July 16, 2025 • 28 mins
On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, Harriet is joined by two guests.
We're joined by Puppy Development Trainer Abi Howes to talk about recall, how to train and effective recall and why it's so important. These are great tips which will help you train and maintain a recall which will keep you and your puppy or dog happy and safe.
Then we're going to play part of a repeat of an interview with Puppy Development Trainer Paige Don to chat free running with some great tips about keeping pups’ and dogs’ social time positive. You can listen to this interview in full: https://omny.fm/shows/seeing-eye-dogs-show/free-running-travelling-with-a-sed-and-advocacy-ti?in_playlist=training-tips
If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/
We are looking for puppy carers now so if you're keen to raise a puppy to hopefully become a Seeing Eye Dog we'd like to hear from you! It's an incredibly rewarding experience, with training provided. Carers need time, patience and love to give to a puppy, so if you want to commit to a year of puppy raising, we would love your help. We're looking for carers now in parts of Victoria, Queensland and New South Wales listed on our website. Get in touch to find out about volunteering with us or apply now via our website.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:19):
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
Dog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I'm
going to be joined by puppy development trainer Abby Howes,
who's going to be talking to us about recall. We're
going to be talking about the importance of recall, what
it means, and how to build and train an effective recall.
(00:40):
Then I'm going to play a part of a repeat
of an interview with Paige. Done. Puppy development trainer talking
about free running. We're going to be talking about how
to get the best out of free play with your
dog and how to have a fun, safe and happy
free run time. So without further ado, let's kick off
our Dog Training Tips episode with my interview with Abby
(01:00):
talking about recall.
S2 (01:09):
Hi Abby, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S3 (01:12):
Thanks for having me. How are you?
S2 (01:13):
Good. How are you?
S3 (01:15):
Good. Thanks.
S2 (01:16):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S3 (01:19):
Um, so I'm Abby, I am a puppy development trainer
here at Seeing Eye Dogs, and I work down in
the southeast.
S2 (01:26):
And so you are helping our puppies and some of our, well,
I guess slightly older puppies with a lot of the
kind of quite essential skills to get them ready for, um,
the next stage of their journey. What are some of
those important skills that you have to teach?
S3 (01:40):
Um, so we are looking to teach well socialized, well
mannered puppies, um, that are interested and able to learn, um,
and also really focusing on their basic skills to help
set them up for training. So things like our basic obedience,
our sit downs, our stands, our very nice patient waiting
(02:00):
while we drink a coffee at the coffee shop. Um,
but also really important things like recall. Um, so getting
those dogs to be able to very quickly, um, recall
back to you have a nice, um, behave to sit
so that you can reattach that lead. Um, but before
you head off, um, but also working on those recalls
around the house, if you're in another room and you're like,
(02:21):
what is my puppy up to? Getting that recall so
you can get them back to you. So you know
that they're not getting into too much mischief.
S2 (02:28):
So you've kind of covered a little bit, but why
is a recall so important?
S3 (02:33):
So recall is really important for not only, uh, responsiveness
to training. Um, so for example, once our dogs are
in a home, um, you might need to get their
attention away from something. You can use your recall for that. Um,
it is impulse control. So being able to hold a
position and then recall back to you teaches them some
impulse control and also safety. It's a really big safety feature.
(02:56):
So say for instance, you are, um, out and about
and for whatever reason, your dog gets away from you.
Having a really solid recall allows you to get that
dog back. Um, and for our clients, it allows them
to go and have those moments of fun with their dog,
but let them run around the backyard and know that
they're going to come back to them when they may
not have that visual aid of seeing exactly where they
(03:18):
are in the backyard.
S2 (03:20):
And I guess for any other pet dogs or seeing
eye dogs on their off duty time, a bit of, um,
you know, free running even in someone's backyard, you really
don't want your dog to be ignoring you. Um, when
they start to get a little bit overexcited or a
bit silly or something else is, um, interesting?
S3 (03:36):
Absolutely. Or if you're, you're letting them have a run
around the backyard and that, uh, Melbourne weather decides to
do a 180 flip, and it goes from beautiful sunshine
to pelting rain. Um, having a really solid recall is
helpful so that you don't have a dripping wet dog
wandering through your house after that beautiful play outside.
S2 (03:52):
I cannot see what could ever be wrong with that.
So how do you start training recall in a young puppy?
S3 (04:01):
So the first thing is to make sure you've got
a really solid bond with your puppy. Um, so starting
off by building your trust and game exercises and building
that positive relationship. So that can be as simple as
working on your marker word, finding those moments to mark
and reward. So puppy um, is really pairing you with
(04:22):
that reward. Um, it can be introducing tug games, so
not all dogs are going to find a food reward.
Obviously our dogs, um, are very food motivated in most instances,
but a lot of pet dogs may not be. Um,
so building games play, building lots of trust. Once we
have that interest and your value is kind of high,
(04:43):
we can then start to build that working away. So
to start with, that might not be very far at all. Um,
you might be sitting in the lounge room and puppy
wanders from the couch to the coffee table, and you're
going to recall them back, say their name, make a
big old fuss of them when they come back. That
distance may only be, you know, 200cm. Um, But they've
(05:09):
acknowledged you, they've come back and they've been rewarded. Then
we can start using it in sort of an increased distance.
And so then we might do things like walk a
little bit further away. Um, always try to get puppy's
attention so you can use their name and a recall word,
or you can use their name as a recall. Um,
but the most important thing is if you are doing that,
(05:31):
you get their attention. So that may look like be
come or insert dog's name here. Um, and then as
soon as they come back to you, we want to
make it fun and worthwhile for coming back. So that
may look like a treat. That may look like pats
and cuddles, if that's what your dog values that may
look like playing a little bit of tug with a
soft toy. Um, and then what you're gonna do is
(05:53):
let that dog go again. If coming back to you
means that all the fun doesn't end. They're going to
keep doing it. If every time you call them back
to you, you stop them doing whatever fun thing they
were doing, you're going to lose your value pretty quickly.
S2 (06:06):
It's suddenly the end of play. And not so fun.
S3 (06:09):
Not so fun. No, I don't want to listen to you.
