October 14, 2025 • 28 mins
On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, Harriet is joined by puppy development trainer Abi Howes. We're going to talk about some of the challenges of the season, preparing your dog or puppy and supporting them through this spooky season including strange and potentially scary decorations, tricky costumes for trick or treaters and unsafe temptations for dogs.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:19):
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. It's October now,
so we wanted to draw attention to some of the
spooky season or Halloween preparations that you can do to
help your dog. Uh, kind of some of the things
to consider around this spooky season, to keep everyone happy
(00:40):
and healthy, and some of the ways that we can
help our dogs get through some scary challenges that might
happen at this time of the year. I'm going to
be joined by Puppy Development Trainer from Seeing Eye Dogs,
Abby House, who's going to be sharing some tips with
us today and chatting. All things scary. So without further ado,
here is my interview with Abby with some puppy tips
around Halloween. Hi Abby, thanks for joining me on the
(01:08):
show today.
S2 (01:10):
Hi. Thanks for having me.
S3 (01:12):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself.
S2 (01:14):
So I'm Abby, I'm one of our puppy development trainers.
I work in the southeast, and I am very excited
to be joining you today, because we are talking about
one of my favorite times of year, Halloween.
S3 (01:24):
So all of the things kind of spooky season and
I and I know, I mean, I think Halloween feels
like it's getting bigger recently, don't you think? I feel
like I see more and more stuff. That's Halloween.
S2 (01:36):
There is absolutely more. There's definitely a few more decorated houses, um,
and a lot more lollies out and about. So lots
to keep an eye out for when you've got your
puppy out and about.
S3 (01:48):
So one of the things that I'm kind of finding
even like occasionally I'll see some very scary looking cobwebs, um,
which turn out to be, you know, um, whatever it is,
like cotton balls stretched out. So it's fine. It's fine.
But there are sometimes fear.
S2 (02:02):
Of a spider is real.
S3 (02:03):
The fear of a spider is real. Sometimes you do
see some spooky stuff out there that might be somewhat
alarming for our dogs. What are the types of things
that might be scary? Or you know, I guess novel
to a dog that you might not see. Other times
of the year.
S2 (02:18):
Yeah. So there's quite a few things we can see
this time of year. Um, really, anything novel to your
dog has the potential to be scary. Um, particularly if
it's their kind of new or it moves in a
fun way. Um, so on that topic of things that move.
So we get a lot of statues that are motion
censored this time of year, um, that walk past and
(02:39):
they might move around like lift their arms in a
really scary zombie fashion.
S3 (02:44):
Spooky.
S2 (02:44):
Um, or spooky. Or they might trigger a noise, and
then you have, like, a witch's cackle that's triggered by
a motion sensor. And that can really be, um, quite
novel and quite scary for a dog that's walking past,
regardless of their age, if they've never seen something like
that before or experience something like that. Um, and then
you have sort of your more stationary, but just kind
(03:04):
of generally creepy, weird, um, decorations. Um, so we get
a lot of, like, statues that might look a bit
funny or skeletons hanging from trees and all kind of, uh,
weird and creepy, wonderful things like that. Um, really, with
those kind of things, we're looking at silhouettes and shapes
in places that are kind of abnormal. Um, so you've
(03:26):
got something hanging in for a tree. Our dogs typically
aren't seeing objects hanging from those spaces, so that is
what can kind of cause a little bit of, uh,
concern for them. Um, and then, of course, we have
our classics. If you've got banners and streamers and things
tied to a wall or a fence and they move
and blow in the wind, and that can be quite
disconcerting for the dogs because they're not expecting, um, that
(03:49):
movement to happen.
S3 (03:51):
Yeah. I was going to say, I feel like the
wind gets everyone a little bit riled up. I was
recently on placement in a school and they said, the
students act funny when there's wind. And I said, oh,
I've seen that before, but with puppies, um, you know,
I do find.
S2 (04:04):
Absolutely.
S3 (04:05):
That they get a little bit worried about these things
that they don't expect to move, especially if it happens
to be on a fence right past where you walk them. Um,
so good to keep in mind.
S2 (04:14):
Absolutely. Especially if that wind picks up right as the
dogs come past and it moves in their peripheral. That's
even spookier. Um, so really, uh, keep an eye out
for those.
S3 (04:23):
Or touches them.
S2 (04:25):
Oh, even worse, even creepier. I mean, to be fair,
I would probably be a bit freaked out by that one, too.
S3 (04:30):
Yeah, and I guess you find some of these things,
you know, a lot of them will be outside on
people's houses. But do you find that there's some spooky
things in other places, like, you know, your Kmarts and
your Bunnings and that type of thing as well?
S2 (04:46):
Oh, absolutely. So we've got a plethora of creepy decorated houses. Um,
I know just down my street there's several houses with
some really creepy looking decorations out the front. Um, but
then you also can venture into your shopping centers, and
it's definitely becoming more of an activity, particularly for like,
kids to engage with at weekends, where they might have
(05:06):
haunted houses set up at some of the shopping centers. Um,
and then obviously you've got the shops that are selling
those decorations. So your kmart's, your Bunnings, um, your target's
all of those kind of things are selling decorations. So
what you might find is that you're walking through shopping centres,
you're in Kmart and you walk past and suddenly there's
a cackling witch that is making some noises at your dog,
which can be quite, quite freaky. On the flip side
(05:29):
of that, we also have very tempting, uh, treat dishes
that can be right at dog level for them to
want to stick their face in. So there's not just
the concern, there's also some enticing things that they might
get into. Um, but it's definitely worth keeping an eye
out for. Things that move or make noise or just
generally are a bit different looking, um, to the rest
of the year. Um, particularly if you're a street that
(05:52):
has trick or treaters, that can be a really fun one.
S3 (05:55):
I have to say, I was in Bunnings the other
day and um, and I was hearing a cat meowing
and it just did not clock in my mind. And
I didn't have a puppy with me, but I was
a bit shocked. I was worried if someone was walking
around with a cat in a cage or something like that.
So even I even it gets it gets me, to
be honest. But, um, I think it's a it's a
good point about the food as well and the then
(06:17):
the trick or treaters, because I can imagine for some dogs,
especially those that aren't necessarily the most familiar with little kids,
it might be quite scary. And as we all know,
sometimes kids like to jump out and scare each other
or do boo, and that might be not so comfortable
for some dogs.
