June 2, 2025 • 45 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
On today's episode, dr Liz and I welcome to the show
David and Julie Bullitt.
David works as a divorce lawyerand Julie as a couples
therapist, and together theyshare unique insights about
conflict conversation and keysto commitment for busy couples
pulled in multiple directions.
They also share practical tipsfor increasing resilience and
overcoming struggles andmistakes.
(00:25):
Julie and David Bullitt are thepowerhouse duo behind the
Bullitts she's a licensedmarriage and family therapist,
he's a divorce lawyer andtogether they've authored two
award-winning books the FiveCore, conversations for Couples
and Secrets of Strong Couples.
As hosts of Conversations forCouples, the podcast and
(00:50):
frequent DC area TV guests, theyshare insights from their
professional expertise and 38plus years of marriage, parents
to four daughters, twobiological and two adopted.
The Bullets offer a uniqueperspective on relationships
from both sides of the aisle.
We hope you enjoy the show ofthe aisle.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We hope you enjoy the show.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection.
We've got the psychologist andthe professor, respectively Dr
Liz Hale and Dr Dave Schramm,together.
We have dedicated our life'swork to bringing you the best we
have in valid marital research,along with a few tips and tools
(01:25):
to help you create the marriageof your dreams.
Okay, dave, so what happenswhen you take a top divorce
lawyer who's married to atalented family therapist?
I mean, it sounds like a joke,right?
What happens when you go into abar and you that's right, we're
in.
But the big question is you takethis beautiful couple, talented
therapist, top divorce lawyer,at the end of the day, close the
(01:47):
door.
What do they really say?
What's really on their minds?
Where do their specialtiesmerge and where do they clash?
Professionally, david and JulieBullitt have seen life's most
difficult challenges, fromaddiction, infidelity, mental
and physical diagnosis andtrauma.
They have also even weatheredtheir own challenges, like most
(02:07):
of us do at home, includingraising four beautiful daughters
, two biological and two adopted, even dealing with addiction
and mental health issues intheir own home.
Well, what they've learnedabout saving a marriage could
fill a book or two, and it doesactually.
Dave, we're going to get intothat and so much more with David
and Julie Bullitt.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, our friends.
(02:28):
Thank you so much for having us.
We're looking forward to it.
It's just a joy.
You've been married for over 35years.
Did I get that right?
What's the number?
38, not that we're counting,yeah, 38.
I'm so glad I asked three years, not three more years.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
They do my jerk I wait to tell is the 17 happiest
years of my life, which ofcourse is a joke.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And then I give him an elbow and say that yeah, yeah
, but in some ways it's truebecause, as you know, because
this is your realm, marriage isreally and it's not all easy and
not all beautiful, so there aredefinitely hard parts to being
married.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I think that's what makes you two so incredibly
valuable is your vulnerability,your honesty, your candor To say
you know 17 years of those.
Is that what you're saying,david?
17 was really good.
It is a joke, I know it's ajoke, but nonetheless I do kind
of get that.
But I got married later in lifeso I tell you every year I was
just so proud of you know what Imean.
(03:31):
I just remember like firstthree years is like great Six
years, okay, phew, I think wedid.
I think we're now getting pastthat hump that Dr John Gottman
talks about Now.
It Dr John Gottman talks aboutnow has been almost a dozen
years and I am just proud ofevery single one, because it
wasn't easy.
You're right, and I put a lotof you know love, sweat and
tears into that.
What do you think for the twoof you has been the biggest key
(03:54):
to sustaining your marriagethrough all of life's highs and
lows?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I would say being able to talk about things,
whether they're, you know,positive or negative.
So obviously communication,laughing, I mean humor is a huge
part of our relationship.
But we joke about things thatyou know, hard things sometimes,
and you know sometimes we'll go.
(04:19):
Oh, maybe that's too soon tojoke about that, but I think for
us it's been.
You know, and really the valueof sticking together, right,
like you know, we can have badtimes, but no, like we're in it
for the long haul.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I think you know, from my perspective, to be a
little bit more specific youknow, particularly when our kids
were raising our kids, it wasand we talk about the wide load
in a marriage.
But it really is sort of tryingto understanding when your
spouse has kind of had enoughand needs to get pulled along.
You think of the wide load whenyou're out on the highway and
you see the big trucks.
(04:55):
It says wide load on the backand you got to be careful at
wide load and there's a carthat's pulling it.
So I think what we were able todo for the most part not always
by any stretch, but for themost part was able when the kids
were younger and we had someissues we're happy to discuss
with one of our daughters andthe ability to just sort of
understand intuitively that theother needed a breath, needed
(05:18):
you to step in, needed me tostep in, or she needed her to
step in.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Having each other's backs right, like I got you and
I can take it if you need me to.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What a great combo team you guys are already.
I can just sense it and feel it.
David and Julie, how did yourI'm curious your professional
backgrounds you as an attorney,david, and you as a family
therapist, julie?
How did it shape yourrelationships on the home front?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, I'll start this , don't take turns.
So for me and in the old days,pre-pandemic and I'm going to
the office every day and I'mseeing clients daily or going to
court, and nothing I do duringthe course of an 8 or 10 or
12-hour day doesn't have to dowith dispute debate arguing.
So when I get home, what do youthink is the last thing I want
(06:10):
to do?
And so I think, in fairness andI'm not saying that to be
particularly solicitous, but infairness I just kind of had
enough by the time I got home.
It was if she needed me to dothis, sure we want to talk about
this, that's fine.
If she needed me to do this,sure we want to talk about this,
that's fine.
When the kids need to go here,no problem.
I just the desire to avoidconflict was, I think, certainly
(06:35):
again when our kids wereyounger.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
It's different now that we're almost empty nesters,
but I think that was a bigthing for me, right, not
sweating the small stuff.
And I think the flip side towhat David's talking about is
that we you know what I see inmy office families that are
having these couples that arehaving difficulties, and what
he's seeing, which is peoplereally having difficulties and
(06:57):
getting out of relationships, isa sense of gratitude, of
gratitude and a sense that youknow, what we're kind of
enduring at our, you know, inour home, within our family, is,
you know, like it.
Sometimes it stinks, sometimesyou don't like it, you don't
want it, but in, you know, inperspective, it's not that bad
(07:20):
right, we can get through, youknow, a messy room, or we can
get through a screaming matchand repair relationship
afterwards, and so there's allthese things that sort of come
into play.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Do you mind if we probe just alittle bit?
Were there ever any momentswhen you seriously questioned
your own marriage?
And I think people will comeinto crossroads and arguments
and we're going differentdirections.
How do you navigate those times?
I think a lot of couples arethere right now, If not now.
They've been there, they'vedone that or they're headed
there.
What do you recommend?
(07:53):
How did you navigate it and howcan other couples navigate
those rough waters?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Yeah.
So first of all, I want to say,even though, as you guys are
too trained professionals, thetrained professional piece goes
out the window a lot when you'rewithin your own relationship.
So I may know to use anempathetic response, I may know
to come to your level, I mayknow to give positive
(08:19):
reinforcement, but sometimes,when you're triggered or you're
having a moment, you forget allof those wonderful techniques.
So I just want to say that thatit doesn't make things easier.
You know, necessarily, that I'ma therapist, right?
No?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And to answer your question, we did I mean
certainly from.
I think I did talk for Julie toa certain degree too.
We had two areas in our lifeduring the course of our
marriage.
Now, thankfully, the last 10,15 years, we haven't struggled
in these areas particularly ourkids have grown and financial
issues have changed.
But we had one of our fourchildren who was particularly
(08:56):
challenged and challenging is anice way of putting it and Julie
, the therapist, would thinkthat we would need to treat her
in a certain fashion from amental health perspective, with
medication and treatment and soforth.
And me, the divorce lawyer, whogrew up, you know, in the
playground, just said you knowshe's a jerk, you know you got
to deal with a jerk like I dealtwith me.
So we had a lot of rubbing upagainst each other over that
(09:21):
issue and also we had, in part,resulting from that and
resulting just from our badbehavior, we got ourselves in a
financial hole, which led to alot of disagreement, a lot of
stress, a lot of looking at eachother like maybe we ought to
look a different direction.
But, to answer your questionspecifically, we did deal with
(09:48):
those issues.
I'm happy to talk about any ofthat that you want to.
Ultimately, we were able andJulie came up with this, we were
able to lean in as opposed toleaning out, and the natural
reaction when someone isirritating you in a relationship
, rubbing you the wrong way,making you angry, is to say I'm
going to get out of here for awhile.
(10:09):
But what Julie I hate to sayshe taught me because she's
going to hold this on over myhead forever.
But what Julie sort of taughtus and me was the better thing
many times is not to do that, isto sort of lean into the issue
in a nice way, not in a waythat's going to make things
worse, and so we had our fairshare.
