April 24, 2025 • 29 mins
In part one of our International Guide Dogs Day special, Harriet is joined by Seeing Eye Dogs handler Kate Watkins. Kate has been a handler for over 50 years sharing her life with Seeing Eye Dogs across many life stages from a teenager to now. We talk about some of the changes she's seen, how different dogs have suited each life stage, and about life with her current Seeing Eye Dog Kramer.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:11):
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I'm
going to be joined by Kate Watkins, Seeing Eye Dogs handler,
to talk about her personal journey about being a seeing
eye dog handler for over 50 years. This is part
one of our International Guide Dog Day special. Next week,
I'm going to be joined by Lester Schramm, who's going
(00:32):
to be talking to us about 65 years of our school.
But we're going to be talking a bit more about
Kate's personal journey, the dogs that she's had over that
50 year period. Um, and a little bit about the
impact of seeing eye dogs on her life. So without
further ado, here is my interview with Kate. Hi, Kate,
(00:56):
thanks for joining me on the show today.
S2 (00:57):
That's all right, Harriet. Thank you for having us.
S1 (00:59):
So we are in the kind of lead up to
International Guide Dog Day. How long have you been a
seeing eye dog handler or dog guide handler for 50 years?
It's a pretty solid amount of time.
S2 (01:09):
It is? Yes. Eight dogs later. There you go. And
when I was 19, I looked at this and thought,
you know, 50 years is a long way away. Never
thought of being of being at the end of it.
S1 (01:20):
Were you 19 thinking 50 years into the future? No.
That's impressive.
S2 (01:24):
No it wasn't. I was probably thinking five years ahead
at the time.
S1 (01:29):
Maybe two, if you're lucky.
S2 (01:30):
Yeah, well, that's exactly right.
S1 (01:33):
So, I mean, it's a long time, I guess, and
you would have had a lot of different reflections. But
I'm going to start from the very beginning. Do you
remember what you know, what made you decide to get
a dog or, you know, was there anything in particular
or you just always were going to get one?
S2 (01:48):
Um, my father was actually working for Cedar at the time,
so he's got his first dog in 1969. So he'd
Cedar had been running for, you know, sort of, um, what,
ten years almost by then. Um, so he got his
first dog, and I could absolutely realize the advantage of
it because I was a cane user and I thought,
(02:09):
when I leave school, that's what I'm going to do.
And that's why I got my first dog.
S1 (02:14):
And that must have been pretty soon after that.
S2 (02:17):
Um, I finished school on the Friday and got my
first dog on the next Monday. I started training with
my next dog on the Monday. So yes. So, um,
finished HSC and moved straight on to a dog.
S1 (02:29):
And when you did kind of move straight on to
a dog, what was the experience like training with that
first dog?
S2 (02:36):
Very regimented. Um, you came into the school, you basically
spent two days, most of the time walking around the
streets of Melbourne, holding on to a handle. The other end,
which was attached to a trainer. And you never even
saw a dog. For the first two days, it was
all about learning all the different commands and um, just
walking around the streets feeling probably a bit silly walking
(02:58):
around holding a handle of a harness. But you know,
these these things happen. Um, and yeah, it was a
very regimented environment. It was four weeks training for your
first dog. It was all residential. So that's how it worked. Um,
it was five and a half. You had you had
Sundays off, if I remember. Rightly so. It was pretty,
(03:20):
pretty full on. Um, breakfast, lunch and dinner were, um,
basically done in the dining room. You you, um, had
times when you trained. You had times when you brushed
your dog's, um, you know, there was a set time
for feeding. You had a diet that you had to
learn about. So it was a very regimented environment.
S1 (03:41):
Well, and and now what has what was your last, um,
training period like two weeks?
S2 (03:48):
First week I did as home training. So in my
own environment, I like doing it that way because I'm settled. So.
Which means I can be calmer and more settled for
the dog as I start training with them. It's my environment,
not kensington's environment, which I don't know that well. So
I know all the places I want to learn in
(04:08):
that first week with the dog. And the dog settles
down much more quickly because he's at home with you.
You're confident in what you're doing and where you're going,
and it seems to me that the dog moves into
that comfortable environment with you more quickly. And the second
week I spent at Cedar, simply because I live a
fair way away. And I wanted to wanted to do
(04:30):
a lot of work in the city because I go
to the city a fair bit, and it was going
to be, you know, an hour's travelling each time I
wanted to do that or stay at Cedar for that week.
So that's what I did. And that was it. Done, finished.
S1 (04:45):
And I guess that's one of those things where, with
the benefit of all of your experience, your class probably
was a little bit less training as opposed to fine
tuning or.
S2 (04:55):
Very much.
S1 (04:55):
Those.
S2 (04:56):
Things. Yeah. And teaching this particular dog a whole pile
of things like, um, you know, where the mailbox for
the office was and things like that. You know, in
a wall of post office boxes, Kramer had to learn
which one was the one I wanted him to go to.
Things like that. So did a lot of other work
traveling around the city. So walking through all the laneways
(05:17):
at lunchtime, which are really busy, and getting him very
confident in doing things like that, so very different from
the very regimented type of training that was done when
I got my first dog. The boxes still have to
be ticked, so you have to achieve certain things. But
you know, for someone who's had a few dogs, you're
going to achieve those things a lot more quickly. And
(05:38):
what you're doing is you're because you know what you
want this dog to achieve. You know, after a few dogs,
they're the things you're going to go to a higher
level of concentrating and doing what you're doing with them.
S1 (05:50):
And I guess as well, one of the things that
might have changed in that time, too, is even the
types of dogs that are around and, you know, the
environment that you're working in, I assume would be quite
different to and you've got different obstacles, things like, you know,
people on phones or, you know, different amounts of crowds
and that type of stuff in, in very.
S2 (06:08):
Much so, you know, I mean, I got my first
dog 50 years ago. It was a very different environment
from what it is today, much quieter. Um, you know,
much no mobile phones, which is a huge difference to
these dogs because not only do they have to now
watch obstacles, they've now got to even be more aware
of people because they're not looking where they're going to. Um, there's,
(06:32):
there's advantages. There's a lot more audible signals, obviously, than
when I was, you know, back then, audible signals didn't
even exist at traffic lights. Um, so that that side
of it has changed a lot. Um, but the dogs themselves,
you know, they've still got four legs and a tail
and they, you know, still love you to pieces. Um,
they haven't changed. Probably their breeding has changed a bit,
(06:55):
but the basic dog really hasn't changed much at all.
You know, they're still, to me, labs and retrievers are
still great working dogs.
