October 22, 2025 • 31 mins
Lizzie Eastham and Sam Rickard present Studio 1 - Vision Australia Radio’s weekly look at life from a low vision and blind point of view.
On this week’s show
“If it seems to good to be true...”
Sam talks to Jayde Richmond from the National Anti-Scam Centre.
During the conversation they talk about who can fall victim to scams (Hint: basically anyone) and the people and groups that run these scams.
They also look at how to spot a scam, and what to do about it.
Studio 1 welcomes any input from our listeners. If you have any experience or thoughts about issues covered in this episode or believe there is something we should be talking about.
You may also be interested in joining our choir of angels and telling your story.
EMAIL: studio1@visionaustralia.org or leave comment on the station’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/VARadioNetwork
A special thank you to Jayde; Elika and Fiona from the National Anti-Scam Centre; and to Jason Gipps for all his legwork.
To learn more about the subjects covered in in this episode go to: https://www.scamwatch.gov.au/
This program was made possible with support from the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at https://cbf.org.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:13):
This is Studio One with Sam Rickard and Lizzie Eastham
on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:21):
So, Lizzie, I came across this great deal from one
of the big streamers on Facebook.
S3 (00:27):
Mhm. Yep.
S2 (00:28):
And well, I've been hearing a lot about these, uh,
scams that if you, you know, they'll impersonate a advertiser
or whatever. So I actually got out of Facebook and
looked them up on their web page. And yes, it
was true this deal was still going through. So I've
signed up and I'm going to get an awful lot
(00:49):
of great shows that I really, really love. Yep. And
it's only costing me $150 in iTunes cards.
S4 (00:54):
Oh, gosh.
S2 (01:00):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S4 (01:01):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (01:02):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S4 (01:08):
This week. Have you ever had any experience with scammers?
S2 (01:11):
We catch up with Jade Richmond, the general manager of
the National Anti-scam Centre.
S4 (01:15):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (01:31):
You can contact us via email at studio One at org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia. Org.
S4 (01:38):
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our
Facebook page by going to facebook.com slash radio network.
S2 (01:47):
De Jade.
S5 (01:48):
Hey, how you doing? I will apologize.
S2 (01:50):
You may not know, but I got your name wrong
when I was promoting last week's episode, so apologies in
advance for that one. Anyway, you're from Scamwatch. Um, so
maybe you can describe sort of what your job is
and what the organisation you work for does.
S5 (02:07):
Yeah, absolutely. So my, um, my role is the general
manager of the National Anti-scam Centre and the National Anti-scam Centre,
sits within the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. So basically
we've been set up to coordinate national and multi-sector efforts
to stop scams. Scamwatch is really the public facing side
(02:27):
of the National Anti-scam Centre, and Scamwatch provides a website
and a service for people to report scams to obtain
information about how they can protect themselves from scams, and
a whole lot of resources that can assist them in
terms of understanding how scams work and how they can
avoid them. And it also provides some statistical data and
things like that on the website.
S2 (02:47):
Now, before we went to air, we were sort of
talking about how things have actually changed a little bit.
I mean, I'm old enough to remember when the internet
was first brought in, and pretty much as soon as
we were getting emails, we were getting scam emails. And
I don't know, for anyone who was sort of practice
at it, you could sort of see what they were.
It was kind of like, I can't believe people are
(03:08):
actually falling for these things. And yet, of course, people were.
I mean, what's the philosophy behind. I mean, we're still
even getting obvious ones. Now, what's the philosophy behind sending
out things that clearly not even an idiot would fall for?
S5 (03:21):
Look, I think, um, nowadays, uh, a lot of what
we see is that scams, um, and the way that
they're perpetrated are much more complex, and they are really
much harder to identify. I think in the past, um, yes,
possibly there was, um, some scams that, um, would appear
pretty obvious, um, to your average person. I think what
we're careful about when we talk about scams, um, is that,
(03:43):
you know, there are different people will have different capabilities,
I guess, of being able to identify a scam. And so,
you know, we think that there's a scam for everybody
and that, um, uh, in the past and now, um,
I think what's changed, though now is that the scammers
are incredibly skilled at being able to make their scams
appear much more legitimate and much harder to detect. And
(04:06):
so we're all facing that. But yeah, I think these
are serious crimes. And, uh, we certainly think that, um,
you know, there are challenges nowadays in really being able
to identify them.
S2 (04:19):
Who are sort of running these kinds of scams.
S5 (04:21):
Yeah. Look, scams are really run by organized criminal networks, um,
often operating overseas. And they are run at a sort
of an industrialized scale now. So what we see now
is that there are massive centers that, um, have people
in them, sometimes people who are held against their will.
(04:41):
And those people are often forced to perpetrate these scams.
So it's a pretty complex and pretty scary, um, scary
world that I think, you know, scams are undertaken in
so massive organized crime, being able to do these at scale,
given the technologies that are available to them and, um,
able to reach, you know, thousands if not millions of, uh,
(05:04):
people in Australia and around the world.
S2 (05:06):
Where would the money be going? So our hard earned or, um,
not so hard earned money that we hand over. What
would that be going towards?
S5 (05:13):
Yeah. Look, we think that a lot of it is
going towards it's creating it's obviously illicit income for these
organised criminal networks. And what we understand is that a
lot of this money will be used to support other
types of crimes as well. So, um, there's likely links between, uh,
scam activity, other financial crime activity, broader, uh, fraud and
(05:35):
also the, uh, relationships to sort of drug and other
illicit activity. So this money that, uh, people maybe, maybe
stolen from people is often then finding its way into
supporting broader crime around the world.
S2 (05:50):
So these are really serious criminals. I mean, this is
not not really a laughing matter at all.
S5 (05:54):
No, not at all. It's incredibly serious and I think
poses some really significant threats to individuals and to, you know, some, um,
some countries in, the sense that we know that in
Southeast Asia there's a lot of scam centers being set up.
And as I said, they can often involve human trafficking
as well. So, um, really complex and serious issue.
S2 (06:14):
I'm leading in a certain direction. And there's a reason
for that because, I mean, I've become a fan on
YouTube of, uh, certain channels that will, for want of
a better word, will scam bait. And so would you
have a message for anyone out there who is thinking, oh,
this sounds fun and fantastic. Um, if they were thinking
of doing something like that.
S5 (06:32):
In terms of sort of trying to bait the scammers
and challenge them at their own game. Yeah. Look, I think, um,
we're really cautious about people, uh, you know, people engaging
with scammers at all. Um, whilst there might be some, uh,
you know, more experienced operators out there who may have
worked in intelligence backgrounds or law enforcement or other things
and engage with, um, with the scammers. I think, uh,
(06:55):
for most of us, it could be a pretty risky
type of activity to engage with them. And the best
method of protecting yourself is to end any engagement once
you realize somebody is a scammer. So you just never
know exactly what information they're trying to take from you
or access from you. So certainly we wouldn't recommend people
take up scam baiting, but we do acknowledge that there
(07:17):
are examples of, um, you know, some pretty impactful, uh,
scambaiters who have, uh, been able to even support or
assist law enforcement from time to time. But, um, yeah,
we we would probably suggest that, uh, any of that
sort of activity be undertaken by those who are, you know,
best placed to do that, which is most of the
time going to be law enforcement.