I want to keep doing what I. Whatever cheeky thing
I was up to us. Then what we're going to
do is we're going to start adding an element of
lead or color, um, or a set. So you're going
to recall reward set. You might grab that color and
then give your reward before letting them off again. So
(06:31):
we're starting to introduce that element of like sometimes things
do end up. And then we're going to recall grab
the collar, attach the lead reward release the lead. Let
them go again. Um, once we have the element of
being able to put equipment on after a recall, we
can then venture outside to where the world is a
(06:52):
little bit more distracting. Um, and you're going to do
whatever distance your puppy has achieved. You're going to cut
it straight in half, because suddenly there are things that
are potentially more interesting than you. And about, um, so,
for instance, in my backyard every morning we have birds
and we have a cat who likes to come and visit.
So recall is a lot harder in my backyard than
(07:12):
it is in my house, because there's all these creature
friends that are far more interesting than I will ever be. Um,
so what we work on there is shorter distance recall
and reward until we get to the point where they
can be at the other side of the yard and
recall back to me, even if that cat is sitting
on the fence having a good old look at them
to decide if there's it's worth coming to say hello
(07:34):
because it's a pretty friendly cat.
S2 (07:37):
How do distractions in the environment impact your recall?
S3 (07:41):
So distractions in the environment can really impact your recall. Um,
the main thing being is that it's almost like those
blinkers go on and the dog, while they may hear
what you're saying, their focus is not on you. So
they're like, oh my gosh, there's that cat sitting on
the fence and I just am in love. They're gorgeous.
(08:01):
Look at that beautiful ginger coat. Um, so their ability
to focus on the direction that we're giving and it
is a direction we're asking them to recall back to
us is significantly reduced. We want it to almost become
muscle memory. I hear that recall word. I hear my
name and come and I just muscle memory run after them.
(08:23):
That is really hard for a lot of dogs. Um,
the other thing is, there's also a lot of other
senses that may be causing distraction. So it's not simply
that they can see a cat on a fence, right?
They can also getting new smells. They can smell all
of those smells that come along with that cat. So
that's two senses now that are focused in on that distraction. Um,
(08:44):
all you have is the one sense of hearing because
they're not looking at you and they're not smelling the
beautiful treats that you might have. What can be helpful then,
in those scenarios, if you know there are potentially going
to be distractions, is to take along a higher value reward.
So something that is better than the distractions. Um, so
for instance, in the scenario of a cat, you might go, okay,
(09:05):
my everyday kibble is not more valuable than the smells
and the sight of that beautiful, gorgeous cat sitting on
a fence. However, the smell of peanut butter might be,
and you're then going to engage those other senses and
be able to reward that, but also work on your distance.
So in that scenario where we have a higher level distraction,
(09:26):
we need to make it easier to set our dogs
up to get it right. So that may be things
like make some fun noises so that we're engaging. They're
hearing they're going to turn and look at us and go, oh,
what's going on? And then we can engage our recall. Um,
or we might get a bit closer to them before
we ask for that recall, so that we're only asking
(09:47):
them to quickly look away from that beautiful sight that
they've seen.
S2 (09:51):
And when it comes to, I guess, then moving forward
to potentially public spaces or, you know, I guess, I mean,
enclosed parks, Blocks that are safe. Um, and, you know,
potentially for anyone with pet dogs out here or even
someone else's backyard that's not as secure as their own
one that they're familiar with, you know what I mean?
(10:13):
How can you, you know, use even potentially things like
long lines or, um, maybe harnesses to safely to help
encourage recall.
S3 (10:21):
So long lines are a great option when you are
venturing out somewhere that is a bigger space that you've
worked with before, where your dog can potentially get further
away from you than perhaps you've been able to train before. Um,
and obviously having those, um, uses of things like harnesses
and where you're attaching them can be really useful to
make sure that that long line is less of a
(10:42):
tripping hazard for yourself and the dogs. Um, please be
aware of where it is in relation to your own
legs as much as in relation to your dogs. Um,
having those long lines allow you to put a boundary
on how far your dog can get from you. Um,
so those are really useful in scenarios where it's just yourself,
your dog, in a large space. Your dog might have
(11:04):
a tendency to get really dug into smells, um, or
you're just not comfortable with the amount of space they
have access to. There are some really great, very, very large,
fully fenced dog parts available in certain suburbs, um, that
are really interesting. There might be, um, a secret stash of, uh,
(11:25):
possum poop under a tree in one of those that
you are just not going to win. Um, so having
that long line attached means you can limit the distance
that the dog gets to from you, and you can
also use it as a tactile, uh, attention grabber so
you can give a little pulse. Hey, I'm still here.
As soon as I look at you, reward as they're
(11:45):
moving towards you, you're going to mark your yes and
add in your recall word and get that reward happening. Um, again,
because those things are more interesting potentially than us. Um,
when you're in a space where perhaps there are other dogs.
Definitely have a review of your training up to that point.
Has your dog shown any persistent interest in other dogs?
(12:09):
If you have a dog where you're walking down the
street and there's a dog on the other side of
the road and they are all feet in the air, excited, barking, lunging,
they are probably not ready to practice their recall in
an off leash area with other dogs. If your dog
is able to hold a sit while you have a
conversation with someone at a coffee shop who also has
a dog in a sit, and your dog is like, ah, yeah, whatever. Um,
(12:33):
then your dog is probably ready to engage in play
and recall away. Start off really, really simple, so don't
let that play escalate too much. Go for a walk
together first. Um, then head into that play area. Whether
it's your backyard, someone else's backyard, or an off leash area,
let those dogs off 1 or 2 minutes in. Immediately
start with the high value rewards. Then you're going to
(12:56):
let them go back and play, and then you're going
to start your recall. You're going to walk up to
the group of dogs, recall collar high value reward. Always
want to do those scenarios first with something higher value
and then work down back to your standard reward. Um,
so that the dog has a reason to look away.
Because for most of our dogs in this setup, it's
(13:16):
one of the first few times they're playing in this
kind of capacity with another dog. Um, and that is
pretty exciting.
S2 (13:24):
And I guess it's one of those things. Um, and
maybe you've said this to me when we've actually been
working together, as you don't want to start that recall
right in the middle of when they're obviously not going
to be listening to you like they're right in the
middle of that play. Um, you're just not really going
to win. Ah, you.
