#214 Michelle Payne: The Melbourne Cup winner on making history, tragedy & the dark side of fame

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Michelle Payne, Welcome to straight Talk.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
Thank you, thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're most welcome.

Speaker 3 (00:04):
Actually, that's a real honor privilege to have someone like
you sitting here in front of me. To be frank
with you, I never thought. I never expected.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
Famous is not a good word. I don't like that
word famous.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
But have someone as highly respected as you and having
achieved the levels you've achieved, and you know, I don't
mean this in a condescending way, but being female as
well in a male sport, which you know, that's something
that I never envisaged. And and thanks to our great
friend Naneah Melton. I'm so happy that you're here. And

(00:38):
bear with me because I mean everyone in Australia follows
Melbourne Cup. Everyone Australia has a bit of a bet.
But I don't know much about your game or the
game you used to be in now you're a trainer.
We just bear with me a little bit because maybe
this is even better that I don't know, because I'm
going to ask some questions you might think a bit naive,

(00:58):
but the things I'm really curious about, and before, but
before I do that part, there's something else I'm really
curious about.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
What it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
And I watched the Netflix show on you you know,
and you know, I saw all that sort of stuff,
But I'm so glad I actually got you here in
front of me. What is it like to be the
youngest of ten kids? I mean, that's like mental I
just can't imagine. I just can't imagine what it'd be like,

(01:30):
especially as well not having your mom there. From from
you probably never would never really knew it. I will never
had a chance of knowing you. What's that like when
you reflect back.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, it's funny you say that. Like, as I'm older now,
I realized how unusual that is to have such a
big family. But obviously I didn't know any different growing up,
so it was it was all we knew. It was
a madhouse. My dad did his best, raising all ten
of us on his own. When Mom passed away, I
didn't have a room for the first seven years of
my life, didn't have a bed, so I just found

(02:01):
somewhere to sleep. And then after that I shared with Stevie,
my the second youngest, older brother, who has Down syndrome,
and that in itself, you know, had it challenges because
he would snore and talk to himself and whatever. But yeah,
it was. It was fast paced kids everywhere. When I
was born, my oldest sister, two older sisters were already

(02:23):
riding in races, so they were fifteen and sixteen, so
they were off to the races. So as I grew
a lot of the other kids below them started racing.
So we had a house full of jockeys. And my
dad was a horse trainer, so up early training the
horses with him. Us younger kids stayed in the house
and cleaned it. We all had our chores while the
older ones went out and did the stable work and

(02:46):
got the horses done. So it was just a working family.
My dad loved it. He said it was some of
the best years of his life, even though he had
obviously lost my mum, which was devastating. That a really
good marriage and loving marriage. But yeah, it was. It
was pretty fun, I have to say.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
It was fun. Always fun.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Not always fun. You know, when we went to school
and we were tired, falling asleep at school because we're
up early doing our jobs, and thought we were a
little bit hard done by that. We had to work
in our school friends, you know, were having a sleep
in and just had to get ready and off to school.
But when we look back, we had so much fun.
We were always you know, outside playing games and activities,

(03:30):
and I think sometimes we look back and think we
survived because obviously hard for dad to keep track of
ten kids. He just had to let us go. Stevie
and I were the youngest two, and he was, you know,
older than me but down syndrome. So you know, we
were off doing whatever we did out on the farm
and having the time of our lives. But you know,

(03:50):
looking back, you know it was probably a bit dangerous
in a way, but at the same time a wonderful childhood.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
It's because not only were you one of ten, which is, like,
as I not normal even back in that time, when
if we go back twenty thirty years, that wasn't normal
there neither. But then of course, no mother, your dad.
I mean I got four kids, four sons, and I

(04:17):
pretty much raised my four sons on mine. They live
with me for a whole lot of complicated reasons, and
that was enough for me. But I had, you know,
a nanny and a driver pick him up from school
to drop him to sport. Has someone to come and
do all the washing and sort of all I did
was go to work and have dinner with them at night.

(04:39):
Your dad, do you sit back and reflect on how
the hell did you do it?

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Absolutely? Obviously the older you get, you realize. And he's
a pretty amazing man in his own way. Like I said,
to even be relaxed enough to let us go out
and play here, he had to. I think he couldn't
have survived if he was worrying about every one child.
In a way, a bit of luck went our away
with that, because you know, somebody could have got injured,
sort of having that free rain on the farm, Like

(05:06):
we had motorbikes and like four wheelers. There was a
channel that ran beside our dairy farm, which we had
at one point growing up, and yeah, you know, we
didn't even know how to swim, but we learned to
swim in the channel by ourselves. So a little bit
of luck come his way as well. But yeah, when
I look back and think what he did, you know,
running the family, running the business, obviously having the dairy farm,

(05:29):
which is relentless work, you know, morning and night. Not
only with that, though, he raised us by giving us competitions, geography, competitions, spelling,
these maths, competitions. He was never too tired to do
that with us, and I just think that is amazing
raising ten kids, running a business and being able to
do that as well. I honestly take my hat off

(05:52):
to him. And with that as well, he always made
sure we had really good manners. You know, if you
meet somebody, shake the hand with them in the eye,
give them a good, firm handshake. He was never too
tired to do that. And he is a remarkable man.

Speaker 3 (06:06):
What was his superpower when you think about it, he
must have some sort of superpower, Like I mean, that's
something like it looks like sound by the sound of it,
and obviously from what I saw from the show, and
I've heard nothing other than what I saw on the show,
it's like he just jumped.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Off the cross like he's so good. Well, what was
his natural superpower?

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Was his endurance or was it his his ability to communicate?
Or was it his ability to like a certain resilience
or stamina that he had.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
I think probably a certain resilience and his capability to
just handle hard times. Like obviously I used to think
about when I was growing up and I was having
tough times writing, had a bad fall or my writing
career wasn't going as good as I'd like it to be,
or just just down in the dumps. And I would

(06:57):
think back to that day when they came to the
door and said my mum had been killed taking the
kids to school in a car accident, and just think,
how would anybody get through that, and how he did.
Would have just said to the kids, you know, we've
got to stick together and get through it together. And
that's his mindset. I've lost two sisters since then, and

(07:19):
same thing. Devastating, and he's absolutely devastated, but he just
stays so strong. And I think a big part of
that is his faith. He is very religious, rare Catholic.
We would always go to church every Sunday growing up,
all the kids, and you know, we'd be sitting around
watching TV or having dinner and he'd say, okay, kids,

(07:40):
we'll say the Rosary, and we'd stop and say the
Rosary three times all together, and he'd just always talk about,
you know, his faith, and I think that is what
got him through losing my mum and then again my
two sisters that followed, and I think it's it's definitely
helped me through my career as well, because you know,

(08:01):
life is tough and having that faith is certainly a
way of coping. For sure.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
With your older siblings, particularly the female ones, are they
much more matriarchal to say the younger kids.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
As a result of your moum not being there. Do
you think do they think they took.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Up the flag for your dad realizing there was no
leading woman in the family, so to speak, and that
they knew that they had to do the work of
what their mother would have had to do if the
mother had been around.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Definitely, they were remarkable, I think, having had the presence
of her as they were growing up, and from what
I've been told by Dad, she was an amazing lady.
She had ten children, she ran the books of the business,
She cooked and cleaned. Amazing cook They said she was
Swiss and she cooked a lot of Swiss meals. And

(08:57):
we had a cow. She'd milk the cow for the kids,
and then she take the leftover milk into the homeless
shelter in Ballarat. That just you know, and I don't
know what spare time, you know, obviously it had a
million clothes to watch with ten kids, So she sounded
like a pretty amazing woman and I think, you know,
my sister's had that role model growing up. And when

(09:18):
I remember being sort of four as young as I
can remember, sort of four or five, and my dad
always used to talk about her. I think he wanted
me to feel that presence of her and used to
tell me every day, you know, how much he loved her,
and how much she missed her, and how much she
wished he told her more that he loved her. And
then I think, yeah, my sisters saw the need to
be nurturing to us younger kids, and especially probably the

(09:42):
second oldest Trees, she really took the role of being
the mother. She made sure we always had a meal
on the table. She was full time race riding at
the time, herself only a kid at the same time,
and just remarkable. And I remember sort of being in
younger primary school years and Mother's Day at school, I'd
buy her a Mother's Day gift. I didn't feel like

(10:03):
I didn't have a mom to buy a gift for.
It was just I'd buy one for Trees. So, you know,
I feel so lucky to have had their presence in
our lives because their mothers now and get to watch that,
and yeah, just remarkable. To think how they took that
role on it at such a young age.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
Do those things in turn and have those things in turn,
like your dad's resilience and these sort of mental toughness
and your sister's ability to nurture the whole family? Do
those Do you think those things stood by? Because you know,
often parents tell kids, you've got to be this, and
you can't do that, and.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
You've got to do that.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
But actually kids watch what their parents are doing, and
or older brothers sisters for that matter too, and they
tend to do what they see as opposed to what
they're here. And do you reckon in some of those
darker times that you've had, like when you've been injured,
et cetera, when you're being rejected, or when you're trying
to get on a group one that those observations stood

(11:03):
by And was it conscious? Did you consciously think of that?
My dad's done pretty tough. I owe it to him
up here.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Absolutely. I think I couldn't remember from as young as
seven years old being out in the stables cleaning, you know,
doing learning the chores and cleaning the boxes and just
watching trees for example. Of all of them, she stood
out to me the most because she was so no fuss.
She'd get in there, she'd get the boxes done so
quickly and efficiently. And I remember at that age, look,

