Dr. Liz and Dr. Dave welcome Joni Parthimer, education director for the Gottman Institute's Bringing Baby Home program, to discuss how couples can maintain a strong relationship while navigating the challenges of new parenthood.
About Joni:
Joni Parthemer, M.Ed., is a Master Trainer and Education Director for the Bringing Baby Home Program. She is a certified Childbirth Educator and faculty member at Bastyr University’s Simkin Center, specializing in birth and family education at Swedish Medical Center in Seattle.
An award-winning speaker and consultant, Joni brings decades of experience, authenticity, and wit to her work with families and educators. She has developed and published training materials to support family and community growth. Married with two children, she is passionate about helping families thrive.
Key Points:
• Research shows 67% of couples experience a significant drop in relationship satisfaction after becoming parents
• Three key ingredients for relationship success: maintaining friendship, respectful conflict regulation, and creating shared family meaning
• The NURSE framework helps new parents prioritize self-care: Nutrition, Understanding support needs, Rest/Resources, Soul-feeding activities, and Exercise
• CPR parenting (Consistent, Predictable, Responsive) builds emotional security for infants
• Babies communicate through non-verbal cues and states of consciousness from birth
• Understanding infant development helps parents respond appropriately to their needs
• Grandparents play an evolving role and should ask what support looks like for each family
• Creating a postpartum plan before baby arrives helps the transition for everyone involved
• The greatest gift parents can give children is a healthy relationship between themselves
• The "family fish tank" metaphor reminds us children are only as healthy as their family ecosystem
Insights:
Joni: “A child's well-being is deeply influenced by the health of their family environment. The best gift parents can give their children is a strong, healthy relationship—whether married, divorced, or co-parenting. Parents serve as role models for future relationships, shaping how their children connect with others. By maintaining friendship, managing conflict with respect, and creating shared meaning through family rituals, couples can build a supportive and nurturing "family fish tank" that fosters lasting emotional security.”
Liz: “The CPR approach—Consistency, Predictability, and Responsiveness—is not just valuable for parenting but also strengthens all relationships, including marriage and friendship. By being reliable, steady, and attentive, we create trust and connection in our most important relationships.”
Dave: “Education is key to growth. With so many resources available today, we have endless opportunities to learn and improve as partners, parents, and individuals.”
Links:
jptrainsandspeaks.com
Email: joni.parthemer@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dave Schramm (00:03):
On today's episode , dr Liz and I have a wonderful
discussion with Joni Parthimerabout all things related to the
stress and struggles of newparents and specifically how it
affects the couple relationship.
Using NERS as an acronym, jonishares some helpful tips on what
mothers should focus on afterbringing the baby home.
(00:24):
Some helpful tips on whatmothers should focus on after
bringing the baby home.
She also shares some helpfuleducational resources, not only
for new parents but forgrandparents as well.
Joni Parthomer is aninternationally certified
childbirth educator and approvedtrainer.
She is lead instructor for theSimpkins Center Childbirth
Educator Training at BastyrUniversity.
Joni serves as the educationdirector and master trainer for
(00:47):
the Bringing Baby Home programat the Gottman Institute and is
an educational consultant to anumber of organizations
worldwide.
She has worked as a birth andfamily education specialist at
Swedish Medical Center and hasdeveloped, published and
implemented a variety oftraining materials for educators
interested in providing supportand growth programs for
(01:09):
families.
She is married with two grownchildren and two grandchildren.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Liz Hale (01:22):
Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection.
I'm psychologist, dr Liz Hale,along with my friend, the
beloved professor Dr DaveSchramm.
Together we have dedicated ourlife's work to bringing you the
best we have in valid maritalresearch, along with a few tips
and tools to help you create themarriage of your dreams.
Well, today, listenersespecially parents you are in
(01:45):
for a real treat.
Our guest educator, joniParthimer, has spent several
decades working with thousandsof parents and professionals
worldwide through Dr JohnGottman's Bringing Baby Home
program.
We love that program here onStronger Marriage Connection.
You've done that, and then some, joni.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, my friend.
(02:05):
Thank you.
Joni Parthemer (02:06):
I'm glad to be here with you both and with your
listeners.
Liz Hale (02:10):
We are honored as well .
Joni, please remind us of thestory behind bringing baby home
that workshop, and where did itall begin?
Joni Parthemer (02:19):
Oh, yes.
So Dr Gottman, as you well mayknow, and his team have been
researching relationships forwell over 50 years and looking
at what helps and fostershealthy, satisfying
relationships and what damagesand hurts them.
And he noticed a pivotal pointin many folks lives, especially
(02:43):
for those who became parents,and what the research was
showing that approximatelytwo-thirds 67%-ish in change of
folks who became parents have asignificant drop in relationship
satisfaction in the first oneto three years after they became
parents.
(03:04):
And there was a lot to belearned from that because we
could look at their interactions, their family interactions, and
look at what wasn't going well.
And we learned about the todon'ts to do in relationships
and that can be helpful.
But then we thought you knowwhat?
(03:24):
Let's also look at the to do'sand three key themes came out of
(03:53):
all of that.
We looked at what Dr Gottmancalls masters of relationships,
those that maintained orstrengthened their relationships
, and three key attributes cameout, or I like to think of them
when I teach workshops I talkabout.
They're the three ingredients,if you will, to the secret sauce
(04:15):
of healthy, sustainingrelationships.
And the first was that thesemasters can focus on maintaining
and strengthening theirfriendship partners to partner.
They stay attuned to theirpartner's life, what was going
on in their world.
They expressed appreciation forthe things that their partner
(04:39):
did.
So they maintained andstrengthened that friendship in
a lot of very small, micromoment type interactions.
And the second thing was or thesecond ingredient, if you will,
is that they respectfullyregulated the conflict issues
that they had.
And the reality is, any timeyou live with another human
(05:02):
being or other human beings,there is inevitable conflict and
it's just how we do theconflict dance.
So we really looked at how didthat one third do conflict
compared to two thirds that werestruggling after having
children?
And a lot had to do with justrespectful communication.
(05:26):
And when they made mistakeslet's say a hurtful comment or a
contemptuous remark theyrecognized their oops and they
repaired it or said they weresorry.
They monitored and adjusted,they pivoted.
And then the third thing wasthey intentionally created a
shared family legacy.
(05:47):
It was intentional family.
They kept in touch with eachother's dreams, collective goals
as a family, what does it meanto be a family?
And they created ways ofstaying connected.
So all of this researchmotivated Dr Gottman to further
(06:08):
investigate that the two thirdsand the one third and create an
evidence based and researchtested transition to parenthood
workshop for expectant and newparents.
So that's the background.
Liz Hale (06:22):
Very cool.
What year was that?
Roughly Joni, basically thelate 90s.
Joni Parthemer (06:26):
Okay, the actual Bringing Baby Home study
started 1999 and went through2003-4 and we can talk more
about that as we go on.
I jokingly refer to Bringingbaby home as my third child
(06:47):
because I bet you do.
I had two young childrenbetween the research, so you
know, as we were gestating withit through, the study and then
developing the program, andimplementing and evaluating and
how did you happen to getinvolved, please?
Well, yeah, that was circa late90s and I was a birth and family
(07:13):
education specialist at a majormedical center in the Seattle
area and Dr Gottman came to ourhospital and our department, our
obstetrics, midwiferydepartment, and said hey, you
know, I've been doing thisresearch and I really want to do
a study to delve more into thisrelationship satisfaction when
(07:35):
people become parents.
And so he proposed a study.
He pitched a study to ourdepartment and several of our
staff, including myself, helpedwith the pregnant, the expecting
parents that were going gettingcare at our facility and taking
classes there, and enrolledsome of them in the study.
(07:59):
And, based on this research andwe put together a program.
