#176 Delvene Delaney: The Untold Story Behind Australia’s Most Iconic Film - Crocodile Dundee - Straight Talk with Mark Bouris

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Him, I Boris, and this is straight talk.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I did the documentary because I didn't want him to
not be here anymore.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Deli Delvin Delaney, Well to straight talk. We're here to
talk about a whole lot of stuff. You were married
for a long long time to John stock Queyn. Yeah,
you met in the pub.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Of course.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's like you read about a love stories.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Everything he did he thought big, whether it was well
Through's Cricket or the Paul Hogan shows, or certainly Crocodile Dundee.
And so he had no fear and he had tremendous
self belief.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
He talked about Crocodile Dundee one being to some extent
a love story between Hoagues and Linda. Is this documentary
about the love story between Delphine Delaney and John Counell. Yeah,
this is a love letter to John Delphine Deli Mark
Delvin Delaney, Well, having a straight talk. Thank you for

(01:02):
having me. How long were we been made for?

Speaker 2 (01:06):
When you just reminded me it was twenty two years?
So I was such a slip of a girl.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
You were still are. Your gorgeous cheeks just went a
bit read too. We Thanksuly, I probably knew before that
because I think that I was hunting around up there
Byron bay Are with Gingja Maginsha. He's probably used to
stay up at one of your the a frame for
your place up there.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
He stayed in every house I had spread himself around.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
And now he lives up Welcome and live neighbor and
my neighbor too. Well, we're here to talk about a
whole lot of stuff. You were married for a long
long time to one of the people that I consider
and I'm not an efficionado on this topic, but I

(01:56):
considered to be one of the greatest creators in Australian
television and probably a lot of other things too, in
an entrepreneurial sense. Ever, of course, John stropped Cornell. Yeah,
how long ago were you guys married?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
We were married for forty six years?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Forty six years? Yeah, and he passed away? How long agoes? Now?
As he passed away, it'll be four years in July.
Four years. Wow, that's mad. I do want to talk
to you about that, not his passing, but I want
to talk to you about how you met.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
We met in the pub, of course, I know who'd
have thought that we would have had one for thirty
years afterwards, but we met it five ways in Paddington
and he had been apparently perving on me in TV week,
which I didn't know. I just sort of started a
fledgling television career and I sat next to Paul Hogan

(02:51):
at a footy event for one of the networks, I
think it was seven, and we hit it off. And
at the time they had only a guest actress every
month on the Paulhiggan Show. So Paul reported back to
John saying, I met that Delving Delaney. She's a bit
of all right, mate, you'd like her. I think we
should have her on the show. So as a result

(03:12):
of that, when I was in this pub and my
date went to the toilet and his date, I don't
know where she was, but he left her to come
over to me and he said, oh, you don't know me.
I'm John Cornell. I produced the Paul Hogan Show. Would
you like to be on it? And I just dropped

(03:32):
to the floor pretty much and said yes please, because
that was probably the biggest break that I could have
had at that stage of my career. And so a
couple of months later I was up in Sydney doing
the rehearsal and saying yes to every single thing that
he asked me, could I play, even though I'd never
done any of them, because I didn't want to lose
my chance. So that's how we met, and that's how

(03:55):
we started a romance a couple of months after that.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
What is it attracted to you? You to him when
you first met him? What was the his sense of humor? Was?
It was an instant though?

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Was it an instant, instant chemical attraction from both of us?
It's like you read about in the love stories, and
I think too. He was you know, John was ten
years older than I am, so I'd always liked older man,
and he ticked the boxes in so many ways. He
was good looking, he was funny, he was smart, he

(04:27):
was kind, he was sexy. He was all of those
things that a woman could ever want. Intelligent too, very
very very intelligent. Yeah, John. John had the kind of
mind that I could never anticipate. If somebody said to me,
can you you know, can you find what would John
say to that last that you'd have to ask John?
I could never get it right. And so he had

(04:49):
a very original way of thinking, and he was expansive.
He wasn't afraid to think big. Everything he did he
thought big, whether it was Will through his cricket or
the Paul Hogan Show, or certainly Crocodile Dundee. And so
he had no fear, and he had tremendous self belief,
and he had more belief in Paul Hogan than Paul

(05:09):
Hogan had in himself, which is what Hoages is readily
admitted to. And so I think that when you have
somebody believe in you so strongly, it gives you the
confidence to go forward with great ambition, which is what
Paul did because he knew he had John backing him.
And I think too, it was such a symbiotic relationship

(05:33):
that they were like soul brothers, you know, they really
were on the save waveleck and aiming for the same
high things. And they both were great patriots, And so
I think that whole thrust drove their careers and determined
what they wanted to do.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
You said, you're on there. You were featured in TV week.
I sent a recall back in those days. And I
don't know what you were doing at the time. Were
you doing Salent Century or you what were you doing
it the time?

Speaker 2 (06:00):
No, I was doing some other dodgy quish show, quish show.
I did a few dodgy, dodgy quish shows. This one
was called high Rollers.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
High Rollers. It was it's no longer going, certainly not. No,
I do remember you in the Sale of the Century.
Every young man remembered Delvin Delaney in the Side of
the Century. People watched it. We didn't care about the
quiz part of it. We're more interested in seeing Delvin Delaney.
I can now tell you that after forty years or so,
I've never made that admission to you. But now I'm
making that admission to you. So I hope you don't

(06:31):
mind safe now. Yeah, I'm safe now. Now you're safe.
Now that's a better part. But how and you actually, probably,
I would say during that period, or a ten year period,
you would have been probably the most featured person on

(06:51):
the front of a lot of the magazines, Women'sday, Women's Weekly,
TV Week, all the other stuff that was out there.
I mean, you're always on the front of a cover
of a cover, featured in a lot of the covers.
Why do you think there was such a fascination with
you during that period? What is you think?

Speaker 2 (07:06):
What is a vision? Is a very transparent medium, and
I think that if you're not authentic and honest, people
see straight through you. And so I just tried to
be myself, really and I operate from a place of
kindness and compassion.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
I believe in building people up, not bringing them down,
and kindness as a currency, and I think that people
relate to that, and they can they can recognize that.
When I was getting this sounds a bit wanky, but
when I was being driven to the studio in my limousine,
I'd ask the driver take me the back way, take

(07:48):
me the back way through the poorer neighborhoods. Because I
knew that when I was recording that show, I was
going to be trying to sell a two thousand dollars
mont Blanc pen to my audience, and that audience with
those people right across Australia, but certainly inclusive of all neighborhoods.
And so it had to be my attitude to that

(08:10):
had to be relatable to people from all walks of life.
And so I didn't want to elevate myself. I wanted
to make sure that they were on my plane. I'm
on your plane too. I came from a family that
didn't have any money, and so I understood the value
of money and how difficult it is sometimes to keep
it and make it. And so I think that I

(08:35):
think that was probably one of the qualities. I'm a
ready laugher.

