November 25, 2025 • 29 mins
On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, Harriet is joined by Seeing Eye Dogs puppy and relief care volunteer and Vision Australia volunteer Steven Kroger. Steve is retired and has volunteered for Vision Australia and Seeing Eye Dogs since 2018. Steve keeps himself busy reviewing parmiganas, supporting clients, attending theatres and music events, and raising puppies. Keep streaming to hear about Steve's story as a volunteer and life with Seeing Eye Dogs pups.
If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/
We are looking for puppy carers now so if you're keen to raise a puppy to hopefully become a Seeing Eye Dog we'd like to hear from you! It's an incredibly rewarding experience, with training provided. Carers need time, patience and love to give to a puppy, so if you want to commit to a year of puppy raising, we would love your help. We're looking for carers now in parts of Victoria, Queensland and New South Wales listed on our website. Get in touch to find out about volunteering with us or apply now via our website.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:19):
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I
am joined by seeing Eye Dogs, puppy and Foster care
volunteer and Vision Australia volunteer Steven Kroger. Steve is going
to talk to us about his life and his story
as a volunteer, and we're going to have a bit
(00:41):
of an insight into some of the things that are puppies,
like his most recent puppy lyric, get up to with
their volunteer puppy carers. If you're interested in becoming a
puppy carer. We're looking for volunteers now, and this interview
is a great way to find out a little bit
about what it's like. I hope you enjoy this interview.
S2 (01:08):
Hi Steve, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S3 (01:11):
It's a pleasure to be here.
S2 (01:13):
So could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S3 (01:16):
Sure. My name's Stephen Kroger. I'm retired, married to Margaret
or Meg for short, who also happens to be a
Vision Australia volunteer for the audio describing team. My interests
are in cooking, going to the theatre, traveling locally and international,
and I also have a bit of a reputation for
(01:36):
reviewing parmesan cheese.
S2 (01:39):
How many Palmers do you think that you've roughly, you know,
reviewed in your time?
S3 (01:44):
Ah, it would have to be a couple of hundred.
Every time I go to a pub, I always order
a parmigiana. And then I will give it a review
based on, you know, whether they put the chips underneath
the Palmer so they get soggy or they have a
salad and there's that much dressing. It makes the crumbs
on the Palmer go soggy. Um, and various other aspects.
(02:06):
So I have a rating system and, and I have
a following on Facebook that, um, check them out.
S2 (02:14):
Wow. So are there any, like, you know, big favorites
that you've got in the time that you feel like
the audience should know about?
S3 (02:21):
Uh, probably one of my favorites. I've been back a
couple of times. It's the Metropolitan Hotel in North Melbourne.
S2 (02:29):
Mhm.
S3 (02:29):
That that is my like it's a nine out of
ten and it didn't get ten because I like to
leave a bit of room for something better. Although I
haven't found it yet.
S2 (02:41):
Interesting. I wonder what it would take to get that ten.
S3 (02:44):
Then I would have to be pretty spectacular.
S2 (02:50):
Some sort of like fancy chicken and, you know, some
sort of like super, super fancy imported cheese as well.
S3 (02:58):
Probably. Um, another one I really liked was a Palmer
that it had, um, turkey.
S2 (03:05):
Um.
S3 (03:06):
Chicken with cranberry sauce instead of the normal, normal sauce.
And that was actually very nice too.
S2 (03:13):
Interesting. I mean, that one is a bit more rogue.
Whereas I think being a being a vegetarian, I think
you get the option of like a mock meat type
of thing or a, an eggplant type of thing. And it's,
it's a bit dire out there, I think.
S3 (03:25):
Yeah. Um, the vegetarian version, some of them are very
well done and there's others that are just yuck.
S2 (03:33):
Yeah. A poor excuse for a dish.
S3 (03:36):
Absolutely.
S2 (03:37):
So what is your volunteer role at seeing eye dogs,
and how long have you been volunteering?
S3 (03:43):
Well, I started volunteering, um, in 2018, so I'm currently
a puppy carer and. And foster carer. I do occasionally
foster care for working dogs when clients need to to
go away or go to hospital for a procedure or something.
I originally started in 2018, as I said, working as
(04:07):
a client technology support volunteer, which involved helping clients with
with any type of technology, whether it be the old
fashioned daisy players, which were book readers or general readers
for for reading letters and newspapers and so on, or
talking scales and talking watches and so on. Just showing
(04:28):
the client how to use them and providing the client
with support. And um, from that point, I volunteered to
become a foster carer of puppies and then a full
time puppy carer, as most of the clients in my
area that I was supporting, which is about 17. Wow. Um,
(04:49):
most of them were on the wait list for a puppy,
but back then you were waiting for two plus years
for a puppy. So I thought, well, there's something I
can do about this.
S2 (04:58):
Oh, they were in for a for a working dog.
S3 (05:00):
Yes. So I, I still see quite a few of
those clients. And it can be anything from helping them
upgrade their computer or all going around to their house
when puppy food gets delivered for their working dog and
taking it into the house for them, because invariably it
gets left on their front doorstep and it's a bit
(05:21):
heavy for them to carry.
S4 (05:24):
So what made you decide.
S2 (05:26):
To become a puppy carer or even start volunteering at
Vision Australia?
S3 (05:32):
Well, I originally I, I did decide to retire early
and it was always on my retirement plan to do
something for my local community. Before I retired, I was
volunteering for Vision Australia and I used to also go
to numerous community gatherings where the clients would all come
(05:54):
down to our local Vision Australia office, and they would
have morning teas and guests would come along and give
talks and so on. And that led me to being
more in the technology support area quite a few years ago.
Every time your phone or your TV or your computer updated,
the position of buttons would move and functions would change.
Most updates don't come with a manual, so it would
(06:17):
be a matter of showing the clients, um, what they
needed needed to do or the changes. So in their,
in their, um, devices. And um, I then thought, well,
I'll become a foster carer and after having two dogs
as foster care, then I became a full time carer. Um,
(06:39):
I still go down to the local Vision Australia office
with my puppy, which the clients love and um, just
enjoy their company and they enjoy the puppies company.
