June 8, 2023 • 18 mins
Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand (CA ANZ) has released the Professional Conduct Framework Review Final Report, an Independent Review of the recommendations, and the Committee’s Response to the Independent Review.
This comes at a time when the spotlight is on the profession, and on the powers to hold those who breach the Code of Ethics to account.
In this episode, CA ANZ CEO Ainslie van Onselen sits down with host Gillian Bowen to take Members through some of the Review’s key recommendations and the next steps in the process.
As well as recommending a range of procedural and efficiency improvements, the recommendations from this Review extend the existing features of the Disciplinary Framework to address events involving firms and the systemic and cultural issues underpinning them.
Ms Van Onselen also answers questions about how the Review will assist the CA ANZ disciplinary bodies in upholding the trust in, and integrity of, the profession.
Read about the Professional Conduct Framework Review here
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gillian Bowen, Host (00:08):
Hello, I'm Gillian Bowen, Public Affairs Manager at Chartered Accountants ANZ,
or CA ANZ. This is Small Firm, Big Impact.
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (00:22):
Well, it'd be fair to say that none of our
members would be enjoying the headlines of recent weeks, especially
especially the overwhelming majority who live up to the charge
every day and do the right thing. And so what
I will say is there is never an excuse for
unethical behavior. And you're right, there is a spotlight on
the accounting profession right now, how it carries out its
(00:43):
work and the role of professional bodies to hold to
account those who breached the code of ethics.
Gillian Bowen, Host (00:54):
It's the podcast giving you and your clients the up
to date information you need to do your jobs. Each
fortnight I share resources, tools and expert advice provided by CA ANZ
and a range of people across our profession. So make
sure you're following the pod in your favourite pod app.
And if you've got an idea for the show email
podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com This episode, Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand CEO
(01:25):
Ainslie van Onselen is back on the podcast. The topic:
the Professional Conduct Framework Review. Ainslie, welcome back to Small Firm,
Big Impact.
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (01:34):
Hi Gill. Great to be here.
Gillian Bowen, Host (01:36):
Okay, so on June 7th, 2023, CA ANZ released what is
a pretty comprehensive piece of work, the results of the
Professional Conduct Framework Review. Now, before I dive into the
nitty gritty of what's in it with Ainslie, I just
want to set up this situation for our members and
for anyone else listening along to the episode. The Professional
(01:57):
Conduct Framework Review was announced in July 2022. In August
last year, the Terms of Reference were released. It was
also confirmed at that time, former Federal Court Justice the
Honorable Dennis Cowdroy AO KC, would be involved - in that - he
would carry out an independent review of the recommendations. Submissions
by members who wanted to provide feedback on the professional
(02:20):
conduct review closed in November last year. The reviews committee
then spent months going through the submissions, benchmarking CA ANZ and
NZICA's framework against other leading accounting bodies and other professional
associations and doing a range of other work related to
the review. Mr. Cowdroy then played his part before all
(02:41):
the work was collated and finalised and handed to the
CA ANZ board by May 31st as per the Terms of Reference.
And then here we are now. So that's the timeline sorted.
Ainslie let's look at some headline points of the review
first and then dive deeper. What are the headlines?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (03:02):
Well, Gill I'd say there would be about
Three main key parts of the headline. The first is
that the review was extensive. It was thorough. It's about
ensuring ethics and integrity remain the cornerstone for our profession
under a framework that's robust, independent and fair. The second
key takeaway is that the recommendations extend the existing disciplinary
(03:24):
framework to deal with firm events so that we can
better address some of the systemic and cultural issues that
we see today. And thirdly, there's some key recommendations, and
these include, for example, a five fold increase in the
maximum fines for events involving firms, which shows how we
use this process to test the limits of our framework
(03:46):
in the public interest and in line with community expectations.