Speaker 1 (08:42):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
I had a co star who was a little bit
difficult to work with. A couple of times I did
One time I got him in the nose with a
powder puff because he was being a bit of a
he was annoying me. So we did it in front

(09:04):
of a live audience and he was being annoying him.
So I got this powder puff that was on the
set and just went on his face and all his
powder The director saying, cart cart I'm saying, leave it in.
Everyone loved that because I don't like him either.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Hopefully he's watching, he probably would be.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
I don't know, but you know, it's the truth, and
I don't think you can fool people, and so maybe
that was part of the reason why people related, and
the same with Hoages. People related to Hoax because he
told the truth. He was authentic, and I think that
was also what John was. John was lucky and that

(09:42):
he could hide behind strop yeah and not get recognized,
and people didn't really know who John Cornell was.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
But now stop for those people who don't know, Strop
was his order ego. It was his other character was
that was the character in the Paul Hogan show. Strop
was was John Cornell's character.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Dopey sidekick, as Hogs would say, the forty year old
virgin or a lifesaver's cap at a twisted grin.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
And he was hilarious.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
In fact, in those sketches, Hoages was stropped straight man
because Strop was funnier than Hoages in those particular Hoges
and Strop sketches. And so I think, I think having
this forty year old virgin who was constantly leering after women,
usually me in the sketch was also something very relatable

(10:31):
to young young boys who were watching, like, you know,
I've got to try to get the girl, doesn't matter
how dopey or hm. I'm going to try to get
the girl and one day I might win. And he
did because we married. So that was that was that
was curious because my mum actually thought I was dating Strop.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
You're going to marry that Guy'm'm going to read him
home to meet you. It's a funny thing. I wonder what,
when I think about would you say in terms of
how you describe strop I wonder whether you would know
what it was about you that he found attractive. I mean,
because I find both of you refreshingly honest, normal, both funny,

(11:17):
both creative, and both really kind. You're both very kind hearted,
like not putting it on and I'm not here to
blow smoke up or proverbial, but that is the truth.
That's how you, guys are. That's why everyone loves you, guys,
both of you. Do you think that he saw the
same things in you that you saw in him, because

(11:37):
it sounds like a real commonality. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
And I think too that we're both nature lovers. We'd
spend a lot of time camping. In fact, I had
my honeymoon.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
In a tent.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
And John had a four year old daughter at the time,
whom I inherited as a three year old, which was
not what I'd planned.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
You were twenty three, yes, and so.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
I think that he just could see that I was
very accepting of life and capable of just handling, or
at least trying to, anything that was put in my way. Yeah,
I'll have a go, I'll have a go, And I
think that have a go mentality really underpinned John and
Paul as well. You know, my mummy used to say,

(12:29):
if you want to try something, just have a go,
have a go. You might be really good at it.
And her words would ring in my ears whenever I
would try anything new, And so, you know, I think
that was part of John's way of life as well,
and probably connected us in that attitude that yeah, yep,
just have a go at something and try your best

(12:52):
and keep your sense of humor.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Would you be able to just remind us or informost
like what was the background behind the Paul Hogan Show?

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Like?

Speaker 1 (13:05):
What was the genesis of it? The idea? What was
what was the Paul Hogan Show supposed to do? Present
in terms of the two characters. Was what were trying
to tell the audience? You know? And how did it start?
Was it difficult? I mean you came into it later on,
but you must know the whole story. So and did
have to present to who? You know? Who did you
have to pitch your idea to? Who? Did John pitch it.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
To Channel nine first? And then it went to seven
and then it came back to nine. But John, John
and Mike Willisy founded A Current Affair. They were both
journalists together in Western Australia. John was Australia's I think
still is youngest super A grade journalist, so at twenty

(13:48):
three he was writing a backpage column. At twenty five
he was London editor, so he had a very golden
journalism career. They left Perth to go to Melbourne and
started up A Current Affair. John named it and he
was the producer. And because he'd worked in newspapers with
the likes of Paul Rigby, who was one of Australia's

(14:08):
eminent cartoonists and went on to work in New York.
When he saw Paul Hogan, it's peace that Tony Ward
had done after Paul had won new faces. When he
saw his piece on A Current Affair, John realized that

(14:28):
this is the guy that he'd been looking for to
give ordinary Australians commentary on the week's events. At the
end of the week he had a Friday afternoon slot.
Just once a week. He'd go into the studios, put
his hand out. They'd give him some cash, much more
than he was paying getting paid to work on the
Sydney of a bridge. Put in his pocket back to

(14:49):
the Bridge, and then Mike and John had a bit of.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
A bust up, as in Willisey.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
And Mike Willersey. John left and Paul went with him,
and they tried a couple of things that they made
a special hoax in Singapore, hoages in England. And then
it became obvious to John that he had to have
his own show, and so they did a pilot which
I found in my.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Archives that'll be in the documentary YEP.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Nineteen seventy four. And then it went from there because
it raided its head off because what they were asking
Australians was to be themselves and to not be ashamed
of who they were. And we had cut the umbilical
cord to England by then, well they did. They had

(15:41):
a big role in sharpening the blade to cut the
cord because OSI's were kind of cringing it our identity
a bit. You know, we didn't have much national pride
back in the early seventies. Even the newsreaders spoke with
a clipped British accent, I remember, And so outcomes hoagues
get a viewers. Yeah, let me you know, let me

(16:04):
let me tell you, let me tell you a bit
about what the news that isn't but should be. You know,
let me tell you what you should be hearing kind
of thing. This is the truth. And he did it
with such naturalness and humility and and affection that nobody
took offense to it. It was like, yeah, we should

(16:26):
have a voice, and yeah, that's how we sound when
we use that voice. We're Australian.

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Did you see? That's really interesting? So DELI are you
saying that one of their big objectives of the two
of them, was to give Australians a voice outside of
what we used to being fed through the media, through
the news for example. It was actually giving us a
voice someone who sounds like us, someone who probably looks

(16:55):
like a normal Pussie, you know, like short's the sawn
off shirt that used to have on, the fair hair,
and the look the whole look. Yeah, the boots and
the socks, the workers boots and the socks sort of
just coming above the top of the boots. Was it
was was it the objective to make hoagues some of

(17:15):
them we all identify with which I did as a
kid and who was a young man. And was it
also that he was going to say what I think
or what my colleagues might be thinking, or say in
a way that my colleagues might be might be thinking,
not the way that we're going to get be fed
by the ABC or General nine News or whoever it

(17:36):
was doing the news at the time. It was at
that that's a bigger issue than that's a much bigger
objective than just being a comedy show.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
Well it wasn't political, but it was patriotic, yeah, And
I think that what what they were trying to do
was to and not give Australians a voice, but give
Australians permission and encouragement to have a voice. Interesting because
we weren't being represented, certainly in the media and possibly
in newspapers as who we were, and so you know,

(18:08):
they steered away from politics really apart from sending up politicians.
So you know, if you ask Coaxact question, he would say,
all I want to do is make people laugh in
the most humble of ways, he would tell you that.
But behind that there were also these other Alarican qualities

(18:30):
and laryicn just means somebody who's anti establishment and anti authority,
and at that time of Australia's trajectory, we needed a
big dose of Alaricanism, to be able to stand on
our own feet and not feel ashamed of it. We
still do, yeah, probably probably There's never been another Paul Hogan,

(18:51):
So I hope we haven't forgotten that encouragement to have
this courage to say, no, we don't want to be
represented like that, that's not who we are, and to
know who we are. And I think that was part
of the success of Crocodile Dundee because Mick Dundee was
somebody so many of us wanted to be or could

(19:14):
certainly recognize as somebody that we'd like to meet.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
And know and be mates with, have a beer with,
and have a beer with.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
And that extended all over the world. They started to
see Aussies as being approachable and friendly and harmless and
up for a laugh and all those qualities that we
all as Australians have, but no pushover, but don't celebrate
and certainly not a pushover.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, because we don't want that either.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
No.

Speaker 1 (19:41):
No, John was outside of croc Dundee and outside of
the Paul Hogan Show, John was actually very creative in
his own right as well. Can you just take us
through the conversation of his pitch with Kerry Packer around
Wilshu's cricket. I mean, I've heard this story many times

(20:03):
from John, but like to take the audience through it, like, well,
tell me about it.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Yeah. So, Kerry Packer was a big cricket fan. He
didn't like the way that it was being covered. He
thought he could have done better with his Channel nine team,
so he approached the cricket Board to try to get
the rights from the ABC Tess cricket then was boring
and bland and only covered by two cameras and you know,

(20:29):
very white bread, boring coverage. So they knocked him back.
That could a be in Kerry's bonnet.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
He didn't like that. He didn't like that.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
And so at the time John was managing Dennis Lilly,
who was the world's fastest fast bowler and being paid
less than the guy who moved the sight screen as
in those days behind the players, which infuriated John, and
so he decided to go to the board and try

(20:59):
to get more money for the players. And the board
said no to that too.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
This is a strain creeckerboard. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
So then neither of those men like to be defeated,
particularly when there's honor involved and justice and fair play.
Those guys, they weren't being paid enough. They were being
trotted out as eleven flanneled anonymous fools to pay for
very little money and not be able to really hold
down another job and be expected to be patriots for

