September 15, 2025 • 44 mins
Conscious Relationship Coach Annmarie Chereso shares powerful insights on transforming conflict into deeper connection through mindfulness, vulnerability, and heart-centered awareness. She reveals how asking yourself "Where am I?" can identify whether fear or trust is driving your relationship patterns.
• Conflict isn't a problem but a portal to deeper awareness and connection
• Our relationship to conflict is conditioned by childhood experiences
• The question "Where am I?" helps identify if we're operating from fear or trust
• When contracted (even 1%), we're in protection mode and unavailable for authentic connection
• Accepting our humanity means acknowledging we get scared, especially in relationships
• The check-in process integrates mind, body, and heart intelligence
• Breaking generational patterns requires awareness and acceptance without judgment
• Connection with others begins with connecting to yourself first
• Being willing to "go first" with vulnerability transforms relationship dynamics
• Accepting your own humanity and your partner's humanity is key to stronger connection
For free resources including the check-in process Annmarie mentioned, visit annmariechereso.com
Visit our site for FREE relationship resources and regular giveaways:
Strongermarriage.org
Podcast.stongermarriage.org
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StrongerMarriageLife
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@strongermarriagelife
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/strongermarriagelife/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/strongermarriage/
Facebook Marriage Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/770019130329579
Dr. Dave Schramm:
Dr. Liz Hale:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
If you're in a romantic relationship, then you
know that conflict is inevitable.
On today's episode, consciousRelationship Coach Anne-Marie
Churraso joins us and we divedeep into mindfulness,
vulnerability and getting ourhearts right.
She even shares a simple, shortquestion that can reveal
whether fear or trust is drivingthe conflict in our
(00:25):
relationships.
You'll learn how to shift yourmindset, pay attention to the
present moment and take radicalresponsibility.
Anne-marie Churso is aconscious relationship coach,
speaker and author of theirnumber one international
bestseller, the PerfectlyImperfect Family.
With over 20 years ofexperience, she helps couples
break free from generationalpatterns, navigate conflict with
(00:48):
clarity and reconnect withtheir true selves.
Blending deep spiritual insightwith practical tools,
anne-marie guides women to letgo of conditioned beliefs,
embody love and create empowered, fulfilling relationships.
Her playful, heart-centeredapproach makes her a trusted
ally for women seeking greaterpeace, trust and freedom in
(01:09):
their lives.
She lives in Chicago with herhusband and their beautifully
blended family of nine, livingwhat she teaches love, presence
and conscious connection.
We hope you enjoy the show.
You enjoy the show.
(01:29):
Hey friends, welcome to anotherepisode of the Stronger
Marriage Connection podcast.
I'm Dr Dave here at Utah StateUniversity, alongside Dr Liz
Hill, our therapist and clinicalpsychologist.
We're aiming to bring you thevery best that we have in
research and resources, alongwith a few tips and tools to
help you create the marriage ofyour dreams.
All right, liz.
What if conflicts in yourmarriage could actually become
(01:50):
doorways to deeper intimacy andconnection?
I believe it.
I believe it.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I know seriously and it can happen.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So excited for our guest today.
Conscious Relationship Coach,Anne-Marie Charesto has spent
two decades helping peopletransform their relationships
using simple, science-backedmethods that turn drama into
trust and disconnection intolove.
Welcome to the show, Anne-Marie.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be with youguys.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
We're thrilled to have you join us, Kate Emery, as
I was reading a little bit moreabout you, you've learned from
some great minds out there whenit comes to positivity and
mindfulness, even conflict nameslike John Kabat-Zinn, Thich
Nhat Hanh, Martha Beck.
Before we dive into ourdiscussion, can you share with
us just a bit about you and yourbackground?
Tell us a little bit about yourstory and kind of your big
(02:40):
picture purpose?
Why do you do this?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, well, thanks for asking and thanks for having
me Big picture.
So I was six weeks pregnantwith my third child, my marriage
started to crumble, lifestarted falling apart.
When I was eight monthspregnant, my husband moved out
and my life took like a completeleft turn and it sent me into a
(03:09):
downward spiral, like, well,you know, I was really in it for
a long, long time and um couldnot figure out my way out and I
did all the things you know liketried to figure out how to make
things better and back to what,the way I thought they should
be Right.
(03:29):
And life had different plansfor me and it took me on this
journey which started withmindfulness, and I started
learning about meditation andmindfulness and I had been a
yogi for many, many years and Ihad been dipping into
mindfulness and I'd been dippinginto meditation for close to
almost a decade, but I didn'tquite fully get it.
(03:53):
So my entry into all this workwas really through that lens of
deep, deep practice inmindfulness and meditation.
And and then that journey, likeyou know, sort of a leaf on the
river or in the wind, it justkept taking me to these places
and I kept saying yes andfollowing the lead, and it kept
(04:14):
opening me up to more and moreawareness.
I started becoming more and moreself-aware, or what I would
call today conscious, and as Ikept evolving or opening up, I
was thinking wait a minute, whydidn't anyone tell me this a
long time ago?
(04:34):
This is really valuable stuff,and I decided that I really
wanted to share what I waslearning with others, and I
started by teaching and talkingabout mindfulness in schools
with preschoolers and littlekids.
And then it kind of grew and Iworked with older kids and
(04:56):
started working with collegeanywhere from preschool to
college age and then it keptmorphing.
I started working with teachersand then I started working with
parents and it just keptgrowing.
And here I am today.
I continue to grow and evolveand learn and I really really
feel honored to be able to sharewhat has worked and resonated
(05:19):
for me in my life with others.
I think it's probably one ofthe greatest honors of my life.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Wow, I love this idea of consciousness.
Do you have a quick tip, aquick consciousness way to be,
or just even identify Emory inthe moment, whether I'm being
conscious or not.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, when I first started learning about
meditation and mindfulness, Ilearned from the greats, you
know, thich Nhat Hanh.
I got to attend a fullweek-long retreat with him and
other educators, john Kabat-Zinn, who's sort of the father of
you know mindfulness here in theStates, and you know I was like
what is the difference betweenmindfulness, you know, and
(06:03):
meditation?
And I couldn't get it.
And finally, it's one of thosethings you don't get it.
Until you get it, you can talkabout it all you want, but
embodying it.
And so when I really got it, itwas like consciousness or
mindfulness.
What I would say they'resynonymous with one another is
being here now in anon-judgmental way.
(06:28):
So it's really just like beingwith.
What is like?
For instance, I'm sort ofsitting in my office, my toes
are cold.
Anyone listening could do thisright now.
You just get really present bybringing your attention and
awareness to the body, becausewe're human beings here on this
planet, right?
So, feeling your fingertips,feeling your toes, like I can
(06:51):
feel a little tightness in myjaw, which always happens when
I'm sort of in these kinds ofconversations.
My belly is a little tight, youknow.
I can notice some clenching inmy body and just being just
noticing that, without judgingit, without assigning it, like
well, I'm, my fingers are coldbecause I'm not wearing socks or
(07:13):
it's air conditioned, you know,just just noticing
non-judgmentally.
That is really what presencereally is, not letting the
judgments, the identificationget in the way.
So it's an is-ness, it's a whatyou say.
What was the last word?
I used the word is-ness.
(07:36):
I'm not sure if that's in therebel dictionary or not, but
it's just being here fully.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Now I can see what a gift that would give to our
relationships, right.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And it's hard.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And it's hard.
Yeah, you had me until youstarted to say nonjudgmental and
I was like, oh, that adds to itAll right.
Well, many of us were raised, Ithink, to believe that going
back to conflict, that conflictis something bad or scary, it's
wrong, it means maybe we're withthe wrong person, but we love
(08:12):
that.
You say conflict isn't a signof failure, but it's an
invitation, and an invitation togrow at that.
How do you help women inparticular shift their mindset,
anne-marie, to view conflict asactually an opportunity for
growth and even deeperconnection?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, this thing about a conflict being a problem
is really like a belief systemthat we've all been conditioned
into.
You know, conditioned into andI would invite anyone listening
in like, think about yourchildhood and what conflict was
like when you were a kid and howthe adults around you behaved
(08:53):
around it, because that is howyou developed your ideas about
what conflict means.
And you know, I was talking toa client yesterday and he was
discussing his relationship toconflict on his father's side
versus his client relationshipto conflict on his mother's side
.
Big conflicts would happen tothe adults and they wouldn't
(09:14):
engage the kids and it wouldjust sort of be happening but
there would be no residualimpact on the kids versus the
opposite and his mother's family.
