October 20, 2025 • 35 mins
We share Christina Morales’s story of moving from the brink of divorce to two decades of service with Retrouvaille, a couples-led program that turns communication into real change. Hope becomes concrete through a weekend intensive, post-sessions, and a community that protects confidentiality and growth.
• what Retrouvaille is and who it serves
• why lived experience creates safety and trust
• communication tools that help partners finally hear each other
• the weekend format plus post-sessions for lasting change
• how faith roots coexist with open doors to all
• ripple effects on children, friends and community
• when one partner is hesitant and how to start
• success rates, realistic outcomes and co‑parenting skills
• forgiveness as a daily practice, including self‑forgiveness
• practical links and the invitation to “make the call”
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Dr. Dave Schramm:
Dr. Liz Hale:
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:03):
On today's episode of Stronger Marriage Connection,
Dr.
Liz and I welcome ChristinaMorales, who shares her powerful
story of nearly losing hermarriage and how the RetroVie
program helped turn thingsaround.
After attending a life-changingweekend with her husband, when
they were on the brink ofdivorce, not only was their
fragile marriage saved, butChristina and her husband went
(00:24):
on to become instructors in theprogram.
In this conversation, Christinaopens up about the hope RetroVie
offers, why couples shouldn'twait to seek help, and how
marriage education can providetools to heal, grow, and
reconnect.
Christina and her husband haveserved in RetroVie since 2003,
dedicating over 20 years tostrengthening marriages in the
(00:45):
Santa Cruz and Monterey,California areas.
As former community coordinatorsand current mentors, they have
walked alongside countlesscouples through both challenges
and breakthroughs, alwaysreminding them that no marriage
is beyond hope.
In 2026, they will again stepinto the role of community
coordinators leading the SantaCruz Monterey program in Rituvi.
(01:08):
We hope you enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection.
I'm psychologist Dr.
Liz Hale, along with my friendand colleague, the esteemed
professor Dr.
Dave Schram.
Together we have reallydedicated our lives to bringing
you the best we have in validmarital research, along with a
few tips and tools to help youcreate the marriage of your
dreams.
So, Dave, have you ever heard ofthe French word retrovi?
(01:39):
It's French for rediscovery.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, I did.
I have, Liz.
I actually heard about it 20years ago, some, and then I've
yeah, aware of the program, soI'm excited to learn more today.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Yeah, I should say the whole thing, the Retro By
Marriage Program.
I've always wanted to know moreabout it.
So I I heard about it from SmartMarriages.
Where did you hear?
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
That was it.
Yeah, same place way back in theday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
I think it's so interesting.
It's this volunteer runChristian ministry designed for
married couples by marriedcouples who have first
successfully completed theprogram on their very own.
So they've got their own storyto tell.
Our wait for knowing more, Dave,is over as we welcome Christina
Morales to the show today.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, Christina.
(02:20):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me today.
Oh, this is a fun topic.
Um, you so you and your husband,I understand, have been serving
in retrovi.
Yes.
Yes, for control again.
SPEAKER_03 (02:32):
So sorry, people always get it wrong.
It's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
You and your husband have been serving in retrovi
since 2003, dedicating that'slike 20 years to strengthening
marriages in your community ofSanta Cruz, Monterey, in
California.
And what I love most, Christina,is how you say that retrovi has
not only brought you and yourhusband closer together, even
transforming your relationship,but it's also helped you connect
(02:58):
more deeply with others, likefamilies, clients, colleagues.
This program ripples far beyondmarriage, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (03:06):
It does.
It does.
And it is a true ripple effect.
And that's something that was anafter resonating type of um uh
reaction that occurred that Idon't even think the program
describes, I describe it all thetime to couples that we speak
with.
(03:26):
And because it's it's true, ithappened for me, and I see it in
other couples, and I see it withthe team that we present with
also.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
Wow.
What are some of those generalskills that Retrovi does teach
that goes across the aisle toother relationships?
What would be the general aspectof school?
SPEAKER_03 (03:44):
It is a program that helps hurting couples on the
verge of divorce teach themcommunication tools.
Now, communication tools aretaught all over the place.
There's a certain way we do itthat I cannot go into detail
because you have to experienceit for yourself on a weekend.
But what I can say is it does weteach you how to use all of your
(04:10):
senses.
I will say that.
You know, the smell, taste,hear, sight, all of the senses.
We teach you a method how to useall of that and communicate.
And that communication helpsyour spouse hear you when
normally they wouldn't or can'tfor whatever reason, because of
the hurts and the you know, thehypersensitivity between the
(04:31):
couples at that point in time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
Wow, using all your senses, I've never never heard
something like that.
I love the idea.
So, do you have adult childrennow?
Do you have all ages children?
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Yeah, when we started this, our kids were in
their teens.
Uh one, our eldest was in histeens, and the youngest, you
know, under that, but nowthey're 36 and 31 years of age.
And yeah, the our sons have seenour transformation.
They have experienced ourmarriage, you know, when we were
(05:01):
going through all the misery.
And usually most couples getdivorced during that misery
stage, but there's, you know,we've we've come to an awakening
stage that is way better thanthe romance stage we ever had.
So yeah, our sons can see thedifference.
And it's our conversations,we've always had round tables
with our sons whenever anyissues came up with like school
(05:24):
or homework or you know, thingtheir relationship things.
Um, and they are luckily, we'revery lucky that we have an open
communication with our sons thatway that they feel trusting
enough of us to share that typeof information.
And it's very everything we dois very confidential with each
other, even.
And we we we let them know whatonly what we can from our own
(05:47):
experience as a husband and wifeor as a couple to to the boys.
That way they can, and we'veheard them how they express
themselves with their you knowsignificant others and their
situations.
And I've heard my youngest evenshare with friends of his.
So it's it's impactful, andagain, that ripple effect, it's
(06:08):
it's profound.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
That is beautiful.
Thank you for that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
Yeah, uh Christine, as we understand, Retrovi is uh
Christian-based, right?
Even stemming from the the theCatholic Church, but seems to be
way ahead, honestly, of the restof us when it comes to a
religion offering great marriageeducation.
And yet, couples of all faithsand religions are welcome.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_03 (06:33):
That is correct.
Yes, it was Catholic based in1977, came down from Quebec,
Canada, and kind of infiltratedinto the United States.
And it is, we also have what wecall a Christian, a CMD weekend,
which is a Christiannon-denominational weekend.
Anybody who is not Catholic cancome on that weekend.
Normally, the Catholic weekendswe have, we have three
(06:55):
presenting couples and onepriest.
On the CMD weekend, we have thethree presenting couples and
then a pastor and his spouse.
And those are fantastic umweekends.
And gosh, we just we love theteams that we present with all
the time.
They're different every singletime for the most part.
We have a core few that kind ofrotate in the same.
(07:17):
Um, but it it's incredible.
And yeah, we have had people onthere who don't have any
religion at all, and and somethat are very, you know,
cautious and curious about like,well, what is this?
And you know, are you gonna tryand recruit us or convert us?
And it's like, no, it's like atall.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
Right.
I love that.
So it is, it's it's open to toeveryone.
There's no kind of secret,anything uh with this.
And from what we understand,this is very much a uh a
couples-based program.
So uh I get today, you know,you're not with with your
husband here with us on thepodcast.
So it's you know, it's notpossible to share the entirety
of your story without hisperspective.
(08:00):
But do you mind sharing with usa vague description of what led
you as a couple to seek out theRetroVide program?
