August 6, 2025 • 57 mins
John Laws is known to generations of Australians as the man with the "Golden Tonsils" — sits down for a rare and candid conversation spanning over six decades of broadcasting.
In this rare conversation, we go back to where it all began — growing up in Bendigo, breaking into radio, and building a career that saw him become one of the most influential voices in the country. He talks openly about the evolution of the industry, the importance of staying authentic, and what it really takes to connect with people on air.
Laws doesn’t hold back — sharing stories from behind the mic, his run-ins with Prime Ministers, his views on society, and what life looks like outside the studio.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Him, I Boris and this is straight talk John laws
Lawsy well too, straight talk.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Mark. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I haven't seen you for ages. And when you used
to be friends with Peter Warren years ago, many years ago,
because Pete's been passed away for a while. I used
to I had a few lunches with you with Peter
Warren back in the early two thousands period. Obviously much
more mobile in those days, and I was getting out
(00:28):
a bit more. But and you were at the sort
of top of your game then in terms of radio?
Was it not you? Radio? Was it the top of
its game? Radio is not necessarily the top of his
game anymore because it's been a lot of changes. What
do you think of radio today? And why do you
think it has sort of lost its mantle a little bit?
(00:52):
What do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I don't think it has You don't.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Think it has no because I just look at what's
going on at the moment. They look like they're all
cost cutting to me, and they're all trying to increase
their profits or something. I don't know if it's because
they're not getting enough advertising. Radio was like in his heyday,
especially when you were doing all the ads that you
were doing, you know, like back if I go back
(01:15):
to you e days for example, it was the only
place we could go and it was very influential. I
don't know whether it is as much today because it
doesn't seem to be attracting as many characters, like you,
Hadley's retired, there's a lot of people moving out. What
do you think it is or is it or is
it just a moment in time and recreate?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Oh well, there are still a few characters around it.
You're worth their while. You know, Kyle's the character he wanted.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Definitely, Definitely I like him. Yeah, But you don't get
the you know, we don't get blokes like Hadley for example,
Like I don't know what the time was there with
actly he sat there right there in that chair, very chair,
say a month or two ago. But you just don't
(02:08):
see you have those people coming into the show. I mean,
I listened radio all the time, by the way, I
listened to all the trip LAMB TODAYFM, I listened to GB.
I don't listen to your station so much anymore, but
I do listen to radio a lot because I'm in
the car a lot, and I like listening to radio
in the car, but it just doesn't seem to have
the same impact.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, it hasn't got the same sort of people. It
hasn't got me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
That's the issue. Why aren't people like you being attracted
to it? What do you think it is?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I don't know. I don't know why I was attracted
to it. I landed on my feet. I don't think
I had any great desire to be a broadcaster, but
once I started, I liked it. Plenty of money and
plenty of girls. What more could a man ask for?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, that's the very point. That type of character, someone
who's prepared to say that, and prepared them, by the way,
say you live that life, particularly when you're a young bloke.
So it attracted a certain type of personality, and that
personality thing can come out on the show, on whatever
the radio show is. We seem to be getting people
who are very I don't want to say woke, but
(03:14):
very careful what they do and say.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Do you know what work means?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, I got my own, too afraid to say anything
and want to be popular with everybody. Maybe that's my definition.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What do you think I don't have the vagus idea.
I just think it's a stupid word wellever.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I don't even know what worked out the word or
made the word up. It's a new word. And I
saw a Trump this morning saying, you know, like IM
saying a lot of things anti woke. He didn't use
the word but I think he might have used the word.
But Trump has sort of adopted the word, you know,
Elon Musk is adopted the word, America's adopted the word
has become anti the word. We definitely have adopted the
(03:54):
word here in Australia.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, I guess that's what happens with the English language.
We just pick up new words as we alone.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You're a bit of a wordsmith yourself. I mean, that's
that's your game sort of. You know, you're always picking
up words and using words and creating sayings and things
like that. Where how do they come up with these words?
I woke? I mean, like, how did you how do
you work out words? How do you make up ideas?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And don't you use it?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
You don't use it at all? What do you think
about the movement behind it?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Then?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think the English language is a wonderful language and
I don't know that it needs improving, particularly by a
bunch of people who don't have great knowledge of the
original English language.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, and that's a very interesting point. And you just
said to me, by the way, you sort of landed
on your feet with radio. How how does how do
you mean? How did you become a radio announcer? Do
you remember? It's probably a long while ago, It must
have been seventy odd years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, but I remember very well. I I was broke,
I was in Victoria and I met a like who
worked at the local radio station, which was called three
Bo Bendigo, and he offered me a job, or he
organized a job for me, which I took and I've
(05:24):
been in it ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But did he offer you the job because of your voice?
The sounding voice? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
No, I don't think there's anything special about my voice.
People you know, often say that there were I don't
think there's anything special about I don't think there's anything
very special about me, frankly, but certainly not a voice.
It's just a voice.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
But the audience does that just means you don't have
a view on yourself and an ego. But you'd have
to accept that your audiences throughout all this period have
pretty much put you in this position, you know, Golden
Tonsils and all that, all those sort of nicknames, et cetera.
And look as a listener to you, I mean you're
you're on my radio. As a kid in my household,
(06:08):
my mother loved you, you know, the John Law Show,
like it was. It was like our radio was always
on twenty four hours a day. We didn't have many
I was born in pure when there was no television
at that stage. And I'm not talking about pre fifty six,
but you know, no one had TVs in our area.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It'd never be very good on radio. You talk too quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Talk to there you go? Did you know that when
you first started at Bendigo. In Bendigo, No, I don't
think I ever spoke. I never spoke as quickly as
you do. You speak very very quickly. That's the Greek imimate.
So Greeks we tend to speak fast. I don't know.
We get excited. I mean I get I get really excited.
I mean, I don't know if that's a good thing
(06:47):
or a bad thing, but I and I and I
can't help myself speak, you know, I can't.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Help my stuff control mark.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, well that's never been sposed to be very good
at that. Yeah, I wasn't very funny. When I used
to the TV show The Prentice. They used to have
a bug in me and they'd be always telling me
to slow down, and they used to always ask me,
just make it in five, five or six sentences, that's it.
And I remember when I was listening to you talk
to the two Murray's recently, because I listened to jib
(07:16):
in the afternoon on Saturdays. That sort of tells you
what sort of life I have. And they are interviewing you,
and I noticed the speed at which you speak and
the efficiency in terms of the number of words you use.
He pretty much gave him an answer with the full
stop every time. Is that a skill or is that
(07:39):
just how John Laws operates?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't. I'm no different, am I.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
It's because I'm trying to work out it's not part
of a performance. When you're on radio, that is just you.
You're never trying to be the John Laws that everybody
expects you. Just that is just you on radio. It's
never any performers in there.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
There have been plenty of would bees if they could
be you know, there have been plenty of copyists come
along and did John law's impascinations.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, when you first started back in Benigar.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
There was novidy to coffee.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I was going to say, was there anybody who was
sort of inspired?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
You know?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
There wasn't any radio announce that you listened to.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
No, no, not that I certainly don't remember. Because I
worked on a radio station where the leading announcer was
a woman anyway called Margaret Mahin. She was lovely, just lovely,
and she taught me a lot. She was very good
(08:49):
at timing and all that sort of stuff. So I
just paid attention, just listened, and the bits I thought
were good, I borrowed. The bits I didn't think were
good discarded.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So would you say you were a good listener.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Then yes, yeah, if I'm interested.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, assuming you're interested, because because Kerry Packer was a
great listener. Yeah, and he didn't have much to say.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Oh yes, he and I were good friends.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, because I remember if you go from meeting with
Kerry when I was in business partnership with him, if
you go from meeting with Kerry, it could last for hours,
like it was never a short meeting. It was long,
long meetings. And midally I was in business with him,
so we talked about the business, but it was mostly
him asking me a question, short question, and he would
(09:38):
just sit there and he'd listen to my answer. Very
rarely did he ever tell me anything. It was more
sort of gathering information. Yeah, yeah, more that is that
something that you that you do? Is that something that
John Laws does?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I suppose it is. I don't know the things that
you do individually you do rather say self co subconsciously, Yeah,
you know, I don't know. I don't know. You can
tell me at the end of this interview what do
you think about it?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Because what I see in you now right now is
that like you've got these wise old eyes. You're just
absorbing everything and you're sort of I can see you
doing calculations like not night numbers, but you are trying
to make deductions about where's this guy going, where's his
interview going, what does he want from the interview? That's
(10:29):
what I feel like you're doing.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
And well, I know what you want from the interview.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
What do you think it is?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I'll tell you later. If you get it, I'll tell
you later, Okay, But I know what you want. I mean, well,
i'll tell you now. You obviously want an interesting interview.
You obviously want you to come out the end of
it looking good and me to come out the end
of it looking well, it doesn't matter much.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, actually, it's funny, that's sort of true because I'm
running a show. But what I want from an interview
is I want people to know about John Laws, because
I think that John Laws is one of the radio
one of radio's legends in Australia. That's that's what I think.
I grew up listening to you, and when I you know,
(11:13):
when I see someone of your ilk, but more importantly
still having a crack at your age and continue to
do it, I think that's sort of to be frank
with it, quite magnificently. That's for me to be able
to replicate with someone like you. You have done in
my profession, that is, other businesses that I do, that
(11:34):
would be gold for me. And I don't think enough people,
particularly young people like the like the producers we have here,
know too much about someone like John Laws, and I
think they should know something about you. That's what I'd
like to get out of the show, to know this
show anyway, to know more about you.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, you tell me what you what you want to know.
And I'll answer the question.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So where You're a Sydney boy.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
No, I was born in New Guinea, but I was
brought up from Sydney.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You're born in New Guinea?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah wow?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And what did your parents do?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
My father had trade stores up until the war came.
When the jets arrived, we had to go.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
In New Guinea. Yeah wow. That hadn't been a pretty
mad place to live in that period, in the thirty nine,
ninety eight, ninety thirty nine, I guess that'd been a
pretty wild place New GUINNI oh, yes it was. And
how old were you at that period?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
About five or something?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Five? I mean, I guess you had to rely on
the stories I told you because you wouldn't have seen
what was going on in the place. But I mean
as wild west now up there still, because I hear
the some of the rugby league players who played up
there in the prime Minister thirteen telling me what it's like.