It would sort of fall onto thekids and there'd be lots of
drama and you know.
And so he said he said you know, in this family system conflict
was fine.
I just didn't have a problemwith it.
And then in this family systemit was really different and it
(09:36):
caused a lot of stress andanxiety.
But the way that I've learned,you know, so I fall into that
category.
When I grew up in a family,conflict was a problem.
You know, we want to stop it.
We don't want, you know,anything uncomfortable is
something we want to push away.
And so when I was going throughmy divorce and all these things
(09:56):
and I was developing all thesestories about these conflicts, I
was in relationship to all ofit from a place of resistance,
pushing it away.
This is bad, this is wrong, wedon't want it.
And slowly, when I started topeel back the onion, I was like,
whoa, conflict is actually aportal to deeper layers of
awareness.
(10:17):
For me, it's become a realinvitation to see where is it
that my heart is closed versusmy heart is open?
Because, you know, we'retalking about relationships here
and the only way to createstrong connections in
relationships is to be connectedthrough the heart.
In my opinion Now I know I'vesaid this really blanket
(10:37):
statement the only way but it'sthe only way I have come to find
authentic connection reallyhappens when my heart is fully
open and I am fully available togive and receive from that
heart centered place.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I love that, love that idea Going back to that
isness again, huh yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Mm, hmm, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I love this idea and, marie, this, this open heart,
reminds me of a good friend,wally Goddard.
He likes to say that irritationis an invitation.
When we feel irritated, it's aninvitation for introspection,
an invitation for understandingor compassion or perspective
taking to slow down when we feelirritated.
(11:22):
So I love that.
And then he talks about gettingour hearts right.
So, uh, so much of this isreally at the heart of of
conflict.
You, you talk about onequestion that can reveal whether
fear or trust is driving theconflict in our relationships.
Can you share?
I'm dying to hear what thatquestion is and how our
(11:42):
listeners can use it the nexttime they're in the middle of an
argument with their partner.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, it's a simple question, but it's a complex.
Well, it's an involved process.
So the question is where am I?
And the question helps us,helps us humans kind of identify
(12:10):
am I in a contracted state,meaning, is my heart closed or
am I in an open-hearted state?
Is my heart open?
So the question helps usidentify are we in fear when I'm
contracted?
Any, if I'm 1% contracted, thatmeans I'm in fear.
I'm protecting against.
If I'm 1% contracted, that meansI'm in fear, I'm protecting
against something that means myheart is closed, even just 1%,
(12:32):
which means that our limbicbrain is going to be paying
attention to what it needs toprotect.
For what's the threat?
So, any of our attention or ourawareness, unconsciously right,
because most of us areoperating on an unconscious
level.
The limbic brain is always backthere, operating, looking for
(12:52):
threats, looking for threats,looking for threats.
And you're going to find thembecause there are threats.
We just look around the world,turn on the news, go through
your Instagram feed, look youremail.
You are being peppered withthreats all day long.
So most of us are walking aroundslightly contracted, trying to
protect ourselves.
(13:13):
So if you can start to becomemore consciously aware of when
you're in those contractedstates, you can then take
responsibility for not beingavailable for real, authentic
connection, because you cannotauthentically connect to another
(13:34):
human being if you're focusedon protecting yourself, and
there's nothing like.
The second thing I want to sayabout this is there's nothing
wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong withbeing in a threatened state.
It's human.
We have really created amessage that you know we should
always be positive and we shouldalways be open and we should
(13:56):
always be all these things thatare not actually possible.
We have to accept our humanity,which is we're scared.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
We're scared a lot of the time, yeah, especially in
our relationships, when you bothsay, yeah, I don't.
I don't think we're ever morevulnerable than we are in those
intimate relationships.
I love this, we, we, we lovehow you integrate the mind body,
heart connection andrelationships, emery.
And no one's really busier, Iwould probably dare say, than a
(14:28):
woman.
It seems like who is a wife, amother, a career person?
What does the simple dailypractice actually look like of
integrating mind, body, heartwhen you are in so many
different places, so manydemands upon you?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah, this is a really good question.
I offer a free gift to myaudience called the check-in
process, and it's a process thatI was taught many, many years
ago and it's so stupid, sillythat it almost seems ridiculous
to do, but I use it like I satdown before this call and I use
(15:08):
this process.
My husband and I use it beforewe have any kind of important
conversations, I use it beforeI'm meeting with clients, I use
it with my clients and thecheck-in process is something
just like you said, liz.
It integrates mind, body,spirit.
So we check in with all threecenters of intelligence.
(15:29):
Because you both know we're veryhead-based in our culture.
We spend a lot of time withthis baby up here and our brain
and our mind.
We forget about our body, weforget about our heart and we
forget about our gut.
So this check-in practicestills you for a moment and
invites you into a moment ofpresence where you're checking
(15:50):
in, noticing, very similar tothe practice I talked about a
few minutes ago, like what'shere now, what do I feel in my
body, what do I feel in my gut,what is my heart telling me and
what is my head telling me, andcan I get into alignment with
all three of those things.
So the check-in practice is, Ithink, a fundamental practice
(16:13):
for any of us, particularly busymoms, because there's so much
happening in those lives.
We're juggling, juggling,juggling.
So much we're very used tooverriding our own experience in
service of nurturing others.
And I mean, of course it'shappening to men too.
(16:33):
It's not universal for justwomen, but you did ask about
women, so I wanted to addressthat.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Nice.
I appreciate that We'll beright back after this brief
message.
And we're back, let's diveright in.
Henry, after 20 years you'vebeen at this for quite a while
(17:03):
After 20 years plus of coaching,what patterns, I'm curious, do
you see in marriages wherecouples successfully turn
conflict into connection versusthose who just keep staying
stuck in those same fights?
Those same patterns, day afterday, year after year, over and
over.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
This is really simple and I'm going to just kind of
repeat what we just talked abouta few minutes ago and I want to
say I'm saying this from anincredibly nonjudgmental place.
It's just like a pragmaticexplanation of what happens.
But the simple answer is, whenwe are trapped in that fear
(17:47):
place and we are unwilling toopen our heart, that's how we
create drama and we keep kickingaround those patterns, those
patterns, those egoic patternsthat are coming from that closed
heart, that fear-based place.
Those patterns are justdesigned to make us feel safe.
It's a false sense of safety,but somehow in childhood we
(18:10):
develop those patterns and they,they, they like created some
temporary relief.
They seem to work for a minuteor two and it works, gets us,
you know, like an inch closer towhere we want to be, and then
the same pattern will kick upagain because we haven't really
resolved it at the core.
(18:37):
Seen really transform are thosethat are really deeply willing
to go into their vulnerabilityand open their heart when
they're incredibly scared, whenthey're feeling very threatened.
So it's like walking throughthe fire and then trusting that
they're going to be held on theother side of that.
When you know the mostexperience I or the most
successful experiences I havewith clients and I want to say,
(18:59):
with my own marriage and my ownrelationships, is when I'm
willing to go first, when I'mwilling to be the most
vulnerable person in the room,when I'm willing to let down all
my defenses and I would saythat's the hardest practice we
find ourselves doing.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Is to go first as the hardest, or to be vulnerable or
both.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Both.
I'm sure you've been therebefore where you feel that
vulnerability.
This is a really great example.
It's not related specificallyto an interpersonal relationship
, but you know we hold ouremotions back all the time in
service of you know, taking careof others, of you know what's
appropriate or what's notappropriate.
(19:44):
And we've learned to bite ouremotions back.
And I remember when my daughterwas in seventh or eighth grade,
I had a school meeting with oneof her teachers who I adored and
who supported my daughterthrough a really rough time, and
there was just a lot ofgratitude there and we were in a
meeting and she was sharingsome of her honest opinions
(20:06):
about my daughter which, by theway, some people would say were
not very favorable, and I wasgrateful because she was being
honest and I didn't find them tobe unfavorable, I just found
them to be truthful.
Anyway, brought emotion forwardbecause I was so grateful to
her willingness to be so honestwith me and I could feel her
(20:29):
love and her care for mydaughter, like so many teachers
in the world, and I gotemotional in the meeting.
Now remember.
So tears started to come and Iremember thinking, oh, don't do
this, anne-marie, don't do this,she's not going to know how to
be with this right, I'm beingincredibly vulnerable.
Normally we would hold back ouremotion, we bite back, we
wouldn't show that emotionbecause you know it's only
(20:52):
appropriate in certainconditions Our therapist's
office and you know a few otherplaces.