(10:31):
But those are the two big areasrelative to our children, one
in particular, and relative tofinances, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And then the other thing that we talk about we work
with couples, we coach couplesand we've written a couple of
books on strategies to helpcouples, and one of the things
that we talk about is takingfive minutes and not a week, and
what?
that reference is there aretimes when you need to take a
step away a few minutes ifyou're feeling triggered or
(11:01):
dysregulated, but to always comeback to it right, like to not
sweep it under the rug, becausewe know so many times that
couples that don't talk aboutthings, that don't deal with
things, end up in his office.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Thanks, sure yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You see it up close and personal, you know, in your
latest book, award-winning book,I might add the Five Core
Conversations for Couples.
What are the five areas youcover?
Just maybe briefly, and then toeach of you if you could speak
to what's the most crucial toyou, if there happens to be one.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Yeah, so that book, which was our first book our
second book is Secrets ofStrumming Couples, which took a
little bit different tack, butthat first book was actually
born.
We were on the beach, she washaving a glass of wine and I was
having a beer, and I don't knowhow the discussion started it
was about 10 years or so ago nowin which we're like we deal
(11:52):
with the same stuff, right, thesame problems come in for
different reasons and, generallyspeaking, you're talking about
what are the biggest areas ofpeople in a relationship where
they have conflict.
Right, it's finances, it'sparenting, right, it's intimacy,
and then it's these sort ofmore general sort of we call
(12:13):
them building block types ofthings.
And so we started fleshing thatsort of stuff out and that's
what built that book.
And that book is really itreally is a 190-page
conversation between the two ofus, because we talk about these
issues, and I think that thereason that that struck home
(12:36):
with a lot of people is whatJulie referenced earlier is and
we'll tell you a funny story ishere's a professional divorce
lawyer, professional familytherapist, you know, mental
health licensed clinical socialworker.
What kind of problems couldthey have?
The fact is we had a lot of.
We still have, but sharingthose, I think did touch a nerve
(12:56):
with folks.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, because we we talk about what we see in
our offices, but we also pointthe camera at ourselves, which
is okay, this is what you know,this is what went on with us in
this area.
So we also dive into sort ofthe beginnings of relationships.
We call it the building andfilling of the relationship.
What does the foundation looklike?
How do you guys communicate?
How do you navigate difficultsituations?
(13:19):
What is conflict?
What is you know?
What is healthy conflict inrelationship?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
look like People come to relationships from different
places, right, Even oftentimesit has to do with faith.
You know, people come torelationships with different
backgrounds when it comes tofaith.
They come to relationship withdifferent backgrounds when it
comes to finances, you know, andthose, and therefore you think
about life in those areasdifferently.
And if you haven't talked aboutthat as you're launching, then
(13:48):
when you're up there in thestratosphere trying to work
together and one person, forexample, is a big saver and the
other person wants to spend, allof a sudden you see conflict.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, man.
So I'd love to hear more thefive core conversations.
I mean, are you talking aboutthe money ones?
Are those some of the ones thatyou're talking about Intimacy,
or did you touch on some ofthose?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
the chapters.
One of the core conversationsis balance, the balance that you
have between yourself, yourself-care, and then what we like
to call self-care, and thensort of work-life balance.
How does all that work and fitinto the world?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Each section has several chapters in it that deal
with that particular issue thatwe all deal with in
relationships.
Whenever you get married inlife.
Dr Liz, yes, other than maybethe parenting part, I don't know
.
Yeah, but you know, wheneveryou develop a relationship,
these are main areas of conflict.
I know Liz is married, dave, Idon't know for you.
(15:00):
Yeah, if you look back on yourtime married and think about
where do we have disagreements,you know that's where they fall
yeah yeah, oftentimes you'reindeed right yeah, yeah, that's
right, we've been married.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, 26 years.
We had a daughter.
Uh just actually gave back fromher honeymoon yesterday.
Uh, yeah, we can.
In cancun we have anotherdaughter who's uh gonna get make
us grandparents in July.
She's been married.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, we're going to have to think of this.
So these cruises I mean this islike real life stuff.
Right, these are things thatthey're going to have to
navigate right at the beginningstages of marriage, that you
really need to get on the samepage with these important
critical topics that can bevery-.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A lot of people, as you know, they kind of just wait
.
They say, okay, we'll deal withit when it comes up.
And raising kids is another.
It's a perfect example whereit's just a minefield for
looking at things differently,parenting differently,
appropriately andinappropriately, much of the
time too.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Oh yeah, yeah.
I'm curious Do you everdisagree professionally about
what a couple should do in theirmarriage, and how do you
resolve those differences?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Yeah, that's funny.
You should ask that because wedo.
We do a lot of like fun thingson social media and we've done
something that we call should,should you, should we stay or
should we go?
Yeah, and we have couples writein different questions or
scenarios and then we'll hold upour card like stay, go.
(16:32):
No kidding.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
She stays 95% of the time.
Yeah, I'm go 50-50.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
So it's funny because I really, as a family therapist
, I always try to see thatthere's a solution in the
situation, and David oftentimeswould be like they need to get
out, like that's not okay.
Yeah, so that's funny that youasked that question, but we do
look at things differently.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
So what's an interesting dynamic?
So when we started doing thissort of couples coaching
together, you know people whowould interview us would say you
know, when are we going to talkto a divorce wife?
What do you bring?
You know, and it's a reasonablequestion.
You know, and Julie and I dolook at things differently, but
I think what I bring to thetable in that scenario is all
(17:19):
that I have seen that's gonewrong.
So if I I'm seeing it in theseconversations and these sessions
with folks, I tend to point itout and so I think what people
most people have enjoyed somehave not, it's not been a good
fit for them have enjoyed, whereJulie will say this is where I
think we are, this is what Ithink you might consider and I'm
like no, I don't think, I thinkyou ought to look at it this
(17:41):
way, and the fact that wedisagree I think is a helpful
thing in that sort of coachingenvironment.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Not all the time, but sometimes.
Yeah.
The other thing that's funnyabout him is I will hear this
divorce lawyer on the phone,because my office is down there,
his is over here.
I'll sometimes hear him tellclients or talk to clients about
going to therapy.
Have you tried maritalcounseling?
Have you thought about doingthis, or why don't you take a
(18:11):
little time and then come backto me and see if you can work
this out which I don't know ifthat's unique to him, being
married to a therapist, but Ithink it's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah, what a team yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
That's great.
I know a few divorce attorneyswho will do that or refer them
to discernment counseling.
Refer them back to me, and I'mjust so inspired by that.
I think attorneys really have avery valuable take on this
whole thing called marriage anddivorce.
So I'm always encouragingcouples, especially those that
are leaning out.
(18:42):
It's like sit down, talk to adivorce attorney and I'm doing
that in good faith that thatdivorce attorney will say this
is not going to be easy.
Let's talk about how this looksfrom my perspective, yeah.
But, I'm careful who I referthem to.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
We'll be right back after this brief message and
we're back.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Let's dive right in yeah, well, people often ask me
this next question, david andjulie, so I'm going to pose it
to you.
But as professionals, you seeeverything like we talked about,
from marital dysfunction todivorce.
How do you keep it fromaffecting your own marriage or
does it motivate you just theother direction maybe?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Well.
So it's more difficult in someways now than it was when we
weren't doing this business thatwe have together.
So, as you know, we've got thebooks and Julie and I do our own
podcast and we have our ownfull-time jobs podcast and we
have our own full-time jobs.
So it has become I have found Ican't speak for her more
(20:03):
difficult to stop the businessfrom bleeding into personal life
.
So we might be done with theworkday but we still have other
of our work to do, and then,when I think we're done, she
might still be on the phone orher computer responding to
people or doing whatever wemight be doing on social media
or with our podcast or whateverand that does.
Sometimes it takes a realeffort to say, okay, we're not
going to do that.
(20:23):
And one of the things that wecame up with and you asked about
specifics earlier is we came upwith this NoTek 90.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And sometimes it's.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
NoTek 30.
Notek 30,.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
NoTek 45, whatever you think you can, even if it's
started.
Notek 15, whatever it would beif it's.
You're at home on the couch,phones are off, computers are
always off and you're justhanging out.
Maybe you're having a cup ofcoffee, maybe you're having a
drink, maybe you're watching ashow together.
That's okay, taking a walk, itdoesn't matter something,
(20:55):
without paying attention tooutside influences.
I mean and and um, you folksare out west in utah and here.
You know we go out on asaturday night and you look
around and people are out foryoung, old, it doesn't matter
what age on their phones,looking at their phones.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
You're on a date on their phone and we're like what
is the connection piece?
So I think the question thatyou asked it was really multiple
questions which is, how do youall this stuff that's coming in,
all of these issues that yousee regularly in your offices,
in your business, how does itaffect you?
And I think in part we answeredthe question related to
(21:35):
technology and how that has beenchallenging for us and for so
many people, because weconstantly have it.
It's not like we leave it atthe office, it's in our hands
most of the time.
In our hands most of the time,but also emotionally there's
that piece too.
Is, you know, when you seepeople in tough situations, when
you see horrific sometimes youknow situations with people, how
(22:00):
do you then, you know, like,pack it up and, you know, show
up smiling or show up with notworrying about that person?
