March 12, 2025 • 28 mins
On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, Harriet is joined by Seeing Eye Dogs handler Dale Pierce talking about his life, his story and his partnership with Yana.
Dale is a busy and active handler and trail runner and he’s set to take on an exciting 100K Your Way challenge. Dale shares his journey with vision loss, discovering a love for trail running, and his motivation for participating in Vision Australia's 100K Your Way fundraising. This is just one part of our interview, so once you’ve enjoyed this, make sure you tune in again next week for part two.
To support Dale’s 100K Your Way fundraising efforts, head to Dale's 100K Your Way page.
If you’d like to learn about Seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, becoming a handler, or supporting us head to our website at sed.visionaustralia.org.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:10):
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. On this episode,
I'm joined by Seeing Eye Dogs handler Dale Pearce talking
about his life, his story, and his partnership with Yhana.
Dale is a busy and active handler and a trail running,
and he's set to take on an exciting 100 K
(00:31):
Your Way challenge, which I'm excited to share with you all.
He's going to share with us his journey of his
vision loss, discovering a love for trail running, and his
motivation for taking part in Vision Australia's 100 K Your
Way fundraising. This is just one part of our interview,
so once you've enjoyed this, make sure you head to
(00:52):
tune in again next week for part two, whether that's
on radio or podcast. And don't forget to go and
support Dale and Jana's fundraising efforts too by searching up
fundraising Vision org or looking up del Viana 100 K
your way. Chuck it into Google and see what comes out.
(01:12):
For now, keep listening and please enjoy part one of
my chat with Dale. Hi Dale, thank you for joining
me on the show today.
S2 (01:26):
Thank you very much for having me.
S1 (01:29):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:31):
Yeah. So my name is Dale. Um, I live in Ballarat,
in Victoria. Uh, I've been vision impaired for about two
years now, sort of late in life. Vision impairment. Um,
so have been learning to adapt with that process, um,
of living life as a vision impaired person. Um, and also, um,
(01:53):
for the last seven months, I've now been a dog handler.
So that's very exciting as well.
S1 (01:58):
So before we started recording, um, you mentioned that I
think there's not just been the vision changes, but you've
actually changed quite a lot in your life. Otherwise, what
is the new kind of some of the newfound passions
and hobbies that you've found since losing your sight?
S2 (02:15):
Yeah. Um, so one of the big things the doctors
said to me. So I had what they call a
central retinal vein occlusion as my condition. Um, so basically
a stroke in my eyes. Um, and the doctors recommended
some cardio work for me in particular, um, to help
them fight the degenerating, um, condition that it is. So
(02:37):
while I've got a little bit of sight, do what
I can to help prevent it. Um, so basically, I
went out and bought a treadmill and from someone who
didn't really exercise a lot. Um, I'm now exercising every day, uh,
from initially walking on a treadmill to now running out
in public with a running guide, um, and doing events
like half marathons and marathons and trail running and things
(03:00):
like that. So life's changed drastically when it comes to, um,
how I've just get around in the world, I think
is the easiest way to say it.
S1 (03:11):
How you get around in in the world, whether that's
smooth road trails and whether that's at a walk or
a run or a jog or.
S2 (03:19):
Yeah, definitely. So and obviously, um, when I'm not out
there doing silly things like running and all those things,
I've got, um, my seeing eye dog with me, um,
and she's just over the last seven months, we've learned to,
to adapt and understand her and learn to, to to
work with her. And she works with me and. Yeah,
(03:39):
it's been amazing.
S1 (03:41):
What made you decide to get the Seeing Eye dog?
S2 (03:45):
I chatted to a lot of people about it, um, beforehand.
And the fact that I'm. My sight's degenerating. Um, we
don't know if it's a day, a week, a year,
five years, ten years. It may last forever. What I've
got left. Um, it was a matter of. I need
(04:06):
to be independent. And part of that independence is how
do I get around? Um, looks like I do go
out on my own a lot. And with a cane.
It's all good at the moment if I needed to.
But in time and over the last six months, my
sight's dropped a few times already. So, um, having a
(04:27):
dog gives me that confidence to be able to get
out there and actually travel like I want to travel. Um,
whether it's just to the shops or to Melbourne or
whatever I need to do. Um, because I know that
I've got some someone there guiding me and keeping me
a bit safer. So yeah. So that was sort of
the catalyst was that independence.
S1 (04:50):
And I and I guess kind of Yana, you know,
you have to then kind of sit back and trust.
And even if you've got your site, do you then
have to kind of work on that, not using it
to some degree and helping her work. Yeah, that's the
kind of challenge.
S2 (05:05):
Yeah, it sort of is and sort of isn't. Um, weirdly,
because I run without a tether most days. Um, with
my running guide, I have to fully. And even with tether,
I have to fully trust what he says and where
he puts me on the road. Um, so if he
moves a foot to the left or a foot to
(05:26):
the right, I follow him. So I run directly behind
him most days. So having yhana, it's I've found that
I just have to do what I do with my
running guide and just let her take me. So it's
actually in, I don't know. For me, I feel like
my exercise has actually helped me adapt to learning how
(05:48):
to shut off a bit from trying to control things
and let Yhana just do her job. So, um, so yeah,
it's sort of weirdly works that both have intermingled.
S1 (05:59):
And I guess using the dog for one thing, and
then the running guide for others. It's both. You're kind
of doing quite fluid movements, and you can't use a
cane for for the trail running as much easily, could you?
S2 (06:11):
Yeah, I use an all terrain cane for some of
the heavier stuff, um, to help me feel my way
a little bit, um, combined with hiking poles. But, um,
in general, it's. I don't use if it's a flat track,
I just won't use anything. I'll just run behind my
guide or next to him with a tether. Um, um, and,
you know, oddly enough, Jana's more obedient than my guide sometimes. Um,
(06:33):
so he gets he doesn't talk back, and he. And
he gets away on me occasionally. So I've got to
drag him back and tell him to slow down. Um, so, um,
sort of a standing joke between us.
S1 (06:45):
So, I mean, the fact that you've gone from. So
the treadmill to kind of increasing what led you to
trail running and the long distance of it all, was
it just like you were like, oh, well, I'm doing
it now, so I might as well keep going.