(21:27):
their country and no reward. And so John went to
Kerry Packer and so I've got this idea, mate, we
should sign up the world's best cricketers and start our
own competition. And Kerry loved it. And so John came
up with the idea of colored clothing using the white ball,
putting microphones at the base of the stump so you

(21:51):
could hear the players covering it with eight cameras overhead shots,
like all of those really innovative ideas to reinvigorate cricket
one day, games night cricket. And Kerry was just totally
on board and didn't mind being the front man for
it because it gave him a chance to vent off
at the cricket board, square.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Up, absolutely square up.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
And so it was a wild ride because I remember
them trialing all of these other colors for the balls
as well, orange and hot pink and bright red, and
then trying the white ball and seeing what would happened
to it when DENNIESELI did that.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Is his trademark though.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, so it was extraordinary and it wasn't a lay
down there.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
It was failing the Wallsare's cricket initially in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yep, until John went to big l of Mojo Alan
Johnston and said we need an anthem. And he knew
Allan Johnston because they'd done the Winfield ads and that
was a top ad agency at the time. Morrison Alan
Johnson jo, Yeah, yeah, I remember them, and so it

(23:04):
is an inevitable voice. Big al as I lovingly call him, came.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Up with come on as he come on a great song.
And then we got.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Ads on radio and John would go into Channel nine
late at night and say, well, not even so late sometimes,
what ads have you got on? He said, We've got
you know, three Harvey Norman and two Toyota and well
take one of the hardy normal ones off put a
promo for World Serious Cricket. Kerry said it's.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
All right because he's a cheeky bugger John, So cheeky,
cheeky like it. Take a bit of risky, cheeky bugger like.
So they take the risks and deal with it later.
Calculated risks.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, he'd think about it first and think, yeah, can
I get away with that?

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Yeah? And if it's good, if it's good outcome, yeah,
car always a win win outcome.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
And he used to say, you know the art of
a good negotiation is when both parties leave the two
able feeling like they have won.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
That's very good as you can pull that off. And
that that World's Series Cricket song, come on, I was
he come on, that's still gets played everywhere. I mean
people still sing it. Everyone knows it Australians and they'll
sing it at the cricket, they'll sing it at lots
of events. That was a pretty do you think that
was an iconic moment four World Series cricket, Getting the

(24:23):
tune and the beat, it just all worked out well, just.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Turned it around. And I can remember hearing that and
driving across the Sydney Harbor Bridge from Kerry's place to
ours playing it at the top volume I could possibly.
It was the most infectious, wonderful anthem for Australia, and
that's in the doco. I put that in the doco
as well. And when I played it to various people

(24:50):
and I remember that knew all the words, you know,
just stood to their feet. Oh that was such a
great moment. And it was back in the day when
I think there was more engagement by the public to
cricket because at the end of that Addy, everybody runs
onto the ground.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Which you can't do. I'm not allowed to do anymore.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
So it was like, oh, and people sitting on the hill,
and you know, it was back in the day when
things are a bit more relaxed and you could reach people.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I think the song the song, the song itself one
of these I used to always think it was so
successful was because it had like an under score of nostalgia.
You know, it's very nostalgic. The song come On he evoked.
It was very evocative, evoked nostalgia in my mind, like
it made me feel nostalgic about stuff it still darts,

(25:40):
to be honest with you, It's like it was presenting
to me a time that used to be and that
I missed and that it should now be there again.
And I thought the song was like it It actually
brought to life well series cricket because it added that
sort of emotion to it. Cricket was cricket and was
sure were going to buy this play, We're going to

(26:00):
buy their player, and we're going to pay more money.
All that stuff, all those things really important runs in
the process of doing something revolutionary rebellious, which is very
much in the Strain spirit. But the song brought it
to life. Yeah, and John knew that. I mean, I
ask you, did John know in the back of his mind,

(26:21):
I need to get someone like the Mojo guys to
write the song for me.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
There was no other choice. And I think too that
what Well through his cricket brought was identity for the players.
And so then you can attach yourself to something and
you can have a favorite player.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Because you know who they are.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, And so you know Early's pounding down like a machine,
Pasco's making divots in the green. You know, Marsh's taken wickets,
Dougi's clearing pickets, the chapel eyes have got that killer gleam.
Suddenly you know who these players are in close up
on your screen. Then you could identify. Then you've got
a connected audience. And so that's what was missing from

(26:59):
the ABC coverage and the Cricket Board's old fashioned British
style of television coverage is that they are eleven flanneled fields.
You don't know who they are. So if you've got somebody,
particularly like Dennis Lily with his shirt button down to here,
in his gold chain and long hair.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
On his chest, I like him? Who's he?

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Well, now I know, and so you've you've got an
invested audience and that's what part of it anyway, what
brought them to the game. And there were jingles played
and competitions. Can you name the next line? You know,
the whole marketing campaign was brought to life to further
its success. And it wouldn't have happened without that song.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Given John, as we talked about earlier, he passed away
a couple of years ago, do you think that's would
John think that was one of his greatest achievements, not
getting World Series Cricket away, but the effect of World
Series cricketffect of the song, the effect of identifying with players,
you know, engaging the consumer or the audience closer to

(28:07):
the players. Getting more money for the players is great too,
engaging the whole box. And Dice would he if he
was sitting here now and probably AOI I could do
that for us. But if he was sitting here now
next to you, do you reckon that would be one
of his greatest achievements.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, And I think the reason would be was that
it achieved the outcome that he sought was to get
a better deal for the players and to create a
more entertaining form of cricket for the viewers. You know,
John was egalitarian and he was also values driven and
he did things for the good of all and so

(28:46):
that's what drove him. He didn't take any money for
World Series cricket, just like he didn't take any money
for the Australian Tourism campaign.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
This is put the shrimp on the barbie.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah, I don't want the money. I just want a
good job done. Because he wanted to achieve his ambition,
which was to get better recognition and better outcomes for
all of those guys who were diverting their time for Australia.

Speaker 1 (29:11):
Sort of nation building stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
It is absolutely nation building.

Speaker 1 (29:14):
It's nation building, but not unelected. In other words, he's
just doing it on his own bat Yeah the pun,
but he's doing on his own his own back. But
it just came in actually, But because he actually had
a broader purpose in his life and that's amazing. Not
many people like that. Most of us are all pretty
selfish and thinking about what's in it for me? What
can I get out of it? I don't mean in

(29:35):
a bad way, just how can I get ahead. He
was actually sitting back and thinking of these things, and
he had the perfect by the way, in most respects,
he had the perfect host, which is Hoes. We get
back to Hoages now, let's let's just settle down for
a second on the whole Crocodile dundee from where it

(29:57):
started the idea. I mean, the name income from f
start Crocodile Dundee O came from Hoages, nomber. Where do
they think of that?

Speaker 2 (30:06):
I am, well, Hoages because he was we just moved
to Byron. We'd kind of finished with the Paul Hogan
Show Gone. You know, nine years was for me, it
was like evern or twelve. I think for them.

Speaker 1 (30:22):
You were doing at that time, you were doing Solo Century. Yeah, yep.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
After we moved to Byron, and so John was they
were looking for something. John was always wanting to make
a movie with Hoagues, always believed that he had star quality.
So he was writing scripts and at the same time
Paul was in New York on one of the tourism
campaign trips and he was walking back through a very

(30:50):
crowded New York street at peak hour and being jostled
and people everywhere, and he felt like a real hicic
and he's thinking to himself, you know, if I feel like,
imagine how Barney, who lives down the road feels like.
How would he feel? Or even better, a bloke from
the outback. And by the time he got to his room,

(31:13):
he had a story formulated and that was an outline
for a script. He expanded on the idea of the
fish out of water concept to this outback bloke who
ends up in New York City. So all good film
stories have to have a protagonist and an antagonist and
a theme, and the love story was the theme.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
And so he.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
Only ever Hoages only ever writes in block capital letters.
So he wrote it out and block capital letters. It
got typed up and then John took his red pen
to it. And as Hoages will say, he's the greatest
sub editor he'd ever met. He would always stop Paul
from being over lengthy in his monologues or any other

(32:01):
time he had to sort of say a lot of dialogue.
John was very pithy. He was a great editor, and
he had journalism as a background, so he would write
concisely and improve it and keep honing and honing. And
he did that constantly with Hoges, whether it was his
performance or his writing. So he got hold of it
and together they transformed it into the stript that it became.

