July 18, 2023 • 44 mins
Married at First Sight and Celebs Go Dating relationship expert, Paul Brunson, takes us on a tour of his adopted home city of London. He spills all the details on how Oprah Winfrey changed his life, the incident that made his family decide to move to the UK, why he left finance to become a relationship expert, and his proud Jamaican heritage.
Paul was ecstatic when we matched him with a Twisted Defender for the drive to the Celebs Go Dating agency, Admiralty Arch and the Jamaica Patty Co in Covent Garden.
You can see exclusive video footage of the drive on Auto Trader’s social channels, and see the Twisted Defender for yourself.
To find your perfect match, go to www.autotrader.co.uk
Show on the Road is a Fresh Air Production for Auto Trader.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paul Brunson (00:01):
Now, there's a backstory that I want to tell you
that I often don't tell around how was it that
Oprah found me? I got a call and the call was, "
Hey, Paul, we've got this show." I said, " I've never seen
it," They said, " Well, we're looking for a host. Can
you come?" We looked at each other and my wife and
I said, " Let's just go to London." She liquidated her
(00:22):
retirement fund. She used that to invest in the business.
Alex Legouix (00:24):
She really likes you.
Paul Brunson (00:24):
I was like, " She actually does like me. Look at this."
Alex Legouix (00:31):
This is Show on the Road, brought to you by
Auto Trader. We are driving famous faces on a personalized
road trip, visiting the places that help shape them and
hearing how the locations turn them into who they are
today. We've matched each celebrity with a car chosen specifically
for them. Join me, Alex Legouix, as we get this
(00:52):
Show on the Road. My guest today for he and
his family, we're flying to the UK to move here
just for three months, and they're still here now. It
turns out it was the right move. Paul Brunson has
very much cemented himself as world's most influential matchmaker. He's
been co- hosting Celebs Go Dating and Married at First
(01:14):
Sight and has most definitely made himself a very good
name in the UK. Now, he is going to show
me around London today. Taking me to some of the
haunts which have transformed a very strange city into what
is now his home. We've matched him with this 6.
(01:34):
2 liter V8 Twisted Defender. It's been Paul's dream car
since he was little, apparently. In fact, he even has
a Lego figure of it, so I'm very excited to
see what he makes of the real thing. Here we go.
Paul Brunson (01:53):
It definitely sounds good. Look at it. Can I say,
I've never been in one of these?
Alex Legouix (02:04):
No.
Paul Brunson (02:05):
No, no. I've never been in one. Oh my God. Let me
take this in for a second, and you've got the
soft top?
Alex Legouix (02:09):
Isn't it hot?
Paul Brunson (02:10):
Oh my God, this is incredible.
Alex Legouix (02:12):
How do you manage to work with doorale?
Paul Brunson (02:12):
Oh, you saw that? I had to look at that like, please, I hope I can
open this door. All right, let me see. Wow, this
is so... Have you driven one of these before?
Alex Legouix (02:23):
No.
Paul Brunson (02:24):
Yeah, I love this.
Alex Legouix (02:26):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (02:26):
This is like industrial. Ah, man, this is so incredible. Can I
have this?
Alex Legouix (02:31):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (02:32):
Do I get this at the end?
Alex Legouix (02:33):
Yeah, but we get to share it.
Paul Brunson (02:34):
Okay. We can share it. Do you want it on weekends
or weekdays?
Alex Legouix (02:39):
Weekends please.
Paul Brunson (02:40):
Okay. All right, you got it.
Alex Legouix (02:41):
What's your connection to the Defender?
Paul Brunson (02:43):
This is going to sound the dumbest story ever. I
have this Lego set.
Alex Legouix (02:50):
Right.
Paul Brunson (02:52):
It's a Defender Lego set.
Alex Legouix (02:54):
As an adult.
Paul Brunson (02:55):
As an adult.
Alex Legouix (02:58):
Okay. All right.
Paul Brunson (02:58):
No, it's something that I do with my boys. We built this Defender Lego set.
I was like, this is my car. I think growing
up in New York, we would always see the Lamborghini's and
the Ferrari's go down the street and always think that
that's the type of car that we should have. When
(03:19):
you've made it, that's what you should have. But it
wasn't until I built this Lego set where I said
to myself, " This is it."
Alex Legouix (03:27):
Is it like a prized possession sitting on the mantle piece?
Paul Brunson (03:30):
It is. It's prized.
Alex Legouix (03:31):
Is it?
Paul Brunson (03:32):
It's forest green, it sits on the mantle piece. No
one can touch it. It took us three days to
build this thing. That's what set it off. Then I
started really researching these vehicles and I love them.
Alex Legouix (03:45):
It is proper cool, isn't it?
Paul Brunson (03:46):
Yeah.
Alex Legouix (03:54):
Okay.
Paul Brunson (03:54):
We're off.
Alex Legouix (03:56):
You weren't expecting to stay in the UK, were you?
Paul Brunson (04:03):
No, not at all. Not at all. Now, I thought I
would be here in the UK for three months, to
be honest with you. Yeah, there was three months. This is in 2018,
I got a call and the call was, " Hey Paul,
we've got this show here called Celebs Go Dating." I said, "
I've never seen it." They said, " Well, we're looking for
(04:25):
a host, can you come?" I thought, " Ah, I don't
know if I can come." My wife and I had
plotted three months that we were going to go to
Jamaica, so we were going to leave the states, go to
Jamaica. It happened that the three months perfectly overlapped. We
looked at each other, my wife and I said, " Let's
just go to London." We ended up coming here. We
(04:46):
spent time filming, but then also we traveled all throughout
the UK, loved it. Went back and thought that would
be it. Two weeks later we get a call. It's like, "
Paul, the show's green lit again for another series." Just
like that. Before it had even aired, it was green
lit again for another series. The shoot date was within
(05:08):
about two months, so we decided, okay, we'll come back
again. We came back again. Said, we'll stay for another
three months, it'll be great. We'll do all the things
that we didn't do. We will eat fish and chips
because we didn't eat fish and chips. We will have
more gin because that's what everybody drinks. We stayed for
another three months, left, went back to the states for
(05:30):
about two months this time. Got another call, " Paul, it's
green lit again." Then we came back for a third
time. Then when we came back for a third time,
I then got picked up from Married at First Sight
after that. Then it's been this, Celebs Go Dating, Married
at First Sight, Celebs Go Dating, Married at First Sight.
We just decided we would stay. That was five years ago.
Alex Legouix (05:58):
In that time you've come over and there's been a global pandemic in the middle of it all.
Paul Brunson (05:59):
Oh my God. Yeah. What is interesting, the pandemic was
terrible, but the blessing in the pandemic is our family.
We got an opportunity to stay. We were staying in
basically like this hotel, so we had to stay almost
(06:19):
in the same room, which would drive people crazy. But
for us, it was a moment that I'll never forget
because our family actually gelled. We became closer as a
result of this. The pandemic. Side note, one of my
favorite coffee shops.
Alex Legouix (06:37):
Oh, this one? The Columbian Coffee Company.
Paul Brunson (06:40):
Yeah, this one right here. The Columbia Coffee Company.
Alex Legouix (06:40):
That looks cool.
Paul Brunson (06:41):
Yeah, they do fair trade coffee. I didn't even know we were
coming down here.
Alex Legouix (06:44):
This is a colorful part of town.
Paul Brunson (06:45):
This is what I love about London over New York, where I'm from. Is in London, I feel
like everyone lives together. You'll have a council estate on
one corner, and then right across the street is a
5 million pound home and they're both shopping at the
(07:08):
same grocers on the corner. In the US we're very
segregated. In New York, it's like all the Italians live
here, all the Jamaicans live in this area, and we're
separated. We're also separated socioeconomically too. But here everyone is
like... There are other cities like London, but there is
(07:31):
no London in the world. That's something that, yeah, we have
to be thankful that we could be here.
Alex Legouix (07:37):
What was little Paul like? Endearing.
Paul Brunson (07:40):
I grew up in New York and grew up in
Jamaica, Queens. It was very communal. It was basically all
Jamaicans to the point where when I grew up, I
thought America was Jamaica. Sports were very important. That's when
I got to American football. I've played American football ever
since I was little. Rugby, I think, is much more
(08:05):
brutal than American football.
Alex Legouix (08:06):
Do you think?
Paul Brunson (08:06):
Oh my god. You guys are doing it with no pads.
Alex Legouix (08:11):
Yeah, that's true.
Paul Brunson (08:11):
I played American football, played soccer, and I was blessed.
My parents were together. They stayed together. They were great
parents. I had my grandparents. I had aunts and uncles.
I had friends and family. Very loving environment. I felt
(08:31):
like I could do anything.
Alex Legouix (08:35):
When did matchmaking come into your world?
Paul Brunson (08:38):
Oh, man. Yeah, matchmaking was big Paul. My first career
was in finance. I was an investment banker of all
things. I was managing the investments for a very wealthy
Turkish family. I was doing that in, this is like
(09:02):
2007. I always just say that I'm Jamaican, so I have
10 jobs always. I'm doing that. But one of my
jobs is I had a nonprofit organization that provided tutoring
services for low income household kids. Basically kids that were
(09:25):
impoverished. We provided these services for free to these kids.
One of these summer camps, I had 100 kids in
the summer camp. One question I would ask is, when
they were registering, is how many parents live in your
household? Not one of 100 of these kids had two
parents living in their household. All of them just lived
(09:46):
with basically their mother or their grandmother or their aunt.