So because I'm deeply devotedto feeling my feelings all the
way through, being vulnerableand all of this, I allowed it to
move through and, of course,she got really uncomfortable.
She's like it's okay, it's okayand I'm like no, no, no, I'm
actually okay.
And what that reminded me ishow uncomfortable and how
(21:17):
ill-equipped we are to hold eachother in our vulnerability.
So why don't we get vulnerablewith each other?
Because our partners haven'tlearned how to hold our
vulnerability, particularly men.
Men don't know how to holdwomen because men haven't been
taught how to hold their ownemotions, much less hold ours.
So it gets real scary, realfast.
(21:38):
So I think being willing toreally get vulnerable, let your
emotions flow as they are andnot let someone else's reaction
impact that or shut your heartdown, is incredibly brave.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, Because it's risky.
Right, it's risky, it's almostborderline dangerous.
Chad Ford calls it dangerouslove, right, it's like, ah,
uncomfortable to you know.
Let this vulnerable side of meout.
We're not taught.
We're taught to be tough andjust take it and try to solve
and instead like be yeah, beopen.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, it's very, very .
I love the example of just ateacher saying oh no, no, no,
don't you know?
Kind of like don't cry thosetears back in Cause I don't know
what to do with them or Ididn't want to make you feel bad
, but instead the tears are just, they're so beautiful, they're
so from the heart and I don'tknow where they're coming from.
Right, maybe that's the firststep, is I'm not sure why she's
(22:46):
crying?
In your case there were tearsof gratitude, it sounded like
Anne-Marie, more so, I wasdeeply, deeply grateful.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
You know, and this is why that check-in practice that
I mentioned a few minutes agois so incredibly valuable.
Again, super simple, but I hadbeen doing this practice for
many, many years at this pointevery day, and I do it multiple
times throughout the day.
So as you do this practice, youget to know yourself better and
your body.
Part of the practice isnoticing body sensations.
(23:11):
So as you start to notice bodysensations, they're like little
yellow flags and red flags foryour emotions.
They're helping you understandyourself better because your
body is always talking to you.
Now, if you're not familiar withthe signals from your body,
because you're not payingattention, you're not going to
know what your body's tellingyou.
So now I can know when I havethis little like you know, this
(23:34):
little pimp in my stomach andthis little poke over here, I'm
like, oh, that's going down thegratitude road, or oh, this is
going down the anger road, or oh, this is going down the fear
road.
But I only got there from yearsand years and years of tuning
in, paying attention andlistening to my body and
(23:59):
listening to my body.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Good for you.
We'd love to know more aboutyour conflict to connection tool
, please.
So when we're at home and wehave the same perpetual fight
right, same pattern that comesup, what are some of the actual
steps that we can take?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, this is great.
So the first step is this checkand practice that I use, which
is really getting related to thebody what's happening over here
?
Self-awareness that question Ioffered where am I?
That is a self-awareness toolthat we ask.
It helps identify am I feelingin a place of trust or feeling
(24:33):
in a place of threat?
There's all kinds of ways wecan describe that territory.
Bottom line is am I in acontracted state?
Is my heart open, or am I in anopen?
Is my heart closed or I'm in anopen place?
Is my heart open?
I don't know if I said that sograciously, but you get my drift
.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
We got it.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
But we can tell right away if there's any contraction
in the body, if my breath isn'treally flowing, if I'm judging
you can really help discern,going in depth, how to honestly
and radically identify yourselfin a place of trust or fear or
(25:16):
in that fear place, because themind can trick you.
The mind will say one thing.
The body is always telling youthe truth.
So we go through a whole seriesof tips and tools around that.
But that first step, liz, iswhere am I?
And get self-aware and takeradical responsibility.
(25:37):
Like if I am in a triggeredstate, I am not available for
authentic connection, I am notavailable for honest
conversation.
I'm protecting, which makesperfect sense.
It's perfectly acceptable.
I am a human being.
I have my past traumas and mychildhood stuff and I have my
current life experience.
All those things make up who Iam.
(25:59):
My job is just to be aware.
It's sort of like saying can Igo run a marathon if I have a
broken leg?
Well, of course not.
So can I engage in an authenticconflict?
Can I have a conflict, aproductive conflict, if I'm in
this triggered place?
And the answer is you are goingto create deeper drama with
(26:24):
your partner if you are in thistriggered state.
Once again, no judgment, it'sjust sort of math One plus one
equals two.
Triggered plus triggered equalsdrama and disconnection.
And that's fine, that's justwhat's going to happen.
But there's this acceptancepiece.
So that piece I was talkingabout when the tears started to
(26:44):
come in the parent-teacherconference, I had to really get
into acceptance around.
This is what's here now.
Tears are here now is what'shere now.
Fears are here now.
If I resist any of that, it'sgoing to create some kind of
jankiness in my system.
So, really, just to be in fullacceptance of, like, I'm
(27:05):
triggered right now I'm in thisargument with my spouse and this
is just what is, and I'm goingto accept myself for being a
human being and having thismoment, just as it is.
No judgment about it.
Then we go into other tools.
Now there's a third step wherewe can start applying some tools
that we teach which really arelike how am I, do I have a
(27:29):
willingness in this now momentto shift myself from this
unconscious, triggered place toa more conscious place where I
can work with the triggers asportals to deeper self-awareness
?
And again, that's anotherradical practice of awareness.
Like, am I willing to shiftright now Is the way I've
(27:50):
organized my ego.
Am I willing to shift or not?
And more times than not in mypractice, when I'm working with
people, when they're in thattriggered state, they're not
willing to shift, they're just,they're really I am going to
stay in this protective statebecause it feels safe, it feels
real safe.
And so then again we have to goback to that acceptance and
(28:11):
accept ourselves for, like, I'mjust not willing to connect
right now with myself or anyoneelse.
This is just.
And again it's like okay,that's okay.
But then once we get past that,like yeah, I think I think I'm
willing to shift, I think I'mI'm willing to stop protecting
myself and open my heart alittle bit.
And if I'm willing to do that,what are the things I'm actually
(28:33):
willing to do to make that areality?
What am I willing to do that?
What are the things I'mactually willing to do to make
that a reality?
What am I willing to do to openthat heart again and get
vulnerable?
Am I willing to cry in front ofthat teacher?
Am I willing to takeresponsibility for my reactivity
?
And what are the steps that I'mwilling to do to show that I'm
willing to take?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
those risks.
So you must be a fan of pausesor timeouts until you are ready.
That's true For sure.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
My husband and I have a practice where we like, okay,
I'm triggered and I'm notavailable, great, great so.
And he has practices that hedoes to get himself back
available and I have practicesthat I do to get me back
available.
And then we have an agreementaround.
We have a pre-agreed agreement,we already know, yeah.
(29:23):
So it's like a good 20 minuteswe'll come back together and if
in those 20 minutes we're notquite ready, we go.
I'm not ready, it needs to betomorrow or whatever it is.
But we've come up with theseagreements outside of the
conflict so that when theconflict happens it's already
mapped out.
We don't have to think about it.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
This is so just insightful, anne-marie.
This is so helpful.
I'm curious about generationalpatterns.
I think more people than weprobably even realize, you know,
have these generationalpatterns.
It's how we're raised, it'swhat we see, it's what we're
used to, we hear we're aroundall the time growing up.
So how can someone recognizewhen they're repeating these old
(30:06):
patterns and start doingsomething different, almost
because they don't even realizeit's all they've ever known?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, I'm just laughing because I'm thinking
like to anyone listening in andto you guys.
I'm sure your spouse or yoursignificant other has said to
you at some point you're justlike your mother, and it's true.
This is an acceptance pieceagain, you know, we don't just
inherit our eye color and ourhair color and our height and
(30:35):
all that from our parents.
We inherit patterns.
They're literally, you know,wired into our genetics, into
our DNA, and you know my motherinherited her patterns from her
mother and her father and so on.
So, you know, the more we canaccept the isness of that and
allow that to be true and thennot get upset by that, just like
(31:03):
, yes, it's true I get defensivewhen this happens, or, yes,
it's true that I'm controlling,just like my mother was.
We come at these things sohonestly, we're just mirroring
or mimicking what we learned aschildren and you know children,
that's what they do.
I just spent the weekend withmy grandchildren and you know I
(31:24):
would do one thing and then mygranddaughter would do the exact
same thing and I'd be like thisis how it goes.
They learn from us.
They're watching us.
