03:23):
various working groups and been working directly with taxi companies
and with rideshare companies like Uber to to try and
resolve that. Everybody's frustrated about this experience that's getting. And
so we've been, you know, looking at how do we
strengthen the policy regulations. How do we deliver more education
(03:48):
and how do we help with our enforcement across that area.
S1 (03:52):
And you guys have actually done some very good stuff
on education this year, didn't you, with the rideshare and
point to point companies.
S2 (03:59):
We've done a number of education programs. So in Victoria
we did a terrific campaign with Safety Transport Victoria, which
released a number of videos that are aimed at drivers
to educate them. We did some podcasts, but really importantly,
we worked very closely with Uber to ensure that all
(04:22):
drivers on the platform receive training in particularly assistance animals. Before,
you know, there was some training, but it was involved
with a broader disability training. And so because this remains
such a key issue, we worked with Uber to develop
some training to ensure that all drivers are very clear
(04:43):
on what the law is, the impact of refusing for
people and importantly, what Uber policy is. And so for
all drivers to remain on the platform, they had to
complete this training, which involved watching a Watching a video
to learn about that and to, uh, successfully answer a quiz.
S1 (05:06):
I guess it's going to be a kind of continuing
piece with those companies, more with the drivers and and
working towards getting that that down. So I guess work
is never quite done.
S2 (05:16):
You're absolutely right. It's that it's not a set and forget, uh, issue.
And we certainly saw some very positive signs after the training. I've,
you know, met with Uber recently. They say that they
send out messages every week and more detailed messages, you know,
fortnightly or monthly to remind drivers that it is not
(05:38):
an option to refuse handlers. And the same thing we've
been working with cab companies like one three cabs, who
are also seeing this as a key focus to try
and improve the situation, to to avoid refusals. You know,
this work will continue to be done until, uh, Everybody's
(05:59):
very clear. And we we see, you know, those refusals
drop off.
S1 (06:03):
And so a lot of the work that you guys
do I mean, in my mind at least, it feels
like quite lengthy process, I guess from the start of
a campaign to kind of when. So I think I
spoke with one of your advocacy team. I think really
it was maybe 2023 when we spoke about electric cars,
but you actually have results on, on that. Could you
(06:24):
tell us a little bit about electric cars in your
campaign and you know what results you've got?
S2 (06:29):
Yeah, I think that's very true. I think, you know,
there's very rarely in policy and changing systemic advocacy that
it happens super quickly every now and again. It does.
We had a recent win in New South Wales around
the Education Department and around their policy in assistance animals
in school recently where, you know, we can, you know,
(06:51):
work with them. And they understood the situation and we
can make change. However, most of the time we need
to be quite resilient and persistent and have a very
clear strategy to make policy change.
S3 (07:03):
A lot of patience.
S2 (07:06):
And determination and don't take no for an answer. But
I think also importantly, continuing to work collaboratively, you can
certainly express your opinion in systemic advocacy very strongly in
opposition and certainly articulate that. But in my experience where
you're working together to go, okay, this is a problem
(07:27):
that's unacceptable and that we need to get a solution
that is going to work for everybody. You tend to
get better outcomes. So one of those was around electric vehicles.
Obviously the community saw the issue of as these new
vehicles came on the roads. The key thing that, you know,
someone who's blind knows when they're crossing a road or
(07:49):
a driveway is that they can hear the car to
ensure that they stay out of the way. With electric vehicles,
particularly when they're When they're traveling slowly, there's no sound.
And so obviously creates a great, great danger for people
who are blind and low vision. And to be honest,
for everybody in the community, that might be a bit
distracted with a pram or etc.. And so we set
(08:13):
out five years ago to ensure that Australia introduces design
rules within the vehicles that make sure that all electric
vehicles that come into Australia have minimum noise levels when
they're travelling slowly. And so yeah, long story short, after
(08:34):
a number of campaigns, lots of work with different areas
of government, a key thing to support, uh, you know,
the policy work that was happening and getting submissions into that. Yeah.
We finally got an outcome this year when the Assistant
Minister for transport, Carol Brown, at the time, gave me
(08:56):
a call one Friday and said, believe it or not,
I've just signed off the new design rule and as
of 2026, all electric vehicles will have this minimum noise level.
S1 (09:06):
Which is amazing. It really I mean, that's one of
those things that's really going to save lives or, you know,
at least reduce a lot of stress or injury or
near misses all of that type of stuff, isn't it?
I mean, it's, um, especially as electric cars become more common. Um,
it's kind of a little bit like nipping as well in,
in the bud before it becomes more of a problem.
S2 (09:29):
Yeah. It was, it was certainly, you know, time was
of the essence because it's very hard to retrospectively, uh, introduce,
you know, these design rules for cars that are on
the road. And so the longer the delay was means
that there's more cars on the road without these features. And, uh, and,
you know, and I was very proud, like yesterday, I
(09:49):
caught an Uber into work and, and as the car
came down the street, that was admitting this. You know
what is what is a very subtle noise, but one
that you can hear and think, how good is that?
That we've been able to influence that all cars in
the future will make that noise and make it safer
for everybody.
S1 (10:07):
Your advocacy in action.
S3 (10:10):
Which is. Yeah.
