April 24, 2025 • 27 mins
On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, Harriet is joined by Puppy Development Trainer Steph Shaw to talk about managing excitability and promoting calm behaviour in our dogs and puppies. We talk about what excitability means in different ages and how to recognise when our dogs might need a little cool down with some tips on how to do that.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:11):
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I
am joined by puppy development trainer Steph Shaw, who is
joining us to talk about excitement and calm in our
puppies and dogs. What does it mean for your dog
to be excited? What are the signs of excitement and
in particular nervous or anxious excitement? How do we calm
(00:31):
our dogs and how do we prevent our dogs and
puppies from getting overexcited? We're going to chat about this
topic from the lens of both younger puppies and adult dogs.
So if you want to know more about your dog's
energetic moments, keep listening. I hope you enjoy! Hi Steph,
(00:53):
thanks for joining me on the show today.
S2 (00:54):
Hi, Harriet. Thank you for having me.
S1 (00:57):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:00):
Yeah. So I'm Steph, I'm one of the puppy development
trainers at Seeing Eye Dogs. Um, so I've been with
seeing eye dogs for about a year and a half,
and before that I was an assistant dog instructor for
about nine years.
S1 (01:16):
Wow. That's a fairly fair amount of experience in that.
So you've probably seen quite a lot of different dogs
and different things probably related to the topic that we're
about to talk about.
S2 (01:24):
Absolutely. Yep.
S1 (01:26):
What does a productive calm look like for our puppies
and how might that change as they age?
S2 (01:33):
Yeah. So, um, I guess the definition of calm for
a working dog, like an assistance dog or a seeing
eye dog is, um, a little bit different than what
we might see in a shelter dog or a pet
dog or something like that. So the kind of calm
that we need in our working dogs, it's just like
(01:54):
a productive state, right? We need a dog with a
really good off switch, but they're still able to listen.
So what that might look like is a dog that's got,
you know, soft muscles. They are able to look at
us and they've got, you know, nice, soft, blinky eyes.
They are interested in engaging with us, taking treats. And
(02:17):
if we ask them to do something, they're able to
do it.
S1 (02:21):
How are your expectations of what that looks like? Um,
vary from, say, a puppy who's eight weeks old, you know,
fresh out of the center to your dog in, you know,
in training with that, what you described. Would that be
a potentially a slightly older dog?
S2 (02:35):
Yeah. So with the younger puppies, they really rely very
heavily on a lot of support. So I guess when
we're thinking about a dog's natural state, they very naturally
need a big range of emotions. And if you've ever
had a human toddler in your house, you would know
(02:56):
that at that age, feelings can be really big and
sometimes explosive, and that is completely normal. So I guess
going through the life stages as a really young puppy,
our puppies are going to rely really heavily on their
human partner for what we call co-regulation. So like a
(03:19):
human baby, they're going to let us know, sometimes very loudly,
if they are hungry or thirsty or tired or whatever.
And they really need us as that, you know, parent
or guardian figure to step in and look after them
and show them expectations, what we need. And they often
(03:40):
mirror our emotions a lot. So if they're with someone who's,
you know, nice and calm, breathing slowly, talking calmly, they
really take that on board and sometimes it's really obvious. Um,
so I was out with a little 12 week old
puppy the other day who was with me over the weekend. Um,
and he saw a big German shepherd, and he'd never
(04:03):
seen a big dog before. And his initial reaction was
a little bit of panic. He was like, oh my God,
what's that? Oh my God. And I just, I just
held him and I went, it's okay, buddy, it's a dog.
It's a friend. And immediately he was like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Cool. Hi,
I like you. You're my friend. Um, so that. Yeah,
(04:26):
just really cool to to see how they learn so quickly,
how we expect them to emotionally respond to things at
that age. Um, and by the time that they're, um,
an adult, we're really expecting them to be able to
self-regulate and to know what emotional state is needed in
(04:50):
which particular contexts. Um, and that doesn't mean being calm
all the time. There are times where being excited is
the right reaction. So, you know, if we're out and
about and wanting our dogs to, you know, play with
the kids, jump in the pool, run around at the
dog park. It's completely appropriate for that dog to be
(05:14):
excited to have a higher energy level. Be bouncy, zoom around.
You know, that's part of the joy of having a
dog is those moments. Um, but we really don't want
those behaviors happening. Um, you know, if we're letting our
90 year old grandma in the house, we don't want
our dogs to be zooming around, bouncing off the walls,
(05:36):
barreling into her knees. So, you know, they really need
to understand the context and what's appropriate.
S1 (05:44):
And so I guess it's a little bit the same as,
like a jacket on and jacket off for our dogs too.
So that potentially is part of that cue as well.
S2 (05:52):
Yeah, it definitely can be. So, um, you know, when
we do things really consistently, um, so if we have
a really set pattern of Expectations of our dog's behavior, potentially,
you know, with the coat on or, you know, maybe
it's when we sit down at a cafe, that's our cue,
(06:13):
you know, nothing's going to happen. You can just switch
off now. Um, they really take that on board. Um,
so yeah, consistency is so important. And I think everyone
knows that you've heard that about dog training is you
just need to be consistent. Um, and that's part of
the reason why.