S1 (07:05):
The cues are all kind of still quite similar, I assume.
S2 (07:08):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the commands haven't changed very much,
but it's the intensity of life is what has changed
a lot. You know, the traffic has changed a lot.
They're the things that have changed. As I said, dealing
with people with mobile phones has changed things. But the
actual everyday to day work with them hasn't really altered.
S1 (07:30):
I was thinking as well, something that might have that
I wondered if you'd see as a handler or that you'd,
I guess, feel as a handler would be, um, the
difference in training methods. I know, you know, we talk
a little bit from our side of our side of
the training is like a lot more positive reinforcement, a
lot more like rewards based training compared to, you know,
(07:51):
I guess the standard and how they were trained was,
you know, positive reinforcement. And that type of training is
quite recent in the history of our industry.
S2 (08:01):
Um, seeing eye dogs, it's always been positive reinforcement. A
good pat on the head. Tell them they're a good
boy or a good girl or whatever. Um, if they
made a mistake, they they weren't ground out so much
as they were taken back to do it again. There wasn't,
you know, a lot of growling. There was more. Go back,
do it a second time. And the dog got the message. Oh,
I did it wrong the first time. That's fine. If
(08:22):
they over walked a curb, you didn't growl at them.
You just simply said no. Walk back and did it
a second time. And the dog got the message very
loud and very clear. Oops. Didn't do that right. Oops. Um,
so the difference is, of course, there was no food
rewards involved with Cedar back then. It didn't happen. Um,
but the reward system was still there. It was just
a variation of basically the same type of thing. You know,
(08:45):
we didn't do rewards, food rewards. We did positive. Give
them a pat on the head rewards. Yeah, exactly.
S1 (08:51):
And I guess actually the reworking thing is still something
that we do to this day, I believe, when I've
spoken to Kiley at least. Yeah. Um, but maybe, you know,
it's different not using food. I feel like I'm always
touching dog kibble. Personally, as a puppy carer.
S2 (09:06):
Well, see, my dog doesn't work on food rewards. I've
specifically requested that I don't do that and the school
respected that. So he doesn't actually work on food rewards.
He works on works very much on positive response to
what he does. Um, he very rarely over walks a
curb or anything like that. He walks up to the
to the light post and things like that, simply because
(09:29):
basically that's part of what he does. And he understands that.
Now everybody, every dog is different. There is no question
about that. So I just happen to have a dog
that knows what his role is. And for the most part,
he does it quite well.
S1 (09:43):
I assume for you and him, you know, a large
part of that motivation is also the bond that you've
got together.
S2 (09:49):
I would say so, yeah. You know, um, we work
very well together. I think he's absolutely divine. So, you know,
I'm just a little bit biased.
S1 (09:58):
No, no, no, no bias, no bias. But I think
one of the things that we've spoken about, um, a
few times is you've got a friend who's got a
seeing eye dog who's very different. Um, and I think
that's really amazing. You know, you could if you swapped
your dogs, how would that work?
S2 (10:13):
I'd do my head in. Really? I mean, don't get
me wrong, he's beautiful. I love him to pieces. Her dog,
but he's not my dog. He's not a dog. I
would enjoy working because he has a whole different way
of doing things. And I'm very used to these. A
dog like Kramer, who you say, come on, we're doing this.
(10:33):
And off he goes, you know, and he just gets it.
And we it's almost we have a mental telepathy with
each other. I, I love dogs who you can say
will do this. And, you know, this dog is going
to step up to it. He you don't have to
even think about it. I came back from Bendigo a
(10:55):
few weeks ago and we got off at platform eight
at Southern Cross Station, and all I had to say
to Cramer was home. I didn't have to give him
another command. He walked out of the regional area. He
walked round to the lift up two levels, straight down
to platform ten. And I thought, that's the type of
dog I want.
S1 (11:16):
I mean, and I guess for your friend, her dog
is perfect for her.
S2 (11:20):
Absolutely.
S1 (11:21):
It would be like the other way round. She'd probably
be not appreciating Cramer's abilities or his specific.
S2 (11:29):
No, because she likes to have more control. I'm happy
for Cramer to to take the lead because I know
he has the ability to do that. Now, not every
dog would have the ability. They need the reassurance of
you saying, go left, go right, find the lift. Cramer
actually doesn't need that. He he needs you to tell
him ultimately what you want him to do. And he
(11:51):
will just go do it. But there aren't that many
dogs that will do it like that. Harriet. Most of
them need that constant reassurance to know that they're actually
the next step is this step. And the next step
is this step. And you you get to the top
of the lift, and then you go forward and you
go through the gates. And then you have to find
the find the lift cream. You just say home. And
(12:12):
that was it. It was great.
S1 (12:14):
And I guess for you really, a lot of that
confidence that he's got probably comes from the fact that, you.
S2 (12:19):
Know, I've let him learn to do it.
S1 (12:20):
And that you yourself, you know, it's like second nature
to you.
S2 (12:23):
And and I know and I know and I know
he's going to do it. You know, this is the
thing I have the confidence to know that this dog
will do this, because I've given him the opportunity to
learn to do things like that. That's how it works.
S1 (12:36):
So when you have been, um, I guess thinking about,
you know, having another dog or not, has there ever
been a question or what makes you come back and
not question it? You know what I mean?
S2 (12:48):
I know what you mean. I think it's I suppose
part of it's loyalty to a particular organisation. Um, I've
always been happy with the dogs I've got from seeing
eye dogs. I haven't had any queries about, you know,
they're not up to the scratch for, for for the
for my purposes. I've had dogs that have suited particular
stages of my life. Um, and I think that's a
(13:09):
good thing that that, um, you know, when I got
my second dog, I had a two year old toddler
and a three month old baby. I did not need
the get up and go, you know, have to run
everywhere type of dog. I needed the dawdler and I
got the dawdler, you know, and I think that's how
you look at it. You look at the dog that
you've got for that part of your life. And have
(13:30):
they done a good job in matching you to that
dog for that part of your life? And I've never
queried that. I've always been happy, and I've always come
back to Cedar and said, I need to retire this dog. Um,
because of this, this, this and this. And that's exactly
what's happened. And that's probably why I keep coming back.
S1 (13:48):
And then they find the right dog and let you know,
timing wise.
