Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
On today's episode.
Dr Liz and I welcome to theshow Julie Blackburn from all
the way down under in Australia.
Having a baby can create stressindividually and struggles as a
couple.
Julie shares practical tips andstrategies, from keeping the
friendship strong throughpatience, gratitude and kindness
, to avoiding criticism andletting dads be involved as
equal partners.
(00:24):
Julie Blackburn is a registerednurse, midwife, educator and
company director.
Julie is passionate about workthat supports couples achieve
healthy relationships andhealthy family environments.
Driven by a goal to ensure thatchildren are raised in safe and
healthy homes to support theprevention of family violence,
she was among the first bringingbaby home educators, trained in
(00:47):
Australia in 2008 and became aBBH specialist trainer in 2012,
supporting the training ofothers in Australia and the
Asia-Pacific region since then.
When not working, she can befound hanging with her three
adult children and her partnerplanning the next road trip.
Julie aims to be relatable,authentic and kind, and values
(01:07):
connecting with people from allwalks of life.
We hope you enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Welcome to Stronger
Marriage Connection.
I'm psychologist, Dr Liz Hale,along with the beloved professor
Dr Dave Schramm.
Together, we have dedicated ourlife's work to bringing you the
best we have in valid maritalresearch, with a few tips and
tools to help you create themarriage of your dreams.
All right, it's a brand newbeginning when partners become
(01:39):
parents.
For most couples, it really isa time of hope, anticipation and
excitement.
And, Dave, your family's a timeof hope, anticipation and
excitement.
And, Dave, your family'sgetting ready to welcome a
beautiful, brand new grandbabythis summer.
Well, according to Dr JohnGottman's long-term study on
newlyweds, 67% of couples becomevery unhappy with each other.
During the first three years oftheir baby's life, Only 33%
(02:07):
remained content.
That's really quite a largenumber, isn't it?
That is and the biggest concernis that that has a huge impact
on baby's emotional development.
While the masters of thistransition to parenthood, they
navigated the stressor.
Somehow they found ways to dealwith the normal challenges of
new parenthood.
While the unhappy disastercouples which is the majority of
(02:27):
all of us they could not findtheir way.
They stayed overwhelmed.
Our guest today, who, inaddition to specializing in
nursing and midwifery, hasadvanced training in helping
partners thrive throughpregnancy and childbirth,
bringing 30 years of hercombined experience to our
conversation today.
Jilly Blackburn, you are justthe professional we need to talk
(02:49):
to.
Welcome to Struggler MarriageConnection, Thank you.
I was struck by an interview DrJohn Gottman gave about this
very topic and I know you'rewell aware of it.
He said that if we can changethe behaviors of these new
unhappy parents, we can changetheir babies, their temperament,
neurological development andlanguage and cognition to the
(03:12):
point where these babies arelaughing and smiling more and
crying and fussing less.
What a specialty you have as atrainer for the program Bringing
Baby Home, Julie.
Share with us your passion forthis program and why you think
an evidence-based program likethis is important for all new
parents.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Oh, thanks, liz.
Look, it's great to be here.
I love BBH.
You know, pregnancy it changesus.
It changes our roles, ourdreams, our goals.
With individuals, we change ashumans and we end up having all
these new titles andresponsibilities.
Yet how does any of us know howto be a partner?
(03:52):
You know, we're all giftedamateurs, really.
We come in equipped to thisparenting gig with knowledge and
experience based on our ownchildhood, really, or what we
see and read, and and what ishappening around us, and and
then we try to apply thisexperience with another human
who has the same experience asus, which is not much so.
(04:16):
So it's great to be able tothen have a program that, um,
it's not just about the birthand the belly and the boobs, you
know, I don't know if you cansay that.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Sorry, that's great.
That is funny Triple mini.
I love it so.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
I'll rewind that.
Yeah, I love it.
So regular antenatal classes,pre-birth classes they often get
criticized about you knowwhether they really do anything.
You know they give us thatconnection to other people.
But what else do we get beyondwhat we already see and can read
on the internet?
So bringing baby home gives usthis opportunity where we can
(04:57):
really understand what's goingto happen when this baby comes
home.