(32:27):
I read the second draft the other day and it
was nowhere near what the final draft was like. And
I actually read the initial one over john shoulder, and
then he asked me to read it, and there are
a couple of things in there we thought, nah, here,
I wouldn't do that. And so you know, I'm not
suggesting that I had much input, but a female, a

(32:48):
female perspective was sought and so it came to life.
But essentially it was it's Hogues hoages, Hoges Hoagues. Will
tell you that, Mick Dundee, it's just hoages in.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
The bush for real. Yes, that's in the doco too,
because it's real, it's real. You can't you can't. You
can't be authentic, authentic yourself. You know, you just can't
beat that because you can't act that out. It is
what it is. That's right.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
But but Hoages and the Bush is different to Paul Hogan.
In the Bush, Hoags is the character. Yeah, the quintessential
I tell you.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
What's what, But it doesn't matter. He put it on. Well,
you know, it's just really important, really important, actually very
interesting to me as someone who knew John Is. You said,
John took the red pen to it, and where where
the dialogue was too long, he would make it short.

(33:47):
John was, you said, use the word. He is very pithy.
John to me was always the master of the you know,
the ten word response. But it was always funny to
the point and very economical, but straight to the point
and quickly. I mean, there's only one of the persons
in the world that I've ever met that I find similar.

(34:08):
That's Ginge. That's probably the reason I get him, Ginge
gon On, because Ginge can just come up with a
response in a second. Yes, this actually kills me because
you're at a party or somewhere, and he would just
come out with something out of left field, nowhere, and
it is so perfectly positioned. And John was the same. Yeah,
but John will put it into writing for the show.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yeah, for the movie films, yep, that's a real kill
his skills. And I agree with you about Ginj and
Gingji's in the doco too, And that's how he delivered
his pieces. Like when we asked him a question, straight
to the point, off the top of his head, concise, exact,
entertaining and informative, all in the middle of like four seconds,

(34:53):
he just nailed it.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
That's why I need an hour podcast because I can't
do that. He could do this whole podcast in about
ten five minutes or something and it'd be exactly perfectly done.
It is a real skill. I don't know if it's
something you developed. I think it's something you're born with.
I mean it's it's a thing.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
It's what you're born with. It for sure that that's
a type. And you know, when we were in partnership
at the Hotel Brunswick with Ginge, and we'd have these meetings,
are like what what what?

Speaker 1 (35:17):
What?

Speaker 2 (35:18):
Don't don't don't don't say the sums.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
I need to write them down.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
Because he'd be so quick, so staccato with you know,
machine gun rapidity, like just rattling off all these numbers.
And I don't know if that's because he's dyslexic, it
could be compensates with a different skill for being so
quick minded, but he was. He's extraordinary. And and John

(35:45):
Ginge will tell you was like his surrogate dad.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I was going to say, John had a great love
of Ginch.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yeah, and gingj was like John's surrogate's son. John only
had daughters. And so they were they were real kindred mates.
They were, they were had a fantastic relationship.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
And I do remember I remember one time we sat
at the back of the the pub and we're having
dinner with you, John Hoag's Ginch me and I just say,
I don't think I said a word the whole night.
I just sat there and awe listening to everyone riff
off each other. They just John and Ginge and host
just riffing off each other the whole time. It was

(36:23):
like it was like watching an episode of The Paul
Hogan Show, except the gin was in it as well,
playing himself and these individuals, but naturally so fast and
funny like it was. It wasn't scripted, and we talked
about all sorts of topics, politics, whatever it was. They
just rip testhreads of everybody, by the way, like mercilessly

(36:45):
to testreads off everybody. It's an amazing school that you
were able to sit around and live with that forever.
I mean you you sat in those environments for forty years.
Was John like that naturally at home? Was that his?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Yeah? That was a huge part of his appeal at home. Yeah,
it was that we could have these really witty conversations
and make each other laugh and be on the same
wavelength like that, you know. And I think maybe that's
what attracted him to me too, was that, oh here's
somebody that I could really riff with. And he was.

(37:17):
He was very much a dreamer. He was a dreamer
in so many ways that he needed somebody like me
because I'm the doer Pisces virgo to get the job done.
And I loved that part of it. I loved being
able to make a contribution back, like I'll do that.

(37:39):
You know, you just tell me what you want me
to do, and I'll do that. And then within that,
oh but what if we do this? Oh yeah, that's
a good idea, Dellian. So that was tremendously creatively collaborative,
and I think that really added a spark to our relationship.
Though some people would say never work with your wife
or never work with your husband, but for us it
was it was sort of part of the underlying attraction

(38:02):
was that we could create something together and understand where
each other's minds were at to make it happen.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
Do you miss him? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (38:12):
I think that's kind of like why I did the documentary.
It was because I didn't want him to not be
here anymore. And it was really confronting to see footage
of him looking so prime and sexy and smart and
gorgeous in that behind the scenes crocodile and d footage.

(38:36):
But even though it was extremely challenging and I was
in tears most days looking at it, at the end,
I didn't want to let it go. And I think
that when I released the film, I'll feel like I
can let it go because I don't want to hold

(38:58):
him here his spirit, do you know what I mean?
I feel like I am a little bit by making
him feel so alive. He'll always be in my heart
and I have a photograph that I talked to I
talked to him, and whatever pops into my head, it's like,
thanks John, because this doesn't sell like me, so I

(39:20):
never want to lose that. But as well as not
wanting to let him go. I also wanted him to
be honored for his contribution because he was, as you say,
so much behind the scenes and stayed out of the limelight,
didn't want public accolades, didn't believe in blowing his own trumpet.
But I wanted to blow it for him because I

(39:42):
know what that guy did for Australia, for Paul's career,
for cricket, for everything he put his patriotic can to,
always in the most altruistic way, always for the greater
good that needs acknowledging and applauding. And it wasn't just
his contribution in Crocodile Dundee, it was everybody else who

(40:05):
wasn't recognized as much as Paul was, you know, and
rightly so he sees the star. But Russell Boyd, who
did this incredible cinematography, Australia's premiere cinematographer doing a comedy film.
And that's I think a whole other element to Crocodile
Dundee is that it has this grandeur and magnificence of

(40:28):
photography in the outback because somebody like Russell Boyd was
helming that as cinematographer. And even though it was a comedy.
It just felt big because of his skill and his
team like the key Grip Ray Brown and the composer
who wrote a fantastic, unforgettable score. And Linda, who's never

(40:52):
really been asked about her role on the film. When
I interviewed her, she said, no one ever asks me.
They always talk about me, but they never asked me.
I said, will you go for it? Because I'm now
asking you what happened to you in that? In that
whole story.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Looks so she fell in love with Paul and she
did and I mean it, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
And Peter Fayman, the director who's in the documentaries, he
also comments on that watching that unfold because we shot chronologically,
so they didn't know each other at all at the
beginning of the film.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
How did she get sourced? Why do they picked link
Kauselowski her?