Another key recommendation is reinforcing with our members what their
ethical and self-disclosure obligations are. And the third was the
ability for our independent disciplinary bodies to investigate former members
in Australia, noting that this is already able to happen
(04:07):
in New Zealand.
Gillian Bowen, Host (04:08):
Okay, so firm events that stood out for me and
former members, that's also a recommendation I want to ask
more about. So looking at the list of consolidated recommendations
on the website, it's a dropdown menu for those listening along.
Under recommendation two is the information you mentioned about firm events.
So it details increasing the maximum fine that may apply
(04:31):
collectively to the members who are partners principals in relation
to firm events. So at the PCC level it would
become $100,000 under a consent agreement and at the disciplinary
tribunal level it would be a max of $250,000, a
$250,000 fine for a firm event. The big four, for example.
(04:51):
They make a lot of money each year and the
big firms have a lot of partners. Will a fine
this size even have an impact?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (05:01):
Look, I understand why you could think that and why
some of our members might think that, but it is
important to understand that we are a membership organisation and
we are required to work within our charter and its limits.
So these maximum fines are actually quite significant for an
organisation like ours. And what is a significant change is
(05:21):
that poor behaviour of individuals used to be highlighted and examined.
Now firms are also liable for that behaviour if it's
deemed to be a firm event. And in fact our
global benchmarking exercise found Gill that this recommendation is either
in line with and in some cases it's stronger than
organisations similar to ours. And you'll also note in that
(05:43):
consolidated recommendations box Gill, that it says sanctions and fines
for an individual member who is involved in a firm
event and whose involvement conduct may have breached the code
of ethics or the bylaws or the rules, remain at
current levels. And so that may apply in addition to
any sanctions that apply to the firm event.
Gillian Bowen, Host (06:04):
Okay. So the recommendations from this review extend, as you say,
the existing features of the disciplinary framework to address events
involving firms and the systemic and cultural issues underpinning them.
There is a spotlight on the profession right now, on
the culture within the profession. What's the problem and what
is CA ANZ doing about it?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (06:24):
Well, it'd be fair to say that none of our
members would be enjoying the headlines of recent weeks, especially
especially the overwhelming majority who live up to the charge
every day and do the right thing. And so what
I'll say is there is never an excuse for unethical behavior.
And you're right, there is a spotlight on the accounting
profession right now, how it carries out its work and
(06:46):
the role of professional bodies to hold to account those
who breached the code of ethics. So extending our disciplinary
framework through the recommendations we've released are about ensuring that
ethics and integrity remain the cornerstone of our profession. And specifically,
as I mentioned, there are recommendations to deal with firm events. Now.
(07:08):
The review itself was started many months ago and it's
come at the right time. And in addition, we offer
services to our members. So some include, for example, the
Mentor Exchange program, but there's also the advisory group, which
is a counselling and support service for our members. It's confidential.
Members ring up and speak to very senior members of
the profession and get assistance on things like ethical challenges
(07:30):
that they may be facing or where they need professional support.
And of course, there's also work for the firms to
do in this space regarding their culture within their firms
to make it productive, ethical and fair for employees. And
we will work with them on that. We've also taken
a number of steps recently to ease the pressure on
auditors in particular and chartered accountants, including, for example, asking
(07:54):
for an increase in the skilled migration cap. And because
we know we've got a talent shortage right now, and
then also making it easier, not harder to do accounting
and finance degrees, we've seen the number of finance accounting graduates,
almost half in Australia alone from 2018 to 2021. So
we must address that. It's a great profession to be
(08:15):
involved on and so we really need to continue to
put a spotlight on the attractiveness of the profession.
Gillian Bowen, Host (08:22):
Have you reached out personally to executive management of the
big firms about behaviour and ethics in recent times?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (08:29):
Look, I talk regularly to members right across the profession,
and in fact I've written to all 135,000 members about
this review, the recommendations and its findings. And I've also
reached out to the leadership of the Big Six, and
I expect to have continued discussions with members from across
the profession about this review. And I'm really looking forward
(08:51):
to everyone's feedback to the report and future engagement of
this vital issue.