(11:33):
you know, thinking that is just amazing.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
He was cleaning the crab out basically, yeah, but quick.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
No fuss, just get in there, get it done. And
I honestly remember thinking at the time, you know, how good.
And that was my role model. So I always thank
you her for a lot of my success and my
other brothers and sisters, because especially my sisters, because you know,
it was tough. It was much tougher for them riding

(11:59):
back sort of ten years before I started, or even
fifteen years before I started, because there wasn't many of them.
Sometimes I didn't have a jockey's room to go into
that there was like a trailer or something for them
to change and prepare for their race. But they were
just no fuss. They get out there, they go to
the races. They didn't see themselves, you know, as a

(12:19):
female jockey, and not poor me. Sometimes I get a
bit frustrated because my brother Patrick would pinch their rights
and they'd be a fair bit of swearing and carrying
on at home. But you know, I think their presence
and you know, watching and learning from them was just
the best start I could have had to going into

(12:39):
a career that is, you know, or was very very
male dominated.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
I mean, I don't mean to be condescending when I
look back at when I look at what I know
of your history and your life, it's just full of challenges,
but more importantly full of conquering challenges, like just one
half the other. So mom passed away when you're a
young baby, not just pastway tragic accident, you're one of
ten kids, that itself is a challenge. Then you've got

(13:04):
you know, you observe your father dealing with that challenge,
and that itself would have been a challenge because you
probably feel guilty on occasions that had to do things
that you know wouldn't ordinarily be wouldn't be asked of
a father. While some might think is a challenge you had, Stevie,
probably not a challenge because my.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Interaction with.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Boys and or girls or got men who have had
who have had who have Down syndrome, they just tend
to be some of the most loving, simple people get
life really simple.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
They get it.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
They're generally speaking, they are the best to deal with.
I have a great empathy for those children and adults
in that situation, but some would see that as another challenge.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
But somehow you managed to conquer it.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Out of all your brothers and sisters, it seems like
you've got the closest relationship. Do you think that's because
you were closest in age or just you two just
hit it off.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
Definitely because we were close in age with little kids.
Wasn't even Stevie Michelle. It's just like, has anyone seen
the little kids? If one was somewhere, the other little
girl's there, Yeah, little girl. So we just were together
all the time, basically more so because the kids that
were a bit older than us said, oh you sare
any and go you know we did. We were too
little to play their games with them, so it was

(14:20):
just Stevie and I and obviously I didn't know the difference,
so it was nothing for me. And to be honest,
like you spoke about with down syndrome, so're the most beautiful,
loving people in the world. And how lucky was I
to grow up with Stevie and the empathy and everything
he has. For example, this is what happens in a

(14:41):
big family and where dad let us go a bit.
Our brother bought us boxing goals for Christmas because we
thought it would be funny if he put it up
them on us to fight. Yep. I was five, Stevie
was seven. And then they made a ring with all
the kids because it was enough to make it a
big enough ring for us, and had us fighting. And
Steve didn't want to hit me because he just didn't

(15:02):
want to, like it's not in his nature. And I
get Steve getto and I'm like running around trying to
poke one into him, and he got me connected and
I started crying. Obviously he hurt me, and he felt
that bad. I remember looking up at his face and
he just devastated that he got me. Yeah, just an
amazing person to share my life and grow up with.

(15:23):
And you know, we've played you know, games together and
we just had the best fun. And sometimes we'd be
playing a game of cards and I might give him
one card to start with and I'd have the pack
because I knew that I was able to learn faster,
but he caught up eventually. Now we play one on
one fair even game and he's just remarkable and what

(15:44):
I've been able to watch him face his challenges and
grow and overcome things is just unbelievable, and even now
like he's forty forty two and just continues to grow,
get smarter. He's hilarious, He's so funny, quick witted, knows
you know the right moments to say things. He can

(16:06):
read people a lot better than a lot of people
without a challenge have. So honestly, we're just so lucky
to have him in our lives, especially me being so
close with him. We own our farms together now, and
he's just a pleasure and a privilege to be around
and to have.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
And I hope you don't mind me just ask a
couple of questions, because I'm actually fascinated by Stevie, And
you know, like Stevie, you fascinating me. And you're right.
I mean, I only know him from from the movie.
I don't know him. But do you think that I know,
I don't want to get too weird about God and

(16:43):
stuff like that and your mom and your late mother,
but do you think that to some extent, those people
like Stevie who have such a good heart and have
are so inspirational. I actually put there for a reason
for you to think to yourself, get on with it
and what you learn from those people if someone like Stevie,

(17:04):
Like it seems to me that someone like Stevie can
teach us all a lot of stuff, is it? Do
you ever thank your mother for that outcome?

Speaker 2 (17:14):
I just think, like we say many times, he's a
blessing and honestly, like in a way, a miracle to
have in our lives. He's now home with Dad. Dad's
eighty nine. I had a family, a house full of
ten kids. Imagine, you know, being left alone and lonely.
He has Stevie there living with him. They get on
unbelievably well. Dad teases Stevie like you wouldn't believe. I

(17:36):
know he's down syndrome, but we've never treated him like
he's down syndrome. And I think that's that's really been
the making of him and something I think that should
be maybe more documented, because he's so capable and can
handle so much responsibility because he's been given that chance
in life. And they, yeah, they just have the best time.
So for how the circumstances have unfolded with Mom pass

(18:00):
away and Dad obviously being left all the kids have
left home to now have him there with him is
unbelievable and again like to have him there on the
day of the Melbourne Cup strapping Prince of hens Ouce.
You know, to imagine that could have ever possibly happened,
you would give yourself tim into one chance growing up

(18:21):
or even more than that. So it is in a
way a bit of a blessing.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
And a miracle and fairy tale.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah it is. It's a fairy tale.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
I mean when I think of your dad at eighty nine,
and my father got to eighty nine, and you know
that eighty nine, they're a little frail and you know,
you know there's a lot that needs to be done
for them.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
They need a lot of assistance at that stage. And
also they feel a bit.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Mentally frail because you know it's getting on and you
know they're not as strong as they were before. And
for the fact that someone like Stevie can be there
as his companion, so to call, is he still doing strapping? Like?

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Is he still strapping horses? Stevie?

Speaker 2 (18:59):
He hasn't in the last few years. He needs a
knee operation, so he's not at the moment. He's still can,
but he's just a bit slower. But even that in
itself is amazing because the horses sense it and they
just slowed down for him. And it's funny story. I
think it was last year him and I took one
of our horses to the races at Renney Valley and

(19:20):
I laid it in with him, thinking, I'll just see
if it's going to be too strong, because earlier in
the day it was charging around and I was struggling
to keep up, and I thought it might be a
bit quick for him, and took it into the mounting
under said if you need a hand, I'll just be
in the middle watching it, and he's like you a rose.
The horse was like twenty thirty meters behind the one
in front of it slowed down that much just so

(19:41):
Stevie could comfortably keep up with it and just sense that,
you know, his you know, challenges. And one of the
most amazing things about working with you know, the horses,
the horses, how intuitive they are and how amazing you
know his connection with them is can.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
I explore that because I don't know, I've never had experience.
I have a bit of experience. It's in Turnial Park
when I was younger, like going to the stables there
and getting somebody to give us a horse and take
us a tour around ten year old park, et cetera.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
But horses are.

Speaker 3 (20:13):
Like an amazing looking animal, unbelievably athletic. They're big, muscular.
On one hand, they're really you know, you have a
great amount of respect for them. But on the other
they can be a bit scary too because they're so big,
and you know, you're by no means a titan in
terms of size. You're a jockey former jockey, and they're
the opposite. They are titans in the animal kingdom, and

(20:36):
they can do everything in an athletic sense. How is
it that you seemed about it and someone like stupid too,
and probably your brothers and sisters. I don't know much
about them, but have the ability to sort of have
command in relation to horses. About is it the fact
that you have great knowledge of how they think and operate,
or you have an empathy towards them, whether they have

(20:57):
an empathy towards you.

Speaker 1 (20:59):
What does that old like? I don't understand it.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
I think it's a whole range of things. Really, we
were brought up with them, so second nature to be
around them, even though they are huge animals. As you said,
But we were taught from a young age that they
need to respect you. So there's that level of respect
and then trust, they need to trust you as well.

Speaker 3 (21:19):
And actually, when you said you were taught from a
young age that they need to respect you, which no
doubt is what your dad told you. What does that
mean they need to respect you? Like, is that an
advice on as to how to approach the.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
Horse, how to handle them? Like if they just think
they can pull you around, they'll just do that, like
not not because they're bad animals, it's just because they
that's you know, you just need to firm that form,
that connection that they're not going to be able to
get away with doing whatever they want to want to do.
And even you know, from a five year old, no

(21:56):
matter how big they were, they still respect if you
show them that you're you know, strong enough and you'll
stand up to them. But they'll sense fear in a
second that they're unbelievably intuitive, Like obviously dogs are incredibly intuitive,
but every much, every every bit as much that as them.
So it's all about that they they and then once

(22:17):
you've got that, it's about mutual respect and then they
trust you and once you have their trust. It's the
most amazing feeling in the world, Like you could ride
a horse on a piece of cotton when when it,
you know, responds to you. And that feeling is one
of the best things about, you know, being a jockey,
because you need everything to be going your way in

(22:38):
a race. It's it's a game of inches. It's dangerous
and pardon parcel of that is having a horse that
will do what you want to do at you know,
split second decisions and stuff like that. So it makes
it a great sport in a way. In that way
because you're working with an animal and not just any animal,
you know, six hundred kilo beast And that's part of

(23:01):
what I love so much about writing, because it's not
easy and you have to work hard at it and
one of the most beautiful things about working with the
animals that we do.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
Do you know, we've just gone through maybe five factors
or so, you know, at the risk of repeating myself,
mother passed away at the age of six months, the
youngest of teen kids. An unbelievable relationship with your down
syndrome older brother too's older. Becoming a jockey, small, smallish

(23:35):
person dealing with a massive beast. Every thing I've asked
you about, most people would see as a challenge, some
would feel feeling and there's a number of other challenges
we're going to talk about a moment. Some people would
feel as on some occasionally the victim. But for some reason,
every one of them, you've turned into a good thing,
like it's some sort of blessing. Like everyone, where the

(23:58):
hell do you get that sort of mindset from? That's
a mindset game? You're born that way? Or would you
develop that way? Or did your dad drum it into
you or did you dream about it? Is it part
of your faith?