We collaborated acrossdisciplines, so we had medicine,
we had psychology, neuroscience, we had development specialists
, social workers, nurses,educators everybody bringing
(08:19):
their skill sets so we couldcollaborate and say well, here's
what these folks are like,here's what they're struggling
with and here's what theresearch says.
And so we were trying to reallymake it applicable to folks'
lives and kind of put theoryinto practice, not just build
theory upon theory, which isgreat if you're a researcher,
(08:42):
but when you're wanting it toreally impact the everyday lives
of new families.
We wanted to collaborate withthe folks that were working with
them day in and day out, and sothe goal was to develop this
workshop to help participantsdiscuss what enhances and
shields and grows relationshipsbetween both partners partner to
(09:05):
partner and parents to childand so, yeah, that's how I
became involved.
Liz Hale (09:11):
Nice.
And were all those helpfulpeople?
Were all from Swedish MedicalCenter.
Joni Parthemer (09:17):
They were.
We had several differentcampuses.
So it was across the seattlemetropolitan area and yet that's
where the original bringingbaby home research was done
through the swedish medicalcenter organization network.
Very, very cool thank you andjody.
Dave Schramm (09:37):
I'm a big fan.
I'm personally a big fan of thethis bringing baby home program
, so, uh, needed.
As couples as they transitionto parents, it can be one of the
most stressful times for them.
I have a nephew who just gavebirth.
This past week we saw thatlittle newborn baby.
I have a daughter who's goingto give her first baby, we're
going to be grandparents in July, and so all this is very
(10:01):
relevant, urgent for mepersonally.
So I love the program andyou've been serving as the
working with it, as an educationdirector, as a training
specialist and part of theevaluation you mentioned a
little bit earlier.
Do you mind maybe not divinginto the deep aspect of it, but
it's a research, it's evidencebased, it's research based
program.
(10:21):
Can you tell us a little bitabout some of the results that
they've found?
Yeah, well, hey, welcome to theclub.
I'm a grandma now too.
Based program.
Can you tell us?
Joni Parthemer (10:25):
a little bit about some of the results that
they've found.
Yeah Well, hey, welcome to theclub.
I have a grandma now too.
I have a rising three-year-oldand a rising one-year-old, so
yes, congratulations to both.
Liz Hale (10:39):
of you Love it.
Joni Parthemer (10:41):
The results.
There were a lot of resultsno-transcript and there were
(11:16):
some pretty amazing results, andkeep in mind we're talking a
12-hour workshop, so it's prettyamazing that we could have some
of the effects I'm about toshare with you in that finite
amount of time.
So we followed these familiesuntil their children were two or
(11:38):
three, so it was a prettylong-term study.
So we were able not just to seehow they were doing after
taking the workshop, but howtheir children were developing
as well.
And folks who took the Brainand Baby Home Workshop
consistently reported highlystable relationship quality
compared to the folks thatdidn't.
(11:58):
The control group.
They reported less hostilityand increased affection during
conflict.
So remember that's a secretingredient of that second secret
ingredient of that secret sauce.
One result that really stoodout for us that we were not
necessarily expecting was thatmothers in particular showed
(12:22):
less signs of postpartum moodanxiety.
Yeah, adjustment disorders andthere's a whole spectrum of
perinatal mood disorders.
But remember we were doing thisresearch after they have the
babies.
That's why we say postpartum orafter Significant differences
(12:42):
between mothers who wereidentified as having postpartum
depression after taking theworkshop versus those that
didn't.
Fathers also showed fewer signsof depression and anxiety and
parents showed a greaterunderstanding of the social and
emotional development of theirbabies.
(13:04):
So there was more with that.
There was increasedco-parenting and cooperation, so
kind of the who does what andhow and how we work together as
a team.
And that's a huge adjustment innew parenting because there's
this whole role adjustment.
You know, what we did beforemay not be the calculus of what
(13:26):
we need to do now.
And babies whose parents tookthe workshop because the babies
didn't take the workshop, wefound that at one year they had
fewer language delays and theywere rated as showing less
distress, responses tolimitations or frustrations and
(13:48):
they responded I thought thiswas really fun more positively
to their parents' soothingefforts when they were
distressed.
So there was a lot that waslearned communication-wise and
also learning about babies.
Dave Schramm (14:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Joni Parthemer (14:06):
So so big picture it works right I even
say with the families when,because I don't dive deep into
the research but I want them toknow the basis of the workshop
and I show them some, just alist of what we found.
I said are y'all in?
Dave Schramm (14:25):
I mean yeah, really yeah, right, yeah yeah,
seriously now, and of course wedon't have time to dive into
everything that the program has.
But, as I mentioned earlier, wehave a daughter who's going to
give birth here in july and, um,are there tips?
You know, atop a few tips orsuggestions, counsel, advice
that you would give my daughterand others when they're
(14:48):
expecting.
You know that time is comingfor them, so they're either
preparing to be parents orthey're in that first, you know,
first few months of beingparents.
What are some your best tips?
Joni Parthemer (15:01):
Well and honestly, I think the workshop
taking the workshop just becauseit covers so many bases.
In fact, this is always my babyshower gift to friends or
family members.
I give them a registration tobe at an in-person or an online
(15:22):
virtual webinar BBH workshop.
I did for my son, I did for myniece, I do it for close friends
Because it gives people theopportunity to have these
crucial conversations that theymay not be thinking about, about
parenting and partnering postbaby.
They're so focused on the birth, understandably so.
(15:44):
But aside from the workshop, Ithink one of my main pieces of
information, because people areso focused on the birth day, is
to come up with a postpartumplan, and we have.
There's several out there.
We have one.
(16:05):
But I try to keep things prettypragmatic for my parents and I
say remember the acronym NURSE,nurse yourself, and the N stands
for nutrition.
Okay, just think what can we doproactively, be it a meal train
or cooking and freezing mealsahead of time, or going to a big
(16:25):
box store and getting somehealthy snacks that can be just
set aside.
But we all know how importantit is to nourish ourselves right
, and that gets harder andharder because when you have a
baby, there's more to do withseemingly less time.
So to cover that nurse, that Nin nurse, the U is for
(16:48):
understanding and that reallygets to.
What does support mean for us?
And I joke with my families.
I said, on your way home, pickup a deck of index cards and
every time you find yourselfdoing what I call a grunt task
just like you know, likeemptying the dishwasher,
(17:10):
changing the oil fill in theblank right, write it on an
index card and then afterwards,after the baby is born and when
you're ready to have folks comeover and they ask you the
inevitable and they will isthere anything I can do for you?
Stand in front of your boltedfront door, splay your deck of
(17:30):
index cards and say pick a card.
But just to really we guidethem to have conversations about
what does support look like foryou and what doesn't, because
what I may have felt wassupportive to my son and
daughter-in-law may not be whatwas supportive for their family,
(17:53):
and I think that's a goodlaunching point for new parents
to start setting theirboundaries as well.
So nutrition and understanding,and understanding the R stands
(18:15):
for rest and resources, sofinding some way to get some
semblance of rest in therebecause there is a loss of sleep
, because babies are not on thesleep patterns we are, because
developmentally and we talkabout this they're not capable
of that.
They're still growing, growingand so we delve into that.
But, again, a big part of theBringing Baby Home Workshop is
(18:38):
we give them this research-basedinformation, but it's not about
what we think is reallyimportant for them to learn.
It's that nugget that they takeand together as a team, they
personalize and individualize itto their lives and develop that
.
And I can't tell you how manytimes years later we have
(18:58):
couples coming back to us sayingI can't tell you how that one
tip was my lifeline.
So nutrition, understanding,rest and resources.
The S in the acronym, nurse,stands for tending to your soul,
your spirit.
That could be just whatevermakes you remember that you've
(19:22):
been a me longer than you'vebeen a we, a partner, and longer
than you've been this newfamily, and you've got to still
nurture that individual part ofyourself.
