April 7, 2025 • 52 mins
Connection forms the foundation of mental health and happiness, with disconnection from ourselves, others, the world, and something greater underlying virtually every psychological struggle we face.
• Four types of connection: with self (authenticity), others (relationships), the world (nature/art), and something greater (awe/spirituality)
• Modern distractions like social media, FOMO, and constant digital interruptions actively prevent meaningful connection
• Self-connection provides the foundation for all other connections - if disconnected from ourselves, we can't truly connect elsewhere
• Personal "connection formulas" vary widely - activities that energize one person may drain another
• Novel shared experiences allow families and couples to see each other through fresh eyes and strengthen bonds
• Friendships serve vital roles that romantic relationships cannot replace - no single relationship can meet all our connection needs
• Workplace connection can be found by developing valued skills and experiencing flow states even in less-than-ideal jobs
• Loneliness impacts physical health more than smoking, highlighting connection as a fundamental human need
The book "Super Psyched: Unleash the Power of the Four Types of Connection and Live the Life You Love" is available now on Amazon and Barnes & Noble, and you can learn more at DrAdamDorsay.com.
Adam's Resources
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
On today's episode, dr Liz and I are thrilled to be
joined by Dr Adam Dorsey, authorof the fascinating new book
Super Psyched.
Today, we're diving deep intothe science of human connection,
as Adam shares hisgroundbreaking framework of four
distinct types of connectionthat shape our relationships.
We also explore what gets inthe way of meaningful
(00:24):
connections in our modern world,and Dr Dorsey reveals his
powerful connection formula thatcan transform how we build and
maintain relationships.
Whether you're looking tostrengthen your personal
relationships or betterunderstand the bonds you share
with others, you won't want tomiss this insightful
conversation.
Dr Adam Dorsey is a licensedpsychologist and executive coach
(00:45):
in Silicon Valley, where heworks with high achieving adults
, including professionals,executives, entrepreneurs and
professional athletes.
Adam is also the host of theSuper Psyched podcast and has
given TEDx talks.
His new bestselling book, superPsyched Unleash the Power of
the Four Types of Connection andLive the Life you Love, is now
(01:07):
available on Amazon and BarnesNoble.
He regularly consults andspeaks to numerous audiences,
including keynotes and trainingsto organizations including
Microsoft, linkedin and theCalifornia Psychological
Association.
He is happily married, thefather of young boys, and he has
a hypoallergenic 33-poundAustralian Labradoodle therapy
(01:28):
dog named Raffy, who lives athis home and works at his office
.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection.
I'm Dr Liz Hale, a psychologist, along with my friend the
professor Dr Dave Schramm, andtogether we have dedicated our
life's work to bringing you thebest we have in valid marital
research, along with a few tipsand tools to help you create the
marriage of your dreams.
You know, Dave, as apsychologist really specializing
(02:04):
in marriage therapy gosh, 33,34 years now I naturally come
across others in the marriagefield.
Right, you just naturallyconnect, yes, and talk about a
gift to be able to do so andcompare notes on trainings and
interventions and et cetera.
And yet also I long to connectto those specializing in
(02:25):
different aspects of psychologyin the field where I don't
automatically come across them.
For instance, I'm so curiousabout what goes on inside the
office walls of an exceptionalpsychotherapist who does really
good individual therapy.
That relationship, I wouldthink one-on-one has got to be
so powerful.
I kind of take the cop out whenI see couples because that
(02:46):
partner the one I'm not talkingto, who's listening, is a little
bit like a co -therapist,because they'll chime in and say
, yeah, honey, I kind of agreewith Liz.
I think there's some truth tothat.
So I love, I love doing what Ido.
But our guest today, Dr AdamDorsey, is one of those
incredible professionals.
Through the years he haseffectively treated hundreds of
(03:06):
patients, from adolescent gangmembers to Fortune 500 execs to
professional athletes, all inthe pressure cooker of Silicon
Valley.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, Adam.
So lovely having you.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Liz and Dave I'm so happy to be with you and hello
Rex, who all individualtherapists are created equally.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Clients report a variety of experiences, from
high to low ratings.
What would you say is your keyto the success in individual
psychotherapy?
What's the logic?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, well, there have been a few pieces of magic.
One of them comes from DanielSiegel, who basically said
there's this very hard topronounce idea called
interpersonal neurobiology.
Essentially that you have yourneurobiology, I have mine, and
when we can bridge them, when wecan really feel into each other
(04:17):
, when we can attune, well, thatis the job of a good therapist.
My job is almost to be like, ifyou can imagine, a really great
sports announcer, following thethoughts and feelings of the
person sitting with me reallywell and being able to name
those in real time and askingdid I get it correct?
(04:39):
We're not talking about, youknow, passes or interceptions
like they do on the footballfield.
But if I'm sitting with someguy, I always call him Freddie
because I've never had a Freddie.
But let's say I'm sitting withFreddie, am I able to attune to
his thoughts and feelings andallow him to feel felt?
That would be thing one.
Thing two was I remember when Iwas learning to be a therapist
(05:00):
and I always wanted to soundlike a therapist.
I wanted to learn therapy as asecond language and I always
wanted to sound like a therapist.
I wanted to learn therapy as asecond language and I finally
realized there was no such thing.
The goal was to have reallywidespread knowledge, multiple
tools in my toolbox, and to beme, and that has been the
winning formula.
(05:20):
My wife and I are verydifferent.
She's a great psychologist aswell.
She has her style, which isnothing like my style, except
for the fact that we come fromsimilar, similar orientations in
some cases.
But it's less about orientation, it's more about the fit of the
people in the room, and I'vealso become very good at making
(05:40):
sure that the person I'm seeingis the right person, the person
who feels understood by me andalso who I can say, based on my
professional duty, that I havethe knowledge to be able to help
them.
And I'm always very clear Isthis somebody I can be effective
with?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Sure, do no harm, right that first.
Yeah, yeah, very good.
Well, it's, it's.
It's very fun to be, fun tojust be a fly on the wall.
I'm watching you.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Likewise, Liz, I'd love to watch you as well, I
imagine you're very good.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I love what I do.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Adam, it makes sense to me that, um, I mean we're
talking about connection heretoday, but you just starting out
talking about connecting withthose that you work with, I like
to say you know, you offer, youestablish a connection before
you offer direction orcorrection, kind of in that
order.
You seem like a natural, againvery personable and relatable,
(06:39):
down to earth type of a personwho can relate to a lot of
people.
I think what's so inspiring,Adam, is that while you often
work with very high functioningexecutives or athletes, as Liz
talked about, your focus isprimarily on encouraging them to
deepen their connections.
Tell us a little bit about, Imean, without those connections,
what concerns do you see?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Sure, well, let's even just zoom out even further,
like why connection?
Why?
Why would that be the criterion?
And it was the book that justbit into cold of me, almost,
like if you can imagine a pitbull, like grabbing onto your
ankle and saying I'm not lettinggo until you've written this
book.
And it was because, if youthink about the DSM, the
(07:20):
diagnostic and statisticalmanual, the diagnostic and
statistical manual, every, everycondition has an aspect of
disconnection within it.
When we're depressed, we'redisconnected from the present,
oftentimes because we'retripping on the past.
When we're anxious, we're oftenfuture tripping.
When we are in a traumaticstate, we are often dissociating
(07:43):
, that's it.
And when we are in a statestate, we are often dissociating
.
And when we are in a state ofpsychosis, we may have a break
from any reality at all as weknow it.
So if disconnection is theopposite of everything we want,
it seems logical that connectionwould be at the heart of
everything we do.
And it's been corroborated bythe fact that I've sat with
people for about 20,000 hoursand they keep talking about
(08:05):
feelings of connection andfeelings of disconnection.
The feelings of connection seemto be good, the feelings of
disconnection seem to beconsistently bad.
And the definition ofconnection itself is nebulous.
If you look it up in theWebster's dictionary, connection
is almost like two train carsconnecting.
I think there's more than that.
I don't think that's what we'retalking about in therapy
(08:26):
feeling connected.
When a comedian is rocking itwith their audience, they are
connecting, and so it's at theheart of everything.
I went on a date last night.
Didn't feel a connection.
But what does that actuallymean?
I spent about two pages comingup with a working definition for
(08:49):
connection, as I intend it.
And it's vitality, it's lifeforce, it is coming alive and
you know it when you have it.
I'm sure you've heard musicthat you just kind of thought I
could take it or leave it, andothers are like my body is
saying a full body, yes here.
And this happens with food.
(09:09):
It happens with people you meet.
It happens with pets you meetif you're a pet person, like I
am.
So connection is at the heartof it all.
It seems to be the precursor tohappiness and meaning.
So in here, you know, obviouslythe clients I see need to feel a
connection with me.
I need to feel a connectionwith them in order for me to do
my job, in order for thatmassive word of interpersonal
(09:32):
neurobiology to transpire, therehas to be a really good mind
meld, there has to be aconnection and, uh, you know,
when you have it, sometimes wefeel disconnected from our
partners.
It's terrifying, uh, if forthose of us who've seen the
still face experiment on youtube, where you see yeah, you're
nodding, where you see a toddlerwho's really connected with her
(09:54):
mom and the mom is cooing andmaking facial expressions and
saying, sweetie, I feelconnected with you, and then
she's told to turn away and thenlook back with a blank face and
the daughter immediately istrying to reconnect and can't,
and you can see the daughterjust become dysregulated, losing
Frantic, frantic, frantic, yeah.
(10:16):
And so we need to feel thatsense of connection in this day
and age all the more salientbecause we are more connected
than ever online and yet lessconnected interpersonally.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Ah, yes, so true, yeah, we're going kind of
different, yeah, the differentdirection right, kind of
conquering that online almostfacade of connection and really
kind of damaging interpersonalconnection.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
It's almost like the NutraSuite of connection.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It's not real yeah yeah, well said, your book is
super psyched.
I love it, love it so much.
It's down in my office now so Ican tell clients about it, but
it is the ultimate handbook forunleashing those connections and
living the life you love.
How did you decide to writeyour book?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You know, it just kept showing up this word called
connection.
The pitfall just took hold of me.
There was no way I wasn'twriting this book.
I knew the right book wouldtake me when it did and this was
the one.
Uh, I've been a connector sinceI was born.
Uh, an unusual connector.
(11:18):
My mom describes pushing me ina stroller, saying that more
than any other baby she'd everseen, I was just constantly
pinging other people, uh, justtrying to connect.
So, uh, that actually led me tolive in Japan for a number of
years and learn the language andlive in Spanish speaking
countries.
I've, I've cared aboutintercultural connection, uh,
(11:40):
cross-lingual connection, Um,and, of course, you know,
connecting really well with thepeople in my life and the pets
in my life.
I have found that in this timeof profound loneliness, at the
heart of that, and a lot ofthese studies are taking place
in Utah, I believe at theuniversity of Utah, where they
have uncovered the fact thatloneliness itself can be worse
(12:01):
than smoking.