S2 (13:51):
Look, the one before Clayton, I gave them a years
notice that I needed a new dog walker. Selwood was
heading towards ten years old and I said I don't
believe he should be working another summer. Selwood was a
big dog and I said I don't think it's in
his best interest to work through another hot summer. So
I'm giving you 12 months notice that I'll need a
(14:12):
new dog. And they found me a new dog within
that 12 month period, which was great. And then when
Clayton retired, um, there was discussions about, you know, what
would be the best way to go. And, um, we
decided it would be in his best interest to retire. And,
you know, they sort of said it could be, you know,
a couple of months. And that's exactly what it was,
(14:33):
which was fine.
S1 (14:36):
And looking back on some of those dogs you've had,
can you tell us a bit about, I guess, each
of them or how they've corresponded to your life as well?
S2 (14:44):
Uh, troika was my first dog, and she was the
world's best seeing eye dog, but the world's worst dog
to own. Um, she was she was a great working dog.
She was brilliant as a working dog. Nothing could distract
her ever. Her downside was she was a bitch. And basically,
if you made a mistake. She made you pay for it,
(15:04):
and she'd sulk. And that's why I like the boys. Um,
but she was. She worked until she was 12.5. She
was an amazing dog. She weighed a whole 20 kilos,
if you were lucky.
S1 (15:16):
Wow.
S2 (15:17):
And she was. She was truly an unusual little dog. Um,
but she was a great dog because she was my
first dog. And I learnt how to work a seeing
eye dog because of troika. Because she made you work.
You know, as I said, if I said left and
I meant right, she'd say, you said left. We're going left.
She was that type of dog. She knew she absolutely
(15:40):
knew that you messed up and, you know, but she
taught me so much about how to handle a dog,
and that was great. Abby was my second dog. She
was the one I got when I had the two little,
little babies. And she really was just that beautiful, soppy
Be Labrador. She was beautiful. She worked till she was
ten and she was an absolute delight of a dog.
(16:00):
She was every every child in the world loved Abby
because she would just lay there and they'd all cuddle
up to her. And she was brilliant at what she did.
And I was a mum. I stayed at home, we
went to kindergarten and playgroup and that's all she had
to do in the world, you know, and she was
quite happy doing things like that. She was fine. She
wasn't a dog that would suit me now, but she
(16:22):
suited me at that time and that's what I wanted.
And then I got the drop dead gorgeous golden retriever
tease who thought she was eating a bit, and she was, um,
and she was a flirt. And she'd sit on the
train and she'd sit up. She would never lay under
the seat because, oh, my God, if I lay under
the seat, you can't see me. And she'd smile at
(16:42):
people and she'd wink at people, and she'd flick her
ears at people. And she was a stunner. And she.
She did her job and she did it well. But
there was this constant battle between I'm a working dog
and oh my God. But I'm gorgeous. So she was
a funny dog. Uh, then we got quarry, who was
(17:02):
a beautiful little retriever. Cross. Devoted little fella. Absolutely. My dog.
Nobody else's dog in the world. He was. He belonged
to me and nobody else. He just. We bonded, and
it never changed. And even after he retired, he went.
And he went to live with a friend of mine.
And I never saw him once because he was fine
(17:26):
with them. But as soon as he saw me, he
went right backwards, really, really badly. And for the first
four weeks after he saw me, that once he'd sit
at the door each night and just cry. So we
didn't see him again because it was just too hard
on him. It didn't work because he loved being where
he was, but I was his. I was his bonding,
bonded person for life. And you know, you're never going
(17:47):
to change it. After quarry, I got Kiana, who was
a very independent. I couldn't say she was stubborn. She
wasn't stubborn. She was just her own person. She oozed
personality and her attitude was, I'm a working dog and
(18:08):
I work for you. But when you take my harness off,
I think I'm belong to the world. And she did.
She belonged to everybody. And everybody loved Keyana. She was
such a sweet creature. And we actually kept Kiana. We'd
never kept a dog before, but we kept Kiana. She
had a few health issues, and we decided we could
handle them better than trying to explain it to other people.
(18:30):
And she lived till she was 14, and she was
an absolute delight of a dog. And her and Sellwood,
who was my next dog, were best mates, loved each
other to bits. So I got Sellwood, who was a
beautiful big retriever cross. He was sponsored by the Sellwood
footballers and others and he was full on is the
(18:52):
only way I can describe Sellwood. He was absolutely full on.
It was. How many kilometers do you need to walk
a day to keep you nice and happy? Puppy? Because
he had more energy than any dog I'd ever owned.
But he was a great working dog. He was. He
and Kramer would have been the closest in that respect
that they learnt, and they absorbed information and very different dogs.
(19:17):
From the point of view that Kramer is such a
laid back little dog and Selwood was full on, but
their abilities to do things are very similar. And, um,
I think that's how you look at them that that
they both had that attribute that I was talking about before,
that you let them learn stuff and they just absorb
(19:37):
it all in. And the more you teach them, the
better dog they become for it. And some dogs can
do it and some dogs can't. And we should never,
ever say, oh, well, you know, um, Kramer can do that.
Why can't you do that to the next dog? Because
that next dog is a different dog, you know. They're
all different. They'll never be the same. Two dogs. And
(19:59):
then Selwood retired and I got the lovely Clayton, um,
who was very much a Cedar born and bred dog.
He was bred by Cedar. He was raised by a
Cedar employee. He came to us, a um, Vision Australia client,
who was me, and I also worked for Vision Australia.
And he's gone back to his puppy care who still
(20:20):
works for Vision Australia. So he's so much a cedar dog,
that one, and he's very happy. He's turns ten today,
so it's a big day for him. Happy birthday to
my beautiful Clayton. And he's very content in his old
age being an old retired dog. And then we got Kramer,
who's just gorgeous.
S1 (20:39):
And it's a full circle of a lot of different personalities.
S2 (20:42):
Totally.
S1 (20:42):
Different. And like you said, they've all been different stages.
So I do think it's funny you said about you
don't like the bitches as much anymore, but all of
your first ones were, the first ones were girls.
S2 (20:52):
The first three were girls.
S1 (20:53):
And now it's become boys.
S2 (20:55):
Yeah, except for Kiana. The rest have been all boys.
But you know what? If I could find another dog
like Abby, I'd have another girl any day of the week.
Or Kiana? Probably. But I don't want another troika. Troika
was hard work, you know? She just. She was everything.
I think you'd say a bitch is not the part
of what you want. Because they can be such difficult dogs,
(21:18):
you know? Whereas the boys, you say, don't do that. Okay,
I'll be good. You say to a girl and say,
get stuffed.
S1 (21:23):
Although maybe it just matched 19 year old you. It
was like.
S2 (21:27):
Probably did.
S1 (21:28):
The challenge at.
