May 6, 2025 • 27 mins
In part two of our International Guide Dogs Day special, Harriet is joined by Seeing Eye Dogs client service manager Lester Chraim. We talk about the history of our organisation over the last 65 years of Seeing Eye Dogs and our origins, recent achievements and highlights, client surveys and feedback and our upcoming workshop developed from the client survey.
To read more about our 65th anniversary celebrations head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/news/seeing-eye-dogs-65th
To find out about our workshop Living with your ageing Seeing Eye Dog that will take place on July 19th head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/news/ageing-workshop-2025.
This workshop will be open to all dog guide handlers and hosted in person at 4 locations in person and online:
- Seeing Eye Dogs HQ Kensington, VIC
- Vision Australia Coorparoo, QLD
- Vision Australia Caringbah, NSW
- Vision Australia West Leederville, WA and;
- Online over Teams webinar.
If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/
If you're blind or have low vision and are interested in becoming a handler, please email us at info@sed.org.au or call on 1800 037 773 to discuss dog guide mobility, eligibility or assessment.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:11):
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
Dog show with me, your host, Harry Moffatt. Today I've
got part two of our International Guide Dog Day special
international Guide Dog Day was on April 30th of 2025.
So in recognition of that, I have Lester Shrem, Client
Services Manager at Seeing Eye Dogs, who's going to be
talking to us about our 65 years of seeing Eye dogs,
(00:34):
some of the recent developments and exciting happenings at Seeing
Eye Dogs, some of the things that we're proud of
in our history, and our upcoming workshop, living with Your
Aging Seeing Eye Dog, that we're going to talk about
a bit more in detail during this show. So I
hope you enjoy this interview and that you had a
happy International Guide Dog Day. Hi, Lester, thanks for joining
(01:02):
me on the show today.
S2 (01:03):
No worries. Thanks for having me.
S1 (01:04):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:07):
I am Lester Schramm. I'm a client services manager at
Vision Australia's senior dogs.
S1 (01:13):
So it's International Guide Dogs Day coming up. So we're
going to be talking, um, about a few things, kind
of I guess broader for seeing eye dogs. Um, and
we are this year celebrating, uh, how many years of
seeing eye dogs?
S2 (01:25):
Yeah, it's a big one. Uh, 65 years of seeing
eye dogs, uh, as it was founded way back when,
in 1960, as the Lady Nelson Eye Dog School. But
we have come a long way from in terms of size,
scope and, uh, what we do in the area, we,
the areas we cover around the country. It's. Yeah, it's
it's a big one.
S1 (01:47):
And how would you say I guess, and this is,
you know, a big one, but that we've progressed or
that we've changed throughout that time.
S2 (01:55):
It's I think in many ways in, in many ways,
we've also tried to keep the one of the core
ideas which was to this organization was founded by a handler. Right.
And so the the the benefit, the goal, the the
outcomes have always been very front of mind. So that
I think I hope that continues in that it shows
in what we do today, but in how we do it. Uh, well,
(02:19):
in size as well. We have grown a lot. It
was a modest operation right at the beginning, and we, uh,
but we have grown considerably even over the last. If
you consider last couple of decades, even since, um, 2005
or so, you know, we were a fraction of the
size in terms of staff, in terms of clients, dogs,
teams on the field, around the country. We're always a
(02:41):
national organization. But it didn't mean that back then we
had we're able to actually support people everywhere. We didn't
have dogs everywhere we wanted to, but we weren't able to.
But slowly but surely, you know, we've we've yeah, uh,
grown dramatically. So over the last. Less than 20 years,
we about tripled the number of dogs that we have seen,
(03:05):
our dogs that we have with clients around Australia.
S1 (03:08):
And in that last, I guess, 20 years or maybe
just a bit before that, um, I'm assuming there's one
kind of pretty big historical event in terms of merging.
S2 (03:18):
There was. Yeah, the a few, a few things, of course, happened.
We focused more of the, the last 20 years or so.
It's also coincides with the time that we still have staff,
you know, who have been here 20 years or so.
So we have it's very live even though it's historical
for a lot of people. It's very live. Some of us,
the uh, the the change of name, I think that
(03:39):
was a big one in, in 2000 or so when
it became known as Senior Dogs Australia and then in
2008 merging with Vision Australia. So it's a different type
of of of of change in, in allowing us to
continue operating but then operating in a slightly different way,
not a standalone organization anymore, but part of a of
(04:00):
a bigger, a bigger community which is which comes with
lots of benefits in terms of how we can support clients,
colleagues that we have now or that we have had
for this long time around us in other disciplines. Uh, and, and,
and just this true national reach, that vision Australia has
and that we that seeing eye dogs Australia had. But
(04:22):
then we continue that on where we continue and really,
really build on that. And so that's that's been really beneficial.
S1 (04:29):
I think I was thinking, yeah, I assume that the
merging with Vision Australia has been one of those big
things that's helped with that national reach. Um, yeah. Kind
of branching out of Victoria because, you know, even then
we have worked pretty hard in the last few years
to really, from my understanding at least, um, become a
bit more New South Wales and Queensland centric at least.
S2 (04:53):
Yeah. Yeah. We've had staff in um, WA since, uh,
in Western Australia since about 2006 or 7. From I
could gather it was slightly before I arrived up in Queensland.
We had staff since about 2004 and in New South,
(05:14):
but that's there's been small gaps in both of those states,
and New South Wales has been even patchier. We had staff,
it's more the opposite. We we rarely had staff there
and when we did it was for shorter periods, periods
of time. So we mostly didn't have staff in New
South Wales and we well hopefully have stabilised those presences.