So what is that?
It could be faith-based, itcould be gardening, it could be
yoga, it could be reading, itcould be what's that one thing
(19:42):
we are going to make sure thatJoni gets to do each week?
Or what's that one thing thatthe partner gets to do, or just
making sure that that's apriority, just like nutrition
and understanding and rest?
Is so nutrition, understanding,rest and resources.
What are the resources in yourarea?
(20:04):
And feeding your soul?
And then the E in the acronymnurse is for exercise, and I
mean literally strapping thatbaby in a you know a carrier,
carrier going out for a walk andgetting that light in your eye
which we know, that vitamin Dand all that gets in, just
(20:27):
realizing there's a worldoutside of your abode where
you're taking care of a new babyall day, beautiful.
Liz Hale (20:36):
I love that Nurse Ekern.
Dave Schramm (20:37):
Yeah, I was chatting that down too.
That's awesome.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message and we're back,
let's dive right in.
Liz Hale (20:58):
You also mentioned you have a childbirth preparation
webinar.
Sounds like another great giftfor an expected couple, dave,
maybe.
Huh, yeah, what are the thingsyou cover for both parents when
it comes to preparing forchildbirth both parents to be?
Joni Parthemer (21:13):
yeah, well, um, there's a lot of um childbirth
classes offered out there, um,and they parents come to a
childbirth class expecting umand we deliver it.
They're definitely it's no punintended um, they want to know
about the birth process, theywant to know about comfort
(21:35):
measures.
Uh, they want to know aboutmedications, they want to know
about interventions andbasically the purpose of a
childbirth education program isto give them realistic
expectations about the birthprocess and what they can expect
(21:56):
, their choices around painmanagement.
I feel it's really important tofind out when I teach, or when I
taught child representationclasses, to find out the why,
the why of why each partner isthere.
Because I have my curriculum toteach and I'm definitely going
(22:18):
to do that.
But that helps me personalizeand individualize it, lets me
know where to lay more emphasisin the class and where maybe
something that I was going tospend more time on may not be as
important to my class.
So I can monitor and adjustthat.
Because, in my experience, if Iwere to tease out what's most
(22:39):
important to each partner, firstof all I want to try to find
out what that is, but I reallywant to provide them the
opportunity to discuss theiroptions in childbirth and new
parenting and start having againthose crucial conversations
with one another so that theyfeel like they're a team going
(23:01):
into birth and new parenting,and I really want them to leave
class with an increased level ofinformed decision making so
they can, as situations arrivein birth and in new parenting,
they can take information andknow they'll have freedom of
(23:26):
choice based on knowledge ofalternatives.
Dave Schramm (23:31):
Yeah, love that.
Now, the Gottmans.
They have so many wonderfulresources that they have created
over the years.
One of my favorites actually isthis and I've just heard of it
several years ago, I guess nowbut emotional attunement, this
emotional attunement and youremotion coach.
You remind us that childrenneed to feel a strong connection
(23:53):
with their caregivers.
It's this attachment, right?
And you add that infants thrivewhen their needs are met and
when they feel loved andunderstood.
Yet how do you connect withbabies on an emotional level
when they are so young?
Joni Parthemer (24:07):
Okay.
So we affectionately refer tothis as CPR parenting and by
that we spend a lot of time inthe workshop talking about the
importance of being consistentas a team from the very
beginning with our infants andour children, predictable and
(24:30):
responsive.
So CPR consistent, predictableand responsive Because when
infants consistently receiveresponsive attention to their
needs, they develop a sense ofsecurity.
Okay, that's how they learnabout the world right and they
know that their needs will bemet.
You can't spoil an infant.
(24:52):
Okay, if they don't havemanipulative skills, if they're
in stress, it's because theyhave a need that we need to meet
.
So we talk a lot about how CPRconsistent, predictable and
responsive parenting reallyhelps.
That's basically the buildingblocks of parent-child
(25:13):
connection and helping childdevelopment.
So in the Brainy Baby HomeWorkshop we talk about because
they are I mean, they're verbal,but they're not speaking words
yet, right?
So how do they communicate?
We talk about infant states ofconsciousness.
They have different alertstates and they have different
(25:34):
sleep states, so that parentsstart understanding what's going
on with their babies and knowthe best times to interact with
them.
We talk about how infants andcues they're communicating with
us the minute they're born, evenif they're not verbalizing
(25:54):
words.
We talk about how they signaltheir cues and how that develops
stage to stage.
We talk about the importance ofphysical touch, stage to stage.
We talk about the importance ofphysical touch.
Okay, and it's a great way tocommunicate love and security.
And if you think of all theways that we're touching our
(26:14):
infants we're seeking them,we're holding them, we're
changing diapers, we're raisingrich, it's a wonderful medium of
communication, the power oftouch to build that emotional
bond.
So, yeah, I mean, they'recommunicating with us from the
beginning and we just need tolearn about how they communicate
(26:39):
when they're non-verbal.
Dave Schramm (26:42):
Yeah, love it.
Liz Hale (26:43):
Wow, that just sounds like something right.
I can't even imagine.
We love that you are offeringsupport to grandparents like our
dear Dave and Jamie, because,like expected parents,
grandparents are also goingthrough an exciting
transformation.
How do you think, joni, thisrole of grandparenting has
shifted over time?
(27:03):
Now it can vary from culture toculture.
Joni Parthemer (27:05):
Parenting has shifted over time.
Now it can vary from culture toculture and, having said that,
the role of grandparents hasundergone some pretty
significant changes over time,In many cultures, being seen
primarily as a source of wisdomand a source of family history,
(27:26):
which certainly they are moreand more over the past few
decades, grandparents areincreasingly taking on a real
active, interactive role withtheir grandchildren, Be they far
away or close.
Technology has helpedaccelerate that.
They're more involved in theday-to-day lives of their
(27:48):
grandchildren, sometimes evenstepping in as primary
caregivers.
So there's this increasingrecognition of the value of this
multi-generational village forchildren, and they're much more
likely to participate ineducational activities and
provide emotional support toboth parents and grandchildren
(28:11):
and to really be a socialsupport network for the family.
And, yeah, so primarily justgoing from not just, but from
being an elder in the family tobeing an integral part of the
whole family system.
Liz Hale (28:31):
That is so beautiful, so you have so bringing baby
home.
We have that bringing baby home.
The next one is childbirth.
Tell me the whole title of that.
Childbirth it's just achildbirth preparation Great
Offer online, and then just achildbirth preparation version
Great.
And then there's one for onlineand then the one for
grandparents yeah, and they'reall well.
Joni Parthemer (28:48):
Childbirth is childbirth.
However, we do slip in somebringing baby home research in
there and the grandparentprogram is based around the
research in the bringing babyhome program research in the
Bringing Baby Home programbecause a lot of people take the
Bringing Baby Home workshopeither in person, if it's
available in their area, oronline with us, and then they
(29:10):
want their parents to take thegrandparent class because they
want to make sure there's talkabout that CPR parenting
consistent, predictable,responsive and want their
parents to see what they've beenlearning that they're going to
integrate into their parentingso that there can be some
consistency and understandingthat it's amazing to cover all
(29:31):
those bases.
Dave Schramm (29:31):
Joni, that's very cool yeah, joni, as I think
about our own daughter who'sgoing to be delivering um here
later this summer.
I think you know what is what'sthe best support that we can
give um, her, uh, daughter, aswell as you know, a new
granddaughter.
Are there boundaries?
You know, I get excited and Ihave all the background, you
(29:52):
know, a PhD in family studiesand so I'm going to be so
anxious, oh, don't do this.
Is there a kind of a boundariesthat some of our listeners that
have?