We repeat these patterns.
They learn from us.
They're watching us, we repeatthese patterns and I tell my
kids, who are now young adultsand they're seeing the ways
they're like their dad and I andsome of the things they like
and some of the things theydon't like so much.
(31:46):
Excuse me, I got a little frogin my throat and I say you know,
these are just gifts andopportunities.
I've done the best I could toheal the patterns of the past
that I've inherited from myparents and you're going to be
left with some other things andit's just part of the job.
It's like cleaning the planet.
We've got stuff we need toclean up and you can be upset by
(32:09):
it or you can embrace it as aportal to deeper learning and a
portal to connection.
And yeah, that's just the way Ilook at it.
Did I answer that?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, you did, and I would love to hear even more.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message and we're back,
let's dive right in.
We already have a success story, an example.
(32:44):
You know, a client or something, of course without names, of
someone that you're able to helpkind of see the light, I guess,
and become that, that authentic, you know self, where they're
more aware.
I guess?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, gosh, so many.
And what's interesting?
Back to the question aboutwomen, because this comes up
with the women I'm working witha lot and the men I mean, it's
just so, we're just doing whatour parents do.
But one story comes to mind isworking with a family system I
(33:17):
was working with recently andthis family system struggles
with getting out the door intime and their kids are still
little.
They're teens, but young teens,and the father was raised in a
very strict family upbringingwhere, you know, the father was
(33:39):
in control and in charge and hedid.
He does things in a particularway and you do as you say, not
as you do.
And then the mother was raiseda little bit differently and so
getting out the door is astruggle for them and he's
noticing how he is treating hissons, the way his father treated
him, and he doesn't want to dothis anymore.
(34:03):
But he has the intellectualcapacity to understand what he's
doing, but he has not yetdeveloped the skills to stop it,
because it's so innate, thesebelief systems around, you know,
kids should be seen and notheard, kids should do as I say
and not as I do, and all thesebelief systems that generations
(34:27):
have inherited and the kids,meanwhile, are 10 years old and
of course they're throwing theirshoes and throwing a football
and wanting to play, and that isnot acceptable behavior.
So how that manifests then inthe marriage is the couple
starts to get into conflictbecause her belief systems
aren't aligned with his beliefsystems.
They get into conflict and thenit's 8 am and everyone is in a
(34:50):
giant struggle before they'veeven started their day, and
everyone is in a giant strugglebefore they even started their
day, and it's creating a lot ofdisconnection in the family.
And so we're really working on,like how can he connect to the
part of himself that wasn'tnurtured as a child, that wasn't
allowed to be a kid, when hewas a kid and he grew up with
(35:13):
this belief system that you knowyou should listen.
You know how many times I'veheard that so many times in my
life.
Kids should listen to theadults, and it's really not
always reasonable, right?
So dismantling that belief thathe inherited so that he can be
(35:34):
present in the moment andavailable to what is, is,
ironically, the solution togetting out the door in time,
because the less conflict thereis, the more spaciousness there
is to be with what is and themore freedom there is.
And when there's more freedomin the system there's more air.
And when the kids feel freethey're way more likely to
(35:55):
cooperate.
When you know the coupledoesn't feel like they're in
this angst and they feel moreopen and freer, they're more
likely to feel connected andwork as a team.
That's just a tiny example,dave.
I hope that helps.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, very helpful.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It's just a real life example of you.
Know, that's the way I wasraised.
I was raised like you listen toyour parents and you do as they
say and you have no say.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Super helpful, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Kids should be seen and not heard.
Right, that's another one.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I had to work that one out with my kids because I
could feel I'd parented my kidsthat way for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
And it didn't work for them.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Really.
How about that?
What's wrong with them?
What advice do you have,anne-marie, as we start to wrap
up here a bit, to women who feelstuck in a cycle of conflict
with their partners and theyjust want to feel more peace and
more connection in marriage?
Yeah, quick recipe for us.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I mean, raise your hand if you're listening in, and
that's you, because that'spretty much almost everyone, all
of us, right?
We're all in that place.
I mean, we all want moreconnection and none of us know
how to get it.
How to get it.
What's my quick advice, gosh?
I think the quick piece ofadvice that I think is the most
(37:25):
helpful and probably thetrickiest one is connection
starts with connecting toyourself so you can master this
(37:51):
skill of nurturing your own selfand staying connected to
yourself, the thing we want tofeel when actually we can create
that safety, that security,that love in ourselves.
And then, when we're comingfrom that place, we're first of
all a magnet for others, becausewhen you're in this beautiful
space of unconditional love forself, others want to step into
(38:14):
that.
They're like I want some ofthat.
Tell me how to get that.
What's that?
That feels good over there,right, and and we don't actually
need anything from from anyoneelse but we create a space for
others to step in.
And I think, you know, to awoman this might seem a little
(38:34):
bias and I'm open to anyonearguing with me, but women are
nurturers, right, we nurture,and I always say that women are
like mothers.
Whether you mother a child,you're mothering in some way or
another, and to mother is tonurture one back to its true
self.
And our true self is wholenessand unconditional love.
(38:57):
And if we can, you know, if wecan get really good at nurturing
ourselves back to unconditionallove for ourselves, then it's
easier to create connection withothers.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, Well said.
Well, Emery, as we wrap up ourtime together, we'd like to ask
all of our guests guests thisnext question.
And then, that is, as we wrapup our time together, we'd like
to ask all of our guests thisnext question.
And that is what do you feellike is the key?
There are probably many keys,right, but what is a key to a
stronger marriage connection inyour mind?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Accepting your humanity, like accepting your
own humanity and then acceptingyour partner's humanity.
I think, like you said, there'sa lot of keys, but for me
lately that's been the big oneLike just accepting I'm an
imperfect human, just pluggingthem along, trying to figure
this thing called life out.
(39:49):
It's not easy and really, yeah,accepting the vulnerability of
being human.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, love it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
And where can our listeners, my friend, find out
more about you, including yourbestselling book, the Perfectly
Imperfect Family what a greattitle.
And any other resources youhave to share, please?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, a great place to start is my website.
It's annemariechiresome, whichI'm sure you'll put in your show
notes, because no one's able tospell that off the top of their
head, and you can get all myfree goodies there and links to
everything there.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Nice.
Thank you for that.
How generous are you.
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, like you said for our listeners in the show
notes, so go check out thoselinks that we'll insert there.
Hey, at the conclusion of today, Anne-Marie, we like to wrap up
with a takeaway of the day,just a take home message you
hope our listeners will rememberfrom our discussion today.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
What would that be?
The one that's popping up?
You told me you were going toask this and I had a different
one, but this one's popping up,I'm going to go with it.
It's really mind your heart,right?
So pay attention to how openyour heart is and remember to
(41:11):
ask yourself is my heart open orclosed right now?
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And be honest.
Yeah, that's great, Liz.
What about you?
What closed right now?
And be honest.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, that's great, liz.
What about you?
What's your takeaway?
I loved all this, right, Iloved Anne-Marie how you most,
excuse me, recently just said,connection begins with me, right
, it starts here and being herenow in a very nonjudgmental way,
probably nonjudgmental towardsself as well as towards other.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
What about you, dave?
What's the rich nugget you hopeto remember from our time
(41:41):
together today with Anne-MarieToresso?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, anne-marie, this has been great.
I'm actually anxious to get tore-listen to this episode,
really soak in and actually takemore notes as I listen to this
next round.
I love the question yeah, wheream I?
It's just that question in somany ways right, where am I,
kind of emotionally, where am Iin the relationship?
Where am I paying attentionright now?
All those types of things.
(42:04):
You mentioned a couple ofphrases that I had never heard.
One of those is radicalresponsibility, emery.
I love that term.
We do, we have this radicalresponsibility.
And then you mentioned, I thinkyou call this false sense of
safety kind of when we're inthat protective mode and the
fear versus the trust because itis, it doesn't work.
(42:27):
But it is this false sense ofsafety which is one of our core
needs, right Of this feelingsafe.
And so I think, yes, if peoplejust understand that that's
actually normal right To be inthat kind of protective, if
people just understand thatthat's actually normal right To
be in that kind of protectivewhen I feel like when there's a
threat, it's you're going to putyour hands up, but but just
being aware of that, beingconsciously aware, instead of
just automatically going yeah Towhere the pattern, the
(42:51):
unhealthy pattern perhaps, hasalways gone.
We can break those, but itstarts getting our hearts right
and paying, paying attention.