We've grown our presence in in the other. In Queensland
(05:37):
in particular, we maintain being able to maintain it for
a very long time over 20 years. I think the
presence in WA and or almost 20 years and the
New South Wales, to actually have people there, which has
given a dramatic boost to clients, existing clients there, but
(05:58):
also to all Of of synagogues in New South Wales.
Great practitioners that we have there now. And puppy development trainer.
Puppy development trainer in Queensland. So it's it's yeah there
are great changes supporting this growth.
S1 (06:14):
Yes. True. And I guess that basing of um really
full time staff in New South Wales, um has really
helped like clients get support quicker and faster and more
efficiently clients.
S2 (06:26):
That's that has been a clients everywhere. It doesn't matter
where they are if they're in country Victoria or Sydney or,
you know, anywhere, um, Alice Springs, they want some sort of, uh,
the level, some level of agility, some level of close,
you know, what you, what you would consider close support.
(06:46):
And so that if someone needs. So there's a few
ways that we try to do that in terms of
being on the phone and being within reach of people,
we want to do that and we want to have
that wherever we are. But also saying, you know, if
I need something tomorrow, you know, are we able to
offer that? And so having staff closer to clients and
not have to book a trip that's going to happen
(07:07):
in the next, you know, say two weeks and then
people need to be available in those particular days and times.
And it's very sometimes a bit rushed. So it's um,
it's yeah, it is different. And we want to do
that within reason. You know, we can't have an instructor, um,
everywhere in the country. But we within reason, we, we
want to grow that, that presence. Presence outside of Melbourne. Yes.
S3 (07:30):
What are some of the particular highlights?
S1 (07:32):
Um, throughout our, you know, I guess more recent history
about things like programs.
S2 (07:37):
The merger is a is a big one. It has
it's been then steadily changing how we the scope of
our operation. And so we've been growing since that 2008 mark.
We had three instructors and uh, maybe around 80, 80
or 90 dogs, senior dogs working in the country. And
(07:59):
we have been very slowly. So I know it's a
long time. It's over 15 years, but we have been
growing and growing and uh, and we had two puppy
development trainers at the time and we probably called them
something else, puppy trainers. And so now we have about
a dozen puppy trainers. We have about 20 instructors, we
have about 250 teams synagogues around the country. So that
(08:22):
is a dramatic growth from from in this in 15 years.
So we're doing we're doing that part. Well, um, 2014
we inaugurated the new building. So new I mean, they're
now ten years old, but at the time they were
very new. They, they, they changed a lot of they've
been a big part of how of this growth, uh,
from 2014 to now and how many more pups we
(08:44):
can breed, how many more dogs we can, uh, house
on site means the amount of dogs we can train
at any given time. And and then the quality, of course,
of the service to those dogs, the quality of support,
quality of care to those dogs that we've been able
to provide. So 2014 was a big one. 2017 we
inaugurated our. At the end of 2017, our mobility training center,
(09:07):
the League Outward Mobility Training Center. It had been in
the works or had been in the uh, in the
in an ideation phase for, for a long time. And
so it finally came became reality. It's yeah, it's going
to be eight years. It's it's crazy that it's past
that long. At the time it was fairly unique. And
we continue to be it continues to be unique. But
(09:27):
many agencies around the world have taken notice and, you know,
have visited or virtual visits to, to gain ideas and
inspiration and made their own, uh, elsewhere in, in other places.
So that was really that was, that was very nice
as well to be able to support the, the industry
in that way.
S1 (09:48):
For anyone who isn't aware of the mobility center, what
what are the types of things that make it unique or,
you know, the highlights.
S2 (09:55):
The mobility training center, what we call the mobility training center.
It's a big warehouse space, which was really underutilized before.
It was largely an open area with, with, um, I
suppose a lot of pieces and obstacle and training, um,
things that we had to move around. And so it was,
it was used in a it was underutilized. It wasn't
(10:17):
used well enough. And, and so we had some storage here,
some things there and now or since then what we've
been able to build is, uh, go to the drawing
board and say, what would this what would we want,
you know, to be to make it a really useful
space for training dogs and for supporting clients and supporting clients,
achieving goals that they may be interested in. So we
(10:39):
went with things like, we want, uh, pretend, you know, uh,
as much as we can make it real of a
footpath of a pedestrian cross, a controlled pedestrian crossing of
steps and different types of steps and staircases, um, someone
set an escalator and we thought it was pipe dream.
Someone said we should have a train in there or
a bus. And then we eventually got a mock up
(11:00):
of a train with real furniture, and we got a
real escalator that works on command and that we we
can use it really easily to introduce dogs to it.
We have, um, much better storage space and much better, um,
places to to introduce dogs to some of these training concepts,
but also where we can bring where our colleagues, colleagues, orientation,
(11:22):
mobility specialists in Melbourne fairly frequently bring clients in to
practice these things. It's a train that doesn't. We joke
that it's a train that doesn't leave the station. It's
always there. There's no rush. The escalators, same thing. It's
it's on command. You can spend as much time as
you want. Uh, pedestrian crossing A controlled pedestrian crossing on
a button could be as simple as. Because it has
(11:45):
happened is, uh, young kids introducing young kids to what? Traffic, uh,
to cross, uh, road crossings. And what's it look like?
What's the sound like? What? It's what it's actually like.
And so all that intro in a very controlled, safe,
quiet environment. It's it's really, really valuable and it's. Yeah,
it's been fantastic.
S1 (12:04):
And sorry, I think you were about to talk about
another highlight as well.