Gillian Bowen, Host (08:58):
Look, the recommendations relating to former members. Let's talk about
that now. What can you tell me more about that recommendation?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (09:04):
Well, we're proposing to change the current situation in Australia
where CA ANZ can't undertake an investigation into the conduct of
former Australian members, noting, of course, that this is not
the case in New Zealand, and New Zealand we can.
What this will do is allow the disciplinary bodies to
investigate regardless of membership status. So, for example, this would
(09:25):
close a loophole that allows members to avoid disciplinary action
by terminating their membership.
Gillian Bowen, Host (09:31):
So then are there former members from the past that
CA ANZ would go after if that recommendation was endorsed?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (09:38):
Well, this isn't about going after anyone in particular. This
change is about bringing us in line and aligning ourselves
with our framework in New Zealand. The details of how
this will be implemented requires some further work, but this
particular recommendation will go to a member vote later in
the year and we will spend the time in the
lead up to that vote looking at how best those
(09:59):
powers will work in practice.
Gillian Bowen, Host (10:02):
Okay. So the review found that the disciplinary framework meets
or exceeds standards set by IFAC and meets or exceeds
peer and international benchmarks, and that it responds appropriately and
proportionately to proven academic misconduct by provisional members in relation
to assessments and exams undertaken for the conferral of the
(10:23):
TESQA accredited CA Program. Did the review go far enough?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (10:28):
Well, IFAC requires CA ANZ to conduct periodic reviews of the
system and we continue to do so as part of
our commitment to continuous improvement. So this review included an
extensive external benchmarking exercise. We looked at other PIOs around
the world and we also looked at other professional membership
(10:48):
bodies such as the Law Society of New South Wales
and the Law Society of New Zealand, Engineers, Australia and Engineers,
New Zealand. It was a really extensive comprehensive benchmarking exercise.
We also looked of course at IFAC requirements and examined those and then finally
there was significant engagement with stakeholders. So we invited submissions
from all CA ANZ members and members of the disciplinary bodies
(11:11):
as well. And then of course we had the independent
review of our recommendations by the Honorable Dennis Cowdroy AO KC.
So the upshot of that is, I believe it was
an extensive and thorough process. And it's through this process
that recommendations have been able to be developed that will
extend the existing features of the disciplinary framework to address events,
(11:35):
for example, involving firms and the systemic cultural issues underpinning them,
as well as recommending a range of procedural and efficiency
improvements in the process.
Gillian Bowen, Host (11:46):
So on transparency, there's also a recommendation on that. It's
included in item six of the consolidated recommendations for those
listening along and perhaps taking some notes as we discuss this,
on fairer and clearer publication and confidentiality requirements. What should
we point out there?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (12:06):
Well, Gill, among the opportunities is a recommendation to consolidate
the disciplinary decisions into a single online public register, which
will display all the disciplinary decisions made at all the
levels so PCC, DT, AT, in addition to the annual report,
the register will also include statistics and data about complaints
(12:29):
dismissed and grounds for dismissal. This one stop shop, if
you like, will increase transparency and accountability. And the purpose
of the register is to centralise and streamline how this
information is captured and shared. So again, it's about increasing
transparency and continuous improvement.
Gillian Bowen, Host (12:48):
I want to ask about the KPMG matter which occurred
prior to the Professional Conduct Framework review starting last year.
Let's assume the recommendations are endorsed by members. If a
firm event like that happened again, would the firm be fined?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (13:04):
Potentially it could. This review has really honed in on
firm events, and you'll see in the report that we're
broadening our focus to ensure we can deal with them
more effectively. So what I will say is, yes, you
could potentially see a different response to firm events moving
forward to address systemic and cultural issues.