S2 (07:37):
So for the general person out there that's there, if
we can sum this up in two words, just don't.
S5 (07:41):
Yes, that's probably the right word.
S2 (07:43):
So all right, we'll, um, go on to the different
types of spam, because, I mean, these things are so
common now that I think all of our listeners would
have experienced this in some way. So, I mean, there's
the old fashioned, um, email scam, which sometimes, occasionally still
makes it through where they're obviously asking for money or
(08:03):
fishing for details.
S5 (08:05):
That's right. I mean, email scams, um, are a pretty significant.
People will no doubt get a lot of these in their, uh,
in their inboxes. And you'll see that there's a variety
of these sort of scams that come through via email
these days. Um, like you've said, the main purpose of
scams is to steal money or information. But I think
when it comes to email scams that often particularly phishing scams,
(08:26):
which you mentioned, that's often the type of scam where
they are likely to be trying to get you to give, um,
your personal information and so often sending things with links
in it so that you're enticed to click that link
and then, um, provide sensitive and personal information that can
include bank accounts or your, um, you know, your passwords
(08:46):
and things like that. So, um, they're pretty skilled at
doing that. And email is a really key way that
they will do that. But email is also used for
a range of other scams. We see email being used in, um,
fake invoice scams. So, uh, you know, you receive an
email that looks like it's your bill from your telco
or your energy supplier. And in fact, uh, they've changed the,
you know, BSB and account number that it's going to
(09:08):
be sent to and that is then redirected to a scammer.
So there's a range of different types of scams that
will use email as the contact, uh, kind of contact
point for people.
S2 (09:18):
I heard of an instance where, um, someone was, uh, billed,
I think it was for, um, a plumbing job. And yeah,
the scammers had intercepted the email and then sent them
pretty much the same thing, but with a different BSB.
So what would the solution there to to bypass that?
I mean, it would be better off going, say back
to good old fashioned paper receipts or something.
S5 (09:39):
Look, I think, um, lucky, uh, that these days, at
the same time that scammers are using technology, we are seeing, uh,
technology being used to help protect people as well. So
when it comes to those sort of scams, we're now
seeing the banking sector roll out, uh, what some may
have heard being called, uh, confirmation of payee, but basically
being able to, um, to check that the person you're, uh,
(10:01):
paying to is what you intend, you know, is who
you're intending to pay. And so the banks themselves have
implemented these sorts of initiatives so that people can be
more aware of who they're actually paying, because often it
may not be who you think you're paying. So and
we really encourage banking and the tech sector to be
looking for technological solutions that can help protect people, not
(10:22):
just putting everything on the consumer to have to sort
of identify that or go back to less, uh, innovative
ways of communicating um, i.e paper bills. So yes, there
are tools and technology being developed and we've seen some
of these rolled out in other jurisdictions as well. And
they can be quite impactful, particularly with these kind of scams.
It means that when you go to pay, you might
get a warning that says, you know, this, um, BSB
(10:44):
doesn't match the name here, um, you know, and then
asked if you want to proceed and things like that.
So I think those sort of mechanisms are really, uh,
the best way to prevent those sort of fake invoice,
scams being effective.
S2 (10:56):
Also, we still have the old fashioned romance scam and
this doesn't just go through email anymore, it goes through
social media and well, any way of actually getting in
contact with people.
S5 (11:06):
Yeah, that's right, romance scams have been around for a
long time, but now there's just so many different ways
that they can start a connection. What we're seeing is
that scammers are more clever in terms of starting that connection,
even as just a friendship to begin with. So they
might join, um, you know, a Facebook group, for example. Um,
that can look quite innocent at first and start, you know,
(11:27):
talking to people and then proceed to, uh, to then
try and form a stronger connection or relationship with somebody. Um,
obviously they use dating platforms as well. Uh, they use
a whole range of mechanisms, um, particularly online, to try
and start a connection and get people, uh, communicating with
them and, um, and often then proceeding to sort of
groom people. So, um, manipulating them over a longer period
(11:49):
of time until, um, the person that they've contacted starts
to trust them and they're very skilled at doing that.
S2 (11:56):
Well, I've had quite a number of friend requests from
absolutely gorgeous women in other parts of the world who
have absolutely nothing to do with any of my friends. Now,
I don't think I'm bad looking or anything like that
by any chance, but I am a blind man in
his mid 50s, so, um, maybe that means there's something
(12:17):
slightly askew there.
S5 (12:18):
Look, I think, uh, these, you know, the scammers will
often set up profiles, uh, that are going to be, uh,
profiles that are going to be more attractive to, to people. Um, but,
you know, again, they might be somebody who says that
they're a very attractive woman approaching you. And, um, and,
you know, uh, have also perhaps been looking at some
(12:41):
of the information that you might have out there. So
people who use, uh, social media may reveal certain things
about themselves, like their interests and other things. And that
can mean that then the scammer can sort of target
the interests that they might suggest that they, they share, um,
towards the person. So they're pretty clever at using, you know,
not just what we might think of as kind of,
(13:03):
you know, obviously very attractive people or sometimes impersonating celebrities,
but they actually really focused on techniques that involve, um,
making sort of a shared connection, um, and really preying
on our, you know, very human need for that sort
of connection, no matter who we are and sort of
no matter what, um, you know, challenges or barriers we
(13:23):
might face, they're going to be able to sort of
find a way to connect with you. So it could be,
for example, over a shared love of literature or a
particular game that they like or a sport. And, you know,
these are going to be the ways that they they
get that connection.
S1 (13:38):
This is studio one with Lizzy and Sam on Vision
Australia Radio.
S2 (13:45):
It's the point where we sort of can say, all right,
who are these scammers scammers targeting what sort of person
are they after?
S5 (13:53):
Look, I think it's really important at the outset to
say that scammers are targeting anyone that they can get
to respond to them. So there are some particular scams
that might impact certain, uh, different cultural backgrounds or certain
people more than others. Um, and we do know that
people and some, you know, some members of the community
may be at an increased risk of harm from certain scams,
(14:16):
but it's really important for people to note that all
of us can be vulnerable to a scam. And where
we're at in any particular, um, part of our life
might mean that we are a little bit more vulnerable.
But things like education level, status, wealth, employment, health, all
of these things are not going to provide immunity from scams.
Given the right set of circumstances. Any of us are
(14:38):
going to be, uh, able to be caught up in
a scam. But some people in communities will face some
significant barriers and circumstances that can make them a little
more vulnerable. So you only have to think about things
like people experiencing inadequate housing or financial constraints, poverty, poor health.
These can make it harder and give people a bit
(14:58):
of a disadvantage in terms of inequality and systems that
can lead to an increased risk of harm from scams.
And so we do see this, um, across, uh, different
sorts of people that, um, have been a victim of
a scam. But in general, they are really trying to
get just as many people as they can to get
as much money or information as they can.