15 cigarettes a day can be moreindicative of our mortality
than, or predictive of ourmortality than, various
cardiological readings.
The Cambridge longitudinalstudy shows that, no matter who
you are, whether you're aneducated Harvard person or a
blue collar person from SouthieBoston what matters most in
terms of predicting the lengthof our lives and the quality of
(12:23):
our lives is the quality of ourconnections.
So I decided to look at it, youknow, through four lenses,
since there are four ways weconnect.
There are books on how toconnect with your you know you,
Liz, know more than anybody as acouple of therapists.
All the books, whether they'rewritten by Stan Tatkin or Terry
(12:44):
Real or Esther Perel, are aboutfinding ways to connect with
your partner.
So there are a lot of books onconnecting with your partner and
they're great.
I love those books.
There are some books onconnecting with your clients,
some books on connecting withyour children.
But what about the four ways weconnect, just in and of
themselves?
So if you can imagine fourconcentric circles, almost like
(13:04):
ripples in a pond at the nucleus, it would be how we connect
with ourself.
It's not narcissistic, it's notselfish.
How we connect with ourselfinforms all of the other
connections.
If I'm not connected withmyself, if I have a, I mean I'm
going to be really kind ofvisceral for a second.
But imagine somebody jammed athumbtack into my big toe before
(13:25):
this interview.
How well would I be connectingwith either of you?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I would not be connected to myself.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I'd be slightly distracted and I and I really
would not enjoy that experience.
I certainly would not be ableto access my best thoughts for
this podcast interview.
Similarly, if I you know, youremember those ads on TV where
they show somebody with nasalcongestion and they look like a
giant nose.
I don't know if you've everexperienced that, but I
(13:53):
certainly have where I just feellike I'm walking through life
as a giant nose.
I'm not connecting with myselfvery well.
All I'm feeling is like thisroadblock between you know
myself and my nose, and then itinforms my ability to connect
with somebody at the Walgreenscounter.
I mean, it's just not as good.
So how we connect with ourselfis essential and I would say it
(14:14):
comes down to authenticity.
It comes down to figuring outhow much sleep we've gotten, how
much of this stuff I'm holdingin my hand, also known as
hydration.
If we're profoundly dehydrated,we're not going to be very
connected with ourselves orothers.
So connecting with ourselves isparamount.
It's the first thing and thereare many ways to do so and I
(14:35):
really get into it and geek outto it, up to and including how
we use our time off.
Second level is how we connectwith others.
How am I connecting with thetwo of you?
How do I connect with my wife?
How do I connect with mychildren and my pets and my
clients?
Those are others.
(14:55):
How do I connect on the thirdlevel is how do I connect with
the world?
The world could include art,could include nature, could
include my ancestry and otherthings, ancestry and other
things.
And on the fourth circle, it'show do we connect with something
greater?
For religious people, it couldmean their relationship with God
.
For the most spectacularly, uh,orthodox atheist, uh, even they
(15:19):
would go on, since I'm talkingto Utah could go to Zion
national park and say wow, wow.
They would say wow, wow, theywould say wow.
They'd say that at the grandCanyon, they would say it during
the solar eclipse, and thatwould be indicative that they
are connecting, even if theydon't believe it comes from God.
It could be science, it couldbe just being awestruck.
(15:40):
We now have put the concept ofawe, a-w-e under a microscope
and have found that when we saywow, we are generally in an
awestruck state and we are insomething spiritual.
In 2017, for example, whenthere was the solar eclipse out
in Oregon, strangers werehugging.
Strangers because they stoppedthinking about themselves
(16:03):
because they were so awestruck.
And if you put their brainsunder micro you know
neuroimaging you'd see that thesame receptors that awe hits are
the same receptors thatpsilocybin, the psychoactive
element in magic mushrooms, hits.
So we can have awe and have thesame benefits, or some of the
(16:25):
same benefits, as taking anillegal substance that could
have, you know, could have someunwanted side effects.
But you get all the good stuffby experiencing awe.
And we can experience awe anyday, any time of day, just
watching pancakes being formedfrom a liquid to a solid could
be an awe-inspiring or justlooking at the fire in your
(16:47):
fireplace is awe-inspiring.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, if we don't miss it, right, if we don't miss
it, if we start payingattention, I think we could be
odd all the time 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Liz.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message.
And we're back, let's diveright in.
So and, liz, that's a greatpoint.
(17:19):
I mean that there's all kindsof of things now.
Today we live, I call it, in aday of distraction.
Adam, what are some of you, thebiggest distractions I guess
from?
From these connections?
What would you say?
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I'm gonna give a couple smoking guns.
Let's start with socialcomparison.
I roll up into my, into mydriveway with my brand new car,
bought it with cash.
My first time ever thisliterally happened, and in my
neighborhood I would say thatmany of the cars dwarf the
(17:51):
sticker price of my brand newcar by 2x to 3x.
I could feel diminished.
I could say, oh my gosh, howunfair or how inadequate am I to
have a lesser car, except Iknow that's social comparison
and I want to override thattendency.
I could feel bad about what Ihave because someone else has
something better.
So social comparison is a bigdistractor.
(18:13):
Another big distractor is FOMO.
Last night I bought tickets tosee a comedian this is no joke
and I realized I was tired and Ijust really wanted to be with
my wife and son.
I decided to just let it go andI decided consciously to
experience, instead of fear ofmissing out, which Patrick
(18:34):
McGinnis, the guy who createdFOMO, he describes us as FOMO
sapiens, which I think is prettyfunny.
Um, but I decided to engage inJomo, the joy of missing out,
and instead I doubled down onbeing with my, my wife and son.
I did miss out on seeing withmy, my wife and son.
I did miss out on seeing areally, really good comedian and
I'm a little bummed.
(18:55):
My sister had seen him thenight before and said you cannot
miss this.
It was Alex Moffitt of SaturdayNight Live.
This is a.
This was a big deal and I stilldecided to forego it.
I just really wanted to justexperience the joy of missing
out, and we can all do that.
I, if I had gone, I was just, Iwas just too tired.
I just really needed to chillin my little, in my little
(19:16):
sweats and fuzzy slippers.
Another one that we canexperience is this little.
You may have seen one of these.
There's this little blue lightthat I have in my pocket is
attached to a smartphone and itsays look at me, look at me.
You know there might besomebody standing right in front
of me, but it's still sayinglook at me because you just got
(19:36):
a text dopamine, dopamine.
Let's see who's I mean, let'ssee who's texting me.
That's so exciting, but there'sa person right here, right in
front of me or maybe I'm meantto, you know, actually take a
five minute nap, um, but no, no,no, uh, that phone.
It's Colin, and I can't wait tofind out what's behind the
mystery and what is this persongoing to say.
(19:59):
Uh, social media, oh my gosh.
And you know just how how manypeople feel great after a real
spelunk into the social mediareality.
Not too many, I would say.
I think that generally, on theother side of using social media
, it actually uses us.
So one of the things that I'vetold people because we do need a
(20:21):
control, alt, delete, we need asystem override.
When we're engaged in thesekind of defaults, we need to be
more conscious about what we'redoing and ask ourselves how do I
, how do I use social media butnot let it use me?
How do I create more andconsume less?
And what would be consistentwith creating?
(20:43):
Would it mean that I'mgardening?
Would it mean that I'm writing?
Would it mean that you know I'mdoing a project with my son?
Whatever it is?
But one thing we know for sureis when we create more and
consume less, we tend toexperience more flow.
And so to your point, dave, thedistractors are omnipresent
(21:03):
these days.
The news is a big one.
We can, I mean, everything feelsurgent.
General Eisenhower had thisbeautiful X and Y axis where he
said there is, there are urgentthings, and there are important
things, and oftentimes theurgent keeps pinging us and we
never get around to theimportant.
And so it's really importantthat we not that we that we
(21:23):
figure out how much of socialmedia do we want to use, how
much media do we want to exposeourself to, and to be really
conscientious about this?
Think of it as salt or sugar,like some, is good.
Too much may mess us up.
So and everybody has differentlevels, but I can tell you
(21:47):
seeing urgent, urgent, urgentcoming across the media all the
time Fear, fear, fear, anger,anger, anger.
It does bad things.
It causes us to have what'scalled you'll appreciate this
and I'm sure you're familiarwith this but the part of our
brain that handles theseemotions of anger and fear is
the amygdala, and over time, theamygdala can actually hijack a
(22:09):
part of our brain called theprefrontal cortex, which helps
us make decisions and plan anddo other things.
And when we're too much in fearwatching social media, watching
the news, et cetera, et cetera,et cetera, talking only about
how terrible things are we endup unwittingly hijacking a very
(22:29):
important part of our brains.
So these are all some of thedistractors.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, man, all kinds, and they're really limitless.
I would say especially they'relimitless.
All kinds of things that arereally begging for our attention
, right, our attention.
I like to say lack of attentionleads to loss of connection.
If you're not consciouslypaying attention to that person
or that relationship, thenyou'll naturally drift apart.
(22:56):
I love your idea, adam, ofhelping clients create a
connection formula, right, howdoes that look exactly?
And do you mind taking usthrough the steps of forming our
own connection formula?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Absolutely so.
There's often a chasm betweenwhat we know and what we do.
There's often a chasm betweenwhat we love to do and what we
actually do, and I would askeverybody to just think back in
the last three months, how muchtime have you spent doing the
stuff that really brings you joy?
How much time have you spentwith people who really bring you
(23:33):
joy?
How much time have you spentdoing the things that actually
you think are kind of importantto like social media, but
actually maybe don't bring youjoy?
How many times have you wokenup on a Saturday morning boiling
some coffee, petting the dog,folding the laundry, watching
Netflix, answering texts andemails all simultaneously while
(23:56):
doing none of these things?
We all do that.
We go for what is easy ratherthan and oftentimes, the really
cool stuff.
Like going for a bike riderequires a little bit of you
know what I call activationenergy.
It may cost a little price ofadmission.
You got to pump up the tires,get out the bike rack, put it on
(24:17):
the car, make sure the chain'sall good, and then you go and
like where am I going to bike?
I mean out here in San Jose.
Usually it's going to require alittle bit of driving to get to
the spot.
I don't.
Maybe in Utah it might be alittle bit better where you can
just do it from your house, butgenerally speaking there's a
little bit of a cost, energy,and most time we want to do
(24:38):
what's easy.
So how do you find that formula?
You ask yourself what are yourbiggest feeders and how much are
you putting them into play andhow they relate to how you
connect yourself, others, theworld and something beyond.
Each of us has differentdirectives within.
Each of us has differentformulas for how we connect.
(25:01):
For example, my dad goes to theopera regularly.
I could go to the opera maybeonce a season, and it better be
a three hour or less opera.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
My dad can go to a six hour.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Wagnerian opera and be like oh you know, and for me
that's just a very expensiveplace to sleep.
So in my dad could go fivelifetimes without touching a dog
or a cat.
I can't go through a day, I, I,I need my animals.
That's part of my.
So we have different.