And I think you know, as atherapist, most people will tell
you is that they become like alittle bit calloused in some way
, is like we kind of get used tohearing, you know, traumatic
(22:22):
stories and difficultinformation.
But we also have really goodcompartments right.
So we have those, you know,compassionate moments with our
clients, and then we take thoseand we put them someplace and we
keep them so that we can thenshow up for our partner, for our
kids, for our own.
It's an easy thing to do, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Really, I love what you're talking about there.
To me it comes to my attention.
I like to say lack of attentionleads to loss of connection and
there's.
I would argue that at no otherperiod in the history of
humankind have there been morethings grasping for our
attention, our emotionalattention, our physical
(23:04):
attention.
Man that can drive couplesapart video games, technology,
sports, whatever.
It is man, it's a balance, andI think it's really difficult,
especially today.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
When I grew up.
Here's a good example when Igrew up and I had a question
about something that was inschool and I had to find out the
answer, my father hadencyclopedias in his office.
The answer my father hadencyclopedias in his office.
He would bring me into hisoffice and help me find any
encyclopedia.
I mean, there were books andthey cost I don't know how much
they cost.
(23:36):
And then you got thesupplements that you had to grow
Every year, every year.
But that was a time you spentthat time with your parents,
right, and now don't need to dothat.
Pick up your phone and say whatis the civil law?
Where did this?
Whatever it might be and it'sso easy and so much at hand that
(23:57):
it does take effort- to push it.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, the connection is definitely the connection in
all areas, whether it's you'reusing the Starbucks app and
you're running in to get yourcoffee, versus waiting in line
and talking to the person makingit or the person behind you.
That loss of connection iseverywhere and it is in
relationships, within families,within couples, and it's really
(24:24):
difficult.
So it's important for you knowyour listeners, to hear you know
whether you do a no tech 15, notech 30.
I know some families that turnoff technology, you know, after
a certain hour in their family,and I think that that's a great
strategy really paying attentionto making time without that
(24:46):
technology.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Another thing I often hear couples mention.
I'll just ask them hey, how areyou doing?
And one of the most commonanswers now in recent years is
like oh man, it's so busy.
I'm busy, whether it's busyrunning kids around or busy or
both working, it's just so busy.
Tell us a little bit aboutmaybe some common communication.
You know breakdowns or we'regoing in different directions.
Midterm, long-termrelationships I mean, what's
(25:12):
happening today?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Well, let me start from the divorce lawyer
standpoint and then Julie cantalk about what really answers
your question.
But to sort of overlay for youis I get asked all the time
what's the main reason thatpeople get divorced, what's the
biggest reason?
And everybody always thinksit's adultery, it's cheating or
(25:36):
it's financial Somebody was notbeing honest financially.
Those are the two big guessesthat people make all the time.
But the reality is that neitherof those are true.
They happen for sure, but thebiggest reason that I see and I
represent my practice is now 75-.
Those are true, they happen forsure, but the biggest reason
that I see and I represent mypractice is now 75-ish percent
women, but regardless of gender.
(25:58):
What you see is this malaise andit grows over time.
So if you use this, you'regoing to have to.
I call it malaise creep.
Okay.
So I mean what happens is thinkabout it.
You're a young couple.
You started off, you're workinghard because you want to save
for a car, you want to save fora house, then you have a kid and
(26:20):
then you have another kid andnow you're running off to soccer
and you're running off tolessons and you're going here
and you're going there andyou're working and you're moving
all these parts, you're gettingmoved around and it's a year
out goes by, and five years goesby, and 10, and 20, and then
the kids are gone and thesefolks sit across the table from
each other and it's not likethey don't like them or they're
(26:42):
mad at them, it's just thatthey're not connected to them
anymore.
So this sort of inability to dowhat Julie was going to talk
about in a minute, inability tostay connected, to keep that
grease in your engine, so tospeak, leads more often.
That's by far the biggestreason people come to see me.
(27:02):
I just don't, you know, I don'twant to live the last.
I'm 54.
I don't want to live the next25 years like I lived the last
25.
I want to go have fun.
I don't want to live the next25 years like I lived the last
25.
I want to go have fun.
I don't want to be with someonewho just, I don't really know
anymore.
I don't really anything.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah, and we talk about that.
Your relationship can't be likethe elf on the shelf, which is
something you can just put onthe shelf and then get out when
you're ready, or once a year oronce a month.
That relationships don't endurethat very well.
And we have done through ourmarriage, through our 38 plus
(27:36):
years together, is we've alwayshad date time, whether it's a
date night, a date coffee, adate walk, and David was the one
that actually was really goodabout that.
He, you know, even when thekids were little, sometimes we
would put them to bed and thengo sit someplace else in our
house that we usually would sitto make it special, you know, if
(27:57):
we couldn't get a babysitter ora four-year-old, sometimes it
was just she was in the bathtuband I would come sit down on the
floor in the bathtub just so wecould have some quiet time, Not
just so I could see her in thebathroom.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
She's a part of us, by the way, but so we could have
that sort of quiet time andit's different now.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yeah yeah, we always made sure that we were
connecting on a regular basisand, like I said, it doesn't
have to be a date night, itdoesn't have to be a fancy
restaurant, it doesn't have tobe something specific, but
really making time for eachother on at least a weekly basis
.
I can't tell you how manycouples I work with that come in
and they don't remember thelast time they had a date.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Wow, sad.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So sad.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So that's how you protect your own marriage from
malaise.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Yes, we protect, yes, and on a daily basis.
We are also very good aboutchecking in with each other.
You know physically, whetherit's a hello kiss, a goodbye
kiss, or you know how are youDid you sleep okay, how are you
feeling, those kinds of things.
So I would say daily check insare super important too.
And then the weekly date nightsor date days, and then, if you
(29:07):
want to kind of just round itout with a monthly.
What we do is a monthly goalsetting session where we talk
about the state of our union.
Where are we financially, whenare we with the things that we
wanted to do together whetherit's planning a vacation, taking
a vacation, something we wantedto do with our grandkids and we
(29:29):
check in once a month on howwe're doing with our goals.
I hate those things.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
But she's right, we started with a journal that
someone gave us when they wereon a trip.
Oh yeah, and Julie started that, and it can be something that a
lot of people don't really wantto do, particularly at the
beginning, but it's a good idea.
You know, you say to people ifyou own a business, for example,
(29:57):
right, and you have goals forthat business, I want to go from
one store to three, I want togrow from $100,000 in revenues
to a million dollars in revenues, but we don't set goals in our
relationships.
And so if we take care of ourbusiness and our work lives that
(30:18):
way, why wouldn't we try to dothe same with the relationship
that's probably the mostimportant throughout your life,
and that's with your spouse,your partner?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, love that I mean.
It's so, so important becauseif we don't, we just we
naturally will drift apart.
We don't have to do anythingmean and nasty, we just have to
kind of neglect each other andwe'll just naturally drift apart
.
We don't have to do anythingmean and nasty, we just have to
neglect each other and we'lljust naturally drift apart.
Dave and Julia, let's talk alittle bit about a major
betrayal in marriage, and Davekind of alluded to this as well
earlier.
When couples get the rightprofessional help, their
(30:51):
recovery and resilience can bereally inspiring.
I know some couples who've beenthrough that who have bounced
back even stronger.
What are the keys tosuccessfully getting through to
the other side of these painfulseasons of life can throw them
Death of a child adultery,addiction, alcoholism, mental
(31:23):
health issues, things of thatnature.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
And that's what gave birth to our second book, which
is called Secrets of StrongCouples, which I think sort of
flows right into what you'retalking about.
And what we found, and thelaunch off point for that book
was how do these people getthrough?
When I have guys come to myoffice because they had a bad
week you know, had a bad TuesdayI went out.
(31:45):
Yet these folks had their son,they adored their son, having
cancer for seven years.
Yet they're stronger now thanthey were at the beginning.
What did they do?
How did they get through?
What did they do?
How did they get through?
And what we found a lot of itmany, many times had to do with
faith, not just faith from areligious perspective, although
that was a big part of it, butalso faith in each other, right
(32:08):
that they trusted the other todo their part, to do the right
things.
So faith as a major compartmentwas a big thing, and I think
that trust, the willingness tosort of understand, you've got
to row in the same direction.
Those are things you have to doin any number of these issues,
dave, that you're thinking about.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, and the other really important piece to what
we saw in the couples and we seein our own marriage is the, the
connection, really making surethat you stay connected.
And that's through, you knowit's, it's through lots of
things, it's through talking,it's through touching, it's
through, you know, dealing withdifficult things and, um, that
(32:52):
was a major component was thatall of these couples had carved
out some time in their day ortheir week to come together and
pay attention to so it wasn't anaccident, it was intentionality
.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
They like we've got to do things, we've got to
schedule date nights, we've gotto sit down and talk, we've got
to make time for intimacy in ourrelationship.
Because of these outsidestressors, you're going to pull
us apart.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
It sounds like, yeah, I mean it seems like yeah, I
mean, you have a full day,you're exhausted.
What do you mean?
I have a bowl of ice cream andwatch TV, like Tony Soprano used
to do.