S2 (12:08):
I was where was I going after 17. Um, we'd
have changes. It's, it's maybe hard to pinpoint. I think
around 2018 it was when we had, um, we, we
made some, some changes. But we've always been tinkering with
everything in terms of our operating program and how and
(12:28):
the impact that has had in, in how in the
dogs that we get and the quality of dogs that,
that we get or we've been able to get more dogs,
but also more dogs, uh, not only breeding more, but
getting more dogs to be successful through the program, to
be successful as breeding dogs, as working dogs, or as
(12:48):
assistance dogs with partner organizations who are able to take
the dogs who we think they might not be successful
as a seeing eye dog, but they might be successful
as an assistance dog elsewhere. And we we don't do
those services, but we partner with with really good organizations.
Who do we uh, within time, we got to, I guess,
as part of our journey as and as our staff
(13:11):
gains in, in, in practice, experience and maturity, uh, professional
maturity as well as personal, uh, being able to to
look at what else how else can we expand our practice.
And so we've been looking at other types of senior
dog programs and dog guide programs that exist, uh, elsewhere
in the world. And and to more on the same vein,
(13:32):
they're not that recent actually the from one of them
is from before this decade. But the uh, so things
that we know have given us a lot more and
have opened our horizons a little bit and how the
the cohorts, the groups of clients that we can work with.
So young people, it's something that for a long time
we said we would not, you know, as many other
(13:54):
agencies do. We we we didn't know how to. And
so we said, no, we don't work with people under
a certain age. And we just went started looking against that.
And what's how come other organizations do it so other
organizations do it? Why can't we do it? And we
started researching and now we have a well established senior
dog youth program who is not designed, which is not
(14:17):
designed to give necessarily give dogs, senior dogs to young people.
It's designed to give information and training to young people
to be able to make the decision themselves. So that's
been really successful. People go through a year long program
that involves camps coming to to our center and having experiences, uh,
half week experiences of as if they were training with a,
(14:40):
with a dog and at the end of the year,
making their decision if that's what they want for their lives,
getting a real good taste of what it is. But
regardless of their choice, they will have gained a whole
year of of training information practice into into mobility so
it doesn't at the end of the day, you know,
it's even though it's a synagogue program to us, the
(15:03):
outcomes for the for the clients, it's an individual outcome.
And we don't care if people are interested in a
dog or not because they have gained something similar, not
a similar program, but a similar type of thinking. We
also know that uh, organizations worldwide do, uh, work with wheelchairs,
clients who need a seeing eye dog and also use
(15:24):
a wheelchair. And so we started looking into that after
speaking with the client. This was in in 2019, uh,
to start researching how it is that other organizations do it.
You know, before that same thing we didn't know. And
so it would it would make sense to say we
don't do it because we don't know how to. And
so but we moved from that into, we should have
(15:46):
a look at how how it's done and had a,
you know, once we got past that to say that
we're going to look into it and we think we
can do it. And we now do. We now support
a handful of clients around the country and more clients.
Of course, the more exposure that program gets, the more
contacts we have, or more inquiries. And so we are
we are talking, I think this week we talked with
(16:08):
two other people and and we are more regularly fielding
questions from, from people who may be who may be
interested in this. It's been really, really positive.
S1 (16:18):
I know that one received a bit of media coverage
recently with one of our younger clients, um, in a wheelchair,
and it was an amazing story that she, um, was
already paired with the dog and then received the additional training.
S2 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, it would have been a very different outcome
if we didn't have that. Her case was. Yeah. Talk
about timing being being everything in life we had in
2019 when we started talking, when we started this conversation
with another person, uh, it took us That was the
(16:53):
very first contact in 2019. And so really took us.
And then when Covid hit, we of course focused on that.
And so by 2020, when we had time and some
some kind of time to to look into it is
when we, we went through a number of steps in
the very, very initial research. When we started really developing
the program, it was already 2021. And that's when, uh,
(17:16):
that's when, uh, we were contacted by this client. By 2021,
we had already agreed. We said, this is we had
a plan. We had the next the the phasing very
clearly to what we were going to do. And then
we and we thought, you know, this is the one
person we're going to work with. And all of a
sudden we had two. And because we one of our
existing handlers was going through that that unfortunate process and
(17:38):
it was it was amazing. It was great. Um, that
that things that we were able to do that and
it felt of course, we were able to justify it
very clearly. This is why we should be doing it.
It's not it wasn't that far fetched. And all of
a sudden thinking that we might be doing this once
in a year or once every two years, and all
of a sudden we were doing twice, you know, and then.
S1 (17:59):
Maybe there is a need.
S2 (18:00):
Yeah. That's right.
S3 (18:03):
So I guess that kind of goes on to.
S1 (18:05):
Um, the next thing that I was curious about, which
was listening to client feedback. Can you tell us a
bit about the client surveys?