So, uh, love it and, marie, um,any final words?
Any your thoughts on on today?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Um, I just really enjoyed you guys and it was.
I love it and I love gettingthe reflections back because I'm
in it as I'm talking.
So I really appreciated thatreflection and, yeah, thank you
for what you do and thanks forhaving me.
It was really, really apleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, thanks again for making time for us and our
listeners.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll see you next time onanother episode of Stronger
Marriage Connection podcast.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And remember it's the small things that create a
stronger marriage connection.
See you next time.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram at
(44:03):
Stronger Marriage Life, andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(44:29):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
If you're in a romantic relationship, then you
know that conflict is inevitable.
On today's episode, consciousRelationship Coach Anne-Marie
Churraso joins us and we divedeep into mindfulness,
vulnerability and getting ourhearts right.
She even shares a simple, shortquestion that can reveal
whether fear or trust is drivingthe conflict in our
(00:25):
relationships.
You'll learn how to shift yourmindset, pay attention to the
present moment and take radicalresponsibility.
Anne-marie Churso is aconscious relationship coach,
speaker and author of theirnumber one international
bestseller, the PerfectlyImperfect Family.
With over 20 years ofexperience, she helps couples
break free from generationalpatterns, navigate conflict with
(00:48):
clarity and reconnect withtheir true selves.
Blending deep spiritual insightwith practical tools,
anne-marie guides women to letgo of conditioned beliefs,
embody love and create empowered, fulfilling relationships.
Her playful, heart-centeredapproach makes her a trusted
ally for women seeking greaterpeace, trust and freedom in
(01:09):
their lives.
She lives in Chicago with herhusband and their beautifully
blended family of nine, livingwhat she teaches love, presence
and conscious connection.
We hope you enjoy the show.
You enjoy the show.
(01:29):
Hey friends, welcome to anotherepisode of the Stronger
Marriage Connection podcast.
I'm Dr Dave here at Utah StateUniversity, alongside Dr Liz
Hill, our therapist and clinicalpsychologist.
We're aiming to bring you thevery best that we have in
research and resources, alongwith a few tips and tools to
help you create the marriage ofyour dreams.
All right, liz.
What if conflicts in yourmarriage could actually become
(01:50):
doorways to deeper intimacy andconnection?
I believe it.
I believe it.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
I know seriously and it can happen.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
So excited for our guest today.
Conscious Relationship Coach,Anne-Marie Charesto has spent
two decades helping peopletransform their relationships
using simple, science-backedmethods that turn drama into
trust and disconnection intolove.
Welcome to the show, Anne-Marie.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be with youguys.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
We're thrilled to have you join us, Kate Emery, as
I was reading a little bit moreabout you, you've learned from
some great minds out there whenit comes to positivity and
mindfulness, even conflict nameslike John Kabat-Zinn, Thich
Nhat Hanh, Martha Beck.
Before we dive into ourdiscussion, can you share with
us just a bit about you and yourbackground?
Tell us a little bit about yourstory and kind of your big
(02:40):
picture purpose?
Why do you do this?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah, well, thanks for asking and thanks for having
me Big picture.
So I was six weeks pregnantwith my third child, my marriage
started to crumble, lifestarted falling apart.
When I was eight monthspregnant, my husband moved out
and my life took like a completeleft turn and it sent me into a
(03:09):
downward spiral, like, well,you know, I was really in it for
a long, long time and um couldnot figure out my way out and I
did all the things you know liketried to figure out how to make
things better and back to what,the way I thought they should
be Right.
(03:29):
And life had different plansfor me and it took me on this
journey which started withmindfulness, and I started
learning about meditation andmindfulness and I had been a
yogi for many, many years and Ihad been dipping into
mindfulness and I'd been dippinginto meditation for close to
almost a decade, but I didn'tquite fully get it.
(03:53):
So my entry into all this workwas really through that lens of
deep, deep practice inmindfulness and meditation.
And and then that journey, likeyou know, sort of a leaf on the
river or in the wind, it justkept taking me to these places
and I kept saying yes andfollowing the lead, and it kept
(04:14):
opening me up to more and moreawareness.
I started becoming more and moreself-aware, or what I would
call today conscious, and as Ikept evolving or opening up, I
was thinking wait a minute, whydidn't anyone tell me this a
long time ago?
(04:34):
This is really valuable stuff,and I decided that I really
wanted to share what I waslearning with others, and I
started by teaching and talkingabout mindfulness in schools
with preschoolers and littlekids.
And then it kind of grew and Iworked with older kids and
(04:56):
started working with collegeanywhere from preschool to
college age and then it keptmorphing.
I started working with teachersand then I started working with
parents and it just keptgrowing.
And here I am today.
I continue to grow and evolveand learn and I really really
feel honored to be able to sharewhat has worked and resonated
(05:19):
for me in my life with others.
I think it's probably one ofthe greatest honors of my life.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Wow, I love this idea of consciousness.
Do you have a quick tip, aquick consciousness way to be,
or just even identify Emory inthe moment, whether I'm being
conscious or not.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Yeah, when I first started learning about
meditation and mindfulness, Ilearned from the greats, you
know, thich Nhat Hanh.
I got to attend a fullweek-long retreat with him and
other educators, john Kabat-Zinn, who's sort of the father of
you know mindfulness here in theStates, and you know I was like
what is the difference betweenmindfulness, you know, and
(06:03):
meditation?
And I couldn't get it.
And finally, it's one of thosethings you don't get it.
Until you get it, you can talkabout it all you want, but
embodying it.
And so when I really got it, itwas like consciousness or
mindfulness.
What I would say they'resynonymous with one another is
being here now in anon-judgmental way.
(06:28):
So it's really just like beingwith.
What is like?
For instance, I'm sort ofsitting in my office, my toes
are cold.
Anyone listening could do thisright now.
You just get really present bybringing your attention and
awareness to the body, becausewe're human beings here on this
planet, right?
So, feeling your fingertips,feeling your toes, like I can
(06:51):
feel a little tightness in myjaw, which always happens when
I'm sort of in these kinds ofconversations.
My belly is a little tight, youknow.
I can notice some clenching inmy body and just being just
noticing that, without judgingit, without assigning it, like
well, I'm, my fingers are coldbecause I'm not wearing socks or
(07:13):
it's air conditioned, you know,just just noticing
non-judgmentally.
That is really what presencereally is, not letting the
judgments, the identificationget in the way.
So it's an is-ness, it's a whatyou say.
What was the last word?
I used the word is-ness.
(07:36):
I'm not sure if that's in therebel dictionary or not, but
it's just being here fully.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Now I can see what a gift that would give to our
relationships, right.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
And it's hard.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And it's hard.
Yeah, you had me until youstarted to say nonjudgmental and
I was like, oh, that adds to itAll right.
Well, many of us were raised, Ithink, to believe that going
back to conflict, that conflictis something bad or scary, it's
wrong, it means maybe we're withthe wrong person, but we love
(08:12):
that.
You say conflict isn't a signof failure, but it's an
invitation, and an invitation togrow at that.
How do you help women inparticular shift their mindset,
anne-marie, to view conflict asactually an opportunity for
growth and even deeperconnection?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Yeah, this thing about a conflict being a problem
is really like a belief systemthat we've all been conditioned
into.
You know, conditioned into andI would invite anyone listening
in like, think about yourchildhood and what conflict was
like when you were a kid and howthe adults around you behaved
(08:53):
around it, because that is howyou developed your ideas about
what conflict means.
And you know, I was talking toa client yesterday and he was
discussing his relationship toconflict on his father's side
versus his client relationshipto conflict on his mother's side
.
Big conflicts would happen tothe adults and they wouldn't
(09:14):
engage the kids and it wouldjust sort of be happening but
there would be no residualimpact on the kids versus the
opposite and his mother's family.
It would sort of fall onto thekids and there'd be lots of
drama and you know.
And so he said he said you know, in this family system conflict
was fine.
I just didn't have a problemwith it.
And then in this family systemit was really different and it
(09:36):
caused a lot of stress andanxiety.
But the way that I've learned,you know, so I fall into that
category.
When I grew up in a family,conflict was a problem.
You know, we want to stop it.
We don't want, you know,anything uncomfortable is
something we want to push away.
And so when I was going throughmy divorce and all these things
(09:56):
and I was developing all thesestories about these conflicts, I
was in relationship to all ofit from a place of resistance,
pushing it away.
This is bad, this is wrong, wedon't want it.