S2 (07:00):
Became a freedom thing. Um, I've always pushed boundaries, I guess,
and part of it was the sensory aspect, because road running,
you just sit there and just plug away, do your
thing and you're on a road, there's buildings, there's, you know,
those type of sounds, but there's not really much environmental
(07:20):
stimulation there in terms of like natural stuff. Whereas as
soon as you get out into a trail, whether it's
just an easy trail, you know, around a park and
stuff like that, that's quite easy. Um, or something a
bit more difficult. There's the hearing, there's the smells, there's
the feel on the ground, um, of different terrains. If
(07:40):
you've got to lean against something or move around a tree,
you're feeling what that's like. And so I guess for me,
while I can do those things, that's really cool because
it gives me that sensory awareness of what's happening around
me and keeps me connected, I guess is the easiest
way to say it. And eventually if the site. Drops,
I won't be able to go out and do some
(08:02):
of the more more technical things. But. Um, while I
can do that, then that's where I'm going to head to.
So yeah.
S1 (08:10):
It's hard to describe when you're actually out in nature
and feeling shade in your shoulders from from trees around
you and hearing the birds and the scents and all
that stuff. Yeah, it's cool to be able to kind
of get some, make the most of of that and
really going out there and, and getting it. So in
terms of, I guess, the kind of structure of these things,
do you have any particular goals, kind of or challenges
(08:33):
coming up, um, in mind for these, um, intrepid adventures?
S2 (08:38):
Um, so I did an event last year in, in
November that was called the GPT 100, which is a
trail running event in the Grampians. And, um, I didn't
succeed fully. I, I timed out due to being a
little bit slow, um, due to the site. So we've
already made a plan to go back there this year. Um,
and the organizers are 100% on board. They're looking at
(09:01):
how to do adaptive categories for us. The whole kit.
So and they know my training plan. They we talk
every week. So the aim is to go back there
in November and give it a red hot crack and
actually complete this year.
S1 (09:15):
So would the category change just be allowing you a
little bit more time? Because I guess that's sort of
guiding takes a little bit longer. It's a lot less fluid. Yeah.
S2 (09:24):
Yeah. So they're looking at starting me an hour or
two earlier so that I can make the aid stations
that are allocated on time and not get caught up
by the, what they call the course sweeps or the
last person in. So, um, they're giving they're going to
give me every opportunity I can to actually get through,
which is really amazing.
S1 (09:45):
And how long, if you completed it, would it take running?
S2 (09:49):
We're talking for me around 15 hours. So, um, and
that's a, that's a 50 kilometre event.
S1 (09:57):
Yeah.
S2 (09:58):
So, um, the, the elites that did it last year
did it in under six for the men and under
six and a half for the women. So they're very
fast at what they do.
S1 (10:09):
Yeah. I mean, and I guess for anyone who's not
kind of aware, you know, um, the difference between the
trail running and kind of road running, it's not like
there's a bit of kind of gravel and there's a
bit of, you know, but it's actually.
S2 (10:21):
Quite.
S1 (10:21):
Tough terrain, isn't it?
S2 (10:23):
Yeah. So, um, trail running, especially the technical stuff, like
I'm pushing myself to, um, it's lots of rocks and
roots on the, on the trails, um, very narrow at points. Um,
there's rock scrambling. So you basically hands and knees climbing
over rocks and boulders. Um, at certain sections, um, steep downhills,
(10:45):
very steep uphills. Um, yeah. You name it, there's potential
river crossings, like or like stream crossings. Um, in some events?
I don't think so. In the event I'm doing if
if it November, they shouldn't be. Um, so yeah, there's,
there's lots of variables. Um, they call it single track
racing because most of the time there's no extra width
(11:08):
more than one person.
S1 (11:10):
Wow.
S2 (11:11):
So, so, um, so, yeah, it's it's a full trust
thing with my guide that I do what he tells me,
and he knows that I have to listen and do what?
What's going on. So we're very, very much a team
in what we do. Um, so yeah, it's not your
average jog around the park by any stretch.
S1 (11:29):
And I guess for those other kind of slightly more, um, walking, walking, uh,
bits around the park, that's where Yhana will then come in.
S2 (11:39):
Yeah, definitely. So when I'm building her up in her distance, um,
I do my local park run every Saturday morning, um,
which is A5K event, and she can do a five K's. Um,
some days she's a little bit more distracted than others. Um,
she's still a pup. She's still only two. Um, just
turned two, so she gets a little distracted some days, but, um,
I take her out probably once every month, at least. Um,
(12:03):
and do the event with her. Um, and we just
walk it. She doesn't run. Because obviously, once you start
trying to run a dog, the guiding drops away a lot. So, um,
we're not at that stage by any stretch, so I
still have my running guide with me. He just walks
next to us. Um, not that he has to, but
we just have a chat. Um, while Jana takes me around. Um, he.
S1 (12:26):
Happens to be your mate too, so.
S2 (12:29):
Yeah, exactly. So we're good mates? Um, because we spend
a lot of time on the trails together, so we
have a chat and do our thing. Um, Jana guides
me around. Um, she'll say hello to the other dogs
that are on course as well. Um, so it's good
for her to learn to interact with other pups out
and about. Um, and she gets to see a lot
(12:49):
of other people. Um, so. Yeah. So it's as I
build her up on distance, um, the better she is
at those things. Uh, and the one thing that I
will be doing with her, probably not this year, but next. Um,
I'll take her to it this year. There's a event
in October called The Barking Mad. Um, it's an ultra
(13:09):
trail run, so it's actually a trail run like I've
been doing. But you can actually take your dog on board,
and that's over in Warragul, um, in Victoria. Um, and, um,
I'm chatting to the organisers, and they'll actually bring Jana
out on course for me with a couple of days
to go so she can take me in, um, which
will be amazing. And, um, then the next year, we'll
(13:30):
plan on doing a, you know, maybe a bit more
of a distance with her as well, depending on how
she's travelling.
S1 (13:36):
I mean, it's quite a lot in an early partnership,
I guess, to be to be looking at doing the
whole way yet.
S2 (13:41):
So, yeah, no, it's way too much. And I'm, I'm
inexperienced as a first time handler. Jane is still young, so, um,
but if I can take her in for the last
couple of days when it's easy, then great, and then
eventually we might work up to a 5 or 10
K together, um, on a trail sort of thing. But
I'll always have my guide with me just in case.
S1 (14:02):
Why do you think you two might have been matched
and or you know what, I guess. What do you
like about her?
