#182 Michael Hooper on leading the Wallabies & life beyond the game

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, my Boris and this is straight Talk, my Luba.
Welcome to straight Talk.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Thank you for having me. How good?

Speaker 1 (00:06):
How you feeling?

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Well? A little bit tired.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
I was on got late, got in late last night
from Dubai. There was a sevens tournament up there, so
I was up there doing a bit of stuff with
HSBC which was in commentary or a bit of commentary,
a bit of rugby stuff. So sevens competition. The sevens
kicked off their their competition for the year, so big
event up in Dubai, which was yeah, cracking, cracking stuff.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
It's mad up there isn't it like the stuff that's
going on in the Middle East, like Saudi Dubai, Abadhabi.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Do you have a look around, mate, I didn't.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
I wanted to get to the wavepool that Kelly's just
opened up in Abu Dhabi.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
But no, we were. We were in Dubai.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
But the event was cricket, rugby seven's like you know,
there's a heap of stuff going on some a big
concert right at the end of it.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, it was, I do so.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
So I actually sat with I had breakfast with the
maid of mine, Ginge David Ginjel, and he went to
the wave pool last week, which one in but I
did that new one. There's no hotel book built there,
but it's just the facility. He said, it is unbelievable.
And he showed me some videos of him on some
waves and he went up with the Morbid Blokes and

(01:11):
the Team Blakes and they booked the whole joint out
and he said, he said, you just he said, the
places on steroids. He said that whle between Abadabi is
like an hour and a half between that and Dubai.
He said, just driving through you're not driving through Disney
where you're driving through Disneyland on steroids. It's mental. Every
facility you can possibly imagine for anyone in the world,

(01:32):
sporting fun, recreation, hotels, bills and middle of the desert,
like everything is mental.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
They were in a mall that had an aquarium in it,
like genuine sharks in the aquarium and then you're just
walking past and buying something nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, made it's remarkable, great place.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yeah, So what are they doing in terms of rugby sevens?
So what's what's going on there? What was was.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
This just the start of Ruby Sea started the tournament, So,
I mean their last big thing was the Olympics. So
it was quite an interesting one because as always new seasons,
new sort. After that end of the four year period,
there's a new cycle. So yes, seven's kicks off, they
go you know through they're down to Cape Town this week,
but then they'll come to Perth, Hong Kong and I
think end up Singapore and La So that's their tournament.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
That's pretty cool. So you try to get to rugby
seven's the Olympics tried.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Ye A keyword what happened? Maybe it's a hard game.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
So it came into the Olympics twenty sixteen, probably before that.
Arguably before that it was a little bit specialist, but
not a special specialist as it is now. It's bloody hard,
different energy source, different skill set. They are real generalists
in what they have to do. They've got to pass,
they've got to be super fit. They're all agile and
a twenty two a fast, yeah, and twenty two years

(02:44):
old and I'm thirty. I tried to do it at
thirty two and had never played before, played two tournaments
and yeah, I had had a good first.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
Game and I went downhill from there pretty quick.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
So is a gas?

Speaker 2 (02:57):
What's that?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Did you? Is? It the amount of gas you have
do you have to have to play sevens? Or is
it the speed of the game.

Speaker 2 (03:02):
What is it?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, I was a fit fifteen's player. I had a
good engine in fifteen's footy. But in sevens it's the
repeat speed and being fast but then being able to
repeat it and repeat it, and then the skill set.
The ball moves differently to you know, it's still tackle,
it's still past, still scrum and line out, the things
that we know about footy, but it's just the ball
moves different and it's hard.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
It's yeah, it's fast. I was underdone.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
There's so much more space. Yeah, because there's less people obviously,
but there's so much space and it looks like, you know,
you get to run a lot further than would in
a fifteen's game.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, a lot further than you would. And you know,
I'd been playing a certain way for fifteen years and
then I had to try and undo that, undo that
sort of subconscious way of how I entered the field,
and I struggled.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
I struggled, so I got better.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
As I think if I had a little bit longer,
we would have got a bit closer. But no, not
to be it would have been cool. The guys end
up going coming forth in the Olympics, so it would
have been nice, But no, no, dice.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
One of the one of the Rooster's recent recruits, which
is the team on the I on the board of
is Mark. He played in the rugby sevens in in
the Olympics and Paris Mark and a W a Q
And I cannot spell the rest of his name, and
I cannot.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Brounce it.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
No longer ne to us, and he's How do you think,
because you know between the two has been a lot
of switching. You know, we had Joseph Lee recently he's
gone that way to rugby, and now we've got someone
like Mark and rugby league. How do you think that
sort of transition occurs. I always thought someone like Rocky

(04:40):
Elson would have been a great roguy league player. I
just I just thought it's something about him. I think
you would have been too tough. You've got to be.
I'm not saying rugby union is not tough, but there's
got to be a lot of there's a lot of
physical consequence the rugby league. When you've got the ball
on your own and you've got to hit it up
and you always sort of pretty robust physically robust bloke.
What do you think about that change over between either

(05:02):
lead ROBUNI or roby in and rugby league. Let's took
rugby Uni rugby league first.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Going rugby union to rugby league.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Well, I think I think it takes Oh well, I
think Mark Marky's the I mean the picture boy for it.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
I mean, his first game is unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (05:13):
I played heaps with Mark and I think the gift
that Marky has well, he played a little bit of
league growing up, well, a lot of league growing up,
but his athletic ability, he's able to get leap. You know,
he's one of those guys kind of like Israel, right
that just sort of levitates up. Everyone else jumps, but
they just glide up.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
And have hang time. And I loved how hungry he was.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
For some of his carries off the line. You know,
he goes plays what is a Holden cup The game's below.
So he's managed by the same manager that I am,
so I was seeing some of his cut performances and
then you know, his debut there for the Roosters and
it's going to you know, he was carrying those hard
ones off the off the try line. Look, I don't
think there's anywhere to hide on the rugby league field.

(05:56):
Can you watch a game of Origin and I don't
think there's.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
A tougher game.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Orange you know played like and you know played a
lot of rugby and rugby is a tough game, but
it's tough in a different way. I think rugby league
is probably tougher and.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
There's no hiding.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Well you carry, You've got to carry off your off
your try line like you've got five guys after you
and you can't you can't hide.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
You know the play is going to come your side.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
It looks I would love to have a crack at it,
but yeah, it looks. It's a brutal sport.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
How about the other way? So Joseph Sali's has now
gone from rugby to playing for Australia. Anything has been going.
It was looking at that first two games.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
Again similar to Markie right, like he's he played a
fair bit of union at school. Was that one of
the great big rugby schools in in Sydney.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (06:50):
Uh, And obviously that whole week around that England week,
I was I was very surprised that he was selected
big call to make, and he did so well. Like
man kid again, has that ability to levitate, has that
time in the air, looks like an incredible athlete, looks
like his preparation. I mean I heard him on this show,
and just the detail he has for a young man,

(07:13):
ye twenty one in his preparation is leaps and bounds
ahead of many twenty one year olds that I've ever
seen myself, included you know, the way he's going about
his business at that time.

Speaker 2 (07:26):
So I mean he is going to be going to
be immense.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
You mentioned is he israelh flow and I just want
to touch on that for a second, if you don't mind,
I don't want to get into politics, but let's call
it the politics of censorship. You would remember what happened.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
I've forgotten actually completely.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
I'm going to remind you, but Israel sort of like
got outed playing at the highest level of rugby union.
I don't even know what he's doing now, but one
of the most was seeing like rugby rugby or rugby
lee doesn't really matter rugby, you know, competitors that are
both both codes. Ever, shown how easiest is to fall

(08:13):
out with the administration of a game and how relevant
is the administration and if you're a player, do you
have to conform or what's the deal.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's an interesting I mean, that is such a broad topic,
right because who are the most supported I guess entities
in the world. Is actually the athlete, not the teams
a lot of the time. So the biggest followed and
supported people around the world, your Ronaldo's or your long
bron James's or you know, people within the teams, the
stories within the not the teams themselves. I mean you're

(08:45):
maybe a man you or you know a Yankees or
something like that. You know, household names, they're up there,
but they still don't have the same type of followers
that some of these individuals have. So getting that balance
right of how do you allow someone to be themselves
and represent the community that they represent and fit within
a team is a trick. That's what the team's all about.