Very few had male figures in their household. It got
to the point where I was saying, okay, here we
are, we're tutoring them on math or science. But what
fundamentally is happening in the household, there's something missing in
the household. The counselors would joke me and they would say, "
(10:09):
Paul, why don't you just become Hitch and just hook
up all the moms? Why don't you do that?" Because
the movie Hitch had just come out. Come on. It was a great movie. I said, "
That's the worst idea. It's crazy." A year later, I'm
Hitch. Pretty much. I ended up quitting my job and
(10:30):
I doubled down and I went back to school for
social psychology and I did an apprenticeship.
Alex Legouix (10:36):
You just gave up your finance career.
Paul Brunson (10:39):
Yeah. But I gave it up because I found something
I was more passionate about. I'm definitely a dreamer. I
just moved here to London. I like moving off of
feeling. Myers- Briggs, I'm a feeler. I like just moving
(11:01):
off of how I feel and I felt alive. There's
this one quote of, don't do what you think you're
supposed to do in terms of careers, do what makes
you come alive. It just made me come alive. I
spent a year studying and then properly started matchmaking a
(11:24):
year later, unconventionally. Oprah definitely changed my life. She definitely
changed my life.
Alex Legouix (11:35):
That sentence in itself is a pretty cool one to have in
your story.
Paul Brunson (11:40):
To be able to say Oprah changed my life?
Alex Legouix (11:40):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (11:42):
Yeah. I've a lot of cool Oprah stories. But I
think the most significant one is, when I started my
matchmaking, this matchmaking business, which by the way, it wasn't
mine. My wife liquidated her retirement fund. She was working
for a law firm. She liquidated her retirement fund. She
(12:04):
used that to invest in the business.
Alex Legouix (12:09):
She really likes you.
Paul Brunson (12:09):
I was like, she actually does me, look at this. She liquidates that. She gives
the money over. I invest the money into this business
and basically a year goes by and I've really nothing
to show for it. I said, okay, what I'm going
to do is I'm going to start creating YouTube videos.
Now I know you're probably thinking what? You have a
(12:33):
little bit of money left, you're going to do YouTube
videos? I said, " No, I'm going to do YouTube videos because if I
can express myself and tell the world what it is
I'm doing, I can then convert those people into clients
for a matchmaking business." I started this YouTube series called
The Modern Day Matchmaker. You could go to YouTube right
now and you will see there's nobody who's watched this thing.
Alex Legouix (12:56):
Still?
Paul Brunson (12:57):
Still, nobody. I should just sit and watch it now.
But nobody's watched this thing. Every week we would put
out this video and it would get 11 views. I
knew my mom was watching nine times. It was like
nobody really was watching this. It was one or two people
watching. It turned out Oprah was one of the people
(13:18):
watching. She then eventually gives me a job to co-
host a television show with her. I had zero TV
experience. I never ever thought I would be on television.
She just picks me up and I co- host a
show with her. Now, there's a backstory that I want
(13:41):
to tell you that I often don't tell around how
was it that Oprah found me. Remember I said I
spent a year working on the business, didn't have anything
to show for it. That year, you know what I
was doing? I was doing free services. I was taking
on clients for free, working my ass off. Working very
(14:03):
hard for them. Sometimes I would get results, sometimes I
wouldn't. But I was always transparent with them and I
would say, " I'm going to work hard for you. I
may not get what you want, but I will work
hard for you." I did that with maybe say 30
to 40 clients over the year. It turns out, and
I didn't find this out until much later. It turns
(14:24):
out that one of the people I had offered those
free services to was a writer for O Magazine. She
then later was on Oprah's jet, on her private plane.
Oprah was talking openly about, she had an idea for
a new television show that she wanted to do around
(14:44):
love. She asks everyone on the plane, she says, " Does
anyone have any fresh voices, any new voices in relationships
or in love?" This woman says, " Yeah, have you heard
of Paul Brunson?" Oprah's like, " No, I haven't heard of
Paul Brunson." They said, " Let's go find him." They go
online to YouTube, they pull up the video, she starts
(15:06):
watching the Modern Day Matchmaker. The reason why I think
that's such an important story is because one, it goes
to show that when you are providing a service or
you're providing a product, you have to provide it at
the highest level and not seek the immediate reward or
the immediate return. I had 11 views. Oprah was one
(15:30):
of them. I didn't need to have a million views
on this video to get a project that would then
change my life.
Alex Legouix (15:37):
Yeah, that's amazing, isn't it? What year was that?
Paul Brunson (15:41):
2008 is when we launched the matchmaking business. 2008 to 2009, I
had started it. My show was on air by 2010
with Oprah. It's one of those where I think that
you always have to check back as to why are
you doing the thing? Because if you're doing the thing
(16:03):
for likes and for views, then okay, then you should
take it down because that's what you're doing it for.
But if you're doing it to inform. If you're doing
it to help transform people's thoughts, then continue to do
that, no matter if you're helping one or 1000 or
one million people.
Alex Legouix (16:20):
Yeah, I agree. Tell me more about Oprah. She watched
your YouTube video and then what?
Paul Brunson (16:29):
She watched several of the YouTube videos, and then she had-
Alex Legouix (16:33):
You were like, whoa, 12. We've reached a peak. Oh
my God, darling, come in here. Look.
Paul Brunson (16:40):
No, actually I would call up my friends. Did you
watch? No. Did you watch? No. Oh my gosh, that
means someone who doesn't know us watched the video.
Alex Legouix (16:48):
We got viral.
Paul Brunson (16:51):
Oh, man. But what happened was kind of wild because
Facebook had just really become a thing. I got an
inbox message on Facebook, I'll never forget it, from a
woman named Jennifer Duck. The message was, hey Paul, my
name is Jennifer Duck. I work for the Oprah Winfrey
(17:12):
Network. I was like, delete.
Alex Legouix (17:14):
Yes, spam. What are you trying to sell me?
Paul Brunson (17:20):
I deleted it. She said to me-
Alex Legouix (17:21):
Did you actually?
Paul Brunson (17:22):
No, for real. I deleted it. Because that was also
when people were attaching weird stuff and spamming. I deleted
it. I got another message maybe a day or two later.
Alex Legouix (17:33):
Oh my God, persistent.
Paul Brunson (17:34):
I read the whole thing. Because I thought, okay, let
me read this. I thought, I don't know, it seems like a
joke. Maybe it's one of my friends playing a joke on
me. I'm not going to let them get the best
of me. She sends me another message maybe a week
later, and it's like, Paul, this is Jennifer Duck. I
work for Oprah Winfrey. We would like to bring you
(17:55):
out to LA. We want to talk to you about
a project. I was like, all right. If you could
really do this, if this is really you, buy me
the ticket. But I messaged back, we exchanged a few
more emails, and they flew me out to LA. When
they flew me out to LA, I went to the
(18:15):
Oprah Winfrey office. Oprah Winfrey network office. I'll never forget
because they told me ahead of time Oprah would not
be in the meeting. But I knew we were in
her office. I still got there early and tried to
walk around the office. I went to this meeting and
it was with Sherry Salada, who was the co- CEO
(18:37):
of the network. On the spot, they offered me a television show.
Alex Legouix (18:42):
Oh my God.
Paul Brunson (18:42):
With Oprah, on the spot. I went back home to
DC and I was was telling my friends and family, "
Sit down. You're not going to believe this. Oprah Winfrey
just offered me a show to co- host with her."
Everyone's like, " Yeah, you're lying." It was like, " You're not
telling the truth." I was like, " No, I'm serious. This
(19:04):
is really a thing." Long story short, we started filming
at the end of the year.
Alex Legouix (19:11):
Yeah, you must've learned so much from her.
Paul Brunson (19:14):
Oh, man. Everything. Yeah. She was incredible. Also, my wife
loved her, but she has the best Oprah story, I
think, on the planet.
Alex Legouix (19:24):
Better than yours?
Paul Brunson (19:26):
At the end of filming this show, we had this
big ball and my wife came in from Washington DC
and she was going to be meeting Oprah for the
first time. She was all super excited. My wife had
this beautiful black sequence dress on for the ball. I said, "
All right, Jill, come on. We'll go into Oprah's dressing
room early. You'll meet her." Oprah has the same black-
Alex Legouix (19:49):
No, she doesn't.
Paul Brunson (19:50):
The same black dress on.
Alex Legouix (19:52):
No.
Paul Brunson (19:53):
Black sequins, the same dress. They're admiring each other's dress.
Oprah says, " All right, well we better get ready to
go." Oprah, like an auntie, " Come on, give me a
hug." Oprah and Jill hug and they try to move,
they are stuck. Their sequins has intertwined. Oprah's assistants are
(20:17):
trying to unhinge her. Bodyguards coming out, trying to unhinge.
They can't unhinge the dresses. My wife, who's super nervous
to meet Oprah, is now stuck to Oprah, and her
arm is literally on Oprah's back. She was like, " I
(20:39):
was trying to think of something to say. I didn't
know what to say." She rubs Oprah's back and says, "
Oprah, you have the softest back of anyone I've ever met in my life." I was like, "a Soft back?" She's like, " but she
does. Her back is so soft."
Alex Legouix (20:57):
Oh my God. How did they de sequin?
Paul Brunson (21:00):
They had people. Oprah has people come in one by
one, unhook. It probably took 10 minutes to do the
whole thing.
Alex Legouix (21:11):
Oh, my God. That's wild. What a great story.
Paul Brunson (21:15):
Oh, man.