S2 (18:14):
Yeah. We've started it's going to be five years probably
now that we we revamped the type of surveys that
we did before. We had done surveys before that had
been a little ad hoc, I suppose. And uh, so
we had in, in both in timing and scope, we
had some really in-depth great ones, but not regularly. And
(18:35):
then we had some more light touch ones that were
more frequent. So we tried to land maybe somewhere in
the middle, um, have it happen every two years between
18 and 24 months and be reasonably in-depth and reasonably,
Giving people a chance to tell to to give feedback
about their specific circumstances. And so if someone has had
(18:56):
a dog has gained a new dog very recently, there's
a set of questions. If someone has had a dog
for over a year, but also under under six years,
there's another set of questions. And if someone has had
a dog who is over eight years of age, it's
another set of questions. And so try to capture those,
at least those three cohorts, so that we can tailor
(19:17):
our response to that. And the two year being that
we gain some time to respond, you know, to the
some time to implement change if change is needed to
of those responses. And so we are we also saw
so we have only done it twice so far. We've
already seen the needle has moved already from where people
were in the first one to the second one. And
(19:38):
we are both times we are taking that feedback where
we can some, as with any feedback, you know, some
some are really things are really easy to implement and
quick and we can do those changes. And some are
things that we can implement the change, but we won't
see the results for maybe a year or two. And
so those things are in the works as well. One
(20:00):
of the things we heard in we heard about times,
but we uh, and maybe that's, that's been part of the,
the idea, uh, we know we can do more people
who people are happy, but people who, uh, have dogs
over eight years of age, uh, that group is a
little less happy than than our other groups. And so we,
(20:23):
we want to pay more attention to that. Of course,
this year, we since the end of 2024 or early
this year, we started talking and toying with the idea
of what a, a workshop of seminars, some sort of of,
of group, uh, in, you know, and so this is
where we landed, uh, developing this aging dog workshop that
(20:44):
we're going to have in in the winter this year
with that focus of everything involving a dog getting getting
older and the impacts on the handler, of course. And
what with the transition to a next level, including a
transition to a next dog, um, and impacts to the
(21:05):
to the older dog impacts the handler. So we want
to try and have that in in that's the first
for us something this with this type of focus we've
done plenty of workshops and to for staff and um
been in plenty of conferences you know for staff and
we have seen of course, how the, how client oriented
(21:25):
workshops and seminars work and so we this is a
this is an interesting one, a first for us. We
we think we think it will be successful.
S1 (21:34):
We have done webinars before have we not years ago.
S2 (21:37):
Yeah. Webinars. Exactly. So this one is we. It will
be interesting because we want to do. Something a little
a little more than that uh than just talking at people. Uh,
but we'll see. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see where we land.
But we we hope that. Yeah, it'll it'll hit the
mark in terms of even someone of course, who has
(21:59):
a young dog now, they, they might not be their
first dog. So they've already have gone through this type
of process. Uh, or if you have a young dog
now that's your first dog, you will, you know, uh,
it's part of the process. You will go through that,
that part of the process as well. It's one of
it's one of the aspects of having a working with
a living animal is that they will retire at some point.
S1 (22:23):
And is that, um, workshop going to be open to people? Um,
just our handlers or kind of any dog guide handler?
And do they have to have an old dog.
S2 (22:33):
Yeah. No. So yeah, that's right. They don't have to
have an old dog. Uh, we, we want to advertise
primarily to that group and make sure that people are
aware it's happening. But we we also don't want to say, um,
you know, the dog must be at this age or
you must be a senior dog handler. We want to
leave it. Make it as. As. Put it as a
(22:53):
resource out there for people to leave it. If people
are interested in joining, they can join. The teams we
want to talk about are just teams. You know, these
people and dogs. It's not about where, yeah, where you
have it or where you don't have it. So and
we want to make it quite broad in like I said,
not just talking about dogs, talking about people as well
(23:14):
and talking about other impacts to people. And so we'll
hopefully have component not hopefully we will have components of
training of other human welfare, animal welfare, um, potential therapies.
And what kind of vet supports dogs can people should
(23:34):
be looking out for, for, for dogs of a certain
age and so on and so on.
S1 (23:39):
So just to finish off, is there anything else that
you wanted to share in recognition of, you know, Seeing
Eye Dogs, International Guide Dog Day or the work that
we've been up to of late.
S2 (23:48):
I think we're in a good spot. We're really proud
of the work we're doing. Uh, or maybe I should
say we're really proud that our clients are happy. Uh,
you know, our clients are letting us know that they're
happy that with the work we're doing. So that's that's
really encouraging. And we I mentioned we've been growing for
the whole time I've been here. Uh, we've been in
this this growth path of, you know, just by doing
(24:11):
what we're doing nowadays. We're not saying that we want to, uh,
breed more dogs or, you know, hire tons more staff.
That's not what we're saying. But even by staying, course,
we are growing. And so, uh, it's been really nice
to hear that clients are happy with the service. And
we're getting we are able to provide that service to
a few more, few more people out there year in,
(24:32):
year out. So that's yeah, that's been great.
S1 (24:35):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me on
the show today, Lester.
S2 (24:38):
Thank you.
S1 (24:45):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed part two of
our International Guide Dog Day special with Client Services Manager
Lester Schramm. If you'd like to find out more about
seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, or how you
can help, head to our website at australia.com for information
about our Living With Your Seeing Eye Dog workshop, you
(25:06):
can head to our website. This will be a very
exciting one day workshop all about caring for your retiring
or aging seeing eye dog. This event will be free
and open to anyone who is blind or has low vision,
and currently has a dog guide. The workshop will be
held on Saturday, 19th of July at 10 a.m. to
(25:27):
5 p.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time, and you can attend
the workshop in person at Seeing Eye Dogs headquarters in
Kensington and Victoria, vision Australia, Coolaroo in Queensland, Vision Australia,
Caringbah in New South Wales, Vision Australia, West Leederville in
Western Australia. You can also join the webinar online via
(25:47):
Teams webinar. The workshop is free, but please register via
the website. The day will include five sessions by seeing experts,
a veterinarian, grief counsellor and a special guest from Melbourne's
Rehabilitation Vet Clinic, plus an interactive client panel. The topics
will include recognising signs of aging in your dog guide,
(26:08):
common health conditions in older dogs, personal experiences of retiring
a dog and transitioning to a new one. Coping with
grief and treatment and care options for older dogs. The
workshop is free, but registration is required. Register today to
secure your spot and you can register at the link
on our website in our store as a news page
about this webinar. If you have any questions, please email
(26:32):
clients at Vision Australia. Org. Thank you for listening to
the Seeing Eye Dog show and don't forget to tune
in same time next week. Have a lovely week.
