The Training of Seeing Eye Dogs: Behind the Scenes with Kylie

On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, Harriet is joined by training program manager and qualified GDMI Kylie Gersh who gives us a behind the scenes into how the training team turns 12-15 month old puppies into fully trained Seeing Eye Dogs. Kylie talks us through the process of how they teach guiding skills and how dogs are prepared for their lives working with their handlers.

To learn how dogs are chosen to begin training, listen to this interview with Kylie about the In For Training assessments: https://omny.fm/shows/seeing-eye-dogs-show/selecting-suitable-seeing-eye-dog-candidates-with

If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:19):
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
Dog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I'm
joined by training program manager Kylie Gersh, who's going to
be talking to us about the behind the scenes of
our training program. We're going to be talking about how
we go from our 12 to 15 month old puppies
into fully trained seeing eye dogs in about six months.

(00:42):
So it's a pretty quick process. So we're going to
be talking about how they build and learn the skills
that help them be successful seeing eye dogs. If you'd
like to find out about the process before that, which
is assessing them for the role that is available on
our Omni FM platform or your preferred podcast provider. Without
further ado, here is Kylie Gersh, our training manager, talking

(01:03):
about how the training team and instructors work with the
puppies and dogs to teach them how to guide. Hi, Kelly,
thanks for joining me on the show today.

S2 (01:19):
Hi, Harriet. How are you doing? Good.

S1 (01:20):
How are you?

S2 (01:21):
Good.

S1 (01:22):
So could you please start off by introducing yourself?

S2 (01:25):
Yes I can. My name is Kylie Gersh, and I'm
the training program manager here at Seeing Eye Dogs. And
I support the team of trainers and instructors that train
the dogs from around 12 to 15 months during their
formal training. Sometimes the dogs can be slightly older when
they come into training. Occasionally we have dogs that may
have been selected into the breeding program, and for whatever reason,

(01:46):
they might be returned to us in training. So sometimes
those dogs may be 2 to 3 years old when
they enter training. Some of my team also are instructors
who place the dogs with clients and train the clients
with their dogs.

S1 (01:58):
So what are the kind of expectations or even some
of the traits that you might see of a dog
that passes those IFT assessments? So, you know, when they
come in at that stage, you know. What makes a
good candidate?

S2 (02:08):
Yeah, we're looking for a dog. Um, when we do
those IFT assessments, um, through different environments. We're looking for
a dog that's able to confidently move through the environments
or able to bounce back. So if there is something
that they encounter that they might be concerned about, um,
that they either seek support from their handler or they're

(02:28):
able to, um, get back on track or back onto
focus really quickly. So it's natural that a dog, for example,
will look at other dogs or hear a noise and look,
but it's how they, I guess we would call it recovery.
How do they, um, bounce back from that and continue on?
So some of the things we'd be looking at is
how interested are they in other things in the environment,

(02:51):
like dogs or smells? Um, are we able to regain
their focus and how easily or difficult that might be?
So that's a really big thing, um, how confidently they
get on and off public transport, because we know that's
really important for our handlers. For most handlers use public transport. Um,
how do they go settling beside their handler or beside somebody.

(03:13):
How do they go? Wearing their full equipment. So their
full harness we introduced to them. Um, how do they
go over different walking over different surfaces and through different
environments that we know are really important for our handlers
who use those environments daily. We can also be looking
at how resilient we feel the dog is to changes.
So they are they do go through a number of

(03:35):
different changes. So they will be coming potentially in Victoria.
They come into kennels. How do they respond to different
people and handlers. Um, and then they again placed hopefully
if everything goes well and they're successful in training, then
they're placed with their handlers. So we want to make
sure that the dog is comfortable and able to, um,

(03:56):
manage those transitions and changes, because we know that, um,
during their life, they will have a number of different changes.

S1 (04:03):
When you've got that dog and you've identified, you know,
you think this one's worth, um, putting, you know, putting
through training or they're going to enjoy it or, you know,
whatever it is that makes them kind of a good candidate.
How do you start kind of introducing the dog to
some of those basic training concepts?