Alex Legouix (21:17):
Geez.
Paul Brunson (21:19):
I know this journey we're on right now.
Alex Legouix (21:21):
Right. Because-
Paul Brunson (21:23):
I know this journey.
Alex Legouix (21:23):
Anywhere.
Paul Brunson (21:24):
I would take this journey home every day, because this
is where I used to live. You're talking about COVID.
This is where I lived.
Alex Legouix (21:31):
It's called-
Paul Brunson (21:33):
Three Quays.
Alex Legouix (21:33):
Cheval Three Quays.
Paul Brunson (21:34):
Yes. This particular place is super, super special to me
and actually super special to my family. Because not only
was it our first introduction to London and to the
UK, but because we stayed here during COVID, we literally
spent about a year-
Alex Legouix (21:56):
In one room.
Paul Brunson (22:00):
In one room. Yeah, it was serious. It was hardcore.
Alex Legouix (22:06):
It's really good that it brought you guys closer. Probably
you formed valuable memories that you may not have ever
had the chance to do if you weren't pushed together
in the same way.
Paul Brunson (22:17):
Oh, my gosh. We had a whole regimen of, okay,
we're going to wake up, we're going to do Joe
Wicks, we're going to get that done. Then what we're
going to do is we're going to read for a
little bit. Then what we're going to do is we're
going to watch a movie together. Then remember, during the
early days of COVID, you could all take a break
at a certain time? You could go outside. We'll all go
outside at a certain time.
Alex Legouix (22:37):
What does this represent to you now?
Paul Brunson (22:40):
When the book is written on my life, this is
a full chapter of my life right here. It's not
a page, it's not a paragraph. This is a full
chapter right here.
Alex Legouix (22:54):
Have there been parts of British culture, I guess, that
you've really loved and adopted?
Paul Brunson (23:00):
Yeah, I love South London. I love the diversity. The
culture of South London. Where we live is the most
diverse area with the population over one million people in
the world. There's 200 languages spoken in the area that
we are in South London. You get every bit of
culture with those languages. Everything. Wow, good play. Good play.
Alex Legouix (23:29):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (23:30):
Yeah, you get the music, you get the art, you
get the fashion, you get the food for sure. The
food is incredible. I'm obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with it.
I love it. For me, growing up in New York
where the corner shops, there are so many people, they
(23:55):
never even remembered your name. Whereas in this little village
area that we're in, everyone knows our name. I have left
my phone to be able to pay, and they're like, "
Oh, whatever. Pay me whenever." Come back whenever. Those kinds
of traditional old school, that does not exist where I'm from.
Alex Legouix (24:15):
Yeah. Wow.
Paul Brunson (24:17):
Yeah, this looks familiar.
Alex Legouix (24:18):
Looks familiar.
Paul Brunson (24:19):
Because I would go from Cheval Three Quays to right
over here. This would be the Celebs Go Dating agency.
Alex Legouix (24:32):
Which has been basically your home, right?
Paul Brunson (24:35):
Yeah. You know what's wild is, we're getting ready to
start filming. They're probably working on it right now. They
should be working on it right now.
Alex Legouix (24:45):
Are they?
Paul Brunson (24:45):
Yeah.
Alex Legouix (24:45):
What would they be doing right now?
Paul Brunson (24:50):
Well, right now they're rigging up the cameras. Because what
a lot of people also don't realize is, we don't
have a camera crew inside.
Alex Legouix (24:59):
Oh.
Paul Brunson (24:59):
Yeah, there's no camera crew inside.
Alex Legouix (25:00):
I see sort of big brother style.
Paul Brunson (25:02):
That's big brother style. We have, depends on the series,
but we have say dozens and dozens and dozens of
cameras rigged all through the agency.
Alex Legouix (25:12):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (25:13):
The moment that the celeb walks into the agency, to
the moment that they walk out, they're just being caught
on these cameras. It allows them to really forget that
there is anyone watching and step into who they actually
are. Kind of like what you're doing here.
Alex Legouix (25:31):
That's really interesting. I guess ultimately, while it's a celebrity
reality show, you still want to... Actually, it's a congruent
show, isn't it? You still want it to be real.
Paul Brunson (25:44):
Yes.
Alex Legouix (25:45):
It's not a showman, let's all be fake in front
of the cameras, right?
Paul Brunson (25:50):
We're trying to strike that balance. We're trying to strike
the, okay, the agency, this is real. What's happening in
here is 100% real. What you see in terms of
the entertainment, like with Rob Beckett on the voiceover, that's
entertaining. You get some voyeurism with them on the dates. Sure
the celebs have fun. But hopefully you get all of
(26:10):
that. That's the idea.
Alex Legouix (26:12):
That's really interesting. That is a balance that definitely is
apparent. When you very first started, was it what you
expected? Did you enjoy it instantly?
Paul Brunson (26:22):
One thing I do is, whatever project I'm on, I
don't watch that project. For Celebs Go Dating, I remember
the producer said, " Hey Paul, we want you to watch
a couple of episodes and see if this is something
that you'd like to do." I thought, I'll just do
it. Three months in London, I'll just do it. When
(26:43):
I got here, I had no idea what to expect.
I had no expectation. Therefore I wasn't disappointed because I
had no expectation. It's the same with Married at First
Sight. With Married at First Sight, UK, everyone says, " Paul,
did you watch Australia or did you watch the US version?" "
No, I don't." It's only the UK format. Celebs didn't
(27:09):
disappoint because I really didn't have the expectation.
Alex Legouix (27:13):
Did you just do the same thing with the celebrities? Because I guess it's hard
not to have preconceived ideas about certain celebrities that are
going to walk in through the door as well.
Paul Brunson (27:23):
I didn't know anyone. Even to this day, I just
found out who the cast is for this upcoming one.
I know no one. I think that's good because the
celeb walks in. I have no preconceived notion of who
they are. They're human to me.
Alex Legouix (27:45):
Yeah, that's really good. Have any surprised you? I guess
that's would be a yes for loads, right?
Paul Brunson (27:54):
Oh, man, yeah. Surprised me positively. Surprised me negatively. I
think the show surprises them quite a bit. Because I
feel, let's keep it real. They come on, they all
get checks. Some of them get big checks. Then they
(28:17):
land on a television show for probably two months, which is
good for their career. You could think, okay, just from
the business standpoint, it's a good move for some of
them. But what I don't think that they truly expect
is to be tested and to change. I think the
(28:42):
best testament to that is probably Pete Wicks. He's someone
who has, I think he's been on the show, I
think he's been on seven series by now. I think
he's been on probably two. But I think when he
first got to Celebs Go Dating, he probably thought, oh,
this is just whatever. Very quickly he realized, no, this
(29:04):
could potentially change my life. To the point where I
know the last time he was on, he had even
asked, he wanted to be on. Because he enjoyed the
experience. Therapy. Any range of therapy, whether it be a
deeper psychotherapy. Whether it be a general counseling, it is
(29:25):
beneficial. It is very helpful to express your emotions and
have someone to express those with. A lot of celebrity,
a lot of people just period, they don't have anyone
to express their emotions. You think there's real power in
expressing yourself. I think that's what the celebrities love about
(29:47):
the agency. I think that what we have to understand
is, I think that's also what's cool about creatives is
that you see that we all have pain. I think
that's the beauty. Even when it comes to television, I
think that's what makes TV characters or a cast work.
(30:10):
Is that when you can see yourself in that person.
No matter how famous that person is, that you could
still see yourself. Beyonce, one of the biggest artists in
the world. She does these little things that just make
people resonate. She's like, " Look in my purse, I've got
hot sauce in my purse." " Like, what? You're Beyonce and
(30:33):
you bringing hot sauce in your purse to the restaurant?" "
Yep, that's what I do." All of a sudden you could resonate. You
could say, now, I have never personally brought hot sauce
in my purse. But you could still resonate with that.
I think that's what makes us connect to these people,
is being able to see us in them.
Alex Legouix (30:51):
Do you think that's what has made celebs Go Dating work
so well as well? The audience can. They get to
see a different side. They get to see a vulnerable
side. They get to see that they're actual human beings
that even struggle with things like relationships. They don't have
it all. They don't have love. They don't have those
(31:11):
things that we just assume your life is amazing, whatever.
Paul Brunson (31:15):
Right. Yeah. I think that's definitely, that's the biggest part
of the success. I think that in addition to, I
always keep saying, man, Rob Beckett is the most hilarious
dude on the planet. I think a lot of it
I give him his props for. I think he does
(31:38):
a lot of it. I think the celebs, seeing how
quirky they really are. That's a lot of it. I
always say with Tom, Anna and myself, we walk a
line between reality and the real world. Because reality TV
is not the real world. We're able to keep a
(31:59):
foot in the real world and a foot in reality
and keep that line straddled. Yeah, they have so much
skill to be able to do that.
Alex Legouix (32:10):
What have you learned about yourself through it?
Paul Brunson (32:14):
Through that project?
Alex Legouix (32:14):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (32:19):
It's funny, even though I'm in reality, I don't know
if I'm the biggest fan of reality TV. But what
I am a big fan of and what keeps me
showing up on these projects is, how we teach through
the projects. Like through the cast. We're teaching vicariously through
them. I'll never forget, after my first series of Celebs
(32:43):
Go Dating, I was walking somewhere in London and this
guy walks up to me and was like, " Paul, I don't
have a father. I don't have any male role models
in my house. I appreciate what you say on Celebs
Go Dating." I realized, wow, I'm the only the nearest
thing to a male authority figure in this guy's life
(33:08):
around relationships. I have to take this role responsibly. I
have to take this very seriously. That's how I view
it. I don't view it as I'm showing up to
a reality show. I view it as, okay, I'm showing
up to counselor. I'm showing up to teach.