I can't imagine what it was like eighty odd years ago.
(12:54):
Do you have any recollection of it of New Guinea?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
A lot? Yeah, oh yeah, a lot. Because I had
a nice time there. I had a good time. I
remember the people, I remember you know when we were
kids and we were white and those around us were
mostly black, and we had our own, our own mind
of more or less. I had a blow called Airman,
(13:19):
and his name I remember to this day as you
just heard an era. I just loved Derriman Herreman. Used
to look after me, used to hold my hand, used
to take me wherever I wanted to go. He was
the sweetest man.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Was he in New Guinea? Was heap New Guinea?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
In yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
As in as in colored papy New Guinea? In person?
And did you ever have any fear of being in
New Guinea?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Like William port Moresby, No, I was in wow in
up in the hills in the mountains.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
That sounds like even more remote.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
It was very remote.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So what's it? Okay? You said your dad had a
couple of trade stores. What does a trade storre mean?
Because I'm starting to think of something like Paba, New
Guinea's come in and traded whatever they caught or killed
for something else. What's a trade store.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That he brought him clothes, general goods. It wasn't. It
wasn't a flash store. It was it wasn't David Jones,
it was the company was called Greenwood and Laws. I
never met mister Greenwood, but the Laws was my father
and he was a good bloke and they had that
(14:31):
store together, and they had branches in Rabel and other
places around around the islands.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's pretty adventurous for an Australian. Oh yeah, you bed
and that's uh. I don't know, I don't understand. I
don't know much about it. I know nothing about you that.
But did he ever tell you why he went to
New Guinea or was he born in New Guinea as
well with his parents?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I never asked him why he went to New Guinea,
but I can assume he was very close to He's
the best friend of Blake called George Lowden, and George
was in New Guinea and I think encouraged my father
to go and I a trading staw, which he did.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That's a massive adventure. I mean, I wouldn't even I
would be too not nervous, but I would be.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I'd been generally concerned about it going, opening up anything
in a place like New Guinea today even today, and
I've been talking to the rugby league community about us
putting players up there to play for Paper New Guinea
in the rugby league competition in whenever it's going to
happen in twenty six, twenty seven, I think it's twenty seven,
and a lot of people are saying, Oh, it's going
(15:41):
to be like to live up there. I don't want
to take my family with me, even though you know
the federal governments proposing to make it a tax free
zone if you play footy up there. And what they
were worried about is sort of the wildness of the joint.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Oh yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It is. I mean, unless it's got more wild now
than it was back in the late thirties. You never
sort of experienced any of that at any time.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Always had good friends with the natives. As I say this,
one man, Ahreman, was the native who looked after me.
And he really looked after me. I mean nobody could
look at me sidewise with Ahriman was a big man,
big strong, black as your boot, and a terrific fellow.
(16:33):
And he used to carve wood things for me. He
was lovely. I had a very happy time. I remember
it very clearly. Given I was only four or five
years old, I remember it very clearly. It was one
of the happiest times.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Of my life, and then your dad. Mom and dad
decided to leave Paven come to Australia when you were
five or six years of age or young fellow.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Anyway, why did they come to Australia? What was what
brought him? Took him out of it because they didn't
have a lot of choice. They had to get out
in New Guinea because they were told by the government
they had to get out of New Guinea. And the
closest place was Australia. And my mother had a sister
who lived in Sydney, so Sydney was the obvious place
(17:17):
to go. And then we stayed. We stayed with Ardie Rita.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
That was the name when we came to Australia and
just been here ever since.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Elizabeth Bay Elizabeth Bay right, And so where'd you go
to school?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I didn't for a while, and then I went to
a school in Paramatta called Tara. I think it might
still be there.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
He went all the way to Paramatta to school.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
No, because we were staying at ParaMed Artie. It's all
very fuzzy in my mind. But my father bought a
trade store in Paramatta. That's how we came to be
in Paramedta.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So you when you grew growing up though, were you
would you consider yourself as a working class kid? Yeah,
really more on the labor side than the liberal side,
like in terms of you know what was traditionally considered
to be, you know, which way your politics went. Would
you consider that your dad was he like into you
(18:20):
know what the Labor Party took viewers? Because as my migrant,
that was my dad why I grew on punch bowl.
Everybody in that area was a Labor Party person, and well,
I do.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
My father wasn't.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
He wasn't was he was it? Because he was more
entrepreneurial and doing his best.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
He certainly wasn't a labor supporter, although I remember he
had great respect and admiration for Ben Shiffley. He often
used to mention Ben Chiffley. But I don't think you ever.
I'd never asked him or he voted for was At
that age, I didn't care. I didn't even know how
to spell vote.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Nor did I by the way, but it was discussed
in my house a lot, especially whenever we had a recession,
and you know that these things came up as we
was going to look after us as a family the best.
When you finish school, we were a good student Knox
Grammar School and we're a good student.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
No, hopeless.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
What does that mean? He didn't care or you didn't
like it, or she's lazy, lazy, didn't see the point.
You didn't see the point in schooling.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I thought the best thing about schooling was it taught
you how to how to learn. But what a taught
apart from that didn't really impress me greatly. I wasn't
mad about theorem thirty six or you know, any of
that stuff. But I like the idea of learning. I
(19:54):
like the idea of discovering new things. That made me happy.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Because John Law is a good boy. No, you're a
naughty boy. Yeah, what does that mean? Well, I mean
what we're doing? Wagon school? What have you called those days?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You used to wag school? Used to go and hide
in a railway station.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
All day, all day?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I hated school.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I have a cigarette smoke. No, not that bad.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
No, Well I would have been caught because my mother smoked,
and she would have smelled a cigarette on me. No.
I was just rebellious and I've not changed.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But that's a good But that's an Australian thing, I think.
To me, the fabric of Australia. Australians we are, but
to me anyway, we are sort of cheeky. Not you know,
I'm not talking about sort of you know, pulling the
Parliament down, but we are cheeky ellis in terms of
being cheeky. And we say what we think when we
(21:04):
want to.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yes, a lot of us stone bothered to think that's true.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And then we speak without thinking whatever is whatever comes
up Trump style, you know, just just comes out here
and then I don't mind that, though, what do you
think about that?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Well, what do you think about it?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I like it. I like it. I like the people
being authentic, being themselves whatever they feeling.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Or I like him too, I'd like Trump off and on.
You know, one day I like him, next day I
think he's a fack. But he's a pretty successful quit.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, totally. He's he has this like it's pretty amazing
what he's done, like given that he was never a politician.
And he becomes a president and then they like then
he gets charged with a million charges when he's not
the president, but he still gets back and this time
he gets back in much stronger.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
He's got to be admired. He's got to be admired.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Do you worry about what's I mean? I guess it
doesn't really matter to us what happens in the US
to some extent, But do you worry about where everybody's
going to vote for someone like Trump to put him
by such a big majority.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No, I don't worry about it because it's going to
be a long time before it affects Australia. And I
think Australia is a very strong, little strong country. And
I don't think we'll accept anything that we don't choose
to accept. I don't think we'll be overrun by the
whims of Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I read some of that. You have interviewed seventeen prime ministers.
I get excited when interview too. You've interviewed seventeen prime
minister's Australian prim I think it's.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
More than seventeen, No, seventeen.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And of which twice was Kevin Rudd. In those seventeen
prime ministers. Is there any any standouts that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You rut here? Oh? Yeah, Paul Keating as a standout,
Alarican Alaricon as a great brain.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, you have plenty going on up there, and the.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Great brain Malcolm Fraser. I admired greatly and spent a
lot of time with Malcolm Fraser most of them. I've
got on very well with GoF Whitlam. I had a
New Year's Eve with got Whitlam in Paris in his
propellatial Paris home. He and my wife at that time
(23:42):
and Margaret and Goffell had New Year's Eve together, which
was great. Yes, I've known a lot of prime ministers
and I've been very close to quite a few prime ministers.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
If we look at Paul Keating because he went to
my school, actually he was a fuse ahead of me,
but he was the as I recall it, the I
don't know what it was, the head of the student
representative council. Even in those days. He was sort of
very much aware of unionism and sort of you know
what should be done in relation to making things better
(24:15):
at the university at the school. But Paul was always
really smart at school, Like it was well known that
Paul Kenny was one of the smart kids at school
in terms of his policy in Australia, he was big
between eighty seven and nineteen eighty seven and to their
nineteen eighty seven and nineteen ninety six. Do you think
(24:40):
that Paul was too on us for his own good.
And why say that? Why say that is because I
remember two things that he said that were turned against him.
The first was, this is the recession we had to have. Yeah,
and on your said that, on my share he said.
(25:01):
And he also said, it'll show this something about the
Banana Republic.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, he said that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
On and but over time they were used against him
the media and then turned those around. And I think anyway,
and I think one of the reasons he lost the
election as prime minister when he was Prime minister was
largely because of his intellectual honesty and no regard for
(25:28):
what the fallout might be by being intellectually honest, because
he had a huge intellect. Still that I was obviously,
whereas today you never hear prime ministers doing saying anything
that's even slightly dangerous, not even slightly dangerous.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I mean, John Howard certainly wasn't a worse was
he He said what he wanted to say and said
it pretty well. I admire and still do it my
John Howard, and I admired and do admire Paul Keating.
Paul Keating had a brain like a steel trap. You know,
(26:12):
he was onto everything. He was very highly early intelligent
still is. I presume I don't see him much these days.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I had lunch with him three or four years ago,
and he's and we had it in a place in Bondi,
and it's quite amazing. He pulled out a photo copy
of a newspaper Financial Review front page with a note
on it written in his writing, and he showed it
(26:44):
to me. I don't know how he kept it. It
was from nineteen ninety six or ninety ninety five or
something like that. The paper was back, and it was
twenty years before I'd seen him, but he was able
to find this because we're gonna have lunch and on
it was a reference to his economic policy about deregulation,
(27:08):
and sort of the point he was trying to make
was one of the reasons my business was very successful
lending money to people to buy houses, was because of
his change in economic policy. And it's true what he
said was true. But my point is he's so smart
(27:29):
and so intellectually organized that he knew how to put
his hand on this photocopy of this front page of
the Financial View quoting him back in nineteen ninety six.