S3 (13:39):
Know, and we don't want to devalue that recall word.
So if, for instance, your dog is right in the
middle of a very important hello sniff session and those
fully involved and immersed in it, you're probably not going
to get a whole lot from them if you are
engaging with them in any way. But if you wait
for that moment where they've had that good old sniff
(14:00):
and they are about to transition, or they're, you know,
turning to look at something else, those are the really
great moments to grab their attention and then reward them
for acknowledging you. Now, for some dogs, that recall may
simply look like disengaging and looking at you and just
rewarding that. It may not be an immediate I have
sprinted over to you, but they will get there. You can.
(14:24):
If that is your end goal, work on valuing your
rewards based on the efforts. I am always an advocate
for anytime your dog returns to you if you've asked
them to, you always, always reward. However, you can scale it.
So for instance, if my dog is out at the
park and I recall him and he takes the long
(14:45):
route where he sniffs for trees before he gets back
to me, I'm still going to reward him, but he
may only get one bit of kibble. If he is
out there playing and I recall him and he comes
sprinting over to me. He's going to get some chicken
or he's going to get a little bit of peanut butter,
because that is the effort I want to see. I
want that immediate sprint. But in the first example, he
(15:09):
did still make the effort of coming back to me.
He didn't wander off somewhere else. He just took the
long route.
S2 (15:15):
And I mean, it's really interesting because you think about
like the kind of disengaging as, like finding that moment.
It's almost like a fixed tether type of thing, but like,
no tether and no fixing. It's just.
S3 (15:28):
Exactly. And those are the skills are going to set
you up for good recall. So having practiced your engage
disengage fixed tether work, having that skill to disengage from
something is what allows your dog the ability to look up, listen,
and recall to you. They don't have that foundational skill.
Your recall is going to be a lot harder. Um,
and practice at every occasion. If you are wandering around
(15:52):
the house and you get up and your dog stays
on their bed, and you don't have any reason that
they have to stay on that bed nice and settled.
Call them over. Give them a treat. Um, any of
those scenarios where you can just get in some idle
practice is really, really useful for those challenging sessions. Um,
(16:14):
a great example is that the parks that we often
use to freerun our dogs are the same parks that
when it's a beautiful summer day, people are having picnics in.
What that can mean is that there is some leftover
snacks that your dog might be like, oh, hello, that's
particularly interesting. So you want to make sure that whatever
you have trained your dog, there is that consistent value
add that is going to outweigh whatever that surprises.
S2 (16:39):
Awesome. Those are lots of interesting tips. And I think
you know a lot to think about for anyone, especially
if they are kind of wondering. Mm. I don't feel
like I have as much control over my dog as
I should. Is there anything else, um, that you know
that you think we might have missed about recall.
S3 (16:57):
Um, so you can also use a visual aid. Um,
so we didn't really talk about that. We did talk
about a tactile aid, like our long line and how
to build up that voice response. For some dogs, having
a visual aid is going to be a very, very
useful tool to help them along. Um, so, for instance,
if you have taught your dog a hand touch, you
(17:18):
can offer that hand out as somewhere for them to
visually target when recalling to you. Um, and a lot
of dogs, because that touch is such a simple and
rewarding training tool, they will use that to help with
their training. Um, but also the visual aid of, you know,
hands down, arms open, things like that can really help
(17:41):
your dog get the idea of what you're asking from them. Um,
and then if you choose to with a pet dog,
you can phase that out. Um, for our dogs, we
would really love them on a full verbal, but it's
a really useful stepping stone to get them there, because
they already have that foundation of skill, of wanting the
touch and the target.
S2 (18:00):
I guess even that people do that little like crouch
down type of thing, arms out, like come to me.
S3 (18:07):
It's very cute.
S2 (18:09):
And it kind of works.
S3 (18:10):
Mostly it's a great visual aid for a dog and
then you can build it up by you don't crouch
down so low, or you don't open your arms up
so much until you're at a full stand. But for
some dogs, having that visual aid is the difference between
a recall and a recall.
S2 (18:24):
And I guess especially when we're talking about, you know,
say safety, um, that recall is so important. So really,
I guess just having to make yourself that exciting is
worth worth doing anyway.
S3 (18:34):
Absolutely.
S2 (18:36):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
talking about recall.
S3 (18:40):
Thanks for having.
S4 (18:40):
Me.
S1 (18:46):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my tips with Abby.
If you'd like to find out more about seeing the
work we do or how you can help, head to
our website at australia.com. For more dog training tips, you
can head to our Omnifilm page or your preferred podcast
provider to listen to more episodes of The Seeing Eye
(19:08):
Dog Show. Now I'm going to be playing part of
a repeat of an episode with Paige John talking about
free running tips. So to find out how to get
the best of offline time with your dog, stay tuned!
I hope you enjoy!
S2 (19:21):
Hey Paige, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S5 (19:23):
Thanks for having me.
S2 (19:24):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S5 (19:26):
Hi, everyone. My name is Paige and I'm the Geelong
Puppy Development trainer.
S2 (19:32):
We're going to talk a little bit about free running.
What is free running and why is it so important?
S5 (19:37):
So free running is just when puppies get to play
together off leash and don't have to work. Usually it's
best to have it in a enclosed space so they
can be safe. It's really important. so then they get
time to be social. As we all know from going
through the pandemic, we all went a little bit stir
crazy being in our homes and being away from our
(19:58):
friends and family and not getting that time socially with
our favorite people. It yeah, didn't vouch well for anyone's
mental health. And it's the same for dogs. They're really
social creatures and they need that time when they're not
working like our seeing eye dogs do. So having that
time to just be a puppy and just get to
play with their best friends is really good for not
(20:21):
only their mental health, but also their fitness as well.
S2 (20:24):
I'm guessing if you don't have another dog at home too,
I mean free running is still. You can free run
with your dog as a person. Different. But um, but
I'm guessing there's still some value in in a dog
kind of doing their own running themselves.