Speaker 2 (41:32):
They wanted, they wanted. We couldn't afford a big name.
Paul had never made a movie, John had never made
a movie. That Peter Faymon had never made a movie,
and Linda had never made a movie. And so you
start off fresh with new faces and new attitudes and
people who really wanted to perform, and so John picked

(41:56):
Linda out in a lineup of black and white photographs
and then flew her out here for the job. She
auditioned in La flew her out here for the job.
Paul couldn't even make eye contact with her at first.
He's quite shy, particularly around women. In all the years
that I worked with him on The Poor Hogan Show

(42:16):
and never saw him astray. Very honorable man, a lot
of opportunity, but didn't take any of them.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
And so.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Linda found that weird, because you know, she came from
a background of training with Juilliard, which was a highly
regarded drama school in New York City. Paul hates to rehearse.
He didn't he want to rehearse. So she's wondering what
the hell am I doing here? And she's in the
outback where there's everything to bite you and some things

(42:47):
that might eat you, and she's petrified because she comes
from New York City.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
She had this.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Fear of bugs. She would go and sleep in on
the floor of Peter Fayman's cabin with Peter and his
wife in the bed, her on the floor because she
was too scared to stay in her own cabin. Wow
initially so Peter Fayman spent a lot of time talking
her out, as did I. When I was on set

(43:14):
on Crop, I was still doing Sale until halfway through it,
and then I quit that to join John. But the
times that I got to be in Kackado with Linda,
I was there to comfort and keep her company and
reassure her that.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
This'll be all right.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
And then gradually they just found each other and then
they found love for each other.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
Do you think the movie's more powerful because they actually
were sort of falling in love over a period of time?
Maybe with they I do. Yeah, it was actual love story.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
It's a true love story, and they stayed together for
twenty years, and that kind of thing when you see
that on a screen and it's intangible, you're not quite
sure why you're relating to that so strongly, but it's
almost subliminal. It's so strongly there, but you can't quite
put your finger on it. But there's a chemistry that

(44:09):
comes off those scenes that was felt between those two people.
Because the first time that they kiss at the Billibon
in the film was their first.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Kiss, and it was probably for real.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
It was absolutely for real, and you can kind of
see that in the way that Paul hesitates and looks
at her a bit more and then he kisses her.
You know, it was just I mean, I put that
in the documentary because I'm hoping that people will go
to see the documentary because it will unlock so many

(44:43):
of the things that people didn't know about what happened
on the making of Crocodile Dundee. And we found this
incredible footage and it shows it all, and I wanted
to really wanted to share that with people because it'll
just add such a different to mention lots of extra
layout to their experience of watching the film when it

(45:05):
comes out.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
To get in May, and I'll be watching it again
because of these things. One of the just out of interest.
If I could just get really behind the scenes for
a second when that gets filmed, that kiss, that moment
gets filmed, I'm talking about on set, not in the movie,
but on set, and I presume there's an edit review

(45:29):
at the end of the day or some stage down
after that. Would John come home and say, you wouldn't
believe it, Dearly Lake, that kiss was amazing. It's great footage.
I think he's falling in love with her, or she's
falling in love with him or the falling in love
with each other, which you have that is that a

(45:50):
discussion behind the scenes? Is that an observation and therefore
a discussion.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Well, they were attracted to each other before the kiss,
so we could see that that was happening.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
You can see the chemistry work, absolutely, you could see
it definitely. And how does it work?

Speaker 2 (46:04):
That?

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Would you go to say to Corney, like, you know,
can you see if you if you notice what's going
on here? Like how does a Well Linda came to
me because she do you want to see the floor anymore?
She was I don't know where she was sleeping at
the time, but she was Paul. So because she was

(46:24):
on the floor.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
On the floor, she was really shocked. I mean she
felt this. You can see the chemistry in the behind
the scenes footage in the documentary. You can see this
chemistry building. Oh yeah, there's a glance. There's a glance
that Paul gives and it's so out of the corner
of his eye and she's like, ah, got you. And

(46:48):
Linda came to me because she was worried about Paul
being married and excuse me, she was worried about Paul
being married and didn't quite know what to do, and
I'm I just said, you know you, I've never seen
Paul like this.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
He is not a player.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
This is genuine like he's not playing you.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
And you have to.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Follow your heart. I believe life is so wonderfully short.
You better, you better do the right thing by your heart.
And they did, and so I think that, you know, John,
John swore me to secrecy. He said, this is like

(47:34):
the Code of the West. What's what's on set stays
on set, and okay, and that that's unusual for me
because I was friends with Noline, Paul's wife at the time,
so it was a bit of a difficult situation. But
I don't interfere in people's lives. That's their business. And
so I was there to support both Paul and Linda,

(47:58):
though I never really got a chance too. That was
more John's realm, but Paul knew that I was in
support because of my attitude to Linda. And it was
funny because when I showed Paul the documentary after I'd
finished it, and in it I say that I was
there is Linda's confidant. He went, were you?

Speaker 1 (48:20):
He didn't know? Yeah, mate, but you were just listening.
You weren't eating or you just.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
God No, I was not in my position to make
anyone's choices.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, you're just listening.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
But the only advice I had was, well, you know,
I think you have to follow your heart.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
And he's not. He's not. He's not.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
He's not going to play you. He's going to if
he says he loves you, he'll be telling the truth.
He tells the truth. Paul is such a man of integrity.
I've never heard him swear, except for when he saw
the docco and then he said it's fucking brilliant.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
He liked it.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
That's an endorsement I've never heard justwear. But he'll always
stick up for the underdog.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
You know.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
He's a good bloke. He's a good as he bloke,
so he wouldn't do the wrong thing by anybody, and
let alone a woman.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
He sounds like a person of real honor for those
who don't know him. And that's one of the great
things about the documentary. It's sort of not only does
it give you behind the scenes, but and gives you
a greater context of how all these things happen, and
particularly if going back beyond crocodile and going down to
you know, the Paul Hogan Show, et cetera, and Corney
John Cornell, but gives you, gives everyone context, but also

(49:38):
gives me, gives me, for example, from what you're just
saying now, a better understanding of what was actually going on,
which it sounded like it was a little bit unavoidable
for Paul and heard a fall in love with each
other in those scenes, like like she's attractive, he's an
attractive guy. That there was some chemistry going on. You're
putting put in. They get put in this situation if

(49:59):
you feel that if he felt that way genuinely, and
you say he wasn't a player, there's no reason why
he should be dishonest to himself. And that's right.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
He would now, Yeah, he never kid himself. He'd never
kid himself. John wouldn't let him anyway. You know, they
both of them are always good at keeping people in check.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Each other and me, you know, there was no ego.
They get ahead of yourself.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
I absolutely do not get ahead of yourself, and don't
think your boots are too big. Be yourself, but be
real and be humble. And so you know, I think
that is a is a mark of their measure.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
That's very irish. Delve Angeline, don't get ahead of yourself
very much. Is very much. So I need to ask
you me as the obvious question. I need to ask
because everybody wants to know this the knife scene, you know,
that's not a knife like it was a I don't
know whether it was never meant to be so brilliant
and but it just became so brilliant then went well

(51:00):
that worked or was it was their purpose behind it?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Well that's interesting, you know because even just the other
day when I was reading this second draft the knife scene,
that line wasn't even in there.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
In the second draft, No, was not.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
I was amazed. I thought, wow, that got put in.
I don't know how many drafts they did. I don't
think they did too many because they didn't used to
rewrite a lot. So I have to check the final
draft what number of that was, because that's something that
I would like to know, because Draft two were so
different to the final script.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
It was it much improv going on it like by
no not in those days, if you.

Speaker 2 (51:43):
If you only had eight point eight million dollars budget,
that meant that you could only buy this amount of
film because you shot on film and film was expensive.
That meant that everybody involved had to be really on
their mark. That you couldn't do take one hundred and
thirty seven you didn't have enough film. So that made

(52:04):
for me the teamwork much more collaborative and everybody on
the same mission.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
And so.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
There may have been if there was a take two
or three or four, they might have been slightly different gestures,
but no dialogue, no improvisation, no loose lips in that way.
And so the knife scene somehow, I mean, the mugget
was in there and there was a knife, but.