S2 (06:35):
You have hit the nail on the head there. They
some of our dogs haven't met little children before. Some
of them are big, big fans of little children. Um,
but either way, just regardless of their experience, that element
of spooky jump scares that we all kind of love
to get into, uh, this time of year can really
freak our dogs out if, you know, they jump past
(06:56):
and a kid goes, boo! You know, that might not
be that scary to us. But for the dogs, that
can be quite a concerning thing to encounter. Um, and
then the other really interesting part with trick or treating
is that we have everybody in dress up, So that
changes the silhouette. So even if your dog is best
friends with your son, your daughter, your grandson, um, you
(07:17):
may find that your dog's actually hesitant to approach them
while they're in costume because their silhouette looks different. Um,
and they might look quite concerning. You know, they've got
one of those big scream masks on and their whole
face shape has changed, which is in itself quite a concerning, um,
thing for puppy to come to terms with, because it
is essentially like they're meeting a new person.
S3 (07:37):
And how would you, I guess, help with a dog
who's experienced some, experiencing some sort of either fear or
concern about, you know, any of those things, especially if they're,
you know, potentially or and actually, to start off with,
how might they show signs that they're not that comfortable?
S2 (07:54):
Absolutely. So the very first thing is recognizing that your
dog might not be comfortable for some dogs. They're going
to be really, really obvious about it. They are going
to move away. They're going to get quite frantic in
their behavior trying to escape. That's probably a more extreme
example for some of our other dogs, they might just
shut down, they might slow, they might be a bit
cautious to approach. They might you might notice a change
(08:15):
in their ears. Their positioning has changed. They might start
panting or lip licking. Um, and that's really trying to
draw in that extra information. Or they might just move
to you, start kind of pestering you with that treat pouch,
be like, hey, I don't know about this. I need
a bit of a bit of love. Um, so any
of those sort of changes to their normal behaviour are
a really good indicator that something's not right. Um, and
(08:37):
it could just be how they're interpreting whatever that novel
stimulus is that they are observing. If that is a
creepy witch or zombie statue that's moving around, what you
can do is give them a nice loose lead, stand
still where you are, and any time they sort of
engage with it or move towards it, give them some pats,
(08:58):
give them praise, give them a reward. Really acknowledge that
choice to move towards an investigate. We're not saying they
have to be perfectly happy with it by the end
of that session, but if we can build a dog
that's happy to investigate. We can do a whole lot
around training that over a period of time. Um, and
you might go, okay, I've now made a note that
my neighbor has a creepy skeleton that my dog has
(09:19):
reacted to because it's it's bones were moving in the wind.
So I'm going to approach that once, once a week
to to Halloween rolls around or till they take it down.
And we're just going to stand across the road and
watch it. And if puppy wants to get a bit closer, fabulous.
I'm going to acknowledge that and reward it, but I'm
not going to force that investigation. If you happen to
(09:39):
have an extra human with you, send them up to
go and investigate it. Send them to have a look.
And if puppy's like, oh, they're okay, I'm going to
go have a look to reward that and acknowledge that.
S3 (09:48):
Yeah.
S2 (09:49):
If it's more of that trick or treating scenario, it's
going to be a little bit different. Yeah a little
bit harder because you're dealing with a whole other person
and movement. Um, what can be really, really beneficial is
if they've got a mask or a hat on, ask
them to take it off for a moment, see if
puppy settles, and is more willing to engage with them
without that silhouette changing shape. Sometimes that's not going to
(10:12):
be possible. Depends what they've decided to dress up as. Um,
but what you can do there is offer them some
treats to offer puppy. Make it a positive experience again.
Nice loose lead. We don't want to force any interactions,
but if we can get them to be part of
that rewarding process and they're the positive in that experience
rather than the negative, we're going to build a bit
more confidence in that puppy.
S3 (10:33):
And I guess just kind of checking in on one
of those myths. Can you reinforce fear?
S2 (10:40):
Absolutely. So if you have a big reaction.
S3 (10:44):
Weight, you can reduce your puppy. You can reinforce fear.
S2 (10:47):
Well, you can train fear. You can train concern. So
you can train your dog to be concerned about it.
So you're not necessarily reinforcing the fear, but you can
train your puppy to be concerned about it. So, for example,
something I will confess I am terrible at. I am
the first person to jump when a car backfires.
S3 (11:05):
Yeah. Fair enough.
S2 (11:07):
I have to be really careful if I'm out with
a puppy and a car backfires and that puppy doesn't
have a reaction, but I jump and then I get
all worked up and I'm like, oh my goodness, that
was so scary. My whole behavior has changed and what
I am sending that puppy a signal of is, hey,
we should be worried about this. Yeah. If, for example,
(11:29):
that car backfires and I go, oh, nope, head in
the game and puppy is trotting along nicely and I
give them a reward, I'm reinforcing that positive learning. If
worst case scenario, both puppy and I react and we go, oh,
oh my goodness, I have to really think consciously about
how do I bring myself down? How do I bring
(11:50):
puppy down? I'm not going to go straight into training
because puppy's not going to learn anything. So we can't
reinforce fear in that sense because we're not going to
train anything. However, we can train a reaction based on ourselves.
So what we would then do is take that time
to settle. The best thing you can do if your
puppy is showing a fear response, is to remove yourself
(12:14):
and puppy until you reach a point where both you
and puppy are able to calm down. For some people,
that might be puppies. Probably going to calm down quicker
than I am when the when the car backfires. Um,
so it might be a little bit further away creating
that space to get to the point where I can
then recognize behavior changes so we can recognize that they're
(12:37):
panting less, they're settling down. They're not fixed on avoiding
looking at the object that scared them or fixed it
staring at it. Um, so you want to reinforce those
moments of progression towards desired behavior. However, keep in mind
of your reactions. So if you're going through a haunted house,
(13:00):
maybe leave puppy at home.
S3 (13:02):
Crazy. That's wild, but makes sense Because. So when it
comes to that kind of like say, you know, you're calm,
but the puppy's kind of worried and you've got that
like you're waiting for them to approach. So that rewarding
isn't going to reinforce the fear. It's more just if
you're then like, oh, this is scary. You're right. Then
they might pick up on that I guess. Mhm.