That's scary smart yeah, and I don't think most people
(27:49):
give him the credit for being as smart or as
intellectually voluminous as he was. And I don't think we
have anybody in the last ten years.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Don't underrest abate John Howard.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
No, I can't remember how far back John goes now,
but definitely John Howard is up there, definitely, and Peter
Costello in terms of his portfolio too. Definitely, but they're
more too. Yeah, there were two thousand and between two
thousand and two thousand and five, I think, yeah, maybe
they're definitely. Last twenty years Howard's been around, but past that,
(28:26):
I don't know if we've really had anybody who had
that sort of I don't think we have either bandwidth,
you know, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
We have either we've had. Yeah, I'm trying to think
of somebody. Rud No, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Morrison, No, Alban No, Alban easy.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, interesting character, Albertisi, very very nice man.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Everyone seeds to love him as a bloke. Everyone, I
don't really know. Everyone tells me that he is a
good person, a good bloke. I wonder whether or not
he's got a massive machine behind him, though, which is
trying to please everybody because I mean, the Labor Party
is a pretty tough environment to be in, especially with
(29:22):
the unions.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think I think he's pretty safe sort of fellow Albanize,
you know, I think that he's a you can count
on him. I don't think he vacillates a great deal,
whereas a lot of politicians do by necessity because they
go with the crowd.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's very interesting because because I wonder whether or not
politics has become about popularist what's popular? You know, what
is popular? And are are we just voting for what's
popular today? Because the average voter doesn't really I don't know,
(30:02):
we don't the average voter, not not older people like me,
but the average voter, the younger voter. They just go
with what's in it for me sort of thing. Do
you I mean, you're been observer of people for a
long long time, and what do you think about the
average voter today and politics generally?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I mean, I think a lot of a lot of
the average voters today couldn't give a fuck, you know,
I think that they very layers are fair about voting.
It's something that is an accepted way of life. It's
something that that you've got to do, and you do it,
and I don't know how that they spent a lot
of time thinking about.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
It, and they've got to do it because it's compulsory. Sorry,
they've got to do it because it's compulsory.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, and they'll get a fine if they don't.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, if it wasn't compulsory to be very easy interesting
to see to see the outcome.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
That would be interesting, Like the US, you know, be
interesting to see who actually went and really wanted to
vote because they passionately you believe in that person or
that person or that party, in that part or this party.
It would be extremely interesting to see that that outcome
in Australia. And that's where you know, that's why Trump's
(31:13):
so amazing. Like I don't know if Trump's a genius
or the world's best marketer or I don't know. I
can't get ahead around the guy.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Like, oh, I think I think he's a latent genius.
I think underneath all that there's a there's a highly
intelligent and very cunning man. I think that he's very
cunning in what he does and the way he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, that's so he's genius is in his way of
working everybody out working out what the audience wants or
the voters want, and then playing into that well reading
the room.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Well, that's what clever communicators do.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, correct, Reading the room is probably one of the
most important things that a radio presenter has to have,
I mean a radio yeah, radio host has to have.
You you need to read your audience. How did you
do that before day? Like today you can get you know,
Ann and our analysts come in and say, well, you
(32:19):
got fifty two percent female, their age between nineteen and
thirty nine. They're all single mothers or something like that.
Today you can get that sort of that data. But
when you were first doing radio, or when you first
got into your rhythm of radio we became more popular,
how did you know what your audience wanted or did
you not care? You just gave them what you thought
(32:41):
they should have. I'd ask them really like surveys.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Well, I listened closely to what they wanted to.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Talk about, as in feedback, talkback, yeah, talkback yeah yeah.
And would you attribute any of your success, you know,
which was immense? Would you attribute any of your success
to other people in your organization who might have assisted you,
like did you have some was it one person or
people who sat with John Laws and like as a producer,
(33:10):
or someone who took copious notes.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
There are a lot of people you saying around and
make suggestions, most of them useless. No, I really just
did it the way I wanted to do it, because
I'm not terribly ciivil. I'm not the smartest man on
the block. So I had to I had to absorb
(33:35):
what the people who were listening wanted, and then I'd
order it to my way of seeking and give it
to them.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And just send it back out. And then in terms
of your guess, there's a different eraror. But in terms
of guess, were you someone who was always prepared to
go and hang out with the guests or entertain the guests,
or or do guests come to you because you had
such a following and they needed your station to talk
about whatever it is that they're trying to promote.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I just did what I wanted to do. I didn't
I didn't take instruction from anybody apropos what went on
on the program. I mean, there have been a couple
of attempts to rein me in and support somebody that
I didn't want to support, and I told them to
get nicked and did it my way, and I've been
(34:30):
very lucky because it worked.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
So have you had any I mean obviously you have,
But who would be some of the let's call it
famous guests that you had, like big names sorry, who
are some of the big names of guests that you
had in your in your your period and.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Your time as radio What people have interviewed? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh,
Betty Davis. Wow, Charlton Heston, one of my favorites, call
me Chuck. He was good. Charlton Heston. Robin Williams, Wow,
I had Robin Williams said he only had five minutes.
(35:08):
He was there for three hours.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
God, he was funny. He was so funny. I mean
he and I just sat there and laughed and laughed
and laughed. I have no idea what it sounded like
coming out of your radio, but we had a terrific
time together. I loved him and still do. Highly highly
intelligent mind like a steel trap. And of course there
(35:30):
have been others, like plenty of others who I mentioned before,
Betty Davis.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So can you use it? I mean most people wouldn't.
Wouldn't a lot of younger people listen to this show.
Don't know who Betty Davis is, and they might might
have heard of her, but she was like an obviously
famous movie star. What was the characteristics? What were characteristics?
What was she like? Was she easy to talk to
or difficult to talk to?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Betty Davis? Yeah, well, anybody's easy to talk to if
you ask the right questions.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
What about the way she looked? What about her? There's
a song Betty Davis's eyes. I mean, did you look
into her eyes?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I mean, she was just she was terrific to talk
to because she was sharp as attack and she'd give
as good as she got. And I remember, I don't
know if you saw a movie called Now Voyager.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
No I didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Black and white movies should see it. She's in it
with Paul Henried and a couple of other good ones,
and there's a line in it where he wants to
go further than she wants to go with the relationship,
and she says to him, mister whatever his name was,
(36:55):
we have the sun. Let's not ask for the moon,
which was in the ways you delivered the line fabulous.
They're wonderful to watch, good actors.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
How was it your memory is so good?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I don't know, but I remember a lot. There's a
lot to remember, though, there's a hell of a lot
to remember. There's a lot that I don't especially want
to remember. But if you're stuck with it, you're stuck
with it.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
He is a nightmare that can be annoy me. But
because when I was listening to you with the two Murray's,
you're remembering the names of people who you just came
across in places like Bendigo, or some guy when you
were somewhat when are your parents your parents sent you
out to becoming Jack Arru and you remember the name
(37:43):
of some guy that was the person to look after
you at that at the farm or at the rural property.
They're like a random periods of time in your life.
Like we're going back seventy odd years. Did you always
have a do you always know? You how a bloody
great memory? Like or this is something you just accepted
about yourself because I have to remember twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I'm not as I said to you, I think I
said to you before. I'm not much into self analysis.
I don't I don't think about myself too much, and
I don't analyze what I say or what I think
very much. Because if I did, I probably wouldn't say
a lot of the things I said.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
That's that's probably not a bad way of putting it.
And I guess if you and is that because you
don't care though you don't give.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
A shit, No, no, nothing, nothing really bothers me.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Because because I mean, maybe you've got the formula for
a good life. I mean, that's what I'm trying to
get here. I know you like a lunch, and you
like a glass of wine or whatever, and you like
good company around you. But maybe because I mean, I've
been doing this thing about this project. Okay, I've been
working on this project. Okay, how do I lift to
one hundred? How could I lift one hundred? I'm trying
(39:03):
to work out if I can, like trying to. I
want to live longer than my dad. My dad died
when he was ninety, and I thought, well, I'd like
to add another ten years and just see if I can.
And all of it tells me, don't need the wrong food,
exercise all the time, sleep really well, don't drink booze.
Then I look at someone like you. You unfortunately can't exercise
(39:24):
much of the moment, but you love a lunch, You
don't want to drink. Nothing seems to bother you. And
here you are with a memory like like nothing. Your
memory is fantastic. I wonder whether or not you've got
the answer to what I've been trying to find out.
I mean, is it?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Do you? I do have the answer?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
What is it? It's private, that's private. You're not going
to share it, but you do it. You are doing
something that is the way you have lived your life
is like an envy of a lot of people. You're
not really worried about what you say and do. You're
not overthinking things, You're not self analyzing yourself, which is
(40:07):
what everybody else seems to do, especially these days of
social media. And I wonder whether or not those things
are actually impacting our lives negatively, and we should be
just saying it doesn't matter, Just get on with your life.
Live the lawsy life, double l.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I've never I've never sort of differentiated between my private
life and my working life. It's all sort of run
into each other, my working life and my private life.
There's never been a great separation.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
As you were coming up the stairs here to come
into the studio as a gentleman out the front, there
who I see. They're having coffee there all the time.
And he says somebody about a restaurant that he's used
to see you at. You're somewhat famous for going to restaurants.
You're somewhat famous for going to restaurants. I heard you
talking on another radio interview about Bond RECORDO. He was
(41:09):
talking about some restaurant down at the finger Wolf, which
is I think that's one of the rests I used
to see you at. Have you always lived this sort
of life like in terms of finding the best restaurants
and hopefully good company to go with it. Has that
has mean something? Is that a thing for you? Do
they find really good food, really high quality food.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I'm not a foodie, no, but I care about the atmosphere.
I like to go to restaurants because I'd like to
see what the other people are doing. I like to
watch other people. I'm an observer.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, it would for people who don't know Bond recorders.
Old school, old old school restaurant like Italian Restaurant in
Paddington had a very famous reputation, terrific restaurant. I haven't
been are for years, but it is still the same
as good as it has been. It's only very small
(42:04):
relatively speaking, it's a small smallest restaurant, but it's very
good still.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh yeah, you bitch, it's one of my favorites. I'd
probably go once for fortnite or something. Yeah, at least
once a fortnite.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
And would you would you go to restaurant? Would you
eat out four or five nights a week? No? What?