S2 (04:19):
So we do try to get to know the dog
and build a relationship. So we know for a lot
of dogs relationships are really important with their their primary
handler is what we call that. So that would have
been their carer. And now if when they enter training
it would be their trainer or instructor. And then we
transfer that through to the handler when the instructor is
working with them. So during that stages we would be

(04:41):
getting to know what they like, what things that they
find challenging. Um, and for most of us, that's what
we'd be doing. We'd be seeing what food reinforcements is
most meaningful for them, what kind of patterns and where
do they like being patted? Some of them, like, you know,
scratch under the chin and other ones like, you know,
with tail scratch. And so we're just really finding out

(05:01):
what motivates that dog during that time, too. We'd be
looking at some of the really basic or Foundation training.
Some people might know it as obedience, but we'd be
we'd be starting to teach them some real foundation of
just building on some of those skills that they will
have learned during puppy caring, such as sit and down.

(05:21):
But we're starting to increase our expectations on that for
them to be able to stay in position. Um, so
during the first two weeks, we try to do that
in a really controlled environment, usually in an indoor area
where we've already introduced them. So they're familiar with the
environment and that there's not too many distractions ideally going on.
So in Victoria or Melbourne we use our lovely indoor

(05:45):
mobility training centre to do that. And the guys interstate
who are training dogs generally find somewhere quiet that they
would be able to do something similar where they're learning
to establish a relationship or connection with the dog. Um,
and then starting those really early fundamental behaviour responses, um,
because we utilize them all the time. So sit standing

(06:07):
or stopping in one position. Laying down to settle. Staying
in one position. Going on their bed. Um. Coming back
to their handler. So what we call recall, they're all
the really the skills that we're starting in those first
kind of week.

S1 (06:25):
So I was going to ask you kind of what
the standard sequence of training is as an overview. And
also in addition to that, how long does training go for?

S2 (06:33):
Great questions. Our average training program is 20 weeks. So
that includes in for training assessment week. So I guess
you could look at that 19 weeks with in in
actual training. Yeah it sounds like a long time but
it it goes really quickly.

S1 (06:48):
I was thinking that sounds like a short.

S2 (06:50):
Yeah. Okay. Um, look, they've their socialization and the skills
that the carers teach the puppies really allows us to
kind of get going with the formal skills. There is
a lot of skills that they need to learn and develop, um,
during that time. There's That's five days a week. Generally
that most of the dogs will be training, usually two

(07:10):
sessions a day. So that may look like two walks
out in the environment later on. Or it might look
like a session in the indoor mobility center. It's usually
it's at least one walk a day. And then it
might be that we're doing a session on recall, or
it might be we're doing a settling session in the afternoon,
for example. So yeah, there's there's a lot that goes
into it. As you said, I thought you were going

(07:32):
to say a long time, but it's um, it is
a relatively short time. The trainers certainly feel that. So
I mentioned around the first kind of week what we'd
be looking, looking at in their obedience. Then we start
teaching them the Guide work foundation. So that will be, um,
teaching them. I mentioned collar cueing a little bit of
color pressure. So we use that to be able to

(07:54):
teach them how to stop at curbs. We do a
lot of platform work. And what does that mean. But
basically it's just a raised wooden platform that we teach
the dogs to be able to stand on, sit on,
or lie down on. And it really is beneficial because
we can then take that, for example, pop that platform
on a curb. And if the dogs have known how

(08:16):
to lead the person or guide the person to that platform,
they love it because they've had lots of food on it,
that we can use that to actually to teach them
how to stop it curves. So a lot of our
instructors and trainers love platforms because it's a really positive
way to be able to introduce to them and then
take that platform to other areas and be able to
teach them how to generalize that skill in different areas.

(08:40):
And it's a way we can also positively introduce new skills.
So we use clicker. And in our puppy development area,
they use what we call a marker or word to
let the dog know that they've done that right behavior
and that food is coming. Um, they usually use the marker. Yes. Um,
and in training, sometimes we'll use. Yes, because they've already

(09:02):
the dogs know that. But other times we'll use what
we call a clicker, which is a tiny little box
for those that don't know it, that makes a clicking noise.
And when the dogs hear that, they know that food
is coming. Interesting story. We had one of our handlers
the other day that came into the Indoor Mobility Center,
and they were doing a tour, and some of our

(09:23):
trainers were using the clicker, and their graduated dog was
so happy to hear the clicker. They stood there beautifully
and was very well behaved, but the dog was looking
and was like they remembered for me, that clicker. Yeah, exactly.
Clicked for me. And then she, the dog was gorgeous.
She was kind of trying to offer different behaviors. So
she was kind of trying to scooch her bottom in

(09:45):
to go close to the handle and was like, is this,
this is gonna this is going to get me some food,
isn't it?