S1 (06:30):
And on the flip side, how do you know when
a puppy is getting overexcited? Um, and what might that
look like?
S2 (06:41):
Yeah. Yep. Um, so I guess the emotional state of
a dog, we've got kind of two real main modes
with the nervous system. So we've got the sympathetic nervous system,
and that's the fight or flight. So I'm sure you've
all heard that term fight or flight. Um, but it
(07:02):
doesn't just relate to Danger or fear. It's also the
same state that our dogs go into when they are excited. Um,
and then we've got our parasympathetic system, which is our
rest and digest, and that's the opposing system. Um, and
(07:24):
they work in harmony in our bodies, and only one
can be on at a time. So they control different things.
So it controls our heart rate. So if you think about,
you know, if you had just watched a scary movie
and you're in a dark room and you just hear
a random noise and suddenly your heart starts pounding and
(07:45):
you've got this like, jolt moment. Um, it's exactly the
same as what happens in our dogs. So you're going
to have that faster heart rate. You're going to have
the faster breathing. Um, and in the tiniest fraction of
a second, um, you sort of jump into alertness and
all of your blood flows to your extremities. So you
(08:07):
might see, um, you know, a dog suddenly starts, um,
panting even though it's not hot or they haven't been exercising. Um,
that's a sure sign that they've got a little bit of,
you know, adrenaline in the system. Um, you're going to
see a lot of faster movements. So where a dog
who's calm might have soft muscles, they're going to be
(08:30):
moving slower. A dog who's excited is going to be
moving faster. Yeah. You're going to have the faster heart rate,
the faster breathing. Um, as the blood rushes from your
digestive system to your extremities, um, you're going to become
(08:51):
suddenly less hungry. If you're really frightened, you might even,
you know, pee yourself. Um, and that's not very common
in our, um, adult dogs, but it's definitely something that
you'll see with a baby puppy, like an eight week
old puppy that just gets overexcited and they just do
this little widdle. The first thing I do when I
(09:11):
walk into the home of a puppy raiser and the
puppy comes up and it's all, like, bouncy all over me, wiggly,
I'm like, let's go outside because your puppy's about to wee. Yeah. So,
you know, it gets things up, gets things flowing. Um,
so yeah, you're going to notice generally primarily you're going
(09:34):
to see them do this like intense stare, focus at
whatever is triggering that excitement. You're going to see the
panting and you're going to see a lot of movement happening.
S1 (09:46):
And so how can you tell the difference between excitement,
you know, about something that they like rather than kind
of activation by stress or fear? Um, so, you know,
the difference between the dog being afraid of something and,
you know, the puppy being excited because, you know, you've
you've arrived, for example.
S2 (10:03):
Yeah. Yep. yeah. Um, so I guess the physiological signs
are pretty much identical. So, um, you're still going to
have all those things we talked about with the heart rate,
the breathing, um, the adrenaline in the system. But what's
different is just the mindset and the expectations. And that
(10:24):
can show up as body language signs. So a dog
who's confident and excited, for example, you might see a
big tail wiggle like a big swishy tail side to side.
They're going to be, um, you know, either ears perked up, um,
(10:44):
have a bit of movement towards whatever they're excited by
that can come in the form of just moving towards things,
but it can also look like lunging towards things, which
is a really common issue for the adolescent dogs that
I work with. And you might see this big happy
smile on their face. Whereas a dog who's more worried
(11:06):
by something you might see movement away. So they might
be sort of balking, lowering their body, trying to avoid.
Sometimes you get a bit of a shutdown. Um, so
it can look like a dog, you know, freezing in place.
And rather than a smile, they're going to have a
lot of tension in their face. So if you compare
(11:27):
side by side, it can be really obvious. And you
can have as well dogs that are in fight mode
where they're in a bit of a negative mindset, but
it's not fear based. And that's where we sometimes see
our aggressive dogs. That one actually, though, is much less
common in seeing eye dog puppies. But yeah, it can
(11:51):
be something where there's a bit more nuance to it.
And especially if a dog's really frustrated, sometimes the barriers
are pretty thin. So sometimes we'll get a call about
a dog who is Lunging, barking, being incredibly full on,
and we really have to use our experience to tease apart,
(12:11):
you know, is that frustration trying to get to a
dog because I want to play? Or is that actually,
you know, I'm guarding you from this dog or I
don't like that dog. So yeah, sometimes it's really obvious
and sometimes not so much.
S1 (12:28):
A bit a bit more complicated, I guess. In that way.
S2 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah.
S1 (12:33):
So are there any other reasons why they might get
excited or you know, what might what might be a
common trigger for some dogs to get excited.
S2 (12:40):
Absolutely. So I guess if you think about things that
would be natural reasons for a dog to get excited,
it would be, um, you know, hunting type triggers. So
if they're seeing a bird and they're sort of expecting
that bird to take flight and they really want to
(13:02):
chase it down, um, so often animals are our trigger
for dogs to get really excited. Um, often it's social.