Alex Legouix (33:34):
How did Married at First Sight come about?
Paul Brunson (33:36):
That came about. I had done a few series of
Celebs Go Dating, and they had reached out to me
because they liked the authenticity that I brought to the
project. They could see that I was very serious about
the counseling side. I was offered the job to Marry
(33:57):
at First Sight UK. Then believe it or not, COVID is what
made Married at First Sight UK, hot.
Alex Legouix (34:03):
Really?
Paul Brunson (34:04):
Because Married at First Sight UK was, I think it
was a very powerful show the way the old format.
It was true docuseries. The couples never met. You followed
them. Then the show aired and it always had respectable
numbers on Channel four. COVID hits the channel. All channels
(34:28):
are looking for content. What the channel does is, the
channel then licenses Married at First Sight Australia. They license
Australia. Everyone watches Married at First Sight Australia in the
UK, it becomes a super hit. The production company here is like, "
Hold on for a second. We're going to make our
(34:48):
show just like this one." What we end up doing is
we end up then including dinner parties and commitment ceremonies. Format
changes that make it more like Australia. Then those tweaks
make it a massive, massive hit.
Alex Legouix (35:06):
Admiralty art.
Paul Brunson (35:07):
Oh my God. It was right here, this exact spot,
when my wife and I decided that we were going
to raise our boys in the UK and move here.
Right here. This was our first time coming into the
UK. We had just arrived Heathrow. We're coming in this
way to go to Cheval where you just took me.
Alex Legouix (35:29):
No.
Paul Brunson (35:30):
Yes. On this side of the road, right here in
this spot, there was a motorist. It was a Black
motorist. He was pulled over. Police officer pulls him over.
We're over here in this lane. When he gets pulled
over, immediately my boys grab my phone and they hold
(35:51):
it out and they start filming what's happening on this
side of the road. The driver is like, " Why are
you filming?" My boys say, and I tell him, I said, "
This is what we do. You don't do this here?"
In the US, there had been so many Black motorists that
had been killed by police that what we would do
(36:13):
is we would film to protect the motorists. My boys
are filming. The white police officer walks over to the
motorist, they exchange some words. We're wondering what is going
to happen. Then the motorist smiles. He goes like this.
Police officer high- fives him, and then they walk away.
(36:35):
Now, that's not to say I know the UK's got issues.
Every country has issues. Me driving in Washington DC, if
a police officer were to pull me over, I remember
I was pulled over in, I'll never forget this. We
had taken a road trip to Nashville, Tennessee in the
(36:56):
states. We had our two boys, but they were babies.
They're in the backseat, my wife. A police officer pulls
us over. I'll never forget. I was shaking. My hands
were sweating. I told Jill, I said, " Keep the phone
on just in case anything happens. If he tells me
(37:17):
to get out the car, make sure that you turn."
You should not in this day and age, nowhere in
the world should you live in fear of being pulled
over. You could understand when we saw that here-
Alex Legouix (37:35):
Wow. The impact.
Paul Brunson (37:37):
Yeah. It looks like we're going to stay here.
Alex Legouix (37:46):
Our final venue is Jamaica Party Company.
Paul Brunson (37:51):
Yes, man. Yes, man.
Alex Legouix (37:54):
Tell me about your Jamaican heritage.
Paul Brunson (37:56):
My mother was born within the bush in Jamaica. My
grandparents, obviously aunts, uncles, all Jamaican. I've been going to
Jamaica since I was a little boy. It is home for me.
Alex Legouix (38:13):
Really?
Paul Brunson (38:13):
Yes, it is home. I rep Jamaica strong. I love
all Jamaican food. Jamaican Patty Co is one of my
favorites because they make a high end patty. Matter of
fact, the owner, Teresa, she was just appointed an ambassador from Jamaica.
Alex Legouix (38:37):
Nice.
Paul Brunson (38:37):
Yeah, she's a cultural ambassador now.
Alex Legouix (38:40):
Oh, that's nice.
Paul Brunson (38:41):
Yeah. She's amazing. Her husband, because I go to Jamaican
Patty Co all the time. Her husband taught me about
the history of the patty, which I didn't know comes
from Cornwall.
Alex Legouix (38:52):
Does it?
Paul Brunson (38:53):
Yeah. A lot of people don't know this.
Alex Legouix (38:54):
No, I didn't know that.
Paul Brunson (38:55):
Yet. The Jamaican patty comes from, what is it in Cornwall?
Is it called the pasty or paste? Is it pasty, right?
Alex Legouix (39:01):
Pasty.
Paul Brunson (39:03):
Pastry.
Alex Legouix (39:03):
It's pasty or pastry.
Paul Brunson (39:05):
Pasty.
Alex Legouix (39:05):
Pasty.
Paul Brunson (39:06):
The Pasty. What would happen, here's the story. In Cornwall,
they were minors.
Alex Legouix (39:12):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (39:13):
Aluminum or bauxite, it was the number one natural resource
in Jamaica. The UK would send these coal miners, or
should I say these bauxite miners from Cornwall to Jamaica.
While they're mining, they needed something to eat during the
day so they'd have their pasty's. The Jamaicans got ahold
(39:36):
of it, like we get ahold of everything and remixed
it a little bit. That's what eventually became the patty.
Alex Legouix (39:42):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (39:44):
Yes. You see the JPC?
Alex Legouix (39:47):
Oh, yes.
Paul Brunson (39:48):
Yeah. No, the patty's there are phenomenal.
Alex Legouix (39:52):
You go to Jamaica a lot?
Paul Brunson (39:53):
A lot. A lot. I was just there actually now it's a while
ago, but I was there in January.
Alex Legouix (40:00):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (40:02):
At least once a year I go to Jamaica. Jamaica
in my opinion, is on a per capita basis. It
is the most influential country in the world. The reason
why I say that is because there's only roughly two
million people who live in Jamaica. There's probably another two
(40:23):
million people who live outside of Jamaica. You have four
million Jamaicans. That's not even London. But yet, anywhere you
go in the world, when you start talking about Usain
Bolt or Bob Marley, or you put on reggae music
or whatever it may be, Jamaica resonates. It resonates with
(40:45):
a smile. To the point where when sometimes when I
travel, and I did this more so about five, six
years ago, is I wouldn't say I was American. Because
sometimes you jump in a taxi, you say you're American.
It's like I say ugh. I say I'm Jamaican, and I tested the
taxi. Sometimes I'll jump in. Now I'm like, I'm from
(41:06):
the UK. Let's say I was in, where was I? I
think the last I did this, I was in Barcelona.
I jumped in and I said, "I'm from the UK." You know what the
taxi driver did? He's like, he didn't even smile. He's
like. Then I said, jumped into another one. " I'm from
America, I'm from the US." Whatever. Jump in, " I'm from Jamaica." "
(41:30):
Jamaica, man." There's a thing that comes with it.
Alex Legouix (41:38):
That's so true. Yeah.
Paul Brunson (41:40):
Why is that? Is it because of Bob Marley and the likes of or?
It's all of it. It's the sun. It's knowing the pain
that Jamaicans went through. It is the food. It's the
vibrancy of the culture. Jamaica, just like the pasty, they've
(42:01):
remixed the pasty. Everything in Jamaica is spicier.
Alex Legouix (42:06):
They've remixed life.
Paul Brunson (42:07):
They've remixed... You said it.
Alex Legouix (42:09):
Right. Okay, let's go and get a patty then.
Paul Brunson (42:12):
Can we get one? Let's do it.
Alex Legouix (42:13):
Let's do it.
Paul Brunson (42:17):
You're going to love it.
Alex Legouix (42:36):
Okay, this is exciting.
Paul Brunson (42:36):
You're going to love it. Let's eat in the car. That's a good place to eat. All right.
Alex Legouix (42:36):
Yes. I'm so excited.
Paul Brunson (42:36):
There you go. Well, hold on. You're about to pull.
Alex Legouix (42:39):
Tear it. Only because I'm wearing a white top and I'm extraordinarily clumsy.
Paul Brunson (42:44):
Oh, but you can't tear though. That's not Jamaican style.
You have to just eat it like this.
Alex Legouix (42:48):
Oh, okay.
Paul Brunson (42:48):
Okay. But you can't spill any. All right, ready?
Alex Legouix (42:55):
Okay. Yeah. Oh, really good.
Paul Brunson (42:58):
That's really good.
Alex Legouix (42:59):
I really enjoyed our chat.
Paul Brunson (43:01):
Oh, I did too. I thought it was unintrusive and
it was just like we just had a conversation, which
was cool. While driving, which I've never done before.
Alex Legouix (43:14):
Hang on. Whoa. You did not drive. I had to do that.
Paul Brunson (43:16):
But I helped you though.
Alex Legouix (43:19):
Yeah, thank you.
Paul Brunson (43:19):
No. But thank you though. This is really good.
Alex Legouix (43:19):
Thank you too.
Paul Brunson (43:19):
Yeah, really good.
Alex Legouix (43:30):
Thanks so much to Paul Brunson for not only showing
me around his adopted home city, but also treating me
to a delicious Jamaican patty. You can see exclusive footage
of the drive by heading to the Auto Trader socials.