S2 (21:28):
The time. I absolutely needed a challenge. And by jingo,
she made me work hard. She just made you think.
And you think you thought really hard about how you
did things with that dog. That's all you know. But
I like the ease of the boys, because the boys
are such nice creatures to get along with. They don't
push your buttons, you know. They just. They just want
you to love them dearly. So, you know, they don't.
(21:50):
They don't. I don't think they need to prove themselves
to you. I think they just accept that, you know,
you're always going to be there for them and you're
going to give them a cuddle and you're going to
give them a pat on the head and you're going
to say, good boy. And they're happy with that. Sounds
like my husband. Oh, dear.
S1 (22:07):
Just a little bit of gentle validation. Yeah. That's it. Yes.
S3 (22:10):
That'll do.
S1 (22:11):
You know, I'm sure if you had to pick your
husband and your dog, your husband wouldn't want to hear.
S2 (22:15):
No.
S3 (22:15):
Probably not.
S2 (22:17):
Yeah. And I think you have to accept each dog,
you know, with its own shortcomings and its own attributes,
and accept it for what it is. And I often
say to clients who are going to retire a dog,
what you do is you work your new dog all day,
and when you go to bed, you very quietly say
(22:37):
in your head, good night to your old dog, because
you don't ever compare the two during the day. It's
not how it works because dogs are intuitive animals and
they'll pick up on it every single time.
S1 (22:50):
And I guess it's nice for you to still have
some contact with Clayton and know that he's happy in retirement.
S2 (22:55):
Absolutely.
S1 (22:56):
But I'm assuming there's no guilt. You know there's no guilt.
He obviously wouldn't want to be working now anyway.
S2 (23:01):
No, no. He's very happy being a retired dog with
three little girls. Four little girls who absolutely dote on him, um,
and get spoilt rotten. And I saw him before Christmas. We, um,
we caught up for lunch before Christmas and it was lovely,
but he went off with his carer very happily. So
that's the main thing.
S1 (23:20):
What are the things that you find interesting or that
you enjoy about being a handler?
S2 (23:24):
Uh, obviously the companionship would be, you know, um, right
up there with the top of the list. And I
think knowing that I can pretty well go anywhere. You know,
I don't need to be guided. I don't need to
ask for assistance unless I actually want to. And that
feeling of total independence that I can get from point
(23:46):
A to point B is just the best thing. Um,
we've had a very long day today, and we've gone
everywhere from Upper Ferntree Gully to Mount Evelyn to Melbourne
and back out to Kooyong, you know, and we've done
that all on public transport and just done it ourselves.
It's been great.
S1 (24:05):
Do you have a step counter on your watch or phone?
S2 (24:07):
Ah, yes. We probably average about 20,000.
S3 (24:10):
Steps a day. I was.
S1 (24:11):
Going to say it's it's in the it's in the
tens of.
S3 (24:13):
Thousands.
S2 (24:14):
It is.
S3 (24:14):
Yes it is.
S2 (24:16):
That's why the dog got short legs.
S1 (24:18):
I mean, Kramer is not the tallest dog in the world.
S3 (24:22):
Definitely not.
S1 (24:23):
Um, but he actually does have a fair turn of speed.
I feel.
S3 (24:26):
He.
S2 (24:27):
Can trot along very nicely, and but I don't. I
don't need him to be fast all the time. So
if he wants to settle into a nice, easygoing pace,
I'm quite happy for him to do that. Because if
I'm asking him to walk for 5 or 6 k's
or whatever it is, I'm not going to make him
go at a rapid speed for that whole time, because
(24:47):
all I'm going to do then is where the poor
dog out. So we just got a nice steady pace.
But yes, he's got short legs. Definitely got short legs.
S1 (24:56):
Just to finish off, is there anything else that you
would like to share with our listeners anything about? You know,
I guess being a handler or your 50 years of
handling or even potentially advice that you would give to
someone who's considering having having a seeing eye dog.
S2 (25:10):
Uh, you need to want to have the dog. Don't
do it because someone else has said you need to
get a dog. Um, that's not a good enough reason
for getting a dog. You need you need to know
that you want that dog not because someone else has
suggested it. Um, as far as the changes I've seen
over the years, I think the biggest single change would
(25:31):
be the communication between clients and the school and the trainers,
and how dogs are now chosen for people. We never
had the opportunity to actually trial dogs. Uh, for the
first four For dogs. I got, um, it was basically
(25:53):
you put your name down and you were rung up
and said, we've got a dog for you. Now, this
one will do.
S1 (25:57):
Non-negotiable.
S2 (25:58):
No. Well, just never happened. You know, it just was.
This is the dog that's going to suit you. You
went into the school and you started training, you know,
but you'd never met that dog beforehand. You didn't know
anything about the dog before you walked into the school
on the first day of your training. Nowadays, you know, um,
they ring you and they say, look, we've got a dog.
You want to take it for a walk, see how
(26:19):
it goes for you. If it's not right, let us
know and we'll see what else is available. And I
think that's that's a huge step forward because it gives
you an opportunity to think, oh, okay, this will be interesting.
See how we go with it. Um, but you don't
have any guilt in saying, well, no, that one's not
going to work for me. You know, you don't want
(26:40):
that guilt. You want to say, look, it walks too
slow or I'm sorry, it's too big or it walks
too fast or I can't face a golden retriever. and
the grooming that goes with it. So you've got the opportunities,
you know, to to basically review the situation before you
even start training. And I think that's a great thing.
(27:01):
And the other huge thing that I can see that's
changed with seeing our dogs is our opportunity to talk
to if both sides want it to the dogs, puppy carers,
that is wonderful because it gives you a insight into
what your dog was like as a puppy, and it
(27:23):
probably answers a lot of questions as to why your
dog does this or that or the other. And I
think that's a huge step forward. And not everybody, not
every client or every puppy carer wants to do that.
But at least nowadays the opportunity is there to do
that and that's really, really good.
S1 (27:41):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
and chatting with me today, Kate.
S2 (27:45):
That's all right, Harriet. It's been great.
S1 (27:52):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
Kate Watkins, talking about her story of being a seeing
eye dog handler for over 50 years. If you'd like
to find out more about seeing eye dogs, the work
we do, becoming a volunteer, or even a handler, head
to our website at. This was only part one of
(28:12):
our International Guide Dogs Day. Special International Guide Dogs Day
this year in 2025 is the 30th of April. So
next week we're going to be joined by Lester Schram,
Client Services Manager at Seeing Eye Dogs, who's going to
be talking about 65 years of our school and some
of the highlights throughout that time. So please tune in
same time next week for that episode. You can find
(28:33):
more episodes of this and other Great Vision Australia radio
shows on your preferred podcast provider or on the FM platform.