S2 (13:24):
Exactly. So we're not going to reinforce the fear if
we're rewarding, if we're nice and calm and puppy's like
oh I'm really scared. We're not going to reinforce that
feeling of scared. What we want to try and do
is reinforce any moments where you see puppy showing even
a glimmer, a sparkle of confidence. So if you have
a puppy that has seen the skeleton hang on the
(13:46):
tree and they are vocalizing and they are jumping, and
you see a moment where that puppy might still be vocalizing,
but their feet have stayed on the floor for a
lot longer. We can reward that. We're not reinforcing. Hey,
that's a big scary skeleton. What we're reinforcing is just
keep our feet on the ground. We'll be okay. And
then we keep our feet on the ground a little
(14:07):
bit longer. We do some grounding work. Um, and we
might be able to have a moment of not vocalizing,
and then we can reinforce that and then hopefully reinforcing
the progressions of behavior.
S3 (14:17):
Yeah. And then hopefully, I guess that kind of comfort
kind of comes a bit more. And so you're comforting
the dog from kind of through training in a way.
S2 (14:26):
Exactly. A really good way to think about it is
if you have ever been needing to get out of
the house on time and then you can't find your keys,
and then you're in a bit of a flurry and
you're flustered, and then you get to the door and
you're like, oh, I forgot that I needed to grab
this other thing too. And then you have to run
back inside and grab that, and you get really, really flustered,
(14:47):
and you get halfway up the driveway and you're like,
did I even lock the front door? And you're really,
really flustered. Taking a moment to bring yourself down is
the most beneficial thing. However, you're not allowing yourself that
because you're so flustered. If then someone were to go, oh,
you forgot you, you know, blah blah blah. Here's a
(15:08):
treat that's not going to reinforce the I'm not going
to lock my front door. But it might help you
take a second to go. Okay. Oh, I really could
use that cup of coffee. Thanks. Have a breather. Have
a cup of coffee. Okay. No, I did lock the
front door. Everything's okay.
S3 (15:26):
Yeah. So almost just kind of kind of break up
the panic of the whole situation.
S2 (15:31):
Exactly.
S3 (15:34):
And so one of the other things that, like you said,
would be those kind of treat temptations. Actually, I should say.
Is there anything else that we should add about kind
of spooky things do you think that we've missed in particular?
S2 (15:47):
I think what is a really good point is don't
go out seeking spooky things just because your dog has
previously had a bit of a reaction. So if, for instance,
you're walking down the street and you all know that
the neighbour on the left has a whole bunch of
spooky decorations and your dog's dogs had a bit of
a reaction, but they've worked through it. You've worked as
a really good team together to reward that calming settling
(16:09):
to the point where puppies actually gone and had a
bit of an investigation and a bit of a sniff.
Don't then spend the next week seeking out every Halloween
decoration that you can find, because we can sort of
overexpose our puppies. So let them decompress a little bit,
give them a day or two before we go and
find any new spookiness to encounter.
S3 (16:29):
So don't kind of push it for the kind of,
you know, for the sake of it, essentially.
S2 (16:35):
Exactly.
S3 (16:37):
And so when we talk about, um, kind of the
treat temptations and like you said, sometimes they'll be in
public places, which is a whole nother thing. But for example,
you know, with that rise of things that maybe kids
in particular, but also adults are taking home from, you know,
school or work or have, um, acquired in their trick
or treating adventures. How can you kind of work with
(17:00):
your dog and your home to keep the dog safe
from eating anything they maybe shouldn't.
S2 (17:07):
Absolutely. So number one is a lot this time of year.
A lot of those ingredients in some of those treats
we might be bringing home aren't going to be the
best for our puppies. There's going to be a lot
of artificial sweeteners and things like that that can be
quite detrimental to our puppies. Um, and, you know, some
of our puppies don't need any extra red food coloring
in their life. They've got they've got enough energy as
(17:28):
it is. Um, so the very first thing is going
to be keeping it stored somewhere safely and out of reach. Um,
whether that is in a container in the pantry, up
on the counter, out of reach at the back of
the bench, making sure it's somewhere puppy can't get to. Um,
that is obviously going to be our ideal number one. If,
(17:48):
for instance, that's not feasible, say you are going to
go trick or treating and the kids are going to
get all the treats out on the floor and sit
with them, make sure puppy is tethered or in their crate.
While we're sorting through all of our lovely sweets that
we've managed to gather across the evening. The other option
is then to practice that fixed heather or that leave
it work. So, um, we are big fans of practicing
(18:12):
avoiding our kibble. Um, so putting kibble on the floor,
asking our dog to leave it. Some of our, uh,
carers are pretty amazing and have managed to get, you know,
those kibbles up the legs of their dogs. Um, there's
some pretty fantastic photos out on the socials that you
can check out of that behaviour. Um, so practicing that
kind of thing with the novelty of a new item.
(18:33):
What I would recommend if we are adding a new
item in is starting with an empty packet. So if,
for example, you have found a fabulous Twix bar in your, uh,
not sponsored in your, uh, trick or treat pouch, and
you are like, yep, we love us. Twix. Go and
enjoy that Twix. Keep the wrapper with that wrapper. You're
(18:55):
going to put it in front of your puppy and
you're going to work on anytime puppy doesn't give it
a sniff, give it a look. Try to pull towards it.
you're going to reward them. Um, and you can build
out that novelty of object and smell, um, up to
the point that you can find something that might be
considered dog safe, um, pop that in front of them
(19:16):
and practice training that way. But the number one key
thing is going to be keep all of those, um,
slightly more delicious treats for humans out of the way
of the puppies.
S3 (19:28):
And, I mean, and like you said, you know, the
puppy can be in the crate on the tether and
all of those things while you're sorting all that stuff out,
there's no need to kind of tempt fate, and now's
not the best time to try your training, even if
you're pretty confident, I guess.
S2 (19:42):
Exactly. Um, and if you are wanting to involve puppy
in those fun treat moments, um, they will absolutely think
a carrot is a really lovely treat. So you can
occupy them with a carrot, a nylabone, and some peanut butter.
There are plenty of treats in their repertoire that they
will quite happily enjoy while you enjoy your treats.
S3 (20:03):
And when it comes to kind of that training of
that exercise, if they've done it with kibble, would you
assume that they can start at the same level, or
would you go back a little bit?