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
Dog show with me, your host, Harry Moffatt. Today I've
got part two of our International Guide Dog Day special
international Guide Dog Day was on April 30th of 2025.
So in recognition of that, I have Lester Shrem, Client
Services Manager at Seeing Eye Dogs, who's going to be
talking to us about our 65 years of seeing Eye dogs,
(00:34):
some of the recent developments and exciting happenings at Seeing
Eye Dogs, some of the things that we're proud of
in our history, and our upcoming workshop, living with Your
Aging Seeing Eye Dog, that we're going to talk about
a bit more in detail during this show. So I
hope you enjoy this interview and that you had a
happy International Guide Dog Day. Hi, Lester, thanks for joining
(01:02):
me on the show today.
S2 (01:03):
No worries. Thanks for having me.
S1 (01:04):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:07):
I am Lester Schramm. I'm a client services manager at
Vision Australia's senior dogs.
S1 (01:13):
So it's International Guide Dogs Day coming up. So we're
going to be talking, um, about a few things, kind
of I guess broader for seeing eye dogs. Um, and
we are this year celebrating, uh, how many years of
seeing eye dogs?
S2 (01:25):
Yeah, it's a big one. Uh, 65 years of seeing
eye dogs, uh, as it was founded way back when,
in 1960, as the Lady Nelson Eye Dog School. But
we have come a long way from in terms of size,
scope and, uh, what we do in the area, we,
the areas we cover around the country. It's. Yeah, it's
it's a big one.
S1 (01:47):
And how would you say I guess, and this is,
you know, a big one, but that we've progressed or
that we've changed throughout that time.
S2 (01:55):
It's I think in many ways in, in many ways,
we've also tried to keep the one of the core
ideas which was to this organization was founded by a handler. Right.
And so the the the benefit, the goal, the the
outcomes have always been very front of mind. So that
I think I hope that continues in that it shows
in what we do today, but in how we do it. Uh, well,
(02:19):
in size as well. We have grown a lot. It
was a modest operation right at the beginning, and we, uh,
but we have grown considerably even over the last. If
you consider last couple of decades, even since, um, 2005
or so, you know, we were a fraction of the
size in terms of staff, in terms of clients, dogs,
teams on the field, around the country. We're always a
(02:41):
national organization. But it didn't mean that back then we
had we're able to actually support people everywhere. We didn't
have dogs everywhere we wanted to, but we weren't able to.
But slowly but surely, you know, we've we've yeah, uh,
grown dramatically. So over the last. Less than 20 years,
we about tripled the number of dogs that we have seen,
(03:05):
our dogs that we have with clients around Australia.
S1 (03:08):
And in that last, I guess, 20 years or maybe
just a bit before that, um, I'm assuming there's one
kind of pretty big historical event in terms of merging.
S2 (03:18):
There was. Yeah, the a few, a few things, of course, happened.
We focused more of the, the last 20 years or so.
It's also coincides with the time that we still have staff,
you know, who have been here 20 years or so.
So we have it's very live even though it's historical
for a lot of people. It's very live. Some of us,
the uh, the the change of name, I think that
(03:39):
was a big one in, in 2000 or so when
it became known as Senior Dogs Australia and then in
2008 merging with Vision Australia. So it's a different type
of of of of change in, in allowing us to
continue operating but then operating in a slightly different way,
not a standalone organization anymore, but part of a of
(04:00):
a bigger, a bigger community which is which comes with
lots of benefits in terms of how we can support clients,
colleagues that we have now or that we have had
for this long time around us in other disciplines. Uh, and, and,
and just this true national reach, that vision Australia has
and that we that seeing eye dogs Australia had. But
(04:22):
then we continue that on where we continue and really,
really build on that. And so that's that's been really beneficial.
S1 (04:29):
I think I was thinking, yeah, I assume that the
merging with Vision Australia has been one of those big
things that's helped with that national reach. Um, yeah. Kind
of branching out of Victoria because, you know, even then
we have worked pretty hard in the last few years
to really, from my understanding at least, um, become a
bit more New South Wales and Queensland centric at least.
S2 (04:53):
Yeah. Yeah. We've had staff in um, WA since, uh,
in Western Australia since about 2006 or 7. From I
could gather it was slightly before I arrived up in Queensland.
We had staff since about 2004 and in New South,
(05:14):
but that's there's been small gaps in both of those states,
and New South Wales has been even patchier. We had staff,
it's more the opposite. We we rarely had staff there
and when we did it was for shorter periods, periods
of time. So we mostly didn't have staff in New
South Wales and we well hopefully have stabilised those presences.
We've grown our presence in in the other. In Queensland
(05:37):
in particular, we maintain being able to maintain it for
a very long time over 20 years. I think the
presence in WA and or almost 20 years and the
New South Wales, to actually have people there, which has
given a dramatic boost to clients, existing clients there, but
(05:58):
also to all Of of synagogues in New South Wales.
Great practitioners that we have there now. And puppy development trainer.
Puppy development trainer in Queensland. So it's it's yeah there
are great changes supporting this growth.