S2 (15:19):
Well, I've known some pretty intelligent people that have been, um. Yeah,
fooled by these people.
S5 (15:25):
Yeah. Look, I think, um, yeah. I mean, when it
comes to scams, um, as I said, it can happen
to absolutely anybody. Um, you know, I've nearly been scammed.
I know plenty of friends and family members who have been, um,
it's really less to do with things about the individual people,
about how smart we are. Or, you know, what our
(15:45):
health is, what our age is. ages? It's less to
do with that and go to be. It's much more
about the ability of these criminals to utilize technology and
look more real than what most people would think, and
also use their knowledge of our basic human emotions. So
fear and hope and our need for connection. And by
exploiting those, they, um, are able to perpetrate the crimes
(16:08):
on anyone.
S2 (16:10):
I have a nice, simple one that this was a
couple of years ago that I nearly fell for. I
got to admit, um, got an SMS apparently from JB Hi-Fi,
and it was sort of fun. It was like, you know,
we're giving away a free phone every, um, you know,
half an hour or something like that. Just give us
your details and you're in the draw. But it kept
on counting down as well, so, you know. All right,
(16:31):
you got to do this. Bye. And no, I was
sort of at this stage, I actually did need a
new phone. My the other one was actually sort of
slowing down and all that sort of stuff. And I thought, well,
what's the what's what's the harm? Anyway, I sort of
had something else to do, so I got out of
it anyway and did that and went, oh, let's see
if I've still got time and jump back into it.
And the countdown started again and it's like, ah, okay.
(16:55):
So that was basically a phishing scam. Although after it
was uh, essentially the basic details name, email, date of birth,
that kind of thing. And that was just so simple.
S5 (17:07):
Yeah. And look, you can see in that example you
provided exactly what the scammers are doing. They're using a
sense of urgency, that countdown, that timer. It's giving you
a sense that you're going to miss out on something. Um,
it's preying on your emotions and and wanting you to
act quickly against your own interest. So, um, even providing
just a little bit of information, scammers are able to, uh,
(17:28):
utilize and access, uh, a lot of, you know, information
that might be out some in the public domain, um,
such as on social media, but also, uh, some information
that might be available to them through the fact that
we have, you know, lots of data breaches and things
like that, like By even getting a little bit of
information and joining that up with other things, they're then
more able to perpetrate more significant, uh, crimes against people.
(17:51):
So you're exactly right. That sort of, uh, scam that
you've just talked about is using very known techniques and seeking,
you know, even if it's a little bit of information
that can be dangerous, um, when pulled together with other
information in terms of, uh, being able to, you know,
hack into an account or make a phone call, that
sounds more legitimate. Um, because they've got a lot of
(18:12):
information about you.
S2 (18:13):
Well, indeed. And this was another case where, yes, when
we were getting a lot of phone scams. Uh, fortunately,
now we have call number displays, so we only had
to numbers that we know, but, um, there was we
had a call from supposedly a finance group, and I
was just doing a survey. They managed to get a
little bit of information from us. And then there was
(18:35):
a call from apparently a different organisation, and they were
using that information to sort of confirm that they were legit.
So I mean, some of this is quite, um, you know,
once you sort of look back on it, you're like, oh,
that's what they're doing. But they're in it for the
long game, aren't they?
S5 (18:50):
Yes they are. And that's, that's a we talked about earlier.
This is organized criminal activity. It's industrialized. So if you
think about these, uh, scam centers, they're like a business.
They are in for the long game. They are, uh,
investing in their own technology to be able to, uh,
reach people and to analyze large amounts of information and
(19:12):
data about us. So it's very much like, you know,
a large business, but it has, you know, it's a
criminal enterprise. And so, um, it's important people to understand
that it's sort of gone are the days where it
is the individual sitting in a garage, you know, over
the other side of the world. That doesn't mean that
doesn't happen. Of course it does. But I think what
we're looking at now and experiencing is this industrialization of
(19:35):
scam activity.
S2 (19:36):
One of the comments that we quite often do hear
still even And I'm talking about email scams. In fact,
it usually is. You can pick them out and we're
getting this with the same guys that are actually doing
our audits now at the At Vision Australia. You can
pick these out because words will be misspelt and they
might use a slightly different font or something like that.
So the Commonwealth Bank wouldn't necessarily use this font in
(19:59):
their emails, or the logo might look a bit off.
Now a lot of our listeners are totally blind or
severely visually impaired and are reliant on, um, on screen readers.
And what would your suggestion be to, um, in response
to that? I mean, how can you tell the difference, uh,
in this day and age?
S5 (20:17):
Yeah. Look, it's a really important point, I think. And
one thing that's been sort of, uh, something that we've
been noticing over probably the last sort of 12 to
15 months, as we've seen the rollout and sort of
large scale adoption of artificial intelligence. Um, and, you know,
many of us use artificial intelligence for legitimate, um, means,
but we also know scammers are using it. And what
(20:38):
that means is that when they impersonate, as you mentioned, say,
a major bank in an email scam or a text
message scam or even a website, they've got the tools
now to make those look identical, not only look identical,
sound identical to when they call you or when you
call them. You know, you might call a scam phone
number that's pretending to be a bank, and the message
(20:59):
you'll get will sound exactly like the bank that you use.
It'll be, um, you know, putting in place the same
sort of caller experience that you would, um, you would have.
So what we know is that this means that we
all have to have some basic steps to take to
protect ourselves we can't rely on. Oh, just, you know,
read the, um, read the email and look out for
(21:20):
spelling errors. That's not going to protect us anymore. So
I think we're all in this together in that sense. Um,
and that, uh, it's really important for everybody to understand
that those sort of, uh, that sort of advice isn't
going to work as much in this day and age
because the tools are out there for these scammers to
impersonate really trusted brands in a really legitimate way. They
(21:42):
can impersonate government law enforcement, they can impersonate banks and
telcos and the systems and processes that we use every day.
So in order to protect ourselves, I think it is
really important that whatever we're doing that we're really starting
to recognize, when we feel that we are being rushed
by someone to take quick action, and then we need
(22:05):
to slow down and stop. And what that could mean
for your listeners out there is stopping and having a
conversation with someone else. What we know is that when
people sort of talk about something with someone else, that
it means that they may think about some of the
risks a bit more and then take action. So, for example,
if somebody asked me, you know, I got this, uh,
(22:25):
I've got this email here and it's asking me to
do X, Y and Z, you know, click a link.
My first reaction would be don't click that link if
you say they think it's from their bank, why don't
you go and contact your bank in the usual way?
You know, if that's through an app, if that's over
the phone, if that's in the store, do that. That
way it's much safer. It's just avoiding that risk altogether.
(22:46):
It's dangerous to act on particularly unexpected emails that come
through and that are asking you to give information. Click
a link or you know, any other type of action.
And the way you can recognise that is not by
things inherent within the message itself. I think the best
way is to think about how you're feeling at the time.