You know, parents andgrandparents who are just really
you just really overeager andwanting to jump in there.
What's kind of the balance ofthat role?
Yeah, wow.
Joni Parthemer (30:10):
You're making me kind of laugh because I'm you.
I needed to edit myself as agrandparent, you know.
I think the number one piece ofadvice, if the core question
there is really how can we bethe best support to our children
(30:31):
as they become parents and nowus as grandparents is to ask
them what support looks like forthat and this kind of brings me
back to that nurse acronym.
If they've done that or donesome type of a postpartum plan,
(30:51):
we can communicate with eachother about where they see us as
grandparents fitting in on thespectrum of that nutrition,
understanding, rest andresources, filling their soul,
exercise, et cetera.
And I think that's a greatplace to start.
Be positive.
I mean, you know, amateur baby,amateur parents, amateur
(31:15):
grandparents right.
When a baby is one day old,we're one day old parents.
When we're pregnant or adoptingparents, that's what we are.
When our children are waddlersor toddlers, we're waddler and
toddler parents.
When they're twins and teens,when they're adults, we're adult
(31:35):
parents.
You know, for those of us whobecome parents, we're going to
be spending the majority of ourlife course parenting, and that
it's going to be parentingthrough different transitional
seasons.
Right, and, and that's whatparenting is, because once
you've got this season down,you've figured it out, guess
what?
They become a wobbler ortoddler and now we're relearning
(31:58):
things all again.
So, just being really beingpositive, um, because there is
such a thing as emotionalcontagion, uh and um, I just, I
just really, more than anything,I think it's being a support,
whatever they see as support, umfor their family mobile.
(32:20):
Because when um I use thismetaphor, a lot, metaphor,
analogy when we partner with aperson and we decide we're going
to have committed relationshipwith them, we bring our piece of
the mobile, they bring theirs,and there's some calibration
that has to happen, right, thewho does what?
The finances the.
(32:40):
This is how I do conflict, doconflict.
You know there's ups and downs,balances, but we kind of figure
it out.
Then we decide to bring a babyhome and kerplunk, there goes
another part of the mobile thatwe've never had to calibrate
before.
So there's this adjustment thatis continually going on through
the different seasons of infant, toddler, toddler, teen, and no
(33:07):
matter you know what the seasonis.
We have to keep calibratingthat mobile.
So ultimately, I guess, as faras support, it's kind of what
your podcast goal is.
You know, to contributecommitment, compassion and
connection to your daughter asshe begins parenting.
Dave Schramm (33:30):
I love it.
That's great, great counsel,great advice.
Thank you, joni.
Joni, it's that time in ourinterview where we'd like to ask
the one particular question inhonor of the name of our podcast
Stronger Marriage Connection.
Joni Parthemer (33:51):
In your mind, your experience and your
research, what is the key to astronger marriage connection?
Key to the stronger marriageconnection?
The word equanimity comes tomind, and I don't mean things
being necessarily equal, butequanimity or balanced, a
feeling of working together as ateam to celebrate the wins as
(34:12):
new parents and to work with thechallenges, the inevitable
challenges of becoming parents.
Remember kind of that mobilethat we're going to try to help
balance things out.
And when one person is way downhere, we're going to have to
see what we can do in therelationship and what roles we
(34:33):
may need to adjust in the familyso that we can balance that out
.
And that gets to thisattunement of the micro moments.
(35:02):
Back is to this attunement ofthe micro moments.
The everyday small interactionsthat add up get stressful and
they will.
To take a beat, to take abreath and consider is what I'm
about to say or ruminate about,or what I'm about to do going to
(35:24):
affect or harm my relationship?
Will it enhance it or will itdetract?
So just take a beat, you know,and a breath and just think
about am I reacting or am Irespectfully being a teammate
with my partner?
And I think very importantlyand Dr Gottman emphasized, when
(35:48):
there's a oops, when there's amistake, when there's a rupture,
make a repair, and there willbe lots of those.
Dave Schramm (35:58):
There will be, yeah.
Liz Hale (36:01):
Great, wow, that's amazing.
I love all these reminders.
Where can our listeners andviewers go to find out more
about you?
These three great workshopsExcuse me, I'm bringing baby
home Childbirth and the workshopfor grandparents, and all the
other great resources you offer,please.
Joni Parthemer (36:21):
Yeah, so my website is JP, so Joby Price b
price, my jp trains andspeakscom and they can read
about all of our offerings andour bringing baby home workshop
and we offer that online.
It's it's really, um, I I missdoing the workshops in person.
Um, we don't do as many ofthose now because of all things,
(36:44):
but one of the really specialthings about offering it online
has been the access it's givenpeople.
We have in a typical Bring inBaby Home workshop, which we run
over three three-hour sessions.
We have people from all overthe world, and so these folks
are from different cultures,different time zones, different
(37:08):
everything, and what they havein common is they want to be the
best parents they can be andthe best partners they can be,
have them join in community andbe a network for each other.
It's really special.
And then the Dottman Institutehas a lot of different resources
.
They have a parenting programnow that's relatively new.
(37:32):
They have different apps andnewsletters for parents and they
have a podcast called SmallThings.
Often, and also anyone cancontact me if they'd like.
I'm Joni J-O-N-I, dot Parthamerat P-A-R-T-H-E-M-E-R at
gmailcom.
Dave Schramm (37:54):
Thanks, joni.
We will actually put all thoseresources and link.
We'll put those in our shownotes for our listeners.
So yeah, listeners, be sure tocheck those out.
Joan, before we let you go,we'd like to ask all of our
guests another question, andthat is your takeaway.
Do you have a takeaway of theday?
Is what we call it here amessage you hope our listeners
(38:15):
will remember from ourdiscussion today?
Joni Parthemer (38:18):
Yeah, I think I would just say that the little
fishies are only as healthy asthe ecosystem of the family fish
tank.
So the greatest gift anotherway of saying that is the
greatest gift we can give ourchildren is a healthy
relationship between the two ofus, Whatever the status of our
(38:43):
marriage or our connection wehave, yeah, whether parents are
still together or divorced orwhatever, you're still their
parents and you're stillmodeling a relationship to your
children and that's going to bethe basis for how they develop
their relationships ongoingthroughout their lives.
(39:05):
So, really being attuned tothat family fish tank and is it
easy, breezy, or is it icky,sticky kind of type of thing and
again I'll come back to thatsecret sauce of relationships
Maintain and strengthenfriendship, regulate conflict
and create shared meaning andrituals of connection together.
(39:26):
That is what sustainssatisfying partner-to-partner
and parent-child relationships.
Dave Schramm (39:34):
Fantastic, all kinds of great nuggets here.
What about you?
What's your takeaway?
Liz Hale (39:39):
Yeah, I took copious notes, dave, let's see.
So I love the CPR of parentingand I wonder if that could be
CPR in many relationships.
Actually, joni and Dave, theconsistency, the predictability
and the responsiveness I thinkthat's just beautiful, for even
marriage or friendship.
So I love the CPR.
(40:00):
I really do, dave.
What about you?
What would you say is thegolden nugget from our time
today with educator JoniParthomer?
Dave Schramm (40:07):
Yeah, you're kind of stepping back and taking the
big picture, Liz and Joni.
What's really stood out for meis the importance of education.
We have so many great resourcestoday, opportunities to learn
if we want to be the very bestthat we can be as a partner, as
a parent, as a person.
There's so much that we canreach out, so I hope our
(40:28):
listeners will take advantage ofthat.
To go to it was JP Trains andSpeaks.
Is that right?
Did I get that?
Liz Hale (40:33):
right.
Dave Schramm (40:33):
Yes, go to the website and here at the Utah
Marriage Commission, go tostrongermarriageorg or Healthy
Relationships, utah.
We're in right.
The reach of this.