S2 (20:13):
You want to go back at least 50%. So if
you were at the point where, um, I've seen some
pretty impressive training take place, um, where Kara's been able
to spell out words and their dog doesn't eat the kibble,
we are not starting at that level with a new object.
We are starting way back on tether on lead and
building it back out because the smell is different. So
(20:33):
therefore the enticement level is very, very different. Um, you
may also find that you're much better working with a
higher value reward than kibble because it's a higher value
challenge than kibble. So you might choose to have a
little bit of chicken or some cut up carrot in
your treat pouch to reward puppy for ignoring that higher
challenge item.
S3 (20:53):
Yeah, and like you said, you know, you do have
those options of like kind of the, the like management
of these other things, like with the tether and with
the lead. So it's kind of a bit less, um,
room to reinforce what's not good.
S2 (21:10):
Exactly.
S3 (21:12):
Yeah.
S2 (21:12):
It's really important to not put yourself in the situation
where you have to do the training as you need
the training. So those training games are really important outside
of the circumstance of having the treats around. Um, those times,
definitely use your other tools. You have them, they're there
to support you. So make sure you, uh, take advantage
(21:34):
of them.
S3 (21:35):
Yeah, yeah. The last thing that you want to do
is be having to try and take the dogs to that.
I think Halloween this year is on Friday, so it
will be less ideal to have to go over the
weekend to, um, your local, um, emergency vet. Although if
you do have an accident, it's best to take them
first thing straight away.
S2 (21:54):
Um, absolutely. Um, so if you think they've broken into
your stash of sweets, um, make sure you go and
check that out ASAP immediately. Um, but if not, don't
run the risk of them getting into it. So make
sure it is stored somewhere safely where it's not going
to cause too much trouble.
S3 (22:14):
Yeah, I do tend to think even when I'm looking
at kind of my counters, there's there's kind of levels
of things that I'm always, always lock away. Even if
I think, oh, it's just, you know, they're not going
to do it. And my dogs don't really count, like
they don't count as surf. However, let me leaving chocolate
on the side of the counter just feels like it
would tempt fate. And it's only the one type of
thing that needs to go wrong for it to be
(22:36):
a yeah, bit of a dangerous.
S2 (22:39):
And it's always going to be the most tempting time.
Now excuse me, my lovely cat has decided my microphone
is a toy. Yeah. Um, it is the most tempting
time for them to go into something naughty is when
you have the least amount of time to deal with it. So, um,
you know, if you've got all the kids round with
(22:59):
their sweets. Having fun. That's the time. Puppy's going to
go and sneak their face into something they shouldn't be eating.
S3 (23:05):
And if they're, um. Yeah. If they're, uh, feeling a
bit neglected. Kong in a crate. Perfect. Absolutely. They're not
going to feel.
S2 (23:14):
And there.
S3 (23:14):
Is no.
S2 (23:16):
There's no bigger treat. Really? Yeah.
S3 (23:20):
Awesome. Is there anything else that you think that we
might have missed, that we should have. That we should
bring up, um, coming into this kind of spooky season?
S2 (23:29):
No, not at all. I think we've really covered kind
of the main, main elements of Halloween. The most important
thing is going to be make sure you have a
lot of fun. Um, get out there, use some really
wise opportunities to train your dog with some novel objects
that we might not see the rest of the year. Um,
but don't also overdo it and stress yourselves or puppy out.
(23:49):
Take it easy and have lots of fun and enjoy
a treat or two.
S3 (23:52):
I guess Halloween might be a good day to, um,
walk the dog early if you feel so inclined.
S2 (23:57):
Absolutely. Um, definitely get out and, uh, avoid avoid any
witches at dusk.
S3 (24:04):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
and sharing some good tips for us today.
S2 (24:08):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (24:15):
You've been listening to the Seeing Auto Show on Vision
Australia Radio. That was my interview with Abby Howes about
Halloween preparation and helping our dogs through the spooky season.
If you'd like to find more dog training tips, other
interviews from our lovely staff, clients, volunteers and community members. Um,
(24:36):
on from the Seeing Eye Dog Show, you can head
to your preferred podcast platform or our Omni FM page
for more episodes of this show Podcasted. We have the
lovely Abby on a number of times and on Omni
FM we have little playlists, so you can actually decide
whether you want to hear our handler stories, behind the scenes, uh,
(24:56):
training tips, and more. so head to your preferred podcast
provider for all, or head to our Omni FM page
for some highlights and podcasts and playlists. This past week,
we also had World Sight Day, which was on Thursday
the 9th of October. World Sight Day is dedicated to
raising awareness about blindness and eye conditions. So if an
(25:20):
eye test is something that you've been putting off, there's
no better time than the present to book an eye
test in. While there are lots of unpreventable eye conditions,
there are also a lot out there that are preventable
or manageable through early intervention. So the sooner that you
get your eyes checked, the sooner that your care team
can help work through that. If you're blind or have
(25:40):
low vision and are interested in becoming a seeing eye
dog handler or discussing if dog eyed mobility is right
for you, you can reach out to our friendly team
who are happy to chat. You can email us at
info at. Or give us a ring on 773 to
discuss dog mobility eligibility or assessment. We also have the
(26:03):
Seeing Eye Dogs Road show in Geelong that is set
for October, so you can find out from our wonderful
team all about becoming a handler. You might even be
able to meet some seeing eye dogs or try out
dog mobility yourself. The Seeing Eye Dogs Road Show is
on October the 31st, 10:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. at
(26:27):
Vision Australia Geelong in Belmont. It is free to attend,
but please register at at Vision Australia. For my last
little notice for today is that we have plenty of
puppies who are looking for their puppy carer homes. We
are looking for wonderful and dedicated volunteers to take puppies
for either six months or 12 months into their homes,
(26:50):
help raise them to be wonderful canine citizens, and hopefully
go on to be seeing eye dogs for someone who
is blind or has low vision. We cover all of
the costs and provide training and equipment. So all you
need is the time and love to raise a puppy
and welcome them into your home. You can't leave them
for more than three hours home, so you take the
puppy everywhere with you, and that's where it gets essential
(27:12):
training that will help become a seeing eye dog. If
you'd like to find out about our Puppy Caring programs,
you can head to our website at. Or you can
attend our next information session on Wednesday, October 22nd from
6 p.m. to 7 p.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time. That
(27:34):
is on our website at. Forward slash volunteer forward slash information.