S4 (06:51):
And can you tell us about.
S2 (06:52):
Your most recent puppy, please?
S3 (06:56):
Wow. My most recent pup is Lyric Lyrics, one of
four in the litter. The only boy. He's a chocolate lab,
the only chocolate in the litter as well. And he
is grown to be a 36 kilo.
S4 (07:12):
Wow.
S3 (07:13):
He's very affectionate. A little bit too much. Truth be told,
he does not like being out of sight of you. But, um,
he's always looking for for cuddles and to play and
so on. Uh, lyric lived with two toy poodles who
were known as Harry and Jack and, um in lyrics
(07:38):
time with me. He was also babysitting foster pups, as
in Georgia, Kitt, Bada and Yuri.
S2 (07:46):
Would have had quite a full house then.
S3 (07:49):
Yeah, yeah, I've I've had, um. Sometimes when friends go away,
I look after their dogs, so I've, I've got a
foster dog lyric two of my own and a couple
of friends dogs. And that's 6 or 7 dogs around
the house.
S2 (08:02):
Wow.
S3 (08:03):
They all get on, all get on famously, and they
all compete for attention, which can be quite funny at times.
S2 (08:12):
And I can imagine that despite the fact that lyric
is 36 kilos, I can imagine that he wasn't necessarily
always the big boss boss dog.
S3 (08:22):
No, no, the the two poodles rule the roost.
S4 (08:27):
Yeah.
S3 (08:28):
And the time lyric came up until the day he left.
The poodles are in charge and lyric does what they say.
If they walk up to his food bowl and want
to take some kibble, he stand back and stands back
and lets them.
S4 (08:42):
Yeah. Okay. Okay. It's fine. Yeah.
S3 (08:45):
No, um. He'll stand back and watch them eat when
they disappear and they're out of sight. He might go
do the dishes, but, um, they're definitely the boss. And
and lyric complies with what their wishes are. Um. And
even the, um, the youngest of the puppies. Who's Jack
(09:06):
when Jack decides he wants to go into lyrics crate
and have a nap, and that's absolutely fine. Jack owns
the crate while he's there.
S2 (09:15):
Well, I mean, it sounds like lyrics got quite kind
of gentle personality for such a big lad. What kind
of current stage is he at now with his training?
S3 (09:25):
Um, he he's currently being assessed as a breeder. So
he went in last week and he's got to go
through the temperament and, and basic medical checks to, um,
see if he's got what it takes to be a breeder.
S2 (09:42):
Oh. Very exciting. Well, my fingers are crossed for Mr. Lyric.
S3 (09:46):
Yeah. Look, I think he'd be a great dog. If
he knows somebody really well, he can be a little
bit full on as he he'll. He'll come along and
nudge you. And, you know, I want a pet. So
I'm going to turn around and rub my body on
your thigh. Or he's got used to treats being in
people's back pockets. So he'll give you a bump with
his nose if he thinks it's time for a treat.
(10:08):
But with strangers he would generally just sit back. His
favorite position is to sit on my foot and, um,
wag his tail and look up at people with that
look in his eye that says, you know, please pat me.
S2 (10:22):
Oh, and how many puppies have you had in total?
S3 (10:26):
I've had nine full time pups and about 35 foster pups.
S2 (10:32):
Wow.
S3 (10:33):
Over my 9 to 10 years. Yeah, I've had a
couple of, um, working dogs that I've fostered as well
for clients.
S2 (10:41):
Do you feel like you've kind of had no too,
with that of the same type of vibe in that
large number?
S3 (10:46):
Every single one is different. Everyone is different, without exception. Um,
they've all got a fantastic character. They're very laid back. Um.
Very get to say FOMO. But they they like to
be around. They like to know what's happening. They're not
(11:09):
really content with being by themselves and entertaining themselves. They
really like to know what you're doing. They're very comfortable
sleeping under the desk when you're working or going for
walks around the shops and so on. Sometimes they might
get a little bit cheeky and and think, I need
to go and investigate some strange smell or something, but
(11:32):
they normally come back into line pretty quick. Yeah, I
have a regular routine with the pups. Supermarkets are within
walking distance from my place, so I'll have a dog
in my left hand and a shopping bag in my
right hand, and I can only buy what fits in
the shopping bag. So three times a week we go
to the supermarket or go to cafes for time 4
(11:55):
or 5 times a week, restaurants a couple of times
a week. We go to an aged care home once
a week where the clients absolutely adore having a puppy
come in. Um, we would go Train to Melbourne once
a fortnight. Movies and live. Live theatre. Um, as well
as as friends and family. And tell you a funny story.
(12:17):
We went to the live theatre at the Sumner Theatre
in Southbank, and puppy decided to fall asleep and snore
extremely loudly, to the point where the actors on the
stage could hear the dog snoring.
S2 (12:33):
Wow.
S3 (12:35):
Are looking around and looking around. It was a comedy show,
so part of the act was the, um, the comedians
that were on the stage would pick out an audience
member and tease them. So it was a perfect opportunity
for the comedian that was on the stage, but he
could not locate who was asleep and snoring. And so
(12:58):
everybody is sort of looking in my direction and I'm
looking over my shoulder pretending it's not me. So. And
the comedian got through the show, and at the end
of the show, he went out into the foyer to
try and sell some merchandise, and out we walk the
dog and as soon as he saw the dog, he
he realized.
S2 (13:16):
What I see.
S3 (13:18):
So the puppy ended up, um, in the in the
comedian's arms, with some shots taken that were used as
a bit of a promotion for his show.
S2 (13:29):
Ah. How funny.
S3 (13:31):
So yeah, there's many stories like that. Some people get
very annoyed when the dogs snoring next to them too,
but they soon come.
S2 (13:38):
I mean, I feel like it's a much better thing
than if the puppy was, like, trying to walk around
and walk on them and bark and things, so, you know.