So and especially in our field, because we breed dogs
to be really, um, extra social and get a lot
of value out of being with people. Um, being friendly
(13:24):
with other dogs sometimes, you know, goes a bit too far,
and we have dogs that get overexcited when they see
another dog and they're really anticipating wanting to, you know,
wrestle and play. And if you know someone's coming to
the door especially, or, you know, kids running chances to
(13:45):
play all of those, you know, active, social, playful type
triggers are really, really common. Um, and the other thing
can be, you know, something sudden and unexpected. So, you know,
maybe they hear a noise outside and they can jolt
awake and suddenly get really excited. Um, I'm sure we've
(14:08):
all had. If you've had a dog, you've probably seen
them do the. I've heard a doorbell on a TV show,
and I launch myself from a dead sleep. Um, yeah.
So all of those things are really common, but it
can be very specific to your dog, um, depending on
what they enjoy in life. Really? Um, yeah.
S1 (14:27):
I guess even food and toys and any, any of
their own things too, if you kind of pick it
up or something, there might be like, oh, what are
we doing now? Fun.
S2 (14:35):
Yeah, exactly. It's that anticipation of something, um, you know,
enjoyable with a lot of movement and a lot of engagement.
S1 (14:46):
So if you have gotten to that stage where you
know your puppy is a bit overexcited, you know, and
you need to calm them down, how might you do that?
S2 (14:57):
So the first thing that you're going to want to
do is if you can get them away from whatever's triggered,
that excitement. So if it's a some obvious environmental trigger.
So say it's that bird. It's that kid bouncing the basketball. Um,
you know, that's easy enough. We can just walk them away. Um,
(15:17):
I find it's really important to give very calm, clear,
direct cues. So you don't want to be standing there
holding the end of the leash, going, hey, dog, come on,
calm down. Um, because they're not in a rational mindset
when they're in that, you know, overexcited state, their rational
(15:38):
brain has just shut down. It is unavailable, and they're
not thinking logically. So we really need to get them
to a space where there's less going on environmentally before
they can actually take on board our input and start
to calm down. And then what we want to do
is give them outlets that trigger behaviors that are naturally calming.
(16:06):
So if you think of like if you've ever been, like,
overexcited as a kid, um, you know, maybe you're, you know,
you've got all this pent up energy and you're running
up and down the hallways. Um, if someone tells you
to calm down, it doesn't work. You can't do that.
It's not a simple off switch. Um, but what you
can do is channel that activity into something more appropriate.
S1 (16:29):
Something more focused.
S2 (16:31):
Exactly. Yeah. So you might, um, remember your mum from
childhood going, go play outside, go bounce on the trampoline,
something like that. So just directing you to an outlet
that's more appropriate. Um, so for some dogs that might
be holding a toy or doing a, a tugging activity.
(16:52):
For others that are more food driven, it might be,
you know, doing some obedience cues like touching your hand
and getting a treat, touch your hand, get a treat
doing really fast games where they're just doing one simple
thing and getting immediate reinforcement feedback. So it's, you know,
that burning off of energy and it's that focusing of
(17:14):
the mind. And then we're going to try and direct
them to a sort of activity that gets them moving
more slowly and breathing slower. Slowing down that heart rate.
So things that are naturally calming for a dog include
things that are chewing, licking, um, sniffing especially. So sniffing
(17:40):
is so important for our dogs. And you know, if
it's a human getting excited, you would know that trick of,
you know, you take a deep breath or breathe and
count to ten. That sort of thing. We can't tell
our dogs to do that, but getting them to do
a sniffing activity actually has the same effect where it's that,
(18:02):
you know, regulation of the breathing that actually it's a
biofeedback response. So as your body starts to do those
calmer things, your body goes, oh, you're doing a calm thing,
so you must be calm. And we're actually then switching
on that parasympathetic nervous system where we're starting to calm down.
So a lot of our dog toys are actually designed
(18:29):
with this in mind, as long as we use them correctly.
So Kongs, for example, like almost every dog owner I
know has a Kong. So we can, you know, put
some whatever kind of food they like in there and
get them licking, get them chewing. We can, um, if
we've got a sniffy mat or a lick mat, get them,
(18:50):
you know, sniffing, licking, looking downwards, breathing slowly. Um, we can,
you know, give them toys where they're tugging on it
a bit, and then we're slowing down, letting go so
they can just chomp away at it. Um, so it's
just meeting them where they're at and then slowing it down.
(19:13):
Does that make sense?
S1 (19:14):
Yeah. And I like the point of kind of doing
something in the interim. So from that really super, super
hyped spot, I guess kind of doing something that's more
of a fast activity. So like kind of a moderate
pace and then to calm rather than just kind of, yeah,
go from zero to go from 60 to 0, I guess. Um,
(19:37):
I think it's a is an interesting point.