S2 (10:11):
Yeah, it was, it was quite. Yeah. It's it was
pretty good. It was like, you know, it's it you
know knowing that and, and I think the really important
thing about it is it's whilst it's particularly relevant to
people who are blind and low vision, the reality is
it makes it safer for, you know, the whole community,
even sighted people when they're walking along the footpath and
(10:32):
there's a car going about to pull out of a
driveway behind a, you know, a big fence or a hedge. Yeah.
The only thing that they know that that's going to
happen is because they can hear the car. And so
everyone's going to be safe.
S1 (10:44):
And your advocacy in 2024, it wasn't only on the roads. Um,
you were also looking at the aviation space. Um, so
we're tackling the skies as well, which is pretty, pretty cool.
What changes or work was done around the aviation space?
S2 (11:00):
Aviation is one of those things that is, you know,
I think a fairly stressful experience for everybody. And when
you're blind or low vision and when you're a seeing
eye dog or guide dog handler, it becomes, I think,
even more stressful for for a lot of people. And so, yeah,
we've done, again, a lot of collaborative work with different
(11:23):
parts of the aviation sector. We made submissions more broadly
to the aviation White paper and green paper, which sets
out the future for aviation for the next 20 years.
And it was very pleasing to see that accessibility was
a key aspect of that. We've worked at a policy
(11:44):
level around some aviation committees that are looking at, you know,
the broader direction that aviation takes, and how do we
turn that into some practical things that the aviation sector
needs to do? And then we did some very practical issues,
particularly focusing on two aspects. One is around airport security,
(12:07):
where people find that the process at the moment through
airport security is quite stressful and quite invasive. The way
that a pat down is done. And so we've worked
with the various airports and security to ensure that that
experience is minimised. And I think that the key thing
(12:28):
that I to tell our listeners is that if you're
going through security, you know, you should be able to,
at the minimum, receive a wand pat down. So one
where they use electronic wand and not necessarily a hand.
And if your security person is reluctant to do that,
feel free to just escalate that and say, can I
please have your supervisor because I'm not comfortable in that.
(12:51):
And and they can do that. What we're hoping is
early next year, in the first quarter of next year,
we will see some changes through some of the advocacy
work that we've done to the rules around security. And
we'll be able to talk about that. We should be
able to even have more options around how people go
(13:13):
through security to be to be less invasive.
S1 (13:16):
And I don't know if that was kind of something
that you covered, but around separating the dog from the handler.
S2 (13:24):
Clearly, one of the the rules that is quite restrictive
in the way that the security guards can process people
through airport security, is that there's a very clear rule
to not separate the dog from the handler. Whilst that
was designed to rule so that, you know, a security
(13:45):
person you know won't take the dog away from the person,
it also limits the limits the options that the process
that can happen. And so that's one of the actual
areas that is being reviewed in some new guidelines that
says that, you know, there is greater scope to where
somebody wants to go through a different option to be
(14:06):
able to release the dog.
S1 (14:08):
I guess just kind of reinforcing all of those things,
that there are other options. It doesn't have to be
kind of as stressful and invasive, I think. I think
there's some degree that for some people, airports are generally
stressful regardless.
S3 (14:22):
But yeah.
S1 (14:23):
Minimizing I guess as, as much as possible.
S2 (14:27):
And I think that I think that's really important. And like,
and some of these things aren't in place yet to
so to be very clear, uh, but, you know, I
have seen some drafts of some new guidelines around, uh, how, uh,
security will work. And I'm happy to come back next
year when when they've been released. I'm very confident that
(14:48):
the new guidelines, which will be a national framework now,
will hopefully help for two things get a bit of
consistency around airports and also provide some options to help
the comfort of people and their experience.
S1 (15:05):
And even before you get to the airport, um, that
kind of booking process, especially with an assistance dog, can
be a little bit different and potentially more challenging than
traveller without that particular aid. What has been done around
that side of, you know, airline travel?
S2 (15:22):
Yeah. Thank you. We have been working a lot with
airlines around this particular issue. I think it needs to
be sort of clear for your listeners that are seeing
eye dog or dog handlers. Is that the first time
you fly with an airline? There will be some extra
requirements around the type of documentation you need to provide,
(15:45):
and that's just simply to ensure that the particular dog
that you're traveling with is an accredited, you know, seeing
eye dog in our case and that that it meets
all the requirements with the airline and under the legislation.
So what we've been doing, and it's great that, you know,
after the first flight, you know, both Jetstar and Virgin
(16:09):
now can, you know, book online and you can basically
part of the process and let them know you're travelling
with an assistance animal and be able to process a
booking that way.
S1 (16:18):
Would that then give you the seats that you would need,
like the extra legroom seats, because it's kind of going
to be part of your profile. Does that make sense?
S2 (16:27):
Yes, that's exactly what should happen to do it. And
I think that it's a two step process that when
you flag that there'll be some, you know, confirmation around
some things to be able to to fly. Qantas still
needs to be contacted by the call centre. To my knowledge,
to this date we have been working with Qantas Around
just improving the accessibility of their forms. We believe that
(16:50):
they're doing some work to to try and improve their
experience online as well. We've also continued to work with
the airlines within various committees and working groups, but also
through education programs. Again, so being released very shortly is
some training that we've done with Jetstar. Training will be
(17:12):
aimed at all airport staff to understand, you know, the
experience of someone who's blind or low vision, using a
seeing eye dog to go through the airport. And so
that will be everything from entering the terminal, checking in,
going to the gate and hopping on board. And so
we've done, you know, a terrific training program with Jetstar
(17:35):
to to try and improve the awareness of, you know,
what sort of things help make it a better experience
for a handler that's, you know, going through the airport.