SPEAKER_03 (08:06):
Sure, perfect.
Great, yes.
And it is weird for me not tohave him here.
We do everything as a couple,even when we speak to other, you
know, couples who come throughtheir program, we always say we
need to speak two-on-two.
It's just it we make the playingfield fair for everybody.
That way everyone hearseverything and it's transparent
for all.
(08:26):
But our story, um, without goingto the program, I can tell you
that we were on the verge ofdivorce.
It was, we have gone through somuch misery throughout our
relationship together andthrough our marriage.
And I will say that infidelitiesoccurred, and it was devastating
(08:47):
on both sides.
And it was my husband is also uma veteran, and PTSD for him with
that occurred, PTSD for meoccurred.
So there was a lot more thanthat's super high level, but
there's so much more that goesinto that that we share with the
(09:09):
couples on the weekend.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
I I love that.
I love that you're able to dothat as a couple for couples to
strengthen them uh together.
Of course, I'm a big fan ofrelationship, marriage,
education uh anyway, Christina.
So I just singing your praises,so grateful that you found that,
that it helped not only you, butnow that you are so we talked
about that ripple effect thatyou're you're spreading that
(09:33):
outward now and help helpingcountless couples.
SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
So kind of you it's a lot of couples over 20 years.
That's that's just amazing.
It's remarkable.
Thousands.
I'm so inspired.
Thousands, wow, and and you uhhave been a military family
then, is that right?
Correct.
And bless you for that.
Thank you.
Oh my goodness.
What do you think, um,Christina?
That that makes retroviseespecially stand out and be
(09:56):
successful, setting them apartfrom all the other programs
internationally.
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
Well, not having experienced other programs
internationally, the fact thatthis one is international was
pretty profound for us.
We like I said, we have our it'sit's a it's a weekend.
I call them events.
We call them the weekend.
It's a Friday, Saturday, Sunday,and then we have postsessions
after that.
(10:21):
Um, and that is essentially thedifference because we tell
everybody, you know, if you sayyou're on the verge of divorce
and or even are halfway thereand have one party signing the
divorce papers and the other,and you're only there because
the judge says, you know, youhave to do this program or you
have to, you know, do it, thenwe ask people to do it 100%.
(10:44):
That means all of your effort,whether you want to or not, put
that effort in so that way youcan say, I've tried everything.
But it is, I think thedifference is the volunteers,
the team, the dedication andcommitment that we have because
we've seen the transformation inour own marriages.
(11:04):
Once you go through it, and ifyou get to the point to where
you're one of the team andyou're presenting, it's
incredible because we can't tellyou, we can show you, we can
tell you our experience, andwe're outside of that force,
right?
All the couples are inside.
They can't see, they don't knowwhat they don't know.
And it's almost like a parenttelling the child, like, hey, we
(11:28):
this is going to be good foryou.
Take your medicine.
I promise you, you can getthrough this on the other side.
Even if it doesn't work out, thebiggest tool that makes this
different is the communicationand how we teach it.
If they separate, they at leasthave that so that if there are
children involved and they'reexchanging kids in a dark, rainy
(11:52):
parking lot during the holidays,they can still communicate
because they're still going tohave to communicate with the
about to each other about thosekids for the rest of their
lives, you know, the kids.
So I think that's thedifference.
Not knowing anybody else'sprograms, that was enough for us
to be able to, and we wereremedial.
(12:13):
We had to do it twice before itstarted to really click in for
us.
SPEAKER_01 (12:18):
So good for the two of you.
I can only imagine just the uhinspiration that these couples
feel when they look around andsee other couples who've gone
through this and live to tellabout it on the other side.
Oh I don't know if it gets it'smuch better than that, quite
honestly.
I I think I'm starting tounderstand the secret behind
RetroVice success.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
We'll be right back after this brief message.
And we're back.
Let's dive right in.
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
Do you think this is good for any couple, Christina?
Or would you say that maybethere's a few prerequisites?
For instance, we assume bothparties have to be willing to
participate together.
SPEAKER_03 (13:06):
I will say yes, but in our situation, I wanted it
more than my husband did at thebeginning.
And he went, anyways, because Isaid, Well, if you love me, then
you're gonna come to this thing.
And, you know, he he kind of,even though there was like
issues and misery already, andyou know, he could have said
absolutely not.
(13:27):
And we've we have had spousesthat say absolutely not.
But I don't know, for one reasonor another, one one couple still
manages to get the other onethere.
And it it it happens a lot whereone, you know, you're not forced
to be there, they're therebegrudgingly and they have an
issue and they're mad about it.
But as the program unfolds,we've seen the transformations
(13:50):
even over the weekend for somecouples that they're just like
by the end of the weekend,they're arm in arm, and it's
just it's wonderful.
That's when one of the things wesay to each other as a team over
the weekend is where on theweekend did you see God?
And for us, it was like, oh,that one couple that had, you
know, this issue or that issue.
Did you see them at the end ofthe weekend?
(14:11):
And they were arm in arm, and itwas like, yeah, we all did.
And it was it's amazing.
We do that all the time.
We see miracles happen.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
You are miracle workers is the word for it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Yeah, man.
I love this.
As you consider your your timein the program, both as a couple
and as mentors, what would yousay has had the the most lasting
impact on your relationship?
SPEAKER_03 (14:34):
On ours.
My husband and my relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
Yeah, just even going through it yourself or the
process of of you know teachingit as a as a couple, is there
anything that stands out?
You know, not like a a littlesneak peek perhaps of some of
the things that you've learned,but what is it that has is there
a I don't know, a principle?
Is is there something in therethat you're like this makes all
the difference for us?
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
Well, there are so many different things.
I would say one of the numberone things for us as a couple
that made a huge difference wasthe friendships that we've
created and have made.
Um, my we were just talking toanother couple of friends over
this last weekend, and myhusband was comparing Retrovi as
(15:21):
a lifestyle, and that it issimilar to the military, because
he has a military background.
How when you're in the militaryand you are in a different
country, and but yet you havesomebody from the same state as
you, they're like, oh, that thatyou're like home to me, right?
If you're in another country,um, much less if you're in a
(15:44):
city related or closer to whereyou actually live.
Then there's just a bond that'sthere, that's undeniable.
So, us as a team, we all have abond because we have it would be
like meeting you two today, thenwe share our story, then all of
a sudden, over the weekend, youguys have heard our story.
Maybe we were inside yourstories and heard a little bit
(16:05):
of your issues of what's goingon.
Then that it's just an instantbond.
So if we see you out in thestreet, it's gonna be like, oh
my gosh, hey, hi.
And everything's superconfidential.
So we don't ever say, Oh yeah,remember me from RetroVie.
It's because it's all in its ownlittle bubble.
But as a team, we know eachother's worst sides.
So we can, I don't know, it'sthere's just something magical
(16:28):
about that that we're not judgyof each other at all.
It just kind of opened up,opening up the kimono to
friendships at a really deeplevel that you feel super safe
sharing and conversing, and thenyou just grow from there.
It's it's really quitebeautiful.
I've never experienced thatanywhere.
And for my husband.
So for us, it's it's a veryblooming, beautiful thing for us
(16:52):
to experience.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
This past weekend, I helped a colleague that Dave and
I both know.
She did her um marriage bootcamp.
And that's the first time I'vebeen with couples in a room, you
know, several couples.
And what struck me the most waswere those connections.
And to say, oh my gosh, you feelyou, what you said resonates
with me.