Speaker 1 (24:09):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Not sure? From a very young age, I was really
a quiet kid. I think probably being the youngest of
ten you'll put back into place pretty quickly. So I
watched and learned and listened a lot, and I think
that's a big thing. You obviously learn a lot more
when you're quiet and you're listening. And I had a
lot of brothers and sisters wanting to teach me too,

(24:30):
like I was a little one, and they just wanted
to help where they could. And I really am blessed
to have had the upbringing that I've had because of that.
But yeah, I think just you know, just sitting back
watching it all, also believing I could do it. I
think that was one of the biggest things. There's one
line that I've said a few times about my dad
and that he used to walk around the house saying,

(24:53):
just daily, the girls are as good as the boys,
they just need the opportunities. And you know, he was
just saying it because my older sisters are right and
they won't get in the riots. He thought sometimes they should,
and he just would say it off the cuff, not thinking,
you know, I would listen or take me so random. Yeah, ye,
and yeah, I just grew up listening to those words, thinking, well,

(25:14):
that sounds pretty good to me, sounds pretty right, so exactly,
and I grew up thinking, you know, why couldn't I be,
you know, as good as the boys. I work hard,
I've grown up with all my life, watched my older
sisters who did very well and just needed the opportunities
to prove that. And I think that, you know, simple

(25:34):
line of that as a young kid just embedded into
my brain and gave me the confidence to believe in myself.

Speaker 3 (25:40):
So you're saying to me, he didn't sit you down
and say to you, you can be as good as anybody,
or you know you can if you get the opportunity,
you can be as good as the boys or any boy.
But you just sort of randomly hurt it like as
part of his let's call it his pattern. You know
that the way he spoke, and you obviously heard it
a lot, and then there's something about your belief system

(26:02):
and so you believed him. What is it that has
gets a young kid? What do you think in your
case at least, is that for you as a young child,
believed in your dad Because you know, some times you
tell kids.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Things, you know, I said, we are four kids.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
I mean, they don't they say, yeah right, dad, Especially
these days, they don't believe everything I say. You know,
they believe in everything I say, particularly these days they
are older. But when even when they were kids, and
in fact, some personalities out of my son's would go
the opposite direction no matter what I said, but I
tended to say it to them as opposed to just

(26:41):
sort of randomly saying it. What is it about you
that allowed you to believe that what your dad said
was correct?

Speaker 1 (26:49):
Because that's the biggest challenge that you've overcome.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I think he wasn't, like you said, he wasn't saying
it directly to me or any of us. And he
probably even didn't even know I was listening, because we
was busy.

Speaker 1 (27:00):
It was.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
It was an noisy household. There was always fights and
you know, kids everywhere. So if I asked him, yeah,
I doesn't even know I tell that story because and
if I asked him that, he probably wouldn't even nearly
remember or think. You know, I was sitting there like, oh, yeah, right,
that sounds pretty right, and yeah, probably just that fact.
And you know, like I said, it was a busy household.

(27:23):
Kids were coming and going all the time. There's cars
everywhere in the front yard, race bags everywhere, saddles and
stuff like it. It's hard to even explain, to imagine.
The movie couldn't depict how crazy it really was, even
though they tried. So, yeah, just in that madhouse, and

(27:44):
you know, kids are coming home from the races. How'd
you go today? You don't know? Good got taken off
this one? So we were hearing all of those I
was hearing all of those things, you know, of just
every day working life. And you know, it wasn't pretend
everything was you know, survival and you know, a real
life job, and it's a tough job. You've got people

(28:05):
putting a lot of money into their horses, people gambling
on them, people yelling out over the fence at them,
you know, giving them grief or whatever. So I think
it was just a way of him supporting my older sisters,
you know, to you know, you can be as good
as the guys. You just need the opportunities and hopefully
one will come their way. And he also trained a

(28:27):
number of horses. I think he had around twenty five
and shared them as best he could between them all
as well. So he just needed a good horse to
give them that. And one story that blows me away
is my older sister Tree, So I spoke about she
was fourteen when she started racing, which I started at fifteen,
and I was such a baby. I thought I was ready.

(28:49):
And you get thrown into the world of racing and
you're inner field on this six hundred killer, out of
control because you're still getting stronger, getting pushed around from
pillar to post by the older job and I remember
thinking stuff, Oh my god, I didn't think this. I
wasn't going to be prepared because I've watched so many races.
She rode as a fourteen year old, and she was

(29:11):
riding for six months and dad had a horse going
for the Adelaide Cut, which is a two mile race
Group one at that point, which is top level, and
he needed a rider at forty seven kilos and he
was struggling to find somebody, and so he thought, I'll
put trees on. So by this stage she was fourteen
and a half years old've been riding six months going
into a two mile race on a stallion, which is

(29:34):
even bigger and stronger. To me, that blows me away
that you know she was able to do that, And
I asked her about it, she says, I was all right,
she just just went out there and did it. So
that was upbringing I had watching, you know, those those
sort of things and wouldn't be heard of today. I
think the younger ship can start riding at sixteen. So

(29:55):
just remarkable.

Speaker 1 (29:56):
You just said just as it was forty seven and
a half kilos.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
I think you said had forty seven, so she would
have been around forty five forty.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Five killows and just just on that.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
Just so we get a bit of an insight into
a jockey's life and I'd like to actually cover off,
you know, the training regimes, et cetera, in terms of
time and all that sort of stuff and the competition
around it. But just in terms of being forty five kilos,
even a.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Diminutive woman.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Would struggle at forty four to get to forty five kilos.
What does it actually mean like in terms of how
you lead your life. Maybe for the week before the
race and maybe maybe and I don't know, do you
need to train at do you need to take the
horse for training around the.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Paddock at forty five as well?

Speaker 3 (30:46):
Or or the it' say okay for you to be
much heavier before you lose weight, And what's the weight
loss program look like?

Speaker 1 (30:52):
How intense and hectic?

Speaker 2 (30:53):
So for her, she was fourteen, so she was really light.
For example, when I started racing, was forty seven at fifteen,
so sort of the build of our family and at
that age is still growing and you know she might
be fifty fifty five now for kill those still small. Yeah,
we're still small people. But as you get older and

(31:14):
you're mature and you get to your full size, that's
when the challenge comes to maintaining weight and being at
the right weight on the day. That can be a
whole range of challenges, and people do it in different
ways to suit themselves, suit their bodies the best way
that they're going to perform on the day. You have
to sort of work that out along the way. One

(31:35):
thing might work for somebody. Yeah, one thing might work
for somebody not another. So yeah, it all just depends
on the individual. But you're watching your learn things and
you try if that works, that works, If it doesn't,
try something else.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Did you ever do anything that sort of resulted in
you being not ready to write as a result of
maybe pulling the punt in the punch, pulling the wrong
rain on your own weight loss, So you know, like
if you're not experiencing this sort of stuff and for
some reason you decided, well, I'm just not going to
drink any water for two days. And by the way,
that top of weed stuff does happen in other sports,
but it affects your brain. You thought by process is

(32:10):
your strength, your ability to respond, your time to respond,
which all those things are critical in what you were doing.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Did you ever stuff it up?

Speaker 2 (32:20):
One time that I can recall is I had my
first ride in the Corfield Cup at fifty kilos. I
think I was twenty four at the time, and the
fifty kilos I hadn't ridden for six years in the
lead up to it, but it was one of my
biggest opportunities to ride in a race like that. That

(32:41):
then went on to race in the Melbourne Cup, so
I definitely wasn't saying no, but getting to that was
just one of the toughest things I've had to go through.
I think the last half a kilo on the day
took me seven hours to get off. It just wouldn't
come off my body. Eventually got to the weight and
rode the horse. She ran well, She ran top eight,
which was really good. And then the next week I

(33:03):
was riding. It was for champion trainer Buck Cummings, and
you know, it was an unbelievable opportunity to ride for
such a trainer of his caliber. And I was riding
again for him the next week in the Mini Valley
Cup and it had fifty one kilos and I thought
that should be right. I've just ridden fifty should be
piece of Kate get into fifty one. Anyway, the morning

(33:23):
of the race, I had, I think a kilo to
lose and I thought that was in range I usually
could lose up to a killer and a half if
I had to anyway, my body would not let go.
I could not lose the weight, and I was running
out of time. Ended up having to make my way
to the track and I rang the foreman at the time,
Redge Fleming, and I said, Redge, I'm not going to
be able to make the weight. I don't even think
I can be half over. I think I'm going to

(33:44):
be a killer over. And he said, oh, but it's
not going to be happy. We might have to try
and find a replacement. But if there's not a replacement,
you obviously have to ride it. But anyway got there,
no one could ride the horse, so I wrote it
a kill over. She ran third, she ran really well.
I don't think it effective where she because she was
beaten too far for a second. But I did lose
the ride, I know the next start, but was then

(34:06):
lucky enough to go on and ride the same horse
for bart in the Melbourne Cup from the Corfield Cup
at fifty and a half. But I had ten days
then to try to get back down to that weight.
So that's the whole thing about learning your body. I
didn't realize because I'd done it so tough to get
to the fifty my body didn't want to let go
to get to fifty one the next week. So just
things like that. A Yeah, crazy that it can make

(34:30):
such a difference.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
And does it affect you sleep?