S2 (19:39):
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, if we're taking a dog from,
you know, sort of a active, engaged, but not overexcited
state and wanting to calm them down until they can
switch off, then we can do things like, you know,
sitting down with them, talking calmly and slowly, stroking them to,
(20:01):
you know, get them fully switched off. But if you
try and do those things while they're crazy overexcited, they
are not going to take it on board. They're probably
just going to jump up and headbutt you, or mouth
your hand, or grab the leash or something like that. Um, so,
you know, if you think about, uh, if you were
in the middle of a football game and your mom
(20:21):
came out and started to do a shoulder massage, like,
it's just really weird, right? It doesn't feel appropriate context. Yeah. Um,
so we need to, you know, do the. Okay, we
finished that activity. Now we're doing a cool down and
now it's calm down time.
S1 (20:38):
Mhm. So I guess that kind of leads on to the,
the last and kind of final of my, of my
questions that I had for today, which was, you know,
how do you prevent that puppy from becoming overexcited in
the future.
S2 (20:52):
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's so important. Like if we can
stop things before they start, that's just so much better
than doing damage control. So obviously a really big part
of it is having a good routine that meets our
dogs needs. So, you know, making sure they're getting enough sleep, um,
(21:14):
is huge. And that's such a big one for baby puppies, especially.
Almost always like the first suggestion I make, if I'm
hearing about a little puppy that's having, you know, real
shark mode, like being completely feral is, I just make sure,
you know, are they doing it because they're excited, or
(21:34):
are they doing it because they need a nap? And
it's almost always they've just two done too much. They've
gone past tired and out the other side into the crazies.
And if we can calm them down and get them
to have a nap, they are good as gold. Um, and,
you know, we're making sure that they get their exercises,
their outlets. We're giving them that, you know, you know,
(21:56):
healthy diet, all of those sorts of things. Usually that's
a bit of a given if we're thinking about seeing
our dog puppies. Um, but the thing sometimes we miss
is making sure if it's, um, dogs that they're getting
really excited about. And that is like the main thing
that I get asked about, um, with a seeing eye
(22:18):
dog puppy is people will say they're just really excited
around other dogs. What do I do? And it's one
of the main reasons that our dogs might get released
from a seeing eye dog program and not be successful
is that they're overexcited around other dogs. So, um, making
sure that if they're doing it because they really value
engagement with other dogs, that they do have some outlet
(22:41):
to actually hang out with dog friends. Um, where maybe
we're setting up puppy play date or, you know, walks
and cafe stops with dogs that they get to know
on a regular basis. So, you know, we're just not going. No,
you can't do that. We're going. Absolutely. You can have friends.
That's that's a good thing for anyone. Um, but when
(23:04):
you're working, you know, then you have to focus and
ignore the dogs. So we're trying to give them an outlet,
but put it in context. Um, and if we can
catch our dogs before they get overexcited. So let's just
say you're walking down the street, your dog spots a dog. Um,
(23:26):
so you might notice that they will suddenly, you know,
perk their ears up. They will bring their head up.
They will start staring at a dog down the street. Um,
you'll notice that little bit of, like, um, I've gone from, like,
loose and flowy to. Oh. What's that? Um, if we
can catch them in that moment and keep them from
(23:49):
getting overexcited, um, we are going to have so much
of an easier time than if we just kept walking,
and then they lose it. Um, so our switch from, like,
being calm to overexcited is super quick and it takes
a super long time to calm down from there. Um,
whereas if we can just keep them calm, that's easier.
(24:11):
So that might look like as soon as we see
that whoa moment, we get them doing our, um, you know,
touch the hand. Here's a treat. Touch the hand, here's
a treat. Or look at me. Here's a treat. Or
maybe for some dogs who don't like food, I might
get them to. Here's a toy. Hold the squeaky toy
as we go past. Um, so we're trying to keep
them engaged with us, keep them doing some, like, um,
(24:37):
entertainingly intense game. Um, so we're giving them that little
bit of an outlet, but keeping them in that thinking brain, um,
before they go over the top. Excited? Um, yeah.
S1 (24:52):
I'm guessing probably the more time they spend in that very,
very overexcited spot, the more they get used to that
as a reaction to some degree.
S2 (25:01):
Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and it's. Yeah, as well, if they're
seeing dogs and they always get overexcited and react to dogs,
we're building that as a pattern and they start to expect, oh,
I get overexcited when I see dogs. It's actually one
of the reasons we don't recommend, um, really intense ball
chucking activities and fetch activities for our Seeing eye dog
(25:23):
puppies is, um, if you think about how excited and
intense they get during those big fetch games, if we're
doing that for half an hour a day, we're really
priming their nervous system to anticipate and even need that
real overexcited time of day. And if they don't have
(25:49):
that outlet, suddenly you've got that carrying over into other
aspects of life, and you're getting a lot more excitement
in other activities that you really don't want.
S1 (25:59):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
and chatting about excitement and To come.
S2 (26:04):
Yeah. Thanks very much. Thanks for having me.
S1 (26:11):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
puppy development trainer Steph Shaw. We have so many tips
and tricks and interviews with information from our experts in
training and behaviour, health and dog care. Available on your
preferred podcast platform or our Omni FM page. Don't forget
to check it out if you'd like to learn about
(26:33):
seeing eye dogs, the work we do, or becoming a
handler or volunteer or supporting us. Head to our website at.
For other information and upcoming events about our carer volunteering programs.
Or head to our website at Australian Volunteer. Thank you
(26:53):
for listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show. Don't forget
to tune in same time next week for another episode
of the show.