(09:05):
How do you get that balance balance right? You know,
with all we see it in all different situations, and
I think rugby's a really tough one, isn't it, And
sport in general, because when you're a paid athlete and
I'm not making any excuses for people and you know,
myself included up you know, made mistakes and publicly made
mistakes as well, So I'm part of this as well.
But you're a well paid young man in a team environment,

(09:29):
trying to find your way at twenty twenty one years old,
with pressure, ego, expectation, all these things, immaturity, immaturity, and
we expect people to be finished products and we're kind
of surprised that we're not. So, you know, I think
it's it's inevitable that mistakes are going to be made
and going to happen, whether you know people deem them

(09:51):
as mistakes or not. But how do we then allow
well not you know, you don't want to cancel someone
because of one thing that's done. How do you then
bringing you know, second chances are super important in life
because you know, there's guys out, guys and girls making
mistakes every weekend. That's how you learn and you grow
as you make a mistake and you go again. You
just want the mistakes not to be super grand. And

(10:11):
I'm not talking about the Israel Filao thing here. I'm
more gone on a broader spectrum when it comes to
you know, being out in public or comments made on
social media, you know all those type of things.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
But do you think there's a level of or should
there be a level of responsibility to a sports person
who is getting paid good money that cuts across their
own belief system? Do you think is that? I mean,
is that a fair thing? Do you think explain that
more to me? Like Israel's view on homosexuality relative to

(10:49):
his religious beliefs, which he seems to be fairly strident about,
there was an expectation that he didn't take that into
the public are in it because he had he's a
representative player on good money. It brings potentially brings a
game and a disrepute because the administration of the game
believes that has a different belief system and more majority

(11:14):
belief system. That is, you know, there's nothing wrong with
homosexualities except that blah blah blah. And therefore, if you
go and say something that's against our group belief that's
going to be a problem for you. Ultimately you Israel,
which is sort of what happened, and I'm not asking
you for do give me an ethical view on between

(11:35):
his beliefs and what the Rape Union beliefs are. I'm
not a territory, No, that's not territory. I want to go
to it. But as a sportsperson, a young sports person
who firmly believes in anything, is it important or how
important is it for the administration and tell him how
to speak publicly?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Well, it is important, But how that's managed, because again
we're talking about athletes who represent a community, and that's
a good thing as long as it's you know, a healthy,
positive discussion and you know, so how that's communicated. You
want different that's the great thing about a team. You've
got different personalities and represent different things. And but the

(12:16):
communication and how that's then portrayed is probably the discussion
that you know, I'm not sure who's nailing it at
the moment. I haven't digged deep enough into it of
the sports around the world that really nail this this
type of a thing. So yeah, I mean, I'd like
to know how it's how it's done best, because yeah,
it's tricky.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
It's tricky water, it really is.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
You know, in some respece it can stuff someone's career.
But a lot of people just say, listen, I get it.
I'll hold my views myself. I've got my views of
my community views. I'll just put my I'll prosecute my
community view, my view within my own community, and I'll
just be quite relative to everything else. But other people
sort of see themselves as so strident that they nearly

(13:01):
feel as they've got an obligation relative to their community,
their personal community, their private community that actually is over
above the Rugby Union community. So you all of a
sudden you get conflicted. Now you got to run in
with Eddie Jones, didn't you know, Like, here's your coach,
and you know if you don't like him, he doesn't
like you. It sort of limits your career to some extent,

(13:22):
and it did to some extent. At what point do
you say, okay, stuff that I'll just fall in line,
I'll do what I've got to do. I'll do it.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
I'll do it.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
My career is more important, and I'm just going to
fall in line and do what I'm told.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Well, what's your what You've got to ask yourself, what's
your hierarchy of? You know, what do you want to achieve?

Speaker 3 (13:41):
If you want to achieve you know, I guess disagreement
with a coach, or do I want to fall in
line because I want to make the team, or do
I want to and I'm not saying that was my situation.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Or you've got to.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Choose where you value your things and then whatever is
at the top you're going to go after that. I
think that's that's the simple way of doing it. That's interesting,
so and I think I sort of agree with that.
Not never been in that position, but like I think
I agree that that seems to be the most practical outcome.
In other words, if you choose a path, then just
that's your path. Don't worry about the consequences because you

(14:15):
can't complain about the consequences if you choose that path.
When you make the priority you said, that's my priority,
God in his case is my priority, and the written
scriptures is my priority. My community and my private community
is my priority, then you can't really complain about the consequences.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
At the end of the day.

Speaker 3 (14:34):
Well, you've got to accept whatever they're going to be, right,
because you can't you can't choose what the outcome is
going to be.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
That's what we like as athletes.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
I mean, you you want to try and control as
much as you possibly can control, but you're never going
to know what the fallout is in a game sense,
on the field, you never know what the fallout is
going to be, you know, off the field, you never
know what people are going to take this conversation for
even as an example, and then how that's going to go.
So yeah, I think got to be comfortable in the
position or the stance that you take.

Speaker 2 (15:03):
But then after the fact, that's what reviews about.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Like you see that week to week in sport you
see that, and like I talked about, if someone makes
a mistake or if someone you get good feedback. Okay,
well do I want to do that again? Do I
not want to do that again? What would I change?
How do I want to go? Do I to change
my values or my hierarchy after that? You know, So
that reflection and review is important, but you've got to

(15:26):
make a choice at the end of the day, don't you.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
And that comes down to action.

Speaker 1 (15:30):
Let's have a look at who Michael who was growing up?
Manly kid?

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yep, local school.

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Where do you go to school?

Speaker 2 (15:36):
So I went to school in Chatswood, went high school
in Chatswood. Just wanted to get me off the.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Beaches, I think, So stay school or a Raby school? Yeah,
same piece, same yeah, so good. Yeah, not a big
Rugby school, but a Rugby school.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Mum, would you wanted to get away from the Lord
and beach?

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (15:54):
You know what's what they say about and although they
also say now about the Southern Shop, and they also
now say and they're definitely missaying about these for a
long time. So but for sure Mum wanted to get
you away from the beach scene.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, well I think so.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
Yeah, I mean when we talk about it now, there
was an element of you know being I mean Chuts
was right on the train line. There, you'd get exposure
to different things. It was a good school day school,
not a not a boarding like I had to travel
a bit to get there, you know, from Choloroid Platto,
so we weren't in Manly.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
So you're on the Plato like you're right in the
heart of the Northern.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Beaches, thick of it mate.

Speaker 3 (16:32):
Yeah, so surfer surfer you're serving that, Yeah, surfing then.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Who were in the were also in the surf club?

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Did Manly Surf Club?

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Manly Surf Club? Okay, so you're on the beach weekends
then whenever you get a opportunity to go and have
a ride of the board. Mum was pretty intuity then
because she knows where she knows that she knew, I
should say, the the seduction of that whole lifestyle. Yeah,
what it brings with it, you know, drugs, party loose.

(17:03):
You're a kid at this stage, you're only twelve thirty
and you go in to high school.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Yeah no, well, I mean yeah, there's elements of the
stuff that you talk about anywhere you go, you know,
rugby teams or surf clubs or whatever. But there's also
the other stuff around surf club the around fit, healthy
guys and girls getting out. It's an early like early
morning community because the ocean is the best in the morning,
you know, so you're spending your time on the beach,

(17:28):
you're staying healthy. Like I think that that's probably some
of the values that a surf club has.

Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like I'm back down there now.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
I train with a bunch of guys on a Tuesday morning,
ranging from seventy down.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
I think I'm the youngest down there now.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
So when I turn up there and it's just you know, old,
everything's got rust on a gym on a Tuesday morning,
and when my knees are a bit cranky, I've got
no excuse.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Mates.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
So there's a few older fellas in there. So it's
cool to be part of that because now I'm not
playing in a team. In that sort of team environment.
It's kind of like this little little guys group that
gets up early and trains on a five point fifteen
on an on a Tuesday morning.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
How good? How good?

Speaker 2 (18:06):
Is that too?

Speaker 1 (18:07):
As good? Especially the old guys. I'm one of the
old guys. So you were you surprise? So what point
did you realize that you could play footy?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Look?