Would you eat it out four or five nights a week?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
No?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
So you ate?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Will you go home and tonight and have a jeez?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Tasting beans on toasted?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I quite like baked beans on toast? I do too good. Well,
we've got good taste. Yeah, okay, so let's open the
baked beans on toast restaurant.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I'm not sure how well I goo. I think the
restaurant thing is probably not my gap. I'm not sure
whether you make any money out of it.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
It could cost us a lot in the end, but
everything doesn't depend on whether you're going to make money
out of it or not.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I agree with that, and I like to show I
don't make any money of this show. I mean not
just because I enjoy talking to people with this not
a money making venture.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You mean you're not getting paid for interviewing me.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
No, not at all. I'm the show.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I think you should. You should be given danger money
for interviewing me. And you don't know that I'm not
going to say fuck.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, I say fuck all the time. It's okay on
the radio, on this show all the time. Well you've
got to stop it because you know, but John, it's
my show. I can say what the fuck I like.
I mean, I do, don't care if people don't like it.
They you know what I say, don't listen to me.
They don't have to listen to this podcast if they
don't like Misswearing. I mean, I don't mind I say.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
That to people do. But the poor devils can't help themselves.
They have to tune in.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
They have to listen to you.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Ye see what the see what this barstard is doing today.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, I haven't got any reach anywhere near those heights
in my podcast world. And I've only been doing this
for now eight years, so it's probably gonna have to
do it for another forty years before I can get
to that stage where people can't not listen to me.
I look forward to getting to that sort of days,
those sort of days, John can as just on a
(44:03):
more personal basis, private basis, can ask you about your family.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Well, I'm very close to my family, even though the
tyranny of distance exists. I mean some are in the country. Uh,
some are in another state. But I have pretty good
relations with with with my family, don't I. I'm asking
(44:28):
Jodie because she knows everything I do.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
And you know, when you want to come over here?
She said, no, thanks, But you're you're obviously your grandkids. Yeah,
you've got great grandkids yet not yet. One's on the way,
on the way, yeah, on the way. And do they
(44:51):
come around and visit Grandpa? Like is that a thing
for you and your life? Like?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Do you know because they're in the country, most of
them in the book?
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, okay, yeah, okay in the book yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
So I don't I don't get to see them all
that often. But when I do, we have a good time.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah. And what do they call you out of interest?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Oh? They called me no, no.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
No, I assume there's some Italian connection there Isn't that
the Italian word for.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, it's Italian.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
You're not going to tell me your name for grandpa? Yeah?
But why they call you nono? Why would you get Italian? Nono,
where's the Italian?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
My eldest stepdaughter went to Italy, won a scholarship to
an art school in Italy. She was a very very clever,
too clever, too clever, and she started to use Italian
language and she called me noo even though I was
(46:00):
her stepfather or whatever it was. So it sort of stuck.
The kids like no, no, and I don't mind it.
I like it better than granddad.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
It sounds better totally. Can I tell you a story
when my grandson was born, my first grandson. I have
a little private WhatsApp group like a that I talked
to my four sons and we all talk on this
WhatsApp group and I said, they said, hey, Dad. They
(46:34):
said to me, my son's what do you want the
grandkid to call you? And I don't want to be
called grandpa, you know, And I said, just call me Mark.
He's called me Mark. That'll do. And my oldest son,
who's a pretty cheeky fella, he's forty four, he said, Dad,
(46:58):
when we were young, every time we asked you something
for something, you would always say the Greek word for no,
orki orky. It just means no, he said, so why
don't we get the grandson to call you ORKI? And
(47:19):
I said, oh, that's okay, that's pretty cool, and then
we stopped talking. And then another time we come up
and they were laughing at it, and they actually said, Dad,
Orkie doesn't stand for no, it stands for old cranky.
(47:39):
See you went t which is? And I said, I mean,
I don't my grandson called me, oh cranky gunt. I
don't want that, and how it calls me pop. But
that's how my kids responded to me when I asked them,
what would you like my grandson's named George? What would
you like George to call you? And that's what they
(48:00):
come up with, orkie? Oh double see why?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah? I like nano.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, I think no no is much better. I'd take
nine o two. That's why I was That's why I
was interested to find out what your family wanted their
kids to call you, you know, like whether or not
they reflect on their on their grandfather in a character sense,
like what's what's your character to them?
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Here? I don't know that they call me much? Ay you?
I think?
Speaker 1 (48:32):
And John? And speaking of John, do you is what
what do you have any interaction with social media? What
do you think of it? For you? What do you
why not?
Speaker 2 (48:42):
I don't know if you're lonely, if you're bored, and
if you're stupid. I suppose it's handy to find somebody
who's equally lonely and bored and stupid have a year
under them. But I don't understand it really.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
And so what do you do in your you know,
when you wake up in the morning, I mean, or
go to bed at night? I mean, what do you
what do you do to entertain yourself? Do you watch television?
Do you watch movies?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Do you watch television a bit? I'd like to watch
old movies. I read a lot. I read a hell
of a lot.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Do you read like you mean, like as in documentaries
or fiction?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I quite like fiction, but I like real life stories better.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, so like a documented story about somebody like yourself.
I was to ask you, have you is there some
powet or singer that you've read stories about that that
you really like reading about? Like, for example, I don't
know someone late Leonard Cohen for arguments sake. I mean,
(49:47):
is the somebody that you've always admired in let's say,
the entertainment game. Apart from people like Betty Davis, but
like like say some singer or musician that you've read about.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Oh, yes, I could think of a lot. I could
think of a lot of musicians and singers that I admire.
Tony Bennett is number one for me. Beautiful voice here,
fabulous singer and a good bloke. Are you new him?
Good bloke? And what a voice? What a singer? That
(50:24):
ability he had to phrase a song.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
In terms of timing, Oh, he.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Had a hold back on a word and then catch up. Terrific?
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Did you that's interesting that you actually break this his
skill down like that. Is that something that that you
do with when you're sort of listening to a song
where you're listening to some music, Is that something you
do you actually try to listen to the phrasing?
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Well, yeah, well idea, have I listened to it all?
You know? I have? I listened to it in its entirety?
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
But what does that mean entirety? There? Because most people
listen to most younger people listen to music, they're just listening.
They're just it's like a transaction. It's done, it's over.
Listen to the next song's done, it's over. You sound
like you sort of really sort of sink your mind
into the song and have a good heart listen at it.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Ah. I just I just love music. I don't mind
too much what sort of music, except I'm not into
bark hues. But I do like I do like music.
I'd like country music, I'd like modern music. I like
(51:42):
Mama Cass the way she sings, I'd like her. She's
she was a good old bird, Mama Cass. Did you
meet her here? I met them all one way or another.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
You mean one way or the other, either radio or
just socially, both both. Well, and your life's been pretty blessed,
pretty amazing then in some respects having the opportunity to
meet all these because that's what radio does.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I mean. Yes, I know, you're quite right. I have
been very blessed and very fortunate to have met a
lot of the people that I've that I've met and
talked to in show business, and I made a lot
of friends. You know. Neil Diamond is just one of
(52:31):
the best flakes you'd meet in ten lifetimes. Mama Cass
I met in the early days. She was great. The
members of the Kingston Tria, all those those big names
of the time. Do you remember the Kingston Trier.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
I don't, but I certainly remember Neil diamond because that
album Hot August Night. My mother used to play that
on our HMV record player, like nearly twenty four hours
a day was it was always on What Hot August Night?
His album album album Neil Diamonds.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
What a great album.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
It's got to be one of the best albums of
all time.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, I remember it so vividly, and because Muma was
like a prize, like you know, you know it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
He's one of the best blokes to Yeah, good bloke.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
What about Cat Stevens. You haven't been Cat Stevens. Yeah,
I reckon. He's music's beautiful. I love his songs. I
love his I love his stuff.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
If you want to sing out, sing out, if you
want to sing out, I can't think of the words.
If you want to be blue, be blue. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
There's probably very few people that have come into Australia,
like over the last fifty years of any sort of
note that if they're if they're in the show business,
they probably didn't go through your studio. There's probably very few.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
A lot of people.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, but that's that's pretty amazing. I mean, I know
you said you don't analyze your life very much, but
I'm analyzing your life. And that's I said. You're blessed,
but you've probably met more more people than most people
in your lifetime, more people than most people have ever
even read about. You know, you've seemed to have met
(54:28):
up with everybody, and like, why John Laws, why do
they come to see you? Do you ever think how
am I? How am I this person sitting here getting
to meet all these interesting people? You ever thought about that?
Speaker 2 (54:43):
I never? As I said to you before, I'm not
much into self analysis. I don't sort of really care
too much about anything so long as I don't deliberately
hurt anybody. I don't want to do that. I don't
want to deliberately hurt anybody. Of course I've hurt people,
and I will again, but not deliberately. But apart from that,
(55:05):
I just wanted to live my life. And if I
can make people happy, that's good. And if I can
get people who are thoroughly pissed off and I don't
want to know anything about me, that's all right too.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
I think that that's not a bad way to leave
this this conversation and then close off because that's probably
been John Laws his whole career, says what he thinks
and he can back it up. You're not afraid to
say what you think.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
No, be true to yourself. That's the secret. Make sure
that what you say is what you really believe, and
if it's something that's very controversial, make sure you can
back it up with facts.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
You just don't say for the sake of it. You mean, yeah,
you're saying make sure that you can back it up. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, I know you don't like to reflect on
what you have done, but if you would say one sentence,
if you could put into one sentence why you've been
so successful. Do you think that's possible as a radio host,
(56:11):
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Yeah, honesty, honesty, even if it gets you into travel
and it does to thine own self. Be true. That's
the secret. I can bullshit to you and you will
(56:34):
or won't accept it, but I know within myself whether
I'm telling the truth or whether I'm faking.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
It, bullshitting yourself. Yeah. Thanks from host John for a
brilliant for a brilliant Koreer, and thanks very much for
having you've done
Him, I Boris and this is straight talk John laws
Lawsy well too, straight talk.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Mark. How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I haven't seen you for ages. And when you used
to be friends with Peter Warren years ago, many years ago,
because Pete's been passed away for a while. I used
to I had a few lunches with you with Peter
Warren back in the early two thousands period. Obviously much
more mobile in those days, and I was getting out
(00:28):
a bit more. But and you were at the sort
of top of your game then in terms of radio?