Speaker 2 (34:33):
You're exhausted, has a jockie, You're up at three three
point thirty, you ride, ride all morning, you come home,
you might get an hour's nap. You might not even
get that. You go to the race all day, get
home seven, eight, nine o'clock. So sleeping was the right
of them.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, when you're exhausted, be you've.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Go to bed hungry, you go to hit bed with
this stomach churning most of the time.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Do you feel as though sometimes whilst you choose, you
choose at life everything to sort. Wow, I don't need
permanent damage to myself from living that life during that
sort of critical period of growth, growing, et cetera. Especially
I shouldn't say it, but I'm going to say especially
for a woman, because there's lots of other things going
on for a female at the time.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah, Look, I think definitely in some ways it's you know,
it's tough. You're starving yourself sometimes it's healthier than eating
bad things though. That's true, So it's probably the extreme
way of looking after yourself. But you're healthy. You've got
to be healthy to perform it. You're an athlete, you know,
like you said before, you've got to be thinking split

(35:37):
second decisions, decisions. You've got to be sharp, you've got
to be alert, you've got to be strong. You're writing
a six hundred killer animal, you're in a race. You've
got to be agile. Everything has to work together. So
whilst you know it could be seen as unhealthy in
a way, I think it probably is not the worst
way of living. But as a female, it can affect

(35:57):
your cycle just because you're underweight. I haven't had any kids,
but my sisters have had no trouble having kids and
they live the same sort of similar life. And yeah,
hopefully it's not going to be any effect on me.
But yeah, in a way, I think overeating and eating
bad foods is more unhealthy and going up partying than

(36:19):
probably the life we were living.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
It's a good way to look at it. I mean,
it's not the way I was thinking, but it's a
good way to look at it. As typical from just
this half hour conversation. So far, you look at everything
from the bright side. You're optimistic about everything. I often
want to know when you're sitting there ready to the
race about to start and you're getting ready, are you
excited or nervous or shitting yourself?

Speaker 1 (36:42):
What was going on?

Speaker 2 (36:43):
You know? Oh my god, I could tell you a
whole range of feelings. The amount of thought you can
have interest many times amazing, all of them exactly. So
learning to deal with nerves was one of the biggest
things that I found from a young age because I
wanted it so bad. I tribe my whole life to
be jockey and the best I could be. And finally
you get opportunities and good ones and good races, your

(37:05):
horses favorite. You're like, right, and you know nerves is
going to, you know, get in the way of your thinking.
You haven't got time to be nervous and have that
cloud your judgment. In a race, You've got a second,
split second to make a decision, sometimes quarter of a second.
Should you take that run? Should you wait? So I
knew from a young age had to conquer it because
it was going to kill my game. And I love

(37:27):
the tactical side of writing. It's one of my favorite things. Exactly. Yeah,
So clear thinking is basically one of the most important things.
So behind the barriers, I used to get so nervous.
Just deep breaths, think like, just slow down your breathing, relax.
Whatever happens happens. If it's unlucky, if you don't get

(37:47):
the run you want to have, you'll be okay after
the race. Don't worry about it because worrying is not
going to make you ride the horse, while it's going
to make your stuff it up. So I years and
years of practicing that and learning to just calm your
nerves and not only that, your horse can feel it
if you're nervous through your legs are that's sensitive, they
can they can tell if you're a bit on edge. Wow,

(38:07):
really exactly. Yeah, it's everything, And that's what I was
trying to explain to you about racing. It's so there's
so much involved that makes it so amazing and fun.
So that was one of the biggest things to learn
and to deal with. The other thing is fear, because
it is dangerous. So here in the barriers. I think

(38:28):
I had a bit of PTSD probably through my life
from having so many bad injuries, and even though I
have faith, you can't help but think you know what's
going to go what could go wrong? When exactly when
things have gone wrong, So that that was one thing
that my faith come into it. I'd say a little prayer,
say to mom, oh, wow, I had an older brother

(38:48):
that passed away when he was three days so called Michael,
who I was named after. I was born on his birthday,
so she'll probably so I'd say a little friend of
Mum and to Michael, and to God, you know, keep
me safe out there. Please have to make the right
decisions at the right time, and I instantly feel calm.
So obviously the faith, you know, would help me through

(39:09):
those times. But yeah, like because there was times having falls.
One time in particular, this was I've probably been riding
I think thirteen years, and it was in the barriers,
had had it at this point, a fractured skull, fractured vertebrates,
dessicated ankle.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Not to welst you're on the horse. You'd had already
previously had that had.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
These hors on from falls. So I was, you know,
had had a lot go wrong and in the barriers,
and this I remember it really clearly. Usually I couldn't
remember the fall because it was knocked out through concussion
and everything. But this day I remember, and the horse
was having its first start in the country in Victoria,
standing up really straight, ready to go, and I was

(39:52):
I remember thinking himself, what a lovely little horse, three
year old young horse given pat a thousand meter race,
So you go to jump fast, get your spot anyway,
he for some reason, and I've never seen it before
after but when he went to jump, he didn't move
his front legs. They just stayed straight and he just
absolutely face planted. And usually when they stumble, you can

(40:14):
pull their head up a bit and you've got a
little bit of reaction time. But because I went to
pull his head up, he just he catapuled me face
first into the ground as fast as you could even imagine,
and I woke up. So I don't even know if
I woke up or I'll come to it on the
track and I couldn't move my legs for about thirty seconds,
and all the barrier attendants are there and the ambulance
of there with you straight away, and I was like,

(40:35):
I can't move my legs. I can't move my legs,
and they they're like you' all right, don't panic, don't panic,
or like, don't panic. I can't feel my legs and
I think it was thirty seconds. It felt like five minutes.
But the feeling came back, and I don't know whether
it was shocked the spine or what happened, but I
ended up fracturing five vertebrates and three ribs. So then

(40:56):
when I came back from that fall, it couldn't help
to think that, you know, pickure it up when you
come out of the barriers. You didn't want to affect
your horse's start because you were worried about it falling
or stumbling. But it's very hard, you know, human nature
protect you protect yourself, so it's hard to get over
those those sort of things. And there were times when

(41:17):
I went down the line of talking to a sports
psychologist to help with that, and amazingly, you know, they
had little tricks that would help me get through that,
and obviously also having faith and saying a prayer would help.
And I didn't want to be scared. I didn't want
to be giving up my passion and what I loved
because I was worried that something might happen like that.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Again, is it Is it a matter of in your case,
you are you love and you you love racing, You
love horse racing, you love winning. You just love the
sport generally, it's in your blood that you've been brought
up with it. It is so powerful, they're pretty much nothing

(42:00):
is going to stop me from doing. Whether it's fear,
you know, the danger, the fact that you're female, you
know the odds are against you even getting the getting
the ride in the first place, whether you look after
your weight you've had number of falls. Is that always
overriding everything else? The fact that I love the sport

(42:23):
and that's what I want to do. Yeah, so fun,
so much conviction towards it and it's fun. Is it
just because it's fun or is this is me I
define myself Michelle Paint. I am a jockey and I
win races.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
To be honest, I always thought after writing I could
go on and do something else, so many things. I
don't think that's definitive, but it was something that I
found the passion in and loved, and I think how
lucky I was to live a life of excitement like that,
The feeling that you get when you cross the line,

(42:59):
you know, you've you've really help that horse to achieve
and win the race, and all the owners, the amount
of effort the trainers put in, the stuff at home,
everything that's involved, and to see that, you know, the
happiness on their faces when you come back in. You
can't put a price on that. It's it's unbelievable. And
to have a job where you go to work and

(43:20):
you're excited and you can't you know, it's so fun
like it's you know, not a job. You know, even
though you basically starving yourself and you're exercising off no
energy because you can't eat much. And sometimes you might
be lying on the couch and think I cannot be
bothered to get off and go for a roun. But
you just got to will yourself and get out there
because if you don't make the weight or you're not

(43:41):
fit enough, you don't have a job. So I just
can't self so lucky to have found, you know, a
passion that I could be so excited about.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Happy.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Part of being successful is actual fitness, like I'm I
guess we're talking about aerobic fitness. Grip strength is probably
pretty important. Strengthen your legs to be able to stay
on the horse. How important is that in terms of
like your regime during the week.

Speaker 1 (44:09):
And before the race.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
So I'm assuming you're racing on a Saturday. So I
say the big races coming up in a month, do
you like a fighter? You sort of say, Okay, I've
got a month to get ready for this really big race,
So I'm going to go into a proper environment. Now
I'm going to do this every single day of the week.
You know, if you've got to like a rich wal
you go through for that month, for example, before the

(44:31):
Melbourne cuple before whatever big event you're going to go in.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I think if you want to be a jockey and
achieve at the top level, you've got to dedicate your
life to it. One thing I learned which I took
away from my falls was that you have to have
a balance. From a young age, I was so determined
to do well. I didn't want to take any holidays.
I was just wanting to do you know well, and
not risk having time away that I get forgotten about.