On Vision Australia radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show. With me, your host, Harriet Moffatt. Today I
am joined by puppy development trainer Steph Shaw, who is
joining us to talk about excitement and calm in our
puppies and dogs. What does it mean for your dog
to be excited? What are the signs of excitement and
in particular nervous or anxious excitement? How do we calm
(00:31):
our dogs and how do we prevent our dogs and
puppies from getting overexcited? We're going to chat about this
topic from the lens of both younger puppies and adult dogs.
So if you want to know more about your dog's
energetic moments, keep listening. I hope you enjoy! Hi Steph,
(00:53):
thanks for joining me on the show today.
S2 (00:54):
Hi, Harriet. Thank you for having me.
S1 (00:57):
Could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S2 (01:00):
Yeah. So I'm Steph, I'm one of the puppy development
trainers at Seeing Eye Dogs. Um, so I've been with
seeing eye dogs for about a year and a half,
and before that I was an assistant dog instructor for
about nine years.
S1 (01:16):
Wow. That's a fairly fair amount of experience in that.
So you've probably seen quite a lot of different dogs
and different things probably related to the topic that we're
about to talk about.
S2 (01:24):
Absolutely. Yep.
S1 (01:26):
What does a productive calm look like for our puppies
and how might that change as they age?
S2 (01:33):
Yeah. So, um, I guess the definition of calm for
a working dog, like an assistance dog or a seeing
eye dog is, um, a little bit different than what
we might see in a shelter dog or a pet
dog or something like that. So the kind of calm
that we need in our working dogs, it's just like
(01:54):
a productive state, right? We need a dog with a
really good off switch, but they're still able to listen.
So what that might look like is a dog that's got,
you know, soft muscles. They are able to look at
us and they've got, you know, nice, soft, blinky eyes.
They are interested in engaging with us, taking treats. And
(02:17):
if we ask them to do something, they're able to
do it.
S1 (02:21):
How are your expectations of what that looks like? Um,
vary from, say, a puppy who's eight weeks old, you know,
fresh out of the center to your dog in, you know,
in training with that, what you described. Would that be
a potentially a slightly older dog?
S2 (02:35):
Yeah. So with the younger puppies, they really rely very
heavily on a lot of support. So I guess when
we're thinking about a dog's natural state, they very naturally
need a big range of emotions. And if you've ever
had a human toddler in your house, you would know
(02:56):
that at that age, feelings can be really big and
sometimes explosive, and that is completely normal. So I guess
going through the life stages as a really young puppy,
our puppies are going to rely really heavily on their
human partner for what we call co-regulation. So like a
(03:19):
human baby, they're going to let us know, sometimes very loudly,
if they are hungry or thirsty or tired or whatever.
And they really need us as that, you know, parent
or guardian figure to step in and look after them
and show them expectations, what we need. And they often
(03:40):
mirror our emotions a lot. So if they're with someone who's,
you know, nice and calm, breathing slowly, talking calmly, they
really take that on board and sometimes it's really obvious. Um,
so I was out with a little 12 week old
puppy the other day who was with me over the weekend. Um,
and he saw a big German shepherd, and he'd never
(04:03):
seen a big dog before. And his initial reaction was
a little bit of panic. He was like, oh my God,
what's that? Oh my God. And I just, I just
held him and I went, it's okay, buddy, it's a dog.
It's a friend. And immediately he was like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah. Cool. Hi,
I like you. You're my friend. Um, so that. Yeah,
(04:26):
just really cool to to see how they learn so quickly,
how we expect them to emotionally respond to things at
that age. Um, and by the time that they're, um,
an adult, we're really expecting them to be able to
self-regulate and to know what emotional state is needed in
(04:50):
which particular contexts. Um, and that doesn't mean being calm
all the time. There are times where being excited is
the right reaction. So, you know, if we're out and
about and wanting our dogs to, you know, play with
the kids, jump in the pool, run around at the
dog park. It's completely appropriate for that dog to be
(05:14):
excited to have a higher energy level. Be bouncy, zoom around.
You know, that's part of the joy of having a
dog is those moments. Um, but we really don't want
those behaviors happening. Um, you know, if we're letting our
90 year old grandma in the house, we don't want
our dogs to be zooming around, bouncing off the walls,
(05:36):
barreling into her knees. So, you know, they really need
to understand the context and what's appropriate.
S1 (05:44):
And so I guess it's a little bit the same as,
like a jacket on and jacket off for our dogs too.
So that potentially is part of that cue as well.
S2 (05:52):
Yeah, it definitely can be. So, um, you know, when
we do things really consistently, um, so if we have
a really set pattern of Expectations of our dog's behavior, potentially,
you know, with the coat on or, you know, maybe
it's when we sit down at a cafe, that's our cue,
(06:13):
you know, nothing's going to happen. You can just switch
off now. Um, they really take that on board. Um,
so yeah, consistency is so important. And I think everyone
knows that you've heard that about dog training is you
just need to be consistent. Um, and that's part of
the reason why.