Are you feeling rushed? Are you feeling worried? Do you
(23:09):
think you're going to miss out on something if you
don't act quickly? If you're feeling those feelings, and it's
really important to slow down and to stop and check
and protect yourself. And so for all of your listeners,
I think being careful when you get any message to
make sure you're considering whether it could be legitimate or not,
and understanding that it won't necessarily be obvious from the
(23:30):
message itself. So what actions can you take to avoid
the risk that this could be a scam? And that
means with a bank email actually going and contacting your
bank proactively in the usual way, not in any way
that you've been advised in an email.
S2 (23:45):
What I've also found a handy thing to do is,
if something looks a bit sus, is to take the
subject line and actually put it into Google, and quite
often that will come up with results that say this,
this is a scam.
S5 (23:55):
Yeah, that's a great step. I mean that, you know,
that's a really good way to try and identify if
something's been a scam. And that's why we encourage people
to report, because the more people report them, the more
people talk about them, the more we're all aware of
what they look like and when we might need to, um,
stop and protect ourselves.
S2 (24:10):
So before we go, I'm going to also move over, um,
to the wonderful world of social media. So because it's
still a fairly visual, um, system and because other certain
other social media systems have gone the way of the dogs,
as it were. So Facebook seems to be the main
form of communication for a lot of blind people. Now,
I've seen a lot of ads that are actually sponsored,
(24:33):
listed as sponsored by Facebook themselves. But, well, they are scams.
I mean, the Christmas boxes is your, um, classic one
where they're supposedly, um, all this, um, claimed material from
Amazon is being handed into, you know, one single Christmas box.
Would you have any hint on how to actually pick
(24:53):
up what's real and what's not real on social media?
S5 (24:56):
Um, social media is going to be the type of
platform where you're going to end up seeing, um, quite
a lot of a diverse range of scams. So I think, again,
the important thing is to be thinking about what actions
are you taking in response to the communication and then
stopping and checking whether there's a safer way to take
that action. So if you're seeing, for example, an ad
(25:16):
about a product that looks too good to be true,
you know you're getting excited about it. I must say,
I've done this. I can be on a social media
platform and, um, wow, that's a really cheap pair of
my favorite shoes. Um, you know, I want to act quickly,
but it's really important then to to do your checks
to think about actually. Is this a business I've dealt
with before? It might not be. And that doesn't mean
(25:38):
that it's necessarily unsafe, but it's really important then to
to do checks like you just said. Possibly you then
want to go and type that into Google and look
and see if anyone's mentioned it as a scam. I
often type in the name of a store and the
word scam and have a look and see what people
are saying if I don't know anything about it. But
if you're unsure, it is just really important not to proceed.
(25:59):
I think that that's, you know, one of the, uh,
it sounds, um, easy, but when you're caught up in
the moment and that's what scammers are trying to make,
you do get caught up in the moment, get excited
about a product or a service, and then act really
quickly again, to your detriment sometimes.
S2 (26:13):
Would it be also worthwhile instead of clicking on the
links in the ads themselves to actually, um, navigate to
the site manually?
S5 (26:20):
Absolutely. So just like the earlier example we talked about
with the bank, if you're interested in, um, a product
or an ad that you see on social media, rather
than clicking through the platform, going out onto the, the,
the web, for example. And, um, seeing what you can
find about the business, including an independent website and then
doing your, you know, your research on that. It's better
(26:43):
to miss out on a good deal for a pair
of shoes than it is to lose, you know, large
amounts of money or your banking information or your personal identity.
S2 (26:50):
I suppose the other thing as well is if anyone's
asking for vouchers instead of cash. Yes, that's legit, isn't it?
That's not legit, is it?
S5 (26:58):
No, it's not legit at all. So, um, when you're
asked to pay for anything, um, particularly, uh, using gift
cards or vouchers, um, definitely a sign that this is
not legitimate. This is looking like a scam. Similarly, sometimes
if somebody's coaching you in a way to pay in
a specific way that you've never paid before. So, for example, um,
(27:22):
we often see people being coached online to set up
a cryptocurrency account and that are being coached to do that.
Is someone sort of telling you to pay in a
really specific way that you haven't used? Um, we would
recommend that you stop in those circumstances as well. That
doesn't mean that everything about cryptocurrency is bad, but certainly
if someone's sort of saying, okay, I know how you
(27:43):
can do this, go over here and set up a
cryptocurrency account, then, uh, you should stop in those circumstances
as well.
S2 (27:49):
And that would account for any payment platform. If it's
something you haven't used in I say, no, you have
to use this. You can't use any other. Then that
would be a way of saying maybe you shouldn't be
doing this.
S5 (28:01):
Yeah, exactly. Particularly something you're not familiar with and that
you've never used before. That isn't just a sort of
traditional way that you might be used to paying things.
So I have a credit card that I use for
my online shopping with a low limit on it in
case anything ever happens. Um, I can, you know, cancel
that card and easily, um, recover from that if I
do get scammed. But, um, it's really important to think
(28:23):
about sort of the types of payment methods that you're
using and understand what the implications are. If, um, you know,
if you are using a particular payment method, the terms
and conditions that might apply in terms of your rights
to be able to get refunds and things like that.
S2 (28:36):
Brilliant. So before we go today, is there anything you
want to leave our listeners with that that might sort
of prepare them for this rather complicated world where it
seems everyone's out there to try and take your money illegally.
S5 (28:49):
Yeah. Look, I think, um, all I would say is
that we are all in this together. We all play
a role in the fight against scams. So it's not
just on, um, individuals, but it's really important that we
talk about scams. This is going to help reduce the stigma.
It's no one's fault being scammed. It's the criminals who
are perpetrating them who are in the wrong. And we
(29:09):
encourage people to share their experience. This can help protect you,
your family and your friends by reporting scams to services
like Scamwatch. You can also help protect others. That information
you give us helps us stay ahead of the scams
and helps us to stop them. And just finally, my
last advice would be to always stop, to check and
(29:33):
protect yourself. Thank you.
S2 (29:36):
Indeed, that, uh, cheap pair of shoes you say is
not worth losing a fortune over.
S5 (29:41):
Is not worth it.
S2 (29:42):
Jade Richmond from the Anti-scam Centre. Thank you so much
for joining us. I think we've all learned a lot
this afternoon.
S5 (29:49):
Thank you for having me.
S2 (29:51):
That's a wrap for this week. A big thank you
to Jade Richmond, as well as Elika and Fiona from
the National Anti-scam Centre.
S4 (29:59):
And of course, thanks to you for listening. That includes
our listeners on the Reading Radio Network. You can find
a podcast of this program, plus some extra content on Apple, Spotify,
Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (30:13):
Next week, tell us what you really think.
S4 (30:15):
We catch up with doctor Chrissie Antonopoulos from Beyond Bias
Consulting and she talks about the unconscious bias people have
against people with disability.
S2 (30:26):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help somebody
else who is dealing with something similar.
S4 (30:40):
You can reach us via email at studio one. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia. Or of course,
you can find us on all of the good social
media platforms like Facebook and Instagram by going to VA
Radio Network.
S1 (30:56):
Studio one was produced in the Adelaide studios of Vision
Australia Radio. This show was made possible with the help
of the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at.