So I love it.
I love it that it includes bothpeople, so both mum and dad is
included in this program equally, and we really get to
understand the importance ofboth roles of mum and dad.
You know you get opportunity toreflect on your own stuff how
(05:19):
you were parented, what it meansto be a parent and how do you
create this home environment forthis little human that you're
going to be raising.
So I just love it.
And it's got a science backingto it as well.
So, as a healthcareprofessional, having an evidence
base to anything that I do isreally important.
(05:39):
So it's great to know that youcan give people some real tools
that they can put into a placeand apply in their home
environment.
They can connect with the baby,they can stay connected with
each other and they can use morebroadly as well and make some
really satisfying relationships.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
It shows that you
love it, julie.
I mean, and you make such agood point, we don't know how to
be partners, let alone parents.
Right, talk about an overwhelm.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, that's right,
that's right.
So you know in this happy babythat we're trying to seek if we
can create that happy home spaceto raise that baby in.
Well, you know there's healthychildren and then healthy
societies are going to be moreprevalent.
In where you know there'shealthy children and then
healthy societies are going tobe more prevalent.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Oh, yeah, for sure I
love the research base.
As a family scholar here at USU, I love looking and knowing
that for the research based thatbacked information that's so
important.
I know as new parents manyyears ago I sure wish that there
was this type of information,because it is.
It can be stressful andoverwhelming, and the lack of
sleep and I was in graduateschool, my wife.
(06:51):
It was a really tough time andI know, according to Dr Gottman,
that first year following ababy's arrival, I mean the
frequency, the intensity of therelationship conflicts increased
significantly for most couples.
As with any life transition,right changes, they're
inevitable and it's natural todisagree with your partner on
issues around parenting andfinances, and there's all the
(07:14):
household chores and maritalexpectations.
But as overwhelming as thissounds, you're here to reassure
us that it's possible to reachsolutions that everyone can be
happy with.
Is that right, Julie?
In fact, let's start withdifferences in parenting styles.
That seems to be an especiallygrowing concern in marriage.
What's your advice on howdifferent partners view
(07:37):
parenting?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know this is thechallenge that we have becoming
parents because we have all ofthese ideas and views that you
know.
This is the challenge that wehave becoming parents because we
have all of these ideas andviews that you know we haven't
really discussed as a couple.
You know that it doesn't enterthe sentences that we have and
the conversations that we havewith each other.
So we all have our own way ofdoing things, based on how we
(08:01):
were raised, what we'veexperienced, what we see, what
we know, what we aspire to be.
You know, whether good, bad orugly, the way we're raised sits
right within us and comes outwithout us realizing if we don't
have that conscious awarenessabout what it is that really
(08:24):
motivates us and what our stuffis.
So you know the secret sauce toa healthy relationship we need
three ingredients and we need toreally think about how we can
maintain our friendship, how weregulate our conflict and how we
create these environments andopportunities for shared meaning
and how we can have regularconnections and rituals and
(08:50):
sharing of values.
So the ability to accept theinfluence of our partner, that
our partner will have differentideas to us, is really important
with this parenting environmentand knowing our partner and
knowing what they want as wellas what you want.
And where do we get that sweetspot in the middle?
So the Gottmans will say weneed to yield to win.
(09:13):
So sometimes we've got to giveup our stuff to get a really
good outcome and get thatenvironment or that happiness
that we're reaching for.
So, putting all the tools andhaving a bit of a structured
environment to work out how todo things and how to connect so
we have a cooperative parentingenvironment rather than a
(09:36):
competitive one, and that'sgoing to be the important
ingredient in this space.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Do you find that
clearly right?
Partners think that they maywant to do it the way their
parents did it, or drasticallydifferent from their parents.
I just think about the starkdifferences of a man and a woman
, let alone a mother and afather.
Right, we offer different,bring different traits, talents,
abilities to the table.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Yeah for sure.
Like there's so much pressurethat we have when we become a
parent, like it's not just as awoman, it's the physiological
changes that occur withparenting.
But having a baby has thisphilosophical shift.