S5 (20:38):
Yeah, definitely. And just getting time to be with their
own species. Um, so in terms of seeing eye dog training,
I think it's really important because if the puppies never
get to play with other pups or other dogs. Then
they become a bit like a jack in the box.
So whenever they see another dog, they get really overexcited
(20:58):
and just want to go and interact with them, which
interrupts their focus and interrupts their seeing eye dog training.
So if they get that time off lead to just
be a dog, then it really does help with their
focus when they're on lead in their jacket with their handler.
S2 (21:13):
I guess it's a little bit like the novelty of
it sometimes. You really can tell when a puppy has
never spent time with another dog before, because it's almost like, oh,
I don't get it, it's a friend, but I don't understand.
You can kind of see the cogs turning sometimes.
S5 (21:26):
Yeah, even just learning those social skills from when they're
really young and how to interact nicely with other dogs,
not to be rude in any kind of way. That's
something that's important for people to realize as well. Sometimes
you might put dogs together and they just don't get along,
and it might not necessarily mean aggression. Um, but one
dog might just not really be that into it. And
(21:49):
it's like people, you know, you might hang out with
people that you might think might be a friend or
you might go on dates with people that sound promising
and it just doesn't work. Like, please don't put the
dog in that situation again. If you notice they don't
get along with that dog or they're not comfortable. That's okay.
There might be other dogs that get along with better
that make them feel more comfortable. It wouldn't be nice
to hang out with someone who ignores you all the time,
(22:11):
or yells at you all the time, or gets up
in your space and doesn't listen when you tell them
to go away. And it's the same same for the dogs.
S2 (22:19):
Is there any other reason why it might be important
for dogs, especially younger puppies, to have that social time?
S5 (22:24):
Definitely. As I mentioned, just learning how to play nicely. Um,
in terms of being a seeing eye dog, when they
come back for formal training and they live at the
kennel facility for a minimum of four months. We like
to kennel them with a friend as well. If they
have never been around other dogs, it can be challenging
(22:44):
to match them with someone else, because usually those dogs
are extremely enthusiastic and the other dogs may not appreciate that.
And then they don't get a break because there's so
much novelty around having a dog in their space all
the time. So they try and make the most of
the party 24 over seven, rather than having any time
to rest. But if they know how to hang out
(23:05):
with another dog and they know how to switch off
when around another dog, um, that is really helpful for
the kennel staff to match the puppies together.
S2 (23:13):
So when you think about it too, even beyond that,
handlers might have other dogs at home, whether that's their
pet dogs or another retired dog, and potentially especially a
retired dog probably doesn't want the new young guide in
their face. Yeah.
S5 (23:29):
No. That's right. Once they've retired, they're in their golden
years and they're they're too old for that. They just
want to relax, maybe have a friend to chill out with,
maybe play some gentle tug with. But they don't want
to be wrestling generally, so.
S2 (23:43):
So what are some things to consider about public free
running places like dog beaches, parks and asking other puppies.
S5 (23:52):
With a seeing eye dog puppy as much as you
possibly can in closed spaces. So if you go to
a dog park or an enclosed oval. Um. Another alternative
could be like an enclosed tennis court or a netball court.
As long as you are very respectful of the people
who would play sport there. You know, obviously picking up
after your dog, not going when there's people actually training
(24:16):
for their sport or leaving a mess behind. Yeah. Please
be respectful there. And then in terms of beaches and things, yes,
I take my dogs to beaches, but I'm just very
careful with dog beaches and dog parks. When I turn up,
I like to go and assess the situation myself before
I put the dogs in that scenario. So I like
(24:38):
to watch the other dogs and see how they're interacting
with each other. You might find that there's a dog
that's maybe bullying the other dogs, or is a bit
too full on for the other dogs. So it's always
good to whether you do a few laps with the
seeing eye dog, or go and check it out yourself
before getting the dog out of the car is always
a good idea before putting the dog in that scenario
(24:59):
where they could end up in a bit of strife.
S2 (25:02):
So potentially as well you're looking at things like vaccinations too,
which you might not think about, or even with some
of our puppies being entire, slightly more complicated to. And
the other thing that I think about would be actually
the fact that sometimes our puppies are rude.
S5 (25:17):
Yes, our puppies are young. The puppies in our program,
they're usually under 12 months. They're very enthusiastic. They're learning
how to socialize. Just like our children need to learn
how to socialize and learn their manners and all those things,
learn how to share, etc. so please don't take your
puppy to any high volume dog areas before their 16
(25:37):
week vaccine, and it needs to be a week later
once it's marinated. They can go to those places. Please
don't take your puppy if it's unwell because we don't
want to spread anything like gastro or kennel cough to
to those high volume dog areas as well. And yes,
(25:57):
please be mindful if your puppy is not desexed, which
I know we delay desexing with a lot of our
pups for later in case we would like the dog
for breeding purposes. So just keep in mind that adolescent
males can attract attention from other males, as Harriet mentioned,
and it might not be wanted. Attention. And of course,
entire females may also attract attract attention that we certainly
(26:21):
do not want. So just just things to be really
mindful of.
S2 (26:25):
So what are some alternatives to dog parks or public
dog spaces like beaches?
S5 (26:31):
I actually really recommend to my carers to meet up
with friends or meet up with other carers and go
to someone's backyard. You can introduce the dogs out the
front on long leads to each other, so we can
make sure we're all friends before we go off lead
in that space. And then they can have a play,
just the two of them. And you don't need to
worry about unknown people, unknown dogs, whether the other owners
(26:55):
are going to be responsible for their dog, if their
dog is doing something that you would prefer, it wasn't.
So that's my preferred method. And then we can make
sure that we're only mixing boys and boys together and
girls and girls together just to take any of that
out of the equation. And I also encourage training walk beforehand.
So whether you go for a walk together side by
(27:15):
side and practice your dog distraction beforehand, maybe a 20
minute walk and then a 20 minute play in someone's backyard,
and that's more than enough, and they'll sleep the rest
of the afternoon.
S1 (27:31):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews and
my tips from Abby and Paige, our puppy development trainers.