Was it not you? Radio? Was it the top of
its game? Radio is not necessarily the top of his
game anymore because it's been a lot of changes. What
do you think of radio today? And why do you
think it has sort of lost its mantle a little bit?
(00:52):
What do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I don't think it has You don't.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Think it has no because I just look at what's
going on at the moment. They look like they're all
cost cutting to me, and they're all trying to increase
their profits or something. I don't know if it's because
they're not getting enough advertising. Radio was like in his heyday,
especially when you were doing all the ads that you
were doing, you know, like back if I go back
(01:15):
to you e days for example, it was the only
place we could go and it was very influential. I
don't know whether it is as much today because it
doesn't seem to be attracting as many characters, like you,
Hadley's retired, there's a lot of people moving out. What
do you think it is or is it or is
it just a moment in time and recreate?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Oh well, there are still a few characters around it.
You're worth their while. You know, Kyle's the character he wanted.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Definitely, Definitely I like him. Yeah, But you don't get
the you know, we don't get blokes like Hadley for example,
Like I don't know what the time was there with
actly he sat there right there in that chair, very chair,
say a month or two ago. But you just don't
(02:08):
see you have those people coming into the show. I mean,
I listened radio all the time, by the way, I
listened to all the trip LAMB TODAYFM, I listened to GB.
I don't listen to your station so much anymore, but
I do listen to radio a lot because I'm in
the car a lot, and I like listening to radio
in the car, but it just doesn't seem to have
the same impact.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Well, it hasn't got the same sort of people. It
hasn't got me.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
That's the issue. Why aren't people like you being attracted
to it? What do you think it is?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I don't know. I don't know why I was attracted
to it. I landed on my feet. I don't think
I had any great desire to be a broadcaster, but
once I started, I liked it. Plenty of money and
plenty of girls. What more could a man ask for?
Speaker 1 (02:52):
Well, that's the very point. That type of character, someone
who's prepared to say that, and prepared them, by the way,
say you live that life, particularly when you're a young bloke.
So it attracted a certain type of personality, and that
personality thing can come out on the show, on whatever
the radio show is. We seem to be getting people
who are very I don't want to say woke, but
(03:14):
very careful what they do and say.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Do you know what work means?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Well, I got my own, too afraid to say anything
and want to be popular with everybody. Maybe that's my definition.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
What do you think I don't have the vagus idea.
I just think it's a stupid word wellever.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I don't even know what worked out the word or
made the word up. It's a new word. And I
saw a Trump this morning saying, you know, like IM
saying a lot of things anti woke. He didn't use
the word but I think he might have used the word.
But Trump has sort of adopted the word, you know,
Elon Musk is adopted the word, America's adopted the word
has become anti the word. We definitely have adopted the
(03:54):
word here in Australia.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, I guess that's what happens with the English language.
We just pick up new words as we alone.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You're a bit of a wordsmith yourself. I mean, that's
that's your game sort of. You know, you're always picking
up words and using words and creating sayings and things
like that. Where how do they come up with these words?
I woke? I mean, like, how did you how do
you work out words? How do you make up ideas?
Speaker 2 (04:20):
And don't you use it?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
You don't use it at all? What do you think
about the movement behind it?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Then?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think the English language is a wonderful language and
I don't know that it needs improving, particularly by a
bunch of people who don't have great knowledge of the
original English language.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, and that's a very interesting point. And you just
said to me, by the way, you sort of landed
on your feet with radio. How how does how do
you mean? How did you become a radio announcer? Do
you remember? It's probably a long while ago, It must
have been seventy odd years ago.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, but I remember very well. I I was broke,
I was in Victoria and I met a like who
worked at the local radio station, which was called three
Bo Bendigo, and he offered me a job, or he
organized a job for me, which I took and I've
(05:24):
been in it ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
But did he offer you the job because of your voice?
The sounding voice? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
No, I don't think there's anything special about my voice.
People you know, often say that there were I don't
think there's anything special about I don't think there's anything
very special about me, frankly, but certainly not a voice.
It's just a voice.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
But the audience does that just means you don't have
a view on yourself and an ego. But you'd have
to accept that your audiences throughout all this period have
pretty much put you in this position, you know, Golden
Tonsils and all that, all those sort of nicknames, et cetera.
And look as a listener to you, I mean you're
you're on my radio. As a kid in my household,
(06:08):
my mother loved you, you know, the John Law Show,
like it was. It was like our radio was always
on twenty four hours a day. We didn't have many
I was born in pure when there was no television
at that stage. And I'm not talking about pre fifty six,
but you know, no one had TVs in our area.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
It'd never be very good on radio. You talk too quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Talk to there you go? Did you know that when
you first started at Bendigo. In Bendigo, No, I don't
think I ever spoke. I never spoke as quickly as
you do. You speak very very quickly. That's the Greek imimate.
So Greeks we tend to speak fast. I don't know.
We get excited. I mean I get I get really excited.
I mean, I don't know if that's a good thing
(06:47):
or a bad thing, but I and I and I
can't help myself speak, you know, I can't.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Help my stuff control mark.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, well that's never been sposed to be very good
at that. Yeah, I wasn't very funny. When I used
to the TV show The Prentice. They used to have
a bug in me and they'd be always telling me
to slow down, and they used to always ask me,
just make it in five, five or six sentences, that's it.
And I remember when I was listening to you talk
to the two Murray's recently, because I listened to jib
(07:16):
in the afternoon on Saturdays. That sort of tells you
what sort of life I have. And they are interviewing you,
and I noticed the speed at which you speak and
the efficiency in terms of the number of words you use.
He pretty much gave him an answer with the full
stop every time. Is that a skill or is that
(07:39):
just how John Laws operates?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
I don't. I'm no different, am I.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
It's because I'm trying to work out it's not part
of a performance. When you're on radio, that is just you.
You're never trying to be the John Laws that everybody
expects you. Just that is just you on radio. It's
never any performers in there.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
There have been plenty of would bees if they could
be you know, there have been plenty of copyists come
along and did John law's impascinations.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Well, when you first started back in Benigar.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
There was novidy to coffee.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
I was going to say, was there anybody who was
sort of inspired?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
You know?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
There wasn't any radio announce that you listened to.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
No, no, not that I certainly don't remember. Because I
worked on a radio station where the leading announcer was
a woman anyway called Margaret Mahin. She was lovely, just lovely,
and she taught me a lot. She was very good
(08:49):
at timing and all that sort of stuff. So I
just paid attention, just listened, and the bits I thought
were good, I borrowed. The bits I didn't think were
good discarded.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
So would you say you were a good listener.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Then yes, yeah, if I'm interested.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, assuming you're interested, because because Kerry Packer was a
great listener. Yeah, and he didn't have much to say.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Oh yes, he and I were good friends.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah, because I remember if you go from meeting with
Kerry when I was in business partnership with him, if
you go from meeting with Kerry, it could last for hours,
like it was never a short meeting. It was long,
long meetings. And midally I was in business with him,
so we talked about the business, but it was mostly
him asking me a question, short question, and he would
(09:38):
just sit there and he'd listen to my answer. Very
rarely did he ever tell me anything. It was more
sort of gathering information. Yeah, yeah, more that is that
something that you that you do? Is that something that
John Laws does?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I suppose it is. I don't know the things that
you do individually you do rather say self co subconsciously, Yeah,
you know, I don't know. I don't know. You can
tell me at the end of this interview what do
you think about it?
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Because what I see in you now right now is
that like you've got these wise old eyes. You're just
absorbing everything and you're sort of I can see you
doing calculations like not night numbers, but you are trying
to make deductions about where's this guy going, where's his
interview going, what does he want from the interview? That's
(10:29):
what I feel like you're doing.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
And well, I know what you want from the interview.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
What do you think it is?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
I'll tell you later. If you get it, I'll tell
you later, Okay, But I know what you want. I mean, well,
i'll tell you now. You obviously want an interesting interview.
You obviously want you to come out the end of
it looking good and me to come out the end
of it looking well, it doesn't matter much.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Well, actually, it's funny, that's sort of true because I'm
running a show. But what I want from an interview
is I want people to know about John Laws, because
I think that John Laws is one of the radio
one of radio's legends in Australia. That's that's what I think.
I grew up listening to you, and when I you know,
(11:13):
when I see someone of your ilk, but more importantly
still having a crack at your age and continue to
do it, I think that's sort of to be frank
with it, quite magnificently. That's for me to be able
to replicate with someone like you. You have done in
my profession, that is, other businesses that I do, that
(11:34):
would be gold for me. And I don't think enough people,
particularly young people like the like the producers we have here,
know too much about someone like John Laws, and I
think they should know something about you. That's what I'd
like to get out of the show, to know this
show anyway, to know more about you.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Well, you tell me what you what you want to know.
And I'll answer the question.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
So where You're a Sydney boy.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
No, I was born in New Guinea, but I was
brought up from Sydney.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
You're born in New Guinea?
Speaker 2 (12:07):
Yeah wow?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
And what did your parents do?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
My father had trade stores up until the war came.
When the jets arrived, we had to go.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
In New Guinea. Yeah wow. That hadn't been a pretty
mad place to live in that period, in the thirty nine,
ninety eight, ninety thirty nine, I guess that'd been a
pretty wild place New GUINNI oh, yes it was. And
how old were you at that period?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
About five or something?
Speaker 1 (12:33):
Five? I mean, I guess you had to rely on
the stories I told you because you wouldn't have seen
what was going on in the place. But I mean
as wild west now up there still, because I hear
the some of the rugby league players who played up
there in the prime Minister thirteen telling me what it's like.
I can't imagine what it was like eighty odd years ago.
(12:54):
Do you have any recollection of it of New Guinea?
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
A lot? Yeah, oh yeah, a lot. Because I had
a nice time there. I had a good time. I
remember the people, I remember you know when we were
kids and we were white and those around us were
mostly black, and we had our own, our own mind
of more or less. I had a blow called Airman,
(13:19):
and his name I remember to this day as you
just heard an era. I just loved Derriman Herreman. Used
to look after me, used to hold my hand, used
to take me wherever I wanted to go. He was
the sweetest man.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Was he in New Guinea? Was heap New Guinea?