S1 (06:14):
Yes. True. And I guess that basing of um really
full time staff in New South Wales, um has really
helped like clients get support quicker and faster and more
efficiently clients.
S2 (06:26):
That's that has been a clients everywhere. It doesn't matter
where they are if they're in country Victoria or Sydney or,
you know, anywhere, um, Alice Springs, they want some sort of, uh,
the level, some level of agility, some level of close,
you know, what you, what you would consider close support.
(06:46):
And so that if someone needs. So there's a few
ways that we try to do that in terms of
being on the phone and being within reach of people,
we want to do that and we want to have
that wherever we are. But also saying, you know, if
I need something tomorrow, you know, are we able to
offer that? And so having staff closer to clients and
not have to book a trip that's going to happen
(07:07):
in the next, you know, say two weeks and then
people need to be available in those particular days and times.
And it's very sometimes a bit rushed. So it's um,
it's yeah, it is different. And we want to do
that within reason. You know, we can't have an instructor, um,
everywhere in the country. But we within reason, we, we
want to grow that, that presence. Presence outside of Melbourne. Yes.
S3 (07:30):
What are some of the particular highlights?
S1 (07:32):
Um, throughout our, you know, I guess more recent history
about things like programs.
S2 (07:37):
The merger is a is a big one. It has
it's been then steadily changing how we the scope of
our operation. And so we've been growing since that 2008 mark.
We had three instructors and uh, maybe around 80, 80
or 90 dogs, senior dogs working in the country. And
(07:59):
we have been very slowly. So I know it's a
long time. It's over 15 years, but we have been
growing and growing and uh, and we had two puppy
development trainers at the time and we probably called them
something else, puppy trainers. And so now we have about
a dozen puppy trainers. We have about 20 instructors, we
have about 250 teams synagogues around the country. So that
(08:22):
is a dramatic growth from from in this in 15 years.
So we're doing we're doing that part. Well, um, 2014
we inaugurated the new building. So new I mean, they're
now ten years old, but at the time they were
very new. They, they, they changed a lot of they've
been a big part of how of this growth, uh,
from 2014 to now and how many more pups we
(08:44):
can breed, how many more dogs we can, uh, house
on site means the amount of dogs we can train
at any given time. And and then the quality, of course,
of the service to those dogs, the quality of support,
quality of care to those dogs that we've been able
to provide. So 2014 was a big one. 2017 we
inaugurated our. At the end of 2017, our mobility training center,
(09:07):
the League Outward Mobility Training Center. It had been in
the works or had been in the uh, in the
in an ideation phase for, for a long time. And
so it finally came became reality. It's yeah, it's going
to be eight years. It's it's crazy that it's past
that long. At the time it was fairly unique. And
we continue to be it continues to be unique. But
(09:27):
many agencies around the world have taken notice and, you know,
have visited or virtual visits to, to gain ideas and
inspiration and made their own, uh, elsewhere in, in other places.
So that was really that was, that was very nice
as well to be able to support the, the industry
in that way.
S1 (09:48):
For anyone who isn't aware of the mobility center, what
what are the types of things that make it unique or,
you know, the highlights.
S2 (09:55):
The mobility training center, what we call the mobility training center.
It's a big warehouse space, which was really underutilized before.
It was largely an open area with, with, um, I
suppose a lot of pieces and obstacle and training, um,
things that we had to move around. And so it was,
it was used in a it was underutilized. It wasn't
(10:17):
used well enough. And, and so we had some storage here,
some things there and now or since then what we've
been able to build is, uh, go to the drawing
board and say, what would this what would we want,
you know, to be to make it a really useful
space for training dogs and for supporting clients and supporting clients,
achieving goals that they may be interested in. So we
(10:39):
went with things like, we want, uh, pretend, you know, uh,
as much as we can make it real of a
footpath of a pedestrian cross, a controlled pedestrian crossing of
steps and different types of steps and staircases, um, someone
set an escalator and we thought it was pipe dream.
Someone said we should have a train in there or
a bus. And then we eventually got a mock up
(11:00):
of a train with real furniture, and we got a
real escalator that works on command and that we we
can use it really easily to introduce dogs to it.
We have, um, much better storage space and much better, um,
places to to introduce dogs to some of these training concepts,
but also where we can bring where our colleagues, colleagues, orientation,
(11:22):
mobility specialists in Melbourne fairly frequently bring clients in to
practice these things. It's a train that doesn't. We joke
that it's a train that doesn't leave the station. It's
always there. There's no rush. The escalators, same thing. It's
it's on command. You can spend as much time as
you want. Uh, pedestrian crossing A controlled pedestrian crossing on
a button could be as simple as. Because it has
(11:45):
happened is, uh, young kids introducing young kids to what? Traffic, uh,
to cross, uh, road crossings. And what's it look like?
What's the sound like? What? It's what it's actually like.
And so all that intro in a very controlled, safe,
quiet environment. It's it's really, really valuable and it's. Yeah,
it's been fantastic.
S1 (12:04):
And sorry, I think you were about to talk about
another highlight as well.
S2 (12:08):
I was where was I going after 17. Um, we'd
have changes. It's, it's maybe hard to pinpoint. I think
around 2018 it was when we had, um, we, we
made some, some changes. But we've always been tinkering with
everything in terms of our operating program and how and
(12:28):
the impact that has had in, in how in the
dogs that we get and the quality of dogs that,
that we get or we've been able to get more dogs,
but also more dogs, uh, not only breeding more, but
getting more dogs to be successful through the program, to
be successful as breeding dogs, as working dogs, or as
(12:48):
assistance dogs with partner organizations who are able to take
the dogs who we think they might not be successful
as a seeing eye dog, but they might be successful
as an assistance dog elsewhere. And we we don't do
those services, but we partner with with really good organizations.