And slowly, when I started topeel back the onion, I was like,
whoa, conflict is actually aportal to deeper layers of
awareness.
(10:17):
For me, it's become a realinvitation to see where is it
that my heart is closed versusmy heart is open?
Because, you know, we'retalking about relationships here
and the only way to createstrong connections in
relationships is to be connectedthrough the heart.
In my opinion Now I know I'vesaid this really blanket
(10:37):
statement the only way but it'sthe only way I have come to find
authentic connection reallyhappens when my heart is fully
open and I am fully available togive and receive from that
heart centered place.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I love that, love that idea Going back to that
isness again, huh yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Mm, hmm, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I love this idea and, marie, this, this open heart,
reminds me of a good friend,wally Goddard.
He likes to say that irritationis an invitation.
When we feel irritated, it's aninvitation for introspection,
an invitation for understandingor compassion or perspective
taking to slow down when we feelirritated.
(11:22):
So I love that.
And then he talks about gettingour hearts right.
So, uh, so much of this isreally at the heart of of
conflict.
You, you talk about onequestion that can reveal whether
fear or trust is driving theconflict in our relationships.
Can you share?
I'm dying to hear what thatquestion is and how our
(11:42):
listeners can use it the nexttime they're in the middle of an
argument with their partner.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
Yeah, it's a simple question, but it's a complex.
Well, it's an involved process.
So the question is where am I?
And the question helps us,helps us humans kind of identify
(12:10):
am I in a contracted state,meaning, is my heart closed or
am I in an open-hearted state?
Is my heart open?
So the question helps usidentify are we in fear when I'm
contracted?
Any, if I'm 1% contracted, thatmeans I'm in fear.
I'm protecting against.
If I'm 1% contracted, that meansI'm in fear, I'm protecting
against something that means myheart is closed, even just 1%,
(12:32):
which means that our limbicbrain is going to be paying
attention to what it needs toprotect.
For what's the threat?
So, any of our attention or ourawareness, unconsciously right,
because most of us areoperating on an unconscious
level.
The limbic brain is always backthere, operating, looking for
(12:52):
threats, looking for threats,looking for threats.
And you're going to find thembecause there are threats.
We just look around the world,turn on the news, go through
your Instagram feed, look youremail.
You are being peppered withthreats all day long.
So most of us are walking aroundslightly contracted, trying to
protect ourselves.
(13:13):
So if you can start to becomemore consciously aware of when
you're in those contractedstates, you can then take
responsibility for not beingavailable for real, authentic
connection, because you cannotauthentically connect to another
(13:34):
human being if you're focusedon protecting yourself, and
there's nothing like.
The second thing I want to sayabout this is there's nothing
wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong withbeing in a threatened state.
It's human.
We have really created amessage that you know we should
always be positive and we shouldalways be open and we should
(13:56):
always be all these things thatare not actually possible.
We have to accept our humanity,which is we're scared.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
We're scared a lot of the time, yeah, especially in
our relationships, when you bothsay, yeah, I don't.
I don't think we're ever morevulnerable than we are in those
intimate relationships.
I love this, we, we, we lovehow you integrate the mind body,
heart connection andrelationships, emery.
And no one's really busier, Iwould probably dare say, than a
(14:28):
woman.
It seems like who is a wife, amother, a career person?
What does the simple dailypractice actually look like of
integrating mind, body, heartwhen you are in so many
different places, so manydemands upon you?
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah, this is a really good question.
I offer a free gift to myaudience called the check-in
process, and it's a process thatI was taught many, many years
ago and it's so stupid, sillythat it almost seems ridiculous
to do, but I use it like I satdown before this call and I use
(15:08):
this process.
My husband and I use it beforewe have any kind of important
conversations, I use it beforeI'm meeting with clients, I use
it with my clients and thecheck-in process is something
just like you said, liz.
It integrates mind, body,spirit.
So we check in with all threecenters of intelligence.
(15:29):
Because you both know we're veryhead-based in our culture.
We spend a lot of time withthis baby up here and our brain
and our mind.
We forget about our body, weforget about our heart and we
forget about our gut.
So this check-in practicestills you for a moment and
invites you into a moment ofpresence where you're checking
(15:50):
in, noticing, very similar tothe practice I talked about a
few minutes ago, like what'shere now, what do I feel in my
body, what do I feel in my gut,what is my heart telling me and
what is my head telling me, andcan I get into alignment with
all three of those things.
So the check-in practice is, Ithink, a fundamental practice
(16:13):
for any of us, particularly busymoms, because there's so much
happening in those lives.
We're juggling, juggling,juggling.
So much we're very used tooverriding our own experience in
service of nurturing others.
And I mean, of course it'shappening to men too.
(16:33):
It's not universal for justwomen, but you did ask about
women, so I wanted to addressthat.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Nice.
I appreciate that We'll beright back after this brief
message.
And we're back, let's diveright in.
Henry, after 20 years you'vebeen at this for quite a while
(17:03):
After 20 years plus of coaching,what patterns, I'm curious, do
you see in marriages wherecouples successfully turn
conflict into connection versusthose who just keep staying
stuck in those same fights?
Those same patterns, day afterday, year after year, over and
over.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
This is really simple and I'm going to just kind of
repeat what we just talked abouta few minutes ago and I want to
say I'm saying this from anincredibly nonjudgmental place.
It's just like a pragmaticexplanation of what happens.
But the simple answer is, whenwe are trapped in that fear
(17:47):
place and we are unwilling toopen our heart, that's how we
create drama and we keep kickingaround those patterns, those
patterns, those egoic patternsthat are coming from that closed
heart, that fear-based place.
Those patterns are justdesigned to make us feel safe.
It's a false sense of safety,but somehow in childhood we
(18:10):
develop those patterns and they,they, they like created some
temporary relief.
They seem to work for a minuteor two and it works, gets us,
you know, like an inch closer towhere we want to be, and then
the same pattern will kick upagain because we haven't really
resolved it at the core.
(18:37):
Seen really transform are thosethat are really deeply willing
to go into their vulnerabilityand open their heart when
they're incredibly scared, whenthey're feeling very threatened.
So it's like walking throughthe fire and then trusting that
they're going to be held on theother side of that.
When you know the mostexperience I or the most
successful experiences I havewith clients and I want to say,
(18:59):
with my own marriage and my ownrelationships, is when I'm
willing to go first, when I'mwilling to be the most
vulnerable person in the room,when I'm willing to let down all
my defenses and I would saythat's the hardest practice we
find ourselves doing.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Is to go first as the hardest, or to be vulnerable or
both.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Both.
I'm sure you've been therebefore where you feel that
vulnerability.
This is a really great example.
It's not related specificallyto an interpersonal relationship
, but you know we hold ouremotions back all the time in
service of you know, taking careof others, of you know what's
appropriate or what's notappropriate.
(19:44):
And we've learned to bite ouremotions back.
And I remember when my daughterwas in seventh or eighth grade,
I had a school meeting with oneof her teachers who I adored and
who supported my daughterthrough a really rough time, and
there was just a lot ofgratitude there and we were in a
meeting and she was sharingsome of her honest opinions
(20:06):
about my daughter which, by theway, some people would say were
not very favorable, and I wasgrateful because she was being
honest and I didn't find them tobe unfavorable, I just found
them to be truthful.
Anyway, brought emotion forwardbecause I was so grateful to
her willingness to be so honestwith me and I could feel her
(20:29):
love and her care for mydaughter, like so many teachers
in the world, and I gotemotional in the meeting.
Now remember.
So tears started to come and Iremember thinking, oh, don't do
this, anne-marie, don't do this,she's not going to know how to
be with this right, I'm beingincredibly vulnerable.
Normally we would hold back ouremotion, we bite back, we
wouldn't show that emotionbecause you know it's only
(20:52):
appropriate in certainconditions Our therapist's
office and you know a few otherplaces.
So because I'm deeply devotedto feeling my feelings all the
way through, being vulnerableand all of this, I allowed it to
move through and, of course,she got really uncomfortable.
She's like it's okay, it's okayand I'm like no, no, no, I'm
actually okay.
And what that reminded me ishow uncomfortable and how
(21:17):
ill-equipped we are to hold eachother in our vulnerability.
So why don't we get vulnerablewith each other?
Because our partners haven'tlearned how to hold our
vulnerability, particularly men.
Men don't know how to holdwomen because men haven't been
taught how to hold their ownemotions, much less hold ours.
So it gets real scary, realfast.