Gillian Bowen, Host (13:26):
What about the names of those involved? If a similar
situation happened again, would they be published?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (13:32):
If a similar situation happened, potentially it could look different.
As I said, the review has identified a number of opportunities
to enhance the conduct and disciplinary framework and its processes
and procedures, and we're broadening our focus to ensure we
can deal with firms effectively. And that could mean a
different response.
Gillian Bowen, Host (13:54):
What are the key changes for New Zealand members?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (13:57):
Well, in addition to the ones I've already mentioned, there
are a range of other recommendations, including for New Zealand
optional firm membership as well as the power of the
PCC to engage a panel of experts in appropriate cases
and to allow those experts to confer throughout the process
and the use in New Zealand of a conciliation process.
Gillian Bowen, Host (14:20):
Okay, so let's whip through some questions members might be
thinking about. What's the process and timeline now, for example,
for implementation?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (14:28):
Well, some of the recommendations can and have been actioned
as a matter of course, but others will require amendments
to the CA ANZ bylaws or the NZICA rules and therefore
a member vote. Members will hear more about the voting
process in the lead up to our AGM in October
this year.
Gillian Bowen, Host (14:45):
Okay. So on that, what recommendations require a vote?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (14:49):
Okay. Well, some of the recommendations that require a vote
include a five fold increase in maximum fines for events
involving firms, introducing voluntary firm membership in New Zealand, which
then will align with the Australian approach and enabling investigations
into former Australia members, which will then align with the
(15:10):
New Zealand approach.
Gillian Bowen, Host (15:12):
So why don't they all require a vote?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (15:15):
Because not all the recommendations Gill, require an amendment to
the CA ANZ bylaws or the NZICA rules. So for example, recommendations
3, 6.1 and 6.2. And then also some of the elements
of recommendation five, which are around procedural enhancements. They don't
(15:35):
require any change to the bylaws or the NZICA rules, so
no requirement for member approval. We will get on with
that as business as usual.
Gillian Bowen, Host (15:43):
So if you're following along at home, you can find
all the consolidated recommendations - so that's a combination of the
review's recommendations and Mr. Cowdroy's feedback laid out for you.
On the CA ANZ website. There's a tile to the review
on the home page, but there is also a link
to the direct page in the email Ainslie sent to
members early on the morning of June 7th. And we've
(16:04):
also shared that link on social media if you follow
the CA ANZ accounts, you can find that there. So why
can't members vote now?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (16:12):
Well that work to draw up the bylaw changes and
the NZICA rule changes is underway now. We'll communicate that
to our members and information on how to vote in
the lead up to the AGM in October.
Gillian Bowen, Host (16:26):
Well, on that, what's your message to members listening along?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (16:29):
Well, I'd invite them, Gill, to take the time to
read the material. There is a lot of it and
we've tried to make it as easy to digest on
the website as we can with the consolidated recommendations. And
there's a good executive summary as well in the in
the final report. And if you've got questions, ask us,
you know, I'm sure there's going to be a wide
(16:49):
range of views. There always is when you've got a
professional membership body of 135,000 people. So keep an eye
out in your inbox in the lead up to the
AGM in October for the information on how to vote.
There'll be a range of recommendations and as I've mentioned,
that require members to have their say.
Gillian Bowen, Host (17:08):
Now, I just want to say members have been inquiring
with the CA ANZ about the PwC Tax Practitioners Board matter.
There is a statement on that on our website confirming
the Professional Conduct Committee investigation. And given that there is
now an Australian Federal Police investigation underway, it's not wise
for us to comment on that matter in this podcast.
Nobody wants to prejudice the confidential Professional Conduct Committee investigation
(17:31):
or the AFP investigation. That is all we have time for.