S3 (13:47):
Yeah. Look, I think if they're in a comfortable spot
and it's dark and and they're relaxed, then they will
just fall asleep and I fall asleep anyway. Public transport
is great for them to rock them to sleep because
of that momentum that you have on trains and trams. Um,
and theatre is sort of similar, but when they get
too relaxed and the snoring starts, and even if they
(14:09):
start kicking and they might get a bit of a
whimper because they're having a dream. But 99% of people
take it in good faith and think it's cute.
S2 (14:19):
And if it's a if it's a loud enough show,
they won't know. Um, I think you obviously were kind
of quite unlucky to be quite exposed then, but I
was at a comedy show last week and yeah, the
woman started talking about her dog, and you know how
hard it was to have a puppy. And I kind
of wondered if he. She'd realised that the whole time
there was a nine month old Labrador puppy in her audience.
(14:40):
I'm not sure.
S3 (14:42):
No. Well, most, unless you pointed out, most people don't realise, um,
if a dog gets a bit distracted or if the
dog needs to go to the toilet so they'll, they'll
start to get a bit active, then, um, it's pretty obvious,
but you just make your way out of the theatre,
discreetly let the dog go to the toilet and come back.
Or if they're small enough, you can put them on
(15:02):
your lap and they'll settle quite, quite comfortably till the
end of the show. I think the ultimate test, which, um,
every puppy's passed so far is there's a RSL club
in Saint Kilda, and they have live rock bands quite often,
and when the performance is finished, everybody stands up and
(15:27):
stomps their feet for an encore. And the RSL, it's insecure,
has a timber floor, so the whole floor will shake
and it's quite loud, with people clomping on the floor
for an encore from the band. And, um, the dogs
definitely wake up, put their heads up, look around and
see what's going on and think, mm, it's noisy, but yeah,
(15:51):
nothing happening here. So they just stay where they are and,
and are quite happy to just, um, observe.
S2 (15:58):
Wow.
S3 (15:59):
Music doesn't bother them at all.
S5 (16:01):
I was gonna say I wondered.
S2 (16:02):
If they'd think it was like a, you know, an
earthquake or something.
S3 (16:06):
Well, to me, it feels like an earthquake.
S5 (16:09):
Yeah.
S3 (16:10):
But the dogs, it doesn't seem to overly worry them.
I mean, they'll certainly wake up and they'll be looking around,
but they don't get up and say, I want to
run away or get out or whatever. Um, even the
there's a, um, a bar where dancers come on and
perform and so on. And, um, it's called the piano
(16:32):
bar if anybody's familiar with it. And, um, I'm sitting
on a bench seat and unbeknown to me, there was
a milk, an empty milk crate underneath the bench seat
and a puppy who was only about four months old,
found his way into the milk crate and curled up
and snored away.
S2 (16:50):
Oh, that's so.
S3 (16:51):
Cute. There's a performance going on, you know, loud music
and flashing lights and sparklers and all of that. It's
not a problem.
S5 (17:01):
It's like I'm comfortable.
S3 (17:04):
Yeah, it's surprising how tolerant they are, actually.
S5 (17:07):
Yeah. So what are some of your favorite.
S2 (17:10):
Things about caring?
S3 (17:13):
My favorite thing. And for me, what gives me the
reward is seeing and hearing from clients. Um, it's not
for me. It's not unusual to be walking down the
street or going going to a live theater show and
having somebody call out my my name in the distance,
(17:36):
and it will be a client who I'm not sure
how yet. Um, might be my deodorant, but they they
can sense my presence and they will call out and
I'll turn around and they'll be there with their puppy
and and we'll have a good chat. But to be
able to see the clients out and about in the community,
(17:56):
having their independence and pursuing whatever they they choose to
do in, in life is the ultimate reward. For me.
It makes up in spades for the sadness you feel
when when you hand the dog back, when it's 12
to 14 months old. Um, and certainly you miss the dog,
(18:20):
but for me, shopping in the supermarket and having somebody
come in and the dog come up and sniff my
back pocket because that's where the treats are, more than
makes up for it. The clients are just so happy
and so joyous. Really makes a huge difference.
S2 (18:34):
And when you've had so many pups and given them away,
even when you know not necessarily every one of yours
has gone on to do that, you can then like
kind of see or imagine the rest of them are
all doing the same thing. You know, it's like, yeah.
S3 (18:47):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. There's a couple of my pups have, um,
a couple of my pups have had health issues and
gone on to loving families. Um, and one of those
families still keeps in touch. There are a couple that
have gone on to be PTSD Dogs. Um, one that
I'm still in touch with is in South Australia. And then,
(19:10):
of course, it's the dogs that graduate and are working and,
and I have, uh, three clients that keep in touch
and let me know what what the pups are up to,
what they've learnt. And invariably a happy birthday every year
on their anniversary. So that's great. And there's some of
the things that the pups learn beyond what we train
(19:30):
them to do. To me, it's absolutely mind boggling. It's
one of my puppies who's in Western Australia will go
to church every Sunday with the client, and after a
few visits, the pup now accompanies the client up to
the altar, puts his paw up on the altar. The
client has the wine and the bread. As soon as
(19:51):
the bread has been taken and the pup takes it
back to his seat, and he will repeat that every week,
always just up to the altar, and puts his paw
up on there and waits, which is rather cute.
S2 (20:02):
And like you said, one of those things that has
not been trained. He just kind of worked that out,
that this was a specific thing to target.
S3 (20:08):
Yes. Yeah. The dog targets it. And the the client
had no idea the dog was doing this until one
of the other parishioners said, you know, do you know
that your dog does this every week when you go
up to the altar to receive? And, um, yeah, the
client had no idea. So she couldn't wait to, um,
get in touch with me and let me know. This
(20:30):
is what the dog does. So they're quite amazing. So.
And even there's another client in Cairns who goes swimming
every morning, and the pup goes swimming with her. Just
paddles along beside her up and down the pool. And
she knows when she gets to the wall or the
end of the pool, because the pup will turn around
and start to push into the side of her, like
(20:52):
to to try and cut her off before she hits
the wall. And when she feels the pup pushing her
in the side, she'll turn around and go down to
the other end. Get out and the pup climbs out
and they're all happy.