The way we view the worldstarts to change and all of
(10:23):
those challenges of thistransition to parenting space
that is compounded bysleeplessness, the role changes
that we have, the involvement ofextended family or the lack of
involvement, you know, eithercan be good or bad.
We change our jobs and ourresponsibilities.
We have the added worries offinances and employment, body
(10:48):
image changes.
There's so much stuff in thisspace and, like I said, this
default setting is the way ourmom did it or the way our dad
did it.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yes, right, right,
and so, just speaking,
continuing with thosedifferences.
Once the baby arrives, it seemslike mom's family and friends
especially flock to the scene tohelp.
Is that right, julie?
But according to the research,new dads can often feel excluded
.
And you might even start towithdraw from the baby and the
mom.
Maybe they're working more oryou know.
(11:21):
Just try to avoid conflict.
What instruction in this arenado you give your soon-to-be
parents?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
yeah, yeah, thanks,
please.
Yeah, this is a problem.
You know we have this greatculture that women really
support women having babies andand kind of.
You know, really make sure thatwe nurture her well.
But this can be the very thingthat alienates men, and men who
(11:48):
don't feel like they're involvedor have a role with this baby
will naturally retreat back.
You know, women can oftenbehave like the gatekeeper of
the baby.
You know, like I'm pregnant, Iknow what's best for this baby
and we can really push dads away.
I know what's best for thisbaby and we can really push dads
away, which is not helpful orhealthy to our relationship or
(12:09):
the relationship that the babywill have with their father as
well.
So you know we need to check inon the dads.
We need to, and this is what wedo when the baby comes.
You know mums are often at homewith the babies, you know, in
those early days and they can beall alone with the baby.
And then when dads come home,you know we check on them.
(12:32):
We make sure they're doing itright, you know doing it
properly.
Are they changing the nappy orthe diaper properly?
Are they wrapping the babyproperly?
Are they bathing the baby.
You know, like everything'swatched and critiqued and who
wants to be criticized all thetime.
(12:53):
You know I remember my Navyhusband criticized the way I
owned his uniform when we firstgot married.
So what happened?
I never, ever, owned hisuniform again.
You know that was something Iwas not going to learn.
So you know we need to let thedads do things as well.
You know they're not going toharm the baby.
(13:15):
They just might do it different.
So, and that way dads will stayinvolved.
You know we don't want to referto them as babysitters.
That way dads will stayinvolved.
You know we don't want to referto them as babysitters.
You often hear dads saying theycan't meet up with their
friends because they'rebabysitting their kids.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
You know, like
newsflash it's your own kid, or
we will do that as women.
Let me see if my husband canbabysit, right, I mean, which is
an area of opportunity for allof us.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
Yeah, yeah, that's
right.
Yeah, no, it's your own kid.
It's called parenting.
We're both, that's right.
And if we want to feel like aparent, then we really need to
be involved in the decisions ofthat child.
So you know, and there's noevidence out there that says
moms can do this stuff betterthan dads.
So you know, the only thing themom can do is dad can't do is
(14:06):
breastfeed and give birth.
So, we do need dads to beinvolved.
There's plenty of research whythat's important.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, amen.
I love this.
I love the wisdom here, julie,for dads and involvement.
I know, at least here in the US, that I've seen personally more
dads getting paternity leaveand that there's more there
supporting the dads.
And, yes, I love the lesscriticism, you know.
Counsel to the mothers or thewives it's interesting from the
(14:39):
research, julie, that when momis unhappy, her baby doesn't
retreat.
Julie, that when mom is unhappyher baby doesn't retreat, but
when dad is unhappy, especiallyin his relationship with mom, a
tragic gulf grows between himand his child.
So what's the advice you givecouples to protect themselves
from this tragedy?
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah, yeah, it's
really interesting that
phenomena, isn't it?
You know, I think prevention isalways better than a cure.
You know we don't want thesebabies to miss out on their dads
.
As I said earlier, there's noevidence to suggest that a mum
can parent better than a dad.
But there's plenty of researchthat shows us that the role dads
(15:19):
play in growth and development,and particularly the engagement
that they have with the babythrough play, is vital to
healthy development.