I mean, remember this, justmake some ice cream or have a
drink, or just go to sleep orread a book, and unless you put
it on your radar daily, it's notgoing to be there.
(33:38):
I mean, for most of us, formost of us, you have to make
that effort and then it becomes.
You know, it becomes habit,just like everything else, which
is what you want.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You know, is there a particular couple that has
struck you through the years,David and Julie, where you
thought to yourselves okay, now,this is why we do what we do.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
There's lots of couples.
There's lots of couples, but inparticular, we talk about this a
lot, which is that there's alot and you may even know them
or be around them.
There's lots of couples thathave very high highs and very
low lows, and you often see thatwith people where they're like,
(34:21):
you don't know what you'regoing to get with them.
It's like really good or reallybad, and what we see happening
is that a lot of those coupleshave trouble talking about hard
things and then so they sort oflike glaze over, glaze over,
glaze over, and then there'sthis eruption that happens, and
then things are really kind ofcrazy or not great, you know, in
(34:42):
that time, and then they haveto do a lot of work to get back
to, you know, to more of anormal level.
The other thing that I wouldsay you know you don't always
get to choose who you're around,but if you can find other
couples that really like eachother, that are friends and
(35:04):
they're married or they'refriends and they're in a
relationship, hang around thosecouples, because what, what you
kind of see around you is kindof, you know, it's contagious.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
One way or the other, right For better or for worse.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
One way or the other, right it's contagious, and the
thing you know in terms of athought for folks to keep in
mind and this came up when wedid an interview the other day
which is, you know, pick atypical Thursday, friday,
saturday, whatever it is, andyour spouse says, well, what do
you want to do?
And you, saturday, whatever itis, and your spouse says what do
you want to do?
And you say whatever you want,and then you do something and
(35:42):
you're kind of that personreally didn't want to do that,
and so how does that play out?
And so I think that beingspecific, using more specificity
in terms of what your wants,are, you know, I don't want to
go out tonight, I want to watcha movie, or I made an
appointment to get my nails done, or I'm taking my daughter out,
or whatever it is as opposed tojust saying whatever I think.
(36:03):
Specificity although sometimesthat might be different than
what the person wants to do, whoasked you the question
ultimately is better than justsort of this vague, sort of
general, whatever kind ofattitude when it comes to it.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Yeah.
So clarity is kindness Lovely,it's a good one.
And sometimes but sometimes wethink if we're general and we
say we don't care, whatever youwant to do doesn't matter to me,
we think we're being kind, butthat's not really kind because
in the end you're going to beresentful, right.
(36:37):
So it might be better.
I specifically remember thesituation where we have four
daughters and our fourthdaughter was starting her first
day of preschool.
And it was a pretty big momentfor me because I was mostly
staying yeah, I was working inthe nighttime, but mostly with
the kids, on the front line withthe kids and I remember I was
(36:57):
taking her to her first day atpreschool and I was just
imagining all the things I wasgoing to do Maybe go to the
grocery store, maybe meet afriend for coffee, maybe
whatever.
And he goes oh wow, josie'sgoing to preschool, Do you want
to meet for lunch today?
And I looked at him and my eyesgot really wide and I said,
honey, I love you, but no, I donot want to meet you for lunch
(37:20):
today.
I want to go do whatever theheck I want to do.
Unfortunately, it wasn't eatinglunch with me.
No, it was not, but it was likeyou know, if I had just been
like oh sure, you know, and methim for lunch, I probably would
have been resentful, because Ireally looking forward to my
time.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
And then, David, we say please don't do me any
favors, right?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I, frankly it was.
It was better that she told methat than we were at Lawrence.
It could have been grumpy.
Yeah, I would have been.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Please don't do that Right.
Clarity is kindness.
I think that's really brilliant.
We should.
And then let's work, david andJulie.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Yeah, the other thing we always say is that clarity
is kindness.
We always say our goal is toput David out of business.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, oh, that's good , that's wise.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah, we have to put couples together and keep them
out of the divorce.
That's what we're working herefor.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, yeah.
I am grateful for you, david Ithink we do grateful for good
divorce attorneys.
Sometimes we just have to makea new decision.
I don't know, I'd like to seethat, but I love, I get the idea
.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, hey, dave and Julie, there's a question that,
in particular, we like to askeach of our guests here on the
Stronger Marriage Connectionpodcast and I'm in honor of the
name of the podcast We'd love toask what is the key to a
stronger marriage connection,and there are all kinds of keys.
So what is maybe a key?
Julie, start with you and thenDavid.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Having fun together.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Amen.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Enjoying each other, staying playful, staying, you
know, not sporadic, what's theword that I'm thinking of?
Doing nothing quickly withoutthinking about it.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, keeping it fun, yeah great I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Absolutely Big fan of that, Daniel.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
So for me, which I have struggled with but I'm
working hard at it, is assumegood intentions.
When your spouse does somethingthat strikes you as irritating
or directed to you and theinitial response is to be
defensive or to fight back.
Assume that what they said orwhat they did was not to be
(39:33):
something negative.
Assume that it was positive,but maybe it came across in a
different.
So assume, I think, assuminggood intentions, which again is
harder to do for me a lot, butI'm working out, as I said.
I think that's an importantpiece to a successful
relationship.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Oh man great, both excellent tips, thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Where can our listeners find out more about
you, david and Julie?
Your podcast, your books, othertremendous resources for
couples and of course we'regoing to attach those to our
show notes but Secrets of StrongCouples, your latest book,
where can we go?
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Sure.
So we have our website,wwwthebulletscom, where
everything is there.
Two books you can find anywhere, that's Secrets of Strong
Couples and the Five CoreConversations for Couples.
Our podcast is Conversationsfor Couples, which we just
launched in early 2024 and comesout every two weeks.
(40:26):
And we are on all social mediaplatforms Instagram, Facebook
Pinterest.
We have a YouTube channel andLinkedIn as well.
So we're all over the placeworking hard to try to help use
what we have learned, bothprofessionally and personally,
(40:47):
to sort of you know if we canhelp folks here or there.
That's kind of what this is allabout for us.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Oh, that's awesome.
We'll be sure for our listeners.
We'll put those in our shownotes, with all the links to all
of those.
We'll be sure to check thoseout.
And before we let you go, we'dlike to ask all of our guests
another question, that is, theirtakeaway of the day.
Is there a take-home message,number one, or is there a nugget
that you want us to leave uswith before we wrap up?
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I would say make your relationship a priority.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Awesome, well said yeah, David, what about you?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
It's certainly hard to top that.
I would tell folks look forward, don't look back.
So don't keep bringing up whathappened before so that history
somehow repeats itself.
Push that in the rear viewmirror and try to push your
relationship forward.
(41:42):
Look forward, don't look back.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, excellent Great points, liz.
What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
My favorite clarity is kindness.
I thought that was reallybeautiful and I loved how Julie
said it to David.
It's like oh honey, I know Ilove you and I was hoping to do
anything.
I darn well, please, now thatour youngest is in preschool.
Yes, oh, I thought that wasjust so well started, it was
very clear.
What about you, David?
What's the golden nugget foryou during our time together
(42:09):
with the Bullets?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, you know, we haven't had very many attorneys
on here, so it's interestingthat perspective, david.
Yes, adultery is out there andcheating and finances and all
these other things that willhappen.
But man, that lack of condition, the communication, the regular
intentionality and making surethat you're showing that love,
(42:30):
expressing that making time foreach other in that, yeah, that's
just really hit home for metoday, or your will, naturally.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
You pick this person for a reason.
Most times it wasn't anemergent reason, although that
happens this person for a reason, to be your partner in life,
for a reason.
So don't let one little detourkeep you off the highway.
Push back on or at least try itand I do try to with most folks
(43:00):
, not with everyone.
Sometimes when folks come to meit's clear that there's nothing
.
There's no advice I can givethem or no recommendations to
mental health folks or counselor, pastor, whomever that I can
give them that's going to help.
But most of the time I do askthem to explore that before they
embark on what usually is apainful kind of process.
Even in the best of worlds ispainful.
(43:22):
If it's not painful, youshouldn't have gotten married to
begin with.
There's got to be some pain inthe divorce.
To me there's some pain whereyou shouldn't have ever said I
do.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Wow, Well said.
Wow.
David and Julie the Bullets, ithas been such a pleasure to
have you on the podcast.
Thanks so much for making timefor us today.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Our pleasure.
Thank you for having us.
This is great.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Thanks so much for joining us, friends, and we'll
see you again next time.
Another episode of the StrongerMarriage Connection podcast.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
And remember it's the small and simple things that
create a stronger marriageconnection.
That create a stronger marriageconnection.
Take good care of yourselvesand each other.
See you soon.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram,
(44:23):
at Stronger Marriage Live, andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved, which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(44:43):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
(45:04):
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
On today's episode, dr Liz and I welcome to the show
David and Julie Bullitt.
David works as a divorce lawyerand Julie as a couples
therapist, and together theyshare unique insights about
conflict conversation and keysto commitment for busy couples
pulled in multiple directions.