I have felt the same way.
Just that that knowledge thatwe're not alone.
(17:14):
We're not the only onesstruggling.
Sometimes you feel like you'reall alone in the world, that
you're the only couple thatcan't get it together.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
It's exactly that's exactly how I felt when we went
to our very first retrovite.
I thought no one else is goingthrough the same struggles we're
going through at all.
And then you hear one of thepresenting couples with the same
story.
It's like, oh my gosh, or sosimilar in so many ways that I
felt like, okay, I'm not alone.
And and that is one of thethings that we do tell the
(17:43):
couples is you're not alone.
There are many more, and we'rehere to help you.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
Retrovi really spared your marriage and family,
didn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
It did.
It did.
It spared us, it lifted us up,and we're able to share what we
can with the couples on theweekends.
And then thereafter, we we wemake ourselves available.
So we have phone calls or textsfrom our couples or even couples
that went to a pro uh one of ourprograms, you know, a year or
(18:14):
two or more before, saying, Hey,you know, we hit a bump in the
road, and then we reach out andwe talk with them.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
I love that.
So it's not a one and done.
You do, you stay stay in touchwith each other, you check in
with each other, um, and yeah,and you have that I guess that
similarity, right?
That commonality that you caninstantly relate, especially if
you've been vulnerable andyou've shared you know, the
deepest parts of you um in in asafe space, then there is
(18:43):
there's that uh ability to makethat connection that uh yeah,
rarely happens outside of that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yes.
Yes.
Is there a couple that standsout to you through the years,
Christina, where perhaps itseemed like it was going to take
that miracle to get them to theother side intact, and retrovide
did just that?
SPEAKER_03 (19:01):
Yeah, it happens more often than you think.
There's always at least one ofthose couples on our our
weekends.
And there was a, yeah, there wasone in particular because I went
to school with her and I I guesshim, but I don't I didn't know
him in school.
And oh, by that second morning,the second, because they come on
(19:22):
the Friday evening, thatSaturday morning before noon, we
told her, or she was like angry,angry, angry, angry.
She was ready to leave then andthere.
And I just remember telling her,you know, just wait, we have
more, you know, you have tostill hear our story the rest
of, you know, later on today.
And I told her to wait for themiracle.
(19:44):
I promise, wait for the miracle.
If you want to leave tomorrow,after you know, a certain time,
wait for the miracle.
And she's like, fine.
She only did it as a favor tome.
She was begrudging the wholeentire time.
And sure enough, it happened.
And that, and they're stillmarried today, and they have a
very thriving relationship.
So yeah, it it worked.
(20:07):
It doesn't work for everyone,unfortunately.
Some people just decide not toput in effort, but yeah, her
their story stands out to me.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
Yeah.
Oh, isn't that just something?
And I think those couples, likeyou said, nothing is wasted,
right?
You you learn how to bedivorced, I suppose, and how to
co-parent because you will beco-parenting and connecting for
the rest of your lives.
Yeah.
So, gosh, what a way to set youup.
Would you, would you know thesuccess rate of retro vi?
Do you follow those numbers?
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
I don't, but I know that it's been mentioned before.
And as far as it seems it'sreally high if the couples are
putting in the work, I would saythere's, I'm just gonna throw a
number out there that's probablyclose to, I'm gonna say 87%.
If they're putting in the work,then yeah.
(20:55):
Is it gonna be super 100% rosy?
Maybe not, but it's still goingto be elevated compared to where
they were on that Friday whenthey came to the weekend.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
We'll be right back after this brief message.
And we're back.
Let's dive right in.
Christina, what would you say isuh, you know, if there's
listeners right now and they'rekind of like, man, that this
(21:28):
sounds amazing.
Something sounds like somethingthat we would really benefit
from, but they're maybe on thefence, or maybe there's a wife
listening in, she's like, Idon't know, how do I get my
husband to something like this?
Do you have any tips or advice,I guess, in in that scenario to
kind of help tip them over andsay, what would you say to a
couple who's uh kind of thinkingabout it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
Well, what's wonderful is I would say check
out both of our differentwebsites, the retroca.org and
then helparmarriage.org.
Retro CAA is specific toCalifornia.
Help our marriage is for all ofthe United States.
And they both have really greatkind of questionnaires on there.
You know, are you are youfeeling lonely?
Are you feeling hurt?
(22:07):
Are you feeling all thesethings?
If the answer is yes to any ofthose, then yes, you need to be
here.
You need to come check this out.
Um, you know, what are you gonnawalk away with this if your
spouse doesn't want to?
Guaranteed you, as anindividual, will learn some
communication tools that aregonna help you with either
(22:27):
making this relationship work ornot, you at least know how to
move forward.
And we we kind of teach you towork on yourself also.
So there's that great big piecethere.
And that they're not alone andthat they don't have to worry
about sharing their story, thatit's not anything like that,
it's not a retreat, it's not ayou know, sensitivity group.
(22:49):
This is a program to to work onyourself, really.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
So you can talk or not talk, share or not share.
You can pass.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Ah, love that.
And we'll put those links uh forour listeners who just heard
those or may not know how tospell Retrovite or maybe a
little bit difficult.
We're gonna put those links,Christina, in our show notes.
So listeners, go to those showuh our show notes and we'll put
the links to those to thosewebsites.
Are there other uh you know,resources, uh websites, things
that you recommend forlisteners?
SPEAKER_03 (23:21):
We could add or no, those are the two basic ones for
Retrovise specifically.
I mean, there's programs likethis where you can listen to,
you know, marriage and andrelationships and that type of
thing.
But you know, really for anyonewho's going through the hardest
time and you think that this isjust the worst of it, there is
(23:43):
hope.
Um, our logo is a cross and ithas a life preserver on it.
And for us, that was thelifeline.
That little life preserver, thatlogo image, it this program is
that life preserver.
We're throwing it out to you.
No one's ever turned away ever.
We we welcome the couples intothe program.
(24:04):
So there is hope.
You know, wait for that miracle,wait for that golden nugget of
information that you maybe neverknew of or how to use before.
And I promise if you do what weask you to do, then you will you
will change.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, and you gotta you gotta put in the work,
right?
It takes it takes work.
Uh individuals, I guess we startwith ourselves, right?
We search inward and then weturn out.
SPEAKER_03 (24:32):
One of the things I will share about my husband, one
of his favorite things to say isstaying married in today's
society is getting divorced islike a six-way, six-lane
highway, freeway.
Um, all go, not that muchtraffic.
You're not stuck.
It's just go, go, go, go, go,go.
(24:53):
And if there's any lights, youknow, red light, green lights,
it's all green lights the wholeentire way.
There's no no issues to getdivorced.
Like boom, every it's very, veryeasy.
To stay married and to be in amarriage, he says it's
comparable to the most rockiestmountain goat path, you know,
with ups and downs and you know,hard.
(25:15):
It's rocky, it's dirty, you falldown.
But the point is to keep gettingup and keep moving forward
together.
Whenever he says that, and hesays that often, uh there's one
company that has likemotivational pictures, and I'm
sure you can Google them allover the place.
But it the image in my brainwhen he says that is one person
climbing the mountain and kindof reaching back, trying to grab
(25:38):
the other person to help themup.
That's what marriage is, andthat's what this program
reinforces is you know what, youguys are a team, and you have to
work at this together, not likesomething in between each of
you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:52):
So Yeah, I love that.
Love the the metaphor.