Hyphen sessions are the list of all of our events
coming up, so you can meet the team and find
out about puppy caring. And that's all folks, thank you
for listening and I hope you have a lovely week.
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. It's October now,
so we wanted to draw attention to some of the
spooky season or Halloween preparations that you can do to
help your dog. Uh, kind of some of the things
to consider around this spooky season, to keep everyone happy
(00:40):
and healthy, and some of the ways that we can
help our dogs get through some scary challenges that might
happen at this time of the year. I'm going to
be joined by Puppy Development Trainer from Seeing Eye Dogs,
Abby House, who's going to be sharing some tips with
us today and chatting. All things scary. So without further ado,
here is my interview with Abby with some puppy tips
around Halloween. Hi Abby, thanks for joining me on the
(01:08):
show today.
S2 (01:10):
Hi. Thanks for having me.
S3 (01:12):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself.
S2 (01:14):
So I'm Abby, I'm one of our puppy development trainers.
I work in the southeast, and I am very excited
to be joining you today, because we are talking about
one of my favorite times of year, Halloween.
S3 (01:24):
So all of the things kind of spooky season and
I and I know, I mean, I think Halloween feels
like it's getting bigger recently, don't you think? I feel
like I see more and more stuff. That's Halloween.
S2 (01:36):
There is absolutely more. There's definitely a few more decorated houses, um,
and a lot more lollies out and about. So lots
to keep an eye out for when you've got your
puppy out and about.
S3 (01:48):
So one of the things that I'm kind of finding
even like occasionally I'll see some very scary looking cobwebs, um,
which turn out to be, you know, um, whatever it is,
like cotton balls stretched out. So it's fine. It's fine.
But there are sometimes fear.
S2 (02:02):
Of a spider is real.
S3 (02:03):
The fear of a spider is real. Sometimes you do
see some spooky stuff out there that might be somewhat
alarming for our dogs. What are the types of things
that might be scary? Or you know, I guess novel
to a dog that you might not see. Other times
of the year.
S2 (02:18):
Yeah. So there's quite a few things we can see
this time of year. Um, really, anything novel to your
dog has the potential to be scary. Um, particularly if
it's their kind of new or it moves in a
fun way. Um, so on that topic of things that move.
So we get a lot of statues that are motion
censored this time of year, um, that walk past and
(02:39):
they might move around like lift their arms in a
really scary zombie fashion.
S3 (02:44):
Spooky.
S2 (02:44):
Um, or spooky. Or they might trigger a noise, and
then you have, like, a witch's cackle that's triggered by
a motion sensor. And that can really be, um, quite
novel and quite scary for a dog that's walking past,
regardless of their age, if they've never seen something like
that before or experience something like that. Um, and then
you have sort of your more stationary, but just kind
(03:04):
of generally creepy, weird, um, decorations. Um, so we get
a lot of, like, statues that might look a bit
funny or skeletons hanging from trees and all kind of, uh,
weird and creepy, wonderful things like that. Um, really, with
those kind of things, we're looking at silhouettes and shapes
in places that are kind of abnormal. Um, so you've
(03:26):
got something hanging in for a tree. Our dogs typically
aren't seeing objects hanging from those spaces, so that is
what can kind of cause a little bit of, uh,
concern for them. Um, and then, of course, we have
our classics. If you've got banners and streamers and things
tied to a wall or a fence and they move
and blow in the wind, and that can be quite
disconcerting for the dogs because they're not expecting, um, that
(03:49):
movement to happen.
S3 (03:51):
Yeah. I was going to say, I feel like the
wind gets everyone a little bit riled up. I was
recently on placement in a school and they said, the
students act funny when there's wind. And I said, oh,
I've seen that before, but with puppies, um, you know,
I do find.
S2 (04:04):
Absolutely.
S3 (04:05):
That they get a little bit worried about these things
that they don't expect to move, especially if it happens
to be on a fence right past where you walk them. Um,
so good to keep in mind.
S2 (04:14):
Absolutely. Especially if that wind picks up right as the
dogs come past and it moves in their peripheral. That's
even spookier. Um, so really, uh, keep an eye out
for those.
S3 (04:23):
Or touches them.
S2 (04:25):
Oh, even worse, even creepier. I mean, to be fair,
I would probably be a bit freaked out by that one, too.
S3 (04:30):
Yeah, and I guess you find some of these things,
you know, a lot of them will be outside on
people's houses. But do you find that there's some spooky
things in other places, like, you know, your Kmarts and
your Bunnings and that type of thing as well?
S2 (04:46):
Oh, absolutely. So we've got a plethora of creepy decorated houses. Um,
I know just down my street there's several houses with
some really creepy looking decorations out the front. Um, but
then you also can venture into your shopping centers, and
it's definitely becoming more of an activity, particularly for like,
kids to engage with at weekends, where they might have
(05:06):
haunted houses set up at some of the shopping centers. Um,
and then obviously you've got the shops that are selling
those decorations. So your kmart's, your Bunnings, um, your target's
all of those kind of things are selling decorations. So
what you might find is that you're walking through shopping centres,
you're in Kmart and you walk past and suddenly there's
a cackling witch that is making some noises at your dog,
which can be quite, quite freaky. On the flip side
(05:29):
of that, we also have very tempting, uh, treat dishes
that can be right at dog level for them to
want to stick their face in. So there's not just
the concern, there's also some enticing things that they might
get into. Um, but it's definitely worth keeping an eye
out for. Things that move or make noise or just
generally are a bit different looking, um, to the rest
of the year. Um, particularly if you're a street that
(05:52):
has trick or treaters, that can be a really fun one.
S3 (05:55):
I have to say, I was in Bunnings the other
day and um, and I was hearing a cat meowing
and it just did not clock in my mind. And
I didn't have a puppy with me, but I was
a bit shocked. I was worried if someone was walking
around with a cat in a cage or something like that.
So even I even it gets it gets me, to
be honest. But, um, I think it's a it's a
good point about the food as well and the then
(06:17):
the trick or treaters, because I can imagine for some dogs,
especially those that aren't necessarily the most familiar with little kids,
it might be quite scary. And as we all know,
sometimes kids like to jump out and scare each other
or do boo, and that might be not so comfortable
for some dogs.