They also share practical tipsfor increasing resilience and
overcoming struggles andmistakes.
(00:25):
Julie and David Bullitt are thepowerhouse duo behind the
Bullitts she's a licensedmarriage and family therapist,
he's a divorce lawyer andtogether they've authored two
award-winning books the FiveCore, conversations for Couples
and Secrets of Strong Couples.
As hosts of Conversations forCouples, the podcast and
(00:50):
frequent DC area TV guests, theyshare insights from their
professional expertise and 38plus years of marriage, parents
to four daughters, twobiological and two adopted.
The Bullets offer a uniqueperspective on relationships
from both sides of the aisle.
We hope you enjoy the show ofthe aisle.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
We hope you enjoy the show.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection.
We've got the psychologist andthe professor, respectively Dr
Liz Hale and Dr Dave Schramm,together.
We have dedicated our life'swork to bringing you the best we
have in valid marital research,along with a few tips and tools
(01:25):
to help you create the marriageof your dreams.
Okay, dave, so what happenswhen you take a top divorce
lawyer who's married to atalented family therapist?
I mean, it sounds like a joke,right?
What happens when you go into abar and you that's right, we're
in.
But the big question is you takethis beautiful couple, talented
therapist, top divorce lawyer,at the end of the day, close the
(01:47):
door.
What do they really say?
What's really on their minds?
Where do their specialtiesmerge and where do they clash?
Professionally, david and JulieBullitt have seen life's most
difficult challenges, fromaddiction, infidelity, mental
and physical diagnosis andtrauma.
They have also even weatheredtheir own challenges, like most
(02:07):
of us do at home, includingraising four beautiful daughters
, two biological and two adopted, even dealing with addiction
and mental health issues intheir own home.
Well, what they've learnedabout saving a marriage could
fill a book or two, and it doesactually.
Dave, we're going to get intothat and so much more with David
and Julie Bullitt.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, our friends.
(02:28):
Thank you so much for having us.
We're looking forward to it.
It's just a joy.
You've been married for over 35years.
Did I get that right?
What's the number?
38, not that we're counting,yeah, 38.
I'm so glad I asked three years, not three more years.
Speaker 3 (02:45):
They do my jerk I wait to tell is the 17 happiest
years of my life, which ofcourse is a joke.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
And then I give him an elbow and say that yeah, yeah
, but in some ways it's truebecause, as you know, because
this is your realm, marriage isreally and it's not all easy and
not all beautiful, so there aredefinitely hard parts to being
married.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I think that's what makes you two so incredibly
valuable is your vulnerability,your honesty, your candor To say
you know 17 years of those.
Is that what you're saying,david?
17 was really good.
It is a joke, I know it's ajoke, but nonetheless I do kind
of get that.
But I got married later in lifeso I tell you every year I was
just so proud of you know what Imean.
(03:31):
I just remember like firstthree years is like great Six
years, okay, phew, I think wedid.
I think we're now getting pastthat hump that Dr John Gottman
talks about Now.
It Dr John Gottman talks aboutnow has been almost a dozen
years and I am just proud ofevery single one, because it
wasn't easy.
You're right, and I put a lotof you know love, sweat and
tears into that.
What do you think for the twoof you has been the biggest key
(03:54):
to sustaining your marriagethrough all of life's highs and
lows?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I would say being able to talk about things,
whether they're, you know,positive or negative.
So obviously communication,laughing, I mean humor is a huge
part of our relationship.
But we joke about things thatyou know, hard things sometimes,
and you know sometimes we'll go.
(04:19):
Oh, maybe that's too soon tojoke about that, but I think for
us it's been.
You know, and really the valueof sticking together, right,
like you know, we can have badtimes, but no, like we're in it
for the long haul.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
I think you know, from my perspective, to be a
little bit more specific youknow, particularly when our kids
were raising our kids, it wasand we talk about the wide load
in a marriage.
But it really is sort of tryingto understanding when your
spouse has kind of had enoughand needs to get pulled along.
You think of the wide load whenyou're out on the highway and
you see the big trucks.
(04:55):
It says wide load on the backand you got to be careful at
wide load and there's a carthat's pulling it.
So I think what we were able todo for the most part not always
by any stretch, but for themost part was able when the kids
were younger and we had someissues we're happy to discuss
with one of our daughters andthe ability to just sort of
understand intuitively that theother needed a breath, needed
(05:18):
you to step in, needed me tostep in, or she needed her to
step in.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Having each other's backs right, like I got you and
I can take it if you need me to.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
What a great combo team you guys are already.
I can just sense it and feel it.
David and Julie, how did yourI'm curious your professional
backgrounds you as an attorney,david, and you as a family
therapist, julie?
How did it shape yourrelationships on the home front?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, I'll start this , don't take turns.
So for me and in the old days,pre-pandemic and I'm going to
the office every day and I'mseeing clients daily or going to
court, and nothing I do duringthe course of an 8 or 10 or
12-hour day doesn't have to dowith dispute debate arguing.
So when I get home, what do youthink is the last thing I want
(06:10):
to do?
And so I think, in fairness andI'm not saying that to be
particularly solicitous, but infairness I just kind of had
enough by the time I got home.
It was if she needed me to dothis, sure we want to talk about
this, that's fine.
If she needed me to do this,sure we want to talk about this,
that's fine.
When the kids need to go here,no problem.
I just the desire to avoidconflict was, I think, certainly
(06:35):
again when our kids wereyounger.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
It's different now that we're almost empty nesters,
but I think that was a bigthing for me, right, not
sweating the small stuff.
And I think the flip side towhat David's talking about is
that we you know what I see inmy office families that are
having these couples that arehaving difficulties, and what
he's seeing, which is peoplereally having difficulties and
(06:57):
getting out of relationships, isa sense of gratitude, of
gratitude and a sense that youknow, what we're kind of
enduring at our, you know, inour home, within our family, is,
you know, like it.
Sometimes it stinks, sometimesyou don't like it, you don't
want it, but in, you know, inperspective, it's not that bad
(07:20):
right, we can get through, youknow, a messy room, or we can
get through a screaming matchand repair relationship
afterwards, and so there's allthese things that sort of come
into play.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Do you mind if we probe just alittle bit?
Were there ever any momentswhen you seriously questioned
your own marriage?
And I think people will comeinto crossroads and arguments
and we're going differentdirections.
How do you navigate those times?
I think a lot of couples arethere right now, If not now.
They've been there, they'vedone that or they're headed
there.
What do you recommend?
(07:53):
How did you navigate it and howcan other couples navigate
those rough waters?
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Yeah.
So first of all, I want to say,even though, as you guys are
too trained professionals, thetrained professional piece goes
out the window a lot when you'rewithin your own relationship.
So I may know to use anempathetic response, I may know
to come to your level, I mayknow to give positive
(08:19):
reinforcement, but sometimes,when you're triggered or you're
having a moment, you forget allof those wonderful techniques.
So I just want to say that thatit doesn't make things easier.
You know, necessarily, that I'ma therapist, right?
No?
Speaker 3 (08:35):
And to answer your question, we did I mean
certainly from.
I think I did talk for Julie toa certain degree too.
We had two areas in our lifeduring the course of our
marriage.
Now, thankfully, the last 10,15 years, we haven't struggled
in these areas particularly ourkids have grown and financial
issues have changed.
But we had one of our fourchildren who was particularly
(08:56):
challenged and challenging is anice way of putting it and Julie
, the therapist, would thinkthat we would need to treat her
in a certain fashion from amental health perspective, with
medication and treatment and soforth.
And me, the divorce lawyer, whogrew up, you know, in the
playground, just said you knowshe's a jerk, you know you got
to deal with a jerk like I dealtwith me.
So we had a lot of rubbing upagainst each other over that
(09:21):
issue and also we had, in part,resulting from that and
resulting just from our badbehavior, we got ourselves in a
financial hole, which led to alot of disagreement, a lot of
stress, a lot of looking at eachother like maybe we ought to
look a different direction.
But, to answer your questionspecifically, we did deal with
(09:48):
those issues.
I'm happy to talk about any ofthat that you want to.
Ultimately, we were able andJulie came up with this, we were
able to lean in as opposed toleaning out, and the natural
reaction when someone isirritating you in a relationship
, rubbing you the wrong way,making you angry, is to say I'm
going to get out of here for awhile.
(10:09):
But what Julie I hate to sayshe taught me because she's
going to hold this on over myhead forever.
But what Julie sort of taughtus and me was the better thing
many times is not to do that, isto sort of lean into the issue
in a nice way, not in a waythat's going to make things
worse, and so we had our fairshare.
(10:31):
But those are the two big areasrelative to our children, one
in particular, and relative tofinances, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
And then the other thing that we talk about we work
with couples, we coach couplesand we've written a couple of
books on strategies to helpcouples, and one of the things
that we talk about is takingfive minutes and not a week, and
what?
that reference is there aretimes when you need to take a
step away a few minutes ifyou're feeling triggered or
(11:01):
dysregulated, but to always comeback to it right, like to not
sweep it under the rug, becausewe know so many times that
couples that don't talk aboutthings, that don't deal with
things, end up in his office.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Thanks, sure yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You see it up close and personal, you know, in your
latest book, award-winning book,I might add the Five Core
Conversations for Couples.