You know positive involvement ofthe dad is going to have an
impact on the child'stemperament, self-regulation,
self-esteem, confidence.
(15:40):
You know we want theseconfident, happy children.
But they get this from theenvironment that they're raised
in.
You know some of it'spersonality, but we also shape
their personality in those earlyyears of life.
So children with involvedfathers, they have better, more
friends when they go to school.
(16:00):
They do better at schoolacademically.
Their future relationships andand behaviors are there.
So we need to prevent that chasmand the distance occurring,
because someone who is feelingcriticized will retreat.
We see that relationshipdissatisfaction means people
(16:21):
withdraw from each other andthey're not looking for that
connection.
Action means people withdrawfrom each other and they're not
looking for that connection, sothey're moving away, so babies
miss out as well.
Now, you know this space ishard.
Someone's got to work.
Hey, you know we're stillneeding to pay for the bills and
the mortgage and the rent.
But you know we need to makesure we've got those healthy
(16:42):
moments of connection when we'rearound and that involvement can
be there as well.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
I imagine that
partners can do enough to
complement each other on theirparenting right.
I mean, I can only imagine thatit feels there's got to be a
sense of insecurity.
As a woman, I'm thinking.
I imagine I have not hadchildren, julie, what I imagine.
You probably have this beliefthat I should know how to do
this right.
This baby earned my belly.
(17:13):
If that's how this baby came,or through adoption, we feel
like I'm just I'm the maternalone here.
I should know how to do thisand talk about a lot of pressure
.
So I would imagine partnersreally need that great um, what
um support from their otherthat's right.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Like you know, as a
partner in this space, like we
need to be the coach, we need tobe the cheerleader, we need to
be the teammate.
You know we've got to flickthrough all three of those roles
because you know, like how, doyou know how to be a parent?
You just hope you're doing itright.
You know, gifted, amateur, am Idoing this right?
(17:53):
I have three children.
Now that you know, I feel likeI might have done okay.
They look like you know, reallynice humans, but there was a
while there where I wasn't sureif that was going to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Understandable.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, so it's tough.
So we need to just really standby each other and you know, so
we need to just really stand byeach other and, you know, keep
encouragement.
Hey, you're doing good here.
I really like how you can staycalm.
I love how you can keep goingto work even though you're
really tired.
I love how you can hold ittogether when the baby's crying
(18:30):
all the time.
You know we really need toapplaud that stuff.
We can focus on the baby and go, yay, the baby clapped today,
the baby rolled over, you know,and these are really cool
achievements.
But you know, what's reallycool is turning up all the time
and holding your stuff and notbeing angry, and staying calm
(18:52):
and happy and positive.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
We'll be right back
after this brief message.
And we're back, let's diveright in.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
The power of a
partner.
I mean, I have been a marriagetherapist for a long time now
and I'm still amazed at thepower that we have, for better
or for worse, as partners.
Yeah, you know, it'sinteresting.
Julie and Dave, I think this isthe first time we've
spotlighted Drs John and JulieGottman's book and Baby Makes
Three.
We love it, we support it, butI think it's the first time
we're talking about it.
So thank you for that, julie.
(19:35):
They continue to acknowledgethat the greatest gift you can
give your baby, of course, is ahappy and strong relationship
between the two of you.
What are some of your favoritetips for these new parents?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
I love that quote.
I just use it all the time inmy work and that's whether I'm
working with new parents orwhether I'm working with, you
(20:10):
know, my students advocating forsupports for military, because
you know, the greatest gift wecan have is just that healthy
environment.
We know that when we're aroundanyone who is just nitpicking
each other and cranky at eachother, we're always going to
feel uncomfortable.
I also like to remind peoplethat that relationship between
parent to parent and the parentto child is really important to
understand.
What happens to the child willimpact the parents individually
(20:33):
and collectively, will impactthe parents individually and
collectively.
Even more significant iswhatever happens to parents will
have a lasting impact on achild.
You know these are things thatwe don't go over and we don't
get over.
We can always think about anevent that may have occurred to
our parents kind of lives withinus all the time.