S2 (21:03):
So the dogs also guiding her in the pool as well?
S3 (21:07):
Crudely, yes.
S2 (21:08):
Kind of.
S3 (21:10):
They're very, um, intuitive in that respect.
S2 (21:14):
And do you have any other kind of favorite stories, um,
that you would like to share as well of your time? Caring.
S3 (21:22):
Well, I must say, recently I lost one of my
toy poodles, and the remaining toy poodle lyric stood up
and looked after this dog. Slept with him, would not
let him out of the sight if the poodle went outside.
Lyric would go to the sliding door and look and
just keep staring at the dog till it came back inside,
(21:44):
through the little doggie flap.
S2 (21:46):
Oh.
S3 (21:46):
And we'd go up to him, nuzzle him, the king
and so on. Lyric also was during the school year,
going to TAFE once a week to, um, attend the
community engagement class or module that that TAFE run. So
he would join the students and go out on field
trips and so on as part of their community engagement classes.
(22:10):
So we did do a couple of presentations at the
local TAFE about puppy raising and puppy caring. Another trick
lyric became expert at finding seats. Whether I went to
a cafe, train, tram or whatever. Lyric would get on
march down the aisle or in a cafe, walk around
the tables till he found an empty seat and he
(22:31):
would just go under the seat. Frustrating bit for me
is that lyric would pick the seat, go under it,
quite happy, but occasionally he'd pick a seat that had
somebody else in the seat. He wouldn't get under the person.
He'd get under the empty seat next to them. And
I'm going, I've got a whole train carriage full of
empty seats, and you pick the one seat that's got
(22:53):
a person on it. I don't want to sit next
to a person. I want to go down and have
an empty seat. So. So I would, um, call him
and he'd he come out and go further down the
carriage to the next NPC. But, um, that wasn't something
I specifically tasked him to do. It's just, uh, it
(23:13):
became a habit. You get on the train, you find
a seat, you go underneath. So you thought, I'll take
the shortcut. I'll find my own seat.
S2 (23:20):
Wow. I think that's quite impressive. I mean, like, he
hasn't been trained to do it. He's just kind of
decided that this is what he has to do, and
he's got his own kind of natural guiding lyric.
S3 (23:31):
Lyric wasn't alone in doing that. Quite a few of
the puppies I've had did pick up and start doing that.
So I think that the frequency I start taking dogs
on public transport and to cafes and restaurants and so
on when they're eight weeks old. So I start very,
very early. So they do have a lot of exposure
to it. I think after a lot of repetition they
(23:53):
pick up on the routine.
S2 (23:55):
Mhm. It's quite amazing regardless kind of that like oh
I now I've clocked it together. You go through a
lot of time with dogs. Small pet dogs, I think
than than seeing eye dogs thinking, you know, they're not
thinking too much about things, if that makes sense. But
they are really considering what tends to happen and teaching
(24:16):
themselves things, which is quite impressive, I think.
S3 (24:19):
And when they're very young, they're like sponges. I sort
of try and imagine that you get your 8 to
10 week old puppy and you take them away from
the puppy centre. So it's their first adventure into the
great wide world. And here we are, out in the
great wide world, and all of a sudden, lots of
strange people, lots of strange places, and they're all taking
(24:40):
it in and absorbing it. And after a while, routines
develop and it becomes a normal part of their world.
S2 (24:50):
You know, I think it's really easy to under or
overestimate their intelligence, um, or underestimate, to be fair and just. Yeah,
the things that they kind of surprise you with are
just quite mind blowing.
S3 (25:00):
Absolutely, absolutely. And look, it can be complex tasks or
it can be something as simple as when you are
walking down the street and the dog goes one side
of a power pole and you go on the other,
and the dog will have amazing problem solving skills. I'll
only do that 2 or 3 times and they'll soon
(25:20):
work out. Now I've got to go on the same
side of the power pole as you, and it just
seems to be part of the natural ability to to
learn and problem solve. So, I mean, you could apply
that to numerous situations. But yeah, that's a basic example.
They they're quite astute.
S2 (25:41):
And so for anyone that's considering puppy caring or just
the general public, do you have any messages that you
would like to share just to finish off?
S3 (25:51):
Oh look, I, I, I absolutely love puppy caring and
and training the pups. It's a lot of fun, a
lot of adventure. There's a lot of pros Prose as well.
Nine times out of ten, when I'm going to a
large theater. One of the ushers will come out. When
they see the puppy, they'll come out and say, don't
(26:12):
wait in the queue. Just come in the VIP entrance
and then we'll take you straight through. So there's a
lot of pros about it, but as far as I'm,
there's no excuse for not having having a puppy. They
can live in houses, they can live in apartments. They
can live in the country, in the city. They adapt
very easily and it's extremely rewarding. And honestly, it doesn't
(26:35):
take a lot of your time to me, taking a
puppy out with me wherever I happen to be going
is no different to putting my wallet in the back
pocket of my trousers. Um, and the rewards and and
the support that you get along the way as well.
The rewards are tremendous.
S2 (26:55):
I think lyric is probably one of the bigger, hairier
wallets that you've had. Yes, but.
S3 (27:02):
But I have had golden retrievers, so they're even hairier.
But I've come to, I suppose, adjust if it. If
it's moulting season, then that's fine. We'll go out in
the backyard and scruff your coat up and get all
the loose hair out. So it's not a problem. It's.
And it doesn't take very long. It's a minor a
(27:25):
minor task, especially compared to the to the rewards you
get from doing it. And then for me personally, being
able to associate with clients and see the huge difference that,
that it makes to their life. It's beyond words.
S2 (27:44):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
today and sharing your story. And for all of the
work that you've done for so many years raising puppies.
S3 (27:52):
No, it's it's, um, it's my pleasure. It's a privilege
to be able to do it.
S2 (28:02):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
Steve Kroeger. Seeing eye dogs, puppy and relief care volunteer.