Thank you for listening and have a lovely week.
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I'm
going to be joined by Kate Watkins, Seeing Eye Dogs handler,
to talk about her personal journey about being a seeing
eye dog handler for over 50 years. This is part
one of our International Guide Dog Day special. Next week,
I'm going to be joined by Lester Schramm, who's going
(00:32):
to be talking to us about 65 years of our school.
But we're going to be talking a bit more about
Kate's personal journey, the dogs that she's had over that
50 year period. Um, and a little bit about the
impact of seeing eye dogs on her life. So without
further ado, here is my interview with Kate. Hi, Kate,
(00:56):
thanks for joining me on the show today.
S2 (00:57):
That's all right, Harriet. Thank you for having us.
S1 (00:59):
So we are in the kind of lead up to
International Guide Dog Day. How long have you been a
seeing eye dog handler or dog guide handler for 50 years?
It's a pretty solid amount of time.
S2 (01:09):
It is? Yes. Eight dogs later. There you go. And
when I was 19, I looked at this and thought,
you know, 50 years is a long way away. Never
thought of being of being at the end of it.
S1 (01:20):
Were you 19 thinking 50 years into the future? No.
That's impressive.
S2 (01:24):
No it wasn't. I was probably thinking five years ahead
at the time.
S1 (01:29):
Maybe two, if you're lucky.
S2 (01:30):
Yeah, well, that's exactly right.
S1 (01:33):
So, I mean, it's a long time, I guess, and
you would have had a lot of different reflections. But
I'm going to start from the very beginning. Do you
remember what you know, what made you decide to get
a dog or, you know, was there anything in particular
or you just always were going to get one?
S2 (01:48):
Um, my father was actually working for Cedar at the time,
so he's got his first dog in 1969. So he'd
Cedar had been running for, you know, sort of, um, what,
ten years almost by then. Um, so he got his
first dog, and I could absolutely realize the advantage of
it because I was a cane user and I thought,
(02:09):
when I leave school, that's what I'm going to do.
And that's why I got my first dog.
S1 (02:14):
And that must have been pretty soon after that.
S2 (02:17):
Um, I finished school on the Friday and got my
first dog on the next Monday. I started training with
my next dog on the Monday. So yes. So, um,
finished HSC and moved straight on to a dog.
S1 (02:29):
And when you did kind of move straight on to
a dog, what was the experience like training with that
first dog?
S2 (02:36):
Very regimented. Um, you came into the school, you basically
spent two days, most of the time walking around the
streets of Melbourne, holding on to a handle. The other end,
which was attached to a trainer. And you never even
saw a dog. For the first two days, it was
all about learning all the different commands and um, just
walking around the streets feeling probably a bit silly walking
(02:58):
around holding a handle of a harness. But you know,
these these things happen. Um, and yeah, it was a
very regimented environment. It was four weeks training for your
first dog. It was all residential. So that's how it worked. Um,
it was five and a half. You had you had
Sundays off, if I remember. Rightly so. It was pretty,
(03:20):
pretty full on. Um, breakfast, lunch and dinner were, um,
basically done in the dining room. You you, um, had
times when you trained. You had times when you brushed
your dog's, um, you know, there was a set time
for feeding. You had a diet that you had to
learn about. So it was a very regimented environment.
S1 (03:41):
Well, and and now what has what was your last, um,
training period like two weeks?
S2 (03:48):
First week I did as home training. So in my
own environment, I like doing it that way because I'm settled. So.
Which means I can be calmer and more settled for
the dog as I start training with them. It's my environment,
not kensington's environment, which I don't know that well. So
I know all the places I want to learn in
(04:08):
that first week with the dog. And the dog settles
down much more quickly because he's at home with you.
You're confident in what you're doing and where you're going,
and it seems to me that the dog moves into
that comfortable environment with you more quickly. And the second
week I spent at Cedar, simply because I live a
fair way away. And I wanted to wanted to do
(04:30):
a lot of work in the city because I go
to the city a fair bit, and it was going
to be, you know, an hour's travelling each time I
wanted to do that or stay at Cedar for that week.
So that's what I did. And that was it. Done, finished.
S1 (04:45):
And I guess that's one of those things where, with
the benefit of all of your experience, your class probably
was a little bit less training as opposed to fine
tuning or.
S2 (04:55):
Very much.
S1 (04:55):
Those.
S2 (04:56):
Things. Yeah. And teaching this particular dog a whole pile
of things like, um, you know, where the mailbox for
the office was and things like that. You know, in
a wall of post office boxes, Kramer had to learn
which one was the one I wanted him to go to.
Things like that. So did a lot of other work
traveling around the city. So walking through all the laneways
(05:17):
at lunchtime, which are really busy, and getting him very
confident in doing things like that, so very different from
the very regimented type of training that was done when
I got my first dog. The boxes still have to
be ticked, so you have to achieve certain things. But
you know, for someone who's had a few dogs, you're
going to achieve those things a lot more quickly. And
(05:38):
what you're doing is you're because you know what you
want this dog to achieve. You know, after a few dogs,
they're the things you're going to go to a higher
level of concentrating and doing what you're doing with them.
S1 (05:50):
And I guess as well, one of the things that
might have changed in that time, too, is even the
types of dogs that are around and, you know, the
environment that you're working in, I assume would be quite
different to and you've got different obstacles, things like, you know,
people on phones or, you know, different amounts of crowds
and that type of stuff in, in very.
S2 (06:08):
Much so, you know, I mean, I got my first
dog 50 years ago. It was a very different environment
from what it is today, much quieter. Um, you know,
much no mobile phones, which is a huge difference to
these dogs because not only do they have to now
watch obstacles, they've now got to even be more aware
of people because they're not looking where they're going to. Um, there's,
(06:32):
there's advantages. There's a lot more audible signals, obviously, than
when I was, you know, back then, audible signals didn't
even exist at traffic lights. Um, so that that side
of it has changed a lot. Um, but the dogs themselves,
you know, they've still got four legs and a tail
and they, you know, still love you to pieces. Um,
they haven't changed. Probably their breeding has changed a bit,
(06:55):
but the basic dog really hasn't changed much at all.
You know, they're still, to me, labs and retrievers are
still great working dogs.
S1 (07:05):
The cues are all kind of still quite similar, I assume.
S2 (07:08):
Yeah, absolutely. You know, the commands haven't changed very much,
but it's the intensity of life is what has changed
a lot. You know, the traffic has changed a lot.