S2 (31:12):
Lizzie, I think I got scammed on this TV deal.
S4 (31:16):
Yeah, I think you may have.
This is Studio One with Sam Rickard and Lizzie Eastham
on Vision Australia Radio.
S2 (00:21):
So, Lizzie, I came across this great deal from one
of the big streamers on Facebook.
S3 (00:27):
Mhm. Yep.
S2 (00:28):
And well, I've been hearing a lot about these, uh,
scams that if you, you know, they'll impersonate a advertiser
or whatever. So I actually got out of Facebook and
looked them up on their web page. And yes, it
was true this deal was still going through. So I've
signed up and I'm going to get an awful lot
(00:49):
of great shows that I really, really love. Yep. And
it's only costing me $150 in iTunes cards.
S4 (00:54):
Oh, gosh.
S2 (01:00):
Hello, I'm Sam.
S4 (01:01):
And I'm Lizzie.
S2 (01:02):
And this is Studio One, your weekly look at life
from a low vision and blind point of view here
on Vision Australia Radio.
S4 (01:08):
This week. Have you ever had any experience with scammers?
S2 (01:11):
We catch up with Jade Richmond, the general manager of
the National Anti-scam Centre.
S4 (01:15):
As we always say at this point, please do get
in touch with the show. Whether you have experience of
any of the issues covered on this week's episode of
Studio One, or if you think there's something we should
be talking about. You never know. Your story and insight
may help someone who's dealing with something similar.
S2 (01:31):
You can contact us via email at studio One at org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia. Org.
S4 (01:38):
Or perhaps you can drop us a note on our
Facebook page by going to facebook.com slash radio network.
S2 (01:47):
De Jade.
S5 (01:48):
Hey, how you doing? I will apologize.
S2 (01:50):
You may not know, but I got your name wrong
when I was promoting last week's episode, so apologies in
advance for that one. Anyway, you're from Scamwatch. Um, so
maybe you can describe sort of what your job is
and what the organisation you work for does.
S5 (02:07):
Yeah, absolutely. So my, um, my role is the general
manager of the National Anti-scam Centre and the National Anti-scam Centre,
sits within the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission. So basically
we've been set up to coordinate national and multi-sector efforts
to stop scams. Scamwatch is really the public facing side
(02:27):
of the National Anti-scam Centre, and Scamwatch provides a website
and a service for people to report scams to obtain
information about how they can protect themselves from scams, and
a whole lot of resources that can assist them in
terms of understanding how scams work and how they can
avoid them. And it also provides some statistical data and
things like that on the website.
S2 (02:47):
Now, before we went to air, we were sort of
talking about how things have actually changed a little bit.
I mean, I'm old enough to remember when the internet
was first brought in, and pretty much as soon as
we were getting emails, we were getting scam emails. And
I don't know, for anyone who was sort of practice
at it, you could sort of see what they were.
It was kind of like, I can't believe people are
(03:08):
actually falling for these things. And yet, of course, people were.
I mean, what's the philosophy behind. I mean, we're still
even getting obvious ones. Now, what's the philosophy behind sending
out things that clearly not even an idiot would fall for?
S5 (03:21):
Look, I think, um, nowadays, uh, a lot of what
we see is that scams, um, and the way that
they're perpetrated are much more complex, and they are really
much harder to identify. I think in the past, um, yes,
possibly there was, um, some scams that, um, would appear
pretty obvious, um, to your average person. I think what
we're careful about when we talk about scams, um, is that,
(03:43):
you know, there are different people will have different capabilities,
I guess, of being able to identify a scam. And so,
you know, we think that there's a scam for everybody
and that, um, uh, in the past and now, um,
I think what's changed, though now is that the scammers
are incredibly skilled at being able to make their scams
appear much more legitimate and much harder to detect. And
(04:06):
so we're all facing that. But yeah, I think these
are serious crimes. And, uh, we certainly think that, um,
you know, there are challenges nowadays in really being able
to identify them.
S2 (04:19):
Who are sort of running these kinds of scams.
S5 (04:21):
Yeah. Look, scams are really run by organized criminal networks, um,
often operating overseas. And they are run at a sort
of an industrialized scale now. So what we see now
is that there are massive centers that, um, have people
in them, sometimes people who are held against their will.
(04:41):
And those people are often forced to perpetrate these scams.
So it's a pretty complex and pretty scary, um, scary
world that I think, you know, scams are undertaken in
so massive organized crime, being able to do these at scale,
given the technologies that are available to them and, um,
able to reach, you know, thousands if not millions of, uh,
(05:04):
people in Australia and around the world.
S2 (05:06):
Where would the money be going? So our hard earned or, um,
not so hard earned money that we hand over. What
would that be going towards?
S5 (05:13):
Yeah. Look, we think that a lot of it is
going towards it's creating it's obviously illicit income for these
organised criminal networks. And what we understand is that a
lot of this money will be used to support other
types of crimes as well. So, um, there's likely links between, uh,
scam activity, other financial crime activity, broader, uh, fraud and
(05:35):
also the, uh, relationships to sort of drug and other
illicit activity. So this money that, uh, people maybe, maybe
stolen from people is often then finding its way into
supporting broader crime around the world.
S2 (05:50):
So these are really serious criminals. I mean, this is
not not really a laughing matter at all.
S5 (05:54):
No, not at all. It's incredibly serious and I think
poses some really significant threats to individuals and to, you know, some, um,
some countries in, the sense that we know that in
Southeast Asia there's a lot of scam centers being set up.
And as I said, they can often involve human trafficking
as well. So, um, really complex and serious issue.
S2 (06:14):
I'm leading in a certain direction. And there's a reason
for that because, I mean, I've become a fan on
YouTube of, uh, certain channels that will, for want of
a better word, will scam bait. And so would you
have a message for anyone out there who is thinking, oh,
this sounds fun and fantastic. Um, if they were thinking
of doing something like that.
S5 (06:32):
In terms of sort of trying to bait the scammers
and challenge them at their own game. Yeah. Look, I think, um,
we're really cautious about people, uh, you know, people engaging
with scammers at all. Um, whilst there might be some, uh,
you know, more experienced operators out there who may have
worked in intelligence backgrounds or law enforcement or other things
and engage with, um, with the scammers. I think, uh,
(06:55):
for most of us, it could be a pretty risky
type of activity to engage with them. And the best
method of protecting yourself is to end any engagement once
you realize somebody is a scammer. So you just never
know exactly what information they're trying to take from you
or access from you. So certainly we wouldn't recommend people
take up scam baiting, but we do acknowledge that there
(07:17):
are examples of, um, you know, some pretty impactful, uh,
scambaiters who have, uh, been able to even support or
assist law enforcement from time to time. But, um, yeah,
we we would probably suggest that, uh, any of that
sort of activity be undertaken by those who are, you know,
best placed to do that, which is most of the
time going to be law enforcement.
S2 (07:37):
So for the general person out there that's there, if
we can sum this up in two words, just don't.
S5 (07:41):
Yes, that's probably the right word.