S2 (14:07):
Um. She's got massive personality to start with. I'm up
and about. I'm obviously very active. So they picked a dog.
That's for me. That's obviously that active as well. Got
a good step about her. Um, and a good turn
of pace. So when I walk briskly just over to
the shop, she's on it. She's with me the whole time,
(14:29):
that's all, you know? And she's like, oh, this is
amazing type thing. You can you can feel the bounce
in her as she's like, gets excited about it. So, um,
which is awesome. So, uh, personality wise, we've clicked she's
just connected with me, and I, I can Be biased
(14:49):
as all I like, because I'm sure every handler is.
I think she's just amazing. And as I say, she's
the personality, that it's the head on the lap that,
you know, if I'm not having a great day or
whatever it may be, she she understands. Well, I think
she does, um, that she goes, oh, okay, today's going
to be an off day. This is what we do.
Or if I'm walking slow for a day, for whatever reason,
(15:11):
she'll just back off totally. And she just knows. So
she's very intuitive to me already. So, um, so yeah,
it's a very good match. So the guys did amazing.
S1 (15:24):
What's the kind of things that you guys do together? Yeah,
you've got a lot of very active things that maybe
she can't go to. But what are the things that
you guys do together.
S2 (15:30):
So we pretty much go to the shops every other day.
It's a couple of K's walk there and back, um,
for our major shopping centre. Um, so I make effort
to go there every couple of days. I'm into Ballarat
CBD at least a couple of times a week with
her seeing mum. So that's buses. And to get in
and out of town I go see my mum, which
(15:52):
is a few days away. Same deal on the buses
and things. Um, and I regularly head to Melbourne for, um, appointments,
for eye appointments and things like that as well. So
she's on the train with me. Doing her thing gets
me from the station over to my hospital. I usually
just walk because it's it's a city based hospital, the
(16:12):
eye and ear. So, um, she just tracks me along
and she knows the way. And, um, importantly, um, when
I really can't see anything when I leave hospital, most times, um,
due to an injection or whatever it may be. Um,
she knows where to go. Get me back. I used
to have to wait two and three hours for the
eye to settle down, so I could have enough sight
(16:34):
to confidently walk back to the station myself. And now
I just go. Let's go. I grab a coffee and
we're off. So the fact that I've got confidence in
her that she knows where the hospital is, where the
station is, where to navigate me through the station. She's amazing. So, um,
(16:56):
just those things of navigating around, um, Ballarat CBD as well.
She knows where to go, where the toilets are in
certain shopping centres for me, all those things. So if
I'm having one of those days that I just go, wow,
I can't remember or I can't figure out what's going on,
she can usually sort it out for me sometimes.
S1 (17:16):
Imagine it's kind of nice to, um, have a bit
of less mental load and have someone help help you
a bit.
S2 (17:21):
Yeah. It is. Um, and that's the thing I think
like especially in just around Melbourne CBD in particular, a
lot of the streets are bit bumpy and you know,
and also Ballarat, to be honest, there's a lot of, um,
blue stones and cobblestones and things like that floating around
in gutters. And she can navigate me around those really
easily versus before I'd be, you know, taking extra five
(17:44):
minutes to figure out what to do or where to go.
She just. If I come to a block, I just go,
you know, find a way. And two minutes later, we've
walked around whatever obstacle it was and off we go.
So she doesn't even hesitate. Um. Construction sites. There's a
lot of construction near where I live. Often there's gates
(18:04):
and things across footpaths, and she just. She'll stop. She'll wait.
And next thing you know, I tell her what to do,
and she's navigating me around whatever that obstacle may be.
So previously, I'd be like, oh, how do I get
around this? And not stressing a lot, but I'd just
be frustrated and trying to go, okay, what do I do?
(18:25):
What do I do? Now she just yep, off she goes.
So I can sort of outsource. That is a nice
way to say it a little bit. Um, as much
as I'm still in charge, um, very much. She can
figure out what to do for me and get me
around certain things. Pretty safe. So, yeah.
S3 (18:44):
One of the things.
S1 (18:45):
That is coming up that some of our senior supporters
might have noticed would be that you guys are doing
the 100 K your way. Can you tell us a
little bit about that?
S2 (18:54):
Yeah, definitely. So I've always been a bit of a
give back person, um, and try and help support, whether
it's the industry I used to be in, which was
hospitality or now that I'm visually impaired obviously Vision Australia
and seeing eye dogs. So I'm a member of the
client reference group for Vision Australia as well. So I've
(19:15):
sort of dove into that quite quickly so I could
learn to engage with people with vision impairment as well.
But the 100 K your way is sort of the
perfect thing. That ties in with my exercise. I do
a lot of kilometres every week, so and most of
it's on the treadmill. And I went, you know what?
Why don't we just throw it out there and let's
(19:35):
just let's, let's let it rip. Which is just my
motto for life at the moment anyway. And, um, I've
decided to do 100km, all in one day on a treadmill.
So I've got my team around me, my my running
guides joining me to help me control the buttons on
the treadmill because it'll be a it'll be a foreign treadmill,
being the gym ones who've had my home one. He's
(19:58):
going to do the 100 K's as well. So we're
going to start at midnight on the 1st of April.
So the first day of the official event for the
month at Planet Fitness in Delacombe, which is in Ballarat. And, um, yeah,
we're going to smash out our 100 K's, hopefully by
close of business. It'd be nice. So 5 p.m. is
our aim, but if it takes a bit longer then
(20:18):
it takes a bit longer.
S1 (20:19):
That's like walking into pretty much a jog pace, isn't it?
S2 (20:23):
Yeah, it's about five and a half. Six an hour.
So a good steady walk for the whole time. But
that's not including breaks. Um, so we'll go a little
bit faster. So probably seven. So a slow jog. So
seven k's an hour or so. And that way we
can log in a few breaks here and there. I
(20:43):
might have a nap for 15 20 minutes at some
point to rest. Um, they've got massage tables there at
the gym. All those things they've got basically creating an
open day for us, which is amazing. So anyone that's
a non-member is a member. Doesn't matter. You can turn
up and support me and run on any of the machines.