Our podcast goes all 50 Statesand 80 countries and so,
wherever you are, you canactually jump on one of Joni's
trainings virtually, as shementioned, all over the world.
(40:54):
So I hope that you'll takeadvantage of so many
opportunities to to improvethrough through education.
Well, joni, it has been such ajoy for us to have you, and Liz
and I have taken all kinds of ofof notes and I'm sure our
listeners will as well.
We just want to express ourappreciation once again.
(41:16):
Joni, thanks for coming ontoday.
Joni Parthemer (41:18):
Thank you, and thank you for what you do for
families.
Dave Schramm (41:21):
Thank you.
Well, that's it for us.
Our friends, that does it forus.
We will see you again next time.
Another episode of StrongerMarriage Connection.
Liz Hale (41:30):
And remember it's the small and simple things that
create a stronger marriageconnection.
Dave Schramm (41:38):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram at
(41:59):
Stronger Marriage Life, andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(42:20):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
(42:43):
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
On today's episode , dr Liz and I have a wonderful
discussion with Joni Parthimerabout all things related to the
stress and struggles of newparents and specifically how it
affects the couple relationship.
Using NERS as an acronym, jonishares some helpful tips on what
mothers should focus on afterbringing the baby home.
(00:24):
Some helpful tips on whatmothers should focus on after
bringing the baby home.
She also shares some helpfuleducational resources, not only
for new parents but forgrandparents as well.
Joni Parthomer is aninternationally certified
childbirth educator and approvedtrainer.
She is lead instructor for theSimpkins Center Childbirth
Educator Training at BastyrUniversity.
Joni serves as the educationdirector and master trainer for
(00:47):
the Bringing Baby Home programat the Gottman Institute and is
an educational consultant to anumber of organizations
worldwide.
She has worked as a birth andfamily education specialist at
Swedish Medical Center and hasdeveloped, published and
implemented a variety oftraining materials for educators
interested in providing supportand growth programs for
(01:09):
families.
She is married with two grownchildren and two grandchildren.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Liz Hale (01:22):
Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection.
I'm psychologist, dr Liz Hale,along with my friend, the
beloved professor Dr DaveSchramm.
Together we have dedicated ourlife's work to bringing you the
best we have in valid maritalresearch, along with a few tips
and tools to help you create themarriage of your dreams.
Well, today, listenersespecially parents you are in
(01:45):
for a real treat.
Our guest educator, joniParthimer, has spent several
decades working with thousandsof parents and professionals
worldwide through Dr JohnGottman's Bringing Baby Home
program.
We love that program here onStronger Marriage Connection.
You've done that, and then some, joni.
Welcome to Stronger MarriageConnection, my friend.
(02:05):
Thank you.
Joni Parthemer (02:06):
I'm glad to be here with you both and with your
listeners.
Liz Hale (02:10):
We are honored as well .
Joni, please remind us of thestory behind bringing baby home
that workshop, and where did itall begin?
Joni Parthemer (02:19):
Oh, yes.
So Dr Gottman, as you well mayknow, and his team have been
researching relationships forwell over 50 years and looking
at what helps and fostershealthy, satisfying
relationships and what damagesand hurts them.
And he noticed a pivotal pointin many folks lives, especially
(02:43):
for those who became parents,and what the research was
showing that approximatelytwo-thirds 67%-ish in change of
folks who became parents have asignificant drop in relationship
satisfaction in the first oneto three years after they became
parents.
(03:04):
And there was a lot to belearned from that because we
could look at their interactions, their family interactions, and
look at what wasn't going well.
And we learned about the todon'ts to do in relationships
and that can be helpful.
But then we thought you knowwhat?
(03:24):
Let's also look at the to do'sand three key themes came out of
(03:53):
all of that.
We looked at what Dr Gottmancalls masters of relationships,
those that maintained orstrengthened their relationships
, and three key attributes cameout, or I like to think of them
when I teach workshops I talkabout.
They're the three ingredients,if you will, to the secret sauce
(04:15):
of healthy, sustainingrelationships.
And the first was that thesemasters can focus on maintaining
and strengthening theirfriendship partners to partner.
They stay attuned to theirpartner's life, what was going
on in their world.
They expressed appreciation forthe things that their partner
(04:39):
did.
So they maintained andstrengthened that friendship in
a lot of very small, micromoment type interactions.
And the second thing was or thesecond ingredient, if you will,
is that they respectfullyregulated the conflict issues
that they had.
And the reality is, any timeyou live with another human
(05:02):
being or other human beings,there is inevitable conflict and
it's just how we do theconflict dance.
So we really looked at how didthat one third do conflict
compared to two thirds that werestruggling after having
children?
And a lot had to do with justrespectful communication.
(05:26):
And when they made mistakeslet's say a hurtful comment or a
contemptuous remark theyrecognized their oops and they
repaired it or said they weresorry.
They monitored and adjusted,they pivoted.
And then the third thing wasthey intentionally created a
shared family legacy.
(05:47):
It was intentional family.
They kept in touch with eachother's dreams, collective goals
as a family, what does it meanto be a family?
And they created ways ofstaying connected.
So all of this researchmotivated Dr Gottman to further
(06:08):
investigate that the two thirdsand the one third and create an
evidence based and researchtested transition to parenthood
workshop for expectant and newparents.
So that's the background.
Liz Hale (06:22):
Very cool.
What year was that?
Roughly Joni, basically thelate 90s.
Joni Parthemer (06:26):
Okay, the actual Bringing Baby Home study
started 1999 and went through2003-4 and we can talk more
about that as we go on.
I jokingly refer to Bringingbaby home as my third child
(06:47):
because I bet you do.
I had two young childrenbetween the research, so you
know, as we were gestating withit through, the study and then
developing the program, andimplementing and evaluating and
how did you happen to getinvolved, please?
Well, yeah, that was circa late90s and I was a birth and family
(07:13):
education specialist at a majormedical center in the Seattle
area and Dr Gottman came to ourhospital and our department, our
obstetrics, midwiferydepartment, and said hey, you
know, I've been doing thisresearch and I really want to do
a study to delve more into thisrelationship satisfaction when
(07:35):
people become parents.
And so he proposed a study.
He pitched a study to ourdepartment and several of our
staff, including myself, helpedwith the pregnant, the expecting
parents that were going gettingcare at our facility and taking
classes there, and enrolledsome of them in the study.
(07:59):
And, based on this research andwe put together a program.
We collaborated acrossdisciplines, so we had medicine,
we had psychology, neuroscience, we had development specialists
, social workers, nurses,educators everybody bringing
(08:19):
their skill sets so we couldcollaborate and say well, here's
what these folks are like,here's what they're struggling
with and here's what theresearch says.
And so we were trying to reallymake it applicable to folks'
lives and kind of put theoryinto practice, not just build
theory upon theory, which isgreat if you're a researcher,
(08:42):
but when you're wanting it toreally impact the everyday lives
of new families.
We wanted to collaborate withthe folks that were working with
them day in and day out, and sothe goal was to develop this
workshop to help participantsdiscuss what enhances and
shields and grows relationshipsbetween both partners partner to
(09:05):
partner and parents to childand so, yeah, that's how I
became involved.
Liz Hale (09:11):
Nice.
And were all those helpfulpeople?
Were all from Swedish MedicalCenter.
Joni Parthemer (09:17):
They were.
We had several differentcampuses.
So it was across the seattlemetropolitan area and yet that's
where the original bringingbaby home research was done
through the swedish medicalcenter organization network.
Very, very cool thank you andjody.
Dave Schramm (09:37):
I'm a big fan.
I'm personally a big fan of thethis bringing baby home program
, so, uh, needed.
As couples as they transitionto parents, it can be one of the
most stressful times for them.
I have a nephew who just gavebirth.
This past week we saw thatlittle newborn baby.