My dad and I, even though we'reso genetically similar, we have
(25:44):
vastly different connectionformulas in certain ways.
So the important thing is not totry to impose someone else's
connection formula onto yourself, but to really ask yourself
what brings me alive.
List of possible activities.
They aren't.
They are by no means theexhaustive list of activities to
do, but some activities thatmight jumpstart people to think
about.
What are some things that Ineed to be putting into play on
the regular for me to feelconnected in one of the four
areas, and each of us hasdifferent connection formulas.
(26:05):
I'm a foodie.
I got to go out regularly.
That would be very importantfor me, so I guess I'd put it
back to you.
What are, if it's okay, daveand Liz, what is one thing that
you know for sure on the otherside of doing it, even if it
requires some activation, energy, you're going to say to
yourself that was time wellspent.
(26:26):
I felt alive.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah.
For me it's taking a walk.
I mean, I walk more from myhead than my hips.
That's awesome.
It's paramount for me toconnect with myself first and
foremost, before I can connectwith my husband, others.
God you know, I got to get myown head straight.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So you were right at the nucleus.
You needed to connect withyourself first.
Put on your own oxygen maskfirst, before you get it.
Yeah, got it, and that's, Ithink that.
How about you, dave?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I would say you know, snowboarding, sometimes just
with my son there's, I get intothat state of flow and the day
goes by that fast and justcarving through powder, there's
it.
Just it's like this is so great, so I love that oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And the poor listeners who don't live in utah
, which is probably most of us.
I am told that the utah powderis the best ever it is, yeah,
greatest snow on earth.
Yep, that's right, and itrequires activation energy,
doesn't it, dave does?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
yeah, some planning and okay, it's 40 minutes up the
canyon and and okay, I gottaget this that ready.
Uh, the plan the night before.
So yeah, it does.
It takes some, some workactually to to arrive at that
sense of flow, yeah and on theother side of doing it.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
How are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
it is.
It is like it's it's hard toexplain like the rush, and I
mean it's adrenaline, yes, butit's just like I'm lost.
It's adrenaline, yes, but it'sjust like I'm lost in it.
It's kind of like connectingwith the world.
It is just the sense of life isgood right now, and all the
other stresses and things itjust melts away because I'm so
dialed in to hitting the slopes,it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
So I'm going to take a guess here that, liz, part of
your connection formula issomething you can do pretty much
every day of the year, and thatis go out on that walk, and
you're probably way moreavailable to the important
people in your life after you'redone.
And I'm guessing every snowseason for you, Dave.
There's a particular number oftimes that you better be hitting
the slopes, Otherwise, on theother side of the season, you're
going to say, damn, did notmeet my quota.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Yeah, and there have been those years that I'm like,
man, I was so busy and I am.
I'm really bummed, yeah, whenI'm not able to do it as much as
I want.
That's that, that is a, that isa portion of each of your
connection formulas.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I love that idea, that connection formula idea.
Thanks Adam.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
How do we better connect?
How do we better connect withour families and our spouse?
Adam, you know, do you have afavorite story of an individual
client, maybe, who deepenedtheir connection at home because
of their own individual efforts, maybe?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Unequivocally.
I believe that, whether it'sfamily or spouse, our 35 to
100,000 year old brains arewired to go on a quest.
When we were cave people, wewent on quests, whether it was
for food or foraging, whateverit was, and our brains haven't
changed pretty much at all in35,000, some even estimate
(29:20):
100,000 years.
So we want to do what oursurroundings have, but we can go
on quests today.
So what would be a good quest?
A good quest might be being atourist in your own area.
I'm betting that there aretouristic places.
Is that a word?
Touristic?
Whatever, I think it is thatthere are places of tourism not
(29:41):
far away and you could probablyget a Salt Lake City or a Utah
travel guide and find coolplaces to go and act like a
tourist in your own area.
I took my.
There was a father's day.
I took my family.
My wife's lived in SanFrancisco well over a decade.
I lived San Francisco adjacentfor at least as long and I was
(30:05):
there all the time and we bothknow the city inside out.
For a father's day, I took myfamily on a gray line tour of
san francisco.
So here we are, basically like,where are you from?
You know, just down the street.
Um, uh, we're with people fromomaha and germany and texas and
they're just like going crazyover this great city and my wife
(30:27):
and I learned more about ourcity on that Grayline tour
through the eyes of tourists.
And if there is, you know, ifthere's something called Atlas
Obscura?
It's a website that has allthese weird, weird local stuff
things that you can do Like youknow so-and-so had.
You know, saw ghosts over hereand you just go there with your
(30:48):
family ghosts over here and youjust go there with your family,
or another one that I reallylove, and it can be done in
dyads, like a father and son ora daughter and mom, or however
you want to do it, or all fourof you go on a quest for four
weeks trying to find the best,I'm just going to say random
food burger could be burger, itcould be ramen, could be donut,
whatever you want to do and forfour weeks in a row, you come up
(31:10):
with like a rubric, you come upwith like a grading system for
the burger place let's go with.
You know what's the ambiencelike, what is the quality of the
meat, how's the bun, how's theFrench fries, how's the quality
of the waitstaff and everybodyrates them.
(31:33):
This is another very simplequest, not expensive, but the
trans, the conversations thattranspire when you're having fun
today together.
I don't remember which ancientGreeks said it, I mean it would
have been Plato or Socrates, uh,could have been Aristotle, who
said that they'll know more froman hour of playing with someone
than they'll know for my yearof talking.
And so when we're playingtogether, we're on a quest,
(31:55):
we're experiencing somethingnovel.
There's also something veryinteresting too when we do
something novel, we see thepeople who we know really well
through new eyes.
Um, and there are even somestudies that suggest that when
couples do that, the, the, wecan find each other a little
more attractive.
I remember asking Pat Love,who's the author of Hot Monogamy
(32:16):
, for her one tip.
She said do something noveltogether.
And I would say that goesbeyond just the couple.
It would be for the family andand the individual right.
Oh for sure.
And the individual.
And I mean mean hittingsomething new and finding new
oceans within ourselves.
I remember when I was 10 yearsold my dad is I, I mentioned
(32:38):
he's opera man and he didn'tlike.
He didn't like baseball, hedidn't like live sports.
He thought it was that wasstupid, a waste of time.
10 years old, I take him to hisI'm not making this up 10 years
old, I take him to his firstbaseball game and it took him
nine innings to fall madly inlove with baseball and he's a
rabid Giants fan and he neverwould have thought that would
(33:00):
have happened.
Then I have my own children.
They're super into basketball.
I was baseball football all dayand then we start watching the
Golden State Warriors togetherand there's nothing I would
rather do with my two boys andgo to chase and watch some
golden state warriors live.
It's the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I love that.
I love that.
Um, adam, what about friends?
Right?
Sometimes have a more difficulttime.
You gave a TEDx, uh, talking onthe on this topic, give us some
.
I mean, what are the mainprinciples right To share with
us about maintaining friendships, those connections?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
For sure.
So let's imagine somebody whowas born in Ohio, went to
college on the East Coast, gottheir first job in Texas and
then moved to the Bay Area.
This happens all the time in myoffice and each of those places
they had friends and they sworethey'd stay in touch.
You know, when they wereleaving, like I'm definitely
staying in touch with you, andthey stay in touch for the first
month or so and then thingsbegin to dwindle and we need
(34:01):
friends.
As I mentioned, loneliness is ahorrible thing and, as Esther
Perel reminds us, she's one ofthe great couple therapists.
She said we used to live invillages where we had tons of
people for tons of differentthings.
We had a, you know, a hikingbuddy, a drinking buddy, a
building buddy, a fishing buddy,you know a knitting buddy, a
whatever buddy, and now weexpect our spouse to play all of
(34:22):
the roles of all the buddiesand the whole village is
basically on the spouse'sshoulders.
If I was to try to take my wifeto a Golden State Warriors game
, she would not be stoked.
I can't expect her to join mefor that.
That's not her thing and forsure.
Like going to hardly strictlybluegrass in Golden Gate Park,
(34:42):
not my thing.
She loves it.
So one of the things thathappens when we are kind of
forced, kind of that kind ofsquare peg in a round hole, we
end up doing the thing to be agood spouse, Except for the fact
that we end up consenting andresenting and we don't have a
good time.
It's like damn, this is what Idid for my Sunday.
(35:04):
That was not awesome.
But friends, friends are likesuperheroes.
They all have different roles.
Uh, but friends, friends arelike superheroes.
They all have different roles.
Some of our friends, you know,help us problem solve or geek
out with us to technology.
Some of our friends we can talkabout real relationship stuff.
Some of our friends are theguys we go see sports with or
play cards with, and somefriends have multiple roles, Um,
(35:26):
but I like at leastappreciating them as superheroes
, with kind of a letteremblazoned on their chest like
this is the person who I do thiswith and I don't expect my
sports buddy to be like my psychbuddy, Like he's not the guy I
necessarily go for, the touchy,feely stuff.
Maybe he is, Maybe he's twofer,but oftentimes they're not and
(35:47):
I don't discount the friendship.
I appreciate what role each ofthem plays.
So I'm really a big fan offriendship.
I think that marriages do muchbetter when each member of the
couple has friends.
Paul Rudd was in a movie calledI Love you man, where he's
marrying Rashida Jones and hehas no friends, no best men.
(36:08):
She's got like six bridesmaidshe's got nothing.
Bridesmaids he's got nothing.
And he suddenly realizes oh myGod, I gotta get with some
friends.
And it's one of my favoritemovies of all time.
There's something so beautifulabout when men are willing to
just go there and get a littlemore vulnerable, maybe talk a
little bit more than just aboutsports, tech and politics, which
(36:31):
are very easy topics.
Sports, tech and politics Sure,those are fine to talk about
for a minute.
But what about what's reallygoing on in our lives?
Can we go there?
And obviously that's a slowprogression.
You just kind of bid up and seeif the relationship can handle
it.
Bid up and see if therelationship can handle it.
(36:54):
But I am a real advocate of menbeing able to rely on men as as
as bros and buds, and certainlyfor women to do the same.
So I think that marriages willbe profoundly improved.
Last thought on this I rememberwhen I met my wife.
She was my nearly girlfriend.
(37:14):
She was the person I was dating.
But when I met her friends andI realized they were high
quality people, she haddescribed them perfectly and I
also knew that these peoplewould be the people she would go
to when she needed advice aboutus Interesting.
And I knew those were smart,kind, heartful people.
(37:36):
And the next day I asked her togo steady.
I was like I know it soundsdorky for like a 30-year-old I
was 34 at the time but I waslike I really want us to be
exclusive and it was not longafter, but seeing her friends
mattered to me.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
That's interesting.
That's so wise, so wise of you.
Oh, thanks, right, really.
So that's such a great point, Ithink, for any of us, those who
are dating and great, and mateis what a great thing.
We talk about meeting theirfamily, but also about those
that they choose to spend timewith.
What about the circle offriends?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
We'll be right back after this brief message.