Speaker 3 (18:16):
I represented a lot of rep teams growing up. I
was competitive younger of an older brother, so he's eighteen
months older than me, so everything we did was competition.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Mate.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
So like you know, if we're out in the surf
and I see him catch a good wave, I'm not
looking because he might check in and you know he's
got one up on me. And you know, we didn't
play a lot of footy in the backyard. But you know,
even stuff like we're playing, you know, PlayStation games, you'd
have to play together because if we're playing against each
other it would end in not fights, so we aren't fighters,
but arguments and just you know, like a saltiness for

(18:44):
a little bit. So yeah, it was always games that
would do together and stuff like that. But look, I
think being the younger of an older brother naturally you
just become super competitive. So in terms of rugby, like
it was a sport, I like the physicality of it.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
We always you always solid.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Yeah, I was doing well.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
My dad's of a palm originally, so he came out
and landed in Manly and as you know poems do,
or you do when you turn up somewhere. The beautiful
thing about rugby is you get involved in that community.
And you know, he credits being involved in that sort
of manly circle is giving him, you know, a life
out here and his network and his friends and you know,

(19:22):
meeting my mum eventually, who was from Concord in the West.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
You know, so.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
We very much, you know, that's why they we're part
of the surf club, part of the Maley Marlins and
that sort of thing. And in terms of becoming good
at footy, like I think I loved the Wallabies and the
Wallabies when I was growing up. Ninety nine World Cup
two thousand and one, I go and watch them beat
the Lions in the Third Test, which we've got coming
out next year, which is hugely exciting. Two thousand and three,

(19:48):
I went to the semi final where they beat the
Kiwi's Sterling Mortlocke famously takes intercept and runs. I was
at the stadium when that happened, so fond memories of rugby,
but never I thought that, Okay, that's something I'm going
to do. It was very much like I love the game.
I love competing and at each level you get to
or for me very much it was okay, this is

(20:09):
a new chance to test myself. And then when you
get comfortable and you feel like you play well and
play well consistently, then you're like, okay, well what's the
next level look like? And it just goes on and on.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
So was there somebody that you were looking up to? Like,
I mean when I was a kid, I was in
rugby league terms, I always idolized as a couple of
particular individuals who were playing in the cannery banks and
combat those in those days, and to be all kid like,
you know, I sort of pretended to be them. And

(20:41):
was there some of you idolized in rugby terms?

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (20:44):
There was probably three players, so George greg and Stephen Larkham.
Now the nine ten. I've never played nine to ten,
But I just I thought that combination was amazing. But
the guy in particular that played my position was George Smith.
So George Smith, he actually went to school right near
my house at Chromer, so I was a Colorio Plato
grew up. He was down at Cromer at high school.
Played for Manley Marlins, again my club, so you know,

(21:05):
there was that connection of where just location right right.
And what I loved about George was he had impact
on both sides of the ball. So I think some
of the times the criticism of players in played the
same position as I do, as you you're either defensive
or all attack. And I liked with George that he
had impact on both sides of the ball and he

(21:26):
was consistent. You know, it wasn't rocks or diamonds every week.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
It was just amazing.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
So he was down at the Brumbies and I finished
school and went down to the Brumby side, you know,
a season and a bit with George, which was really cool.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
So was that around It was Timmy McGann around those days?
Was Tim mcgahann, No, No, it wasn't. He was before you. Yeah,
he's much before you. Okay, So a couple of because
did you ever get do you ever get because he
went off to play West Tigers? Did you ever get
produced in the thing I go play rugby league?

Speaker 2 (21:57):
No? Not not.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
I was looking at you, I can see you and
playing at as a back roll or as a lock.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
I would have loved to, yeah, but I was so
hell bent on being a part of a Wallaby team
and a war Tarz team and trying to get take
try and win a World Cup, try and win a
blooders Low. And it wasn't until later in my career
that you go, what could I have had a little
lock at that? But yeah, you know it's easy to

(22:25):
say now, but I think the right time would be
like what a maybe Mark and Joseph for doing it
well younger than.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
I have in the twenties.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, but like you know, mid.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Twenties, twenty six, twenty seven, you're right, physical leader, at
a really good spot to do it. You're hungry, you
know what your game and mentally your game can look like. Yeah,
there's going to be different elements of what you need
to do on the field, but mentally you know what
you're about. I reckon that would have been a good
time to do it.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
So who is your favorite player to play with.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
I've got plenty of Bernard Foley, Rob Horn, Nick Pipps,
Adam Ashley Cooper.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
Why pick one? Unto me? Why?

Speaker 2 (23:03):
Oh? Good?

Speaker 3 (23:03):
Like they're good friends, good friends. But I loved playing
with guys who were consistent and competitive. They would just
get on the field and it meant.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
A lot to them in that they want to win.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
Yeah, I wanted to win. That's infectious to be around.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Like there was a there's a group of guys you know,
rugby hasn't been you know really, I mean the top
of the log for a for a fair while now,
so part of a crew going hey, let's do our
absolute utmost to try and get there now. It was
a huge exciting prospect and it was tough, you know,
like it's super competitive to try and get there and stay.
There's a difference between you know, one off good good

(23:40):
win here. But to have consistency over a long period
of time, that's really hard. And that's what we're trying
to trying to do as a team. And being involved
with your Michael Checks, your Dave Rennies, like you know,
great coaches. Respectfully, that's what they wanted. It's a lot
of fun to be a part of. That's why I
played like it's a it's a tough game. Yes you well,

(24:00):
you're well paid, Yes you get to play footy for
a living, all those sort of stuff, But might as
well do it. You might as well rip in and
try and try and get a couple you know, wins
along the way.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
But how so because you know Austray and Ruby starting
to show some signs now, but prior to more recently
it was a leak looking a bit sorry. How important
is it for four or five guys in aside to
say we're going to win this, We've got to get it,
We've got to get it together. I mean, does that
start with a coach or does that start with let's

(24:31):
call it the senior guys, or not even senior guys,
just the team, four or five guys saying, listen, we've
got to win this next whatever it is, this next series,
whatever series is, and take it upon yourselves to do it.
Was that something that you guys were doing like in
your environment?

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Oh, I tried to, tried to. I don't think we
didn't get it right.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Definitely part of a group that got it right once
and almost twice. It got into the final of twenty
fifteen World Cup. We won super title in twenty four
team with a bunch of those guys that I mentioned.
You know, so, look, it's going to take everyone within
a squad to win something proper.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Does it mean everyone's going to get on board, everyone's
gonna have the same magnitude or is it just is
there a small group that sort of drags everyone together
along with it like a comet. You know, there's the
comment there's a tail and the gravity of the comet
pulls the rest. I mean, because I can't imagine trying
to get fifteen guys or a whole squad whatever that is,
twenty odd twenty odd guys all on the same page,
like all beers keen to do something as the next bloke.

(25:35):
If you get four or five, I can see that happens.
Like in Roby La, your spine wins your games and
you get all the rest of support, but just a
good spine to win the games. You've got Penrith for
good Melbourne and that's probably been the same for a
long long time. In rugby union, is there any sort
of equivalent in terms of not necessarily a spine but
just in terms of the leadership group, the senior team,
the senior guys.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Yeah, I think a spine's relevant in terms of, you know,
the importance of having you know, the right positions on
the real influential positions on the field lockdown.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
So I think, what are they? What are they in rugby?

Speaker 3 (26:06):
Oh, I mean at this day and age, it'll be
a tight head prop tight head lock one or two.
Good back rowers nine to ten are always going to
be important. And then I'm probably gonna get slaid for this,
but you know, because everyone every position is important.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
But yeah, then you know.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
A backfield player, backfield player being sorry, a winger, fullback
wing actually probably know you wingers. You could probably actually
a center, a really good center twelve thirteen center.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, really a center. It's not a fullback.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Well, I mean that's.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Interesting because you know, rugby leg is a bit opposite
them because you get to fed the ball every fifth
tackle or the fullback, so you need something that could
take the ball up every every fifth tackle. But there's
a different game. But rugby union a center because that's
interesting because they've got they've gone and sign of Joseph
as a center and I'm just wondering whether that is
the game plan, that is the thinking right now.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
For him As a center, well, I mean he's got
the athletic prowess to play anywhere.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, I mean it's one of the luxuries. Bad enough.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
He's big enough, strong enough, agile enough, looks switched on
enough to be able to get it all together.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Center's really hard. Defensively, you're very You have.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
To be a very as a defender.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
You mean as against and well both both, but as
a defender you are a critical part in communicating what's
going on. You've got a bit more time, so you've
got vision, so you've got to make decisions around you know,
you know the numbers you have where you are on
the field. So it's a really nuanced position.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
That's thirteen. Yes, so senator's called thirteen. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
At center, you're calling defensive positions. You're saying, hang on,
move across here. You mean, from that point of view
as a team that's not called the team manager, but
as a defensive manager like full back and rugby league
is that person because he's always direking the position or
she if its general w but where he's drenking everyone
into position because they can see everything from there. But
you're saying center and rugby union is really important in

(28:10):
that regard. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Wow, that's interesting.
So therefore center is like a sort of like a
spine player for rugby union.

Speaker 3 (28:18):
Yeah, and like I mean the thing, I don't want
to say, you have to have those positions, but you know,
I mentioned those guys up front because if you don't
have a good set piece, you're not going to win
test Rugby mentioned your nine to ten, the quarterbacks of
the game, they get the most touches, most hands on
the ball, so that's obviously going to be a spine position.
And then your communication from yet you're back three, all

(28:39):
your centers, and I'm not saying it's solely a thirteen
or it's solely a twelve. We saw Israel go through
the wing. His first debut was on the wing, scores
a double in you know, Alliance test match. So he
went through the wing, went to fullback, tried center, so
he was moving around a fair bit as well. So
I'm not saying any one of those positions, but if

(29:00):
you have a strong enough personality in and around that,
but without doubt, you're three and your number four or
five are critical just in terms of a set piece.