S2 (07:43):
So all right, we'll, um, go on to the different
types of spam, because, I mean, these things are so
common now that I think all of our listeners would
have experienced this in some way. So, I mean, there's
the old fashioned, um, email scam, which sometimes, occasionally still
makes it through where they're obviously asking for money or
(08:03):
fishing for details.
S5 (08:05):
That's right. I mean, email scams, um, are a pretty significant.
People will no doubt get a lot of these in their, uh,
in their inboxes. And you'll see that there's a variety
of these sort of scams that come through via email
these days. Um, like you've said, the main purpose of
scams is to steal money or information. But I think
when it comes to email scams that often particularly phishing scams,
(08:26):
which you mentioned, that's often the type of scam where
they are likely to be trying to get you to give, um,
your personal information and so often sending things with links
in it so that you're enticed to click that link
and then, um, provide sensitive and personal information that can
include bank accounts or your, um, you know, your passwords
(08:46):
and things like that. So, um, they're pretty skilled at
doing that. And email is a really key way that
they will do that. But email is also used for
a range of other scams. We see email being used in, um,
fake invoice scams. So, uh, you know, you receive an
email that looks like it's your bill from your telco
or your energy supplier. And in fact, uh, they've changed the,
you know, BSB and account number that it's going to
(09:08):
be sent to and that is then redirected to a scammer.
So there's a range of different types of scams that
will use email as the contact, uh, kind of contact
point for people.
S2 (09:18):
I heard of an instance where, um, someone was, uh, billed,
I think it was for, um, a plumbing job. And yeah,
the scammers had intercepted the email and then sent them
pretty much the same thing, but with a different BSB.
So what would the solution there to to bypass that?
I mean, it would be better off going, say back
to good old fashioned paper receipts or something.
S5 (09:39):
Look, I think, um, lucky, uh, that these days, at
the same time that scammers are using technology, we are seeing, uh,
technology being used to help protect people as well. So
when it comes to those sort of scams, we're now
seeing the banking sector roll out, uh, what some may
have heard being called, uh, confirmation of payee, but basically
being able to, um, to check that the person you're, uh,
(10:01):
paying to is what you intend, you know, is who
you're intending to pay. And so the banks themselves have
implemented these sorts of initiatives so that people can be
more aware of who they're actually paying, because often it
may not be who you think you're paying. So and
we really encourage banking and the tech sector to be
looking for technological solutions that can help protect people, not
(10:22):
just putting everything on the consumer to have to sort
of identify that or go back to less, uh, innovative
ways of communicating um, i.e paper bills. So yes, there
are tools and technology being developed and we've seen some
of these rolled out in other jurisdictions as well. And
they can be quite impactful, particularly with these kind of scams.
It means that when you go to pay, you might
get a warning that says, you know, this, um, BSB
(10:44):
doesn't match the name here, um, you know, and then
asked if you want to proceed and things like that.
So I think those sort of mechanisms are really, uh,
the best way to prevent those sort of fake invoice,
scams being effective.
S2 (10:56):
Also, we still have the old fashioned romance scam and
this doesn't just go through email anymore, it goes through
social media and well, any way of actually getting in
contact with people.
S5 (11:06):
Yeah, that's right, romance scams have been around for a
long time, but now there's just so many different ways
that they can start a connection. What we're seeing is
that scammers are more clever in terms of starting that connection,
even as just a friendship to begin with. So they
might join, um, you know, a Facebook group, for example. Um,
that can look quite innocent at first and start, you know,
(11:27):
talking to people and then proceed to, uh, to then
try and form a stronger connection or relationship with somebody. Um,
obviously they use dating platforms as well. Uh, they use
a whole range of mechanisms, um, particularly online, to try
and start a connection and get people, uh, communicating with
them and, um, and often then proceeding to sort of
groom people. So, um, manipulating them over a longer period
(11:49):
of time until, um, the person that they've contacted starts
to trust them and they're very skilled at doing that.
S2 (11:56):
Well, I've had quite a number of friend requests from
absolutely gorgeous women in other parts of the world who
have absolutely nothing to do with any of my friends. Now,
I don't think I'm bad looking or anything like that
by any chance, but I am a blind man in
his mid 50s, so, um, maybe that means there's something
(12:17):
slightly askew there.
S5 (12:18):
Look, I think, uh, these, you know, the scammers will
often set up profiles, uh, that are going to be, uh,
profiles that are going to be more attractive to, to people. Um, but,
you know, again, they might be somebody who says that
they're a very attractive woman approaching you. And, um, and,
you know, uh, have also perhaps been looking at some
(12:41):
of the information that you might have out there. So
people who use, uh, social media may reveal certain things
about themselves, like their interests and other things. And that
can mean that then the scammer can sort of target
the interests that they might suggest that they, they share, um,
towards the person. So they're pretty clever at using, you know,
not just what we might think of as kind of,
(13:03):
you know, obviously very attractive people or sometimes impersonating celebrities,
but they actually really focused on techniques that involve, um,
making sort of a shared connection, um, and really preying
on our, you know, very human need for that sort
of connection, no matter who we are and sort of
no matter what, um, you know, challenges or barriers we
(13:23):
might face, they're going to be able to sort of
find a way to connect with you. So it could be,
for example, over a shared love of literature or a
particular game that they like or a sport. And, you know,
these are going to be the ways that they they
get that connection.
S1 (13:38):
This is studio one with Lizzy and Sam on Vision
Australia Radio.
S2 (13:45):
It's the point where we sort of can say, all right,
who are these scammers scammers targeting what sort of person
are they after?
S5 (13:53):
Look, I think it's really important at the outset to
say that scammers are targeting anyone that they can get
to respond to them. So there are some particular scams
that might impact certain, uh, different cultural backgrounds or certain
people more than others. Um, and we do know that
people and some, you know, some members of the community
may be at an increased risk of harm from certain scams,
(14:16):
but it's really important for people to note that all
of us can be vulnerable to a scam. And where
we're at in any particular, um, part of our life
might mean that we are a little bit more vulnerable.
But things like education level, status, wealth, employment, health, all
of these things are not going to provide immunity from scams.
Given the right set of circumstances. Any of us are
(14:38):
going to be, uh, able to be caught up in
a scam. But some people in communities will face some
significant barriers and circumstances that can make them a little
more vulnerable. So you only have to think about things
like people experiencing inadequate housing or financial constraints, poverty, poor health.
These can make it harder and give people a bit
(14:58):
of a disadvantage in terms of inequality and systems that
can lead to an increased risk of harm from scams.
And so we do see this, um, across, uh, different
sorts of people that, um, have been a victim of
a scam. But in general, they are really trying to
get just as many people as they can to get
as much money or information as they can.
S2 (15:19):
Well, I've known some pretty intelligent people that have been, um. Yeah,
fooled by these people.
S5 (15:25):
Yeah. Look, I think, um, yeah. I mean, when it
comes to scams, um, as I said, it can happen
to absolutely anybody. Um, you know, I've nearly been scammed.