(44:57):
All the hard work you put in would be go
to waste. But having the falls, you had no choice.
You were forced to have that time and I traveled
got to see the world and realized that there was
something in that. Then really thought maybe that happened for
a reason, Maybe it showed me that there's more to
life than riding and racing every day. And from then

(45:17):
I sort of tried to take a holiday every winter
when I could, and basically nearly every winter from that
went somewhere different in the world and explored and traveled
and grew in myself a lot of the time on
my own, because I thought that would be a better
way to do it. You meet people, you're forced to,
so it's all about the balance. But then when you're
in it, you're totally in it. You don't hard. They

(45:40):
can go out dinner. You know. I didn't get to
see my friends from school nearly all of my teenage
years because I was so dedicated to the job. But
you want to do well, you have to do well,
and that's getting up early. You've got to do the
work behind the scenes to get the opportunities to get
the race rides, to get your fitness up. There's only

(46:01):
so much fitness you can get from track work because
it's not like under race pressure. You're not you're obviously
training the horse, you're holding them. Your positions in the
same point. But there's no nerves, the dealer adrenaline. There's
nothing like race fitness. But you can help yourself at
home by doing I found for me the best way.

(46:22):
I'm definitely not a very good athlete, so I to
train harder, lots of high intensity works, sprint work, short
sharp intervals, just any basic strength work that related to riding.
You didn't want to be using false muscles, So you
didn't want to be building muscles that weren't going to
help your riding.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Train specific exactly for what your sport is.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Exactly, and that's like a lot of core strength, obviously,
a lot of arm strength, chin ups, you know, really
have to use all your muscles in your body. Really,
when you're in that riding position and you're holding the horse,
you're using everything without your Knowjeven so with that, you've
got to be very agile because you want to be
a part of the horse. You don't want them to
even know you're you're on them. You don't want to

(47:07):
be like you go for a run and you got
some keys in your pocket, sort of unbalancing your stride
or whatever. You want to be with them as one,
so that you can get the best out of them.
So for me, the best way I found was to
do the track work that you had to do. Sometimes
we had to do too much, like for example, some
days I'd ride twenty horses in the morning and before

(47:28):
you go to the races. That was an extreme Before
you go to the races, Yeah, that was an extreme day,
like one of you know, the toughest usually be five
to ten or fifteen, and then you might have a
little workout at home, have a little sauna or a
spy to lose the weight that you need to lose.
Sometimes you felt better if you had that anyway, even
if you didn't have to lose weight, because you your
body was more prepared. I found it helped me and

(47:52):
then yeah, off to the races. But as I got
older and didn't have to ride as much track work
to get the opportunity to justly more. Post Mulbourne Cup,
I realized it was easier to have a balance of
track work, training yourself and then going to the races.
So one of the toughest things about being female writers

(48:13):
you had to really work hard behind the scenes. That's
why I was riding twenty horses the morning to get
the opportunities, But your bug advice. Time you get to
the races, you know there's only so much exercise and
work your body and your muscles can do, especially on
very limited food. So all those things you just have
to work out and learn along the way, and you

(48:34):
know you have to really want it because you can't
maintain that kind of lifestyle otherwise.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
If you just talk quickly about the Melbourne Cup win
Princi Penzance, do you remember the first time you saw
met the principendance met the horse and did you feel
an immediate empathy towards that animal.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
I'm not even joking. The first time I saw him
was it a real little country t called Collac. We
were doing trials. I was coming back from another injury
and I said to his trainer, Darren was such, that's
a nice horse. So he was just on the other
side of the mountain yard and he said, yeah, he's
really nice. Threat.

Speaker 1 (49:12):
It's a nice horse. Mean, from your point of view.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
An athlete, you look at it, you can see it
in three seconds. Do that horse move as well? Like
everything works together. Got a nice big deep girth, which
means I've got big lungs, big heart, can fit in there.
Everything's just efficient and you could just tell the way
he walked, and he was bold. He was really bold
and wanted to get on means, wanted to get on

(49:36):
with the job. Like he was bought by a guy
called John Foot, who bought him because he said he
walked through He'd run through a brick wall. He was
that bold kind of horse. He said, yeah, No, he's
a really nice horse. You can see how it goes.
So I was trialing him this day. He hadn't had
a race at this point, and we were later in
the day and a bit unusual, but the track got

(49:57):
a bit slippery as the day went on, and we
were out wider so usually on the course as a canber,
but because we were out so wide, the campra was
running down the other way. As we were around in
the corner with the greasy ground, he slipped and lost
his balance and I swear I felt my knee and
he touched the ground because he went down that far.
But he picked himself back up and he was just
so athletic and I hadn't come off him, and got

(50:20):
himself back into stride in a few strides, picked up
sprinted and galltz the line finished second and I was like,
oh my god, what is this horse, because they just
don't do that, and he said, yeah, he's a nice horse.
So he kept try to keep with him because I
thought he was pretty special. You know, you don't come
across that very often in your career, and I've said

(50:41):
many times like through my riding career, road seven and
a half thousand races and probably over thirty thousand horses
even more in track work and probably five in the
lifetime gave you that X factor feel. And he did
that right from the start his very first trial, that
a road. So he was just a luckable horse, an
unbelievable athlete, had a will to win, to want to

(51:04):
do it, sometimes too much, he wanted to overdo it.
So I think we were a good balance being a
sort of soft touch with him and kind and you're
always talking to him and patting him and stuff like that.
So yeah, it was just an unbelievable journey. And to
think I come across a horse like that and later
in my career.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
So when you win something as famous in Australia as
the Melbourne Cup and probably believing globally in the horse
racing world, what's the deal, like when you is the race,
when it's over and you know you can see you won.
Is it a bit of an anti climax because most
of the thrillers during the race, or do you have

(51:42):
or is it as big a thrill when they sort
of announced it you're the winner and you know you won.
But where's the thrill lie in the race itself and
winning it actually taking him through to win. Or is
it when it's all over and it's relief. Where's the
biggest thrill?

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Honestly, I see right now today and can tell it
gives me like butterflies in my stomach to think that
I still have been lucky enough to win a great race.
It was a dream of mine from a five year old,
so to think twenty five years later I was able
to cross that line in front on him, it blows
me away. So honestly, I can't say the feelings died down.

(52:22):
It was an absolute well wind from the moment I
got off, And it's amazing to think that one race
can change your life like it has. Obviously film being made,
second book that I've written, been part of writing with
the writer, and yeah, just incredible. Like honestly, I can't

(52:43):
believe it.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Did it change a world much?

Speaker 3 (52:46):
I mean apart from all the opportunities obviously obviously get
apart from the factor you you now stand for something
in relation to horse racing, with women involved in racing,
particularly as jockeys.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
But how did it defect your life? Was it? Apart
from the obvious positives?

Speaker 3 (53:04):
And many negatives come with that sort of stuff, like
being in the limelight, how do you feel about that.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
I've sort of been prepared for the limelight through my career,
just with earlier successes, so I was pretty okay with that.
As in media, Yeah, with media, sort of being stopped
on the street become something I struggled with because I'm
a pretty private person. You know, as a jockey, you're
self employed, you really focused, busy at your job, keeps

(53:30):
yourself pretty quiet because usually you're hungry, so you don't
have much conversation. It's taken away your personality. So I
found it really tough, challenging. But the way it looks
at it is you've got to take the good with
it bad. People were lovely everywhere when you know, congratulations
are so exciting, so inspired by When I couldn't believe

(53:52):
it you know, the amount of good feeling that I
got from it and people's reactions. So yeah, it was tough,
but like you said, like I said, sorry, people were
amazing and just blew me away. But I got tired also,
so I just had to go home and rest a
lot of the time because it was just a bit

(54:13):
overwhelming to take on.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
You sort of like have to perform a little bit
when you do something really good and everybody sort of
wants to acknowledge it and hold up in a bit
of a pedestal.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
That was one thing. Sorry. The people used to be
so excited when they met me, and I feel like
I let them down because I was like, thanks very much,
but I couldn't be impressive right then and there. So
I found it quite tough at the time that I
was letting them down. They're like, oh my god, but
what you did was so excited and again I'd say
thank you very much, and they'd say it again sometimes
and I'm like, I can't say anything more than thanks

(54:45):
very much. Like I felt the pressure to live up
to their excitement that that was really draining and tough.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Is that because you're sort of a basically a very
generous person I'm not sure do you feel do you
think generosity is an important thing?

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Obviously my life's been made great from the generosity of
my older brothers and sisters and people through my life.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
Yeah, so you know, like when and then you can
only show gratitude once or twice, because otherwise, if someone's
saying to you, how well done you've done, and you
feel like you want to show them gratitude. But after
your show once, if you're probably trying to show it
a second time, you started to feel like you're faking it.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Well you I don't know what else they wanted me
to do.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
You can't say too many times? If can we just
talk about your book?