S1 (06:30):
And on the flip side, how do you know when
a puppy is getting overexcited? Um, and what might that
look like?
S2 (06:41):
Yeah. Yep. Um, so I guess the emotional state of
a dog, we've got kind of two real main modes
with the nervous system. So we've got the sympathetic nervous system,
and that's the fight or flight. So I'm sure you've
all heard that term fight or flight. Um, but it
(07:02):
doesn't just relate to Danger or fear. It's also the
same state that our dogs go into when they are excited. Um,
and then we've got our parasympathetic system, which is our
rest and digest, and that's the opposing system. Um, and
(07:24):
they work in harmony in our bodies, and only one
can be on at a time. So they control different things.
So it controls our heart rate. So if you think about,
you know, if you had just watched a scary movie
and you're in a dark room and you just hear
a random noise and suddenly your heart starts pounding and
(07:45):
you've got this like, jolt moment. Um, it's exactly the
same as what happens in our dogs. So you're going
to have that faster heart rate. You're going to have
the faster breathing. Um, and in the tiniest fraction of
a second, um, you sort of jump into alertness and
all of your blood flows to your extremities. So you
(08:07):
might see, um, you know, a dog suddenly starts, um,
panting even though it's not hot or they haven't been exercising. Um,
that's a sure sign that they've got a little bit of,
you know, adrenaline in the system. Um, you're going to
see a lot of faster movements. So where a dog
who's calm might have soft muscles, they're going to be
(08:30):
moving slower. A dog who's excited is going to be
moving faster. Yeah. You're going to have the faster heart rate,
the faster breathing. Um, as the blood rushes from your
digestive system to your extremities, um, you're going to become
(08:51):
suddenly less hungry. If you're really frightened, you might even,
you know, pee yourself. Um, and that's not very common
in our, um, adult dogs, but it's definitely something that
you'll see with a baby puppy, like an eight week
old puppy that just gets overexcited and they just do
this little widdle. The first thing I do when I
(09:11):
walk into the home of a puppy raiser and the
puppy comes up and it's all, like, bouncy all over me, wiggly,
I'm like, let's go outside because your puppy's about to wee. Yeah. So,
you know, it gets things up, gets things flowing. Um,
so yeah, you're going to notice generally primarily you're going
(09:34):
to see them do this like intense stare, focus at
whatever is triggering that excitement. You're going to see the
panting and you're going to see a lot of movement happening.
S1 (09:46):
And so how can you tell the difference between excitement,
you know, about something that they like rather than kind
of activation by stress or fear? Um, so, you know,
the difference between the dog being afraid of something and,
you know, the puppy being excited because, you know, you've
you've arrived, for example.
S2 (10:03):
Yeah. Yep. yeah. Um, so I guess the physiological signs
are pretty much identical. So, um, you're still going to
have all those things we talked about with the heart rate,
the breathing, um, the adrenaline in the system. But what's
different is just the mindset and the expectations. And that
(10:24):
can show up as body language signs. So a dog
who's confident and excited, for example, you might see a
big tail wiggle like a big swishy tail side to side.
They're going to be, um, you know, either ears perked up, um,
(10:44):
have a bit of movement towards whatever they're excited by
that can come in the form of just moving towards things,
but it can also look like lunging towards things, which
is a really common issue for the adolescent dogs that
I work with. And you might see this big happy
smile on their face. Whereas a dog who's more worried
(11:06):
by something you might see movement away. So they might
be sort of balking, lowering their body, trying to avoid.
Sometimes you get a bit of a shutdown. Um, so
it can look like a dog, you know, freezing in place.
And rather than a smile, they're going to have a
lot of tension in their face. So if you compare
(11:27):
side by side, it can be really obvious. And you
can have as well dogs that are in fight mode
where they're in a bit of a negative mindset, but
it's not fear based. And that's where we sometimes see
our aggressive dogs. That one actually, though, is much less
common in seeing eye dog puppies. But yeah, it can
(11:51):
be something where there's a bit more nuance to it.
And especially if a dog's really frustrated, sometimes the barriers
are pretty thin. So sometimes we'll get a call about
a dog who is Lunging, barking, being incredibly full on,
and we really have to use our experience to tease apart,
(12:11):
you know, is that frustration trying to get to a
dog because I want to play? Or is that actually,
you know, I'm guarding you from this dog or I
don't like that dog. So yeah, sometimes it's really obvious
and sometimes not so much.
S1 (12:28):
A bit a bit more complicated, I guess. In that way.
S2 (12:31):
Yeah, yeah.
S1 (12:33):
So are there any other reasons why they might get
excited or you know, what might what might be a
common trigger for some dogs to get excited.
S2 (12:40):
Absolutely. So I guess if you think about things that
would be natural reasons for a dog to get excited,
it would be, um, you know, hunting type triggers. So
if they're seeing a bird and they're sort of expecting
that bird to take flight and they really want to
(13:02):
chase it down, um, so often animals are our trigger
for dogs to get really excited. Um, often it's social.