If you'd like to find out more about seeing Eye dogs,
the work we do, or how you can help, head
to our website at. If you'd like to find out
(28:22):
about puppy caring, that website is the same and we've
got lots of information sessions. You can learn more about
Puppy Caring. Head to that website at. To find out
more about puppy caring. Or you can give our team
a ring on 1800Â 037Â 773 to find out about puppy caring.
(28:45):
If you'd like to find more episodes of this and
other Great Vision Australia radio shows, head to your preferred
podcast platform or our Omni FM. Thank you for listening
and have a lovely week.
On Vision Australia Radio. You're listening to the Seeing Eye
dog show with me, your host, Harriet Moffat. Today I
am joined by seeing Eye Dogs, puppy and Foster care
volunteer and Vision Australia volunteer Steven Kroger. Steve is going
to talk to us about his life and his story
as a volunteer, and we're going to have a bit
(00:41):
of an insight into some of the things that are puppies,
like his most recent puppy lyric, get up to with
their volunteer puppy carers. If you're interested in becoming a
puppy carer. We're looking for volunteers now, and this interview
is a great way to find out a little bit
about what it's like. I hope you enjoy this interview.
S2 (01:08):
Hi Steve, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S3 (01:11):
It's a pleasure to be here.
S2 (01:13):
So could you please start off by introducing yourself?
S3 (01:16):
Sure. My name's Stephen Kroger. I'm retired, married to Margaret
or Meg for short, who also happens to be a
Vision Australia volunteer for the audio describing team. My interests
are in cooking, going to the theatre, traveling locally and international,
and I also have a bit of a reputation for
(01:36):
reviewing parmesan cheese.
S2 (01:39):
How many Palmers do you think that you've roughly, you know,
reviewed in your time?
S3 (01:44):
Ah, it would have to be a couple of hundred.
Every time I go to a pub, I always order
a parmigiana. And then I will give it a review
based on, you know, whether they put the chips underneath
the Palmer so they get soggy or they have a
salad and there's that much dressing. It makes the crumbs
on the Palmer go soggy. Um, and various other aspects.
(02:06):
So I have a rating system and, and I have
a following on Facebook that, um, check them out.
S2 (02:14):
Wow. So are there any, like, you know, big favorites
that you've got in the time that you feel like
the audience should know about?
S3 (02:21):
Uh, probably one of my favorites. I've been back a
couple of times. It's the Metropolitan Hotel in North Melbourne.
S2 (02:29):
Mhm.
S3 (02:29):
That that is my like it's a nine out of
ten and it didn't get ten because I like to
leave a bit of room for something better. Although I
haven't found it yet.
S2 (02:41):
Interesting. I wonder what it would take to get that ten.
S3 (02:44):
Then I would have to be pretty spectacular.
S2 (02:50):
Some sort of like fancy chicken and, you know, some
sort of like super, super fancy imported cheese as well.
S3 (02:58):
Probably. Um, another one I really liked was a Palmer
that it had, um, turkey.
S2 (03:05):
Um.
S3 (03:06):
Chicken with cranberry sauce instead of the normal, normal sauce.
And that was actually very nice too.
S2 (03:13):
Interesting. I mean, that one is a bit more rogue.
Whereas I think being a being a vegetarian, I think
you get the option of like a mock meat type
of thing or a, an eggplant type of thing. And it's,
it's a bit dire out there, I think.
S3 (03:25):
Yeah. Um, the vegetarian version, some of them are very
well done and there's others that are just yuck.
S2 (03:33):
Yeah. A poor excuse for a dish.
S3 (03:36):
Absolutely.
S2 (03:37):
So what is your volunteer role at seeing eye dogs,
and how long have you been volunteering?
S3 (03:43):
Well, I started volunteering, um, in 2018, so I'm currently
a puppy carer and. And foster carer. I do occasionally
foster care for working dogs when clients need to to
go away or go to hospital for a procedure or something.
I originally started in 2018, as I said, working as
(04:07):
a client technology support volunteer, which involved helping clients with
with any type of technology, whether it be the old
fashioned daisy players, which were book readers or general readers
for for reading letters and newspapers and so on, or
talking scales and talking watches and so on. Just showing
(04:28):
the client how to use them and providing the client
with support. And um, from that point, I volunteered to
become a foster carer of puppies and then a full
time puppy carer, as most of the clients in my
area that I was supporting, which is about 17. Wow. Um,
(04:49):
most of them were on the wait list for a puppy,
but back then you were waiting for two plus years
for a puppy. So I thought, well, there's something I
can do about this.
S2 (04:58):
Oh, they were in for a for a working dog.
S3 (05:00):
Yes. So I, I still see quite a few of
those clients. And it can be anything from helping them
upgrade their computer or all going around to their house
when puppy food gets delivered for their working dog and
taking it into the house for them, because invariably it
gets left on their front doorstep and it's a bit
(05:21):
heavy for them to carry.
S4 (05:24):
So what made you decide.
S2 (05:26):
To become a puppy carer or even start volunteering at
Vision Australia?
S3 (05:32):
Well, I originally I, I did decide to retire early
and it was always on my retirement plan to do
something for my local community. Before I retired, I was
volunteering for Vision Australia and I used to also go
to numerous community gatherings where the clients would all come
(05:54):
down to our local Vision Australia office, and they would
have morning teas and guests would come along and give
talks and so on. And that led me to being
more in the technology support area quite a few years ago.
Every time your phone or your TV or your computer updated,
the position of buttons would move and functions would change.
Most updates don't come with a manual, so it would
(06:17):
be a matter of showing the clients, um, what they
needed needed to do or the changes. So in their,
in their, um, devices. And um, I then thought, well,
I'll become a foster carer and after having two dogs
as foster care, then I became a full time carer. Um,
(06:39):
I still go down to the local Vision Australia office
with my puppy, which the clients love and um, just
enjoy their company and they enjoy the puppies company.
S4 (06:51):
And can you tell us about.
S2 (06:52):
Your most recent puppy, please?
S3 (06:56):
Wow. My most recent pup is Lyric Lyrics, one of
four in the litter. The only boy. He's a chocolate lab,
the only chocolate in the litter as well. And he
is grown to be a 36 kilo.
S4 (07:12):
Wow.