I'll I'll even keep going withthat a little bit, Christina,
because it as you're hiking upthat rocky path, yeah.
I think that the views and theperspective all of a sudden
changes because you can see moreclearly when you're up higher on
that elevation.
It takes work to get up there.
It does.
You've earned you've earned thethe the view, the that
(26:13):
perspective that shifts thattakes place, wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_03 (26:16):
Yeah, definitely.
And it's like with anything,that's kind of like when I say
we're outside of the forest andthe couples are in it.
So we can see better becausewe're higher up, we can see
because we've done the work.
Um, but it's almost like withanything, if you've ever
completed a hike or you evercompleted, you know, um, a
certification, and even thoughit was tough, whatever your
(26:39):
thing is that you've beenwanting to do, and you actually
put in the work and you achieveit, that feeling of excitement,
that feeling of just, you know,burden-free brain or chest of
like stress, it's it'sincredible.
And when you feel that way, it'slike, whoa, can is this a
fleeting moment or can I feellike this all the time?
(27:02):
It it can be both, but you feelit.
That's the point, is that youfeel it and you get and you get
there.
So it's exciting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
Yeah, that is.
It reminds me, um I took our sonand some other boys about his
age and some other leaders.
We took him to the Tetons and wewent on this 23-mile um hike.
And and each step of the way,right, is it's tough, it's
tough.
But man, when you get up there,it's hard to describe.
You have to experience it.
You can't even a picture.
I could show you a picture andit uh it's not the same, but
(27:30):
actually going through that painin the blisters and all that
getting up there, it's it'swork.
SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
But it's that reward has got to be incredible.
It is, yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
But you got it, you you got exactly what I was
talking about.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
You know, looking back, Christina, is there
anything you would tell yourpre-retrovise self or any
younger person who might belistening?
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
If I could tell my pre-retrovise self, I would have
given myself how I found it wasa newsletter at church because I
was feeling so desperate.
Had somebody given me a brochureor some information about this
ahead of time, like in case ofemergency, break open this
(28:15):
brochure and call.
Um, I've actually given it as awedding gift to people because
people who just get married aretoo in the lovey lovey stage
that they're not gonna hear it.
It's like a teenager, right?
You're telling them to do thingsthe right way, and they're like,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of like how it iswith somebody who's just
married.
But it's like, trust me, there'sgonna be a day when it's gonna
(28:39):
feel like ground zero.
And whenever that happens, youcan call this number.
There is something, there'shope.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
And um, but yeah, break open, break open this
break open.
SPEAKER_03 (28:50):
So if I could tell my younger self, it would be
like, hey, there's this placeyou can reach out to when you
hit the ground, um, skidding andtumbling on the ground.
Um, call this number and saveyourself years of misery.
What I have, I don't know, but Iat least would have told myself
that or planted it in a booksomewhere where I could open it
(29:11):
up because my curiosity isalways like, well, what's this?
So I would have done somethingto make it a curious puzzle for
me to go and find out soonerthan later than when I did.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
I love knowing this is a great wedding gift.
Brilliant.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Yeah.
And those words now are echoingfinding out sooner than later,
right, listeners.
If you're hearing this, you justfeel this, whether resources
therapy, reaching out,retrovide, whatever it is, reach
out sooner than later.
Um just notice right that innernudges.
Notice the nudges, follow thefeelings, I like to say.
And uh it's worth it's worth thework, but it does, it takes
(29:48):
intentional uh effort.
Uh so that's wonderful.
Well, Christina, it's come tothat part of our of our program
uh where we like to ask each ofour guests a a particular
question.
And that is what do you believeis the key to a stronger
marriage connection?
SPEAKER_03 (30:05):
Well, of course, communication, but another
coupled with forgiveness.
Coupled with forgiveness.
And that could forgiveness canmean forgiving your spouse, but
more importantly, it can reallyhit home when you forgive
yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (30:25):
Very much so sometimes that's the hardest
person to forgive, I find.
More so than the spouse,exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Yeah.
Love it.
Love it.
Love it.
And uh another question, ourlast question for you is this,
Christina.
What would you say is a atakeaway of the day, is is how
we like to call it.
Is there a take-home message youwant our listeners to remember
from our discussion today?
SPEAKER_03 (30:49):
Make the call.
I would make the call, do theresearch.
If you're afraid to go andcommit, that's okay.
Um, those are decisions.
And the first decision is tomake a decision, and that is to
find out more.
Go to the websites or make thecall just to gather information.
You don't have to make adecision other than getting
information.
(31:10):
That's what I would urge peopleto do who are in the most
hurting position right now orthe most angry position.
Of course, anger, you're hurt,probably.
So just call or reach out andlook at the information provided
available to you.
And I hope it's enough to makeyou want to learn more.
And we are more than happy toanswer any questions at any
(31:32):
point in time.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
That's kind.
SPEAKER_00 (31:34):
Yeah, very, very kind.
Thank you.
Liz, what about you?
What's your takeaway of the daywith Christina?
SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
And I think there's strength in numbers, and just
having experienced that over theweekend, I just uh think it's
where the magic is.
How how large are your groups,Christina?
I imagine they vary.
They do vary.
SPEAKER_03 (31:50):
We've had groups as small as eight couples, we've
had groups as large as 50 fivezero couples.
So it it really just varies.
I would say maybe on averageabout 25 couples or so.
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
Just to know you're not alone and that we we are in
this with other people.
There is something soreassuring, so inspiring about
that.
And Dave, what about you?
What's a golden nugget?
You hope we're all gonna learnand remember today from our time
with Christina Morales regardingRetroVie.
SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
Yeah, you know, uh Liz, our our whole purpose for
this podcast is to give peopletools and information,
education, options, explore, doyour research.
And this is a great option.
RetroVie has been around for along time, research-based.
I've seen studies on uh on thethe effects of this.
It could be very helpful.
And so, yeah, couples listening,I hope that you will take the
time to explore.
(32:40):
Explore, uh, do the worknecessary.
It's it's worth it, it's worththe work to find some helps or
whatever that may look like foryou and your relationship, but
it's worth the effort and thework.
So I'll say oh well, Christina,thank you so much again for uh
for coming on, your time, foryour expertise, for sharing more
(33:02):
about RetroVie and the wonderfulpositive impact it can have on
code.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
You're welcome.
Thank you so much for having meand for having RetroVie be this
outlet for anyone who'slistening.
It feels like it's a best keptsecret because it's only ever by
referral or word of mouth,usually.
We don't do any marketingreally, other than those two
websites that I gave you.
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
Yeah.
Well, we're doing our part.
We're gonna blast it loud andproud uh wherever we can to
share this episode that we haveto see.
So thanks again for coming on.
Thank you.
And that does it for us.
We will see you next time onanother episode of the Stronger
Marriage Connection Podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
And remember, it's a small things that create a
stronger marriage connection.
See you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment, and
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You can also follow and interactwith us on Instagram at
(34:12):
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So be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved, which
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If you want even more resourcesto improve your marriage or
relationship connection, visitstrongermarriage.org, where
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relationship surveys, and more.
(34:33):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks to ourproducer, Rex Polanis, and the
team at Utah State University,and you, our audience.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions, and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views of
(34:56):
the Utah Marriage Commission.
On today's episode of Stronger Marriage Connection,
Dr.
Liz and I welcome ChristinaMorales, who shares her powerful
story of nearly losing hermarriage and how the RetroVie
program helped turn thingsaround.