Speaker 1 (52:34):
That's not a knife was not in draft two. It
wasn't no.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
And then the other really interesting thing about that too,
that knife scene, is that when they were editing, when
John was editing that scene, they didn't have that particular take,
and he knew that it had been shot because what

(52:59):
had happened with that particular take was that Peter Feyman
had said cut, and Paul kept knocking around with this kid,
and he was playing with him and way like just
mucking around, knocking around after cut, and he had a
glint in his eye because he was being playful, and
John had seen that when they were filming, and when

(53:20):
they were editing, that's the take that he was looking
for because it didn't look too threatening. It looked like
ha ha.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
And so.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
That's not it. No, that's not it. There's another take.
There's another take, and it was in the editing room
bin wow, and John fished it out and put that
in the film because that.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Was the take. Maybe you got to just explain how
the editing, how the edit sweet works. So like, yeah,
because back in the day, explain, Yeah, back.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
In the olden days, ye, digital, but years ago you
had to physically use a razor blade to splice the film.
So you had these these reels of film, and then
you'd have, say you had four takes, and they might
be a part of that scene, a particular take that

(54:09):
was better than the take too, which.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Is also on the same tape.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Yes, so you might take that bit out and replace
it with the better bit, and then you splice that
together and thread it through and there it's one piece again.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
So and those people parts you cut off are discarded,
they're thrown away. Well I've still got them, have you, really?

Speaker 2 (54:33):
I've got reels and reels and reels of old crocodile
Dundee film.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Are you going to put it on digital?

Speaker 2 (54:39):
It's all, but I'm still stuck with the physical asapes.
So what we're going to do and through our website
is have aur Crop Collection where you can buy frames film.
Oh wow, bit of memorabilia.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
That's cool, Yeah, very cool. Yeah. The only thing you
have to going to have to get a microfish ready
to watch it, but or something in deteriorated. But it's
certainly but yeah, it's not us frame anyway, okay, but
it's more for the fact that I've got something that
comes from the original movie. So so John had to
fish around in the bin or wherever the cutting floor,

(55:17):
pick it up, and you've got to hold up and
see what works because you can't won't be able to
work it by looking at it. And he knew that
that he saw that scene, you remembered it.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
That's how because he knew Paul, you know, working so
closely with Paul for so long, I knew he John
knew intrinsically what Paul would deliver and what the feeling
was when Paul delivered it. And he's looking for the feeling,
the emotion like that's inherent in that take, and that
was that. It was I'm not I'm not going to

(55:47):
hurt you.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Boy. You know I'm not going to blade your face.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
I might cut up your jacket to teach you a lesson,
but I'm not going to threaten you because I'm playing
with you with my very big knife.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
It's it's interesting to me and for people who talk
to me from overseas and particular Americans, that's the one
scene that they never forget and they always raise it.
That's not a knife, this is knife. I don't whether
I remember the scene or they certainly remember the words.
What do you represents some of the more poignant moments

(56:22):
out of the movie, apart from apart from the knife
What do you see as some of those poignant moments?
Because you've just recreated the whole show, the whole movie,
and you must be saying, oh wow, that was pretty
bloody good. I remember the knife scene, but you remember
you would have seen in this process of recreating, the creating,
the documentary of things that really worked for the movie.

(56:44):
Maybe the kissing scene. What do you see as some
of the iconic moments in the movie, see by scene.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
I just think it's every scene has got a little highlight,
whether it's his entry into the bar with the rubber crocodile,
yes in drug And it's funny because you know, what
we also found was that there was a scene shot
that didn't get used where Mick is outside walk About

(57:16):
Creek Pub in the back of a ute drunk with
the crocodile's tail hanging out as well as his legs.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Of the ute cab.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
And you can't look at the I found the black
and white photo and you can't look at it and think,
what the hell, oh god, that's that scene. And and
so I think this whole sense of arrival was whittled
down to that one burst into the walk About Creek Pub.

Speaker 1 (57:46):
I mean, what an entry for a script. And then
the I'm glad you reminded me of the walking up
to Linda, you know, Michael J.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Crocodile Dundee never Safari's never go out with this or
you'll never come back, you know, like there was this
sort of throwaway the cost of throwaways, And I think
for me, there's not a favorite scene because it ripples through,
whether it's when he's hypnotizing the buffalo brought us back
to the truck, you know, like out of the wild West.

(58:19):
You know, it's just like it's Mick Dundee, whether he's
you know, when he's shaving with the razor and he's
which is the blade of the knife because he sees
Sioux coming. You know, all through it there were these
just comedic throwaways that we're written in the script that
seem really natural, but in totality made that film.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Work so well. And they building his character, always building
the character, just keep building a character always through the movie.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Yeah, all the nuances of you know, the idiosyncrasies that mickhad.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Is that one of the reasons why the movie, the
documentaries should say, is probably going to be so powerful,
not only in your mind, but in everyone's mind, because
it just sort of takes us through what we probably
forgot because we haven't seen the movie for a long time.
A lot of us have seen the movie for a
long time. Yeah, it sort of comes takes us back
through the process. Yeah, that part of the idea of
this is just this is the important stuff.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
A reminder, remember when this happened, this happened to Australia,
This put us on the map. Naturally, it made us
recognized and so don't you want to relive the beautiful
outback photography cinematography. Cinematography again, I certainly did. I never
get tired of watching that footage. It's beautiful, and now

(59:36):
that it's restored to four K, it's sparkling. It's extraordinary.
It's almost better than when it was made because the
technology is so much better in cinemas as well.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Because they can do even the image of the colors.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Everything on the color grade. Yeah, So it's not only
a reminder of that, it's it's a reminder of who
we are too as well, Like, let's not forget that
where these basic friendly people like mc dundee, and I'd

(01:00:12):
like to remind people about that because I think we
for a start, we all need a bit of all laugh.
And it's not a very demanding movie. It's not how
I brow. It's not super intelligent, you know, it's not
asking a lot of people.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
It's not the matrix weve got to try and work
at what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
No, just relax and enjoy it. Spend a lovely afternoon
at the movies with your kids and your grandkids, or
your mum and dad or you know, it's all ages.
John set out to make a movie from seven to
seventy and he achieved that. And so I think it's
just a really lovely reminder of what happened then for

(01:00:51):
what can happen now?

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
Could you remind me of something because I I sort
of remember some of the stories when he was seeking investors. Yeah,
like in America. I think he was in America, wasn't
it was an Australian Australia, was it? What was that
process like? And because you know, it cost a lot
of money to eight million bucks to produce the movie
or maybe more after everything, and it looked it did

(01:01:14):
fabulously well, I mean it's gross what half a billion dollars?
What's what is the world done to today? Three d
and seven million? And it's the highest grossing Australian movie
still ever Yeah, still to this very day.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Even by today's conversions.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Yep. And so it did brilliantly for relatively speaking, very
low budget. But they did raise the money. They'd raise
the money, we did, and to take me through that process, well, so.

Speaker 2 (01:01:43):
John went to his rich mates first obviously, like Kerry Packer,
and Kerry Packer put in quite a bit over a
million and pulled it out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
But because he was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
He was advised by one of his employees who shall
remain nameless, that it wasn't going to work and they
shouldn't invest. And even though he was really great mates
with John, he listened to this advisor and he pulled
that money out. Well, and we couldn't get Hoits to

(01:02:19):
back it. They had somebody in the film industry, a
director of note who shall also remain nameless, who advised
them that it was a second rate script. Paul Hogan's
a television star, he'd never make a movie star. They
shouldn't go near it with a barge pole, like do
not invest in Crocodile Dundee. So we couldn't raise the money.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
Really.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Late in the piece, Kerry pulled his money out, so
that meant that we had to scramble around to get
investors because we had like we were in pre production.
So we mortgaged our house and we went to mums
and dads, family and friends, the cricketer. We just put
it out there as a prospectus. Five thousand dollars was

(01:03:05):
the minimum. My mum and dad put that much in
that they hardly had that much, but they backed John
and we raised the money that way. Wow, so those
people who invested got like a dozen, twelve or thirteen
times their money back. So Kerry was kicking himself.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
Good. Yeah, is because most people just think these things
just magically happen. And I know that it may be
a bit boring the money part of it to audiences,
but it's a critical part of it. And the critical
part of the story is how we raise money. So
you just passed the hat around.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Absolutely, like there was no crowdfunding, There was no you know,
assistance from the New South Wales film commited, like none
of that had started.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Yeah, because that didn't happen until the eighties, the film commission.
Yeahs ring film commission.

Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
So this was eighty five, but it wasn't it wasn't
alive then.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Anyway. I know you're right because I was working in
law from the time. I remember that they government intjudics
the thing where you get one hundred and ten percent
tax deduction if you invest, Yeah, if invest in one
of these things. So there was no real tax benefits
for anybody. You just had to pass it, pass the
hat around. How was it you? How'd you win people
out like your mum and your dad? Like was it

(01:04:23):
just faith in? John and you and Hoages.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Faith in John and Hoages, Yeah. Absolutely. Like in the
documentary we speak to DJO, who was Dennis Johnson, who
was the underwriter for the stockbroking firm at the time
and an old mate of Paul's. They grew up together
in Granville. They were the Granville.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Boys Granville's, didn't you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Yeah, And so he took the prospectus to his partner
and said, there's an opportunity for us to invest in
Paul Hogan and John Cornell. We should take it, and
they did, but they also we're advising other people to

(01:05:05):
John and Paul, like in Excess, you know that, like
so many people who were also going to be involved
with the film, because in Excess wrote music for the film.
Because at the time with Tenba, a lot of people
thought that it was a tax right off, you were
expected to lose money.

Speaker 1 (01:05:25):
That's why you got a the tax section more than
you put in, because you're expected to lose the do
because it's not going to it's not going to be returned.
But it happened the other way, because that's great. But
that's good for those individuals.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
And John was thrilled. And in the documentary, I've got
footage of him saying it felt good to have pensioners
and people like that put a little bit of money
into Crocodile Dundee and get a lot back. That feels good.
And that was his approach to everything, was to make
people have a win. And so you know, luckily for

(01:06:00):
we had a win. He knew that there would be
a win. John was extremely confident about the success of
Crocodile Dundee, which is why he did the Blue Sky
deal in America.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Which what can you take us through? The Blue Sky deal?

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
So a Blue Sky deal, that's when you you go
to a distributor and we got knockbacks like twentieth Century
Fox didn't want to know about it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
You got to explain because the movie can make the movie,
it's got to be distributed though, someone's got to make.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
Then you take it to a distributor to sell to cinemas.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
So we're looking.

Speaker 2 (01:06:34):
He's we're in America and he's looking for the right distributor.
And we took it to a couple and John did
and they knocked it back. No, I didn't even that
didn't even know where Australia was. That we even spoke
English much so a few of them did because of
the tourism campaign, but it wasn't going so well. So

(01:06:58):
he had the film audience tested, which isn't usually done,
certainly not by a producer, and he went to the
same company where all the movie distributors have their audience
tests done. So an audience test is when you show
it to a select amount of people and they give
you a rating, and the rating is normally forty five

(01:07:20):
that's acceptable. It got a fifty three, which was unheard of,
and so the next place that he wanted to go
to was Paramount because he liked they had big, fancy
iron gates.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
I'm going to go They've got money. So he.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Took it to them with the audience test and they said, oh,
you know, this is unusual. It's a fifty three. Where
did you get it tested? And he said, I use
the same company that you use, and so he was
more armed than they were really and even though it
had tested well, they didn't really think it was going

(01:07:59):
to do what it did. They released in autumn, which
or the fall, which is when they usually put their
uncertain movies, and so John agreed to the deal where
they got the greater share up to a certain point.

(01:08:20):
I think it was twenty million, and then a blue
sky deal means that the producers take the greater share
or take all the rest. I think it is basically
the blue sky after that cutoff point and they they're
rubbing their hands together, going, oh, this is you know,
these they don't know what they're doing. We're going to
clean up with that and they can have the rest.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
Well, we had the rest, the rest of the eight million.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Yeah. So it took courage I think for John to
do that, or self belief that, and he pulled it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Off a lot of times. Courage your self believe. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
And so when he went back negotiate for crop two,
they said, you can take that straw out of your mouth.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Now we know what you're up to. I remember telling
us to real fund it. Yeah, the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Yeah, yeah, and they did.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
They fund a crop too, So Deli Lake. Now we're
at the end of our show now, but like, and
we'll talk about where the show is going to feature.
I think it's next week, so I will go through
the details in a second. But given that you've had
an opportunity just to talk through it again, like in
a long form, is there anything in the documentary for you,

(01:09:40):
that is an absolute highlight. Like, what is something in
there that was a big highlight for you? There's something
you discovered that you probably forgot about, or you maybe
you didn't even know about because you know, you've been
rifling through old films and scripts and you know, talking
to everybody and reliving the moments. And I don't know
if you're talking to the directors, etc. Who helped produce

(01:10:02):
the show, will director the show at the beginning? What
are some of the things that come out of for
down Delaney?

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Extraordinary things, extraordinary coincidences. I think it's I think it's John.
When I had I had I joined the crew for
Crop two, I had three jobs. One of them was
making a making of directing that organizing everything. So we

(01:10:29):
never did that because we didn't need to at the
time it just took off again, we didn't. We just
never had time to make a making of So I
had that footage. Didn't really want to use Crop two
footage in this story because it was really about Kroc one,
so I was a bit short of footage really.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
And then.

Speaker 2 (01:10:47):
Even though we'd gone through every single tub, we thought
in my big shed of all the archival materials that
belonged to John that I unexpectedly found when I was
looking for the restoration elements when we were shooting. When
we were in shooting, like we were in shooting the
documentary in one of the rooms that we'd set up

(01:11:07):
of the production office as an archival room, so I
had all the tubs and the old scripts and the
posters and the international posters and all this stuff. And
then we did this observational sort of interview with Peter Fahman,
the director, Ray Brown, Paul Hogan, and me, and we
didn't actually use that in the doco because we didn't

(01:11:27):
need to. But the next day, when we were packing
it all down, there was this stack of two old, big,
forty centimeters square plastic film reels, and on the side
of them I saw that it had Peter Feyman Productions,
the Making of Hogues. And Peter Fehman was there and
I said what are they and he said, oh, they'd

(01:11:51):
be the making of Crocodile Dundee one. And I went, what,
I didn't even know you had someone making Crocodile Dundee
one and he said, oh yeah. John Bowring said that's
why it's got Peter Faman Productions, because John Bowring was
a cameraman who used to do exterior shoots for The
Paul Hogan Show on film, and he'd always built Peter

(01:12:12):
at Channel nine. And so I said, well, what's the
making of Hawgs's Eyes? Just written the title wrong me,
I said.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Right, I could really use those.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
I said, oh, they've probably got no sound. You know,
I don't even know if they'll be any good. And
I said I haven't seen them before. They weren't in
amongst all the other archival stuff, like I don't even know, Victoria,
have you seen No one had seen them, and so
he said, oh, there's probably only one place in Australia
that can restore those. So we sent them to this

(01:12:46):
place in Melbourne without breath Held and they came back
in perfect condition with audio. Yes, wow, an excellent vision.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
And in those.

Speaker 2 (01:12:59):
Film else was all of the content that I've used
for the making of Crocodile Dundee behind the scenes footage
and Victorian I looked at each other and went, John
put those there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Well, you are a very spiritual person. I've always known
you to be that. I mean you are. You are
extraordinarily spiritual as a person. I mean, I think you are.
And you talked about and I don't want to embarrass you,
but you talked about crocodile doneed one being to some
extent a love story between Hoages and Linda. Is this

(01:13:38):
documentary about the love story between Delphine Jelani and John Cornell? Yeah,
this is your love story.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
This is a love letter to John because I'm I'm
compelled to honor him and include him in the retelling
and on his presence. I felt his presence so strongly.
I'll give you an example. We started off calling the

(01:14:08):
production company lucky Ducks because John and I used to
always see Oh with such lucky ducks. And I didn't
in the end, but for a while I was, and
I had flying ducks on the ducks with a motif, right,
And so then we were setting the production office up
and I cleaned the shelves and Victoria's putting stuff up,
and she put John's binoculars from the boat, his boat

(01:14:31):
up on the shelf and I kept looking at them, thinking,
and she said, you don't want those there, do I said, no,
they're a bit ugly. I think we can do better,
and Oh take them down. So she took them down.
She put her hand back up and she grabbed something
and she had a hand behind her back. And actually,
I should backtrack a little bit because just before John passed,

(01:14:53):
I asked him what bird he wanted to be remembered as,
because we've got this tradition in our family. And he
said drongo. Ah okay. And then we saw one about
six months later and I said to him, are you
sure you want to be remembered as a spangled drongo?
Because they're my gratory. I won't see them much. He
said no, no, change your mind. I said, ah, I said

(01:15:15):
what and he said, A cook a barraugh?