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Obviously there's the Netflix show which I've watched and it's
a great show to watch, worth watching. But the book
right on, what made you feel as though that you
should publish a new book?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I think, like you said, I have a very positive,
optimistic attitude and if how I got through some of
my falls and tragedies could help other people, even if
it's just one person, it was well worth the effort
of writing the book for that's the main reason. So,
you know, lots of people face challenges. Life's tough, and

(56:10):
I've had many of them and talking about that, Yeah,
like I said, if the way I coped and overcome
things in a positive way could help others, And that's
the main reason.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Do you feel as though, you know sometimes when when
I grow up a Catholic too, My min's a rash
Catholic And there is this sort of concept in the
Catholic family, I don't in the churches, in the family,
within your own family, that you should pay forward the
luck that you've received or the great things that you've

(56:44):
had the opportunity to experience, and you pay forward, And
that's sort of like a bit of a gratitude thing.
One way showing your gratitude is share it, share others
what you've learned. And it's sort of like a nearly
like an ethic, a moral obligation from growing up in
a Catholic family. Do you feel that too, like a

(57:06):
little bit of an obligation to share with people something
that might help them improve their lives if they're not
as lucky as you.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, for sure, why wouldn't you if you can share
something that will help others make their life easier.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
Some people don't say that though, surely that a lot
of people don't think that way. Do you think it's
got some the way you were brought up and what
you experience and maybe perhaps part of your faith.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Definitely, Also like the luck I had in my life,
and even though you know, I was unlucky to have falls,
I was so lucky to recover from them and get
back to doing what I loved. So, you know, probably
it is a bit of gratitude for that luck and
luck I had. On the day of the Melbourne Cup,

(57:50):
in a way, I felt an obligation for being so
lucky to then you do good with it. If I
can inspire somebody to to look at their job in
a different way, to strive to be the best, even
if they feel like you know, they for some reason
shouldn't or they can't. You know, why wouldn't you if

(58:13):
you if you can believe in yourself. Yeah, just so
many different reasons. And like I said, with my older
brothers and sisters who helped me and taught me, I
don't have any little brothers and sisters to help, but
anybody else, any young apprentices coming through, you know, absolute
privilege and pleasure to do that.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
Is this Michelle being Thereasa like you know, like paying
forward the way your older sister showed you and helped
you out to get to where you've got to and
as an inspiration I'm talking about motivation. Yeah, definitely, because
you don't have any younger brothers and sisters, So maybe
it's an opportunity just sort of because we all repeat
those good things and unfortunately repeat those bad things that

(58:57):
happened in our lives.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Unfortunately we just do. Unfortunately we just do.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
And I'm trust I'm just trying to because you know,
I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you
would do this book. Some people do these things out
of guilt. Some people do these things to make money.
Some people do these things to stay relevant. You know
that they might have done something in their past, We've
made them very famous, and they try to do something
that's relevant. My gut feelings, that's not not your case.

(59:24):
But also, you know what I did sort of land
on was maybe that's that that upbringing obligation.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
We have to.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
Share with others what has helped us. And certainly, I
mean I've experienced the same thing. So I'm trying to
work and work out if that's that's your that's your
mantra right now, right now, to.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Help others.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
I think definitely, I think why are we here if
we're not here to help others and to do good
in life? So if I can use my platform in
any way to do good and to help others, you know,
why wouldn't I?

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
And are there any particular parts of the book? I
mean we, I mean I read the sort of praising
of it. You know, we're talking about overcoming and for one,
facing tragedy, diversity, and also and triumph triumph something you've got.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
To face into too.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Well, it's not always perfect, but probably I would have
added to that overcoming tragedy, diversity, and overcoming triumph too,
because there's something you need to overcome. It doesn't define
you because it's only there for a second.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
It happens on.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
A particular time, on a particular day, on a particular race.
That's your big triumph, your biggest triumph, but it's also fleeting.
It doesn't last the next day, race over the next year,
someone else is going to win it. So overcoming those
things is really important. And in writing this and putting
this book together, is there a sort of a particular

(01:00:59):
part of a chapter, perhaps a bit a particular part
of the book that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Means more to you than any other part of the book.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
To be honest, I was really proud of it in
the end. In the lead up it was something that
I wasn't really looking forward to, to be honest. I
love living on my farm in peace.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
That's Notingham Farm, Nottingham Farm, yep.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
But like I said, if it could do good, it
was worth the effort to put in and to go
back and to remember something's very traumatic to go back
over my falls. Obviously my sister passed away recently. That's
in there. And but one of the one of the chapters,
which is the first one which I really love, is

(01:01:46):
talking through the Melbourne Cup every thought the strategy, because
as I spoke about earlier, I love the tactical side
of racing, so many intricate details that can win and
lose a race, especially race like the Melbourne Cup. So
for me personally reading books sports people's books, was you
know their feeling you you know, read an AFL player's
book running out onto the field of a Grand final.

(01:02:08):
You know the feeling of the grass under their feet,
you know, the crowds growing, just getting the inside insights
into their mind. So I wanted to give that to
the readers, and I really pushed to have it as
the first.

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Chapter because everything you experienced.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Yeah, everything that's going through your mind, the feeling from
what I spoke to you about, you know, your muscles
being relaxed on Prince ap Penzance because he was a
fiery horse anyway. Didn't need to be feeling me nervous
on you know, the biggest day of our lives. So
all of those things like from the mounting yard to
the barriers to through the race tactically, you know, what
can happen, what can unfold, like unbring your race, and

(01:02:45):
those split second decisions that you've got to make. I
really did my best to give the reader an in
depth insight into that. So I'm really proud and I
hope that readers will love that and take a lot
away from it, especially young writers that are learning to
deal with nerves and learning to you know, think about
how a race is going to unfold. Sometimes really helped

(01:03:08):
me to just visualize it. Lie down before you know,
go to sleep, shut your eyes, visualize it in your brain,
jumping from the barriers where you want to where you
want to land, how you want the race to unfold,
and that for me was a really good way of
planning and preparing. So visualization exactly so that can help
you know, another writer or even a sports person you

(01:03:30):
know might have a swimmer that will be visualizing their
stroke in a swimming race or a runa anything. So yeah,
I was I was really keen to put that in
the book, and I think we did a good job
of it so bestly could come up with, so hopefully
the other readers will really take something away from that.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
And I've only got a sort of a pre copy
of it, and what we did was we running through
ai by the way, just because I.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Didn't get a time to read in it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
But I have got the summaries of every chapter and
just on that particular chapter that's rising to the occasion
you really you relive the twenty fifteen Melbourne Cup win.
I'm Prince Depanzence And one of the thoughts that I
had when I was reading the summaries was I wonder
whether Michelle her senses are so alert, so alert at

(01:04:14):
the time. And I'm talking about all senses, probably even
including the sixth sense, but all sense does all of
a sudden your sense of smell become really strong, and
you can smell the horse, you can smell the grass,
you can smell the environment, you can feel things with
your fingers. Is that an experience? Is that something that

(01:04:34):
would happen to you when you're perhaps when you're walking
to from getting your horse and walking out before you
mount the horse. I mean, do your senses become extremely alert?

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
I think you've become so focused in the zone. All
that goes you can just focus on what you need
to focus on senses through your hands, through your feet,
and on the horse.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
But that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:05:00):
You are actually able to then put aside all that
and actually sort of concentrate those senses that you need,
that you know you need. So let's say we got six,
you might be able to concentrate those senses into two
or three that are just needed for that moment for
the next few.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
Minutes, exactly like the crowd. You can't even hear the crowd.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
The crowd, well I could, Well, that's that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
Yeah, A lot of writers will say they hear the
aurora of the crowd and jumping barriers, But to me,
the race is quiet. I could take through every single
step of that race but I think there's so much
happening in such a short period of time that you
have to be able to just zone in on what
you need to.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
And not waste time on other things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
Exactly, you don't have time. You might think of a
hundred things and you're like, sometimes I've even thought to
myself in a race, how do you even think of
so many things at one at one time in such
a crazy environment of a race. But I think to
do well, you have to be able to do that
and to zone.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
In on it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Did at any stage in the race during that race,
did you get a surprise of anything you did or
anything that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
The horse did well?

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Firstly, he walked down the barriers. We missed a start
by three lengths and I was, oh God, can we
stop and do that again? But yeah, that's it. It's
gone game on. One thing that really surprised me and
I didn't prepare for, but I was prepared to be
prepared for anything, and that was at around the fourteen

(01:06:33):
hundred twelve hundred meter mark. Our plan was to stay
on the back of the horse I was following, which
was Max s Darnamite who finished second in the end,
but a run presented three off the fence behind the
second favorite trip to Paris, and at that point I
wasn't prepared to be making a move so far from home.
We still had the big sweeping band of Flemington. But

(01:06:54):
after watching so many replays of the Malbourne Cup, you
had to be starting to get into the race. The
speed had been really slow. He was traveling strong. In
my mind, that is the that's the past we were so.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
You knew that the pace wasn't quick.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
Pace was very slow.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Yeah, how do you know that? Watch?

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
No, you just learned to judge. So when we got
to the winning post the first time, after say a
thousand meters, it was steady already you could feel that.
Then they stayed it up again and I just remember
thinking down the backstreet cheezs were going slow.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
That's good because you know he's got more in his tank.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
True, but so does everybody else. Yeah, so you need
to be getting into a position because the horses up
front will sprint because they've had it easy. So we're
back in the field. You need to be creeping. So
I saw that opportunity, which surprised me because I wasn't
prepared to do that. But in the in the pre
race preparation. I knew every horse, every runner, and like

(01:07:51):
I said, you only have a split second to make
these decisions. And I spotted it behind that run behind
trip to Paris and thought, I'm going to have to
do that. And I had sort of pretty strict instructions
to stay on the back of max Elamite, and I
thought that was a good plan. I thought, I'm not
going to go with going to change plan here and
go to plan B, and that would just work it out.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
Is that the thought process that you're going you're actually
going through that analysis. Whilst you're there holding the horse,
everyone else is sort of are they yelling and screaming
all the other jockeys? Can you hear people talking to
you and say get out of the way.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
Or yeah, yeah, you're at that point. Look down the
back straight. Usually everyone's in there. Spot's quite silent. No
one's screaming unless you're trying to bump out or whatever.
Everyone's trying to get the horse to relax, to breathe,
you know, conserving all energy, so it's very quiet. You'd
be surprised to hear the thunder of the hoofs And yeah,

(01:08:48):
at that point, I thought well, I'm going to take
you know, make this decision and you have to go
with it. You can't you can't tacond guess yourself. Everything
has to be done positively. And as we were rounding
the corner and coming past the seven hundred, I was
absolutely bolting and I thought the sash, she's we're a
chance here, and don't get it too excited. Part of

(01:09:09):
my preparation was, you know, if you're in that position,
don't get carried away by the occasion and push the
button too early. You know, take off. A home race
can be won or lost in a second, and you
start making contact with other runners, bumping into them, you're
taking away your energy of a horse. So it was basically
about composure and.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
Yeah, it's a good word, composure.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Waiting until the time was right, and yeah, it was
just all I think the preparation in the pre race
that really helped on the day.