After attending a life-changingweekend with her husband, when
they were on the brink ofdivorce, not only was their
fragile marriage saved, butChristina and her husband went
(00:24):
on to become instructors in theprogram.
In this conversation, Christinaopens up about the hope RetroVie
offers, why couples shouldn'twait to seek help, and how
marriage education can providetools to heal, grow, and
reconnect.
Christina and her husband haveserved in RetroVie since 2003,
dedicating over 20 years tostrengthening marriages in the
(00:45):
Santa Cruz and Monterey,California areas.
As former community coordinatorsand current mentors, they have
walked alongside countlesscouples through both challenges
and breakthroughs, alwaysreminding them that no marriage
is beyond hope.
In 2026, they will again stepinto the role of community
coordinators leading the SantaCruz Monterey program in Rituvi.
(01:08):
We hope you enjoy the show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:15):
Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection.
I'm psychologist Dr.
Liz Hale, along with my friendand colleague, the esteemed
professor Dr.
Dave Schram.
Together we have reallydedicated our lives to bringing
you the best we have in validmarital research, along with a
few tips and tools to help youcreate the marriage of your
dreams.
So, Dave, have you ever heard ofthe French word retrovi?
(01:39):
It's French for rediscovery.
SPEAKER_00 (01:41):
Yeah.
Yeah, I did.
I have, Liz.
I actually heard about it 20years ago, some, and then I've
yeah, aware of the program, soI'm excited to learn more today.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
Yeah, I should say the whole thing, the Retro By
Marriage Program.
I've always wanted to know moreabout it.
So I I heard about it from SmartMarriages.
Where did you hear?
SPEAKER_00 (01:57):
That was it.
Yeah, same place way back in theday.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
I think it's so interesting.
It's this volunteer runChristian ministry designed for
married couples by marriedcouples who have first
successfully completed theprogram on their very own.
So they've got their own storyto tell.
Our wait for knowing more, Dave,is over as we welcome Christina
Morales to the show today.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, Christina.
(02:20):
Thank you.
Thanks for having me today.
Oh, this is a fun topic.
Um, you so you and your husband,I understand, have been serving
in retrovi.
Yes.
Yes, for control again.
SPEAKER_03 (02:32):
So sorry, people always get it wrong.
It's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
You and your husband have been serving in retrovi
since 2003, dedicating that'slike 20 years to strengthening
marriages in your community ofSanta Cruz, Monterey, in
California.
And what I love most, Christina,is how you say that retrovi has
not only brought you and yourhusband closer together, even
transforming your relationship,but it's also helped you connect
(02:58):
more deeply with others, likefamilies, clients, colleagues.
This program ripples far beyondmarriage, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (03:06):
It does.
It does.
And it is a true ripple effect.
And that's something that was anafter resonating type of um uh
reaction that occurred that Idon't even think the program
describes, I describe it all thetime to couples that we speak
with.
(03:26):
And because it's it's true, ithappened for me, and I see it in
other couples, and I see it withthe team that we present with
also.
SPEAKER_01 (03:33):
Wow.
What are some of those generalskills that Retrovi does teach
that goes across the aisle toother relationships?
What would be the general aspectof school?
SPEAKER_03 (03:44):
It is a program that helps hurting couples on the
verge of divorce teach themcommunication tools.
Now, communication tools aretaught all over the place.
There's a certain way we do itthat I cannot go into detail
because you have to experienceit for yourself on a weekend.
But what I can say is it does weteach you how to use all of your
(04:10):
senses.
I will say that.
You know, the smell, taste,hear, sight, all of the senses.
We teach you a method how to useall of that and communicate.
And that communication helpsyour spouse hear you when
normally they wouldn't or can'tfor whatever reason, because of
the hurts and the you know, thehypersensitivity between the
(04:31):
couples at that point in time.
SPEAKER_01 (04:33):
Wow, using all your senses, I've never never heard
something like that.
I love the idea.
So, do you have adult childrennow?
Do you have all ages children?
I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Yeah, when we started this, our kids were in
their teens.
Uh one, our eldest was in histeens, and the youngest, you
know, under that, but nowthey're 36 and 31 years of age.
And yeah, the our sons have seenour transformation.
They have experienced ourmarriage, you know, when we were
(05:01):
going through all the misery.
And usually most couples getdivorced during that misery
stage, but there's, you know,we've we've come to an awakening
stage that is way better thanthe romance stage we ever had.
So yeah, our sons can see thedifference.
And it's our conversations,we've always had round tables
with our sons whenever anyissues came up with like school
(05:24):
or homework or you know, thingtheir relationship things.
Um, and they are luckily, we'revery lucky that we have an open
communication with our sons thatway that they feel trusting
enough of us to share that typeof information.
And it's very everything we dois very confidential with each
other, even.
And we we we let them know whatonly what we can from our own
(05:47):
experience as a husband and wifeor as a couple to to the boys.
That way they can, and we'veheard them how they express
themselves with their you knowsignificant others and their
situations.
And I've heard my youngest evenshare with friends of his.
So it's it's impactful, andagain, that ripple effect, it's
(06:08):
it's profound.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
That is beautiful.
Thank you for that.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
Yeah, uh Christine, as we understand, Retrovi is uh
Christian-based, right?
Even stemming from the the theCatholic Church, but seems to be
way ahead, honestly, of the restof us when it comes to a
religion offering great marriageeducation.
And yet, couples of all faithsand religions are welcome.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_03 (06:33):
That is correct.
Yes, it was Catholic based in1977, came down from Quebec,
Canada, and kind of infiltratedinto the United States.
And it is, we also have what wecall a Christian, a CMD weekend,
which is a Christiannon-denominational weekend.
Anybody who is not Catholic cancome on that weekend.
Normally, the Catholic weekendswe have, we have three
(06:55):
presenting couples and onepriest.
On the CMD weekend, we have thethree presenting couples and
then a pastor and his spouse.
And those are fantastic umweekends.
And gosh, we just we love theteams that we present with all
the time.
They're different every singletime for the most part.
We have a core few that kind ofrotate in the same.
(07:17):
Um, but it it's incredible.
And yeah, we have had people onthere who don't have any
religion at all, and and somethat are very, you know,
cautious and curious about like,well, what is this?
And you know, are you gonna tryand recruit us or convert us?
And it's like, no, it's like atall.
SPEAKER_00 (07:39):
Right.
I love that.
So it is, it's it's open to toeveryone.
There's no kind of secret,anything uh with this.
And from what we understand,this is very much a uh a
couples-based program.
So uh I get today, you know,you're not with with your
husband here with us on thepodcast.
So it's you know, it's notpossible to share the entirety
of your story without hisperspective.
(08:00):
But do you mind sharing with usa vague description of what led
you as a couple to seek out theRetroVide program?
SPEAKER_03 (08:06):
Sure, perfect.
Great, yes.
And it is weird for me not tohave him here.
We do everything as a couple,even when we speak to other, you
know, couples who come throughtheir program, we always say we
need to speak two-on-two.
It's just it we make the playingfield fair for everybody.
That way everyone hearseverything and it's transparent
for all.
(08:26):
But our story, um, without goingto the program, I can tell you
that we were on the verge ofdivorce.
It was, we have gone through somuch misery throughout our
relationship together andthrough our marriage.
And I will say that infidelitiesoccurred, and it was devastating
(08:47):
on both sides.
And it was my husband is also uma veteran, and PTSD for him with
that occurred, PTSD for meoccurred.