I have a daughter who's goingto give her first baby, we're
going to be grandparents in July, and so all this is very
(10:01):
relevant, urgent for mepersonally.
So I love the program andyou've been serving as the
working with it, as an educationdirector, as a training
specialist and part of theevaluation you mentioned a
little bit earlier.
Do you mind maybe not divinginto the deep aspect of it, but
it's a research, it's evidencebased, it's research based
program.
(10:21):
Can you tell us a little bitabout some of the results that
they've found?
Yeah, well, hey, welcome to theclub.
I'm a grandma now too.
Based program.
Can you tell us?
Joni Parthemer (10:25):
a little bit about some of the results that
they've found.
Yeah Well, hey, welcome to theclub.
I have a grandma now too.
I have a rising three-year-oldand a rising one-year-old, so
yes, congratulations to both.
Liz Hale (10:39):
of you Love it.
Joni Parthemer (10:41):
The results.
There were a lot of resultsno-transcript and there were
(11:16):
some pretty amazing results, andkeep in mind we're talking a
12-hour workshop, so it's prettyamazing that we could have some
of the effects I'm about toshare with you in that finite
amount of time.
So we followed these familiesuntil their children were two or
(11:38):
three, so it was a prettylong-term study.
So we were able not just to seehow they were doing after
taking the workshop, but howtheir children were developing
as well.
And folks who took the Brainand Baby Home Workshop
consistently reported highlystable relationship quality
compared to the folks thatdidn't.
(11:58):
The control group.
They reported less hostilityand increased affection during
conflict.
So remember that's a secretingredient of that second secret
ingredient of that secret sauce.
One result that really stoodout for us that we were not
necessarily expecting was thatmothers in particular showed
(12:22):
less signs of postpartum moodanxiety.
Yeah, adjustment disorders andthere's a whole spectrum of
perinatal mood disorders.
But remember we were doing thisresearch after they have the
babies.
That's why we say postpartum orafter Significant differences
(12:42):
between mothers who wereidentified as having postpartum
depression after taking theworkshop versus those that
didn't.
Fathers also showed fewer signsof depression and anxiety and
parents showed a greaterunderstanding of the social and
emotional development of theirbabies.
(13:04):
So there was more with that.
There was increasedco-parenting and cooperation, so
kind of the who does what andhow and how we work together as
a team.
And that's a huge adjustment innew parenting because there's
this whole role adjustment.
You know, what we did beforemay not be the calculus of what
(13:26):
we need to do now.
And babies whose parents tookthe workshop because the babies
didn't take the workshop, wefound that at one year they had
fewer language delays and theywere rated as showing less
distress, responses tolimitations or frustrations and
(13:48):
they responded I thought thiswas really fun more positively
to their parents' soothingefforts when they were
distressed.
So there was a lot that waslearned communication-wise and
also learning about babies.
Dave Schramm (14:04):
Yeah, yeah.
Joni Parthemer (14:06):
So so big picture it works right I even
say with the families when,because I don't dive deep into
the research but I want them toknow the basis of the workshop
and I show them some, just alist of what we found.
I said are y'all in?
Dave Schramm (14:25):
I mean yeah, really yeah, right, yeah yeah,
seriously now, and of course wedon't have time to dive into
everything that the program has.
But, as I mentioned earlier, wehave a daughter who's going to
give birth here in july and, um,are there tips?
You know, atop a few tips orsuggestions, counsel, advice
that you would give my daughterand others when they're
(14:48):
expecting.
You know that time is comingfor them, so they're either
preparing to be parents orthey're in that first, you know,
first few months of beingparents.
What are some your best tips?
Joni Parthemer (15:01):
Well and honestly, I think the workshop
taking the workshop just becauseit covers so many bases.
In fact, this is always my babyshower gift to friends or
family members.
I give them a registration tobe at an in-person or an online
(15:22):
virtual webinar BBH workshop.
I did for my son, I did for myniece, I do it for close friends
Because it gives people theopportunity to have these
crucial conversations that theymay not be thinking about, about
parenting and partnering postbaby.
They're so focused on the birth, understandably so.
(15:44):
But aside from the workshop, Ithink one of my main pieces of
information, because people areso focused on the birth day, is
to come up with a postpartumplan, and we have.
There's several out there.
We have one.
(16:05):
But I try to keep things prettypragmatic for my parents and I
say remember the acronym NURSE,nurse yourself, and the N stands
for nutrition.
Okay, just think what can we doproactively, be it a meal train
or cooking and freezing mealsahead of time, or going to a big
(16:25):
box store and getting somehealthy snacks that can be just
set aside.
But we all know how importantit is to nourish ourselves right
, and that gets harder andharder because when you have a
baby, there's more to do withseemingly less time.
So to cover that nurse, that Nin nurse, the U is for
(16:48):
understanding and that reallygets to.
What does support mean for us?
And I joke with my families.
I said, on your way home, pickup a deck of index cards and
every time you find yourselfdoing what I call a grunt task
just like you know, likeemptying the dishwasher,
(17:10):
changing the oil fill in theblank right, write it on an
index card and then afterwards,after the baby is born and when
you're ready to have folks comeover and they ask you the
inevitable and they will isthere anything I can do for you?
Stand in front of your boltedfront door, splay your deck of
(17:30):
index cards and say pick a card.
But just to really we guidethem to have conversations about
what does support look like foryou and what doesn't, because
what I may have felt wassupportive to my son and
daughter-in-law may not be whatwas supportive for their family,
(17:53):
and I think that's a goodlaunching point for new parents
to start setting theirboundaries as well.
So nutrition and understanding,and understanding the R stands
(18:15):
for rest and resources, sofinding some way to get some
semblance of rest in therebecause there is a loss of sleep
, because babies are not on thesleep patterns we are, because
developmentally and we talkabout this they're not capable
of that.
They're still growing, growingand so we delve into that.
But, again, a big part of theBringing Baby Home Workshop is
(18:38):
we give them this research-basedinformation, but it's not about
what we think is reallyimportant for them to learn.
It's that nugget that they takeand together as a team, they
personalize and individualize itto their lives and develop that
.
And I can't tell you how manytimes years later we have
(18:58):
couples coming back to us sayingI can't tell you how that one
tip was my lifeline.
So nutrition, understanding,rest and resources.
The S in the acronym, nurse,stands for tending to your soul,
your spirit.
That could be just whatevermakes you remember that you've
(19:22):
been a me longer than you'vebeen a we, a partner, and longer
than you've been this newfamily, and you've got to still
nurture that individual part ofyourself.
So what is that?
It could be faith-based, itcould be gardening, it could be
yoga, it could be reading, itcould be what's that one thing
(19:42):
we are going to make sure thatJoni gets to do each week?
Or what's that one thing thatthe partner gets to do, or just
making sure that that's apriority, just like nutrition
and understanding and rest?
Is so nutrition, understanding,rest and resources.
What are the resources in yourarea?
(20:04):
And feeding your soul?
And then the E in the acronymnurse is for exercise, and I
mean literally strapping thatbaby in a you know a carrier,
carrier going out for a walk andgetting that light in your eye
which we know, that vitamin Dand all that gets in, just
(20:27):
realizing there's a worldoutside of your abode where
you're taking care of a new babyall day, beautiful.
Liz Hale (20:36):
I love that Nurse Ekern.
Dave Schramm (20:37):
Yeah, I was chatting that down too.
That's awesome.
We'll be right back after thisbrief message and we're back,
let's dive right in.
Liz Hale (20:58):
You also mentioned you have a childbirth preparation
webinar.
Sounds like another great giftfor an expected couple, dave,
maybe.
Huh, yeah, what are the thingsyou cover for both parents when
it comes to preparing forchildbirth both parents to be?