S1 (09:50):
The noise again and then a treat.

S2 (09:51):
Yes, exactly. So it's lovely that they remember that. I
guess that was just more to say how we introduced
things in that first seven, eight weeks. We're really working
hard in residential areas to teach them how to walk
in the center of the footpath, to try to ideally
walk past distractions, people, birds, dogs and be able to

(10:15):
guide their person. So one of the main skills we
teach when we get onto the street is actually how
to guide in the guiding position and basically pull that
person out in front. So they their position is usually
three quarters in front of the person. So the trainer
or instructor will be walking basically at their back legs.

(10:35):
And we really want that dog to be confident and
out in front. So without that skill, we actually don't
have a seeing eye dog. So that's something that's really important.
And yeah, like I mentioned stopping at curbs responding to
cues from the handler such as left and right. So
teaching them directions and teaching them forward which is the

(10:55):
cue to move and then stop, which means that whatever
you're doing, you need to stop and stand still. So
there's a lot of skills that's learned in those. As
I mentioned, 7 or 8 weeks, we do that over
at least 3 or 4 different environments because that's what's
required for the dog to understand or what we call generalize,
which is understand that they need to do the behavior.
Again when they see a curb. Curb always means I

(11:18):
need to stop. So what happens at that eight weeks
is that we do our first blindfold assessment, where our
trainer instructor is puts a blindfold on where they're not
able to see anything, and they go for a walk
in a set area that the trainer or instructor knows.
And they have an assessor which myself or some of
my colleagues can do, who are following to make sure

(11:39):
that the trainer instructor is safe. And we're looking at
how the dog is picking up those skills. So sometimes
during those assessments, we can figure out that actually the
dog may not be doing very well in certain areas,
or they might be doing super well in in other areas.
So sometimes that could be a decision point on whether
we continue progressing depending on how they're doing or whether

(12:01):
maybe they just need a little bit more time. So
for some of our carers who get to get our updates,
we might actually say to them they haven't quite got
there yet, but we're.

S1 (12:10):
Keep.

S2 (12:10):
Going, keep going. We're going to give them another 1
or 2 weeks because we think we're just going to
work on a few areas.

S1 (12:16):
And what might you pick up under blindfold that the
trainer might not pick up generally?

S2 (12:22):
Yeah, it's hard, I think, to know sometimes how much
our body movement or how much we're pre-empting things. So
I think probably the most thing I see is how
much the person's keeping their own line or walking with
sight when somebody's under blindfold. It might mean that usually
they move differently. So we learn, actually the dog's reading

(12:45):
the cue and movement from the handler. Or actually, do
they understand that they need to stay in the middle
of the footpath and be able to support that person?
So sometimes what we might see is actually maybe the
dogs start walking really left of this, the center of
the footpath. Or we might see that they might be walking. Really? Right.
Or maybe they do overstep a number of curves. And

(13:06):
we know actually maybe the handler was subtly prompting or
trainer was subtly prompting them without even realizing which we
all do it, particularly when we're learning as, um, trainers
or instructors. And so it gives us information, maybe how
much support we're giving them and how the dogs tracking
or progressing.

S1 (13:24):
I can say it's really hard if you think about
how much you actually do in your body just when
you're walking around the street, like even if you know
when you see a dog, you notice, you start like
thinking about how the dog's going to react. It's like,
obviously the dog is going to be thinking, I something's
going on here. Like, clearly, I assume you do the
same with curbs then.

S2 (13:40):
Yes, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Distraction is probably one of the
hardest things for those early, um, blindfold assessments. And you'll
start to realize maybe there has been cueing, to which
we all do naturally, is we might just call their name,
or suddenly they might check in with us and they
use that check in. We might feed them, but when
they can check in and they have no eye contact
with the handler and they don't get that immediate food,

(14:02):
then sometimes they go, oh, okay, well, maybe I can
go and say hello to that dog. Yeah.

S1 (14:09):
So from that point when you've completed that seven, eight
weeks of training, how does the dog start kind of learning?
I guess more responsibility or like how does the training
kind of intensify as you go through and start doing more?