(21:04):
Do rowing, do cycling, do the treadmills, ellipticals, whatever they've
got there. Um, and there's no cost to you at
all to get into the gym for the day, so
there's no day pass required or anything. So they've been
amazing to do that for us. And, um, the idea
is that run a few K's, donate a few dollars, um,
and what every kilometre counts and every dollar counts to
(21:27):
help raise money for Vision Australia. So, um, that's going
to be a really cool event for us. Um, and
raise a bit of awareness that blind and low vision,
people can get out and do things, um, and exercise
and push boundaries and challenges like this. Um, and the
the wonderful bit. Guyana will be there for the last
probably that afternoon. She won't be the whole thing. 17
(21:50):
hours is a bit long for her to be sitting
around waiting for me. Yeah. Um, so she. She'll probably
get a little irritated if I do that. Um, so
someone will bring her down? Probably about with 2 or
3 hours to go so that she's there when we finish. Um,
because every event I do that possible that, um, she's
(22:10):
there at the finish line for me to to to
be with me and give me some love. So. Yeah.
So she's going to be there for this one as well.
S1 (22:19):
As those she's been supporting the whole time. However, she's
been slacking.
S2 (22:22):
Yeah yeah. Yeah totally. So at the end of the
day it's quite funny. She when I jump on my
treadmill at home, her standard position is sleeping next to
the treadmill.
S3 (22:31):
Yeah.
S2 (22:32):
So she she'll she'll she'll come in and she doesn't
want to be away from me, so she'll just fall
asleep next to the treadmill because she knows that's what
we do. So. And in a couple of hours she
gets up when I'm ready to go.
S3 (22:44):
Yeah.
S2 (22:44):
So. Yeah.
S1 (22:47):
Well, it's nice that she's supporting you in her own way,
which is doing.
S2 (22:51):
Nothing that she can look cute and adorable. And while
she's at the gym in particular, I'm sure there's going
to be a lot of people pay attention to her.
So that's a win. Which means the more people that
get around us, even if it's for a bit of
a how are you going, Yana? And maybe a pack
if I take her harness off? Um, she will love
(23:12):
that if I do. Um, at the end of the day,
if it helps raise money for Vision Australia, then that's
what it's going to happen.
S1 (23:17):
So sometimes you got to use the dog drawcard to
your own advantage.
S3 (23:21):
I think.
S2 (23:22):
100%. Um, and I'm also doing the trek for vision
in at the end of April, which is a trek
to New Zealand. Um, and I was actually at a
fundraiser for, um, the Vision Australia representative, Sharon, um, in December,
and I actually used Yana quite openly is a fundraising
tool and was giving cats for donations. We raised a
(23:44):
couple hundred bucks just from Yana.
S3 (23:46):
Wow.
S2 (23:47):
So and she was loving the cats. So it was
also an education because I had to take her harness
off to do that. So I educated people as to why.
So it was a really good tool for the for
that night, not just to raise money, but a bit
of education in the process.
S3 (24:01):
Well, it's.
S1 (24:02):
A win win because she enjoys it. People are learning
and then you get that thing too. But I think
one of the things that a lot of people probably
who listen to the show would, would know, but some
members of the general public, they do not think that
the dogs get very much affection or of off duty
time or, you know, I mean, as a puppy carer,
I get the comments of, well, they don't really get
much fun, do they? I'm like.
S3 (24:23):
Oh, it's all fun. I would say that, yeah.
S2 (24:27):
So I guess the easiest way I think is Yana
probably only works for 2 to 3 hours a day
in most days these days if I go to Melbourne,
she's on for the whole day sort of thing, so
we know that. But a general day, like I've been
to the shops this morning, it was an hour and
a half return trip. I've got to go out again
this afternoon, and tonight she'll work probably about 5 or
6 hours tonight. So probably an eight hour day today. Um,
(24:50):
tomorrow may only be a couple of hours. Um, the
rest of the time she's got two toys. She plays
in the backyard. She, um, loves our cat. Um, a
little too much for our cat to say, but she
is quite adorable. She'll lay in the sun, she'll have
a nap. She does what she does as a dog. Um,
and she is very much a dog. At the end
of the day, she's a lab that bounds around the
(25:11):
house and loves life and wags her tail at everything
she can and all those things. So for those that
think it is all work, it's far from it. So
it's it's a very wonderful thing to see the difference
in how she acts as well. And everyone comments that
knows her. In both lights they see a working girl,
(25:32):
you know, she's so good and all this. And then
they see her at home and go, she's just a dog.
And it's like, well, yeah, you know, she that's what
she is. She's a dog.
S3 (25:41):
She is still and.
S1 (25:42):
She's still kind of a young dog. You know, she's
still very much a baby when you think about some
pet dogs, pet Labradors, they're, um, pretty chaotic until eight,
eight years old, you know?
S2 (25:53):
Yeah. Don't tell me that.
S1 (25:55):
You know, our dogs are different. They. Well, you know,
I mean, the fact that she can, you know, do
the work that she does is is a pretty good
testament to the fact that she's not like, a pet lab.
S2 (26:04):
Yeah. So but yeah, she, she loves having a chew toy.
And her squeakers are floating around the house constantly and
you know it. And she loves playing, you know, bit
of a throw in the backyard and all those things
so very much. She gets all the love and attention
she needs. She gets all the pats and cuddles and
all those things outside of work. But she knows when
(26:26):
that harness goes on, she's and she, she, she knows
it and she loves it too. So you can see
especially when it's busy like I noticed it in in
very busy situations. She's really on it and she's just amazing. Like,
you can see the bounce in her and she's the
head's on a swivel and she, she's very switched on
(26:49):
to it.
S1 (26:55):
You've been listening to the Seeing Auto show on Vision
Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed part one of my
interview with Dale Pearce, trail Runner and Seeing Eye Dogs
handler two Yhana. The rest of this interview will air
next week, so if you're listening on radio. Don't forget
to tune in Same time next week. Or if you're
listening on podcast, subscribe to the podcast for new episodes
(27:17):
direct to your preferred podcast platform. To go and support
Dale's 100 K Your Way fundraising efforts, head to Fundraising
Vision australia.org and search Dale to find his page. For
more information on Seeing Eye dogs the work we do.
How you can help and how you can support us.
(27:38):
Head to City Vision australia.org. If you're interested in finding
out about dog guide mobility and whether that is right
for you, head to that same website. We would love
to have a chat with you. Our friendly team are
happy to chat about assessment, eligibility and more about what
what it means to become a seeing eye dog handler.