Joni Parthemer (21:13):
yeah, well, um, there's a lot of um childbirth
classes offered out there, um,and they parents come to a
childbirth class expecting umand we deliver it.
They're definitely it's no punintended um, they want to know
about the birth process, theywant to know about comfort
(21:35):
measures.
Uh, they want to know aboutmedications, they want to know
about interventions andbasically the purpose of a
childbirth education program isto give them realistic
expectations about the birthprocess and what they can expect
(21:56):
, their choices around painmanagement.
I feel it's really important tofind out when I teach, or when I
taught child representationclasses, to find out the why,
the why of why each partner isthere.
Because I have my curriculum toteach and I'm definitely going
(22:18):
to do that.
But that helps me personalizeand individualize it, lets me
know where to lay more emphasisin the class and where maybe
something that I was going tospend more time on may not be as
important to my class.
So I can monitor and adjustthat.
Because, in my experience, if Iwere to tease out what's most
(22:39):
important to each partner, firstof all I want to try to find
out what that is, but I reallywant to provide them the
opportunity to discuss theiroptions in childbirth and new
parenting and start having againthose crucial conversations
with one another so that theyfeel like they're a team going
(23:01):
into birth and new parenting,and I really want them to leave
class with an increased level ofinformed decision making so
they can, as situations arrivein birth and in new parenting,
they can take information andknow they'll have freedom of
(23:26):
choice based on knowledge ofalternatives.
Dave Schramm (23:31):
Yeah, love that.
Now, the Gottmans.
They have so many wonderfulresources that they have created
over the years.
One of my favorites actually isthis and I've just heard of it
several years ago, I guess nowbut emotional attunement, this
emotional attunement and youremotion coach.
You remind us that childrenneed to feel a strong connection
(23:53):
with their caregivers.
It's this attachment, right?
And you add that infants thrivewhen their needs are met and
when they feel loved andunderstood.
Yet how do you connect withbabies on an emotional level
when they are so young?
Joni Parthemer (24:07):
Okay.
So we affectionately refer tothis as CPR parenting and by
that we spend a lot of time inthe workshop talking about the
importance of being consistentas a team from the very
beginning with our infants andour children, predictable and
(24:30):
responsive.
So CPR consistent, predictableand responsive Because when
infants consistently receiveresponsive attention to their
needs, they develop a sense ofsecurity.
Okay, that's how they learnabout the world right and they
know that their needs will bemet.
You can't spoil an infant.
(24:52):
Okay, if they don't havemanipulative skills, if they're
in stress, it's because theyhave a need that we need to meet
.
So we talk a lot about how CPRconsistent, predictable and
responsive parenting reallyhelps.
That's basically the buildingblocks of parent-child
(25:13):
connection and helping childdevelopment.
So in the Brainy Baby HomeWorkshop we talk about because
they are I mean, they're verbal,but they're not speaking words
yet, right?
So how do they communicate?
We talk about infant states ofconsciousness.
They have different alertstates and they have different
(25:34):
sleep states, so that parentsstart understanding what's going
on with their babies and knowthe best times to interact with
them.
We talk about how infants andcues they're communicating with
us the minute they're born, evenif they're not verbalizing
(25:54):
words.
We talk about how they signaltheir cues and how that develops
stage to stage.
We talk about the importance ofphysical touch, stage to stage.
We talk about the importance ofphysical touch.
Okay, and it's a great way tocommunicate love and security.
And if you think of all theways that we're touching our
(26:14):
infants we're seeking them,we're holding them, we're
changing diapers, we're raisingrich, it's a wonderful medium of
communication, the power oftouch to build that emotional
bond.
So, yeah, I mean, they'recommunicating with us from the
beginning and we just need tolearn about how they communicate
(26:39):
when they're non-verbal.
Dave Schramm (26:42):
Yeah, love it.
Liz Hale (26:43):
Wow, that just sounds like something right.
I can't even imagine.
We love that you are offeringsupport to grandparents like our
dear Dave and Jamie, because,like expected parents,
grandparents are also goingthrough an exciting
transformation.
How do you think, joni, thisrole of grandparenting has
shifted over time?
(27:03):
Now it can vary from culture toculture.
Joni Parthemer (27:05):
Parenting has shifted over time.
Now it can vary from culture toculture and, having said that,
the role of grandparents hasundergone some pretty
significant changes over time,In many cultures, being seen
primarily as a source of wisdomand a source of family history,
(27:26):
which certainly they are moreand more over the past few
decades, grandparents areincreasingly taking on a real
active, interactive role withtheir grandchildren, Be they far
away or close.
Technology has helpedaccelerate that.
They're more involved in theday-to-day lives of their
(27:48):
grandchildren, sometimes evenstepping in as primary
caregivers.
So there's this increasingrecognition of the value of this
multi-generational village forchildren, and they're much more
likely to participate ineducational activities and
provide emotional support toboth parents and grandchildren
(28:11):
and to really be a socialsupport network for the family.
And, yeah, so primarily justgoing from not just, but from
being an elder in the family tobeing an integral part of the
whole family system.
Liz Hale (28:31):
That is so beautiful, so you have so bringing baby
home.
We have that bringing baby home.
The next one is childbirth.
Tell me the whole title of that.
Childbirth it's just achildbirth preparation Great
Offer online, and then just achildbirth preparation version
Great.
And then there's one for onlineand then the one for
grandparents yeah, and they'reall well.
Joni Parthemer (28:48):
Childbirth is childbirth.
However, we do slip in somebringing baby home research in
there and the grandparentprogram is based around the
research in the bringing babyhome program research in the
Bringing Baby Home programbecause a lot of people take the
Bringing Baby Home workshopeither in person, if it's
available in their area, oronline with us, and then they
(29:10):
want their parents to take thegrandparent class because they
want to make sure there's talkabout that CPR parenting
consistent, predictable,responsive and want their
parents to see what they've beenlearning that they're going to
integrate into their parentingso that there can be some
consistency and understandingthat it's amazing to cover all
(29:31):
those bases.
Dave Schramm (29:31):
Joni, that's very cool yeah, joni, as I think
about our own daughter who'sgoing to be delivering um here
later this summer.
I think you know what is what'sthe best support that we can
give um, her, uh, daughter, aswell as you know, a new
granddaughter.
Are there boundaries?
You know, I get excited and Ihave all the background, you
(29:52):
know, a PhD in family studiesand so I'm going to be so
anxious, oh, don't do this.
Is there a kind of a boundariesthat some of our listeners that
have?
You know, parents andgrandparents who are just really
you just really overeager andwanting to jump in there.
What's kind of the balance ofthat role?
Yeah, wow.
Joni Parthemer (30:10):
You're making me kind of laugh because I'm you.
I needed to edit myself as agrandparent, you know.
I think the number one piece ofadvice, if the core question
there is really how can we bethe best support to our children
(30:31):
as they become parents and nowus as grandparents is to ask
them what support looks like forthat and this kind of brings me
back to that nurse acronym.
If they've done that or donesome type of a postpartum plan,
(30:51):
we can communicate with eachother about where they see us as
grandparents fitting in on thespectrum of that nutrition,
understanding, rest andresources, filling their soul,
exercise, et cetera.
And I think that's a greatplace to start.
Be positive.
I mean, you know, amateur baby,amateur parents, amateur
(31:15):
grandparents right.
When a baby is one day old,we're one day old parents.
When we're pregnant or adoptingparents, that's what we are.
When our children are waddlersor toddlers, we're waddler and
toddler parents.
When they're twins and teens,when they're adults, we're adult
(31:35):
parents.
You know, for those of us whobecome parents, we're going to
be spending the majority of ourlife course parenting, and that
it's going to be parentingthrough different transitional
seasons.
Right, and, and that's whatparenting is, because once
you've got this season down,you've figured it out, guess
what?
They become a wobbler ortoddler and now we're relearning
(31:58):
things all again.