S1 (17:45):
And I guess it's just one of those things. It's
like educating those staff or just mean that you can
really minimize some of those challenges. I guess in terms
of even like I spoke to a handler not that
long ago who was saying about being at the airport
and trying to find the dog toileting area, but the
staff were kind of like pointing and saying over there
and not aware of the language that they were using
(18:07):
and how unhelpful that was.
S2 (18:10):
Exactly. Some of the things that we were raising in
the training to talk about the language and how to
support and, you know, certainly making people aware that there
is the facility in most airports now, and most of
them are terrific. As well as that, we've worked with
other airlines. So we've been doing a little bit of
work with Virgin Australia, which uh, particularly around, you know,
(18:34):
their new policy of allowing dogs on board. So next,
next year, it's likely that that will continue to Continue
to proceed. What we're assured is that there will be
significant separation between pets that come on board and seeing
eye dogs. So the pets will be behind a certain
(18:57):
row on the plane. You know, let's call it around
row 21. And then, you know, but seeing eye dogs
and dog guides will be still towards the front of
the plane. And we've got to also remember that the
only way that a pet will be on board is
within a locked cage. And so yeah, there won't be
(19:17):
pets roaming around on the plane that might disturb your animal.
S1 (19:22):
Flying is particularly interesting, I think, for any dog for
their first time or first flight. I know how much
preparation that you do to kind of make sure that
either is comfortable. And maybe it's all quite second nature because,
you know, she is such a seasoned traveler as you are.
The idea of bringing pet dogs on planes is is
a very interesting one. I, I'm not sure how much
I look forward to that particular change.
S2 (19:44):
No I. Yeah I. It will be a yeah. A
very interesting uh development in in Australia certainly in America
there's lots of little dogs that hop on planes, but
in Australia these dogs will be in a cage. And, uh,
my understanding is they'll need to be under the seat
in front. So it'll be only very small dogs that
(20:05):
will be coming on board. Yeah. They'll be they'll be
quite restricted in their in their movement, you know. But
I think that the good thing is that the airline
is completely understanding and through the work that we've been
doing and the work that they've been doing themselves, is
that the policies that they put in place want to
ensure that, you know, people that are travelling, you know,
(20:26):
with dog guides won't be negatively impacted.
S1 (20:29):
That's great. I think that's quite reassuring to hear.
S2 (20:33):
The good thing is you're not going to have a
little dog right next to you in the next seat
next to you that, you know, might be distracting for
the whole flight.
S1 (20:41):
So one of the other things under your portfolio is NDIS. Um,
what's been going on in the NDIS space? Kind of
related to dog guides this year.
S2 (20:52):
Look, you know, I think that NDIS is with the
new Act getting the NDIS back on track. Bill has
made some significant clarifications and changes for people. And so
as part of the reforms that is looking at much
broader reforms to the NDIS, which will impact your eligibility
(21:15):
for certain cohorts. It will impact the processes of assessment
and planning. Eventually it will introduce a thing called foundational supports,
where to ensure that, you know, those people that, uh,
may not be quite eligible for NDIS. There is a
system delivered by the state that will support those people,
(21:39):
so they're not left in isolation. All of those changes
will continue to happen. One of the things that has
definitely impacted people is that they've released in section ten
of the act, particular items that will and won't be
funded or supports that will and won't be funded. And
so they've split those into three categories effectively is that
(22:03):
define supports that will be funded defined supports that won't
be funded. And then they've designed this supports called replacement supports.
It's where there'll be some supports. And it's particularly around
equipment that if someone and it tends to be around
mainstream equipment that if there is some general use of
(22:24):
it for someone's disability, they can apply under a replacement
process to say, I want to replace some of my
supports within the plan and purchase this other support being
a bit of technology. An example might be is that
if someone has an accessible home appliance, let's say a
(22:45):
more accessible washing machine, and they they say that, you know, this,
this means that I can independently wash my clothes because
of the accessibility features, etc. what NDIS may do is
to say, okay, yes, we may fund that, however we'll
fund it, but there'll be some supports that you may
(23:05):
need to give up. And that means if you do
get support for home support at the moment with someone
to help support you wash those clothes, there'll be an
expectation that if you purchase that, you'll actually offset some
of those other supports that you're receiving and get and
use less of those. And so, yeah, there will be
some compromises, you know, within your plan where you want
(23:27):
to use the replacement process to do that for handlers,
one of the really key aspects of it is that
NDIS no longer fund pet insurance. So part of a
maintenance cost traditionally is that it's funded. Pet insurance, you know,
now NDIS have made it clear that they won't fund
(23:49):
pet insurance. However, they do fund veterinary costs. And so
if you go to the vet for a check up
or for some treatment, you can claim that within your
plan where those those extraordinary cases and we all know
about those ones where dog's done a cruciate ligament or
a swallowed something, or some things happen where the dog
(24:12):
requires additional veterinary costs. So we all know of those
ones that go to $10,000 or $15,000.
S1 (24:20):
Finally, pocket emergencies.
S2 (24:22):
Yeah, you can apply to the NDIS to get those
additional vet costs funded.
S1 (24:30):
Is that quite guaranteed that they would then pay for that?