If you would like to find more dog training tips
or more episodes of the show, you can head to
our Omni FM page or your preferred podcast platform for
more interviews, tips and stories from our community. If you'd
(27:54):
like to find out more about seeing Eye dogs, the
work we do, or how you can help, or even
becoming a handler, head to our website at australia.com. We
are looking for puppy carers now, and our puppy carers
get to work with amazing trainers who support them through
their journey. Wonderful! Abby and Paige are out there providing
these training tips and one on one support to our
(28:15):
puppy carers. Don't forget about our aging Seeing Eye Dog
workshop if you are a handler on July 19th. There's
more information about that on the Seeing Eye website at australia.com.
Thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show,
and don't forget to tune in Same time next week
for another episode.
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
Dog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I'm
going to be joined by puppy development trainer Abby Howes,
who's going to be talking to us about recall. We're
going to be talking about the importance of recall, what
it means, and how to build and train an effective recall.
(00:40):
Then I'm going to play a part of a repeat
of an interview with Paige. Done. Puppy development trainer talking
about free running. We're going to be talking about how
to get the best out of free play with your
dog and how to have a fun, safe and happy
free run time. So without further ado, let's kick off
our Dog Training Tips episode with my interview with Abby
(01:00):
talking about recall.
S2 (01:09):
Hi Abby, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S3 (01:12):
Thanks for having me. How are you?
S2 (01:13):
Good. How are you?
S3 (01:15):
Good. Thanks.
S2 (01:16):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S3 (01:19):
Um, so I'm Abby, I am a puppy development trainer
here at Seeing Eye Dogs, and I work down in
the southeast.
S2 (01:26):
And so you are helping our puppies and some of our, well,
I guess slightly older puppies with a lot of the
kind of quite essential skills to get them ready for, um,
the next stage of their journey. What are some of
those important skills that you have to teach?
S3 (01:40):
Um, so we are looking to teach well socialized, well
mannered puppies, um, that are interested and able to learn, um,
and also really focusing on their basic skills to help
set them up for training. So things like our basic obedience,
our sit downs, our stands, our very nice patient waiting
(02:00):
while we drink a coffee at the coffee shop. Um,
but also really important things like recall. Um, so getting
those dogs to be able to very quickly, um, recall
back to you have a nice, um, behave to sit
so that you can reattach that lead. Um, but before
you head off, um, but also working on those recalls
around the house, if you're in another room and you're like,
(02:21):
what is my puppy up to? Getting that recall so
you can get them back to you. So you know
that they're not getting into too much mischief.
S2 (02:28):
So you've kind of covered a little bit, but why
is a recall so important?
S3 (02:33):
So recall is really important for not only, uh, responsiveness
to training. Um, so for example, once our dogs are
in a home, um, you might need to get their
attention away from something. You can use your recall for that. Um,
it is impulse control. So being able to hold a
position and then recall back to you teaches them some
impulse control and also safety. It's a really big safety feature.
(02:56):
So say for instance, you are, um, out and about
and for whatever reason, your dog gets away from you.
Having a really solid recall allows you to get that
dog back. Um, and for our clients, it allows them
to go and have those moments of fun with their dog,
but let them run around the backyard and know that
they're going to come back to them when they may
not have that visual aid of seeing exactly where they
(03:18):
are in the backyard.
S2 (03:20):
And I guess for any other pet dogs or seeing
eye dogs on their off duty time, a bit of, um,
you know, free running even in someone's backyard, you really
don't want your dog to be ignoring you. Um, when
they start to get a little bit overexcited or a
bit silly or something else is, um, interesting?
S3 (03:36):
Absolutely. Or if you're, you're letting them have a run
around the backyard and that, uh, Melbourne weather decides to
do a 180 flip, and it goes from beautiful sunshine
to pelting rain. Um, having a really solid recall is
helpful so that you don't have a dripping wet dog
wandering through your house after that beautiful play outside.
S2 (03:52):
I cannot see what could ever be wrong with that.
So how do you start training recall in a young puppy?
S3 (04:01):
So the first thing is to make sure you've got
a really solid bond with your puppy. Um, so starting
off by building your trust and game exercises and building
that positive relationship. So that can be as simple as
working on your marker word, finding those moments to mark
and reward. So puppy um, is really pairing you with
(04:22):
that reward. Um, it can be introducing tug games, so
not all dogs are going to find a food reward.
Obviously our dogs, um, are very food motivated in most instances,
but a lot of pet dogs may not be. Um,
so building games play, building lots of trust. Once we
have that interest and your value is kind of high,
(04:43):
we can then start to build that working away. So
to start with, that might not be very far at all. Um,
you might be sitting in the lounge room and puppy
wanders from the couch to the coffee table, and you're
going to recall them back, say their name, make a
big old fuss of them when they come back. That
distance may only be, you know, 200cm. Um, But they've
(05:09):
acknowledged you, they've come back and they've been rewarded. Then
we can start using it in sort of an increased distance.
And so then we might do things like walk a
little bit further away. Um, always try to get puppy's
attention so you can use their name and a recall word,
or you can use their name as a recall. Um,
but the most important thing is if you are doing that,
(05:31):
you get their attention. So that may look like be
come or insert dog's name here. Um, and then as
soon as they come back to you, we want to
make it fun and worthwhile for coming back. So that
may look like a treat. That may look like pats
and cuddles, if that's what your dog values that may
look like playing a little bit of tug with a
soft toy. Um, and then what you're gonna do is
(05:53):
let that dog go again. If coming back to you
means that all the fun doesn't end. They're going to
keep doing it. If every time you call them back
to you, you stop them doing whatever fun thing they
were doing, you're going to lose your value pretty quickly.
S2 (06:06):
It's suddenly the end of play. And not so fun.
S3 (06:09):
Not so fun. No, I don't want to listen to you.
I want to keep doing what I. Whatever cheeky thing
I was up to us. Then what we're going to
do is we're going to start adding an element of
lead or color, um, or a set. So you're going
to recall reward set. You might grab that color and
then give your reward before letting them off again. So
(06:31):
we're starting to introduce that element of like sometimes things
do end up. And then we're going to recall grab
the collar, attach the lead reward release the lead. Let
them go again. Um, once we have the element of
being able to put equipment on after a recall, we
can then venture outside to where the world is a
(06:52):
little bit more distracting. Um, and you're going to do
whatever distance your puppy has achieved. You're going to cut
it straight in half, because suddenly there are things that
are potentially more interesting than you. And about, um, so,
for instance, in my backyard every morning we have birds
and we have a cat who likes to come and visit.