S2 (06:35):
You have hit the nail on the head there. They
some of our dogs haven't met little children before. Some
of them are big, big fans of little children. Um,
but either way, just regardless of their experience, that element
of spooky jump scares that we all kind of love
to get into, uh, this time of year can really
freak our dogs out if, you know, they jump past
(06:56):
and a kid goes, boo! You know, that might not
be that scary to us. But for the dogs, that
can be quite a concerning thing to encounter. Um, and
then the other really interesting part with trick or treating
is that we have everybody in dress up, So that
changes the silhouette. So even if your dog is best
friends with your son, your daughter, your grandson, um, you
(07:17):
may find that your dog's actually hesitant to approach them
while they're in costume because their silhouette looks different. Um,
and they might look quite concerning. You know, they've got
one of those big scream masks on and their whole
face shape has changed, which is in itself quite a concerning, um,
thing for puppy to come to terms with, because it
is essentially like they're meeting a new person.
S3 (07:37):
And how would you, I guess, help with a dog
who's experienced some, experiencing some sort of either fear or
concern about, you know, any of those things, especially if they're,
you know, potentially or and actually, to start off with,
how might they show signs that they're not that comfortable?
S2 (07:54):
Absolutely. So the very first thing is recognizing that your
dog might not be comfortable for some dogs. They're going
to be really, really obvious about it. They are going
to move away. They're going to get quite frantic in
their behavior trying to escape. That's probably a more extreme
example for some of our other dogs, they might just
shut down, they might slow, they might be a bit
cautious to approach. They might you might notice a change
(08:15):
in their ears. Their positioning has changed. They might start
panting or lip licking. Um, and that's really trying to
draw in that extra information. Or they might just move
to you, start kind of pestering you with that treat pouch,
be like, hey, I don't know about this. I need
a bit of a bit of love. Um, so any
of those sort of changes to their normal behaviour are
a really good indicator that something's not right. Um, and
(08:37):
it could just be how they're interpreting whatever that novel
stimulus is that they are observing. If that is a
creepy witch or zombie statue that's moving around, what you
can do is give them a nice loose lead, stand
still where you are, and any time they sort of
engage with it or move towards it, give them some pats,
(08:58):
give them praise, give them a reward. Really acknowledge that
choice to move towards an investigate. We're not saying they
have to be perfectly happy with it by the end
of that session, but if we can build a dog
that's happy to investigate. We can do a whole lot
around training that over a period of time. Um, and
you might go, okay, I've now made a note that
my neighbor has a creepy skeleton that my dog has
(09:19):
reacted to because it's it's bones were moving in the wind.
So I'm going to approach that once, once a week
to to Halloween rolls around or till they take it down.
And we're just going to stand across the road and
watch it. And if puppy wants to get a bit closer, fabulous.
I'm going to acknowledge that and reward it, but I'm
not going to force that investigation. If you happen to
(09:39):
have an extra human with you, send them up to
go and investigate it. Send them to have a look.
And if puppy's like, oh, they're okay, I'm going to
go have a look to reward that and acknowledge that.
S3 (09:48):
Yeah.
S2 (09:49):
If it's more of that trick or treating scenario, it's
going to be a little bit different. Yeah a little
bit harder because you're dealing with a whole other person
and movement. Um, what can be really, really beneficial is
if they've got a mask or a hat on, ask
them to take it off for a moment, see if
puppy settles, and is more willing to engage with them
without that silhouette changing shape. Sometimes that's not going to
(10:12):
be possible. Depends what they've decided to dress up as. Um,
but what you can do there is offer them some
treats to offer puppy. Make it a positive experience again.
Nice loose lead. We don't want to force any interactions,
but if we can get them to be part of
that rewarding process and they're the positive in that experience
rather than the negative, we're going to build a bit
more confidence in that puppy.
S3 (10:33):
And I guess just kind of checking in on one
of those myths. Can you reinforce fear?
S2 (10:40):
Absolutely. So if you have a big reaction.
S3 (10:44):
Weight, you can reduce your puppy. You can reinforce fear.
S2 (10:47):
Well, you can train fear. You can train concern. So
you can train your dog to be concerned about it.
So you're not necessarily reinforcing the fear, but you can
train your puppy to be concerned about it. So, for example,
something I will confess I am terrible at. I am
the first person to jump when a car backfires.
S3 (11:05):
Yeah. Fair enough.
S2 (11:07):
I have to be really careful if I'm out with
a puppy and a car backfires and that puppy doesn't
have a reaction, but I jump and then I get
all worked up and I'm like, oh my goodness, that
was so scary. My whole behavior has changed and what
I am sending that puppy a signal of is, hey,
we should be worried about this. Yeah. If, for example,
(11:29):
that car backfires and I go, oh, nope, head in
the game and puppy is trotting along nicely and I
give them a reward, I'm reinforcing that positive learning. If
worst case scenario, both puppy and I react and we go, oh,
oh my goodness, I have to really think consciously about
how do I bring myself down? How do I bring
(11:50):
puppy down? I'm not going to go straight into training
because puppy's not going to learn anything. So we can't
reinforce fear in that sense because we're not going to
train anything. However, we can train a reaction based on ourselves.
So what we would then do is take that time
to settle. The best thing you can do if your
puppy is showing a fear response, is to remove yourself
(12:14):
and puppy until you reach a point where both you
and puppy are able to calm down. For some people,
that might be puppies. Probably going to calm down quicker
than I am when the when the car backfires. Um,
so it might be a little bit further away creating
that space to get to the point where I can
then recognize behavior changes so we can recognize that they're
(12:37):
panting less, they're settling down. They're not fixed on avoiding
looking at the object that scared them or fixed it
staring at it. Um, so you want to reinforce those
moments of progression towards desired behavior. However, keep in mind
of your reactions. So if you're going through a haunted house,
(13:00):
maybe leave puppy at home.
S3 (13:02):
Crazy. That's wild, but makes sense Because. So when it
comes to that kind of like say, you know, you're calm,
but the puppy's kind of worried and you've got that
like you're waiting for them to approach. So that rewarding
isn't going to reinforce the fear. It's more just if
you're then like, oh, this is scary. You're right. Then
they might pick up on that I guess. Mhm.