Who do we uh, within time, we got to, I guess,
as part of our journey as and as our staff
(13:11):
gains in, in, in practice, experience and maturity, uh, professional
maturity as well as personal, uh, being able to to
look at what else how else can we expand our practice.
And so we've been looking at other types of senior
dog programs and dog guide programs that exist, uh, elsewhere
in the world. And and to more on the same vein,
(13:32):
they're not that recent actually the from one of them
is from before this decade. But the uh, so things
that we know have given us a lot more and
have opened our horizons a little bit and how the
the cohorts, the groups of clients that we can work with.
So young people, it's something that for a long time
we said we would not, you know, as many other
(13:54):
agencies do. We we we didn't know how to. And
so we said, no, we don't work with people under
a certain age. And we just went started looking against that.
And what's how come other organizations do it so other
organizations do it? Why can't we do it? And we
started researching and now we have a well established senior
dog youth program who is not designed, which is not
(14:17):
designed to give necessarily give dogs, senior dogs to young people.
It's designed to give information and training to young people
to be able to make the decision themselves. So that's
been really successful. People go through a year long program
that involves camps coming to to our center and having experiences, uh,
half week experiences of as if they were training with a,
(14:40):
with a dog and at the end of the year,
making their decision if that's what they want for their lives,
getting a real good taste of what it is. But
regardless of their choice, they will have gained a whole
year of of training information practice into into mobility so
it doesn't at the end of the day, you know,
it's even though it's a synagogue program to us, the
(15:03):
outcomes for the for the clients, it's an individual outcome.
And we don't care if people are interested in a
dog or not because they have gained something similar, not
a similar program, but a similar type of thinking. We
also know that uh, organizations worldwide do, uh, work with wheelchairs,
clients who need a seeing eye dog and also use
(15:24):
a wheelchair. And so we started looking into that after
speaking with the client. This was in in 2019, uh,
to start researching how it is that other organizations do it.
You know, before that same thing we didn't know. And
so it would it would make sense to say we
don't do it because we don't know how to. And
so but we moved from that into, we should have
(15:46):
a look at how how it's done and had a,
you know, once we got past that to say that
we're going to look into it and we think we
can do it. And we now do. We now support
a handful of clients around the country and more clients.
Of course, the more exposure that program gets, the more
contacts we have, or more inquiries. And so we are
we are talking, I think this week we talked with
(16:08):
two other people and and we are more regularly fielding
questions from, from people who may be who may be
interested in this. It's been really, really positive.
S1 (16:18):
I know that one received a bit of media coverage
recently with one of our younger clients, um, in a wheelchair,
and it was an amazing story that she, um, was
already paired with the dog and then received the additional training.
S2 (16:31):
Yeah, yeah, it would have been a very different outcome
if we didn't have that. Her case was. Yeah. Talk
about timing being being everything in life we had in
2019 when we started talking, when we started this conversation
with another person, uh, it took us That was the
(16:53):
very first contact in 2019. And so really took us.
And then when Covid hit, we of course focused on that.
And so by 2020, when we had time and some
some kind of time to to look into it is
when we, we went through a number of steps in
the very, very initial research. When we started really developing
the program, it was already 2021. And that's when, uh,
(17:16):
that's when, uh, we were contacted by this client. By 2021,
we had already agreed. We said, this is we had
a plan. We had the next the the phasing very
clearly to what we were going to do. And then
we and we thought, you know, this is the one
person we're going to work with. And all of a
sudden we had two. And because we one of our
existing handlers was going through that that unfortunate process and
(17:38):
it was it was amazing. It was great. Um, that
that things that we were able to do that and
it felt of course, we were able to justify it
very clearly. This is why we should be doing it.
It's not it wasn't that far fetched. And all of
a sudden thinking that we might be doing this once
in a year or once every two years, and all
of a sudden we were doing twice, you know, and then.
S1 (17:59):
Maybe there is a need.
S2 (18:00):
Yeah. That's right.
S3 (18:03):
So I guess that kind of goes on to.
S1 (18:05):
Um, the next thing that I was curious about, which
was listening to client feedback. Can you tell us a
bit about the client surveys?
S2 (18:14):
Yeah. We've started it's going to be five years probably
now that we we revamped the type of surveys that
we did before. We had done surveys before that had
been a little ad hoc, I suppose. And uh, so
we had in, in both in timing and scope, we
had some really in-depth great ones, but not regularly. And
(18:35):
then we had some more light touch ones that were
more frequent. So we tried to land maybe somewhere in
the middle, um, have it happen every two years between
18 and 24 months and be reasonably in-depth and reasonably,
Giving people a chance to tell to to give feedback
about their specific circumstances. And so if someone has had
(18:56):
a dog has gained a new dog very recently, there's
a set of questions. If someone has had a dog
for over a year, but also under under six years,
there's another set of questions. And if someone has had
a dog who is over eight years of age, it's
another set of questions. And so try to capture those,
at least those three cohorts, so that we can tailor
(19:17):
our response to that. And the two year being that
we gain some time to respond, you know, to the
some time to implement change if change is needed to
of those responses. And so we are we also saw
so we have only done it twice so far. We've
already seen the needle has moved already from where people
were in the first one to the second one. And
(19:38):
we are both times we are taking that feedback where
we can some, as with any feedback, you know, some
some are really things are really easy to implement and
quick and we can do those changes. And some are
things that we can implement the change, but we won't
see the results for maybe a year or two. And
so those things are in the works as well. One
(20:00):
of the things we heard in we heard about times,
but we uh, and maybe that's, that's been part of the,
the idea, uh, we know we can do more people
who people are happy, but people who, uh, have dogs
over eight years of age, uh, that group is a
little less happy than than our other groups. And so we,
(20:23):
we want to pay more attention to that. Of course,
this year, we since the end of 2024 or early
this year, we started talking and toying with the idea
of what a, a workshop of seminars, some sort of of,
of group, uh, in, you know, and so this is
where we landed, uh, developing this aging dog workshop that
(20:44):
we're going to have in in the winter this year
with that focus of everything involving a dog getting getting
older and the impacts on the handler, of course. And
what with the transition to a next level, including a
transition to a next dog, um, and impacts to the
(21:05):
to the older dog impacts the handler. So we want
to try and have that in in that's the first
for us something this with this type of focus we've
done plenty of workshops and to for staff and um
been in plenty of conferences you know for staff and
we have seen of course, how the, how client oriented
(21:25):
workshops and seminars work and so we this is a
this is an interesting one, a first for us. We
we think we think it will be successful.