S2 (24:34):
Look, if it's an NDIS funded dog guide. Ride. So
this is clearly, if they're not an NDIS funded service animal,
they're not eligible at all for veterinary costs. But where
it is an NDIS funded thing, it's to be tested.
We've certainly lobbied to try and change it. We think
that pet insurance is an important part, and we're still
doing some work with the minister's office and with the
(24:57):
Ndia around this. However, it appears that NDIS are effectively self-insuring.
Instead of paying another insurer to do this, we're wanting
to do some more work with the agency on how
that process will work, because obviously it's a very stressful
situation when your dog is unwell and it happens often
very quickly to be able to, um, to ensure that,
(25:20):
you know, that that decision can be made quickly.
S1 (25:23):
The last thing that you need is kind of the
extra financial pressure on it. You just want the dog
to be well and that's like your priority. So hopefully,
hopefully the NDIS can work that one out so that
you guys get kind of the.
S2 (25:35):
Yeah. So I think that look, you know, they are
committing to the veterinary costs. You know people can apply
for those. And so we're yeah it's reasonable and unavoidable. Yeah.
I don't see why they wouldn't be funded. They're not
in funding pet insurance. But unfortunately it's one of those
things that until we start putting it into practice and
understanding the experiences of people, and certainly where people have
(25:59):
had some experiences that haven't worked out so well, please
contact us at Advocacy at Vision Australia. Org. Because we
would love to work that through, you know, with the
Minister and the agency to to ensure that you know
that the experience does work for people.
S1 (26:18):
Are there any other kind of changes, I guess, that
have been relevant that you'd like to share about from 2024?
S3 (26:25):
Look, you.
S2 (26:25):
Know, I think that, you know, when in doubt, you know,
go to the NDIS website and look at those lists
of what is funded and what is. They've been very
simple language. You know, Yeah. There is a number of,
you know, therapies. You know, some of them, you know,
that are probably unlikely that people are accessing. But you know,
everything from, you know, cuddle therapy, wilderness therapy, you know, Reiki, uh,
(26:49):
goat therapy, all of some of these non-evidence based therapies
are no longer funded. And so, yeah, if you're looking
at a therapy that's probably not traditional and which is
not occupational therapy or, or orthoptics or random or guide
dog mobility instruction, and you're in doubt, you're best to
(27:09):
go to one of those lists and see whether it
is an eligible funding. And so yeah, there's been changes
to music therapy recently. And so, um, yeah, the best
thing to do is check and then you won't have
a shock when the NDIS contact you and say, that's
not an eligible funded service.
S1 (27:28):
Is there anything else? Um, just to finish off that,
you would like to share about your kind of work
and your department's work in 2024.
S2 (27:36):
Look, I think that the great thing about our work,
it's never done. There's always systemic change that we need
to make to try and improve inclusion and access for
people blind, low vision in all sort of various aspects
of life. We're really excited about, you know, the changes
within our team that is combining some of that, that
(27:59):
policy and advocacy and work with communications. And so I
think it'll be a pretty exciting year. You'll see some
bigger campaigns to try and help with, you know, changing
community attitude, changing the attitude, you know, with with various
aspects of community life.
S1 (28:20):
Well very exciting. Lots to come. And it sounds like
you like to be busy. So there you are.
S2 (28:25):
Yeah. It's, uh, it makes the year go very quickly.
Like this year. It's hard to believe that we're just
just about there.
S1 (28:33):
Well, thank you so much for joining me on the
show and for all of the work that you're doing. Um, yeah,
in all of those exciting spaces.
S2 (28:40):
Absolute pleasure, Harriet, and look forward to, uh, touching base
next year when we have some of these things that
we've been working on come to fruition.
S1 (28:53):
I hope you enjoyed my interview with Chris Edwards, general
manager of corporate affairs and advocacy at Vision Australia. You
can head to the website at Vision Australia. About us. Advocacy.
For more information on advocacy at Vision Australia or head
to the Seeing Eye Dogs website at Vision Australia. For
(29:17):
more information on Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do
before becoming a handler or how you can help, don't
forget to tune in. Same time next week for another
episode of The Seeing Eye Dog Show.
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. On this episode,
I'm joined by Chris Edwards, general manager of corporate affairs
and advocacy at Vision Australia. He's going to talk to
us about Vision Australia's advocacy wins and projects from 2024.
Chris is also himself a senior dogs handler, so he
(00:33):
brings his lived experience to his work advocating for dog handlers.
We recorded this at the end of 2024, so please
note that this year said throughout this interview refers to 2024.
We're going to be talking about the team's work, including
in rideshare and taxi advocacy, aka point to point aviation
(00:54):
and airline travel, electric cars and NDIS matters. For more
information on the advocacy department, you can visit the website
at Vision australia.org/about hyphen US forward slash advocacy and keep listening.
Now here's my interview with Chris. Hi Chris. Thanks for
(01:21):
joining me on the show today.
S2 (01:22):
Thanks very much. It's great to be here.
S1 (01:25):
I'd love if you can start off and just introduce
yourself and your role at Vision Australia, please.
S2 (01:30):
Yeah, thanks. I'm Chris Edwards, I'm the general manager of
corporate affairs and advocacy for Vision Australia. So we look
after our government relations. We look after our policy and
advocacy area, particularly focusing on systemic advocacy. And we also
look after our NDIS and aged care leads, which helps
(01:52):
advise the organisation on all things NDIS and aged care matters.