(20:55):
So, to paraphrase John Gottman,he also says just as a tree is
affected by the quality of theair and the water and the soil
and the environment, theemotional health of the child is
determined as well by theintimate relationships around
them.
So that emotional ecology thatwe create for our children is
(21:18):
going to have a lasting impacton the child.
So I think it's reallyimportant that we understand
that interrelationship that weall have on each other and how
that will have a lasting impacton all of our health and
wellbeing.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, man, that sure
does that.
Environment is so critical,Julie, as part of the free
Gottman card deck app that weall have access, to tell us
about the last section of cardsunder the heading bringing baby
home.
How do you suggest couples usethis deck and what are your
favorite topics or questions forcouples to discuss?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
favorite topics or
questions for couples to discuss
.
Yeah, these questions aresimilar to the other card decks,
but it really gets specific toparenting.
So it's easy to just racearound in life and, before we
know it, all we talk about isour day at work.
So these cards give us anopportunity to just be really
mindful about what we talk aboutand, as well as checking in
with ourself and our partners um, you know, so it's a series of
(22:21):
questions.
Love maps is something that theGottmans speak about all the
time.
So you know, do you rememberwhat your partner's favorite
guitar is?
If I think about priorconversations, you know to to
then have a good chat about whyyou like these things or music
that you like, and maybe thiscan then lead into an
(22:44):
opportunity for a date night.
You know, remember when we wentand saw that band?
That was so cool.
God, I love that.
Let's try and find a babysitterand let's create an opportunity
to go out again.
So it's really important to keephaving those moments and these
cards can help us do that.
(23:05):
It can also help us to expressneeds.
We often think that our partnermight know the need that we
have.
You know, he never takes me outanywhere, he never helps with
cooking dinner I'm the one thatalways cooks dinner or he never
does anything around the house.
Yeah, we don't actually askthese in a really clear way.
(23:29):
We often ask our or express ourneeds in a way that is quite
critical.
So you know, these cards canreally help do that as well.
So help raise something in amore gentle way that is going to
the need will be heard ratherthan the criticism.
(23:50):
So I really like that.
The baby can take all of ourfocus away.
It just allows us to focus oneach other and ourselves and
remind ourselves why we'retogether and why we like each
other yeah, ah, great, greatresource yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
One of the questions
I came across recently.
I was talking about this deckwith a couple in my office and I
love the, the one of.
I think it might've been maybefrom I don't know.
It seemed like it was gearedmore to husbands.
But what would you like to dofor the baby's care?
Right?
Would you like to be involvedin the feeding, the bathing, the
tucking in or getting up in themiddle of the night?
(24:29):
Just thought it was great,automatically, just assuming
we're in this together.
And what role do you want toplay?
What would you love to do?
What do you feel insecure doing?
Right?
What worries you?
Anyway, I just think it'sbrilliant, julie.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Yeah, those cards are
really good, you know, and what
are you needing right now?
Or there's ones about, you know, feelings, so I feel lonely or
I miss you, I would like to goout to dinner with you, so
things like that.
Because the way we raise things, we could say you never take me
(25:09):
anywhere, when really whatyou're wanting is just to hang
out and have dinner with yourpartner, with your husband.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It comes across
totally different.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Right, you're apt to
get what you want the the latter
way.
Oh yeah, that's right.
So so it's props for that.
And going back to what we spokeabout with criticism before,
you know, it's a good way to tothen focus on things so we're
not nitpicking our partner.
You know, maybe we don't needto worry about whether the
toilet seat was left up.
(25:44):
You know we can use otherissues that are going to be more
important.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yeah, that's right,
yep, awesome, julie.
You also have some additionalinterest in family violence
prevention, especially when itcomes to managing conflict,
self-regulation and feelings ofoverwhelm.
What impact does familyviolence have on children?
I mean, we can only imagine.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, you know, most
babies will suffer when there is
relationship conflict betweenparents, you know, and a healthy
dose of conflict is necessaryin all relationships, but it's
how we raise an issue and how wedebate a point, as opposed to
what sometimes.
So the Gottman studies alsoshowed us that.
(26:33):
You know, just in normalconflict, parental irritability,
hostility, fighting leads topoor parent-child interaction
which can create this unhealthyenvironment for the children.