S1 (21:34):
We have done webinars before have we not years ago.
S2 (21:37):
Yeah. Webinars. Exactly. So this one is we. It will
be interesting because we want to do. Something a little
a little more than that uh than just talking at people. Uh,
but we'll see. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see where we land.
But we we hope that. Yeah, it'll it'll hit the
mark in terms of even someone of course, who has
(21:59):
a young dog now, they, they might not be their
first dog. So they've already have gone through this type
of process. Uh, or if you have a young dog
now that's your first dog, you will, you know, uh,
it's part of the process. You will go through that,
that part of the process as well. It's one of
it's one of the aspects of having a working with
a living animal is that they will retire at some point.
S1 (22:23):
And is that, um, workshop going to be open to people? Um,
just our handlers or kind of any dog guide handler?
And do they have to have an old dog.
S2 (22:33):
Yeah. No. So yeah, that's right. They don't have to
have an old dog. Uh, we, we want to advertise
primarily to that group and make sure that people are
aware it's happening. But we we also don't want to say, um,
you know, the dog must be at this age or
you must be a senior dog handler. We want to
leave it. Make it as. As. Put it as a
(22:53):
resource out there for people to leave it. If people
are interested in joining, they can join. The teams we
want to talk about are just teams. You know, these
people and dogs. It's not about where, yeah, where you
have it or where you don't have it. So and
we want to make it quite broad in like I said,
not just talking about dogs, talking about people as well
(23:14):
and talking about other impacts to people. And so we'll
hopefully have component not hopefully we will have components of
training of other human welfare, animal welfare, um, potential therapies.
And what kind of vet supports dogs can people should
(23:34):
be looking out for, for, for dogs of a certain
age and so on and so on.
S1 (23:39):
So just to finish off, is there anything else that
you wanted to share in recognition of, you know, Seeing
Eye Dogs, International Guide Dog Day or the work that
we've been up to of late.
S2 (23:48):
I think we're in a good spot. We're really proud
of the work we're doing. Uh, or maybe I should
say we're really proud that our clients are happy. Uh,
you know, our clients are letting us know that they're
happy that with the work we're doing. So that's that's
really encouraging. And we I mentioned we've been growing for
the whole time I've been here. Uh, we've been in
this this growth path of, you know, just by doing
(24:11):
what we're doing nowadays. We're not saying that we want to, uh,
breed more dogs or, you know, hire tons more staff.
That's not what we're saying. But even by staying, course,
we are growing. And so, uh, it's been really nice
to hear that clients are happy with the service. And
we're getting we are able to provide that service to
a few more, few more people out there year in,
(24:32):
year out. So that's yeah, that's been great.
S1 (24:35):
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me on
the show today, Lester.
S2 (24:38):
Thank you.
S1 (24:45):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed part two of
our International Guide Dog Day special with Client Services Manager
Lester Schramm. If you'd like to find out more about
seeing Eye Dogs, the work we do, or how you
can help, head to our website at australia.com for information
about our Living With Your Seeing Eye Dog workshop, you
(25:06):
can head to our website. This will be a very
exciting one day workshop all about caring for your retiring
or aging seeing eye dog. This event will be free
and open to anyone who is blind or has low vision,
and currently has a dog guide. The workshop will be
held on Saturday, 19th of July at 10 a.m. to
(25:27):
5 p.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time, and you can attend
the workshop in person at Seeing Eye Dogs headquarters in
Kensington and Victoria, vision Australia, Coolaroo in Queensland, Vision Australia,
Caringbah in New South Wales, Vision Australia, West Leederville in
Western Australia. You can also join the webinar online via
(25:47):
Teams webinar. The workshop is free, but please register via
the website. The day will include five sessions by seeing experts,
a veterinarian, grief counsellor and a special guest from Melbourne's
Rehabilitation Vet Clinic, plus an interactive client panel. The topics
will include recognising signs of aging in your dog guide,
(26:08):
common health conditions in older dogs, personal experiences of retiring
a dog and transitioning to a new one. Coping with
grief and treatment and care options for older dogs. The
workshop is free, but registration is required. Register today to
secure your spot and you can register at the link
on our website in our store as a news page
about this webinar. If you have any questions, please email
(26:32):
clients at Vision Australia. Org. Thank you for listening to
the Seeing Eye Dog show and don't forget to tune
in same time next week. Have a lovely week.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.