(27:59):
We have some altered dates for our New South Wales
Act roadshow. Due to cyclones and the safety of our
staff and attending guests. Keep an ear out on our
website for updates on the New South Wales Act Roadshow,
but if you have any questions, our friendly team would
love to chat with you about Dog Guide Mobility. You
(28:19):
can send us an email at Sydney clients at Vision Australia.
Org or you can head to that website again. Thank
you for listening and have a lovely rest of your week.
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. On this episode,
I'm joined by Seeing Eye Dogs handler Dale Pearce talking
about his life, his story, and his partnership with Yhana.
Dale is a busy and active handler and a trail running,
and he's set to take on an exciting 100 K
(00:31):
Your Way challenge, which I'm excited to share with you all.
He's going to share with us his journey of his
vision loss, discovering a love for trail running, and his
motivation for taking part in Vision Australia's 100 K Your
Way fundraising. This is just one part of our interview,
so once you've enjoyed this, make sure you head to
(00:52):
tune in again next week for part two, whether that's
on radio or podcast. And don't forget to go and
support Dale and Jana's fundraising efforts too by searching up
fundraising Vision org or looking up del Viana 100 K
your way. Chuck it into Google and see what comes out.
(01:12):
For now, keep listening and please enjoy part one of
my chat with Dale. Hi Dale, thank you for joining
me on the show today.
S2 (01:26):
Thank you very much for having me.
S1 (01:29):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:31):
Yeah. So my name is Dale. Um, I live in Ballarat,
in Victoria. Uh, I've been vision impaired for about two
years now, sort of late in life. Vision impairment. Um,
so have been learning to adapt with that process, um,
of living life as a vision impaired person. Um, and also, um,
(01:53):
for the last seven months, I've now been a dog handler.
So that's very exciting as well.
S1 (01:58):
So before we started recording, um, you mentioned that I
think there's not just been the vision changes, but you've
actually changed quite a lot in your life. Otherwise, what
is the new kind of some of the newfound passions
and hobbies that you've found since losing your sight?
S2 (02:15):
Yeah. Um, so one of the big things the doctors
said to me. So I had what they call a
central retinal vein occlusion as my condition. Um, so basically
a stroke in my eyes. Um, and the doctors recommended
some cardio work for me in particular, um, to help
them fight the degenerating, um, condition that it is. So
(02:37):
while I've got a little bit of sight, do what
I can to help prevent it. Um, so basically, I
went out and bought a treadmill and from someone who
didn't really exercise a lot. Um, I'm now exercising every day, uh,
from initially walking on a treadmill to now running out
in public with a running guide, um, and doing events
like half marathons and marathons and trail running and things
(03:00):
like that. So life's changed drastically when it comes to, um,
how I've just get around in the world, I think
is the easiest way to say it.
S1 (03:11):
How you get around in in the world, whether that's
smooth road trails and whether that's at a walk or
a run or a jog or.
S2 (03:19):
Yeah, definitely. So and obviously, um, when I'm not out
there doing silly things like running and all those things,
I've got, um, my seeing eye dog with me, um,
and she's just over the last seven months, we've learned to,
to adapt and understand her and learn to, to to
work with her. And she works with me and. Yeah,
(03:39):
it's been amazing.
S1 (03:41):
What made you decide to get the Seeing Eye dog?
S2 (03:45):
I chatted to a lot of people about it, um, beforehand.
And the fact that I'm. My sight's degenerating. Um, we
don't know if it's a day, a week, a year,
five years, ten years. It may last forever. What I've
got left. Um, it was a matter of. I need
(04:06):
to be independent. And part of that independence is how
do I get around? Um, looks like I do go
out on my own a lot. And with a cane.
It's all good at the moment if I needed to.
But in time and over the last six months, my
sight's dropped a few times already. So, um, having a
(04:27):
dog gives me that confidence to be able to get
out there and actually travel like I want to travel. Um,
whether it's just to the shops or to Melbourne or
whatever I need to do. Um, because I know that
I've got some someone there guiding me and keeping me
a bit safer. So yeah. So that was sort of
the catalyst was that independence.
S1 (04:50):
And I and I guess kind of Yana, you know,
you have to then kind of sit back and trust.
And even if you've got your site, do you then
have to kind of work on that, not using it
to some degree and helping her work. Yeah, that's the
kind of challenge.
S2 (05:05):
Yeah, it sort of is and sort of isn't. Um, weirdly,
because I run without a tether most days. Um, with
my running guide, I have to fully. And even with tether,
I have to fully trust what he says and where
he puts me on the road. Um, so if he
moves a foot to the left or a foot to
(05:26):
the right, I follow him. So I run directly behind
him most days. So having yhana, it's I've found that
I just have to do what I do with my
running guide and just let her take me. So it's
actually in, I don't know. For me, I feel like
my exercise has actually helped me adapt to learning how
(05:48):
to shut off a bit from trying to control things
and let Yhana just do her job. So, um, so yeah,
it's sort of weirdly works that both have intermingled.
S1 (05:59):
And I guess using the dog for one thing, and
then the running guide for others. It's both. You're kind
of doing quite fluid movements, and you can't use a
cane for for the trail running as much easily, could you?
S2 (06:11):
Yeah, I use an all terrain cane for some of
the heavier stuff, um, to help me feel my way
a little bit, um, combined with hiking poles. But, um,
in general, it's. I don't use if it's a flat track,
I just won't use anything. I'll just run behind my
guide or next to him with a tether. Um, um, and,
you know, oddly enough, Jana's more obedient than my guide sometimes. Um,
(06:33):
so he gets he doesn't talk back, and he. And
he gets away on me occasionally. So I've got to
drag him back and tell him to slow down. Um, so, um,
sort of a standing joke between us.
S1 (06:45):
So, I mean, the fact that you've gone from. So
the treadmill to kind of increasing what led you to
trail running and the long distance of it all, was
it just like you were like, oh, well, I'm doing
it now, so I might as well keep going.
S2 (07:00):
Became a freedom thing. Um, I've always pushed boundaries, I guess,
and part of it was the sensory aspect, because road running,
you just sit there and just plug away, do your
thing and you're on a road, there's buildings, there's, you know,
those type of sounds, but there's not really much environmental
(07:20):
stimulation there in terms of like natural stuff. Whereas as
soon as you get out into a trail, whether it's
just an easy trail, you know, around a park and
stuff like that, that's quite easy. Um, or something a
bit more difficult. There's the hearing, there's the smells, there's
the feel on the ground, um, of different terrains. If
(07:40):
you've got to lean against something or move around a tree,
you're feeling what that's like. And so I guess for me,
while I can do those things, that's really cool because
it gives me that sensory awareness of what's happening around
me and keeps me connected, I guess is the easiest
way to say it. And eventually if the site. Drops,
I won't be able to go out and do some
(08:02):
of the more more technical things. But. Um, while I
can do that, then that's where I'm going to head to.