And we're back, let's diveright in and what about work?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
adam, the average person you say will spend what?
90 000 of their lives at work.
Wow, I was connection work.
How can they really go hand inhand, my friend?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
so there are a few ways.
First of all, some people maynot feel connected to work.
Some people have the luxury ofbeing able to step out and try
something else, and if they wantto do that, you know, one of
the things I recommend doing isget as much information as
possible.
Find out what your values are.
Find out today's former idea ofsnowboarding.
You talked about flow.
Flow is that beautiful,delicious, immersive space where
(39:03):
eight hours of doing a thingfeels like three and you're like
what, where did the time go?
Um, we can experience that atwork.
Now.
Some of us don't have theopportunity to change the job,
so, regardless, what I would askpeople to do is to ask
themselves what vocationalmuscle do they want to improve
(39:25):
while they are at work, and it'sprobably from something you
value.
Maybe it's analytical skills,maybe it's interpersonal skills,
maybe it's team building skills, maybe it's managerial skills.
Maybe you're not at the idealjob, but maybe you can find
something you can geek out toand get better at, while doing
(39:45):
your job and doing well for thecompany and also improving
yourself at the same time andlosing yourself to that flow.
There are certain ways of doingthis.
There's a, an online freeinventory called the values in
action via characterorg yeah, Ilove that one and they show 24
(40:06):
validated strengths.
I remember when I was relegatedto bank teller I was 24 years
old, I'd just come back fromJapan.
I was super bummed about beinga bank teller because people
treated me like what I called ameat based ATM.
They're like give me a hundreddollars for this check and
deposit this, and they wouldhardly even look at me and I was
like, hey, there's a personhere.
(40:27):
Um, at the time I was readingman's search for meaning by
Victor Frankel, that great bookand I was thinking like, how do
I make this meaningful?
And I was like this was beforethe VIA existed.
And I was like, huh, I see 120people a day.
I want to be a psychologist.
I want to be able to be able totalk to as many different types
of people as possible.
This could be like my gym like,where I see 120 people.
(40:49):
I make 119 of them smile, if notlaugh, and balance at the end
of the day.
I'm seeing you know soccer moms.
I'm seeing lawyers.
I'm seeing construction workers, people fresh off the boat from
another country, people withvarying degrees of of, of of
riches, all the way to peoplewho are very, very much what we
(41:12):
would consider financially.
Or can I make 119 of them smile, if not laugh?
And the answer was yes, I could.
And it became one of the mostimportant jobs I've ever had
because it became my trainingground.
I did well by the company, butI also did well by me, and my
eight hour shifts began to feellike two hour shifts, like they
(41:34):
went by quick, because I wasexperiencing that flow, that
immersiveness, that challengeand meaning.
And so we can all do that atour jobs.
Even if we don't love our jobsand can't leave our jobs, we can
probably find an element, findsomething, something, and one of
the other ways I could describeit is take your dot-com job and
(41:56):
see it as a dot-edu job.
Yes, you're making money forthe company, but you're also
learning job.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yes, you're making money for the company but you're
also learning Good.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I love it.
That's great, adam.
Before we let you go, we liketo ask all of our guests a
couple of questions when theycome on our show.
And the first question, inhonor of the name of our podcast
Stronger Marriage Connection iswhat do you believe is the key?
Is there a key or keys to astronger marriage connection?
Speaker 3 (42:23):
There are a lot of people, when they're dating I'm
just going to be really, reallycrass and up front tend to go
from the bottom up.
They tend to when we thinkabout our, our organs that are
involved in the dating process.
Oftentimes they start south andmove northward in the dating
(42:45):
process.
Oftentimes they start South andmove Northward.
Um, I, I'm thinking of, uh, ofcourse, uh, the things the
procreation tools below, uh,heart and then head.
I'm a big fan of starting withthe head.
Does this make sense?
Are we actually a good match,using the brain as an assessment
tool to predict?
Do we fight well?
Are we on the same team?
(43:07):
How quickly do we recoup aftera bit of a, of a, of a of things
going sideways?
Um, are our values aligned, ourhopes aligned?
Do we want to have?
Do we have similar philosophiesof raising children?
Do we, do we both, wantchildren?
How many children do we want torun our own?
Where do we want to live?
(43:27):
How supportive are we whenthings go well and when things
go very badly?
So, start with the head is myprime, and then go down to the
heart and then, of course, theprocreation tool, and then the
stomach is always there.
The stomach is alwaysmonitoring, asking huh, how's
this feeling in my gut?
(43:48):
But I think if we can go withthat sequence head down and all
have to have a green light, wewant green lights from all of
the organs, but if we couldstart with a head, I think that
would make a lot of great sense.
And that was what I finally didbefore I met my wife and 22
(44:09):
years in, we are a very loving,efficient system as well.
So the word efficient may soundunsexy, but oh, I get it.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, isn't that a great word?
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah but no, I like I get it yeah isn't that a great
word?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
yeah, yeah, I think we all get that.
It's a lot of wasted time to toargue and bicker and fight,
right, it's not efficient.
Yeah, right, is it part of that?
Is that what you're part ofthat's?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
exactly what I'm talking about I get it and do we
?
do we also agree?
Do we?
I mean some, some couples neverget anything passed through
congress because they're stilltrying to figure out where their
kid are going to go to school,because one of them wants public
school, One of them wantsprivate school.
My wife and I have been veryefficient, whether it's been
choosing pets, choosing,choosing schools, choosing which
(44:54):
house to live, in choosing howwe allocate our money.
Money allocation, I mean if, ifmy office was a family feud
game.
Our top question is, you know,love and sex, then comes money
and then comes the children.
There are so many.
If we can agree on the bigs andit doesn't take long for us to
(45:15):
come to consensus, that'sefficient.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Nicely done.
Yeah, when can we all find outmore about you, Adam, your
practice and your book?
Super psyched, and we'll besure to link those to our show
notes.
Where do we go, my friend?
Speaker 3 (45:28):
I'm so honored.
First of all, the book isavailable at Amazon and Barnes
and Noble.
I'm available for keynotes andfor all types of work.
I do a lot of corporate workwork.
I do a lot of corporate work,dr Adam Dorseycom
D-R-A-D-A-M-D-O-R-S-A-Y Forthose in California.
I am licensed in the state ofCalifornia to provide
(45:49):
psychotherapy here.
Let's see my TEDx talks.
I've got two of them availableon YouTube one on men and
emotions, the other onfriendship and adulthood.
My podcast, which was recentlya Sharecare award-winning
podcast it's hitting its 250thepisode tomorrow timestamp and
(46:09):
so it's been really fun.
I've had people like Steve Kerron from the Golden State
Warriors and Temple Grandin andPhil Zimbardo may his memory be
a blessing Very interestingfolks, so it's been a really fun
time to have Super Psych, thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, the same name, super Psych.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Yeah, good for you, yeah same name, decided to keep
the branding consistent, and Ithink those are the places where
they find me.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Love it, adam, excuse me, and we'll again.
Like Liz said, we'll put allthose in our show notes for our
listeners so you can go thereand find out more about Adam and
all he offers.
Adam, hey, before we let you go, what's your takeaway of the
day?
We call it a take-home messagethat you hope our listeners will
remember from today.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Well, one of the takeaways is I've just been
watching you and Liz and the twoof you are a very efficient
system.
The two of you work well.
I know that you're not romanticpartners, you're friends, but I
think I remember when I wasstudying group therapy in my
master's program, dr JerryShapiro said choose your
(47:15):
co-leader wisely the way youwould choose a spouse.
They're not your spouse, butchoose them with the same kinds
of intelligence.
And I think my takeaway islisten, listeners.
Listen to how Dave and Lizshare, listen to how the two of
them coordinate, have eachother's back, almost like it's a
(47:36):
buddy cop film.
This is the two of you areexemplars of what a good
relationship means, to borrowfrom Stan Tatkin, how the two of
you are in each other's care.
So I felt really good being onyour podcast because the two of
you are such a strong duo.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, that is very kind.
Yeah, and I think we do Right,liz.
We get along great, liz.
What about you?
What's your takeaway of the day?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
It is really an honor doing this and having you, adam
, join us, and Dave, it's justbeen a thrill.
You know I love these fourdifferent ways of connection,
and self especially.
We like to say here aroundStronger, merge, connect,
marriage connection.
Out of that, a strong.
We is made up of two strong andhealthy me's and I just don't
(48:27):
think that we can emphasize thatenough.
I see in couples so easy it's,it's um, we get wrapped up in
pointing the finger to the otherperson where, very much so, you
know, I could ruin a perfectlygood day all by myself, just me,
myself and I, with no buy-infrom my husband and I could also
send this lovely evening oninto the next new morning.
(48:49):
Just me, myself and I, withoutany buy-in from Ben.
We're just.
We're that powerful as partners, so I really love that.
It starts with self.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Totally, yeah.
Yes, it's interesting.
Before the whole Rainy Moffittthing, I was just kind of I
don't think I had a greatnight's sleep and I just wasn't
at my best and my wife had thekindness to just kind of reflect
back to me like, dude, you'retalking in a way that's not
hitting, and we had thatcoordination and I trusted her
enough to say, oh my God, I getit her enough to say oh my God,
(49:24):
I get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, let me go get a workout andlet me come back to you Um, and
that's what I did Um, and I was, I was, I was better for it.
but suffice it to say, yeah,like we can.
We have to give ourselves graceand in each other grace, and
engage with that thing that theycall self-compassion which we
didn't even get into, but it'ssuch an important topic and to
give others compassion.
Two great me's create a greatwe, and one of the things is
(49:47):
yeah, it's the buddy cop film.
Like, we trust each otherenough so that if the other
person says you're a little offtoday, you know it's like you're
.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
But I've got you right.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Yeah, and it doesn't define you.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, I'd love to know what your gold nugget is
going to stay with you after ourvisit today with Dr Adam Dorsey
.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, this, sincerely , has been one of my favorite
episodes.
I love this topic.
I love what I just can actuallyconnect with with everything
that you're you're talking about.
Maybe it's the I love the fourareas as well.
To me, it maybe is thedistractions.
Right, there's so much thatpeople are more important than
problems.
Right?
I've been preaching that to mykids and audiences it's people.
(50:30):
It's people that really matterwhen all is said and done.
It's relationships, it's theseconnections, and so, whatever
distractions our listeners mayhave, take a pause and say, okay
, what really matters there's somany things competing for our
time, for our attention anddistractions, and it could be
our own moods, you know.
Take a pause and say, okay,yeah, it's really.
(50:53):
Connections is really one ofour core needs and, in my mind,
one of the things that mattersmost.
I know my connections andrelationships matter more than
almost anything else.
Right, in this, in this world,it's these, these connections.
So thank you so much for the,for the wonderful information
and the reminders, these littleprinciples and practices that we
can all do to to have betterconnections.
(51:14):
Oh, thanks, dave.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
So much fun to be with you.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
All right, friends, that does it for us.