S3 (07:13):
He's very affectionate. A little bit too much. Truth be told,
he does not like being out of sight of you. But, um,
he's always looking for for cuddles and to play and
so on. Uh, lyric lived with two toy poodles who
were known as Harry and Jack and, um in lyrics
(07:38):
time with me. He was also babysitting foster pups, as
in Georgia, Kitt, Bada and Yuri.
S2 (07:46):
Would have had quite a full house then.
S3 (07:49):
Yeah, yeah, I've I've had, um. Sometimes when friends go away,
I look after their dogs, so I've, I've got a
foster dog lyric two of my own and a couple
of friends dogs. And that's 6 or 7 dogs around
the house.
S2 (08:02):
Wow.
S3 (08:03):
They all get on, all get on famously, and they
all compete for attention, which can be quite funny at times.
S2 (08:12):
And I can imagine that despite the fact that lyric
is 36 kilos, I can imagine that he wasn't necessarily
always the big boss boss dog.
S3 (08:22):
No, no, the the two poodles rule the roost.
S4 (08:27):
Yeah.
S3 (08:28):
And the time lyric came up until the day he left.
The poodles are in charge and lyric does what they say.
If they walk up to his food bowl and want
to take some kibble, he stand back and stands back
and lets them.
S4 (08:42):
Yeah. Okay. Okay. It's fine. Yeah.
S3 (08:45):
No, um. He'll stand back and watch them eat when
they disappear and they're out of sight. He might go
do the dishes, but, um, they're definitely the boss. And
and lyric complies with what their wishes are. Um. And
even the, um, the youngest of the puppies. Who's Jack
(09:06):
when Jack decides he wants to go into lyrics crate
and have a nap, and that's absolutely fine. Jack owns
the crate while he's there.
S2 (09:15):
Well, I mean, it sounds like lyrics got quite kind
of gentle personality for such a big lad. What kind
of current stage is he at now with his training?
S3 (09:25):
Um, he he's currently being assessed as a breeder. So
he went in last week and he's got to go
through the temperament and, and basic medical checks to, um,
see if he's got what it takes to be a breeder.
S2 (09:42):
Oh. Very exciting. Well, my fingers are crossed for Mr. Lyric.
S3 (09:46):
Yeah. Look, I think he'd be a great dog. If
he knows somebody really well, he can be a little
bit full on as he he'll. He'll come along and
nudge you. And, you know, I want a pet. So
I'm going to turn around and rub my body on
your thigh. Or he's got used to treats being in
people's back pockets. So he'll give you a bump with
his nose if he thinks it's time for a treat.
(10:08):
But with strangers he would generally just sit back. His
favorite position is to sit on my foot and, um,
wag his tail and look up at people with that
look in his eye that says, you know, please pat me.
S2 (10:22):
Oh, and how many puppies have you had in total?
S3 (10:26):
I've had nine full time pups and about 35 foster pups.
S2 (10:32):
Wow.
S3 (10:33):
Over my 9 to 10 years. Yeah, I've had a
couple of, um, working dogs that I've fostered as well
for clients.
S2 (10:41):
Do you feel like you've kind of had no too,
with that of the same type of vibe in that
large number?
S3 (10:46):
Every single one is different. Everyone is different, without exception. Um,
they've all got a fantastic character. They're very laid back. Um.
Very get to say FOMO. But they they like to
be around. They like to know what's happening. They're not
(11:09):
really content with being by themselves and entertaining themselves. They
really like to know what you're doing. They're very comfortable
sleeping under the desk when you're working or going for
walks around the shops and so on. Sometimes they might
get a little bit cheeky and and think, I need
to go and investigate some strange smell or something, but
(11:32):
they normally come back into line pretty quick. Yeah, I
have a regular routine with the pups. Supermarkets are within
walking distance from my place, so I'll have a dog
in my left hand and a shopping bag in my
right hand, and I can only buy what fits in
the shopping bag. So three times a week we go
to the supermarket or go to cafes for time 4
(11:55):
or 5 times a week, restaurants a couple of times
a week. We go to an aged care home once
a week where the clients absolutely adore having a puppy
come in. Um, we would go Train to Melbourne once
a fortnight. Movies and live. Live theatre. Um, as well
as as friends and family. And tell you a funny story.
(12:17):
We went to the live theatre at the Sumner Theatre
in Southbank, and puppy decided to fall asleep and snore
extremely loudly, to the point where the actors on the
stage could hear the dog snoring.
S2 (12:33):
Wow.
S3 (12:35):
Are looking around and looking around. It was a comedy show,
so part of the act was the, um, the comedians
that were on the stage would pick out an audience
member and tease them. So it was a perfect opportunity
for the comedian that was on the stage, but he
could not locate who was asleep and snoring. And so
(12:58):
everybody is sort of looking in my direction and I'm
looking over my shoulder pretending it's not me. So. And
the comedian got through the show, and at the end
of the show, he went out into the foyer to
try and sell some merchandise, and out we walk the
dog and as soon as he saw the dog, he
he realized.
S2 (13:16):
What I see.
S3 (13:18):
So the puppy ended up, um, in the in the
comedian's arms, with some shots taken that were used as
a bit of a promotion for his show.
S2 (13:29):
Ah. How funny.
S3 (13:31):
So yeah, there's many stories like that. Some people get
very annoyed when the dogs snoring next to them too,
but they soon come.
S2 (13:38):
I mean, I feel like it's a much better thing
than if the puppy was, like, trying to walk around
and walk on them and bark and things, so, you know.
S3 (13:47):
Yeah. Look, I think if they're in a comfortable spot
and it's dark and and they're relaxed, then they will
just fall asleep and I fall asleep anyway. Public transport
is great for them to rock them to sleep because
of that momentum that you have on trains and trams. Um,
and theatre is sort of similar, but when they get
too relaxed and the snoring starts, and even if they
(14:09):
start kicking and they might get a bit of a
whimper because they're having a dream. But 99% of people
take it in good faith and think it's cute.