If you want to find out more, if you're a Member,
check your inbox for an email from Ainslie and our
board chair, John Palermo. Of course, everything is on the website,
including the Professional Conduct Framework Review final report, the independent
review by Mr. Cowdroy of the recommendations and the committee's
(17:53):
response to the independent review and some FAQ's. There is
a lot of reading. I'll put a link to the
website in the show notes as well so you can
find it there if you want to. Thank you Ainslie
van Onselen for joining me on Small Firm, Big Impact.
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (18:06):
Thanks Gill. Always a pleasure.
Gillian Bowen, Host (18:08):
Bye bye.
Hello, I'm Gillian Bowen, Public Affairs Manager at Chartered Accountants ANZ,
or CA ANZ. This is Small Firm, Big Impact.
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (00:22):
Well, it'd be fair to say that none of our
members would be enjoying the headlines of recent weeks, especially
especially the overwhelming majority who live up to the charge
every day and do the right thing. And so what
I will say is there is never an excuse for
unethical behavior. And you're right, there is a spotlight on
the accounting profession right now, how it carries out its
(00:43):
work and the role of professional bodies to hold to
account those who breached the code of ethics.
Gillian Bowen, Host (00:54):
It's the podcast giving you and your clients the up
to date information you need to do your jobs. Each
fortnight I share resources, tools and expert advice provided by CA ANZ
and a range of people across our profession. So make
sure you're following the pod in your favourite pod app.
And if you've got an idea for the show email
podcast@charteredaccountantsanz.com This episode, Chartered Accountants Australia and New Zealand CEO
(01:25):
Ainslie van Onselen is back on the podcast. The topic:
the Professional Conduct Framework Review. Ainslie, welcome back to Small Firm,
Big Impact.
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (01:34):
Hi Gill. Great to be here.
Gillian Bowen, Host (01:36):
Okay, so on June 7th, 2023, CA ANZ released what is
a pretty comprehensive piece of work, the results of the
Professional Conduct Framework Review. Now, before I dive into the
nitty gritty of what's in it with Ainslie, I just
want to set up this situation for our members and
for anyone else listening along to the episode. The Professional
(01:57):
Conduct Framework Review was announced in July 2022. In August
last year, the Terms of Reference were released. It was
also confirmed at that time, former Federal Court Justice the
Honorable Dennis Cowdroy AO KC, would be involved - in that - he
would carry out an independent review of the recommendations. Submissions
by members who wanted to provide feedback on the professional
(02:20):
conduct review closed in November last year. The reviews committee
then spent months going through the submissions, benchmarking CA ANZ and
NZICA's framework against other leading accounting bodies and other professional
associations and doing a range of other work related to
the review. Mr. Cowdroy then played his part before all
(02:41):
the work was collated and finalised and handed to the
CA ANZ board by May 31st as per the Terms of Reference.
And then here we are now. So that's the timeline sorted.
Ainslie let's look at some headline points of the review
first and then dive deeper. What are the headlines?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (03:02):
Well, Gill I'd say there would be about
Three main key parts of the headline. The first is
that the review was extensive. It was thorough. It's about
ensuring ethics and integrity remain the cornerstone for our profession
under a framework that's robust, independent and fair. The second
key takeaway is that the recommendations extend the existing disciplinary
(03:24):
framework to deal with firm events so that we can
better address some of the systemic and cultural issues that
we see today. And thirdly, there's some key recommendations, and
these include, for example, a five fold increase in the
maximum fines for events involving firms, which shows how we
use this process to test the limits of our framework
(03:46):
in the public interest and in line with community expectations.
Another key recommendation is reinforcing with our members what their
ethical and self-disclosure obligations are. And the third was the
ability for our independent disciplinary bodies to investigate former members
in Australia, noting that this is already able to happen
(04:07):
in New Zealand.
Gillian Bowen, Host (04:08):
Okay, so firm events that stood out for me and
former members, that's also a recommendation I want to ask
more about. So looking at the list of consolidated recommendations
on the website, it's a dropdown menu for those listening along.
Under recommendation two is the information you mentioned about firm events.