Look at the episode page for links. You'll also be
able to see the Twisted Defender that Paul was so
thrilled to be driven in. If you are looking for a new vehicle, you
(43:53):
can find your perfect match at autotrader. co. uk. This
is a new show and I'd love you to follow
on your favorite podcast platform. Like what you hear? Rate
and review, and make sure you tell your friends so
you don't miss an episode. Show On the Road is
a fresh air production for Auto Trader.
Now, there's a backstory that I want to tell you
that I often don't tell around how was it that
Oprah found me? I got a call and the call was, "
Hey, Paul, we've got this show." I said, " I've never seen
it," They said, " Well, we're looking for a host. Can
you come?" We looked at each other and my wife and
I said, " Let's just go to London." She liquidated her
(00:22):
retirement fund. She used that to invest in the business.
Alex Legouix (00:24):
She really likes you.
Paul Brunson (00:24):
I was like, " She actually does like me. Look at this."
Alex Legouix (00:31):
This is Show on the Road, brought to you by
Auto Trader. We are driving famous faces on a personalized
road trip, visiting the places that help shape them and
hearing how the locations turn them into who they are
today. We've matched each celebrity with a car chosen specifically
for them. Join me, Alex Legouix, as we get this
(00:52):
Show on the Road. My guest today for he and
his family, we're flying to the UK to move here
just for three months, and they're still here now. It
turns out it was the right move. Paul Brunson has
very much cemented himself as world's most influential matchmaker. He's
been co- hosting Celebs Go Dating and Married at First
(01:14):
Sight and has most definitely made himself a very good
name in the UK. Now, he is going to show
me around London today. Taking me to some of the
haunts which have transformed a very strange city into what
is now his home. We've matched him with this 6.
(01:34):
2 liter V8 Twisted Defender. It's been Paul's dream car
since he was little, apparently. In fact, he even has
a Lego figure of it, so I'm very excited to
see what he makes of the real thing. Here we go.
Paul Brunson (01:53):
It definitely sounds good. Look at it. Can I say,
I've never been in one of these?
Alex Legouix (02:04):
No.
Paul Brunson (02:05):
No, no. I've never been in one. Oh my God. Let me
take this in for a second, and you've got the
soft top?
Alex Legouix (02:09):
Isn't it hot?
Paul Brunson (02:10):
Oh my God, this is incredible.
Alex Legouix (02:12):
How do you manage to work with doorale?
Paul Brunson (02:12):
Oh, you saw that? I had to look at that like, please, I hope I can
open this door. All right, let me see. Wow, this
is so... Have you driven one of these before?
Alex Legouix (02:23):
No.
Paul Brunson (02:24):
Yeah, I love this.
Alex Legouix (02:26):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (02:26):
This is like industrial. Ah, man, this is so incredible. Can I
have this?
Alex Legouix (02:31):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (02:32):
Do I get this at the end?
Alex Legouix (02:33):
Yeah, but we get to share it.
Paul Brunson (02:34):
Okay. We can share it. Do you want it on weekends
or weekdays?
Alex Legouix (02:39):
Weekends please.
Paul Brunson (02:40):
Okay. All right, you got it.
Alex Legouix (02:41):
What's your connection to the Defender?
Paul Brunson (02:43):
This is going to sound the dumbest story ever. I
have this Lego set.
Alex Legouix (02:50):
Right.
Paul Brunson (02:52):
It's a Defender Lego set.
Alex Legouix (02:54):
As an adult.
Paul Brunson (02:55):
As an adult.
Alex Legouix (02:58):
Okay. All right.
Paul Brunson (02:58):
No, it's something that I do with my boys. We built this Defender Lego set.
I was like, this is my car. I think growing
up in New York, we would always see the Lamborghini's and
the Ferrari's go down the street and always think that
that's the type of car that we should have. When
(03:19):
you've made it, that's what you should have. But it
wasn't until I built this Lego set where I said
to myself, " This is it."
Alex Legouix (03:27):
Is it like a prized possession sitting on the mantle piece?
Paul Brunson (03:30):
It is. It's prized.
Alex Legouix (03:31):
Is it?
Paul Brunson (03:32):
It's forest green, it sits on the mantle piece. No
one can touch it. It took us three days to
build this thing. That's what set it off. Then I
started really researching these vehicles and I love them.
Alex Legouix (03:45):
It is proper cool, isn't it?
Paul Brunson (03:46):
Yeah.
Alex Legouix (03:54):
Okay.
Paul Brunson (03:54):
We're off.
Alex Legouix (03:56):
You weren't expecting to stay in the UK, were you?
Paul Brunson (04:03):
No, not at all. Not at all. Now, I thought I
would be here in the UK for three months, to
be honest with you. Yeah, there was three months. This is in 2018,
I got a call and the call was, " Hey Paul,
we've got this show here called Celebs Go Dating." I said, "
I've never seen it." They said, " Well, we're looking for
(04:25):
a host, can you come?" I thought, " Ah, I don't
know if I can come." My wife and I had
plotted three months that we were going to go to
Jamaica, so we were going to leave the states, go to
Jamaica. It happened that the three months perfectly overlapped. We
looked at each other, my wife and I said, " Let's
just go to London." We ended up coming here. We
(04:46):
spent time filming, but then also we traveled all throughout
the UK, loved it. Went back and thought that would
be it. Two weeks later we get a call. It's like, "
Paul, the show's green lit again for another series." Just
like that. Before it had even aired, it was green
lit again for another series. The shoot date was within
(05:08):
about two months, so we decided, okay, we'll come back
again. We came back again. Said, we'll stay for another
three months, it'll be great. We'll do all the things
that we didn't do. We will eat fish and chips
because we didn't eat fish and chips. We will have
more gin because that's what everybody drinks. We stayed for
another three months, left, went back to the states for
(05:30):
about two months this time. Got another call, " Paul, it's
green lit again." Then we came back for a third
time. Then when we came back for a third time,
I then got picked up from Married at First Sight
after that. Then it's been this, Celebs Go Dating, Married
at First Sight, Celebs Go Dating, Married at First Sight.
We just decided we would stay. That was five years ago.
Alex Legouix (05:58):
In that time you've come over and there's been a global pandemic in the middle of it all.
Paul Brunson (05:59):
Oh my God. Yeah. What is interesting, the pandemic was
terrible, but the blessing in the pandemic is our family.
We got an opportunity to stay. We were staying in
basically like this hotel, so we had to stay almost
(06:19):
in the same room, which would drive people crazy. But
for us, it was a moment that I'll never forget
because our family actually gelled. We became closer as a
result of this. The pandemic. Side note, one of my
favorite coffee shops.
Alex Legouix (06:37):
Oh, this one? The Columbian Coffee Company.
Paul Brunson (06:40):
Yeah, this one right here. The Columbia Coffee Company.
Alex Legouix (06:40):
That looks cool.
Paul Brunson (06:41):
Yeah, they do fair trade coffee. I didn't even know we were
coming down here.
Alex Legouix (06:44):
This is a colorful part of town.
Paul Brunson (06:45):
This is what I love about London over New York, where I'm from. Is in London, I feel
like everyone lives together. You'll have a council estate on
one corner, and then right across the street is a
5 million pound home and they're both shopping at the
(07:08):
same grocers on the corner. In the US we're very
segregated. In New York, it's like all the Italians live
here, all the Jamaicans live in this area, and we're
separated. We're also separated socioeconomically too. But here everyone is
like... There are other cities like London, but there is
(07:31):
no London in the world. That's something that, yeah, we have
to be thankful that we could be here.
Alex Legouix (07:37):
What was little Paul like? Endearing.
Paul Brunson (07:40):
I grew up in New York and grew up in
Jamaica, Queens. It was very communal. It was basically all
Jamaicans to the point where when I grew up, I
thought America was Jamaica. Sports were very important. That's when
I got to American football. I've played American football ever
since I was little. Rugby, I think, is much more
(08:05):
brutal than American football.
Alex Legouix (08:06):
Do you think?
Paul Brunson (08:06):
Oh my god. You guys are doing it with no pads.
Alex Legouix (08:11):
Yeah, that's true.
Paul Brunson (08:11):
I played American football, played soccer, and I was blessed.
My parents were together. They stayed together. They were great
parents. I had my grandparents. I had aunts and uncles.
I had friends and family. Very loving environment. I felt
(08:31):
like I could do anything.
Alex Legouix (08:35):
When did matchmaking come into your world?
Paul Brunson (08:38):
Oh, man. Yeah, matchmaking was big Paul. My first career
was in finance. I was an investment banker of all
things. I was managing the investments for a very wealthy
Turkish family. I was doing that in, this is like
(09:02):
2007. I always just say that I'm Jamaican, so I have
10 jobs always. I'm doing that. But one of my
jobs is I had a nonprofit organization that provided tutoring
services for low income household kids. Basically kids that were
(09:25):
impoverished. We provided these services for free to these kids.
One of these summer camps, I had 100 kids in
the summer camp. One question I would ask is, when
they were registering, is how many parents live in your
household? Not one of 100 of these kids had two
parents living in their household. All of them just lived
(09:46):
with basically their mother or their grandmother or their aunt.
Very few had male figures in their household. It got
to the point where I was saying, okay, here we
are, we're tutoring them on math or science. But what
fundamentally is happening in the household, there's something missing in
the household. The counselors would joke me and they would say, "
(10:09):
Paul, why don't you just become Hitch and just hook
up all the moms? Why don't you do that?" Because
the movie Hitch had just come out. Come on. It was a great movie. I said, "
That's the worst idea. It's crazy." A year later, I'm
Hitch. Pretty much. I ended up quitting my job and
(10:30):
I doubled down and I went back to school for
social psychology and I did an apprenticeship.