Speaker 1 (29:09):
So is it do you think it's important in raby
union to have I don't like using the word because
rugby union is even more worry about this sort of stuff,
but like can enforce up front? Oh mate, I'd love
to have an enforcer in every team. Yeah, like someone
and enforce of being someone. Everybody's going shit, I don't
last thing I want to do is have to pack
down against this guy or run at this guy or

(29:31):
have him run at me.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah, So I think I think Bobby Valentini is our
number six or eight at the moments becoming that for
Australia traditionally a Whye Cliff, Parlou Toddai Kefu, guys like that.
But I think, like growing up, I remember almost going
to play club rugby and the Wallabies sometimes had to
come back down and play club rugby. And there was

(29:54):
a player, Dan Vickerman, big second row up and he
was a guy that just took people like me out
around the ruck. So if I'm trying to get a
turnover or turn over the ball, I would have been
you know, eighteen nineteen at this point and this is
what this guy did and he you know, would break
guy's ribs, he'd hit you. And this was when the
game there was a bit there wasn't camera angles on
every play like there is now, so you could get

(30:14):
away with a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
Oh yeah, big guy, Yeah, like one of the big locks,
you know, big locks. And that was his role, just
to find you at a run.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
And I'm like, before the game, I'm thinking, and I'm
playing for man leaguers going to I think he was
Sydney Union player. You're thinking, like he's taking up mental
space before you've even played the game. Yeah, and you're
looking for him, Well you're looking for him, or if
you're not, and he finds you in the game, well
you're definitely looking for him after that. So, without doubt,
I think there's a place for that. And you know,
that's a tough thing with all these you know, contact

(30:47):
rules and height rules and everything like that, is you
don't want the game to you don't want the big
man to be taken out of the game, and we're fine.
I think rugby union more than rugby league's tough because
the game's played a lot at different levels. You know,
you've got the balls played on the ground, you know
whereas rugby league is much more up and down the field,
but rugby union like you could probably slow mow every

(31:09):
ruck and that'd be head contact. So how do you
get that balance right? Because you don't want to take
the big man out of the game, because that's what
makes it awesome.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Because that's one of the things I wanted to talk
to you about. I mean, rules, there's a lot of
rules in ruby. You and I get confused. But if
the point you just made about big men, what's interesting
about that? And and by the way, Joseph Swalley actually
suffered this in the State of Origin game because he's
he's six foot five and he tackled someone who's much

(31:37):
much smaller whether he could could have pulled out of
the tackle or not, but end up having head contact.
And that was his last State of Origin. He only
played ten minutes. You never had to play the rest
of the game. And Joseph is not a vindictive style
of person. That's not his go as far as you know,
I've observed. But it was just by virtual of the fact,

(31:57):
a little bit of carelessness, but by virtually the fact
he's very big, big guy on smaller guy. Rugby Uni
you can't tackle above here above the nipple right.

Speaker 3 (32:06):
At club level you can there's a bit more as
a bit more at a test level. Yeah, but if
there's any chin yeah, strife esally so do you.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
Think that.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
It's not an as not as interesting a game because
it's a contact game. If the big men can't do
their thing and take some risk at that, there might
be some head knock. In other words, I'm a big guy,
I'm six foot five. I try to tackle you. You're
not six foot five. There's a risk in there that

(32:39):
I can't adjust because you might just fall down a
little bit, and I can't just quick enough because all
this stuff's in a split second. My god, like, these
things happen so fast, and then I might accidentally hit you.
Do you think there's too much of that and rugby therefore,
as a result of that, to me, rules around that stuff,
cards you're off for the game, teams down a player.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Well, yeah, I mean safety needs to be first and foremant.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
How do we balance this stuff up there?

Speaker 3 (33:04):
But you're putting yourself onto the field in a contact sport,
so there's going to be an element of risk and
going to be an element of getting it wrong. Like
you said, there's no perfect way to balance a guy
that's five foot nothing and a guy.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
That's six foot six.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
There's going to be some disparity there now in terms
of the recklessness, and you take a risk, you make
a call, well, you've got to try and make sure
that calls right. That's like trying to take a shot
at goal. You've got to you've got to aim up
and make sure it goes between the sticks. I think
it's the same with getting a shot appropriately, and I
think it can be played safe. But we've also got
to accept the fact that as soon as you are

(33:41):
running into each other at full pace, there's an element
of risk and an element of things that you can't control. Yeah,
boots slips out, you know. Unfortunately the Reese Waltz, there's
definitely slippage before Sullly did his, so, you know, and
saying that, I think he surely though, made the decision
to try and iron him out and hit him in
the right spot, but at that pace, and but it

(34:04):
just didn't work out that way. And it was and
it was a shocking one to see. But in terms
of like a perfect storm, it was it was that
I mean, had Reese Walsh carried it the right height.
It's one of the hits of the century. Unfortunately it's
the hit of the century with all the wrong sort
of marrings about it. But there's got to be an
acceptance of, you know, a rugby accident. That happens. But

(34:26):
I think that was probably that was dealt with probably
the right way.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
I think so, except that I don't think it was reckless.
I don't think there was any like. You can either
say an individual intended to hurt somebody and we don't
know what anyone's intent is because we can't look in
their brain, but or they were reckless to the outcome.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
I think he was pretty It was pretty clear he
was trying to get a hold of him, but he
wasn't trying to head and he.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
Totally was trying to him out, but hit him in
the chest as opposed to him in the head. The
question becomes it becomes a value judgment. Then the referee
makes a decision, actually climate a decision that as far
as he was concerned, it was either intentional or reckless.
Either way you're off. But then the game just completely turns.
We don't have in Reragul league where you have in
Reaby Union, I think it's like ten or twenty minutes

(35:13):
later you can send a replacement on.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah. Is that it just a test level or is
that everything across everything? So which makes sense that that's
to me quite a sensible thing. I mean in raby
leion needs to think about that sort of stuff. But
because at the end of the day, the game is
a game of entertainment, and who are we entertaining. We're
entertaining the audience, the spectators, and half the audience. Let's
make the assumption, but half the audience goes on, half
the audience goes the other team, especially in the state

(35:36):
of origin for example. So therefore it's unfair for the
audience to some extent because we didn't see the contest
we wanted to see. We wanted to see at least
see thirteen or thirteen or fifteen or fifteen. I don't
want to see fourteen versus fifteen, And I don't even
care if it's twenty minutes, because that twenty minutes turns
the game. So if you're if you're in fourteen, you're
playing against fifteen. Even if you get a replacement player

(35:59):
on comes back on is it twenty minutes.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
Yeah, twenty minutes. Yea, my legs are gone.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
It's so if the player, if the player goes off
and it's deemed a red card, so he will get
a yellow card, which is ten minutes. And if they
go no, no, that's the severity is worse than that,
he can't come back on. You can bring a different
player on after that twenty minutes.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
After twenty minutes. So during the twenty minute period, the
fourteen side is that they're cooking their legs and every
other part of their body, especially if you're up front,
so you're getting cooked. The guy comes on fresh, then
you do the person comes on fresh and say, okay,
it's good, but it doesn't account for the forteen other
players that are just completely stuffed. So all of a sudden,
I have a and this is a general question I

(36:37):
want to put you about rugby union. These sorts of
rules can affect the audience's affection for the game, and
as a result of using you lose audience. Audience migrates
to something else. You go watch something else because they
love sports, so they go somewhere else. And once you
get lashed onto something else, it's hard to get them

(36:57):
back and game snood audiences. That's where you make your
money because you know you sell. You sell the audience
to the advertiser. The advertiser page the money, the money
pays the players. Players get attracted to play the game
because they're going to get pay good money. Takes Joseph
out because he's like he's a way outsider in terms
of what he gets paid. But the rest of the players.

(37:19):
If you want to get the best game possible here
in Australia, you've got to play the players. Pay the
players the best amount of money they can get. Otherwise
they're going to play rugby league. A playerfl when their
little kids apparents everybody doing that for William cricket you
a top of a cricket players really pays really well.
So and a lot of these players can either play
rugby league and play aflor they can play rugby union,
they can play cricket too. I don't know what the

(37:40):
hell it is, but a lot of sports people you
probably can play good golf and imagine being play tenners
on golf or cricket. I mean, there's something weird about
sportsman athletes that can do everything pretty much. So what
do you think the state of rugby union is, then
do they need to just chill out a little bit
and relax a bit.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Well, I think there needs to be a level of
acceptance that it's a dangerous game that you can try
and make safer. So what I mean by that is
you're like you're running into each other at full pace.
There's an element of risk, but that's kind of why
guys play it, Aside from some of the I meant,
some guys over in Dubai just in the last week.
They're forty five playing rugby still just casual ats love it,

(38:21):
the contact, the camaraderie, all that stuff. There's something about
it that draw, you know, people are drawn to it.
So there's an element of risk, like there is going
in the surf, jumping in your car, all that sort
of stuff, and you can always choose not to play it. Now,
in terms of the product, I also don't want to
see a product where Reese Walsh's getting that and happening often,
you know. So I think that that happened in the

(38:43):
first game, but it ended up being a remarkable series
and I don't know, actually I wouldn't know the stats
around the second and third game. But I don't remember
there being a significant one like that. Again enough so
the players adjust and manage and get maybe and there
was no shortage of intact in that third game. Bloody hell,
Like those guys are taking years off their lives. A remarkable,

(39:04):
remarkable game to watch. One of the best contact sports
games I've seen, that third third one, one of the toughest.
Oh it's incredible, you know.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
So they have a good product. Okay, yeah, good product.
That's got rugby union. What does rugby union got to
do to get an equivalent product?