So it details increasing the maximum fine that may apply
(04:31):
collectively to the members who are partners principals in relation
to firm events. So at the PCC level it would
become $100,000 under a consent agreement and at the disciplinary
tribunal level it would be a max of $250,000, a
$250,000 fine for a firm event. The big four, for example.
(04:51):
They make a lot of money each year and the
big firms have a lot of partners. Will a fine
this size even have an impact?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (05:01):
Look, I understand why you could think that and why
some of our members might think that, but it is
important to understand that we are a membership organisation and
we are required to work within our charter and its limits.
So these maximum fines are actually quite significant for an
organisation like ours. And what is a significant change is
(05:21):
that poor behaviour of individuals used to be highlighted and examined.
Now firms are also liable for that behaviour if it's
deemed to be a firm event. And in fact our
global benchmarking exercise found Gill that this recommendation is either
in line with and in some cases it's stronger than
organisations similar to ours. And you'll also note in that
(05:43):
consolidated recommendations box Gill, that it says sanctions and fines
for an individual member who is involved in a firm
event and whose involvement conduct may have breached the code
of ethics or the bylaws or the rules, remain at
current levels. And so that may apply in addition to
any sanctions that apply to the firm event.
Gillian Bowen, Host (06:04):
Okay. So the recommendations from this review extend, as you say,
the existing features of the disciplinary framework to address events
involving firms and the systemic and cultural issues underpinning them.
There is a spotlight on the profession right now, on
the culture within the profession. What's the problem and what
is CA ANZ doing about it?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (06:24):
Well, it'd be fair to say that none of our
members would be enjoying the headlines of recent weeks, especially
especially the overwhelming majority who live up to the charge
every day and do the right thing. And so what
I'll say is there is never an excuse for unethical behavior.
And you're right, there is a spotlight on the accounting
profession right now, how it carries out its work and
(06:46):
the role of professional bodies to hold to account those
who breached the code of ethics. So extending our disciplinary
framework through the recommendations we've released are about ensuring that
ethics and integrity remain the cornerstone of our profession. And specifically,
as I mentioned, there are recommendations to deal with firm events. Now.
(07:08):
The review itself was started many months ago and it's
come at the right time. And in addition, we offer
services to our members. So some include, for example, the
Mentor Exchange program, but there's also the advisory group, which
is a counselling and support service for our members. It's confidential.
Members ring up and speak to very senior members of
the profession and get assistance on things like ethical challenges
(07:30):
that they may be facing or where they need professional support.
And of course, there's also work for the firms to
do in this space regarding their culture within their firms
to make it productive, ethical and fair for employees. And
we will work with them on that. We've also taken
a number of steps recently to ease the pressure on
auditors in particular and chartered accountants, including, for example, asking
(07:54):
for an increase in the skilled migration cap. And because
we know we've got a talent shortage right now, and
then also making it easier, not harder to do accounting
and finance degrees, we've seen the number of finance accounting graduates,
almost half in Australia alone from 2018 to 2021. So
we must address that. It's a great profession to be
(08:15):
involved on and so we really need to continue to
put a spotlight on the attractiveness of the profession.
Gillian Bowen, Host (08:22):
Have you reached out personally to executive management of the
big firms about behaviour and ethics in recent times?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (08:29):
Look, I talk regularly to members right across the profession,
and in fact I've written to all 135,000 members about
this review, the recommendations and its findings. And I've also
reached out to the leadership of the Big Six, and
I expect to have continued discussions with members from across
the profession about this review. And I'm really looking forward
(08:51):
to everyone's feedback to the report and future engagement of
this vital issue.
Gillian Bowen, Host (08:58):
Look, the recommendations relating to former members. Let's talk about
that now. What can you tell me more about that recommendation?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (09:04):
Well, we're proposing to change the current situation in Australia
where CA ANZ can't undertake an investigation into the conduct of
former Australian members, noting, of course, that this is not
the case in New Zealand, and New Zealand we can.