We will see you again onanother episode of Stronger
Marriage Connection.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
And remember it's the small and simple things that
create a stronger marriageconnection.
Take good care now.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram at
(51:55):
Stronger Marriage Life andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(52:16):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the Utahmarriage commission at Utah
state university.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah stateuniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
(52:40):
of the Utah marriage commission.
On today's episode, dr Liz and I are thrilled to be
joined by Dr Adam Dorsey, authorof the fascinating new book
Super Psyched.
Today, we're diving deep intothe science of human connection,
as Adam shares hisgroundbreaking framework of four
distinct types of connectionthat shape our relationships.
We also explore what gets inthe way of meaningful
(00:24):
connections in our modern world,and Dr Dorsey reveals his
powerful connection formula thatcan transform how we build and
maintain relationships.
Whether you're looking tostrengthen your personal
relationships or betterunderstand the bonds you share
with others, you won't want tomiss this insightful
conversation.
Dr Adam Dorsey is a licensedpsychologist and executive coach
(00:45):
in Silicon Valley, where heworks with high achieving adults
, including professionals,executives, entrepreneurs and
professional athletes.
Adam is also the host of theSuper Psyched podcast and has
given TEDx talks.
His new bestselling book, superPsyched Unleash the Power of
the Four Types of Connection andLive the Life you Love, is now
(01:07):
available on Amazon and BarnesNoble.
He regularly consults andspeaks to numerous audiences,
including keynotes and trainingsto organizations including
Microsoft, linkedin and theCalifornia Psychological
Association.
He is happily married, thefather of young boys, and he has
a hypoallergenic 33-poundAustralian Labradoodle therapy
(01:28):
dog named Raffy, who lives athis home and works at his office
.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection.
I'm Dr Liz Hale, a psychologist, along with my friend the
professor Dr Dave Schramm, andtogether we have dedicated our
life's work to bringing you thebest we have in valid marital
research, along with a few tipsand tools to help you create the
marriage of your dreams.
You know, Dave, as apsychologist really specializing
(02:04):
in marriage therapy gosh, 33,34 years now I naturally come
across others in the marriagefield.
Right, you just naturallyconnect, yes, and talk about a
gift to be able to do so andcompare notes on trainings and
interventions and et cetera.
And yet also I long to connectto those specializing in
(02:25):
different aspects of psychologyin the field where I don't
automatically come across them.
For instance, I'm so curiousabout what goes on inside the
office walls of an exceptionalpsychotherapist who does really
good individual therapy.
That relationship, I wouldthink one-on-one has got to be
so powerful.
I kind of take the cop out whenI see couples because that
(02:46):
partner the one I'm not talkingto, who's listening, is a little
bit like a co -therapist,because they'll chime in and say
, yeah, honey, I kind of agreewith Liz.
I think there's some truth tothat.
So I love, I love doing what Ido.
But our guest today, Dr AdamDorsey, is one of those
incredible professionals.
Through the years he haseffectively treated hundreds of
(03:06):
patients, from adolescent gangmembers to Fortune 500 execs to
professional athletes, all inthe pressure cooker of Silicon
Valley.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, Adam.
So lovely having you.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Liz and Dave I'm so happy to be with you and hello
Rex, who all individualtherapists are created equally.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Clients report a variety of experiences, from
high to low ratings.
What would you say is your keyto the success in individual
psychotherapy?
What's the logic?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, well, there have been a few pieces of magic.
One of them comes from DanielSiegel, who basically said
there's this very hard topronounce idea called
interpersonal neurobiology.
Essentially that you have yourneurobiology, I have mine, and
when we can bridge them, when wecan really feel into each other
(04:17):
, when we can attune, well, thatis the job of a good therapist.
My job is almost to be like, ifyou can imagine, a really great
sports announcer, following thethoughts and feelings of the
person sitting with me reallywell and being able to name
those in real time and askingdid I get it correct?
(04:39):
We're not talking about, youknow, passes or interceptions
like they do on the footballfield.
But if I'm sitting with someguy, I always call him Freddie
because I've never had a Freddie.
But let's say I'm sitting withFreddie, am I able to attune to
his thoughts and feelings andallow him to feel felt?
That would be thing one.
Thing two was I remember when Iwas learning to be a therapist
(05:00):
and I always wanted to soundlike a therapist.
I wanted to learn therapy as asecond language and I always
wanted to sound like a therapist.
I wanted to learn therapy as asecond language and I finally
realized there was no such thing.
The goal was to have reallywidespread knowledge, multiple
tools in my toolbox, and to beme, and that has been the
winning formula.
(05:20):
My wife and I are verydifferent.
She's a great psychologist aswell.
She has her style, which isnothing like my style, except
for the fact that we come fromsimilar, similar orientations in
some cases.
But it's less about orientation, it's more about the fit of the
people in the room, and I'vealso become very good at making
(05:40):
sure that the person I'm seeingis the right person, the person
who feels understood by me andalso who I can say, based on my
professional duty, that I havethe knowledge to be able to help
them.
And I'm always very clear Isthis somebody I can be effective
with?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Sure, do no harm, right that first.
Yeah, yeah, very good.
Well, it's, it's.
It's very fun to be, fun tojust be a fly on the wall.
I'm watching you.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
Likewise, Liz, I'd love to watch you as well, I
imagine you're very good.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I love what I do.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Adam, it makes sense to me that, um, I mean we're
talking about connection heretoday, but you just starting out
talking about connecting withthose that you work with, I like
to say you know, you offer, youestablish a connection before
you offer direction orcorrection, kind of in that
order.
You seem like a natural, againvery personable and relatable,
(06:39):
down to earth type of a personwho can relate to a lot of
people.
I think what's so inspiring,Adam, is that while you often
work with very high functioningexecutives or athletes, as Liz
talked about, your focus isprimarily on encouraging them to
deepen their connections.
Tell us a little bit about, Imean, without those connections,
what concerns do you see?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Sure, well, let's even just zoom out even further,
like why connection?
Why?
Why would that be the criterion?
And it was the book that justbit into cold of me, almost,
like if you can imagine a pitbull, like grabbing onto your
ankle and saying I'm not lettinggo until you've written this
book.
And it was because, if youthink about the DSM, the
(07:20):
diagnostic and statisticalmanual, the diagnostic and
statistical manual, every, everycondition has an aspect of
disconnection within it.
When we're depressed, we'redisconnected from the present,
oftentimes because we'retripping on the past.
When we're anxious, we're oftenfuture tripping.
When we are in a traumaticstate, we are often dissociating
(07:43):
, that's it.
And when we are in a statestate, we are often dissociating
.
And when we are in a state ofpsychosis, we may have a break
from any reality at all as weknow it.
So if disconnection is theopposite of everything we want,
it seems logical that connectionwould be at the heart of
everything we do.
And it's been corroborated bythe fact that I've sat with
people for about 20,000 hoursand they keep talking about
(08:05):
feelings of connection andfeelings of disconnection.
The feelings of connection seemto be good, the feelings of
disconnection seem to beconsistently bad.
And the definition ofconnection itself is nebulous.
If you look it up in theWebster's dictionary, connection
is almost like two train carsconnecting.
I think there's more than that.
I don't think that's what we'retalking about in therapy
(08:26):
feeling connected.
When a comedian is rocking itwith their audience, they are
connecting, and so it's at theheart of everything.
I went on a date last night.
Didn't feel a connection.
But what does that actuallymean?
I spent about two pages comingup with a working definition for
(08:49):
connection, as I intend it.
And it's vitality, it's lifeforce, it is coming alive and
you know it when you have it.
I'm sure you've heard musicthat you just kind of thought I
could take it or leave it, andothers are like my body is
saying a full body, yes here.
And this happens with food.
(09:09):
It happens with people you meet.
It happens with pets you meetif you're a pet person, like I
am.
So connection is at the heartof it all.
It seems to be the precursor tohappiness and meaning.
So in here, you know, obviouslythe clients I see need to feel a
connection with me.
I need to feel a connectionwith them in order for me to do
my job, in order for thatmassive word of interpersonal
(09:32):
neurobiology to transpire, therehas to be a really good mind
meld, there has to be aconnection and, uh, you know,
when you have it, sometimes wefeel disconnected from our
partners.
It's terrifying, uh, if forthose of us who've seen the
still face experiment on youtube, where you see yeah, you're
nodding, where you see a toddlerwho's really connected with her
(09:54):
mom and the mom is cooing andmaking facial expressions and
saying, sweetie, I feelconnected with you, and then
she's told to turn away and thenlook back with a blank face and
the daughter immediately istrying to reconnect and can't,
and you can see the daughterjust become dysregulated, losing
Frantic, frantic, frantic, yeah.
(10:16):
And so we need to feel thatsense of connection in this day
and age all the more salientbecause we are more connected
than ever online and yet lessconnected interpersonally.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Ah, yes, so true, yeah, we're going kind of
different, yeah, the differentdirection right, kind of
conquering that online almostfacade of connection and really
kind of damaging interpersonalconnection.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
It's almost like the NutraSuite of connection.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
It's not real yeah yeah, well said, your book is
super psyched.
I love it, love it so much.
It's down in my office now so Ican tell clients about it, but
it is the ultimate handbook forunleashing those connections and
living the life you love.
How did you decide to writeyour book?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
You know, it just kept showing up this word called
connection.
The pitfall just took hold of me.
There was no way I wasn'twriting this book.
I knew the right book wouldtake me when it did and this was
the one.
Uh, I've been a connector sinceI was born.
Uh, an unusual connector.
(11:18):
My mom describes pushing me ina stroller, saying that more
than any other baby she'd everseen, I was just constantly
pinging other people, uh, justtrying to connect.
So, uh, that actually led me tolive in Japan for a number of
years and learn the language andlive in Spanish speaking
countries.
I've, I've cared aboutintercultural connection, uh,
(11:40):
cross-lingual connection, Um,and, of course, you know,
connecting really well with thepeople in my life and the pets
in my life.
I have found that in this timeof profound loneliness, at the
heart of that, and a lot ofthese studies are taking place
in Utah, I believe at theuniversity of Utah, where they
have uncovered the fact thatloneliness itself can be worse
(12:01):
than smoking.
15 cigarettes a day can be moreindicative of our mortality
than, or predictive of ourmortality than, various
cardiological readings.
The Cambridge longitudinalstudy shows that, no matter who
you are, whether you're aneducated Harvard person or a
blue collar person from SouthieBoston what matters most in
terms of predicting the lengthof our lives and the quality of
(12:23):
our lives is the quality of ourconnections.
So I decided to look at it, youknow, through four lenses,
since there are four ways weconnect.
There are books on how toconnect with your you know you,
Liz, know more than anybody as acouple of therapists.
All the books, whether they'rewritten by Stan Tatkin or Terry
(12:44):
Real or Esther Perel, are aboutfinding ways to connect with
your partner.
So there are a lot of books onconnecting with your partner and
they're great.
I love those books.
There are some books onconnecting with your clients,
some books on connecting withyour children.