I know plenty of friends and family members who have been, um,
it's really less to do with things about the individual people,
about how smart we are. Or, you know, what our
(15:45):
health is, what our age is. ages? It's less to
do with that and go to be. It's much more
about the ability of these criminals to utilize technology and
look more real than what most people would think, and
also use their knowledge of our basic human emotions. So
fear and hope and our need for connection. And by
exploiting those, they, um, are able to perpetrate the crimes
(16:08):
on anyone.
S2 (16:10):
I have a nice, simple one that this was a
couple of years ago that I nearly fell for. I
got to admit, um, got an SMS apparently from JB Hi-Fi,
and it was sort of fun. It was like, you know,
we're giving away a free phone every, um, you know,
half an hour or something like that. Just give us
your details and you're in the draw. But it kept
on counting down as well, so, you know. All right,
(16:31):
you got to do this. Bye. And no, I was
sort of at this stage, I actually did need a
new phone. My the other one was actually sort of
slowing down and all that sort of stuff. And I thought, well,
what's the what's what's the harm? Anyway, I sort of
had something else to do, so I got out of
it anyway and did that and went, oh, let's see
if I've still got time and jump back into it.
And the countdown started again and it's like, ah, okay.
(16:55):
So that was basically a phishing scam. Although after it
was uh, essentially the basic details name, email, date of birth,
that kind of thing. And that was just so simple.
S5 (17:07):
Yeah. And look, you can see in that example you
provided exactly what the scammers are doing. They're using a
sense of urgency, that countdown, that timer. It's giving you
a sense that you're going to miss out on something. Um,
it's preying on your emotions and and wanting you to
act quickly against your own interest. So, um, even providing
just a little bit of information, scammers are able to, uh,
(17:28):
utilize and access, uh, a lot of, you know, information
that might be out some in the public domain, um,
such as on social media, but also, uh, some information
that might be available to them through the fact that
we have, you know, lots of data breaches and things
like that, like By even getting a little bit of
information and joining that up with other things, they're then
more able to perpetrate more significant, uh, crimes against people.
(17:51):
So you're exactly right. That sort of, uh, scam that
you've just talked about is using very known techniques and seeking,
you know, even if it's a little bit of information
that can be dangerous, um, when pulled together with other
information in terms of, uh, being able to, you know,
hack into an account or make a phone call, that
sounds more legitimate. Um, because they've got a lot of
(18:12):
information about you.
S2 (18:13):
Well, indeed. And this was another case where, yes, when
we were getting a lot of phone scams. Uh, fortunately,
now we have call number displays, so we only had
to numbers that we know, but, um, there was we
had a call from supposedly a finance group, and I
was just doing a survey. They managed to get a
little bit of information from us. And then there was
(18:35):
a call from apparently a different organisation, and they were
using that information to sort of confirm that they were legit.
So I mean, some of this is quite, um, you know,
once you sort of look back on it, you're like, oh,
that's what they're doing. But they're in it for the
long game, aren't they?
S5 (18:50):
Yes they are. And that's, that's a we talked about earlier.
This is organized criminal activity. It's industrialized. So if you
think about these, uh, scam centers, they're like a business.
They are in for the long game. They are, uh,
investing in their own technology to be able to, uh,
reach people and to analyze large amounts of information and
(19:12):
data about us. So it's very much like, you know,
a large business, but it has, you know, it's a
criminal enterprise. And so, um, it's important people to understand
that it's sort of gone are the days where it
is the individual sitting in a garage, you know, over
the other side of the world. That doesn't mean that
doesn't happen. Of course it does. But I think what
we're looking at now and experiencing is this industrialization of
(19:35):
scam activity.
S2 (19:36):
One of the comments that we quite often do hear
still even And I'm talking about email scams. In fact,
it usually is. You can pick them out and we're
getting this with the same guys that are actually doing
our audits now at the At Vision Australia. You can
pick these out because words will be misspelt and they
might use a slightly different font or something like that.
So the Commonwealth Bank wouldn't necessarily use this font in
(19:59):
their emails, or the logo might look a bit off.
Now a lot of our listeners are totally blind or
severely visually impaired and are reliant on, um, on screen readers.
And what would your suggestion be to, um, in response
to that? I mean, how can you tell the difference, uh,
in this day and age?
S5 (20:17):
Yeah. Look, it's a really important point, I think. And
one thing that's been sort of, uh, something that we've
been noticing over probably the last sort of 12 to
15 months, as we've seen the rollout and sort of
large scale adoption of artificial intelligence. Um, and, you know,
many of us use artificial intelligence for legitimate, um, means,
but we also know scammers are using it. And what
(20:38):
that means is that when they impersonate, as you mentioned, say,
a major bank in an email scam or a text
message scam or even a website, they've got the tools
now to make those look identical, not only look identical,
sound identical to when they call you or when you
call them. You know, you might call a scam phone
number that's pretending to be a bank, and the message
(20:59):
you'll get will sound exactly like the bank that you use.
It'll be, um, you know, putting in place the same
sort of caller experience that you would, um, you would have.
So what we know is that this means that we
all have to have some basic steps to take to
protect ourselves we can't rely on. Oh, just, you know,
read the, um, read the email and look out for
(21:20):
spelling errors. That's not going to protect us anymore. So
I think we're all in this together in that sense. Um,
and that, uh, it's really important for everybody to understand
that those sort of, uh, that sort of advice isn't
going to work as much in this day and age
because the tools are out there for these scammers to
impersonate really trusted brands in a really legitimate way. They
(21:42):
can impersonate government law enforcement, they can impersonate banks and
telcos and the systems and processes that we use every day.
So in order to protect ourselves, I think it is
really important that whatever we're doing that we're really starting
to recognize, when we feel that we are being rushed
by someone to take quick action, and then we need
(22:05):
to slow down and stop. And what that could mean
for your listeners out there is stopping and having a
conversation with someone else. What we know is that when
people sort of talk about something with someone else, that
it means that they may think about some of the
risks a bit more and then take action. So, for example,
if somebody asked me, you know, I got this, uh,
(22:25):
I've got this email here and it's asking me to
do X, Y and Z, you know, click a link.
My first reaction would be don't click that link if
you say they think it's from their bank, why don't
you go and contact your bank in the usual way?
You know, if that's through an app, if that's over
the phone, if that's in the store, do that. That
way it's much safer. It's just avoiding that risk altogether.
(22:46):
It's dangerous to act on particularly unexpected emails that come
through and that are asking you to give information. Click
a link or you know, any other type of action.
And the way you can recognise that is not by
things inherent within the message itself. I think the best
way is to think about how you're feeling at the time.
Are you feeling rushed? Are you feeling worried? Do you
(23:09):
think you're going to miss out on something if you
don't act quickly? If you're feeling those feelings, and it's
really important to slow down and to stop and check
and protect yourself. And so for all of your listeners,
I think being careful when you get any message to
make sure you're considering whether it could be legitimate or not,
and understanding that it won't necessarily be obvious from the
(23:30):
message itself. So what actions can you take to avoid
the risk that this could be a scam? And that
means with a bank email actually going and contacting your
bank proactively in the usual way, not in any way
that you've been advised in an email.