What this will do is allow the disciplinary bodies to
investigate regardless of membership status. So, for example, this would
(09:25):
close a loophole that allows members to avoid disciplinary action
by terminating their membership.
Gillian Bowen, Host (09:31):
So then are there former members from the past that
CA ANZ would go after if that recommendation was endorsed?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (09:38):
Well, this isn't about going after anyone in particular. This
change is about bringing us in line and aligning ourselves
with our framework in New Zealand. The details of how
this will be implemented requires some further work, but this
particular recommendation will go to a member vote later in
the year and we will spend the time in the
lead up to that vote looking at how best those
(09:59):
powers will work in practice.
Gillian Bowen, Host (10:02):
Okay. So the review found that the disciplinary framework meets
or exceeds standards set by IFAC and meets or exceeds
peer and international benchmarks, and that it responds appropriately and
proportionately to proven academic misconduct by provisional members in relation
to assessments and exams undertaken for the conferral of the
(10:23):
TESQA accredited CA Program. Did the review go far enough?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (10:28):
Well, IFAC requires CA ANZ to conduct periodic reviews of the
system and we continue to do so as part of
our commitment to continuous improvement. So this review included an
extensive external benchmarking exercise. We looked at other PIOs around
the world and we also looked at other professional membership
(10:48):
bodies such as the Law Society of New South Wales
and the Law Society of New Zealand, Engineers, Australia and Engineers,
New Zealand. It was a really extensive comprehensive benchmarking exercise.
We also looked of course at IFAC requirements and examined those and then finally
there was significant engagement with stakeholders. So we invited submissions
from all CA ANZ members and members of the disciplinary bodies
(11:11):
as well. And then of course we had the independent
review of our recommendations by the Honorable Dennis Cowdroy AO KC.
So the upshot of that is, I believe it was
an extensive and thorough process. And it's through this process
that recommendations have been able to be developed that will
extend the existing features of the disciplinary framework to address events,
(11:35):
for example, involving firms and the systemic cultural issues underpinning them,
as well as recommending a range of procedural and efficiency
improvements in the process.
Gillian Bowen, Host (11:46):
So on transparency, there's also a recommendation on that. It's
included in item six of the consolidated recommendations for those
listening along and perhaps taking some notes as we discuss this,
on fairer and clearer publication and confidentiality requirements. What should
we point out there?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (12:06):
Well, Gill, among the opportunities is a recommendation to consolidate
the disciplinary decisions into a single online public register, which
will display all the disciplinary decisions made at all the
levels so PCC, DT, AT, in addition to the annual report,
the register will also include statistics and data about complaints
(12:29):
dismissed and grounds for dismissal. This one stop shop, if
you like, will increase transparency and accountability. And the purpose
of the register is to centralise and streamline how this
information is captured and shared. So again, it's about increasing
transparency and continuous improvement.
Gillian Bowen, Host (12:48):
I want to ask about the KPMG matter which occurred
prior to the Professional Conduct Framework review starting last year.
Let's assume the recommendations are endorsed by members. If a
firm event like that happened again, would the firm be fined?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (13:04):
Potentially it could. This review has really honed in on
firm events, and you'll see in the report that we're
broadening our focus to ensure we can deal with them
more effectively. So what I will say is, yes, you
could potentially see a different response to firm events moving
forward to address systemic and cultural issues.
Gillian Bowen, Host (13:26):
What about the names of those involved? If a similar
situation happened again, would they be published?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (13:32):
If a similar situation happened, potentially it could look different.
As I said, the review has identified a number of opportunities
to enhance the conduct and disciplinary framework and its processes
and procedures, and we're broadening our focus to ensure we
can deal with firms effectively. And that could mean a
different response.