Speaker 2 (39:24):
Okay?

Speaker 3 (39:25):
So su Ali He's game in England was a pretty
good product, his first his debut down to the wire,
good contest.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Soft hands too amazing.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah, he's got great finess, doesn't he.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
He jumps up and just handle the ball over like
literally put it into his hands like that.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Can I just talk on that week like that is
a big test, Like that's a big test, no matter
what you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Playing at Twickenham, it's always a big test. But to
do that.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Without playing a professional game of rugby union, Yeah, he's
played massive games of rugby league and whatnot. As a
debut game at in a tough spot, we're talking about
the s as being a tough spot and he's got
some great communicators around him in some of the players
with him, Lenny Katau particularly and Andrew Kellaway in that backfield.

(40:10):
But that was an incredible performance, you know out the
gate like that was remarkable.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Actually, and a lot of people I know saying they
want to watch the next game because of that, because
a we won. That helps you.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
But but also I've beating the Poms.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
We do and we haven't been doing it very often,
but you know, winners agrinners, as you know, but watching
a lot of people watch the second game because of
hoping that just would be selected or at least get
off the bench and play, which he did. But like
that's that. Do you think this is a strategic move
then by rugby unions, the austrain rugby union, that is

(40:45):
a strategic way of getting people back to the rugby
union games, yep, or signing him for that matter. I mean,
is this a master stroke by Hamish mcclennan, Like, is
it a master stroke of signing up some one like
that and having a lot of vision that this guy
could well bring the people back to the game.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
I mean, if it does do you think it will do?
I think it will. I think he's going to be
a star in the game. I think is physically too good,
not too but then injury, how the team functions. We
know that one guy can't carry a team in union
or league or a AFL, so you've got to have

(41:29):
a good team around you. They're starting to see some
great shoots in that team, well coached, starting to get confident,
so things like that. The thing that we know we've
got coming is lines is a massive injection of cash
and interest in the country for rugby union. And then
you've got a home World Cup which is just no

(41:49):
home Work Cup twenty seven twenty seven, so the team
has time to build. So that's the third biggest event
in the world behind you know, Soctball Cup viewership, viewership, Yeah,
so massive, massive thing coming into our country in that time.
So it's a hugely exciting one. Now he's surely you're
going to be a big part of that. Well, all
signs point to yes of what's been done in a

(42:11):
very short period of time, But then there's so many factors,
you know, within that. I don't think he's signed till
twenty twenty seven I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
If he years. If he is, like he's got a
five year deal, Oh okay, then he is. So you
know he's got to be managed well.

Speaker 3 (42:24):
I think, you know, you take a look at some
of our you know, other codes around the world or
codes in our own country who manage top line play
as well. We can't just expect him to play eighty
minutes every week, train hard, blah blah blah. How can
we get the best out of him? And you know,
Joe Schmid, who's at the top at the moment, who's
the Wallaby coach, has a really good understanding of that.

(42:45):
Coming from an island background. He managed to do that
with an island team and turn them into a well
managed unit. So hopefully that that's able to be done
with Joseph alongside other key spine guys like we talked
about earlier.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
So if Australia, how do we get I mean, I
mean I had Oils Stevie Oyles and he didn't hold back.
But how do we improve rugby union like at every level? Now,
let's take it right down from you know, winning games
at the on the global level the Australian side, then

(43:20):
down into the you know the war Tars, et cetera,
then down into Rotars, Brumbies and all the other sides,
and then bring it down to the club level, but
then bring it down to the school level so that
rugby union can attract the best possible talent, because like
AFL has got a big march on both rugby league

(43:41):
and rugby union. Like in terms of New South Wales
in particular, you know that a lot of schools don't
they play soccer or AFL, They don't play rugby league
or rugby union. The private schools still do at Midley,
but how do we turn that around a fil in
some of the private schools.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
Now, that's what for me thirty.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Is But is it because parent? Is it because I'd
like to get your view on this. Is it because
parents are starting to think both games rugby league and
rebunion are too violent or too much contact? And therefore
does that actually mean is correct that we should stop
the tackling no matter what that's such that it might

(44:20):
cause a head injury.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
Time will tell in terms of what the impact of
head injury is going to be. No one actually knows
for certain. There's definitely elements of you know that contact
to the head's going to have an adverse effect on
your body, like many other things. But how that impacts
individuals and how that all works within the ecosystem of
someone's actual life, you know. I think time will tell

(44:44):
on that, and hopefully we can get a clearer understanding
and that might be the actual thing that you know,
tips it in the.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
Right or the wrong way.

Speaker 3 (44:52):
But until that point, it's everyone's own decision, everyone's body,
and everyone's way of going about their lives. There's plenty
of risk out there, and risk usually leads to fun
being hard, you know, to a certain extent. If you
don't take any risk, you're sitting in your house in
a bubble.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
But parents made the decision when the kids are young.
So your parents made a decision about you. You're going
to play footy because that's what your dad did and
you're part of the manly scene. Blah blah blah. But
you're if let's say your mom said we should he
said to your dad in relation to Michael, are you listen,
I don't want him to grab you know, brain damage.

(45:30):
He's going to play AFL, He's going to play soccer.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Well, AFL is not a click I understand that soccer,
they can't head her anymore.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
So, but they.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
AFL promoted as being less contact. But by the way,
this is just as many concussions in AFL. This is
a Ruby League and Roby Union. But let's just let's
just hypothetical. Mum says. Mum says, we're going to he's
going to play soccer. School's got soccer. You would never
have got to it. You got to a rugby union obviously,
because you start off for soccer and you become part
of a soccer thing. You might play for Australian in the.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Fat so it's probably fair.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
They might not definitely not so so. And then therefore
Raby Union would have missed out on Mike Loper, which
means they missed out on a player, a good player,
you know, an Australian player, which means they've got less
resources to excel. What So therefore I think both for
Robulara and for Roby Union to less. We said AFL

(46:26):
that all this discussion about concussion, and by the way,
it's very important, don't get me wrong. It could be
an ex extential threat to the game relative to Australia,
how we play, how we recruit and how we play
the game compared to say, say Argentina, or say compared

(46:47):
to Ireland, if it's not as big an issue. And
I don't know if it's as big as an issue
in those joints those countries. What we see here and
the more the media gets onto it, the media is
making a big thing of it at the moment, like
it's become the latest and greatest discussion. And I, you know,
and I see some neurologists now starting to talk about
it about you know, CTE and all these sorts of things.

(47:10):
But at the same time, you've got to the game's
got is an aggressive game, it's a contact game. You
gotta have that because the audience love that. It's an arena.
It is like this, It is putting gladiators in a room.
For me watching rugby union, I love rugby union. When
like that's tough, forwards are really just bashing each other.
It's because you know, it's vicarious. It's not me doing it,

(47:34):
it's watching them do it. I get pleasure out of that.
Sounds ridiculous. I don't know what it is, but I do.
How do you balance this stuff up? What are you
going to? What do you say? What would you be
saying because you're you're you're just fresh out of the game.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
I think the I can see you've got a few injuries.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
I'm looking at your left you're right here here, that's
like it's definitely Caulifler. The right one is about the
same left front. You've got a few scars of the
top of your head. You got a nice cross on
the top of your head, like it looks like like
someone's gone away their swashbuckling pioneer.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Or the eyebrows of copped it mate, they're going to
be rolled over soon. The eyebrows.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
You get a few scars going down. Yeah, yeah, I
suppose you know you've been in the midst of it.
What do you think about the ex extential threat to
the game that you love.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
The game that I love. Yeah, it's it's a real challenge.
I think that the steps that are being taken are
really important. The management of head knocks has been even
in my short time, you know, in the last fifteen years,
has changed remarkably, And that's that's fantastic. The idea that
if someone gets ahead knock, that it's not frowned upon,
that they go hey, like I'm not right and to

(48:39):
really be supported through that process to get them back
on the field that they're not having repetitive injuries or
brain injuries. I think that's that's really important. I think
there's got to be objective measures done on the impacts
and ongoing. How you do that is going to be
the challenge because you can't get any of the results

(49:00):
until someone's post mortem a lot of the time, Right's
g for sure, Yeah, yeah, for that sort of thing.
So you know, until that point, you know, how can
you how can you manage you know, they've brought out
mouthguards that test can cut or impacts.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, the guys that they're they're they're they measure every impact, yes,
and in a sense got a little censor and sends
it back to a control center.