S2 (14:19):
And if it's a if it's a loud enough show,
they won't know. Um, I think you obviously were kind
of quite unlucky to be quite exposed then, but I
was at a comedy show last week and yeah, the
woman started talking about her dog, and you know how
hard it was to have a puppy. And I kind
of wondered if he. She'd realised that the whole time
there was a nine month old Labrador puppy in her audience.
(14:40):
I'm not sure.
S3 (14:42):
No. Well, most, unless you pointed out, most people don't realise, um,
if a dog gets a bit distracted or if the
dog needs to go to the toilet so they'll, they'll
start to get a bit active, then, um, it's pretty obvious,
but you just make your way out of the theatre,
discreetly let the dog go to the toilet and come back.
Or if they're small enough, you can put them on
(15:02):
your lap and they'll settle quite, quite comfortably till the
end of the show. I think the ultimate test, which, um,
every puppy's passed so far is there's a RSL club
in Saint Kilda, and they have live rock bands quite often,
and when the performance is finished, everybody stands up and
(15:27):
stomps their feet for an encore. And the RSL, it's insecure,
has a timber floor, so the whole floor will shake
and it's quite loud, with people clomping on the floor
for an encore from the band. And, um, the dogs
definitely wake up, put their heads up, look around and
see what's going on and think, mm, it's noisy, but yeah,
(15:51):
nothing happening here. So they just stay where they are and,
and are quite happy to just, um, observe.
S2 (15:58):
Wow.
S3 (15:59):
Music doesn't bother them at all.
S5 (16:01):
I was gonna say I wondered.
S2 (16:02):
If they'd think it was like a, you know, an
earthquake or something.
S3 (16:06):
Well, to me, it feels like an earthquake.
S5 (16:09):
Yeah.
S3 (16:10):
But the dogs, it doesn't seem to overly worry them.
I mean, they'll certainly wake up and they'll be looking around,
but they don't get up and say, I want to
run away or get out or whatever. Um, even the
there's a, um, a bar where dancers come on and
perform and so on. And, um, it's called the piano
(16:32):
bar if anybody's familiar with it. And, um, I'm sitting
on a bench seat and unbeknown to me, there was
a milk, an empty milk crate underneath the bench seat
and a puppy who was only about four months old,
found his way into the milk crate and curled up
and snored away.
S2 (16:50):
Oh, that's so.
S3 (16:51):
Cute. There's a performance going on, you know, loud music
and flashing lights and sparklers and all of that. It's
not a problem.
S5 (17:01):
It's like I'm comfortable.
S3 (17:04):
Yeah, it's surprising how tolerant they are, actually.
S5 (17:07):
Yeah. So what are some of your favorite.
S2 (17:10):
Things about caring?
S3 (17:13):
My favorite thing. And for me, what gives me the
reward is seeing and hearing from clients. Um, it's not
for me. It's not unusual to be walking down the
street or going going to a live theater show and
having somebody call out my my name in the distance,
(17:36):
and it will be a client who I'm not sure
how yet. Um, might be my deodorant, but they they
can sense my presence and they will call out and
I'll turn around and they'll be there with their puppy
and and we'll have a good chat. But to be
able to see the clients out and about in the community,
(17:56):
having their independence and pursuing whatever they they choose to
do in, in life is the ultimate reward. For me.
It makes up in spades for the sadness you feel
when when you hand the dog back, when it's 12
to 14 months old. Um, and certainly you miss the dog,
(18:20):
but for me, shopping in the supermarket and having somebody
come in and the dog come up and sniff my
back pocket because that's where the treats are, more than
makes up for it. The clients are just so happy
and so joyous. Really makes a huge difference.
S2 (18:34):
And when you've had so many pups and given them away,
even when you know not necessarily every one of yours
has gone on to do that, you can then like
kind of see or imagine the rest of them are
all doing the same thing. You know, it's like, yeah.
S3 (18:47):
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. There's a couple of my pups have, um,
a couple of my pups have had health issues and
gone on to loving families. Um, and one of those
families still keeps in touch. There are a couple that
have gone on to be PTSD Dogs. Um, one that
I'm still in touch with is in South Australia. And then,
(19:10):
of course, it's the dogs that graduate and are working and,
and I have, uh, three clients that keep in touch
and let me know what what the pups are up to,
what they've learnt. And invariably a happy birthday every year
on their anniversary. So that's great. And there's some of
the things that the pups learn beyond what we train
(19:30):
them to do. To me, it's absolutely mind boggling. It's
one of my puppies who's in Western Australia will go
to church every Sunday with the client, and after a
few visits, the pup now accompanies the client up to
the altar, puts his paw up on the altar. The
client has the wine and the bread. As soon as
(19:51):
the bread has been taken and the pup takes it
back to his seat, and he will repeat that every week,
always just up to the altar, and puts his paw
up on there and waits, which is rather cute.
S2 (20:02):
And like you said, one of those things that has
not been trained. He just kind of worked that out,
that this was a specific thing to target.
S3 (20:08):
Yes. Yeah. The dog targets it. And the the client
had no idea the dog was doing this until one
of the other parishioners said, you know, do you know
that your dog does this every week when you go
up to the altar to receive? And, um, yeah, the
client had no idea. So she couldn't wait to, um,
get in touch with me and let me know. This
(20:30):
is what the dog does. So they're quite amazing. So.
And even there's another client in Cairns who goes swimming
every morning, and the pup goes swimming with her. Just
paddles along beside her up and down the pool. And
she knows when she gets to the wall or the
end of the pool, because the pup will turn around
and start to push into the side of her, like
(20:52):
to to try and cut her off before she hits
the wall. And when she feels the pup pushing her
in the side, she'll turn around and go down to
the other end. Get out and the pup climbs out
and they're all happy.
S2 (21:03):
So the dogs also guiding her in the pool as well?
S3 (21:07):
Crudely, yes.
S2 (21:08):
Kind of.
S3 (21:10):
They're very, um, intuitive in that respect.
S2 (21:14):
And do you have any other kind of favorite stories, um,
that you would like to share as well of your time? Caring.