Speaker 3 (01:09:43):
I'm getting goosebumps thinking about the whole process. I mean,
like some people have an opportunity run their business, you know,
over a year, and they can make all those decisions
over a year. Your business is one race, and you've
got to make all those decisions and how many minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
We're talking about now from beginning to end three minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
So you're making all these tactical decisions, responding to opportunities,
responding to threats, responding to risks, responding to the animal,
your infantry, which is the animal you're writing. Then also
your competition that's outside of you, it's your brain must
be going at a million miles an hour. And the

(01:10:23):
word you use, composure is really important word. And to
be frank with you, you.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
Know, part of the.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
Importance of a book like this is teaching or sharing
people how to maintain their composure under pressure. This is
the most extreme version of pressure like you can possibly get.

Speaker 1 (01:10:41):
I mean, forget. We talked earlier about all the challenges
you got got over and above.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
Which is great, But this is an example in a
businessman should be reading this thing. This is an example
of a person exercising composure and judgment under extreme circumstance.
This is really extreme circumstances and it's a bit of
like sort of it's nearly like climbing a mountain without
any harnesses or something like that. And it was sort

(01:11:07):
of to me in my mind, I'm aligning it to that,
which is something I would never attempt and I've never
really thought about a jockey's job in the way you've
just described it in terms of that your mindset, your
mindset at the beginning of the race, making sure that
you don't you know, not everything's beating it once and
you just considering those things that you need to have

(01:11:29):
for the race, the build up to the race, of
training programs once you're in the race, of tactics and
not getting ahead of yourself, remembering what the I'm going
to say, the coach, but the trainers told you to do,
and probably the owners and based on But then you've
got any expos you intuition because if you don't take
that jump when you and you say, well, no, you

(01:11:50):
told me, yeah, well.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
Did you tell you the truth? There were so many
times previously in races where Darren had told me to
do stuff and he said, what did you do that
for us? You told me to do that because we
don't listen to me you're out there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:01):
That's my point.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Yes, I learned. And that's the funny thing about so
many years and the Malvin Cup come at the right
time because at the time I thought, I'm not listening
to you. This time, Darren, following my judgment, and you
know you're out there doing the job. You've got to
go to back yourself. If you've done the work and
you've done the preparation, that's up to you and you've
got to have confidence in yourself to do that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:22):
Good only that you sharing all those things for people
who pick up the book, and by the ways, an audiobook,
because you've just had a text one.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
It is going to be in an audio audible. We've
got Rachel Griffiths has put a hand up to read it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Which is why do it? I did one. I said
it is the greatest pain in the neck of all
times I had to do. I did a period about it.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
Takes a long time. It's really difficult to do because
you're in a little booth. She's going to do it
for it, she is. That's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
I unbelieve. I'm so grateful to her.

Speaker 3 (01:12:51):
Yeah, that's great because because a lot of people like
to listen to these things these days as opposed to
sort of sit down and read stuff and can I
just go back to Nottingham Farm.

Speaker 1 (01:13:01):
So how's life as a trainer?

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
Amazing? It's really hard when you finish the job, that
you're passionate about, like racing obviously explained it to you
how fun it is and exciting and exhilarating. So it's
tough when you stop, you know, life becomes a bit
boring in a way because you've taken away that spark.
But still being able to work with these incredible animals

(01:13:26):
that we work with, like beasts that they are. That
you get their trust and you see their kind eyes
when you walk out to see them in the paddic and.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
You see kindness in their eyes unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
Yeah, they just soften, you know when you come up
to give them a pat and just to have that
every day in your life is just an absolute blessing.
So training is the next best thing, I guess from
riding in a race. You still get that same excitement
when you see your horse go out basically for battle
for you, and all that work that you've done behind

(01:13:56):
the scenes in preparing them for that, strengthening them physically, mentally,
having them prepared to really want to hit the line
for you as best they can. So much is involved
with that. It's not just a matter of getting a
horse fit and sending them to the races. You've got
to have them mentally coping and you never hurt them
along the way because I remember if they race when
they're not fit enough, and you know that they were

(01:14:17):
sort of asked to extend when they didn't have enough
enough fitness under their belt.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
So are they sensitive?

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
So sensitive?

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
I mean not, I guess emotionally as a word, but
they are. Are they?

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
Absolutely? Yeah? If you run a horse unfit, you know,
it's the best way to teach them not to try,
because I'll be like stuff this, you know that hurt
less practical Yeah, exactly, so like riding, and it's still
racing so much involved in so many intricate details that
make you successful. So it just makes it fun and
challenging and really rewarding when it all comes together.

Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
And if you as a trainer, do you have a
soft spot then for a young short pain who might
be said about there somewhere looking for a ride and
doesn't get it. I mean, how do you play that part?

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
I mean, do you probably a.

Speaker 2 (01:15:05):
Bit tough on young riders coming through to you know,
go to work hard. It's not just you see all
the fun and the glitz and glory that I want
to do that. Of course, if somebody really wants to
do it and do well, I'll give them every bit
of advice and sit them down and talk them through
everything that I've learned that could help them. But I

(01:15:26):
also don't want to waste my time if somebody is
just all bit airy fairy and thinks it's just, you know,
a fun thing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:33):
And well that you owe them one because you know,
because some people would think that, they would say, well,
she had their glory run and she won the milk up,
and Michelle's a female and she should be looking after
me because I'm a female.

Speaker 1 (01:15:46):
It's not about that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
Well, look, like I said, I'm happy to help anybody,
but busy unless you know busy. But if it's somebody
really wants to try hard to do well, give them
all the time in the world, because to pass on
the knowledge that I've learned over the years, and passing
what I was taught is just one of the greatest
gifts you can you can have and give people.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
Does your dad come out to Nodding Nottingham Farm?

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Yep. Dad lives down the road so you're not far
from each other. No, No, that's very great.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
So Stevie still comes up.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
Yep. Stevie comes up, rides bike up there and he's
got a little cabin on the farm and we own
the farm together. So cool. It's it's honestly beautiful to
have had the high of winning the Melbourne Cup and
the fun and excitement that I get to do, but
then go back to the peacefulness of the farm, with
the serenity and the quietness. We have no street lights.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
It's it's that's the best.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
So quiet. It's honestly living my best life.

Speaker 3 (01:16:42):
Well, I guess from from the summaries that I've got
too though, it's not just about winning the race on
the particular day and how wonderful that was, et cetera.
Because life's not just all shiny. Does the book lean
into some of the more raw things that have happened
to you in your in your career, and androbably even
brought more broadly.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
Just your life.

Speaker 2 (01:17:02):
Yeah, definitely does. We didn't want to just focus on
all the positive things, because life's tough and people go
through tough times, and that's why we I really wrote
the book not just for the insights in the Melbourne Cup.
That's just the first part of it. The rest of
the book is a lot around the struggles and the
challenges that I faced. One was the next year I

(01:17:23):
had a really bad fall. At the time, I was
struggling to deal with the Malbourne Cup in the way
that it was just exhausting me. And it was such
a life changing race that I didn't know how I
was going to keep up with everything, all the opportunities,
and you know, not make the most of them, because
I thought, why wouldn't you, But you know, it was hard.

(01:17:43):
So at the time I was wondering how I was
going to keep going. And I was heading towards a
huge troop in Europe where I was going to write
in Sweden and England and many opportunities are so excited
about but exhausted thinking about. And I'd written Prince of
Penzance in Adelaide and had flown to Mildreurer on the

(01:18:04):
Sunday to ride and unfortunately had an awful, horrible fall
where I fell underneath my own horse and it stood
on my stomach. Well, and this is a yeah, flat
gallop and at the time when I felt like when
I come to it and woke up on the track,
I remember being called curled up in a ball and said,

(01:18:26):
something's really bad and bleeding inside, and we talk about
that and when you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Say you're bleeding inside, what does that mean.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
I didn't know. I just could feel something bad had happened.
And as it turned out, I was flown to the
Alfred Hospital later that night and operated on it twoesday.
The next morning, I'd severed three quarters of my pangreas
off and there was hanging by a thread and they
had to remove it and sewed it to my stomach.
So having that fall in a way saved me because

(01:18:56):
I totally got peace for my recovery after nearly killing me.
At the same time, the recovery of that was tough,
unbelievably tough. I prayed to God every day to get
through the pain. Each night. I didn't know how I
was going to survive it, and you know, people go
through many things that are hard, and I wanted to

(01:19:16):
talk about that and how I dealt with it, and
some of that was just taking my little trolley of
you know, s bag of saline and tubes that were
coming out of me and going for a walk around
the ward. I just walk laps and laps to pass
the time. When I was able to, you know, get
up and out of bed and you know, just little
tricks that might help others to get through really tough