S2 (13:24):
Exactly. So we're not going to reinforce the fear if
we're rewarding, if we're nice and calm and puppy's like
oh I'm really scared. We're not going to reinforce that
feeling of scared. What we want to try and do
is reinforce any moments where you see puppy showing even
a glimmer, a sparkle of confidence. So if you have
a puppy that has seen the skeleton hang on the
(13:46):
tree and they are vocalizing and they are jumping, and
you see a moment where that puppy might still be vocalizing,
but their feet have stayed on the floor for a
lot longer. We can reward that. We're not reinforcing. Hey,
that's a big scary skeleton. What we're reinforcing is just
keep our feet on the ground. We'll be okay. And
then we keep our feet on the ground a little
(14:07):
bit longer. We do some grounding work. Um, and we
might be able to have a moment of not vocalizing,
and then we can reinforce that and then hopefully reinforcing
the progressions of behavior.
S3 (14:17):
Yeah. And then hopefully, I guess that kind of comfort
kind of comes a bit more. And so you're comforting
the dog from kind of through training in a way.
S2 (14:26):
Exactly. A really good way to think about it is
if you have ever been needing to get out of
the house on time and then you can't find your keys,
and then you're in a bit of a flurry and
you're flustered, and then you get to the door and
you're like, oh, I forgot that I needed to grab
this other thing too. And then you have to run
back inside and grab that, and you get really, really flustered,
(14:47):
and you get halfway up the driveway and you're like,
did I even lock the front door? And you're really,
really flustered. Taking a moment to bring yourself down is
the most beneficial thing. However, you're not allowing yourself that
because you're so flustered. If then someone were to go, oh,
you forgot you, you know, blah blah blah. Here's a
(15:08):
treat that's not going to reinforce the I'm not going
to lock my front door. But it might help you
take a second to go. Okay. Oh, I really could
use that cup of coffee. Thanks. Have a breather. Have
a cup of coffee. Okay. No, I did lock the
front door. Everything's okay.
S3 (15:26):
Yeah. So almost just kind of kind of break up
the panic of the whole situation.
S2 (15:31):
Exactly.
S3 (15:34):
And so one of the other things that, like you said,
would be those kind of treat temptations. Actually, I should say.
Is there anything else that we should add about kind
of spooky things do you think that we've missed in particular?
S2 (15:47):
I think what is a really good point is don't
go out seeking spooky things just because your dog has
previously had a bit of a reaction. So if, for instance,
you're walking down the street and you all know that
the neighbour on the left has a whole bunch of
spooky decorations and your dog's dogs had a bit of
a reaction, but they've worked through it. You've worked as
a really good team together to reward that calming settling
(16:09):
to the point where puppies actually gone and had a
bit of an investigation and a bit of a sniff.
Don't then spend the next week seeking out every Halloween
decoration that you can find, because we can sort of
overexpose our puppies. So let them decompress a little bit,
give them a day or two before we go and
find any new spookiness to encounter.
S3 (16:29):
So don't kind of push it for the kind of,
you know, for the sake of it, essentially.
S2 (16:35):
Exactly.
S3 (16:37):
And so when we talk about, um, kind of the
treat temptations and like you said, sometimes they'll be in
public places, which is a whole nother thing. But for example,
you know, with that rise of things that maybe kids
in particular, but also adults are taking home from, you know,
school or work or have, um, acquired in their trick
or treating adventures. How can you kind of work with
(17:00):
your dog and your home to keep the dog safe
from eating anything they maybe shouldn't.
S2 (17:07):
Absolutely. So number one is a lot this time of year.
A lot of those ingredients in some of those treats
we might be bringing home aren't going to be the
best for our puppies. There's going to be a lot
of artificial sweeteners and things like that that can be
quite detrimental to our puppies. Um, and, you know, some
of our puppies don't need any extra red food coloring
in their life. They've got they've got enough energy as
(17:28):
it is. Um, so the very first thing is going
to be keeping it stored somewhere safely and out of reach. Um,
whether that is in a container in the pantry, up
on the counter, out of reach at the back of
the bench, making sure it's somewhere puppy can't get to. Um,
that is obviously going to be our ideal number one. If,
(17:48):
for instance, that's not feasible, say you are going to
go trick or treating and the kids are going to
get all the treats out on the floor and sit
with them, make sure puppy is tethered or in their crate.
While we're sorting through all of our lovely sweets that
we've managed to gather across the evening. The other option
is then to practice that fixed heather or that leave
it work. So, um, we are big fans of practicing
(18:12):
avoiding our kibble. Um, so putting kibble on the floor,
asking our dog to leave it. Some of our, uh,
carers are pretty amazing and have managed to get, you know,
those kibbles up the legs of their dogs. Um, there's
some pretty fantastic photos out on the socials that you
can check out of that behaviour. Um, so practicing that
kind of thing with the novelty of a new item.
(18:33):
What I would recommend if we are adding a new
item in is starting with an empty packet. So if,
for example, you have found a fabulous Twix bar in your, uh,
not sponsored in your, uh, trick or treat pouch, and
you are like, yep, we love us. Twix. Go and
enjoy that Twix. Keep the wrapper with that wrapper. You're
(18:55):
going to put it in front of your puppy and
you're going to work on anytime puppy doesn't give it
a sniff, give it a look. Try to pull towards it.
you're going to reward them. Um, and you can build
out that novelty of object and smell, um, up to
the point that you can find something that might be
considered dog safe, um, pop that in front of them
(19:16):
and practice training that way. But the number one key
thing is going to be keep all of those, um,
slightly more delicious treats for humans out of the way
of the puppies.
S3 (19:28):
And, I mean, and like you said, you know, the
puppy can be in the crate on the tether and
all of those things while you're sorting all that stuff out,
there's no need to kind of tempt fate, and now's
not the best time to try your training, even if
you're pretty confident, I guess.
S2 (19:42):
Exactly. Um, and if you are wanting to involve puppy
in those fun treat moments, um, they will absolutely think
a carrot is a really lovely treat. So you can
occupy them with a carrot, a nylabone, and some peanut butter.
There are plenty of treats in their repertoire that they
will quite happily enjoy while you enjoy your treats.
S3 (20:03):
And when it comes to kind of that training of
that exercise, if they've done it with kibble, would you
assume that they can start at the same level, or
would you go back a little bit?
S2 (20:13):
You want to go back at least 50%. So if
you were at the point where, um, I've seen some
pretty impressive training take place, um, where Kara's been able
to spell out words and their dog doesn't eat the kibble,
we are not starting at that level with a new object.