What are the five areas youcover?
Just maybe briefly, and then toeach of you if you could speak
to what's the most crucial toyou, if there happens to be one.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Yeah, so that book, which was our first book our
second book is Secrets ofStrumming Couples, which took a
little bit different tack, butthat first book was actually
born.
We were on the beach, she washaving a glass of wine and I was
having a beer, and I don't knowhow the discussion started it
was about 10 years or so ago nowin which we're like we deal
(11:52):
with the same stuff, right, thesame problems come in for
different reasons and, generallyspeaking, you're talking about
what are the biggest areas ofpeople in a relationship where
they have conflict.
Right, it's finances, it'sparenting, right, it's intimacy,
and then it's these sort ofmore general sort of we call
(12:13):
them building block types ofthings.
And so we started fleshing thatsort of stuff out and that's
what built that book.
And that book is really itreally is a 190-page
conversation between the two ofus, because we talk about these
issues, and I think that thereason that that struck home
(12:36):
with a lot of people is whatJulie referenced earlier is and
we'll tell you a funny story ishere's a professional divorce
lawyer, professional familytherapist, you know, mental
health licensed clinical socialworker.
What kind of problems couldthey have?
The fact is we had a lot of.
We still have, but sharingthose, I think did touch a nerve
(12:56):
with folks.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Yeah, yeah, because we we talk about what we see in
our offices, but we also pointthe camera at ourselves, which
is okay, this is what you know,this is what went on with us in
this area.
So we also dive into sort ofthe beginnings of relationships.
We call it the building andfilling of the relationship.
What does the foundation looklike?
How do you guys communicate?
How do you navigate difficultsituations?
(13:19):
What is conflict?
What is you know?
What is healthy conflict inrelationship?
Speaker 3 (13:24):
look like People come to relationships from different
places, right, Even oftentimesit has to do with faith.
You know, people come torelationships with different
backgrounds when it comes tofaith.
They come to relationship withdifferent backgrounds when it
comes to finances, you know, andthose, and therefore you think
about life in those areasdifferently.
And if you haven't talked aboutthat as you're launching, then
(13:48):
when you're up there in thestratosphere trying to work
together and one person, forexample, is a big saver and the
other person wants to spend, allof a sudden you see conflict.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, man.
So I'd love to hear more thefive core conversations.
I mean, are you talking aboutthe money ones?
Are those some of the ones thatyou're talking about Intimacy,
or did you touch on some ofthose?
Speaker 4 (14:25):
the chapters.
One of the core conversationsis balance, the balance that you
have between yourself, yourself-care, and then what we like
to call self-care, and thensort of work-life balance.
How does all that work and fitinto the world?
Speaker 3 (14:38):
Each section has several chapters in it that deal
with that particular issue thatwe all deal with in
relationships.
Whenever you get married inlife.
Dr Liz, yes, other than maybethe parenting part, I don't know
.
Yeah, but you know, wheneveryou develop a relationship,
these are main areas of conflict.
I know Liz is married, dave, Idon't know for you.
(15:00):
Yeah, if you look back on yourtime married and think about
where do we have disagreements,you know that's where they fall
yeah yeah, oftentimes you'reindeed right yeah, yeah, that's
right, we've been married.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, 26 years.
We had a daughter.
Uh just actually gave back fromher honeymoon yesterday.
Uh, yeah, we can.
In cancun we have anotherdaughter who's uh gonna get make
us grandparents in July.
She's been married.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Yeah, we're going to have to think of this.
So these cruises I mean this islike real life stuff.
Right, these are things thatthey're going to have to
navigate right at the beginningstages of marriage, that you
really need to get on the samepage with these important
critical topics that can bevery-.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A lot of people, as you know, they kind of just wait
.
They say, okay, we'll deal withit when it comes up.
And raising kids is another.
It's a perfect example whereit's just a minefield for
looking at things differently,parenting differently,
appropriately andinappropriately, much of the
time too.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Oh yeah, yeah.
I'm curious Do you everdisagree professionally about
what a couple should do in theirmarriage, and how do you
resolve those differences?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Yeah, that's funny.
You should ask that because wedo.
We do a lot of like fun thingson social media and we've done
something that we call should,should you, should we stay or
should we go?
Yeah, and we have couples writein different questions or
scenarios and then we'll hold upour card like stay, go.
(16:32):
No kidding.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
She stays 95% of the time.
Yeah, I'm go 50-50.
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
So it's funny because I really, as a family therapist
, I always try to see thatthere's a solution in the
situation, and David oftentimeswould be like they need to get
out, like that's not okay.
Yeah, so that's funny that youasked that question, but we do
look at things differently.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
So what's an interesting dynamic?
So when we started doing thissort of couples coaching
together, you know people whowould interview us would say you
know, when are we going to talkto a divorce wife?
What do you bring?
You know, and it's a reasonablequestion.
You know, and Julie and I dolook at things differently, but
I think what I bring to thetable in that scenario is all
(17:19):
that I have seen that's gonewrong.
So if I I'm seeing it in theseconversations and these sessions
with folks, I tend to point itout and so I think what people
most people have enjoyed somehave not, it's not been a good
fit for them have enjoyed, whereJulie will say this is where I
think we are, this is what Ithink you might consider and I'm
like no, I don't think, I thinkyou ought to look at it this
(17:41):
way, and the fact that wedisagree I think is a helpful
thing in that sort of coachingenvironment.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Not all the time, but sometimes.
Yeah.
The other thing that's funnyabout him is I will hear this
divorce lawyer on the phone,because my office is down there,
his is over here.
I'll sometimes hear him tellclients or talk to clients about
going to therapy.
Have you tried maritalcounseling?
Have you thought about doingthis, or why don't you take a
(18:11):
little time and then come backto me and see if you can work
this out which I don't know ifthat's unique to him, being
married to a therapist, but Ithink it's kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yeah, yeah, what a team yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
That's great.
I know a few divorce attorneyswho will do that or refer them
to discernment counseling.
Refer them back to me, and I'mjust so inspired by that.
I think attorneys really have avery valuable take on this
whole thing called marriage anddivorce.
So I'm always encouragingcouples, especially those that
are leaning out.
(18:42):
It's like sit down, talk to adivorce attorney and I'm doing
that in good faith that thatdivorce attorney will say this
is not going to be easy.
Let's talk about how this looksfrom my perspective, yeah.
But, I'm careful who I referthem to.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
We'll be right back after this brief message and
we're back.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Let's dive right in yeah, well, people often ask me
this next question, david andjulie, so I'm going to pose it
to you.
But as professionals, you seeeverything like we talked about,
from marital dysfunction todivorce.
How do you keep it fromaffecting your own marriage or
does it motivate you just theother direction maybe?
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Well.
So it's more difficult in someways now than it was when we
weren't doing this business thatwe have together.
So, as you know, we've got thebooks and Julie and I do our own
podcast and we have our ownfull-time jobs podcast and we
have our own full-time jobs.
So it has become I have found Ican't speak for her more
(20:03):
difficult to stop the businessfrom bleeding into personal life
.
So we might be done with theworkday but we still have other
of our work to do, and then,when I think we're done, she
might still be on the phone orher computer responding to
people or doing whatever wemight be doing on social media
or with our podcast or whateverand that does.
Sometimes it takes a realeffort to say, okay, we're not
going to do that.
(20:23):
And one of the things that wecame up with and you asked about
specifics earlier is we came upwith this NoTek 90.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And sometimes it's.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
NoTek 30.
Notek 30,.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
NoTek 45, whatever you think you can, even if it's
started.
Notek 15, whatever it would beif it's.
You're at home on the couch,phones are off, computers are
always off and you're justhanging out.
Maybe you're having a cup ofcoffee, maybe you're having a
drink, maybe you're watching ashow together.
That's okay, taking a walk, itdoesn't matter something,
(20:55):
without paying attention tooutside influences.
I mean and and um, you folksare out west in utah and here.
You know we go out on asaturday night and you look
around and people are out foryoung, old, it doesn't matter
what age on their phones,looking at their phones.
Speaker 4 (21:13):
You're on a date on their phone and we're like what
is the connection piece?
So I think the question thatyou asked it was really multiple
questions which is, how do youall this stuff that's coming in,
all of these issues that yousee regularly in your offices,
in your business, how does itaffect you?
And I think in part we answeredthe question related to
(21:35):
technology and how that has beenchallenging for us and for so
many people, because weconstantly have it.
It's not like we leave it atthe office, it's in our hands
most of the time.
In our hands most of the time,but also emotionally there's
that piece too.
Is, you know, when you seepeople in tough situations, when
you see horrific sometimes youknow situations with people, how
(22:00):
do you then, you know, like,pack it up and, you know, show
up smiling or show up with notworrying about that person?
And I think you know, as atherapist, most people will tell
you is that they become like alittle bit calloused in some way
, is like we kind of get used tohearing, you know, traumatic
(22:22):
stories and difficultinformation.