So there was a lot more thanthat's super high level, but
there's so much more that goesinto that that we share with the
(09:09):
couples on the weekend.
And yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
I I love that.
I love that you're able to dothat as a couple for couples to
strengthen them uh together.
Of course, I'm a big fan ofrelationship, marriage,
education uh anyway, Christina.
So I just singing your praises,so grateful that you found that,
that it helped not only you, butnow that you are so we talked
about that ripple effect thatyou're you're spreading that
(09:33):
outward now and help helpingcountless couples.
SPEAKER_01 (09:35):
So kind of you it's a lot of couples over 20 years.
That's that's just amazing.
It's remarkable.
Thousands.
I'm so inspired.
Thousands, wow, and and you uhhave been a military family
then, is that right?
Correct.
And bless you for that.
Thank you.
Oh my goodness.
What do you think, um,Christina?
That that makes retroviseespecially stand out and be
(09:56):
successful, setting them apartfrom all the other programs
internationally.
SPEAKER_03 (10:01):
Well, not having experienced other programs
internationally, the fact thatthis one is international was
pretty profound for us.
We like I said, we have our it'sit's a it's a weekend.
I call them events.
We call them the weekend.
It's a Friday, Saturday, Sunday,and then we have postsessions
after that.
(10:21):
Um, and that is essentially thedifference because we tell
everybody, you know, if you sayyou're on the verge of divorce
and or even are halfway thereand have one party signing the
divorce papers and the other,and you're only there because
the judge says, you know, youhave to do this program or you
have to, you know, do it, thenwe ask people to do it 100%.
(10:44):
That means all of your effort,whether you want to or not, put
that effort in so that way youcan say, I've tried everything.
But it is, I think thedifference is the volunteers,
the team, the dedication andcommitment that we have because
we've seen the transformation inour own marriages.
(11:04):
Once you go through it, and ifyou get to the point to where
you're one of the team andyou're presenting, it's
incredible because we can't tellyou, we can show you, we can
tell you our experience, andwe're outside of that force,
right?
All the couples are inside.
They can't see, they don't knowwhat they don't know.
And it's almost like a parenttelling the child, like, hey, we
(11:28):
this is going to be good foryou.
Take your medicine.
I promise you, you can getthrough this on the other side.
Even if it doesn't work out, thebiggest tool that makes this
different is the communicationand how we teach it.
If they separate, they at leasthave that so that if there are
children involved and they'reexchanging kids in a dark, rainy
(11:52):
parking lot during the holidays,they can still communicate
because they're still going tohave to communicate with the
about to each other about thosekids for the rest of their
lives, you know, the kids.
So I think that's thedifference.
Not knowing anybody else'sprograms, that was enough for us
to be able to, and we wereremedial.
(12:13):
We had to do it twice before itstarted to really click in for
us.
SPEAKER_01 (12:18):
So good for the two of you.
I can only imagine just the uhinspiration that these couples
feel when they look around andsee other couples who've gone
through this and live to tellabout it on the other side.
Oh I don't know if it gets it'smuch better than that, quite
honestly.
I I think I'm starting tounderstand the secret behind
RetroVice success.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
We'll be right back after this brief message.
And we're back.
Let's dive right in.
SPEAKER_01 (12:55):
Do you think this is good for any couple, Christina?
Or would you say that maybethere's a few prerequisites?
For instance, we assume bothparties have to be willing to
participate together.
SPEAKER_03 (13:06):
I will say yes, but in our situation, I wanted it
more than my husband did at thebeginning.
And he went, anyways, because Isaid, Well, if you love me, then
you're gonna come to this thing.
And, you know, he he kind of,even though there was like
issues and misery already, andyou know, he could have said
absolutely not.
(13:27):
And we've we have had spousesthat say absolutely not.
But I don't know, for one reasonor another, one one couple still
manages to get the other onethere.
And it it it happens a lot whereone, you know, you're not forced
to be there, they're therebegrudgingly and they have an
issue and they're mad about it.
But as the program unfolds,we've seen the transformations
(13:50):
even over the weekend for somecouples that they're just like
by the end of the weekend,they're arm in arm, and it's
just it's wonderful.
That's when one of the things wesay to each other as a team over
the weekend is where on theweekend did you see God?
And for us, it was like, oh,that one couple that had, you
know, this issue or that issue.
Did you see them at the end ofthe weekend?
(14:11):
And they were arm in arm, and itwas like, yeah, we all did.
And it was it's amazing.
We do that all the time.
We see miracles happen.
SPEAKER_01 (14:18):
You are miracle workers is the word for it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Yeah, man.
I love this.
As you consider your your timein the program, both as a couple
and as mentors, what would yousay has had the the most lasting
impact on your relationship?
SPEAKER_03 (14:34):
On ours.
My husband and my relationship.
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
Yeah, just even going through it yourself or the
process of of you know teachingit as a as a couple, is there
anything that stands out?
You know, not like a a littlesneak peek perhaps of some of
the things that you've learned,but what is it that has is there
a I don't know, a principle?
Is is there something in therethat you're like this makes all
the difference for us?
SPEAKER_03 (14:57):
Well, there are so many different things.
I would say one of the numberone things for us as a couple
that made a huge difference wasthe friendships that we've
created and have made.
Um, my we were just talking toanother couple of friends over
this last weekend, and myhusband was comparing Retrovi as
(15:21):
a lifestyle, and that it issimilar to the military, because
he has a military background.
How when you're in the militaryand you are in a different
country, and but yet you havesomebody from the same state as
you, they're like, oh, that thatyou're like home to me, right?
If you're in another country,um, much less if you're in a
(15:44):
city related or closer to whereyou actually live.
Then there's just a bond that'sthere, that's undeniable.
So, us as a team, we all have abond because we have it would be
like meeting you two today, thenwe share our story, then all of
a sudden, over the weekend, youguys have heard our story.
Maybe we were inside yourstories and heard a little bit
(16:05):
of your issues of what's goingon.
Then that it's just an instantbond.
So if we see you out in thestreet, it's gonna be like, oh
my gosh, hey, hi.
And everything's superconfidential.
So we don't ever say, Oh yeah,remember me from RetroVie.
It's because it's all in its ownlittle bubble.
But as a team, we know eachother's worst sides.
So we can, I don't know, it'sthere's just something magical
(16:28):
about that that we're not judgyof each other at all.
It just kind of opened up,opening up the kimono to
friendships at a really deeplevel that you feel super safe
sharing and conversing, and thenyou just grow from there.
It's it's really quitebeautiful.
I've never experienced thatanywhere.
And for my husband.
So for us, it's it's a veryblooming, beautiful thing for us
(16:52):
to experience.
SPEAKER_01 (16:54):
This past weekend, I helped a colleague that Dave and
I both know.
She did her um marriage bootcamp.
And that's the first time I'vebeen with couples in a room, you
know, several couples.
And what struck me the most waswere those connections.
And to say, oh my gosh, you feelyou, what you said resonates
with me.
I have felt the same way.
Just that that knowledge thatwe're not alone.
(17:14):
We're not the only onesstruggling.
Sometimes you feel like you'reall alone in the world, that
you're the only couple thatcan't get it together.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
It's exactly that's exactly how I felt when we went
to our very first retrovite.
I thought no one else is goingthrough the same struggles we're
going through at all.
And then you hear one of thepresenting couples with the same
story.
It's like, oh my gosh, or sosimilar in so many ways that I
felt like, okay, I'm not alone.