So yeah.
S1 (08:10):
It's hard to describe when you're actually out in nature
and feeling shade in your shoulders from from trees around
you and hearing the birds and the scents and all
that stuff. Yeah, it's cool to be able to kind
of get some, make the most of of that and
really going out there and, and getting it. So in
terms of, I guess, the kind of structure of these things,
do you have any particular goals, kind of or challenges
(08:33):
coming up, um, in mind for these, um, intrepid adventures?
S2 (08:38):
Um, so I did an event last year in, in
November that was called the GPT 100, which is a
trail running event in the Grampians. And, um, I didn't
succeed fully. I, I timed out due to being a
little bit slow, um, due to the site. So we've
already made a plan to go back there this year. Um,
and the organizers are 100% on board. They're looking at
(09:01):
how to do adaptive categories for us. The whole kit.
So and they know my training plan. They we talk
every week. So the aim is to go back there
in November and give it a red hot crack and
actually complete this year.
S1 (09:15):
So would the category change just be allowing you a
little bit more time? Because I guess that's sort of
guiding takes a little bit longer. It's a lot less fluid. Yeah.
S2 (09:24):
Yeah. So they're looking at starting me an hour or
two earlier so that I can make the aid stations
that are allocated on time and not get caught up
by the, what they call the course sweeps or the
last person in. So, um, they're giving they're going to
give me every opportunity I can to actually get through,
which is really amazing.
S1 (09:45):
And how long, if you completed it, would it take running?
S2 (09:49):
We're talking for me around 15 hours. So, um, and
that's a, that's a 50 kilometre event.
S1 (09:57):
Yeah.
S2 (09:58):
So, um, the, the elites that did it last year
did it in under six for the men and under
six and a half for the women. So they're very
fast at what they do.
S1 (10:09):
Yeah. I mean, and I guess for anyone who's not
kind of aware, you know, um, the difference between the
trail running and kind of road running, it's not like
there's a bit of kind of gravel and there's a
bit of, you know, but it's actually.
S2 (10:21):
Quite.
S1 (10:21):
Tough terrain, isn't it?
S2 (10:23):
Yeah. So, um, trail running, especially the technical stuff, like
I'm pushing myself to, um, it's lots of rocks and
roots on the, on the trails, um, very narrow at points. Um,
there's rock scrambling. So you basically hands and knees climbing
over rocks and boulders. Um, at certain sections, um, steep downhills,
(10:45):
very steep uphills. Um, yeah. You name it, there's potential
river crossings, like or like stream crossings. Um, in some events?
I don't think so. In the event I'm doing if
if it November, they shouldn't be. Um, so yeah, there's,
there's lots of variables. Um, they call it single track
racing because most of the time there's no extra width
(11:08):
more than one person.
S1 (11:10):
Wow.
S2 (11:11):
So, so, um, so, yeah, it's it's a full trust
thing with my guide that I do what he tells me,
and he knows that I have to listen and do what?
What's going on. So we're very, very much a team
in what we do. Um, so yeah, it's not your
average jog around the park by any stretch.
S1 (11:29):
And I guess for those other kind of slightly more, um, walking, walking, uh,
bits around the park, that's where Yhana will then come in.
S2 (11:39):
Yeah, definitely. So when I'm building her up in her distance, um,
I do my local park run every Saturday morning, um,
which is A5K event, and she can do a five K's. Um,
some days she's a little bit more distracted than others. Um,
she's still a pup. She's still only two. Um, just
turned two, so she gets a little distracted some days, but, um,
I take her out probably once every month, at least. Um,
(12:03):
and do the event with her. Um, and we just
walk it. She doesn't run. Because obviously, once you start
trying to run a dog, the guiding drops away a lot. So, um,
we're not at that stage by any stretch, so I
still have my running guide with me. He just walks
next to us. Um, not that he has to, but
we just have a chat. Um, while Jana takes me around. Um, he.
S1 (12:26):
Happens to be your mate too, so.
S2 (12:29):
Yeah, exactly. So we're good mates? Um, because we spend
a lot of time on the trails together, so we
have a chat and do our thing. Um, Jana guides
me around. Um, she'll say hello to the other dogs
that are on course as well. Um, so it's good
for her to learn to interact with other pups out
and about. Um, and she gets to see a lot
(12:49):
of other people. Um, so. Yeah. So it's as I
build her up on distance, um, the better she is
at those things. Uh, and the one thing that I
will be doing with her, probably not this year, but next. Um,
I'll take her to it this year. There's a event
in October called The Barking Mad. Um, it's an ultra
(13:09):
trail run, so it's actually a trail run like I've
been doing. But you can actually take your dog on board,
and that's over in Warragul, um, in Victoria. Um, and, um,
I'm chatting to the organisers, and they'll actually bring Jana
out on course for me with a couple of days
to go so she can take me in, um, which
will be amazing. And, um, then the next year, we'll
(13:30):
plan on doing a, you know, maybe a bit more
of a distance with her as well, depending on how
she's travelling.
S1 (13:36):
I mean, it's quite a lot in an early partnership,
I guess, to be to be looking at doing the
whole way yet.
S2 (13:41):
So, yeah, no, it's way too much. And I'm, I'm
inexperienced as a first time handler. Jane is still young, so, um,
but if I can take her in for the last
couple of days when it's easy, then great, and then
eventually we might work up to a 5 or 10
K together, um, on a trail sort of thing. But
I'll always have my guide with me just in case.
S1 (14:02):
Why do you think you two might have been matched
and or you know what, I guess. What do you
like about her?
S2 (14:07):
Um. She's got massive personality to start with. I'm up
and about. I'm obviously very active. So they picked a dog.