You know, blood pressures inbabies are higher when they are
around parents who are fighting.
So if we think about theenvironment of having a new baby
(27:00):
and all that extra stresses,conflict raises eight times and
sadly, we see the incidence ofviolence occurring for the first
time in pregnancy andrelationships.
And those feelings of floodingand overwhelm and losing
self-control can often be aprecursor to that as well.
So I love this program becauseit gets you to think about what
(27:22):
happens to you when you getflooded, what happens to you
when you're angry, and reallyhow to self-soothe and check in
on yourself.
We know that parents who are ina high-conflict environment are
going to have higher riskfactors for depression and poor
(27:42):
health, and a parent who hasdepression or poor health is
going to be less engaged andresponsive to a baby as well.
So all of these factors willflow on to the growth and
development of the baby.
You know, if you're not feelinghappy about something, your
facial expressions are kind ofdevoid of emotion, they're just
(28:04):
flat.
So the baby is not going tothrive with those happy faces,
those mock surprises, faces thatthey really like to see as well
.
So you know.
So I love this program that itjust helps us stay that
awareness of the impact ofconflict and when conflict can
(28:28):
lead to a domestic violencesituation, prevention is the
cure.
We have such a big problem withfamily violence and I think
having a program that makes usreally pause and think about
what is my role here and whatenvironment do I want to raise
and what can I do different toensure health.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Julie, you have
another area of interest, both
personally and professionallythis experience with military
families, which we have suchhigh regard for.
But, to be honest, we don't seethe effects of military service
that it has on families right,and specifically on children.
Can you give us the insidescoop on these amazing families
(29:13):
and how they can buffer thechallenges that come from
military lifestyle?
Speaker 3 (29:18):
yeah sure, um, you
know, defense families, military
families we have everydaypeople trying to maintain
friendships, relationships,raise children in in a working
environment that is just uniquein job description and
requirements.
So it's a way of life regularmoves, time spent away from home
(29:39):
, as families are often livingremote from extended families,
the effects of deployment andall of these challenges, just
kind of pound you know we'llhave.
One member will be away in theenvironment of weaponry or
humanitarian aid.
They're out in the middle of anocean and they're coming home
(30:03):
then and now need to be landinginto pregnancy or child rearing,
which is really distant fromwhat they're normally doing.
And it's also a challenge wheneverybody is away from each
other as well.
So maintaining connection whenwe're seeing each other every
day someone's walking in thedoor, you're saying hi, these
(30:25):
situations we really quicklylose sight of each other.
We just started talking aboutthe weather or we talk about
work.
So let's do this now whenthere's six months distance and
we're just relying on email orsocial media to catch up with
each other every now and again.
So programs like BBH is reallyimportant for that.
(30:49):
You know, we've got to maintainthose friendships and really be
skilled in what is it thatcreates a good friendship?
How do we do this?
Uh, and and then follow thebouncing ball, if you will, of
what the masters do, who arereally good at relationships.
You know, we, we create lovemaps, we check in with each
(31:10):
other, we keep positive bankaccounts of emotions, we show
fondness and admiration, weshare what's worrying us.
You know, these ingredients areimportant.
So for military families,having these tools is so
important because we, how do youshare?
You know, a day at home andyour drama with the.
(31:32):
You know the washing machineblew up.
You know, and they're home, andyour drama with the.
You know the washing machineblew up.
You know, and they're on theother side of the world.
What are they going to do aboutit?
But we need to still sharethese moments as well.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Yeah, I love that it
takes this extra intentionality
right, this purposeful, okay,connection, and we have to be
very intentional about keepingthat connection uh strong,
because you can naturally Iwould assume you can naturally,
um, drift apart or just easilydrift apart if you don't do
anything, we just kind of driftapart.
(32:03):
And so, with military familiesespecially, it seems like there
has to be this intentionality ofcreating and doing, uh keeping
that connection strong.
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (32:13):
Yeah, you know, I was
married to someone in the Navy
and you know long periods apartand you know, particularly when
children come, you really youhave single parenting there as
well.