And and that is one of thethings that we do tell the
(17:43):
couples is you're not alone.
There are many more, and we'rehere to help you.
SPEAKER_01 (17:49):
Retrovi really spared your marriage and family,
didn't it?
SPEAKER_03 (17:53):
It did.
It did.
It spared us, it lifted us up,and we're able to share what we
can with the couples on theweekends.
And then thereafter, we we wemake ourselves available.
So we have phone calls or textsfrom our couples or even couples
that went to a pro uh one of ourprograms, you know, a year or
(18:14):
two or more before, saying, Hey,you know, we hit a bump in the
road, and then we reach out andwe talk with them.
SPEAKER_00 (18:22):
I love that.
So it's not a one and done.
You do, you stay stay in touchwith each other, you check in
with each other, um, and yeah,and you have that I guess that
similarity, right?
That commonality that you caninstantly relate, especially if
you've been vulnerable andyou've shared you know, the
deepest parts of you um in in asafe space, then there is
(18:43):
there's that uh ability to makethat connection that uh yeah,
rarely happens outside of that.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Yes.
Yes.
Is there a couple that standsout to you through the years,
Christina, where perhaps itseemed like it was going to take
that miracle to get them to theother side intact, and retrovide
did just that?
SPEAKER_03 (19:01):
Yeah, it happens more often than you think.
There's always at least one ofthose couples on our our
weekends.
And there was a, yeah, there wasone in particular because I went
to school with her and I I guesshim, but I don't I didn't know
him in school.
And oh, by that second morning,the second, because they come on
(19:22):
the Friday evening, thatSaturday morning before noon, we
told her, or she was like angry,angry, angry, angry.
She was ready to leave then andthere.
And I just remember telling her,you know, just wait, we have
more, you know, you have tostill hear our story the rest
of, you know, later on today.
And I told her to wait for themiracle.
(19:44):
I promise, wait for the miracle.
If you want to leave tomorrow,after you know, a certain time,
wait for the miracle.
And she's like, fine.
She only did it as a favor tome.
She was begrudging the wholeentire time.
And sure enough, it happened.
And that, and they're stillmarried today, and they have a
very thriving relationship.
So yeah, it it worked.
(20:07):
It doesn't work for everyone,unfortunately.
Some people just decide not toput in effort, but yeah, her
their story stands out to me.
SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
Yeah.
Oh, isn't that just something?
And I think those couples, likeyou said, nothing is wasted,
right?
You you learn how to bedivorced, I suppose, and how to
co-parent because you will beco-parenting and connecting for
the rest of your lives.
Yeah.
So, gosh, what a way to set youup.
Would you, would you know thesuccess rate of retro vi?
Do you follow those numbers?
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
I don't, but I know that it's been mentioned before.
And as far as it seems it'sreally high if the couples are
putting in the work, I would saythere's, I'm just gonna throw a
number out there that's probablyclose to, I'm gonna say 87%.
If they're putting in the work,then yeah.
(20:55):
Is it gonna be super 100% rosy?
Maybe not, but it's still goingto be elevated compared to where
they were on that Friday whenthey came to the weekend.
SPEAKER_00 (21:08):
We'll be right back after this brief message.
And we're back.
Let's dive right in.
Christina, what would you say isuh, you know, if there's
listeners right now and they'rekind of like, man, that this
(21:28):
sounds amazing.
Something sounds like somethingthat we would really benefit
from, but they're maybe on thefence, or maybe there's a wife
listening in, she's like, Idon't know, how do I get my
husband to something like this?
Do you have any tips or advice,I guess, in in that scenario to
kind of help tip them over andsay, what would you say to a
couple who's uh kind of thinkingabout it?
SPEAKER_03 (21:47):
Well, what's wonderful is I would say check
out both of our differentwebsites, the retroca.org and
then helparmarriage.org.
Retro CAA is specific toCalifornia.
Help our marriage is for all ofthe United States.
And they both have really greatkind of questionnaires on there.
You know, are you are youfeeling lonely?
Are you feeling hurt?
(22:07):
Are you feeling all thesethings?
If the answer is yes to any ofthose, then yes, you need to be
here.
You need to come check this out.
Um, you know, what are you gonnawalk away with this if your
spouse doesn't want to?
Guaranteed you, as anindividual, will learn some
communication tools that aregonna help you with either
(22:27):
making this relationship work ornot, you at least know how to
move forward.
And we we kind of teach you towork on yourself also.
So there's that great big piecethere.
And that they're not alone andthat they don't have to worry
about sharing their story, thatit's not anything like that,
it's not a retreat, it's not ayou know, sensitivity group.
(22:49):
This is a program to to work onyourself, really.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
So you can talk or not talk, share or not share.
You can pass.
Is that what you're saying?
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (23:01):
Ah, love that.
And we'll put those links uh forour listeners who just heard
those or may not know how tospell Retrovite or maybe a
little bit difficult.
We're gonna put those links,Christina, in our show notes.
So listeners, go to those showuh our show notes and we'll put
the links to those to thosewebsites.
Are there other uh you know,resources, uh websites, things
that you recommend forlisteners?
SPEAKER_03 (23:21):
We could add or no, those are the two basic ones for
Retrovise specifically.
I mean, there's programs likethis where you can listen to,
you know, marriage and andrelationships and that type of
thing.
But you know, really for anyonewho's going through the hardest
time and you think that this isjust the worst of it, there is
(23:43):
hope.
Um, our logo is a cross and ithas a life preserver on it.
And for us, that was thelifeline.
That little life preserver, thatlogo image, it this program is
that life preserver.
We're throwing it out to you.
No one's ever turned away ever.
We we welcome the couples intothe program.
(24:04):
So there is hope.
You know, wait for that miracle,wait for that golden nugget of
information that you maybe neverknew of or how to use before.
And I promise if you do what weask you to do, then you will you
will change.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, and you gotta you gotta put in the work,
right?
It takes it takes work.
Uh individuals, I guess we startwith ourselves, right?
We search inward and then weturn out.
SPEAKER_03 (24:32):
One of the things I will share about my husband, one
of his favorite things to say isstaying married in today's
society is getting divorced islike a six-way, six-lane
highway, freeway.
Um, all go, not that muchtraffic.
You're not stuck.
It's just go, go, go, go, go,go.
(24:53):
And if there's any lights, youknow, red light, green lights,
it's all green lights the wholeentire way.
There's no no issues to getdivorced.
Like boom, every it's very, veryeasy.
To stay married and to be in amarriage, he says it's
comparable to the most rockiestmountain goat path, you know,
with ups and downs and you know,hard.
(25:15):
It's rocky, it's dirty, you falldown.
But the point is to keep gettingup and keep moving forward
together.
Whenever he says that, and hesays that often, uh there's one
company that has likemotivational pictures, and I'm
sure you can Google them allover the place.
But it the image in my brainwhen he says that is one person
climbing the mountain and kindof reaching back, trying to grab
(25:38):
the other person to help themup.
That's what marriage is, andthat's what this program
reinforces is you know what, youguys are a team, and you have to
work at this together, not likesomething in between each of
you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:52):
So Yeah, I love that.
Love the the metaphor.
I'll I'll even keep going withthat a little bit, Christina,
because it as you're hiking upthat rocky path, yeah.
I think that the views and theperspective all of a sudden
changes because you can see moreclearly when you're up higher on
that elevation.
It takes work to get up there.
It does.