They're the things that have changed. As I said, dealing
with people with mobile phones has changed things. But the
actual everyday to day work with them hasn't really altered.
S1 (07:30):
I was thinking as well, something that might have that
I wondered if you'd see as a handler or that you'd,
I guess, feel as a handler would be, um, the
difference in training methods. I know, you know, we talk
a little bit from our side of our side of
the training is like a lot more positive reinforcement, a
lot more like rewards based training compared to, you know,
(07:51):
I guess the standard and how they were trained was,
you know, positive reinforcement. And that type of training is
quite recent in the history of our industry.
S2 (08:01):
Um, seeing eye dogs, it's always been positive reinforcement. A
good pat on the head. Tell them they're a good
boy or a good girl or whatever. Um, if they
made a mistake, they they weren't ground out so much
as they were taken back to do it again. There wasn't,
you know, a lot of growling. There was more. Go back,
do it a second time. And the dog got the message. Oh,
I did it wrong the first time. That's fine. If
(08:22):
they over walked a curb, you didn't growl at them.
You just simply said no. Walk back and did it
a second time. And the dog got the message very
loud and very clear. Oops. Didn't do that right. Oops. Um,
so the difference is, of course, there was no food
rewards involved with Cedar back then. It didn't happen. Um,
but the reward system was still there. It was just
a variation of basically the same type of thing. You know,
(08:45):
we didn't do rewards, food rewards. We did positive. Give
them a pat on the head rewards. Yeah, exactly.
S1 (08:51):
And I guess actually the reworking thing is still something
that we do to this day, I believe, when I've
spoken to Kiley at least. Yeah. Um, but maybe, you know,
it's different not using food. I feel like I'm always
touching dog kibble. Personally, as a puppy carer.
S2 (09:06):
Well, see, my dog doesn't work on food rewards. I've
specifically requested that I don't do that and the school
respected that. So he doesn't actually work on food rewards.
He works on works very much on positive response to
what he does. Um, he very rarely over walks a
curb or anything like that. He walks up to the
to the light post and things like that, simply because
(09:29):
basically that's part of what he does. And he understands that.
Now everybody, every dog is different. There is no question
about that. So I just happen to have a dog
that knows what his role is. And for the most part,
he does it quite well.
S1 (09:43):
I assume for you and him, you know, a large
part of that motivation is also the bond that you've
got together.
S2 (09:49):
I would say so, yeah. You know, um, we work
very well together. I think he's absolutely divine. So, you know,
I'm just a little bit biased.
S1 (09:58):
No, no, no, no bias, no bias. But I think
one of the things that we've spoken about, um, a
few times is you've got a friend who's got a
seeing eye dog who's very different. Um, and I think
that's really amazing. You know, you could if you swapped
your dogs, how would that work?
S2 (10:13):
I'd do my head in. Really? I mean, don't get
me wrong, he's beautiful. I love him to pieces. Her dog,
but he's not my dog. He's not a dog. I
would enjoy working because he has a whole different way
of doing things. And I'm very used to these. A
dog like Kramer, who you say, come on, we're doing this.
(10:33):
And off he goes, you know, and he just gets it.
And we it's almost we have a mental telepathy with
each other. I, I love dogs who you can say
will do this. And, you know, this dog is going
to step up to it. He you don't have to
even think about it. I came back from Bendigo a
(10:55):
few weeks ago and we got off at platform eight
at Southern Cross Station, and all I had to say
to Cramer was home. I didn't have to give him
another command. He walked out of the regional area. He
walked round to the lift up two levels, straight down
to platform ten. And I thought, that's the type of
dog I want.
S1 (11:16):
I mean, and I guess for your friend, her dog
is perfect for her.
S2 (11:20):
Absolutely.
S1 (11:21):
It would be like the other way round. She'd probably
be not appreciating Cramer's abilities or his specific.
S2 (11:29):
No, because she likes to have more control. I'm happy
for Cramer to to take the lead because I know
he has the ability to do that. Now, not every
dog would have the ability. They need the reassurance of
you saying, go left, go right, find the lift. Cramer
actually doesn't need that. He he needs you to tell
him ultimately what you want him to do. And he
(11:51):
will just go do it. But there aren't that many
dogs that will do it like that. Harriet. Most of
them need that constant reassurance to know that they're actually
the next step is this step. And the next step
is this step. And you you get to the top
of the lift, and then you go forward and you
go through the gates. And then you have to find
the find the lift cream. You just say home. And
(12:12):
that was it. It was great.
S1 (12:14):
And I guess for you really, a lot of that
confidence that he's got probably comes from the fact that, you.
S2 (12:19):
Know, I've let him learn to do it.
S1 (12:20):
And that you yourself, you know, it's like second nature
to you.
S2 (12:23):
And and I know and I know and I know
he's going to do it. You know, this is the
thing I have the confidence to know that this dog
will do this, because I've given him the opportunity to
learn to do things like that. That's how it works.
S1 (12:36):
So when you have been, um, I guess thinking about,
you know, having another dog or not, has there ever
been a question or what makes you come back and
not question it? You know what I mean?
S2 (12:48):
I know what you mean. I think it's I suppose
part of it's loyalty to a particular organisation. Um, I've
always been happy with the dogs I've got from seeing
eye dogs. I haven't had any queries about, you know,
they're not up to the scratch for, for for the
for my purposes. I've had dogs that have suited particular
stages of my life. Um, and I think that's a
(13:09):
good thing that that, um, you know, when I got
my second dog, I had a two year old toddler
and a three month old baby. I did not need
the get up and go, you know, have to run
everywhere type of dog. I needed the dawdler and I
got the dawdler, you know, and I think that's how
you look at it. You look at the dog that
you've got for that part of your life. And have
(13:30):
they done a good job in matching you to that
dog for that part of your life? And I've never
queried that. I've always been happy, and I've always come
back to Cedar and said, I need to retire this dog. Um,
because of this, this, this and this. And that's exactly
what's happened. And that's probably why I keep coming back.
S1 (13:48):
And then they find the right dog and let you know,
timing wise.
S2 (13:51):
Look, the one before Clayton, I gave them a years
notice that I needed a new dog walker. Selwood was
heading towards ten years old and I said I don't
believe he should be working another summer. Selwood was a
big dog and I said I don't think it's in
his best interest to work through another hot summer. So
I'm giving you 12 months notice that I'll need a
(14:12):
new dog. And they found me a new dog within
that 12 month period, which was great. And then when
Clayton retired, um, there was discussions about, you know, what
would be the best way to go. And, um, we
decided it would be in his best interest to retire. And,
you know, they sort of said it could be, you know,
a couple of months. And that's exactly what it was,
(14:33):
which was fine.