Alex Legouix (10:36):
You just gave up your finance career.
Paul Brunson (10:39):
Yeah. But I gave it up because I found something
I was more passionate about. I'm definitely a dreamer. I
just moved here to London. I like moving off of
feeling. Myers- Briggs, I'm a feeler. I like just moving
(11:01):
off of how I feel and I felt alive. There's
this one quote of, don't do what you think you're
supposed to do in terms of careers, do what makes
you come alive. It just made me come alive. I
spent a year studying and then properly started matchmaking a
(11:24):
year later, unconventionally. Oprah definitely changed my life. She definitely
changed my life.
Alex Legouix (11:35):
That sentence in itself is a pretty cool one to have in
your story.
Paul Brunson (11:40):
To be able to say Oprah changed my life?
Alex Legouix (11:40):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (11:42):
Yeah. I've a lot of cool Oprah stories. But I
think the most significant one is, when I started my
matchmaking, this matchmaking business, which by the way, it wasn't
mine. My wife liquidated her retirement fund. She was working
for a law firm. She liquidated her retirement fund. She
(12:04):
used that to invest in the business.
Alex Legouix (12:09):
She really likes you.
Paul Brunson (12:09):
I was like, she actually does me, look at this. She liquidates that. She gives
the money over. I invest the money into this business
and basically a year goes by and I've really nothing
to show for it. I said, okay, what I'm going
to do is I'm going to start creating YouTube videos.
Now I know you're probably thinking what? You have a
(12:33):
little bit of money left, you're going to do YouTube
videos? I said, " No, I'm going to do YouTube videos because if I
can express myself and tell the world what it is
I'm doing, I can then convert those people into clients
for a matchmaking business." I started this YouTube series called
The Modern Day Matchmaker. You could go to YouTube right
now and you will see there's nobody who's watched this thing.
Alex Legouix (12:56):
Still?
Paul Brunson (12:57):
Still, nobody. I should just sit and watch it now.
But nobody's watched this thing. Every week we would put
out this video and it would get 11 views. I
knew my mom was watching nine times. It was like
nobody really was watching this. It was one or two people
watching. It turned out Oprah was one of the people
(13:18):
watching. She then eventually gives me a job to co-
host a television show with her. I had zero TV
experience. I never ever thought I would be on television.
She just picks me up and I co- host a
show with her. Now, there's a backstory that I want
(13:41):
to tell you that I often don't tell around how
was it that Oprah found me. Remember I said I
spent a year working on the business, didn't have anything
to show for it. That year, you know what I
was doing? I was doing free services. I was taking
on clients for free, working my ass off. Working very
(14:03):
hard for them. Sometimes I would get results, sometimes I
wouldn't. But I was always transparent with them and I
would say, " I'm going to work hard for you. I
may not get what you want, but I will work
hard for you." I did that with maybe say 30
to 40 clients over the year. It turns out, and
I didn't find this out until much later. It turns
(14:24):
out that one of the people I had offered those
free services to was a writer for O Magazine. She
then later was on Oprah's jet, on her private plane.
Oprah was talking openly about, she had an idea for
a new television show that she wanted to do around
(14:44):
love. She asks everyone on the plane, she says, " Does
anyone have any fresh voices, any new voices in relationships
or in love?" This woman says, " Yeah, have you heard
of Paul Brunson?" Oprah's like, " No, I haven't heard of
Paul Brunson." They said, " Let's go find him." They go
online to YouTube, they pull up the video, she starts
(15:06):
watching the Modern Day Matchmaker. The reason why I think
that's such an important story is because one, it goes
to show that when you are providing a service or
you're providing a product, you have to provide it at
the highest level and not seek the immediate reward or
the immediate return. I had 11 views. Oprah was one
(15:30):
of them. I didn't need to have a million views
on this video to get a project that would then
change my life.
Alex Legouix (15:37):
Yeah, that's amazing, isn't it? What year was that?
Paul Brunson (15:41):
2008 is when we launched the matchmaking business. 2008 to 2009, I
had started it. My show was on air by 2010
with Oprah. It's one of those where I think that
you always have to check back as to why are
you doing the thing? Because if you're doing the thing
(16:03):
for likes and for views, then okay, then you should
take it down because that's what you're doing it for.
But if you're doing it to inform. If you're doing
it to help transform people's thoughts, then continue to do
that, no matter if you're helping one or 1000 or
one million people.
Alex Legouix (16:20):
Yeah, I agree. Tell me more about Oprah. She watched
your YouTube video and then what?
Paul Brunson (16:29):
She watched several of the YouTube videos, and then she had-
Alex Legouix (16:33):
You were like, whoa, 12. We've reached a peak. Oh
my God, darling, come in here. Look.
Paul Brunson (16:40):
No, actually I would call up my friends. Did you
watch? No. Did you watch? No. Oh my gosh, that
means someone who doesn't know us watched the video.
Alex Legouix (16:48):
We got viral.
Paul Brunson (16:51):
Oh, man. But what happened was kind of wild because
Facebook had just really become a thing. I got an
inbox message on Facebook, I'll never forget it, from a
woman named Jennifer Duck. The message was, hey Paul, my
name is Jennifer Duck. I work for the Oprah Winfrey
(17:12):
Network. I was like, delete.
Alex Legouix (17:14):
Yes, spam. What are you trying to sell me?
Paul Brunson (17:20):
I deleted it. She said to me-
Alex Legouix (17:21):
Did you actually?
Paul Brunson (17:22):
No, for real. I deleted it. Because that was also
when people were attaching weird stuff and spamming. I deleted
it. I got another message maybe a day or two later.
Alex Legouix (17:33):
Oh my God, persistent.
Paul Brunson (17:34):
I read the whole thing. Because I thought, okay, let
me read this. I thought, I don't know, it seems like a
joke. Maybe it's one of my friends playing a joke on
me. I'm not going to let them get the best
of me. She sends me another message maybe a week
later, and it's like, Paul, this is Jennifer Duck. I
work for Oprah Winfrey. We would like to bring you
(17:55):
out to LA. We want to talk to you about
a project. I was like, all right. If you could
really do this, if this is really you, buy me
the ticket. But I messaged back, we exchanged a few
more emails, and they flew me out to LA. When
they flew me out to LA, I went to the
(18:15):
Oprah Winfrey office. Oprah Winfrey network office. I'll never forget
because they told me ahead of time Oprah would not
be in the meeting. But I knew we were in
her office. I still got there early and tried to
walk around the office. I went to this meeting and
it was with Sherry Salada, who was the co- CEO
(18:37):
of the network. On the spot, they offered me a television show.
Alex Legouix (18:42):
Oh my God.
Paul Brunson (18:42):
With Oprah, on the spot. I went back home to
DC and I was was telling my friends and family, "
Sit down. You're not going to believe this. Oprah Winfrey
just offered me a show to co- host with her."
Everyone's like, " Yeah, you're lying." It was like, " You're not
telling the truth." I was like, " No, I'm serious. This
(19:04):
is really a thing." Long story short, we started filming
at the end of the year.
Alex Legouix (19:11):
Yeah, you must've learned so much from her.
Paul Brunson (19:14):
Oh, man. Everything. Yeah. She was incredible. Also, my wife
loved her, but she has the best Oprah story, I
think, on the planet.
Alex Legouix (19:24):
Better than yours?
Paul Brunson (19:26):
At the end of filming this show, we had this
big ball and my wife came in from Washington DC
and she was going to be meeting Oprah for the
first time. She was all super excited. My wife had
this beautiful black sequence dress on for the ball. I said, "
All right, Jill, come on. We'll go into Oprah's dressing
room early. You'll meet her." Oprah has the same black-
Alex Legouix (19:49):
No, she doesn't.
Paul Brunson (19:50):
The same black dress on.
Alex Legouix (19:52):
No.
Paul Brunson (19:53):
Black sequins, the same dress. They're admiring each other's dress.
Oprah says, " All right, well we better get ready to
go." Oprah, like an auntie, " Come on, give me a
hug." Oprah and Jill hug and they try to move,
they are stuck. Their sequins has intertwined. Oprah's assistants are
(20:17):
trying to unhinge her. Bodyguards coming out, trying to unhinge.
They can't unhinge the dresses. My wife, who's super nervous
to meet Oprah, is now stuck to Oprah, and her
arm is literally on Oprah's back. She was like, " I
(20:39):
was trying to think of something to say. I didn't
know what to say." She rubs Oprah's back and says, "
Oprah, you have the softest back of anyone I've ever met in my life." I was like, "a Soft back?" She's like, " but she
does. Her back is so soft."
Alex Legouix (20:57):
Oh my God. How did they de sequin?
Paul Brunson (21:00):
They had people. Oprah has people come in one by
one, unhook. It probably took 10 minutes to do the
whole thing.
Alex Legouix (21:11):
Oh, my God. That's wild. What a great story.
Paul Brunson (21:15):
Oh, man.
Alex Legouix (21:17):
Geez.
Paul Brunson (21:19):
I know this journey we're on right now.
Alex Legouix (21:21):
Right. Because-
Paul Brunson (21:23):
I know this journey.
Alex Legouix (21:23):
Anywhere.
Paul Brunson (21:24):
I would take this journey home every day, because this
is where I used to live. You're talking about COVID.
This is where I lived.