That's for me. That's obviously that active as well. Got
a good step about her. Um, and a good turn
of pace. So when I walk briskly just over to
the shop, she's on it. She's with me the whole time,
(14:29):
that's all, you know? And she's like, oh, this is
amazing type thing. You can you can feel the bounce
in her as she's like, gets excited about it. So, um,
which is awesome. So, uh, personality wise, we've clicked she's
just connected with me, and I, I can Be biased
(14:49):
as all I like, because I'm sure every handler is.
I think she's just amazing. And as I say, she's
the personality, that it's the head on the lap that,
you know, if I'm not having a great day or
whatever it may be, she she understands. Well, I think
she does, um, that she goes, oh, okay, today's going
to be an off day. This is what we do.
Or if I'm walking slow for a day, for whatever reason,
(15:11):
she'll just back off totally. And she just knows. So
she's very intuitive to me already. So, um, so yeah,
it's a very good match. So the guys did amazing.
S1 (15:24):
What's the kind of things that you guys do together? Yeah,
you've got a lot of very active things that maybe
she can't go to. But what are the things that
you guys do together.
S2 (15:30):
So we pretty much go to the shops every other day.
It's a couple of K's walk there and back, um,
for our major shopping centre. Um, so I make effort
to go there every couple of days. I'm into Ballarat
CBD at least a couple of times a week with
her seeing mum. So that's buses. And to get in
and out of town I go see my mum, which
(15:52):
is a few days away. Same deal on the buses
and things. Um, and I regularly head to Melbourne for, um, appointments,
for eye appointments and things like that as well. So
she's on the train with me. Doing her thing gets
me from the station over to my hospital. I usually
just walk because it's it's a city based hospital, the
(16:12):
eye and ear. So, um, she just tracks me along
and she knows the way. And, um, importantly, um, when
I really can't see anything when I leave hospital, most times, um,
due to an injection or whatever it may be. Um,
she knows where to go. Get me back. I used
to have to wait two and three hours for the
eye to settle down, so I could have enough sight
(16:34):
to confidently walk back to the station myself. And now
I just go. Let's go. I grab a coffee and
we're off. So the fact that I've got confidence in
her that she knows where the hospital is, where the
station is, where to navigate me through the station. She's amazing. So, um,
(16:56):
just those things of navigating around, um, Ballarat CBD as well.
She knows where to go, where the toilets are in
certain shopping centres for me, all those things. So if
I'm having one of those days that I just go, wow,
I can't remember or I can't figure out what's going on,
she can usually sort it out for me sometimes.
S1 (17:16):
Imagine it's kind of nice to, um, have a bit
of less mental load and have someone help help you
a bit.
S2 (17:21):
Yeah. It is. Um, and that's the thing I think
like especially in just around Melbourne CBD in particular, a
lot of the streets are bit bumpy and you know,
and also Ballarat, to be honest, there's a lot of, um,
blue stones and cobblestones and things like that floating around
in gutters. And she can navigate me around those really
easily versus before I'd be, you know, taking extra five
(17:44):
minutes to figure out what to do or where to go.
She just. If I come to a block, I just go,
you know, find a way. And two minutes later, we've
walked around whatever obstacle it was and off we go.
So she doesn't even hesitate. Um. Construction sites. There's a
lot of construction near where I live. Often there's gates
(18:04):
and things across footpaths, and she just. She'll stop. She'll wait.
And next thing you know, I tell her what to do,
and she's navigating me around whatever that obstacle may be.
So previously, I'd be like, oh, how do I get
around this? And not stressing a lot, but I'd just
be frustrated and trying to go, okay, what do I do?
(18:25):
What do I do? Now she just yep, off she goes.
So I can sort of outsource. That is a nice
way to say it a little bit. Um, as much
as I'm still in charge, um, very much. She can
figure out what to do for me and get me
around certain things. Pretty safe. So, yeah.
S3 (18:44):
One of the things.
S1 (18:45):
That is coming up that some of our senior supporters
might have noticed would be that you guys are doing
the 100 K your way. Can you tell us a
little bit about that?
S2 (18:54):
Yeah, definitely. So I've always been a bit of a
give back person, um, and try and help support, whether
it's the industry I used to be in, which was
hospitality or now that I'm visually impaired obviously Vision Australia
and seeing eye dogs. So I'm a member of the
client reference group for Vision Australia as well. So I've
(19:15):
sort of dove into that quite quickly so I could
learn to engage with people with vision impairment as well.
But the 100 K your way is sort of the
perfect thing. That ties in with my exercise. I do
a lot of kilometres every week, so and most of
it's on the treadmill. And I went, you know what?
Why don't we just throw it out there and let's
(19:35):
just let's, let's let it rip. Which is just my
motto for life at the moment anyway. And, um, I've
decided to do 100km, all in one day on a treadmill.
So I've got my team around me, my my running
guides joining me to help me control the buttons on
the treadmill because it'll be a it'll be a foreign treadmill,
being the gym ones who've had my home one. He's
(19:58):
going to do the 100 K's as well. So we're
going to start at midnight on the 1st of April.
So the first day of the official event for the
month at Planet Fitness in Delacombe, which is in Ballarat. And, um, yeah,
we're going to smash out our 100 K's, hopefully by
close of business. It'd be nice. So 5 p.m. is
our aim, but if it takes a bit longer then
(20:18):
it takes a bit longer.
S1 (20:19):
That's like walking into pretty much a jog pace, isn't it?
S2 (20:23):
Yeah, it's about five and a half. Six an hour.
So a good steady walk for the whole time. But
that's not including breaks. Um, so we'll go a little
bit faster. So probably seven. So a slow jog. So
seven k's an hour or so. And that way we
can log in a few breaks here and there. I
(20:43):
might have a nap for 15 20 minutes at some
point to rest. Um, they've got massage tables there at
the gym. All those things they've got basically creating an
open day for us, which is amazing. So anyone that's
a non-member is a member. Doesn't matter. You can turn
up and support me and run on any of the machines.
(21:04):
Do rowing, do cycling, do the treadmills, ellipticals, whatever they've
got there. Um, and there's no cost to you at
all to get into the gym for the day, so
there's no day pass required or anything. So they've been
amazing to do that for us. And, um, the idea
is that run a few K's, donate a few dollars, um,
and what every kilometre counts and every dollar counts to
(21:27):
help raise money for Vision Australia. So, um, that's going
to be a really cool event for us. Um, and
raise a bit of awareness that blind and low vision,
people can get out and do things, um, and exercise
and push boundaries and challenges like this. Um, and the
the wonderful bit. Guyana will be there for the last
probably that afternoon. She won't be the whole thing. 17
(21:50):
hours is a bit long for her to be sitting
around waiting for me. Yeah. Um, so she. She'll probably
get a little irritated if I do that. Um, so
someone will bring her down? Probably about with 2 or
3 hours to go so that she's there when we finish. Um,
because every event I do that possible that, um, she's
(22:10):
there at the finish line for me to to to
be with me and give me some love. So. Yeah.