But what about the four ways weconnect, just in and of
themselves?
So if you can imagine fourconcentric circles, almost like
(13:04):
ripples in a pond at the nucleus, it would be how we connect
with ourself.
It's not narcissistic, it's notselfish.
How we connect with ourselfinforms all of the other
connections.
If I'm not connected withmyself, if I have a, I mean I'm
going to be really kind ofvisceral for a second.
But imagine somebody jammed athumbtack into my big toe before
(13:25):
this interview.
How well would I be connectingwith either of you?
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I would not be connected to myself.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
I'd be slightly distracted and I and I really
would not enjoy that experience.
I certainly would not be ableto access my best thoughts for
this podcast interview.
Similarly, if I you know, youremember those ads on TV where
they show somebody with nasalcongestion and they look like a
giant nose.
I don't know if you've everexperienced that, but I
(13:53):
certainly have where I just feellike I'm walking through life
as a giant nose.
I'm not connecting with myselfvery well.
All I'm feeling is like thisroadblock between you know
myself and my nose, and then itinforms my ability to connect
with somebody at the Walgreenscounter.
I mean, it's just not as good.
So how we connect with ourselfis essential and I would say it
(14:14):
comes down to authenticity.
It comes down to figuring outhow much sleep we've gotten, how
much of this stuff I'm holdingin my hand, also known as
hydration.
If we're profoundly dehydrated,we're not going to be very
connected with ourselves orothers.
So connecting with ourselves isparamount.
It's the first thing and thereare many ways to do so and I
(14:35):
really get into it and geek outto it, up to and including how
we use our time off.
Second level is how we connectwith others.
How am I connecting with thetwo of you?
How do I connect with my wife?
How do I connect with mychildren and my pets and my
clients?
Those are others.
(14:55):
How do I connect on the thirdlevel is how do I connect with
the world?
The world could include art,could include nature, could
include my ancestry and otherthings, ancestry and other
things.
And on the fourth circle, it'show do we connect with something
greater?
For religious people, it couldmean their relationship with God
.
For the most spectacularly, uh,orthodox atheist, uh, even they
(15:19):
would go on, since I'm talkingto Utah could go to Zion
national park and say wow, wow.
They would say wow, wow, theywould say wow.
They'd say that at the grandCanyon, they would say it during
the solar eclipse, and thatwould be indicative that they
are connecting, even if theydon't believe it comes from God.
It could be science, it couldbe just being awestruck.
(15:40):
We now have put the concept ofawe, a-w-e under a microscope
and have found that when we saywow, we are generally in an
awestruck state and we are insomething spiritual.
In 2017, for example, whenthere was the solar eclipse out
in Oregon, strangers werehugging.
Strangers because they stoppedthinking about themselves
(16:03):
because they were so awestruck.
And if you put their brainsunder micro you know
neuroimaging you'd see that thesame receptors that awe hits are
the same receptors thatpsilocybin, the psychoactive
element in magic mushrooms, hits.
So we can have awe and have thesame benefits, or some of the
(16:25):
same benefits, as taking anillegal substance that could
have, you know, could have someunwanted side effects.
But you get all the good stuffby experiencing awe.
And we can experience awe anyday, any time of day, just
watching pancakes being formedfrom a liquid to a solid could
be an awe-inspiring or justlooking at the fire in your
(16:47):
fireplace is awe-inspiring.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah, if we don't miss it, right, if we don't miss
it, if we start payingattention, I think we could be
odd all the time 100%, 100%.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Liz.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message.
And we're back, let's diveright in.
So and, liz, that's a greatpoint.
(17:19):
I mean that there's all kindsof of things now.
Today we live, I call it, in aday of distraction.
Adam, what are some of you, thebiggest distractions I guess
from?
From these connections?
What would you say?
Speaker 3 (17:31):
I'm gonna give a couple smoking guns.
Let's start with socialcomparison.
I roll up into my, into mydriveway with my brand new car,
bought it with cash.
My first time ever thisliterally happened, and in my
neighborhood I would say thatmany of the cars dwarf the
(17:51):
sticker price of my brand newcar by 2x to 3x.
I could feel diminished.
I could say, oh my gosh, howunfair or how inadequate am I to
have a lesser car, except Iknow that's social comparison
and I want to override thattendency.
I could feel bad about what Ihave because someone else has
something better.
So social comparison is a bigdistractor.
(18:13):
Another big distractor is FOMO.
Last night I bought tickets tosee a comedian this is no joke
and I realized I was tired and Ijust really wanted to be with
my wife and son.
I decided to just let it go andI decided consciously to
experience, instead of fear ofmissing out, which Patrick
(18:34):
McGinnis, the guy who createdFOMO, he describes us as FOMO
sapiens, which I think is prettyfunny.
Um, but I decided to engage inJomo, the joy of missing out,
and instead I doubled down onbeing with my, my wife and son.
I did miss out on seeing withmy, my wife and son.
I did miss out on seeing areally, really good comedian and
I'm a little bummed.
(18:55):
My sister had seen him thenight before and said you cannot
miss this.
It was Alex Moffitt of SaturdayNight Live.
This is a.
This was a big deal and I stilldecided to forego it.
I just really wanted to justexperience the joy of missing
out, and we can all do that.
I, if I had gone, I was just, Iwas just too tired.
I just really needed to chillin my little, in my little
(19:16):
sweats and fuzzy slippers.
Another one that we canexperience is this little.
You may have seen one of these.
There's this little blue lightthat I have in my pocket is
attached to a smartphone and itsays look at me, look at me.
You know there might besomebody standing right in front
of me, but it's still sayinglook at me because you just got
(19:36):
a text dopamine, dopamine.
Let's see who's I mean, let'ssee who's texting me.
That's so exciting, but there'sa person right here, right in
front of me or maybe I'm meantto, you know, actually take a
five minute nap, um, but no, no,no, uh, that phone.
It's Colin, and I can't wait tofind out what's behind the
mystery and what is this persongoing to say.
(19:59):
Uh, social media, oh my gosh.
And you know just how how manypeople feel great after a real
spelunk into the social mediareality.
Not too many, I would say.
I think that generally, on theother side of using social media
, it actually uses us.
So one of the things that I'vetold people because we do need a
(20:21):
control, alt, delete, we need asystem override.
When we're engaged in thesekind of defaults, we need to be
more conscious about what we'redoing and ask ourselves how do I
, how do I use social media butnot let it use me?
How do I create more andconsume less?
And what would be consistentwith creating?
(20:43):
Would it mean that I'mgardening?
Would it mean that I'm writing?
Would it mean that you know I'mdoing a project with my son?
Whatever it is?
But one thing we know for sureis when we create more and
consume less, we tend toexperience more flow.
And so to your point, dave, thedistractors are omnipresent
(21:03):
these days.
The news is a big one.
We can, I mean, everything feelsurgent.
General Eisenhower had thisbeautiful X and Y axis where he
said there is, there are urgentthings, and there are important
things, and oftentimes theurgent keeps pinging us and we
never get around to theimportant.
And so it's really importantthat we not that we that we
(21:23):
figure out how much of socialmedia do we want to use, how
much media do we want to exposeourself to, and to be really
conscientious about this?
Think of it as salt or sugar,like some, is good.
Too much may mess us up.
So and everybody has differentlevels, but I can tell you
(21:47):
seeing urgent, urgent, urgentcoming across the media all the
time Fear, fear, fear, anger,anger, anger.
It does bad things.
It causes us to have what'scalled you'll appreciate this
and I'm sure you're familiarwith this but the part of our
brain that handles theseemotions of anger and fear is
the amygdala, and over time, theamygdala can actually hijack a
(22:09):
part of our brain called theprefrontal cortex, which helps
us make decisions and plan anddo other things.
And when we're too much in fearwatching social media, watching
the news, et cetera, et cetera,et cetera, talking only about
how terrible things are we endup unwittingly hijacking a very
(22:29):
important part of our brains.
So these are all some of thedistractors.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Yeah, man, all kinds, and they're really limitless.
I would say especially they'relimitless.
All kinds of things that arereally begging for our attention
, right, our attention.
I like to say lack of attentionleads to loss of connection.
If you're not consciouslypaying attention to that person
or that relationship, thenyou'll naturally drift apart.
(22:56):
I love your idea, adam, ofhelping clients create a
connection formula, right, howdoes that look exactly?
And do you mind taking usthrough the steps of forming our
own connection formula?
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Absolutely so.
There's often a chasm betweenwhat we know and what we do.
There's often a chasm betweenwhat we love to do and what we
actually do, and I would askeverybody to just think back in
the last three months, how muchtime have you spent doing the
stuff that really brings you joy?
How much time have you spentwith people who really bring you
(23:33):
joy?
How much time have you spentdoing the things that actually
you think are kind of importantto like social media, but
actually maybe don't bring youjoy?
How many times have you wokenup on a Saturday morning boiling
some coffee, petting the dog,folding the laundry, watching
Netflix, answering texts andemails all simultaneously while
(23:56):
doing none of these things?
We all do that.
We go for what is easy ratherthan and oftentimes, the really
cool stuff.
Like going for a bike riderequires a little bit of you
know what I call activationenergy.
It may cost a little price ofadmission.
You got to pump up the tires,get out the bike rack, put it on
(24:17):
the car, make sure the chain'sall good, and then you go and
like where am I going to bike?
I mean out here in San Jose.
Usually it's going to require alittle bit of driving to get to
the spot.
I don't.
Maybe in Utah it might be alittle bit better where you can
just do it from your house, butgenerally speaking there's a
little bit of a cost, energy,and most time we want to do
(24:38):
what's easy.
So how do you find that formula?
You ask yourself what are yourbiggest feeders and how much are
you putting them into play andhow they relate to how you
connect yourself, others, theworld and something beyond.
Each of us has differentdirectives within.
Each of us has differentformulas for how we connect.
(25:01):
For example, my dad goes to theopera regularly.
I could go to the opera maybeonce a season, and it better be
a three hour or less opera.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
My dad can go to a six hour.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Wagnerian opera and be like oh you know, and for me
that's just a very expensiveplace to sleep.
So in my dad could go fivelifetimes without touching a dog
or a cat.
I can't go through a day, I, I,I need my animals.
That's part of my.
So we have different.
My dad and I, even though we'reso genetically similar, we have
(25:44):
vastly different connectionformulas in certain ways.
So the important thing is not totry to impose someone else's
connection formula onto yourself, but to really ask yourself
what brings me alive.
List of possible activities.
They aren't.
They are by no means theexhaustive list of activities to
do, but some activities thatmight jumpstart people to think
about.
What are some things that Ineed to be putting into play on
the regular for me to feelconnected in one of the four
areas, and each of us hasdifferent connection formulas.
(26:05):
I'm a foodie.
I got to go out regularly.
That would be very importantfor me, so I guess I'd put it
back to you.
What are, if it's okay, daveand Liz, what is one thing that
you know for sure on the otherside of doing it, even if it
requires some activation, energy, you're going to say to
yourself that was time wellspent.