Alex Legouix (21:31):
It's called-
Paul Brunson (21:33):
Three Quays.
Alex Legouix (21:33):
Cheval Three Quays.
Paul Brunson (21:34):
Yes. This particular place is super, super special to me
and actually super special to my family. Because not only
was it our first introduction to London and to the
UK, but because we stayed here during COVID, we literally
spent about a year-
Alex Legouix (21:56):
In one room.
Paul Brunson (22:00):
In one room. Yeah, it was serious. It was hardcore.
Alex Legouix (22:06):
It's really good that it brought you guys closer. Probably
you formed valuable memories that you may not have ever
had the chance to do if you weren't pushed together
in the same way.
Paul Brunson (22:17):
Oh, my gosh. We had a whole regimen of, okay,
we're going to wake up, we're going to do Joe
Wicks, we're going to get that done. Then what we're
going to do is we're going to read for a
little bit. Then what we're going to do is we're
going to watch a movie together. Then remember, during the
early days of COVID, you could all take a break
at a certain time? You could go outside. We'll all go
outside at a certain time.
Alex Legouix (22:37):
What does this represent to you now?
Paul Brunson (22:40):
When the book is written on my life, this is
a full chapter of my life right here. It's not
a page, it's not a paragraph. This is a full
chapter right here.
Alex Legouix (22:54):
Have there been parts of British culture, I guess, that
you've really loved and adopted?
Paul Brunson (23:00):
Yeah, I love South London. I love the diversity. The
culture of South London. Where we live is the most
diverse area with the population over one million people in
the world. There's 200 languages spoken in the area that
we are in South London. You get every bit of
culture with those languages. Everything. Wow, good play. Good play.
Alex Legouix (23:29):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (23:30):
Yeah, you get the music, you get the art, you
get the fashion, you get the food for sure. The
food is incredible. I'm obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with it.
I love it. For me, growing up in New York
where the corner shops, there are so many people, they
(23:55):
never even remembered your name. Whereas in this little village
area that we're in, everyone knows our name. I have left
my phone to be able to pay, and they're like, "
Oh, whatever. Pay me whenever." Come back whenever. Those kinds
of traditional old school, that does not exist where I'm from.
Alex Legouix (24:15):
Yeah. Wow.
Paul Brunson (24:17):
Yeah, this looks familiar.
Alex Legouix (24:18):
Looks familiar.
Paul Brunson (24:19):
Because I would go from Cheval Three Quays to right
over here. This would be the Celebs Go Dating agency.
Alex Legouix (24:32):
Which has been basically your home, right?
Paul Brunson (24:35):
Yeah. You know what's wild is, we're getting ready to
start filming. They're probably working on it right now. They
should be working on it right now.
Alex Legouix (24:45):
Are they?
Paul Brunson (24:45):
Yeah.
Alex Legouix (24:45):
What would they be doing right now?
Paul Brunson (24:50):
Well, right now they're rigging up the cameras. Because what
a lot of people also don't realize is, we don't
have a camera crew inside.
Alex Legouix (24:59):
Oh.
Paul Brunson (24:59):
Yeah, there's no camera crew inside.
Alex Legouix (25:00):
I see sort of big brother style.
Paul Brunson (25:02):
That's big brother style. We have, depends on the series,
but we have say dozens and dozens and dozens of
cameras rigged all through the agency.
Alex Legouix (25:12):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (25:13):
The moment that the celeb walks into the agency, to
the moment that they walk out, they're just being caught
on these cameras. It allows them to really forget that
there is anyone watching and step into who they actually
are. Kind of like what you're doing here.
Alex Legouix (25:31):
That's really interesting. I guess ultimately, while it's a celebrity
reality show, you still want to... Actually, it's a congruent
show, isn't it? You still want it to be real.
Paul Brunson (25:44):
Yes.
Alex Legouix (25:45):
It's not a showman, let's all be fake in front
of the cameras, right?
Paul Brunson (25:50):
We're trying to strike that balance. We're trying to strike
the, okay, the agency, this is real. What's happening in
here is 100% real. What you see in terms of
the entertainment, like with Rob Beckett on the voiceover, that's
entertaining. You get some voyeurism with them on the dates. Sure
the celebs have fun. But hopefully you get all of
(26:10):
that. That's the idea.
Alex Legouix (26:12):
That's really interesting. That is a balance that definitely is
apparent. When you very first started, was it what you
expected? Did you enjoy it instantly?
Paul Brunson (26:22):
One thing I do is, whatever project I'm on, I
don't watch that project. For Celebs Go Dating, I remember
the producer said, " Hey Paul, we want you to watch
a couple of episodes and see if this is something
that you'd like to do." I thought, I'll just do
it. Three months in London, I'll just do it. When
(26:43):
I got here, I had no idea what to expect.
I had no expectation. Therefore I wasn't disappointed because I
had no expectation. It's the same with Married at First
Sight. With Married at First Sight, UK, everyone says, " Paul,
did you watch Australia or did you watch the US version?" "
No, I don't." It's only the UK format. Celebs didn't
(27:09):
disappoint because I really didn't have the expectation.
Alex Legouix (27:13):
Did you just do the same thing with the celebrities? Because I guess it's hard
not to have preconceived ideas about certain celebrities that are
going to walk in through the door as well.
Paul Brunson (27:23):
I didn't know anyone. Even to this day, I just
found out who the cast is for this upcoming one.
I know no one. I think that's good because the
celeb walks in. I have no preconceived notion of who
they are. They're human to me.
Alex Legouix (27:45):
Yeah, that's really good. Have any surprised you? I guess
that's would be a yes for loads, right?
Paul Brunson (27:54):
Oh, man, yeah. Surprised me positively. Surprised me negatively. I
think the show surprises them quite a bit. Because I
feel, let's keep it real. They come on, they all
get checks. Some of them get big checks. Then they
(28:17):
land on a television show for probably two months, which is
good for their career. You could think, okay, just from
the business standpoint, it's a good move for some of
them. But what I don't think that they truly expect
is to be tested and to change. I think the
(28:42):
best testament to that is probably Pete Wicks. He's someone
who has, I think he's been on the show, I
think he's been on seven series by now. I think
he's been on probably two. But I think when he
first got to Celebs Go Dating, he probably thought, oh,
this is just whatever. Very quickly he realized, no, this
(29:04):
could potentially change my life. To the point where I
know the last time he was on, he had even
asked, he wanted to be on. Because he enjoyed the
experience. Therapy. Any range of therapy, whether it be a
deeper psychotherapy. Whether it be a general counseling, it is
(29:25):
beneficial. It is very helpful to express your emotions and
have someone to express those with. A lot of celebrity,
a lot of people just period, they don't have anyone
to express their emotions. You think there's real power in
expressing yourself. I think that's what the celebrities love about
(29:47):
the agency. I think that what we have to understand
is, I think that's also what's cool about creatives is
that you see that we all have pain. I think
that's the beauty. Even when it comes to television, I
think that's what makes TV characters or a cast work.
(30:10):
Is that when you can see yourself in that person.
No matter how famous that person is, that you could
still see yourself. Beyonce, one of the biggest artists in
the world. She does these little things that just make
people resonate. She's like, " Look in my purse, I've got
hot sauce in my purse." " Like, what? You're Beyonce and
(30:33):
you bringing hot sauce in your purse to the restaurant?" "
Yep, that's what I do." All of a sudden you could resonate. You
could say, now, I have never personally brought hot sauce
in my purse. But you could still resonate with that.
I think that's what makes us connect to these people,
is being able to see us in them.
Alex Legouix (30:51):
Do you think that's what has made celebs Go Dating work
so well as well? The audience can. They get to
see a different side. They get to see a vulnerable
side. They get to see that they're actual human beings
that even struggle with things like relationships. They don't have
it all. They don't have love. They don't have those
(31:11):
things that we just assume your life is amazing, whatever.
Paul Brunson (31:15):
Right. Yeah. I think that's definitely, that's the biggest part
of the success. I think that in addition to, I
always keep saying, man, Rob Beckett is the most hilarious
dude on the planet. I think a lot of it
I give him his props for. I think he does
(31:38):
a lot of it. I think the celebs, seeing how
quirky they really are. That's a lot of it. I
always say with Tom, Anna and myself, we walk a
line between reality and the real world. Because reality TV
is not the real world. We're able to keep a
(31:59):
foot in the real world and a foot in reality
and keep that line straddled. Yeah, they have so much
skill to be able to do that.
Alex Legouix (32:10):
What have you learned about yourself through it?
Paul Brunson (32:14):
Through that project?
Alex Legouix (32:14):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (32:19):
It's funny, even though I'm in reality, I don't know
if I'm the biggest fan of reality TV. But what
I am a big fan of and what keeps me
showing up on these projects is, how we teach through
the projects. Like through the cast. We're teaching vicariously through
them. I'll never forget, after my first series of Celebs
(32:43):
Go Dating, I was walking somewhere in London and this
guy walks up to me and was like, " Paul, I don't
have a father. I don't have any male role models
in my house. I appreciate what you say on Celebs
Go Dating." I realized, wow, I'm the only the nearest
thing to a male authority figure in this guy's life
(33:08):
around relationships. I have to take this role responsibly. I
have to take this very seriously. That's how I view
it. I don't view it as I'm showing up to
a reality show. I view it as, okay, I'm showing
up to counselor. I'm showing up to teach.
Alex Legouix (33:34):
How did Married at First Sight come about?