So she's going to be there for this one as well.
S1 (22:19):
As those she's been supporting the whole time. However, she's
been slacking.
S2 (22:22):
Yeah yeah. Yeah totally. So at the end of the
day it's quite funny. She when I jump on my
treadmill at home, her standard position is sleeping next to
the treadmill.
S3 (22:31):
Yeah.
S2 (22:32):
So she she'll she'll she'll come in and she doesn't
want to be away from me, so she'll just fall
asleep next to the treadmill because she knows that's what
we do. So. And in a couple of hours she
gets up when I'm ready to go.
S3 (22:44):
Yeah.
S2 (22:44):
So. Yeah.
S1 (22:47):
Well, it's nice that she's supporting you in her own way,
which is doing.
S2 (22:51):
Nothing that she can look cute and adorable. And while
she's at the gym in particular, I'm sure there's going
to be a lot of people pay attention to her.
So that's a win. Which means the more people that
get around us, even if it's for a bit of
a how are you going, Yana? And maybe a pack
if I take her harness off? Um, she will love
(23:12):
that if I do. Um, at the end of the day,
if it helps raise money for Vision Australia, then that's
what it's going to happen.
S1 (23:17):
So sometimes you got to use the dog drawcard to
your own advantage.
S3 (23:21):
I think.
S2 (23:22):
100%. Um, and I'm also doing the trek for vision
in at the end of April, which is a trek
to New Zealand. Um, and I was actually at a
fundraiser for, um, the Vision Australia representative, Sharon, um, in December,
and I actually used Yana quite openly is a fundraising
tool and was giving cats for donations. We raised a
(23:44):
couple hundred bucks just from Yana.
S3 (23:46):
Wow.
S2 (23:47):
So and she was loving the cats. So it was
also an education because I had to take her harness
off to do that. So I educated people as to why.
So it was a really good tool for the for
that night, not just to raise money, but a bit
of education in the process.
S3 (24:01):
Well, it's.
S1 (24:02):
A win win because she enjoys it. People are learning
and then you get that thing too. But I think
one of the things that a lot of people probably
who listen to the show would, would know, but some
members of the general public, they do not think that
the dogs get very much affection or of off duty
time or, you know, I mean, as a puppy carer,
I get the comments of, well, they don't really get
much fun, do they? I'm like.
S3 (24:23):
Oh, it's all fun. I would say that, yeah.
S2 (24:27):
So I guess the easiest way I think is Yana
probably only works for 2 to 3 hours a day
in most days these days if I go to Melbourne,
she's on for the whole day sort of thing, so
we know that. But a general day, like I've been
to the shops this morning, it was an hour and
a half return trip. I've got to go out again
this afternoon, and tonight she'll work probably about 5 or
6 hours tonight. So probably an eight hour day today. Um,
(24:50):
tomorrow may only be a couple of hours. Um, the
rest of the time she's got two toys. She plays
in the backyard. She, um, loves our cat. Um, a
little too much for our cat to say, but she
is quite adorable. She'll lay in the sun, she'll have
a nap. She does what she does as a dog. Um,
and she is very much a dog. At the end
of the day, she's a lab that bounds around the
(25:11):
house and loves life and wags her tail at everything
she can and all those things. So for those that
think it is all work, it's far from it. So
it's it's a very wonderful thing to see the difference
in how she acts as well. And everyone comments that
knows her. In both lights they see a working girl,
(25:32):
you know, she's so good and all this. And then
they see her at home and go, she's just a dog.
And it's like, well, yeah, you know, she that's what
she is. She's a dog.
S3 (25:41):
She is still and.
S1 (25:42):
She's still kind of a young dog. You know, she's
still very much a baby when you think about some
pet dogs, pet Labradors, they're, um, pretty chaotic until eight,
eight years old, you know?
S2 (25:53):
Yeah. Don't tell me that.
S1 (25:55):
You know, our dogs are different. They. Well, you know,
I mean, the fact that she can, you know, do
the work that she does is is a pretty good
testament to the fact that she's not like, a pet lab.
S2 (26:04):
Yeah. So but yeah, she, she loves having a chew toy.
And her squeakers are floating around the house constantly and
you know it. And she loves playing, you know, bit
of a throw in the backyard and all those things
so very much. She gets all the love and attention
she needs. She gets all the pats and cuddles and
all those things outside of work. But she knows when
(26:26):
that harness goes on, she's and she, she, she knows
it and she loves it too. So you can see
especially when it's busy like I noticed it in in
very busy situations. She's really on it and she's just amazing. Like,
you can see the bounce in her and she's the
head's on a swivel and she, she's very switched on
(26:49):
to it.
S1 (26:55):
You've been listening to the Seeing Auto show on Vision
Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed part one of my
interview with Dale Pearce, trail Runner and Seeing Eye Dogs
handler two Yhana. The rest of this interview will air
next week, so if you're listening on radio. Don't forget
to tune in Same time next week. Or if you're
listening on podcast, subscribe to the podcast for new episodes
(27:17):
direct to your preferred podcast platform. To go and support
Dale's 100 K Your Way fundraising efforts, head to Fundraising
Vision australia.org and search Dale to find his page. For
more information on Seeing Eye dogs the work we do.
How you can help and how you can support us.
(27:38):
Head to City Vision australia.org. If you're interested in finding
out about dog guide mobility and whether that is right
for you, head to that same website. We would love
to have a chat with you. Our friendly team are
happy to chat about assessment, eligibility and more about what
what it means to become a seeing eye dog handler.
(27:59):
We have some altered dates for our New South Wales
Act roadshow. Due to cyclones and the safety of our
staff and attending guests. Keep an ear out on our
website for updates on the New South Wales Act Roadshow,
but if you have any questions, our friendly team would
love to chat with you about Dog Guide Mobility. You
(28:19):
can send us an email at Sydney clients at Vision Australia.
Org or you can head to that website again. Thank
you for listening and have a lovely rest of your week.
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