(21:38):
So I think being willing toreally get vulnerable, let your
emotions flow as they are andnot let someone else's reaction
impact that or shut your heartdown, is incredibly brave.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Yeah, Because it's risky.
Right, it's risky, it's almostborderline dangerous.
Chad Ford calls it dangerouslove, right, it's like, ah,
uncomfortable to you know.
Let this vulnerable side of meout.
We're not taught.
We're taught to be tough andjust take it and try to solve
and instead like be yeah, beopen.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, it's very, very .
I love the example of just ateacher saying oh no, no, no,
don't you know?
Kind of like don't cry thosetears back in Cause I don't know
what to do with them or Ididn't want to make you feel bad
, but instead the tears are just, they're so beautiful, they're
so from the heart and I don'tknow where they're coming from.
Right, maybe that's the firststep, is I'm not sure why she's
(22:46):
crying?
In your case there were tearsof gratitude, it sounded like
Anne-Marie, more so, I wasdeeply, deeply grateful.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
You know, and this is why that check-in practice that
I mentioned a few minutes agois so incredibly valuable.
Again, super simple, but I hadbeen doing this practice for
many, many years at this pointevery day, and I do it multiple
times throughout the day.
So as you do this practice, youget to know yourself better and
your body.
Part of the practice isnoticing body sensations.
(23:11):
So as you start to notice bodysensations, they're like little
yellow flags and red flags foryour emotions.
They're helping you understandyourself better because your
body is always talking to you.
Now, if you're not familiar withthe signals from your body,
because you're not payingattention, you're not going to
know what your body's tellingyou.
So now I can know when I havethis little like you know, this
(23:34):
little pimp in my stomach andthis little poke over here, I'm
like, oh, that's going down thegratitude road, or oh, this is
going down the anger road, or oh, this is going down the fear
road.
But I only got there from yearsand years and years of tuning
in, paying attention andlistening to my body and
(23:59):
listening to my body.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Good for you.
We'd love to know more aboutyour conflict to connection tool
, please.
So when we're at home and wehave the same perpetual fight
right, same pattern that comesup, what are some of the actual
steps that we can take?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
Yeah, this is great.
So the first step is this checkand practice that I use, which
is really getting related to thebody what's happening over here
?
Self-awareness that question Ioffered where am I?
That is a self-awareness toolthat we ask.
It helps identify am I feelingin a place of trust or feeling
(24:33):
in a place of threat?
There's all kinds of ways wecan describe that territory.
Bottom line is am I in acontracted state?
Is my heart open, or am I in anopen?
Is my heart closed or I'm in anopen place?
Is my heart open?
I don't know if I said that sograciously, but you get my drift
.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
We got it.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
But we can tell right away if there's any contraction
in the body, if my breath isn'treally flowing, if I'm judging
you can really help discern,going in depth, how to honestly
and radically identify yourselfin a place of trust or fear or
(25:16):
in that fear place, because themind can trick you.
The mind will say one thing.
The body is always telling youthe truth.
So we go through a whole seriesof tips and tools around that.
But that first step, liz, iswhere am I?
And get self-aware and takeradical responsibility.
(25:37):
Like if I am in a triggeredstate, I am not available for
authentic connection, I am notavailable for honest
conversation.
I'm protecting, which makesperfect sense.
It's perfectly acceptable.
I am a human being.
I have my past traumas and mychildhood stuff and I have my
current life experience.
All those things make up who Iam.
(25:59):
My job is just to be aware.
It's sort of like saying can Igo run a marathon if I have a
broken leg?
Well, of course not.
So can I engage in an authenticconflict?
Can I have a conflict, aproductive conflict, if I'm in
this triggered place?
And the answer is you are goingto create deeper drama with
(26:24):
your partner if you are in thistriggered state.
Once again, no judgment, it'sjust sort of math One plus one
equals two.
Triggered plus triggered equalsdrama and disconnection.
And that's fine, that's justwhat's going to happen.
But there's this acceptancepiece.
So that piece I was talkingabout when the tears started to
(26:44):
come in the parent-teacherconference, I had to really get
into acceptance around.
This is what's here now.
Tears are here now is what'shere now.
Fears are here now.
If I resist any of that, it'sgoing to create some kind of
jankiness in my system.
So, really, just to be in fullacceptance of, like, I'm
(27:05):
triggered right now I'm in thisargument with my spouse and this
is just what is, and I'm goingto accept myself for being a
human being and having thismoment, just as it is.
No judgment about it.
Then we go into other tools.
Now there's a third step wherewe can start applying some tools
that we teach which really arelike how am I, do I have a
(27:29):
willingness in this now momentto shift myself from this
unconscious, triggered place toa more conscious place where I
can work with the triggers asportals to deeper self-awareness
?
And again, that's anotherradical practice of awareness.
Like, am I willing to shiftright now Is the way I've
(27:50):
organized my ego.
Am I willing to shift or not?
And more times than not in mypractice, when I'm working with
people, when they're in thattriggered state, they're not
willing to shift, they're just,they're really I am going to
stay in this protective statebecause it feels safe, it feels
real safe.
And so then again we have to goback to that acceptance and
(28:11):
accept ourselves for, like, I'mjust not willing to connect
right now with myself or anyoneelse.
This is just.
And again it's like okay,that's okay.
But then once we get past that,like yeah, I think I think I'm
willing to shift, I think I'mI'm willing to stop protecting
myself and open my heart alittle bit.
And if I'm willing to do that,what are the things I'm actually
(28:33):
willing to do to make that areality?
What am I willing to do that?
What are the things I'mactually willing to do to make
that a reality?
What am I willing to do to openthat heart again and get
vulnerable?
Am I willing to cry in front ofthat teacher?
Am I willing to takeresponsibility for my reactivity
?
And what are the steps that I'mwilling to do to show that I'm
willing to take?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
those risks.
So you must be a fan of pausesor timeouts until you are ready.
That's true For sure.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
My husband and I have a practice where we like, okay,
I'm triggered and I'm notavailable, great, great so.
And he has practices that hedoes to get himself back
available and I have practicesthat I do to get me back
available.
And then we have an agreementaround.
We have a pre-agreed agreement,we already know, yeah.
(29:23):
So it's like a good 20 minuteswe'll come back together and if
in those 20 minutes we're notquite ready, we go.
I'm not ready, it needs to betomorrow or whatever it is.
But we've come up with theseagreements outside of the
conflict so that when theconflict happens it's already
mapped out.
We don't have to think about it.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
This is so just insightful, anne-marie.
This is so helpful.
I'm curious about generationalpatterns.
I think more people than weprobably even realize, you know,
have these generationalpatterns.
It's how we're raised, it'swhat we see, it's what we're
used to, we hear we're aroundall the time growing up.
So how can someone recognizewhen they're repeating these old
(30:06):
patterns and start doingsomething different, almost
because they don't even realizeit's all they've ever known?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Yeah, I'm just laughing because I'm thinking
like to anyone listening in andto you guys.
I'm sure your spouse or yoursignificant other has said to
you at some point you're justlike your mother, and it's true.
This is an acceptance pieceagain, you know, we don't just
inherit our eye color and ourhair color and our height and
(30:35):
all that from our parents.
We inherit patterns.
They're literally, you know,wired into our genetics, into
our DNA, and you know my motherinherited her patterns from her
mother and her father and so on.
So, you know, the more we canaccept the isness of that and
allow that to be true and thennot get upset by that, just like
(31:03):
, yes, it's true I get defensivewhen this happens, or, yes,
it's true that I'm controlling,just like my mother was.
We come at these things sohonestly, we're just mirroring
or mimicking what we learned aschildren and you know children,
that's what they do.
I just spent the weekend withmy grandchildren and you know I
(31:24):
would do one thing and then mygranddaughter would do the exact
same thing and I'd be like thisis how it goes.
They learn from us.
They're watching us.
We repeat these patterns.
They learn from us.
They're watching us, we repeatthese patterns and I tell my
kids, who are now young adultsand they're seeing the ways
they're like their dad and I andsome of the things they like
and some of the things theydon't like so much.
(31:46):
Excuse me, I got a little frogin my throat and I say you know,
these are just gifts andopportunities.
I've done the best I could toheal the patterns of the past
that I've inherited from myparents and you're going to be
left with some other things andit's just part of the job.
It's like cleaning the planet.
We've got stuff we need toclean up and you can be upset by
(32:09):
it or you can embrace it as aportal to deeper learning and a
portal to connection.
And yeah, that's just the way Ilook at it.