S1 (01:57):
I think you've actually had a title change since we
last spoke. I was like, oh, that sounds new. Um.
S3 (02:03):
But yeah, it's the same thing.
S2 (02:05):
It's similar. It's similar. We've also got, uh, our external
comms area that, uh, fits comes within our area. So
that's going to really help us strengthen our messages across
the community.
S1 (02:20):
So it's been you know, we're talking again about 2024
and the year that was. So I'd love if we
can chat about, I guess, some of the things that
you got up to or the wins for your team.
So I think one of the probably biggest topics that
we have for our senior dog handlers is around your
kind of point to point transport. What does that mean?
And what happened in that space last year?
S2 (02:42):
Yeah, thanks very much. Clearly, you know, refusals in point
to point transport, whether it's rideshare or taxis, remains a
key issue for handlers and causes. You know, a great
deal of anxiety, stress. And, you know, it's an issue
that is clearly, you know, one of the biggest discrimination
(03:03):
areas that we face in Australia. And so our team
certainly understands that and has been working across multiple levels
to actually try and help resolve that. And so we've
been working, you know, with regulators across different states on
(03:23):
various working groups and been working directly with taxi companies
and with rideshare companies like Uber to to try and
resolve that. Everybody's frustrated about this experience that's getting. And
so we've been, you know, looking at how do we
strengthen the policy regulations. How do we deliver more education
(03:48):
and how do we help with our enforcement across that area.
S1 (03:52):
And you guys have actually done some very good stuff
on education this year, didn't you, with the rideshare and
point to point companies.
S2 (03:59):
We've done a number of education programs. So in Victoria
we did a terrific campaign with Safety Transport Victoria, which
released a number of videos that are aimed at drivers
to educate them. We did some podcasts, but really importantly,
we worked very closely with Uber to ensure that all
(04:22):
drivers on the platform receive training in particularly assistance animals. Before,
you know, there was some training, but it was involved
with a broader disability training. And so because this remains
such a key issue, we worked with Uber to develop
some training to ensure that all drivers are very clear
(04:43):
on what the law is, the impact of refusing for
people and importantly, what Uber policy is. And so for
all drivers to remain on the platform, they had to
complete this training, which involved watching a Watching a video
to learn about that and to, uh, successfully answer a quiz.
S1 (05:06):
I guess it's going to be a kind of continuing
piece with those companies, more with the drivers and and
working towards getting that that down. So I guess work
is never quite done.
S2 (05:16):
You're absolutely right. It's that it's not a set and forget, uh, issue.
And we certainly saw some very positive signs after the training. I've,
you know, met with Uber recently. They say that they
send out messages every week and more detailed messages, you know,
fortnightly or monthly to remind drivers that it is not
(05:38):
an option to refuse handlers. And the same thing we've
been working with cab companies like one three cabs, who
are also seeing this as a key focus to try
and improve the situation, to to avoid refusals. You know,
this work will continue to be done until, uh, Everybody's
(05:59):
very clear. And we we see, you know, those refusals
drop off.
S1 (06:03):
And so a lot of the work that you guys
do I mean, in my mind at least, it feels
like quite lengthy process, I guess from the start of
a campaign to kind of when. So I think I
spoke with one of your advocacy team. I think really
it was maybe 2023 when we spoke about electric cars,
but you actually have results on, on that. Could you
(06:24):
tell us a little bit about electric cars in your
campaign and you know what results you've got?
S2 (06:29):
Yeah, I think that's very true. I think, you know,
there's very rarely in policy and changing systemic advocacy that
it happens super quickly every now and again. It does.
We had a recent win in New South Wales around
the Education Department and around their policy in assistance animals
in school recently where, you know, we can, you know,
(06:51):
work with them. And they understood the situation and we
can make change. However, most of the time we need
to be quite resilient and persistent and have a very
clear strategy to make policy change.
S3 (07:03):
A lot of patience.
S2 (07:06):
And determination and don't take no for an answer. But
I think also importantly, continuing to work collaboratively, you can
certainly express your opinion in systemic advocacy very strongly in
opposition and certainly articulate that. But in my experience where
you're working together to go, okay, this is a problem
(07:27):
that's unacceptable and that we need to get a solution
that is going to work for everybody. You tend to
get better outcomes. So one of those was around electric vehicles.
Obviously the community saw the issue of as these new
vehicles came on the roads. The key thing that, you know,
someone who's blind knows when they're crossing a road or
(07:49):
a driveway is that they can hear the car to
ensure that they stay out of the way. With electric vehicles,
particularly when they're When they're traveling slowly, there's no sound.
And so obviously creates a great, great danger for people
who are blind and low vision. And to be honest,
for everybody in the community, that might be a bit
distracted with a pram or etc.. And so we set
(08:13):
out five years ago to ensure that Australia introduces design
rules within the vehicles that make sure that all electric
vehicles that come into Australia have minimum noise levels when
they're travelling slowly. And so yeah, long story short, after
(08:34):
a number of campaigns, lots of work with different areas
of government, a key thing to support, uh, you know,
the policy work that was happening and getting submissions into that. Yeah.
We finally got an outcome this year when the Assistant
Minister for transport, Carol Brown, at the time, gave me
(08:56):
a call one Friday and said, believe it or not,
I've just signed off the new design rule and as
of 2026, all electric vehicles will have this minimum noise level.