(26:26):
I felt alive.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah.
For me it's taking a walk.
I mean, I walk more from myhead than my hips.
That's awesome.
It's paramount for me toconnect with myself first and
foremost, before I can connectwith my husband, others.
God you know, I got to get myown head straight.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
So you were right at the nucleus.
You needed to connect withyourself first.
Put on your own oxygen maskfirst, before you get it.
Yeah, got it, and that's, Ithink that.
How about you, dave?
Speaker 1 (26:56):
I would say you know, snowboarding, sometimes just
with my son there's, I get intothat state of flow and the day
goes by that fast and justcarving through powder, there's
it.
Just it's like this is so great, so I love that oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
And the poor listeners who don't live in utah
, which is probably most of us.
I am told that the utah powderis the best ever it is, yeah,
greatest snow on earth.
Yep, that's right, and itrequires activation energy,
doesn't it, dave does?
Speaker 1 (27:25):
yeah, some planning and okay, it's 40 minutes up the
canyon and and okay, I gottaget this that ready.
Uh, the plan the night before.
So yeah, it does.
It takes some, some workactually to to arrive at that
sense of flow, yeah and on theother side of doing it.
Speaker 3 (27:41):
How are you feeling?
Speaker 1 (27:42):
it is.
It is like it's it's hard toexplain like the rush, and I
mean it's adrenaline, yes, butit's just like I'm lost.
It's adrenaline, yes, but it'sjust like I'm lost in it.
It's kind of like connectingwith the world.
It is just the sense of life isgood right now, and all the
other stresses and things itjust melts away because I'm so
dialed in to hitting the slopes,it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
So I'm going to take a guess here that, liz, part of
your connection formula issomething you can do pretty much
every day of the year, and thatis go out on that walk, and
you're probably way moreavailable to the important
people in your life after you'redone.
And I'm guessing every snowseason for you, Dave.
There's a particular number oftimes that you better be hitting
the slopes, Otherwise, on theother side of the season, you're
going to say, damn, did notmeet my quota.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Yeah, and there have been those years that I'm like,
man, I was so busy and I am.
I'm really bummed, yeah, whenI'm not able to do it as much as
I want.
That's that, that is a, that isa portion of each of your
connection formulas.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
I love that idea, that connection formula idea.
Thanks Adam.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
How do we better connect?
How do we better connect withour families and our spouse?
Adam, you know, do you have afavorite story of an individual
client, maybe, who deepenedtheir connection at home because
of their own individual efforts, maybe?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
Unequivocally.
I believe that, whether it'sfamily or spouse, our 35 to
100,000 year old brains arewired to go on a quest.
When we were cave people, wewent on quests, whether it was
for food or foraging, whateverit was, and our brains haven't
changed pretty much at all in35,000, some even estimate
(29:20):
100,000 years.
So we want to do what oursurroundings have, but we can go
on quests today.
So what would be a good quest?
A good quest might be being atourist in your own area.
I'm betting that there aretouristic places.
Is that a word?
Touristic?
Whatever, I think it is thatthere are places of tourism not
(29:41):
far away and you could probablyget a Salt Lake City or a Utah
travel guide and find coolplaces to go and act like a
tourist in your own area.
I took my.
There was a father's day.
I took my family.
My wife's lived in SanFrancisco well over a decade.
I lived San Francisco adjacentfor at least as long and I was
(30:05):
there all the time and we bothknow the city inside out.
For a father's day, I took myfamily on a gray line tour of
san francisco.
So here we are, basically like,where are you from?
You know, just down the street.
Um, uh, we're with people fromomaha and germany and texas and
they're just like going crazyover this great city and my wife
(30:27):
and I learned more about ourcity on that Grayline tour
through the eyes of tourists.
And if there is, you know, ifthere's something called Atlas
Obscura?
It's a website that has allthese weird, weird local stuff
things that you can do Like youknow so-and-so had.
You know, saw ghosts over hereand you just go there with your
(30:48):
family ghosts over here and youjust go there with your family,
or another one that I reallylove, and it can be done in
dyads, like a father and son ora daughter and mom, or however
you want to do it, or all fourof you go on a quest for four
weeks trying to find the best,I'm just going to say random
food burger could be burger, itcould be ramen, could be donut,
whatever you want to do and forfour weeks in a row, you come up
(31:10):
with like a rubric, you come upwith like a grading system for
the burger place let's go with.
You know what's the ambiencelike, what is the quality of the
meat, how's the bun, how's theFrench fries, how's the quality
of the waitstaff and everybodyrates them.
(31:33):
This is another very simplequest, not expensive, but the
trans, the conversations thattranspire when you're having fun
today together.
I don't remember which ancientGreeks said it, I mean it would
have been Plato or Socrates, uh,could have been Aristotle, who
said that they'll know more froman hour of playing with someone
than they'll know for my yearof talking.
And so when we're playingtogether, we're on a quest,
(31:55):
we're experiencing somethingnovel.
There's also something veryinteresting too when we do
something novel, we see thepeople who we know really well
through new eyes.
Um, and there are even somestudies that suggest that when
couples do that, the, the, wecan find each other a little
more attractive.
I remember asking Pat Love,who's the author of Hot Monogamy
(32:16):
, for her one tip.
She said do something noveltogether.
And I would say that goesbeyond just the couple.
It would be for the family andand the individual right.
Oh for sure.
And the individual.
And I mean mean hittingsomething new and finding new
oceans within ourselves.
I remember when I was 10 yearsold my dad is I, I mentioned
(32:38):
he's opera man and he didn'tlike.
He didn't like baseball, hedidn't like live sports.
He thought it was that wasstupid, a waste of time.
10 years old, I take him to hisI'm not making this up 10 years
old, I take him to his firstbaseball game and it took him
nine innings to fall madly inlove with baseball and he's a
rabid Giants fan and he neverwould have thought that would
(33:00):
have happened.
Then I have my own children.
They're super into basketball.
I was baseball football all dayand then we start watching the
Golden State Warriors togetherand there's nothing I would
rather do with my two boys andgo to chase and watch some
golden state warriors live.
It's the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I love that.
I love that.
Um, adam, what about friends?
Right?
Sometimes have a more difficulttime.
You gave a TEDx, uh, talking onthe on this topic, give us some
.
I mean, what are the mainprinciples right To share with
us about maintaining friendships, those connections?
Speaker 3 (33:37):
For sure.
So let's imagine somebody whowas born in Ohio, went to
college on the East Coast, gottheir first job in Texas and
then moved to the Bay Area.
This happens all the time in myoffice and each of those places
they had friends and they sworethey'd stay in touch.
You know, when they wereleaving, like I'm definitely
staying in touch with you, andthey stay in touch for the first
month or so and then thingsbegin to dwindle and we need
(34:01):
friends.
As I mentioned, loneliness is ahorrible thing and, as Esther
Perel reminds us, she's one ofthe great couple therapists.
She said we used to live invillages where we had tons of
people for tons of differentthings.
We had a, you know, a hikingbuddy, a drinking buddy, a
building buddy, a fishing buddy,you know a knitting buddy, a
whatever buddy, and now weexpect our spouse to play all of
(34:22):
the roles of all the buddiesand the whole village is
basically on the spouse'sshoulders.
If I was to try to take my wifeto a Golden State Warriors game
, she would not be stoked.
I can't expect her to join mefor that.
That's not her thing and forsure.
Like going to hardly strictlybluegrass in Golden Gate Park,
(34:42):
not my thing.
She loves it.
So one of the things thathappens when we are kind of
forced, kind of that kind ofsquare peg in a round hole, we
end up doing the thing to be agood spouse, Except for the fact
that we end up consenting andresenting and we don't have a
good time.
It's like damn, this is what Idid for my Sunday.
(35:04):
That was not awesome.
But friends, friends are likesuperheroes.
They all have different roles.
Uh, but friends, friends arelike superheroes.
They all have different roles.
Some of our friends, you know,help us problem solve or geek
out with us to technology.
Some of our friends we can talkabout real relationship stuff.
Some of our friends are theguys we go see sports with or
play cards with, and somefriends have multiple roles, Um,
(35:26):
but I like at leastappreciating them as superheroes
, with kind of a letteremblazoned on their chest like
this is the person who I do thiswith and I don't expect my
sports buddy to be like my psychbuddy, Like he's not the guy I
necessarily go for, the touchy,feely stuff.
Maybe he is, Maybe he's twofer,but oftentimes they're not and
(35:47):
I don't discount the friendship.
I appreciate what role each ofthem plays.
So I'm really a big fan offriendship.
I think that marriages do muchbetter when each member of the
couple has friends.
Paul Rudd was in a movie calledI Love you man, where he's
marrying Rashida Jones and hehas no friends, no best men.
(36:08):
She's got like six bridesmaidshe's got nothing.
Bridesmaids he's got nothing.
And he suddenly realizes oh myGod, I gotta get with some
friends.
And it's one of my favoritemovies of all time.
There's something so beautifulabout when men are willing to
just go there and get a littlemore vulnerable, maybe talk a
little bit more than just aboutsports, tech and politics, which
(36:31):
are very easy topics.
Sports, tech and politics Sure,those are fine to talk about
for a minute.
But what about what's reallygoing on in our lives?
Can we go there?
And obviously that's a slowprogression.
You just kind of bid up and seeif the relationship can handle
it.
Bid up and see if therelationship can handle it.
(36:54):
But I am a real advocate of menbeing able to rely on men as as
as bros and buds, and certainlyfor women to do the same.
So I think that marriages willbe profoundly improved.
Last thought on this I rememberwhen I met my wife.
She was my nearly girlfriend.
(37:14):
She was the person I was dating.
But when I met her friends andI realized they were high
quality people, she haddescribed them perfectly and I
also knew that these peoplewould be the people she would go
to when she needed advice aboutus Interesting.
And I knew those were smart,kind, heartful people.
(37:36):
And the next day I asked her togo steady.
I was like I know it soundsdorky for like a 30-year-old I
was 34 at the time but I waslike I really want us to be
exclusive and it was not longafter, but seeing her friends
mattered to me.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
That's interesting.
That's so wise, so wise of you.
Oh, thanks, right, really.
So that's such a great point, Ithink, for any of us, those who
are dating and great, and mateis what a great thing.
We talk about meeting theirfamily, but also about those
that they choose to spend timewith.
What about the circle offriends?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
We'll be right back after this brief message.
And we're back, let's diveright in and what about work?
Speaker 2 (38:29):
adam, the average person you say will spend what?
90 000 of their lives at work.
Wow, I was connection work.
How can they really go hand inhand, my friend?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
so there are a few ways.
First of all, some people maynot feel connected to work.
Some people have the luxury ofbeing able to step out and try
something else, and if they wantto do that, you know, one of
the things I recommend doing isget as much information as
possible.
Find out what your values are.
Find out today's former idea ofsnowboarding.
You talked about flow.