Gillian Bowen, Host (13:54):
What are the key changes for New Zealand members?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (13:57):
Well, in addition to the ones I've already mentioned, there
are a range of other recommendations, including for New Zealand
optional firm membership as well as the power of the
PCC to engage a panel of experts in appropriate cases
and to allow those experts to confer throughout the process
and the use in New Zealand of a conciliation process.
Gillian Bowen, Host (14:20):
Okay, so let's whip through some questions members might be
thinking about. What's the process and timeline now, for example,
for implementation?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (14:28):
Well, some of the recommendations can and have been actioned
as a matter of course, but others will require amendments
to the CA ANZ bylaws or the NZICA rules and therefore
a member vote. Members will hear more about the voting
process in the lead up to our AGM in October
this year.
Gillian Bowen, Host (14:45):
Okay. So on that, what recommendations require a vote?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (14:49):
Okay. Well, some of the recommendations that require a vote
include a five fold increase in maximum fines for events
involving firms, introducing voluntary firm membership in New Zealand, which
then will align with the Australian approach and enabling investigations
into former Australia members, which will then align with the
(15:10):
New Zealand approach.
Gillian Bowen, Host (15:12):
So why don't they all require a vote?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (15:15):
Because not all the recommendations Gill, require an amendment to
the CA ANZ bylaws or the NZICA rules. So for example, recommendations
3, 6.1 and 6.2. And then also some of the elements
of recommendation five, which are around procedural enhancements. They don't
(15:35):
require any change to the bylaws or the NZICA rules, so
no requirement for member approval. We will get on with
that as business as usual.
Gillian Bowen, Host (15:43):
So if you're following along at home, you can find
all the consolidated recommendations - so that's a combination of the
review's recommendations and Mr. Cowdroy's feedback laid out for you.
On the CA ANZ website. There's a tile to the review
on the home page, but there is also a link
to the direct page in the email Ainslie sent to
members early on the morning of June 7th. And we've
(16:04):
also shared that link on social media if you follow
the CA ANZ accounts, you can find that there. So why
can't members vote now?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (16:12):
Well that work to draw up the bylaw changes and
the NZICA rule changes is underway now. We'll communicate that
to our members and information on how to vote in
the lead up to the AGM in October.
Gillian Bowen, Host (16:26):
Well, on that, what's your message to members listening along?
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (16:29):
Well, I'd invite them, Gill, to take the time to
read the material. There is a lot of it and
we've tried to make it as easy to digest on
the website as we can with the consolidated recommendations. And
there's a good executive summary as well in the in
the final report. And if you've got questions, ask us,
you know, I'm sure there's going to be a wide
(16:49):
range of views. There always is when you've got a
professional membership body of 135,000 people. So keep an eye
out in your inbox in the lead up to the
AGM in October for the information on how to vote.
There'll be a range of recommendations and as I've mentioned,
that require members to have their say.
Gillian Bowen, Host (17:08):
Now, I just want to say members have been inquiring
with the CA ANZ about the PwC Tax Practitioners Board matter.
There is a statement on that on our website confirming
the Professional Conduct Committee investigation. And given that there is
now an Australian Federal Police investigation underway, it's not wise
for us to comment on that matter in this podcast.
Nobody wants to prejudice the confidential Professional Conduct Committee investigation
(17:31):
or the AFP investigation. That is all we have time for.
If you want to find out more, if you're a Member,
check your inbox for an email from Ainslie and our
board chair, John Palermo. Of course, everything is on the website,
including the Professional Conduct Framework Review final report, the independent
review by Mr. Cowdroy of the recommendations and the committee's
(17:53):
response to the independent review and some FAQ's. There is
a lot of reading. I'll put a link to the
website in the show notes as well so you can
find it there if you want to. Thank you Ainslie
van Onselen for joining me on Small Firm, Big Impact.
Ainslie van Onselen, Chartered Accountants ANZ CEO (18:06):
Thanks Gill. Always a pleasure.
Gillian Bowen, Host (18:08):
Bye bye.
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