S1 (14:36):
And looking back on some of those dogs you've had,
can you tell us a bit about, I guess, each
of them or how they've corresponded to your life as well?
S2 (14:44):
Uh, troika was my first dog, and she was the
world's best seeing eye dog, but the world's worst dog
to own. Um, she was she was a great working dog.
She was brilliant as a working dog. Nothing could distract
her ever. Her downside was she was a bitch. And basically,
if you made a mistake. She made you pay for it,
(15:04):
and she'd sulk. And that's why I like the boys. Um,
but she was. She worked until she was 12.5. She
was an amazing dog. She weighed a whole 20 kilos,
if you were lucky.
S1 (15:16):
Wow.
S2 (15:17):
And she was. She was truly an unusual little dog. Um,
but she was a great dog because she was my
first dog. And I learnt how to work a seeing
eye dog because of troika. Because she made you work.
You know, as I said, if I said left and
I meant right, she'd say, you said left. We're going left.
She was that type of dog. She knew she absolutely
(15:40):
knew that you messed up and, you know, but she
taught me so much about how to handle a dog,
and that was great. Abby was my second dog. She
was the one I got when I had the two little,
little babies. And she really was just that beautiful, soppy
Be Labrador. She was beautiful. She worked till she was
ten and she was an absolute delight of a dog.
(16:00):
She was every every child in the world loved Abby
because she would just lay there and they'd all cuddle
up to her. And she was brilliant at what she did.
And I was a mum. I stayed at home, we
went to kindergarten and playgroup and that's all she had
to do in the world, you know, and she was
quite happy doing things like that. She was fine. She
wasn't a dog that would suit me now, but she
(16:22):
suited me at that time and that's what I wanted.
And then I got the drop dead gorgeous golden retriever
tease who thought she was eating a bit, and she was, um,
and she was a flirt. And she'd sit on the
train and she'd sit up. She would never lay under
the seat because, oh, my God, if I lay under
the seat, you can't see me. And she'd smile at
(16:42):
people and she'd wink at people, and she'd flick her
ears at people. And she was a stunner. And she.
She did her job and she did it well. But
there was this constant battle between I'm a working dog
and oh my God. But I'm gorgeous. So she was
a funny dog. Uh, then we got quarry, who was
(17:02):
a beautiful little retriever. Cross. Devoted little fella. Absolutely. My dog.
Nobody else's dog in the world. He was. He belonged
to me and nobody else. He just. We bonded, and
it never changed. And even after he retired, he went.
And he went to live with a friend of mine.
And I never saw him once because he was fine
(17:26):
with them. But as soon as he saw me, he
went right backwards, really, really badly. And for the first
four weeks after he saw me, that once he'd sit
at the door each night and just cry. So we
didn't see him again because it was just too hard
on him. It didn't work because he loved being where
he was, but I was his. I was his bonding,
bonded person for life. And you know, you're never going
(17:47):
to change it. After quarry, I got Kiana, who was
a very independent. I couldn't say she was stubborn. She
wasn't stubborn. She was just her own person. She oozed
personality and her attitude was, I'm a working dog and
(18:08):
I work for you. But when you take my harness off,
I think I'm belong to the world. And she did.
She belonged to everybody. And everybody loved Keyana. She was
such a sweet creature. And we actually kept Kiana. We'd
never kept a dog before, but we kept Kiana. She
had a few health issues, and we decided we could
handle them better than trying to explain it to other people.
(18:30):
And she lived till she was 14, and she was
an absolute delight of a dog. And her and Sellwood,
who was my next dog, were best mates, loved each
other to bits. So I got Sellwood, who was a
beautiful big retriever cross. He was sponsored by the Sellwood
footballers and others and he was full on is the
(18:52):
only way I can describe Sellwood. He was absolutely full on.
It was. How many kilometers do you need to walk
a day to keep you nice and happy? Puppy? Because
he had more energy than any dog I'd ever owned.
But he was a great working dog. He was. He
and Kramer would have been the closest in that respect
that they learnt, and they absorbed information and very different dogs.
(19:17):
From the point of view that Kramer is such a
laid back little dog and Selwood was full on, but
their abilities to do things are very similar. And, um,
I think that's how you look at them that that
they both had that attribute that I was talking about before,
that you let them learn stuff and they just absorb
(19:37):
it all in. And the more you teach them, the
better dog they become for it. And some dogs can
do it and some dogs can't. And we should never,
ever say, oh, well, you know, um, Kramer can do that.
Why can't you do that to the next dog? Because
that next dog is a different dog, you know. They're
all different. They'll never be the same. Two dogs. And
(19:59):
then Selwood retired and I got the lovely Clayton, um,
who was very much a Cedar born and bred dog.
He was bred by Cedar. He was raised by a
Cedar employee. He came to us, a um, Vision Australia client,
who was me, and I also worked for Vision Australia.
And he's gone back to his puppy care who still
(20:20):
works for Vision Australia. So he's so much a cedar dog,
that one, and he's very happy. He's turns ten today,
so it's a big day for him. Happy birthday to
my beautiful Clayton. And he's very content in his old
age being an old retired dog. And then we got Kramer,
who's just gorgeous.
S1 (20:39):
And it's a full circle of a lot of different personalities.
S2 (20:42):
Totally.
S1 (20:42):
Different. And like you said, they've all been different stages.
So I do think it's funny you said about you
don't like the bitches as much anymore, but all of
your first ones were, the first ones were girls.
S2 (20:52):
The first three were girls.
S1 (20:53):
And now it's become boys.
S2 (20:55):
Yeah, except for Kiana. The rest have been all boys.
But you know what? If I could find another dog
like Abby, I'd have another girl any day of the week.
Or Kiana? Probably. But I don't want another troika. Troika
was hard work, you know? She just. She was everything.
I think you'd say a bitch is not the part
of what you want. Because they can be such difficult dogs,
(21:18):
you know? Whereas the boys, you say, don't do that. Okay,
I'll be good. You say to a girl and say,
get stuffed.
S1 (21:23):
Although maybe it just matched 19 year old you. It
was like.
S2 (21:27):
Probably did.
S1 (21:28):
The challenge at.
S2 (21:28):
The time. I absolutely needed a challenge. And by jingo,
she made me work hard. She just made you think.