So recall is a lot harder in my backyard than
(07:12):
it is in my house, because there's all these creature
friends that are far more interesting than I will ever be. Um,
so what we work on there is shorter distance recall
and reward until we get to the point where they
can be at the other side of the yard and
recall back to me, even if that cat is sitting
on the fence having a good old look at them
to decide if there's it's worth coming to say hello
(07:34):
because it's a pretty friendly cat.
S2 (07:37):
How do distractions in the environment impact your recall?
S3 (07:41):
So distractions in the environment can really impact your recall. Um,
the main thing being is that it's almost like those
blinkers go on and the dog, while they may hear
what you're saying, their focus is not on you. So
they're like, oh my gosh, there's that cat sitting on
the fence and I just am in love. They're gorgeous.
(08:01):
Look at that beautiful ginger coat. Um, so their ability
to focus on the direction that we're giving and it
is a direction we're asking them to recall back to
us is significantly reduced. We want it to almost become
muscle memory. I hear that recall word. I hear my
name and come and I just muscle memory run after them.
(08:23):
That is really hard for a lot of dogs. Um,
the other thing is, there's also a lot of other
senses that may be causing distraction. So it's not simply
that they can see a cat on a fence, right?
They can also getting new smells. They can smell all
of those smells that come along with that cat. So
that's two senses now that are focused in on that distraction. Um,
(08:44):
all you have is the one sense of hearing because
they're not looking at you and they're not smelling the
beautiful treats that you might have. What can be helpful then,
in those scenarios, if you know there are potentially going
to be distractions, is to take along a higher value reward.
So something that is better than the distractions. Um, so
for instance, in the scenario of a cat, you might go, okay,
(09:05):
my everyday kibble is not more valuable than the smells
and the sight of that beautiful, gorgeous cat sitting on
a fence. However, the smell of peanut butter might be,
and you're then going to engage those other senses and
be able to reward that, but also work on your distance.
So in that scenario where we have a higher level distraction,
(09:26):
we need to make it easier to set our dogs
up to get it right. So that may be things
like make some fun noises so that we're engaging. They're
hearing they're going to turn and look at us and go, oh,
what's going on? And then we can engage our recall. Um,
or we might get a bit closer to them before
we ask for that recall, so that we're only asking
(09:47):
them to quickly look away from that beautiful sight that
they've seen.
S2 (09:51):
And when it comes to, I guess, then moving forward
to potentially public spaces or, you know, I guess, I mean,
enclosed parks, Blocks that are safe. Um, and, you know,
potentially for anyone with pet dogs out here or even
someone else's backyard that's not as secure as their own
one that they're familiar with, you know what I mean?
(10:13):
How can you, you know, use even potentially things like
long lines or, um, maybe harnesses to safely to help
encourage recall.
S3 (10:21):
So long lines are a great option when you are
venturing out somewhere that is a bigger space that you've
worked with before, where your dog can potentially get further
away from you than perhaps you've been able to train before. Um,
and obviously having those, um, uses of things like harnesses
and where you're attaching them can be really useful to
make sure that that long line is less of a
(10:42):
tripping hazard for yourself and the dogs. Um, please be
aware of where it is in relation to your own
legs as much as in relation to your dogs. Um,
having those long lines allow you to put a boundary
on how far your dog can get from you. Um,
so those are really useful in scenarios where it's just yourself,
your dog, in a large space. Your dog might have
(11:04):
a tendency to get really dug into smells, um, or
you're just not comfortable with the amount of space they
have access to. There are some really great, very, very large,
fully fenced dog parts available in certain suburbs, um, that
are really interesting. There might be, um, a secret stash of, uh,
(11:25):
possum poop under a tree in one of those that
you are just not going to win. Um, so having
that long line attached means you can limit the distance
that the dog gets to from you, and you can
also use it as a tactile, uh, attention grabber so
you can give a little pulse. Hey, I'm still here.
As soon as I look at you, reward as they're
(11:45):
moving towards you, you're going to mark your yes and
add in your recall word and get that reward happening. Um, again,
because those things are more interesting potentially than us. Um,
when you're in a space where perhaps there are other dogs.
Definitely have a review of your training up to that point.
Has your dog shown any persistent interest in other dogs?
(12:09):
If you have a dog where you're walking down the
street and there's a dog on the other side of
the road and they are all feet in the air, excited, barking, lunging,
they are probably not ready to practice their recall in
an off leash area with other dogs. If your dog
is able to hold a sit while you have a
conversation with someone at a coffee shop who also has
a dog in a sit, and your dog is like, ah, yeah, whatever. Um,
(12:33):
then your dog is probably ready to engage in play
and recall away. Start off really, really simple, so don't
let that play escalate too much. Go for a walk
together first. Um, then head into that play area. Whether
it's your backyard, someone else's backyard, or an off leash area,
let those dogs off 1 or 2 minutes in. Immediately
start with the high value rewards. Then you're going to
(12:56):
let them go back and play, and then you're going
to start your recall. You're going to walk up to
the group of dogs, recall collar high value reward. Always
want to do those scenarios first with something higher value
and then work down back to your standard reward. Um,
so that the dog has a reason to look away.
Because for most of our dogs in this setup, it's
(13:16):
one of the first few times they're playing in this
kind of capacity with another dog. Um, and that is
pretty exciting.
S2 (13:24):
And I guess it's one of those things. Um, and
maybe you've said this to me when we've actually been
working together, as you don't want to start that recall
right in the middle of when they're obviously not going
to be listening to you like they're right in the
middle of that play. Um, you're just not really going
to win. Ah, you.
S3 (13:39):
Know, and we don't want to devalue that recall word.
So if, for instance, your dog is right in the
middle of a very important hello sniff session and those
fully involved and immersed in it, you're probably not going
to get a whole lot from them if you are
engaging with them in any way. But if you wait
for that moment where they've had that good old sniff
(14:00):
and they are about to transition, or they're, you know,
turning to look at something else, those are the really
great moments to grab their attention and then reward them
for acknowledging you. Now, for some dogs, that recall may
simply look like disengaging and looking at you and just
rewarding that. It may not be an immediate I have
sprinted over to you, but they will get there. You can.