We are starting way back on tether on lead and
building it back out because the smell is different. So
(20:33):
therefore the enticement level is very, very different. Um, you
may also find that you're much better working with a
higher value reward than kibble because it's a higher value
challenge than kibble. So you might choose to have a
little bit of chicken or some cut up carrot in
your treat pouch to reward puppy for ignoring that higher
challenge item.
S3 (20:53):
Yeah, and like you said, you know, you do have
those options of like kind of the, the like management
of these other things, like with the tether and with
the lead. So it's kind of a bit less, um,
room to reinforce what's not good.
S2 (21:10):
Exactly.
S3 (21:12):
Yeah.
S2 (21:12):
It's really important to not put yourself in the situation
where you have to do the training as you need
the training. So those training games are really important outside
of the circumstance of having the treats around. Um, those times,
definitely use your other tools. You have them, they're there
to support you. So make sure you, uh, take advantage
(21:34):
of them.
S3 (21:35):
Yeah, yeah. The last thing that you want to do
is be having to try and take the dogs to that.
I think Halloween this year is on Friday, so it
will be less ideal to have to go over the
weekend to, um, your local, um, emergency vet. Although if
you do have an accident, it's best to take them
first thing straight away.
S2 (21:54):
Um, absolutely. Um, so if you think they've broken into
your stash of sweets, um, make sure you go and
check that out ASAP immediately. Um, but if not, don't
run the risk of them getting into it. So make
sure it is stored somewhere safely where it's not going
to cause too much trouble.
S3 (22:14):
Yeah, I do tend to think even when I'm looking
at kind of my counters, there's there's kind of levels
of things that I'm always, always lock away. Even if
I think, oh, it's just, you know, they're not going
to do it. And my dogs don't really count, like
they don't count as surf. However, let me leaving chocolate
on the side of the counter just feels like it
would tempt fate. And it's only the one type of
thing that needs to go wrong for it to be
(22:36):
a yeah, bit of a dangerous.
S2 (22:39):
And it's always going to be the most tempting time.
Now excuse me, my lovely cat has decided my microphone
is a toy. Yeah. Um, it is the most tempting
time for them to go into something naughty is when
you have the least amount of time to deal with it. So, um,
you know, if you've got all the kids round with
(22:59):
their sweets. Having fun. That's the time. Puppy's going to
go and sneak their face into something they shouldn't be eating.
S3 (23:05):
And if they're, um. Yeah. If they're, uh, feeling a
bit neglected. Kong in a crate. Perfect. Absolutely. They're not
going to feel.
S2 (23:14):
And there.
S3 (23:14):
Is no.
S2 (23:16):
There's no bigger treat. Really? Yeah.
S3 (23:20):
Awesome. Is there anything else that you think that we
might have missed, that we should have. That we should
bring up, um, coming into this kind of spooky season?
S2 (23:29):
No, not at all. I think we've really covered kind
of the main, main elements of Halloween. The most important
thing is going to be make sure you have a
lot of fun. Um, get out there, use some really
wise opportunities to train your dog with some novel objects
that we might not see the rest of the year. Um,
but don't also overdo it and stress yourselves or puppy out.
(23:49):
Take it easy and have lots of fun and enjoy
a treat or two.
S3 (23:52):
I guess Halloween might be a good day to, um,
walk the dog early if you feel so inclined.
S2 (23:57):
Absolutely. Um, definitely get out and, uh, avoid avoid any
witches at dusk.
S3 (24:04):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
and sharing some good tips for us today.
S2 (24:08):
Thanks for having me.
S1 (24:15):
You've been listening to the Seeing Auto Show on Vision
Australia Radio. That was my interview with Abby Howes about
Halloween preparation and helping our dogs through the spooky season.
If you'd like to find more dog training tips, other
interviews from our lovely staff, clients, volunteers and community members. Um,
(24:36):
on from the Seeing Eye Dog Show, you can head
to your preferred podcast platform or our Omni FM page
for more episodes of this show Podcasted. We have the
lovely Abby on a number of times and on Omni
FM we have little playlists, so you can actually decide
whether you want to hear our handler stories, behind the scenes, uh,
(24:56):
training tips, and more. so head to your preferred podcast
provider for all, or head to our Omni FM page
for some highlights and podcasts and playlists. This past week,
we also had World Sight Day, which was on Thursday
the 9th of October. World Sight Day is dedicated to
raising awareness about blindness and eye conditions. So if an
(25:20):
eye test is something that you've been putting off, there's
no better time than the present to book an eye
test in. While there are lots of unpreventable eye conditions,
there are also a lot out there that are preventable
or manageable through early intervention. So the sooner that you
get your eyes checked, the sooner that your care team
can help work through that. If you're blind or have
(25:40):
low vision and are interested in becoming a seeing eye
dog handler or discussing if dog eyed mobility is right
for you, you can reach out to our friendly team
who are happy to chat. You can email us at
info at. Or give us a ring on 773 to
discuss dog mobility eligibility or assessment. We also have the
(26:03):
Seeing Eye Dogs Road show in Geelong that is set
for October, so you can find out from our wonderful
team all about becoming a handler. You might even be
able to meet some seeing eye dogs or try out
dog mobility yourself. The Seeing Eye Dogs Road Show is
on October the 31st, 10:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. at
(26:27):
Vision Australia Geelong in Belmont. It is free to attend,
but please register at at Vision Australia. For my last
little notice for today is that we have plenty of
puppies who are looking for their puppy carer homes. We
are looking for wonderful and dedicated volunteers to take puppies
for either six months or 12 months into their homes,
(26:50):
help raise them to be wonderful canine citizens, and hopefully
go on to be seeing eye dogs for someone who
is blind or has low vision. We cover all of
the costs and provide training and equipment. So all you
need is the time and love to raise a puppy
and welcome them into your home. You can't leave them
for more than three hours home, so you take the
puppy everywhere with you, and that's where it gets essential
(27:12):
training that will help become a seeing eye dog. If
you'd like to find out about our Puppy Caring programs,
you can head to our website at. Or you can
attend our next information session on Wednesday, October 22nd from
6 p.m. to 7 p.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time. That
(27:34):
is on our website at. Forward slash volunteer forward slash information.
Hyphen sessions are the list of all of our events
coming up, so you can meet the team and find
out about puppy caring. And that's all folks, thank you
for listening and I hope you have a lovely week.
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