S2 (14:22):
Yeah, two ways is that I mentioned about the trainer
will realize how much they're prompting or cuing the dog.
So once we get to that stage, we'd be starting
to reduce the amount of prompts. So we'd be reducing
our body movements to be more like a handler was
is able to give, or a verbal input would be
more similar. So in that weeks between eight weeks and

(14:44):
when their next blindfold assessment is, which is 11 weeks,
we would be doing that reducing, I guess, the level
of support that we'd be providing. We'd also be taking
them to new environments. So we start doing traffic training,
and that's a whole podcast and or discussion in itself.
It also we'd be looking at busier environments, so we

(15:05):
start taking them from residential areas more into small shopping,
just supermarket shopping areas. We'd be looking at them getting
on and off escalators and travelators. We'd be looking at
semi semi, what we call semi busy areas, which is
just like any shopping strips, for example, where it's a
little bit busier with people, a little bit busier with
dogs sometimes, and the environments are starting to get a

(15:28):
little bit more challenging in the fact that now they're
not only having to stay in the middle of the footpath,
concentrate on curbs, ignoring distractions, but also they're now starting
to develop the skill of what we call obstacle avoidance,
which means that they're needing to move and recognise that
people rubbish bins, chairs, there are obstacles that could potentially

(15:50):
harm the person, and that they need to do certain
behaviours to be able to keep that person safe. So
sometimes that might be stopping if it's the footpath completely blocked.
Other times it might be moving around to the left
or the right to avoid that person bumping into something.
So that can be a really challenging skill for a
dog to start to learn, because you think about people

(16:11):
are so unpredictable when they're walking. Sometimes if they're talking
on their phone. Also different handlers are a different height.
So height obstacles is one of the hardest things for
dogs to pick up because it's so far above a
dog's head. We have to actually teach them how to
be able to scan up to to notice some of
those things.

S1 (16:30):
And do they do that between 8 and 11 weeks? Yes.

S2 (16:34):
They'll start doing introduction to some of those more complex.
We wouldn't be expecting final behavior that we'd be expecting
at the end of training, but we'd be starting even
earlier than that. We actually start teaching obstacle avoidance, but
we'd be more looking at the busier doing that in
busy environments where it's more challenging because obstacles come move
a lot more and there's a lot more of them.

(16:56):
So they'd have to do a lot more work than
what I guess work. But I say work. But they
actually really, most of the dogs really love it because
it's a skill that we also do a clicker and
reward for. So sometimes you can see the dogs looking
back at their, their trainer and going, oh, there's a person,
I'm going to move around that. And you know, that's
a good thing isn't it? Yeah. And checking back with
their handler. So some dogs actually love doing the weaving

(17:17):
in and out. And you know really moving forward and
guiding the person.

S1 (17:21):
Is there anything kind of additional that you do between
that like 11 weeks and then either 16 or even
like the 19 weeks?

S2 (17:29):
Yeah. So at 11 weeks, we're doing a blindfold assessment
in a more complex environment that we'd been working towards. Also,
around that time, we'd be looking at client matches if
the dogs can progressing really well, that's just over halfway
through training. So we'd be starting to try to understand
what dogs what strength that dogs has, um, and be

(17:49):
writing up their matching profiles so we know what clients
that we'd be looking on, who are waiting for our
lovely dogs and seeing maybe just preliminary looking at their
paces of the clients on the waiting list, their lifestyle
and preferences, and seeing whether any of the dogs coming
through we feel like would be a really good fit
for that person. And then in 11 and 16 week,

(18:11):
we're getting into more complex environments. So we're continuing to
develop the dogs skills into working in busier environments, big
shopping centres, lots on and off all forms of public
transport into the city environments. We don't always go every day,
I should say. Sometimes we do residential as well. We
kind of change it up for the dogs, and some

(18:31):
dogs may not be quite ready for that level of change,
and we might actually spend some more time. Sometimes we
do walks that are exactly the same, and some dogs
like that, and some handlers have that type of work
for the dog as well. At our 16 weeks, that's
our final blindfold assessment, where we're basically assessing whether the
dog is competent to be able to be placed with

(18:51):
a handler. And again, myself or a few of my
colleagues as senior colleagues in the training team would be
assessing those dogs. I should say not all dogs necessarily
fly through those, particularly the initial assessments straight off. Doesn't
mean they don't make it into a wonderful seeing eye
dog later on. It just might mean that they are
different learners and that they need a little bit more time.