Paul Brunson (33:36):
That came about. I had done a few series of
Celebs Go Dating, and they had reached out to me
because they liked the authenticity that I brought to the
project. They could see that I was very serious about
the counseling side. I was offered the job to Marry
(33:57):
at First Sight UK. Then believe it or not, COVID is what
made Married at First Sight UK, hot.
Alex Legouix (34:03):
Really?
Paul Brunson (34:04):
Because Married at First Sight UK was, I think it
was a very powerful show the way the old format.
It was true docuseries. The couples never met. You followed
them. Then the show aired and it always had respectable
numbers on Channel four. COVID hits the channel. All channels
(34:28):
are looking for content. What the channel does is, the
channel then licenses Married at First Sight Australia. They license
Australia. Everyone watches Married at First Sight Australia in the
UK, it becomes a super hit. The production company here is like, "
Hold on for a second. We're going to make our
(34:48):
show just like this one." What we end up doing is
we end up then including dinner parties and commitment ceremonies. Format
changes that make it more like Australia. Then those tweaks
make it a massive, massive hit.
Alex Legouix (35:06):
Admiralty art.
Paul Brunson (35:07):
Oh my God. It was right here, this exact spot,
when my wife and I decided that we were going
to raise our boys in the UK and move here.
Right here. This was our first time coming into the
UK. We had just arrived Heathrow. We're coming in this
way to go to Cheval where you just took me.
Alex Legouix (35:29):
No.
Paul Brunson (35:30):
Yes. On this side of the road, right here in
this spot, there was a motorist. It was a Black
motorist. He was pulled over. Police officer pulls him over.
We're over here in this lane. When he gets pulled
over, immediately my boys grab my phone and they hold
(35:51):
it out and they start filming what's happening on this
side of the road. The driver is like, " Why are
you filming?" My boys say, and I tell him, I said, "
This is what we do. You don't do this here?"
In the US, there had been so many Black motorists that
had been killed by police that what we would do
(36:13):
is we would film to protect the motorists. My boys
are filming. The white police officer walks over to the
motorist, they exchange some words. We're wondering what is going
to happen. Then the motorist smiles. He goes like this.
Police officer high- fives him, and then they walk away.
(36:35):
Now, that's not to say I know the UK's got issues.
Every country has issues. Me driving in Washington DC, if
a police officer were to pull me over, I remember
I was pulled over in, I'll never forget this. We
had taken a road trip to Nashville, Tennessee in the
(36:56):
states. We had our two boys, but they were babies.
They're in the backseat, my wife. A police officer pulls
us over. I'll never forget. I was shaking. My hands
were sweating. I told Jill, I said, " Keep the phone
on just in case anything happens. If he tells me
(37:17):
to get out the car, make sure that you turn."
You should not in this day and age, nowhere in
the world should you live in fear of being pulled
over. You could understand when we saw that here-
Alex Legouix (37:35):
Wow. The impact.
Paul Brunson (37:37):
Yeah. It looks like we're going to stay here.
Alex Legouix (37:46):
Our final venue is Jamaica Party Company.
Paul Brunson (37:51):
Yes, man. Yes, man.
Alex Legouix (37:54):
Tell me about your Jamaican heritage.
Paul Brunson (37:56):
My mother was born within the bush in Jamaica. My
grandparents, obviously aunts, uncles, all Jamaican. I've been going to
Jamaica since I was a little boy. It is home for me.
Alex Legouix (38:13):
Really?
Paul Brunson (38:13):
Yes, it is home. I rep Jamaica strong. I love
all Jamaican food. Jamaican Patty Co is one of my
favorites because they make a high end patty. Matter of
fact, the owner, Teresa, she was just appointed an ambassador from Jamaica.
Alex Legouix (38:37):
Nice.
Paul Brunson (38:37):
Yeah, she's a cultural ambassador now.
Alex Legouix (38:40):
Oh, that's nice.
Paul Brunson (38:41):
Yeah. She's amazing. Her husband, because I go to Jamaican
Patty Co all the time. Her husband taught me about
the history of the patty, which I didn't know comes
from Cornwall.
Alex Legouix (38:52):
Does it?
Paul Brunson (38:53):
Yeah. A lot of people don't know this.
Alex Legouix (38:54):
No, I didn't know that.
Paul Brunson (38:55):
Yet. The Jamaican patty comes from, what is it in Cornwall?
Is it called the pasty or paste? Is it pasty, right?
Alex Legouix (39:01):
Pasty.
Paul Brunson (39:03):
Pastry.
Alex Legouix (39:03):
It's pasty or pastry.
Paul Brunson (39:05):
Pasty.
Alex Legouix (39:05):
Pasty.
Paul Brunson (39:06):
The Pasty. What would happen, here's the story. In Cornwall,
they were minors.
Alex Legouix (39:12):
Yeah.
Paul Brunson (39:13):
Aluminum or bauxite, it was the number one natural resource
in Jamaica. The UK would send these coal miners, or
should I say these bauxite miners from Cornwall to Jamaica.
While they're mining, they needed something to eat during the
day so they'd have their pasty's. The Jamaicans got ahold
(39:36):
of it, like we get ahold of everything and remixed
it a little bit. That's what eventually became the patty.
Alex Legouix (39:42):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (39:44):
Yes. You see the JPC?
Alex Legouix (39:47):
Oh, yes.
Paul Brunson (39:48):
Yeah. No, the patty's there are phenomenal.
Alex Legouix (39:52):
You go to Jamaica a lot?
Paul Brunson (39:53):
A lot. A lot. I was just there actually now it's a while
ago, but I was there in January.
Alex Legouix (40:00):
Oh, wow.
Paul Brunson (40:02):
At least once a year I go to Jamaica. Jamaica
in my opinion, is on a per capita basis. It
is the most influential country in the world. The reason
why I say that is because there's only roughly two
million people who live in Jamaica. There's probably another two
(40:23):
million people who live outside of Jamaica. You have four
million Jamaicans. That's not even London. But yet, anywhere you
go in the world, when you start talking about Usain
Bolt or Bob Marley, or you put on reggae music
or whatever it may be, Jamaica resonates. It resonates with
(40:45):
a smile. To the point where when sometimes when I
travel, and I did this more so about five, six
years ago, is I wouldn't say I was American. Because
sometimes you jump in a taxi, you say you're American.
It's like I say ugh. I say I'm Jamaican, and I tested the
taxi. Sometimes I'll jump in. Now I'm like, I'm from
(41:06):
the UK. Let's say I was in, where was I? I
think the last I did this, I was in Barcelona.
I jumped in and I said, "I'm from the UK." You know what the
taxi driver did? He's like, he didn't even smile. He's
like. Then I said, jumped into another one. " I'm from
America, I'm from the US." Whatever. Jump in, " I'm from Jamaica." "
(41:30):
Jamaica, man." There's a thing that comes with it.
Alex Legouix (41:38):
That's so true. Yeah.
Paul Brunson (41:40):
Why is that? Is it because of Bob Marley and the likes of or?
It's all of it. It's the sun. It's knowing the pain
that Jamaicans went through. It is the food. It's the
vibrancy of the culture. Jamaica, just like the pasty, they've
(42:01):
remixed the pasty. Everything in Jamaica is spicier.
Alex Legouix (42:06):
They've remixed life.
Paul Brunson (42:07):
They've remixed... You said it.
Alex Legouix (42:09):
Right. Okay, let's go and get a patty then.
Paul Brunson (42:12):
Can we get one? Let's do it.
Alex Legouix (42:13):
Let's do it.
Paul Brunson (42:17):
You're going to love it.
Alex Legouix (42:36):
Okay, this is exciting.
Paul Brunson (42:36):
You're going to love it. Let's eat in the car. That's a good place to eat. All right.
Alex Legouix (42:36):
Yes. I'm so excited.
Paul Brunson (42:36):
There you go. Well, hold on. You're about to pull.
Alex Legouix (42:39):
Tear it. Only because I'm wearing a white top and I'm extraordinarily clumsy.
Paul Brunson (42:44):
Oh, but you can't tear though. That's not Jamaican style.
You have to just eat it like this.
Alex Legouix (42:48):
Oh, okay.
Paul Brunson (42:48):
Okay. But you can't spill any. All right, ready?
Alex Legouix (42:55):
Okay. Yeah. Oh, really good.
Paul Brunson (42:58):
That's really good.
Alex Legouix (42:59):
I really enjoyed our chat.
Paul Brunson (43:01):
Oh, I did too. I thought it was unintrusive and
it was just like we just had a conversation, which
was cool. While driving, which I've never done before.
Alex Legouix (43:14):
Hang on. Whoa. You did not drive. I had to do that.
Paul Brunson (43:16):
But I helped you though.
Alex Legouix (43:19):
Yeah, thank you.
Paul Brunson (43:19):
No. But thank you though. This is really good.
Alex Legouix (43:19):
Thank you too.
Paul Brunson (43:19):
Yeah, really good.
Alex Legouix (43:30):
Thanks so much to Paul Brunson for not only showing
me around his adopted home city, but also treating me
to a delicious Jamaican patty. You can see exclusive footage
of the drive by heading to the Auto Trader socials.
Look at the episode page for links. You'll also be
able to see the Twisted Defender that Paul was so
thrilled to be driven in. If you are looking for a new vehicle, you
(43:53):
can find your perfect match at autotrader. co. uk. This
is a new show and I'd love you to follow
on your favorite podcast platform. Like what you hear? Rate
and review, and make sure you tell your friends so
you don't miss an episode. Show On the Road is
a fresh air production for Auto Trader.
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