Flow is that beautiful,delicious, immersive space where
(39:03):
eight hours of doing a thingfeels like three and you're like
what, where did the time go?
Um, we can experience that atwork.
Now.
Some of us don't have theopportunity to change the job,
so, regardless, what I would askpeople to do is to ask
themselves what vocationalmuscle do they want to improve
(39:25):
while they are at work, and it'sprobably from something you
value.
Maybe it's analytical skills,maybe it's interpersonal skills,
maybe it's team building skills, maybe it's managerial skills.
Maybe you're not at the idealjob, but maybe you can find
something you can geek out toand get better at, while doing
(39:45):
your job and doing well for thecompany and also improving
yourself at the same time andlosing yourself to that flow.
There are certain ways of doingthis.
There's a, an online freeinventory called the values in
action via characterorg yeah, Ilove that one and they show 24
(40:06):
validated strengths.
I remember when I was relegatedto bank teller I was 24 years
old, I'd just come back fromJapan.
I was super bummed about beinga bank teller because people
treated me like what I called ameat based ATM.
They're like give me a hundreddollars for this check and
deposit this, and they wouldhardly even look at me and I was
like, hey, there's a personhere.
(40:27):
Um, at the time I was readingman's search for meaning by
Victor Frankel, that great bookand I was thinking like, how do
I make this meaningful?
And I was like this was beforethe VIA existed.
And I was like, huh, I see 120people a day.
I want to be a psychologist.
I want to be able to be able totalk to as many different types
of people as possible.
This could be like my gym like,where I see 120 people.
(40:49):
I make 119 of them smile, if notlaugh, and balance at the end
of the day.
I'm seeing you know soccer moms.
I'm seeing lawyers.
I'm seeing construction workers, people fresh off the boat from
another country, people withvarying degrees of of, of of
riches, all the way to peoplewho are very, very much what we
(41:12):
would consider financially.
Or can I make 119 of them smile, if not laugh?
And the answer was yes, I could.
And it became one of the mostimportant jobs I've ever had
because it became my trainingground.
I did well by the company, butI also did well by me, and my
eight hour shifts began to feellike two hour shifts, like they
(41:34):
went by quick, because I wasexperiencing that flow, that
immersiveness, that challengeand meaning.
And so we can all do that atour jobs.
Even if we don't love our jobsand can't leave our jobs, we can
probably find an element, findsomething, something, and one of
the other ways I could describeit is take your dot-com job and
(41:56):
see it as a dot-edu job.
Yes, you're making money forthe company, but you're also
learning job.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yes, you're making money for the company but you're
also learning Good.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
I love it.
That's great, adam.
Before we let you go, we liketo ask all of our guests a
couple of questions when theycome on our show.
And the first question, inhonor of the name of our podcast
Stronger Marriage Connection iswhat do you believe is the key?
Is there a key or keys to astronger marriage connection?
Speaker 3 (42:23):
There are a lot of people, when they're dating I'm
just going to be really, reallycrass and up front tend to go
from the bottom up.
They tend to when we thinkabout our, our organs that are
involved in the dating process.
Oftentimes they start south andmove northward in the dating
(42:45):
process.
Oftentimes they start South andmove Northward.
Um, I, I'm thinking of, uh, ofcourse, uh, the things the
procreation tools below, uh,heart and then head.
I'm a big fan of starting withthe head.
Does this make sense?
Are we actually a good match,using the brain as an assessment
tool to predict?
Do we fight well?
Are we on the same team?
(43:07):
How quickly do we recoup aftera bit of a, of a, of a of things
going sideways?
Um, are our values aligned, ourhopes aligned?
Do we want to have?
Do we have similar philosophiesof raising children?
Do we, do we both, wantchildren?
How many children do we want torun our own?
Where do we want to live?
(43:27):
How supportive are we whenthings go well and when things
go very badly?
So, start with the head is myprime, and then go down to the
heart and then, of course, theprocreation tool, and then the
stomach is always there.
The stomach is alwaysmonitoring, asking huh, how's
this feeling in my gut?
(43:48):
But I think if we can go withthat sequence head down and all
have to have a green light, wewant green lights from all of
the organs, but if we couldstart with a head, I think that
would make a lot of great sense.
And that was what I finally didbefore I met my wife and 22
(44:09):
years in, we are a very loving,efficient system as well.
So the word efficient may soundunsexy, but oh, I get it.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Yeah, isn't that a great word?
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Yeah but no, I like I get it yeah isn't that a great
word?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
yeah, yeah, I think we all get that.
It's a lot of wasted time to toargue and bicker and fight,
right, it's not efficient.
Yeah, right, is it part of that?
Is that what you're part ofthat's?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
exactly what I'm talking about I get it and do we
?
do we also agree?
Do we?
I mean some, some couples neverget anything passed through
congress because they're stilltrying to figure out where their
kid are going to go to school,because one of them wants public
school, One of them wantsprivate school.
My wife and I have been veryefficient, whether it's been
choosing pets, choosing,choosing schools, choosing which
(44:54):
house to live, in choosing howwe allocate our money.
Money allocation, I mean if, ifmy office was a family feud
game.
Our top question is, you know,love and sex, then comes money
and then comes the children.
There are so many.
If we can agree on the bigs andit doesn't take long for us to
(45:15):
come to consensus, that'sefficient.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Nicely done.
Yeah, when can we all find outmore about you, Adam, your
practice and your book?
Super psyched, and we'll besure to link those to our show
notes.
Where do we go, my friend?
Speaker 3 (45:28):
I'm so honored.
First of all, the book isavailable at Amazon and Barnes
and Noble.
I'm available for keynotes andfor all types of work.
I do a lot of corporate workwork.
I do a lot of corporate work,dr Adam Dorseycom
D-R-A-D-A-M-D-O-R-S-A-Y Forthose in California.
I am licensed in the state ofCalifornia to provide
(45:49):
psychotherapy here.
Let's see my TEDx talks.
I've got two of them availableon YouTube one on men and
emotions, the other onfriendship and adulthood.
My podcast, which was recentlya Sharecare award-winning
podcast it's hitting its 250thepisode tomorrow timestamp and
(46:09):
so it's been really fun.
I've had people like Steve Kerron from the Golden State
Warriors and Temple Grandin andPhil Zimbardo may his memory be
a blessing Very interestingfolks, so it's been a really fun
time to have Super Psych, thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
Yeah, the same name, super Psych.
Speaker 3 (46:26):
Yeah, good for you, yeah same name, decided to keep
the branding consistent, and Ithink those are the places where
they find me.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
Love it, adam, excuse me, and we'll again.
Like Liz said, we'll put allthose in our show notes for our
listeners so you can go thereand find out more about Adam and
all he offers.
Adam, hey, before we let you go, what's your takeaway of the
day?
We call it a take-home messagethat you hope our listeners will
remember from today.
Speaker 3 (46:52):
Well, one of the takeaways is I've just been
watching you and Liz and the twoof you are a very efficient
system.
The two of you work well.
I know that you're not romanticpartners, you're friends, but I
think I remember when I wasstudying group therapy in my
master's program, dr JerryShapiro said choose your
(47:15):
co-leader wisely the way youwould choose a spouse.
They're not your spouse, butchoose them with the same kinds
of intelligence.
And I think my takeaway islisten, listeners.
Listen to how Dave and Lizshare, listen to how the two of
them coordinate, have eachother's back, almost like it's a
(47:36):
buddy cop film.
This is the two of you areexemplars of what a good
relationship means, to borrowfrom Stan Tatkin, how the two of
you are in each other's care.
So I felt really good being onyour podcast because the two of
you are such a strong duo.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, that is very kind.
Yeah, and I think we do Right,liz.
We get along great, liz.
What about you?
What's your takeaway of the day?
Speaker 2 (48:06):
It is really an honor doing this and having you, adam
, join us, and Dave, it's justbeen a thrill.
You know I love these fourdifferent ways of connection,
and self especially.
We like to say here aroundStronger, merge, connect,
marriage connection.
Out of that, a strong.
We is made up of two strong andhealthy me's and I just don't
(48:27):
think that we can emphasize thatenough.
I see in couples so easy it's,it's um, we get wrapped up in
pointing the finger to the otherperson where, very much so, you
know, I could ruin a perfectlygood day all by myself, just me,
myself and I, with no buy-infrom my husband and I could also
send this lovely evening oninto the next new morning.
(48:49):
Just me, myself and I, withoutany buy-in from Ben.
We're just.
We're that powerful as partners, so I really love that.
It starts with self.
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Totally, yeah.
Yes, it's interesting.
Before the whole Rainy Moffittthing, I was just kind of I
don't think I had a greatnight's sleep and I just wasn't
at my best and my wife had thekindness to just kind of reflect
back to me like, dude, you'retalking in a way that's not
hitting, and we had thatcoordination and I trusted her
enough to say, oh my God, I getit her enough to say oh my God,
(49:24):
I get it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, let me go get a workout andlet me come back to you Um, and
that's what I did Um, and I was, I was, I was better for it.
but suffice it to say, yeah,like we can.
We have to give ourselves graceand in each other grace, and
engage with that thing that theycall self-compassion which we
didn't even get into, but it'ssuch an important topic and to
give others compassion.
Two great me's create a greatwe, and one of the things is
(49:47):
yeah, it's the buddy cop film.
Like, we trust each otherenough so that if the other
person says you're a little offtoday, you know it's like you're
.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
But I've got you right.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Yeah, and it doesn't define you.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yeah, I'd love to know what your gold nugget is
going to stay with you after ourvisit today with Dr Adam Dorsey
.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, this, sincerely , has been one of my favorite
episodes.
I love this topic.
I love what I just can actuallyconnect with with everything
that you're you're talking about.
Maybe it's the I love the fourareas as well.
To me, it maybe is thedistractions.
Right, there's so much thatpeople are more important than
problems.
Right?
I've been preaching that to mykids and audiences it's people.
(50:30):
It's people that really matterwhen all is said and done.
It's relationships, it's theseconnections, and so, whatever
distractions our listeners mayhave, take a pause and say, okay
, what really matters there's somany things competing for our
time, for our attention anddistractions, and it could be
our own moods, you know.
Take a pause and say, okay,yeah, it's really.
(50:53):
Connections is really one ofour core needs and, in my mind,
one of the things that mattersmost.
I know my connections andrelationships matter more than
almost anything else.
Right, in this, in this world,it's these, these connections.
So thank you so much for the,for the wonderful information
and the reminders, these littleprinciples and practices that we
can all do to to have betterconnections.
(51:14):
Oh, thanks, dave.
Speaker 3 (51:16):
So much fun to be with you.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
All right, friends, that does it for us.
We will see you again onanother episode of Stronger
Marriage Connection.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
And remember it's the small and simple things that
create a stronger marriageconnection.
Take good care now.
Speaker 1 (51:34):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram at
(51:55):
Stronger Marriage Life andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(52:16):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the Utahmarriage commission at Utah
state university.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah stateuniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
(52:40):
of the Utah marriage commission.
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