Speaker 3 (49:23):
Which again is not perfect yet because what might affect
you may not affect me, or what affects me might
not affect you. So how does the threshold become safe?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
But they can build up baselines for you, okay, and
they can say, okay, Michael got knocked out and he
was sick for three weeks vomiting with about migrain headaches
as a result of this level of impact. Mark got
hit the same level of impact. But they didn't have
the same effect on Mark. Therefore, for Michael, we've gore
have watched when he trains. Next time he gets hit

(49:53):
like that, we've got to pull him aside and say, Okay,
you're not playing this weekend.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
So really lean on data there.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
It's data driven you and you've got to build up that.
It's not universal databas data a relation to yourself in
the individuals, and I think that's great. I'm all for it.
By the way, I'm not against it. I'm all for
modernizing the game.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
I'm trying.

Speaker 1 (50:14):
I don't want to kill the game, but modernize the
game around the contact. Because this game, your game, the
Ruguy League game, is about contact. It's not about guys
making breaks. It's we love the contact. We want to
see a clean contact. Yeah, you want to see clean contact.
Otherwise you go watch UFC, which again is like a
product to go see it for a certain reason. But

(50:34):
you want to see someone gets you know, smashed in
union or.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
League cleanly dominators. Yes, that's like and that's great, that's
the feeling you want.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Like the one.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
Yeah, we've talked about it a bit, but that hits
not the one We want to see the one in Origin,
So you want to see a clean one because then
everyone's back up, they're bouncing their feet. You've got fourteen
or thirteen or fifteen players still on the field and
the contest goes on and then that just then it
becomes the back and forth like we saw in the
third Origin. So yeah, it's of course it's going to

(51:03):
be a threat, and it should be a threat, and
hopefully like threat to anything. And you can tell me
because you know of your time through business and everything
that you've done, but challengers. Hopefully then you sharpen the
knife for sharpened the sword, and it becomes a better product,
to cleaner product, are safer, but without you losing its core.
And then talking about well, what's the perception or what's
the sentiment around this, Well, don't shy away from the

(51:27):
fact that these are contact sports. There are a contact sport.
That's why guys and girls like playing it. That's the
element of it. And within there there's some risk and
we're working our best to make that safe. But there
is risk, and you know, like you jump in a car,
you're playing on the field knowingly of some of that.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
Risk because it's interesting and I've been reflecting on this
for a while now, and I think rugby league has
actually has actually I don't know if they did it
on purpose, but it has adapted to this process of
what public opinion is and rugby league has become, which
is why we're getting a lot more Islander players playing

(52:06):
the game or fit into the game a lot better.
So if you get back twenty five thirty years ago
or even back further, it was just big tough guys,
you know, sloing it out against each other. There was
nowhere near the athleticism that we have today. But a
lot of the Islander boys they're big, tall fellows. They're strong,
they're very athletic, they can sort of run fast, they

(52:28):
can size step, they can pass a ball, they got
great eye hand coordination, and the game is sort of
adapted to suit them because it's gone away from that
heavy duty clash, which is sort of so now I
think the spectator is more interested and somehow, I don't
know who's done it, but somehow we've been sort of
pushed around to be more interested in the athleticism of

(52:50):
the game and what this particularly great athlete can do
once he or she gets outside a player or can
put a ball on the inside like beautiful soft hands
into another play going three gap. You know, that's a
de Esco type player, those sorts of guys. Do you
think is rugby union starting to move into that? Watching
the beautiful player as opposed to a beautiful game, you know,

(53:13):
the beautiful player like you know, like it is the
Joseph hu Ali. Is that like wonderful athletes who can
just turn on a sixpence as opposed to the tough
basses like you and those guys who are jamming up
the front all the time and just getting belted left
ryan center. Is that the future rugby union as a

(53:33):
spectator sport.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Well, I don't think so, I think and I hope not.
And the reason I hope not is that rugby fits
in the short, fat stubby guy and Israel Philao into
the game and as And that's the really difficult thing
with you know, the argument of the entertainment side of things.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
And you know.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
What the game of rugby is, because yes, scrums. You know,
I've sat on the side of a lot of scrums.
And it's boring to be on the field when you've
got a lot of repacks and there's ten minutes which
is an eighth of the game that's spent on repacking
a scrum.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, that's not a great product.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Or there's line outs and they're confusing around what the
what the penalty's blown for because it's a lot of
the time left to interpretation. But within that you're fitting
different athletes who are really critical. So you can have
Israel flour Sua Lee, you know, Whend will come back
and Lottie come back, all fit them in the same
back line. But if they're scrum sucks, they're going to

(54:28):
have a really tough day of the office. I don't
care who you are.

Speaker 1 (54:30):
If you sitting out there doing nothing, and.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
That, you know, lends itself to the next thing, and
that's you know what we took what are probably a
thread of you know, all the codes in Australia are
but you know when rugby union isn't doing well is
it's not fast enough, it's not enough enough ball in playtime.
So you know, test rugby thirty to forty minutes. Forty
minutes would be a lot of ball in play rugby time,

(54:52):
whereas league averages over fifty minutes I believe, or something
around that number. So in terms of actually action happening
on the field, there's a but I remember playing in
a game. It was a Test series against I think
it was the French back in twenty fourteen. We beat
them well in the first Test. In the second test
I think we might have won nine to six and
not a try score in the game. So three penalties

(55:14):
for us, two for them. We win, and the papers
the next morning, ago media, the media are going, this
is what a shocking game, what a boring and outing
for both teams, for spectator, for a spectator, everything like that,
And yeah, okay, I can sympathize.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
In the UK it was what an arm wrestle, you know,
what an absolute.

Speaker 3 (55:35):
Physical Australian media comparatively to the UK. The UK I
remember because someone sent me going, you know, and I
saw the article. Oh geez, that can be And I'm
not having a crack at Australian media. But what we've
got here is three codes playing consecutively across the course
of the weekend. And if you have a game like that,
and then you see a rugby league or an AFL
game with over one hundred points and league, you know

(55:58):
a lot of tries scored that oh, there wasn't even
a try scored in this game and it can be
an easy right, can't it that?

Speaker 2 (56:04):
You know this game's boring? Could?

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Could that be an explanation therefore? Why you know, England,
Ireland in Wales become much better relative to Australia because
the style of the game and the dynamics of the
game are much more acceptable over there than they are
here because you know, like you say, like you can
watch a fast moving rugby league game here, you can

(56:29):
watch an AFL game back and forth, like just literally
up and down the field all day. You know, they
run all round twenty everyone runs twenty odd commetters a game,
so there's lots of movement. Do you think that might
be a reason why when not as popular in rugby
union terms for audiences and for recruitment as say the UK, France,
Ireland particularly Ireland.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Is well, I mean there's less codes over there.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Less to choose from, You're
less to choose from. Therefore that as a result being
less to choose from, you much more patient as an
audience and media. You're much more patient in terms of
what I've what you're prepared to allowed to happen in
the game because you're not saying and we can go
down the road and watch a game of AFL because
it's really quick and I can watch it, you know,
because all of us have got ADHD all audiences these days,

(57:14):
because we've got so many things going on. We've got Instagram,
the bother, this going on, WhatsApp, going on a conversation
with her, the game, We're sending a message to their friends,
you know, they were all sort of on it the
whole time. So do you think that Australia is suffering
because you have too many choices in relatives Australian rugby?