S1 (09:06):
Which is amazing. It really I mean, that's one of
those things that's really going to save lives or, you know,
at least reduce a lot of stress or injury or
near misses all of that type of stuff, isn't it?
I mean, it's, um, especially as electric cars become more common. Um,
it's kind of a little bit like nipping as well in,
in the bud before it becomes more of a problem.
S2 (09:29):
Yeah. It was, it was certainly, you know, time was
of the essence because it's very hard to retrospectively, uh, introduce,
you know, these design rules for cars that are on
the road. And so the longer the delay was means
that there's more cars on the road without these features. And, uh, and,
you know, and I was very proud, like yesterday, I
(09:49):
caught an Uber into work and, and as the car
came down the street, that was admitting this. You know
what is what is a very subtle noise, but one
that you can hear and think, how good is that?
That we've been able to influence that all cars in
the future will make that noise and make it safer
for everybody.
S1 (10:07):
Your advocacy in action.
S3 (10:10):
Which is. Yeah.
S2 (10:11):
Yeah, it was, it was quite. Yeah. It's it was
pretty good. It was like, you know, it's it you
know knowing that and, and I think the really important
thing about it is it's whilst it's particularly relevant to
people who are blind and low vision, the reality is
it makes it safer for, you know, the whole community,
even sighted people when they're walking along the footpath and
(10:32):
there's a car going about to pull out of a
driveway behind a, you know, a big fence or a hedge. Yeah.
The only thing that they know that that's going to
happen is because they can hear the car. And so
everyone's going to be safe.
S1 (10:44):
And your advocacy in 2024, it wasn't only on the roads. Um,
you were also looking at the aviation space. Um, so
we're tackling the skies as well, which is pretty, pretty cool.
What changes or work was done around the aviation space?
S2 (11:00):
Aviation is one of those things that is, you know,
I think a fairly stressful experience for everybody. And when
you're blind or low vision and when you're a seeing
eye dog or guide dog handler, it becomes, I think,
even more stressful for for a lot of people. And so, yeah,
we've done, again, a lot of collaborative work with different
(11:23):
parts of the aviation sector. We made submissions more broadly
to the aviation White paper and green paper, which sets
out the future for aviation for the next 20 years.
And it was very pleasing to see that accessibility was
a key aspect of that. We've worked at a policy
(11:44):
level around some aviation committees that are looking at, you know,
the broader direction that aviation takes, and how do we
turn that into some practical things that the aviation sector
needs to do? And then we did some very practical issues,
particularly focusing on two aspects. One is around airport security,
(12:07):
where people find that the process at the moment through
airport security is quite stressful and quite invasive. The way
that a pat down is done. And so we've worked
with the various airports and security to ensure that that
experience is minimised. And I think that the key thing
(12:28):
that I to tell our listeners is that if you're
going through security, you know, you should be able to,
at the minimum, receive a wand pat down. So one
where they use electronic wand and not necessarily a hand.
And if your security person is reluctant to do that,
feel free to just escalate that and say, can I
please have your supervisor because I'm not comfortable in that.
(12:51):
And and they can do that. What we're hoping is
early next year, in the first quarter of next year,
we will see some changes through some of the advocacy
work that we've done to the rules around security. And
we'll be able to talk about that. We should be
able to even have more options around how people go
(13:13):
through security to be to be less invasive.
S1 (13:16):
And I don't know if that was kind of something
that you covered, but around separating the dog from the handler.
S2 (13:24):
Clearly, one of the the rules that is quite restrictive
in the way that the security guards can process people
through airport security, is that there's a very clear rule
to not separate the dog from the handler. Whilst that
was designed to rule so that, you know, a security
(13:45):
person you know won't take the dog away from the person,
it also limits the limits the options that the process
that can happen. And so that's one of the actual
areas that is being reviewed in some new guidelines that
says that, you know, there is greater scope to where
somebody wants to go through a different option to be
(14:06):
able to release the dog.
S1 (14:08):
I guess just kind of reinforcing all of those things,
that there are other options. It doesn't have to be
kind of as stressful and invasive, I think. I think
there's some degree that for some people, airports are generally
stressful regardless.
S3 (14:22):
But yeah.
S1 (14:23):
Minimizing I guess as, as much as possible.
S2 (14:27):
And I think that I think that's really important. And like,
and some of these things aren't in place yet to
so to be very clear, uh, but, you know, I
have seen some drafts of some new guidelines around, uh, how, uh,
security will work. And I'm happy to come back next
year when when they've been released. I'm very confident that
(14:48):
the new guidelines, which will be a national framework now,
will hopefully help for two things get a bit of
consistency around airports and also provide some options to help
the comfort of people and their experience.
S1 (15:05):
And even before you get to the airport, um, that
kind of booking process, especially with an assistance dog, can
be a little bit different and potentially more challenging than
traveller without that particular aid. What has been done around
that side of, you know, airline travel?
S2 (15:22):
Yeah. Thank you. We have been working a lot with
airlines around this particular issue. I think it needs to
be sort of clear for your listeners that are seeing
eye dog or dog handlers. Is that the first time
you fly with an airline? There will be some extra
requirements around the type of documentation you need to provide,
(15:45):
and that's just simply to ensure that the particular dog
that you're traveling with is an accredited, you know, seeing
eye dog in our case and that that it meets
all the requirements with the airline and under the legislation.