But you try to maintain andsustain this relationship with
someone who is doing somethingcompletely different to what
(32:34):
you're doing and really has noconcept of what's happening at
home, as much as I don't reallyhave any concept of what's
happening on a warship.
So you know it's.
How do you keep this alltogether and how do you keep
children engaged with theirparents, knowing that the role
of a father is really importantin development of children?
(32:56):
So how do you get thatnurturing softness that's needed
and that active engagement withthe family is really important
as a couple and also for thefamily and the children as well?
So to have some structure andhave some tools in place to help
support these families, becausewhat we do know is military
(33:16):
life will have a negative impacton children, like it can have a
negative impact on everybody.
But if the environment's notgood, children from military
families are going to be moreaffected than those that don't.
And for all of those reasonshigh conflict environments, lack
of engagement, lack ofcoordinated parenting we may
(33:38):
have someone that's tooauthoritarian, someone that's
too critical.
So all of these toxicingredients that can enter the
family environment, that areharmful to raising children and
health and well-being.
So we need to think about that.
What can we do different?
(33:58):
How can we really support theseenvironments and this necessary
service that we need fornational security, yet make sure
we're raising healthygenerations of military families
as well?
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Is the military
providing that structure?
Seems like I hear aboutprograms now and then, julie,
are we doing a pretty?
Speaker 3 (34:23):
good job for our
families or is more needed?
Yeah well, I'm not sure aboutthe US.
I did visit there a few yearsago and I popped into some of
the military bases and there youknow there's a lot of problems
there, but you know such amassive problem that I think you
have as well.
There's a lot of military andsuch diverse socioeconomic and
(34:45):
demographics.
So partner employment's anotherthing too.
You know we really a challengeof having a baby is that loss of
identity that we have.
So you know, as a new mum,changing a job, or that loss of
a job that you really love andyou're now at home, you know it
might not fit for you and it'shard to get that value, and we
(35:08):
can complicate this as well,depending on what our partner
employment choice is, and we canlose sight of our own career
goals and career directions, andso these things are also
important.
That's your third ingredient ofthose rituals and shared goals
that we need to have when a babycomes, because otherwise we can
(35:30):
end up as a mom feeling quitelost.
And you know I've given up allthis time from work while
partners kicked all their goalsand, you know, got to the top of
their career.
What am I doing now so we wantto avoid those situations which
can create bitterness andresentment in a home?
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Wow, it's been
powerful, Julie.
Hey, before we let you go, wehave a couple of questions we
like to ask all of our listenersin honor of the name of our
podcast Stronger MarriageConnection.
From your personal andprofessional experience, what
would you say is a key to astronger marriage connection?
Speaker 3 (36:10):
I think the key is
always friendship and kindness.
That's going to be thefoundation.
We need to remain each other'sbest friend.
We need to hold space for eachother.
We need to splash that fondnessand admiration around.
We've got to keep the emotionalbank account full and that's
going to help us sustain througha positive perspective and any
(36:35):
sort of negative challenges thatcome up.
We don't want to be robbing thebank, so keep telling our
partner how handsome they areand how fabulous they are and
how grateful we are that we havethem.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Love that answer.
Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I'm here too, boy,
and I'm just struck by saying,
yeah and boy, how easy that isto let that go by the wayside.
I'm such a fan of it.
It's like when did I tell Ben Ithought he was so handsome
Might have been yesterday, Ithought it was yesterday at
church Ben you're hot.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
Liz thinks you're hot
, ben yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I don't do that
nearly often enough, so I love
that.
Okay, julie, wonderful.
Well, where can our listenersgo to find out more about you
and the resources you provideand the course that you offer?
We want to know everything.
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Do you know?
Look, sadly my website'soffline at the moment, but I
want listeners to know about thegotman institute there and and,
uh, you know they're bringingbaby home.
Programs are available.
Um, there's also, uh, jonipathema, so she's there.
She's got contact details so Ican be found through joni, which
(37:47):
will be on the god, okay we'lladd joni's name again.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
She's already on our
resource list.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
We'll add that to our
show.
Or.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Facebook, yes,
facebook.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, yeah, I'm told
that's where all people hang out
.