Speaker 3 (57:32):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I think that. You know, Steve
I think went pretty hard when he was here. Steve
Hoyle was yeah, and look, I think there's been a
range of reasons why we haven't made There's been a
couple of things that have happened. We were very successful
late nineties or early nineties, late nineties, early two thousands,
and since then a lot of teams have caught up,

(57:54):
caught up to Australia, New Zealand, England really through that time.
So it's now teams one to ten World Rugby are
really solid. So we've gone through this sort of patch
of winning fifty to fifty percent, you know in international
and I think, you know Steve talking about the super
rugby teams, I think that balance of the amount of
rugby teams, so you get more players playing together, you're

(58:17):
the competition up, you know, Like I think, I reflect
on my own career, the times that I was playing
my best rugby was when I was in risk or
jeopardy of losing my position. Really yeah, like you know,
that's what you need within I mean, you could say
that in any any sports. So did we get too
thin across that period, I don't know, but I think,

(58:37):
you know, if you're having a forward looking looking focuses,
which is what we need to do in rugby in
the country. But unfortunately the Melbourne Rebels are now no longer.
But you've said all that team's been dispersed now to
all the other teams, so now you've got a closer
I guess you've got more competition for less spots, which

(58:58):
in my opinion can only create, you know, a good outcome.
So I think we'll see next year some of the
super rugby teams doing really, really well because you've just
the push. It's not it's a compounding effect, like you know,
it's not a one plus one or it's you and
me going for the same position. It's okay, we're going
for the same position. It's not get a little bit better.
We'll both get a lot better. And I think that's

(59:19):
what we're going to see happen.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
So if that's interesting. You say about the Melbourne So
you're saying less teams is actually better.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
Well, I'm saying the right amount of teams is okay, right,
An I'm not saying less is better, yes, because then
you'd say one team is good, But I don't think
that's the that's what we'd want.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
So no, And is it? And do you think it's
important that we play we have in super Rugby, we
have teams coming out of rugby cities or rugby states,
as opposed to trying to jam something into Melbourne, which
is not really a rugby and in place.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
I'm actually interested in your opinion on this because we
are a country flooded with different options, you know, So
in terms of a business thing, do you stick to
where you're strong? Do you try and spread Australia thinks
you you know, Australian rugby or we've tried so long
to capture the West and it's bloody hard to.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Capture the West, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
I mean AFL has done well to get get in
there with GWS, but you know, certainly rugby league strain
you know, as a good stranglehold on that area. So
you know, you potentially you go out broad or you
go outside and do you lose where you're strong. And
I'm not saying we've done that or that's what's happening
or should happen. But there's almost a question to TV

(01:00:34):
TV does drive it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
It's like so like so audiences in Melbourne are important
to broadcasters because broadcasts are just sting to broadcasters in
Now I'm broadcasting something on at prime time, I need
to be able to collect the Melbourne audience. Like rugby league,
for example, is a good example. You know they want
to have you watch rugby league. If you look at
the way the draw goes for Friday night games, you
get a lot of Brisbane games because Brisbani play a

(01:00:57):
lot of nights on Friday nights. Because Queensland has love
rugby league and they really good patrons of the game
on television so that drives a lot more eyeballs onto
the TV show on Friday nights, which means a lot
more advertising, so the broadcaster does much better. So I
can understand the dough comes from the broadcaster for all
the most of these games regular AFL reby union, of course,

(01:01:21):
so you've got to sort of try and win over
the broadcast in terms of the money they're going to
give you broadcast rights, so you've got sort of they
sort of nearly insist on having a Victorian team so
that you can get people in Victoria watching the game.
I sort of understand that part, but equally I agree
with what you're saying too, though, well, I think you're
saying with more a question to me. I think, but

(01:01:43):
should we just concentrate on the territory we are in
already and be really good at that own it, because
the moment you start looking at another territory like Victoria,
you're going to lose some of your attention to where
you've already been good at. And the moment you do that,
someone's going to come and try and cut your lunch
and try and get it underneath you, which what the
AFL has been doing. They're just I don't know, they've
got a bigger check book. They've just been better than

(01:02:05):
everyone at it. And they're everywhere. They're in the schools
or in New South Wales, aro out the west of Sydney.
Now they're very good at building the narrative that is
less dangerous. There's less contact, but there's just so many
head injuries.

Speaker 3 (01:02:18):
Well you're actually getting tackled from three to sixty. Yeah,
So the good thing with the rugby league and union
is it's up and down. I know you're bracing your
next you're getting prepared. Unless you're getting a which we've
all had a good shot from the side, someone just
makes a great read and you don't see it coming.
They're the horrible ones, but that would happen a lot
in AFL. You get tackled from behind or you're going
you're playing low, you get you see a lot of

(01:02:38):
the ones that get their head on hips when they're
challenging for the ball on the ground. So again you're
still crossing a white line with contact sport. There's a
risk there. But yeah, to your point, I'd love to
know what the ants would be for all the codes,
and I often wonder with the rugby league rugby union thing.
I mean, I think there's totally a place where they

(01:02:58):
can feed off each other. You know, you can a
market is a market Mark going to come back to
rugby union and is a swillly you're going to go
back to league and you know, can there ever be
a game where there's a cross code game or run
off the back of each other? You know, I think
there's totally an environment where, you know, more eyeballs can

(01:03:19):
be put on if you utilize both of them in
the right way that suits. I mean, right now, the
currently it's it's it's a it's a boxing it's a
twelve round boxing match where it's you know, rugby league
versus rugby union. But I think it's one of those
ones where co you know, they can coexist and bounce
off each other.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Basically they feels in enemy your what you're saying, I
didn't say that, Yes, yes you did. So you're involved
with recovery. What's what you're an ambassad from what you
deal with you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
As initially investor and then as I'm starting to work
out what the next chapter is, Yeah, I'm doing some
workers their health, eye performance and well want to sci
plane recovery Recovery is two things.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
First sip. First of all, it's a couple of things.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Now, first with someone's go cv I, r cv I recovery.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
Yeah, so it was recovery. We rebranded for a couple
of reasons due to Payton's in the US. But yeah,
it's a retail for high performance and wellness. So sauna,
ice bath, you know, compression float tanks, hyperbaric chamber, some
reoxing machines which help with VO two. So right, a

(01:04:28):
range of services there that you know has started in
Couldie with Stephen Hoyles in twenty nineteen, has since gone
to Cronulla, Manly and soon to be in the CBD
just off Martin Place there and the US and Toronto.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
So I think, isn't it La?

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
Is it a c on La Homosa Beach? So opening
host of beach next year?

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Right? Next year?

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
And who's behind it now? I mean who's behind Recovery
the business itself?

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
So the three founders Steve Hoyles, Nick Bardetta and Trevor Fowss.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
And trev Elson being the Trevvelson from Investable Yes, so
he's got a fund, yes, and he's a man Randy
supporter isn't he? Is he a Rondy supporter.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
He's originally through the through the Queensland, but yeah, he's
been here for for He's part of the Randwick mafia.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Now yeah, mafia corect and And I notice that there's
a strong franchise in the one in Kuji. Is that
part of it is the idea to get a plarties
which is the strong franchise plarties type business as part
of the recovery systems in other words, and you can
go and do a plarties class and then walk straight

(01:05:35):
into the recovery. Is that part of what's going on there?
Is that the thinking?

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
So two different models, so strong franchise based yep, but
that was forty five that Stephen managed and managed for
years and have now changed too strong right, So but
that's not the intention with every site, you know. I
think the other the other side of things that that
recovery is doing is a powered by recovery. So we've
got a mobile unit that will go around until events.

(01:06:01):
Yeah cold bath, yeah, cold bath sauna, so that hopefully
going over to the mobile mobile units.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
So wow, they've gone a bag of a trailer so yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Yeah, so that'll be that'll be interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
And then a lot of buildings with their end of
trip facilities wanting wanting to give their employees wellness so
we can come in and consult and do some bespoke
for business. And we've actually put one in Strong Polarates
up up in Queensland as well, so that's great. We've
just launched a hydration product as well, so.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Bits of drink obviously, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
Yeah, sash at the moment and soon to be ready to.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Drink as in as in sodium, potassium and magnesium. Is
that we're talking about? Yeah, any sugar.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
No sugar, mate, good man.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
I'm glad about that because that's important, just having those
three salts too, because hydration is such a big deal,
especially if I'm going to sit money in for its horns. Yeah,
I'm going to walk out de hydrated. So I've tried
the one that's Goujie Weills invited me and my sign up.
Then we went up there and I'm not never sure

(01:07:01):
whether I should go infrared water second, or so go
the cold plunge and go to the infrared. What's your
go to?