(01:19:38):
times that they get through. So talk about that in
sort of pretty good detail. Talk about stalkers that I
faced after.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
The race, as in people message you, you and Neil
following you around the joint.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
Yeah, unbelievable. Like I never imagined how bad it could be.
People jumping my gate at the farm coming in. One
guy just wandering around. I could see him on the
cameras in the middle of a Sunday. Another guy jumped
the gate on a Sunday morning through COVID. We're in
strict lockdown. Come to come around the back. It was

(01:20:15):
just me and Stevie there, and you know, it was
started chatting. I was like, sorry, mate, you're not supposed
to be here and it's private property. And he started
to sort of abuse me for being rude to him
even though he was on my property, and later resulted
in him messaging me and abusing me and passed out

(01:20:37):
down on my on my dad's front lawn and had
to be pulled in by the police. Yeah, drunk. So
another guy went to jail. Another guy got arrested for harassment.
So it was many times that I just couldn't even believe,
so obviously talk about that and and overcoming that, especially
you know, living living out on a farm. And one

(01:21:02):
of the toughest chapters I think to write was a
chapter on my sister who passed away this year through suicide,
and the mental challenges and mental health challenges she faced,
and how we tried to get through it as a family,
and what maybe we could have done differently. Which sister
was that my older sister Bernadette, who used to look

(01:21:23):
after me when I was a baby, used to feed me.
She was eleven years old when my mom passed away
and took on the role of getting up in the
middle of the night and looking after me and giving
me a bottle. You know, whether maybe she should have
had counseling back then, and we didn't know about it,
just different things we thought we could have done through
life that maybe could have steered her path in a

(01:21:44):
different direction.

Speaker 3 (01:21:45):
We carried that drawing a whole life exactly because at eleven,
you know what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
So whilst it was really traumatic to write, it was
beautiful to talk about her because she was a beautiful
person before mental health took over. So that that's the
chapter I really wanted to write. And I spoke to
the family, you know, do you think I should You know,
is it okay? Is it respectful to her? Is it
good because it will help other people? And they all
agreed that if our what we face could could help others,

(01:22:14):
then they were happy for me to write about it.
And another one is talking about the mental health I've faced.
Probably mental health is not the word I should use,
but the concussions that I've had, and the worry about
CTA CTE and what the unknownness of it and things
I was feeling through that tough time of losing her

(01:22:34):
and trying to figure out what was the best path
to take. And one thing that I learned was knowledge,
and you know, going and getting an MRI, seeing what
they could find on there, investigating it further, doing further
neurosyte tests. And I think your knowledge is power and
it's helped me a lot to know when I need

(01:22:55):
to rest and take it easy instead of pushing yourself
through brands. Obviously a fragile thing and it has to
be exercised, but it also has to be rested at
the same time. So I try to talk as openly
as account about that because you know, you know things
that can happen with people with this CTE and.

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
We're just concussions and dementia.

Speaker 2 (01:23:16):
Exactly and the scariness of it, and I knew what
I was feeling, so I was very keen to write
about that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
So just on just on that one is it's great
that you talk about it because it's rare women talk
about it because it's usually footballers, guy footballers and stuff
like that, but there are plenty of female soccer players
and netball players get it too.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Soccer girls get.

Speaker 3 (01:23:38):
It from soccer, from hitting the ball, AFL girls get it,
Rugby league girls get it, et cetera. Boxes get it,
female boxes get it. It's good to hear someone like
you talk about it because it's more of a worry
than most people give it credit for. And I think
what you're saying is that you said knowledge is power.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
It's I think.

Speaker 3 (01:24:00):
Which you're sort of saying is don't just sort of
locked up in the closet and forget about it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
Do something about it. Perhaps gett an Ameria see if
there's a you know, if the brain's.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
Looking looks normal, or do the neurosie test with a
neurologist or a psychologist to see how you respond. Those
sort of things empower you a bit, exactly. At least
you can get a sense of how you feel about stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
And maybe I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:24:25):
I love the fact that you did that because I'm like,
I'm really intensely interested in taking control of our lives.
Whether it's feeling like a victim, which you've never have,
but you could have taken, a feeling as though you
might be vulnerable to brain injury, which you know you

(01:24:50):
could be, but you didn't. You don't feel victims that
you take try to take control over. They're important chapters,
that sort of sentiment. Whilst the winning part of really
exciting and fun to listen.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
To or read that sort of stuff is it can
be life changing for.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Some people exactly. And I think you know, you got
to live, you got to learn by what you live
as well. And I haven't spoken about her at this point,
but my oldest sister, Bridget, she passed away when she
was thirty seven. She had a brain injury and complications
of that led to her passing away seven months later

(01:25:29):
I think it was. And after my sister Bernie passed
away this year Bernie, Sorry, Pannadette. She I was obviously
very upset and sad. I didn't know if I was depressed.
I was trying to figure out all the feelings. And
I remember lying in bed one day thinking, why wouldn't

(01:25:49):
you go and investigate this like you're worried about it.
I had been worried about it for a long time,
because you know, you watch tragedies that happened through CT
and if you get a chance to read the book,
I don't know how my brain is so good considering
the amount of falls I've had and traumas to my head.
I just thought, you're so crazy and stupid not to

(01:26:09):
go and get it checked out when you're worried about it.
So the next day got up booked an appointment, was
able to get in straight away for an MRI, which
was just so nice to get in and not have
to worry about it another day, and just to start
the process of learning more about it. And it took
a while. It wasn't an overnight fix where I just
felt instantly better. Worked with the doctors from Racing Victoria,

(01:26:33):
who obviously specialized in a very wide range of falls
from horse racing, and yeah, we started a plan and
it's yeah, like I said before, knowledge has just helped
me feel so much more empowered and feel good about it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
I think that's a really good point, the plan. You've
got to have a plan. It might be perfect, you
might change it, you might revise it, update it. But
if you have a plan, you feel better, exactly for
some reason, you just feel better. It may help you
be better, but you actually feel better, and that's part
of it feeling better exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:27:05):
You don't want to feel guilty if you know that
you should be having arrest, but if I personally feel
lazy if I'm not doing enough work, or you don't
push through to get stuff done. But it's about listening
to yourself, and it's stupid not not to listen to
to what's working and what's not working. So that's something

(01:27:27):
that I've really learned as well.

Speaker 3 (01:27:28):
I feel like this straight Talk episod has become a
project one hundred episode, my other, my other project, my other,
myther podcast. I mean here we are talking about health
and not to mental health and to her brain health,
and like that's pretty important. The brain is like runs
the whole show. You can't replace a brain. You can
replace it hard. You can get transplants all that sort

(01:27:50):
of stuff, but the brain part is really important. And
you know, like someone like you who's you know, I
reckon if I fell off, also probably.

Speaker 1 (01:27:57):
Would never want to get up.

Speaker 3 (01:27:59):
Like the amount of resilience that you show and also
being able to just take if you're going to do
something about it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
That's pretty tough.

Speaker 3 (01:28:09):
You're old man, he's a mister Payne. He's a tough dude.
And your mom, who obviously I didn't see her in
the show because she wasn't a low but she must
have been pretty tough too, both of them.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
Yeah, I think so remarkable. Really obviously, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:28:27):
What would you say to your mom now? Now?

Speaker 3 (01:28:31):
What would you want to say to your mom she
was sitting here obviously, let's say she was interviewing you
now and talking to you about two sisters and your
life and all the stuff you had to deal with
and all the stuff I've been dealt out to you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
What would you say to your mom?

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
You're going to make me a bit sad if I
think it about too much sad. That's a good thing.
I just hope she's proud of us. And what was
Alma Stevie.

Speaker 1 (01:28:58):
And your dad.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
Well, I think I see doubt every day.

Speaker 1 (01:29:03):
But do you say things to him? Do you tell
him what you think?

Speaker 2 (01:29:07):
Yeah? Pretty straight up with him.

Speaker 1 (01:29:08):
Don't worry about that because I one of the things.

Speaker 3 (01:29:11):
I lost my foont last year, you know, and I
regret not telling him some things.

Speaker 2 (01:29:15):
Yeah. Well, to be honest, I live down the road,
two kilometers down the road from him, and sometimes I'm
at home, I'm tired, it's not time, I think the south.
Don't be lazy, go down and see him, because I
definitely would hate to live with regret. And it's interesting
you say that about you know what I would feel
that I haven't said to him. But yeah, I don't

(01:29:39):
think too much. I think we're pretty open with each other.
He's pretty straight shooter. Don't worry about that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:44):
I saw that on the show. I was wondering if
that was a faithful way of depicting him.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Kind version, like obviously he's a great man, really obviously
kind And I kin't of even put into words what
I feel about how how good he is. And even
at eighty nine years old, he moves with the times,
and he goes home and he thinks about things. But Yeah,
he is a straight shooter and he definitely doesn't bounce

(01:30:12):
around your feelings, that's for sure, but in a good way.
I think he just tells you how it is and
you just have to suck it up and take it
on and find a positive from it, you know, get better.

Speaker 3 (01:30:24):
Maybe you don't need to tell him that. Maybe he
just needs to look at the daughter he's race and
that tells him everything.

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
Well, he gets a reminder sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:30:33):
Well, Jay, what I did.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
I started up a whiskey company for my dad. I
don't know if that was telling him the right think
or not. I built a whiskey business off the back
of him because I know he like whiskey.

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
Michell payin things for much.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Thank you.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#214 Michelle Payne: The Melbourne Cup winner on making history, tragedy & the dark side of fame

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

#214 Michelle Payne: The Melbourne Cup winner on making history, tragedy & the dark side of fame

Stuff You Should Know