But we also have really goodcompartments right.
So we have those, you know,compassionate moments with our
clients, and then we take thoseand we put them someplace and we
keep them so that we can thenshow up for our partner, for our
kids, for our own.
It's an easy thing to do, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Really, I love what you're talking about there.
To me it comes to my attention.
I like to say lack of attentionleads to loss of connection and
there's.
I would argue that at no otherperiod in the history of
humankind have there been morethings grasping for our
attention, our emotionalattention, our physical
(23:04):
attention.
Man that can drive couplesapart video games, technology,
sports, whatever.
It is man, it's a balance, andI think it's really difficult,
especially today.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
When I grew up.
Here's a good example when Igrew up and I had a question
about something that was inschool and I had to find out the
answer, my father hadencyclopedias in his office.
The answer my father hadencyclopedias in his office.
He would bring me into hisoffice and help me find any
encyclopedia.
I mean, there were books andthey cost I don't know how much
they cost.
(23:36):
And then you got thesupplements that you had to grow
Every year, every year.
But that was a time you spentthat time with your parents,
right, and now don't need to dothat.
Pick up your phone and say whatis the civil law?
Where did this?
Whatever it might be and it'sso easy and so much at hand that
(23:57):
it does take effort- to push it.
Speaker 4 (24:01):
Yeah, the connection is definitely the connection in
all areas, whether it's you'reusing the Starbucks app and
you're running in to get yourcoffee, versus waiting in line
and talking to the person makingit or the person behind you.
That loss of connection iseverywhere and it is in
relationships, within families,within couples, and it's really
(24:24):
difficult.
So it's important for you knowyour listeners, to hear you know
whether you do a no tech 15, notech 30.
I know some families that turnoff technology, you know, after
a certain hour in their family,and I think that that's a great
strategy really paying attentionto making time without that
(24:46):
technology.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Another thing I often hear couples mention.
I'll just ask them hey, how areyou doing?
And one of the most commonanswers now in recent years is
like oh man, it's so busy.
I'm busy, whether it's busyrunning kids around or busy or
both working, it's just so busy.
Tell us a little bit aboutmaybe some common communication.
You know breakdowns or we'regoing in different directions.
Midterm, long-termrelationships I mean, what's
(25:12):
happening today?
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Well, let me start from the divorce lawyer
standpoint and then Julie cantalk about what really answers
your question.
But to sort of overlay for youis I get asked all the time
what's the main reason thatpeople get divorced, what's the
biggest reason?
And everybody always thinksit's adultery, it's cheating or
(25:36):
it's financial Somebody was notbeing honest financially.
Those are the two big guessesthat people make all the time.
But the reality is that neitherof those are true.
They happen for sure, but thebiggest reason that I see and I
represent my practice is now 75-.
Those are true, they happen forsure, but the biggest reason
that I see and I represent mypractice is now 75-ish percent
women, but regardless of gender.
(25:58):
What you see is this malaise andit grows over time.
So if you use this, you'regoing to have to.
I call it malaise creep.
Okay.
So I mean what happens is thinkabout it.
You're a young couple.
You started off, you're workinghard because you want to save
for a car, you want to save fora house, then you have a kid and
(26:20):
then you have another kid andnow you're running off to soccer
and you're running off tolessons and you're going here
and you're going there andyou're working and you're moving
all these parts, you're gettingmoved around and it's a year
out goes by, and five years goesby, and 10, and 20, and then
the kids are gone and thesefolks sit across the table from
each other and it's not likethey don't like them or they're
(26:42):
mad at them, it's just thatthey're not connected to them
anymore.
So this sort of inability to dowhat Julie was going to talk
about in a minute, inability tostay connected, to keep that
grease in your engine, so tospeak, leads more often.
That's by far the biggestreason people come to see me.
(27:02):
I just don't, you know, I don'twant to live the last.
I'm 54.
I don't want to live the next25 years like I lived the last
25.
I want to go have fun.
I don't want to live the next25 years like I lived the last
25.
I want to go have fun.
I don't want to be with someonewho just, I don't really know
anymore.
I don't really anything.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Yeah, and we talk about that.
Your relationship can't be likethe elf on the shelf, which is
something you can just put onthe shelf and then get out when
you're ready, or once a year oronce a month.
That relationships don't endurethat very well.
And we have done through ourmarriage, through our 38 plus
(27:36):
years together, is we've alwayshad date time, whether it's a
date night, a date coffee, adate walk, and David was the one
that actually was really goodabout that.
He, you know, even when thekids were little, sometimes we
would put them to bed and thengo sit someplace else in our
house that we usually would sitto make it special, you know, if
(27:57):
we couldn't get a babysitter ora four-year-old, sometimes it
was just she was in the bathtuband I would come sit down on the
floor in the bathtub just so wecould have some quiet time, Not
just so I could see her in thebathroom.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
She's a part of us, by the way, but so we could have
that sort of quiet time andit's different now.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yeah yeah, we always made sure that we were
connecting on a regular basisand, like I said, it doesn't
have to be a date night, itdoesn't have to be a fancy
restaurant, it doesn't have tobe something specific, but
really making time for eachother on at least a weekly basis
.
I can't tell you how manycouples I work with that come in
and they don't remember thelast time they had a date.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
Wow, sad.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So sad.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So that's how you protect your own marriage from
malaise.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
Yes, we protect, yes, and on a daily basis.
We are also very good aboutchecking in with each other.
You know physically, whetherit's a hello kiss, a goodbye
kiss, or you know how are youDid you sleep okay, how are you
feeling, those kinds of things.
So I would say daily check insare super important too.
And then the weekly date nightsor date days, and then, if you
(29:07):
want to kind of just round itout with a monthly.
What we do is a monthly goalsetting session where we talk
about the state of our union.
Where are we financially, whenare we with the things that we
wanted to do together whetherit's planning a vacation, taking
a vacation, something we wantedto do with our grandkids and we
(29:29):
check in once a month on howwe're doing with our goals.
I hate those things.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
But she's right, we started with a journal that
someone gave us when they wereon a trip.
Oh yeah, and Julie started that, and it can be something that a
lot of people don't really wantto do, particularly at the
beginning, but it's a good idea.
You know, you say to people ifyou own a business, for example,
(29:57):
right, and you have goals forthat business, I want to go from
one store to three, I want togrow from $100,000 in revenues
to a million dollars in revenues, but we don't set goals in our
relationships.
And so if we take care of ourbusiness and our work lives that
(30:18):
way, why wouldn't we try to dothe same with the relationship
that's probably the mostimportant throughout your life,
and that's with your spouse,your partner?
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, love that I mean.
It's so, so important becauseif we don't, we just we
naturally will drift apart.
We don't have to do anythingmean and nasty, we just have to
kind of neglect each other andwe'll just naturally drift apart
.
We don't have to do anythingmean and nasty, we just have to
neglect each other and we'lljust naturally drift apart.
Dave and Julia, let's talk alittle bit about a major
betrayal in marriage, and Davekind of alluded to this as well
earlier.
When couples get the rightprofessional help, their
(30:51):
recovery and resilience can bereally inspiring.
I know some couples who've beenthrough that who have bounced
back even stronger.
What are the keys tosuccessfully getting through to
the other side of these painfulseasons of life can throw them
Death of a child adultery,addiction, alcoholism, mental
(31:23):
health issues, things of thatnature.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
And that's what gave birth to our second book, which
is called Secrets of StrongCouples, which I think sort of
flows right into what you'retalking about.
And what we found, and thelaunch off point for that book
was how do these people getthrough?
When I have guys come to myoffice because they had a bad
week you know, had a bad TuesdayI went out.
(31:45):
Yet these folks had their son,they adored their son, having
cancer for seven years.
Yet they're stronger now thanthey were at the beginning.
What did they do?
How did they get through?
What did they do?
How did they get through?
And what we found a lot of itmany, many times had to do with
faith, not just faith from areligious perspective, although
that was a big part of it, butalso faith in each other, right
(32:08):
that they trusted the other todo their part, to do the right
things.
So faith as a major compartmentwas a big thing, and I think
that trust, the willingness tosort of understand, you've got
to row in the same direction.
Those are things you have to doin any number of these issues,
dave, that you're thinking about.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Yeah, and the other really important piece to what
we saw in the couples and we seein our own marriage is the, the
connection, really making surethat you stay connected.
And that's through, you knowit's, it's through lots of
things, it's through talking,it's through touching, it's
through, you know, dealing withdifficult things and, um, that
(32:52):
was a major component was thatall of these couples had carved
out some time in their day ortheir week to come together and
pay attention to so it wasn't anaccident, it was intentionality
.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
They like we've got to do things, we've got to
schedule date nights, we've gotto sit down and talk, we've got
to make time for intimacy in ourrelationship.
Because of these outsidestressors, you're going to pull
us apart.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
It sounds like, yeah, I mean it seems like yeah, I
mean, you have a full day,you're exhausted.
What do you mean?
I have a bowl of ice cream andwatch TV, like Tony Soprano used
to do.