S2 (23:45):
What I've also found a handy thing to do is,
if something looks a bit sus, is to take the
subject line and actually put it into Google, and quite
often that will come up with results that say this,
this is a scam.
S5 (23:55):
Yeah, that's a great step. I mean that, you know,
that's a really good way to try and identify if
something's been a scam. And that's why we encourage people
to report, because the more people report them, the more
people talk about them, the more we're all aware of
what they look like and when we might need to, um,
stop and protect ourselves.
S2 (24:10):
So before we go, I'm going to also move over, um,
to the wonderful world of social media. So because it's
still a fairly visual, um, system and because other certain
other social media systems have gone the way of the dogs,
as it were. So Facebook seems to be the main
form of communication for a lot of blind people. Now,
I've seen a lot of ads that are actually sponsored,
(24:33):
listed as sponsored by Facebook themselves. But, well, they are scams.
I mean, the Christmas boxes is your, um, classic one
where they're supposedly, um, all this, um, claimed material from
Amazon is being handed into, you know, one single Christmas box.
Would you have any hint on how to actually pick
(24:53):
up what's real and what's not real on social media?
S5 (24:56):
Um, social media is going to be the type of
platform where you're going to end up seeing, um, quite
a lot of a diverse range of scams. So I think, again,
the important thing is to be thinking about what actions
are you taking in response to the communication and then
stopping and checking whether there's a safer way to take
that action. So if you're seeing, for example, an ad
(25:16):
about a product that looks too good to be true,
you know you're getting excited about it. I must say,
I've done this. I can be on a social media
platform and, um, wow, that's a really cheap pair of
my favorite shoes. Um, you know, I want to act quickly,
but it's really important then to to do your checks
to think about actually. Is this a business I've dealt
with before? It might not be. And that doesn't mean
(25:38):
that it's necessarily unsafe, but it's really important then to
to do checks like you just said. Possibly you then
want to go and type that into Google and look
and see if anyone's mentioned it as a scam. I
often type in the name of a store and the
word scam and have a look and see what people
are saying if I don't know anything about it. But
if you're unsure, it is just really important not to proceed.
(25:59):
I think that that's, you know, one of the, uh,
it sounds, um, easy, but when you're caught up in
the moment and that's what scammers are trying to make,
you do get caught up in the moment, get excited
about a product or a service, and then act really
quickly again, to your detriment sometimes.
S2 (26:13):
Would it be also worthwhile instead of clicking on the
links in the ads themselves to actually, um, navigate to
the site manually?
S5 (26:20):
Absolutely. So just like the earlier example we talked about
with the bank, if you're interested in, um, a product
or an ad that you see on social media, rather
than clicking through the platform, going out onto the, the,
the web, for example. And, um, seeing what you can
find about the business, including an independent website and then
doing your, you know, your research on that. It's better
(26:43):
to miss out on a good deal for a pair
of shoes than it is to lose, you know, large
amounts of money or your banking information or your personal identity.
S2 (26:50):
I suppose the other thing as well is if anyone's
asking for vouchers instead of cash. Yes, that's legit, isn't it?
That's not legit, is it?
S5 (26:58):
No, it's not legit at all. So, um, when you're
asked to pay for anything, um, particularly, uh, using gift
cards or vouchers, um, definitely a sign that this is
not legitimate. This is looking like a scam. Similarly, sometimes
if somebody's coaching you in a way to pay in
a specific way that you've never paid before. So, for example, um,
(27:22):
we often see people being coached online to set up
a cryptocurrency account and that are being coached to do that.
Is someone sort of telling you to pay in a
really specific way that you haven't used? Um, we would
recommend that you stop in those circumstances as well. That
doesn't mean that everything about cryptocurrency is bad, but certainly
if someone's sort of saying, okay, I know how you
(27:43):
can do this, go over here and set up a
cryptocurrency account, then, uh, you should stop in those circumstances
as well.
S2 (27:49):
And that would account for any payment platform. If it's
something you haven't used in I say, no, you have
to use this. You can't use any other. Then that
would be a way of saying maybe you shouldn't be
doing this.
S5 (28:01):
Yeah, exactly. Particularly something you're not familiar with and that
you've never used before. That isn't just a sort of
traditional way that you might be used to paying things.
So I have a credit card that I use for
my online shopping with a low limit on it in
case anything ever happens. Um, I can, you know, cancel
that card and easily, um, recover from that if I
do get scammed. But, um, it's really important to think
(28:23):
about sort of the types of payment methods that you're
using and understand what the implications are. If, um, you know,
if you are using a particular payment method, the terms
and conditions that might apply in terms of your rights
to be able to get refunds and things like that.
S2 (28:36):
Brilliant. So before we go today, is there anything you
want to leave our listeners with that that might sort
of prepare them for this rather complicated world where it
seems everyone's out there to try and take your money illegally.
S5 (28:49):
Yeah. Look, I think, um, all I would say is
that we are all in this together. We all play
a role in the fight against scams. So it's not
just on, um, individuals, but it's really important that we
talk about scams. This is going to help reduce the stigma.
It's no one's fault being scammed. It's the criminals who
are perpetrating them who are in the wrong. And we
(29:09):
encourage people to share their experience. This can help protect you,
your family and your friends by reporting scams to services
like Scamwatch. You can also help protect others. That information
you give us helps us stay ahead of the scams
and helps us to stop them. And just finally, my
last advice would be to always stop, to check and
(29:33):
protect yourself. Thank you.
S2 (29:36):
Indeed, that, uh, cheap pair of shoes you say is
not worth losing a fortune over.
S5 (29:41):
Is not worth it.
S2 (29:42):
Jade Richmond from the Anti-scam Centre. Thank you so much
for joining us. I think we've all learned a lot
this afternoon.
S5 (29:49):
Thank you for having me.
S2 (29:51):
That's a wrap for this week. A big thank you
to Jade Richmond, as well as Elika and Fiona from
the National Anti-scam Centre.
S4 (29:59):
And of course, thanks to you for listening. That includes
our listeners on the Reading Radio Network. You can find
a podcast of this program, plus some extra content on Apple, Spotify,
Google or your favorite podcast platform.
S2 (30:13):
Next week, tell us what you really think.
S4 (30:15):
We catch up with doctor Chrissie Antonopoulos from Beyond Bias
Consulting and she talks about the unconscious bias people have
against people with disability.
S2 (30:26):
But between now and then, please do get in touch
with the show. Whether you have experience of any of
the issues covered on this week's episode of Studio One,
or if you think there's something we should be talking about.
You never know. Your story and insight may help somebody
else who is dealing with something similar.
S4 (30:40):
You can reach us via email at studio one. Org.
That's studio number one at Vision Australia. Or of course,
you can find us on all of the good social
media platforms like Facebook and Instagram by going to VA
Radio Network.
S1 (30:56):
Studio one was produced in the Adelaide studios of Vision
Australia Radio. This show was made possible with the help
of the Community Broadcasting Foundation. Find out more at.
S2 (31:12):
Lizzie, I think I got scammed on this TV deal.
S4 (31:16):
Yeah, I think you may have.
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