(14:24):
If that is your end goal, work on valuing your
rewards based on the efforts. I am always an advocate
for anytime your dog returns to you if you've asked
them to, you always, always reward. However, you can scale it.
So for instance, if my dog is out at the
park and I recall him and he takes the long
(14:45):
route where he sniffs for trees before he gets back
to me, I'm still going to reward him, but he
may only get one bit of kibble. If he is
out there playing and I recall him and he comes
sprinting over to me. He's going to get some chicken
or he's going to get a little bit of peanut butter,
because that is the effort I want to see. I
want that immediate sprint. But in the first example, he
(15:09):
did still make the effort of coming back to me.
He didn't wander off somewhere else. He just took the
long route.
S2 (15:15):
And I mean, it's really interesting because you think about
like the kind of disengaging as, like finding that moment.
It's almost like a fixed tether type of thing, but like,
no tether and no fixing. It's just.
S3 (15:28):
Exactly. And those are the skills are going to set
you up for good recall. So having practiced your engage
disengage fixed tether work, having that skill to disengage from
something is what allows your dog the ability to look up, listen,
and recall to you. They don't have that foundational skill.
Your recall is going to be a lot harder. Um,
and practice at every occasion. If you are wandering around
(15:52):
the house and you get up and your dog stays
on their bed, and you don't have any reason that
they have to stay on that bed nice and settled.
Call them over. Give them a treat. Um, any of
those scenarios where you can just get in some idle
practice is really, really useful for those challenging sessions. Um,
(16:14):
a great example is that the parks that we often
use to freerun our dogs are the same parks that
when it's a beautiful summer day, people are having picnics in.
What that can mean is that there is some leftover
snacks that your dog might be like, oh, hello, that's
particularly interesting. So you want to make sure that whatever
you have trained your dog, there is that consistent value
add that is going to outweigh whatever that surprises.
S2 (16:39):
Awesome. Those are lots of interesting tips. And I think
you know a lot to think about for anyone, especially
if they are kind of wondering. Mm. I don't feel
like I have as much control over my dog as
I should. Is there anything else, um, that you know
that you think we might have missed about recall.
S3 (16:57):
Um, so you can also use a visual aid. Um,
so we didn't really talk about that. We did talk
about a tactile aid, like our long line and how
to build up that voice response. For some dogs, having
a visual aid is going to be a very, very
useful tool to help them along. Um, so, for instance,
if you have taught your dog a hand touch, you
(17:18):
can offer that hand out as somewhere for them to
visually target when recalling to you. Um, and a lot
of dogs, because that touch is such a simple and
rewarding training tool, they will use that to help with
their training. Um, but also the visual aid of, you know,
hands down, arms open, things like that can really help
(17:41):
your dog get the idea of what you're asking from them. Um,
and then if you choose to with a pet dog,
you can phase that out. Um, for our dogs, we
would really love them on a full verbal, but it's
a really useful stepping stone to get them there, because
they already have that foundation of skill, of wanting the
touch and the target.
S2 (18:00):
I guess even that people do that little like crouch
down type of thing, arms out, like come to me.
S3 (18:07):
It's very cute.
S2 (18:09):
And it kind of works.
S3 (18:10):
Mostly it's a great visual aid for a dog and
then you can build it up by you don't crouch
down so low, or you don't open your arms up
so much until you're at a full stand. But for
some dogs, having that visual aid is the difference between
a recall and a recall.
S2 (18:24):
And I guess especially when we're talking about, you know,
say safety, um, that recall is so important. So really,
I guess just having to make yourself that exciting is
worth worth doing anyway.
S3 (18:34):
Absolutely.
S2 (18:36):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
talking about recall.
S3 (18:40):
Thanks for having.
S4 (18:40):
Me.
S1 (18:46):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my tips with Abby.
If you'd like to find out more about seeing the
work we do or how you can help, head to
our website at australia.com. For more dog training tips, you
can head to our Omnifilm page or your preferred podcast
provider to listen to more episodes of The Seeing Eye
(19:08):
Dog Show. Now I'm going to be playing part of
a repeat of an episode with Paige John talking about
free running tips. So to find out how to get
the best of offline time with your dog, stay tuned!
I hope you enjoy!
S2 (19:21):
Hey Paige, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S5 (19:23):
Thanks for having me.
S2 (19:24):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S5 (19:26):
Hi, everyone. My name is Paige and I'm the Geelong
Puppy Development trainer.
S2 (19:32):
We're going to talk a little bit about free running.
What is free running and why is it so important?
S5 (19:37):
So free running is just when puppies get to play
together off leash and don't have to work. Usually it's
best to have it in a enclosed space so they
can be safe. It's really important. so then they get
time to be social. As we all know from going
through the pandemic, we all went a little bit stir
crazy being in our homes and being away from our
(19:58):
friends and family and not getting that time socially with
our favorite people. It yeah, didn't vouch well for anyone's
mental health. And it's the same for dogs. They're really
social creatures and they need that time when they're not
working like our seeing eye dogs do. So having that
time to just be a puppy and just get to
play with their best friends is really good for not
(20:21):
only their mental health, but also their fitness as well.
S2 (20:24):
I'm guessing if you don't have another dog at home too,
I mean free running is still. You can free run
with your dog as a person. Different. But um, but
I'm guessing there's still some value in in a dog
kind of doing their own running themselves.
S5 (20:38):
Yeah, definitely. And just getting time to be with their
own species. Um, so in terms of seeing eye dog training,
I think it's really important because if the puppies never
get to play with other pups or other dogs. Then
they become a bit like a jack in the box.
So whenever they see another dog, they get really overexcited
(20:58):
and just want to go and interact with them, which
interrupts their focus and interrupts their seeing eye dog training.
So if they get that time off lead to just
be a dog, then it really does help with their
focus when they're on lead in their jacket with their handler.
S2 (21:13):
I guess it's a little bit like the novelty of
it sometimes. You really can tell when a puppy has
never spent time with another dog before, because it's almost like, oh,
I don't get it, it's a friend, but I don't understand.