I mean, remember this, justmake some ice cream or have a
drink, or just go to sleep orread a book, and unless you put
it on your radar daily, it's notgoing to be there.
(33:38):
I mean, for most of us, formost of us, you have to make
that effort and then it becomes.
You know, it becomes habit,just like everything else, which
is what you want.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You know, is there a particular couple that has
struck you through the years,David and Julie, where you
thought to yourselves okay, now,this is why we do what we do.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
There's lots of couples.
There's lots of couples, but inparticular, we talk about this a
lot, which is that there's alot and you may even know them
or be around them.
There's lots of couples thathave very high highs and very
low lows, and you often see thatwith people where they're like,
(34:21):
you don't know what you'regoing to get with them.
It's like really good or reallybad, and what we see happening
is that a lot of those coupleshave trouble talking about hard
things and then so they sort oflike glaze over, glaze over,
glaze over, and then there'sthis eruption that happens, and
then things are really kind ofcrazy or not great, you know, in
(34:42):
that time, and then they haveto do a lot of work to get back
to, you know, to more of anormal level.
The other thing that I wouldsay you know you don't always
get to choose who you're around,but if you can find other
couples that really like eachother, that are friends and
(35:04):
they're married or they'refriends and they're in a
relationship, hang around thosecouples, because what, what you
kind of see around you is kindof, you know, it's contagious.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
One way or the other, right For better or for worse.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
One way or the other, right it's contagious, and the
thing you know in terms of athought for folks to keep in
mind and this came up when wedid an interview the other day
which is, you know, pick atypical Thursday, friday,
saturday, whatever it is, andyour spouse says, well, what do
you want to do?
And you, saturday, whatever itis, and your spouse says what do
you want to do?
And you say whatever you want,and then you do something and
(35:42):
you're kind of that personreally didn't want to do that,
and so how does that play out?
And so I think that beingspecific, using more specificity
in terms of what your wants,are, you know, I don't want to
go out tonight, I want to watcha movie, or I made an
appointment to get my nails done, or I'm taking my daughter out,
or whatever it is as opposed tojust saying whatever I think.
(36:03):
Specificity although sometimesthat might be different than
what the person wants to do, whoasked you the question
ultimately is better than justsort of this vague, sort of
general, whatever kind ofattitude when it comes to it.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
Yeah.
So clarity is kindness Lovely,it's a good one.
And sometimes but sometimes wethink if we're general and we
say we don't care, whatever youwant to do doesn't matter to me,
we think we're being kind, butthat's not really kind because
in the end you're going to beresentful, right.
(36:37):
So it might be better.
I specifically remember thesituation where we have four
daughters and our fourthdaughter was starting her first
day of preschool.
And it was a pretty big momentfor me because I was mostly
staying yeah, I was working inthe nighttime, but mostly with
the kids, on the front line withthe kids and I remember I was
(36:57):
taking her to her first day atpreschool and I was just
imagining all the things I wasgoing to do Maybe go to the
grocery store, maybe meet afriend for coffee, maybe
whatever.
And he goes oh wow, josie'sgoing to preschool, Do you want
to meet for lunch today?
And I looked at him and my eyesgot really wide and I said,
honey, I love you, but no, I donot want to meet you for lunch
(37:20):
today.
I want to go do whatever theheck I want to do.
Unfortunately, it wasn't eatinglunch with me.
No, it was not, but it was likeyou know, if I had just been
like oh sure, you know, and methim for lunch, I probably would
have been resentful, because Ireally looking forward to my
time.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
And then, David, we say please don't do me any
favors, right?
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I, frankly it was.
It was better that she told methat than we were at Lawrence.
It could have been grumpy.
Yeah, I would have been.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Please don't do that Right.
Clarity is kindness.
I think that's really brilliant.
We should.
And then let's work, david andJulie.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
Yeah, the other thing we always say is that clarity
is kindness.
We always say our goal is toput David out of business.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, oh, that's good , that's wise.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
Yeah, we have to put couples together and keep them
out of the divorce.
That's what we're working herefor.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Yeah, yeah.
I am grateful for you, david Ithink we do grateful for good
divorce attorneys.
Sometimes we just have to makea new decision.
I don't know, I'd like to seethat, but I love, I get the idea
.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, hey, dave and Julie, there's a question that,
in particular, we like to askeach of our guests here on the
Stronger Marriage Connectionpodcast and I'm in honor of the
name of the podcast We'd love toask what is the key to a
stronger marriage connection,and there are all kinds of keys.
So what is maybe a key?
Julie, start with you and thenDavid.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Having fun together.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Amen.
Speaker 4 (38:50):
Enjoying each other, staying playful, staying, you
know, not sporadic, what's theword that I'm thinking of?
Doing nothing quickly withoutthinking about it.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yeah, keeping it fun, yeah great I love it.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Absolutely Big fan of that, Daniel.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (39:09):
So for me, which I have struggled with but I'm
working hard at it, is assumegood intentions.
When your spouse does somethingthat strikes you as irritating
or directed to you and theinitial response is to be
defensive or to fight back.
Assume that what they said orwhat they did was not to be
(39:33):
something negative.
Assume that it was positive,but maybe it came across in a
different.
So assume, I think, assuminggood intentions, which again is
harder to do for me a lot, butI'm working out, as I said.
I think that's an importantpiece to a successful
relationship.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Oh man great, both excellent tips, thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Where can our listeners find out more about
you, david and Julie?
Your podcast, your books, othertremendous resources for
couples and of course we'regoing to attach those to our
show notes but Secrets of StrongCouples, your latest book,
where can we go?
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Sure.
So we have our website,wwwthebulletscom, where
everything is there.
Two books you can find anywhere, that's Secrets of Strong
Couples and the Five CoreConversations for Couples.
Our podcast is Conversationsfor Couples, which we just
launched in early 2024 and comesout every two weeks.
(40:26):
And we are on all social mediaplatforms Instagram, Facebook
Pinterest.
We have a YouTube channel andLinkedIn as well.
So we're all over the placeworking hard to try to help use
what we have learned, bothprofessionally and personally,
(40:47):
to sort of you know if we canhelp folks here or there.
That's kind of what this is allabout for us.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Oh, that's awesome.
We'll be sure for our listeners.
We'll put those in our shownotes, with all the links to all
of those.
We'll be sure to check thoseout.
And before we let you go, we'dlike to ask all of our guests
another question, that is, theirtakeaway of the day.
Is there a take-home message,number one, or is there a nugget
that you want us to leave uswith before we wrap up?
Speaker 4 (41:13):
I would say make your relationship a priority.
Speaker 1 (41:15):
Awesome, well said yeah, David, what about you?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
It's certainly hard to top that.
I would tell folks look forward, don't look back.
So don't keep bringing up whathappened before so that history
somehow repeats itself.
Push that in the rear viewmirror and try to push your
relationship forward.
(41:42):
Look forward, don't look back.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, excellent Great points, liz.
What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
My favorite clarity is kindness.
I thought that was reallybeautiful and I loved how Julie
said it to David.
It's like oh honey, I know Ilove you and I was hoping to do
anything.
I darn well, please, now thatour youngest is in preschool.
Yes, oh, I thought that wasjust so well started, it was
very clear.
What about you, David?
What's the golden nugget foryou during our time together
(42:09):
with the Bullets?
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, you know, we haven't had very many attorneys
on here, so it's interestingthat perspective, david.
Yes, adultery is out there andcheating and finances and all
these other things that willhappen.
But man, that lack of condition, the communication, the regular
intentionality and making surethat you're showing that love,
(42:30):
expressing that making time foreach other in that, yeah, that's
just really hit home for metoday, or your will, naturally.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
You pick this person for a reason.
Most times it wasn't anemergent reason, although that
happens this person for a reason, to be your partner in life,
for a reason.
So don't let one little detourkeep you off the highway.
Push back on or at least try itand I do try to with most folks
(43:00):
, not with everyone.
Sometimes when folks come to meit's clear that there's nothing
.
There's no advice I can givethem or no recommendations to
mental health folks or counselor, pastor, whomever that I can
give them that's going to help.
But most of the time I do askthem to explore that before they
embark on what usually is apainful kind of process.
Even in the best of worlds ispainful.
(43:22):
If it's not painful, youshouldn't have gotten married to
begin with.
There's got to be some pain inthe divorce.
To me there's some pain whereyou shouldn't have ever said I
do.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Wow, Well said.
Wow.
David and Julie the Bullets, ithas been such a pleasure to
have you on the podcast.
Thanks so much for making timefor us today.
Speaker 4 (43:42):
Our pleasure.
Thank you for having us.
This is great.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Thanks so much for joining us, friends, and we'll
see you again next time.
Another episode of the StrongerMarriage Connection podcast.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
And remember it's the small and simple things that
create a stronger marriageconnection.
That create a stronger marriageconnection.
Take good care of yourselvesand each other.
See you soon.
Speaker 5 (44:02):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram,
(44:23):
at Stronger Marriage Live, andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved, which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(44:43):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
(45:04):
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
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