Did I answer that?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Yeah, you did, and I would love to hear even more.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message and we're back,
let's dive right in.
We already have a success story, an example.
(32:44):
You know, a client or something, of course without names, of
someone that you're able to helpkind of see the light, I guess,
and become that, that authentic, you know self, where they're
more aware.
I guess?
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, gosh, so many.
And what's interesting?
Back to the question aboutwomen, because this comes up
with the women I'm working witha lot and the men I mean, it's
just so, we're just doing whatour parents do.
But one story comes to mind isworking with a family system I
(33:17):
was working with recently andthis family system struggles
with getting out the door intime and their kids are still
little.
They're teens, but young teens,and the father was raised in a
very strict family upbringingwhere, you know, the father was
(33:39):
in control and in charge and hedid.
He does things in a particularway and you do as you say, not
as you do.
And then the mother was raiseda little bit differently and so
getting out the door is astruggle for them and he's
noticing how he is treating hissons, the way his father treated
him, and he doesn't want to dothis anymore.
(34:03):
But he has the intellectualcapacity to understand what he's
doing, but he has not yetdeveloped the skills to stop it,
because it's so innate, thesebelief systems around, you know,
kids should be seen and notheard, kids should do as I say
and not as I do, and all thesebelief systems that generations
(34:27):
have inherited and the kids,meanwhile, are 10 years old and
of course they're throwing theirshoes and throwing a football
and wanting to play, and that isnot acceptable behavior.
So how that manifests then inthe marriage is the couple
starts to get into conflictbecause her belief systems
aren't aligned with his beliefsystems.
They get into conflict and thenit's 8 am and everyone is in a
(34:50):
giant struggle before they'veeven started their day, and
everyone is in a giant strugglebefore they even started their
day, and it's creating a lot ofdisconnection in the family.
And so we're really working on,like how can he connect to the
part of himself that wasn'tnurtured as a child, that wasn't
allowed to be a kid, when hewas a kid and he grew up with
(35:13):
this belief system that you knowyou should listen.
You know how many times I'veheard that so many times in my
life.
Kids should listen to theadults, and it's really not
always reasonable, right?
So dismantling that belief thathe inherited so that he can be
(35:34):
present in the moment andavailable to what is, is,
ironically, the solution togetting out the door in time,
because the less conflict thereis, the more spaciousness there
is to be with what is and themore freedom there is.
And when there's more freedomin the system there's more air.
And when the kids feel freethey're way more likely to
(35:55):
cooperate.
When you know the coupledoesn't feel like they're in
this angst and they feel moreopen and freer, they're more
likely to feel connected andwork as a team.
That's just a tiny example,dave.
I hope that helps.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, very helpful.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
It's just a real life example of you.
Know, that's the way I wasraised.
I was raised like you listen toyour parents and you do as they
say and you have no say.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Super helpful, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Kids should be seen and not heard.
Right, that's another one.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
I had to work that one out with my kids because I
could feel I'd parented my kidsthat way for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (36:38):
And it didn't work for them.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Really.
How about that?
What's wrong with them?
What advice do you have,anne-marie, as we start to wrap
up here a bit, to women who feelstuck in a cycle of conflict
with their partners and theyjust want to feel more peace and
more connection in marriage?
Yeah, quick recipe for us.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
I mean, raise your hand if you're listening in, and
that's you, because that'spretty much almost everyone, all
of us, right?
We're all in that place.
I mean, we all want moreconnection and none of us know
how to get it.
How to get it.
What's my quick advice, gosh?
I think the quick piece ofadvice that I think is the most
(37:25):
helpful and probably thetrickiest one is connection
starts with connecting toyourself so you can master this
(37:51):
skill of nurturing your own selfand staying connected to
yourself, the thing we want tofeel when actually we can create
that safety, that security,that love in ourselves.
And then, when we're comingfrom that place, we're first of
all a magnet for others, becausewhen you're in this beautiful
space of unconditional love forself, others want to step into
(38:14):
that.
They're like I want some ofthat.
Tell me how to get that.
What's that?
That feels good over there,right, and and we don't actually
need anything from from anyoneelse but we create a space for
others to step in.
And I think, you know, to awoman this might seem a little
(38:34):
bias and I'm open to anyonearguing with me, but women are
nurturers, right, we nurture,and I always say that women are
like mothers.
Whether you mother a child,you're mothering in some way or
another, and to mother is tonurture one back to its true
self.
And our true self is wholenessand unconditional love.
(38:57):
And if we can, you know, if wecan get really good at nurturing
ourselves back to unconditionallove for ourselves, then it's
easier to create connection withothers.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah, Well said.
Well, Emery, as we wrap up ourtime together, we'd like to ask
all of our guests guests thisnext question.
And then, that is, as we wrapup our time together, we'd like
to ask all of our guests thisnext question.
And that is what do you feellike is the key?
There are probably many keys,right, but what is a key to a
stronger marriage connection inyour mind?
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Accepting your humanity, like accepting your
own humanity and then acceptingyour partner's humanity.
I think, like you said, there'sa lot of keys, but for me
lately that's been the big oneLike just accepting I'm an
imperfect human, just pluggingthem along, trying to figure
this thing called life out.
(39:49):
It's not easy and really, yeah,accepting the vulnerability of
being human.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, love it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
And where can our listeners, my friend, find out
more about you, including yourbestselling book, the Perfectly
Imperfect Family what a greattitle.
And any other resources youhave to share, please?
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, a great place to start is my website.
It's annemariechiresome, whichI'm sure you'll put in your show
notes, because no one's able tospell that off the top of their
head, and you can get all myfree goodies there and links to
everything there.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Nice.
Thank you for that.
How generous are you.
That's wonderful.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yeah, like you said for our listeners in the show
notes, so go check out thoselinks that we'll insert there.
Hey, at the conclusion of today, Anne-Marie, we like to wrap up
with a takeaway of the day,just a take home message you
hope our listeners will rememberfrom our discussion today.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
What would that be?
The one that's popping up?
You told me you were going toask this and I had a different
one, but this one's popping up,I'm going to go with it.
It's really mind your heart,right?
So pay attention to how openyour heart is and remember to
(41:11):
ask yourself is my heart open orclosed right now?
Speaker 1 (41:15):
And be honest.
Yeah, that's great, Liz.
What about you?
What closed right now?
And be honest.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, that's great, liz.
What about you?
What's your takeaway?
I loved all this, right, Iloved Anne-Marie how you most,
excuse me, recently just said,connection begins with me, right
, it starts here and being herenow in a very nonjudgmental way,
probably nonjudgmental towardsself as well as towards other.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
What about you, dave?
What's the rich nugget you hopeto remember from our time
(41:41):
together today with Anne-MarieToresso?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, anne-marie, this has been great.
I'm actually anxious to get tore-listen to this episode,
really soak in and actually takemore notes as I listen to this
next round.
I love the question yeah, wheream I?
It's just that question in somany ways right, where am I,
kind of emotionally, where am Iin the relationship?
Where am I paying attentionright now?
All those types of things.
(42:04):
You mentioned a couple ofphrases that I had never heard.
One of those is radicalresponsibility, emery.
I love that term.
We do, we have this radicalresponsibility.
And then you mentioned, I thinkyou call this false sense of
safety kind of when we're inthat protective mode and the
fear versus the trust because itis, it doesn't work.
(42:27):
But it is this false sense ofsafety which is one of our core
needs, right Of this feelingsafe.
And so I think, yes, if peoplejust understand that that's
actually normal right To be inthat kind of protective, if
people just understand thatthat's actually normal right To
be in that kind of protectivewhen I feel like when there's a
threat, it's you're going to putyour hands up, but but just
being aware of that, beingconsciously aware, instead of
just automatically going yeah Towhere the pattern, the
(42:51):
unhealthy pattern perhaps, hasalways gone.
We can break those, but itstarts getting our hearts right
and paying, paying attention.
So, uh, love it and, marie, um,any final words?
Any your thoughts on on today?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Um, I just really enjoyed you guys and it was.
I love it and I love gettingthe reflections back because I'm
in it as I'm talking.
So I really appreciated thatreflection and, yeah, thank you
for what you do and thanks forhaving me.
It was really, really apleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
Yeah, thanks again for making time for us and our
listeners.
Thanks for joining us.
We'll see you next time onanother episode of Stronger
Marriage Connection podcast.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
And remember it's the small things that create a
stronger marriage connection.
See you next time.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram at
(44:03):
Stronger Marriage Life, andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(44:29):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!