(19:12):
But usually by the 16 weeks mark, most of the
dogs would be doing really well. And then you ask
the question as well about what would we be doing
differently in the 16 to that 19 week week mark?
By that stage, we'd be have a really good idea
at 16 weeks who that that dog is going to
be matched to. We usually once they've passed that I

(19:33):
guess you could say final test or final assessment, we
would be most often calling the client and presenting the
dog to them and the dogs, you know, maybe some
considerations and also the dogs strengths. And if that client
accepted that match and we're looking at when training start
dates are we'd be then tailoring that dog's training to
that individual person. So we'd be looking at, for example,

(19:56):
do they go on public transport and they're in the
CBD every day. Then we would be doing that every day.
If they go to the gym every day, or they
are live in the country and don't actually have footpaths
and need to be walking the dog on grass verges
all the time, then we do a lot of work
to make sure that it's a smooth transition, not only

(20:17):
for the handler. So the dog has skills in the
areas that are really important that they do day to day,
but also that the dog experiences a smooth transition so
that we're actually upskilling them into what their life is,
I guess shaping them into what their life is going
to be like. And so when they're then placed with
the handler, they're kind of like, oh yeah, I've done
this before. I've seen this. Yeah, yeah, I can do this.

(20:39):
So ideally what we want is a dog to be
even though swapping handlers, obviously they're meeting a new person
and developing a new relationship. But if we've done our
work and building that dog's skills in the clients areas.
We hope that then that dog actually goes, ah, you know,
it's it's yeah, yeah, I've got it. And then on
the flip side, hopefully then the handler has good experience

(21:02):
during training and their dog is actually able to be
performing really well very quickly for them and that they
do well in the transition. It's important for us in
the training team. I think that dogs do well and
are feeling confident and happy, but we're also there to
support them. So the instructors who work with those teams
are there to support the dog and the and the

(21:24):
person to get to know each other and transition to
their new life together.

S1 (21:29):
And I guess that in itself, that, again, is another
whole podcast topic.

S2 (21:33):
That's a whole yeah, we could talk for, for ages
about that as well. Harriet.

S1 (21:37):
Yeah, I mean, it's crazy to me. It really isn't
a very long time when you think about the amount
of responsibility that they're going to take on, if you
then think about like how, like the lifespan of a dog,
everything is. What's the word like? Sped up a bit
like it's it's a lot shorter than like, you know,
dog adolescence is a lot shorter than, like human adolescence
and gestation is shorter. Yeah. And when they become an

(21:57):
adult is shorter. Like you couldn't send a two year
old into, like, university and, um. Exactly. Yeah. So I
guess 20 weeks, you know, if you put it in
that perspective, is maybe a bit shorter, but, um.

S2 (22:08):
Yeah, it's a short uni program compared.

S1 (22:10):
To a.

S2 (22:11):
Three year, 3 to 4 years is average uni degree.
But it is it's like that. But it's like I
guess if you think about it, like us in high school,
we come to university, hopefully with a fair range of skills.
And it's the same for the dogs. They have naturally good, um,
foundation skills coming, coming into that, I guess, university phase

(22:32):
of training. Yeah.

S1 (22:34):
So you said that sometimes, I guess along that journey
they decide that, you know, it's not for every dog.
Is there any particular stage when you might realise that
or and or why?

S2 (22:43):
Yeah. Look, it is individual. Sometimes we'll give a dog
a little bit more chance. We'll have training plans in
place to work on certain behaviors, but at some point,
if we don't feel that it's going to be safe
for the handler, that that the dog's support, then we
will make a call at any stage during training. So
one thing I've well, many things I guess I've learned

(23:03):
in the years that I've been doing this is that
behavior is really fluid. So sometimes a dog that's doing
really well early on in training, for whatever reason, may
not continue doing well. Some dogs will fly through it
and fly through into client training and for the rest
of their life. But other dogs might need more time,
or some dogs just actually don't progress or meet potential

(23:24):
like we had hoped. And some of the times that
will look like maybe not being able to focus as well.
Maybe they start to develop some undesirable behaviors, then they're
not able to continue. Sometimes the dogs that actually maybe
we need to give a bit more time, or there
may be more things that we need to work on.
You'd be surprised that by the end of the training,
sometimes they almost overtake their peers or their other training

(23:48):
peers and actually just have this lovely upward progression into
placement with a handler. So it's kind of like us.
We all learn at different stages and sometimes it just clicks. Yeah,
sometimes it clicks. Or maybe it's the right career for them,
like with us. And then sometimes, you know, you might
be in a career or job and go, actually, I might.
Maybe this isn't for me. I'll do something else. Or
maybe actually my calling is something else. So we've been

(24:10):
really lucky to partner with some other agencies that work
with different assistance dogs for people that have post-traumatic stress,
and it might be that they might excel in that
career and not as a seeing eye dog. Yeah.