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
Well, I mean the traditional, So we try and do
the traditional or is it infrared.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
So you get warm up first.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
So I mean, well, it depends what you want to
get out of it, right, So I think the morning,
like a lot of people like to finish on cold.
So do your hot and then finish on cold. But
what we see is, you know, within the half an
hour or hour slots is people go hot to cold,
hot to cold or or you know, a lot of
I think, you know, my mum and my wife included,
like to finish on hot because they want to come

(01:07:37):
out of their freezing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
See that's funny, guys. I went we went hot cold, No,
it's we went cold, hot and cold.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
And the pain first straight into the cold because to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Get into that. So we got in and but I
actually felt a bit cold for the for a couple
more hours. It took me because I like, it took
me a bit of time my blood to get back
into my system. But I felt amazing, like I felt
like I just leapt for ten hours. My body felt
really good, like really good. Yeah, and I was only

(01:08:13):
in the water for maybe I don't know, three or
four minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
Yeah. And my hand I couldn't put my hands in
because I've got bad I thros and my thumbs and
I could really feel it when I put my hands,
so I actually had a bit girly. Not to say,
girls do this, but I was being a girl. I
have my hand out of the water and just sort
of above the water, I should say, but I had
the rest of my body in it, and I think,

(01:08:38):
you know what's amazing for me is that all of
a sudden, there are certain people in this in this
world and in particular in our country, and people I'm
talking to. It becomes so much more aware of the
importance of these sorts of testing yourself, pushing yourself to
do something you actually don't really feel like doing, like
getting in a cold punch. I think it was three
or four degrees would it be about right? Yeah, yeah,

(01:08:59):
three or four degrees water. I mean, just the thought
of it and how it's good for your mentality. I
actually felt, I know, I'm not dear to I'm not
your you know town cryer for I don't get paid again.
I'm not getting paid anything by recovery this, but this

(01:09:19):
is the reality of whether it was recovery, is cold
plunge or anyone else cold punch? Well, so much I
bought myself on so I bought a cold punch. So
the feeling that I get from it was amazing, like
my mental feeling. Physically, I felt pretty good. I don't
know if it really took away my arthritis or inflammation.
It did for a short period of time for sure,

(01:09:40):
but I got a mental clarity out of it that
the cold mostly I felt amazing. The infraredsuner, I think
for me is better for physically. It's really good for
me physically. It makes me feel quite better the next
day that I sleep better that night and I feel
better the next day. But the cold has got to
give me a mental clarity. What do you get from it?

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Yeah? No, that So, I mean I hated it for
the majority of my career.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Towards the back end, I go, okay, well, not that
I finish old or anything like that in terms of
a rugby player, but I needed to start if I
wanted to train how I wanted to play, and I
wanted to just be consistent on the field, and I
felt like I needed to start upping that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
And so I mean there was certainly, you know, it's
good for the inflammation.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
It gives you that, you know, a bit of a
physiology boost, like when you get out there and doorphins
seem to kick.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
But yeah, I think that what you're saying. You know,
you're like, oh, yeah, like in a weird way.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
It's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
I did that. I did that. Yeah, got it feel good?
You feel parted.

Speaker 3 (01:10:36):
So I mean, ideally like if you can have an
if particularly you've got your own but cold in the
morning because your body's heating up. So your body's cool overnight,
let you sleep and your body starts heating up as
the day goes on. So you want to you want
to sort of get in the cold in the morning
and allow it to heat up. And I mean, don't
just jump in the cold and then you know, sit
down for ages, do some movement after go for a walk,

(01:10:57):
get the body moving, the muscles moving, and should just
feel like for a couple of hours.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
And that's proven. You know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
I think one of the things with COVID is people
you know, really started to look at the longevity side
of things and what can they do aside from you know,
once they get back out.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
There to make them feel better and you stay healthy.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
And then sauna at night's great, so it will heat
you up, but your body's going through this pattern of
where you're starting to cool down and get ready for sleep,
So it almost spikes that that feeling and that sensation,
and you know, when you sweat again, releases in doorphins,
gets your toxins out, everything like that. So yeah, that's
sort of you can definitely do them complimentary because it

(01:11:34):
gives you that shock and that change. But yeah, if
you had to choose one at either side of the day,
you'd go with that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
And did you ever think would you ever thought yourself
if you go back to when you're twenty twelve, thirteen
years ago, nineteen twenty, that you would be having this
conversation talking about cold plunge, not because you would have
done nice bas for training or after games and stuff
like that, but his career that you be talking about

(01:12:01):
inference horners and dumb ice baths or cold plunge for
mental mental recovery, physical recovery. No outside of footy.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
No, and go for a surf, We'll go hang out
with my mates. Not so yeah, I have yeah a
few too many beersh Yeah. No, I've got a sawn
in my backyard.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
So yeah, I mean, not only is a good place
to feel good and everything, but we got two young kids.
So me and my wife jump in there at the
end of the day and just have a debrief on
the on the ship that they give us, you know,
after they finally get put down at night.

Speaker 2 (01:12:32):
So no, there's there's some great benefits to it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
And and just finally, I mean, because you're in the
you're in this game. Now, how often to get their
proper health benefits out of a sauna? How let's call
it an inference one for the moment. How many times
a week do you need to do it?

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
For how long? What? What is a sort of recommended period?

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
Well, there's a I mean, there's a couple of different
ways to look at it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
So there's you know, your humans of the world give
out great information on that, and they're the they're the standard,
and he does a lot around you know that sort
of stuff. So there's there's different ways to do it.
So to do it you know less, but you do
a bigger hit.

Speaker 1 (01:13:08):
So is it for thirty minutes or forty minutes?

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Well yeah, yeah, but you could almost you can do
like a twenty minute, have a little rinse, go back in,
do another twenty minutes, have a rinse, and you know,
finish off or you know shorter whatever time works or do.
You can do fifteen minutes a day daily, but your
body does pick up a little bit of a resilience,
but it gets used to tis yeah, a little bit,
yeah tolerance perfect. Yeah, So I think in terms of

(01:13:33):
an ice bath, and this is again a human and
I'm probably going to get this wrong, and you know
people can say that, but it's like a total of
twelve minutes a week and that'll give you that that's
your minimum effective dose of cold bath. So if you're
doing cold and the cold things interesting, like it seems
that with the recovery facilities, guys like to get it
really cold because it's the it's the test. But it

(01:13:55):
doesn't it needs to be cold enough that you get
a shock when you jump into it. You get that
it does need to be three It doesn't need to
be three good degrees. But what we've seen and what
you know, being in a footy team, when you get
it really cold, guys like you know, yeah, yeah, so
yeah it's three degrees. You can go and tell everyone
it's three degrees. You know, there's that part of it,
but no, it's just getting that that sort of tour

(01:14:16):
and you can get that cold shower and you know,
all going in the ocean at certain times the year,
they'll give you that effect. But yeah, twelve minutes across
the course of a week should should do you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
And finally, just on Hope Barrick, just what does hyperbaric chamber?
I mean, it's it's explain what we're talking about dye.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
So you put yourself into a high, high oxygen needed environment.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
So you just explain what it looks like.

Speaker 3 (01:14:39):
I mean, well, the ones that we have in our facilities,
and they can look different, but we have I mean, mate,
it's like sitting in it's sitting in this chair effectively
that you can recline in, but it's a little dome
around you, and you climb a little desk. Yeah and closed,
so you know, you shut this thing. You put a
sort of a bar over the top, and your press
start and it just starts filling with oxygen. It's kind

(01:15:01):
of like feels like you're going up in a plane,
so ears or pop. It feels it to yeah, like
a fully oxygenated environment and the purpose and the pressure
goes up like it would in a plane. The point
of it is to oxygenate your blood more than you
would in you know, normal day to day and that
just improves getting that part or red blood cells to
different parts of the body more which carry the oxygen,

(01:15:23):
which carry the oxygen more. So really good for chronic injury,
really good for sleep. I used it a fair bit.
I had some calf and achilles tendon issue, so I
was in there two to three times a week to
try and speed up that recovery process.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Really good for post surgery.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
So yeah, big, big in Japan, and a good study
in Japan, like yeah, that type of environment. So yeah,
it's it's it's that's a really really popular product.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Well I'm not going to buy Harper a better chamber,
but I've been thinking about it, to be honest. I mean,
I don't know if the respence, I would have a clue,
but I haven't be thinking about it because you know,
when you have to manage. I got a million injuries
that are accumulated over many years and a body, well used,
body will used, well lived in. But I'm I want
to say thank you, legend, and you are a legend.

(01:16:14):
Thanks very much for coming into the show today and
all the best with the recovery and and are you
going to take over when Oils he goes to America.
We've announced that he's a Randwick coach.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
By the way, No, he's gone, he's gone, he's gone.
He's good because I don't want to any trouble. No,
he's over there.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
But you're going to take over Romwick.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
I'm not taking over Ramwick. No, No, I'll be I'll
be staying in my lane.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
They're going to go and be spreading the you know,
doing their rugby thing and spreading the love over there
in America and opening up the Toronto and La facilities.
But yeah, very much. It's a great thing about the
rugby community. Great thing about when you you know, are
thinking about transitioning and what that sort of is going
to look like post a career or whether that you know,
I am in post career moment at the moment. But yeah,

(01:16:59):
you get a great network, a great bunch of people
that are willing to help if you ask, and happy
to keep you involved.

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
So that's true. By the way, the rugby union community
is very tight.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
Yeah. Yeah, I think sport community is in general.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
I'm being involved with a few things post career that
you know, athletes and businessmen and you know, whatever you
all have transitions in life, and I think if you're
willing to ask for a bit of help and how
that looks, and keep an open mind like we talk
about with you know, your siwall, ease of the world
on the rugby pitch and it's you know, good things
can happen.

Speaker 1 (01:17:32):
Michael Hubert, thanks very much.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
Thanks, I really appreciate this, but thank you

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