So what we've been doing, and it's great that, you know,
after the first flight, you know, both Jetstar and Virgin
(16:09):
now can, you know, book online and you can basically
part of the process and let them know you're travelling
with an assistance animal and be able to process a
booking that way.
S1 (16:18):
Would that then give you the seats that you would need,
like the extra legroom seats, because it's kind of going
to be part of your profile. Does that make sense?
S2 (16:27):
Yes, that's exactly what should happen to do it. And
I think that it's a two step process that when
you flag that there'll be some, you know, confirmation around
some things to be able to to fly. Qantas still
needs to be contacted by the call centre. To my knowledge,
to this date we have been working with Qantas Around
just improving the accessibility of their forms. We believe that
(16:50):
they're doing some work to to try and improve their
experience online as well. We've also continued to work with
the airlines within various committees and working groups, but also
through education programs. Again, so being released very shortly is
some training that we've done with Jetstar. Training will be
(17:12):
aimed at all airport staff to understand, you know, the
experience of someone who's blind or low vision, using a
seeing eye dog to go through the airport. And so
that will be everything from entering the terminal, checking in,
going to the gate and hopping on board. And so
we've done, you know, a terrific training program with Jetstar
(17:35):
to to try and improve the awareness of, you know,
what sort of things help make it a better experience
for a handler that's, you know, going through the airport.
S1 (17:45):
And I guess it's just one of those things. It's
like educating those staff or just mean that you can
really minimize some of those challenges. I guess in terms
of even like I spoke to a handler not that
long ago who was saying about being at the airport
and trying to find the dog toileting area, but the
staff were kind of like pointing and saying over there
and not aware of the language that they were using
(18:07):
and how unhelpful that was.
S2 (18:10):
Exactly. Some of the things that we were raising in
the training to talk about the language and how to
support and, you know, certainly making people aware that there
is the facility in most airports now, and most of
them are terrific. As well as that, we've worked with
other airlines. So we've been doing a little bit of
work with Virgin Australia, which uh, particularly around, you know,
(18:34):
their new policy of allowing dogs on board. So next,
next year, it's likely that that will continue to Continue
to proceed. What we're assured is that there will be
significant separation between pets that come on board and seeing
eye dogs. So the pets will be behind a certain
(18:57):
row on the plane. You know, let's call it around
row 21. And then, you know, but seeing eye dogs
and dog guides will be still towards the front of
the plane. And we've got to also remember that the
only way that a pet will be on board is
within a locked cage. And so yeah, there won't be
(19:17):
pets roaming around on the plane that might disturb your animal.
S1 (19:22):
Flying is particularly interesting, I think, for any dog for
their first time or first flight. I know how much
preparation that you do to kind of make sure that
either is comfortable. And maybe it's all quite second nature because,
you know, she is such a seasoned traveler as you are.
The idea of bringing pet dogs on planes is is
a very interesting one. I, I'm not sure how much
I look forward to that particular change.
S2 (19:44):
No I. Yeah I. It will be a yeah. A
very interesting uh development in in Australia certainly in America
there's lots of little dogs that hop on planes, but
in Australia these dogs will be in a cage. And, uh,
my understanding is they'll need to be under the seat
in front. So it'll be only very small dogs that
(20:05):
will be coming on board. Yeah. They'll be they'll be
quite restricted in their in their movement, you know. But
I think that the good thing is that the airline
is completely understanding and through the work that we've been
doing and the work that they've been doing themselves, is
that the policies that they put in place want to
ensure that, you know, people that are travelling, you know,
(20:26):
with dog guides won't be negatively impacted.
S1 (20:29):
That's great. I think that's quite reassuring to hear.
S2 (20:33):
The good thing is you're not going to have a
little dog right next to you in the next seat
next to you that, you know, might be distracting for
the whole flight.
S1 (20:41):
So one of the other things under your portfolio is NDIS. Um,
what's been going on in the NDIS space? Kind of
related to dog guides this year.
S2 (20:52):
Look, you know, I think that NDIS is with the
new Act getting the NDIS back on track. Bill has
made some significant clarifications and changes for people. And so
as part of the reforms that is looking at much
broader reforms to the NDIS, which will impact your eligibility
(21:15):
for certain cohorts. It will impact the processes of assessment
and planning. Eventually it will introduce a thing called foundational supports,
where to ensure that, you know, those people that, uh,
may not be quite eligible for NDIS. There is a
system delivered by the state that will support those people,
(21:39):
so they're not left in isolation. All of those changes
will continue to happen. One of the things that has
definitely impacted people is that they've released in section ten
of the act, particular items that will and won't be
funded or supports that will and won't be funded. And
so they've split those into three categories effectively is that
(22:03):
define supports that will be funded defined supports that won't
be funded. And then they've designed this supports called replacement supports.