Speaker 2 (13:33):
In yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
As in as in colored papy New Guinea? In person?
And did you ever have any fear of being in
New Guinea?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Like William port Moresby, No, I was in wow in
up in the hills in the mountains.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
That sounds like even more remote.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
It was very remote.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
So what's it? Okay? You said your dad had a
couple of trade stores. What does a trade storre mean?
Because I'm starting to think of something like Paba, New
Guinea's come in and traded whatever they caught or killed
for something else. What's a trade store.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
That he brought him clothes, general goods. It wasn't. It
wasn't a flash store. It was it wasn't David Jones,
it was the company was called Greenwood and Laws. I
never met mister Greenwood, but the Laws was my father
and he was a good bloke and they had that
(14:31):
store together, and they had branches in Rabel and other
places around around the islands.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
It's pretty adventurous for an Australian. Oh yeah, you bed
and that's uh. I don't know, I don't understand. I
don't know much about it. I know nothing about you that.
But did he ever tell you why he went to
New Guinea or was he born in New Guinea as
well with his parents?
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I never asked him why he went to New Guinea,
but I can assume he was very close to He's
the best friend of Blake called George Lowden, and George
was in New Guinea and I think encouraged my father
to go and I a trading staw, which he did.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
That's a massive adventure. I mean, I wouldn't even I
would be too not nervous, but I would be.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
I'd been generally concerned about it going, opening up anything
in a place like New Guinea today even today, and
I've been talking to the rugby league community about us
putting players up there to play for Paper New Guinea
in the rugby league competition in whenever it's going to
happen in twenty six, twenty seven, I think it's twenty seven,
and a lot of people are saying, Oh, it's going
(15:41):
to be like to live up there. I don't want
to take my family with me, even though you know
the federal governments proposing to make it a tax free
zone if you play footy up there. And what they
were worried about is sort of the wildness of the joint.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Oh yeah, it was.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It is. I mean, unless it's got more wild now
than it was back in the late thirties. You never
sort of experienced any of that at any time.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Always had good friends with the natives. As I say this,
one man, Ahreman, was the native who looked after me.
And he really looked after me. I mean nobody could
look at me sidewise with Ahriman was a big man,
big strong, black as your boot, and a terrific fellow.
(16:33):
And he used to carve wood things for me. He
was lovely. I had a very happy time. I remember
it very clearly. Given I was only four or five
years old, I remember it very clearly. It was one
of the happiest times.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
Of my life, and then your dad. Mom and dad
decided to leave Paven come to Australia when you were
five or six years of age or young fellow.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
Anyway, why did they come to Australia? What was what
brought him? Took him out of it because they didn't
have a lot of choice. They had to get out
in New Guinea because they were told by the government
they had to get out of New Guinea. And the
closest place was Australia. And my mother had a sister
who lived in Sydney, so Sydney was the obvious place
(17:17):
to go. And then we stayed. We stayed with Ardie Rita.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
That was the name when we came to Australia and
just been here ever since.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
Elizabeth Bay Elizabeth Bay right, And so where'd you go
to school?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
I didn't for a while, and then I went to
a school in Paramatta called Tara. I think it might
still be there.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
He went all the way to Paramatta to school.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
No, because we were staying at ParaMed Artie. It's all
very fuzzy in my mind. But my father bought a
trade store in Paramatta. That's how we came to be
in Paramedta.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
So you when you grew growing up though, were you
would you consider yourself as a working class kid? Yeah,
really more on the labor side than the liberal side,
like in terms of you know what was traditionally considered
to be, you know, which way your politics went. Would
you consider that your dad was he like into you
(18:20):
know what the Labor Party took viewers? Because as my migrant,
that was my dad why I grew on punch bowl.
Everybody in that area was a Labor Party person, and well,
I do.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
My father wasn't.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
He wasn't was he was it? Because he was more
entrepreneurial and doing his best.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
He certainly wasn't a labor supporter, although I remember he
had great respect and admiration for Ben Shiffley. He often
used to mention Ben Chiffley. But I don't think you ever.
I'd never asked him or he voted for was At
that age, I didn't care. I didn't even know how
to spell vote.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Nor did I by the way, but it was discussed
in my house a lot, especially whenever we had a recession,
and you know that these things came up as we
was going to look after us as a family the best.
When you finish school, we were a good student Knox
Grammar School and we're a good student.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
No, hopeless.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
What does that mean? He didn't care or you didn't
like it, or she's lazy, lazy, didn't see the point.
You didn't see the point in schooling.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I thought the best thing about schooling was it taught
you how to how to learn. But what a taught
apart from that didn't really impress me greatly. I wasn't
mad about theorem thirty six or you know, any of
that stuff. But I like the idea of learning. I
(19:54):
like the idea of discovering new things. That made me happy.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Because John Law is a good boy. No, you're a
naughty boy. Yeah, what does that mean? Well, I mean
what we're doing? Wagon school? What have you called those days?
Speaker 2 (20:11):
You used to wag school? Used to go and hide
in a railway station.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
All day, all day?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I hated school.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
I have a cigarette smoke. No, not that bad.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
No, Well I would have been caught because my mother smoked,
and she would have smelled a cigarette on me. No.
I was just rebellious and I've not changed.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
But that's a good But that's an Australian thing, I think.
To me, the fabric of Australia. Australians we are, but
to me anyway, we are sort of cheeky. Not you know,
I'm not talking about sort of you know, pulling the
Parliament down, but we are cheeky ellis in terms of
being cheeky. And we say what we think when we
(21:04):
want to.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yes, a lot of us stone bothered to think that's true.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And then we speak without thinking whatever is whatever comes
up Trump style, you know, just just comes out here
and then I don't mind that, though, what do you
think about that?
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Well, what do you think about it?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I like it. I like it. I like the people
being authentic, being themselves whatever they feeling.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Or I like him too, I'd like Trump off and on.
You know, one day I like him, next day I
think he's a fack. But he's a pretty successful quit.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, totally. He's he has this like it's pretty amazing
what he's done, like given that he was never a politician.
And he becomes a president and then they like then
he gets charged with a million charges when he's not
the president, but he still gets back and this time
he gets back in much stronger.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
He's got to be admired. He's got to be admired.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Do you worry about what's I mean? I guess it
doesn't really matter to us what happens in the US
to some extent, But do you worry about where everybody's
going to vote for someone like Trump to put him
by such a big majority.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
No, I don't worry about it because it's going to
be a long time before it affects Australia. And I
think Australia is a very strong, little strong country. And
I don't think we'll accept anything that we don't choose
to accept. I don't think we'll be overrun by the
whims of Donald Trump.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
I read some of that. You have interviewed seventeen prime ministers.
I get excited when interview too. You've interviewed seventeen prime
minister's Australian prim I think it's.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
More than seventeen, No, seventeen.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
And of which twice was Kevin Rudd. In those seventeen
prime ministers. Is there any any standouts that.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
You rut here? Oh? Yeah, Paul Keating as a standout,
Alarican Alaricon as a great brain.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, you have plenty going on up there, and the.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Great brain Malcolm Fraser. I admired greatly and spent a
lot of time with Malcolm Fraser most of them. I've
got on very well with GoF Whitlam. I had a
New Year's Eve with got Whitlam in Paris in his
propellatial Paris home. He and my wife at that time
(23:42):
and Margaret and Goffell had New Year's Eve together, which
was great. Yes, I've known a lot of prime ministers
and I've been very close to quite a few prime ministers.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
If we look at Paul Keating because he went to
my school, actually he was a fuse ahead of me,
but he was the as I recall it, the I
don't know what it was, the head of the student
representative council. Even in those days. He was sort of
very much aware of unionism and sort of you know
what should be done in relation to making things better
(24:15):
at the university at the school. But Paul was always
really smart at school, Like it was well known that
Paul Kenny was one of the smart kids at school
in terms of his policy in Australia, he was big
between eighty seven and nineteen eighty seven and to their
nineteen eighty seven and nineteen ninety six. Do you think
(24:40):
that Paul was too on us for his own good.
And why say that? Why say that is because I
remember two things that he said that were turned against him.
The first was, this is the recession we had to have. Yeah,
and on your said that, on my share he said.
(25:01):
And he also said, it'll show this something about the
Banana Republic.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, he said that.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
On and but over time they were used against him
the media and then turned those around. And I think anyway,
and I think one of the reasons he lost the
election as prime minister when he was Prime minister was
largely because of his intellectual honesty and no regard for
(25:28):
what the fallout might be by being intellectually honest, because
he had a huge intellect. Still that I was obviously,
whereas today you never hear prime ministers doing saying anything
that's even slightly dangerous, not even slightly dangerous.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, I mean, John Howard certainly wasn't a worse was
he He said what he wanted to say and said
it pretty well. I admire and still do it my
John Howard, and I admired and do admire Paul Keating.
Paul Keating had a brain like a steel trap. You know,
(26:12):
he was onto everything. He was very highly early intelligent
still is. I presume I don't see him much these days.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
I had lunch with him three or four years ago,
and he's and we had it in a place in Bondi,
and it's quite amazing. He pulled out a photo copy
of a newspaper Financial Review front page with a note
on it written in his writing, and he showed it
(26:44):
to me. I don't know how he kept it. It
was from nineteen ninety six or ninety ninety five or
something like that. The paper was back, and it was
twenty years before I'd seen him, but he was able
to find this because we're gonna have lunch and on
it was a reference to his economic policy about deregulation,
(27:08):
and sort of the point he was trying to make
was one of the reasons my business was very successful
lending money to people to buy houses, was because of
his change in economic policy. And it's true what he
said was true. But my point is he's so smart
(27:29):
and so intellectually organized that he knew how to put
his hand on this photocopy of this front page of
the Financial View quoting him back in nineteen ninety six.