You've earned you've earned thethe the view, the that
(26:13):
perspective that shifts thattakes place, wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_03 (26:16):
Yeah, definitely.
And it's like with anything,that's kind of like when I say
we're outside of the forest andthe couples are in it.
So we can see better becausewe're higher up, we can see
because we've done the work.
Um, but it's almost like withanything, if you've ever
completed a hike or you evercompleted, you know, um, a
certification, and even thoughit was tough, whatever your
(26:39):
thing is that you've beenwanting to do, and you actually
put in the work and you achieveit, that feeling of excitement,
that feeling of just, you know,burden-free brain or chest of
like stress, it's it'sincredible.
And when you feel that way, it'slike, whoa, can is this a
fleeting moment or can I feellike this all the time?
(27:02):
It it can be both, but you feelit.
That's the point, is that youfeel it and you get and you get
there.
So it's exciting.
SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
Yeah, that is.
It reminds me, um I took our sonand some other boys about his
age and some other leaders.
We took him to the Tetons and wewent on this 23-mile um hike.
And and each step of the way,right, is it's tough, it's
tough.
But man, when you get up there,it's hard to describe.
You have to experience it.
You can't even a picture.
I could show you a picture andit uh it's not the same, but
(27:30):
actually going through that painin the blisters and all that
getting up there, it's it'swork.
SPEAKER_01 (27:36):
But it's that reward has got to be incredible.
It is, yeah.
Exactly.
SPEAKER_03 (27:42):
But you got it, you you got exactly what I was
talking about.
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
You know, looking back, Christina, is there
anything you would tell yourpre-retrovise self or any
younger person who might belistening?
Oh gosh.
SPEAKER_03 (27:55):
If I could tell my pre-retrovise self, I would have
given myself how I found it wasa newsletter at church because I
was feeling so desperate.
Had somebody given me a brochureor some information about this
ahead of time, like in case ofemergency, break open this
(28:15):
brochure and call.
Um, I've actually given it as awedding gift to people because
people who just get married aretoo in the lovey lovey stage
that they're not gonna hear it.
It's like a teenager, right?
You're telling them to do thingsthe right way, and they're like,
yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's kind of like how it iswith somebody who's just
married.
But it's like, trust me, there'sgonna be a day when it's gonna
(28:39):
feel like ground zero.
And whenever that happens, youcan call this number.
There is something, there'shope.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
And um, but yeah, break open, break open this
break open.
SPEAKER_03 (28:50):
So if I could tell my younger self, it would be
like, hey, there's this placeyou can reach out to when you
hit the ground, um, skidding andtumbling on the ground.
Um, call this number and saveyourself years of misery.
What I have, I don't know, but Iat least would have told myself
that or planted it in a booksomewhere where I could open it
(29:11):
up because my curiosity isalways like, well, what's this?
So I would have done somethingto make it a curious puzzle for
me to go and find out soonerthan later than when I did.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
I love knowing this is a great wedding gift.
Brilliant.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
Yeah.
And those words now are echoingfinding out sooner than later,
right, listeners.
If you're hearing this, you justfeel this, whether resources
therapy, reaching out,retrovide, whatever it is, reach
out sooner than later.
Um just notice right that innernudges.
Notice the nudges, follow thefeelings, I like to say.
And uh it's worth it's worth thework, but it does, it takes
(29:48):
intentional uh effort.
Uh so that's wonderful.
Well, Christina, it's come tothat part of our of our program
uh where we like to ask each ofour guests a a particular
question.
And that is what do you believeis the key to a stronger
marriage connection?
SPEAKER_03 (30:05):
Well, of course, communication, but another
coupled with forgiveness.
Coupled with forgiveness.
And that could forgiveness canmean forgiving your spouse, but
more importantly, it can reallyhit home when you forgive
yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (30:25):
Very much so sometimes that's the hardest
person to forgive, I find.
More so than the spouse,exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
Yeah.
Love it.
Love it.
Love it.
And uh another question, ourlast question for you is this,
Christina.
What would you say is a atakeaway of the day, is is how
we like to call it.
Is there a take-home message youwant our listeners to remember
from our discussion today?
SPEAKER_03 (30:49):
Make the call.
I would make the call, do theresearch.
If you're afraid to go andcommit, that's okay.
Um, those are decisions.
And the first decision is tomake a decision, and that is to
find out more.
Go to the websites or make thecall just to gather information.
You don't have to make adecision other than getting
information.
(31:10):
That's what I would urge peopleto do who are in the most
hurting position right now orthe most angry position.
Of course, anger, you're hurt,probably.
So just call or reach out andlook at the information provided
available to you.
And I hope it's enough to makeyou want to learn more.
And we are more than happy toanswer any questions at any
(31:32):
point in time.
SPEAKER_01 (31:33):
That's kind.
SPEAKER_00 (31:34):
Yeah, very, very kind.
Thank you.
Liz, what about you?
What's your takeaway of the daywith Christina?
SPEAKER_01 (31:39):
And I think there's strength in numbers, and just
having experienced that over theweekend, I just uh think it's
where the magic is.
How how large are your groups,Christina?
I imagine they vary.
They do vary.
SPEAKER_03 (31:50):
We've had groups as small as eight couples, we've
had groups as large as 50 fivezero couples.
So it it really just varies.
I would say maybe on averageabout 25 couples or so.
SPEAKER_01 (32:02):
Just to know you're not alone and that we we are in
this with other people.
There is something soreassuring, so inspiring about
that.
And Dave, what about you?
What's a golden nugget?
You hope we're all gonna learnand remember today from our time
with Christina Morales regardingRetroVie.
SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
Yeah, you know, uh Liz, our our whole purpose for
this podcast is to give peopletools and information,
education, options, explore, doyour research.
And this is a great option.
RetroVie has been around for along time, research-based.
I've seen studies on uh on thethe effects of this.
It could be very helpful.
And so, yeah, couples listening,I hope that you will take the
time to explore.
(32:40):
Explore, uh, do the worknecessary.
It's it's worth it, it's worththe work to find some helps or
whatever that may look like foryou and your relationship, but
it's worth the effort and thework.
So I'll say oh well, Christina,thank you so much again for uh
for coming on, your time, foryour expertise, for sharing more
(33:02):
about RetroVie and the wonderfulpositive impact it can have on
code.
SPEAKER_03 (33:08):
You're welcome.
Thank you so much for having meand for having RetroVie be this
outlet for anyone who'slistening.
It feels like it's a best keptsecret because it's only ever by
referral or word of mouth,usually.
We don't do any marketingreally, other than those two
websites that I gave you.
That's it.
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
Yeah.
Well, we're doing our part.
We're gonna blast it loud andproud uh wherever we can to
share this episode that we haveto see.
So thanks again for coming on.
Thank you.
And that does it for us.
We will see you next time onanother episode of the Stronger
Marriage Connection Podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (33:43):
And remember, it's a small things that create a
stronger marriage connection.
See you next time.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment, and
share this episode with afriend.
You can also follow and interactwith us on Instagram at
(34:12):
StrongerMarriageWife andFacebook at Stronger Marriage.
So be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved, which
guests we should have on theshow next.
If you want even more resourcesto improve your marriage or
relationship connection, visitstrongermarriage.org, where
you'll find free workshops,e-courses, in-depth webinars,
relationship surveys, and more.
(34:33):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks to ourproducer, Rex Polanis, and the
team at Utah State University,and you, our audience.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions, and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views of
(34:56):
the Utah Marriage Commission.
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