It's where there'll be some supports. And it's particularly around
equipment that if someone and it tends to be around
mainstream equipment that if there is some general use of
(22:24):
it for someone's disability, they can apply under a replacement
process to say, I want to replace some of my
supports within the plan and purchase this other support being
a bit of technology. An example might be is that
if someone has an accessible home appliance, let's say a
(22:45):
more accessible washing machine, and they they say that, you know, this,
this means that I can independently wash my clothes because
of the accessibility features, etc. what NDIS may do is
to say, okay, yes, we may fund that, however we'll
fund it, but there'll be some supports that you may
(23:05):
need to give up. And that means if you do
get support for home support at the moment with someone
to help support you wash those clothes, there'll be an
expectation that if you purchase that, you'll actually offset some
of those other supports that you're receiving and get and
use less of those. And so, yeah, there will be
some compromises, you know, within your plan where you want
(23:27):
to use the replacement process to do that for handlers,
one of the really key aspects of it is that
NDIS no longer fund pet insurance. So part of a
maintenance cost traditionally is that it's funded. Pet insurance, you know,
now NDIS have made it clear that they won't fund
(23:49):
pet insurance. However, they do fund veterinary costs. And so
if you go to the vet for a check up
or for some treatment, you can claim that within your
plan where those those extraordinary cases and we all know
about those ones where dog's done a cruciate ligament or
a swallowed something, or some things happen where the dog
(24:12):
requires additional veterinary costs. So we all know of those
ones that go to $10,000 or $15,000.
S1 (24:20):
Finally, pocket emergencies.
S2 (24:22):
Yeah, you can apply to the NDIS to get those
additional vet costs funded.
S1 (24:30):
Is that quite guaranteed that they would then pay for that?
S2 (24:34):
Look, if it's an NDIS funded dog guide. Ride. So
this is clearly, if they're not an NDIS funded service animal,
they're not eligible at all for veterinary costs. But where
it is an NDIS funded thing, it's to be tested.
We've certainly lobbied to try and change it. We think
that pet insurance is an important part, and we're still
doing some work with the minister's office and with the
(24:57):
Ndia around this. However, it appears that NDIS are effectively self-insuring.
Instead of paying another insurer to do this, we're wanting
to do some more work with the agency on how
that process will work, because obviously it's a very stressful
situation when your dog is unwell and it happens often
very quickly to be able to, um, to ensure that,
(25:20):
you know, that that decision can be made quickly.
S1 (25:23):
The last thing that you need is kind of the
extra financial pressure on it. You just want the dog
to be well and that's like your priority. So hopefully,
hopefully the NDIS can work that one out so that
you guys get kind of the.
S2 (25:35):
Yeah. So I think that look, you know, they are
committing to the veterinary costs. You know people can apply
for those. And so we're yeah it's reasonable and unavoidable. Yeah.
I don't see why they wouldn't be funded. They're not
in funding pet insurance. But unfortunately it's one of those
things that until we start putting it into practice and
understanding the experiences of people, and certainly where people have
(25:59):
had some experiences that haven't worked out so well, please
contact us at Advocacy at Vision Australia. Org. Because we
would love to work that through, you know, with the
Minister and the agency to to ensure that you know
that the experience does work for people.
S1 (26:18):
Are there any other kind of changes, I guess, that
have been relevant that you'd like to share about from 2024?
S3 (26:25):
Look, you.
S2 (26:25):
Know, I think that, you know, when in doubt, you know,
go to the NDIS website and look at those lists
of what is funded and what is. They've been very
simple language. You know, Yeah. There is a number of,
you know, therapies. You know, some of them, you know,
that are probably unlikely that people are accessing. But you know,
everything from, you know, cuddle therapy, wilderness therapy, you know, Reiki, uh,
(26:49):
goat therapy, all of some of these non-evidence based therapies
are no longer funded. And so, yeah, if you're looking
at a therapy that's probably not traditional and which is
not occupational therapy or, or orthoptics or random or guide
dog mobility instruction, and you're in doubt, you're best to
(27:09):
go to one of those lists and see whether it
is an eligible funding. And so yeah, there's been changes
to music therapy recently. And so, um, yeah, the best
thing to do is check and then you won't have
a shock when the NDIS contact you and say, that's
not an eligible funded service.
S1 (27:28):
Is there anything else? Um, just to finish off that,
you would like to share about your kind of work
and your department's work in 2024.
S2 (27:36):
Look, I think that the great thing about our work,
it's never done. There's always systemic change that we need
to make to try and improve inclusion and access for
people blind, low vision in all sort of various aspects
of life. We're really excited about, you know, the changes
within our team that is combining some of that, that
(27:59):
policy and advocacy and work with communications. And so I
think it'll be a pretty exciting year. You'll see some
bigger campaigns to try and help with, you know, changing
community attitude, changing the attitude, you know, with with various
aspects of community life.
S1 (28:20):
Well very exciting. Lots to come. And it sounds like
you like to be busy. So there you are.
S2 (28:25):
Yeah. It's, uh, it makes the year go very quickly.
Like this year. It's hard to believe that we're just
just about there.
S1 (28:33):
Well, thank you so much for joining me on the
show and for all of the work that you're doing. Um, yeah,
in all of those exciting spaces.
S2 (28:40):
Absolute pleasure, Harriet, and look forward to, uh, touching base
next year when we have some of these things that
we've been working on come to fruition.
S1 (28:53):
I hope you enjoyed my interview with Chris Edwards, general
manager of corporate affairs and advocacy at Vision Australia. You
can head to the website at Vision Australia. About us. Advocacy.
For more information on advocacy at Vision Australia or head
to the Seeing Eye Dogs website at Vision Australia. For
(29:17):
more information on Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do
before becoming a handler or how you can help, don't
forget to tune in. Same time next week for another
episode of The Seeing Eye Dog Show.
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