And you think you thought really hard about how you
did things with that dog. That's all you know. But
I like the ease of the boys, because the boys
are such nice creatures to get along with. They don't
push your buttons, you know. They just. They just want
you to love them dearly. So, you know, they don't.
(21:50):
They don't. I don't think they need to prove themselves
to you. I think they just accept that, you know,
you're always going to be there for them and you're
going to give them a cuddle and you're going to
give them a pat on the head and you're going
to say, good boy. And they're happy with that. Sounds
like my husband. Oh, dear.
S1 (22:07):
Just a little bit of gentle validation. Yeah. That's it. Yes.
S3 (22:10):
That'll do.
S1 (22:11):
You know, I'm sure if you had to pick your
husband and your dog, your husband wouldn't want to hear.
S2 (22:15):
No.
S3 (22:15):
Probably not.
S2 (22:17):
Yeah. And I think you have to accept each dog,
you know, with its own shortcomings and its own attributes,
and accept it for what it is. And I often
say to clients who are going to retire a dog,
what you do is you work your new dog all day,
and when you go to bed, you very quietly say
(22:37):
in your head, good night to your old dog, because
you don't ever compare the two during the day. It's
not how it works because dogs are intuitive animals and
they'll pick up on it every single time.
S1 (22:50):
And I guess it's nice for you to still have
some contact with Clayton and know that he's happy in retirement.
S2 (22:55):
Absolutely.
S1 (22:56):
But I'm assuming there's no guilt. You know there's no guilt.
He obviously wouldn't want to be working now anyway.
S2 (23:01):
No, no. He's very happy being a retired dog with
three little girls. Four little girls who absolutely dote on him, um,
and get spoilt rotten. And I saw him before Christmas. We, um,
we caught up for lunch before Christmas and it was lovely,
but he went off with his carer very happily. So
that's the main thing.
S1 (23:20):
What are the things that you find interesting or that
you enjoy about being a handler?
S2 (23:24):
Uh, obviously the companionship would be, you know, um, right
up there with the top of the list. And I
think knowing that I can pretty well go anywhere. You know,
I don't need to be guided. I don't need to
ask for assistance unless I actually want to. And that
feeling of total independence that I can get from point
(23:46):
A to point B is just the best thing. Um,
we've had a very long day today, and we've gone
everywhere from Upper Ferntree Gully to Mount Evelyn to Melbourne
and back out to Kooyong, you know, and we've done
that all on public transport and just done it ourselves.
It's been great.
S1 (24:05):
Do you have a step counter on your watch or phone?
S2 (24:07):
Ah, yes. We probably average about 20,000.
S3 (24:10):
Steps a day. I was.
S1 (24:11):
Going to say it's it's in the it's in the
tens of.
S3 (24:13):
Thousands.
S2 (24:14):
It is.
S3 (24:14):
Yes it is.
S2 (24:16):
That's why the dog got short legs.
S1 (24:18):
I mean, Kramer is not the tallest dog in the world.
S3 (24:22):
Definitely not.
S1 (24:23):
Um, but he actually does have a fair turn of speed.
I feel.
S3 (24:26):
He.
S2 (24:27):
Can trot along very nicely, and but I don't. I
don't need him to be fast all the time. So
if he wants to settle into a nice, easygoing pace,
I'm quite happy for him to do that. Because if
I'm asking him to walk for 5 or 6 k's
or whatever it is, I'm not going to make him
go at a rapid speed for that whole time, because
(24:47):
all I'm going to do then is where the poor
dog out. So we just got a nice steady pace.
But yes, he's got short legs. Definitely got short legs.
S1 (24:56):
Just to finish off, is there anything else that you
would like to share with our listeners anything about? You know,
I guess being a handler or your 50 years of
handling or even potentially advice that you would give to
someone who's considering having having a seeing eye dog.
S2 (25:10):
Uh, you need to want to have the dog. Don't
do it because someone else has said you need to
get a dog. Um, that's not a good enough reason
for getting a dog. You need you need to know
that you want that dog not because someone else has
suggested it. Um, as far as the changes I've seen
over the years, I think the biggest single change would
(25:31):
be the communication between clients and the school and the trainers,
and how dogs are now chosen for people. We never
had the opportunity to actually trial dogs. Uh, for the
first four For dogs. I got, um, it was basically
(25:53):
you put your name down and you were rung up
and said, we've got a dog for you. Now, this
one will do.
S1 (25:57):
Non-negotiable.
S2 (25:58):
No. Well, just never happened. You know, it just was.
This is the dog that's going to suit you. You
went into the school and you started training, you know,
but you'd never met that dog beforehand. You didn't know
anything about the dog before you walked into the school
on the first day of your training. Nowadays, you know, um,
they ring you and they say, look, we've got a dog.
You want to take it for a walk, see how
(26:19):
it goes for you. If it's not right, let us
know and we'll see what else is available. And I
think that's that's a huge step forward because it gives
you an opportunity to think, oh, okay, this will be interesting.
See how we go with it. Um, but you don't
have any guilt in saying, well, no, that one's not
going to work for me. You know, you don't want
(26:40):
that guilt. You want to say, look, it walks too
slow or I'm sorry, it's too big or it walks
too fast or I can't face a golden retriever. and
the grooming that goes with it. So you've got the opportunities,
you know, to to basically review the situation before you
even start training. And I think that's a great thing.
(27:01):
And the other huge thing that I can see that's
changed with seeing our dogs is our opportunity to talk
to if both sides want it to the dogs, puppy carers,
that is wonderful because it gives you a insight into
what your dog was like as a puppy, and it
(27:23):
probably answers a lot of questions as to why your
dog does this or that or the other. And I
think that's a huge step forward. And not everybody, not
every client or every puppy carer wants to do that.
But at least nowadays the opportunity is there to do
that and that's really, really good.
S1 (27:41):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
and chatting with me today, Kate.
S2 (27:45):
That's all right, Harriet. It's been great.
S1 (27:52):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
Kate Watkins, talking about her story of being a seeing
eye dog handler for over 50 years. If you'd like
to find out more about seeing eye dogs, the work
we do, becoming a volunteer, or even a handler, head
to our website at. This was only part one of
(28:12):
our International Guide Dogs Day. Special International Guide Dogs Day
this year in 2025 is the 30th of April. So
next week we're going to be joined by Lester Schram,
Client Services Manager at Seeing Eye Dogs, who's going to
be talking about 65 years of our school and some
of the highlights throughout that time. So please tune in
same time next week for that episode. You can find
(28:33):
more episodes of this and other Great Vision Australia radio
shows on your preferred podcast provider or on the FM platform.
Thank you for listening and have a lovely week.
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