S1 (24:23):
I guess it's just a very specific kind of role
and set of skills in a way, and you really
need to trust them quite a lot. I have a
lot of people when I'm out and about with puppies saying, oh,
she's she's gonna make it, isn't she? I'm like, I don't,
I don't know, I don't know if that's what she wants.
I don't know if that's what she's gonna do. We'll see. Like,
there's no guessing. I think you can.

S2 (24:41):
Yeah. And look, that is the complexities I think of
what carers do and what trainers do is sometimes, um,
there'll be things that we're not quite sure on if
they're going to progress and do well, or maybe they
actually don't, maybe they don't progress. Um, and it is
the responsibility of the guy. I would say it's probably
one of the most complex assistance roles because of the

(25:03):
amount of task. There's not many other assistance role where
the amount of tasks that the dog needs to perform,
plus in fairly complex environments. So we want to make
sure that the dog is comfortable and happy, um, doing
that and it's right for them, but also that they
perform well for their person and keep their person safe.

S1 (25:23):
So just to finish off, is there anything else that,
you know, maybe we've missed that you think people should
know or might be surprised about teaching the guiding role?

S2 (25:30):
I don't know, I can't think of anything that I get.
Do you think you have any questions that you get
from people that people might be surprised about, or often
you get asked?

S1 (25:39):
I wondered in terms of like how you kind of
keep the motivation. I guess for some of them especially
like either if you do taper off food or offer
less food, or for a dog that's not very foodie
in the first place.

S2 (25:49):
Yeah, look, food is just one reinforcement. So through breeding
and raising, a lot of our dogs actually find reinforcement
from moving and walking. It's a lot harder if they
don't find walking reinforcing as a dog like they don't
enjoy it. Yeah, probably not going to be a seeing
eye dog, but there's so many things like you think
about it, they don't actually have to pull to sniff

(26:11):
things in the environment to be able to smell lots
of things. So they're actually getting enrichment a lot while
they're working. So they probably get connection from their trainer.
So they enjoy going out and being with their trainer.
They enjoy being having food. We do, like you said,
reduce the food reinforcement. But then they've had food reinforcement
with physical prey so touching for a long time from

(26:34):
their carers and then also with us. So some for
dogs that find physical touch or verbal input. So good girl. Um,
you know, those dogs that their tails are wagging and, um. Yeah, yeah. Um,
that they'll find reinforcement from other things. Some dogs just
like being out and about. Um, and actually, they're almost the, the, um, best,
best guides is because they're like, yeah, what are we

(26:55):
doing next? We're going out. Out and about for the
for the right people, you know that. Enjoy that and
are out and about all the time. Yeah. So I
would say that there's so many things that they can
find reinforcing. And we just have to kind of rank
what the dogs actually find reinforcing about their, their role.
The dogs usually, I would say one of the biggest
things that they love is a skill called targeting, which

(27:17):
is kind of putting their nose on doors or an
object traffic light pole. Most of the dogs love it.

S1 (27:25):
So I guess really it is just kind of if
the role is right for the dog, the role is
right for the dog. And they love they love that.
And that's kind of it. I guess in them something
is like, oh yeah, this makes sense to me, I
love it.

S2 (27:36):
Yeah. And sometimes it may not always start out exactly
like that, but they grow so we can see dogs
actually develop confidence and resilience as they go through training. Um,
and find more enjoyment in the role. Yep.

S1 (27:49):
Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on the show and
chatting with me about training.

S2 (27:52):
Thanks for having me, Harriet.

S1 (27:59):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with Kylie.
If you'd like to find out more about seeing Eye dogs,
the work we do, how you can help, or becoming
a handler, head to our website at. If you'd like
to find out more about the behind the scenes of
Seeing Eye Dogs, listen to some handler profiles or hear

(28:20):
the stories from our community, head to your preferred podcast
provider or the Omni FM platform for more episodes of
The Seeing Eye Dog Show and other Great Vision Australia
radio shows. Thank you for listening and have a lovely week.