So, just being really beingpositive, um, because there is
such a thing as emotionalcontagion, uh and um, I just, I
just really, more than anything,I think it's being a support,
whatever they see as support, umfor their family mobile.
(32:20):
Because when um I use thismetaphor, a lot, metaphor,
analogy when we partner with aperson and we decide we're going
to have committed relationshipwith them, we bring our piece of
the mobile, they bring theirs,and there's some calibration
that has to happen, right, thewho does what?
The finances the.
(32:40):
This is how I do conflict, doconflict.
You know there's ups and downs,balances, but we kind of figure
it out.
Then we decide to bring a babyhome and kerplunk, there goes
another part of the mobile thatwe've never had to calibrate
before.
So there's this adjustment thatis continually going on through
the different seasons of infant, toddler, toddler, teen, and no
(33:07):
matter you know what the seasonis.
We have to keep calibratingthat mobile.
So ultimately, I guess, as faras support, it's kind of what
your podcast goal is.
You know, to contributecommitment, compassion and
connection to your daughter asshe begins parenting.
Dave Schramm (33:30):
I love it.
That's great, great counsel,great advice.
Thank you, joni.
Joni, it's that time in ourinterview where we'd like to ask
the one particular question inhonor of the name of our podcast
Stronger Marriage Connection.
Joni Parthemer (33:51):
In your mind, your experience and your
research, what is the key to astronger marriage connection?
Key to the stronger marriageconnection?
The word equanimity comes tomind, and I don't mean things
being necessarily equal, butequanimity or balanced, a
feeling of working together as ateam to celebrate the wins as
(34:12):
new parents and to work with thechallenges, the inevitable
challenges of becoming parents.
Remember kind of that mobilethat we're going to try to help
balance things out.
And when one person is way downhere, we're going to have to
see what we can do in therelationship and what roles we
(34:33):
may need to adjust in the familyso that we can balance that out
.
And that gets to thisattunement of the micro moments.
(35:02):
Back is to this attunement ofthe micro moments.
The everyday small interactionsthat add up get stressful and
they will.
To take a beat, to take abreath and consider is what I'm
about to say or ruminate about,or what I'm about to do going to
(35:24):
affect or harm my relationship?
Will it enhance it or will itdetract?
So just take a beat, you know,and a breath and just think
about am I reacting or am Irespectfully being a teammate
with my partner?
And I think very importantlyand Dr Gottman emphasized, when
(35:48):
there's a oops, when there's amistake, when there's a rupture,
make a repair, and there willbe lots of those.
Dave Schramm (35:58):
There will be, yeah.
Liz Hale (36:01):
Great, wow, that's amazing.
I love all these reminders.
Where can our listeners andviewers go to find out more
about you?
These three great workshopsExcuse me, I'm bringing baby
home Childbirth and the workshopfor grandparents, and all the
other great resources you offer,please.
Joni Parthemer (36:21):
Yeah, so my website is JP, so Joby Price b
price, my jp trains andspeakscom and they can read
about all of our offerings andour bringing baby home workshop
and we offer that online.
It's it's really, um, I I missdoing the workshops in person.
Um, we don't do as many ofthose now because of all things,
(36:44):
but one of the really specialthings about offering it online
has been the access it's givenpeople.
We have in a typical Bring inBaby Home workshop, which we run
over three three-hour sessions.
We have people from all overthe world, and so these folks
are from different cultures,different time zones, different
(37:08):
everything, and what they havein common is they want to be the
best parents they can be andthe best partners they can be,
have them join in community andbe a network for each other.
It's really special.
And then the Dottman Institutehas a lot of different resources
.
They have a parenting programnow that's relatively new.
(37:32):
They have different apps andnewsletters for parents and they
have a podcast called SmallThings.
Often, and also anyone cancontact me if they'd like.
I'm Joni J-O-N-I, dot Parthamerat P-A-R-T-H-E-M-E-R at
gmailcom.
Dave Schramm (37:54):
Thanks, joni.
We will actually put all thoseresources and link.
We'll put those in our shownotes for our listeners.
So yeah, listeners, be sure tocheck those out.
Joan, before we let you go,we'd like to ask all of our
guests another question, andthat is your takeaway.
Do you have a takeaway of theday?
Is what we call it here amessage you hope our listeners
(38:15):
will remember from ourdiscussion today?
Joni Parthemer (38:18):
Yeah, I think I would just say that the little
fishies are only as healthy asthe ecosystem of the family fish
tank.
So the greatest gift anotherway of saying that is the
greatest gift we can give ourchildren is a healthy
relationship between the two ofus, Whatever the status of our
(38:43):
marriage or our connection wehave, yeah, whether parents are
still together or divorced orwhatever, you're still their
parents and you're stillmodeling a relationship to your
children and that's going to bethe basis for how they develop
their relationships ongoingthroughout their lives.
(39:05):
So, really being attuned tothat family fish tank and is it
easy, breezy, or is it icky,sticky kind of type of thing and
again I'll come back to thatsecret sauce of relationships
Maintain and strengthenfriendship, regulate conflict
and create shared meaning andrituals of connection together.
(39:26):
That is what sustainssatisfying partner-to-partner
and parent-child relationships.
Dave Schramm (39:34):
Fantastic, all kinds of great nuggets here.
What about you?
What's your takeaway?
Liz Hale (39:39):
Yeah, I took copious notes, dave, let's see.
So I love the CPR of parentingand I wonder if that could be
CPR in many relationships.
Actually, joni and Dave, theconsistency, the predictability
and the responsiveness I thinkthat's just beautiful, for even
marriage or friendship.
So I love the CPR.
(40:00):
I really do, dave.
What about you?
What would you say is thegolden nugget from our time
today with educator JoniParthomer?
Dave Schramm (40:07):
Yeah, you're kind of stepping back and taking the
big picture, Liz and Joni.
What's really stood out for meis the importance of education.
We have so many great resourcestoday, opportunities to learn
if we want to be the very bestthat we can be as a partner, as
a parent, as a person.
There's so much that we canreach out, so I hope our
(40:28):
listeners will take advantage ofthat.
To go to it was JP Trains andSpeaks.
Is that right?
Did I get that?
Liz Hale (40:33):
right.
Dave Schramm (40:33):
Yes, go to the website and here at the Utah
Marriage Commission, go tostrongermarriageorg or Healthy
Relationships, utah.
We're in right.
The reach of this.
Our podcast goes all 50 Statesand 80 countries and so,
wherever you are, you canactually jump on one of Joni's
trainings virtually, as shementioned, all over the world.
(40:54):
So I hope that you'll takeadvantage of so many
opportunities to to improvethrough through education.
Well, joni, it has been such ajoy for us to have you, and Liz
and I have taken all kinds of ofof notes and I'm sure our
listeners will as well.
We just want to express ourappreciation once again.
(41:16):
Joni, thanks for coming ontoday.
Joni Parthemer (41:18):
Thank you, and thank you for what you do for
families.
Dave Schramm (41:21):
Thank you.
Well, that's it for us.
Our friends, that does it forus.
We will see you again next time.
Another episode of StrongerMarriage Connection.
Liz Hale (41:30):
And remember it's the small and simple things that
create a stronger marriageconnection.
Dave Schramm (41:38):
Thanks for joining us today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show.
Be sure to smash the likebutton, leave a comment and
share this episode with a friend.
You can also follow andinteract with us on Instagram at
(41:59):
Stronger Marriage Life, andFacebook at Stronger Marriage,
so be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow.
Next, if you want even moreresources to improve your
marriage or relationshipconnection, visit
StrongerMarriageorg, whereyou'll find free workshops,
e-courses, in-depth webinars,relationship surveys and more.
(42:20):
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
(42:43):
of the Utah Marriage Commission.
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