I keep telling you that, buthey, I'm so last century, so
you'll find me on Facebook.
Speaker 2 (38:06):
Yeah, that's great.
We'll add that to the shownotes, Julie.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah and Julie.
One more question for you.
We call it our takeaway of theday here on the show.
Is there a message that youwant our listeners to remember
from our discussion today?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, healthy
relationships, whether they're
intimate, whether they'replatonic, whether they're
work-related, they don't justhappen, so they come from a
series of consistent, uh effortsand actions that we put in
place.
So we're all gifted amateurswhen it comes to this parenting
(38:41):
gig and you know we, we reallyneed to just work together on
that.
So number one take home is justalways be kind, be kind to
yourself and be kind to eachother.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, Love that.
Thanks, Julie Liz.
What about you?
What's your takeaway today?
Speaker 2 (38:58):
I loved it when Julie
said about that yield, yield to
win.
I think that's just sobeautiful.
I think about peacekeeping.
We have a colleague who talksquite a bit about peacekeeping.
He's now at Utah State JulieChadford, and I've been reading
a lot of his work lately, sitson the top of my head.
He tells a story about aprofessor giving him feedback on
(39:19):
this conflict and he said Chad,I don't know that I could
really give you much feedback,but what I can say is I learned
in my life that I can either beright or I can have peace.
And I think that's exactly whatyou're saying, julie.
Dave, what about the goldnugget you're taking away from
our time together with familyhealth, parenting expert and
trainer, julie Blackburn?
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Yeah, this has been
so helpful, julie.
I've had a daughter that wasjust married.
I've got a daughter who'shaving a baby, so this is very
at the forefront of my mind.
I love everything you've talkedabout.
I especially love what stoodout to me.
It was the counsel related tocriticism for wives, husbands
and it can be oftenunintentional oh the baby's
(40:06):
fussy, let me take the baby, orthat's not how you hold it, or
be sure to do this, it's almostmothering the husband, which is
not helpful.
So there can be loud criticism,there can be almost silent
criticism or an eye roll orthings like that.
So I, my message, I think forfor women, especially new
mothers, is yeah, let yourhusband be a father, let him be
involved, let him do.
Yes, well, it was dirty workagain, having the conversations
(40:27):
of dirty diapers and changing orgetting up or feeding or
whatever it is.
But yeah, the criticism canreally make him pull back and
just almost feel like thirdwheel while you or your mom kind
of consists or kind of takecharge, and he may feel kind of
this feeling left out.
So so be sure to keep thatconnection again, that
intentionality, that kindness,that friendship, those date
(40:49):
nights, all those things strong,so he doesn't feel like he's,
he's third wheel, yeah, whenbaby comes along.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
So yeah, that's so
true, you nailed it, dave.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Julie, this has been
so very helpful.
My friend, thanks for joiningus from down under, from
Australia.
This has been so very helpful.
So thank you.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
My pleasure.
It's been great chatting withyou.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
All right, friends.
Well, that does it for us.
We will see you next time onanother episode of the Stronger
Marriage Connection podcast.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
That's right, and
remember it's the small and
simple things that create astronger marriage connection.
Take great care now.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
Thanks for joining us
today.
Hey, do us a favor and take asecond to subscribe to our
podcast and the Utah MarriageCommission YouTube channel at
Utah Marriage Commission, whereyou can watch this and every
episode of the show on Instagramat Stronger Marriage Life and
(41:55):
Facebook at Stronger Marriage.
So be sure to share with uswhich topics you loved or which
guests we should have on theshow next.
If you want even more resourcesto improve your marriage or
relationship connection, visitStrongerMarriageorg, where
you'll find free workshops,e-courses, in-depth webinars,
relationship surveys and more.
Each episode of StrongerMarriage Connection is hosted
and sponsored by the UtahMarriage Commission at Utah
(42:17):
State University.
And finally, a big thanks toour producer, rex Polanis, and
the team at Utah StateUniversity and you, our audience
.
You make this show possible.
The opinions, findings,conclusions and recommendations
expressed in this podcast do notnecessarily reflect the views
of the Utah Marriage Commission.