You can kind of see the cogs turning sometimes.
S5 (21:26):
Yeah, even just learning those social skills from when they're
really young and how to interact nicely with other dogs,
not to be rude in any kind of way. That's
something that's important for people to realize as well. Sometimes
you might put dogs together and they just don't get along,
and it might not necessarily mean aggression. Um, but one
dog might just not really be that into it. And
(21:49):
it's like people, you know, you might hang out with
people that you might think might be a friend or
you might go on dates with people that sound promising
and it just doesn't work. Like, please don't put the
dog in that situation again. If you notice they don't
get along with that dog or they're not comfortable. That's okay.
There might be other dogs that get along with better
that make them feel more comfortable. It wouldn't be nice
to hang out with someone who ignores you all the time,
(22:11):
or yells at you all the time, or gets up
in your space and doesn't listen when you tell them
to go away. And it's the same same for the dogs.
S2 (22:19):
Is there any other reason why it might be important
for dogs, especially younger puppies, to have that social time?
S5 (22:24):
Definitely. As I mentioned, just learning how to play nicely. Um,
in terms of being a seeing eye dog, when they
come back for formal training and they live at the
kennel facility for a minimum of four months. We like
to kennel them with a friend as well. If they
have never been around other dogs, it can be challenging
(22:44):
to match them with someone else, because usually those dogs
are extremely enthusiastic and the other dogs may not appreciate that.
And then they don't get a break because there's so
much novelty around having a dog in their space all
the time. So they try and make the most of
the party 24 over seven, rather than having any time
to rest. But if they know how to hang out
(23:05):
with another dog and they know how to switch off
when around another dog, um, that is really helpful for
the kennel staff to match the puppies together.
S2 (23:13):
So when you think about it too, even beyond that,
handlers might have other dogs at home, whether that's their
pet dogs or another retired dog, and potentially especially a
retired dog probably doesn't want the new young guide in
their face. Yeah.
S5 (23:29):
No. That's right. Once they've retired, they're in their golden
years and they're they're too old for that. They just
want to relax, maybe have a friend to chill out with,
maybe play some gentle tug with. But they don't want
to be wrestling generally, so.
S2 (23:43):
So what are some things to consider about public free
running places like dog beaches, parks and asking other puppies.
S5 (23:52):
With a seeing eye dog puppy as much as you
possibly can in closed spaces. So if you go to
a dog park or an enclosed oval. Um. Another alternative
could be like an enclosed tennis court or a netball court.
As long as you are very respectful of the people
who would play sport there. You know, obviously picking up
after your dog, not going when there's people actually training
(24:16):
for their sport or leaving a mess behind. Yeah. Please
be respectful there. And then in terms of beaches and things, yes,
I take my dogs to beaches, but I'm just very
careful with dog beaches and dog parks. When I turn up,
I like to go and assess the situation myself before
I put the dogs in that scenario. So I like
(24:38):
to watch the other dogs and see how they're interacting
with each other. You might find that there's a dog
that's maybe bullying the other dogs, or is a bit
too full on for the other dogs. So it's always
good to whether you do a few laps with the
seeing eye dog, or go and check it out yourself
before getting the dog out of the car is always
a good idea before putting the dog in that scenario
(24:59):
where they could end up in a bit of strife.
S2 (25:02):
So potentially as well you're looking at things like vaccinations too,
which you might not think about, or even with some
of our puppies being entire, slightly more complicated to. And
the other thing that I think about would be actually
the fact that sometimes our puppies are rude.
S5 (25:17):
Yes, our puppies are young. The puppies in our program,
they're usually under 12 months. They're very enthusiastic. They're learning
how to socialize. Just like our children need to learn
how to socialize and learn their manners and all those things,
learn how to share, etc. so please don't take your
puppy to any high volume dog areas before their 16
(25:37):
week vaccine, and it needs to be a week later
once it's marinated. They can go to those places. Please
don't take your puppy if it's unwell because we don't
want to spread anything like gastro or kennel cough to
to those high volume dog areas as well. And yes,
(25:57):
please be mindful if your puppy is not desexed, which
I know we delay desexing with a lot of our
pups for later in case we would like the dog
for breeding purposes. So just keep in mind that adolescent
males can attract attention from other males, as Harriet mentioned,
and it might not be wanted. Attention. And of course,
entire females may also attract attract attention that we certainly
(26:21):
do not want. So just just things to be really
mindful of.
S2 (26:25):
So what are some alternatives to dog parks or public
dog spaces like beaches?
S5 (26:31):
I actually really recommend to my carers to meet up
with friends or meet up with other carers and go
to someone's backyard. You can introduce the dogs out the
front on long leads to each other, so we can
make sure we're all friends before we go off lead
in that space. And then they can have a play,
just the two of them. And you don't need to
worry about unknown people, unknown dogs, whether the other owners
(26:55):
are going to be responsible for their dog, if their
dog is doing something that you would prefer, it wasn't.
So that's my preferred method. And then we can make
sure that we're only mixing boys and boys together and
girls and girls together just to take any of that
out of the equation. And I also encourage training walk beforehand.
So whether you go for a walk together side by
(27:15):
side and practice your dog distraction beforehand, maybe a 20
minute walk and then a 20 minute play in someone's backyard,
and that's more than enough, and they'll sleep the rest
of the afternoon.
S1 (27:31):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews and
my tips from Abby and Paige, our puppy development trainers.
If you would like to find more dog training tips
or more episodes of the show, you can head to
our Omni FM page or your preferred podcast platform for
more interviews, tips and stories from our community. If you'd
(27:54):
like to find out more about seeing Eye dogs, the
work we do, or how you can help, or even
becoming a handler, head to our website at australia.com. We
are looking for puppy carers now, and our puppy carers
get to work with amazing trainers who support them through
their journey. Wonderful! Abby and Paige are out there providing
these training tips and one on one support to our
(28:15):
puppy carers. Don't forget about our aging Seeing Eye Dog
workshop if you are a handler on July 19th. There's
more information about that on the Seeing Eye website at australia.com.
Thank you for listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show,
and don't forget to tune in Same time next week
for another episode.
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