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
Oh, that's my favorite. You're serious? Oh a god, you're
killing me. A cook a bar it's my favorite bird.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
And I said why why a cook a barra? And
he said because they make people laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
One hundred I love them first first, to make people
laugh in the morning.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
And the Indigenous belief is that they ring the bell,
they clear the air. The cooker barras clear the air
morning and night, because like a bell ringing. So okay,
a cook a barraugh. So back to in the production
office setting it up, Victoria brings her hand out and says,
did you put this there? And in her hand was

(01:15:51):
a tiny, little white ceramic duck and I said, no,
I've never seen that before in my life. And she
went and what about this? And it was a cooker
Borough feather.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
Oh my god. Yeah, so he was overseeing the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
He's we cooker Boroughs at the most opportune times. I
was struggling with the decision driving from my house to
the production office the other day, and I've got a
home burial plot where John is. I was thinking away
and I'm trying to work it out. And I looked
over at his headstone and on top was a crooker Borough. Okay,

(01:16:32):
that'll do. I'll go with that decision, Thanks John.

Speaker 1 (01:16:36):
I you know, I have this silly thing in my mind.
If I hear cooker Borrows, like five in the morning
before the sun comes up, If I hear them laughing
wherever I am, my house, on my house up in
the borro and Weaver, I have the view that my
day is going to be a good day.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
It's they're telling they're laughing at whatever is it might
be worried about from the day before, and they're basically
there's a sort of stupid. I know he's got no
science associated with it, but it just makes me feel good.

Speaker 2 (01:17:01):
And that's your symbolism, and that's great. And we all
should have this connection to the other side of things
that we don't that we're not indoctrinated by. You know,
that's spirit, that's connection to other things in a different
way that's personal to you. And people may think, oh,
you know, as if John put them there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:22):
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
I had a materialization from John after he passed. I'm
lying in bed one night, I rolled over and he
was there, as large as life. I didn't imagine it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
He was there. He didn't stay long.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
But I've had so many ghost encounters that I know
that there's something else in a different realm that I
have no explanation for, but total acceptance of. And so
whether it's through birds and people say birds are messengers
of the gods, you'll often see them at funerals, or

(01:17:59):
you'll can on some level with an ancestor or a meaning,
which is what you have. Why not embrace that? Who
We can't be that ignorant to think that we know everything, Yeah,
because we don't.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
And you're right. And I often where I fail often
is that I'm about evidence, and I'm always thinking, well,
if the science can't prove it, therefore it doesn't exist,
when in fact, science would be the first to admit
to you that or to us that they don't know everything.
They're still in the discovery. They're just trying to discover everything,
but they just don't know everything. And therefore, just because

(01:18:37):
the scientists can't prove it doesn't mean it doesn't exist absolutely.
And I love that thought process. Yeah, and it sits
out there. I mean, I'm glad you're reminded me of
the cooker bras and you know, I you know, I
have a deep affection for John, always did, and you
know I've always had it like this. There's something that
I felt, I always felt close to when I saw him.
I didn't see him that often, but you know, when

(01:18:59):
it's to come up, i'd see you. And you know,
my my youngest boy, Jimmy, loved him. And I was
telling the story about it before, but I'm not going
to reiterate it now on this show. But Jimmy was
only eleven at the time, but he still talks about
him affectionately. And there's something about when you told me
that he loved cook Brows. I felt like he was
talking to me because that's my favorite bird by far.
There's no other bird in the world gets anything close

(01:19:20):
to Cookbora. In fact, I've got a painting of a
corkabara on the entrance of my house that I commissioned
a lady to paint for me, and that's I just
love them. I just love Cookbroa's. I love the fact
they're laughing all the time. Yeah, and that's a great thing.
He really really liked you, Mark.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
He spoke extremely highly of you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
You were one of his men. Yeah, you were one
that he really liked.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
You know. It's funny, you know, it's funny, you know
when we I can't wait to see the documentary, But
it's when you think of people like John and people
who were close to who were passed us and we
often from my point of view, and probably even the
audience who used to love watching John a strong and

(01:20:00):
who have respect for what he produced. A documentary like
this I think is really important for people to see
because it actually gets you closer to the understanding of
why you feel warm towards that individual and why you
feel warm towards hoagues you know why I relate to
Stop and Cornell. Why I related to the Paul Hogan Show.
I just love Paul Hogan Show. Why I love I

(01:20:24):
love Crocodile Dundee. And you're bringing all these little nuances
out of the show in the making of in a documentary.
I think that's extremely That stuff needs happened more often.
I don't really remember seeing too many documentaries about movies,
well made movies that have been around a long time,
as to what the thought process was in making. And

(01:20:44):
so this is a great initial and I might love
to see the same sort of thing about for example,
Break a Rant or Gallipoli as well, those sorts of shows.
What was behind the idea about it? Why were the
people thinking about these things?

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Yeah, you know, I think I think what I've tried
to do with the documentary as well as craft a
love letter to John and an honoring of everybody who
contributed their little spark to the lightning in the bottle.

Speaker 1 (01:21:07):
You know that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
It takes more than one person to create something as
phenomenal as Crocodile Dundee. So yes, let's acknowledge and applaud
those people. But as well, I wanted to I wanted
to showcase the values that are inherent in success and
when you have good values like true mateship, self belief, courage, egalitarianism.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
I love that one all of those things that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:41):
We should all practice. And I'm not trying to be
a preacher here. It's just in recognition of those values
that are so much in the body of that film
that you can feel it, but you probably couldn't verbalize it.
You don't know quite what it is, but this something
that makes it good, and it's the good. And so

(01:22:05):
I would like people to practice those values, to remember that,
as OSSI is particularly, we have them, and if we
practice those values, it makes things happen because you're doing good.
And so I think that I think that it's in

(01:22:25):
there without being too you know, this is what I
reckon you should do.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
It's just a nod to it.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
It's a recognition of the fact that if those values
weren't in that film, maybe it wouldn't have been that film.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Which is probably why we all loved it, but we
never really knew why.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Yeah, I think I think there's something in there that's
part of the magic. There's magic in Crocodile Dounity, and
I don't think I'm overstating that. No magic is intent
in action. And so it was this incredible intention to
make this terrific film that really showcased Australia and Australians

(01:23:04):
and those guys everybody on that film put that into
action and then you know, you brew the cauldron and
off she goes, and it affects everybody in a really
good way if it's well intentioned. And I think that's
what happened there with that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
That is such a good summary of the whole thing. Seriously,
did you rehearse that he's made up on the spot?
You just channeled him. He just come through it? Well?
To see where so you can purchase tickets to the
screenings next week. So we're going to put this up
on Thursday, that's tomorrow. You and I are filming this

(01:23:40):
on a Wednesday. There's going to be the screenings and
next week in the and we're going to put in
the links below in the show notes, so anybody wants
to know where to buy tickets and where the film
has been shown, you can go see it. It's going
to be in cinemas from the twenty sixth of March,
is that's correct? Seven twenty seven of the March and
the screenings nationwide, Yeah, across the nation. If you want to,

(01:24:03):
you can go to Kismet Movies. That's k I S
M E T M O v I E S Kismet
movies dot com website Define screenings near you. Delvine is
being absolutely awesome to have you here.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Thank you for having me. I've enjoyed myself very much.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
Thanks for reminding me of the wonderful love story between
you and John, and thanks for reminding me of mile mate. Yeah,
the cooker barro man calling, I call them Corny Burroughs,
now Corny Burroughs. I love it. Thanks Deli, thank you

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#176 Delvene Delaney: The Untold Story Behind Australia’s Most Iconic Film - Crocodile Dundee

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#176 Delvene Delaney: The Untold Story Behind Australia’s Most Iconic Film - Crocodile Dundee