That's scary smart yeah, and I don't think most people
(27:49):
give him the credit for being as smart or as
intellectually voluminous as he was. And I don't think we
have anybody in the last ten years.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Don't underrest abate John Howard.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
No, I can't remember how far back John goes now,
but definitely John Howard is up there, definitely, and Peter
Costello in terms of his portfolio too. Definitely, but they're
more too. Yeah, there were two thousand and between two
thousand and two thousand and five, I think, yeah, maybe
they're definitely. Last twenty years Howard's been around, but past that,
(28:26):
I don't know if we've really had anybody who had
that sort of I don't think we have either bandwidth,
you know, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
We have either we've had. Yeah, I'm trying to think
of somebody. Rud No, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Morrison, No, Alban No, Alban easy.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, interesting character, Albertisi, very very nice man.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Everyone seeds to love him as a bloke. Everyone, I
don't really know. Everyone tells me that he is a
good person, a good bloke. I wonder whether or not
he's got a massive machine behind him, though, which is
trying to please everybody because I mean, the Labor Party
is a pretty tough environment to be in, especially with
(29:22):
the unions.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I think I think he's pretty safe sort of fellow Albanize,
you know, I think that he's a you can count
on him. I don't think he vacillates a great deal,
whereas a lot of politicians do by necessity because they
go with the crowd.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
That's very interesting because because I wonder whether or not
politics has become about popularist what's popular? You know, what
is popular? And are are we just voting for what's
popular today? Because the average voter doesn't really I don't know,
(30:02):
we don't the average voter, not not older people like me,
but the average voter, the younger voter. They just go
with what's in it for me sort of thing. Do
you I mean, you're been observer of people for a
long long time, and what do you think about the
average voter today and politics generally?
Speaker 2 (30:17):
I mean, I think a lot of a lot of
the average voters today couldn't give a fuck, you know,
I think that they very layers are fair about voting.
It's something that is an accepted way of life. It's
something that that you've got to do, and you do it,
and I don't know how that they spent a lot
of time thinking about.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
It, and they've got to do it because it's compulsory. Sorry,
they've got to do it because it's compulsory.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, and they'll get a fine if they don't.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, if it wasn't compulsory to be very easy interesting
to see to see the outcome.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
That would be interesting, Like the US, you know, be
interesting to see who actually went and really wanted to
vote because they passionately you believe in that person or
that person or that party, in that part or this party.
It would be extremely interesting to see that that outcome
in Australia. And that's where you know, that's why Trump's
(31:13):
so amazing. Like I don't know if Trump's a genius
or the world's best marketer or I don't know. I
can't get ahead around the guy.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Like, oh, I think I think he's a latent genius.
I think underneath all that there's a there's a highly
intelligent and very cunning man. I think that he's very
cunning in what he does and the way he doesn't.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, that's so he's genius is in his way of
working everybody out working out what the audience wants or
the voters want, and then playing into that well reading
the room.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Well, that's what clever communicators do.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Yeah, correct, Reading the room is probably one of the
most important things that a radio presenter has to have,
I mean a radio yeah, radio host has to have.
You you need to read your audience. How did you
do that before day? Like today you can get you know,
Ann and our analysts come in and say, well, you
(32:19):
got fifty two percent female, their age between nineteen and
thirty nine. They're all single mothers or something like that.
Today you can get that sort of that data. But
when you were first doing radio, or when you first
got into your rhythm of radio we became more popular,
how did you know what your audience wanted or did
you not care? You just gave them what you thought
(32:41):
they should have. I'd ask them really like surveys.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Well, I listened closely to what they wanted to.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Talk about, as in feedback, talkback, yeah, talkback yeah yeah.
And would you attribute any of your success, you know,
which was immense? Would you attribute any of your success
to other people in your organization who might have assisted you,
like did you have some was it one person or
people who sat with John Laws and like as a producer,
(33:10):
or someone who took copious notes.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
There are a lot of people you saying around and
make suggestions, most of them useless. No, I really just
did it the way I wanted to do it, because
I'm not terribly ciivil. I'm not the smartest man on
the block. So I had to I had to absorb
(33:35):
what the people who were listening wanted, and then I'd
order it to my way of seeking and give it
to them.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
And just send it back out. And then in terms
of your guess, there's a different eraror. But in terms
of guess, were you someone who was always prepared to
go and hang out with the guests or entertain the guests,
or or do guests come to you because you had
such a following and they needed your station to talk
about whatever it is that they're trying to promote.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I just did what I wanted to do. I didn't
I didn't take instruction from anybody apropos what went on
on the program. I mean, there have been a couple
of attempts to rein me in and support somebody that
I didn't want to support, and I told them to
get nicked and did it my way, and I've been
(34:30):
very lucky because it worked.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
So have you had any I mean obviously you have,
But who would be some of the let's call it
famous guests that you had, like big names sorry, who
are some of the big names of guests that you
had in your in your your period and.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
Your time as radio What people have interviewed? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh,
Betty Davis. Wow, Charlton Heston, one of my favorites, call
me Chuck. He was good. Charlton Heston. Robin Williams, Wow,
I had Robin Williams said he only had five minutes.
(35:08):
He was there for three hours.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
God, he was funny. He was so funny. I mean
he and I just sat there and laughed and laughed
and laughed. I have no idea what it sounded like
coming out of your radio, but we had a terrific
time together. I loved him and still do. Highly highly
intelligent mind like a steel trap. And of course there
(35:30):
have been others, like plenty of others who I mentioned before,
Betty Davis.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
So can you use it? I mean most people wouldn't.
Wouldn't a lot of younger people listen to this show.
Don't know who Betty Davis is, and they might might
have heard of her, but she was like an obviously
famous movie star. What was the characteristics? What were characteristics?
What was she like? Was she easy to talk to
or difficult to talk to?
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Betty Davis? Yeah, well, anybody's easy to talk to if
you ask the right questions.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
What about the way she looked? What about her? There's
a song Betty Davis's eyes. I mean, did you look
into her eyes?
Speaker 2 (36:15):
I mean, she was just she was terrific to talk
to because she was sharp as attack and she'd give
as good as she got. And I remember, I don't
know if you saw a movie called Now Voyager.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
No I didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Black and white movies should see it. She's in it
with Paul Henried and a couple of other good ones,
and there's a line in it where he wants to
go further than she wants to go with the relationship,
and she says to him, mister whatever his name was,
(36:55):
we have the sun. Let's not ask for the moon,
which was in the ways you delivered the line fabulous.
They're wonderful to watch, good actors.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
How was it your memory is so good?
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I don't know, but I remember a lot. There's a
lot to remember, though, there's a hell of a lot
to remember. There's a lot that I don't especially want
to remember. But if you're stuck with it, you're stuck
with it.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
He is a nightmare that can be annoy me. But
because when I was listening to you with the two Murray's,
you're remembering the names of people who you just came
across in places like Bendigo, or some guy when you
were somewhat when are your parents your parents sent you
out to becoming Jack Arru and you remember the name
(37:43):
of some guy that was the person to look after
you at that at the farm or at the rural property.
They're like a random periods of time in your life.
Like we're going back seventy odd years. Did you always
have a do you always know? You how a bloody
great memory? Like or this is something you just accepted
about yourself because I have to remember twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
I'm not as I said to you, I think I
said to you before. I'm not much into self analysis.
I don't I don't think about myself too much, and
I don't analyze what I say or what I think
very much. Because if I did, I probably wouldn't say
a lot of the things I said.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
That's that's probably not a bad way of putting it.
And I guess if you and is that because you
don't care though you don't give.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
A shit, No, no, nothing, nothing really bothers me.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Because because I mean, maybe you've got the formula for
a good life. I mean, that's what I'm trying to
get here. I know you like a lunch, and you
like a glass of wine or whatever, and you like
good company around you. But maybe because I mean, I've
been doing this thing about this project. Okay, I've been
working on this project. Okay, how do I lift to
one hundred? How could I lift one hundred? I'm trying
(39:03):
to work out if I can, like trying to. I
want to live longer than my dad. My dad died
when he was ninety, and I thought, well, I'd like
to add another ten years and just see if I can.
And all of it tells me, don't need the wrong food,
exercise all the time, sleep really well, don't drink booze.
Then I look at someone like you. You unfortunately can't exercise
(39:24):
much of the moment, but you love a lunch, You
don't want to drink. Nothing seems to bother you. And
here you are with a memory like like nothing. Your
memory is fantastic. I wonder whether or not you've got
the answer to what I've been trying to find out.
I mean, is it?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Do you? I do have the answer?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
What is it? It's private, that's private. You're not going
to share it, but you do it. You are doing
something that is the way you have lived your life
is like an envy of a lot of people. You're
not really worried about what you say and do. You're
not overthinking things, You're not self analyzing yourself, which is
(40:07):
what everybody else seems to do, especially these days of
social media. And I wonder whether or not those things
are actually impacting our lives negatively, and we should be
just saying it doesn't matter, Just get on with your life.
Live the lawsy life, double l.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I've never I've never sort of differentiated between my private
life and my working life. It's all sort of run
into each other, my working life and my private life.
There's never been a great separation.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
As you were coming up the stairs here to come
into the studio as a gentleman out the front, there
who I see. They're having coffee there all the time.
And he says somebody about a restaurant that he's used
to see you at. You're somewhat famous for going to restaurants.
You're somewhat famous for going to restaurants. I heard you
talking on another radio interview about Bond RECORDO. He was
(41:09):
talking about some restaurant down at the finger Wolf, which
is I think that's one of the rests I used
to see you at. Have you always lived this sort
of life like in terms of finding the best restaurants
and hopefully good company to go with it. Has that
has mean something? Is that a thing for you? Do
they find really good food, really high quality food.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
I'm not a foodie, no, but I care about the atmosphere.
I like to go to restaurants because I'd like to
see what the other people are doing. I like to
watch other people. I'm an observer.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, it would for people who don't know Bond recorders.
Old school, old old school restaurant like Italian Restaurant in
Paddington had a very famous reputation, terrific restaurant. I haven't
been are for years, but it is still the same
as good as it has been. It's only very small
(42:04):
relatively speaking, it's a small smallest restaurant, but it's very
good still.
Speaker 2 (42:10):
Oh yeah, you bitch, it's one of my favorites. I'd
probably go once for fortnite or something. Yeah, at least
once a fortnite.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
And would you would you go to restaurant? Would you
eat out four or five nights a week? No? What?
Would you eat it out four or five nights a week?
Speaker 3 (42:26):
No?
Speaker 2 (42:28):
So you ate?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Will you go home and tonight and have a jeez?
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Tasting beans on toasted?