S3 (21:22):
Well, I must say, recently I lost one of my
toy poodles, and the remaining toy poodle lyric stood up
and looked after this dog. Slept with him, would not
let him out of the sight if the poodle went outside.
Lyric would go to the sliding door and look and
just keep staring at the dog till it came back inside,
(21:44):
through the little doggie flap.
S2 (21:46):
Oh.
S3 (21:46):
And we'd go up to him, nuzzle him, the king
and so on. Lyric also was during the school year,
going to TAFE once a week to, um, attend the
community engagement class or module that that TAFE run. So
he would join the students and go out on field
trips and so on as part of their community engagement classes.
(22:10):
So we did do a couple of presentations at the
local TAFE about puppy raising and puppy caring. Another trick
lyric became expert at finding seats. Whether I went to
a cafe, train, tram or whatever. Lyric would get on
march down the aisle or in a cafe, walk around
the tables till he found an empty seat and he
(22:31):
would just go under the seat. Frustrating bit for me
is that lyric would pick the seat, go under it,
quite happy, but occasionally he'd pick a seat that had
somebody else in the seat. He wouldn't get under the person.
He'd get under the empty seat next to them. And
I'm going, I've got a whole train carriage full of
empty seats, and you pick the one seat that's got
(22:53):
a person on it. I don't want to sit next
to a person. I want to go down and have
an empty seat. So. So I would, um, call him
and he'd he come out and go further down the
carriage to the next NPC. But, um, that wasn't something
I specifically tasked him to do. It's just, uh, it
(23:13):
became a habit. You get on the train, you find
a seat, you go underneath. So you thought, I'll take
the shortcut. I'll find my own seat.
S2 (23:20):
Wow. I think that's quite impressive. I mean, like, he
hasn't been trained to do it. He's just kind of
decided that this is what he has to do, and
he's got his own kind of natural guiding lyric.
S3 (23:31):
Lyric wasn't alone in doing that. Quite a few of
the puppies I've had did pick up and start doing that.
So I think that the frequency I start taking dogs
on public transport and to cafes and restaurants and so
on when they're eight weeks old. So I start very,
very early. So they do have a lot of exposure
to it. I think after a lot of repetition they
(23:53):
pick up on the routine.
S2 (23:55):
Mhm. It's quite amazing regardless kind of that like oh
I now I've clocked it together. You go through a
lot of time with dogs. Small pet dogs, I think
than than seeing eye dogs thinking, you know, they're not
thinking too much about things, if that makes sense. But
they are really considering what tends to happen and teaching
(24:16):
themselves things, which is quite impressive, I think.
S3 (24:19):
And when they're very young, they're like sponges. I sort
of try and imagine that you get your 8 to
10 week old puppy and you take them away from
the puppy centre. So it's their first adventure into the
great wide world. And here we are, out in the
great wide world, and all of a sudden, lots of
strange people, lots of strange places, and they're all taking
(24:40):
it in and absorbing it. And after a while, routines
develop and it becomes a normal part of their world.
S2 (24:50):
You know, I think it's really easy to under or
overestimate their intelligence, um, or underestimate, to be fair and just. Yeah,
the things that they kind of surprise you with are
just quite mind blowing.
S3 (25:00):
Absolutely, absolutely. And look, it can be complex tasks or
it can be something as simple as when you are
walking down the street and the dog goes one side
of a power pole and you go on the other,
and the dog will have amazing problem solving skills. I'll
only do that 2 or 3 times and they'll soon
(25:20):
work out. Now I've got to go on the same
side of the power pole as you, and it just
seems to be part of the natural ability to to
learn and problem solve. So, I mean, you could apply
that to numerous situations. But yeah, that's a basic example.
They they're quite astute.
S2 (25:41):
And so for anyone that's considering puppy caring or just
the general public, do you have any messages that you
would like to share just to finish off?
S3 (25:51):
Oh look, I, I, I absolutely love puppy caring and
and training the pups. It's a lot of fun, a
lot of adventure. There's a lot of pros Prose as well.
Nine times out of ten, when I'm going to a
large theater. One of the ushers will come out. When
they see the puppy, they'll come out and say, don't
(26:12):
wait in the queue. Just come in the VIP entrance
and then we'll take you straight through. So there's a
lot of pros about it, but as far as I'm,
there's no excuse for not having having a puppy. They
can live in houses, they can live in apartments. They
can live in the country, in the city. They adapt
very easily and it's extremely rewarding. And honestly, it doesn't
(26:35):
take a lot of your time to me, taking a
puppy out with me wherever I happen to be going
is no different to putting my wallet in the back
pocket of my trousers. Um, and the rewards and and
the support that you get along the way as well.
The rewards are tremendous.
S2 (26:55):
I think lyric is probably one of the bigger, hairier
wallets that you've had. Yes, but.
S3 (27:02):
But I have had golden retrievers, so they're even hairier.
But I've come to, I suppose, adjust if it. If
it's moulting season, then that's fine. We'll go out in
the backyard and scruff your coat up and get all
the loose hair out. So it's not a problem. It's.
And it doesn't take very long. It's a minor a
(27:25):
minor task, especially compared to the to the rewards you
get from doing it. And then for me personally, being
able to associate with clients and see the huge difference that,
that it makes to their life. It's beyond words.
S2 (27:44):
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show
today and sharing your story. And for all of the
work that you've done for so many years raising puppies.
S3 (27:52):
No, it's it's, um, it's my pleasure. It's a privilege
to be able to do it.
S2 (28:02):
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dog show on
Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with
Steve Kroeger. Seeing eye dogs, puppy and relief care volunteer.
If you'd like to find out more about seeing Eye dogs,
the work we do, or how you can help, head
to our website at. If you'd like to find out
(28:22):
about puppy caring, that website is the same and we've
got lots of information sessions. You can learn more about
Puppy Caring. Head to that website at. To find out
more about puppy caring. Or you can give our team
a ring on 1800Â 037Â 773 to find out about puppy caring.
(28:45):
If you'd like to find more episodes of this and
other Great Vision Australia radio shows, head to your preferred
podcast platform or our Omni FM. Thank you for listening
and have a lovely week.
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