So and especially in our field, because we breed dogs
to be really, um, extra social and get a lot
of value out of being with people. Um, being friendly
(13:24):
with other dogs sometimes, you know, goes a bit too far,
and we have dogs that get overexcited when they see
another dog and they're really anticipating wanting to, you know,
wrestle and play. And if you know someone's coming to
the door especially, or, you know, kids running chances to
(13:45):
play all of those, you know, active, social, playful type
triggers are really, really common. Um, and the other thing
can be, you know, something sudden and unexpected. So, you know,
maybe they hear a noise outside and they can jolt
awake and suddenly get really excited. Um, I'm sure we've
(14:08):
all had. If you've had a dog, you've probably seen
them do the. I've heard a doorbell on a TV show,
and I launch myself from a dead sleep. Um, yeah.
So all of those things are really common, but it
can be very specific to your dog, um, depending on
what they enjoy in life. Really? Um, yeah.
S1 (14:27):
I guess even food and toys and any, any of
their own things too, if you kind of pick it
up or something, there might be like, oh, what are
we doing now? Fun.
S2 (14:35):
Yeah, exactly. It's that anticipation of something, um, you know,
enjoyable with a lot of movement and a lot of engagement.
S1 (14:46):
So if you have gotten to that stage where you
know your puppy is a bit overexcited, you know, and
you need to calm them down, how might you do that?
S2 (14:57):
So the first thing that you're going to want to
do is if you can get them away from whatever's triggered,
that excitement. So if it's a some obvious environmental trigger.
So say it's that bird. It's that kid bouncing the basketball. Um,
you know, that's easy enough. We can just walk them away. Um,
(15:17):
I find it's really important to give very calm, clear,
direct cues. So you don't want to be standing there
holding the end of the leash, going, hey, dog, come on,
calm down. Um, because they're not in a rational mindset
when they're in that, you know, overexcited state, their rational
(15:38):
brain has just shut down. It is unavailable, and they're
not thinking logically. So we really need to get them
to a space where there's less going on environmentally before
they can actually take on board our input and start
to calm down. And then what we want to do
is give them outlets that trigger behaviors that are naturally calming.
(16:06):
So if you think of like if you've ever been, like,
overexcited as a kid, um, you know, maybe you're, you know,
you've got all this pent up energy and you're running
up and down the hallways. Um, if someone tells you
to calm down, it doesn't work. You can't do that.
It's not a simple off switch. Um, but what you
can do is channel that activity into something more appropriate.
S1 (16:29):
Something more focused.
S2 (16:31):
Exactly. Yeah. So you might, um, remember your mum from
childhood going, go play outside, go bounce on the trampoline,
something like that. So just directing you to an outlet
that's more appropriate. Um, so for some dogs that might
be holding a toy or doing a, a tugging activity.
(16:52):
For others that are more food driven, it might be,
you know, doing some obedience cues like touching your hand
and getting a treat, touch your hand, get a treat
doing really fast games where they're just doing one simple
thing and getting immediate reinforcement feedback. So it's, you know,
that burning off of energy and it's that focusing of
(17:14):
the mind. And then we're going to try and direct
them to a sort of activity that gets them moving
more slowly and breathing slower. Slowing down that heart rate.
So things that are naturally calming for a dog include
things that are chewing, licking, um, sniffing especially. So sniffing
(17:40):
is so important for our dogs. And you know, if
it's a human getting excited, you would know that trick of,
you know, you take a deep breath or breathe and
count to ten. That sort of thing. We can't tell
our dogs to do that, but getting them to do
a sniffing activity actually has the same effect where it's that,
(18:02):
you know, regulation of the breathing that actually it's a
biofeedback response. So as your body starts to do those
calmer things, your body goes, oh, you're doing a calm thing,
so you must be calm. And we're actually then switching
on that parasympathetic nervous system where we're starting to calm down.
So a lot of our dog toys are actually designed
(18:29):
with this in mind, as long as we use them correctly.
So Kongs, for example, like almost every dog owner I
know has a Kong. So we can, you know, put
some whatever kind of food they like in there and
get them licking, get them chewing. We can, um, if
we've got a sniffy mat or a lick mat, get them,
(18:50):
you know, sniffing, licking, looking downwards, breathing slowly. Um, we can,
you know, give them toys where they're tugging on it
a bit, and then we're slowing down, letting go so
they can just chomp away at it. Um, so it's
just meeting them where they're at and then slowing it down.
(19:13):
Does that make sense?
S1 (19:14):
Yeah. And I like the point of kind of doing
something in the interim. So from that really super, super
hyped spot, I guess kind of doing something that's more
of a fast activity. So like kind of a moderate
pace and then to calm rather than just kind of, yeah,
go from zero to go from 60 to 0, I guess. Um,
(19:37):
I think it's a is an interesting point.
S2 (19:39):
Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, if we're taking a dog from,
you know, sort of a active, engaged, but not overexcited
state and wanting to calm them down until they can
switch off, then we can do things like, you know,
sitting down with them, talking calmly and slowly, stroking them to,
(20:01):
you know, get them fully switched off. But if you
try and do those things while they're crazy overexcited, they
are not going to take it on board. They're probably
just going to jump up and headbutt you, or mouth
your hand, or grab the leash or something like that. Um, so,
you know, if you think about, uh, if you were
in the middle of a football game and your mom
(20:21):
came out and started to do a shoulder massage, like,
it's just really weird, right? It doesn't feel appropriate context. Yeah. Um,
so we need to, you know, do the. Okay, we
finished that activity. Now we're doing a cool down and
now it's calm down time.