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
I quite like baked beans on toast? I do too good. Well,
we've got good taste. Yeah, okay, so let's open the
baked beans on toast restaurant.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I'm not sure how well I goo. I think the
restaurant thing is probably not my gap. I'm not sure
whether you make any money out of it.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
It could cost us a lot in the end, but
everything doesn't depend on whether you're going to make money
out of it or not.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I agree with that, and I like to show I
don't make any money of this show. I mean not
just because I enjoy talking to people with this not
a money making venture.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
You mean you're not getting paid for interviewing me.
Speaker 1 (43:07):
No, not at all. I'm the show.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I think you should. You should be given danger money
for interviewing me. And you don't know that I'm not
going to say fuck.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Well, I say fuck all the time. It's okay on
the radio, on this show all the time. Well you've
got to stop it because you know, but John, it's
my show. I can say what the fuck I like.
I mean, I do, don't care if people don't like it.
They you know what I say, don't listen to me.
They don't have to listen to this podcast if they
don't like Misswearing. I mean, I don't mind I say.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
That to people do. But the poor devils can't help themselves.
They have to tune in.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
They have to listen to you.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Ye see what the see what this barstard is doing today.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Yeah, I haven't got any reach anywhere near those heights
in my podcast world. And I've only been doing this
for now eight years, so it's probably gonna have to
do it for another forty years before I can get
to that stage where people can't not listen to me.
I look forward to getting to that sort of days,
those sort of days, John can as just on a
(44:03):
more personal basis, private basis, can ask you about your family.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Well, I'm very close to my family, even though the
tyranny of distance exists. I mean some are in the country. Uh,
some are in another state. But I have pretty good
relations with with with my family, don't I. I'm asking
(44:28):
Jodie because she knows everything I do.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
And you know, when you want to come over here?
She said, no, thanks, But you're you're obviously your grandkids. Yeah,
you've got great grandkids yet not yet. One's on the way,
on the way, yeah, on the way. And do they
(44:51):
come around and visit Grandpa? Like is that a thing
for you and your life? Like?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Do you know because they're in the country, most of
them in the book?
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, okay, yeah, okay in the book yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
So I don't I don't get to see them all
that often. But when I do, we have a good time.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Yeah. And what do they call you out of interest?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Oh? They called me no, no.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
No, I assume there's some Italian connection there Isn't that
the Italian word for.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yeah, it's Italian.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
You're not going to tell me your name for grandpa? Yeah?
But why they call you nono? Why would you get Italian? Nono,
where's the Italian?
Speaker 2 (45:36):
My eldest stepdaughter went to Italy, won a scholarship to
an art school in Italy. She was a very very clever,
too clever, too clever, and she started to use Italian
language and she called me noo even though I was
(46:00):
her stepfather or whatever it was. So it sort of stuck.
The kids like no, no, and I don't mind it.
I like it better than granddad.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
It sounds better totally. Can I tell you a story
when my grandson was born, my first grandson. I have
a little private WhatsApp group like a that I talked
to my four sons and we all talk on this
WhatsApp group and I said, they said, hey, Dad. They
(46:34):
said to me, my son's what do you want the
grandkid to call you? And I don't want to be
called grandpa, you know, And I said, just call me Mark.
He's called me Mark. That'll do. And my oldest son,
who's a pretty cheeky fella, he's forty four, he said, Dad,
(46:58):
when we were young, every time we asked you something
for something, you would always say the Greek word for no,
orki orky. It just means no, he said, so why
don't we get the grandson to call you ORKI? And
(47:19):
I said, oh, that's okay, that's pretty cool, and then
we stopped talking. And then another time we come up
and they were laughing at it, and they actually said, Dad,
Orkie doesn't stand for no, it stands for old cranky.
(47:39):
See you went t which is? And I said, I mean,
I don't my grandson called me, oh cranky gunt. I
don't want that, and how it calls me pop. But
that's how my kids responded to me when I asked them,
what would you like my grandson's named George? What would
you like George to call you? And that's what they
(48:00):
come up with, orkie? Oh double see why?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Yeah? I like nano.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, I think no no is much better. I'd take
nine o two. That's why I was That's why I
was interested to find out what your family wanted their
kids to call you, you know, like whether or not
they reflect on their on their grandfather in a character sense,
like what's what's your character to them?
Speaker 2 (48:23):
Here? I don't know that they call me much? Ay you?
I think?
Speaker 1 (48:32):
And John? And speaking of John, do you is what
what do you have any interaction with social media? What
do you think of it? For you? What do you
why not?
Speaker 2 (48:42):
I don't know if you're lonely, if you're bored, and
if you're stupid. I suppose it's handy to find somebody
who's equally lonely and bored and stupid have a year
under them. But I don't understand it really.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
And so what do you do in your you know,
when you wake up in the morning, I mean, or
go to bed at night? I mean, what do you
what do you do to entertain yourself? Do you watch television?
Do you watch movies?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Do you watch television a bit? I'd like to watch
old movies. I read a lot. I read a hell
of a lot.
Speaker 1 (49:15):
Do you read like you mean, like as in documentaries
or fiction?
Speaker 2 (49:20):
I quite like fiction, but I like real life stories better.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, so like a documented story about somebody like yourself.
I was to ask you, have you is there some
powet or singer that you've read stories about that that
you really like reading about? Like, for example, I don't
know someone late Leonard Cohen for arguments sake. I mean,
(49:47):
is the somebody that you've always admired in let's say,
the entertainment game. Apart from people like Betty Davis, but
like like say some singer or musician that you've read about.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Oh, yes, I could think of a lot. I could
think of a lot of musicians and singers that I admire.
Tony Bennett is number one for me. Beautiful voice here,
fabulous singer and a good bloke. Are you new him?
Good bloke? And what a voice? What a singer? That
(50:24):
ability he had to phrase a song.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
In terms of timing, Oh, he.
Speaker 2 (50:30):
Had a hold back on a word and then catch up. Terrific?
Speaker 1 (50:35):
Did you that's interesting that you actually break this his
skill down like that. Is that something that that you
do with when you're sort of listening to a song
where you're listening to some music, Is that something you
do you actually try to listen to the phrasing?
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Well, yeah, well idea, have I listened to it all?
You know? I have? I listened to it in its entirety?
Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (51:01):
But what does that mean entirety? There? Because most people
listen to most younger people listen to music, they're just listening.
They're just it's like a transaction. It's done, it's over.
Listen to the next song's done, it's over. You sound
like you sort of really sort of sink your mind
into the song and have a good heart listen at it.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Ah. I just I just love music. I don't mind
too much what sort of music, except I'm not into
bark hues. But I do like I do like music.
I'd like country music, I'd like modern music. I like
(51:42):
Mama Cass the way she sings, I'd like her. She's
she was a good old bird, Mama Cass. Did you
meet her here? I met them all one way or another.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
You mean one way or the other, either radio or
just socially, both both. Well, and your life's been pretty blessed,
pretty amazing then in some respects having the opportunity to
meet all these because that's what radio does.
Speaker 2 (52:11):
I mean. Yes, I know, you're quite right. I have
been very blessed and very fortunate to have met a
lot of the people that I've that I've met and
talked to in show business, and I made a lot
of friends. You know. Neil Diamond is just one of
(52:31):
the best flakes you'd meet in ten lifetimes. Mama Cass
I met in the early days. She was great. The
members of the Kingston Tria, all those those big names
of the time. Do you remember the Kingston Trier.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
I don't, but I certainly remember Neil diamond because that
album Hot August Night. My mother used to play that
on our HMV record player, like nearly twenty four hours
a day was it was always on What Hot August Night?
His album album album Neil Diamonds.
Speaker 2 (53:07):
What a great album.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
Yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 2 (53:11):
It's got to be one of the best albums of
all time.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah, I remember it so vividly, and because Muma was
like a prize, like you know, you know it wasn't.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
He's one of the best blokes to Yeah, good bloke.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
What about Cat Stevens. You haven't been Cat Stevens. Yeah,
I reckon. He's music's beautiful. I love his songs. I
love his I love his stuff.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
If you want to sing out, sing out, if you
want to sing out, I can't think of the words.
If you want to be blue, be blue. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
There's probably very few people that have come into Australia,
like over the last fifty years of any sort of
note that if they're if they're in the show business,
they probably didn't go through your studio. There's probably very few.
Speaker 2 (54:05):
A lot of people.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Yeah, but that's that's pretty amazing. I mean, I know
you said you don't analyze your life very much, but
I'm analyzing your life. And that's I said. You're blessed,
but you've probably met more more people than most people
in your lifetime, more people than most people have ever
even read about. You know, you've seemed to have met
(54:28):
up with everybody, and like, why John Laws, why do
they come to see you? Do you ever think how
am I? How am I this person sitting here getting
to meet all these interesting people? You ever thought about that?
Speaker 2 (54:43):
I never? As I said to you before, I'm not
much into self analysis. I don't sort of really care
too much about anything so long as I don't deliberately
hurt anybody. I don't want to do that. I don't
want to deliberately hurt anybody. Of course I've hurt people,
and I will again, but not deliberately. But apart from that,
(55:05):
I just wanted to live my life. And if I
can make people happy, that's good. And if I can
get people who are thoroughly pissed off and I don't
want to know anything about me, that's all right too.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
I think that that's not a bad way to leave
this this conversation and then close off because that's probably
been John Laws his whole career, says what he thinks
and he can back it up. You're not afraid to
say what you think.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
No, be true to yourself. That's the secret. Make sure
that what you say is what you really believe, and
if it's something that's very controversial, make sure you can
back it up with facts.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
You just don't say for the sake of it. You mean, yeah,
you're saying make sure that you can back it up. Yeah, yeah,
I mean, I know you don't like to reflect on
what you have done, but if you would say one sentence,
if you could put into one sentence why you've been
so successful. Do you think that's possible as a radio host,
(56:11):
I'm talking about.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Yeah, honesty, honesty, even if it gets you into travel
and it does to thine own self. Be true. That's
the secret. I can bullshit to you and you will
(56:34):
or won't accept it, but I know within myself whether
I'm telling the truth or whether I'm faking.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
It, bullshitting yourself. Yeah. Thanks from host John for a
brilliant for a brilliant Koreer, and thanks very much for
having you've done
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