S1 (20:38):
Mhm. So I guess that kind of leads on to the,
the last and kind of final of my, of my
questions that I had for today, which was, you know,
how do you prevent that puppy from becoming overexcited in
the future.
S2 (20:52):
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's so important. Like if we can
stop things before they start, that's just so much better
than doing damage control. So obviously a really big part
of it is having a good routine that meets our
dogs needs. So, you know, making sure they're getting enough sleep, um,
(21:14):
is huge. And that's such a big one for baby puppies, especially.
Almost always like the first suggestion I make, if I'm
hearing about a little puppy that's having, you know, real
shark mode, like being completely feral is, I just make sure,
you know, are they doing it because they're excited, or
(21:34):
are they doing it because they need a nap? And
it's almost always they've just two done too much. They've
gone past tired and out the other side into the crazies.
And if we can calm them down and get them
to have a nap, they are good as gold. Um, and,
you know, we're making sure that they get their exercises,
their outlets. We're giving them that, you know, you know,
(21:56):
healthy diet, all of those sorts of things. Usually that's
a bit of a given if we're thinking about seeing
our dog puppies. Um, but the thing sometimes we miss
is making sure if it's, um, dogs that they're getting
really excited about. And that is like the main thing
that I get asked about, um, with a seeing eye
(22:18):
dog puppy is people will say they're just really excited
around other dogs. What do I do? And it's one
of the main reasons that our dogs might get released
from a seeing eye dog program and not be successful
is that they're overexcited around other dogs. So, um, making
sure that if they're doing it because they really value
engagement with other dogs, that they do have some outlet
(22:41):
to actually hang out with dog friends. Um, where maybe
we're setting up puppy play date or, you know, walks
and cafe stops with dogs that they get to know
on a regular basis. So, you know, we're just not going. No,
you can't do that. We're going. Absolutely. You can have friends.
That's that's a good thing for anyone. Um, but when
(23:04):
you're working, you know, then you have to focus and
ignore the dogs. So we're trying to give them an outlet,
but put it in context. Um, and if we can
catch our dogs before they get overexcited. So let's just
say you're walking down the street, your dog spots a dog. Um,
(23:26):
so you might notice that they will suddenly, you know,
perk their ears up. They will bring their head up.
They will start staring at a dog down the street. Um,
you'll notice that little bit of, like, um, I've gone from, like,
loose and flowy to. Oh. What's that? Um, if we
can catch them in that moment and keep them from
(23:49):
getting overexcited, um, we are going to have so much
of an easier time than if we just kept walking,
and then they lose it. Um, so our switch from, like,
being calm to overexcited is super quick and it takes
a super long time to calm down from there. Um,
whereas if we can just keep them calm, that's easier.
(24:11):
So that might look like as soon as we see
that whoa moment, we get them doing our, um, you know,
touch the hand. Here's a treat. Touch the hand, here's
a treat. Or look at me. Here's a treat. Or
maybe for some dogs who don't like food, I might
get them to. Here's a toy. Hold the squeaky toy
as we go past. Um, so we're trying to keep
them engaged with us, keep them doing some, like, um,
(24:37):
entertainingly intense game. Um, so we're giving them that little
bit of an outlet, but keeping them in that thinking brain, um,
before they go over the top. Excited? Um, yeah.
S1 (24:52):
I'm guessing probably the more time they spend in that very,
very overexcited spot, the more they get used to that
as a reaction to some degree.
S2 (25:01):
Absolutely. Yeah. Um, and it's. Yeah, as well, if they're
seeing dogs and they always get overexcited and react to dogs,
we're building that as a pattern and they start to expect, oh,
I get overexcited when I see dogs. It's actually one
of the reasons we don't recommend, um, really intense ball
chucking activities and fetch activities for our Seeing eye dog
(25:23):
puppies is, um, if you think about how excited and
intense they get during those big fetch games, if we're
doing that for half an hour a day, we're really
priming their nervous system to anticipate and even need that
real overexcited time of day. And if they don't have
(25:49):
that outlet, suddenly you've got that carrying over into other
aspects of life, and you're getting a lot more excitement
in other activities that you really don't want.
S1 (25:59):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
and chatting about excitement and To come.
S2 (26:04):
Yeah. Thanks very much. Thanks for having me.
S1 (26:11):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
puppy development trainer Steph Shaw. We have so many tips
and tricks and interviews with information from our experts in
training and behaviour, health and dog care. Available on your
preferred podcast platform or our Omni FM page. Don't forget
to check it out if you'd like to learn about
(26:33):
seeing eye dogs, the work we do, or becoming a
handler or volunteer or supporting us. Head to our website at.
For other information and upcoming events about our carer volunteering programs.
Or head to our website at Australian Volunteer. Thank you
(26:53):
for listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show. Don't forget
to tune in same time next week for another episode
of the show.
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